2008 pls
#politics
fast flame
brisk cradle
You have a recession and Bush is toast.
fast flame
id rather go back to 2006 than be in 2019
brisk cradle
AND OF COURSE YOU HAD SARAH PALIN
weary obsidian
go back to 2015, get Hillary out of the race, so we never had to endure trump in first place
brisk cradle
McCain could've won or made it close if Palin wasn't on the ticket.
brisk cradle
McCain sorry
cosmic badge
True, 2016 was pretty much "Democrats have this in the bag if they run anyone but Hillary"
fast flame
my dad actually switched parties because of her
weary obsidian
i would of been totally ok with mccain as president for 2016 even. least he was one of the few good republicans
cosmic badge
But Democrats being experts at shooting themselves in the foot, did what they do best.
fast flame
he was a rep until 2008 when palin was picked for vp
brisk cradle
@weary obsidian Let's get out the Martin O'Malley hype train
Oh, sorry, I think you wanted me to say "Bernie Sanders dank meme stash"
fast flame
i really dont think bernie would have been any better in 2016 or 2020 but i dont wanna start that fight
cosmic badge
Bernie is my guy but seeing the results now I'm a bit skeptical of his chances of winning now π
brisk cradle
I'm a Bernie guy too but I think he would probably lose this year too. That being said he'll win Vermont easily π
cosmic badge
Is Biden's win looking a lot like Obama's? I see he's picking up places won in 2012 but lost in 2016
brisk cradle
Not quite, remember that Biden lost Florida and Ohio which Obama won in 2012.
fast flame
biden would have won florida if not for the unchecked, rampant misinformation
since obama won it, it should have theoretically been a walk in park for him
brisk cradle
He's going to partially make it up by winning Arizona and maybe winning Georgia.
cosmic badge
GA would be a huge pick up for Democrats
brisk cradle
We'll see about Georgia.
faint radish
lol what does "most educated" mean?
Who was it that said some ideas are so stupid only an intellectual can believe in it?
fast flame
yeah at this point if biden gets GA he wins
cosmic badge
Republicans will need to start reflecting hard if they lose GA π
brisk cradle
Democrats and Republicans will need to reflect hard.
cosmic badge
That too
fast flame
but GA is one of the craziest fucking places ever. remember they just a elected a self proclaimed QAnon believer
brisk cradle
Democrats need to fix their Latinx problem as it will otherwise be the nucleus of a future major Republican voter bloc.
cosmic badge
Although Republicans will probably just determine that it needs to be further gerrymandered π
And voter suppression
Fiddle with polling hours in certain counties etc
Suppress the black vote
brisk cradle
Republicans need to fix the suburban revolt but I think they'll take a wait and see approach, they hope the suburbs will revolt against Biden.
fast flame
bidens closing the gap in ga rapidly :D
brisk cradle
Remember that Biden was heavily targeting apathetic Trump voters.
Georgia going blue is a major coup for the Democrats and it does kind of take the sting off losing Florida.
fast flame
even though a lot of them still went red, the fact that so many reliably red states either went blue or got really close is remarkable. TX, AZ, GA, FL, OH etc
cosmic badge
Yeah, they are now purple states π
oak cloak
I think latinx voters are lately due to biden's history. I saw lots of people talking about how he passed laws 20 years ago which negatively affected them
weary obsidian
NC @fast flame
cosmic badge
Democrats have a real shot at taking GA and FL in future elections
brisk cradle
I think the Latinx problem is deeper than Biden
weary obsidian
if nc turns blue ill be so happy, and if we knock out Tillis too for the full win, thatll be epic
oak cloak
Lots of people somehow used that to create false equivalencies and diminish has bad trump is
brisk cradle
Trump made a lot of noise on criminal justice but his actions have been mixed. He is trying to tack to the "law and order" hardliners but also throw a bone to the reform-minded people.
weary obsidian
even if R's keep senate, if trump is gone, hopefully many of them will return to normality and no longer have to be loyal to trump
cosmic badge
Might be talking about the 1994 crime bill Biden sponsored, which is seen by many as the defining piece of criminal justice reform which led to the mass incarceration problem in the US.
brisk cradle
@weary obsidian You are being too optimistic.
fast flame
itll either make them go back to hole where they came from or make them bolder
brisk cradle
If anything this election shows Trumpism has staying power. Expect it to continue to rear its ugly head.
oak cloak
Yes, but the 1994 bill had massive cross-party support and large support among black and latinx voters, it wasn't until later that it turned out shit and the majority of people realized the mistake
So, it's complicated
weary obsidian
@brisk cradle well without that, there is no healing this divide
but yeah im not holding my breath, i think were too far broken
brisk cradle
If you want the socialist perspective, irregardless of who wins, America is officially a failed state.
weary obsidian
how do you get a trump voter to completely change their outlook and see how trump was bad in order to heal?
brisk cradle
No.
oak cloak
No
fast flame
show them what real governance looks like
oak cloak
Never is
brisk cradle
Democrats are keeping control.
lethal rose
Trump voters are a lost cause Aikar, trying to convert them would need serious therapy.
brisk cradle
Republicans made a few gains though, that's not nothing.
cosmic badge
The moment we cornered ourselves into two parties I say we failed. You can't shove everyone's political beliefs into 2 political parties.
We need coalitions
fast flame
I have hope that as this massive amount of gen z dems age into voting, we'll see stronger support
brisk cradle
If you're a liberal, then you're praying Biden wins but should be under no illusion this divide can heal.
If you're a conservative, then the Demon-Crats stole the election again and Trump was the real winner
Not. All. Votes. Have. Been. Counted.
oak cloak
Well your math is wrong then
brisk cradle
Going off this: https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2020/11/03/us/elections/results-house.html
Republicans have gained 5 seats.
oak cloak
Well that's rather naive
No
It is not likely for reps to win the house in any scenario, no
fast flame
Not. All. Votes. Have. Been. Counted.
cosmic badge
Who's people?
brisk cradle
You are seeing a red mirage here.
oak cloak
You have regularly proven you don't understand how this election works so what you think isn't very important
cosmic badge
Depends which district
Just because they are in red states doesn't mean they are likely red districts
fast flame
most places arent even close to finished counting mail ins and absentee ballots. still lots left to count.
oak cloak
I'm not sure what the future holds for america, because trumpism has taken hold and it's not going anywhere. It justifies hate and blind nationalism and violence against those you hate. This won't go away even if Dems win the presidency and Senate as well. It's a dark outlook in general
wise pollen
cosmic badge
nice try haha
though he still has a chance maybe
although at this point very unlikely
fast flame
fuck you lol
cosmic badge
the date is at the bottom hehe
lethal rose
Trump is such a meme, would be nice to see how he breaks stuff for 4 more years
cosmic badge
As amusing as that might be for some people, real lives are being affected by his presidency.
He has to go
lethal rose
Why did you guys elect such a fool?
oak cloak
Is that why all of Trump's businesses constantly fail and he's in so much debt?
