folia-help

[proper coyote]

no

[viral coral]

you probably don't need folia

you'd probably experience a better experience on paper

[fair merlin]

Okay, if they're very spread out and you have the server to support it, then you could use it. But most "events" are probably better run on Paper.

[proper coyote]

Nah, I'm just messin. It varies. We have between 20-300 palyers

[scenic sky]

and do you have the hardware to support that

[fair merlin]

Especially becuase you're typically stripping away a bunch of features.

[proper coyote]

And I want Folia so that as many players as want to join, can join

[west lily]

What hardware do you have

[fair merlin]

Most events aren't really for survival-type servers.

[proper coyote]

Skynode hosted server

20 GB RAM

[scenic sky]

yeah it wont do

[west lily]

Yeah no folia for you

[fair merlin]

Oh yeah that's not going to be great for Folia.

[viral coral]

folia is not something you'd want to run on a shared hosting server

[west lily]

You need at least 16 dedicated cores and all the ram you can give it

[fair merlin]

You want dedicated harder with a fast CPU and a lot of cores.

[west lily]

(Way more than 20gb)

[fair merlin]

I also don't think we need like four people telling one person this, though.

But if you don't know how to compile Folia or Paper then you're probably going to run into issues running Folia.

[proper coyote]

Okay, okay. I'll upgrade to 21 GB RAM. That'll do it

[scenic sky]

it wont

[fair merlin]

They clearly know that.

[proper coyote]

So your saying that I just shouldn't use Folia?

[fair merlin]

Based on what you've said, probably not, no.

If you're running a shared host it will likely be slower than Paper.

[proper coyote]

Hmm.. I read it was optimal for vanilla experience. I plan to use very few plugins. Just anti-cheat and voice chat

[west lily]

^^ and you’re not gonna get 300 people on 20gb

[proper coyote]

Well...

[fair merlin]

It's good for a vanilla experience, but the hardware requirements are pretty specific.

[proper coyote]

maybe

[tawdry gull]

Folia

Folia is a fork of Paper that adds multi-threaded region support. Many plugins will require updating to support Folia. There is no ETA for publicly available builds.

For more information:

• Readme
• FAQ
• Regionising logic
• Detailed overview
• Javadocs

Folia will:

• NOT be backported to older versions <1.19.4
• NOT be merged into Paper
• NOT be ported to Fabric nor Forge

Stay tuned to #announcements for any further info about releases.

'ETA' means 'Estimated Time of Arrival'!

[proper coyote]

oh...

[west lily]

No, definitely

[fair merlin]

Reading that documentation is a good start.

[proper coyote]

I see... Well, how many players do you think I could get on my 20 GB server without Folia?

100?

[fair merlin]

No.

[scenic sky]

barely depends on your ram

[fair merlin]

It depends on the CPU as much as the RAM.

But there's no easy math for "how many players?"

It depends on the plugins, what the players are doing, how far apart they are, etc etc.

Most likely it's going to be slower than Paper.

[proper coyote]

sorry everyone, lol

[scenic sky]

with paper, you really rarely need to surpass the region of 10 gigs, other limits will be met befote

[proper coyote]

Yeah, I'm pretty sure it's AMD

[fair merlin]

You need a dedicated CPU for Folia.

Which AMD CPU it is will matter very much.

Running on a shared host is not going to perform well.

With Paper it's a different story. With Folia it has specific requirements, as I said above.

You should read the documentation.

[proper coyote]

Players will be spread out, there will be few plugins, and the server runs on an AMD host. You still think Folia wouldn't be the best option?

[fair merlin]

That's still not enough information.

[proper coyote]

oh

hmmm

[tacit tartan]

"AMD" is like saying you drive a Ford. That could mean a Mustang, or a Fiesta. If you've got a CPU model number, send that

[fair merlin]

If it's a shared host, then no, Folia is not the best option.

[proper coyote]

When I purchased Skynode server it said dedicated server

But I assume it just means shared by that...

cuz

[fair merlin]

I don't think Skynode has dedicated hardware.

[proper coyote]

yeah

[fair merlin]

It should say how many cores or "vCores" you have.

But just skimming their website it doesn't seem to be an offering from them.

Again, you should read the documentation I linked above.

[proper coyote]

I have 400% CPU which I assume means 4 cores

[fair merlin]

Yeah, that's not going to work for Folia.

[proper coyote]

oh ):

[fair merlin]

Again: read the documentation I linked above.

[proper coyote]

hold on one sec

[proper coyote]

What about this

[tacit tartan]

from the pinned FAQ:
"Q: Can I run this on my 4 core hosted server?"

A: No, you need 16 CPU cores (32 CPU threads) to run Folia.

[proper coyote]

Hmmm. Well I concede; Folia isn't for me

Sorry to bother all of you

Um

Yeah

I'm just gonna go now

[finite hinge]

On top of all that there is no anti-cheat or voice chat plugin for Folia

[warped tulip]

Grim supports folia

[viral lichen]

is there a list of plugins that support folia?

[gentle raven]

i mean there certainly isn't a list that contains every plugin but on hangar you have a filter for that

[viral lichen]

okay thanks

[warped tulip]

What are the conditions of region merge and unmerge?

and what are the size of the regions and if there is a way to change it? for example if i allocate more threads to regions will it make my regions smaller

[inner swift]

In the newest versions, if two players are ~900 blocks apart, they they will be in the same region, used to be ~1500

Not sure about unmerge conditions

Amount of regions are only decided by player spread

To configure region size, there's
https://github.com/PaperMC/Folia/commit/6928284a5652eb66040166c4ce9ea8f87034bc49
It has performance overheads

[warped tulip]

What would you recommend to use i am currently using a map of 3k by 3k with 500 players expected on launch day because of the map scale would using folia help the performance or will just cause all regions to merge and ultimately make paper a better choice?

[inner swift]

Paper will be a better choice

[warped tulip]

100%? like the regions won't really help with tps?

[inner swift]

You will have only 1 region in your world, since Folia has overheads to manage them, Folia will actually perform worse than Paper in your case

[warped tulip]

So folia is basically built for servers like 2b2t where there is endless generation

[inner swift]

Yep, or stuff like skyblock, minigames where people are very far apart, etc

[warped tulip]

fair enough thanks for your help

[calm fable]

im on 1.20.2 of folia, getting a wierd issue trying to whitelist people, it says player does not exist, but if i turn off whitelisting, let them join the server, and then whitelist them and turn it back on, it works fine

anyone see that?

