ah ok
#general
lavish nova
limber knotBOT
ah, nice, thanks for that.
lavish nova
But yeah I'm hoping it will be a good thing
vernal moth
Idk, it's just a big move to quit and start new
lavish nova
Getting a few marketplace partners behind it from a building standpoint as well will be a big resouce boost
limber knotBOT
[19:29:11] [Server thread/INFO]: Gamerule doDaylightCycle is now set to: false
nice.
vernal moth
Especially since I have a really good job generally, save and stuff
And I think Minecraft is rather voilatile
lavish nova
Yeah game industry is tough and has ups and downs
vernal moth
So Minecraft as a hobby is the better choice I think
lavish nova
we're also fully EULA compliant so not like we have millions to throw around lol
vernal moth
Yeah I think it's kinda different for hypixel since they are like way bigger than you guys, right?
vernal moth
But I always viewed you as more progressive
left swift
.ask
limber knotBOT
If you have a question, please just ask it. Don't look for staff or topic experts. Don't ask to ask or ask if people are awake or available. Just ask the question to the channel straight out, and wait patiently for a reply.
lavish nova
aww thanks
void void
is there plugin for minecraft premium users when they change their names they can do /import {oldusername}
lavish nova
Us, Mineplex and Hypixel used to be fairly competitive against each other and at our peak we were just about no 1 in the EU
void void
for cracked minecraft servers
left swift
vernal moth
We don't support cracked servers
void void
I asked if there is
lavish nova
But we had a few tough years, focussed on Bedrock and so Java wasn't our focus for a while
we've had a bit of a resurgance this year and refocussed on Java and seen a good amount of improvement
I think our difficulty is we have one network with three platforms: 1.8, 1.9+ and Bedrock
and as always with a large and old codebase it's hard to make super fast progression in any one direction
vernal moth
Maybe I will reconsider my choices, doesn't help that I have a half year notice period, lol
void void
vernal moth
Well, I work as an insurance, old codebases are nothing new to me, I touched code before that was written before I was born 😂
lavish nova
oh man
vernal moth
It was Cobol, I only did that for a month
lavish nova
main thing we need at the moment is anticheat devs
vernal moth
Our java env is actually fairly progressive, we move to open shift 3 years ago, everything is now docker
tropic flame
@void void check FastLogin, it doesn't work retroactively but once it's installed you won't need to transfer stuff when a premium player changes their name
vernal moth
I will prolly never get into that. Not because it's hard, but because the community
Don't really want to deal with that, trying to play catch and mouse with ppl, etc
lavish nova
yeah there are like 5-6 clients out there with cube specific profiles
it's.. frustrating
vernal moth
I can imagine
void void
Hey guys, whenever I start my server, it says that there are 0 spawn chunks loaded
how can i fix this?
vernal moth
But I mean, I also really don't want mojang to waste time on that
They have bigger issues to tackle
Which we as a community can't really fix
grand pewter
lol anticheat is obviously a big pita to work on
its basically edge cases - the plugin
cant imagine doing it
mental sandal
vernal moth
Always
vernal moth
Because kids
lavish nova
can confirm
vernal moth
And because that's what the Minecraft community evolved into
lavish nova
skids are out to play
grizzled shale
oh
left swift
I blame 1.8
vernal moth
And that's not even the worst this community does
grizzled shale
ay its back
livid falcon
lavish nova
but yeah in terms of NukkitX the main challenge is working out a way to guide the project
engaging with developers and users alike to build a good and useful product
vernal moth
I mean, just knowing that it's backed by a company now makes it saved to build a platform on
lavish nova
yes - there has been a lot of churn in the bedrock community
ornate spindle
will be interesting to see where it goes, last time I checked nukkit, it was a hot mess
ornate spindle
I think I checked around when 1.13 was in beta, idk what it was called specifically on bedrock edition
lavish nova
i remember a few years ago not being able to even get the server starting
ornate spindle
damn
how does performance fair from java edition?
since pocketmine obviously can't do much and I know that MiNET can apparently hold 1k players per instance
lavish nova
im not sure tbh
latent valve
@heady spear soo how u doing? Wanna go to the bar? 
jagged egret
Is there a way to disable the timeout on the minecraft client
grizzled shale
i believe there is a option for time out in paper yml or spigot yml or server prop
jagged egret
not the same, I'm looking to change the client's
i.e. if the server stops responding to the client's packets, I want to be able to stay connected indefinitely
tropic flame
At some point the server would just drop the connection and stop caring about you though
Idk how that is beneficial
Both client and server have their timeouts
jagged egret
that's now what I'm asking tho @tropic flame , the server is hotswapped and paused :P
tropic flame
Oh
jagged egret
and I got rid of the server timeouts already hah
tropic flame
I see
jagged egret
ye
tropic flame
Well I don't know about the Minecraft source code but I believe it is hardcoded
green turret
Viper just Google it and spend 3 hours trying to figure out where to paste the 500 different StackOverflow snippets you find. Easy.
limber knotBOT
iso2013: well forge has a -Dfml.readTimeout=60 startup argument, could try that xD
green turret
Isn't FML short for Forge Minecraft Loader?
limber knotBOT
*Mod
green turret
Probably not gonna work in the vanilla client eh :P
limber knotBOT
that's why I said that he could try forge
green turret
Oh I thought you meant just the flag
@jagged egret if you do figure it out, please ping me. I like the debugger and I hate that I can't just have the client wait around indefinitely while I'm stepping through breakpoints.