You're hopeless
fast flame
i dont think you realize how many businesses hes run into the ground
opaque prairie
we are ignoring the fact that as president he shouldnt have any businesses in the first place
oak cloak
What do you even stand for
opaque prairie
we've just gone so far downhill we managed to forget about all that shit
oak cloak
If you voted for Trump, what about him in any way appeals to you
cosmic badge
yes, people in power can supervise their own conflicts of interest
totally makes sense
lethal rose
You guys should submit to our regime
opaque prairie
i mean with how much people threw a fit over carters peanut farm, sure doesnt seem like they should
fast flame
http://labor411.org/411-blog/here-are-all-of-trump-s-bankruptcies-and-failed-businesses this is by no means a scientific article but here are all of his business failings.
lethal rose
my #1 reason for trump is that he is unfiltered and not a typical politician
@autumn lotus what
cosmic badge
Trump's approach to business is throwing shit at a wall and seeing what sticks, I guess. We'll never really know how wealthy (or lack of) he actually is.
lethal rose
You voted for him again?
oak cloak
Holy shit what a terrible argument for Trump. He's completely unable to do his job and is completely dishonest, he constantly lies. How is that in any way anything you would ever want in a politician
opaque prairie
i mean we know trump is an obscene amount of debt
lethal rose
Just like the US
opaque prairie
which is something that shouldnt be allowed govt officals
oak cloak
That's just not true even remotely
hallow shoal
that's like saying the US govt shouldn't be allowed to be in debt...
oak cloak
That's not how that works
opaque prairie
i mean no one lends to him except russian oligarchs and the banks they back
oak cloak
Your just-world mindset makes you incredibly naive
fast flame
not to mention his foundation which has been reported on several accounts to partake in self dealings and tax evasion
no we wouldnt
he hasnt realeased his returns
oak cloak
That's absolutely not true, and yet we do know about it
lethal rose
So this guy is a trump supporter?
fast flame
yes
hallow shoal
you haven't gathered that by now?
oak cloak
You act like the IRS has finished their audit
cosmic badge
Actually it's possible there's a whole bunch of his criminal activity sealed in courts that we don't know about yet.
opaque prairie
you also act like republicans havent completely neutered the IRS in the past 40 years
opal moat
I don't understand why you could vote for someone who is openly racist, sexist, transphobic, literally put children in camps and doesn't pay taxes just because he is "unfiltered", for me that means you are probably a white cis male who doesn't care about people and generally have no issues with minorities in your country having a bad time
cosmic badge
A sitting US president can't be brought to justice outside of a Senate conviction. The president is above the law.
opal moat
like, how could you do this morally
lethal rose
What does his "cis gender" have to do with anything?
oak cloak
@lethal rose trans people are in a lot of danger with trump in power
lethal rose
I see
wise pollen
i hope trump wins i have a bet he will
fresh summit
lethal rose
Really?
cosmic badge
It's still possible, for sure.
fresh summit
he just needs michigan
hallow shoal
Can't lose that money, @wise pollen
fresh summit
hopefully
wise pollen
oak cloak
Based on what we do know about about trump's taxes it's extremely likely he's committed tax fraud in a lot of different ways
opal moat
@lethal rose trans people are in a lot of danger with trump in power
allowing doctors to refuse to treat trans patients, allowing "trans panic", banning trans people from the military, literally not allowing people to go to toilets, the list goes on
cosmic badge
I doubt he'll see federal charges even if he did
Like someone mentioned it'll probably be a graceful transition with a deal between Biden and Trump
oak cloak
But the IRS audit is ongoing because that shit takes years
hallow shoal
And we can assume the same for any other businessperson that doesn't release their returns either
cosmic badge
No federal investigations
lethal rose
I mean, shouldn't "refusing to treat patients" be taken up with the medical boards?
tough cedar
in the same title, sidesteps qanon question lol
oak cloak
like a dozen times
opal moat
idk why dems say stuff so easy to disprove
@autumn lotus you didn't answer to the other things i wrote
lethal rose
Or did he make some weird laws
oak cloak
Please show is the other 11 times
full trellis
is Trump a she?
brisk cradle
trump is hardly racist
[citation needed]
cosmic badge
I don't think the motivation to draw blood is there for most people. Most people just want him out of office.
fresh summit
so is no one gonna talk about how biden acts around women
tough cedar
at what point would you not support trump @autumn lotus
opaque prairie
we can sure cable
fresh summit
opaque prairie
im not happy about it
opal moat
I mean, shouldn't "refusing to treat patients" be taken up with the medical boards?
@lethal rose if it's allowed by law medical boards don't matter
hallow shoal
@fresh summit or children
opal moat
I don't understand why you could vote for someone who is openly racist, sexist, transphobic, literally put children in camps and doesn't pay taxes just because he is "unfiltered", for me that means you are probably a white cis male who doesn't care about people and generally have no issues with minorities in your country having a bad time
@opal moat
opaque prairie
but like, damn its better than a literal white supremacist
lethal rose
So he made some law?
cosmic badge
the bar is pretty low lol
lethal rose
I would think the medical boards ethics council would be all over that.
opaque prairie
i mean... hes technically done all of those thing?
cosmic badge
To be fair "packing" the Supreme Court is legal.
Just like obstructing Democratic justices was also legal.
foggy fern
Trump and his dad got in trouble for not letting black people in their condos
cosmic badge
The "traditional" number is just a number
It's more about restoring balance to the courts
elder portal
"pandering to China" - have you been watching the same president I have?
cosmic badge
Okay, but it's no more worse than what Republicans did with obstructing Garland and putting in their guys
elder portal
because he's done that a lot
oak cloak
There is no traditional number
cosmic badge
If you think packing the courts is disgusting, then you should be disgusted by Mitch McConnell for obstructing.
elder portal
^
opal moat
I don't understand why you could vote for someone who is openly racist, sexist, transphobic, literally put children in camps and doesn't pay taxes just because he is "unfiltered", for me that means you are probably a white cis male who doesn't care about people and generally have no issues with minorities in your country having a bad time
@autumn lotus ^
tough cedar
life time appointment btw
cosmic badge
But it is fair.
tough cedar
wait 50 years xd
cosmic badge
It's entirely legal to "pack" the courts by changing the number of seats.
Just like it was entirely legal for Mitch McConnell to obstruct Garland.
tough cedar
who is using the cages?
cosmic badge
Sounds fair to me.
opaque prairie
i dont care who makes guns, i care how people use them
oak cloak
Trump signed the order @autumn lotus
opaque prairie
same argument with the cages
foggy fern
Here is Trump wishing we'd murdered 5 innocent teens/men of color before they got a chance to prove they were innocent
elder portal
i think everyone dislikes the immigration thing which is why we need the wall
u focking wot m8
no?
nnnno.
oak cloak
Trump hasn't been pandering to china, he's been directly helping china constantly
opal moat
i think everyone dislikes the immigration thing which is why we need the wall
@autumn lotus and that is a valid reason to put people in the 21th century version of concentration camps, denying them basic human rights?
Yeah you're lost
tough cedar
im not gonna talk anymore so to not pile on lol
opal moat
I think you have been brainwashed too much
opaque prairie
i mean the issue is basket
I Donβt Know How To Explain To You That You Should Care About Other People
cosmic badge
Get ready for the counter argument "but Obama did it first!"
lusty ibex
byteflux 
foggy fern
Maybe we should do what these people suggested to handle our issues with Mexico https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YsmgPp_nlok
lusty ibex
what is up in this powwow
opal moat
like the right for free movement
lusty ibex
what am i missing out on
opal moat
or the right to see medical personal
elder portal
basket's being a brainwashed idiot
opal moat
or the right to fucking eat
elder portal
that's about it Michael
opal moat
no they can't
lethal rose
barty, some people are without empathy so he might really be lacking this perspective.
oak cloak
they can probably
elder portal
scroll up
plush crypt
basket just solved slavery
oak cloak
cages
cosmic badge
I feel for immigration from the south, people fleeing a shitty situation that American is pretty much directly responsible for creating in the last 30-40 years.
fresh summit
imagine bringing over your 8 year old child illegally
plush crypt
being human trafficked? just leave!
fast flame
they can probably leave the cages whenever they want if they just go back home
Holy shit dude how hard is it to care about what happens to people.
elder portal
if they just go back home
@autumn lotus that's not possible for many. That's why they're here in the first place.
opal moat
imagine bringing over your 8 year old child illegally
@fresh summit that's what people do when they are being politically opressed in their country
plush crypt
@lusty ibex sorry :(
lusty ibex
:(((
opal moat
It's called asylum
lusty ibex
opal moat
and again, basic human right
fresh summit
is that the responsibility of the US?
opal moat
Yes
cosmic badge
America is pretty strongly responsible for the state of Mexico and the conditions that lead to mass illegal immigration.
