folia-help

[fair merlin]

You want players far apart and to stay far apart.

We mention this a lot (and often) in here.

We even have a little infographic about it.

[lost junco]

I know, players rtp on an 150k x 150k radius so I thought that would be the case for us

Should we not be using folia then?

[fair merlin]

If your players are too close together such that you're ending up with one large region, then you might want to use Paper instead.

[lost junco]

Do you think paper can be effective at handling 300 players? (Vanilla)

[fair merlin]

Vanilla as in zero plugins?

[lost junco]

Well we have viaversion and grimac

[fair merlin]

And apparently at least on RTP plugin

And I'm guessing a bunch of others?

[fair merlin]

Send this?

[lost junco]

the rtp is just spawn radius

[lost junco]

I cant access a report right now but I can send one later

but the server runs fine with any less than like 18k chunks in a region

[slow grail]

Why cant they split? Wouldnt it be possible to implement that?

[umbral vault]

i guess this wasnt donutsmp (isnt his grafana filled with goliaths?)

For 5k players u need more than making a community and techinal thingies, more data you need

[quasi imp]

holy

[umbral vault]

bros shocked 😄

[quasi imp]

Well, I am currently working on something similar. but I know I wont get that much players

1000 on its own is impressive

[umbral vault]

sharding is just a alternative way to do that

i mean, handling players

but no one cant get 1k players in single region

[quasi imp]

ofc not 😂

My server had problems running paper with 80 people

[umbral vault]

you should change things in game

[quasi imp]

I guess its because of the plugins

[umbral vault]

Plugins, hardware, network

[quasi imp]

poopy plugins, currently making my own

[umbral vault]

any of them may cause

[quasi imp]

yeah I am changing things

[umbral vault]

learning java is most important. At least folia with "a lot" players

[quasi imp]

I mean, medium knowledge is fine I guess

[umbral vault]

everyone can handle up to 150 players in single paper instance (overall)

if you want more, you need more knowledge

Directly proportional lmao

[thin compass]

i think is like 800 to 2000?

i love data

[quasi imp]

I guess it's a EU server?

[thin compass]

🙂‍↔️

[quasi imp]

damn

[warm crown]

Hello, its possible update folia 1.21.8 to folia 1.21.11 or i will have problems?

I have all plugins custom

[quasi imp]

1.21.11 is in alpha stage. it is possible but its not guaranteed to be stable for production

from what I know

[warm crown]

What could happen?

[thin compass]

random bug

shutdown happen i think

[quasi imp]

it may corrupt the world file

[warm crown]

O

[quasi imp]

also even the paper builds are in alpha

so yeah don't use it for now in my opinion

[warm crown]

Like in month in would be stable?

[quasi imp]

i hope

it will be shown on their website

[warm crown]

And 1.21.10?

This is stable?

Or the same

[quasi imp]

there is no folia 1.21.10

[warm crown]

U

[quasi imp]

it got jumped from .8 to .11

[warm crown]

Okay

For 1.21.11 you recommend other fork or only wait for stable?

[lofty magnet]

no server is stable for 1.21.11 yet

not even Vanilla should be considered stable

[quasi imp]

why not

they started with the 26.1 snapshots

[lofty magnet]

because there has not been enough time to find (and potentially fix) all the issues it could have

[quasi imp]

right

[warm crown]

And make support folia snapchot 26.1 private its a mess?

[lofty magnet]

(granted the fact that they didn't have to hotfix anything is a good sign)

[warm crown]

Yrah

Yeah*

For now any errors then

Only waiting for bugs no?

Or why its isnt stable yet?

[lofty magnet]

because there has not been enough time to find (and potentially fix) all the issues it could have

[warm crown]

Okay

[thin compass]

🥰

[warm crown]

A yeah, i have a problem, with folia the rtp when tp, it stays you in the void like 8s

In coords very gigants

[warm crown]

Thanks ❤️

[warm crown]

Like 18929020

[lofty magnet]

are you the dev of the plugin? otherwise it might be good for them to resolve this as they actually know what they are doing

[warm crown]

For rtp its the only plugin no custom

Its betterrtp

I havent create a rtp plugin because i think it was the folia loading slow

(I have a good machine)

[lofty magnet]

best to report this to them if it only happens when randomly teleporting and not normally, they can then provide the necessary info here if there really is an issue in folia itself

[warm crown]

Better i will create my custom plugin

For rtp

For avoid this bug, first i will have to load the de region right?

And then the tp

[lofty magnet]

that's more a #folia-dev question if you mean writing custom code but just use the teleportAsync API, it will do all this for you

[warm crown]

Ty

[umbral vault]

• scheduling

[sand laurel]

Quick question, does Spark work with folia?

[fair merlin]

Yes, there's a Folia-specific branch/build for Spark.

[cursive shore]

I agree with this question. On my server, the vault block is absolutely not activated for completely new players - and it cannot be opened. Moreover, if you install the vault block from the creative, everything is fine with it. It seems that vault blocks break down over time

[fair merlin]

(Please don't post the same message to multiple channels)

[lunar fractal]

Hello, has anyone run Folia under heavy load on a two-socket server or is there any info/best practices I can read? Currently I have one-socket server with 48 physical cores using ZGC in generational mode. Will there be performance drops compares to my current setup if I run on 24+24 (two processors with 24 cores each) server and assign, for example, entire 1st socket and part of 2nd (24+16) via cpuset in docker-compose and run it via numactl --interleave=all?

[fair merlin]

Folia doesn’t officially support NUMA, so we don’t really recommend it.

[lunar fractal]

Thank you, even if I use a large two-socket server, for example, 48+48, and want to place two Folia servers on it and use cpuset and numactl --cpunodebind with --membind (pin instance to a specific socket and RAM from this socket) for each instance, is there still potential issues?

[paper siren]

one Folia instance running on one socket will be fine, it's just that the region scheduler isn't numa-aware

[acoustic monolith]

Someone know plugin for stack mob and items or only mobs compatible with folia

[sand laurel]

What's the link to that?

Also, question regarding folia. I know it utilize more threads compare to PaperMC. Would single thread performance still be something to keep in mind of or would the multi-thread performance of the CPU be enough?

[magic orchid]

single thread is still very important

i made the experience that xeon CPUs are terrible for Folia even though they have lots of cores because they have worse single thread performance than my 11th gen i5.
(My xeons are xeon gold from 2017 and i run them with 12 memory channels)

[sand laurel]

Would a single thread point of 2100 be good enough if the multithread is 69448? Using the AMD EPYC 7742

[magic orchid]

i have no idea what a "thread point" is supposed to be.
if you talk about some benchmark score, then the number itself doesnt matter.
you can only really use those to roughly compare different CPUs with each other but you still need to have 1 CPU where you know the performance that you can compare against

i like to compare against my i5 as it got good single core performance, jsut as a baseline tho.
I dont have that many players yet so i cant say how well that one would go with +200 players.
(Also that i5 only has 6 cores so it doesnt qualify anyways but using just the single thread perfomance for comparison).

i would not recommend your CPU if you want a higher player count

my xeons (which struggle at 20 players in 1 region due to bad single thread performance) have roughly 50% of the i5's single thread performance

but if your players are very spread out like in a skyblock server then you still might be fine

[sand laurel]

Referring to the points here:
https://www.cpubenchmark.net/cpu.php?cpu=AMD+EPYC+7742&id=3547

[magic orchid]

what exactly are you planning to do on your server?

like what "gamemode"

how many players

[sand laurel]

Run an SMP with roughly around 150 players all at once

Mostly spread out in a 30,000 by 30,000 world

[magic orchid]

is it a "normal" SMP or is there some custom stuff that will bring people to distance themselves for most of the time?

[sand laurel]

The only custom stuff is custom world generation like Terra

[magic orchid]

then people will be close to each other

keep in mind the minimum distance between players has to be ~1k blocks, if they are closer than that then they will merge their regions.
maybe regular leaf/paper might be better for you

[magic orchid]

but it doesnt matter if you stick to Folia or use regular paper: your CPU probably wont be doing 150 players at once

[sand laurel]

Paper definitely isn't doing well hence why we're considering the EPYC machine since a user has it laying around

TPS is 8-10 and we've done as much optimization possible that we can that doesn't affect much of the gameplay

hence why we're looking at folia as a solution

[magic orchid]

what CPU does your current server have?

[sand laurel]

Ryzen 9 7900X

[magic orchid]

the EPYC will be a DOWNGRADE for you

[sand laurel]

Fully aware of that, but we were hoping that Folia would pull through with its multithreading

[magic orchid]

in a map size of 30k by 30k with 150 players there is a high chance that most players will be in a singular, large region.
you will most likely get similar performance to paper, or even worse

multicore on Folia is very nice, but it still requires decent single core.
A CPU for Folia is basicaly needs the same single core as paper but with more cores.
those extra cores just sit idle for paper but Folia can use them.
but the base single core performance still has to be decent

i hope you get my point, your multicore MONSTER of a CPU has ~67% of the single core of a BUDGET desktop CPU from ~4 years ago

that being said: the best way of knowing is testing.
for example your EPYC probably has the advantage of having more memory channels than the i5 and minecraft loves fast memory.
maybe you can get some extra performance by that fact alone.
i dont know the context of your server but maybe it is still worth a try.

[sand laurel]

Alright thanks for the input!

