general

[devout grail]

@simple lion thank you. Do you all recommend Spartan for anti-cheat?

[simple lion]

I am testing matrix first than spartan ... ... Am letting you know what workd - have some hobby hacker and instead of kicking them i committed them to help me securing the server

[woven otter]

red or blue pill then?

[simple lion]

😄

[craggy veldt]

green

[simple lion]

both - thats material for a whole new movie 😄

[craggy veldt]

What are some good plugins you have to Got on your server?

[left swift]

Coreprotect

[craggy veldt]

For spawn protection?

[left swift]

For logging and rollback

U need a spawn protection plugin?

[craggy veldt]

to do that /loggin thing?

yeah

[left swift]

U can use vanilla Minecraft's spawn protect or use world guard

[craggy veldt]

How does vannila/WG work?

[left swift]

Read the world guard plugin info and vanilla spawn protection is a radius you set in the server.properties that makes it so only ops can build or break near spawn

[craggy veldt]

oooh

uuuf

people said i must not touch in permission.yml, what's that?

[steep bronze]

hello there, fellow humans

I'm looking to make a new Minecraft server, but I have not made one in 5 years. I'm seeing online that PaperMC is a great choice for plugins and all that, but I'm not finding any super recent posts about whether the 1.14.4 server is ready yet

Are there any glaring issues atm with the server build, or are they mostly small?

I see that a chunk loading deadlock was fixed a few days ago, which seems like a big deal

[golden gust]

Performance of 1.14 as a whole is kinda bleh

[steep bronze]

I'm also only worried about CPU bound performance

[golden gust]

That was also introduced a few days ago by spigot, not a vanilla issue

Basically, for a handful of players on decent hardware, it's fine; It's when you start pushing it that it starts getting a bit iffy

[steep bronze]

I'm gonna be running the server on a Microsoft Azure server, so I think the server will be running on a Xeon

which is why I'm worried about CPU performance

I have access to 28 GB of RAM though, so I'm good on that front

[proud lance]

CoreProtect is nice, but you need to routinely clean the db or it gets huge

Don't run Minecraft on Azure, its going to be garbage

[golden gust]

That's a point, any reason why azure?

[steep bronze]

Yeah so basically, I got some free Azure credits from work

[proud lance]

unless you have like credits or free hosting

[steep bronze]

I would host it locally, but I'm at uni so I cant port forward

and regardless, my comp is out of commission and has been since a repair shop destroyed it

I'm on a mediocre laptop atm

[golden gust]

Basically, there is no real conclusive answer as to how well it will perform, it pretty much 100% depends on hardware and player count and.. well... some level of luck and will to configure the heck outta it

[steep bronze]

The hardware is probably ok at best, but the player count will be low

probs 10 payers at once maximum

It's just be and a few friends

[golden gust]

Should be fine then assuming the server ain't a toaster

[steep bronze]

I'm just kinda concerned since last server I was running into issues with redstone circuit timings

[golden gust]

1. They have an issue tracker

2. It's a non-issue

[gloomy sphinx]

but my performance!

[golden gust]

...

[gloomy sphinx]

but the event is Deprecated. "Server performance will be affected

[golden gust]

Note the quote marks

It's a generic message, performance will not be impacted

[gloomy sphinx]

i know it will not be impacted

it will be affected

[steep bronze]

Oh yeah also, does anyone know of a plugin which would allow me to run two servers on one computer and have players warp between them? I've seen it on larger servers in the past. I can have the servers running on VMs as well.

[golden gust]

bungeecord or waterfall

They're basically proxies which let players jump between servers

[void void]

neither of them is a plugin, though

ye what cat said ^

[steep bronze]

hmm, are they at least spigot/paperMC/craftbukkit compatible?

[golden gust]

Yes

(Spigot+, CB doesn't have the relevant logic to deal with it)

[steep bronze]

sounds good, I will definetly look into it

I'm just looking for ways to improve performance because I will have a creative world and a survival world

and I don't want a giant redstone computer shitting on everyone's vanilla experience

[golden gust]

I'd recommend running them on seperate servers just for safety reasons anyways

[steep bronze]

I have a microsoft azure server, would VMs work?

[proud lance]

I use Advanced Portals and then players can walk between them, but it depends on how you want to link them

[golden gust]

So long as you can address them on the network, you're good

[steep bronze]

sweet

[proud lance]

yeah you could do 2 VMs, throw the proxy and 1 instance on one VM, then throw the other on its own

[steep bronze]

perfect, I'll look into that for sure

Also, is coreprotect still the way to go for rollbacks and permissions?

[proud lance]

CoreProtect is good for logging and rollbacks

I don't think it does permissions

GriefPrevention or GriefDefender might be better choices for that

[left swift]

Coreprotect and luckperms

[golden gust]

luckperms is the current daddy of perms

[steep bronze]

Is it because it's powerful or easy or both?

[void void]

both

[proud lance]

both and supported by other plugins

[steep bronze]

sweet, I'mma get that

[proud lance]

not all mind you, but a lot of them that implement permissions will also use Luckperms

[golden gust]

Any sane plugin will support LP, because it takes over the built-in permission system, and supports vault

pretty much only bad plugins don't support either

[proud lance]

yep

[steep bronze]

awesome

also, is there something more lightweight than essentials for something like /tpa, /sethome, /home, and /warp?

I'm keeping this very vanilla on the survival world

[left swift]

Those aren't really vanilla-y tho

[proud lance]

I haven't had issues just using just essentialsx and giving permissions to those commands

[steep bronze]

I know, but we've all played mc for like 8-10 years, so we are kinda alright with teleporting back to base instead of walking back through a biome you already explored for 20 mins

I'mma look that up 1 sec

[golden gust]

psh, get a bed, peasants

[left swift]

U don't use nether portals to travel every 5 blocks???!

[golden gust]

But yea, essx is pretty light, just gotta tame the permissions if you wanna cut down on what people can mess with

(The defaults are pretty fine anyways, tbh)

[steep bronze]

I do, but my friends are plebs who don't wanna create Nether highways

[golden gust]

bloody plebs

[steep bronze]

Yeah :p

[left swift]

I'm just messing lol you can do whatever u want to it's ur server

[steep bronze]

thats kinda what I told em

[left swift]

Essx

[steep bronze]

I don't personally wanna use /home since I find it to be kinda cheating

but I have some friends with limited attention spans so yeah :p

I won't rain on their parade just because they don't share the same definition of fun

And yeah, I guess I can just use essx, but there's about 99% of the commands that are useless

I can just disable them, but I would prefer something super lightweight

[golden gust]

alternative i that you try to find a teleport plugin, a warp plugin, and a home plugin

essx has a lot of extra things, but it's 1 plugin which does what 20 individual plugins would do, kinda thing

(also, it has kittycannon)

[steep bronze]

:p alright you got me sold

[proud lance]

its really not that heavy

[static badge]

kittycannon

[steep bronze]

So I'm looking at getting essx, coreprotect, and luckperms

[proud lance]

limitpillagers

if you have pillagers on

I would also recommend illegalstack

[steep bronze]

are they that bad? :p or do they raid when the server is off or something

[proud lance]

theres a bug where spawn endlessly

[golden gust]

they just raid the TPS counters

in other news, am go lie down

[steep bronze]

alright ill get that then

[proud lance]

the only other thing I would recommend is some sort of mob stacking or farm limiting plugin

[steep bronze]

and thanks for the help electro!

and what do you mean by that?

[proud lance]

to cut back on entities if your friends start shoving 1000 cows in a small pen

[steep bronze]

ahhh, yeah that will 150% happen :p

[proud lance]

yeah that will kill performance

[steep bronze]

does it cull entities or just stack em in a way to improve performance?