We're the reason Mexico is a violent country.
oak cloak
The responsibility of the US is definitely to not separate children from their parents
hallow shoal
I can't stand behind letting people walk in all willy nilly without being accounted for, just like letting someone walk into your home and sleep in your bed cause they feel like it without permission.
opal moat
anyways you need to verify that the childrens parents are actually their parents and not just being used for trafficking
@autumn lotus yes but you can do that without having people in cages and refusing them food and healthcare
oak cloak
Also don't send 5 year old kids to court without a lawyer (or at all but yeah)
opal moat
Y'all need to read and understand the Universal Declaration of Human Rights
elder portal
entirely flopped in the issue of cages, even
opal moat
because I don't think some of you do
near glen
In Germany everybody below 14 can't be sued
cosmic badge
Sir the bars must be at least 2 inches thick to be called a cage, those are fenced boxes!
opaque prairie
what do you mean "cages" you were literally arguing 30 seconds ago that obama made them
do think immigrants do not deserve human right
elder portal
it's too early for this kind of unempathetic, racist brainwashing
oak cloak
You have been lied to. As with everything, Trump lies.
elder portal
I need more coffee for it
oak cloak
Put back in Mexico
opal moat
https://www.un.org/en/universal-declaration-human-rights/index.html
there you go, read up on some basic rights every human has by law
oak cloak
There's the racism
elder portal
Asylum
plush crypt
now i'm no fan of censorship, but this opinion is a good argument for it
hallow shoal
That's by no means racist
opal moat
Article 14.
(1) Everyone has the right to seek and to enjoy in other countries asylum from persecution.
elder portal
we have an entire fucking continent to the south of Mexico
hallow shoal
just stating their own opinion on how someone should be allowed to legally enter the country
oak cloak
"go back to Mexico" has been racial coding for decades
elder portal
a lot of immigrants and asylum seekers are from central america, not Mexico
near glen
Seeking asylum is legal
near glen
Blocking ppl from seeking asylum is illegal
elder portal
as it also should be
opaque prairie
i wouldnt consider economic hardship reason enough
...what?
near glen
I mean
oak cloak
Yup
near glen
It's the same frontex does in the EU
opal moat
Equally Illegal
near glen
(frontex is the EU border patrol I guess incase you guys don't know)
opaque prairie
youre telling me, if i am not getting paid well in some country, i shouldnt be allowed to move to another country with the hopes i can live a better life
elder portal
I wasn't aware
near glen
Nobody knows about frontex, it's super Intransparent
hallow shoal
I don't think the argument here is stating you shouldn't be allowed to move to another country
near glen
We actually want ppl coming here to do jobs we don't want to do, lol
opal moat
@near glen check fragdenstaat, they are sueing them for basically everything
hallow shoal
it's on the basis of legality
near glen
I know, I allow arne on Twitter auroroa ^^
elder portal
in cased you missed it, there's a John Oliver segment on asylum and about how Trump's adminstration has been incredibly efficient in gutting it: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xtdU5RPDZqI
full trellis
I personally believe that all third world country (and most developing country) residents to migrate to the USA and to the EU. They have basic human rights. They should get a better life right now.
opal moat
If you are seeking asylum because of economic reason, you still seek asylum. EVERY single asylum request has to be checked. If they are invalid, then they will be send back. But this needs to be checked first
cosmic badge
Right, it's not illegal to just show up at the border and seek asylum. Your case has to be revewied.
elder portal
problem is many are sent back home to wait, which is exactly what you don't want to do
opal moat
they should not be allowed entry while their case is under review
@autumn lotus that is against the human rights.
elder portal
"oh, the Mexican cartel is after you? Go back home, we'll call you in a few months"
copper flower
Its kinda sad how some Americans, who are nearly all descendants of immigrants, are against immigration
near glen
I mean, seeking asylum solely because of economy stuff is meh, most of those cases get denied anyways
cosmic badge
Yeah agreed, they should be afforded accommodations while their asylum is being processed.
tough cedar
i mean it's always been like that malf
elder portal
and we wonder why asylum seekers mysteriously vanish from their court dates
copper flower
like, your great grandparents were in the same situation, wtf
near glen
But most mexicans feel from the crime
faint radish
im against illegal immigration. got no problem with legal immigration
lethal rose
^^
near glen
Which is a very valid reason to seek asylum
tough cedar
even during the 1900s they didn't like other european immigrants
lethal rose
Not legal immigration
faint radish
well crossing the border illegally is illegal immigration
cosmic badge
And again, the prevalence of the cartels in Mexico is something America is almost directly responsible for.
full trellis
your problem is you don't consider them human equals
@small root I know, right? I hate the concept of citizenship. Who decides whether I should be able to vote during the US elections? Also, jobs that require citizenship are so racist.
near glen
As we are just discussing machine, your administration made it extremely hard to seek asylum
elder portal
lol, "build a beautiful resort for them" - history says no on many ccounts
faint radish
if you come into the US without permission, thats illegal
lethal rose
Crossing the border and deciding you are now american without telling america i guess.
near glen
So there is no real way for legal immigration
elder portal
don't want them dirty Mexicans in your "beautiful resort"
copper flower
People wouldn't cross the border illegally if there was a decent, humane and fast way to immigrate
cosmic badge
Improper entry is illegal yeah, but asylum isn't improper entry.
faint radish
lol, then change the laws. breaking a law because its bad, is still breaking a law
elder portal
@autumn lotus asylum seekers are killed because we send them back home. Many of them. All the time.
elder portal
@autumn lotus many also don't show up because they're never told where or when
opal moat
lol, then change the laws. breaking a law because its bad, is still breaking a law
@faint radish well they have the choice between breaking a law to save themself and their family or get killed at home from a criminal party/politics/religion they are fleeing from
faint radish
but if more people vote against you, then thats the ball game
elder portal
@autumn lotus all of that was intentionally created by the Trump administration, to ensure as many as possible stay out
copper flower
Im fine with sending back immigrants if there was a decent immigration law (same applies to the EU here). But currently, immigration according to law is very hard and takes a very long time
faint radish
it really doesn't matter why a law is broken. its still a law. and if you want it changed, vote accordingly
near glen
If your law violates human rights it does matter
Laws are not untouchable
They can be contested
faint radish
yeah, absolutely. so file a lawsuit challenging it
cosmic badge
Civil disobedience is a crucial part to a compassionate society.
copper flower
People leaving North Korea are also breaking their law.
Laws are not untouchable and not neccesarily right
elder portal
@autumn lotus these asylum seekers don't just "not show up" simply because they're trying to smuggle drugs and think they'll get ousted or something. That's not what happens in many, many cases. So, so, so many of them are killed or turned away or don't have a date or time or even location given to them and thus miss their hearings
faint radish
sure, but south korea isn't compelled to return them
elder portal
the point of view that "everyone is trying to smuggle drugs/guns/cartel into the US" is deeply flawed
cosmic badge
CIvil disobedience has been the driver of many legislative changes in the past, for example. to name one pretty prominent example, Rosa Parks.
elder portal
the overwhelming majory are innocent
cosmic badge
Some times breaking the law is necessary.
copper flower
otherwise its just anarchy
I like anarchy
faint radish
yep civil disobedience is an excellent tool. but the gov is still free to enforce the laws while they exist
elder portal
very inconvenient
vital pawn
I'm all for legal imigrations and helping them. Unfortunately all the cases I know from my nearby environment, show them in very negative light.
