oh lord electron I'm not a fan of
#general
granite axle
it's quite an experience
celest terrace
I'm working with WSL + Docker atm and it's the worst. Better to just use plain old Linux.
restive saffron
i have 16gb of ram and still no to electron
frank otter
I hardly have 8gb but almost everything is electron
granite axle
it's not actual electron but it's the same concept
granite axle
chrome engine as apps
restive saffron
I'm working with WSL + Docker atm and it's the worst. Better to just use plain o...
hey i use it on my vps, im not struggling because im just barely executing any commands
frank otter
chat apps, editors, etc etc
golden gust
I got this, one sec
restive saffron
imagine guys.
golden gust
restive saffron
electron but firefox
brittle jacinth
there's no way this is real
golden gust
that is real
brittle jacinth
is that actually how big it is holy shit
golden gust
discord leaks memory
cunning raft
nodejs was a mistake
restive saffron
is 1gb big?
restive saffron
nodejs was a mistake
?
brittle jacinth
oh RAM
brittle jacinth
i thought 1GB of storage
peak dirge
Chrome OS is better than Electron, after all you only have one instance of Chrome open at all times
cunning raft
cat how tf did you get it to 1 gig
frank otter
you're using discord right now.
the pins don't mention discussing 3rd party clients
golden gust
You just visit a few discords
granite axle
Chrome OS is better than Electron, after all you only have one instance of Chrom...
just one chonky instance
golden gust
Like, the thing doesn't seem to free memory from other channels, etc
restive saffron
HOLY SMOKES
celest terrace
Still, Electron and frameworks alike are the future.
restive saffron
how did you get it to 1gb of ram
cunning raft
Still, Electron and frameworks alike are the future.
lol
tell me this in a few years
restive saffron
discord will use 35% of my cpu but only 250mb of ram
frank otter
just one chonky instance
id rather one chonky instance than fifteen smaller, bloated instances each children of each other
pseudo pilot
java class started
cunning raft
js people will find a new framework
pseudo pilot
i am disappointed
frank otter
discord will use 35% of my cpu but only 250mb of ram
opposite here
restive saffron
Still, Electron and frameworks alike are the future.
🧢
brittle jacinth
web is the future
celest terrace
Lmfao I feel your pain gato
brittle jacinth
it needs a speed upgrade though
potent fossil
if you already know java at a proficient level, that class will deaden your soul
frank otter
I think Web based apps will take off
potent fossil
have fun gato!
golden gust
vagrant marlin
golden gust
just ctrl-tab'd to every discord server I have
peak dirge
IMO, Electron and Node.js only exist so that terrible Frontend devs can cosplay as desktop app developers and backend developers respectively
celest terrace
Hahaha wauw
frank otter
I'm not sure how I feel about nodejs and the entire desktop js situation
ashen dagger
tropic flame
Still, Electron and frameworks alike are the future.
what did you smoke, so I can be sure not to smoke it too?
frank otter
was js ever made to be a desktop and app programming thing
celest terrace
Zware vanelle Logics
brittle jacinth
Electron is meant to die tbh, PWAs will replace them when Javascript gets access to low-level APIs
cunning raft
what do you think a PWA is
granite flax
tropic flame
peak dirge
JS is a web browser language that’s been shoehorned into everything
cunning raft
i hate to break it to you but it's pretty much just electron
restive saffron
just ctrl-tab'd to every discord server I have
Best I could get
tropic flame
web languages invading the desktop application territory should have never happened
brittle jacinth
PWA is Electron except it's a single chromium instance rather than 30 different ones
frank otter
I'm honestly not sure why js is so popular, its not flawed just seriously seriously weird
golden gust
restive saffron
PWA is Electron except it's a single chromium instance rather than 30 different ...
what about- electron but firefox?
brittle jacinth
that exists, and it sucks
restive saffron
I'm honestly not sure why js is so popular, its not flawed just seriously seriou...
process.exit(0)
frank otter
there's a website for this
celest terrace
The alternatives aren't that much better tbh
restive saffron
as someone who barely knows js, im fine with it as my first coding language
potent fossil
electron but firefox was a thing called positron, but it got sunsetted and is archived now
frank otter
celest terrace
Just look at java Jframe
restive saffron
https://jsfuck.com/#
peak dirge
Unfortunately, I can’t complain much. I work at a startup now and a lot of it is JavaScript and Node.js
frank otter
duck wrong url
restive saffron
I'm not complaining, I'm fine with JavaScript, I also love Java equally.
peak dirge
Fixed http://www.jsfuck.com
brittle jacinth
Node.js and Python perplexes me. WOW you just locked yourself into a language with very bad threading capabilities. sugoi!
frank otter
I know a bit of rust
restive saffron
Node.js and Python perplexes me. WOW you just locked yourself into a language wi...
cluster 🙂
frank otter
Go I tried, I found channels and goroutines to be very powerful but I like rusts enums too much
brittle jacinth
Python doesn't have real threading though
hazy gulch
me ..
tropic flame
("kinda semi-decent" should be interpreted as 25% decent btw )
frank otter
OK this is my opinion and its not your opinion and I am open to persuasion but
rust > go > C > python > js
magic river
python and node are for things that are IO bound and/or small but you need to get done quick
frank otter
is opinions a mistake
magic river
C goes at the end
vernal moth
Isn't JS like the most used programming language?
vernal moth
Python is only for academics
brittle jacinth
js would go in front of python for me since it's generally more performant and has threading that exists (but is kinda bad)
frank otter
you are entitled to any opinion
vernal moth
Go is google's toy language
celest terrace
I hate Python's syntax it's so bad
celest terrace
It's a lot like PHP in many ways
frank otter
I'm not a fan of c++ at all though
vernal moth
Rust is for ppl that need something to believe in
frank otter
you want to get something done you import fifteen boostlibs
magic river
Go is for when you outgrow Python but don't want to use a better language like Kotlin or Rust 😛
hazy gulch
kotlin ?
