folia-help

[torn jetty]

Is it really that much better?

[final bronze]

it really is, after using folia I am confident that I can scale upto 1000 players without noticeable lag

[torn jetty]

Thats insane

What are ur machine specs?

[final bronze]

also 32 threads with this processor is best for 200 players

[torn jetty]

Would it still be good if i scaled it too 600+ players?

[final bronze]

right now I am using a shared game server of 16 threads r9 9950x

and it works great with 250+ players

only issu I am facing currently is bandwidth

my bandwidth is a round 2tb a day

i will switch to dedicated in few days

[torn jetty]

ahh i see

Thanks a lot for ur advice!

I will keep working i guess to make sure i can get folia on my server

Its just that some plugins i use dont support it

Which makes it a headache

[final bronze]

it is a pain in starting

[magic orchid]

you need to be prepared to either make your own plugins or pay someone to do it.
a lot of simple mainstream plugins dont exist for folia.

[magic orchid]

hey everyone, this might not be a folia specific question and rather a general minecraft server question so feel free to point me somewhere else if this doesnt fit here.

I am selfhosting a (folia) server and have noticed that the ping on my server is very inconsistent and seems to be influenced by the amount of mobs around me.
Like when I am at a place with not many other players and no animal farm i have a ping of 20 but when im at a base with some animal pens my ping goes to 50.
its not an actual issue right now as the ping always stays low enough to not interfere with gameplay but i was just wondering if that is a common symptom of a bad network configuration.
I have never seen the ping being influenced by mobs like that on other servers.
It has to be networking related as my server is always at a stable 20TPS and not even close to being overloaded.

I already set the view distance to 4, reduced the entity broadcast range to 80%, set the network compression threshold to a lower value (96 iirc) and reduced the entity-collisions-per-tick to 2 as animal pens seem to be the biggest cause for the ping rising (I think it did help as the average ping was higher before i changed all of that).
I am very sure my server itself is not the issue but rather something networking related.

Is there some common cause that has a symptom like that?

[viral stone]

number of mobs influcences the number of packets, could be a bottleneck somewhere, that would cause stuff like the keepalive packets to get stuck behind

[magic orchid]

ive been told that the fiber modem i use is known for having buffer bloat issues, could that be a symptom of that?
actual upload rates are well below my internet speed though (but i know, the shown rates are just averaged out so it might look misleading).

[viral stone]

yes

[magic orchid]

i had the same issue but on a much larger scale earlier too, but it was the router i used causing buffer bloat (it had no smart queue stuff) and the problem went down to the current scale when i got a new OPNsense router

[viral stone]

The entire nature of buffer bloat is that packet delivery becomes delayed and inconsistent

[magic orchid]

alright, i guess i need to figure out how to test if the modem is actually the problem.
it operates as a simple bridge so i cant ping it directly or anything.
but at this point this is more of a generic networking issue and not related to minecraft anymore, thank you for your help

[torn jetty]

Hey there! I'm working on a server with a lot of custom features. I was trying to use Folia but folia just seems to break and most features / plugins just don't fully support it yet.

My question is: Should I stick with folia and sacrifice the features for performance or would paper and or a fork with just fine which means I get to keep all my features?

It's gonna be a big SMP with a huge map. Can be pre-rendered tho.

Machine specs:
-Ryzen 9 7950X 16 cores 32 threads
-128GB DDR5
-2x 2TB nvme SSd's (gen4)

[viral stone]

Folia is in a state where the expectation is that you have the resources to throw dev time at it, rather than relying on public plugins, etc

only you can answer if folia is suitable for you, for most people, they'd be better off just using paper

[torn jetty]

thats fair. I guess I will stick to paper then

[warped spade]

if i have gens tyccon, what software is the best ?

folia or paper or another ?

[timber igloo]

the image above shows it pretty well. if your players are spread out a lot (>1000 blocks from eachother ~) or in different dimensions, folia can help.

[warped spade]

is theyre any solution to folia, because i have an smp on folia, and i want peace for my gens tycoon, folia is so many problem.
I hear about luminol is it good ?

[timber igloo]

people here will not help you with folia forks

[analog vine]

Someone has an idea how this can happens?
:/

[fierce knot]

message.txt by @analog vine: https://pastes.dev/aoLGaTyWv1

[viral stone]

that's just a generic "the thing took too long to tick"

[analog vine]

But how could this happen? :/

[viral stone]

many reasons, it's hard to say

you would generally need to be looking into tools like spark and potentially other monitoring stuff

[analog vine]

could vines spawning made this problem? I checked what was build their and their only got placed vines

[viral stone]

if you set the random tick stupidly high maybe

[analog vine]

i didnt it was 100 as standart

[viral stone]

random tick speed gamerule defaults to 3

[analog vine]

isnt that this here?
cavevines-modifier: 0

[viral stone]

That's a modifier, not the random tick speed

[analog vine]

you know where the modifier is?

[viral stone]

it is a gamerule

[analog vine]

ah i never touch it

[lime stag]

Hey did repsawn behaviour change on folia? The point you set with /setworldspawn is being ignored?

No plugins on the server at all to interfere with this

[magic orchid]

Can you show us your example code?

[lime stag]

There's no code lol

This is vanilla commands

[magic orchid]

Ah k

[lime stag]

Folia 1.21.11 build 11

[magic orchid]

Seems like you got the spawn radius set to a value larger than 1

[lime stag]

is that a thing?

[magic orchid]

Its a gamerule that adds a random offset to the spawn, yes

[lime stag]

What gamerule?

[magic orchid]

something like "respawn_radius"

[lime stag]

Not a thing lol

[umbral vault]

chunk radius

[umbral vault]

make it 0 or 1

Hmm

Wait

spawn_chunk_radius

respawn_radius

look these two

[lime stag]

I found it /gamerule respawn_radius 0

[umbral vault]

alr

That will fix it

[lime stag]

Not really im still spawning weirdly

[umbral vault]

[lime stag]

I'm closer to spawn yes, but im spawning in a tree above lol

Yeah idk man

[grizzled prairie]

How does region splitting work?

All my players (60-120 players) live within a radius of about 50,000 blocks. Most of them are near spawn, within about 5,000 blocks from spawn. As I understand it, this area around spawn is treated as a single region, and it often runs at around 16–17 TPS.

Is there a way to split it into more regions? Or would it be better not to do that?

Sorry if these are basic questions. I don’t fully understand how Folia works yet

[magic orchid]

you can reduce the grid-exponent setting to make the minimum distance between players lower for splitting.
the absolute minimum is ~1k blocks between players though, even if you reduce it.
I personally found that setting it to 3 works good for me

[fair merlin]

But basically you can't force it to do anything - if players get too close the regions will combine. No way around that.

[pastel musk]

hi. I was wondering, about folia, how many players can I possibly run on an 8-core CPU? I am pressuming it will be some PVP server where each 1v1 duel would run in a seperate world as to use the threading hacks you guys have

[fair merlin]

You want players spread out on Folia, and it really prefers to have more cores. If you're on only 8 cores and folks are close together then it doesn't make sense to use Folia. You should use Paper instead.

[pastel musk]

question: 8 cores + 16 threads, but since it is not a normal server but a special PVP server I want to create, since different dimensions run on different threads, can I abuse it?

[fair merlin]

That doesn't change my answer.

[pastel musk]

oh

how many cores then would the answer change then?

32? 16?

[fair merlin]

If the players are too close together then it won't really matter.

[pastel musk]

I see what you are saying, but I was reffering to different dinemsions in differnet worlds, not distance since no two duels will be situated in the same dimension

[livid crag]

If you only have under spec CPUs, stick with Paper.

[pastel musk]

https://www.reddit.com/r/admincraft/comments/1lgrlh6/does_folia_actually_need_to_run_on_16_cores_or/

is this the reason?

b/c I would not be generating any terrain

[livid crag]

Not sure what's the purpose of a random post you are linking. If you already make up your mind on what you want to do, why even bother asking for our advice? @pastel musk

[pastel musk]

True

[finite hinge]

Extra worlds with Folia can also be tricky

But really whether Folia works for you or not is something you have to figure out yourself, once you know the mechanics of how region threads work you then look at your situation and hardware and decide if it can help

In theory Folia could perform better than Paper with 2 cores but the fewer you have the less likely that is to be true

The problem is migrating to Folia is a large task, there aren't many plugins that support it so you have to write all your own and that's a lot of work to end up with something that ends up not working well

Whoever you have writing your plugins should be able to figure out if Folia makes sense for you or not

[pastel ridge]

how can i turn of player knokback

like he in stand in spawn and he forward backward forward backward and player get knokback how to turn of this system

[pastel ridge]

Bungee placeholder not working in folia

[fair merlin]

No idea if that's in Folia. We'd recommend Velocity, though.

Also please don't post the same message to multiple channels.

[tiny gale]

he has spammed helpchat too lol

[pastel ridge]

Sorry

[fair merlin]

Not really relevant - not a message that needs to be in this channel.

[small mauve]

I think I have an issue with PortalCreateEvent where entity is not being passed and instead being nulled. How can I prove it's Folia and how would I submit a bug for this?