[proud lance]

mob stacking will usually put a counter above the entity so if you have like 5 pigs, it will be 1 pig entity, but (Pig x5) usually above it

[steep bronze]

ah, I see

[proud lance]

it feels less vanilla

like visually

[steep bronze]

If you kill the stacked entity, does it kill all 5?

[proud lance]

I think so, depends on the plugin

Farm Limiters usually kill off excess entities

[steep bronze]

I definitely don't want to cull entities

[proud lance]

so if you have 20 pigs in a 5 x 5 area, it might kill anything over like 5 or something

depends on the plugin and settings

[steep bronze]

hmm, I'll probably look into getting that if my friends get too autistic

[proud lance]

It will usually happen

someone who has a turtle hoarding problem will start breeding them

or something

[left swift]

I thought the mob stacking plugin had a memory leak

[steep bronze]

I fully expect it, but at least then I will be able to say that they did this, not me :p

[proud lance]

@left swift which one? theres a few last i looked

[left swift]

The one u pay for I think lol

I don't remember the name it's been awhile

[steep bronze]

I'm assuming worldedit is still the way to go for large world editing?

[left swift]

Yes

[steep bronze]

nice

anyone know the name of the mod that allows you to change the biome of one single block?

[proud lance]

FAWE I think is recommended

[steep bronze]

I'mma look into it

I also need the mod that allows for the cycling of the metadata of one block with a stick

[proud lance]

I dunno if it works for 1.14.4 tbh, but otherwise worldedit works

[left swift]

...coreprotect?

[steep bronze]

I have in mind the plugins that Jamziboy's server had, but I cannot recall the name

I'm not sure that its worldedit

nor coreprotect

[limber knot]

just use the debug stick? 🤔

[steep bronze]

debug stick?

oh this looks cool

have not seen this

ok so this is extremely similar to what I'm thinking of

but this only cycles though the metadatas that minecraft recognises as being in use

I'm gonna be using the conquest texture pack which has textures for all 15 metadatas, even the unused ones

so I need a plugin to cycle through those without having to individually set the block in worldedit

[tawdry coyote]

yeah I wouldn't rely too heavily on the debug stick. Mojang basically introduced it and then was like "we're not going to fix any bugs with this" so 🤷

[steep bronze]

anyone know of a mod that does essentially what the debug stick does but for all metadatas?

[limber knot]

what kind of "unused" metadata? Oo

[steep bronze]

like for example, 98 is a block of stone bricks, but 98:1 is mossy stone bricks

and 95 through 95:15 is all the different colors of stained glass

[limber knot]

these IDs don't exist anymore

[steep bronze]

what

[limber knot]

.g minecraft wiki flattening

(phoenix616) https://minecraft.gamepedia.com/Java_Edition_data_values/Pre-flattening -- Java Edition data values/Pre-flattening – Official...: "This article is about values from Minecraft: Java Edition up to 1.12.2. For values since the Flattening, see Java Edition data values. For values..."

meh, seriously google?

https://minecraft.gamepedia.com/Java_Edition_1.13/Flattening

[steep bronze]

ahhhhhh nooooo

whyyy did they enumerate them

[limber knot]

because it's a lot better than magic numbers

[steep bronze]

so much for memorizing most block ids

like, yeah I guess it is

[limber knot]

(and opens the door for custom block stuff in the future)

[steep bronze]

are the extra metadatas still there though?

[limber knot]

most of the special blocks that were in the game but unobtainable were introduced as their own ones

e.g. all bark logs (or non-bark logs)

[steep bronze]

I did see that, which is nice

but it also removed blocks like the column portal, which was a super cool block in sci fi builds

and it seems to remove alot of blocks I used to use in creative

dang

oh well, I'll adapt

So, is performance between spigot and paperMC equivalent right now?

[limber knot]

i doubt it, especially if you don't have an nvme ssd as paper has async chunk loading

[proud lance]

nah papers way better

[steep bronze]

sweet, imma get paper then

Also, slightly off topic, I have a friend who wants to join but his laptop is a museum piece by now

You guys know of any ways to improve performance?

I know about optifine, but minecraft java arguments or other ideas are welcome

[limber knot]

getting a new laptop?

(might sound like a joke but Minecraft runs extremely bad on older hardware)

[steep bronze]

his dad is a mailman and he can barely afford to be at school even with a partial scholarship

I wish he could

I've looked into donating him some ram from my old laptop, but his laptop has 0 expansion possibility

so I'm really just looking for mods or java args to help him atm

[limber knot]

optifine and disable all eye candy like lighting, shadows, render distance

but it probably wont be fun playing like that xD

[steep bronze]

I might even give him a 16x16 resource pack so I'm really looking for all ideas :p

hes not looking for pretty, just fucntional

[limber knot]

lol

[proud lance]

or be like this dude

solid color for blocks

or just get a raspberry pi 4

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jd6PAe5c4P4

[limber knot]

(DiscordBot) Minecraft 1.14.4 running on Raspberry Pi 4 - length 2m - 77 likes, 2 dislikes (97.5%) - 5,480 views - Mike Hooper on 2019.08.20

[pearl ibex]

@golden gust There's actually a version without Cardi B.

My FPS go down when using ANY resource pack, so i wouldn't recommend using 'em. 🤷

[peak kite]

using non optimized bloated and much more detail textures in ANY game will make the fps drop. maths...

[pearl ibex]

Using 8x8 textures. Smh.

[peak kite]

hmm, it seems the zoom out tiles in dynmap stay unrendered if they initially rendered bad(server crash, etc) and even when I re-rendered the whole map, the zoom out tiles are still black. clearly a purge map is REQUIRED when needing to do a full map re-render. Dynmap needs a function that lets you inititate a re-render of the zoom out tiles. Because when I zoom in, the tiles are there, the zoom out processor just thinks that they were already rendered ok due to a cpu crash or a minecraftserver restart/shutdown during zoom out processing/tile render.

. . ..
There is a .pending file in the dynmap folder when renders of maps are running. It looks goofy, lots of data represented by symbols for processed/not areas. There is no description on that file in documents. Its pretty cool its open source tho.
Hey, i can fix it then.. but one wonders, but the author has not, so how could a java noob be of any use there.

Yea, im using beta6 for my tests.

[simple lion]

@devout grail, matrix detects a few like flying and fast run. It doesn*t detect boat fly and high jump sadly. Next one i test is spartan.

[pearl ibex]

Developing your own anti-cheat plugin is also an option.

[simple lion]

Nice idea - so we need like 20 plugins for one purpose over time? 😉

[pearl ibex]

Idk, not my problem though.

[simple lion]

Good talk 😄

[peak kite]

mysql server / 10 min stop job. You all here talked about mysql server suking..
What would be better?
https://github.com/webbukkit/dynmap/issues/2609

[simple lion]

for what stuff do you need the mysql server? For that dynmap version?

[peak kite]

its for dynmap and other plugins i may want to put into a database

[cosmic raft]

whee

15 minutes

[glacial stratus]

@cosmic raft now we'll go & kidnap you

[limber knot]

ok

[void void]

Anyone wanna help me out with an issue lmfao i got a plugin changing all the player names on a paper server i made to %player_name% and I thinks its either Deluxe Chat, NametagEdit, PlaceholderAPI, or Vault

its probably papi sounds like you dont have the papi extension

i've never used Papi before so i saw the extensions folder but never added anything to it

is it appearing as %player_name% in the chat or where

do this in game /papi ecloud download Player

then chat

yes in the chat

That fixed it

thankyou!

you may want to look at all the possible extensions here: https://github.com/PlaceholderAPI/PlaceholderAPI/wiki/Placeholders

they're on the ecloud: https://api.extendedclip.com/all/

[fallen oracle]

Oh hey

I know that place

[jagged egret]

lol i have an expansion on the ecloud

no idea how to access it anymore ¯_(ツ)_/¯

[void void]

lolwut

did Brianna just join and get instabanned

who is Brianna

Songoda

oh okay, thought it was ZER0 (NotPetya)

[acoustic sphinx]

So is there any disadvantage to using Paper for a vanilla SMP server over the stock Minecraft server?