vernal moth
Yeah remember when everybody started to write Microservices in go for no apperent reason? 😂
frank otter
opinions cannot disagree wiht mine
you're entitled to your opinion even if it's wrong - someone from some gc, 2018
peak dirge
C, C++, and JavaScript are the world’s most commonly used programming languages, to the saddest possible effect
hazy gulch
why
frank otter
C I quite like for very low level things, I tried writing a toy os and it made sense.
tropic flame
C, C++, and JavaScript are the world’s most commonly used programming languages,...
the only sad language here is JS though
brittle jacinth
honestly whenever I say JavaScript what I actually mean is TypeScript
magic river
C isn't as low level as you think
hazy gulch
shak in g my head
golden gust
I jumped through all my unread discords
vernal moth
Only ppl hating es6 have never used es6
hazy gulch
i hate arrows
peak dirge
At least I have the luxury of using TypeScript.
frank otter
C isn't as low level as things like assembly, but I like how they can be neatly combined
vernal moth
C isn't as low level as things like assembly, but I like how they can be neatly ...
I often prefer JS for TS
frank otter
Typescript just felt like a slightly messy javascript, but I used it a long time a go
brittle jacinth
Typescript is like Javascript except when you fuck up it tells you at compile time
vernal moth
i hate arrows
Don't use arrow functions then, async/await is your friend
vernal moth
Typescript is like Javascript except when you fuck up it tells you at compile ti...
Or it freaks out for no apperent reason
hazy gulch
fuck async
brittle jacinth
i WUV async
frank otter
Don't use arrow functions then, async/await is your friend
arrow functions are confusing, hard to read but so useful
peak dirge
Typescript is like Javascript except when you fuck up it tells you at compile ti...
But not always, and you can make it shut up.
restive saffron
Typescript just felt like a slightly messy javascript, but I used it a long time...
TypeScript is nice, a lot of cool JS projects are made in it.
magic river
I think the only time it makes sense to write anything new in C is if you need to run it on something Rust can't compile for or need something that is as small as possible and don't want to jump through the hoops needed to do that with Rust
hazy gulch
suffer
vernal moth
fuck async
Mojang employee detected
hazy gulch
true
brittle jacinth
golden gust
concurrency is fun
tropic flame
Mojang employee detected
hazy gulch
i hate concurrency
restive saffron
you hate good things, dont you?
golden gust
I wanna get into some of the more intricate things
hazy gulch
why did cpu designers create more threads
frank otter
I think the only time it makes sense to write anything new in C is if you need t...
someone tried making a basic toy os in rust and boy did it feel bloated
hazy gulch
or cores
golden gust
But,I ain't ever really had too many issues with threaded code
vernal moth
concurrency is fun
Cool thing about JS is that you never have concurrency issues in browsers
restive saffron
imagine, i make a plugin that does a backup on your server completely sync
magic river
peak dirge
concurrency I love fucking
magic river
That's why
hazy gulch
rust when you import spinlock
magic river
Shit it didn't give a neat embed
hazy gulch
lol !
golden gust
I mean, it's easier to scale cores than it is to scale clock speed
hazy gulch
cant even read it
magic river
The Free Lunch Is Over: A Fundamental Turn Toward Concurrency in Software
restive saffron
I mean, it's easier to scale cores than it is to scale clock speed
yes, just ask your host for more cores
golden gust
I mean in terms of CPU makers
restive saffron
i pretend there is only one core
but what about the async plugin tasks?
hazy gulch
fuck you
golden gust
making chips faster is complex
restive saffron
I mean in terms of CPU makers
o
frank otter
Concurrency as far as I know is very powerful if your code and logic is organised, otherwise its messy as flip
golden gust
adding more cores is "cheap"
hazy gulch
no concurrency
restive saffron
no concurrency
hater
brittle jacinth
hazy gulch
what do you mean
peak dirge
well then scale clock speed
Actually it is quite hard. Dennard scaling effectively stopped in 2006, which meant to get increased performance you have to use multiple CPUs now.
formal comet
why did they change the server ivcon
hazy gulch
sounds like you arent trying hard enough
frank otter
what's a webpack
magic river
Here let me just link http://gotw.ca/publications/concurrency-ddj.htm again
brittle jacinth
yes load the auth page with iframes
cunning raft
Amaranth didn't you know apache was made before async was discovered
brittle jacinth
don't use any javascript tooling
restive saffron
dont scream!
celest terrace
ugh please don't
frank otter
do you have one of these for Web assembly
hazy gulch
webasm
brittle jacinth
do you have one of these for Web assembly
unfortunately not 
frank otter
ah pity
peak dirge
sounds like you arent trying hard enough
No, it’s because of unforgiving physics. You should do some research.
frank otter
webasm is just another stepping stone towards rust dominance
restive saffron
fuck chrome! firefox for life
vernal moth
What's a firefox?
brittle jacinth
webasm is just another stepping stone towards rust dominance
when will rust enums be supported
never
rust enums will never be supported
hazy gulch
is it on fire
frank otter
it's like a chrome but more open and less restricted
vernal moth
Is that what masochists use?
golden gust
i mean, raw instructions are useless to an app
restive saffron
What's a firefox?
the best mainstream browser, mircosoft edge is fastest mainstream tho rn cuz it's a fork
frank otter
when will rust enums be supported
never
rust enums will never be supported
no wait what
hazy gulch
i dont care about apps
frank otter
webasm doesn't work rust enums what
hazy gulch
why do i care about apps
golden gust
Who's to say your site is even on an x86 machine?
brittle jacinth
so here's a story
vernal moth
the best mainstream browser, mircosoft edge is fastest mainstream tho rn cuz it'...