[magic orchid]

as you can see for Folia it is really "it depends" xD

[sand laurel]

only reason why we're using the EPYC machine is because it just has a crap loads of RAM and with the current market right now, building a new machine is definitely not ideal

[magic orchid]

i mean you dont need that much RAM for a minecraft server with 150 players

[thin compass]

is load massive chunk on folia is dropping tps?

lmao

😭

[sand laurel]

Yeah, but the machine we have laying around was an epyc so we thought we can make use of it over simply sharing a large server with other servers on the 7900X

anyways thanks for the input

honestly might invest into a threadripper bundle since somehow that's cheaper than 64-128GB of DDR5 ram nowadays

[fair merlin]

FYI - since this is a Folia help channel and the Paper server, we'd really prefer if people didn't push folks to other forks in help channels.

[thin compass]

is this flag good?

java -Xms140G -Xmx140G -XX:+AlwaysPreTouch -XX:+UseZGC -XX:+UseLargePages -XX:LargePageSizeInBytes=2M -Dterminal.jline=false -Dterminal.ansi=true -jar {{SERVER_JARFILE}}

[umbral vault]

Multiple cores still don't mean you've reached the end of your need for single-core performance.

Unfortunately, You need a lot of cores, each of which is strong in order to get best performance from folia & folia structure.

[umbral vault]

also use -XX:+UseCompactObjectHeaders with Java 25.

This may increase performance and as seen in benchmark tests, its reducing ram usage by 10-20%.

[paper siren]

(It also may decrease performance)

[umbral vault]

^

So... test it. You can use it depending on how your performance goes. But there is a reality about decreasing ram usage.

[amber hare]

any help for this ?

[fierce knot]

message.txt by @amber hare: https://pastes.dev/mrRUEy1Q1i

[viral stone]

truncated logs are useless

[little sable]

this is Folia support, not Canvas.

[fierce knot]

message.txt by @remote sphinx: https://pastes.dev/dR24BwC6sm

[little sable]

As I just mentioned above, this channel is for Folia support, but not Canvas support

[remote sphinx]

Even on Folia, this error shows up, and because of it I switched to Canvas.

[hexed ice]

You will need to be using folia if you want to receive any support here

[little sable]

If this occurs on Folia, you must provide Folia logs

[remote sphinx]

ok th

[remote sphinx]

ok i switched to folia

[fair merlin]

Post a log with the issue occurring on Folia, please.

[remote sphinx]

ok now Folia and deleted plugin lagfixer

[fierce knot]

latest.log by @remote sphinx: https://pastes.dev/VLxUNr00C7

[remote sphinx]

and

[remote sphinx]

hello?

[sudden tusk]

See the bot message above your 'hello?' message.

[remote sphinx]

ok sorry

[peak adder]

Who have spark for latest folia

[sudden tusk]

Please elaborate

[small pendant]

https://mclo.gs/euBXQCm Any idea? Folia 1.21.8-6

[timber igloo]

that looks to me like a plugin is doing something wrong? do you have a plugin list

[true creek]

Hey everyone, my server keeps getting crashed by others, is there any way I can fix it?

Here's my log https://mclo.gs/yn48rOo

[true creek]

https://mclo.gs/LFerjE7

[true creek]

I found that he's been using this command "/playerviewdistancecontroller:pvdc", but after a while the server crashes

[true creek]

I've made new discoveries on my Velocity; this player has been constantly spamming commands.

This is part of my log https://mclo.gs/wrA0aF0

[simple berry]

heyo, quick question: what can cause global tps drops when the highest region is not above 25 mspt

[livid crag]

Provide a spark report so we can take a look. Your question is too board and cannot really be answered. @simple berry

[simple berry]

oh yeah, ill take a look

but i guess its too late now

it was like for 2 min

then it was alright again

[slow grail]

Poorly written plugins possibly

[simple berry]

also wasnt as bad this time, probably because there were less players

[umbral vault]

FTSFolia is a fork.

which is, u cannot get support from here.

also it will be unrelated with fork, your flags is not good for 32g heap.

[timber igloo]

he just explained his solution

[umbral vault]

i guess i was a bit serious 🙁

[simple berry]

its more or less canvas

[simple berry]

understandable

thought its maybe something like a "oh yeah maybe check x or y" situation

[simple berry]

also may i ask for advice to improve my flags?

we are running on zen 5

[paper siren]

maybe don't blindly copy random flags from somewhere for starters

[umbral vault]

so true ^

test the flags according to ur specs

flags may show nice or bad performance based on ur hardware.

but if you would want general advise, i wouldnt prefer g1gc on larger heaps.

[paper siren]

most flags other than GC flags shouldn't be touched at all

[umbral vault]

isnt modern jdks doing the all job for you?

optimising itself inside of it

[paper siren]

the default values of flags are typically set to something that has shown to work well, sometimes these defaults are adjusted based on new findings, but generally it just doesn't make much difference. Otherwise the default wouldn't be what it is

and also many flags are set ergonomically based on the hardware, changing that will likely lead to worse results

[umbral vault]

java devs know more than me and urs of course all 95% of settings should not be changed 🤣

at least, override-

[winter stump]

will folia work well on xeon?

for example xeon e5 2690v4

[viral stone]

I mean, single thread performance still matters

each region is basically a small MC server in its own right

[sudden tusk]

Just to be clear on this, that CPU is going to perform very poorly. It was fine enough nine years ago when it came out, but times change.

[magic orchid]

no, older xeons are terrible for Folia.
they might have many cores but those cores are slower than a budget desktop CPU from 5 years ago

[winter stump]

so newer xeons wont be that bad?

[magic orchid]

I dont know.
Look at some benchmarks

[wet arch]

xeons are generally not very good at single threaded performance

so, probably still bad

[remote sphinx]

Hey, I’m running the server with the following JVM flags and around 150 players.
Do you think this setup is good and stable for this player count?

java -Xms48G -Xmx48G -XX:+UseZGC -XX:+ZGenerational -XX:MaxGCPauseMillis=10 \
-XX:+UnlockExperimentalVMOptions -XX:+UnlockDiagnosticVMOptions \
-XX:+AlwaysPreTouch -XX:+DisableExplicitGC \
-XX:ReservedCodeCacheSize=1G -XX:+PerfDisableSharedMem \
-XX:+UseStringDeduplication -XX:+OptimizeStringConcat \
-XX:+OmitStackTraceInFastThrow -XX:+TrustFinalNonStaticFields \
-XX:+UseFastUnorderedTimeStamps -XX:+UseVectorCmov \
-XX:+UseAES -XX:+UseAESIntrinsics \
-XX:NmethodSweepActivity=1 -XX:+UseCodeCacheFlushing \
-XX:+SegmentedCodeCache -XX:+TieredCompilation -XX:TieredStopAtLevel=4 \
-DPaper.IgnoreJavaVersion=true -Dfile.encoding=UTF-8 \
-Xlog:async --add-modules jdk.incubator.vector \
-jar server.jar nogui

[fair merlin]

We don’t support offline mode servers, as you have been told already.

[stark wren]

i am running it on a intoel core i-3

[stark wren]

maybe i use 64gigs max and 4 gigs min

[sudden tusk]

Folia tuning is complicated. Please don't give advice if just kinda throwing out guesses.

[umbral vault]

Each server has its own specific needs. General help things (like Aikars, etc.) may not be truly helpful, but they've gained a foothold in the community because they've been tested many times.

this is obviously for folia itself, same things valid for paper too.

[viral stone]

A bunch of those JVM flags are just aikars ones which probably aren't needed, the rest are either defaults, irrelevant or come at the cost of performance

[umbral vault]

fr

[distant hawk]

does folia make sense for a playerbase which is spread out like this? pl3xmap link

[livid crag]

imo, no, your server has little players and Paper can handle it just fine. Using your current players and where they are, that's at best 4 regions

even if you get MORE players later, the map is too small and if players keep generally equal distance between them, it will just be one giant region.

[distant hawk]

okay, ty for the info 😄

[thin compass]

is network-compression-threshold=-1 work on folia?

i put it -1 and still getting hell nah of cpu usage 😦

[thin compass]

is ur velocity opensource

😀

[wet arch]

1. #folia-dev for dev stuff 2. that event isn't fired on folia

[turbid canopy]

Well im on folia software, sorry i shouldve thought about that, ill move my messages.

[peak adder]

Me used velocity+folia too

[thin compass]

💔

[wicked mantle]

Should probably update folia to 1.21.8

[thin compass]

😔

is this my chunk file fault or folia fault

[wicked mantle]

but you're outdated

[thin compass]

damn

[peak adder]

Who already test
EDF and WORK_STEALING

[soft patio]

kid named filesystem / hard drive errors:

[gusty pebble]

Does someone have the Same Problem that Sometimes Ping Spikes very high on folia 1.21.8 latest because on paper that Problem ist gone

And it also Spikes when i turn on Like a bonemeal Farm Sometimes

[magic orchid]

check out your system use.
maybe you overload the CPU or RAM or networking?

[north lake]

Is there a Folia-compatible plugin that allows viewing players' inventories and Ender Chests? (Supports offline users)
Is it perhaps API-wise impossible?

[magic orchid]

we do not provide support for offline mode

[little sable]

Is he talking about offline mode or when a player is simply disconnected?

[unkempt harbor]

does it happen to only some and not all player?
sme lie kthe img? n their pign range for those that have shit ping is aroud nthe same latency?

[magic orchid]

Fair point lol.
Im at a point where whenever I see "offline user" my brain goes to autocomplete to say that.