twilit frigate
Yo does anyone know a good plugin i can use for sellwands? the one's i've been using just don't work lmao i can't hook it up to ShopGUI+
cosmic raft
limber knotBOT
(DiscordBot) Trance Melody Ep8 - length 51m 46s - 3 views - Trance Panther on 2020.05.02
stiff yarrow
@jagged egret you'd have to modify both server and client and the client might go out of sync
stiff yarrow
is there a way to clean a bathroom sink that isn't a pain in the ass
limber knotBOT
don't use it
neat thicket
celest coyote
jagged egret
i has question
private long compress(int x, int z) {
return ((long) x) | (((long) z) << 32);
}
this returns the same thing for compress(-5, 10) and compress(-5, 3)
jagged egret
Oh really? O.o
static badge
to prevent the sign from bleeding into the upper 32 bits
jagged egret
Right
static badge
signed logic is dumb and comes with these stupidities 
jagged egret
cheers m8
was spending forever trying to figure out why it wasn't loading information from my database properly (loading from each chunk), but it turns out I was actually loading it right just overwriting it with the next same chunk with the same negative x value
dreamy mango
cosmic raft
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TyATgyAC8-M
pulsar wigeon
why is that pinned here
go back to #music
smh
this is why we can't pin important things
static badge
mfw moderators
pulsar wigeon
dum project devs spamming up the pins with rando shit
static badge
mods are dumber change my mind
pulsar wigeon
idc if mods are dumber or not
that doesn't change that kashike's dumb pin is now blocking out my more useful one
cosmic raft
:)
latent valve
Music is better than info
jagged egret
why does a block piston retract event fire three times
haughty vapor
Hey, I made a video tutorial for plugin installation
I'd love if someone could give me as much feedback as possible
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vIcIoCIeGhc
limber knotBOT
(DiscordBot) Minecraft detailed Windows server tutorial #12 - Bukkit/Spigot/Paper - Everything about plugins - length 44m 11s - 4 views - avi12 on 2020.05.02
pulsar wigeon
windows server
haughty vapor
What are you trying to say with this?
celest coyote
Use linux👍
haughty vapor
I love Linux as well, but I can't deny that the majority of desktop users are using Windows
dapper nacelle
even Microsoft uses linux for most of their servers
haughty vapor
Linux is the king in the server side
Not in the desktop consumer side, though
haughty vapor
It rules in mobile indirectly
upper flicker
mfw someone posts a windows thing here and everyone has to argue winders
haughty vapor
Watch & give me some feedback 😄
pulsar wigeon
i dunno maybe we should ban you for advertising your video :^)
haughty vapor
I've worked hard on the video, more than a week straight
static badge
windows works great tbh
haughty vapor
i dunno maybe we should ban you for advertising your video :^)
@pulsar wigeon
Well, it's advertisement for Paper, so it's a good thing, no?
jagged egret
when would >> 4 not be the same as / 16 .-.
haughty vapor
windows works great tbh
@static badge
Windows is a broken OS
New Fluid Design apps live together with legacy apps
For example, literally 2 applications that manage settings
cosmic raft
static badge
yeah I don't really care about that
left swift
jagged egret
D: why is this so annoying lol i should know this stuff ;-;
static badge
I'm only pissed off they removed aero and that's about it
win32 aside windows is fine for just using things
pulsar wigeon
win32 
void void
i personally didn't like aero
too fancy
pulsar wigeon
one level above leaf
wide chasm
hides in Windows 7
left swift
Pretty low
static badge
wiz you're below
left swift
Almost as low as my iq
static badge
like way below
void void
upper flicker
not the place for whatever that shit is
cunning raft
jfc
pulsar wigeon
well ok then
limber knotBOT
irc never forgets
void void
stiff yarrow
linux desktop is pretty good in 2020 idk what you smoking @void void
static badge
ah yes drivers
upper flicker
its pretty good for people like us
static badge
something the everyday user should have to deal with
upper flicker
Ive not had to deal with a driver since I got rid of nvidia
and thats entirely nvidias fault
stiff yarrow
my amd gpu got delayed to monday 😿
static badge
nvidia isn't bad on windows
static badge
what do they do on windows that's bad
cunning raft
you need an account for fuckin drivers
static badge
is that recent?
cunning raft
geforce experience?