[void void]

Depends on what you call disadvantages

The only disadvantage is mobs spawn a lot less on paper, but that's for a reason

There are changes in it that make it 'not' vanilla, but it's doubtful that players will notice unless they're diehard mc players

They're changes for performance over anything else

Such as ^ mob spawns

lol sorry tired af

[hallow maple]

Um

I’m not songoda lol.

[void void]

are you leaf?

[hallow maple]

I’m briannastatic

[void void]

and you run songoda and post the songoda plugins, yes

[hallow maple]

I only own 33% of songoda.

[void void]

and your username on spigot was songoda

which is what im referring to

[hallow maple]

That was the teams account?

[void void]

How does one have stocks in bukkit plugins

doesnt change my sentiment?

"33% of Songoda"

[hallow maple]

It’s not my handle though.

[void void]

ok big deal, they asked who you were and most people know you by the name songoda

hence...

[jagged egret]

y'all need to chill none of this matters

[void void]

^

correct

she's only here to start drama yet again

and/or advertise her site

so

[placid thicket]

you ever just eat food then sad cause the food is gone and you want moar?

[void void]

Billy was smart

[hallow maple]

I’m informing you so people know better.

[void void]

No one rlly cares tbh

[hallow maple]

Um, okay sorry.

Why so hostile?

[void void]

simple I wills eats yous

bc Songoda 🚮

@void void not if i eat you first

.kill computercat

[limber knot]

rips off computercat's legs and leaves them to die.

[peak kite]

grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr 😡
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=efs3QRr8LWw

[limber knot]

(DiscordBot) Joe Rogan Experience #1368 - Edward Snowden - length 2h 49m 32s - 127,038 likes, 3,496 dislikes (97.3%) - 2,725,010 views - PowerfulJRE on 2019.10.23

[void void]

are you flaming joe or edward

[peak kite]

neither

[void void]

why are you growling then

[peak kite]

u watch it?

[void void]

no

[peak kite]

quote at 1 hour exactly.

[void void]

why is the title of that video so narc, like advertising names and highlighting the high video number instead of actually describing the video

nice, now im being pmed by the dramacore ultra

[jagged egret]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z3IPVWN-1ks lol this is probably my new favorite video

[limber knot]

(DiscordBot) How ISPs Violate the Laws of Mathematics - length 6m 8s - 65,497 likes, 3,441 dislikes (95.0%) - 1,662,319 views - minutephysics on 2019.03.01

[void void]

custom firmware for xbox dvd drive to skip over bad parts of dvd quicker instead of retrying to read it? like for really scratched discs

oh noes

I blocked minutephysics

[acoustic sphinx]

@void void Are the changes to the mod spawn rate (and others?) configurable?

[void void]

Yes they all are

[acoustic sphinx]

Alright, thanks for the help man :)

[void void]

No problem

[merry talon]

when asked about battery percentage google assistant just tells me to look at the top right of the screen

like.. if I could do that why would I be asking you

[limber knot]

Strange. Google assistant on my headphones can read me my battery status

I think it's the status of my headphones tho

I guess apps can't read that info 🤷‍♂️

[limber knot]

"Except for the headline, this story has not been edited by **** staff and is published from a syndicated feed."

News sites in 2019

"what did you do at work today?" "Writing click bait headlines for borderline fake news posts!"

[jagged egret]

MiniDigger apps definitely can read battery level, MacroDroid does without any root or adb hack

[limber knot]

Maybe they just don't want to request a million permissions to not cater paranoia, idk 🤷‍♂️

Ok no, the Google app has a bazillion permissions too

https://developer.android.com/training/monitoring-device-state/battery-monitoring#java

Added in API 21 🤷‍♂️

(5.0)

[peak kite]

Studying the minecraft earth map. I looked into the south where the land is always cold, and i thought wait it gets cold much farther north... .... 23 degrees of tilt is all it takes to make that change.
So what is that in size of movement... well how large is the earth.

does that mean the window of freezing to death and burning to death is actually smaller than the earth?

Perhaps the tilt is the factor. if no tilt, would the equator burn, and the poles freeze? Whats the perfect tilt? Is our tilt ideal for the amount of radiation from the sun?

dang i would need to do maths to figure that out.

Lets see, the 23.44 degree tilt times two 46.88 total arc, we need the Arc radius forumula my good sir. plus some earth data...
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/6/61/AxialTiltObliquity.png

https://www.mathopenref.com/arcradiusderive.html

[limber knot]

earths rotation is actually rather interesting

[peak kite]

And I won't even start on the obliquity is decreasing... and how that affects ... like ... everything... nope .

[static badge]

considered that the orbit is not circular

if you're caring about the tilt of the earth gotta consider that too

orbit around the sun specifically

[peak kite]

true..

so many maths.

[static badge]

whether some of the sun is blocked by mercy :>

[peak kite]

see now if we tilt that beetch just right, it will be an earth too! lets NUKE IT.

oh don't think yer gettin outta this nukathon MARS, ... nuke soup for YOU!. we want tilt!

See its thumbs up down for the NUKEATHON.
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/2/29/Planet_axis_comparison.png

oh wait... earth has a thumbs up.

i mean its thumbs down for nukeathon.. VENUS yer next.

Time to put on my math hat.. because how dare you just seems kinda pointless.
https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/2693/5196/products/[e-mail]

See you in 44,000 years to prove dem maths.

[arctic ocean]

Can i ask a question?, what is this plugin?, sorry because my English 😅

[peak kite]

a tool from worldedit? or is that worldborder

[arctic ocean]

~~"

[limber knot]

What's this about WorldEdit?

[peak kite]

oh sorry didn't see it was a video

[arctic ocean]

that plugin look very cool

[limber knot]

I don't know of a public plugin that does that, I wrote a very similar sort plugin for a large network a few years back because nothing public existed

Maybe that's changed now

[placid thicket]

So this is a thing... https://www.bleepingcomputer.com/news/security/discord-turned-into-an-info-stealing-backdoor-by-new-malware/

[peak kite]

aww only windows?

https://getyarn.io/yarn-clip/dbdc588c-101b-4d1e-b592-51c2b96e4671

[peak kite]

ITS FLAT, so tilt dosent matter!
https://42cdn.com/b2api/v1/b2_download_file_by_id?fileId=4_z6177fca890d8c37157cc0814_f117aff243494ce28_d20191024_m082047_c001_v0001130_t0038

This world was made by script.
https://github.com/MattiBorchers/MinecraftEarthMap

[peak kite]

LOL.

If they need to handle bare metal, they wrap it in special coatings or blankets to protect themselves.

And yet, in the shade, an object will cool down to below -100 degrees Celsius.

Astronauts can experience vast differences in temperature between the side facing the Sun, and the side in shadow. Their spacesuits compensate for this using heaters and cooling systems.```

https://imgflip.com/i/3e7bf8

[limber knot]

did you eat a science book for breakfast?