[modest kestrel]

https://dev.bukkit.org/projects/openinv/files

[timber igloo]

API wise its defenetly not a challenge

[simple berry]

small update on this, we reevaluated our flags to this:

java --add-modules=jdk.incubator.vector \
-XX:+UnlockExperimentalVMOptions -XX:+UnlockDiagnosticVMOptions \
-XX:+UseNUMA -XX:+UseNUMAInterleaving -XX:-IntelJccErratumMitigation \
-XX:+EnableVectorSupport -XX:+UseVectorCmov -XX:+UseVectorStubs -XX:+AlignVector \
-XX:+UseFastStosb -XX:+UseCharacterCompareIntrinsics \
-XX:+UseFastUnorderedTimeStamps -XX:+UseStringDeduplication -XX:+PerfDisableSharedMem \
-XX:+AlwaysPreTouch -XX:+AlwaysPreTouchStacks \
-XX:+UseLargePages -XX:LargePageSizeInBytes=2M \
-XX:+UseCriticalCompilerThreadPriority -XX:+UseThreadPriorities -XX:+UseCriticalJavaThreadPriority \
-XX:+DisableExplicitGC -XX:MaxGCPauseMillis=100 \
-XX:G1NewSizePercent=40 -XX:G1MaxNewSizePercent=50 \
-XX:G1HeapRegionSize=32M -XX:G1ReservePercent=15 -XX:InitiatingHeapOccupancyPercent=20 \
-XX:G1RSetUpdatingPauseTimePercent=5 -XX:G1MixedGCCountTarget=4 -XX:G1MixedGCLiveThresholdPercent=90 \
-XX:SurvivorRatio=32 -XX:MaxTenuringThreshold=1 \
-XX:ParallelGCThreads=24 -XX:ConcGCThreads=8 \
-XX:+AlwaysActAsServerClassMachine -XX:ReservedCodeCacheSize=400M -XX:NonNMethodCodeHeapSize=12M \
-XX:ProfiledCodeHeapSize=194M -XX:NonProfiledCodeHeapSize=194M -XX:NmethodSweepActivity=1 \
-XX:G1SATBBufferEnqueueingThresholdPercent=30 -XX:G1ConcMarkStepDurationMillis=5 -XX:G1HeapWastePercent=5 \
-Djdk.nio.maxCachedBufferSize=262144 -Dusing.aikars.flags=https://mcflags.emc.gs -Daikars.new.flags=true \
-jar server.jar

and it seems to be much better
(also uses hugepages now)

[wicked mantle]

That literally looks like you asked an LLM for every possible flag in java

I doubt half of those actually do anything that matters

[paper siren]

good job at setting most of the flags to their default values

[simple berry]

i did this on the host java -XX:+UnlockDiagnosticVMOptions -XX:+UnlockExperimentalVMOptions -XX:+PrintFlagsFinal -version
then checked which are NOT set 'to my liking' by default

no i dont set defaults

[livid crag]

Stick to aikars flag we provided if you are clearly clueless

[wicked mantle]

Half of the flags you set are just java defaults

-XX:+UseNUMA -XX:+UseNUMAInterleaving most likely does nothing as Folia is not NUMA aware

[simple berry]

maybe the GC ones (some else did them)

[simple berry]

yeah ik

maybe in the future

[livid crag]

Whoever did them, stop trusting them

[simple berry]

lol

thanks for the info

[paper siren]

that said, using large pages can indeed make sense

[wicked mantle]

You should probably also be actually using Folia if you're asking for help here, not some random fork.

[simple berry]

yes i understand, just thought an update might be interesting
no further questions on forks

[wicked mantle]

lol deleting your spark won't help

[umbral vault]

90% of here is default

have fun

[umbral vault]

in the future the new scheduler will support numa aware

[simple berry]

yee i saw

[umbral vault]

right now, it will not help.

but in the future, thanks to leaf, we can use this and it may help performance

[wicked mantle]

pretty sure java already applies that numa flag if it detects more than 1 socket

Game_type also appears to only have 1 cpu so numa will do nothing lol

[little sable]

I don't know if this will help, but I noticed that Ptero's Eggs for Java 21 doesn't support NUMA. I had to rebuild a Dockerfile, adding numactl libnuma1 so that Folia could see that there were multiple sockets

[fair merlin]

As just said above - Folia is not currently NUMA aware.

So it's not officially supported. You may encounter a lot of problems with multiple CPUs right now.

[wicked mantle]

Actually I was wrong, it is as of 2 days ago in build 3 but you have to swap schedulers and use a startup flag.

[little sable]

The latest commit allows the use of NUMA (but at our own risk)

[simple berry]

well it has 2 ccds

only one imc, but it should help reduce l3 cache misses

well misses are the wrong word prob

transfers

[umbral vault]

you have to

make ur own image

you probably need glibc and other libraries loaded on image

[little sable]

It's already created and working for me; I've put it on my Git repository for Java 25 and 21

[umbral vault]

-D%1$s.NumaScheduling=<true/false> - Enable NUMA aware scheduling if supported. -moonrise

[umbral vault]

for graalvm?

[little sable]

yes

[umbral vault]

or eclipse temurin?

niceeee

lemme look at it

thats good

[little sable]

I don't know if I can share it here, otherwise go to my GitHub profile, it's the very first one in the repository tab

[umbral vault]

i have to look smh on skullians

time to look oracle have a library like this

letss goooo there it is!

[umbral vault]

also, different topic. Did u look at it to io_uring?

it can make a attack surface but if u allow 2 rules it should be okay for prod servers

"you need to implement io uring to server.jar"

[little sable]

I've never heard of io_uring

[umbral vault]

like epoll, nio etc

[gusty pebble]

void how do i know if i overloaded my networking because cpu and ram are fine

[gusty pebble]

sometimes to everyone sometimes to only a few

[magic orchid]

use a tool like btop which shows you the network usage in real time and compare that to a speedtest on the same machine

if the speedtest tells you a max of 100mbits and btop shows a usage close to 100mbits then you are probably at the limit

[gusty pebble]

yea i already checked that it isnt the problem but could bungeecord also be the problem ?

[magic orchid]

i have no experience with proxy setups but i do know that people really do not recommend bungee here

[gusty pebble]

what do they recommend

[magic orchid]

velocity

[gusty pebble]

do you know the diffrents

[mild fog]

it's made by paper

[magic orchid]

no but this is not a folia specific topic

[mild fog]

#velocity-help

[umbral vault]

overall better #velocity-help

[steady hawk]

Do the end rings exist on folia/paper servers?

[inner swift]

No

[thin compass]

is this fine

[umbral vault]

no

you dont have enough ram for process.

After 9gib, your server cant allocate more and probably os kill the server at 104gb allocation

[fair merlin]

Also

[slow grail]

In the newer builds (1.21.11) there’s a config flag for it

[fair merlin]

https://docs.papermc.io/paper/reference/global-configuration/#misc_fix_far_end_terrain_generation

Haven't tested this, but in theory that's the config.

But that's specifically at far distances. Check the Mojira issue for more info.

[slow grail]

End rings only exist at far distances due to 32 bit overflow

And paper fixes it by default by casting them to floats

[fair merlin]

Yes, but it's been "fixed" for a long time, so people sometimes think they're supposed to occur earlier.

[slow grail]

Yeah you have to go really far lol

[mint sedge]

Hi guys how to setting folia 1.21.8 ?

[fair merlin]

Builds are available on the wesbsite.

[upper lintel]

Hey There! I was wondering why folia 1.21.9 and 10 are missing or if i am just looking in the wron places, i cant seem to find these

[fair merlin]

There aren't builds for them. Leaf was busy so he just did 1.21.11.

You generally want to be on the most recent version of Folia anyway, so no real need for 1.21.9 or 1.21.10

[upper lintel]

okay thanks

[vapid coral]

Hey guys! I want to make a Minecraft minigame server with various custom duels gamemodes.
Paper servers have a single tick loop which I think is really bad because lag from a minigame can affect other minigames. (I want to be able to add experimental gamemodes without being scared to lag the enitre server)
I would like to ask just how bad you think it is to use Folia for this although I only need separate dimensions to tick separately. I am especially interested in the effect on resource consumption, as I will write my own plugins.
Thank you in advance!

[maiden bronze]

You likely want to actually make a network with multiple Paper Servers + Velocity.

[vapid coral]

The problem with this is that I've heard that a JVM has a lot of overhead and it would be impractical to have a JVM for each match. I believe Hypixel has not all but several matches running on each Paper instance

[maiden bronze]

Hypixel probably has everything on its own server instance, but they also have their own forks of Spigot/Paper.

[vapid coral]

Oh, I did not know

[silk path]

they have dev blog where they explain their minecraft choices

they hardforked spigot 1.7.10 back then it's called hygot their own jar

[vapid coral]

That's cool

[finite hinge]

If you're aiming for maximum density you'd have multiple server instances still but also multiple minigame instances per server

Folia doesn't allow loading/unloading worlds at runtime so wouldn't be a good fit for that

[vapid coral]

So I can't make new dimensions?

[finite hinge]

You can make them with datapacks but they're created on startup and then fixed

[vapid coral]

Oh then simply using folia definitely won't work

Thanks for the advice!

[tall spindle]

Hello any plugins for gui shop folia ?

