folia-help

[chrome loom]

Depends on how much load you have different flags may be advantageous.

[swift flicker]

what if you just make a 5000 block line from accounts that will load the chunks?

[proper coyote]

Is Folia worth it for a 10k by 10k map with 500 players?

[swift flicker]

will that be a whole region or a lot of them?

[modest kestrel]

there is a non-zero chance that all the regions will merge into a single one

which will effectively make it work like a worse version of paper

[inner swift]

No

[inner swift]

"Too close to each other" means around 1k blocks or less apart

[proper coyote]

oh wow- 10,000 block width/height not enough for Folia?

What would you say the minimal map size is to make Folia effective?

[livid crag]

it depend on how your players play

[lofty magnet]

ideally your players are always more than 1000 blocks apart

[livid crag]

• 2 player never meet each other can be fine on a 2k x 2k map
• 50 player who always together will not work on any map

[proper coyote]

ahhh, alright

[dusk warren]

You stole my computer

[somber fog]

how do i preview the entity data of an entity?

is there an alternative to /data?

[daring nimbus]

a plugin could add a similar functionality

[somber fog]

oh i wanted to avoid making one

oh well

what does this mean

[01:19:49 ERROR]: [ca.spottedleaf.moonrise.common.util.TickThread] Thread failed main thread check: Accessing entity state off owning region's thread, context=[thread=Region Scheduler Thread #4,class=io.papermc.paper.threadedregions.TickRegionScheduler$TickThreadRunner,region={null}], entity={root=[{type=ItemEntity,id=42793,uuid=98fcca7f-a4d1-4cbe-919c-4a104d5503c9,pos=(-33.082,72.988,-9.349),mot=(-0.084,0.032,0.050),aabb=AABB[-33.20654296875, 72.987548828125, -9.474365234375] -> [-32.95654296875, 73.237548828125, -9.224365234375],removed=null,has_vehicle=false,passenger_count=0], vehicle=[{null}], passengers=[]

[daring nimbus]

something attempted to access an entity from the wrong thread

make sure you use the EntityScheduler from Entity#getScheduler

[somber fog]

i'm trying to get something to run on the next tick (ItemMergeEvent - i'm trying to modify the merged item after it's merged), so do i just use runDelayed with a delay of 1 tick?

[timber igloo]

yes

besides: the smallest number that runDelayed will work with is 1

[somber fog]

[timber igloo]

(well depends with what you mean with "modifying the item after its merged"

i.e you cannot cancel the event anymroe

[somber fog]

private static void merge(ItemEntity destinationEntity, ItemStack destinationStack, ItemEntity originEntity, ItemStack originStack) {
        // CraftBukkit start
        if (!org.bukkit.craftbukkit.event.CraftEventFactory.callItemMergeEvent(originEntity, destinationEntity)) {
            return;
        }
        // CraftBukkit end
        merge(destinationEntity, destinationStack, originStack); // <-- NEED TO RUN SOMETHING AFTER THIS LINE
        destinationEntity.pickupDelay = Math.max(destinationEntity.pickupDelay, originEntity.pickupDelay);
        destinationEntity.age = Math.min(destinationEntity.age, originEntity.age);
        if (originStack.isEmpty()) {
            originEntity.discard(org.bukkit.event.entity.EntityRemoveEvent.Cause.MERGE); // CraftBukkit - add Bukkit remove cause
        }
    }

[vestal basin]

Flags kinda depend more on the ram you have allocated rather than the server software, the main use for flags is to optimize gc

You can play around with zgc tho (I was looking at the docs on paper about zgc, but apparently got removed lol)

[chrome loom]

ZGC does work well in some use cases but it will eat up more cpu

[vestal basin]

yh, but I'm assuming if they're using folia they already have a good cpu and prob enough ram

[errant wyvern]

Someone said that having skyblock islands in different worlds would be useless for folia, because there would be too many regions

But in this image it clearly shows each island in its own region

Which would be like having each island in separate world

So now I don't understand the issue for having islands in different worlds

[manic quarry]

they were wrong. a region is a region

doesn't matter if it's in a separate world or not

the only thing limiting you would be amount of physical threads on your cpu

[paper siren]

Generally "too many regions" doesn’t make sense, you basically want as many regions as possible (while trying to avoid frequent merging and splitting) so these regions can be ticked independently

[quaint panther]

and so you can use fully the server cpu threads

[rotund turtle]

hi

uhmmm

how can i enable function command in folia?

[quaint panther]

you can't

[rotund turtle]

why 😭

[lofty magnet]

because it's not compatible with how folia works

[oblique sinew]

.

[north shale]

What?

[woeful zinc]

is there a good free or paid anticheat for folia?

[dim merlin]

grim

[elder maple]

Does the region have a fixed size? If not, what are the minimum/maximum sizes it can have?

[finite hinge]

maximum can be an entire world

[timber igloo]

minimum is 1 chunk

[finite hinge]

Nah, it's like 25x25 chunks iirc

Probably larger?

I know you have to be something like 700 blocks away from someone to have a chance of being in a different region so maybe like 32x32 chunks?

[timber igloo]

dont they only allow you to configure the exponent? you couldnt do 25 but at best 16 or 32

looks to me like its 2 to the power of 2 (1) to 2 to the power of 32

[finite hinge]

It is at least somewhat based on view-distance too but I think you'd need a view-distance above like 20 for it to make your minimum region size go up, everything below that was the same

I had all the math worked at at one point and wrote it up in here but that was also before the grid exponent config and before the default was changed

I also kind of forgot it all anyway 😛

[woeful zinc]

is there any known bug were villagers don't get jobs?

or with villagers despawning

[inner swift]

As far as I know, no, make sure you don't have any "explot fixing" plugins as they can instroduce this kind of issue

As for villagers disappearing, probably not anything Paper causes, there's been many vanilla bug reports of this but it's uncertain whether this is an actual issue or just villagers being dum enough to walk off a cliff and die

[woeful zinc]

its happening constantly villagers dont take jobs villagers despawn villagers take jobs and lock them without trading or villagers dont decrease price when cured

[viral stone]

Mojang added logs to determine when villagers are actually dying

much other stuff often gets confusing in general due to how villagers work being hard to debug by proxy

[woeful zinc]

no message the villagers just stopped existing i checked

ill write a plugin to monitor villager activity ig

[gray cedar]

my server keeps disconnecting all players every hour or so with this msg in console each time it times them out (all at the same time) and eventually crashes shortly after.
[15:36:19 WARN]: Failed to deliver packet, sending fallback clientbound/minecraft:system_chat io.netty.channel.StacklessClosedChannelException: null at io.netty.channel.AbstractChannel.close(ChannelPromise)(Unknown Source) ~[netty-transport-4.1.118.Final.jar:4.1.118.Final]

[viral stone]

it failed to send the packet because the connection was closed

that is not the cause of your issues, that is a symtom

[gray cedar]

hmm dang

idk what is causing this issue. my players are starting to get really upset :/

the only other error i see is this
[15:53:18 ERROR]: Could not pass event AsyncPlayerConnectionConfigureEvent to Essentials v2.22.0-dev+44-9416b84-Folia java.lang.NullPointerException: Cannot invoke "com.earth2me.essentials.User.startTransaction()" because "dUser" is null at EssentialsX-2.22.0-dev+44-9416b84-Folia.jar/com.earth2me.essentials.EssentialsPlayerListener$JoinListener1_21.onPlayerConfigure(EssentialsPlayerListener.java:351) ~[EssentialsX-2.22.0-dev+44-9416b84-Folia.jar:?] at co.aikar.timings.TimedEventExecutor.execute(TimedEventExecutor.java:80) ~[folia-api-1.21.8-R0.1-SNAPSHOT.jar:?] at org.bukkit.plugin.RegisteredListener.callEvent(RegisteredListener.java:71) ~[folia-api-1.21.8-R0.1-SNAPSHOT.jar:?] at io.papermc.paper.plugin.manager.PaperEventManager.callEvent(PaperEventManager.java:54) ~[folia-1.21.8.jar:1.21.8-5-7a1c5c7] at io.papermc.paper.plugin.manager.PaperPluginManagerImpl.callEvent(PaperPluginManagerImpl.java:131) ~[folia-1.21.8.jar:1.21.8-5-7a1c5c7] at org.bukkit.plugin.SimplePluginManager.callEvent(SimplePluginManager.java:628) ~[folia-api-1.21.8-R0.1-SNAPSHOT.jar:?] at org.bukkit.event.Event.callEvent(Event.java:46) ~[folia-api-1.21.8-R0.1-SNAPSHOT.jar:?] at io.papermc.paper.connection.PaperConfigurationTask.lambda$start$0(PaperConfigurationTask.java:37) ~[folia-1.21.8.jar:1.21.8-5-7a1c5c7] at java.base/java.util.concurrent.ThreadPoolExecutor.runWorker(ThreadPoolExecutor.java:1144) ~[?:?] at java.base/java.util.concurrent.ThreadPoolExecutor$Worker.run(ThreadPoolExecutor.java:642) ~[?:?] at java.base/java.lang.Thread.run(Thread.java:1583) ~[?:?]

if that's not the cause for the timeouts and its not giving any other error msgs in console. what should i do/try?

[viral stone]

I mean, that's an error with ess

[gray cedar]

yeah i figured it wouldnt be the issue

[viral stone]

the first error you talked about is due to general packet sending when the connection is dead

timeouts are timeouts, you would need to work out why the connection timed out

[gray cedar]

so do youthink its a server side thing?

[viral stone]

that is generally networking issues or something failed to keep the connection open, but, keepalives should generally do that part in terms of server <> client

[gray cedar]

okay thank you i will try and contact my server host

[viral stone]

the timeout handlers are quite simply a "we didn't recieve a packet in X amount of time", which would generally be networking issues

[gray cedar]

okay ty!

[quaint panther]

so it will be the hosting side? (just asking because this happen also even in paper)

[quaint panther]

this one

[viral stone]

Don't know

[quaint panther]

that's really weird then , because mostly weird is it getting fix if the player lower their own view distance to 2

[viral stone]

I mean, it's a fairly generic side-effect to a whole host of issues

chunk packets are one of the bulkier packets for the server; having to lower their VD would sound like an issue with the network

You would need to see if the client logs have anything interesting

[quaint panther]

but it's only happening to 1 guy only which is weird even 1.21.7 used and 1.21.8 is used(client version), once he enter the error will include what the person send and kick the player with keep alive even it's off or any settings and the whole server will died along it very soon

[viral stone]

I mean, there is nothing I can advise on without any form of logs, etc

But, if it is networking related, there is nothing we can advise on either, you'd need to speak to your host and pray they can diagnose network stuff

[jaunty dragon]

Hi, I have a question for people familiar with this topic.