Most families were acclimating here while everything was paid for them. As soon as they got asked to do some basic work (help cook / help at school etc), they vanish overnight.
faint radish
if you are challenging a law, you don't go to an immigration judge...
foggy fern
Oh cool, prop 17 passed in California
elder portal
@vital pawn that's due to a deeper systemic issue in our country, and not entirely on them. But I agree, that needs to not happen.
cosmic badge
Oh I was meaning just the process for immigrants
elder portal
@autumn lotus "just change the laws"
OH, FUCK. WHY DIDN'T I THINK OF THAT. Thank you SO MUCH for saving so many wasted votes!
it's so obvious!
faint radish
and you can hold that opinion forever. but apparently not enough people agree with you
elder portal
that was sarcasm
if you couldn't tell
Trump lost the popular vote when he was elected, yes
faint radish
saying clinton won the popular vote is like saying my team won the baseball game because we hit the ball more
elder portal
the electoral college existing is how he was elected
faint radish
the US doesn't count elections by popular vote
but again, totally free to change it
copper flower
imo its not a democracy if the candidate with less votes wins. The US is the only "democracy" that does that, and its disgusting
faint radish
yeah, and again, there are ways to change that Malfrador
brisk cradle
Ask your state representative to support the NPVIC.
copper flower
I don't see ways of changing that if the systems heavily favors parties who do not like to change it
elder portal
we're attempting to pass laws that do things like remove the electoral college. It's slow-going, but it's going
cosmic badge
We're a real democratic republic, unlike North Korea π
vital pawn
@vital pawn that's due to a deeper systemic issue in our country, and not entirely on them. But I agree, that needs to not happen.
@elder portal I don't really see bigger issue in our country law for that behavior.
One muslim family got house from catholic priest, people bought them food etc. Kids were driven over hour each weekend to learn local language, by private people. After a few months they got asked to help in school - woman to cook, the man to be janitor or something. Next day they were gone.
near glen
we are a democratic republic not a democracy idk why dems always think different
@autumn lotus germany is a democratic republic and yet our election system actually works, lol
faint radish
@autumn lotus was talking about EC
elder portal
I can't wait until skipping the electoral college becomes a thing
faint radish
I think our election system works (well enough at least), and so do enough people to keep it that way. Go through the process to change the system
near glen
Yes, parties not talking to each other is basically unheard of here
brisk cradle
The US has some pseudo-coalitions
copper flower
But even with only two parties, our system in Germany would still mean that the party with the most votes wins
elder portal
@vital pawn do you genuinely think those people would prefer to be on the run in an unknown country?
cosmic badge
When you try to squeeze every possible political opinion into 2 major parties, you end up with a lot of polarization
near glen
If you try to block smth here, you get the shit off the public
brisk cradle
Democrats are mostly a coalition of center-right to center-left (in US parlance, left-wing to center). Republicans are right-wing to far-right.
cosmic badge
No way in hell Democrats and Republicans legislate away their political stranglehold.
They are on the same team when it comes to that.
faint radish
if enough people want it, the parties will have to support it. they don't want to lose their power and if enough people want it, they will abandon the parties
copper flower
for me, all US parties are center to far-right. US left is not European left
elder portal
@vital pawn the fact that it happened is bad, but I can't imagine anyone arguing that that family just really loves out in an unknown country unable to make a living
cosmic badge
Such a political restructuring would mean they'd be losing power either way
brisk cradle
US left is more like the European social democracy
copper flower
yeah
faint radish
and people will leave the parties entierly if they want it enough
so the D and R parties would rather have some power, than none
cosmic badge
Right now they can have all the power
elder portal
@vital pawn the issue is that they were going to be tossed out anyway, so they too the best chance they had at survival and ran. That's not a good way to go for the U.S.
vital pawn
@vital pawn the fact that it happened is bad, but I can't imagine anyone arguing that that family just really loves out in an unknown country unable to make a living
@elder portal AFAIK they were still getting money from country for being immigrants.
faint radish
and im saying if you convince enough people to change the system, they'll have to go along with it.
copper flower
Did ppl actually vote for kayne?
a few, yes
vital pawn
AFAIK we have quite decent laws for immigration. Not the best, but decent.
faint radish
didnt the cages actually start under obama?
brisk cradle
The US never had a strong labor movement nor did they have a particularly strong communist voting bloc, which is why US socialism is mostly social democracy or democratic socialism.
copper flower
They are as good or as bad as other countries. EU immigrations laws are also shit
tough cedar
who is using the cages right now :>
near glen
Our left is hard core ^^
tough cedar
not obama
foggy fern
iirc that was meant as a temporary measure under Obama due to a surge of unaccompanied minors
elder portal
@vital pawn it depends on their situation, but I doubt it's as glamorous as it's made out to be. Last time I checked, getting three hots and a cot still isn't the peak of excellence. I know many homeless crammed into a small area, having their things constantly stolen and women raped.. It's not a fantastic way to live. You think someone would choose that life if they had a better alternative?
brisk cradle
And even American democratic socialism appears more like social democracy, our Overton window is that far to the right.
foggy fern
They just didn't have the pipeline to get them into proper facilities in the numbers they showed up so they put up some temp thing
weary obsidian
Did ppl actually vote for kayne?
@near glen he posted on twitter a video of him voting for himself and noone else
cosmic badge
Yeah the so-called democratic socialists of America are just social democrats by European standards.
foggy fern
But of course nothing is more permanent than a temporary solution
copper flower
Yeah the so-called democratic socialists of America are just social democrats by European standards.
but muh, America best country, so Europe is clearly wrong
opaque prairie
i don't even know why i try to make people open their eyes or convince them anything, no one ever changes their opinions these days
because you care about people barty. happens to me too. you want other people to agree with you cause you care about others opinions and the way their choices affect others
blazing junco
america is very fucking divided
cosmic badge
I think Democrats should move away from using the word socialist
Or self identifying with that in any way
brisk cradle
This why the left hates Joe Biden. He's not an actual social democrat, he is more like a neoliberal who moved to the left somewhat to pacify bummed-out progressives.
faint radish
tell your guy Bernie that Byteflux
cosmic badge
Although I'm not as allergic to the idea as your average voter, it's a very muddied term now
blazing junco
It's crazy to see states going toe-to-toe
cosmic badge
Is Bernie still a Democrat? He's normally independent, I know he registered for the campaign but I don't really consider him a Democrat π
tough cedar
the thing is hes not outwardly racist
brisk cradle
He still caucuses with Democrats, so he is a Democrat.
tough cedar
and yes he's called it out before
foggy fern
Unions were bigger and had more power
tough cedar
but then he dog whistles
so you can plausibly deny his racism while being able to point to the few times he's denounced it
copper flower
I mean, he called all African countries "shitholes", lol
brisk cradle
Joe Biden represents the old days. Trump represents a virulent strain of ultranationalism that was always latent in the GOP until he activated it, intentionally.
tough cedar
he's not a good man and america can do better
copper flower
Saying that nations are shitholes is pretty racist imo, and atleast not how a word leader should behave
faint radish
k, well it wasn't all african countries
tough cedar
copper flower
Several African countries said it was racist, so yeah
tough cedar
Β―_(γ)_/Β―
tough cedar
on par with abraham lincoln of course
foggy fern
Twitter
weary obsidian
is that the uber/lyft prop? I read that prop failed
or heard i guess since it was on radio lol
foggy fern
weary obsidian
oh wait, it was inverted
cosmic badge
yeah it was a response to the california law that was forcing them to make drivers employees
Uber/Lyft was threatening to pull out
weary obsidian
was their some tack on to the prop ?
im in favor of them being ind contractors, because they fucking fit the classification, and from what I read, most drivers didnt want to be classifiedemployees
cosmic badge
California voters basically rejected the legislature and told them to screw off
Ensuring Uber and Lyft continue to operate as they have
weary obsidian
no one wanted to be employees but the government so they could get their hands in it more
foggy fern
They also blocked the ability for them to unionize
weary obsidian
the prop did, or t he previous law and the prop didnt resolve it?
but still, contractors is iffy on unions anyways.
the whole point of being a contractor is you define what work you take, you do the work in the way you want to do it.
uber/lyft fits that pretty well, they are contractors
foggy fern
Except if you refuse to take the work they offer you don't get to take offers any more
weary obsidian
what reasoning does a place stop giving updates for rest of day?