1.21.8 version

[fair merlin]

You'd want to check Hangar/etc

[tall spindle]

I check 5 hours

🙁

[daring nimbus]

Might not exist then. Generally if you are large enough to rely on Folia you can usually afford a dev to write or modify plugins for it, there aren't that many public plugins supporting it natively

[real tendon]

yet

[fair merlin]

We really don't want this kind of random side comment in help channels.

[thin compass]

what different between grid-exponent: 4 and 6

[fair merlin]

6 would make the regions larger.

[grim siren]

hello, is the allow-nether: false option removed from the server.properties in folia?

[river nebula]

i think its now somewhere in the /config directory

let me look

[grim siren]

i think i found it, let me try rq

[river nebula]

/config/paper-global.yml
under misc: there is enable-nether, you should set it to false

[grim siren]

yes, worked. thanks. 🙂

[icy thicket]

Is there a way in folia to see what plugin causes high mspt when a player joins? Spark profiler --ticks-over doesnt work on folia

[viral stone]

There is a spark plugin for folia

[icy thicket]

Yea i am using that

Doesnt help with anything

[viral stone]

I mean, there is no singular tick thread, so an option like that makes little sense

Only real option would be to hook up a dedicated profiler

[icy thicket]

But high mspt that i saw on spark affects all regions on folia or how does that work exactly? This is my first time trying to work with folia

[viral stone]

Regions tick individually

One region generally won’t impact other regions from ticking unless you don’t have enough threads for ticking

[icy thicket]

Yea but its about onPlayerJoin events

[lost junco]

I have very low cpu usage but high mspt, 16 cores 32 threads, should i switch from paper to folia? its for smp

[woeful shadow]

How do i whitelist

currently this my setup
server.properties contents

...
enforce-whitelist=true
...

whitelist.json contents are
[]

yet i'm able to join my server

[hexed ice]

are you opped?

[woeful shadow]

i already ran
deop on my username

[magic orchid]

enabling the whitelist and enforcing the whitelist are 2 different options, maybe you have it disabled?

[woeful shadow]

how does one enable it?

[fair merlin]

Same as Paper/vanilla - whitelist=true

[woeful shadow]

and this line goes in what file?

I can't find much info on the docs

[fair merlin]

It's a vanilla setting, not a Paper setting. Try searching for Minecraft configs.

[woeful shadow]

oh
it got enabled by whitelist on
command

[thin compass]

I think u should check which plugin handle teleport

like huskhome plugin before they was on paper after that they supported folia but still keep the same logic code like paper

so when player accept or do something with teleport, huskhome make an it own thread to accept tpa

that what happened to my side and there 20-30 players sent me an tpa and i have tpauto on and server crashed

[warm crown]

Hello. Its there spark for folia 1.21.11?

I cant find

Because i have some problems of tps and i cant see what its the problem without spark

[sudden tusk]

https://ci.lucko.me/job/spark-extra-platforms/

[fluid root]

Is there anyone who knows how to resolve this issue? I am currently using the Citizens plugin.

[sudden tusk]

I suggest asking the citizens folks for help with citizens

[warm crown]

This not goes for 1.21.11

It have errors

[warm crown]

@sudden tusk @pearl cloud Spark dont goes in folia 1.21.11 look:

[fierce knot]

message.txt by @warm crown: https://pastes.dev/12idA42RP1

[warm crown]

From here

[pearl cloud]

That is highly unfortunate

[warm crown]

So how i can see why tps

its going very bad

:c

Its going like 4tps XD

In paper goes all well its only with folia

[slow grail]

Any other info? Most likely some plugin is bad that you have

[warm crown]

I think that its the new nautilus mob

Only in ocean tps

goes bad

[slow grail]

Can someone confirm this

[warm crown]

i cant confirm because spark doest goes in folia 1.21.11

[slow grail]

Get a folia server with an ocean only world and get a bunch of nautiluses and see if it lags

[warm crown]

or

if i fix spark

the src is free

?

[warm crown]

:v

ok

[sudden tusk]

Have you reported the issues to the spark folks? 🤔

[warm crown]

I have fixed my self

and the problem was 1 plugin

[magic orchid]

(Wrong chat, srry)

[young burrow]

do yall think its a good idea to update to folia 1.21.11

or wait till its no longer experimental

[fair merlin]

I would update.

Folia is kinda inherently experimental.

[slow grail]

You are the experiment*

[magic orchid]

does this mean 1.21.8 is unsupported now?

[fair merlin]

For Folia, yeah.

[magic orchid]

my players told me that attribute swapping allows a player to combine the damage of an axe with the range of a spear.
is that possible on Folia too and if yes, is there a fix for that?

[modest kestrel]

paper-global.yml
update-equipment-on-player-actions: false -> this one allows mace swap
update-equipment-on-player-actions: true -> this one fixes mace swap

[magic orchid]

is there some sort of setting for connection throttling?
last time i started my server all the people got hit with "Connection throttled" and only 1 player every 5 seconds could join.
this is 100% not intended.
(I had an event set with a time and on that time i just did /whitelist off so it was ~20 people trying to join at once)

[modest kestrel]

paper-global.yml
max-joins-per-tick: 99999

bukkit.yml
connection-throttle: -1

[buoyant river]

guys how tf do these dev build compatible plugins for folia 1.21.11 please help

[livid crag]

Do you have question about Folia? Cn you share more in detail what exactly that you need help with?

[buoyant river]

ye mb for not saying from the start what do u guys do in the maven pom file

abt some api or idk

folia api for 1.21.11

can i send the code herer do is it allowed

imma jjus send

[fierce knot]

message.txt by @buoyant river: https://pastes.dev/f7D2ISgNl1

[buoyant river]

how do i make this into compatible for 1.21.11

im new to doing plugins

nvm

[zealous hill]

Report from players: ender pearl issue: ender pearl stasis chamber set up in the End and then player goes to the overworld, the pearl in the End is gone when they go back to the End. Same with if the ender pearl is set up in the overworld and then player travels to the nether, the ender pearl is gone when they go back to the overworld. This issue seems to appear after we updated from Folia 1.21.8 to Folia 1.21.11 (Build #8)

[timber igloo]

(https://github.com/PaperMC/Folia/issues/421)

[barren kiln]

Hello, any idea how to fix this warn with folia 1.21.11? (it spam my console)

https://mclo.gs/OsaBh4T

[scarlet ginkgo]

this seems like a spark issue, best to report it to them

[magic orchid]

i just noticed that the download page for older builds of Folia still states that 1.21.8 is supported, is this an error?

[dense acorn]

Guys, is datapack finally stable for all kind datapacks?

[inner swift]

There are no plans of supporting datapacks with command functions

[dense acorn]

Damn, I guess structure is good enough

[fair merlin]

Those sorts of datapacks tend to be pretty slow, and for Folia you're already likely to be writing your own stuff anyway.

[dense acorn]

Any idea when will Folia support all vanilla features like Paper?

[fair merlin]

All vanilla features? Probably never.

It's not really designed to replace Paper, it has different uses. So some stuff just isn't likely to work because of the nature of how its built.

[dense acorn]

damn

[magic orchid]

i set these settings but people still cant join the server and get the "Connection throttled" message

3 players get in right after a restart but even after 2 minutes have passed no other player can join

[fair merlin]

Do this? ^

[magic orchid]

i cant get on my server ._.

does that work in console too?

[fair merlin]

Yeah it should

[magic orchid]

seems like spark isnt installed

do i need to manually add it?

[fair merlin]

Yes.

For Folia.

[magic orchid]

where can i find the download?

[modest kestrel]

https://ci.lucko.me/job/spark-extra-platforms/

[magic orchid]

https://spark.lucko.me/HYpwiF3D91

it is weird, after a few more minutes a handful of people could join

but still not all

and the ones who can join always join very close to each other in terms of time delay between them.
they always come in groups of like 3 players

[magic orchid]

i dont know if it helps but i made another report with 29 players online. (Players can join with an average of like 30 seconds delay per player)
https://spark.lucko.me/M3TXBBJrJO

[modest kestrel]

this is not -1

[magic orchid]

bruh

[magic orchid]

ok yeah i fixed it now it works, thank you.
ima go into a corner and cry 😭

[fair merlin]

Spark reports to the rescue!

Typos in config files do happen sometimes, so don't beat yourself up too much.

[west sundial]

I tried to help out here since I'm playing on their server, but I wasn't able to because I've never used Spark. For future reference, how do you find config files?

[fair merlin]

If you're just a player and not an admin, you won't have access to those files.

[west sundial]

Txslx doesn't seem to be an admin here, either.

[viral stone]

in the configurations tab on spark

You might need to press the I button on the top row to get it to show that info

[fair merlin]

I meant an admin on the Minecraft server.

Oh, I see what you mean. I thought you meant view the actual config files. Duh, sorry.

Yeah the tab in the spark report.

I think there's a video (or howto?) on the spark website about how to read a spark report and what to look for.

[west sundial]

That is what I was missing. Using an unfamiliar software is very difficult when all the buttons are just icons.

[fair merlin]

Their docs are decent.

https://spark.lucko.me/docs/Using-the-viewer

[loud trellis]

I need WorldGuard for Folia but WorldGuard for folia doesn't seem to work

https://github.com/Euphillya/WorldGuard-Folia/releases/tag/build-patch%2Fversion%2F7.0.x-29

Here it says only on 1.21.10

But there's no 1.21.10 version for Folia

[mild fog]

Just try it on a verson nomal worldguard supports

[fair merlin]

You could try the EngineHub Discord.