Is it feasible on the Folia engine to maintain 1,000 players on a single instance, with a world size of 18408 x 9190, on a R 9 9950X or R 9 7950X?

Is a result of around a thousand players on a single instance achievable with well-optimized plugins and slightly limited values, with ~1.000 players giving 18–20 TPS and meybe 40–50 mspt?

[viral stone]

one would need to do the maths, but, I'd imagine not

[jaunty dragon]

Is it that the map is too small? 🧐

[viral stone]

as I said, one would need to do the maths

but, I would fear that you wouldn't have the needed player spread in order to actually have useful regions form

[jaunty dragon]

Well, this option is probably not for me

[swift flicker]

Can you savestate chunk on folia? Is that real?

[daring nimbus]

not sure what you mean by that

[swift flicker]

https://mcdf.wiki.gg/wiki/Java_Edition:Chunk_Savestating

[cosmic pawn]

Never thought this day would come. Paper actually officially released Folia builds on the website

[fair merlin]

That happened a while ago, yes.

[cosmic pawn]

Only checked just now

[deep basin]

hey guyz anybody knows if folia 1.21.9 will comoe soon?

[hexed ice]

no

[swift flicker]

Can you chunk savestate on folia?
https://mcdf.wiki.gg/wiki/Java_Edition:Chunk_Savestating

[timber igloo]

youve asked this a few lines above 😛
if it doesn't work on paper, it likely doesn't work on folia

[dim dome]

Hey is there any information about a roadmap for 1.21.9?

[wraith pelican]

i just got a quick question, is geyser / bedrock supported on folia servers? (Or does geyser support folia in other words)

[quaint panther]

yes

[dim dome]

okay thanks

[jade dagger]

Wierd question but Folia is a fork of what?

[rare hare]

Folia is a fork of Paper.

[fair merlin]

It’s a fork of Paper, as stefvanschie said. But it has a bunch of underlying changes to make it work.

[jade dagger]

Ah, thanks to you both

[dapper veldt]

Someone knows when folia 1.21.9 releases?

[dapper veldt]

Alright thanks

[rotund turtle]

i need a spear on folia

very very very need

[viral stone]

Spears literally aren't in vanilla yet...

[night iris]

How are we supposed to dispatch commands onDisable, when the shutdown thread doesn't accept them and the scheduler is halted already?

[finite hinge]

You aren't

[night iris]

Cool

[viral stone]

The thing is tearing down

allowing you to do that sorta thing would rely on the server still ticking, which you obviously don't want during shutdown

[night iris]

Then, can I dispatch them right before that happens?

[viral stone]

there isn't any real hooks for that afaik

[night iris]

I spent hours looking for one, yeah

[viral stone]

the API doesn't really have a proper async event system which would be needed to pull this off

[night iris]

I let users specify custom effects that can have a command that applies them and a command that removes them. When the server shuts down, I need to make sure all effects are removed, so I realistically need to dispatch all set undo-commands

[finite hinge]

You just have to save the need for a remove and do it when they come back

[night iris]

Yeah that could work, though it seems far from ideal

[night iris]

That's what I mean (for context)

effects:
- COMMAND / attribute %PlayerName% minecraft:oxygen_bonus modifier add bodyhealth_configured_effect 1 add_value
- COMMAND_UNDO / attribute %PlayerName% minecraft:oxygen_bonus modifier remove minecraft:bodyhealth_configured_effect

[finite hinge]

Your design only worked on Paper by accident, more or less, doing anything to the players/world at shutdown/disable was always kind of a bad idea

[daring nimbus]

just use transient modifiers

those aren't persisted with playerdata, so they will be gone after a restart

[night iris]

Those commands can be anything

[night iris]

This seems like the only real option then, thanks for suggesting that

[tardy zinc]

Are PlayerTeleportEvent and other things that were disabled earlier enabled there?

[viral stone]

No

Those events are disabled because of the context issue still, until the event system has some feature additions that is not going to happen

[tardy zinc]

((

And when approximately will this be implemented?

[deep basin]

hey guyz anybody experienced a situation about RAM/CPU limits in Folia? I can't exceed over 40% cpu and 32G ram, even though java has issued 128g ram and no limit on CPU, its like this.

[quaint panther]

send spark profiler

[eager carbon]

I've experienced an issue where Folia will generate multiple nether portals in the overworld when I create one in the nether, I had an idea that it might be generating a portal per thread

but if i make a portal in the overworld, it only generates 1 in the nether

[river tide]

Any luckperm alternative for folia

[dim merlin]

does that also happen without plugins?
i had a somewhat similar issue recently too but wasnt sure if it was plugin related or not
also it was only on my test server with heavily f'd up configs
check your world defaults

[lofty magnet]

@river tide there is a PR open for it with builds available: https://github.com/LuckPerms/LuckPerms/pull/3615

[river tide]

Oh thanks

[eager carbon]

I have 1 plugin which is ImageFrame which I doubt would cause the issue but I can check later, I will also do the same for the world defaults

however, I would like to note that

nothing is actually modified in terms of the world

settings

its just a vanilla server with ImageFrame installed

[lofty magnet]

https://i.phoenix616.dev/hoyTcXL7.png :thonk:

ah wait, nvm, apparently I'm blind lmao

thought that said 1.21.6

[fleet rock]

Hi, I'm using the latest version of Paper Folia. I reached 200 users and implemented a command that kicked everyone out. Since then, many things haven't worked or are running too slowly, such as the RTP and the SMARTSPAWNERS spawners, among other plugins like SMP portals and more. Does anyone know the solution?

[boreal pewter]

how to fix its?

[fierce knot]

message.txt by @boreal pewter: https://pastes.dev/8UorCBDebq

[boreal pewter]

This server is running Folia version 1.21.4-6-ver/1.21.4@b785bcc (2025-06-13T21:52:33Z) (Implementing API version 1.21.4-R0.1-SNAPSHOT)

[timber igloo]

this is a bit too broad for anyone to give you concrete advice

1. what 'type' of server do you run? is it optimal for folia?
2. for performance, can you provide a spark profiler?
3. for issues with plugins, contact the plugin authors

[deep basin]

unfortunately dont have spark installed :/

[frigid vine]

AMD EPYC 7763 - 12 Core - 64GB or Ryzen 9 9950X 4 CORE 16GB ? what's better for folia

[little sable]

Neither, Folia requires a minimum of 16 cores

[frigid vine]

for 100 player?

[viral stone]

Doesn't require it, it's just recommended as in, if you're not able to justify spending that much you probably shouldn't be looking at folia

What hardware you actually need is going to depend on many factors, web CPUs can work (such as that epyc) but you're generally going to be limited in how fast a single region can perform

can't really provide figures for every single piece of hardware and server need

[tiny olive]

If the CPU has less than 16 cores, is it recommended not to use folia?

[daring nimbus]

if you are in the intended folia target audience, you should be able to afford a proper CPU

[old linden]

I have a question, can anyone answer it?
Is it okay if I use Purpur as normal and use the folia for my game worlds?
So can I use these two under one roof?

[scarlet ginkgo]

i hope you dont mean as one server as thats impossible

[old linden]

😔

[scarlet ginkgo]

you can use both under velocity tho

but on different servers

[old linden]

tysm

^^

[radiant juniper]

Hello, anyone here has experimented with modifying Regionizer implementation variables ? I'm interested in reducing considerably the region size, and if needed, disable minecraft vanilla features for it. Interested in any take on this, thank you.

[dim merlin]

that sounds like you dont need folia and wont actually profit from it at all
if you are willing to compromise vanilla features just use paper and tweak the configurations the way you need it

[radiant juniper]

I've done that already, but for this specific use case, I have an epyc 9654 with lot's of cores and I wish to use Folia.

[dim merlin]

well... i have a lot of wishes too
but that doesnt mean they are logical
you wont profit from folia
i bet you will even have a worse experience in terms of performance and compatibility

[viral stone]

Folias intent is to maintain vanilla functionality

I don't think that leaf wants to expose the ability to break that, we can't make a list of what would need to be disabled at specific levels

that would probably be "maintain it yourself" territory

[radiant juniper]

I know about the compatibility, and no, I won't have better performances, single core performance is not good on an epyc 9654, for my specific use case I know Folia is what is best. I've ran factions server with 200+ connected already, and I can go higher disabling a lot of features, but to go to the next step, such as 1000+, I will have to use Folia.

[dim merlin]

that was misleading
i meant plugin compatibility 😅

[boreal pewter]

[20:35:38] [Region Scheduler Thread #6/ERROR]: [ca.spottedleaf.moonrise.common.util.TickThread] Thread failed main thread check: Cannot move entity off-main, context=[thread=Region Scheduler Thread #6,class=io.papermc.paper.threadedregions.TickRegionScheduler$TickThreadRunner,region={center=[27, -7],world=world}], world=world, chunk_pos=[-105, -67]

how to fix its

[timber igloo]

send the full stack trace

this could be a plugin related iissue, or, more rarely, an actual bug in folias code

[acoustic garden]

Hi

[fierce knot]

message.txt by @acoustic garden: https://pastes.dev/4YjhlN2rcY

[acoustic garden]

Could it be that the cause of the crash is the PvPManager?

[vernal thorn]

I run a 10 player MC Server for my friendgroup on my $10 6-Core EPYC RS, and Folio performed better than Paper. We have 3 main bases roughly 2000-3000 blocks apart. Every base was its own region and even when 2 regions where merged, it still maintained 20tps in situations where paper previously didn't.
So even if Folia is not intended to perform on cheap high core epyc rs or vps, it can performs quite well.

I still switched back to paper as players missed the player locator bar.

[livid crag]

Chance is your experience will be the same on Paper server as well.

[north shale]

Folia is completely unnecessary for 10 players. A normal Paper server on any decent hardware should be able to handle that without any lag issues.