[limber knot]

tastes secular

[void void]

my god, i hate php

[vestal jasper]

don't we all

[void void]

so i have this retarded shit going on right now. first i need to load all categories with parent 0 (top level). For each, I have to get its children. Then I somehow need to get the children each of those, and so on, all the way until there are no more children. And then build it all into a megajson.

But with php I have no idea where to start

well, without repeating the shit out of myself

i can probably do it...maybe

ergh

aight yall im hella braindead, help

I have: https://hastebin.com/xepahosoli.php

This works but it only gets the immediate children.

For each of the children, I need to repeat that down until there are no more children. Any ideas? lol

[static badge]

write C

[void void]

pls

[static badge]

honestly

let php die

burn it

use C

every second you use php

is another it lives for

alternatively ping kashike

I hear he loves php

vic you're actually retarded

ik what ur typing

[vestal jasper]

wasn't php created because the people a guy was working with were too retarded to use C

[peak kite]

Ice Town.

[static badge]

.g creation of php

[limber knot]

(DiscordBot) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PHP -- PHP - Wikipedia: "PHP includes various free and open-source libraries in its ... generation of images and Adobe Flash content, PHP ..."

[jaunty oriole]

cool, what game is that

[void void]

ok

like i said

i hate php

i dont have a choice

[static badge]

you do have a choice

[void void]

im literally working with wordpress, kill me

[static badge]

write it in C

rewrite wordpress in C

[void void]

lol

[vestal jasper]

Created in 1994 by Rasmus Lerdorf, the very first incarnation of PHP was a simple set of Common Gateway Interface (CGI) binaries written in the C programming language.```
oh huh

[peak kite]

yea, thats this game minecraft, 1.14.4, it makes ice biomes.

[jaunty oriole]

cool

where do i get it

[peak kite]

you can't its exclusive.

1337 only.

[jaunty oriole]

fuck

[peak kite]

But suitcases full of benjamins sent to all users of this chat, can get you the access you need.

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_oMrDt2JRVTk/S9EBnIhijbI/AAAAAAAAAuc/IhlaVzr-5uY/s320/money_suitcase.jpg

.. . ..
Pallets can also be dropped off in driveways.
https://d1o51r9qdgnnlz.cloudfront.net/static_image/e5d016bc-87bc-4dc7-9014-c7989a0df36d/static.jpg

[peak kite]

Oh, damn they fast.. already here, just back it right in. we gonna need some privacy. to offload this ... shipment.
https://media.giphy.com/media/t3a7CNa14scHC/giphy.gif

[merry talon]

@void void you need recursion

more specifically

you need jesus

[jaunty oriole]

you need a recursive jesus

[ocean bison]

did anyone's discord clients have issues connecting earlier?

[stone silo]

PHP can be bearable when done correctly

it's just never done correctly

and even when it's done right you might as well use something else

[glacial stratus]

@ocean bison ye

[vestal latch]

and even when it's done right you might as well use something else
Except when you have a cheap "normal" hosting with just php; or if a client wants to use wordpress; or if you inherit a project with loads of php.

I was on the PHP-sucks bandwagon, but PHP has actually become pretty nice.

Still wouldn't pick it for my own projects hahaha

[queen rapids]

love laravel

[vestal latch]

Any opinions on javascript?

[stone silo]

The only reason to use PHP is if you're inheriting something

There's so many other CMSs out there

[vestal latch]

Possibly regarding developing plugins in it, like with ScriptCraft?

[stone silo]

JS sucks

[vestal latch]

Hahaha okay hello, you write assembly I assume? 😂

[stone silo]

C# primarily

but if you're going to write a bukkit plugin, just use Java

there's no reason to add another layer of complexity onto an unsupported stack

[vestal latch]

Well I wrote one using javascript, and it worked very well

I don't really like java, and I like the fluidity of JS

[stone silo]

If you like the "fluidity" of JS, you're using JS wrong

[vestal latch]

Come'on man, you can be a bit less know-it-all and condescending

Or is that just the style in here? 😂

[stone silo]

I'm assuming you're talking about the weakly typed "feature" of JS

[vestal latch]

Yes, I do

It makes me develop waaaay faster

[stone silo]

I'm speaking as somebody who developed primarily in PHP and JS for about 10 years and then switched to C#

It is under my strictest of opinions if you worry about types enough that loose typing is important to you, you're not writing good code.

[vestal latch]

Hahaha, okay lets agree to disagree then

[stone silo]

Let's take integers for example

[vestal latch]

Yes, an example please :)

[stone silo]

"1" should NEVER equal and int of 1

a string is not an int

[vestal latch]

Correct, that's why my editor warns me when I use ==

That's not the "fluidity" I talk about

It's the fact that I can just say

events.onPlayerJoin((player) => {
  player.sendMessage(`Hey there`);
});

Without making a new class, making sure all the types match up, etc

I'm working with packets now, and I would take me hours after hours to make that work with Java

Partly my lack of Java experience, I guess

[stone silo]

Classless is a problem when you're doing more than just minor functional programming

[wide chasm]

In Java's defense, not each event listener needs to be in a different class, so I wouldn't say "without making a new class" is really a good argument.

[stone silo]

^

great point

[vestal latch]

I know, but you do get the point right?

[quick cradle]

how do i find the ip of my server

[vestal latch]

Classless is a problem when you're doing more than just minor functional programming
Here I again disagree, hahaha

[stone silo]

if you're doing minor utility things, it's trivial to set up a utility class

Ok say you make a function called

oh I don't know

parseInt()

how do you know that parseInt() isn't already defined?

[vestal latch]

Everything in JS is lexically scoped

[quick cradle]

help?

[vestal latch]

If there is no parseInt defined in your file, there is none defined

[stone silo]

that's incorrect

due to the fact that there's potentially other libraries loaded

and there are core global functions

[vestal latch]

In modern JS no other globals are generally defined

Yes you have the core globals, but you seem to be talking about JS 10 years ago

Now everything uses node style require() for other libraries

[stone silo]

So, to go back to my original point

[vestal latch]

And yes they can in theory do global.parseInt = ..., but that is very uncommon and frowned upon

[stone silo]

If you're needing to use require()

let me rephrase that

if you're using functionality of modern JS that is abusing and manipulating JS into acting like every other language out there

what's the point of using JS?

[vestal latch]

Hahaha "abusing and manipulating" really? 😂

[stone silo]

yes, really

[vestal latch]

For one, it doesn't

[stone silo]

just like PHP was never meant to be what it is

[vestal latch]

I am unsure how you can say that JS is "acting like every other language out there"

As JS is still dynamically typed, and even require is not at all similar to how java works with modules

[stone silo]

Why was require() introduced?

[vestal latch]

Because we needed a module system

[stone silo]

Why was a module system required?

[vestal latch]

Because poluting the global scope is not really useable?

Can you get to the point please, I'm really not in for these condescending questions

[stone silo]

So what you're saying is code collision is bad?

[vestal latch]

Not sure what you mean by code collision

But let me turn this around

You ever used java lambdas?

Functional interfaces?

What you using java for if java just tries to copy lambdas from JS?

[stone silo]

What I'm getting at is JS introduced modules because it doesn't have native namespacing

Lambda's are not copied from JS lol

[vestal latch]

I don't even know what you mean by namespacing

[stone silo]

frankly, C# does lambdas better anyway

[vestal latch]

I guess namespacing is a unnecessary concept in JS, where we just have modules :P

[stone silo]

no, you do have namespacing

[vestal latch]

Lets see which language had lambdas first, JS or C#

[stone silo]

it's just poorly named and implemented

the fact that I can write two modules where one overrides the other, and I have no insight into it being overwritten is fantastically inept

[vestal latch]

You can not?

Can you give an example of this?