@foggy fern what do you mean? declining rides is pretty standard part of the system
foggy fern
Turning down rides shouldn't be a reason to have your driver score lowered or be banned from the app
If you do it often they ban you, or at least did at the time this was going through the courts in Cali
opal moat
what reasoning does a place stop giving updates for rest of day?
@weary obsidian in normal countries the reason for that usually is max. hours you are allowed to work a day
weary obsidian
asssuming they didnt wake up at like 4am to resume, its still morning there?
doubt they made people do all nighters
foggy fern
Technically I suppose they could wait like 10 days and only start counting then
fast flame
yeah they said noon tomorrow will be when new results come out. we will likely be able to infer who the winner will be before then but we wont have concrete numbers for a while.
foggy fern
So there really doesn't have to be any reasoning for why they didn't work 24 straight or took a day off if they did
opal moat
still have to sleep
foggy fern
btw when did Uber stop banning people driving for Lyft?
When they got smacked down in CA?
cosmic badge
they did that? that's pretty scummy π
I switched to Lyft a long time ago because it had in-app tipping, Uber didn't have it back then and I like to tip drivers
foggy fern
I don't know if there was ever proof, just seemed like if you used both your account was more likely to get banned for some other reason
cosmic badge
Almost all of the drivers I meet are doing both Uber and Lyft
foggy fern
Same
But if you can turn down any ride without penalty and drive for multiple apps then Uber doesn't really have a moat against competitors
Someone else can run a competitor assuming they have the marketing budget and don't have to solve the chicken and egg problem because it doesn't hurt drivers to idle accepting drives on their network while still driving for Uber
weary obsidian
yeah non compete stuff like that would be a violation of independent contractor status
foggy fern
At least up until California started smacking them around and they were trying to prove their workers aren't employees they sure did like treating them like employees
cosmic badge
Not surprised, pretty sure they are operating at a loss atm
foggy fern
Sure, because without robot cars or lock-in and market dominance as soon as they try to charge rates that put them in the black someone can swoop in and take all their users
weary obsidian
man youd have to have some major fuck up to take a system like uber/lyft and lose money on it
its like fucking free money at the baseline
foggy fern
They've lost billions upon billions
weary obsidian
HOW?!
brisk cradle
The left take on this is so funny and so true https://twitter.com/NathanJRobinson/status/1324036734364037120/photo/1
weary obsidian
you run servers, the drivers provide their own cars, and do all the work, while you just collect the fees
mystic ermine
I was actually reading on something like that yesterday, apparently they basically outlawed hiring freelancers
foggy fern
Uber is a transfer of wealth from venture capitalists to people looking for a cab in the hope that they eventually lose the drivers or dominate enough to double their prices
weary obsidian
and headcount shouldnt be massive either
foggy fern
They're doing things somewhat inefficiently on the backend, blowing money on R&D on self driving cars, marketing, and paying their drivers directly to get new cities up and running
Oh and way too much money for the VPs and C-suite, of course
cosmic badge
They're saying 2021 will probably be their first profitable year, maybe.
tough cedar
Reid Epstein, in Madison, Wis. 8m ago
There are only about 300 votes left to count in Wisconsin, officials say. Theyβre in the town of Willow in Richland County. Biden leads by more than 20,000 votes. ```feel sorry for that persons last name
foggy fern
Level 5 self driving cars probably require real hard AI
brisk cradle
thing is that they need to invest in self-driving cards, and in that case they have no need to pay drivers
cosmic badge
Welp, guess WI is called then
brisk cradle
so it is pure profit
fast flame
feel sorry for that persons last name
@weary obsidian that was my first thought too but i think it's actually kinda common
mystic ermine
The biggest thing for self driving cars is gonna be legislation
weary obsidian
that name will be at least for a decade tainted as a pedophile
foggy fern
hard AI as in Cortana (from the games) or HAL or think of another AI singularity movie
cosmic badge
The only self-driving car I'm gonna trust in teh near future are the kind that are attached to rails π
brisk cradle
I think it's safe to call Wisconsin for Biden. This is very good news if you're in the Biden camp. It means he can win Michigan and Pennsylvania.
cosmic badge
I think I'm in the "Not Trump" camp which I guess puts me in the Biden camp π
fast flame
it is encouraging
weary obsidian
same byte lol
brisk cradle
And with that, Biden would win the presidency.
weary obsidian
wearing my Giant Meteor 2020 T Shirt
mystic ermine
scary
cosmic badge
lol
fast flame
yeah the "Not Trump" camp is biden adjacent
brisk cradle
Michigan has a Biden lead right now. Trump leads in PA but there are a lot of mail ballots left to count there.
cosmic badge
I think Biden wins PA
brisk cradle
Then it comes down to Georgia.
But if Biden wins Pennsylvania then he's won the presidency.
fast flame
trump camp is calling a recount in wisconsin which isnt surprising
cosmic badge
Yep, totally reasonable
brisk cradle
Not sure if Trump can turn around Biden's lead in Wisconsin with a recount.
cosmic badge
lol
weary obsidian
300k estimated votes remaining with a bias towards Biden in NC, 77k difference to make up for
cosmic badge
man imagine if both GA and NC went Biden
brisk cradle
Hmm, if Biden can win by a squeaker in NC that's icing on top of the cake.
cosmic badge
big kick in the balls to Republicans
fast flame
that would be so nice but i dont know if itll happen
brisk cradle
In that case we're looking at a 2008-style victory. Put Florida, Ohio, Indiana, and ME-02 in the Republican column then flip Georgia and Arizona to Democrats.
fast flame
wisconsin recount could potentially cost trump 3 mil which is cool
brisk cradle
Because an Arizona victory for Biden seems assured at this point
weary obsidian
most the decent remaining ones for trump are small areas like 5k votes
brisk cradle
Arizona combined with Georgia's EVs almost make up a Florida.
fast flame
its safe to assume that at least 60% of remaining votes in most areas will go blue
just based on previous results with mail ins and absentee ballots
cosmic badge
What if Biden takes NV, WI, MI, GA, NC and PA? π
fast flame
that would be so nice
brisk cradle
It will be a bittersweet night for Democrats.