[dim merlin]

even on slow hardware 10 players should be fine 😄

[inner swift]

This is not necessarily true if you're running a farm based server, assuming there's enough spread like the case above

Splitting tick threads in hardware that is limited by single threaded performance but not multi threaded makes a lot of difference

[rare hare]

If there are multiple intensive farms running in different regions then Folia might be better. The 16 cores guideline is really just that if you have that many cores and your server type fits Folia, Folia will generally perform better than Paper. Depending on the intricacies of your hardware and setup you might still be able to get better performance with a lower amount of cores, but this is much less common and so in general we don't recommend it. Especially when people are trying to make purchasing decisions, it's better to err on the side of caution. But of course, you're free to give Folia a shot on your server and if it turns out it does perform better, more power to you.

[north shale]

10 different farms on paper will still run fine if you have semi decent hardware

Just optimize where you need to

[livid crag]

I think Kyle is referring to the need of efficieny, given the players are far enough to create their own region, the logic to run mobspawning will be ran on each region and restores behavior closer to Vanilla server when only ONE player is online.

Still a very niche use.

[viral stone]

There are advantages even on fairly modest hardware, nobody who knows what they're talking about would say otherwise

the caveats are literally in their statement on why they returned to paper, they wanted something that folia doesn't support; that's the sorta reasoning why I say that the requirements for folia are more of a budgetary marker than anything, hiring a dev to reimplement that sorta thing is part of the "folia experience"

[strong nimbus]

Execution failed for task ':folia-server:cloneSpigotBuildData'.
> io.papermc.paperweight.PaperweightException: Command finished with 128 exit code: git -c commit.gpgsign=false -c core.safecrlf=false fetch --depth 1 origin 436eac9815c211be1a2a6ca0702615f995e81c44```

how to fix it?

[scarlet ginkgo]

enable long paths in git

[strong nimbus]

thx

[balmy solstice]

hello, I have a server that uses folia 1.21.4 and every now and then it shuts down by itself giving the following error:
https://pastebin.com/rynAuL96

[daring nimbus]

That error is kinda useless sadly.

Generally with pretty experimental software like Folia it's a good idea to stay on the latest build. 1.21.4 is quite outdated at this point

[balmy solstice]

is there anything I can do without changing the version?

[scarlet ginkgo]

Unless it's caused by a plugin, no

folia doesn't backport fixes to older versions

it's a release rolling software

[balmy solstice]

okay, thank you

[balmy solstice]

so.. i switched to folia 1.21.8 (github version) and when i try to log in this happens:

[viral stone]

so, something messed up a chunk packet

you'll need to work out what

[balmy solstice]

😩

[balmy solstice]

I removed all the plugins and put them back and now everything works, haha

[acoustic holly]

Hello, I have a question. It says that placeholderapi is not compatible with folia. I don't know about this?

[north shale]

What’s the question?

If it says it’s not compatible, it’s probably not compatible.

[timber igloo]

they have folia builds im pretty sure

[daring bane]

Is there exist like fawe fork for folia ?

[scarlet ginkgo]

https://github.com/FreshSMP/FastAsyncWorldEdit

there’s this one

[daring bane]

Thank you

[acoustic holly]

I phrased it poorly, but I've figured it out now

[cunning cradle]

Any updates on Folia 1.21.9, or should we just wait until it's ready as usual?

[scarlet ginkgo]

there definitely won’t be a 1.21.9 given its been superseded by .10

[abstract coral]

how can i limit the amount of cores and threads on folia

[gusty pebble]

So they will just jump to .10 and dont even release .9 ?

[paper siren]

there is no reason to

[delicate ice]

Hello, i need some help. i am working on a plugin in intellij for folia/paper as an authentication system for terms of use but it doesn't recognize it and posts the following error even though i have folia set to true: [09:18:00 ERROR]: [DirectoryProviderSource] Error loading plugin: Could not load plugin 'PengunivAuth v1.0.0' as it is not marked as supporting Folia!
could anyone help me out? i have checked everywhere to see if i have the correct use cases for folia with player kicking etc. and even edited my build.gradle.kts thrice while doing this and i am at a total loss, could anyone help me out?

yes its enabled in plugin.yml

jvm 21

[scarlet ginkgo]

you dont have it set in the plugin.yml

atleast not properly

[delicate ice]

huh

[scarlet ginkgo]

can you send the plugin.yml here?

[delicate ice]

yeah hold on

i used intellij to create the paper preset and thought it would work

name: PengunivAuth
main: com.stormtools.penguniv_auth.Penguinunivauth
version: 1.0.0
api-version: "1.21"
author: stormtools
folia: true

commands:
agree:
description: Accept Penguin Universe TOU and be added to the accepted list
usage: /agree
permission: penguniv.auth.use

disagree:
description: Deny Penguin Universe TOU (will kick you)
usage: /disagree
permission: penguniv.auth.use

penguniv:
description: Admin commands for PengunivAuth
usage: /penguniv auth <list|deauth|reload>
permission: penguniv.auth.admin

permissions:
penguniv.auth.use:
default: true

penguniv.auth.admin:
description: Admin permission for PengunivAuth
default: op

[scarlet ginkgo]

i have no idea where you got folia: true from

it should be folia-supported: true

[delicate ice]

a friend told me to add that lol

ah

alright seems like in the console it doesn't get that error anymore

yep it works now, thanks so much for the help!

[delicate ice]

anyone know what i am doing wrong here?

[fierce knot]

message.txt by @delicate ice: https://pastes.dev/MLVwAuL8Yp

[dire pebble]

You have to use the correct schedulers like written in the README. Just use the Paper docs for their JDocs.

[delicate ice]

ah thanks

[wheat wigeon]

I started my first Folia server and what is this?

[timber igloo]

it took the game a bit too long to find a suitable spawn location, but iirc the watchdog just notifies you that it took to long and its not someting to be concerned of (but it hints at either a very odd world or perhaps poor performance)

[wheat wigeon]

but I have Intel core i5 12th and 24GB RAM

[scarlet ginkgo]

thats btw too little cores compared to the folia recommendations

[wheat wigeon]

and when will EssentialsX, LuckPerms, PlaceholderAPI, Vault, and other plugins be compatible with Folia? Because it's almost impossible to run a Folia SMP server like this

[languid plover]

Is Folia out for 1.21.9?

[wheat wigeon]

no right?

the newest Folia version is 1.21.8

[timber igloo]

all of the plugins you mentioned either have folia builds available, are trivial to fork, or atleast have 2 year-old PR's that add folia support

[wheat wigeon]

thanks

[timber igloo]

https://github.com/FreshSMP has a pretty good suite of folia-comptaible forks for popular plugins

[river tide]

Is there folia 1.21.9 or 1.21.10 test build

[uncut cradle]

Does anyone know why with folia hopper amount not work

It still tranfer 1 item per 20 tick should be 64

    ticks-per:
      hopper-transfer: 20
      hopper-check: 20
    hopper-amount: 64

[marsh zealot]

Hey there, short question, is there a way to force split regions into two or more regions. I am currently running a server with around 200 players and we have a bugged region which does not split up and loads up to 30k chunks and 10th of thousand of entities. If there is such a way, it would be awesome to learn it. If there isn't but if there is a way to fix it over the configs, that would be awesome as well.

Cheers

[livid crag]

If two players or some game mechanic has to interact, the region will merge. You will need to provide more information on your world size and how close players are together before calling it a bug.

[marsh zealot]

well the world as it is is about 300k to 300k and same in the negative. The region I am talking about is from around 3000 to 3000 and the same in the negative with around 40 to 50 players in that region.

[livid crag]

Are they too close?

Each one of them has to be like 1500 block away from any other players

[marsh zealot]

They are running around in groups up to 10 or 15 people I think, don't know in detail. But is there a way to fix or make it better with a higher powered CPU? We are currently running the server on 2x AMD EPYC 7282 with 16 Cores each.

That was the server we were provided by our partner

[livid crag]

There is no real way to fix it. It is intended if they are too close, region will merge.

[marsh zealot]

Then is there a better server setup? Like with velocity or so?

[livid crag]

What do you mean

Velocity is a proxy. It’s not a Minecraft server software

[marsh zealot]

Instead of Folia using Velocity and Purpur for example

[livid crag]

I am not sure if I understand you

[marsh zealot]

I was thinking of a way to setup multiple purpur instances and linking them together with Velocity. And the question is if that would be better performant than the current way we use Folia for

[livid crag]

I don’t think you understand what you really want.

The issue is your player being too close so I don’t see how having mutiple instance will help unless each instance has a world size smaller than a thousands block

With added complexity of linking worlds, share inventories, and ensure all your plugins support such setup.

[marsh zealot]

hm ok, thanks tho

[modest kestrel]

not much you can do

happened to us as well

we had around 25k rtp radius (with border 100k+)

and yet it still made one big region with 20k+ chunks

so yeah, even if it was 25k radius, the players were so close to each other, that it started merging and merging

[fossil hare]

Hello, I want to send a game event which scheduler should I use, it spams me warn that it can't be asynchronous

[viral stone]

I mean, if the event isn't async then you need to dispatch it sync

where that is is going to depend on the context of the event

[fossil hare]

finalBaseEntity.getWorld().sendGameEvent(player, GameEvent.BLOCK_DESTROY, finalBaseEntity.getLocation().toVector())

[viral stone]

I mean, you're sending it to a player

so, one would assume that you're in the context of that player

(or, that the player is in range of that block entity)

[fossil hare]

so regionScehduler or EntityScheduler?

[viral stone]

Yes

[scarlet ginkgo]

entity scheduler is safer for entity stuff

but the region one works too with a few edge cases which will crash the server afaik

[scarlet ginkgo]

because it follows the player entity on teleports so you run no risk of having incorrect data whereas if the player teleports away to another region the moment that you schedule something for that player, things will break

and throw

[timber igloo]

isnt that just going to tell you that that region scheduler is retired

or if you have already schedule the task, just calling the retired callback

[strong vector]

i'm observing big lag spikes caused by something on a folia server but seems like spark doesnt have only-ticks-over for folia. Is there an alternative tool to profile lag spikes?

big as in 40 second freeze

[somber fog]

what's up with this? anyone know what might be causing this error?

[dim merlin]

are you by any chance using the plugin Worlds or MoreFoWorld?

[somber fog]

MoreFoWorlds, yes

[dim merlin]

in that case you should ask their support

[somber fog]

they said it’s unrelated

[viral stone]

The thread stalled out writing to the disk

[finite hinge]

That's likely not from a plugin, seems like your disk is having trouble

[wild yarrow]

I have a problem with cats. I spawn a cat and put a leash on it. After a few minutes, I am back in the same spot as before, having flown up so high it disappeared. I go downstairs again and the cat has gone. This only happens with cats and not horses. The default paper configuration has no changes.