Or just try it anyway.

[modest kestrel]

https://github.com/FreshSMP/WorldGuard/tree/folia

[mild fog]

Enginehub most likly wont help

[fair merlin]

I have no idea what changes this fork makes so no idea if it's safe to use or not.

Some people fork a plugin and then just modify the plugin config to "support Folia" but make zero other changes. So caveat emptor.

[loud trellis]

Yeah but those don't work, the task scheduler is completely different

Which causes WorldGuard to crash

[modest kestrel]

We've been using it ourselves for a very long time, can vouch for it, but again, if they want it, they gotta take the "risk" themselves

[mild fog]

Yeah

[loud trellis]

I love it when people deliberately make it harder by not including a .jar file

[fair merlin]

Yeah that's fair. Just not something we (as Paper) can recommend.

[fair merlin]

If you're using Folia then building plugins is the least of your problems.

[modest kestrel]

If you're using Folia, you should have a basic understanding of compiling plugins

[loud trellis]

I do

[fair merlin]

Should be zero issues to compile stuff.

[loud trellis]

I coded several plugins in the past

No issues with that

[mild fog]

Thanks for showing me the hidden gem that is freshsmp

[loud trellis]

Just a f u to the developer

[modest kestrel]

np, Root likes to promote Folia

[mild fog]

And i thank root for open sourcing it all

[modest kestrel]

almost all of their plugins have folia support and they seem to be using the plugins themselves on prod

since they use Canvas (fork of Folia)

[mild fog]

For a while (like just now while) i was using a jank build of worldedit and worldguard that i made combining 2 forks into 1

[mild fog]

Just discovered canvas, it's amazing!

[fair merlin]

A reminder that this is a help channel - please take side convo to somewhere else, thanks!

[mild fog]

That's why i didnt say any more

[loud trellis]

it doesn't load on startup, what version of Folia are you rocking?

[modest kestrel]

I'm using 1.21.8

[loud trellis]

Oh I see

[sand laurel]

Question, does Spark work automatically on Folia or is there a fork of it that supports it?'

[fair merlin]

There's an official spark build for Folia, it doesn't automatically install.

Search this channel for info on where to find it.

[loud trellis]

Are you also using FreshSMP their WorldEdit?
https://github.com/FreshSMP/FastAsyncWorldEdit-Folia

[modest kestrel]

i am, but it has bugs

use it at your own risk

[loud trellis]

I wonder why Folia developers didn't just keep the same API calls as Paper and not just change the logic to function in the new multi threaded environment

[loud trellis]

Would you mind sharing the jarfile with me in DMs? It's been building for 7 minutes and is at 30%

[fair merlin]

We don't really recommend this. Txslx seems like a relatively trustworthy person but that could be a random jar that contains malware.

[loud trellis]

He's the owner of LifestealSMP

[fair merlin]

Also, again, if you can't build a thing locally then you're going to have a hard time with Folia.

[loud trellis]

I doubt that.

[loud trellis]

I can build it on my Ryzen 9 9950X machine but I'm not bothered to do so

[fair merlin]

If you can't be bothered to build something then people are not likely to be bothered to assist you with stuff.

Anyway - please don't ask people in here to send you jars.

[loud trellis]

You're a great person, you've been a huge help in assisting me so far, I really appreciate you.

[fair merlin]

Your sarcasm is not appreciated. People have done their best to help you here. You haven't done your best to receive that help.

I genuinely hope you get things working and have a great weekend.

[loud trellis]

The fact you think it's sarcasm tells me you know very well how bad of a job you've been doing here.

I wish you the best of days

[fair merlin]

I've muted you for a day. Sorry. Hopefully this will help you in the future.

[mortal burrow]

Does anyone know of a stable alternative to essentialsx that supports folia?

[fair merlin]

I would probably just recommend EssentialsX

[mortal burrow]

Custom fork with folia? hmm

[daring nimbus]

there is a fork available with Folia support maintained by someone, you wouldn't need to make your own

[mortal burrow]

Do you have the link? pls

[daring nimbus]

I don't, but surely Google has one

[mild fog]

Euphoria's github page has a link to it, forgot the atual link

[steel lynx]

https://github.com/Euphillya/Essentials-Folia/releases

I joined to see if anyone has the site link for that region tester, I saw someone use it to plan out how big a world border needs to be so I wanted to try it myself.

[fair merlin]

I don't think it's public. Just a project someone made for themselves.

Perhaps they'll link you if they see this message, though.

But there's a bunch of random math distribution tools online. You want like 1000 blicks from each player. So you could maybe find a tool that'll simulate that

[steel lynx]

Ah fair enough, thank you ❤️

[warm glen]

I run Folia on a Xeon system with two CPUs. I read in the chat that Folia 1.21.11 can now use NUMA? Do I need to adjust anything in the Java flags for this, or does Folia recognize it automatically?

[umbral vault]

i talked with rootbeer on this, he have questions in his head when he made this

overall all plugins which is ported to folia may not give you the experience/smh you wanted.

someones may, but someones may not.

[fair merlin]

You’re replying to someone who has left the server.

[umbral vault]

welp, didnt saw they left

[fair merlin]

Yep, just a heads up.

[paper siren]

see the commit message here https://github.com/PaperMC/Folia/commit/eee7128bc810195ad758ea5ace1b72c600896d3b

[umbral vault]

check the numa support in your cpu with this: numactl --hardware

if you have multiple nodes more than 0, (at least 2) you can use it.

(for example, 9950x has two physical CPU chiplets (CCDs), they both connect to a single I/O Die (IOD) that manages the memory)

[warm glen]

Thanks for the information. I will check that on my system.

[umbral vault]

also lemme give you the output of command

available: 2 nodes (0-1)
node 0 cpus: 0 1 2 3 8 9 10 11
node 0 size: 32128 MB
node 0 free: 12450 MB
node 1 cpus: 4 5 6 7 12 13 14 15
node 1 size: 32256 MB
node 1 free: 28100 MB
node distances:
node   0   1 
  0:  10  21 
  1:  21  10 

(as example*)

we may try -XX:ZFakeNUMA=(0-16) but it needs a fastdebug compiled jvm (debug version of jvm) (because this flag is not in product.)

for especially on testing purposes

[warm glen]

My system appears to have two nodes. What could be the disadvantages of the new scheduler? Instability?

[umbral vault]

Node 0 free is 5.8gib and Node 1 free is 766mb 💀

yeah, you have 2 node, you can give a try

[paper siren]

that doesn't make any sense if you don't want to debug how zgc allocates regions

[umbral vault]

the tests are limited, i mean not everyone have multiple nodes

[umbral vault]

thats why i said test purposes

the fakenuma shouldnt be used in prod

[paper siren]

it's not for testing applications

[umbral vault]

uh, its for debugging

that flag is used by java devs

[paper siren]

for debugging zgc, yes. Not for debugging the folia numa-aware scheduler

[hexed ice]

(compromised account, already banned)

[mild temple]

hey, i'm wondering if it's worth getting folia for my buddy's server.

it doesn't have a lot of players, roughly like 5-15 online at a time, but i'm noticing how most of the times, tps seem to drop without RAM or CPU usage going past even 50%.
But looking at the main thread usage, it's almost always running at 100%, which is probably caused by a lot of massive cactus farms and stuff like that.

The players are usually spread apart like 20k-30k blocks and in mutiple dimensions (mostly overworld and end), but I'm not sure if that's enough for folia to actually do its thing and be more effective than paper already is

[dim merlin]

Your best bet would be to just try it
Given all plugins are compatible (if any)

But in theory it should perform better

[fair merlin]

It’s possible. Typically we’d say “send a spark report to figure out what’s causing the problem” because it’s possible that you’d switch to Folia and have the same issue(s).

[mild temple]

wait let me create one

I just do spark profiler open to get the link I assume?

https://spark.lucko.me/CHXg4miLiG

This is 1.5h of spark profiling, hope it's not too much

let me make one with spark profiler start --timeout 11 real quick

[inner swift]

Your issue is just that this CPU is not suitable to run a Minecraft server

How are you hosting the server? Most reputable budget server hosts should give you better performance

20% of your tick is ticking villagers, but you only have 10 of them

[mild temple]

here's another 11s report at a higher load: https://spark.lucko.me/X30Bcu6FGn

[mild temple]

currently a VPS

8gb ram and 4 vcpus running ubuntu

running on very low budged I think, not sure

i'm guessing it's this option on hetzner

[mild temple]

so do you think folia could reduce/fix the lag, or would he need to get a completely different server

[livid crag]

It’s only so much to can paddle your bicycle to make it go faster. You need an actual car in this case.

[mild temple]

hm alright. Is there any hosts you can recommend that would handle the server fine?

[livid crag]

For 5-15? Any reputable one should.

Whats the budget here? And location?

[mild temple]

preferably under $25 and US east coast

[fair merlin]

To put this a different way that isn't a boat analogy - Folia works "faster" by taking more advantage of a faster CPU than Paper would.

So in order to really get a benefit from Folia you still want a faster CPU. Folia is aimed at higher performance stuff. It doesn't really "squeeze" more speed out of slower CPUs.

And really, most of the folks who say their software does are being misleading. You can make stuff a bit faster but it means making compromises like disabling stuff or making various tweaks.

So that's usually where we tell folks to start. Get a good host, tweak and config your Paper server. Once you hit that limit then maybe Folia would be a good option (if your server is geared toward it).