[inner swift]

Just a sanity check, it's online-mode, right?

[livid crag]

That’s a vanilla issue that exist too

[calm fable]

yes

how do you fix it?

[livid crag]

I mean what you did is how I fixed it

Lmao

[scenic sky]

it just happens sometimes

blame mojank

[calm fable]

just disable the whitelist? i need the whitelist

[untold wing]

You can do as you've said, temporarily turn off the whitelist and let players join the server, add them to the whitelist and then turn it back on.

The server will try to pull the corresponding UUID off the mojang server if there's no UUID cache for that player

[calm fable]

right how do i fix the issue of it not being able to grab from mojangs server?

[untold wing]

Maybe manually add the player's username and UUID to playercache.json? I haven't tried that before, cannot guarantee.

[calm fable]

i mean the way its looking now i will have to write my own python script to get the UUID, and forcefully inject it into whitelist.json, and then rcon a whitelist reload

[fair merlin]

Be aware that rcon support is sketchy for Folia.

Didn't that bug get fixed in 1.20.4?

[calm fable]

this is a known bug?

[arctic tapir]

.

https://bugs.mojang.com/browse/MC-224875 probably

[hexed ice]

.

[arctic tapir]

2 messages

[calm fable]

so everything im reading says this issue is from mojang's api service not responding properly

if thats true is everyone having issues whitelisting people?

[livid crag]

That's the best part. It only happens someitmes 😉

[calm fable]

well i wrote a quick bypass thanks to chatgpt. ```#!/bin/bash

Check if the username argument is provided

if [ "$#" -ne 1 ]; then
echo "Usage: $0 username"
exit 1
fi

Assign argument to a variable

username=$1

Define the whitelist file path

whitelist_file="whitelist.json"

Check if whitelist file exists

if [ ! -f "$whitelist_file" ]; then
echo "Whitelist file not found!"
exit 1
fi

Fetch UUID for the given username using curl and jq

uuid=$(curl -s "https://playerdb.co/api/player/minecraft/$username" | jq -r '.data.player.id')

Check if UUID is valid

if [ -z "$uuid" ]; then
echo "Failed to fetch UUID for $username"
exit 1
fi

Create a new JSON entry for the user

new_entry=$(echo "{"uuid": "$uuid", "name": "$username"}")

Add new entry to the whitelist

Using jq for handling JSON data

jq ". += [$new_entry]" "$whitelist_file" > temp.json && mv temp.json "$whitelist_file"

echo "Added $username with UUID $uuid to the whitelist."

[livid crag]

not officially supported.

[calm fable]

but its there and will take requests

yes?

[livid crag]

I dont think so

[calm fable]

i have no idea how to do console injection

[calm fable]

well using the script works i just need to do a whitelist reload every time i use it

is rcon not working related to why command blocks dont work?

[viral stone]

rcon should be working now?

[fair merlin]

I thought it was kinda half working

[calm fable]

im getting bigtime errors on the console

[viral stone]

well, you're not going to see command feedback iirc, but it should dispatch

/version

and what errors?

[calm fable]

unexpected exception

[viral stone]

well, yes

exceptions are generally unexpected

[calm fable]

can i post a photo in here?

[viral stone]

ideally paste it, but, yes

[calm fable]

let me see if its already in latest.log

[fierce knot]

message.txt by @calm fable: https://pastes.dev/Phos3h2MHN

[viral stone]

ah, probs because outdated

[calm fable]

my jar or mcrcon

[viral stone]

your jar

[calm fable]

fuck i hate rebuilding that

[viral stone]

rcon support was only readded recently

[calm fable]

ok lemme rebuild the folia

whoa its .4

need .2

[fair merlin]

I can't imagine any Folia plugins that support 1.20.2 and don't support 1.20.4, are there?

[calm fable]

no but clients will have to upgrade and lots of mods dont support .4 yet like lightmatica printer

so i assume theres no backports to .2 eh 😄

well crudler

[viral stone]

no, you would need to backport it yourself

[calm fable]

ok gonna build .4 then

just sent a server announcement

my users gonna hate me

[inner swift]

ViaVersion?

[calm fable]

any reason i got files named like this? ```rwxr-xr-x 7 samos samos 4096 Jan 5 21:02 ..
-rw-r--r-- 1 samos samos 21266288 Jan 5 21:02 folia-server-1.20.2-R0.1-SNAPSHOT-mojang-mapped.jar
-rw-r--r-- 1 samos samos 21898427 Jan 5 21:02 folia-server-1.20.2-R0.1-SNAPSHOT-reobf.jar

shouldnt it say 1.20.4?

[viral stone]

one would assume that you forgot to git pull

[calm fable]

not true

[viral stone]

failing that, wrong command or forgot to apply patches

[calm fable]

i did apply patches

./gradlew applypatches and then buildreobf

let me just redownload clean

[viral stone]

you want createReobfPaperclipJar

[calm fable]

oh?

ok

thanks!

i assume all my startup tweaks and such can remain?

[viral stone]

yes

[calm fable]

strange i got the same 1.20

[tranquil epoch]

master is 1.20.2, you want to pull from dev/1.20.4

[calm fable]

oh

ok changing branches!

sorry i thought master was now 1.20.4

wheres my brain tonight

[knotty egret]

Hello guys, what exactly should I write here instead of Executor?

[viral stone]

it can be swapped for a folia aware executor

I mean, we can't really comment on random libraries, but, I mean, see if they provide an executor which fits the context you need?

[knotty egret]

Actually, I don't know how to get executor in Folia.

[viral stone]

you don't

basically

Folia does not provide any executors

There is no "main thread", and so the notion of a main thread executor literally makes 0 sense in terms of folia

[knotty egret]

Yes I've seen this but the method here requires an executor.