Winning Georgia especially is the biggest prize for the Democrats.
cosmic badge
With most already reported I feel GA and NC will end up being called for recount
Close enough to recount, that is
fast flame
it's possible that trump doesnt have enough funds to do several recounts. from what i understand, theyre running low.
brisk cradle
GA has 250k ballots left to count. Most of that will likely be in Atlanta, so Biden has a shot of winning Georgia still.
cosmic badge
I actually wasn't aware campaigns pay for the recounts, I just know that if it's within a percentage point or so difference, it qualifies for recount
brisk cradle
The GA SOS says counting should be complete tonight
brisk cradle
Trump has a 86k vote lead in GA, and since the remaining ballots will likely favor Democrats, I think Biden MAY be on track to win Georgia.
fast flame
I actually wasn't aware campaigns pay for the recounts, I just know that if it's within a percentage point or so difference, it qualifies for recount
@cosmic badge there is a threshold for an automatic recount, but it's like a quarter of a percent margin in a lot of places. otherwise, it's requested and costs the campaigns.
brisk cradle
He will likely do so with a thin margin but he's on track to do it.
fast flame
most of the recounts that will happen will likely be requested.
cosmic badge
Makes sense
Still you'd think he has plenty of campaign funds π
What has he been doing lol
brisk cradle
Adelson can advance the $3 million, don't worry.
He rescued the Trump campaign with a last-minute infusion of $75 million to an associated super PAC
fast flame
well it's hard to know exactly how much he has left but experts who study this stuff say that the way that hes been cutting back on primetime tv ads suggest they are having to ration themselves
also, more than often, the campaign with the most money in the last 2 weeks wins. this has been the case in 2016, 2012, and i think 08.
near glen
its amazing that so much more ppl voted
2016 was 66m vs 63m, we already at 70m vs 66.5m
fast flame
yeah it's frustrating
opal moat
fast flame
i dont know how people still see lindsay graham as a legitimate legislator
fast flame
google translate cmd v
near glen
donald trump claims the election victory for himself
Why should he of all things start sticking to facts with the election result?
(its a german satire news show)
fast flame
omegalul
near glen
their feed is full of stuff like this
upper steppe
Honestly, I'm surprised Biden is doing so well. He's a literal meme lmao. His entire campaign is "I'm not Trump" ROFL
opal moat
well
near glen
another quote from that feed
elder portal
It's a damned good campaign then
opal moat
thats a valid point tho
near glen
"Trump wants to stop the postal ballot counting.
Exactly what only a democratically legitimized and absolutely certain election winner would do."
elder portal
"I'm not Trump" when running against Trump definitely helps
near glen
"Melania Trump went to the polls without a mask.
Anyone who has four more years with Donald in front of them doesn't care."
fast flame
yeah "I'm not Trump" is pretty good even if that was his entire campaign, which it definitely isnt.
elder portal
It isn't, no
cosmic badge
The fact that the winning strategy is to run anyone except Trump speaks more about Trump than his opponent π
tough cedar
not sure how trump is doing so well considering the dumpster fire that has been this year
weary obsidian
his voters dont care, they see him doing good
elder portal
They ran a lot of people
fast flame
it's blissful ignorance
opaque prairie
fox propaganda machine does work, and biden is like super moderate
no energy around him
fast flame
fox news plays doctored clips of trump saying competent things allowing their viewers to block out the crazy and justify it to themselves.
mystic ermine
It's almost like, people have different viewpoints
cosmic badge
I'm not a fan of centrism but I tend to agree, a moderate/centrist Democrat is what gets those states flipping.
mystic ermine
much like CNN overplays trump being a moron and are probably still peddling the whole "he won't tell white suprematists to fuck off"
tough cedar
i love centrism because neither party really represents me
i used to think it was republicans but the past 4 years have proven otherwise
can't really get behind the democrats either but they don't seem nearly as morally corrupt as the republicans right now
mystic ermine
The thing with democrats is that they'll often scream good intentions but in practice, it all falls down to the same reasons why people don't want government to be running everything
There's also fears about stuff like the minimum wage being price hiked federally
states which depend heavily on natural resources like mining, oil and gas are generally worried about what's going to happen, especially as they finally saw an uptick in jobs, etc
The problem in part is heavily that the answers only cover one sides
if the DNC phases out oil/gas production, what do the oil and gas workers do?
fast flame
but trump hears anything about fracking and pounces on it, spewing falsities about how biden is going to ban it when he hasnt said any such thing.
cosmic badge
Yeah, don't pull a Hillary and tell people you're going to put coal miners out of business lol
mystic ermine
He's said he's going to phase oil and fracking out
he outright said that fracking was not gonna be a thing under his presidency, and then flipped elsewhere
oak cloak
imagine believing that people have a right to healthcare is "too far left"
tough cedar
and trump said he was going to bring back coal and it's still fading away
mystic ermine
I mean, public healthcare sounds like a good idea, you just need to avoid becoming the NHS
near glen
which isn't hard if you create a new system now
oak cloak
yeah, there's a lot of better examples than the NHS :p
mystic ermine
The NHS is fucking amazing on the surface, but, the waiting list is sometimes crazy for stuff
cosmic badge
Yeah a public healthcare system without the middle men (insurance companies) would probably end up being cheaper than the system we have now.
Instead of paying premiums to insurance companies, our premiums would come in the form of a tax instead.
mystic ermine
And, the issue is that many other countries with public healthcare systems are in generally the same state, healthcare is generally in waiting lists
tough cedar
yea and they're deluding themselves into thinking coal is coming back
because it's not
mystic ermine
I think countries like scandanavia had it right
But, I forget what their system was, it was basically a mixture of private/public iirc
cosmic badge
Problem is telling them their jobs are going away doesn't usually play out well π
cosmic badge
Even if you incentivize/train them into alternative work, it's a tough pill to swallow
mystic ermine
part of the issue is that many of the "oil cities" are generally run down in trade otherwise from what I recall
So, oil and gas are basically their biggest economical forces, without them it's like, what do they do?
tough cedar
and you know what, the feds should really raise the min wage
i was working 40 hours a week at 9.84 and that's not enough to live on my own
mystic ermine
You know who gets the biggest benefits of a minimum wage rise?
tough cedar
and that's in texas
mystic ermine
minimum wage is not really designed to be a living wage
tough cedar
cool
mystic ermine
It's designed to be low enough to protect workers, but, that's a minimum bar
tough cedar
min wage hasn't kept up with productivity or inflation
why isn't the min wage going up 2% every year?
mystic ermine
You price out a lot of jobs by rising the minimum wage
The original bill for the minimum wage didn't define how it should rise
And so each time they wanna rise it, they have to pass a new law
upper steppe
i was working 40 hours a week at 9.84 and that's not enough to live on my own
@tough cedar ok, so let's pay you and everyone else $15/hr instead. Then for companies to afford to do that they'll have to either fire you guys, or raise the cost of living making it still impossible to survive ;)
tough cedar
nah you just raise the price of your product by like 30 cents or whatever and cover the costs
cosmic badge
The federal minimum wage probably does need to be corrected for inflation but it doesn't need to be $15/hr
mystic ermine
Yea
cosmic badge
But yeah tue current minimum is way too low
mystic ermine
They've been preaching $15
tough cedar
cause wtf working 40 hours a week and only being able to cover rent for a month?
even above min wage in texas? lol
upper steppe
If minimum wage kept up with inflation since the fed reserve became a thing we'd be at $100/hr
mystic ermine
minimum wage is not designed to be a living wage.