static badge
cuz like no never had to do that
pulsar wigeon
that's not drivers
static badge
yeah not drivers
upper flicker
it is for normies
stiff yarrow
installing drivers on arch linux is probably easier than windows when you consider stuff like yay/aur
pulsar wigeon
geforce experience is a load of extra trash
that nvidia convinces retards like you to install apparently
cunning raft
wiz 
void void
what i meant by failure is that windows dominates desktop, not linux
pulsar wigeon
really what
upper flicker
wiz literally everyone has geforce experience installed that isnt you
and uses it to update their drivers
pulsar wigeon
yikes
cunning raft
^
upper flicker
gotta think about the normies
static badge
oh shit
pulsar wigeon
lots of retards i guess
cunning raft
just easier idc
static badge
here I thought googling "nvidia gpu drivers" brought me to the non-retarded page
pulsar wigeon
ok but either way, you don't need an account
and you don't need geforce experience
so your previous statement was false
static badge
in any fucking case creating some dumb account is less of an L to take than whatever the fuck linux has going for it
pulsar wigeon
that's all i was trying to say
cunning raft
thought it did ¯_(ツ)_/¯
upper flicker
yeah and windows 10 doesnt necessarily update itself randomly
if you go through and tell it not to and do a bunch of shit no one normal would ever do
static badge
oh no
pulsar wigeon
thought i did what
upper flicker
your point is idiotic because the default is user hostile
static badge
yeah windows update is pepega
cunning raft
remember that awesome time it deleted files 
stiff yarrow
spotted are you hating on something you probably haven't used
does it bring you joy
pulsar wigeon
[5:48 PM] Josh (JRoy): you need an account for fuckin drivers
this is false. that's literally my only point. idk what the debate is over
cunning raft
wiz i thought you did jfc
pulsar wigeon
inb4 ubuntu not real linux
void void
that was when windows pushed a beta without people signing up for a beta
pulsar wigeon
you thought i did what
cunning raft
omfg
pulsar wigeon
oh, "you" in general as needing an account
cunning raft
the english language is fucking stupid
cunning raft
I'm gonna stop talking about this before I sound more stupid
stiff yarrow
only dev on windows if you have to 
static badge
all my dev is on windows 
blissful harbor
void void
just run a vm
cunning raft
gaming on linux tho
upper flicker
proton 
cunning raft
does it work well
void void
minecrafts fine on linux, what more do you need
upper flicker
for most stuff yes
stiff yarrow
gaming on linux is actually not awful these days
wide chasm
Tried using Ubuntu, but idk Windows felt better I guess
void void
ubuntu is a toy
upper flicker
actually it runs some older stuff that doesnt run on windows now
stiff yarrow
I didn't like ubuntu but I love arch
upper flicker
it still doesnt like games with aggressive anticheat though
but neither do I so I havent hit that one
static badge
ripperino valentarino
void void
i love ubuntu mate
wicked birch
Going to Fedora all the way once I save up for a R7 3700x and just run a VM for windows apps
twin lagoon
fedora is horrible
upper flicker
fedora is great, youre wrong
stiff yarrow
fedora is great
static badge
fedora
stiff yarrow
twin lagoon
i kinda like it but i don't like having to manually install 90% of my applications
static badge
only neckbeards like fedoras
twin lagoon
because they're not in copr user repositories
wicked birch
I had issues with Deb/Ubuntu with Nvidiot Prime. Fedora just needed an enviroment variable lmao
twin lagoon
or in the official repos
upper flicker
the only distro I havent had that problem on is arch
stiff yarrow
yeah
twin lagoon
if i had to choose a non-arch distro it would be pop!_os
stiff yarrow
arch is the best for being a lazy piece of shit
void void
first linux os i used was arch. except i was 8 so how do you think that went
i learn a lot about linux from arch, but god i was stupid
stiff yarrow
raged when nvidia drivers didn't work? idk
upper flicker
and now ubuntu 20.04 is going full snap 
twin lagoon
oh ubuntu is fucking retarded
upper flicker
so guess Im going to have to start recommending debian
twin lagoon
always has been
their snapd is just aids
it's one of the reasons i don't recommend ubuntu server
stiff yarrow
what's snap
wicked birch
Not really rage with Nvidia Drivers, just annoyed lol. Using primusrun instead of an env variable
void void
another package manager thing
static badge
is that where half of the shit disappears
twin lagoon
pop!_os is great
static badge
is snap some dumb thanos reference
upper flicker
only when we're talking about leafs
void void
damn i still haven't watched endgame
twin lagoon
of course they're pushing it on ubuntu
cunning raft
"snapcraft"
ornate spindle
so many package managers now of days
upper flicker
snapcraft is basically canonical's answer to flatpak
ornate spindle
need a package manager for these package managers
twin lagoon
yes
upper flicker
its not like trying to be apt or dnf or pacman
static badge
what's wrong with snap? just another package manager?
twin lagoon
it's not a package manager
stiff yarrow
pacman/yay master race
twin lagoon
snaps / flatpaks both have the same issues
static badge
volume mounts
upper flicker
flatpaks run much faster than snaps
static badge
what kind of pepega is using volume mounts
ornate spindle
swupd is by far the most cancerous package manager to use
upper flicker
Im fine with flatpak most of the time
some stuff doesnt play well but usually thats a packaging issue, not flatpak
void void
i just use apt or synaptic if i'm confused
static badge
gg gotta find a new linux os to use
twin lagoon
ubuntu at it's finest
stiff yarrow
arch is the final form of linux
ornate spindle
arch is gaining popularity it seems
vernal moth
Fedora ftw
void void
that better be repo dependent
static badge
tell me again about how good linux is
stiff yarrow
back to studying gradle docs 
static badge
"gotta try out 50 variations of it"
void void
it's awesome
twin lagoon
arch is still the easiest distro out there imo
upper flicker
oh dont get me wrong
ubuntu with shitty snaps is still a better development environment than windows
void void
arch is not the easiest when you're a noob
upper flicker
its just not as good as the others 😉
ornate spindle
Fedora is quite nice, except for the fact it doesn't support my craptop anymore
void void
it's horrible then
twin lagoon
disagreed
static badge
windows is a great dev environment change my mind
void void
really, tell that to 8 year old me
upper flicker
youre wrong, we've covered it and moved on
twin lagoon
the hardest part is the installation guide for noobs and you have installers for that if you're that lazy
ornate spindle
I tried installing arch on my laptop, ended up giving up
waxen panther
Arch has the best neofetch logo and thats whats most important
twin lagoon
wsl2 is ok
wide chasm
I used Ubuntu for Assembly dev. so I might dislike it partly because of that :)
static badge
"windows is great" "kek just use linux on windows"
green turret
All I've ever heard about Arch is that it's for people who like to spend 80 % of their time messing with config files. Is that not the case?
void void
if young me couldn't figure out arch, most people won't
static badge
fucking windows god dman it
upper flicker
"hey guise we cant get developers to tolerate our operating system, what we do? Should we fix it?"