Edge is love
hazy gulch
fuck risc
magic river
webasm is proof https://www.destroyallsoftware.com/talks/the-birth-and-death-of-javascript is true
restive saffron
Edge is love
Edge is default, I don't run default.
brittle jacinth
so i had an API which used protobuf for its transport
hazy gulch
i only use x86_64
golden gust
.wat
limber knotBOT
brittle jacinth
code generation for protobuf is expensive in JS (I had a 2MB library output for the API only)
tropic flame
fuck chrome! firefox for life
this
vernal moth
Edge is default, I don't run default.
That's so stupid. That's like saying driving on the right is default, i drive left
brittle jacinth
so i decided to try codegening in rust and having all protobuf encoding happen in WASM
restive saffron
https://www.destroyallsoftware.com/talks/wat
upper flicker
makes a note not to ride in a car with mini
brittle jacinth
turns out that WASM bindings don't work with Rust enums at all
restive saffron
That's so stupid. That's like saying driving on the right is default, i drive le...
well, every experienced windows user will use mircosoft edge to install literally any other browser.
hazy gulch
rust ....
frank otter
That's so stupid. That's like saying driving on the right is default, i drive le...
I do unironically drive left because road laws
vernal moth
_makes a note not to ride in a car with mini_
Hey i only crashed my car once!
upper flicker
lol
mental meadow
mini what are you doing this late smh
vernal moth
well, every experienced windows user will use mircosoft edge to install literall...
I like to call myself an experienced users and I enjoy using edge, thank you very much
frank otter
well, every experienced windows user will use mircosoft edge to install literall...
use curl smh
hazy gulch
use lynx
golden gust
Mini, you do know they only call it off roading when intentional, rite?
vernal moth
mini what are you doing this late smh
Being a msft chill, what else?!
mossy vessel
That's so stupid. That's like saying driving on the right is default, i drive le...
So it's always you blocking the left lane, KNEW IT!
restive saffron
use curl smh
if i had to use curl to download a web browser, im not using the os.
frank otter
manually pop bytes off the network whatsits
brittle jacinth
manually pop bytes off the network whatsits
yes stop using DBUS sockets were not meant to be abstracted
restive saffron
i like to keep my command line and my os seperate, meaning i shouldnt have to do os related operations like changing settings via command line
frank otter
my cli is my os
brittle jacinth
"hello I would like to a(siii(ii)) apples please"
frank otter
I do the vast majority of things on cli apart from something
tropic flame
imagine using Edge to download Chrome
literally a waste of time since they have the same core haha get it guys what a nice joke
vernal moth
Man this is getting too stupid, even for me
golden gust
cli is just faster for a lot of stupid things
I use the terminal for opening a finder window in a folder as it's easier than navigating manually :L
hazy gulch
lol !
frank otter
cli is nice, plus you cant tabspam a gui
restive saffron
imagine using Edge to download Chrome
literally a waste of time since they have ...
well, before it didnt and it's probably why a lot of new users still do it.
magic river
btw node has threads https://nodejs.org/api/worker_threads.html
brittle jacinth
main problem with CLI is that you never remember command arguments unless you do that command every single day of your life
tropic flame
well, before it didnt and it's probably why a lot of new users still do it.
then they should be informed
hazy gulch
node is existing
restive saffron
btw node has threads https://nodejs.org/api/worker_threads.html
hazy gulch
just remember them silly
frank otter
main problem with CLI is that you never remember command arguments unless you do...
fish-shell and tabspam
golden gust
with sane tools, arguments are generally consistent to some degree
hazy gulch
never use a desktop again
visual egret
its 22:36... still about 1 hour and 24 minutes to do the epic hardfork april fools prank thats going to happen today...
right?
hazy gulch
what
restive saffron
then they should be informed
they can inform themselves, i was very tempted to go from firefox back to edge, but then i remembered i dont wanna be seen by my friends as one of those 'old people' who use microsoft edge
golden gust
the best april fools was when oskars parents said "Hey, we'll be safe without one, just once, right?"
hazy gulch
thats mean
visual egret
wtf cat
frank otter
that's mean but funny
visual egret
smh ur parents did the same
tropic flame
they can inform themselves, i was very tempted to go from firefox back to edge, ...
i just use Firefox anyway but if I had to go Chromium-based I'd just use Edge and fuck it
screw my friends lmfao
golden gust
I mean, I disowned my parents \o/
Okay, well, my father disowned me, but, it still counts!
hazy gulch
does it
frank otter
ungoogled-chromium would like to enter the chat
mental meadow
understandable cat
hazy gulch
is it transitive
restive saffron
screw my friends lmfao
idk man, everytime my mom is either on my pc or hers, she'll be using mircosoft edge and i go like wowwww
visual egret
Chromium Edge is great
hazy gulch
sorry i hate bill gates
visual egret
anyone who says otherwise is stupid or hasnt tried it
hazy gulch
cannot talk to you
restive saffron
probably, but i want it to be more socially accepted before i switch, i like mainstream
frank otter
another reason I use a tiling wm is that nobody else knows how to use my pc
hazy gulch
why do you care about social acceptance
mental meadow
I think this is the dumbeset discussion I've read in a long time
hazy gulch
people who dont use lynx
restive saffron
why do you care about social acceptance
support
tropic flame
Chromium Edge is great
Chromium Edge is superior to Chrome for still allowing you to mute tabs instead of "websites"
hazy gulch
what support
tropic flame
like who the fuck had that idea?
frank otter
I think this is the dumbeset discussion I've read in a long time
is this the general attitude of this channel
vernal bone
The Firefox engine is a great project, and it's community driven forks are great browsers in my opinion.
tropic flame
"no no you can't mute single tabs anymore, you can now mute all tabs that have one website"
vernal moth
> literally a copy of somebody elses web browser
Says the maintainer of a fork
visual egret
sorry i hate bill gates
bill gates owns like 1% of MS stock.....