[viral stone]

That changes nothing of what I've said

if you want an executor, make one

but, like, once again, there is no main thread, the best you've got would be to basically make it take the runnable passed into the executor and shove it into the global executor, but that will probably cause issues depending on what you're doing

[knotty egret]

For example, could something like this happen? task -> player.getScheduler().run(plugin, (Consumer<ScheduledTask>) task, null)

[viral stone]

I mean, you can't just cast stuff like that, but, basically, yes

[knotty egret]

Yes, this player where AnvilGUI is shown. I guess it works then.

Thanks for help

[devout hare]

Got this when I tried to applyPatches, I don't konw if this is my problem: > Task patchCraftBukkit

Task patchCraftBukkit FAILED
Execution failed for task 'patchCraftBukkit'.
io.papermc.paperweight.PaperweightException: Command finished with 128 exit code: git -c commit.gpgsign=false -c core.safecrlf=false apply --ignore-whitespace --directory=src/main/java C:\Users\user\Downloads\Folia-dev-1.20.4\Folia.gradle\caches\paperweight\upstreams\paper.gradle\caches\paperweight\taskCache\patchCraftBukkitPatches.zip--1518836604\net\minecraft\world\level\storage\loot\predicates\LootItemConditionRandomChanceWithLooting.patch

[viral stone]

use a shorter path

[devout hare]

thanks I'll try that

[gentle raven]

or even better use wsl

[hidden turtle]

which plugins are incompatible with folia?

are all of them that have not implemented compatible features?

Like I have this simple plugin that enables obisidan to be destroyed by tnt

https://www.spigotmc.org/resources/blowable-obsidians.24194/

Would this one have issues with folia?

I know I probably have to just test it out

But was wondering if all "old" plugins are just incompatible with folia

[fair merlin]

Plugins have to be built to be specifically compatible with Folia. So if it doesn't explicitly state it then it won't work.

[hidden turtle]

answer I was looking for, thank you 🙂

[fair merlin]

You can sort by Folia support on Hangar

Random plugins likely aren't gonna work.

[shrewd agate]

how is folia doing? the github repository hasnt been updated in 2 months

[viral stone]

branches...

[shrewd agate]

what does dev and ver mean in dev/1.20.4 and ver/1.19.4

[fair merlin]

Just bad naming basically.

[viral stone]

development, version

[shrewd agate]

well yeah but isnt 1.20.4 also a version

[viral stone]

Yes

but that is not a version branch

that is a development branch

when he is happy with it he will merge it into the mainline branch

[mystic shard]

How much percent is the core ready?

[tawdry gull]

__There Is No ETA__

Updates to Paper do not have any sort of estimate for when they release, ever. Any and all updates will arrive when they are ready, and the only thing to do is wait for them patiently along with everyone else.

ETA means 'Estimated Time of Arrival'!

[inner swift]

But I mean, it seems to work fine, as long as you have the hardware, dev resources to manage it (and work around the missing API), port plugins, etc, there are big prod servers on it

[pseudo ibex]

Hahah definitely. Especially dev resources. Porting plugins can get expensive.

That’s all depending on the scale of work that needs to get done of course.

[junior osprey]

If I switched to Folia, to Paper, to folia again, will I get any issues?

I just did that

[fair merlin]

The world won't be impacted.

[junior osprey]

Oh what about besides my world?

[fair merlin]

Folia is a fork of Paper so it doesn't care.

[junior osprey]

Thanks! So like no chance of corruption or anything?

[fair merlin]

Nope.

[junior osprey]

Awesome! Thanks.

[fair merlin]

Plugins don't work between the two.

But otherwise it's fine.

[compact scaffold]

are there any working builds of grief prevention/defender for folia?
i'm not a fan of towny or xclaim, and can't find anything else thats compatible

[fair merlin]

Don't think so, if it's not showing up on Hangar/etc

[knotty egret]

is there any permission plugin or fork for folia?

[viral stone]

there was a luckperms PR or something

[knotty egret]

is luckperms work?

[viral stone]

I mean, the release version, no

the version on that branch, yes

[pseudo ibex]

There are forks of WorldGuard and WorldEdit that have support

[copper moon]

what the fart

[viral coral]

bukkit scheduler doesn't exist in folia

[copper moon]

ahh

should document that

[viral coral]

it is

[viral stone]

it is

[viral coral]

you should read the document

[copper moon]

oh

i looked up "folia runTaskTimerAsynchronously" and got nothing

and other combinations of that

but yeah, thanks

[viral coral]

https://github.com/PaperMC/Folia#api-plans

[south marsh]

Hi, the links to folia don't work for me, when you click on the link, it doesn't open

[rugged current]

what link...?

[fair merlin]

Can you be more specific? What link?

[calm fable]

how can i configure the threadpool on folia?

[fair merlin]

You mostly can't.

[calm fable]

"Folia will create many spread out regions and tick them all in parallel on a configurable sized threadpool"

then thats wrong lol

[fair merlin]

You can configure the size.

As in, how many threads you give Folia.

That's why I said "mostly".

[calm fable]

ok that part, how do i do that

cuz i want to reserve all cpu cores but 2 for folia

[fair merlin]

I'd recommend reading the documentation.

https://docs.papermc.io/folia/faq

[calm fable]

so interstingly the documentation is incredibly sparse and doesnt actually cover how to configure that

[fair merlin]

It's in that link I linked above.

Documentation isn't super thick, no, but the information you need is in there.

[calm fable]

thats what im looking at

[fair merlin]

Best I can suggest is to read it and not skim it, I guess?

[calm fable]

unless i have some incredible misunderstanding going on, it does not say where to configure that

[fair merlin]

I'm looking right at it.

[calm fable]

its 2 pages

[fair merlin]

@thin anvil We do not allow advertising here, sorry.

[thin anvil]

No I was asking that is my idea is good

Did you read all of it

[calm fable]

The total number of cores on the machine available should be taken into account. Then, allocate threads for:

netty IO :~4 per 200-300 players
chunk system io threads: ~3 per 200-300 players
chunk system workers if pre-generated, ~2 per 200-300 players
There is no best guess for chunk system workers if not pre-generated, as on the test server we ran we gave 16 threads but chunk generation was still slow at ~300 players.
GC Settings: ???? But, GC settings do allocate concurrent threads, and you need to know exactly how many. This is typically through the -XX:ConcGCThreads=n flag. Do not confuse this flag with -XX:ParallelGCThreads=n, as parallel GC threads only run when the application is paused by GC and as such should not be taken into account.