"Nah just duct tape on linux"
static badge
stiff yarrow
the only part of arch that wasn't super easy was installing it
its basically an easier ubuntu tbh
twin lagoon
once you get through the arch installation part
easiest shit there is if you have the yay aur wrapper
void void
desktop environments are always annoying to install somehow
i always mess them up
doesn't matter if arch or debian
twin lagoon
upper flicker
on arch its pretty easy because dependency management does all the work for you if you just want a simple env
want vanilla KDE/gnome? Install the main de package and let dependency management grab everything else
stiff yarrow
arch 
upper flicker
tbh the bootloader is the thing most people seem to trip up on
which is always fun
twin lagoon
systemd-boot
green turret
I thought that was how it worked with apt and yum as well though?
void void
oh yeah arch fails on my old laptop completely, some gpu driver stuff
twin lagoon
yum
upper flicker
most of the time
static badge
gpu drivers
stiff yarrow
arch has a very active user repo
upper flicker
but most of the time you arent installing desktop environments on those systems
void void
like grub doesn't even render properly
upper flicker
you just get the one you want
twin lagoon
the AUR is the best part of arch
vestal jasper
I've found arch to be insanely easy to used vs Ubuntu. Probably helps that I installed what I wanted instead of having to learn what Ubuntu comes with.
green turret
Ahh I see.
void void
like i declare defeat on an os when the boot loader can't even render text properly
stiff yarrow
the arch wiki has a guide on how to do most things and usually aur packages do it for you
upper flicker
I havent seen that on anything
I know grub had issues with hidpi for a while, but it seems like they just rendered it at 2x and called it good to fix it
vestal jasper
Arch wiki 
void void
my old craptop does that, pentium n3540
golden gust
I've honestly been screwing around with those scripts for deploying arch VMs locally
upper flicker
try a different one then I guess
void void
i'll admit tho, arch wiki is holy grale
green turret
Most of my Linux experience is with servers. I've always had bad luck with desktop Linux. Nothing seems to be consistent and everything UI is ugly.
twin lagoon
speaking of UI
void void
most UIs are ugly in linux unfortunately
void void
no it's horrible
upper flicker
solus's DE, gnome, and every once in a while I see elementary and like pantheon
twin lagoon
gnome's default theme is nice too now
stiff yarrow
isn't ubuntu just gnome
twin lagoon
with the latest version
upper flicker
but then I remember they're designers so they have the apple thing going
stiff yarrow
I don't remember it then
twin lagoon
void void
parrotsec theming is king
waxen panther
With servers I normally go with debian, I have arch on my laptop and desktop though
twin lagoon
their new theme yaru ^^
upper flicker
you can chuck it on whatever
ornate spindle
I really wish I could use linux as my daily driver
velvet belfry
stiff yarrow
gnome has had some sick updates lately
twin lagoon
more up to date screenshot
yeah gnome is doing great now
better performance, no more memory leaks
upper flicker
I dont particularly like yaru, but its better than the old one they had
twin lagoon
adwaita has a nice design update
upper flicker
arc-dark was really nice but after like 14 forks and maintainers it seems like its dead now
idk
void void
i think i use arc-dark
void void
this theming rules for me
upper flicker
I cant do gnome2
static badge
whatever that is it looks good
upper flicker
otherwise the theme itself is nice
wicked birch
Damn that wallpaper lit
twin lagoon
thought it was XFCE at first
void void
it's parrotsec, tho you can put the theme on ubuntu mate
void void
i thought that was chromeos for a moment
anything with the small bar in bottom middle makes me think of chromeOs or macOs
void void
docks are a big no for me
twin lagoon
but there's small issues with it
upper flicker
I like docks but I dont like the themes that copy over macos traffic lights
twin lagoon
and if i want to use macos i have to tweak it for atleast 6 hours before it's usable
upper flicker
tbh if linux DE's wanna copy something useful from macOS, I'd kill for a global menu bar at the top
like unity of old
void void
i've actually come to find the traffic light things pleasing, it's less instrusive than having icons
upper flicker
rather than gnome and everyone's stupid fucking hamburger buttons
lean summit
upper flicker
yeah but it doesnt work super well OOB
ubuntu used to have to patch a ton of apps to get it working
because gtk wasnt built for it
void void
just use a terminal multiplexer then
upper flicker
idk what that has to do with what I said
void void
no hamburger buttons if there aren't any buttons
upper flicker
lol
actually tbh if someone made a macOS DE that worked as well as the real thing, but had it on top of arch I'd probably give them lots of money
thatd be just fine, pls no sue
void void
i should rebrand something and tell Z i made it
knotty radish
green turret
Is there a program for Linux that works like Spotlight on macOS? I use that thing all the time for opening programs, simple math, exchange rates, unit conversion etc.
upper flicker
yes there are many clones of it
void void
question is if they're good
minor badge
theres stuff like rofi and drun for apps
upper flicker
well spotlight's biggest positive is that the search is so good
and thats not really spotlight's thing as much as all the metadata literred all over to support it
minor badge
the rest idk tho, never had to use it without access to a terminal (super+return and i'm off)
upper flicker
they all do web searches, conversions, random extensions, etc fine
I seem to remember some not doing filesearches as well
but gnome and KDE both have pseudo indexer things now one could probably hook into
dunno, have to try one now and see I guess
green turret
Yes! Do it!