tough cedar
well that doesn't include food, gas, insurance or other hidden costs
mystic ermine
You have to consider the economical side-effects of increasing the minimum wage
tough cedar
so not only is it not livable, it's not sustainable
mystic ermine
Many mom and pop stores hardly make enough for sizable profits already
The only massive beneficiary of minimum price increases is companies like amazon, etc
upper steppe
Nothing could, tbh
cosmic badge
If you indexed minimum wage to inflation, it would be closer to $8 now, not $100 lol
mystic ermine
Thing with restaurants is that the profits are generally minimal and nowhere near what most people would think
cosmic badge
Though I think $10 is pretty reasonable for a federal minimum wage
tough cedar
if everyone is making more money now they're more likely to spend money
cosmic badge
$9 at the very least
mystic ermine
The issue is that you make more money, the company has to take in more money
tough cedar
actually you know what idc enough to argue this lol i'm not going to convince yall
and you aren't going to convince me because i don't care enough
mystic ermine
There have been economic studies
tough cedar
there have been just as many that say it'd be fine
mystic ermine
During the obama era, they expected a wage increase to $10.10 to kill 500k jobs
foggy fern
We have real world examples of how this works already in a few areas of the country
At least two states have a $15/hr minimum wage
tough cedar
of course i wasn't alive in the 70s and 80s when apparently you could work a minimum wage job and go to college and be just fine
cosmic badge
So I was wrong, minimum wage adjusted for inflation, where at its peak in 1968 would today be around $10/hr, not 8.
tough cedar
apparently gas was less than a dollar a gallon too
foggy fern
Less than a dollar a gallon was the 90s, not the 70s π
upper steppe
Fun fact, thonk: you used to be able to take a date to the movies, buy a large popcorn and 2 cokes, for a nickel
faint radish
looks like collins keeps her seat
mystic ermine
Fucking security camera, eh
faint radish
yeah, dems gonna lose a few seats there
oak cloak
obviously PA is going to be tight, but it's looking favorable for Biden right now
foggy fern
Looks like the Dems are going to have 48 in the Senate and the only shot at 50 will be if the other election in Georgia goes to a runoff too
oak cloak
seems lower than that at this point
foggy fern
Which it probably will but I don't see the Dems picking up both seats in Georgia in a runoff anyway
brisk cradle
I don't think $15 per hour minimum wage will kill jobs. Sure, the cost will likely be passed onto the consumer, but there's good examples of it working.
oak cloak
NYT still projects Biden to win GA
tough cedar
even if you pass the costs onto the consumer the costs are super spread out
so everyone still benefits
foggy fern
There is only so much they can pass on to the consumer in things like fast food so those guys would just have slimmer margins
brisk cradle
In Florida, the Coalition of Immokalee Workers asks wholesalers to pay an extra cent per tomato in exchange for improved worker conditions https://www.nytimes.com/2014/04/25/business/in-florida-tomato-fields-a-penny-buys-progress.html
foggy fern
Some places would have no choice but to raise prices, others would just have smaller profits, they wouldn't be that much smaller or that much of a price increase for most things
It's possible for the Dems to get 49 and rely on one pickup from a Georgia runoff to take the Senate but it's a long shot, requires winning NC
brisk cradle
It's far from being a big improvement but you have to start somewhere. And the cost to the consumer is minimal here, only one cent per tomato.
foggy fern
I don't think Ossoff has any chance of beating Perdue in Georgia, at least not unless it goes to a runoff too
near glen
did CNN just call WI partly?
faint radish
I don't think the second GA senate race can go to a runoff. That one did cause its a special election
oak cloak
It can, if neither gets a majority
brisk cradle
If Biden wins GA then Perdue has to do the runoff, I think.
oak cloak
yeah I think it's likely it'll be either/or
foggy fern
I think it might go to a runoff anyway taking a closer look at it, Perdue's lead would only have to shrink by like 40k
If Trump's lead shrinks an equal amount he'd still win
brisk cradle
Basically we're looking at Georgia deciding whether Democrats have a majority or not. And I think Republicans are favored in that special election, due to lower turnout.
foggy fern
Runoffs like that are weird
oak cloak
That's true
So yeah, if Biden wins it'll likely runoff, but it could runoff without Biden winning
brisk cradle
They have the semi-incumbent advantage and a likely low turnout race.
foggy fern
Voter fatigue is a thing that lowers turnout but then again it's the only election happening in January so all the money can flood into one race for GOTV efforts
fast flame
Ossoff is so good and Perdue is so bad. it sucks that it has to go to a runoff
drifting arch
probably already mentioned but trump filed a lawsuit in WI lol -.-
fast flame
what does it state?
foggy fern
Does Wisconsin not have a rule for automatic recounts when the race is that close? I'm assuming that's what the lawsuit is for
drifting arch
they don't have "meaningful access" to see the ballots being counted
fast flame
i know hes gonna request a recount but im curious what hes suing over
brisk cradle
WI does automatic recounts if the margin is <=0.25 percentage points
foggy fern
All counting is done though?
fast flame
more vote suppression.
foggy fern
If he delays the recount he just guarantees he loses
oak cloak
Yeah that's bizarre
faint radish
trump can pay $3 mill for a recount if its less that 1% diff in WI
fast flame
yeah and he will do that but this lawsuit does nothing but harm to him.
foggy fern
Is Wisconsin a state that allows ballots that arrive after election day?
If not there is nothing else to count
faint radish
didnt someone say CNN called cause they finished voting?
fast flame
as long as they are postmarked for election day or before, i think they are
faint radish
NYT hasnt called it yet
oak cloak
lol
faint radish
that lawsuit, for MI I think right, not WI
to halt counting in MI until they can observe
oak cloak
considering they are behind in MI right now that strategy doesn't seem likely to help him win either
I assume the goal was to get that through before dems took the lead
but yeah it's actually pretty hard to get a state to stop counting votes because the federal government has no jurisdiction on the matter
fast flame
i hope this isnt some strategy to drag it out in an attempt to allow time for a scheme of some sort
oak cloak
it probably is
faint radish
I mean not really, right now, lawsuits can be filed pretty much instantly. the important counties have judges on standby for this stuff
oak cloak
can't win the election, so gotta steal it
brisk cradle
fast flame
the goal is to cast as much doubt on the mail in/absentee ballots at possible to try to get them to not count
this
oak cloak
well if that isn't 2020 in a nutshell
fast flame
Thomas Kaplan, in Wilmington, Del. 21m ago
Biden is now raising money for a new βBiden Fight Fund,β which will finance βelection protection efforts for Joe Biden and Democrats up and down the ballot,β his campaign manager says.
they are gonna be prepared for whatever legal bullshit trump throws
brisk cradle
Twitter
oak cloak
NYT has called WI
foggy fern
NYT, AP, and CNN all called it
oak cloak
yup
foggy fern
AP hasn't budged on their call of AZ, afaik
oak cloak
nope they haven't
fast flame
yeah i know but trump is closing the gap
foggy fern
Dunno if Fox is still their own thing or just following AP now but last time I checked they called it too
I think they even called it first
brisk cradle
Fox called AZ first.
oak cloak
trump got mad so they un-did it lol
brisk cradle
I saw a tweet in which Trump was extremely angry. Triggered much?
brisk cradle
don't remember
brisk cradle
angry about the call
sweet canyon
So did Biden get MI?
oak cloak
probably will, not called yet
foggy fern
MI and NV put Biden at 270 and it's over
weary obsidian
lets not call it blocked, it fuels trumps fake censorship idea, its a disclaimer
elder portal
caught up on Trump vs. Biden Twitter accounts. Biden is certainly acting far more presidential about the whole thing than Trump. Has been, even before voting started
not that I'm surprised
foggy fern
They blocked replies, it's not just a disclaimer
weary obsidian
i see replies to it?
foggy fern
Huh, maybe different disclaimers do different things
sweet canyon
Why the heck is GA and NC so close.
foggy fern
His one before his speech last night you couldn't reply to
weary obsidian
fast flame
because trump is one crazy motherfucker
brisk cradle
I don't think NV will go to Trump. But it's close.