• this is all i see but this doesnt explain how to set these

i know the GC flag is from the java command line

[thin anvil]

I didn’t even made the website just an idea and asking if it was good to the com

[fair merlin]

Paper config files.

[calm fable]

ah ok

thank you!

[fair merlin]

The next paragraph after your paste:

After all of that allocation, the remaining cores on the system until 80% allocation (total threads allocated < 80% of cpus available) can be allocated to tickthreads (under global config, threaded-regions.threads).

"under global config"

[thin anvil]

What do you need I left paper and stuff just focused on folia I may help

[fair merlin]

Admittedly a little more vague than calling out the actual file name, but again, Folia is still being worked on and at this stage you should know to be checking the config files and so forth.

[fair merlin]

They got an answer to their question.

[calm fable]

i get that ocelo, but im running folia on a live server now and I just wanna be sure i get it tuned down before we get hundreds of players on, if we can reach that.

right now i only get 20-30 on at once, so i cant find any bottlenecks

[thin anvil]

Bdw do you think my idea is good?

[fair merlin]

I don't, no.

I wouldn't recommend using GPT-stuff for plugin conversions.

[thin anvil]

Ocelotpotpie is right folia is on beta and not even released yet because of that the doc might be little short. You can find your advanced answers in configs and in the source code if you scrable it a bit.

Maybe in issues or commit descriptions too

[marsh maple]

(659dd31e42b7936e54a59fd5) // @muted hatch (@tu2413 / 868782028982747166) has been banned by @viral coral (215448923681062913)
Reason: spam

[vale sable]

[still hazel]

I realize it's there for a very good reason but is there a way to make folia ignore whether or not a plugin is marked for supporting folia?

because I have some plugins I just want to try even if they likely will fail, and some plugins that do actually say they support it but they are not marked

[fair merlin]

No.

They have to be built for Folia.

[still hazel]

alright

any good resources for finding folia working plugins? I just need an auto restart

I've looked in hangar

[fair merlin]

Plugin support is still pretty limited, since adoption is limited and it's still in active development.

Hangar is probably the best spot.

[still hazel]

there isn't any possibility ever that an autorestart plugin would work with folia?

unless adapted

[fair merlin]

Plugins have to be built specifically for Folia to run on Folia.

If someone built one for Folia, sure it'd work.

[still hazel]

if you removed the mark check that means every single one you could every run no matter what it did would fail?

[fair merlin]

Not sure I understand what you're saying.

But plugins simply won't run on Folia unless they're built for Folia.

[still hazel]

because they can't or because they are manually rejected?

[fair merlin]

You need to find one that does what you want that's built for Folia or you need to have one made.

[still hazel]

I'm just curious at this point what percentage of regular paper plugin compatibility is left in folia, like is it a brick wall or are there small holes but the plugin is still stopped?

[fair merlin]

Something like an autostart plugin that works on Paper is probably going to be looking for a scheduler that doesn't even exist on Folia. So it wouldn't work without needing to be re-written.

[still hazel]

ah okay

[fair merlin]

A plugin has to be specifically built to run on Folia or it will not run.

Period.

Whoever writes the code for the plugin needs to specify Folia support and build that when the plugin is made.

[still hazel]

so everything has been replaced, there is no avenue, not even a single normal function in a regular plugin would ever work?

[fair merlin]

If it's not built for Folia it won't work.

That'll always be the case.

Any plugin to run on Folia will have to be built for Folia.

[timid grotto]

sure, you can technically modify the plugin.yml and set the folia supported value to true on a plugin that wasnt made for folia, but at least 99% of plugins will not run, even if you change that since folia breaks api

[fair merlin]

Plugins for Paper and Folia can work a little different.

[still hazel]

what I'm trying to ask is the specifics, I know that it won't work if not built for folia, but like if you tried running a command from minecraft 1.0 on the latest, there may be at least. 1 single command that still works

idk the actual reality but I'm just giving an example

[timid grotto]

see the readme

[fair merlin]

I don't really understand your analogy here. A command from an older version of Minecraft might work because that command hasn't been replaced. If it has, it wouldn't work.

But Folia is a fork of Paper with a bunch of different internals. So some stuff is just . . . different.

[still hazel]

well thank you, I might try that but I am fully aware to no little degree of the fact its probably not gonna work

my hopes for it are in the gutter from the start

[fair merlin]

Reading the docs and readme would be helpful, but if you don't know how to write Java then you might not understand some stuff.

I would strongly advise against modifying plugins to work on Folia if you don't know what you're doing, though.

At least not to run on a live server.

[still hazel]

yea that's what I mean, some stuff technically could work if they did very specific stuff that only used the old components but most things won't work

[fair merlin]

It really depends on what "stuff" it is.

Some APIs just don't exist in Folia at all.

The way a lot of plugins are written would end up doing weird unsafe things on Folia, too.

So you really have to go through them and tweak.

[still hazel]

yea, that's what I meant with the holes in the wall analogy, the compatibility of any plugin is never exactly 0%

[fair merlin]

If it were as easy as checking a box for Folia support then tons and tons of plugins would be supporting it.

[still hazel]

yea makes sense

[fair merlin]

But they need changes, and some of those changes are tricky or total showstoppers, so they haven't been migrated.

[fair merlin]

This just isn't true.

[still hazel]

what do you mean?

[fair merlin]

If a plugin were looking for one of the schedulers that's gone, then it would be 0% compatible.

[still hazel]

I didn't mean it would run

[fair merlin]

At any rate.

Find a plugin that supports Folia, have someone write one, or adjust your needs.

Those are basically your three options.

[still hazel]

if you made a percentage difference between what old code was in the new stuff it would be a high difference but I doubt would ever be 100% totalum

[fair merlin]

If you're running into issues like this you also want to read all the documentation, because there's a chance that Folia may not work for your needs.

For example, players need to be spread far apart.

And clock speed and core counts need to be high.

People seem to keep missing these points.