minor badge
just hackintosh n00b
upper flicker
oof
if youre gonna hackintosh, just make sure you buy the hardware with that intent
minor badge
i should look into ryzentoshing again
void void
just do a vm
upper flicker
its a pain to do after the fact if you happen to have gotten something wrong
minor badge
mine was (surprisingly!) compatible lol
bought ryzen + radeon because cheap and good, and also happened to work epicly with macOS Vanilla
green turret
Well I'm running Hackintosh on my desktop. But I'm worried about the next work laptop. The current MacBook lineup is awful and expensive.
upper flicker
I have a 2017 macbook pro and Im just lucky I havent had the damn keyboard issue
it's actually ran really really well
green turret
My late 2013 MBP is starting to suck. 8 GB memory is rough :(
upper flicker
but apple keeps making weird choices while seemingly letting the frontend to wither
minor badge
i'm happy with void atm
upper flicker
so Ive thought about selling it and picking up a thinkpad or something
minor badge
still needa get another 16gb ram tho
upper flicker
especially now that they ship with fedora
so you know they dont do any weird shit with the wifi or the drivers
void void
lenovo thinkpads are good, nothing beats lenovo as far as i'm concerned
at least in my budget ha
green turret
Last time I checked, the 16 GB ThinkPads were pretty pricy. Maybe it's just because of coronavirus though.
upper flicker
tbh whatever I get is going to be pricy
severe hornet
upper flicker
I pretty much buy them such that I can use them for whatever if my desktop dies
so that means dedicate gpu, lots of ram, higher end cpu, nice screen, etc
and then you want that in a device thats not 50lbs and the price skyrockets
green turret
Oh yes
void void
any desktop is a laptop if you're brave enough
minor badge
i mostly run in vim so no need for smth stronk 😳
slow shale
void void
i'm personally not that brave
upper flicker
precision/xps from dell are also in the running, supposedly they do linux fine now as well
but macOS hasnt ticked me off quite enough to drive me there yet
its still miles better than winders
void void
i wouldn't bother with buying something specifically with linux, usually as long as it's not horribly out of date or edgey it'll work fine
green turret
The XPS comes in Ubuntu variations that are cheaper than the Windows ones.
void void
cpu support is great, it's mostly gpu that might cause a headache
upper flicker
although I recently had to reinstall it as case-insensitive because I kept running into stupid apps that wouldnt handle case-sensitive right
thats what I get for deviating from the defaults
dear app devs, your shit shouldnt require case insensitive filesystems in 2020
void void
wait filesystems can be case-insensitive
upper flicker
in macOS and Windows they are
macOS lets you reinstall it as case sensitive but lolno app devs
void void
i gotta find out if i can do that on debian
static badge
ah yes
void void
that'd be awesome
static badge
case insensitive file systems
green turret
What? My macOS is case sensitive?
static badge
do I even need to
void void
well i don't want case sensitive
upper flicker
I dont know that many will support you changing that
and I know most developers on linux will laugh you out of their support channel if you do
upper flicker
change your autocomplete settings in your shell
bashrc zshrc
they can all make tab complete case insensitive
without screwing the whole fs
void void
yep that's sounds like a much better idea
restive maple
upper flicker
@green turret not unless you reinstalled it that way on purpose
restive maple
^ We have that because Timings (yes, Paper timings v2) tends to think all mobs in the world are Citizens NPCs
static badge
we gonna get info on why timings is bad?
restive maple
which fundamentally amounts to: it's not a profiler, but people think it's a profiler
green turret
Hmm
full pilot
restive maple
Timings works as a first step towards researching an issue but it's inaccurate it odd cases like Citizens, and either way can't actually be used to actually find the problem if there is an underlying problem
... at least for cases like Citizens where NMS is heavy
golden gust
Paper literally just grabs the class name of the entity
restive maple
I honestly don't work with projects that stick to the regular API level nearly enough to know how useful or not it is with those
static badge
there are some dumb bugs in timings where it can incorrectly show some timings
restive maple
but with NMS-heavy stuff, timings breaks down
grabs the class name of the entity which is Citizens' class names if Citizens is on the server (or used to be? idk if we changed that for 1.15 or not)
static badge
it grabs it per entity instance
restive maple
but either currently or in the recent past, that was required due to how the entity registry worked
green turret
What the hell, you're right Z.
restive maple
no I mean, all vanilla mobs are the Citizens class
but the Citizens class is a blank passthrough if it's not linked to an NPC
green turret
I could have sworn that wasn't always the case (heh).
upper flicker
its been that way since next
golden gust
could look at using the timings API to just clarify that better
green turret
It's weird because there was a time when someone renamed a folder in a git repo. Only the casing changed. The two Windows folks at work had lots of issues getting things sorted out. I had no such issues.