[somber fog]

it's an SSD

[opaque gust]

can someone help me decide if i should use folia or paper for my survival server?
i could get servers with a relatively high core count (16-24) for a fair price and alle my plugins are selfmade so its not a compatibility problem. players will probably be spreaded all over the map.

[livid crag]

Are your players all going to be anti social and play by themselves far away from another player at all times? (1500 block away)

[opaque gust]

There will probably be some players that build around spawn and some that build their base far away to prevent griefs. I expect that at least half of the online players are far away from spawn after a few days.

[vocal shuttle]

is this 1500 blocks a non-configurable limit
for example I run an SMP with 30-40 players on a decent machine (24 cores) those players are really redstone/farm intensive players so I always had to limit the sim distance and put some soft limits on entity counts (cpu usage is always in the 10% range)
players bases could be anything from 500 blocks to thousands of blocks apart

so essentially I have 2 questions

• if all the players are far enough to have separate regions anyways, is that a use case of Folia and I can pretty much remove all restrictions now?
• is it configurable to have regions start to be split at lower distances?

[livid crag]

1. Given you have powerful enough of hardware to support it and the player ain’t just outright crashing the region, yes.
2. Only by a small degree anything too low is non-negotiable

[viral stone]

I think that the configs let you bring it down to like 900 blocks or something, the issue is that it needs to be able to keep regions large enough to contain vanilla behavior (and not have a huge bunch of complexity for dealing with other things)

ultimatly, worse case folia performs a bit worse than paper, the big thing is trying to ensure that you even stand a chance to gain anything from it AND have the resources/dedication to do so, folia is much less supported on all sides with some level of expectation that part of that burden falls onto you

[vocal shuttle]

Thank you guys!

I will probably try and play around with it a bit then consider switching to it later

[livid temple]

i got a question: when do we get folia 1.21.10 support ?

[scarlet ginkgo]

https://fill-ui.papermc.io/projects/folia/version/1.21.6
is folia 1.21.6 really supported or is it a glitch

[charred bridge]

good morning guys. does folia support vaults? it sems that you cant open them when trying to

[acoustic cedar]

https://modrinth.com/plugin/vaultunlocked

[dim merlin]

vaults are blocks and they can be opened 😄
not vault as in plugin

[acoustic cedar]

my bad lmao

[dim merlin]

i thought your message was answered?
folia should not break anything regarding vaults so maybe the vault has already been opened or is on a cooldown or the key is the wrong one

[charred bridge]

I changed the server from folia to paper and now it works idk what the problem was

this was before i posted on the other server ^^

[wild yarrow]

Help me with cats on a leash tied to a fence disappear after 5 minutes if you move away from them

[maiden geode]

Is there any way to setup multiple worlds with folia and per world inventory?

[dim merlin]

multiple worlds yes but per world inventories are pretty much impossible on folia and quite pointless if you really need folia because at that point you also should have the resources to host multiple servers

[maiden geode]

I guess that’s more my question, if we have multiple servers what’s the best way to link on folia?

[livid crag]

With Velocity proxy

[tender escarp]

Are the people who work on folia the same people who work on paper or is it a completely separate group?

[inner swift]

Mostly one guy works on Folia, Spottedleaf. He's on the Paper team

[scarlet ginkgo]

^^

[finite hinge]

I don't know how that flag gets set or who has control over it

In general I'd say no, not even Paper 1.21.6 is still supported and with Folia it's probably even more important that you be on the latest version

Not that there is much support anyway, Folia is the kind of thing where you should know how to do stuff yourself

[strong nimbus]

When loading chunks on my server, the ping increases significantly. How can I resolve this?

[twin meteor]

Can I use folia with 8-10 ryzen 9 7950x3d cores? For a smp or is it not enough?

[livid crag]

Are your player always play alone and always gonna be 1500 blocks away from each other? @twin meteor

[lofty magnet]

that depends on how many regions you intend to have

[twin meteor]

We are like 40-60 Players who are spread across the world

[livid crag]

Are they going to be 1500 block away?

From each other?

[twin meteor]

Some are 500 blcoks away some are maybe 1500 away

[livid crag]

You are better off just using Paper

[twin meteor]

I am using paper but we have tps problems.. I dont know how to fix that

[livid crag]

Then post your spark report in #paper-help

Folia won’t solve your problem if your player still group up together. In fact, it is likely going to make your issue worse

[livid crag]

Make a spark report during peak player count and post it in #paper-help so we can take a look

[twin meteor]

Okay I did

[livid crag]

Yeah I saw it. Several issues on that report and looking at the chunk loaded I can get a rough idea of how close your players are, Folia will not work for you and you should reach out to Purpur for help. You have crazy memory issue there.

[wary shale]

Hi I have a question about folia. I'm making a plugin with need for temporary worlds (like dungeon instancing). I'm curious if folia would help in that regard. Docs are focused on regions. Does dimensions also become multithreaded, or maybe they already are?

[dim merlin]

you are better of using paper for that
not only because of the api limitations of folia but also because of no upsides

[wary shale]

Are you sure? I would definetly benefit from different tick loops since I'm planning on running a lot of worlds at the same time with different player sets

[dim merlin]

you probably wont have a big enough player spread to gain anything

[wary shale]

yeah each dimension would be small, totally not enough for regionsizing to do it's magic

well I guess I'll go with paper then ty

[timber igloo]

well wouldnt you have the advantage of each world being its own tick thread

if we disregard the world-api problems, ticking each world can be a performance gain very quickly

[inner swift]

There seems to be a misunderstanding going on here, individual worlds will indeed have separate tick threads. The "spread" in your case is the separation between worlds

That said, multiple servers connected with Velocity is an option for you, despite the overhead of running multiple JVMs you get a more supported ecosystem to work with

[drifting mango]

Hi, is there a fork of Folia or Paper that would allow me to launch my server with mods and plugins under Forge 1.20.1, please?

[inner swift]

Probably, but we do not recommend or support any of them. They are very likely to break in various ways

[finite hinge]

I would guess no, actually, but there is probably someone that crazy

Paper+Fabric/NeoForge is known to break a bunch of mods and a bunch of plugins, I think Folia+Fabric/NeoForge would break every single mod

[warm crown]

Aprox ETA for 1.21.10?

[opal needle]

how to setup flag optimize folia for ryzen 9 ram 64

[oblique dragon]

just use zgc

[solar haven]

Hello, I'm having an issue on a folia server where my items in my chunkloaded storage system despawn. Previously on Purpur this storage worked but now the items don't seem to make it to the end/are disappearing. Does anyone know how to fix this?

[solar haven]

Mainly having issues with items in water streams being chunkloaded correctly

[livid crag]

Weird that that’s causing an issue. Can you verify that you have not change any config while switching over?

Additionally, do you have a player in the end dimension?

[solar haven]

No players in the end dimension, I will have to check with the server admin about config files changing

Has this been an issue for anyone else? Mainly chunkloading areas with item entities moving around in water streams

[exotic canopy]

Whats the min amount of blocks for players to be apart from each other to be in different regions?

[livid crag]

1500 block ish

[exotic canopy]

ty

[finite hinge]

900?

[exotic canopy]

what now

[finite hinge]

Pretty sure it's like 700-900

[exotic canopy]

I have in my paper profiler also "regions" would that be the equivilant?

[knotty egret]

what is wrong?

[fierce knot]

message.txt by @knotty egret: https://pastes.dev/JD5h61oN8v

[inner swift]

No, Minecraft regions are fixed, Folia regions are related to the player's locations

[finite hinge]

Folia regions are like isolated islands of chunks. If two of them come in contact they merge. Each region is basically its own Paper server.

If they were MC regions they'd all just merge together since they're touching and you'd just get a slower version of Paper 😄

[exotic canopy]

https://spark.lucko.me/GdMqeBfMwk
Okay i get it i think, I currently tend to switching to folia if 1.21.10 is released but idk if it would help much, maybe you can take a look

[inner swift]

It'll depend on how spread out your players are

[exotic canopy]

Its basically an SMP where you have an spawn elytra with a boost and everyone spreads out, yes some cluster but this isnt really a problem ig

[inner swift]

Fair

[exotic canopy]

How do i messure how far they are spread out

[finite hinge]

Small clusters are fine so long as they're spread out enough from others

You run Folia and see how many regions you end up with 😛

[livid crag]

Your issue is you have old and slow hardware

Folia won’t help you

[finite hinge]

There is no way to calculate this stuff ahead of time

[inner swift]

If two players are less than ~1000 blocks away from each other, they will be in the same region

[finite hinge]

4 cores is probably not enough, I dunno if that's even enough for a Paper server under heavy load

[exotic canopy]

Based on tps ig not

[livid crag]

Judging by your chunk loaded, your players ain’t far enough either

[inner swift]

And if players come close and then spread a bit, the regions will resist to split, so distance isn't really the other criteria, there's other factors like redstone loading the chunks

[finite hinge]

The recommendation for Folia is basically a Ryzen 7950X or 9950X

Or some of the high performance Xeons and EPYCs

[exotic canopy]

Okay

[knotty egret]

this happened when start the server (Bump)

[exotic canopy]

So it still would make sense to improve hardware for the current paper setup?

[finite hinge]

Do you have a custom worldgen datapack? Some of them end up trying to load so much of the world at once with large structures that they crash Folia

[exotic canopy]

But folia wont decrease perfomance, right?

[livid crag]

Getting a hardware upgrade is the most direct way to improve your server rn yes.

[inner swift]

It could

[finite hinge]

Folia without regions or the threads to run them is a slower Paper

[livid crag]

It will if your server is already struggling. There is extra overhead.

[knotty egret]

Nope, i have default startup.

[finite hinge]

¯_(ツ)_/¯

Try without plugins

[inner swift]

You have 4C/8T, it's really easy to starve your hardware with tick threads if you misconfigure it, and if your players are too close you will also be slightly slower than Paper

Where are you renting your hardware?

[exotic canopy]

Hetzner

[knotty egret]

Dude, nothing is installed, only Folia.