restive saffron
what support
more mainstream, more support. why do u think i no switch when i realize linux good for my machine?? because of compatability and native applications.
mental meadow
again
hazy gulch
wha t
tropic flame
this
vernal moth
Am sorry, am always right cat
hazy gulch
its a browse r and its updates
golden gust
I never got into firefox
restive saffron
Edge is the best Chromium
sry, it was my best example
spare venture
Firefox is nice
tropic flame
firefox > edge > all chromiums
golden gust
I mean, I used it for a good while, but, then it got slow
golden gust
and then they had some huge kick-off project where they optimized it
mental meadow
getting DMs from him
wraith trail
Firefox on mac feels super slow
spare venture
Isn’t made by an evil corporation either
golden gust
and then it got slow again
hazy gulch
not cool
golden gust
so, they fixed it again
hazy gulch
ssilly dm
vernal moth
Firefox is irrelevant thankfully, I don't even bother to test my shit in Firefox anymore
restive saffron
Isn’t made by an evil corporation either
dw, they'll own it soon enough
spare venture
wat
hazy gulch
test for ie6 support
vernal moth
Only reason hangar works on firefox is because machine maker uses firefox
magic river
Hangar is a failed project
frank otter
every do often I ping my friends projects with an ie6 vm to scare then
golden gust
and, now it seems fine, but, I just, I'm used to vivaldi which has its own moronic issues, but, still
hazy gulch
if your website doesnt support ie6 it sucks
magic river
So sad, I guess we'll have to go back to using forums
ashen cliff
Yes.
mental meadow
Hangar is a failed project
you realize that now?
hazy gulch
:D
visual egret
wtf aurora
golden gust
is hangar hosted anywhere right now?
restive saffron
Only reason hangar works on firefox is because machine maker uses firefox
sounds like a plugin I'd make where I switch the underling api to paper for no reason while my server runs Purpur.
hazy gulch
wait does that mean my coat hangra sucks
spare venture
Safari and chrome are like 99% right
hazy gulch
:(
vernal moth
is hangar hosted anywhere right now?
It is! On my server! You just can't access it 😂 😂
frank otter
imma head out now if paper chan isn't still there when I wake imma be unhappy
restive saffron
cya!
golden gust
gfdi mini
hazy gulch
if it is still here i will be angry
restive saffron
Mad because bad?
mental meadow
mad because sad
tropic flame
Firefox is irrelevant thankfully, I don't even bother to test my shit in Firefox...
cool thing i don't use your websites
hazy gulch
is your website ie6 compatible
ashen cliff
No.
vernal moth
cool thing i don't use your websites
You Never used my mapping viewer before?
mental meadow
I'm still on firefox both mobile and desktop, don't care enough to switch lol 😄
restive saffron
69 HAHAHAH
hazy gulch
f ire fox when
magic river
The only way you get IE6 compatible is to make websites like it's 2009
tropic flame
You Never used my mapping viewer before?
let me be honest and out of jokes this time: I don't remember
hazy gulch
why is the re a pocket in my web browser
tropic flame
you got a mapping viewer?
spare venture
Why is Firefox losing market share?
mental meadow
magic river
Why is Firefox losing market share?
Every page Google controls has an ad for Chrome if you aren't already using it
vernal moth
tropic flame
https://minidigger.github.io/MiniMappingViewer/#/mojang
h u h, never used it
vernal moth
That's globally, including mobile
hazy gulch
let it grow like cancer
tropic flame
cool
spare venture
Eh that includes phones
vernal moth
Eh that includes phones
Which is how most ppl interact with the internet
restive saffron
honestly chromium just feels snappier
edge chromium sure
spare venture
Meh
brittle jacinth
at least, thats my results from my test of playing back youtube on both factory Firefox and Google Chrome
spare venture
True
tropic flame
and uses less CPU
where's the /s, i don't see it anywhere
spare venture
Surprised safari that high
hazy gulch
i need internet explorer support
mental meadow
Apple
restive saffron
i used chrome when my pc was a potato, if you say that junk is snappy ill give you a video of my all in one pc opening chrome while roblox is open and show how slow it was
hazy gulch
ro blox ?
mossy vessel
Vivaldi 
hazy gulch
john apple
restive saffron
Apple pro 🦾
vernal moth
Safari is the new internet explorer
tropic flame
simple, every browser in iOS is safari reskinned lul
vernal moth
If firefox is shit, safari is the devil
hazy gulch
i love webkit
golden gust
Safari is k, but, defo not a daily user for me
vernal moth
simple, every browser in iOS is safari reskinned lul
That's worth an antitrust!
magic river
Yes
hazy gulch
no complete tech monopolies yet smh
magic river
Safari is usually the snappiest on macOS and definitely uses the least power
restive saffron
simple, every browser in iOS is safari reskinned lul
does that mean the google browser is just safari?
golden gust
I mean, they forked apples webkit years ago
magic river
10% Safari desktop usage means Apple laptops and desktops have probably 12% marketshare
vernal moth
On Ios, aPPLE is banning all browsers that don't use their shitty browser engine
tropic flame
does that mean the google browser is just safari?
yeah, just the same engine, with a skin and fancy shit like Google sync or whatever
golden gust
ouch
spare venture
I hated safari on my MacBook
restive saffron
On Ios, aPPLE is banning all browsers that don't use their shitty browser engine
Pog, Apple is so good at discontinuing support with stuff!
olive marlin
Chrome on mobile doesn't support extensions, FF does. And my FF containers on desktop 
restive saffron
yes
magic river
Apple isn't just doing that now, Apple has always banned third party browser engines
golden gust
Like, most of us techies just use it to download another browser
But, for your average mac user, who cares?