I attributed that to case sensitivity. Must have been something else then?
upper flicker
windows and macos are both case insensitive but case preserving systems
there may be some hiccup in how windows handles that case preservation vs macos
golden gust
Yea, that's case insensitivy causing issues
upper flicker
or just a different implmenetation
green turret
Yeah could be that git just behaves properly on macOS and not on Windows?
void void
oh this case insensitive tab is a god send
static badge
I'm looking at the impl for timing entity ticks, and I'm seeing that it does read class names per entity object instance
golden gust
Wonder if adobe installs on case sensitive FSes yet 😄
upper flicker
it could go all the way done to some god awful win32 api
weary quarry
static badge
and then spawn them
upper flicker
sounds like theyre doing some weird entity registration trick where everything becomes a citizens mob
even if its not really doing anything
static badge
oh that'd do it
upper flicker
which is pure pepega
but if thats what has to be done to get vanilla to play nice
thats what it is
restive maple
it's an awful kludge but it is (or was) required
I vaguely recall that being patched finally in 1.15 but am not sure at all
Also the bot message itself re: timings is overstating it, but like... if I have a message telling users that MC 1.8 works but they should maybe update, they'll tell me to screw off and they're staying on 1.8. Give the slightest inch and dumb users take a mile of emptybrain space. If the message said hey timings is great and all but we really need a spark report, they say "no here's my timings plis fix perf now"... gotta tell em timings is absolutely useless and a profiler is the only option
upper flicker
I get it
only issue is then they come in here and lose their shit at us
that is one of the tamer interactions where people just fish for bait for some flame
restive maple
... oh, has that happened?
static badge
playing pong with the users 
upper flicker
"hey mcmonkey said u guys r bad, u gonna hit him back?"
golden gust
There is a timings lib for ez throwing your own handlers in to clarify stuff much better to users
upper flicker
it just leads to drama
I would appreciate it if you could find some way to reword that a bit, but if not I mean we don't really hate you or anything, its just dumbass users
minor badge
tacos suck, u gonna hit me back?
upper flicker
yes
restive maple
I could probably mitigate that by specifying more than it's near-useless for Citizens issues not useless in general
golden gust
It would save so many headaches for us and plugin devs if they took advantage of that, especially for plugins which do things like throwing commands around and stuff
full pilot
tacos suck, u gonna hit me back?
You monster.
void void
i persoanlly think tacos would be better if they weren't in that shell, like that shell makes them so much harder to eat
minor badge
im a cauliflower soup kinda gal
full pilot
Bruh, tacos come soft too
void void
and they're great then
golden gust
I mean, That's basically proxi... If you've been around here for long enough... you know know how much of a monster it really is
upper flicker
run while you still can, lest you end up stuck here forever like the rest of us
minor badge
at least my fur dont do a stinky stanky >:(
void void
you haven't lived if you haven't had polish split pea soup
minor badge
noo not my flattened mikro D:
warped spear
will paper run on GraalVM?
upper flicker
It did last someone tried
minor badge
doesnt it already
upper flicker
if you run into some weird graal specific issue youre kinda on your own though
minor badge
hey my custom jvm written in clojurescript has this issue with loading paper??
timid quartz
warped spear
just tryna think of ways to make java not run like shit
warped spear
issue is bedrock edition is sucky
and when Im coding stuff it will be a cold day in hell before I choose java for my projects
usually using rust these days
its so fast I love it
vestal jasper
"It's not the tool it's how you use it"
static badge
minor badge
rust or bust
static badge
new languages are kinda monkaW tbh
vestal jasper
87 additions and 587 deletions.
minor badge
good night boys 😤
warped spear
@golden gust garbage collectors = lame and slow
give me control of the memory god damnit
jagged egret
the piston move event is annoying
golden gust
GC is far from the issue with mc servers
jagged egret
why does the piston retract event have to fire three times?
warped spear
I wish they would open source java edition
static badge
and so are md69's maintenance capabilities
warped spear
then someone could fork it and unfuck it
static badge
oh yeah let's just have a million forks
warped spear
maybe just have one community edition
vestal jasper
I'd pay money to never see the fork of a fork joke again
warped spear
and people contribute to that
void void
warped spear
like ok cool the updated the opengl implementation
except they updated it fucking 2.0
static badge
yeah the thing holding back minecraft fps is definitely the opengl version
and not the really just pepega fucking codebase
warped spear
well its being held back by a lot of things
vestal jasper
cannot stress how retarded mojang code is in 99% of places
warped spear
^
like if they must stick with opengl atleast give us 4.0
that way we can atleast take advantage of modern hardware
full pilot
I feel like the amount of issues in the code base qualifies for rewriting everything before fixing everything.
static badge
yeah telling people to git the latest hardware for minecraft is a good choice to make
warped spear
@static badge opengl 2.0 is from 2004, I hate to break it to you a pc from 2004 wont even run windows 10 let alone a minecraft
static badge
for a fucking block game
warped spear
4.0 is from like 2010
full pilot
@Spottedleaf opengl 2.0 is from 2004, I hate to break it to you a pc from 2004 wont even run windows 10 let alone a minecraftIncorrect.
The top of the line models totally will
Granted, just barely.
vestal jasper
considering money is on the line, getting rid of users is not a choice you just make
restive maple
what are the odds of somebody with a PC from 2004 buying a new game
static badge
mojang has the stats of the userbase
full pilot
The amount of people playing Minecraft on potatoes is staggering.
static badge
they know what percent they would lose
warped spear
who is playing games on a pc from 2004
vestal jasper
I started playing mc on a potato
a good portion of my userbase can't even play mc and have a browser open at the same time
warped spear
please tell me
restive maple
the users that already own minecraft on a PC from 2004 suddenly have to buy bedrock "oh well guess you just gotta give us more money sorry guys"
warped spear
you need a gtx 200 series and later to run opengl 4.0
restive maple
gotta think like a truly evil corporation man
full pilot
😂
golden gust
I remember playing on a machine which I thiiink had opengl 2.3 somewhere early 2010's
full pilot
Oh hey, monkey, you is colorful!
warped spear
if you had hardware from march 2010 or newer you could run something with opengl 4.0
golden gust
Ah, yea, as I got a cheap-ass HD5450 to be able to play portal 2 :L
restive maple
yeah apparently somebody deleted my table I guess
static badge
byebye table
full pilot
if you had hardware from march 2010 or newer you could run something with opengl 4.0 Don't we discriminate against third world countries enough?