[inner swift]

Not sure how much you're paying right now, but something like an EX44 (39 eur/mo) will be a dramatic upgrade

[exotic canopy]

We pay 35€ currently

[livid crag]

You can defo do better with that budget

[exotic canopy]

What would you recommend

[knotty egret]

Could this be related to the commit 59156c2 in Folia? Should I try an older version? (https://github.com/PaperMC/Folia/commit/59156c2)

[inner swift]

If you need to stay strictly under 35, I couldn't find anything in Hetzner

I'd just go with the EX44

[exotic canopy]

No not really but whats in that price range

[inner swift]

The EX44

[exotic canopy]

Okay thanks

With help of chatgpt i calculated the regions of our players, with 900 blocks spread we would be at 18 regions, would that be okay for 41 players?

[modest kestrel]

with 900 blocks spread

that will give you one big region

[exotic canopy]

No like if one region is 900 blocks big it would be 18 regions

[modest kestrel]

whats the map size for your 41 players

from 0,0

[exotic canopy]

nothing

But the players decide on how much they spread out

[modest kestrel]

if 2 players are ~1500 blocks close to each other, the regions will merge

the regions have a tendency to merge more frequently than split

so if you have
Player <900 blocks> Player <900 blocks> Player <900 blocks> Player

it will merge all the regions into a big one region

[exotic canopy]

At which point wont that happen?

1500?

[modest kestrel]

1500 seems to be the tipping point, but i cant say accurately

we had 20k rtp distance from 0,0

and it made one big fat region

from -15k to 15k...

[inner swift]

You should have a large buffer

[modest kestrel]

just make sure there is enough distance

[inner swift]

If you try to stay near the minimum, players will simply move a bit, get within the radius of another players, and done, in 5 minutes you're back to one region

[exotic canopy]

https://pastebin.com/RyA2WABB
Thats like the code chatgpt gave me and with 1500 it would still be 15 regions

[modest kestrel]

you dont understand

there is no such thing as "region size"

region can be infinitely big

regions depend on player distances

[exotic canopy]

Yes

But with players are more than 1500 blocks apart they wont be in the same region right?

[modest kestrel]

they can be...

thats the thing

[inner swift]

This code is incorrect

[exotic canopy]

Oh

I love gpt

[fair merlin]

Generally they won't be, but if they get too close those regions could merge.

[inner swift]

In general, don't try to ask Minecraft or server hosting questions to GPT (trust me, it has very little knowledge in that domain)

[exotic canopy]

I will just try out

And see if folia will help

[finite hinge]

Regions merge eagerly and split lazily

So if two player have their regions brush against each other unless they get significant extra distance from each other afterward they're just going to be in a single region

And so on, cascading across the whole server

That's why unless you have some strict separation of players (like skyblock) it's impossible to say how many regions you'll end up with

[exotic canopy]

Okay one last question at which count of regions would folia be more performant?

[finite hinge]

It can be more performant even with just two regions

Depends on your situation

Each region has some overhead vs a Paper server but they also share some resources that make things sometimes more efficient and sometimes slower

[exotic canopy]

Ig if one player is in one region and 40 players in the other one it wont help

[finite hinge]

Well that one player will be having a great time 😄

[exotic canopy]

So for them it would be 20tps?

[finite hinge]

Yeah

That's kind of what I mean, some people want Folia just to isolate expensive farms into a region and let it run like crap while the rest of the server is fine

Only need two regions for that

Pretty much always the more regions you get the better you are though

[inner swift]

Do note that if you have weak hardware (an i7-7700 is pretty weak), a few regions can tank the entire server's TPS

Depending on the tick thread count, especially

[finite hinge]

Right, on an i7-7700 Folia would normally only have one region tick thread so more regions doesn't do anything

[exotic canopy]

Is the vanilla likeness like on paper? Will every farm work the same way as on paper?

[finite hinge]

If you override that to spawn more region tick threads you risk overloading the entire CPU and making everything terrible

No, Folia is even less vanilla-compatible

[exotic canopy]

Yeah after that we would upgrade min to the 39€ cpu

[finite hinge]

I don't think you'd notice the differences though unless you were doing some wacky things

Like making a computer in MC or something

[exotic canopy]

So tnt dupers and raid farms would work?

[finite hinge]

Well, and it doesn't support datapack functions or command blocks but that's not player stuff

[inner swift]

The i5 13500 isn't that great for Folia either, it has E cores that will make the regions it ends up in pretty slow

[finite hinge]

Those should work the same as they do on Paper

[inner swift]

The i5 13500 is reasonably good for Paper for the price, though, because the P cores are good

[exotic canopy]

https://www.hetzner.com/dedicated-rootserver/matrix-ex/
Would the EX44 be better?

[inner swift]

Note that you'll need to replace plugins with their Folia-compatible counterparts (if they exist)

The EX44 has the i5 13500

[finite hinge]

Oh yeah, none of your plugins will work 😛

They need to be made specifically for Folia

[exotic canopy]

We only have our custom made plugin which not much functionality

[finite hinge]

Folia plugins work on Paper so some already support both but most do not

[exotic canopy]

Yeah we know that but we dont really have much code, just spawn, claims and simple stuff that we would fix

[exotic canopy]

What would be a buget folia cpu?

[inner swift]

The 5950x

https://www.hetzner.com/managed-server/ma130/

[exotic canopy]

Thats pretty expensive, would that be one of the best?

Or isnt there really any limit?

[inner swift]

That's the recommended minimum

[exotic canopy]

Okay

Thanks for your time

I appreciate the help

I think we will stick to paper for the time, maybe increase in hardware will allready make the difference

[knotty egret]

bump

[quaint panther]

try the EX63

[tepid pollen]

Whats like a good mid tier cpu for folia?

[austere pier]

Hi im a paper user wondering about Folia, my server has multiverse and im wondering with Folia run it better then paper since its multicore supportive

also will Folia support multi cpu?

i own my servers so im thinking of switching thats why i ask sorry its its alot at once

[viral stone]

Folia doesn't support multiverse or dynamic world un/loading in general

Folia doesn't cater towards NUMA, etc, so multiple CPU based setups will have a small perf hit due to the cross CPU stuff

[tepid pollen]

Is a AMD Ryzen™ 9 7950X3D okay?

[viral stone]

Sure?

[tepid pollen]

So you can't use multiverse so you just load your worls on startup in your plugin?

[modest kestrel]

https://modrinth.com/plugin/worlds-1

this one does support loading & unloading

[tepid pollen]

but i could just load it in my plugin right?
or is this not possible because folia needs other world setup?

[modest kestrel]

folia generally does not support world loading/unloading

on startup its fine

but unloading can be tricky

[tepid pollen]

why can unloading be tricky just stop the server xD

[modest kestrel]

unloading as in disabling a certain world dynamically

imagine you create a temporary world using /world create (abc)

then if you want to delete the world, it can become very tricky

there are plugins, like the one i mentioned, which use certain workarounds

but again, generally its not "safe"

[tepid pollen]

oh okay i just have like word,nether,end,spawn,afk thats all i dont unload normally or delete any of these worlds

[modest kestrel]

in that case you can either switch from multiverse to MoreFoWorld (https://modrinth.com/plugin/morefoworld) or Worlds (https://modrinth.com/plugin/worlds-1), both of them support Folia, but Worlds has more features

[tepid pollen]

Thanks mutch! ^^

[tight kindle]

there a fork that have world loading and unloading

[hexed rapids]

grid-exponent

[modest kestrel]

canvas I believe

[tight kindle]

yes

[fair merlin]

We strongly advise against using forks that have things bolted on to get stuff working, FWIW.

And you obviously won't get any support here for forks.

[real tendon]

im curious wym by "bolted on" tbh, like generally wondering what that means lol

or ig the full sentence

[finite hinge]

I dunno about that one but a lot of Folia forks are "works for me" things that either only work most of the time or only work when you use it a certain way

There are things Folia blocks/disables that would be safe but only if you use it in a limited way or at a specific time, people make forks to enable those again for their use which fits

[real tendon]

oh yea fs

[finite hinge]

Again, no idea about that one in particular, it at least claims to solve things more generally, I haven't looked

And wouldn't be qualified to say anyway, I only know how Folia works at an abstract level

[real tendon]

i(developer of Canvas) know how folia works and try and abide by all such rules to try and make sure its up to SpottedLeafs standards

i do plan on a "PR party" to Folia once 1.21.10 comes around

[finite hinge]

Did you make PRs? Oh

[real tendon]

unload/load API was also made to abide by his guidlines in a PR to Folia

that one PR for load/unload that was rejected

[real tendon]

nah, but planning on it once updating is done

i do believe some features, at least Folia crash fixes, should be ported from Canvas -> Folia

[tight kindle]

yep i know that

[tight kindle]

God dueris

[quick violet]

Hi! I have a conceptual question:
If the goal is to increase the number of players that can play at once, given that the server has limited borders (about 20k x 20k), and almost no natural mob spawning except certain areas, is it worth switching to Folia? Theoretically would there actually be any improvement in performance or would the "extra cost" of Folia outweigh it?

[fair merlin]

I don't really want to get into this sort of thing here in help channels.

In short: we don't really want people recommending forks to people and we definitely don't want fork developers coming into help channels to shill their forks.

[real tendon]

oh yea ofc, i agree completely

[finite hinge]

Excited to see those PRs, it'd be nice to get Folia more functional

[mortal burrow]

folia 1.21.10 when?