[19:18:29 INFO]: [PortalDebugPlugin] ========== PortalCreateEvent ==========
[19:18:29 INFO]: [PortalDebugPlugin] Cancelled: false
[19:18:29 INFO]: [PortalDebugPlugin] Reason: NETHER_PAIR
[19:18:29 INFO]: [PortalDebugPlugin] World: world
[19:18:29 INFO]: [PortalDebugPlugin] Entity: null
[19:18:29 INFO]: [PortalDebugPlugin] Block count: 20
[19:18:29 INFO]: [PortalDebugPlugin] First Block: OBSIDIAN @ world x=-41605 y=61 z=-12431
[19:18:29 INFO]: [PortalDebugPlugin] Last Block: NETHER_PORTAL @ world x=-41605 y=64 z=-12429
[19:18:29 INFO]: [PortalDebugPlugin] Materials In Event: NETHER_PORTAL, OBSIDIAN
[19:18:29 INFO]: [PortalDebugPlugin] Block[0]: OBSIDIAN @ world x=-41605 y=61 z=-12431
[19:18:29 INFO]: [PortalDebugPlugin] Block[1]: OBSIDIAN @ world x=-41605 y=62 z=-12431
[19:18:29 INFO]: [PortalDebugPlugin] Block[2]: OBSIDIAN @ world x=-41605 y=63 z=-12431
[19:18:29 INFO]: [PortalDebugPlugin] Block[3]: OBSIDIAN @ world x=-41605 y=64 z=-12431
[19:18:29 INFO]: [PortalDebugPlugin] Block[4]: OBSIDIAN @ world x=-41605 y=65 z=-12431
[19:18:29 INFO]: [PortalDebugPlugin] Block[5]: OBSIDIAN @ world x=-41605 y=61 z=-12430
[19:18:29 INFO]: [PortalDebugPlugin] Block[6]: OBSIDIAN @ world x=-41605 y=65 z=-12430
[19:18:29 INFO]: [PortalDebugPlugin] Block[7]: OBSIDIAN @ world x=-41605 y=61 z=-12429
[19:18:29 INFO]: [PortalDebugPlugin] Block[8]: OBSIDIAN @ world x=-41605 y=65 z=-12429
[19:18:29 INFO]: [PortalDebugPlugin] Block[9]: OBSIDIAN @ world x=-41605 y=61 z=-12428
[19:18:29 INFO]: [PortalDebugPlugin] Block[10]: OBSIDIAN @ world x=-41605 y=62 z=-12428
[19:18:29 INFO]: [PortalDebugPlugin] Block[11]: OBSIDIAN @ world x=-41605 y=63 z=-12428
[19:18:29 INFO]: [PortalDebugPlugin] Block[12]: OBSIDIAN @ world x=-41605 y=64 z=-12428
[19:18:29 INFO]: [PortalDebugPlugin] Block[13]: OBSIDIAN @ world x=-41605 y=65 z=-12428
[19:18:29 INFO]: [PortalDebugPlugin] Block[14]: NETHER_PORTAL @ world x=-41605 y=62 z=-12430
[19:18:29 INFO]: [PortalDebugPlugin] Block[15]: NETHER_PORTAL @ world x=-41605 y=63 z=-12430
[19:18:29 INFO]: [PortalDebugPlugin] Block[16]: NETHER_PORTAL @ world x=-41605 y=64 z=-12430
[19:18:29 INFO]: [PortalDebugPlugin] Block[17]: NETHER_PORTAL @ world x=-41605 y=62 z=-12429
[19:18:29 INFO]: [PortalDebugPlugin] Block[18]: NETHER_PORTAL @ world x=-41605 y=63 z=-12429
[19:18:29 INFO]: [PortalDebugPlugin] Block[19]: NETHER_PORTAL @ world x=-41605 y=64 z=-12429
[19:18:29 INFO]: [PortalDebugPlugin] =======================================

Here is the code I am having problems with due to this entity null thing

[finite hinge]

Isn't that just because it's NETHER_PAIR? I suspect you'd only get the entity for FIRE

[small mauve]

It would pass entity in the past. I think paper it does just fine but let me verify that claim

[finite hinge]

I suppose since you can't do anything with the player, since they're in a different region, Folia might be removing it

Or it's just a bug

Or it doesn't work in Paper either 😛

[timber igloo]

<@&748618676189528155>

[late ruin]

1. How to allocate more cores.(I got 12)
2. How to fix pearls on Folia

[small mauve]

1. Buy a better CPU.
2. Not supported, but there is forks that fix it.

I believe the recommendations is 16 core cpu for folia otherwise you're better off with Paper in the long run

[late ruin]

1. But how to allocate more?
2. Tell me some

[magic orchid]

i think the option you need is in paper-global.yml under the name "threaded-regions"

also you cant really ask about forks here as we do not support them

[late ruin]

What should I change it to if I have 12 cores

[magic orchid]

there is no "one-fits-all" solution for that but you can use this as an initial guide.
https://docs.papermc.io/folia/faq/#how-to-best-configure-folia

[late ruin]

Suggest

[magic orchid]

if you cant follow the guide on your own then you shouldnt even try with folia.
you need to do a lot of "DIY" stuff on Folia as there is a lot less support online for it (compared to regular paper).

[small mauve]

I agree with what Moos said, if you are incapable of figuring it out yourself, don't even bother.

[late ruin]

master in paper and it's forks, bad at folia

[pastel ridge]

how can i enable nether roof top building for Bedrock players

[inner swift]

This is entirely up to the plugin you're using for this

[dawn plover]

Is playerrespawnevent broken on folia and if so does anyone know any work arounds? I'm using the worlds plugin and have my /setspawn set in my lobby world. When I type /spawn players spawn there. However when I die and respawn i respawn in my overworld instead of where i /setspawn. I also want to note when players first join the server they do spawn in the lobby. It's just the respawn behavior that doesnt spawn them in the lobby world on death.

[magic orchid]

yup, that event does not work on Folia.
there is a workaround by abusing the InventoryCloseEvent and checking if the player is dead there

[dawn plover]

ty

[late ruin]

How many cores should I have on folia, if 12 is too less

[magic orchid]

16 cores, 32 threads at least

[late ruin]

@magic orchid do you know any good folia fork for 1.21.11

[magic orchid]

no i dont

[late ruin]

Okay

Do you know why my server stops so slow? @magic orchid

sometimes crashes and rolls back

[fair merlin]

If the server is slow, post a Spark report please.

[late ruin]

Not slow

just

stops slow

sometimes crashes randomly

[fair merlin]

I would still post a spark report.

[late ruin]

its like on 0.1 tps

when it stops

[magic orchid]

best to post both the log and spark report

[late ruin]

When

When it stops

Or when it crashed

[magic orchid]

whenever an issue occured

[fair merlin]

Step 1: post a spark report now.

Step 2: post a log from a crash if you have one.

[late ruin]

I'm waiting the 300 seconds

[fierce knot]

2026-03-11-1.log by @late ruin: https://pastes.dev/BsvobqhZOK

[late ruin]

https://spark.lucko.me/aRyYIYd1ne

Nothing atm since I didn't stop it

[inner swift]

This seems like a shared host?

[late ruin]

?

Pretty sure just bandwidth is shared and 4 cores, but I requested an upgrade to the cores

The server is just very optimized under cpu load

[magic orchid]

you have 12 CPU threads, folia should be used on at least 32 threads

[inner swift]

It's not recommended to use a shared host for Folia

I asked because I saw the amount of threads you have don't match the CPU and also because your GC stats are suspiciously high, could be just memory pressure but also could indicate not great hardware

[late ruin]

what should I use for GC stats

[fair merlin]

You need better hardware if you want to run Folia.

It's not designed for shared hosts, low end CPUs, etc. It's designed to take advantage of higher end CPUs more than Paper would.

[late ruin]

Isn't a 9950x good?

[fair merlin]

A dedicated box with a 9950X, yes.

A shared host, no.

[magic orchid]

it is good when you got it 100% for yourself.
but you are sharing it with others so you cant get 100% of it's performance

[late ruin]

32 threads and 16 cores?

[magic orchid]

yes, that is the recommended minimum for Folia

[late ruin]

Okay

Is the ram good though

And the JVM flags

[fair merlin]

@late ruin I don't accept friend requests from people I don't know.

If you're going to run Folia you need better hosting.

[late ruin]

That's fine

[late ruin]

Does 32 threads 16 cores 9950x , 24 GB ram work?

[magic orchid]

you usually only need a maximum of 20GB (process memory) + 2GB for the server OS.
but even that is only under very heavy load with a super high player count

[fair merlin]

If it is a dedicated server and you have the entire 9950X, yes.

If you're using a shared host, no.

[late ruin]

I run the server os and panel on a different server

This server was part of a partnership

Actually 2 servers

[magic orchid]

you can not run the server without an OS though.
the machine running your server also has to run an OS.
otherwise it would just be a paperweight

[late ruin]

The lobby server is fine, I don't know why I picked bungee cord

[late ruin]

I paid someone to install everything since it was just a VM

He asked if he should install panel and everything on the lobby server

I said yes

[magic orchid]

even if it is a VM, there is an OS running inside that VM

[late ruin]

Yeah, I understand now

[magic orchid]

you physicaly can not run the server without

[fair merlin]

And don't run Folia in a VM.

[late ruin]

Where should I run it?

[fair merlin]

On a dedicated server.

I'd recommend reading the docs for Folia.

[late ruin]

I don't understand your point

[fair merlin]

That is not a dedicated server.

[magic orchid]

you do not want KVM

[late ruin]

Isn't a dedicated something on which you installed everything yourself

[fair merlin]

"Bare metal". Not a KVM server.