Oh no!
How will you flip the table in anger now?!
granite salmon
(╯°□°）╯︵ ┻━┻
warped spear
if your country doesn't have plumbing how about instead of playing video games you work on that
full pilot
Show off.
😂
if your country doesn't have plumbing how about instead of playing video games you work on thatBruh!
vestal jasper
sorry monkey I stole your table
full pilot
Fuck piping, ok
pulsar wigeon
oh man it's this guy again
full pilot
Which guy?
warped spear
like why not atleast have switch like doom
full pilot
Oic
warped spear
were u can just flip it for modern hardware
instead of making it run shit for everyone
restive maple
PhantomGaming27249Today at 4:06 PM
if you had hardware from march 2010 or newer you could run something with opengl 4.0
^ actually not true iirc
You can use OpenGL versions on hardware from before that version was launched
either due to driver backporting or just by not requiring the subset of new features that are exclusive
warped spear
ok so even better
granite salmon
😂
warped spear
implying mc isn't broken anyway
golden gust
Tbqh, I used to be active around this weird ass physics game back in those days
full pilot
My point exactly
golden gust
I remember there being consistent stupid issues because thx intel GPUs
warped spear
I can atleast have broken at high fps
full pilot
.>
granite salmon
moves between chunk lag spike reee
full pilot
Wonderful, you can render those amazing glitches and broken textures at 200 fps.
warped spear
like I gave them a pass when they were an indie company
they are owned by Microsoft now come on
full pilot
You act like this wasn't some high schoolers project to learn Java with.
golden gust
MS really has no say over stuff going on in mojang HQ
restive maple
there being consistent stupid issues because thx intel GPUs <-- intel integrated GPUs used to be incapable of figuring out any OpenGL newer than 1.x for way longer than makes sense
it was awful
it wouldn't error though, it would just produce entirely wrong results
full pilot
Seems legit
restive maple
invisible models and stuff like that
golden gust
Yea
full pilot
It "worked"
warped spear
list of things they could do to improve performance, a custom jvm for minecraft specifically, a graphics api update, actually taking advantage of modern hardware, proper threading!
full pilot
😂
static badge
a custom jvm
golden gust
The program had some hack to use a more legacy renderer for stuff, but damn did the game speed up when they removed that option
was ouchy af
static badge
holy fucking shit
granite salmon
streams
full pilot
I feel like you want a lot.
golden gust
There are muuuuuch easier gains vs a custom JVM lol
full pilot
😂
restive maple
a custom jvm for minecraft specifically, it's called Java 8
since oracle doesn't want to support it anymore despite the whole world still using it
full pilot
You mean people actually use Java > 9?
restive maple
might as well just pretend Mojang owns it... they distribute their own copy anyway
warped spear
I do
upper flicker
RedHat has you covered
warped spear
if I am doing java stuff
full pilot
My condolences
granite salmon
I use 14 👀
upper flicker
Mojang ships 8u32 or something anyway
warped spear
java 13+ is actually not that bad
static badge
shipping mega outdated java versions
upper flicker
They’ve been off of the release train since before oracle jumped ship
restive maple
RedHat has you covered ooo I just googled that, they're maintaining OpenJDK 8 still... nice!
golden gust
some 5x version now afaik
warped spear
almost as quick as C#
full pilot
Thats legit.
warped spear
like they could take a openjdk 11+ and just rip out anything they dont need
slim it way down
full pilot
....
static badge
and then fuck mods
full pilot
Why, though?
upper flicker
Well that’s how they intend you to use it with modules now
warped spear
^
restive maple
proper threading! <-- who needs proper threading when you can have whatever the hell mojang added in 1.14
upper flicker
If mods need other stuff, just unpack it and run it with a different version
Wouldn’t be a big deal
full pilot
I hate Java more each passing day
granite salmon
how did they fuck up 1.14 so badly
restive maple
the threading that somehow made performance much worse because they clearly don't know what they're doing
full pilot
😂
upper flicker
Yeah it’s pretty much just for distribution size
warped spear
memory overhead typically
restive maple
java 13+ is actually not that bad
last I checked reflection is megabroke again in latest Java without a workaround yet
there's workarounds up to 12 I think
upper flicker
It’s not going to substantially improve anything if they slim it down versus like actually fixing their damn game
vestal jasper
afaik mojang does use a modified version of j8 due to some random bug they found
warped spear
I didn't mean it as the first line of action
static badge
yeah they need to change their game's code
vestal jasper
which was likely fixed in a later release of j8 or j9+ :^)
warped spear
I just meant it as one of many things they could do to improve performance
warped spear
99% of the codes game is terrible
static badge
or something stupidly high like that
there's no reason to put a second's worth of time into anything else
warped spear
I have literally made higher performance games in fucking pygame
upper flicker
Hey now, now it’s a research assistants java project
granite salmon
Minecraft 2 when
upper flicker
looks at DFU code
full pilot
😂
warped spear
I feel sick when I see how they implemented their graphics "engine"
restive maple
Bedrock is basically Minecraft 2
upper flicker
Never read so many white papers just to feel stupid for a fucking java game
Pretty sure the only one who understands it is the guy who wrote it
static badge
check the commits
upper flicker
And everyone at mojang just copy pastes shit that’s already there
warped spear
java is like the worse possible language to make a game in
restive maple
if they just bothered to not fuck it with the aggressive hypermonetization it would probably even be a pretty good upgrade
full pilot
Bedrock is basically Minecraft 2 With the Minecraft flair of "go f*** yourself" too
Microsoft*
full pilot
(Referringbto said monetization)
static badge
it must all be lost elsewhere
warped spear
like optifine shouldn't need to exists
full pilot
Optifine would exist anyway
restive maple
my favorite part of the minecraft internals is the block hardness calculations
warped spear
optifine doesnt even modify that much and it basically tripples your fps
restive maple
because every material has a configured hardness value... but the code that calculates it just inexplicably hardcodes special cases for obsidian and bedrock
warped spear
optifine is mostly some math speed hacks
full pilot
Duct tape, and bubblegum, monkey
restive maple
like not even handling them differently, just they forgot to remove the hardcoded cases from before they added the material-level setting
full pilot
Duct tape and bubblegum
restive maple
and so my command to freely change block hardness per material just doesn't work for obsidian in particular now
granite salmon
...