[still hazel]

oh I'm not that worried I'm just enjoying talking about it aswell

[timid grotto]

a plugin that just sends a "i have enabled" message on startup, but wasnt designed for folia, would probably run fine on folia if you set the flag, but as soon as you want to interact with blocks or entities, you have to be using the scheduler which just didnt exist until folia came around

[still hazel]

oh yea I'm already pushing it honestly, it's running on a raspberry pi 5

with the cooler and overclocking

[fair merlin]

There is absolutely no way it's going to run on a Raspberry pi.

I mean, it'll start.

[still hazel]

what do you mean?

it is right now

[timid grotto]

a rPi can barely run paper lmao

[still hazel]

it's been for the past few days

[fair merlin]

Yeah.

Idling, or with people playing on it?

[still hazel]

people playing on it

tps 20

like 6 or so people it was 20tps

even when they were grouped together playing around

overclocked with the official cooler

[fair merlin]

Paper would run faster than Folia on that hardware.

[still hazel]

oh sorry am I not allowed to put an address

[fair merlin]

Also we don't allow advertising, which is why I keep deleting that link.

[still hazel]

oooh okay sorry bout that

I thought the first time I just didn't send it

[fair merlin]

The short version is:

With lots of players, on high end hardware, Folia runs faster than Paper.

On lower end hardware, Paper will be faster.

So you really shouldn't be running Folia for anything other than a test.

[still hazel]

yea makes sense, well it's also just for a small discord server, I'm just going to see where it goes

it seems to be working well really

[timid grotto]

if you are only getting 1 region thread, paper will be faster

because folia with 1 region thread is just worse paper

[still hazel]

how do I check how many threads?

I'm actually still confused about even configuring the thread and core stuff

[timid grotto]

well, how many cores does your pi have?

[still hazel]

4 2.4ghz cores

I am very aware I am bottom of the barrel right now

I'll make sure to check out paper and see if it'd run faster than folia does some time

[viral stone]

Folia has logic to prevent non-folia plugins from loading because any plugin which isn't adopted properly is extreamly privy to cause issues ranging from the plugin breaking in interesting ways to just straight up crashing the server

while for some plugins adopting will be short work, some things, like the fact that the bukkit scheduler no longer exists, is going to break a good chunk of plugins, either directly or in ways which only show up when running on a "real world"

[dawn hawk]

@fair merlin @primal quail @tranquil epoch didn't have time to replicate this during the event, seemed to resolve the issue by running the map on a regular Paper server, saving, then loading it up on Folia.
No running theories other than some packet translation stuff on the proxies

So, more on the region stuff we spoke about. When users come together and regions combine onto a single thread - I built the 1.20.4 branch and lowered the grid exponent as low as 1 during testing, the mean tick duration on the region scheduler threads was lower on average but this is what the entity movement looked like

We have complete NPS captures you could take a look at with our continuous profiler tool, the raw files are several TB

For that shot is was probably 400

Sure will need to grant you access to our environment, DM me an email address plz

NPS files store data captured from the Java flight recorder for offline profiling later, our monitoring platform records continuously so we can analyse and compare profiles from any point in time

[tranquil epoch]

400 in one region is very challenging to work

only people to overcome that is mr. beast, but what they do is host many servers and synchronise and reimplement game mechanics over the network

[safe sundial]

is that technology public?

[viral stone]

no

it's pretty much just a "make the proxy broadcast some aspects instead of relying on the servers to do it"

It's been pulled off like 20 times, just nobody generally makes their stuff public because

1. fuck supporting that
2. The people who generally actually need that are willing to pay for it

[wheat bloom]

why the utilisation parameter is almost equal to a hundred, but the real load is much smaller

[viral stone]

you have 1 thread

there accounts some maths behind all that, but, like, that doesn't exactly map 1:1 with how your OS is utilising stuff

[wheat bloom]

what am I supposed to do in this situation?

[viral stone]

add more threads?

[wheat bloom]

add where?

config?

[viral stone]

Read the docs

[wheat bloom]

oh

sorry

[wheat bloom]

To be honest, even with folia documentation, I don't quite understand where exactly you need to specify the number of threads to be used

thx

would that really be enough? The average online is 50 people. smp server

[paper siren]

I mean you don't have that much more cores... you still want some of them to do all the other work

[wheat bloom]

I've roughly figured out how it works, thank you for your help!

thx

[tranquil epoch]

well the utilisation is not neccessarily calculated using CPU time, but rather the wall time. for example, if the region is being bogged down by other factors such as plugins doing IO or sync chunk loads that would not be included in CPU time, but would be in wall time

the utilisation factor being in wall time is deliberate as the scheduler can't schedule other regions to tick (like how the kernel is able to), even if we know one of them is waiting on IO or other things

another more important note is that the utilisation shown by folia is only the utilisation of the regions, and does not include everything else - such as netty IO compression/decompression/encryption/decryption, loading/generating/unloading chunks, and other tasks plugins may be doing asynchronously are not included in the utilisation shown there

[wheat bloom]

Okay, well, thanks for the info

[tranquil epoch]

(and the real load in that screenshot is technically higher than shown)

yes he is right, if you disable a lot of things you can probably push 8tps and that's not in scope for folia and certainly not even paper

[livid crag]

Fix lag by disabling half of the game

[pseudo ibex]

[pine kettle]

Can anyone tell me how to actually compile folia's jar to an older version i need folia 1.20.1 but the one i get is the latest which is 1.20.4 so can anyone real quick tell me the procedure to change versions of the jars when compiling please

[thick halo]

check out a commit where it's still .1 and build that

[livid crag]

If you can’t compile it, you are better off using paper.

[pine kettle]

no i can just was having a bit of confusion at reverting to older versions lol

[fair merlin]

You need to buuld the older version. So as Eternity said, if you don't know how to do that then you probably aren't going to want to use Folia.

But that said, especially with Folia, which is in active development, you want to be on 1.20.4

Leaf just pushed a bunch of new changes yesterday.

Folia's pretty cutting edge so you really should be running the most recent build.