foggy fern
Oh maybe they just don't show them anymore unless you know how to go to that URL
brisk cradle
The Biden camp should be excited about their win in Wisconsin
fast flame
im sure they are
foggy fern
Ah, those are quote tweets
fast flame
that flip was big
brisk cradle
They're in the lead in Michigan and mail-in ballots will likely result in a Biden win in Pennsylvania.
elder portal
yeah, still looking at mail-ins going blue for all unaccounted states
also large cities take longer, so there's that
foggy fern
WI is the first flip NYT has called
brisk cradle
Eh, thing is, a lot of those mail-in ballots are Democratic and there's 1.4 million of them
sweet canyon
Won't NV be the 2nd flip if he gets it?
mystic ermine
You can see existing replies if you run tto a response
But, on the actual post itself, the comment/like/share buttons are gone
foggy fern
AZ was really the first flip called but NYT hasn't called that one yet
elder portal
AZ, WI both flipped
brisk cradle
We'll call it 60/40 to be generous to Trump, that's more than enough for a generous Biden lead.
elder portal
NV would be flip number 3
sweet canyon
That's big.
fast flame
i doubt it biden would need a ton in the mail in ballot
well good thing theres a ton of them
brisk cradle
NV wouldn't be a flip until Trump wins it. No evidence Trump is winning Nevada.
fast flame
indeed
faint radish
well with the recount in WI, that will probably get uncalled idk how the media outlets do it, but I dont think the SecState of WI will verify the results until the recount is over
elder portal
thought NV was red last time?
fast flame
yeah but the ap wouldnt call it if they werent confident
brisk cradle
Nope, it was a Clinton 2016 state
elder portal
huh, TIL
brisk cradle
Yes
elder portal
oh, it's MI that's flipping this year
brisk cradle
and WI
fast flame
yeah NV was blue in 2016, which is why it would be devastating to lose it now
sweet canyon
Alabama really doesn't like Biden, lol.
fast flame
biden up nationwide by nearly 3 million votes
wish it mattered
elder portal
it's likely MI is flipping this year, anyway. Longer this goes on, the bluer everything gets
fast flame
no he could still win without it
sweet canyon
He wouldn't lose but it would go to surpreme court
weary obsidian
i just wanna see my uncle cry over nc going blue
fast flame
hes on track to get PA which would push him over
sweet canyon
Yeah but if PA doesn't get in till Friday
faint radish
see, I dont think wanting family members to cry is a good thihg
sweet canyon
And Biden gets MI and NV tomorrow, Biden wins, right?
elder portal
TX and NC very fucking nearly going blue is absolutely unprecedented
that speaks volumes
oak cloak
family members can be bad too
fast flame
goes to show how insane trumpism is
pearl plinth
https://twitter.com/BNONews/status/1323902358808649731?s=20 what happened here
Twitter
fast flame
6 points is good for texas
brisk cradle
<2 point leads for Trump in NC and GA are more worrying for Trump.
elder portal
for Texas, that's hella close
faint radish
trump won by 9 points in TX last time around
fast flame
texas has always been the red cali if you will. you dont see CA getting within 6 points.
elder portal
I think NC being red is still a safe bet, but damn is it close
foggy fern
Texas basically split the difference between 2016 and 2018
Biden did better than Clinton but not as good as Beto
oak cloak
Biden isn't that inspiring, I don't think Beto is either but he did inspire a lot of people
elder portal
wonder what North Dakota is going to do
foggy fern
The party or governor appoints someone and they have a special election next year, afaik
drifting arch
ok well, AP just called WI for biden regardless of that lawsuit
oak cloak
as did NYT and CNN
lawsuit won't change the vote count, nor will a recount change it by much
faint radish
the WI recount may take two weeks to start
foggy fern
People dying before the election isn't a new thing, seems like every 2 to 4 years we get a news story about it happening in a race somewhere
oak cloak
WI was called less than 10 minutes ago
faint radish
CNN called it a while ago demon
oak cloak
ah, AP and NYT were recent then
elder portal
asscheeks are clenched this race
they're clenched every race, but this one especially
mystic ermine
fasten your seatbelts, clench your buttox...
oak cloak
we're literally waiting to find out if a fascist authoritarian who blatantly violates human rights and constantly spreads lies will win an election vs a guy who has so little dirt on him the worst Trump could throw at him was some made-up shit about his son
oak cloak
absolutely absurd and very disheartening for the state of this nation
oak cloak
yeah, that's good
elder portal
also many states legalized MJ
oak cloak
if we really want to get rid of the EC, have trump win the PV and lose the EC
elder portal
they're gonna need it after this election
oak cloak
they'd get rid of the EC the next day
elder portal
lol
pretty much
also apparently hard drugs have started to become, not legal, but no longer criminalized
near glen
whats PV?
brisk cradle
Popular vote @near glen
near glen
oh
foggy fern
Yeah, Oregon has ended the war on drugs
foggy fern
Adopted the Portugal model
elder portal
like I said, it seems to be working for other countries
so alright
are you telling me arresting more people leads to more felons?
what is this nonsense
oak cloak
It gets way better than that
elder portal
lol
foggy fern
Apparently it hasn't reduced the number of addicts a huge amount in Portugal but it allowed them to move resources from police to treatment
elder portal
moving weight off officer shoulders is as good a reason as any
foggy fern
iirc the main thing was reducing the rate new people were falling into addiction
oak cloak
the rate of drug use is pretty even between white and black people, but if we criminalize it and then quadruple police patrols in black neighborhoods, we'll stack the prisons full of black people
take away the right to vote from felons and boom, black people are now more disenfranchised
this was the entire strategy for the war on drugs put forth by reagan
elder portal
police don't also need to be rehab specialists and psychologists at the same time. Move resources to those places that can actually help
foggy fern
Don't forget prison labor
brisk cradle
Twitter
foggy fern
And it was Nixon, not Reagan
elder portal
once again, because data is fun, here's a dashboard full of Twitter activity:
https://stats.egg82.ninja/d/X2eIbGdMz/twitter?orgId=1
let me know if I should be tracking enyone else
yeah, there's filters at the top
helps a ton
it's all mostly similar data
I'm not (yet) tracking likes, RT, etc
but I might start
elder portal
lol, fair
I'm not data scientist either, but I tried to make it comprehensive enough
"activity" is interesting, it shows a nice graph on when tweets were posted
you can see how early/late Trump's been up
mostly it's sentiment analysis, deciding how good/bad a tweet is and how subjective/objective it is
for example, Biden's twitter activity over the last year, not counting retweets (which are usually automatic): https://i.imgur.com/o9AFR8Z.png
he's been staying up late recently
can't imagine why
otherwise, fairly consistent sleep schedule
Trump over the last year: https://i.imgur.com/bRKyLaU.png
I don't know when the guy sleeps
I guess mostly from 0:00 to 03:00
Tweets beyond a certain number are difficult to get through the Twitter API, hence the giant blank space
Trump posts a FUCKTON
yeah, my dashboard says the same
yeah
oak cloak
trump isn't always the one tweeting
elder portal
he is not, no
oak cloak
he has multiple people who tweet from his account
mystic ermine
both campaigns have teams for this
elder portal
so you have to assume at least some of it is someone else
oak cloak
yeah
mystic ermine
ref: Both of them have tweeted while on TV
elder portal
but also someone's up really damned late every night tweeting from Trump's personal account
iunno why
weirdness
oak cloak
we do know from actual reports of people in the whitehouse that trump doesn't wake up very early
and is often late
elder portal
yeah, look for coherent tweets
mystic ermine
round time coverage, I'd guess
elder portal
that's someone else π
mystic ermine
lol
elder portal
eh