I really think you don't know modern JS 😂

[stone silo]

also anonymous functions have been around since 1958

[vestal latch]

True, just like module loading has been around very long

All I'm trying to say is your "Why copy other languages point" doesn't make sense

Every language is copying every other language, which is a good thing, not a reason to say "Oh so the copying language is bad"

But, can you give an example of

the fact that I can write two modules where one overrides the other, and I have no insight into it being overwritten is fantastically inept

[stone silo]

sure

I can write a module a

and b

[vestal latch]

Define "module"

Like

// file a
module.exports = () => "a";

// file b
module.exports = () => "b";

Now I include them using require

[stone silo]

whatever syntax you want to use I guess

[vestal latch]

let a = require('./a.js');
let b = require('./b.js');

[stone silo]

we do TS which is a bit more sane syntax wise

sure, whatever, the syntax isn't important to my point

[vestal latch]

Now how can these modules "overwrite" the other?

[stone silo]

JS has no concept of keywords like public, private, protected, etc

[vestal latch]

Well

[stone silo]

in JS, I can really fucking abuse the system and just overwrite a or b

[void void]

Is this guy teaching us js ?

[vestal latch]

let private_value = 0;

module.exports = () => private_value++;

[void void]

[vestal latch]

How can you overwrite it @stone silo

Can you show me

Instead of just telling me how "fucking bad" it is

[stone silo]

can you whip up a codepen or something for me? It's honestly been a while since I've had a JS env working

[vestal latch]

Nahh man

[void void]

JS env

[vestal latch]

You playing the big man here

[void void]

🤣🤣

[vestal latch]

Then you need to prove yourself

[void void]

Real men use notepad

[vestal latch]

With your big "fucking" words everywhere

You can't be so bold about all these claims, having the most strict opinions on them, and then be like "Hey man has been a while"

Please, next time you try to lecture me about a language, make sure you actually know your stuff

Also just wondering now, is there anything really private in java?

As far as I can tell you can find any private field using reflection

[stone silo]

https://codepen.io/developit/pen/NBbgNb?editors=0010

[void void]

@vestal latch 🤣🤣🤣

[stone silo]

that's not exactly what you're talking about cause codepen isn't a full fledged JS environment, but it gets my point across

[vestal latch]

A https://repl.it/ environment is more what you are looking for

There it is actually using node (with actual require and files)

Also I don't see your point yet, where is a module being overwritten?

[stone silo]

ok so what I'm talking about is namespacing

let me relate to you in C# because it does it properly

if I have List<string> someListOfStrings = new List<string>();

[vestal latch]

does it properly as I am used to do it

:P

DAMN markdown

[stone silo]

I know for 100% fucking sure that List is Systems.Collections.Generic.List

I can't do using My.Own.Fucking.Class; and have that namespace contain a class called List

if I use List anywhere in my code, I have to specify WHICH List that is

that doesn't fly in JS

[vestal latch]

Well, it actually does

If you use List in your file

Except for core globals (Array, Object, ...), you need to look at where List = ... is

And then that tells you what list it is

And most likely you'll be doing something like let { List } = require('efficient-data-structures')

There is no implicit using that imports everything into the current scope

[zealous knot]

Im gay

[vestal latch]

There is only explicit let the_variable_it_goes_into = require('the-module-I-take-it-from');

[zealous knot]

My dad beat me when I was little

[stone silo]

ok so half way down the file you decide to do List = 5;

now what?

[vestal latch]

First off, you don't, hahaha

[stone silo]

but you can

that's my point

loose typing breeds bad code

sure you can develop properly in JS

but I'd argue most don't

just like PHP

[vestal latch]

And you can write System.exit() in your java program

And that is most likely a bug in your program

[stone silo]

sure, but at least I know that System.exit() will ALWAYS bee System.exit()

[vestal latch]

And no java type checking will find this

But he, you can

[stone silo]

/s/bee/be

[vestal latch]

Sure, but I don't think it is as important as you make it seem 😂

[stone silo]

no it's insanely important

[vestal latch]

You are really a bad discussion haver, are you? 😂

Well I'm signing off till there are people more open to discussing Java vs JS online 👋

[stone silo]

No, you're just not listening to my arguments

you're putting me off as some dude with a tight spine that's not open to other implementations

and I am

just not with loosely typed languages, because they almost always breed a large userbase that writes poor codes and implements hacks to get around language design

it's not right, but it happens

[void void]

what retardation is going on here now

[woven otter]

javascript

[stone silo]

someone thinks it's a good idea to write bukkit plugins with js

[void void]

ah js

burn it with fire

[woven otter]

looks at skript

[vestal latch]

Well don't know if it is a "good idea"

[void void]

its ecosystem is simply disaster

[stone silo]

^

[vestal latch]

Just figuring out why, for minecraft, it might be a bad idea

[stone silo]

because minecraft is written in java

like, that should be reason enough.

[void void]

that's not an argument though

[vestal latch]

Hmm

[raven dagger]

hi

[stone silo]

I wouldn't write a MC plugin in C#

[vestal latch]

Linux is written in C...

Now lets see, what is my minecraft server, that runs on linux, written in...

Hmmmm

[void void]

it isn't wrong to use scripting language what runs on javm to.. well.. script on jvm?

jvm*

better question would be that how performant it is

[vestal latch]

Well I'm trying out with "graalvm" now

[stone silo]

I would imagine not very

[vestal latch]

And it actually is pretty fast from what I can tell

It is no longer "scripting JS inside JVM"

[modest wagon]

let's just write minecraft plugins in css!

[stone silo]

^

[vestal latch]

But it is compiling them side-by-side

[stone silo]

so it's a transpiler?

[void void]

yeah and i'm gonna start hacking minecraft networks with HTML now

[vestal latch]

No, it is compiling the JS to JVM bytecode

[stone silo]

lol

[woven otter]

let's write plugins in php instead

[vestal latch]

If you call JVM bytecode "transpiled" I don't know what compiled will ever mean

Because yeah, in a definition JVM bytecode is transpiled

[stone silo]

so it's transpiling js to java and then compiling that into bytecode

[vestal latch]

No, it is compiling JS to bytecode *

[stone silo]

what's the underlying tech?

[vestal latch]

Graalvm

It is a completely new JVM implementation by Oracle

From the ground up built for running multiple languages

[stone silo]

ah I see

[vestal latch]

You all joking, but you can write a plugin in Ruby or C if you want

Well at least with graalvm you can

[stone silo]

no c# though

[vestal latch]

And I'm now building a server where people can write their own scripts that run on the server

[stone silo]

that seems a bit backwards

[vestal latch]

And yes the scripts will be in JS

[stone silo]

oh god

that security

good luck lmao

[vestal latch]

Hahaha, trust me I've looked into that

If you want to try to hack it somewhere next week, I'd be glad to have you try :)

no c# though
C# is just not implemented, but if you write a parser for that for "Truffle" (api for graalvm) and you can run C#

But that's why I am, aside from "JS is bad", looking for points that I need to look out for regarding java vs js

[void void]

this discord guild is very likely biased with "java is better than x" opinion

[vestal latch]

I expected that, so I am not asking "Is java better than js"

[dusk drift]

I'm better than Java

[void void]

[vestal latch]

My JS defending rage came when someone said "JS is completely useless based on facts and fucking logic"

But I ain't going to be sandboxing java anytime soon

So for now I am "stuck" with js :P

[void void]

i mean its number type is pretty useless yes. different number types vs javascript turning everyting into float basically

[vestal latch]

I can see how different number types are useful in very perfomance intensive situations (eg a minecraft server), but I have never in my life had my JS applications slow down or use much memory because of all numbers being float

I wouldn't dare to propose writing core-protect in JS hahaha

[void void]

if you want real challenge use clojure

.g mikroskeem bukkitclj

[limber knot]

(DiscordBot) https://github.com/eallik -- eallik (Erik Allik) · GitHub: "... for me it seems to be working, after I did a manual search … +2 −6 • 1 comment. Opened 1 other pull request in 1 repository...."