[finite hinge]

I don't know about 1.20.1 but I know older versions had some problems

Like, kill the server problems

If you do go with 1.20.1 you'd better backport basically all the later Folia changes to it

[copper prism]

just use limbo or nanolimbo

[thin anvil]

Guys I builded the last version and there are some tipical issues that I don't understand. Firstly When I break anything I cannot get the drop it doesn't drop anything. Secondly there are no damage in the game like no fall damage or wolf hunting a sheep or any other damage types. Lastly after log out and log in the op permission resets, I didn't understand why. Could someone help me fix these.

no didn't shall I post the plugin list ?

what is IMO

oh... ok

[wary shale]

Is finite map 3700x3700 is too low to make a difference when using folia?

[daring nimbus]

yes

[wheat bloom]

How to allocate more resources to the region?

[viral coral]

you don't

there's 2577 entities in a single region, probably want to see what those entities are

folia doesn't change anything to the fact that you can't put 3000 AI heavy entities in a small area

[merry steppe]

Hi there.

I've question about the required CPU. If my world if fully pre-generated, can I allocate 0 cores for generation purposes? And also, is it enough to have 8 cores (16 threads) to run folia in 200-300 online in that config?

netty IO :~4 per 200-300 players
chunk system io threads: ~3 per 200-300 players
chunk system workers if pre-generated, ~2 per 200-300 players
There is no best guess for chunk system workers if not pre-generated, as on the test server we ran we gave 16 threads but chunk generation was still slow at ~300 players.

So, basically I ** have to** allocate 16 threads to achieve acceptable chunk loading even if there are no generation needs, correct?

[primal oyster]

Chunk generation is limited by default

Specially if it's players generating them.

By checking the src you'll see both follow the same "allocation" "Mojang" developed

If you want a tip

pregenerate with the flag for chunky to tick the chunks, you'll tick fluid generation and it'll make the pregen more efficient

Idk if chunky is already supporting folia

[timid grotto]

if its not, you can just pregen on paper

[near helm]

How much ram is needed for around 300-500 players?

I ordered a server with these specs:
2 × Intel Xeon E5-2698 v3 (16C 40M Cache 2.30 GHz)
2 × 32GB DDR4 RDIMM 2133MHz

Will this be enough for the players?

[primal oyster]

[viral stone]

it's all going to depend on how your players spread

multi-CPU is also not a supported-usecase i.e. you will take a perfhit, though, probs not noticable

what will be noticable is the 10 year old CPU

[near helm]

Alright thanks!

I will test it out and we will see how it runs

[ionic wadi]

Hi. I read this Part on the Folia Github. I dont really understand what that means. It says "there are plans to add API that would allow Folia plugins to be compatible with Paper." Does this mean there are Plans that will make Paper Plugins work on Folia without any adjustments or the other way around?

[viral stone]

no

the other way around, like adding the folia schedulers into paper, which was already done

[ionic wadi]

So that Devs use the Folia Scheduler. And this would mean that devs that use the old scheduler their Plugins wouldnt work on Folia?

So there wouldnt be a way to make already existing Paper Plugins work on Folia without adjustments?

[viral stone]

No, that is literally impossible

[arctic tapir]

correct

[ionic wadi]

Okay thanks

Is it normal that the Development Guide for Folia isnt availeble jet?

[viral stone]

it's pre-release software

(and documentation is more or less a community effort

[ionic wadi]

Okay

[finite hinge]

Waiting for you to write it 😄

[proper coyote]

Does Folia run well on cloud servers? I mean a powerful cloud server, of course with 32 cores and lots of RAM.

[inner swift]

It depends

Hosting is important because you never know the extent to which your hardware will be shared

And your biggest concern with webserver/cloud CPUs is how few players you're willing to fit in a single region

[proper coyote]

You can scale how many cores you want

[proper coyote]

I want about 5-25 players per region

[proper coyote]

So, what do you think of this: https://www.ionos.com/cloud/cloud-servers. What if I maxed it out, do you think that would run Folia smoothly?

Yes, but I only need my server up for about 8 hours a week

yeah, I plan on getting the custom one

[inner swift]

Can't exactly give advice on numbers and such, this is a quite expensive decision and Folia is relatively unexplored, especially in terms of benchmark

[proper coyote]

Yeah, I have a dedicated server with 20 GB RAM and it was lagging terribly with 40 players on it

So I need an alternative

[inner swift]

Which dedicated server? (I'm assuming you have 20GB allocated to the server, and not the entire machine)

[proper coyote]

yeah, it's just a regular Minecraft server host. Yeah, 20 GB allocated. https://www.skynode.pro/minecraft-server-hosting

[inner swift]

That's shared

[proper coyote]

oh

okay

[solid bison]

Isn’t oracle expensive af

Pain

[fair merlin]

You don't generally want to use "cloud servers" to run Paper or Folia.

Those sorts of services are usually virtualized buckets of CPU resources on a larger machine.

Folia in particular wants a lot of cores, so you're more likely to use a CPU that another provider would use to chop up into a bunch of smaller VMs.

I definitely wouldn't recommend Oracle for running Folia. It's going to be too expensive, too slow, not well suited, or some combination of the three.

[fair merlin]

I didn't say it was overprovisioned.

I don't think that's a universal truth either.

Oh, you deleted it.

Depends on the EPYC and the Ryzen.

Not everything is so cut and dry.

[solid bison]

O ye oracle bases prices on time on

[safe sundial]

i wonder if you could run a minecraft server on aws lambda

it'd be the worst way to run a minecraft server ever

but i bet you could do it

[manic basin]

Normal Farm like iron golem, gold farm, work normal like paper?

[livid crag]

if anything, it may work better if the players are THE ONLY person in its region

[weary salmon]

I took an old laptop and now I have created a server on the Folia core, it stably holds 30 players without lags, only lags when chunks are loaded, but this is not always now, zero lags, the core is very cool, here are the characteristics of the cpu n3350 4gb ram HDD 500GB

[rotund fossil]

Folia recommends at least 16 cores to run though

[timid grotto]

idk how many cores your "old laptop"s cpu has but it probably isnt enough to make folia run better than paper

[lofty magnet]

2 CPU Threads

lmao

[rotund fossil]

It's a celeron with 2 cores

smh

[timid grotto]

[lofty magnet]

I guess if all players are only in one region it will only run slightly worse than Paper

[viral stone]

I mean,you an run on less than specified, it's just not an environment that is catered for

recommendations are just the sorta environment you'd want if you where going all in on it

[manic basin]

Recommended me
AMD EPYC 7371 16core vs intel e2667 v2 16 core

What better for folia

Because they have the same price

[primal oyster]

intel e2667 v2 16 core is 8 cores not 16?

i cant find a version that is 16 cores

If those are your CPU options you're better off with a 7950x.
You'll have more power still with it

[manic basin]

This a vps

[viral stone]

which literally changes nothing

it's an 8 core chip

• HT, so, 16 threads

recommended specs are based on real cores as HT is a performance hit

but, outside of that, both options are generally poor, you'd need to compare the two

[manic basin]

48usd

I don't have much money for this.