vernal moth
Even worse, there was a time when safari used a more modern browser engine, any everybody else was stuck using outdated crap because mighty apply didn't allow them to upgrade
golden gust
it's a competent web browser and bar some corners of the internet is well supported
vernal moth
It's the least supported modern browser cat
magic river
Safari is what all the people with money use
vernal moth
Modern as in, still updated
golden gust
yes, but there are very few sites in your day to day use which don't support it
vernal moth
Heck, Safari still doest support the web push api
craggy veldt
i think i love paper-chan
vernal moth
hazy gulch
why
vernal moth
It's settled
hazy gulch
you aare biased and nitpicking i win
vernal moth
That's number of web features supported
golden gust
You're looking at it from a dev aspect
daily users don't give a shit about dev aspects
vernal moth
That's what supported means
golden gust
they want something which is light and works
tropic flame
you aare biased and nitpicking i win
dunkey reference, i approve
hazy gulch
:D
golden gust
I was gonna test something
and then I booted up an arch vm and now updating to pray that it fixes my display
golden gust
otherwise I gotta go into hell to work out why the fuck it's showing up on the wrong tty
spare venture
yes but chrome is the devil's browser
vernal moth
Seems dns related
magic river
Twitter
golden gust
backup status page lol
magic river
Nope, the page they link in there also doesn't work
vernal moth
It works for me
golden gust
Yea, works here
vernal moth
But like, if dns is down, you have a bad time
I also have ppl reporting the main status page works for them sooooo
magic river
Who thought putting the status page for azure on *.azure.com was a good idea?
golden gust
all there is the thing at the top
upper flicker
microsoft status pages are worthless
even if you could reach it, it'd just say it was all fine
restive saffron
Who thought putting the status page for azure on *.azure.com was a good idea?
Why isn't it?
magic river
Because their DNS is fucked
golden gust
because if your DNS infra shits bricks...
restive saffron
LOL XBOX IS DOWN
magic river
So I can't load that page
vernal moth
What's xbox?
vernal moth
Azure dns is fucked
Anything that accesses anything in the azure domain seems fucked
Including bing
And minecraft.net
magic river
vernal moth
https://catinthehatattack.com/
I approve
ancient bolt
so is the joke here that cat can be used to print the content of files?
vernal moth
Just scroll to the bottom
ancient bolt
idk i think vuln logos are cool
magic river
ah the classics https://twitter.com/dakami/status/1377724731101642752
tribal rivet
everybody gangsta until april 1st ends and paper doesn't change server icon
brittle jacinth
100 people left because of the change, now only weebs remain
tribal rivet
lmao
golden gust
#worthit
rain yew
Tab discord changing to PaperMC like
tribal rivet
Tab discord changing to PaperMC like
I noticed that like 4 hours ago
I looked at server list for whole day
and noticed that 4 hours ago
brittle jacinth
i noticed like 5 minutes after the change
rain yew
I was like "Back to the old logo I see... Why is the chat topic so different now?"
magic river
Getting in early on this one https://twitter.com/TeletubbiesHQ/status/1377572244398936066
brittle jacinth
Proof Of Watched
stiff yarrow
I hope everyone is having a good day today 😊
brittle jacinth
transactions are verified by watching teletubbies
tribal rivet
I hope everyone is having a good day today 😊
me, sure, the people who left because of anime girl, probably not so much lol
brittle jacinth
god I can't look at teletubbies anymore without something in my head screaming "AMONG US"
void void
Love paper-chan lol
stiff yarrow
I'm going stir crazy 
vaccine soon pls
tropic flame
"staying in the server for 24 hours crashes everyone!!"
"lol just kick them after 23 hours and 59 minutes" - Mojang
this is beautiful
warm anchor
got my 1st one yesterday
how many request you sent in 
potent fossil
a few thousand
that system didnt even get me in, i got in through a friend whose husband works at a clinic and he had extra doses
placid egret
wait a second....
potent fossil
the official system is stupid
potent fossil
no, paper-chan is our mascot.
placid egret
good good
potent fossil
not april fools.
placid egret
no april fools that is good
potent fossil
👍
placid egret
love is temporary
paper-chan is eternal
potent fossil
correct
cunning raft
placid egret
kekw
visual egret
How much crack were the team who were in charge of optimising the game on? https://youtu.be/Dx5u_9mCggI?
like seriously
its a triple a game, it should at least not turn into a powerpoint when i get shot at
twin lagoon
scuffed pc
topaz mortar
It should turn into a LaTeX Beamer presentation?
visual egret
i guess life remains sad
spare venture
It’s call of duty lol
A game designed for consoles, it hasn’t been very good on PC for a long time, war zone is like the first time since 2006
high kindle
what happend to the server image
brittle jacinth
A console is a computer
brittle jacinth
what happend to the server image
It was upgraded
high kindle
*downgradded
high kindle
magic river
Linking this purely for the thumbnail, I have no idea if the video is worth a watch or not https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_jVAfk4AG3A
spare venture
Lmao
granite flax
A game designed for consoles, it hasn’t been very good on PC for a long time, wa...
the MW engine is actually pretty solid
magic river
It should be, it's quake
granite flax
the previous iterations of the engine before MW (2019) just feel like a console port to pc
with the newer one it actually feels like a PC game
magic river
Oh that's right, they did that stupid thing where they reused a name
The old ones were based on the Q3A engine, MW (2019) was apparently an almost complete rewrite
granite flax
yeah
magic river
I wonder if the term you're looking for is "arcade" rather than "console" 😛
Or they just did a shit job with it but Q3A obviously was a PC engine
warm anchor
magic river
I don't think I've played one past Black Ops and usually played on console (was with my cousins, zombies and such)
potent fossil
i used to go to this place called the dime arcade, it was so fun. sad it's gone now. every game was a dime, had a blast there for hours
random
lavish crest
Why?
Why is this icon bad?