[scarlet ginkgo]

this also applies to folia

[storm basalt]

hi how can i create a world in folia because when i trying to use worldcreator i have an error

java.lang.UnsupportedOperationException: null
at org.bukkit.craftbukkit.CraftServer.createWorld(CraftServer.java:1265) ~[folia-1.21.8.jar:1.21.8-6-612d9bd]
at org.bukkit.Bukkit.createWorld(Bukkit.java:841) ~[folia-api-1.21.8-R0.1-SNAPSHOT.jar:?]
at avaris.jar/pl.mythica.avariscore.mechanics.sectors.SectorsManager.lambda$generateSectors$1(SectorsManager.java:62) ~[avaris.jar:?]
at avaris.jar/pl.mythica.avariscore.AvarisCore.lib.folialib.impl.FoliaImplementation.lambda$runNextTick$0(FoliaImplementation.java:96) ~[avaris.jar:?]
at io.papermc.paper.threadedregions.scheduler.FoliaGlobalRegionScheduler$GlobalScheduledTask.run(FoliaGlobalRegionScheduler.java:179) ~[folia-1.21.8.jar:?]
at io.papermc.paper.threadedregions.scheduler.FoliaGlobalRegionScheduler.tick(FoliaGlobalRegionScheduler.java:37) ~[folia-1.21.8.jar:?]
at io.papermc.paper.threadedregions.RegionizedServer.globalTick(RegionizedServer.java:307) ~[folia-1.21.8.jar:1.21.8-6-612d9bd]
at io.papermc.paper.threadedregions.RegionizedServer$GlobalTickTickHandle.tickRegion(RegionizedServer.java:161) ~[folia-1.21.8.jar:1.21.8-6-612d9bd]
at io.papermc.paper.threadedregions.TickRegionScheduler$RegionScheduleHandle.runTick(TickRegionScheduler.java:418) ~[folia-1.21.8.jar:1.21.8-6-612d9bd]
at ca.spottedleaf.concurrentutil.scheduler.SchedulerThreadPool$TickThreadRunner.run(SchedulerThreadPool.java:546) ~[concurrentutil-0.0.3.jar:?]
at java.base/java.lang.Thread.run(Thread.java:1583) ~[?:?]```

[wet arch]

the world loading/unloading API isn't implemented on folia

https://github.com/PaperMC/Folia?tab=readme-ov-file#current-broken-api

[magic orchid]

hello, I would like to use the biome temperature at a given block to determine if i cancel a BlockGrowEvent or not.
Is that save to do in Folia out of the box or do I need to do some special scheduling?
All I want the event handler to do is basicaly this (pseudocode):
if (event.getBlock().getWorld().getTemperature(blockX, blockY, blockZ) > 1.5) event.setCanceled(true);

[finite hinge]

In the grow event you're in the right region for the block so you can just read it like you would normally

The folia stuff only matters if you want to access something outside of the data/location provided in the event

[magic orchid]

is there a difference between Block.getTermperature() or the world.getTermperature() ?

[finite hinge]

Block is basically just a Location, it doesn't store any of that data

So there shouldn't be

[magic orchid]

ok then chatgpt spit out some garbage to me lol

it said the block type affects the temperature (as in ice is colder than magma)

[finite hinge]

I mean, there is a chance someone massaged the data in the Block method so it has a different range/type but it'd be ready from the world to begin with

And I don't think that happens much if at all

[magic orchid]

so you think just using Block.getTermperature() for my use case is fine?

[finite hinge]

Huh, I was going to say the temperature is just a biome and height thing but now I wonder if they do have anything special for ice and lava 😛

Yeah, that should be fine

[magic orchid]

ok, ill try that thanks

[terse zephyr]

when folia support 1.21.10?

[copper mantle]

How much activity would it take on an anarchy server to fill a 300GB storage limitation

[fair merlin]

Same as Paper

There’s a few world size calculators out there.

[inner swift]

I'd recommend estimating this with https://onlinemo.de/world and some math (i.e. use the total chunk count instead of the radius)

[unborn escarp]

  auto-config-send-distance: true
  player-max-concurrent-chunk-generates: 64
  player-max-concurrent-chunk-loads: 64
chunk-loading-basic:
  player-max-chunk-generate-rate: -1.0
  player-max-chunk-load-rate: -1.0
  player-max-chunk-send-rate: -1.0
chunk-system:
  gen-parallelism: 'true'
  io-threads: 8
  worker-threads: 8```

are these good values im having a tough time figuring this out

im trying to have 100 to 300 players on a 32 core server ive allocated 24 cores to the threaded regions and the rest i have for netty and the chunk system but im having chunk loading issues at high player counts and i keep messing with these settings trying to figure out whats best without knowing what they even do lol

previously i had it like this:

  auto-config-send-distance: true
  player-max-concurrent-chunk-generates: 64
  player-max-concurrent-chunk-loads: 64
chunk-loading-basic:
  player-max-chunk-generate-rate: -1.0
  player-max-chunk-load-rate: 2000
  player-max-chunk-send-rate: 2000
chunk-system:
  gen-parallelism: 'true'
  io-threads: 8
  worker-threads: 16```

[finite hinge]

There is no best guess for chunk system workers if not pre-generated, as on the test server we ran we gave 16 threads but chunk generation was still slow at ~300 players.

From the README

300 players generating chunks is just a lot of chunks and chunk generation is slow

You could lower your view-distance

[unborn escarp]

ok so chunk loading is always gonna be slow like i put 300 bots on with spawn radius at 500,000 to test and i couldnt load any chunks even old ones on my account millions of blocks out

right now its 8

[inner swift]

How did you spread them? Were they all flying?

[unborn escarp]

they were just sitting in the same spot and i changed the random spawn radius to 500,000 blocks

their render distance was 6

[inner swift]

they were just sitting in the same spot and i changed the random spawn radius to 500,000 blocks
And then killed them all so they'd respawn all at once?

[unborn escarp]

nah just let them afk die and auto respawn

[inner swift]

Ah, I see. I was trying to rule out whether you were doing /spreadplayers or spawning them all at once, which would overwhelm the chunk system

[unborn escarp]

i was joining them in mass thats prolly it

[inner swift]

Okay, yeah, that could have done it

[jade dagger]

Looool

Bro should have not said that

[viral stone]

wat

[jade dagger]

I'm not sure if you were referring to donutsmp, but it's the second biggest server now 😂

If not, mb.

[viral stone]

No

their server is 100% irrelevant to that discussion

[jade dagger]

Alright mb

[stone tundra]

hi, any know guide for create plugin with Folia ?

[inner swift]

Not specifically, but

[inner swift]

https://docs.papermc.io/paper/dev/folia-support/

These will help

[stone tundra]

Does that mean I can use the Paper Spigot API and it already includes information about Folia?

I was literally trying to use Folia’s API, but I couldn’t find any relevant information—there aren’t any API repositories or anything like that. I want to create a game mode using Folia as the base.

[inner swift]

The underlying API is mostly the same, minus some that Folia doesn't support (e.g. Bukkit scheduler, world creation...)

Paper includes all the API you need for a Folia plugin

[stone tundra]

including scheduler folia ?

[viral stone]

Paper implements all the methods you'd need to write a folia plugin, such as the region schedulers, etc

[stone tundra]

ohh okey

perfect

[viral stone]

There is no real documentation over the dev aspects of the project, there generally comes a level of expected knowledge here

[stone tundra]

What is the latest version of the Folia server and the Paper Spigot API that includes Folia?

[viral stone]

folia supports .8

paper has .10 beta builds (but, are generally stable)

[stone tundra]

okey thank you

[main stump]

are there any alternatives to worldguard and worldedit for folia

[dim merlin]

there are forks of both plugins supporting folia

https://github.com/Euphillya/WorldEdit-Folia
https://github.com/Euphillya/WorldGuard-Folia

[sweet thunder]

So I am fairly new to Folia and I was just wondering how the teleport event works. If the player uses for example an enderpearl and teleports from one region into another. From which Region is the teleport event called? Is it called at all? Is it possible in folia to detect teleports and the from/to location?

[viral stone]

it doesn't fire, because that question you first asked is a fun one

[sweet thunder]

Yeah I understand that ^^ So there is no way at all to check from and to location when the player moves / teleports?

[timber igloo]

ender pearls in particular fire a ProjectileHitEvent. if you listen to that and set the ender pearl owner to null if you dont want to proceed with the teleport, it works

I think someone suggested a pre/post teleport event in here once, i think that'd work

or forbidden fork 🙂

[spark night]

How does folia work, is everything multi threaded or like chunks or areas how does it work

[viral coral]

check the first 3 links

[spark night]

Can i ask a question without looking it up myself… how big are the regions or is it customizable

[viral coral]

there is no specific region size

the regionising logic is well documented and would again suggest reading through that before asking questions about how it works

[spark night]

yeah i will

[viral stone]

assuming linux, you would want to check your hardware logs

folia doesn't really work at the level to make a disk fail

[finite hinge]

Yeah that's going to be a kernel or hardware issue

The kernel flips it in to read only mode whenever it runs into a filesystem or hardware problem

[viral stone]

I mean, a FS tripping into RO will basically always show in dmesg

I've never heard of it not doing so

Unless you have some other weird issue where it's not flipping RO but is just having a more generic IO error

[finite hinge]

If nothing else it'll log flipping it to RO, it should have what caused it above that

[viral stone]

(You are looking at dmesg?)

[finite hinge]

Reboot would clear dmesg so yeah

I would just buy a new drive

Unless you have some unusual setup it's 99% going to be the motherboard or (more likely) the drive

If you had some RAID setup or a niche filesystem or something it might be a kernel bug but otherwise...

If it's a HDD I suppose it could also be the power supply but that's probably the least likely

Standard Debian install with ext4 on an nvme drive it's almost certainly the drive

[spark night]

Invest in expensive drives

[fair merlin]

@winged palm This isn’t really the server for that. Try something like HelpChat.

[winged palm]

i know this isnt the server for that thats why im asking about it. Also thanks idk what helpchat is. Is it just a server?

[fair merlin]

It’s linked in #community-guilds yes

[winged palm]

thanks mate

[dim dome]

hey, does folia tick skip?

[hexed ice]

no

[dim dome]

okay, is there any other changes to how redstone works?

[winged palm]

How can i get vanilla like experience with redstone?

3 engines?

i haven't gotten my hands dirty with paper/folia yet

i do plan on using folia

but i can use folia with fabric? is that what im understanding?

looks like engine-mode is just for anti cheat?

my only concern is having a almost vanilla like experience with redstone in folia

thats all

[inner swift]

I would consider Paper/Vanilla redstone near vanilla (to the point we have issues getting people to file reproducible reports of issues)

[winged palm]

i heard you can disable the anti duping or whatever and then u get the true vanilla experience

so i just make all of these true

and bam vanilla

[wet arch]

https://docs.papermc.io/paper/vanilla/

[winged palm]

thanks

[dim dome]

hey, i want to switch from folia to vanilla, but switching the jar doesnt work for some reason.

[dim dome]

there is no docs on folia

[inner swift]

You can use the steps for Paper -> Vanilla

[dim dome]

they dont work

i shut server down. switched jar and booted it back up

idk why it still boots with folia

[inner swift]

What, exactly, isn't working? Logs?