[void void]

you gotta be fucking kidding me

https://github.com/mikroskeem/BukkitClj

there you go

[vestal latch]

@stone silo https://repl.it/@dralletje/WeirdGraciousMp3

Nobody would do this, but you can ;)

[void void]

lmao new idea for paper patches

[vestal latch]

Hahahaha please no

😂

Then again, no way of patching obfuscated code is ideal I guess

[pulsar wigeon]

issue with that thing michiel, is that you need System var in scope

much easier to just do System.out = new CustomOutputStream()

[vestal latch]

In my new version it is static on the class, also works (static CustomSystem System = new CustomSystem())

Can you re-assign System.out like that?

[pulsar wigeon]

yes...

[stone silo]

and that's only if you don't import System, correct?

[errant echo]

Yo guys wassup hello GoodEve/Morning So I am not very sure if I am using the BuildTools for this Spigot but https://sourceb.in/bf4dc50318

[vestal latch]

Even when I import java.lang.System it works

[pulsar wigeon]

.g java shadow variable

[limber knot]

(DiscordBot) https://dzone.com/articles/variable-shadowing-and-hiding-in-java -- Variable Shadowing and Hiding in Java - DZone Java: "Feb 16, 2018 ... See how variable shadowing and variable hiding work in Java, how your ... instance variables, the local variable shadows the..."

[pulsar wigeon]

there you go

[stone silo]

I'm not sure if C# would yell at you for something like that, but if you did using System; it wouldn't let you compile

[pulsar wigeon]

majority of languages work like this

yes it does

not defining new is a warning, not an error

[stone silo]

I was talking about his code faking out

[void void]

@errant echo 1) that's Spigot 2) this here is Paper, not Spigot 3) let the fossils settle already, 1.8.x is pretty old

[pulsar wigeon]

?

in c# it's Console.Out = new WhateverTextWriter()

vs System.out

but it works the same exact way

or if you just want to shadow the variable

[vestal latch]

@stone silo https://repl.it/@dralletje/c-overwrite-system

[errant echo]

Well you have a point, sorry for having a misunderstanding tho... Just trying to ask if it is still possible 🙂

[pulsar wigeon]

like, the issue is that that relies on the variable being in scope

[void void]

it's still possible however try cleaning up your build directory...

[stone silo]

right, I mean if I hover over System.Console.WriteLine it's going to tell me it's part of ConsoleApp3

[errant echo]

Ahh okay thanks Ill try

[stone silo]

it's still distinctly part of a specific namespace

[void void]

also let this topic die already, it gets none of us here anywhere further

[errant echo]

You writing your First C# Programming DoctorDalek

[pulsar wigeon]

tbh idk what the question even is

[errant echo]

Yeah yeah but Thanks Mikroskeem its seems to be working now

[pulsar wigeon]

i just saw some dumb code

[void void]

don't dig deep into it, save your braincells

[stone silo]

@errant echo no?

[void void]

either way

fuck maths, or rather fucks sake how dumb i am and skipping all functions/integral topics in high school maths few years ago

[errant echo]

hahaha I have lots of them 😂 😂 😂 😂 😂

[void void]

found out today that i'm gonna have a huge test about integrals tomorrow; haven't still managed to learn anything

[errant echo]

So that means 😂 😂 😂 😂 😂

[vestal latch]

👍 👍 👍

Good luck

[errant echo]

Yeah Good Luck

[void void]

https://0x0.st/z3Gb.png

have to calculate approximate value using differentials (or whatever they are called in english)

[errant echo]

Wait what is your nationality mikroskeem

[void void]

🇪🇪

[errant echo]

Fek I mean Language

[void void]

estonian

[errant echo]

Suomi?

Oh XD

Goodluck tho :/

[woven otter]

yay for baltic states

[limber knot]

your mo is a maths tutor

s/mo/mom

Correction, <^-^> your mom is a maths tutor

HOW DARE YOU MY MOMMY IS A SAINT

[limber knot]

Whore.

D:

mods please ban this filth

humps ^-^

[quick cradle]

what

[placid thicket]

shhh... nothing makes sense here... best not to get involved

[wary summit]

guys? world border nether portal bug ever fixed? (I dont track xD)

[placid thicket]

not really their problem. although if you set the vanilla world border to match your plugin border minecraft will handle it for you

[proud lance]

theres a fork of worldborder that has it fixed

its in one of the issue tickets

[wary summit]

fork? what fork?

@proud lance can't find any world border fork..?

[proud lance]

https://github.com/NerdNu/WorldBorder

[wary summit]

ehm thats not a fork? its the original

[proud lance]

uh

no its not

https://github.com/Brettflan/WorldBorder <-- original

[golden gust]

https://github.com/NerdNu/WorldBorder/commit/3f8923f9d0311c92dfbf4901947b58bc8efdd38a

nonsensical

[wary summit]

oh sorry xD

anyone got the forked wb compiled? (I know its eternal shame but I never messed with java)

[limber knot]

No You.

[proud lance]

just download it, install maven and compile it as so

https://github.com/Brettflan/WorldBorder/pull/152#issuecomment-521069152

but I honestly suggest you follow flanigomik's suggestion instead

[wary summit]

I think I use circle/radius world border while vanilla uses square

[woven otter]

barty I need barty buck

[wary summit]

Guys, seriously good work, every single time I went there I always get 999% answer 😄 masterminds

[limber knot]

Nipple clamps

[fallen oracle]

What

[limber knot]

When

[woven otter]

sad

[pearl ibex]

@spare venture Be my tutor. :>

[golden gust]

temporary Spigot/CraftBukkit bugs

Just, gg

Should we ask him to take back the word temporary?

[left swift]

Bugs r gross

[golden gust]

Nou

[left swift]

O

[peak kite]

i hear now they are intentionally putting bugs in 1.15

[golden gust]

yes

.bees

[limber knot]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xAhuSDRIDHE

(Korobi) BEES!!! - length 27s - 14,095 likes, 200 dislikes (98.6%) - 1,389,588 views - magicb0y on 2010.11.27

[pearl ibex]

Cat, u wanna get banned? :>

[golden gust]

Fite me

[peak kite]

Yea, it was supposed to be an obvious joke, oprah not needed.

[golden gust]

Yeah but like

Bees!

[left swift]

I want phantoms to be unkillable and their screech sound played more often and louder

[golden gust]

I just love that vid so much

[pearl ibex]

Don't mess with the MC god md_5. :>

[left swift]

*Oprah not included in 1.15

Bring your own Oprah

[peak kite]

that would be a bug fo sho

[golden gust]

Also, fuck me

[vestal jasper]

no thanks

that's city's job

[golden gust]

I think Microsoft and apple colluded to make boot camp a pain in the ass

Okay

Now Windows requires you to have 3 secret answers

3

Wtf

[left swift]

Less than 4 but more than 2

[pulsar wigeon]

you can skip that cat

just leave the password empty on the previous screen

after the account is made, you can add a password via control panel

[peak kite]

the secret answers are for the A.I. database to understand your subconscious.