Not a VM.

Often, yes.

[magic orchid]

just search for "dedicated servers"

[fair merlin]

You are going to need to do a lot of work to keep Folia running.

[late ruin]

This was a partnership

[magic orchid]

doesnt matter.
Folia does not like VMs, the reason on why you use a VM doesnt change that

[late ruin]

Alright

I messaged them about it

[fair merlin]

Please read up on the documentation, FAQs, and developer limitations of Folia for any future questions.

[late ruin]

One more question

Pretty sure it's not included in the docs

What fork changes only the pearl mechanic so it works as intended?

[viral coral]

no idea since we don't support forks

[fair merlin]

We don't know anything about forks.

If you run a fork of Folia you'll get help from someone else.

[late ruin]

Do you know a fix then?

[fair merlin]

I do not.

[late ruin]

Just crashed

What do I send

[fair merlin]

Nothing. Your hardware is underpowered for Folia.

Please switch to Paper or upgrade your hardware.

[late ruin]

Okay

[sleek scaffold]

anyone here own an 9950x dedicated running folia? can i get some spec about mainboard? which one should i use for 9950x?

[fair merlin]

Would probably recommend not purchasing hardware for a server, but rather renting a dedicated server so you can upgrade as needs increase/specs improve.

[sleek scaffold]

ive already prepared and confusing which mainboard best

[fair merlin]

There’s no “best motherboard” for Folia. You want a fast system. If you’re trying to compare server parts you should try some online resources.

But I’d really advise against spending thousand(s) on a server.

[magic orchid]

I can give some context on that.
I decided to selfhost my server fully aware that it is not even close to being the smartest idea.
I spend thousands of euros on hardware, and hundreds of hours on troubleshooting my networking.
If i would have gone with renting a server from Hetzner (as an example), i would have saved more than 1.5k by now and wouldnt have to worry about networking at all.

Renting a dedicated server is 100% the better way of hosting a folia server.

[sleek scaffold]

ok guys, tysm

[modest tiger]

oop

i guess its bad i already spent 700$ on a 9950x and 1k on a motherboard

oopsies

oh well

i nice homelab for me

[magic orchid]

just because the other option is a lot better, does not mean that selfhosting has no upsides.
i selfhost my folia server just for the fun of hosting.

[umbral vault]

its crazy that people spending a lot of money for a folia server that probably end it up overkill

[modest tiger]

well tbh im not using folia atm

i got these specs as im running multiple services off the same physical machine

[viral coral]

the fuck kinda motherboard are you buying for 1k

[umbral vault]

for real

[harsh valve]

Should I use folia for a 100 member server?

[scarlet ginkgo]

will they be spread out/in different worlds?

if yes, and if you have minimum 16 cores (a bit less can also be good enough) then sure

also make sure your plugins and datapacks are compatible with folia or find some alternatives

worst case hire a developer or write plugins yourself

[harsh valve]

Yep It's an SMP

[harsh valve]

8 cores so what?

[scarlet ginkgo]

well, folia might not be too helpful in this case

[harsh valve]

The maximum number of cores is 8 on the hosting service I'm using

[scarlet ginkgo]

the docs recommend minimum 16 cores, but you’re free to test if folia is more performant than paper for your setup

if it is then go ahead and use it

[harsh valve]

I understand what you mean

Do you have any file optimization settings or anything that can improve folia performance?

Or should we leave it as default?

[scarlet ginkgo]

configuring folia is just a matter of thread allocation in paper-global.yml

that’s all the optimisations folia “exposes”

there’s also the grid-exponent which can help create more regions if you set it lower but i wouldn’t recommend that with 8 cores

[harsh valve]

I understand now and will try it today

I need your help if any problems arise, is that okay?

[scarlet ginkgo]

just ask in this channel

[umbral vault]

you can free to use it in 8 cores, but dont expect good things from folia.

[harsh valve]

Why is that? I heard that folia helps improve servers for smp games with its multi-threading mechanism

[umbral vault]

unless ur not obey folia rules

[magic orchid]

The way folia works makes it very very context dependant.
If all of your players are very close to each other at all times, then folia might even give worse performance than paper

[harsh valve]

That's pretty bad then

Do you guys know what donutsmp uses?

[rare hare]

Folia I believe

[magic orchid]

They use a custom fork of folia.
But keep in mind that they also do sharding

[harsh valve]

I know they use multiple interconnected folia servers

[harsh valve]

I'm working on an SMP server do you think they could get together?

[magic orchid]

Yes, thats what sharding means.
But to be clear: they use a fork of folia thats been heavily optimized for that.
You wont get the same result with regular folia

[harsh valve]

They have many developers to do this

I understand that

[magic orchid]

It depends.
If players build their bases more than 1k blocks apart from each other folia might help.
Otherwise paper would be better

[harsh valve]

Most of them I saw were separated by more than 10,000 blocks

[magic orchid]

Then folia might be a good idea for your server.
Keep in mind the high hardware requirements though

[harsh valve]

What do you think if I create 3 overworld maps, split them into smaller parts, and then link them using commands like tpa?

This fulfills the requirement that all players are always kept at a distance from each other

[magic orchid]

Thats kinda what folia already does on the fly.
Basicaly splits up the world into multiple independant regions.
Only that folia splits and merges the regiond dynamicaly depending on how far away players are

[harsh valve]

I think it would be suitable for an smp server

But I only have 8 cores to run

It might not be possible

[magic orchid]

I think if ur bases are 10k blocks apart, then folia should be very good

[harsh valve]

They are definitely more than 10,000 blocks apart

[magic orchid]

It is recommended to have at least 16 cores/32 threads.
But it is still possible to get a benefit from folia compared to paper with 8 cores/16 threads.
Just not the full potential

[harsh valve]

I'll give it a try

[umbral vault]

Start with giving 8-12 threads to regional-threading

8-10 is okay, then seperate threads to other loads

netty, io, workers...

[harsh valve]

I have provided the maximum possible number of threading is 8 cores

[umbral vault]

oh no

[magic orchid]

Are you sure you are talking about cores and not threads?
Most cpus have 2 threads per core.
Unless you have a virtual machine, you shouldnt use folia in that case anyways

[umbral vault]

^^^

[harsh valve]

I have 8 cores

Sorry I made a slight mistake

[magic orchid]

So you have 16 threads?

[harsh valve]

Yep

8 cores AMD Ryzen 9 9950X

Perhaps I can't use folia

[vast crypt]

You can still try it, but performance may vary. I've found that folia works fine on lower core count cpus, up to a point, but results may vary.

[harsh valve]

I'll give it a try

[solar yew]

What do you guys expect, how much player you can handle without mspt spikes for pvp on an smp with an

CPU
AMD EPYC GENOA 9654
96 c / 192 t
2,4 GHz / 3,55 GHz
128GB DDR5 Ram

with obv an infra node for velocity

folia

[umbral vault]

what is the network and io?

[solar yew]

https://www.ovhcloud.com/de/bare-metal/scale/scale-a6/ this server right here

[umbral vault]

hmm

[solar yew]

rn we are on amd ryzen 9 9950X3D and we can handle 500 players without any lag but we want to handle more

500 is limit, all over 500 starts to get mspt spikes

[livid crag]

Make sure Folia will actually work for you

I see your name and assume this is a PvP server?

[solar yew]

No it's an SMP but very PVP based

[livid crag]

If your players are actively pvping, it will nlikely to work

[solar yew]

Like Donut

What is your option to handle more players? Is there a way without multi-server

[livid crag]

Folia + sharding is the way but you will need some developers to make it work. That’s how donutSMP did theirs

[solar yew]

wdym with "sharding" ?

[livid crag]

They have mutiple dedicated machine and stitch the server together to make it feels like one big server.

[solar yew]

oh i see like cloud net?

do you know people that can develope that? we got an big budget for this and we need it so bad

[fair merlin]

We don't, no. And it's not using software we make, so not really sure where to direct you.

[solar yew]

okay thanks

preciated ur answers helped me atleast

[slow grail]

The best you can do without custom solution is probably an unaffiliated project called multipaper

[late ruin]

Would 16 cores and 32 threads on a 9950x be good for folia?

it's a kvm not a dedicated

[inner swift]

Shared implies the performance you get is unpredictable

It could work well one hour and then completely tank the next hour

[fair merlin]

As we've said many times - don't use a KVM for Folia.

[late ruin]

How to correctly allocate 16 cores and 32 threads for folia

[magic orchid]

look at the documentation on the website

[frosty helm]

any way to increase the time the watchdog triggers that a region is blocked ticking?

I can't seem to get it to trigger at 60 or so seconds

[viral stone]

I would assume it's just using the setting inside of spigot.yml?

otherwise, there is the earlier warnings that paper produces to give info before the server gets stuck

[frosty helm]

not talking about the server restart on crash feature

just the early warnings

tried increased them in paper-global.yml with a few zeros

still warns after 5 seconds

I wanna test how my plugin would work with a thread being blocked for a few, maybe more than a few, seconds, and track stacktraces, without the watchdog spamming the console

[bold osprey]

Try https://docs.papermc.io/paper/reference/system-properties/#disablewatchdog to true

[frosty helm]

tried

still gives the watchdog errors

folia ones

[harsh valve]

What kind of server are you using, and how many cores does it have, to support 500 players simultaneously?

[late ruin]

where do I find Netty io

in config

also what should I set grid exponent to?