[mild temple]

hmm I thought folia would maybe be faster by using the rest of the total CPU, as currently the load is just 100% on the main thread and all the others are pretty much unused

[fair merlin]

You still have a pretty crappy CPU

Folia wants more threads and high clock speed/fast CPU.

[hexed ice]

70% of your server tick being spent on only 20 villager entities is quite worrying (though, it is only an 11 second profile)

[mild temple]

hm alright yeah

[fair merlin]

Yeah there's some stuff like this in that report that you can focus on. Tweak the server, get a better CPU, etc. You shouldn't need to move off of Paper with this setup. You'd be limiting your plugin capabilities (and other stuff) if you switch off Paper.

[mild temple]

is there any decent server he can get with this though?

[livid crag]

In no particular order, lagless.gg, Prismnodes, bloomhost, lilipad.gg, you can check them out and with good budget of $25 you can get ryzen 9+ with all of them if switching is what you decide to do.

[mild temple]

alr I'll check them out

thank you

[livid crag]

All of them have ping checker for locations, you can do your own research but those hosts are all pretty decent.

[mild temple]

are the VPS options from some of them also good, or should he just go with the minecraft-only options?

[fair merlin]

Generally you don't want a general purpose VPS for Minecraft.

The Minecraft-specific host options tend to be a better bet.

[mild temple]

alr thanks

[timber igloo]

frankly I dont quite understand how this issue occurs.
what happens here:

1. a player seemingly sent a register packet containing a lot of plugin channels to register on (or multiple of them)
2. the player gets kicked after registerin 128 channels because the maximum amount of channels is exceeded
3. the tick thread that was responsible for doing that packet ticking freezes.. forever? The line from the stacktrace of the tickServer method does refer to the code that ends up ticking the plugin channel packet. but the stacktrace doesnt contain any information besides that

[trim moon]

😿

[viral stone]

It’s stuck in the while loop

The question would be why, id expect disconnection to clean that up, probably want to see if it can be reproduced without plugins, etc

[timber igloo]

I mean wouldnt that require hasPackets() to continously return true? and that only happens when the packet queue has been popped

also wouldnt that be visible in the stacktrace atleast some of the time

*also maybe interestingly, ive just seen someone else, running a fork of folia, with the same issue, but in their stacktrace the TickThread ownership check and the subsequent arraylist contains check is also visible.

[upbeat crag]

Between these two CPUs, how massive would the difference be when using Folia?
Is it worth paying more for the one in the first photo?

Thank you in advance

[inner swift]

Depends on how many heavy regions you'll have

[thin compass]

Between these two CPUs, the difference on Folia is noticeable, but it’s not just raw performance, it’s about how Folia scales with CPU characteristics.

• The Epyc (64c/128t, lower clock) offers much higher parallel capacity, which helps when you have a lot of regions running at the same time (large worlds, many players spread out).
• The Ryzen (16c/32t, very high clock) has much stronger per-core performance, which is great for heavy workloads inside individual regions, but it has less total parallelism.

So whether it’s “worth paying more” for the first CPU really depends on your workload:

• If you’re running huge worlds with lots of concurrent players, the EPYC can scale better.
• If your player count is lower or more centralized, the Ryzen can perform just as well or even better with proper tuning.

ahh chatgpt explain

anyways

[inner swift]

In general, the EPYC would be able to handle significantly less activity per region than the Ryzen, but way more regions

[thin compass]

While testing, I found something really interesting.

I’ve been testing large worlds on Folia — for example, a 100k × 100k map with ~1000 players — and observed the following:

• On low-clock CPUs (2–3 GHz) with very high core/thread counts (96–192 threads): → Lowering the grid-exponent helps distribute load more evenly across regions, allowing the server to handle many players without region-level lag
• On high-clock CPUs (5–6 GHz, e.g. Ryzen) with fewer cores (~16 threads): → Increasing the grid-exponent reduces the number of active regions, which helps prevent excessive region scheduling from consuming CPU time

so :

• low clock + many cores → lower grid-exponent (e.g. 2–4, depending on workload)
• high clock + fewer cores → higher grid-exponent (e.g. ~5–7)

In my case, with a high-clock CPU, the default grid is 4 had ~250 active regions at ~300 players.
After increasing the grid-exponent to 7, the number of active regions dropped to ~80–100, which saved a significant amount of CPU and allowed room for more players

[fair merlin]

Are you testing this with bots?

But basically that’s what KP said. If you have more cores you’d get more regions, but less activity per region.

[tepid tinsel]

is folia likely to break many public datapacks the same way it does w plugins?

[inner swift]

It'll break any datapack that uses command functions

[fair merlin]

And on Folia you shouldn't be using datapacks anyway.

[thin compass]

Real players

[fair merlin]

You have a Folia instance with 1,000 real players and you're able to swap physical hardware and configs a bunch to be able to test this?

[thin compass]

no no just 300 players

[fair merlin]

Oh, your message said 1,000 players.

[thin compass]

example

😭

[fair merlin]

So in your testing did you swap hardware and configs multiple times with the 300 players?

Or was that an example also?

[thin compass]

Just config on high clock cpu

after that i just calc how it do on low clock cpu

[fair merlin]

Ah okay, I misunderstood your message.

[cosmic pawn]

Apparently on my server a specific mechanic has worked differently for years and I didn't notice. It's the mechanic around item-merging. The vanilla mechanic is that when there's a moving item and a stationary item and they are in merging range, the moving item will merge into the stationary item. On my server it was the other way around. The stationary item would merge into the moving item. People have apparently built loads of farms around this principle and now those farms are broken. The thing is, I don't even know how I "fixed" it to make it go back to vanilla

But I want to unfix it now

Is there an option in paper, spigot, bukkit, configs that I don't know about?

Also I'm on folia

Which is why I asked here

[livid crag]

see reply in #paper-help since you crossposted.

[wanton gale]

Is sand duping in an end portal not a feature within Folia?

[hexed ice]

the same options that exist for duping in paper exist in folia too

[wanton gale]

Those are already set to true

if you let a block fall from up high through the portal it works, but a piston sand duper doesnt seem to work

[tardy shell]

Hi! I want to switch to folia but multiverse core isn't supporting that software. What shold i use instead of that?

[timber igloo]

theres https://modrinth.com/plugin/worlds-1 but frankly all of them rely on unsupported API

so - has a chance of making stuff not work

[tardy shell]

Okey

Thx

[north light]

is there a known bug that /setworldspawn does not work correct on folia? it does not change the wordspawn if you move it to other cords

[magic orchid]

have you tried without any plugins and datapacks? (It works fine on my server but it is not on the most recent version)

[north light]

yeah latest version

[lime kiln]

hey! are there any dupes active in the latest paper/folia version?

[fair merlin]

We don't really discuss dupes or exploits publicly. Anything that we find gets patched, is the best answer I can give.

[lime kiln]

alr! tysm

[livid crag]

They are mostly caused by poorly made plugin as well so I'd start with that.

They are not recommended.

[winter stump]

Is there a way to adjust Folia region grid size?

[livid crag]

to some degree yes, but if your players are 500 blocks or less, there is no solution.

[timber igloo]

is that a chat gpt answer thats ultimately not even really true?

[livid crag]

@latent wave please do not reply with AI generated answer, normally I wont delete the message but the one sent perviously is just flatout incorrect so I will remove it.

[stray aurora]

MoreFoWorld

[dapper veldt]

Try the plugin foliaflow and use the same config settings for paper server with sand dupers

[dapper veldt]

Try the plugin „Tweaks“ it’s working with it pretty good

[wanton gale]

That plugin is archived and not getting support anymore

[dapper veldt]

im using it for 1.21.11 and its working fine with the latest version of it

[true creek]

Hi everyone,
I’m having an issue with a player on my server and I was hoping to get some help.
One player can’t connect to the server, and when they try, it only shows the message "UUID of player."
I checked the player list, and it shows that they’re always online, but when I teleport to them, I can’t see their entity.

I’ve tried using the kick command to remove the player, but no matter how many times I repeat it, it doesn’t work.

There are no errors in the server logs. I asked around elsewhere, and people suggested it might be an issue with the scheduler.

[fair merlin]

Post a log of them joining and leaving/being kicked?

[timber igloo]

I have seen reports of similar behaviour in other discords

[primal oyster]

I'm getting the same on DonutSMP.

this rarely happens and it's due to teleportAsync, idk why but some chunks don't seem to complete the load which makes them never actually get added on the region

[umbral vault]

so there is a bottleneck about teleportAsync cant reach the speed?

[viral stone]

I mean, bottleneck has a pretty explict meaning

chunks not completing a load wouldn't be a bottleneck, that would be a pretty bleh bug to deal with

[thin compass]

my poor 9950x 💔 i need help with netty, does anyone have zstd for velocity and folia?

[low lichen]

what do you want to you use zstd for?

[thin compass]

to make server not using too much cpu for netty?

[fair merlin]

Start by posting a spark report to look at CPU usage.

[thin compass]

wdym? i have my own metric to monitor my whole full machine and unifiedmetric 💔

[fair merlin]

If you're asking for help here and it's regarding CPU usage, we'd want to see a spark report to start.

[thin compass]

oh no im just asking if anyone have zstd patch for folia and velocity so my server can use it instead zlib

[autumn edge]

That won’t help—the Minecraft client does not support Zstandard. We can compress world regions as Zstandard, not the protocol (unless you mod the client OR Mojang supports it officially).