[pulsar wigeon]

without the secret questions

[golden gust]

Too late for that one

Gfdi

[pulsar wigeon]

🇫

[woven otter]

wiz

u smell bad

[proud lance]

blocked

[kindred gate]

hey @acoustic pilot apologies if you are already aware, but the SSL cert of your site is broken

[ERROR] Failed to execute goal on project SimpleAdminHacks: Could not resolve dependencies for project com.programmerdan.minecraft:SimpleAdminHacks:jar:1.2.4: Failed to collect dependencies at com.comphenix.protocol:ProtocolLib-API:jar:4.5.0-SNAPSHOT: Failed to read artifact descriptor for com.comphenix.protocol:ProtocolLib-API:jar:4.5.0-SNAPSHOT: Could not transfer artifact com.comphenix.protocol:ProtocolLib-API:pom:4.5.0-SNAPSHOT from/to byteflux-repo (http://repo.byteflux.net/repository/maven-snapshots/): Failed to transfer file: http://repo.byteflux.net/repository/maven-snapshots/com/comphenix/protocol/ProtocolLib-API/4.5.0-SNAPSHOT/ProtocolLib-API-4.5.0-SNAPSHOT.pom. Return code is: 526 , ReasonPhrase:Origin SSL Certificate Error. -> [Help 1]

[errant echo]

Use some sort of Bin for that and maybe they're aware so don't kindda tag them... 😄

[fallen oracle]

@kindred gate You can tell maven to ignore SSL

[true canyon]

It's not a maven thing @fallen oracle

Visit here - https://repo.byteflux.net/

[limber knot]

Y u ignore SSL? :(

SSL is love

It doesn't deserve to be ignored

[peak kite]

pfft you ever try to cache and proxy ssl data its not as easy. cmon make things easy for your isp who can't be sued for giving away your private info.

https://www.eff.org/https-everywhere

[pearl ibex]

I'm about to name a class AbstractArena. Help.

[peak kite]

I always try one of these solutions when I need help.
https://www.howtogeek.com/125157/8-deadly-commands-you-should-never-run-on-linux/

[pearl ibex]

Who uses Ubuntu anyways?

[cosmic raft]

woo left work earlier today

[tawdry coyote]

no bus schedule this time? sadlyfe

[pearl ibex]

@cosmic raft It's almost 22 here, smh.

[pearl ibex]

3 hours difference. Nice.

[cosmic raft]

And here comes the bus.

[pearl ibex]

:O

[cosmic raft]

and on the bus and on the way home

[limber knot]

https://twitter.com/SenatorLeahy/status/1187117375008755712

Sen. Patrick Leahy (@SenatorLeahy)

https://t.co/fmE0hiPLNB

Retweets

32248

Likes

105605

Twitter

[peak kite]

......mean while.... behind closed doors.....
https://i.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/original/001/340/029/055.jpg

[tawdry coyote]

i mean what did u expect. the market of consumer data is so valuable these days that it's pretty expected to assume with higher transmission rates, there will be higher collection rates.

[peak kite]

Lower prices would be prudent.

if your personal private parts of your life are going to get raped and sold, at least you should get a part of it. or is that prostimarketing?

So you can't sue your isp, then why not at least force them to lower your prices. They are monopolies when only 1 cable company can service any given home.
So facebook sells your stuff.. well why don't they offer cheap ad space TO those users?

Ask why reasonable compensation isn't even on the table or discussed.

Ask why you can't put your companies video ap on a TV that youtube gets to put their ap on, but then youtube is on a banning spree even though its a platform?

[peak kite]

.....
I need higher res source images if I am gonna get anywhere, antartica is huge.
https://img42.com/yfi0F+

[placid thicket]

Your daily dose of stupid

This happened in the early 80's, when I was a programmer for Accu-Weather. We had needed DEC field service to come out and deal with our PDP-11's latest hardware problem, but when I called, I was told they were only taking criticial emergency calls at that time. All of the techs from the local field office were busy on another site -- HRB-Singer, a local defense contractor. When they finally made it to us and our problem, I heard the rest of the story.
It seems that HRB-Singer had a bank of about a dozen drives. Now, this was back in the days of washing-machine sized drives and big removable disc packs, the kind with a stack of aluminum platters and covers that would serve to protect a decent-sized birthday cake. One of their drives suffered a head crash with a particular disc pack. The night operator, apparently not sure if the problem was with the drive or the disc pack, stuffed the pack into the next drive in line, crashing that one, too, as the heads encountered the plowed-up aluminum from the first crash. He then proceeded to put that increasingly lethal pack into every single drive in the room, in some instances physically ripping the heads from their brackets.
Since the disc pack was from DEC, the first drive's problems were covered under their service contract. The following 11, however, were not. I hate to imagine what their bill must have been. They had the entire staff of the DEC field office, four techs, out there for a week with cases and cases of heads, installing and aligning new ones. If I recall correctly there were 14 heads per drive, a total of 168 heads, each and every one of which had to be installed, aligned, calibrated, and tested. Which is why none of their other customers could get maintenance to come for anything that wasn't actually on fire for most of that week.

[jagged egret]

@placid thicket I like how it says that he wasn't sure if the problem was with the drive or the disc pack but then he went and thought "better test the disk pack on the rest of these drives, can't be sure if it's the disk pack after it's killed 4"

[vestal jasper]

If I was him I wouldn't even have tested myself, I would've instantly called in to see.

[placid thicket]

Lol right? Do you fire the guy? Charge him with terrorism? Burn him at the stake?

[vestal jasper]

Considering how many resources and people it took to get it fixed, he royally fucked up

[placid thicket]

Unclear but also possibly lost all data on all drives too

[vestal jasper]

I also have a love for minicomputers so that's painful to hear

I only know a of a few of those that are publicly known to still be in operation

[jagged egret]

minicomputers
washing-machine sized drives

[vestal jasper]

one of which is a 45 minute drive away from me and is accessible through telnet, if you're approved for an account.

[placid thicket]

Compared to earlier models? Those are tiny

[vestal jasper]

^

Desktops nowadays are fucked versions of microcomputers

[jagged egret]

it just makes me wonder what they would call a modern hard drive if they saw it

[vestal jasper]

"impossible"

[placid thicket]

Black magic

[vestal jasper]

and yeah what flamingo said, they're mini compared to the building sized mainframes they're normally compared to.

btw flamingo you know about S.A.G.E.?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Semi-Automatic_Ground_Environment

[placid thicket]

In prehistoric times you physically weaved sheets of memory where every cross was a bit

[vestal jasper]

fun read

large network of building sized computers that was barely used and preetty much completely torn to bits after it / they were decommissioned

[placid thicket]

Very interesting, will read

Pick a piece of hardware and allow me to give you a painful story about it

[vestal jasper]

Allegedly the largest computer ever built, too

[placid thicket]

I bet

[vestal jasper]

or the largest at the time

one or the other tbh

¯_(ツ)_/¯

[placid thicket]

Gimme something to find a story about

[vestal jasper]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=06drBN8nlWg

[limber knot]

(DiscordBot) In Your Defense: The SAGE System - length 23m 21s - 967 likes, 39 dislikes (96.1%) - 218,126 views - Computer History Museum on 2008.03.17

[vestal jasper]

hmm

how about a xerox alto @placid thicket

[placid thicket]

Lol that might be too specific, how about this?

One day a customer called complaining that he just received his computer, but it won't turn on. When he first pushed the power button, the screen flashed and then everything died.
I couldn't do much over the phone, so I went to the customer's office. It was plugged in, everything was hooked up ok, but, sure enough, it refused to turn on. I decided to take it back and promised to deliver a new one as soon as possible. But when I went to pick it up, I couldn't.
Fearful of thieves, the man had fired some 24 inch bolts straight through the box, through the hard drive, motherboard, everything, locking it to his desk.
"Oh," he said, "I thought it was just the TV part that was important. Will my warranty cover this?"