I know Anime is controversial, but why is it controversial?
tropic flame
guys this isnt funny anymore D:
paper-chan is here to stay
it's best to just worship it
lavish crest
anime is not controversial
Oh, that was bad wording on my part. Meant to say the Manga/Anime art style.
quiet rover
the ears... are paper planes.. or is it a headband attachment?
lavish crest
Headband
tropic flame
i think it's a headband attachment because of that thing holding the hair down at the forehead
yea
lavish crest
You can see bits of the human ears between the hair too.
tropic flame
Oh, that was bad wording on my part. Meant to say the Manga/Anime art style.
eeeeh i still don't see how an art style can be "controversial" but meh
it's just a drawing
nothing bad lmao
some people left because of a literal drawing
void void
Yo can you do HTML / CSS in IntelliJ?
quiet rover
void void
?
Wait
who did the patting on the head animation again
did u end up making it so her eyes squint or was it too hard
was it that astro girl who made it? i cant remember
sheesh is that u in ur pfp
my boy jacked
u do calisthenics?
just BB actually
you do anything?
magic river
I have a feeling there is a woman named Allison who owns the email allykat@gmail.com
She keeps using my email to sign up for things, alleykat@gmail.com
magic river
Eh, my email gets signed up for so much crap all the time anyway my inbox is a whitelist
I just poke through spam every so often to make sure I didn't miss something
unkempt drift
Yes
unkempt drift
Yeah, I thought NZ was on the other side of the line
magic river
The main island is, this one isn't
wraith trail
their anthem sounds like videogame music
magic river
That's because it's a MIDI of their anthem 😛
wraith trail
ah I see yeah, thought that was an official recording for some reason
jade flax
Nothing is worse than buying new monitors and not being able to get a better gpu while you're at it
jade flax
Just got three (one still on the way) 27" monitors
upgraded from my mix of samsung, dell and ASUS
magic river
What'd you get?
jade flax
I wasn't too worried about refresh rate as I don't game on them too often
However, when i got them they were much cheaper, had a deal going for a day
magic river
Nice
I got 2 of these https://www.lg.com/us/monitors/lg-27gn950-b-gaming-monitor
I can't imagine having three, my desk would have to be like 8' long
jade flax
I think in total I paid like $300+
magic river
I paid... a little more than that
jade flax
I only got two to start with... but after dealing with just two and a big empty space I caved
much easier to read code with imo
calm lance
void void
what is the latest java lts edition?
magic river
11
void void
not 16?
jade flax
nope
void void
oh ok
jade flax
you want to use 11
magic river
That's the latest release, not the latest lts
jade flax
^
magic river
16 is better but is breaks some plugins doing funny things with reflection
void void
That's the latest release, not the latest lts
yeah ik but it seems like time to create a new lts imo
ok maybe not
zealous wedge
17 will be Lts
void void
nvm
zealous wedge
it's every 3 years
magic river
8 came out in 2014, 11 came out in 2018, 17 will be out in September
void void
ok tysm
also paper/paper api doesnt have that weird openjdk license thing where the builds are in a different license then the source code right?
magic river
They're both GPL
magic river
paper and paper api
void void
ok
magic river
Well, technically they're in a legal grey area that's probably fine so long as you don't ship it
void void
wait the builds too right and not like openjdk
magic river
The source code is in a legal grey area, paperclip is fine, the builds are straight up illegal to redistribute
So I guess they are different 😛
This is true for Spigot too btw
Because Minecraft isn't GPL
wraith trail
well bukkit/spigot/paper is based on mojang's code, which is proprietary
void void
Because Minecraft isn't GPL
oh wait nvm
wraith trail
so that's the root of the issue
magic river
You're violating Mojang's copyright and since it isn't GPL you're also violating that license so violating everyone else's copyright too
wraith trail
paper's patches are gpl/mit, spigot's patches are proprietary
magic river
That's why the source code is distributed as patch files and the builds are distributed as a binary patching tool
void void
but in the end, the builds are still gpl licensed?
void void
paper's patches are gpl/mit, spigot's patches are proprietary
yeah spigot's licensing is a mystery
magic river
You can use them, you can't give them to anyone
(since copyright controls distribution)
wraith trail
yeah spigot's licensing is a mystery
Spigot's patches aren't a mystery, they are proprietary
void void
Spigot's patches aren't a mystery, they are proprietary
then why was paper allowed to use them?
magic river
md_5 decided the license situation wasn't fucked up enough
Paper is patches on top of Spigot
You're the one that's downloading Spigot and applying the patches when you make a build
Legal grey area, probably allowed
zealous wedge
spigot is fine because it would be incredibly risky for him to sue anyone
wraith trail
You're the one that's downloading Spigot and applying the patches when you make ...
Unless I misunderstand something you are not, that is included in paperclip
the only thing that is downloaded is the vanilla server, and then it is patched
magic river
Yeah, fair point, paperclip starts from vanilla
But if any of us tried to sue over this stuff Mojang's fancy sounding lawyers in London would be in touch
They're fun
void void
spigot is fine because it would be incredibly risky for him to sue anyone
true
ok maybe i should stop worrying about this?
jade flax
probably for the best
magic river
Just don't distribute server jars and you're fine
wraith trail
if you want sane licensing, minecraft is the last place to look
jade flax
If only people weren't so scummy we wouldn't have to worry so damn much about a license
void void
if you want sane licensing, minecraft is the last place to look
yeah most fun minecraft stuff operates illegally/gray zone
magic river
"people" in this case includes Curse and Mojang too
jade flax
I was aiming more towards those who steal code and profit, but that too
unkempt drift
fun note, as does almost all video game youtube/streaming content (operates in a legal illegal/gray area)
void void
fun note, as does almost all video game youtube/streaming content (operates in a...