[manic basin]

7950 It's too expensive

[paper siren]

in theory you can get whatever you want and try out to see how things perform, but you shouldn't expect anything

[livid crag]

If you can’t afford minimum hardware, you should run Paper

[manic basin]

I want something worthwhile.

because azure disable my account

[livid crag]

So have a budget that reflect that will be first step

[manic basin]

7950 115usd 😭😭

I know

4core ?

4vcore Is it possible?

This isn't important.

Because I hardly use plug-ins at all.

[viral stone]

Basically, we're not here to do your market research

and tossing a bunch of cash you have into using a platform you don't need is likely a waste of your money and time

[manic basin]

ok 4vcore & back to papermc

But I will upgrade just a little more.

Because some people are complaining about world gen problems.

[livid crag]

Huh

By “world gen” problem if you mean chunk loading being slow on new chunk, then address it by pregenerating

Not by throwing more hardware at it

[manic basin]

👍👍

Oh i used papermc because*** mods need used powerful ddc

papermc good for me Thanks for the new way.

[signal pike]

What are the recommended startup flags for folia?

Are aikar's still the best?

thanks

[tacit tartan]

Read the caused by

[signal pike]

Oops, wrong channel

That was supposed to be posted elsewhere for personal reference

Sorry!

[proper coyote]

Yes, so I need some form of cloud hosting. I plan on using Google Cloud Compute Engines

[fair merlin]

We don't really recommend cloud hosting for Folia.

You can try it if you want, but it's not likely to run well.

[proper coyote]

Why?

What if I were to allocate a couple hundred GB of RAM and around 100 cores? Would this solve the problem or is there a deeper reason that cloud computing isn't good for Folia?

[fair merlin]

It's not about how many cores, it's about where the cores are coming from and what kind of cores they are. You're generally going to get much better performance out of a dedicated server than something like GCP.

But you can always test it and see.

[proper coyote]

I would regularly use a dedicated server but it is just too expensive. And I only need the server around 30 hours a month.

So cloud hosting is my only hopee

[proper coyote]

I'm pretty sure I can customize the cores I get. I'll choose some sort of AMD core probably.

[fair merlin]

What I mean is, GCP cores aren't going to be equivalent to dedicated cores.

[proper coyote]

But, yeah, I guess I'll just test it and hope it works 🤞

[fair merlin]

It's going to run slower. How much slower it runs depends. If it runs so slow that it isn't usable, TBD.

But GCP will also have a slower filesystem.

So just in general, it's not recommended.

[proper coyote]

Oh, I see... Oh well, I'll just give it my best and hope it works

[fair merlin]

If you're using something for such a short window, is it a minigame? Are you sure Folia is right for your use case and not Paper? Are players spread out far enough/etc?

[proper coyote]

I host Minecraft Civilization Simulations and more and more people join events now and regular small dedicated servers just are too laggy now

Players are spread out pretty far

[fair merlin]

That doesn't really answer my question in terms of player distances.

They need to be 1500+ blocks apart, basically.

[proper coyote]

Yeah

they are

[fair merlin]

Otherwise you aren't getting a benefit from Folia.

[proper coyote]

yeah, they are

[inner swift]

Do report back with your results, they're always good to have

[fair merlin]

Yeah, more datapoints.

[proper coyote]

Okay, I will. I'm so sorry I have to go, I'll be back later

[inner swift]

(Psst, recently changed to default ~900 in a new commit)

[fair merlin]

Leaf lowered the default, yeah, but makes sense to still say "1500" because at 900 players could walk not that far and force a region join.

For something like a minigame

[proper coyote]

So, regions never separate after they've joined?

[proper coyote]

What do you think of MultiPaper? https://multipaper.io/

[inner swift]

Big no if you care about stability

[proper coyote]

oh

oh

[finite hinge]

They don't split as eagerly as they join to avoid flapping (merge/split/merge/split), it's something like after a certain number of chunks in the region are unloaded which you can sort of map to being a certain distance from each other but I don't remember the specific numbers

[proper coyote]

Which AMD server would you recommend? Genoa, EPYC, or EPYC Milan?

[finite hinge]

Whatever one has the highest singlecore performance

I don't know off the top of my head and you can Google just as well as I can 😄

[proper coyote]

Milan

[finite hinge]

You always want the highest singlecore perf, even with Folia

Folia just also wants a ton of cores so sometimes there is a tradeoff

[proper coyote]

okay

[proper coyote]

Well, then I should probably use Intel instead, right?

[inner swift]

Then you'll run into issues with E cores

[proper coyote]

Which do you recommend?

[viral coral]

don't try to use the google cloud trials

[proper coyote]

I need to try run it on a cloud, I know it isn't as good as a dedicated server

[viral coral]

google cloud's quotas aren't going to allow you to test it on any useful hardware

[finite hinge]

Really it means M3 Max 😄

[proper coyote]

what do you mean?

[finite hinge]

But the tradeoff with having more cores comes in to play here, by the time you get an Intel system with 16 cores their singlecore perf is going to be lower than a 7950

[proper coyote]

oh

yes...

[viral coral]

if you thought you could get some top of the line instance at google cloud with a free trial

not happening

https://cloud.google.com/docs/quota

any cloud platform has quotas, they are not going to be high for anyone that isn't paying a large sum of money

[proper coyote]

I'm going with C2D

[finite hinge]

iirc vCPUs means hyperthreading

So I think you need 32 of them?

[proper coyote]

I am willing to pay 2$ an hour

[viral coral]

google doesn't give a shit about $2/hr

[proper coyote]

oh

[viral coral]

especially considering that amount still falls under free trial credit

[finite hinge]

You'd need to go for the 112 vCPUs to avoid that, right?