[vestal jasper]

I'd ask for imsai 8080 or altair 8800 horror stories but those are my favorite computers and it'd hurt so much to read

mfw

[placid thicket]

Sounds like a typical paper user

[vestal jasper]

Have you seen War Games?

[placid thicket]

No

[vestal jasper]

o

ok

[placid thicket]

Ah

Typical paper user

A customer called us (a computer shop) and asked what all they needed to bring in with the computer. I told her that was it. Then about 10 minutes later she pulled up with the monitor and the computer still attached to each other. She said she couldn't unscrew the monitor from the computer, so she brought both in.
I took a look at it. The built-in video card was hanging on by a thread and sticking out where they tried ripping out the cable without unscrewing it first. She acted surprised when I told her she ruined the motherboard.

[vestal jasper]

how do these people get out of bed in the morning

I understand some confusion since cables used to screw into their connections but wtf

[placid thicket]

You got a free hour to be disappointed in the human race?

[vestal jasper]

I've got 6

[placid thicket]

Lemme set you up

[vestal jasper]

ok

[placid thicket]

http://rinkworks.com/stupid/

The source of my stories

[placid thicket]

Lemme know what you think @vestal jasper

[scenic prawn]

hey there!

[placid thicket]

Hello

[scenic prawn]

hot take on hot thing

how many people notice how the paper logo is similar to telegram's

[placid thicket]

Idk, don't think anyone cares tbh

[scenic prawn]

that's quite fair

[vestal jasper]

One customer held the mouse in the air and pointed it at the screen like a TV remote, all the while clicking madly.

oh no

[scenic prawn]

bright as a broken bulb

sounds about right

is it your job to help?

[placid thicket]

Lol that's surprisingly common

[scenic prawn]

they need the smart™

[vestal jasper]

the mice section is honestly more painful than the other sections

[placid thicket]

I used to work at a printing site that still used paper tape. One of the tape punches failed, and I'd removed the punch mechanism to look at it. It was a complex mishmash of springs, levers, and all sorts of things. Periodically, paper dust would build up and gum up the works, and we'd have to clean them out.
But at this particular time, my boss walked past, saw the problem, and said, "Oh! That needs cleaning!" and before I could say or do anything, he grabbed a spray can of PCb cleaner and sprayed the entire mechanism.
Now, this stuff dissolves anything that isn't metal, especially plastic. Sure enough, all the plastic components of the punch mechanism started dissolving. There was a loud ping as one of the springs snapped free of its plastic housing and flew across the workshop.
The thing just fell apart. It never went back into service -- there just wasn't enough of it left to repair.

[scenic prawn]

at least you don't get customers looking for pets

or do you

[placid thicket]

Wait till you get to programming section

[vestal jasper]

fun fact in a room with 20 other people I was the only person who knew how to insert a power cable into a computer and press the power button

I'm sometimes referred to as "The IT Guy" by my trainer

[placid thicket]

Same fam... In a comp repair class...

[scenic prawn]

this is very relatable and close to the heart of my professional identity in any room with more than ten people double my age

[vestal jasper]

he pointed to the windows key on a keyboard
pressed it
and told me
"You know what this is called, I don't, just press it to turn on the computer"

I had about 5 different emotions rush through me at that moment

[scenic prawn]

so long as one of them's despair, i'm pretty sure you're covered

[placid thicket]

Does it hurt yet Vic?

@scenic prawn http://rinkworks.com/stupid/ if you also want to hurt

[scenic prawn]

no

as in no

i've had people complain their pictures were gone, and they were stored in the recycle bin

i'm not opening that

[placid thicket]

Lol, there are a few like that, but most are hardware related

[scenic prawn]

perhaps next time i feel like adding more pain to life's

thanks

[jagged egret]

Customer: "I received the software update you sent, but I am still getting the same error message."

Tech Support: "Did you install the update?"

Customer: "No. Oh, am I supposed to install it to get it to work?"

[placid thicket]

Lol love that one... Reminds me of a few people here

[scenic prawn]

"you mean the cable needs to go in the hole?"

[scenic prawn]

hello there!

i'm not the new guy anymore!

[vestal jasper]

kick him :^)

[placid thicket]

I worked at a photo lab in New Mexico. Part of my job was outputing digital files to a film recorder. Everyone there was friendly, except for one woman who never seemed to like me. After a few months I asked my boss about it. He told me that before I got there, they had tried to train her to do the digital output. They even paid for her to go to a class to learn about computers. She was the only student in the class who managed to get a floppy stuck in the drive upside down and backwards. The teacher had to disassemble the machine to get the disk out. She told him she had to pound it with the heal of her hand to get the disk to go in. After that, the photo lab decided she probably wasn't the one for that position. She always resented the fact that I had 'her' job.

[scenic prawn]

delightful

sometimes we as a species are a disease and struggle with the most basic of comprehension unless spoonfed

[placid thicket]

A customer came into the store one day to return an internal modem, which he had purchased a few days earlier. He complained that it would not work. I took the modem out of the package and could scarcely believe my eyes.
The card had been filed down to about half its original size.

Tech Support: "Why has this card been filed?"

Customer: "The modem didn't fit in the slot, so I had to file it till it would fit."

[scenic prawn]

c e a s e

[placid thicket]

Ten years ago, I was working for a company selling computerized cash registers. A customer called in to help me with a cash register that didn't connect to the back office computer.

Me: "So, can you tell me the settings of the DIP switches on the cash register?"

Customer: "DIP switch?"

Me: "Oh, sorry, the small switches located on the backside."

Customer: "Eeeerrr...there are no switches there."

Me: "Oh, yes, there are. Right next to the power cord."

Customer: "No. There are no switches. Not any more!"

Me: (puzzled) "Huh? Not any more? What do you mean?"

Customer: "Well, you know, my collegue told me that these switches might actually be what caused the problem, so I removed them."

Me: "REMOVED THEM??"

Customer: "Yeah, you know, removed them. With a chisel."

[scenic prawn]

oh you scoundrel

[placid thicket]

[scenic prawn]

your very actions are a curse upon my eyes

[placid thicket]

A user brought in a rather dirty Sony VAIO system to get a new power supply. The thing was dirty and beat up. He set it on the counter, and the side panel popped right open, and the thing was grubby inside. We saw one little tiny bug scurry out of it, and we killed it.
The system was brought in back to the garage, to clean it out. The thing was crawling with bugs -- there were over twenty inside this thing, including cockroaches and others I didn't even recognize. We doused everything with antiseptic and killed as many as we could. Then we popped in the new power supply. Just as we brought it out front, one last roach crawled from underneath the old supply and scurried into the new one, making it his home.
When we told the user about the amount of bugs (and charging him a little extra for our trouble), he said, "Well, I'm not surprised. We had this thing out by our kitchen." Egads.

[scenic prawn]

wItH a cHiSeL

[static badge]

could've been with a tumor

[scenic prawn]

tumor

you mean crawling mass of bugs

[scenic prawn]

do we welcome people coming in here?

i'm from community servers, not sure what the form is here

[placid thicket]

People usually don't, after major updates we may get 300 new users who say nothing and leave in a week

People also tend to get rather... Passionate... At times

[scenic prawn]

now that's information i want to intake more of

please to tell

i assume you're not talking about hot sweaty hip thrusting, so

do people just flame?

[placid thicket]

Sometimes.

Sometimes you get people accusing everyone of being retards. Sometimes you cat users looking for help but refusing the answers they get. And other fun things. It's best to keep popcorn handy

[scenic prawn]

oh boy