no mojang allows that
wraith trail
what does curse actually do with all of this? Always been a bit unclear on their involvement
jade flax
machine did say "almost"
magic river
Curse used to own Bukkit (and paid at least some of the original developers to work on it)
Mojang bought the project and team from Curse
celest coyote
Nintendo blocks a shitton of game play videos
magic river
No one told anyone else about any of this
No idea if Curse or Mojang ever owned the copyright for the stuff those 4 worked on or not
jade flax
Mojang should offer a community API instead of having people run their game in a gray area, but then again, you'll see a unicorn before that
celest coyote
They do offer an api
wraith trail
datapacks
void void
They do offer an api
only for bedrock i think
unkempt drift
magic river
We were under the impression Curse was a partnership where we got services and they got ad money, not that they owned the project and people were getting paid to do what we were now doing for free
void void
Mojang should offer a community API instead of having people run their game in a...
they should just allow spigot/paper
magic river
And we had no idea that legally speaking Mojang owned the project as much as anyone can be said to own an open source project
golden gust
Mojang had plans to but dropped the idea
golden gust
They have datapacks, and, well, they couldn't offer something on the level that forge/bukkit based stuff do
magic river
I wonder if their plans for a replacement for BukkitDev ran in to contract issues
It definitely had "we have no API to target" issues
wraith trail
I mean parts of datapacks are fine, but command functions in replacement of an actual api
magic river
But it was going to be a Forge, MCP, Bukkit, etc thing as a stopgap
golden gust
you have to consider all the aspects, e.g. the time it would take to make something like an API without just exposing server internals, the work to expose aspects of the game in a useful manner, documenting the new system and testing it, as well as getting two large communities to jump ship
magic river
You know, other games don't fret so much over compatibility
You upgraded Skyrim from 1.2.9.23 to 1.2.9.27? Half your mods just broke, good job
celest coyote
Maybe because its java
jade flax
Imagine not properly following semver
celest coyote
Java devs love backwards compatibility
golden gust
language has nothing to do with it
magic river
Compatibility mattered when updates came out once a week or once a month but now they're every 12-18 months
true canyon
We were under the impression Curse was a partnership where we got services and t...
That was a great fucking surprise.
golden gust
I mean, where it makes sense, sure, but, like, in the quest of hampering stuff, no
Like, maintaining an API is basically an entire seperate teams task in the scale of mojang
magic river
If people have to update/rewrite their mod every 12-18 months that's not a big deal
golden gust
and, well, mojang do actually interact with the community
magic river
Every other game works like that
true canyon
I liked the day where curse told us that our unpaid bukkitdev staff weren't doing a good enough job, so they wanted us to for free train our paid replacements on how to moderate bukkitdev.
golden gust
We got RGB added to chat in like 2 weeks
jade flax
I liked the day where curse told us that our unpaid bukkitdev staff weren't doin...
LOL
"the kids on the forums are acting like they owe us something, why not follow their lead?"
true canyon
And that's why the rest of the staff also quit 😄
jade flax
rightfully so
static badge
wait till you find out mojang owns paper
jade flax
wait until you find out kashike knows
worthy geode
Honestly, Mojang owning Paper wouldn't be that bad imo
But just somewhat supporting the project would be enough, and maybe they are doing that already, idk
magic river
Remember when a Mojang employee suggested we should suck it up and keep doing things anyway because otherwise we didn't care about the community?
static badge
when was that
magic river
void void
Honestly, Mojang owning Paper wouldn't be that bad imo
But just somewhat support...
idk about mojang but big corporations seem to ruin projects and basically ea them
but idk mojang
magic river
Oh god I forgot about this bullshit https://bukkit.org/threads/mojang-and-the-bukkit-project.309715/
worthy geode
Mojang as a developer seems pretty decent in recent years
unkempt drift
microsoft hasn't ruined MC really has it?
magic river
That post said nothing, promised nothing, and just tried to make sure everyone understood it wasn't their fault
magic river
People thought it meant Mojang was going to start paying people to pick up where we left off though so they were happy for a few days/weeks
spare venture
mojang made them do it
void void
maybe that's why paper 2.0 happened
what's that
spare venture
it's what we're living in right now
void void
and mojang owns paper?
lol im new dont judge
spare venture
i can tell
wraith trail
not that we know of
spare venture
no, they don't as far as we know
void void
no, they don't *as far as we know*
as far as we know
spare venture
but maybe paper 2.0 happened because mojang bought them and made them change their standards 😉
celest coyote
Paper chan was directly caused by mojang!?
cunning raft
i hear the cat is just in it for the money!
void void
Paper chan was directly caused by mojang!?
mojang is a weeb!
spare venture
yes
celest coyote
Ofc
worthy geode
Its a test for the new Mojang logo, soon we will see Paper-chan everytime when you switch resource packs or start the game
celest coyote
Its a test for creeper kun
spare venture
good lord
magic river
The official Minecraft Server software that we have made available is not included in CraftBukkit.
spare venture
some of you need to go outside and smell fresh air
magic river
worthy geode
It would make things easier if that was the case, but meh
spare venture
what would be nice if mojang's decisions were based on anything other than money
but 'tis a business
wraith trail
I mean it's clear they aren't entirely. Such as releasing mappings, and just recently no longer talking out that testing framework or whatever (never really heard of it myself)
spare venture
yeah not entirely
wraith trail
both things that people here have requested
spare venture
the devs still seem to love the game and want to help the community
but the upper execs and management
celest coyote
Its not about the money, you can't just open source your ip and still maintain full control
worthy geode
The only part where Mojang really seems like they want to make money is the bedrock edition will all those store microtransactions
mighty storm
and mojang owns paper?
lol im new dont judge
👀
spare venture
oh i'm not talking about open sourcing it, i'm just complaining about mojang
void void
what would be nice if mojang's decisions were based on anything other than money
that's what i mean
they should loosen up the eula
imo
golden gust
i hear the cat is just in it for the money!