[late ruin]

anyone?

@magic orchid

[magic orchid]

it depends on your setup.
netty threads can be set as an argument on the java command.
(Also no need to ping a specific person in a context like this)

[fair merlin]

Do not ping people. Ask a question and wait for an answer.

[late ruin]

16 cores 32 threads

[late ruin]

20 minutes

[fair merlin]

20 minutes of what?

[late ruin]

no response

[fair merlin]

People here are helping out of the kindness of their hearts.

This is not paid software. You need to adjust your expectations.

[late ruin]

[late ruin]

bro

why did I get warned

1 hour after

moos helped me before

that's why I pinged him

[fair merlin]

It says right there why you got warned.

[chilly kernel]

Hello guys

I can use folia with 8 threads?

Or its better to use papermc

[magic orchid]

with 8 threads you really should use normal paper instead of folia

[chilly kernel]

I will have better performance?
Some guy told me that folia is better cus it is multithreaded

[magic orchid]

folia wants at least 32 threads.
if you have less than that and do not know exactly what you are doing paper will be better for you in 95% of cases

[fair merlin]

Paper also uses more than one thread.

Having things "multi-threaded" is not a magic solution. And people tend to oversimplify things being "better" because of it

[chilly kernel]

What the hell

Okay

Tysm both

[late ruin]

Best hosting for price to performance?

[livid crag]

ovh or hetzner are probably your best price. Being a server owner means you need to do a lot of online research yourself. If you can’t do that, you probably shouldn’t be hosting a server. For future general question not related to Folia, use Google first or ask #general @late ruin

[royal swallow]

Used both OVH and Hetzner.

OVH
Pros:

• Really good ddos protection

Cons:

• bit more pricey then Hetzner
• slow support

Hetzner
Pros:

• Fast support
• You get greater specs for the money

Cons:

• Really bad ddos protection

Right now, I use a dedicated machine at Hetzner and tunnel the traffic through a cheap OVH vps. Works good so far.

[late ruin]

okay

[magic orchid]

can an inefficient memory usage ("ballooning") cause a massive amount of lag despite having stable 20 TPS in all regions?
My memory isnt full but when i constantly refresh the spark report while the server is running i see that the memory usage is very very "jumpy".
like it jumps between 4GB and 12GB.
I have set a -Xmx of 28GB.

[late ruin]

how to get a perfect jvm command for folia?

[inner swift]

No such thing exists

[umbral vault]

"perfect jvm command"

[fair merlin]

Please keep editorial commentary out of help channels.

[river crown]

So folia is useless?

[umbral vault]

no?

Folia's purpose is not suitable for everyone.

[river crown]

so paper is better in every case

[umbral vault]

no??

[magic orchid]

Paper is better in any case except when your players are very spread out from each other.
Folia is very usecase specific and for 90% of servers maybe even worse than paper.

[river crown]

So Folia is better on huge worlds?

[umbral vault]

uh... It depends on the game mode and objective.

[umbral vault]

If you only seperate players good

[umbral vault]

And...

[magic orchid]

Yes, but only if your players are far a apart from each other.
If your players all build their base right next to each other then no

[river crown]

Okay

[high walrus]

Know what I'll be using for skyblock now

[umbral vault]

now?

good luck on converting plugins with folia supported.

also you should not use kvm/lxc for folia

[high walrus]

I run a proxy, I was debating what was best for skyblock as we haven't added that world yet

[rapid acorn]

is folia stable?

[umbral vault]

😐

[magic orchid]

It is stable as in it does not crash constantly.
It does have lots of stuff not implemented tho.
Mainly the scoreboard, datapack functions, dynamic world loading, some ingame commands, and some API events

[rapid acorn]

i understand it's maintained by one person? so i suppose it could take a long time before those things are implemented

[magic orchid]

Some things will probably never be implemented due to technical limitations

[lusty totem]

Hi, I’m wondering if you can adjust the size of a region in Folia?

[timber igloo]

you can change the grid exponent, but if your players are too close together (~1000 blocks or less), you are probably out of luck

[late ruin]

What should I change grid exponent to?

If it's just an anarchy server should I use folia, big world border.

Players are usually spread out

[magic orchid]

if players are spread out to be at least 1k blocks apart from each other most of the time, then Folia is a good choice.
else: use paper instead

[stuck spear]

I can not get the Locator Bar to work.....have typed /gamerule locatorBar true
But it dont work

[hexed ice]

the locator bar is disabled on folia

[stuck spear]

oh ok

that sucks tho

[timber igloo]

if you really want it you can just reimplement it

sohuld not be too difficult

[real tendon]

I mean, it kinda is given how it's structured(it's also stupidly slow). The waypoint manager needs a full rewrite to work with region threading

And if u tried to make it work with the new structure and got it working, it would still be slow af which isn't any good at all

Some of the ways to optimize it are very simple tho

[timber igloo]

no i mean as a plugin

[real tendon]

AHHHH mb

[umbral vault]

as a plugin

[real tendon]

My apologies lmao

[umbral vault]

uh

[cinder eagle]

I'm using Folia, and EnderPearl Stasis isn't working on the server. How can I fix this?

[inner swift]

Which kind?

[cinder eagle]

Are you familiar with EnderPearl teleportation systems that use soul sand and water? When a player throws a pearl into this system and then moves far away—either by using /rtp or by traveling normally—the EnderPearl disappears. I need to fix this issue.

[livid crag]

That will not work with Folia and probably would never work due to how regions is defined.

[cinder eagle]

Doesn’t DonutSMP use Folia? This system works there

Or another smp servers

[finite hinge]

It can probably be patched to work (with a delay for scheduling across regions) but I suspect since it's a bit of a niche exploit and sounds like a pain to wire up leaf just patched it out to get things working

[short elbow]

This is a shot in the dark, but you could use https://jd.papermc.io/folia/1.21.11/org/bukkit/World.html#addPluginChunkTicket(int,int,org.bukkit.plugin.Plugin), just be very careful about cleaning it up when the enderpearl disappears, also keep in mind that you would have to carefully track the enderpearl across chunks. Could be messy

[sleek scaffold]

hallo, how can i run 2+ instances in my ddedicated? i got 9950x, should i use docker? or taskset core?

[magic orchid]

You want the whole cpu for a folia instance so running multiple on that cpu is not a good idea

[sleek scaffold]

ohh

as i know its has 16*2

so i think its would be okay to split into 2 iinstance?

[magic orchid]

And folia wants a minimum of 32 threads per instance

[sleek scaffold]

btw how can i fix when thread locked by folia process?

like the thread locked by the java process so ssh got delay

i cannot stop my server when this occurred

[paper siren]

what

[magic orchid]

Are you saying that folia is overloading your cpu to the point that other processes (SSH) are having issues?

[sleek scaffold]

yes yes

[magic orchid]

Thats not normal

How do you know that folia is causing this?

Also

[sleek scaffold]

ehh ive seen that folia incompatible with lots of plugins, and sometimes cause thread lock when plugins does not worked properly on folia

so i think this one cause delay on my ssh

[magic orchid]

Nonono, DO NOT run plugins that dont explicitly support folia

[sleek scaffold]

just wondering if there's any problems in future in folia cause same issues so i cannot shutdown properly

[magic orchid]

No, the issue you are having is not a common thing with folia.
If you use plugins that dont support folia, then you are pretty much asking for trouble

[sleek scaffold]

k got it

[magic orchid]

im having unstable ping on my server (same issue i already asked about a few weeks ago).
just as a sanity check, this is not healthy, right?

specificaly that the 95%ile is the same as the max

[fair merlin]

Send a spark report, please, not a screenshot.

[magic orchid]

i cant really do that as i got the issue where it always just says "There is no data in this report".
also couldnt update spark today as their download website was broken.

for now i just need a yes or no answer if my theory is correct or at least worth looking into

[finite hinge]

95% being the same as max just means it's consistently busy, no?

[atomic bison]

hey, I have a Crystal PvP practice/sandbox server that leverages arenas (960x960 arena dimensions) with 961 arenas in one world. For my server specifications we currently use an I9-14900K, 192GB DDR5 RAM dedicated server.
Would I benefit from Folia?

[sterile crag]

I mean it depends on if your arenas are far enough apart ig, although at that point why not just put them in different worlds, as those are guaranteed to be on different threads

[atomic bison]

more worlds is worse

even with PWT

I am using Leaf right now

[atomic bison]

They aren’t, do you think I should spread them out?

[sterile crag]

If you want to use folia. See this

[umbral vault]

PWT (parallel world ticking) seperates worlds into another threads which is not a good thingy for plugins. (some plugins may not work)

folia is already have this feature by regionizer

but whole system is based on regional multithreading

[lean forum]

what host configuration is suitable for using Folia?

[fair merlin]

I don’t understand the question. Can you try to elaborate?

[lean forum]

I mean, what kind of computer configuration is needed to run Folia efficiently?

[sudden tusk]

Do you mean what hardware?

[lean forum]

Yes

[sudden tusk]

A popular option is a higher-tier ryzen. Do note you don't want to be sharing this box with others. Rented dedi.

[lean forum]

Is a shared CPU hosting using Ryzen 5900x/5800x powerful enough? I plan to run a SMP server with many player.

[sudden tusk]

shared cpu? Like, on a shared host? Or a VPS? If you're just able to get that, you should stick to just paper.