(I know it’s possible. I’ve actually experimentally done such a patch with a Fabric mod.)

[thin compass]

no like uh player -> velocity still keep zlib

only velocity -> backend server

[autumn edge]

If you want to lower Velocity networking CPU usage related to compression you can lower the zlib compression level (set to 6 by default) and raise the compression threshold (set to 1024 by default).

[autumn edge]

That would require a non-standard patch to both Velocity and Paper/Folia.

[woven parcel]

does 8 schedulers running all the time lag the server that much?

[magic orchid]

Depends on what they do

[woven parcel]

that running all the time in 8 worlds

[fair merlin]

You want #folia-dev for dev questions.

[woven parcel]

mb

[fair merlin]

No worries

[umbral vault]

reuseport and io_uring may help atp lol.

but needs implementations by user.

[plush river]

Hello, I have been testing copper golems functionnalities recently and saw that if I go away the copper golem starts to be reallyyyyy slow (6 or 7 times slower than in vanilla). Is there a stupid reason I missed that this might not work ? (I am on a clean version of folia 1.21.11(build 10) without plugins, and of course, the chunk I put the copper golem in, is chunk loaded) I guess it has to do with a sort of activation range, but the wiki says that copper golems are excluded from this

[lofty magnet]

entity activation range maybe?

[plush river]

"Unlike most other passive mobs, copper golems do not suspend their behavior when more than 32 blocks from a player. " straight from minecraft wiki, I thought about it also at first

[lofty magnet]

I am talking about the spigot/paper setting named like that, not some vanilla mechanic with similar behaviour

[plush river]

also I am confused by the "slowing down" part, it still "works" just incredibly slower

[lofty magnet]

that would point towards the entity activation range, as that has a periodic wakeup of the entities every few ticks built-in

[plush river]

my bad x)

[lofty magnet]

excluding/separating copper golems from the rest like vanilla does it could make sense though

[plush river]

that's what I was going to say, as it stands I have (in my knowledge) no way of keeping them activated other than maxing entity activation range for I think "misc" category ? But if I do this it's a nightmare performance wise

[lofty magnet]

I wouldn't call it a "nightmare", especially not on folia xD

best to open a feature request on Paper for that tbh (if there isn't one already)

[fierce knot]

message.txt by @vapid lynx: https://pastes.dev/zql02koQiE

[north fossil]

Does paper's anti xray work on folia?

[dim merlin]

yes

[cosmic pawn]

What is the utilisation 400% thing dictated by? Like which config option. I'm wondering how to increase the max capacity

[viral stone]

the # of threads configured

[magic orchid]

the "threads" option in paper-global.yml

[cosmic pawn]

So currently this -1 value causes it to use only 4 threads? I have a 7950x3d with 16 cores and 32 threads. Whats the max physical upper limit on threads I'm able to use? Is it 32 or 16? And what's a sane limit? Like if it only counts cores, should I go with like 12 for the threads value

  grid-exponent: 4
  scheduler: CRS
  threads: -1

Either way it seems that 4 is far too low when I have 16 cores

[magic orchid]

look at this https://docs.papermc.io/folia/faq/#how-to-best-configure-folia

[cosmic pawn]

Ngl that doesn't make much very clear

[cosmic pawn]

What CPU are you running? And what does grid-exponent being 3 vs 4 really mean

[magic orchid]

there is no "official best way" of doing it.
i just roughly follow that guide and eyeball some stuff

[cosmic pawn]

Can you answer whether threads in paper-global.yml refers to a CPU core or a CPU thread?

[magic orchid]

grid-exponent basicaly controls how big each region is

[magic orchid]

threads refers to cpu threads

[cosmic pawn]

So 3 means the regions are smaller? And so you have more regions?

[magic orchid]

yes, with 3 i get multiple regions in a scenario where i only got a single one with 4

[cosmic pawn]

Damn so I can put it up to like 24 and it will be within the bounds of my 16c-32t cpu?

[magic orchid]

that is the save approach yea.
you can do that for starters and if you run out of tick threads again and notice some CPU threads still being idle then you can increase it

like i said, start somewhere save and then eyeball it if you need more

having 24 instead of 4 will already be a very great improvement

[cosmic pawn]

Yerp

[magic orchid]

but you should also take into account that other tasks require multiple threats too, like netty IO or GC

[cosmic pawn]

Surprised I've been doing this well with just 4 threads in the first place

[cosmic pawn]

yep

[magic orchid]

and reserve at least 1 thread for the OS itself

[magic orchid]

you got a CPU with very good single core.
so it can handle a lot on single core performance alone.
its just that having more threads takes advantage of the whole cpu

[cosmic pawn]

Got it originally for single-threaded performance

[magic orchid]

i would say it is a very good CPU for Folia

[cosmic pawn]

I think so too

[timber igloo]

theres still a few ticking behaviours in folia that can cause these exceptions, when an entity in one tick region attempts to access entities of another tick region. like this one

[fleet spire]

How good is the server health looking now with the updated thread config?

[cosmic pawn]

Good, I'd say. Considering that our multi-region ticking thing was only taking advantage of 4 threads instead of 20

And we've had such improvement already from 4.

[fleet spire]

Awesome! Would be interested to see the utilisation stats when we have that many ppl on a again.

[frail hornet]

is there any way to decrease region merge distance?

[magic orchid]

the closest thing we got is the grid-exponent setting in paper-global.yml

reducing that number reduces the region size (Ofcourse only if people are not too close to each other).
On a server a while back I only got 1 region with that being set to 4 but when I set it to 3 I got multiple regions

[sly pagoda]

Hi everyone!
I'm trying to use multiple worlds on Folia, but I'm having issues: Multiverse doesn't work, and the Worlds plugin is breaking the chat.

[livid crag]

@sly pagoda don’t cross post

[sly pagoda]

sorry

[austere moss]

does anyone know how to force the MultiThreaded Tick Regions to have a Max amount of chunks in them, cause on our server the players are all about in radius of 3k blocks around the spawn and there are like 2-3 regions so the TPS are at rock bottom with like a max of 11

[livid crag]

You cannot force that. If players are too close, they will need to be in the same region.

[north light]

How far must players be that they are not in the same region anymore?

[north light]

Thx but what is too close?

How many Blocks?

[inner swift]

Around 1000

If players pass by close to each other causing regions to merge, they'll resist unmerging, so it could be more in that case

[primal oyster]

It highly depends on the configuration

It relies on shifting coordinates to do the merging

Technically with your own hands on the deck you can get that to be a few chunks

Just gotta have the courage and mess with it

[vapid lynx]

Not sure if its a bug or setting but on folia we have a very commonly used raid farm but the raiders seem to not go through the portal, My guess its the portal cooldown which is either higher as a setting of paper or a bug of folia. or something else.

[inner swift]

Probably worth investigating what is their despawning behavior in multiplayer, it's a little peculiar

Raider despawning
Raiders that are part of a raid do not contribute to the mob cap and do not despawn naturally until the raid is over or they get far enough away from the raid center. It is also required that the chunks they are in are reloaded (for example by getting out of render distance and coming back) or they don't disappear even if the player is >128 blocks away.

Maybe it's an instance of

[vapid lynx]

case is, I am on ther other side of the portal but they still dont go through

I load both sides (With my alt)

either I built it wrong (Dont think so, I was using the schematic) or its a bug or setting

[livid crag]

Entity has a cool down before they can enter portal again, how long has those been there?

[vapid lynx]

dont know, but how long is the cooldown?

I saw people in the comments on youtube that it works in 1.21.10 but cant find out why this doesnt work

Since I dont know if they are using fabric, paper or folia, where I am right now on folia

[north light]

Is there a way to reduce that? To like 250 blocks?

[north light]

Where can i configer that?

[primal oyster]

global config

[north light]

Do you know what do i have to change?

[primal oyster]

yeah

grid-exponent

[north light]

To what?

[primal oyster]

2

[north light]

And what does this do? Do the regions get smaler? And what about 1?

[north light]

Default is 4 right?

[primal oyster]

idk

[primal oyster]

i dont think u can do 1.

try it

but the mem overhead will be crazy

cpu too

[north light]

But how with grid exponent 2 in the config it seems very big

[primal oyster]

no bro

ur not getting to a few chunks without customizing it

[magic orchid]

are you sure your players are spread out enough?

[north light]

ok and how du i do this?

[north light]

they are to close thats the problem

[livid crag]

Folia isnt an ideal solution for you if your player are just too close. There is no way around it @north light

[magic orchid]

then Folia is just not the solution you need

[north light]

but is there no way to reduce the 1k to like 500 blocks of player distance

[hollow salmon]

yo, I'm new to writing plugins for Folia and I'm currently unsure whether to choose Kotlin or Java.

[dim merlin]

do you know either of them?

[hollow salmon]

I know both.

[dim merlin]

the general go to is java since basically the entire eco system is java only

so i would recommend using that

[hollow salmon]

Oh, thank you!

So should I use Gradle or Maven to build?

[timber igloo]

gradle because basically all of the tooling is designed around it

paperweight etc.

[dim merlin]

maven is awful and gradle is awesome
thats all i am going to say

[hollow salmon]

Okay, thanks guys!

[fair merlin]

Nope. ~1000 is the smallest it will go.

If the players are too close you should probably use Paper.

[north light]

Do you know why?