warped spear
my favorite thing in the graphics rendering bit is they implement a tesselator for chunks
why just why!
its a fucking cube it doesn't need tesselation
pulsar wigeon
every time i look at this channel i lose brain cells
warped spear
like there are bits in the rendering code that seem like they are just there cause someone got bored and like fuck it let me just add some shit
warped spear
boderless window would be a great feature too
but tesselation is basically useless in a voxel based game
the reason to use it is if your making something round out of polygons
static badge
anyone here who knows graphics who might be able to provide a reason they do
given everything you've said phantom I'm sort of doubting they did it without reason
restive maple
the piston reaction code -> https://i.alexgoodwin.media/i/misc/1f289c.png -> just casually hardcodes obsidian despite there being an EnumPushReaction they could've used
upper flicker
lol
warped spear
like I have tried to figure out a reason they might but I just can't
upper flicker
It’s almost as funny as the http thread pool use for the beacon code
static badge
probably added that in a later diff
warped spear
there is literally no reason to do that in this game
static badge
and just missed that usage
but tbh yeah that's pretty hard to miss if you're doing that
also wtf is it doing that check for after all of the other shit
warped spear
my cs 101 professor used java edition mc as an example of how not to code a game
restive maple
Minecraft is an awful example of how to make a game for a programming class... but Minecraft is a great example of how to make a game in a business class.
static badge
was it the typical flatbrain "cuz it's java" response?
upper flicker
Your cs101 class must’ve been a higher level than mine
restive maple
Don't have any idea what you're doing but have a cool idea? Go figure it out and see if you can make money before anyone realizes you didn't know what you were doing
static badge
suiting for you though
upper flicker
Thanks babe
warped spear
This was a while ago but she did a lesson on game coding
static badge
ur welcome
warped spear
Rn taking a computer architecture class and loving it
Also a deep learning class which is pretty fun too
upper flicker
Nice, my compiler class was also a blast.
static badge
you know how to build a compiler z?
warped spear
Also a data structures class which has given me ptsd
upper flicker
How are you handling the online stuff versus face to face?
warped spear
its eh
upper flicker
Yeah leaf I compile all the leaves into a pile and then light it on fire
static badge
wtf
warped spear
so for whatever reason the data structures class was taught in java
it gave me an aneurism at points
once assignment we were only allowed to use tailed recurssion
despite this though
java doesn't support tailed recursive optimizations like wtf
warped spear
tailed recursion
static badge
yes I know
warped spear
it was
extreme cancer
worse assignment though was coding a self balancing avl tree
that still gives me nightmares
static badge
tree's would be interesting to learn
warped spear
self balancing avl trees are hell
restive maple
java doesn't support ... optimizations like wtf fixed for ya
warped spear
I hate the syntax of java too
like why does a fucking print statement need System.out.println
thats so much shit
tropic flame
Doesnt rust have namespaces like C/C++ though?
static badge
the least of java's issues are with System.out being before println
restive maple
rust is C++ minus the world-destroying vulnerabilities
warped spear
^
tropic flame
std::cout
warped spear
I kinda wanna try writing a high performance jvm out of rust
restive maple
exactly
it should be part of the JVM
as that would mean the generics, y'know... exist at runtime
static badge
if it existed in the jvm they wouldn't exist at runtime
restive maple
and you could have a List<int> instead of needing a wrapper class
er... by JVM I meant ... that thing wot exists between the language and the machine, wot interprets java byte code into machine code
static badge
the biggest problem with making use of primitive generics is that the current generic system is built on using objects
warped spear
I wonder if I could make a mc server file written in rust
static badge
and primitives don't have object properties
sacred delta
warped spear
you know I might try that once school finishes up
considering I am stuck inside during quarantine
upper flicker
That’s okay, runtime generics and inline types will land eventually, we probably won’t be alive to see it, but they’re working on it
restive maple
if you want to horribly mangle a minecraft server, why not do what actually happened for real, and make a pocket edition (or I guess now bedrock?) server in literally php
static badge
wont be alive to see it
upper flicker
I think you meant to say “if you want to get hired by mojang, make a bedrock server in php”
warped spear
is papers source code on github