[lean forum]

Ok thanks

[dusty aurora]

speaking of CPUs, is Folia worth trying on dedicated Ryzen 5 7600X?

[finite hinge]

I mean, it might be worth trying on a Core 2 Duo, there are situations where it's going to have an advantage over Paper no matter what hardware you have

It's unlikely to have an advantage over Paper unless you have 12+ cores though

[dusty aurora]

is the multithreading overhead that high on Folia?

[finite hinge]

No but Paper uses more than one core already

[dusty aurora]

not for the main loop though

[finite hinge]

The others are used for networking (including compression), chunk IO, and chunk generation

If you have a lot of players those threads are going to use a lot of CPU time so trying to share those CPUs with region threads might just make things slower

Really to answer this question you have to know how Paper works, how Folia works, and how your server is going to work

It's something your development team should be figuring out

Along with planning how they're going to rewrite all your plugins

[dusty aurora]

I am the development team though

and I do know how Paper works compared to vanilla quite well

[finite hinge]

I meant as far as CPU utilization

Like if you know for your expected player count and gameplay your netty threads will use up 4 cores on their own then you know using something with only 6 cores isn't the best idea with Folia since there isn't any to spare

[dusty aurora]

what I don't know is how big is the multithreading overhead on Folia and whether trying it is worth it given our current hardware

[dusty aurora]

absolutely, though even in peak player counts I only see ~40% CPU utilization

[finite hinge]

Oh yeah, and remember the JVM wants some CPU time for JITs and GC

[finite hinge]

40% on each core? If you mean total system that's a useless number, you're measuring the wrong thing

[dusty aurora]

40% overall, right

[finite hinge]

afaik if you assume each Folia region can handle about 80% of what a Paper server can you won't be too far off

[dusty aurora]

(~500%/1200% to be precise but you get that point)

[finite hinge]

I mean, I think the overhead is usually less than 20% but yeah

But of course that's going to depend on what your gameplay is like and what your plugins are trying to do as well

[dusty aurora]

the world border is vanilla and players are spread out quite far, so that's one of the advantages of Folia here

[finite hinge]

The only way to know definitively if your particular server design and CPU are a good fit for Folia is to try it. Getting a confident guess would probably involve the kind of thinking and planning I only do for work 😛

Beyond that I can only give you the generalities and you have to figure it out

[dusty aurora]

side question, can Folia do thread per world through some configuration changes (and would it make sense)?

[finite hinge]

The more cores you have the more likely Folia is to help, unless your server design doesn't allow for enough regions to be created

Thread per world is just what happens if you don't spread players out enough

Each world has at minimum 1 region

[dusty aurora]

well, fair enough

[finite hinge]

There is no configuration option to force it to only have 1 region and simplify your programming model, you always have to program assuming there are many

[dusty aurora]

would it make sense to do that intentionally to eliminate the overhead for low core counts though?

[finite hinge]

No, there generally aren't many people in the nether or end

Mojang tried doing thread per world once in snapshots, they ran in to a bunch of problems since they didn't do it right but they backed it out instead of trying to fix it since it wasn't worth the effort

[dusty aurora]

absolutely, I already default to using Folia friendly apis on Paper to make it less painful to move in the future

[dusty aurora]

makes sense

[dusty aurora]

oh when was that?

[finite hinge]

Between 1.5 and 1.6 iirc

Not sure if it even made it to a snapshot or if they just talked about trying to get it in for a snapshot but it was too broken

I hope it wasn't the latter because they might have said it somewhere non-public and then whoops 😄

[dusty aurora]

interesting

[wet lance]

Hello I am going to start a folia minecraft server and I would like to get suggestions about where to get a dedicated server host for this endeavor.

[inner swift]

OVH, Hetzner

[wispy current]

I hope, Folia gets it's update to 26.1 soon, after the Paper Release ❤️

[leaden edge]

fingers crossed

whats the usual eta on these things

[ancient sun]

is folia like production ready now

what vanilla features are missing

[frosty shale]

Prob same as paper

It adds multithread support

[ancient sun]

i know

[frosty shale]

Not anything else so anything that changed to get multithread support has changed if I'm not wrong

[ancient sun]

oh so its fully functional now>?

[frosty shale]

And I would not really recommend folia rn as most plugins just don't have the folia flag on while they won't have many issues

[ancient sun]

but i gotta port my own plugins to folia right

yea most my plugins custom anyways

i dont need it yet

[frosty shale]

How many cores does ur server have

[ancient sun]

like 24

i think imma make my own system instead of folia since its skyblock based it should be easy to multi shard

[frosty shale]

You could try canvas and if nothing breaks go with it

24 is..... A lot

[hexed ice]

plenty of people have already been running folia in production for many years now, folia still disables some commands that the majority of servers won't really care about https://docs.papermc.io/folia/faq/#what-commands-does-folia-disable

[ancient sun]

i have like 5 of them

lol

[ancient sun]

where can i see how the system works?

like how does it assign users to a shard

[frosty shale]

Wdym

[wicked mantle]

https://docs.papermc.io/folia/reference/overview/

[hexed ice]

let's not recommend random forks here

[wicked mantle]

You probably more care about how the regionizer works

[frosty shale]

Ok

[frosty shale]

And if you know how patches work look here https://github.com/PaperMC/Folia

[ancient sun]

what is that

[wicked mantle]

An unrelated fork

[ancient sun]

is there benchmarks? like curious how many players one 24 core with good coded plugins can handle

[frosty shale]

Bstats.org

[wicked mantle]

that is not a benchmark

[ancient sun]

??

bro

😭

[frosty shale]

Some useful stats

[wicked mantle]

nor is there any way to predict what your specs will handle

[ancient sun]

just curious for the typical machine

[wicked mantle]

At least 1 player

[ancient sun]

wtf

it can handle 1?

[wicked mantle]

It depends on so many different factors there is no prediction

[ancient sun]

yes but the avg

[wicked mantle]

You could have all the players in a single region and it'll perform worse than a paper server

[ancient sun]

for a machine

[frosty shale]

Try running benchmarks yourself

[ancient sun]

my users are spread out

thtas why im interested

[wicked mantle]

okay

[frosty shale]

I don't know or have tools for that

[wicked mantle]

I've already told you

[ancient sun]

so your telling me no ones done benchmarks

[wicked mantle]

It depends on so many different factors there is no prediction

[ancient sun]

average

[frosty shale]

No one has done a benchmark on 24 cores and x players and x and x etc

There is no average

[ancient sun]

i think i could handle like 350 players on a standard pufferfish server already

[ancient sun]

maybe i should be the first

[frosty shale]

That's the most accurate it gets

[ancient sun]

are you AI

[fluid belfry]

Do any of you guys know how to run an fake bot text on a server to determine user limits?

[ancient sun]

yes

rust mc bot on github

its very good and fast

[fluid belfry]

Thank you 🙏

[wicked mantle]

Bots won't ever show the actual limits

You'll never be able to replicate actual player behavior

[fluid belfry]

Ik but I want a rough controlled idea that is true tho

[ancient sun]

..

that depends heavily on the type of server

the rust mc bots move, send packets, crouch, roam etc

[fluid belfry]

Rn I’m running it as a paper but I’ve been looking into switching over to folia cuz it’s been growing and I wanna make sure I could keep up with the demand

[ancient sun]

well what gamemode is ur server

[wicked mantle]

Folia is not just a swap a jar switch

You need to plan your server around it

[frosty shale]

A lot of plugins may and will break

[ancient sun]

yea every plugin will break

[fluid belfry]

Idk if you guys are having this but all my bedrock players are soo pissed at me and I’m like just wait till it’s updated please lol

I run little to no

It’s an anarchy server

[ancient sun]

hm

[fluid belfry]

Basically only grim

[ancient sun]

a lot of plugins?

[frosty shale]

And geyser

For bedrock right?

[fluid belfry]

Nah maybe 5-6

[wicked mantle]

If your players aren't really spread out then you'll get no benefit from Folia

[fluid belfry]

Yes

[ancient sun]

Should be easy to port

[fluid belfry]

They are decently spread

[frosty shale]

What is the list?

[ancient sun]

you will benefit

[fluid belfry]

Spawn gets hectic but everyone pics there spot

[frosty shale]

Also if bedrock players are having issues there is an geyser extension to fix lag in high cords

[fluid belfry]

No way

What’s the name

I’ve had issues with that a lot actually

[frosty shale]

Wait a sec

[wicked mantle]

This convo doesn't really seem folia focused anymore

[frosty shale]

Geyser floatingpoints

[frosty shale]

Yeah

[wicked mantle]

This is a good way to see if folia is good for you

[ancient sun]

my server is skyblock server but

i think it'd be easier in my case to make my own mutli instance system like skyblock

what do you think

i think its more scalable right?

[wicked mantle]

That's a convo not for the folia channel

[ancient sun]

it is

im asking what you think

should i use folia can it scale like

infinitely

[wicked mantle]

nothing can scale infinitely

[ancient sun]

horizonality

[wicked mantle]

Folia can be put behind velocity if you're asking that

[fluid belfry]

Thank you alot 🙏💯

[ancient sun]

yes but like

if the main server reaches its limits

what can i do after that

to keep people on the same server

[wicked mantle]

You don't

[frosty shale]

Nothing

[wicked mantle]

You use velocity and have different servers

[ancient sun]

so after i reach

1000 players or folias limit

will need another folia instance?