[dim dome]

it just starts back with folia

basicall this is what i did

minecraft_server.jar was folia, server.jar is vanilla. i deleted folia, then renamed vanilla .jar

[inner swift]

Make sure your start.sh was changed to point to the vanilla jar rather than the Folia one

[dim dome]

they both have the same name and the folia one is deleted completely

the name didnt change

[inner swift]

Well, a Folia jar is being ran somehow, if it's being run at all that means you still have a Folia jar downloaded. What runs is determined by the file name in the startup script

I'd just triple check this, delete every server jar and download the vanilla one

[dim dome]

oh my god im so dumb sorry for wasting your time

[inner swift]

No worries lol

[dim dome]

it used the jar from the other folder

[winged palm]

is there something like skript but for folia? I really need to be able to load/unload plugins or whatever on the fly

[dim merlin]

you really dont need that
but regardless i doubt there is a folia version of skript

[winged palm]

I dont want to really use skript itself, but i do want to use a scripting language

lol

I found this https://gitlab.com/spidermodders/openjs

[dim merlin]

i dont think it is a good idea to base your code on AI

Codex CLI… mostly correct code.

[winged palm]

dont mind about the Affero GPL, as for the maintaining, I don't mind making some prs

[dim merlin]

skript is basically just plain english?
also they dont come across as "so much a beginner"

[winged palm]

My objective isnt to use skript, my objective is to use something along the lines of skript that lets me load,unload and/or reload scripts/plugins while the server is up.

I'm not a fan of skript, I'm also not a huge fan of java. I rather use a actual scripting language since it makes sense for my usecase

I want to run a beta, and I dont want to have to always restart the server specially when there are players on

[dim merlin]

folia restarts in less then a second for me even with a bunch of worlds
i dont get the point of reloading anything during runtime

[winged palm]

.

[paper siren]

You‘ll always run into the problem that your scripting language needs to expose scheduling in some form

[dim merlin]

dont work on prod directly i guess

[winged palm]

testing in prod is the way

[dim merlin]

okay

[winged palm]

:p

nah but on a real note, there are some balancing stuff or maybe bugs that would be introduced and I'd like to correct them on the fly

[dim merlin]

idk skill issue i guess 😄

[winged palm]

dont think this would be a big problem

[dim merlin]

best solution in my opinion to such a problem is having a fallback system
most servers just have a lobby to send the players to when restarting a sub
some even go the extra mile and spin up a mirror server where players are sent to so there is basically no interruption

[winged palm]

Hmm

Good idea, I'm gonna do more research

[dim merlin]

it is
but it is a better solution than hot reloading

[winged palm]

i dont know why hot reloading is an issue

[paper siren]

Given the design of many scripting languages, it might be

[winged palm]

the point is you make your own engine to handle that

https://gitlab.com/spidermodders/openjs/-/tree/main/src/main/java/coolcostupit/openjs/foliascheduler?ref_type=heads

i think this guy did a good job

Hot reloading seems to be annoying/hard in java
I dont like java

A scripting language just makes sense

[little sable]

A "script" is often an extra layer, so at some point, it executes in Java. So no, it's even illogical

[winged palm]

So why use JS in a browser if it will just turn into c++, might as well just write c++

[paper siren]

But how do you ensure thread safety of a js collection that isn’t meant to be used from multiple threads?

[winged palm]

Not sure, but the project i linked earlier seems to partly? solve that issue. I'd have to look into it more

[little sable]

Seriously, at this point, why don't we just develop directly in "assembler"?

[winged palm]

rewrite it in rust even

[paper siren]

Groovy might be the best choice lol

[winged palm]

I've worked on hyperion, we're pretty close

we havent dont much last few months but we have hot reloading through bevy

[winged palm]

Haven't heard of that let me check it out

[winged palm]

I spoke to my lawyer, the plugins don't have to be public. Any modifications to the engine itself has to be publicly available.

[polar scarab]

Hi, could folia run on an ARM64 CPU?

[inner swift]

Well, it's going to start up as long as Java is supported by the platform, ARM is

Though performance may be an issue

[polar scarab]

k

[paper siren]

It fully depends on the ARM chip, but if it has many cores, it should be fine for folia

[opaque gust]

hi, i am considering using Folia for my next server project. i plan to use a vps with 16threads (qmd epyc zen 3 server with 4.3ghz boost) and 96gb ram. does someone know how many players this setup would be able to handle in a situation where thenplayers are spreaded over the map.

[winged palm]

the repo says ~300 people per region

and it recommends 16 cores not threads

[fair merlin]

Which repo is this? We would not recommend 300 people per region.

[winged palm]

oh i must've missread let me check

yeah I missread woops

[fair merlin]

There's no good math for this - just like Paper. It depends on the server, what people are doing, etc.

We don't generally recommend using a VPS and 16 threads is going to be low for what it sounds like you want to do. You have a bunch of RAM but the rest of the system seems not ideal.

Folia is really for leveraging higher end hardware, it's not really a great solution for cramming more players onto slower setups. So the hardware tends to cost a lot.

[winged palm]

so how many players can i have in lets say, skyblock with a 9950x3d

[fair merlin]

Again, there's no math for "this is my CPU, how many players can I have?"

Same with Paper. It depends on a ton of factors. What the players are doing, what plugins you have, etc etc etc

[winged palm]

yeah makes sense, but lets say a standard skyblock, farming, spawners large islands (5k size) per team

just a ballpark number

[fair merlin]

There really isn't a ballpark number.

[winged palm]

Alright

[fair merlin]

And not every 9950X3D system is created equal.

It could be 10 players or it could be a few hundred. It's really really hard to speculate.

If you have one plugin that's poorly made it can completely limit the entire server.

[winged palm]

So how is a server like 2b2t able to handle a thousand players?

[fair merlin]

Grabbing a bunch of off the shelf stuff and bolting it together puts you in a place where you can have a lot of bottlenecks.

Big servers like that are using a lot of custom stuff, they're spending a lot of time finding the best way to speed things up, and they usually have custom forks of Paper/Folia where they're pulling stuff out that they don't need.

You can't just walk in off the street, rent a server, slap a stock install of Folia on it, download a bunch of "these are Skyblock" plugins, and expect to be able to handle 500 players.

[winged palm]

Wasn't what i was expecting. Doing everything custom

[fair merlin]

The reality is that if you have no playerbase right now, it's going to take a long time to build up to that many players anyway. In that process you're going to learn what works for your setup and how many folks you can handle.

Most server start small and grow organically from there.

[winged palm]

I'm in the opposite state and in a weird/awkward position

[opaque gust]

no not really. if i find out that my server software choice is limiting me, it will be a hard time adapting my plugins to another one. Also i expect there to be a player peak around launch and would like to be able to handle upwards of 200 players on one single map.
That is also the reason why i explicitly mentioned that i would like to know ho much players Folia would be able to handle without any plugins installed that could be a potential bottleneck because if that happens i can simply improve the performance of the plugins.

[fair merlin]

Folia can handle more players on a given server instance than any other Minecraft software out there.

Anything else would be a fork of Folia that has a lot of stuff yanked out of it and may or may not be unsafe. In this case your limiting factors are going to be hardware and configuration. You can look around for other larger servers to get an idea of how many players they're able to support but they're using dedicated resources, not a VPS.

So there are a lot of factors.

[opaque gust]

i am considering getting a Dedicated i5 13500 (14C/20T) or R9 3900X (12C/24T) with 64GB or 128GB RAM since they can be had for about 40-50€/Month. would that be a noticable improvement? i just want to get a estimate on Folia would work without plugins from someone who knows more than me, it doesnt have to be accurate or smth.

[winged palm]

i find that the upgrade from ddr4 to ddr5 is a big upgrade as well

[opaque gust]

what i want to say is that I dont know any reliable source of information if i should use Paper or Folia for my Survival Server (assuming there are no potential plugin bottlenecks) to get the most players on one map while beeing spreaded out. Everything that i know at this point is that Chatgpt recommended me to use FOlia and estimated that the server could comfortably accomodate 100 Players.

[livid crag]

First of all, don’t listen to ChatGPT

[fair merlin]

Whether to use Folia vs Paper is dependent on hardware requirements and player distance from each other.

[fair merlin]

If you do not currently have 100 players already, start with a smaller Paper server and grow it until you start to exceed your hardware / server setup.

If you're already running with 100 players, what are the limitations of your current setup?

You can run 100 players on Folia under the right circumstances but you aren't going to do that with a $40 server setup.

Folia will run more players but it's hardware hungry, so you're looking at a dedicated server that's going to cost you most likely more than $100.

The folks running big numbers on Folia are spending hundreds (thousands?) per month on their hardware.

Also, yeah, don't listen to ChatGPT.

[winged palm]

its ok for searching/research

[livid crag]

It is not unless you read source

99% of people don’t

[fair merlin]

It gets a lot of Minecraft/Paper/Folia stuff wrong.

[livid crag]

Especially Minecraft as LLM operate on probability and Minecraft has 10+ year of “information” and only the latest 1 year would still be consider current.

Things like asking it about ram usage, it will almost always get it wrong

[finite hinge]

Someone in here had like 500 players on a skyblock and I think used a CPU like that but it'll vary depending on your setup

You might end up only running well with 50-100, depends on what you let players do

[fair merlin]

And that server was a dedicated box, not a VPS

[meager sleet]

What about Mobs / Entities? If you are running a Survival Server with 50+ players arent you required to lower mob spawn rates intensely?

[winged palm]

Im struggling to understand how a server is brought down to it's knees trying to run with a couple hundred players or atleast you guys are making it out to sound like that.

[little sable]

To keep it simple, let’s use a company as an example.

Imagine you’re a manager supervising 100 employees. You have to check what each employee is doing, and every 50 milliseconds you must deliver a report to your boss. If your employees have little to do—like casually exploring a world—you can review things quickly. But as your company grows, your employees’ tasks increase, your workload grows too, and you may fall behind on your reports. In other words, you start to “lag.”

Now, with Folia’s regionalization system, you’re no longer the only manager. Instead, you have multiple managers, each responsible for their own division (1 region = 1 division). Reports get done faster because each manager handles fewer employees—assuming, of course, everyone isn’t crowded into the same division.

I tried to simplify it by using an example from everyday life.

[winged palm]

brother im a systems engineer 💀 I understand whats happening. But I dont understand how the performance is such a bottleneck across multiple frameworks

[little sable]

I just explained it, you have 50 milliseconds to complete all the tasks, otherwise your TPS (ticks per second) will start to drop.
So, the more load there is during those 50 milliseconds (plugins, entities, players, etc.), the slower the server will be until it exceeds the 50 milliseconds.