[livid crag]

Two region cannot touch each other. The space between two players has to be certain distance over as buffer.
(Most non-technical explanation i can come up with)

[fair merlin]

What Eternity said, basically. It's how Folia was designed.

If the players are too close they're just in one region.

[north light]

Yeah i know i figured that out… merge at round about 800 and the merge split at 1200…
But if the server view distance is at 8 chunks woud 400 Merge in and 650 Merge out work?

[livid crag]

Please see what ocelot said. This is a technical limitation.

[inner swift]

It has to be higher due to worldgen

[fair merlin]

~900 is the lowest it can possibly get.

If players are closer, you want to use Paper.

[north light]

Does this improve the Performance with 50 players?

[livid crag]

You can do 50 people on Paper easily with slight gameplay nerfs.

[vapid lynx]

problem still persists on folia. Otherside plugin is not updated and not folia compatible. How do I fix my farm tho?! 😄

[lime kiln]

Hey guys, anyone knows anything about this?
Players are bugging when going through Nether portals while inside a boat (sometimes with a villager). The screen turns completely black, like falling into the void, and after disconnecting the player can’t rejoin because the server thinks they’re still online.

[tulip swift]

[21:33:35 ERROR]: [ca.spottedleaf.moonrise.common.util.TickThread] Thread Region Scheduler Thread #0 failed main thread check: Cannot update owner state asynchronously

[lime kiln]

when they do that, i get:

Entity threw exception at world_nether:5.298300709645618,72.0,5.881312189102742
java.lang.IllegalStateException: World mismatch: expected world but got world_nether

[fair merlin]

Which version / build?

[fair merlin]

Post a log

[tulip swift]

https://mclo.gs/Ol6dt5g

[viral stone]

.4 is no longer supported

I semi recall something about that bug on the GitHub, no idea what state it was in

[fair merlin]

Yeah would update. Lots of changes there.

[tulip swift]

how do i make sure my plugin works well with newer versions of the server?

[viral stone]

Test it?

[tulip swift]

should i keep a copy of the old server

[viral stone]

You should always have backups

[agile jay]

Hey, I have two little questions. I heard that folia even does improvements with less than 16 cores is that true?

Atm I have rented 2 vps one with 6 cores and 3,7ghz CPU and one with 4 cores and 5,7ghz CPU would it be worth it to host folia on one of them than just use paper on the 5,7ghz CPU?

[magic orchid]

It is not reccommended but nothing is stopping you from trying

If you have 6 threads on that VPS, i would say dont even bother.
If you have 12 then its still too little but might work out if your server is not that big

Folia basicaly wants the same single core performance as paper, just more cores of it at once.
So you really do not want to chose a slower cpu just because it got more cores.
I got some xeon gold cpus with plenty of cores but they suck for folia because their single core is super bad

[lime kiln]

1.21.11, build #10

[true creek]

Sorry for the delayed reply.
My server data mysteriously disappeared, and I can't find any logs regarding deletion. Therefore, I can't find the original logs.
The news of these players leaving and disconnecting from the client may be due to my use of velocity.
A read timeout is displayed on Velocity, and then the client shows a connection timeout.
There is nothing else. After some investigation, I guess it might be caused by a plugin, because this problem did not occur before I installed this plugin.

[little grotto]

Is it better to pre-generate world without players on Folia or Paper? If Folia, how can I set up config to utilize all cores for parallel generating?

[modest kestrel]

paper

[livid crag]

Do it without players and plugins on Paper

[tropic oasis]

I have a question regarding the problem with ender pearls vanishing when you change dimension. I looked it up and found the Github post(Fix Folia #421/#423) but I didn't quite understand where to find the information that needs to be changed to implement the proposed fix.

[fair merlin]

There’s no fix merged. You could fork folia and modify it however you’d like, but that’s outside the scope of this channel.

[frail pelican]

I have a folia server that doesnt seem to be adding new regions for seperate areas of the map

it only creates regions for overworld and nether

[fair merlin]

Are your players too close together?

[fair merlin]

Players need be 1000+ blocks away from each other.

[frail pelican]

yes, i have two chunks of players 3000 blocks from each other

[fair merlin]

Send a spark report?

[frail pelican]

will do

[mortal burrow]

Has anyone else experienced a situation where one region has low TPS, while the rest don't? This region has practically nothing, 0 players. Looks like generating chunks

[fair merlin]

We don’t support offline mode servers (as you have been told).

[little grotto]

How can I change wandering trader trades on Folia?

[lofty magnet]

"change" in what way?

[little grotto]

Remove vanilla trades and add custom trades

[hexed ice]

you would need a plugin to add custom trades, or wait until 26.1 releases where they become data driven and you can do it with a datapack

[little grotto]

I could not find plugin for these purposes that supports Folia, unfortunately

[magic orchid]

Folia is more experimental so you need to be prepared to make custom plugins if you want to use it

[little grotto]

"I" already made two plugins to block journeymap+xaero and for team management, but I'm locked out until Friday :D
I guess wandering traders will be disabled for now...

[livid crag]

how do you block a client side mod?

[magic orchid]

I think those two mods have some special feature where they can be disabled by the server.
But it is build into the mods

[livid crag]

so it still rely on client trust? seems to be easy to bypass

[magic orchid]

Yeah there is a """"hack""""" version of xaeros which removes that.
The official xaeros page even explicitly calls that version out

[magic orchid]

But please dont rely too much on AI, one or two simple features are no problem but anything extra ontop of that and you will end up with the worst code ever.

[livid crag]

Yeah the resource is ARR but people who use hack ain’t going to care lol

[little grotto]

It also detect using of xaeroplus somehow (just tested)
UPD. Looks like it took implementation from Minimap Control plugin

[timber igloo]

some mods make it very easy (xaero disables certain features when you send it a chat message and also opens plugin message channels), but theres also currently an exploit that allows you to figure out what translation keys (=keybinds) are registered on a client which allows you to figure out if the client is using certain mods. but obviously all of that still relies on client trust and can be bypassed

but in any case this is not really relevant to this channel

[lime kiln]

hey guys! do know whats may be causing this?

[mortal burrow]

did you check the spark?

[lime kiln]

what should i check?

[mortal burrow]

something unusual, like a plugin with high cpu usage

looks like an issue that i had

[lime kiln]

spark doesnt show my plugins use, idk y

[mortal burrow]

its just with that region?

or changes over time

[lime kiln]

2 different regions

[mortal burrow]

and check if that happens from the moment the server starts or maybe some point in the time

[fair merlin]

Post the spark report, not a screenshot?

[vapid lynx]

wait. Spark is avalible on folia? the command disappeared when switching from paper to folia

[viral stone]

You need the plugin

[frail pelican]

https://spark.lucko.me/0AVfuwjUxb
seems to be empty

[frail pelican]

resolved the lag issue, one of my staff set randtickrate at 9

any other JAVA args i should add:
https://spark.lucko.me/1z8IjUTRIO

[arctic bear]

the latest commit of folia fixed this bug

[little grotto]

Does initial-enabled-packs=vanilla,minecart_improvements doesn't work on Folia 1.21.8? I don't see /gamerule minecartMaxSpeed command

[livid crag]

is your world already exist before the datapack is enabled or after?

[little grotto]

my world was already pre-generated, I forgot to enable this datapack

[livid crag]

You have to manually add them in then

@little grotto see this #paper-help message be warned to do backup first

[lime kiln]

Has anyone seen random player-specific timeouts only on Folia, while Paper works fine behind Velocity?
The players affected usually disconnect when close to mobs or other players, and both Velocity and Folia only show a generic timed out. We already tested without plugins and even disabled Anti-Xray mode 2 (helped some players, not all). Could this be related to entity updates, networking, MTU/packet fragmentation, or Velocity keepalive/compression, or even something involving Geyser/Floodgate? Any insight would help a lot.

The setup is a Ryzen 9 7950X host with 128GB RAM, running Velocity (8GB) in front of a Paper lobby 1.21.10 (4GB) and a Folia 1.21.8 (28GB)survival backend. The issue only happens on the Folia server, the same players stay stable on the lobby. We also tested with DDoS protection disabled and mirrored the setup on a test server, but the behavior stays inconsistent (some players improve, others don’t).

[timber igloo]

on folia specifically, ive seen ping spikes, sometimes at the same time as IO spikes, never timeouts tho

[rancid anchor]

Is there a way to divide a Folia server into shards? So that multiple physical servers can host the same world.

[finite hinge]

No, that's a different kind of thing altogether. There was a project for doing that called MultiPaper but afaik it had some problems and was even harder to write plugins for (distributed computing is basically the hardest kind of programming there is)

[livid crag]

Also depend on why your “same world” means in this context. You can use the same seed on all your sub servers and host them individually by divides the word into smaller sections with borders.

[primal oyster]

[rancid anchor]

How to achieve that?

[finite hinge]

With a bunch of custom software, basically

[livid crag]

Ask the guy above you /s

But yeah DonutSMP has the current best impl of sharding with Folia imo.

[primal oyster]

Honestly it's too crazy

That's why I quit

Endedup on a psycho place

[rancid anchor]

Sounds like a lot of fun

How to start this adventure?

[finite hinge]

Hey that's why I quit Bukkit too 😄

[primal oyster]

Sometimes u gotta pick your value and health

[warped umbra]

know a fix

[hallow cedar]

does Folioa implement all Vanilla behaviour?

I want to make a vanilla server for 50 players and considering Folia or a modded server with optimize server-side-only mods

how about the world files

will Folia accept papermc world?