[wicked mantle]

Yes, there is no sharding system

It's just regions on a single server

[ancient sun]

Ok np

[wicked mantle]

It's all described in the docs

[umbral vault]

Overall, custom distributed systems needs custom solutions.

You are on your own atp lol

Folia is pretty okay if you want to handle a lot players, you have to spread them tho.

[ancient sun]

yea

[umbral vault]

Otherwise there is nothing exist like handing infinity players in a single server

cpu/packet fanout

explodes

scaling can be happen if you have money

[versed vault]

There is any plans tu make folia « Clustering » ? Like having multiple servers for horizontal scaling ?

[wicked mantle]

probably not

[versed vault]

I think it was the project of Multi Paper or something like that, but it wasn’t stable

[wicked mantle]

I only say probably because at the end of the day it's whatever leaf wants to do with folia really

[crisp stone]

I know Paper already has dev workings but is Folia receiving similar attention or is that more or less a after paper is finished type flow?

[daring nimbus]

Folia is a fork of Paper, so Paper needs to be ready first

[fair merlin]

And Folia tends to be slower than Paper, FWIW.

[timber igloo]

as a general rule of thumb a lot less people are working on folia and you should be expected to either do a lot yourself or wait a long time

[crisp stone]

Gotcha thanks guys

[thorny snow]

Can you run Folia on more than one CPU now?

I am looking into a quad cpu system

4x xeons

[livid crag]

No

[thorny snow]

[naive fable]

Didnt this add support?
https://github.com/PaperMC/Folia/commit/eee7128bc810195ad758ea5ace1b72c600896d3b

[wet lance]

Are you familiar with these companies customer support. Also, do you know if it is easy to scale with these companies. Thanks for your help.

[wet lance]

Have you found a good company to host your server?

[thorny snow]

I buy old unused servers from hosting companies, then run on my home

[wet lance]

Oh yikes... I would never do that. You are brave.

[thorny snow]

The one I've used for beffy machines previously was ReliableSites. They have awesome hardware, good pricing, decent support (if related to hardware issues), but terrible networking. You'll need a dedicated protection service

[thorny snow]

I have then hosted on another small house in my land, on their own network, only exposed to the internet via a cheap vps I buy from a friend

[viral stone]

That commit adds some improvements for locality but it's not perfect, stuff can still bounce around as regions move, merge, etc; But, NUMA is always going to be a sore point for this kinda thing

Nothing stops you using more than 1 CPU, however, it's not that it's "unsupported", it's just NUMA is a headache in codebases not designed for it

[crisp stone]

I currently use ovh for my server and the support is pretty decent but you don't really need them most of the time

If you have extra questions about them specifically feel free to DM me

[wild dock]

How is folia different to paper?

[cosmic pawn]

Apparently player's items can despawn if they die and stay in the deathscreen for 5 minutes
Is there a "common wisdom" way to make it so that the items despawn counter doesn't go down when they're loaded but no alive players are nearby

[magic orchid]

That is just the normal 5 minute despawn timer that applies to all dropped items.
Either you modify that timer (which will affect all items and might cause performance issues), use the gamerule immediate respawn so its impossible for players to stay in the death screen or you find/make a simple plugin that resets the timer for every item close to a dead player on a regular schedule.
Given that this is a normal game mechanic, i would just tell the players that going afk is their own risk

Using a "gravestone" plugin is another solution ig

[fair merlin]

Don’t do this. They can google something themselves but sending a screenshot or a link to a google search isn’t really “helping”.

[timber igloo]

also frankly usually especially with nieche technologies like this it makes up stuff all of the time. like sometimes its coincidentally accurate because someone wrote something super detailed in a PR but often times its just going to say "mostly" "often" "usually" "especially" with absolutely no detail and depth or blatantly wrong things

[cosmic pawn]

I wouldn’t have posted it if I didn’t think the screenshot was helpful

If I had copy-pasted the response by text would you have a problem?

[cosmic pawn]

This apparently doesn’t happen in Paper

It’s only folia that has this happen

[magic orchid]

What i wanted to say is basically, that this is not an intentional thing.
Its a byproduct by the way folia works.

[cosmic pawn]

Right. I’m surprised no there isn’t a known workaround for it

“Make item despawn counter count down only when live players are loading chunks”

[viral stone]

because items are in charge of their own counters

I'd imagine that it's just not worth the perf cost of trying to bodge around it, ideally you'd just have some state where stuff doesn't tick but I'd imagine that's the headache

[magic orchid]

You could implement it yourself.
Make a simple plugin that runs every X seconds that iterates over every player, then iterates over every item entity nearby and if the player is dead, reset the timer.

Its just something that most servers dont care about

This "problem" only occurs when players are afk anyways.
I personally dont consider players who dont play the game to be important but you do you.
I presented all the possible solutions that i could think of so either ignore it or do one of those

[cosmic pawn]

AFK-ing is a huge part of minecraft

[magic orchid]

For others maybe, i dont play a game just to....... Not be playing the game

[cosmic pawn]

Is it still just SpottedLeaf that’s the main dev?

Or do other devs work on Folia too

[viral stone]

Mostly spotted

it's a complex issue

deceptively so

[wet lance]

Need help on choosing a dedicated server for my Minecraft Folia server. 1. AMD EPYC 7443P 2.85 GHz 24Cores 48 threads. It is a rather expensive server to pay for on a monthly biases. 2. 2x Intel Xeon E5-2660 v2 2.20 GHz 20Cores 40Threads. Number 2 is the less expensive option. Hoping to get some feedback in regards to whether the second option will work and what I would expect if I go with that option rather than the AMD EPYC. Also, if anyone else has any suggestions about other dedicated servers that I could consider that are less expensive that would be very helpful. Thanks for your time.

[inner swift]

Don't even consider the Xeon

But, in general, what are you doing with this server?

[finite hinge]

The Xeon is a 13 year old CPU that wasn't very good for running MC servers even when it was new

[wet lance]

I am trying to get the best server I can in order to be able to grow a Minecraft community that would allow me to grow for some time before having to scale up the hardware.

[wet lance]

AMD Ryzen 9 7900
3.7 GHz 12Cores 24Threads is another option that I can choose. It is less expensive than AMD EPYC.

[wet lance]

Another option is the AMD Ryzen 9 7950X3D
4.2 GHz 16Cores 32Threads

[inner swift]

I have to be honest, this sounds like a big commitment for the possibility of growing a community

[finite hinge]

That 7443P has almost 3x the single core performance as the 2660v2 btw

[inner swift]

And scalability also depends on your development direction, Folia is going to be harder than Paper to scale in this sense

[finite hinge]

7950X3D is probably even better for Folia than the 7443P

According to the readme the 7900 would be fine if you pregenerate your world

Whether you actually need to do that or not depends on your server setup and players

[wet lance]

Where is this readme at? I guess I should look at that. 😉

[finite hinge]

Huh, the readme actually just says 16 cores, could have sworn it had a bit in there saying 12 if pregenerated

https://github.com/PaperMC/Folia/#faq

[wet lance]

Hm... Development is something I was going to do once we got a server up and running. Have some ideas and I have been looking at all the Folia plugins and have made a list of which ones I want to install. Trying to keep it as vanilla as possible and add minimal plugins in order to make the server different than other server choices. But for the most part right now bottle necked on the server choice in order to get started.

[inner swift]

The hardware requirements boil down to high single threaded performance (to handle demanding regions) and plenty threads to handle the regionizing overheads

Plugins and whether issues/limitations will arise are a concern, and also player spread is a must, just letting you know so that you don't base your expensive hardware choice on making a Folia server and it ends up not being for you

I would suggest having the full implementation details and development down before buying the hardware

That said, the 7950x3D is a fairly safe choice for both a Folia or a Paper server

[wet lance]

Hm... so by implementation you are referring to plugins, whether to pre-generate the world or not, server borders etc. ?

[inner swift]

You should have everything planned if not already fully made so that you don't find out midway that you can't use command blocks, datapacks with command functions, respawn event in plugins, etc

[wet lance]

Is there any documentation regarding this that I could read in order to better plan this out.

[lean garnet]

does someone know why spark doesnt work for my Server?

[livid crag]

You can ask in spark support Discord. This is not relate to this channel topic

[lean garnet]

what is their discord?

[livid crag]

you can find it from the place where you download spark from

[lean garnet]

i cant find it

[daring nimbus]

(tbf it is a bit tiny) https://discord.gg/PAGT2fu

[wet lance]

What requirements does Folia have in regards to RAM with a dedicated server?

[slow grail]

If you are worried about RAM upgrade your hardware before using folia

How many players do you expect?

[wet lance]

I am getting ready to purchase a new server. What would be the best RAM to start with? We are just starting out so traffic won't be that busy right now but I would like to get it set up with the right RAM so that I don't have to upgrade it later.

[wet lance]

I would like to be able to handle at least 500 players to start.

[daring nimbus]

https://cubxity.dev/blog/folia-test-july-2023 probably about this hardware. Though that was just 500 players - not 500 players actively building farms, plugins, etc etc

[slow grail]

128gb of ram on the machine should be more than enough

The main bottleneck will be cpu and not ram.

[wet lance]

Thanks... I am looking that this server. AMD Ryzen 9 7950X3D 4.2 GHz 16Cores 32Threads

[slow grail]

It will probably struggle at 500 players especially if they build farms etc.