[winged palm]

50ms is a lot of time to do a lot of things, spreading that across multiple cores/threads is even better, syncing all them into one state is a bit annoying. my point is It doesnt make sense that such high end equipment cant handle 500 players at stable TPS

Is there a way you guys are testing/benchmarking the framework itself?

[little sable]

Yes, in reality, we've been using Folia in production for literally a year. We've had peak player counts of 600 players, but since we have a lot of cores, and therefore a lot of regional threads, I haven't had any performance problems (except if the players build very, very large farms, which naturally causes their TPS and MSPT to be really bad).

[winged palm]

my goal is to let players build very very large farms 😢

[little sable]

You need a high CPU frequency and many cores for this. But there will always be a physical limit

[winged palm]

.

[quaint panther]

they have, it's probably in readme

[little sable]

If you want more details, you can go and see here:

• https://paper-chan.moe/folia
• https://cubxity.dev/blog/folia-test-june-2023

[winged palm]

I checked, it isnt

[winged palm]

so just public tests

[little sable]

Yes, and it's enough to give you a very good idea

[winged palm]

not really, I want to investigate and see where I can improve in performance and make some prs, wouldn't want to make a whole benchmarking suite myself

[finite hinge]

Load testing Minecraft servers is basically impossible

You just have to get spark reports from real servers with real players and see where the hotspots are

[little sable]

You can use Spark to see what is consuming the most resources

[winged palm]

offline bots sending packets...

[finite hinge]

Technically you could make bots that walk around, mine, build, fight mobs, whatever but at that point you're putting a ton of effort in to making bots that still probably won't match up to actual player behavior

It's harder to make an accurate bot than it is to make Folia 😄

And of course each server will to some extent have their own different hotspots

[winged palm]

yeah i get you, but something basic shouldnt be trivial, and would/should give you a good insight

[finite hinge]

Maybe on your server everyone idles at farms but on my server there are no farms and people just mine all day but on someone else's people are just nonstop walking around

[winged palm]

or all 3 🙂

[finite hinge]

Sure you might get a mix

So now you need 3 bots 😄

[winged palm]

3 non trivial activities

[finite hinge]

Last time I tried to do simulated loads to optimize CraftBukkit I ended up making it slower for most actual servers because my bots were not doing a key thing real players did

[winged palm]

for example?

[finite hinge]

I don't remember what it was, probably walking normally, I think I just had them teleporting short hops

I was optimizing chunk lookups so that makes sense

[winged palm]

so how did it end up being slower for actual servers

[finite hinge]

Basically don't try to microoptimize off simulated loads

I was tuning a HashMap (writing a custom one with a custom hasher, etc) and my worst case performance for that was something my bots didn't hit often but real players did

This was 2013 or 2014, the details are going to be vague

[winged palm]

hm, i think there needs to be some sort of replay-ability, record packets from 5-10 players from join and simulate those

[finite hinge]

Hmm, this might be completely wrong but it suddenly popped in to my head that my bots were hitting the key not found case (need to load the chunk) while players were more likely to hit the key found case (walking in to loaded chunks) and my map was way better for the first one but worse than the existing map for the second one

Or vice versa

But that's going to be server dependent too so you might find a real server where my map would help but that's still not valid to go in to a project like folia or paper, it needs to be generally good

[winged palm]

I want to investigate, but I don't know what values to go off of

[finite hinge]

You really just need to run your own popular server or get someone who does to hook you up with spark reports

[winged palm]

hm

[paper siren]

There also isn’t much low hanging fruit in Paper and Folia anymore

[umbral vault]

i guess zgc dont liked 18gb ram

https://spark.lucko.me/jRfn9ZRWq0

very funny test.

falling back again to g1.

[paper siren]

You didn’t test anything

Also not Folia and outdated Java version

[umbral vault]

outdated java version???

its graalvm 24?

canvas is fork of folia.

i just test the gc latencies at 18gb ram allocation, while using zgc

[little sable]

Java 24 is no longer supported; its end of support was in September 2025
Now the latest LTS is Java 25

[paper siren]

Wtf does "GC latencies" even mean? Are you mixing up cycle duration with pause time?

[umbral vault]

garbage collector latency

i was looking all of them their frequencies and ms

[paper siren]

For a process running for 36s

Whatever you did is flawed on basically every level

[rich python]

I’ve noticed that some players randomly get disconnected and see the message:

“Your connection to Folia encountered a problem.”

Just to clarify — the server is running Folia 1.21.4, and its name is simply “Folia.” So the word “Folia” in that message is just the server name; it could be anything else depending on the server’s name.

It doesn’t look like the server is actually kicking them — and the players aren’t doing anything to leave either. It’s as if they suddenly disconnect on their own, and then the server just shows that message.

This happens randomly and without any clear reason. Do you have any idea what might cause this kind of disconnect or if it could be related to Folia itself?

[fair merlin]

That sounds less like a Folia thing and more like a proxy thing.

But 1.21.4 is pretty old - I'd probably recommend starting to update.

We definitely don't support 1.21.4 anymore

[rich python]

i will update to 1.21.8 soon

maby it will fix it

[cobalt sapphire]

hey, when folia for 1.21.10 will be released?

[balmy solstice]

Hi, could there be problems if I set "grid-exponent" to 1? What would be the best value?

[fair merlin]

We don't have an ETA. Folia tends to be on slower releases.

[cobalt sapphire]

okay, thanks

[umbral vault]

depends on your server gamemode, needs.

[junior raven]

for folia - any spigot/paper mechanic will run the same on folia or are there "side effects"~?

As a example how does folia handles eventhandler priority~? since plugins run not longer in the same thread/loop~

Or plugin using~ "Depends on, Loads after"~?

[fair merlin]

You’ll want to read up on the docs there (and in this channel). Folia isn’t for every server / use case, so make sure it’ll work for you. Plugin support is more limited also.

[junior raven]

mean you might be able to tell me if it would or wouldnt work for my server~
survival faction - but i make all plugins myself the only 2 plugins that aren't written by me currently is worldedit / coreprotect~

plugin support would be my least concern

aahh i see will benefit smp so for me it would

[vestal basin]

You get benefits if players are properly spread across the world

[junior raven]

ahh oki yeah that would benefit my server
the only thing i wonder is how it handles duo CPU~ (idk if this is all handled by the OS)

[vestal basin]

That’s pretty much handled by the os i’m sure

[vestal basin]

Btw about this

[vestal basin]

You want to prevent players from getting too close from each other or their regions will merge
Each region is handled by a single thread, you don’t want to end up using folia with a single huge region

[junior raven]

mhm~ can't not setup a max region size~? so even if close by that its not 1 massive region?

since the server should still benefit from the multithreaded performance compared to paper? (world, nether, end) are already 3 worlds~

[vestal basin]

Btw, this is an oversimplification, you’ll want to read the docs on the regionising section

[junior raven]

or will the server end up been less performance if player cluster~

[vestal basin]

Nope, regions are not exposed in any way

Folia handles everything automatically

[junior raven]

i will read into the docs~ i mostly want to use the hardware i have to increase performance across the server. Its a small server (player count) but got the hardware for a big server

[vestal basin]

Kinda, but personally I only see players on the overworld
Almost no one hangs around in the end
And the nether is just an oversized highway

Depends on what your players do

[junior raven]

at this point of time not much x3 but i want to build a server that will last for a life time without to much managing
just want to prevent lagg and optimize the server to its max~

[vestal basin]

If it’s small you could go with paper with just a couple of cores and save some money
If you still want to run folia, you’ll still get benefits even in a small server as long as you manage to get this spread

[junior raven]

the server specs i got is 36 cores (72 threads) 192gb ram~

[vestal basin]

That’s for a huge server yh

[junior raven]

not allocated to the server fully only 24 cores - 16gb ram but will increase when necessary

for now i will read into the docs and then got to figure out when to find time to rewrite plugins to folia

thanks for all information so far!

okay 1 more question does Folia work with Velocity?

[vestal basin]

Yup

Velocity kinda works with everything, anything paper-based (like folia), fabric, forge and even vanilla

https://discord.com/channels/289587909051416579/908507866183372801

[fair merlin]

Also NUMA (dual CPU) isn’t officially supported, so use at your own risk.

[tepid pollen]

Can i run folia on a Dedicated Server like AMD Ryzen™ 9 7950X3D? (smp server)

[dim merlin]

In theory paper should also be able to handle that
Given the other specs of the server are decent too

But if you have the resources and meet the requirements to use folia you will definitely profit from it

[balmy solstice]

it's a smp but the world is big

[umbral vault]

its also depends on player spreading

if u spreading them too near

make it 1

But if ur spreading them too far based on each player

make it 2-3-4-5...

[balmy solstice]

Is there any chance that the ad 1 grid will cause problems? like desync or player kicks?

[balmy solstice]

I currently have about 150/200 players in a 30kx30k world

no, 60k x 60k sorry

[umbral vault]

do it 1.

[umbral vault]

no

[balmy solstice]

mhm

i'll try, thank you ^^

[balmy solstice]

Oh, another question (sorry). If I have 32 threads and the entire machine is dedicated to that mode only, how should I set up the various threads?

[livid crag]

Not big enough

[balmy solstice]

how much would you recommend?

[livid crag]

Players need to be thousands blocks away from each other

[umbral vault]

^

[umbral vault]

still depends. But if u wanna learn them u can look to papermc configuration in their website

For more information

[balmy solstice]

okay, thank you so much

[timber igloo]

not sure how useful example numbers are to you, we have 400k x 400k, and we basically have 1 region per player, besides that spawn region and sometimes players teaming.

[north shale]

If your players are close, they will all be lumped into one big region. Better to use a standard paper server at that point.

Though I guess separate dimensions would still tick separately

[azure cloud]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kc_CRcvmwVI

I am useing canvas and i have tryed to get this to wwork but it dosent quit work

[fierce knot]

canvas-server.json5 by @azure cloud: https://pastes.dev/6VijA9RCdt

[fierce knot]

paper-world-defaults.yml by @azure cloud: https://pastes.dev/zeFNCgUNRQ

[fierce knot]

paper-global.yml by @azure cloud: https://pastes.dev/SYsA2oD9jD

[azure cloud]

So when i am just only using papper with the configs it works but not whn i get canvas as well bc then it breaks

Any help with this?

[daring nimbus]

idk what Canvas is, but if it breaks with that, you should ask them for help

[azure cloud]

it is a version of folia

[daring nimbus]

we only support Folia here, not forks of Folia

[azure cloud]

ok