what money?!
spare venture
i could sell a diamond sword with sharpness 5000 on it right now and mojang wouldn't do anything to me
zealous wedge
smh don't lie to us
celest coyote
The roubles
mighty storm
You haven't verified your tax Forms yet cat we can't pay you yet
zealous wedge
we know what you're hiding
wraith trail
that mojang money you're getting under the table
void void
i could sell a diamond sword with sharpness 5000 on it right now and mojang woul...
oh ok when did they change the eula?
spare venture
like a year ago
golden gust
I disagree with their eula, but, I can understand whhhy they felt the need to put their foot down
spare venture
agreed
golden gust
I'm in firm belief that if shitty servers didn't exist, they'd be much more lax
spare venture
probably, but you have servers selling actual gambling in lootboxes, or selling other super shady stuff to children
wraith trail
I mean shitty servers are shitty imo. They're marketing to young kids who don't know better
that kinda stuff is completely scummy
golden gust
golden gust
and, well, back in the IRC days, paper never really had any rules outside of "don't be a cunt"
void void
and, well, back in the IRC days, paper never really had any rules outside of "do...
so it does now
glass dragon
Didn't they also reformat the EULA recently with more fair and clear terminology? The only ones that should be hit by the bans are serious offenders
spare venture
the rules were even very lax until paper 2.0 in general
golden gust
And, well, as we grew, that sorta no longer worked, especially in the modern hyper political/sensitive world
void void
the rules were even very lax until paper 2.0 in general
what rules?
wraith trail
in that context, the community guidelines of paper
spare venture
ye
wraith trail
https://papermc.io/community-guidelines for the long version
spare venture
sell cosmetic entitlements, except for "Capes," which we define as anything that attempts to visually emulate the feature of a Minecraft player Cape.
cough badlion, optifine....
golden gust
Yea, mojang just sorta like... gr8 enforcement skills...
wraith trail
but badlion sells "cloaks"!
zealous wedge
mojang doesn't want to fight that fight
spare venture
yeah
zealous wedge
maybe they can once 1.17 is out and we have vannilla shaders
cunning raft
plus players will literally just get mad
spare venture
i forgot the exact number but like 5% of java multiplayer players have an optifine cape?
worthy geode
Quite a lot, yeah
golden gust
wouldn't surprise me
spare venture
mojang goes after optifine, they're just screwing over those players
golden gust
Optifine was essentially an essential at one point
zealous wedge
the dev has to make money somehow
spare venture
so do we
but we follow the guidelines
this guy gets away with making MILLIONS off of violating them
brittle jacinth
honestly i'm not really that big in the mc community but fabric like it has a much nicer ecosystem
zealous wedge
fabric has its fair share of issues too lol
wraith trail
Although he could sell anything and people would buy it to an extent
hats or something idk
spare venture
yeah
golden gust
fabric has some nice stuff, but, their community.. er...
spare venture
he just chose to violate the EULA
brittle jacinth
heard forge and optifine devs don't like each other very much
spare venture
he even calls them donations lol
brittle jacinth
spare venture
wtf it costs $10 for an optifine cape
celest coyote
Look who is talking 🧐
spare venture
that dude is massively rich off of it
magic river
Hey I waved 😛
wraith trail
he upped the price a while back
golden gust
We should get youth pastor ryan in our community
spare venture
has sold at least 1-2 million capes
wraith trail
used to be less than half that
golden gust
I bet we could taint him
magic river
There was at least one mod developer making like $5k/mo on Patreon for a while
formal turret
lol the seus guy was makinig like 50k a month
formal turret
might still be
spare venture
at least he doesnt break the rules
golden gust
I mean, these community is horrifically underfunded
magic river
Oh, I was talking about an actual mod, thaumcraft or something
spare venture
he makes $60k per month now
golden gust
and yet people expect that people are practically fulltiming it
cunning raft
mojang offered to buy optifine, no?
magic river
But wow, that's even crazier
celest coyote
Paper devs live in poverty
spare venture
i wouldn't sell optifine
golden gust
Pretty sure he was pay walling some of his stuff
magic river
$60k/mo is enough to hire a dev team 😛
spare venture
i'd keep making millions lol
worthy geode
Yeah, 7000 patrons, 60k per month
magic river
optifine dev wanted to keep the income streams or get enough money from Mojang to offset them forever, basically
formal turret
does he have a team now or is he still soloing it? idk lol
magic river
That was the gist I got of it
spare venture
but yeah mojang really fucked up with optifine and it annoys me that they (optifine devs) just get a free pass
brittle jacinth
seus kinda deserves the amount of stonks hes getting tbh
magic river
These days optifine doesn't even make the game run faster
golden gust
Or, well, people would, but, there'd likely be a lot of flak, somebody else starting their own project, and, well, yaaarrr
worthy geode
We are getting closer to a point where optifine is no longer needed tho
At least a lot of the resource pack stuff is in vanilla by now
spare venture
yeah optifine is only worth the shaders now
magic river
Well, I think it still helps a little on Intel stuff from 2015 and such
golden gust
it's much easier to offer something which people can show off
spare venture
and custom entities
golden gust
Well, in the limited case of optifine
spare venture
fabric mods are far superior
magic river
Right, people install it for all the features instead of the perf
tropic flame
These days optifine doesn't even make the game run faster
i still use potato and with optifine game go brrrrrr
so it definitely still does
magic river
Try Sodium
golden gust
Lets take paper, however, outside of paywalling our builds, there is very little that we could magically offer to get people to pay
worthy geode
Bedrock has custom entities, so I am hopeful Java will get them as well
spare venture
maybe in 5 years
celest coyote
I hear the new intel gpu card is pretty good
tropic flame
Try Sodium
I'd try if my gpu didn't throw access violation in any version since 1.15