If they dont do anything then maybe

[wet lance]

Hm... how about this one then? Nvidia L4 24GB Cores
32
Threads
64
Speed
3 GHz
RAM
128 GB
Storage
1.9 TB NVMe
Bandwidth
10 TB
CPU
Dual AMD EPYC 9124

[daring nimbus]

I mean that GPU is gonna be completely useless

[wet lance]

So this server would be a good place to start. AMD Ryzen 9 7950X3D 4.2 GHz 16Cores 32Threads

[daring nimbus]

I would go for a 9950X3D if you can

[cosmic pawn]

If you don’t have any community yet, start a server on cheap hardware then upgrade it as the community grows.

You’re gonna demoralise yourself if you buy expensive hardware and have 3 players online to start with

It takes 1 sitting to transfer everything from one machine to another, so just start cheaply on a Paper server on cheap hardware

When the community grows, you get more revenue, and you need more power, then you upgrade

[wet lance]

I created and ran a large chess playing site from 2004-2024 and I went through many growing pains with that approach. Based on what I learned from that 20 year experience I really don't want to go through all that again. What I am trying to do is find a middle ground that allows me to have enough time to determine if I will be able to grow it into a larger community without the hassle and the pains of having to move the community onto another server which, in my experience, always creates issues for the community and stress for me. So basically I do agree with what you are saying but I would rather have a better foundation set up before beginning this endeavor. I will give myself one year to see if I can make it work. If after that time it does not work I will be out. The approach you are recommending is correct but I want to start a little bit up the chain a bit so that if it works I have a little breathing room before I have to upgrade everything. Also, starting with cheaper hardware will not allow me to use Folia which, I think, will lead to a new generation of Minecraft communities in the near future. Right now the landscape is full of small Minecraft servers that continually have issues with lag because of the single threaded set up. They have to over optimize the server in order to prevent lag for the community. They get so wrapped up in it that in some cases they literally have optimized the world to the point that nothing moves in the world. I was on one server where the animals did not even move because they had it over optimized. Mobs are lobotomized as well. It really leads to the feeling of a dead world. I have also seen servers that stack mobs to prevent lag as well. This seems rather extreme to me and this is what I am also trying to avoid. Anyway that is my goal. Again I agree with you but I think being able to run a Folia server is important and a Folia sever requires a bigger machine with at least 16 cores in order to do this.

I have also been reading about Multipaper and Shredded Paper. Not sure if this could be an alternative approach to using Folia or not which might allow me to take your approach since Multipaper allows you to grow by adding new servers connected with BungeeCord, Velocity, or TCPShield.

[paper siren]

Be aware that using more non-standard software will increase the problems you have to deal with

using Paper is easy, using Folia adds limitations and problems, using something like Multipaper means you are on your own, more or less

[wet lance]

Own your own in terms of plugins? Or in general not enough people using those forks and very little development going on?

[paper siren]

with everything

[magic orchid]

Most plugins dont support folia so for a lot of "basic" features you need to make your own

Or you make your own forks but that is also a lot of work to maintain

[wet lance]

From what I see here it looks like Folia has plenty of plugins that are now compatible with it. https://hangar.papermc.io/?sort=-stars

[magic orchid]

Its been getting a lot better sure, there are still gaps though

[wet lance]

Based on seeing this site with all of the plugins adapted to Folia I feel that the tide if starting to move and that is why I decided to start with Folia.

[wet lance]

I have read through all of the plugins and to me there is more than enough there to do what I want to do with a Minecraft server.

[umbral vault]

multipaper and shreddedpaper is not stable

and you have to accept consquences

[versed shuttle]

Hi guys, does anyone know why mace and spear swaps don't work on folia?

[versed shuttle]

thanks

[wet lance]

What is a good ping speed for a Minecraft server running Folia?

[magic orchid]

that is very different depending on who you ask.
some people say a ping of 100 is unplayable while others say that it is perfectly fine.
mainly depends on the physical distance between the player and the server too, so that isnt really anything you can "fix" by getting better hardware.

just figure out where the majority of your community is located and get a server there.

[fair merlin]

In the future, this kind of topic is more of a #general conversation, as it does not strictly relate to issues with a Folia server running.

[magic orchid]

quick question:
in a relatively normal SMP server with no noteworthy automatic farms and 34 players connected, is 2 million packages send from the server within 1 minute extremely high or normal?

trying to diagnose networking issues and ran PacketLogger during today's 4 hour play session and it states a peak of 2 Million outgoing packages within 1 minute.
80% of those packets are also entity related.

The server has a small view distance (4), reduced entity broadcast range (80%) and reduced entity collisions per tick (2)

[fair merlin]

As usual, send a spark report

[magic orchid]

my spark reports al just have the issue where they say "This report contains no data"

[fair merlin]

You should probably start with fixing that, then.

[magic orchid]

im trying but apparently the people at the spark discord dont really know how to go about this too

[umbral vault]

wait how

[umbral vault]

/spark profiler start --timeout 300

this should work

if its not

[magic orchid]

like i said, it will run fine but when i open the link it just says "This report contains no data"

[umbral vault]

hmmm

[magic orchid]

https://spark.lucko.me/zzlXgDNsq4

it shows the hardware stuff but not the relevant stuff

[umbral vault]

i can open it?

ah

oh

/spark profiler start --timeout 300 /spark profiler stop --save-to-file

[jolly glen]

I think that the name of the main thread was wrong?

[umbral vault]

lets try this

[jolly glen]

I read something about it probably in the spark discord?

You can probably try to use /spark profiler start --thread Folia Region Scheduler Thread.+ --regex or something along those lines, I havent tried the command

[lean garnet]

Does someone know how to fix rollback? When the server crashes location and inv gets rolled back

[livid crag]

If your server crash and cause rollback, what you want to fix is figure out why server crashes and prevent it from happening again.

All unsaved data is lost when server crash, there is no way around that.

[lean garnet]

// Oops.

Time: 2026-02-11 11:33:54
Description: Exception ticking world

java.lang.OutOfMemoryError: unable to create native thread: possibly out of memory or process/resource limits reached
    at java.base/java.lang.Thread.start0(Native Method)
    at java.base/java.lang.Thread.start(Thread.java:1444)
    at java.base/java.lang.System$1.start(System.java:2230)
    at java.base/jdk.internal.vm.SharedThreadContainer.start(SharedThreadContainer.java:147)
    at java.base/java.util.concurrent.ForkJoinPool.createWorker(ForkJoinPool.java:1754)
    at java.base/java.util.concurrent.ForkJoinPool.signalWork(ForkJoinPool.java:1895)
    at java.base/java.util.concurrent.ForkJoinPool$WorkQueue.push(ForkJoinPool.java:1302)
    at java.base/java.util.concurrent.ForkJoinPool.poolSubmit(ForkJoinPool.java:2625)
    at java.base/java.util.concurrent.ForkJoinPool.execute(ForkJoinPool.java:3179)
    at java.base/java.lang.VirtualThread.submitRunContinuation(VirtualThread.java:340)
    at java.base/java.lang.VirtualThread.externalSubmitRunContinuationOrThrow(VirtualThread.java:425)
    at java.base/java.lang.VirtualThread.start(VirtualThread.java:702)
    at java.base/java.lang.VirtualThread.start(VirtualThread.java:713)
    at java.base/java.lang.ThreadBuilders$VirtualThreadBuilder.start(ThreadBuilders.java:262)
    at net.minecraft.server.level.ChunkMap.tick(ChunkMap.java:1035)
    at net.minecraft.server.level.ServerChunkCache.tick(ServerChunkCache.java:497)
    at net.minecraft.server.level.ServerLevel.tick(ServerLevel.java:793)
    at com.universeprojects.util.thread.world.ticker.impl.WorldTicker.tick(WorldTicker.java:50)
    at net.minecraft.server.MinecraftServer.tickChildren(MinecraftServer.java:1736)
    at net.minecraft.server.MinecraftServer.tickServer(MinecraftServer.java:1596)

[fair merlin]

The error is right there. You’re running out of memory.

[fair merlin]

Send a spark report? It’ll show the config values you’re using.

[lean garnet]

The issue is if i use spark it says no data avaiable

[fair merlin]

Try it anyway

[lean garnet]

nvm it worked

[fair merlin]

Post a link - not a screenshot please

[lean garnet]

https://spark.lucko.me/NsRgmPNdrG

yeah mb

[fair merlin]

Oh, you’re using a fork.

You’ll want to go to them for support.

[lean garnet]

Spark?

[fair merlin]

No, the fork you’re using.

You aren’t using Folia.

You’re using a fork of Folia.

[lean garnet]

yeah luminol

[fair merlin]

They probably have some sort of support server.

So you’ll want to ask them for support. We don’t support forks.

[dawn plover]

9950X3D is better than 9950x for folia right?

[inner swift]

It's probably same-ish

[magic orchid]

in theory its a tiny bit better but that tiny difference is not worth paying extra for

[dawn plover]

If I have a 10+ terabyte world is there a big different between running NVME and Sata?

[fair merlin]

Yes. Faster is faster.

[wet lance]

I got my Folia server up and running. Installed first plugin Orebfuscator and ProtocolLib and getting a warning: [ProtocolLib] [AsyncListenerHandler] Plugin Orebfuscator v5.5.7 did not start the asynchronous handler com.comphenix.protocol.async.AsyncListenerHandler@5eef4218 by calling start() or syncStart(). Has anyone else had this issue?

[vapid lynx]

You know that paper has an in-built anti-x-ray?

[wet lance]

I read that it is not that good. Has that changed?

[inner swift]

Anti-xray has always been the best way to do what it proposes to do

The only thing Orebfuscator does differently is being able to hide tile entities and apply fancy heuristics like raytracing

[bold osprey]

The only possible better option is stonar's ray trace anti xray, where you pay with more cpu usage for even more coverage (but it's decently fast and supports folia)

[wet lance]

Luckperms is not showing up on the hanger website as a folia plugin. Does anyone know if it will work with folia? If not is there alternative that can be used?

[bold osprey]

https://ci.lucko.me/job/LuckPerms-Folia/

[wheat wigeon]

what is this why don't start my server?

[fierce knot]

message.txt by @wheat wigeon: https://pastes.dev/amX2ZrEM1i

[inner swift]

The log tells you how to fix the issue, but either way

[wheat wigeon]

Im using Folia 1.21.8

[inner swift]

Yeah, it's indeed unsupported

[wheat wigeon]

why?

[fair merlin]

That's an error we'll have to fix.

Only 1.21.11 is supported right now.

But post a full log - hopefully you don't have malware.

[wheat wigeon]

but then why does it say supported on the website?

[fair merlin]

Again, that's an error.

[wheat wigeon]

https://mclo.gs/sYkuVCc

here is the full log

[fair merlin]

That doesn't look like the full startup log

[wheat wigeon]

this is the full log

[viral stone]

delete the paper-remapped folder

outside of that, as said, that is an unsupported version

[wheat wigeon]

Is the build not supported or is it the minecraft version?

[fair merlin]

Both.

We only support 1.21.11

(At the moment)

[wheat wigeon]

and when do they plan to update this on the website?

[timber igloo]

we have to wait for upstream first, and even then its prolly gonna take a bit

[void elbow]

How do I build Folia now? What are the commands? ./gradlew build and all ?

[livid crag]

You can download it now directly from our website

[void elbow]

No bro

https://github.com/PaperMC/Folia/pull/446

need this fix use in sources. I can't build the .jar file; it gives an error when I upload the file to the original repository and try to build it.

[daring nimbus]

just clone that PR branch and build it like you would normally?

If you don't know how to do that, you might need to hire a dev. If your server is big enough to require Folia, its big enough to pay a dev

[fair merlin]

A reminder that we don't support offline mode servers.

[woeful prism]

hey, is a AMD Ryzen 9 7900 (12c) suitable for folia? I understand the recommended core count is 16 - however this would be for an SMP with around 80 players widely spread out.

[viral stone]

You don't need that many cores, but the maths makes a lot less sense under that

[vapid lynx]

Based on experience I can tell that more cores = better.
When you have heavy users and end up with like 30 regions or even more and some users even go like 10k blocks away from each other, then they still end up in the same region, which if your players build farms or ressource heavy things, ends up lagging out other regions as well, when the 1 region the farm is in is already at 80-100% util.

So the recommendation of 16 cores is kind of usefull. Also not to underestimate is the strength of a single core. If solo cores are not strong enough and also you dont have much cores then the util overloads all other regions as well. I have about 40-50 concurrent players on an pretty good cpu, and still have sometimes problems when too many regions or too heavy regions end up loading.

So in the end the core count isnt the main factor for folia, also the single-core-performance is as important as the core count

[dawn plover]

Running folia on 9950x is the premium exerience for your players

its time for folia to go brrrrr on the competition

[timber igloo]

if you dont make your own patches to some extent and run a survival server, folia experience can be very bad in pvp because higher latencies

[umbral vault]

unfortunately true

[harsh valve]

I have the plugin source code and want to edit it to include folia support, how can I do that?

[fair merlin]

You’d have to review and rewrite any code that’s relying on methods or APIs that don’t exist.

It’s not as simple as pushing a button or something. Depends a lot on what the plugin is doing / touching.

Also we don’t support offline mode, as you’ve been told.

[wet lance]

What version of ProtocolLib should I install on my Folia server?

[little sable]

Latest version

[wet lance]

I am having an issue getting Orbfuscator to run using the latest verion of ProtocolLib. Any idea why it would not be able to start the AsyncListenerHandler?

[little sable]

you need to ask the plugin developer

[viral stone]

Make sure you're using the latest versions and look at the actual error?

[wet lance]

[21:19:04 WARN]: [ProtocolLib] [AsyncListenerHandler] Plugin Orebfuscator v5.5.7 did not start the asynchronous handler com.comphenix.protocol.async.AsyncListenerHandler@6a1e1390 by calling start() or syncStart().

[viral stone]

So, either that plugin did something wrong or is not built for that version of PL

[wet lance]

I have opened a bug report here... https://github.com/Imprex-Development/Orebfuscator/issues/471

[inner swift]

That's definitely not the latest version of PL

The PL download page tells you the version you're using is meant only for up to 1.21.8

[wet lance]

https://github.com/dmulloy2/ProtocolLib Should I be looking somewhere else?

[viral stone]

use the dev builds

[wet lance]

I can't seem to find them. Is there a link somewhere on that page that I am missing?

[viral stone]

I think they had a link on the bukkit release page or something

[wet lance]

Think I found it here... https://github.com/dmulloy2/ProtocolLib/releases/tag/dev-build

[viral stone]

Aug 10, 2025

They have a CI server linked on their bukkit page

[low lichen]

it get's updated

[wet lance]

Is this the page you are reffering to? https://dev.bukkit.org/projects/protocollib

[viral stone]

20 commits to master since this release

Yes

[wet lance]

Still not finding it

[fair merlin]

You may want to see if they have a support Discord.

Ultimately this is not really plugin support, but support for Folia itself.

[wraith geode]

isnt protocollib really old and packetevents better? just heard of it

[sudden tusk]

They both work and have their own pros and cons. This channel is for help running folia, though.

[cosmic pawn]

Is folia gonna update upstream before 26.1

There’s a fix from Paper I’m waiting for

[little sable]

Possibly, but not right away, Paper is coming first

[wet lance]

Hello I am reading how to configure Folia here.. https://docs.papermc.io/folia/faq/ Where are these settings that are discussed on this page? Are they in the config/paper-global.yml file?

[hexed ice]

yes, they are in there

[wet lance]

I am aking what config files are they in. I found Netty-threads in the spigot.yml config. Have not found any of the other settings yet.

[wet lance]

Oh ok I found them. But am I correct the netty settings are in the spigot config?

[hexed ice]

yeah the netty setting was the only config option mentioned that's not in there

[wet lance]

This is correct right? chunk-system:
io-threads: 3
worker-threads: 2

Also what about the GC Settings I am not finding that..

[hexed ice]

GC settings are configured in your startup script

[hexed ice]

looks correct enough, can always increase it as necessary if it doesn't work for you

[wet lance]

Where do I find the startup script. I have never edited that before. At least I can't remember editing anything like that.

Is that the server.properties

[fair merlin]

It’s not built in to Paper. You make the script.

So if you have one then it’s wherever you put it.

[wet lance]

Hm... ok need to research this. Never done that before.

[fair merlin]

A startup script is pretty basic Minecraft / Paper stuff. Definitely worth looking into. You’re going to run into far more advanced stuff than this customizing stuff for Folia.

[high walrus]

The paper docs website has a tool for startup scripts
https://docs.papermc.io/misc/tools/start-script-gen/
I've always used this tbh, seemed to work on Folia as well

[magic orchid]

<@&748618676189528155>

[wet lance]

Thank you for the information.

[high walrus]

No worries, always happy to share info were I can

[wet lance]

Actually this turned out to easier than I thought as the Pelican Panel has an option in its interface to place those variables into for the start up script. So I have made the changes and have allocated all 16 threads to the various variables and the server is up and running with no errors. Now I know where to go and how to do this so I can tweak the settings and adjust them as needed.

[harsh valve]

Is Folia really okay, everyone? I've been using it for a while and it keeps crashing

Everything else seems fine, maybe it's due to plugin incompatibility?

[hexed ice]

got crash logs?

[magic orchid]

if the error messages state that the errors are caused by plugins, then its a plugin issue (most likely).

[harsh valve]

The server suddenly stopped working, and I'm sure the configuration was sufficient for it to function properly

I will submit the log if this situation occurs again

But there's something strange the /spark suddenly started up on its own even though I hadn't done anything

[umbral vault]

spark should not suddenly being started up

[hexed ice]

spark has the background profiler enabled by default, if that's what you mean

[fair merlin]

Sorry you’re experiencing crashes, but we don’t support offline mode here. You’ve been told this before.

[harsh valve]

I'm asking for server onlinemode=true

I know offline mode isn't welcome here

[fair merlin]

You’re saying all of your servers are in online mode now?

[blissful heron]

Hello Y have a probleme when y use a ominous bottle evokers and witch don't spawn

[magic orchid]

A spark report will show us all the relevant information.
You can make it shorter though, the 300 it suggests is mainly for performance issues

[fair merlin]

/sparkc is the configs only one, FYI

[hexed ice]

what level of raid omen were you using & what is the worlds difficulty

[blissful heron]

5 ans difficult normal

*And

[hexed ice]

will still need that spark link like the embed says

[blissful heron]

I didn't understand how it works

From when I type this order

[hexed ice]

you just copy the command from in there and it'll give you a link to send here 10 seconds later

[fair merlin]

But you need to install spark first.

[magic orchid]

I think you need to manually install spark on folia though