Max out the box

[viral coral]

yes but again, quotas

shit defaults to like 4 vcpus on a c2d or something

[proper coyote]

💀

[finite hinge]

Oh, I thought you meant they were going to move you around

But yeah, you also have to talk to their sales folks to get past some speedbumps

Meant to avoid people getting surprise bills from scammers iirc

[proper coyote]

So will the quota not let me buy 2$/hour servers?

[fair merlin]

I don't want to be rude but - you should be asking Google these questions and not us, really.

[finite hinge]

$2/hour is $1440/mo, imagine someone stole your google login and that showed up on your credit card 😄

[viral coral]

you're also thinking google cloud is your ordinary server host, there are a lot more costs than just $2/hr, especially if you're going to do any meaningful testing

[proper coyote]

Everyone who is helping me if you don't want to, don't. If I am bothering you, just ignore me

[viral coral]

save yourself the hassle, look for an alternative

[fair merlin]

You have our recommendations for how it should be hosted, and we've said you should avoid GCP entirely. If you're getting a server you want to follow the guidelines set forth for Folia, but we can't hold your hand through the entire process.

[proper coyote]

I set a 50$ budget

[viral coral]

a budget does not limit anything

[proper coyote]

Okay, does anyone know where I can find a good cloud host?

[viral coral]

you should familiarize yourself with cloud platforms like GCP before you accidentally get a $3000 bill

[finite hinge]

All I know about cloud stuff is somehow it's complicated enough that people have entire jobs that are just "figure out what all this cloud shit is"

[viral coral]

which is very, very easy to do

[finite hinge]

Like, not as a consultant, a single company will have that guy

[livid crag]

We aint going to help someone who's obviously trying to abuse free credits and doing something as meaningless as trying to rent a cloud server that will burn through everything in a few days.

This channel is for those who need help with Folia not trying to figure on how to abuse the free credit system

[proper coyote]

I am not trying to use cloud credits, I am trying to find a reliable cloud server

[livid crag]

Poeple above you told you not to

[proper coyote]

I am so sorry, I do not mean to abuse the credit system

[livid crag]

Take the advice

[proper coyote]

do you know where I can find a reliable cloud server?

[livid crag]

For Folia, none.

[proper coyote]

I see

Okay

[fair merlin]

Nothing cheap. anyway.

[proper coyote]

I don't care if it's cheap

I will pay 3$ an hour if I need to

[fair merlin]

You said your budget was $50, that's cheap.

You'd have to pay a lot more than $3/hr. They just don't have services like that at that price point for the kind of CPUs you need.

[proper coyote]

oh

Oh well

[viral coral]

a high-end epyc milan processor will cost like $10k

try getting that down to $3/hr

[proper coyote]

What do you think I should do?

[viral coral]

if you can't afford to run folia

just don't

[proper coyote]

Well, I have a different question unrelated to Folia (don't answer if you don't want to obviously); Will cloud servers work well for a regular Minecraft server?

[fair merlin]

Not generally, no.

Minecraft wants fast CPUs and fast disks. Dedicated hardware is the best option.

For a small setup with a few people you can try it, but most people trying to use something like GCP for Minecraft are going to spend a lot more money for a lot less performance.

A dedicated server or a Minecraft-specific shared host is your best bet.

[proper coyote]

Even if I only use it for a couple hours a month?

[fair merlin]

How many hours isn't really relevant.

Slow is slow, for 30 minutes or 300 minutes.

[proper coyote]

yeah, okay

Any tips on how to fit as many players as possible onto my regular Minecraft server, then?

I guess I could just start charging them to raise money lol

[fair merlin]

Read optimization guides, optimise your setup, etc etc.

[proper coyote]

But then they would just leave smh

[fair merlin]

Those sorts of questions tend to come from people who haven't run large scale servers before. There's no "push this button" answer. It all depends on the setup and the server and gametype.

But non-Folia questions should go to #general or #paper-help if they're Paper related.

So if you're talking about general stuff you should move out of the Folia channel.

[proper coyote]

I am very inexperienced, but I am trying my best to learn. 😁

[proper coyote]

okay

[fair merlin]

Easiest way to learn is to start small and grow.

[proper coyote]

okay, thanks for all your help btw

[fair merlin]

Gotta learn to crawl before you run.

[proper coyote]

k, moving to general

[ionic wadi]

Hi is there a 1.20.4 Folia Version?

Sorry saw it

Have it

[junior osprey]

I have tested out using E-GUP's. The worse the cpu is all it means is the region won't be able to handle as much. I know because I have tested it out. Some other results I have found is using Folia vs Paper will feel the same at certain player counts like 15 players and lower on a AMD Ryzen 7 5800X with recommended thread count. I have hosted a server with 5GB on Paper vs Folia, and Folia handled 18 players flawlessly. Folia performs better once it goes past that player count, vs on Paper. While Paper has more stress on the main thread, it looks like Folia being multi-threaded won't have that issue. It also seems to be better using Folia if your plugins are extremely inefficient, because it is multi-threaded nature of Folia means it will have less stress overall vs Paper which will have all the stress on the main thread. Although assuming you can get a devopment team you can purge and create all the plugins you need. So if your players are spread out, have lots of ram, and will likely put a lot of stress on your server Folia would likely be the better choice. During my preliminary testing It looks like every 2 GB can add 10-20 more players, once you get past 5.

[lean tinsel]

not only one, but multiple. My current employeer has a few people dedicated only for optimizing our costs on AWS, we pay like ~500k$/month to AWS
besides that, every development team has to have at least one person that has a AWS dev/solution arhitect certification OR have at least one developer studying and take the exam

my suggestion to @proper coyote would be the same, stay away from cloud unless you know what you're doing, otherwise you may surprise yourself with a high unexpected bill. In the cloud, you don't only pay for the server, but you pay for bandwidth and other things too

also, if you're really set on the cloud and/or GCP, they must have have an offer for single-core CPU demanding apps like game servers. In AWS, the category for those servers is called Compute Optimized. Any big cloud provider would have an equivalent service offer as there are a lot of enterprise software that depends on single-core performance, not everything is built for multiple cores with low performance

but with the money you spend on a few hours or days of those servers running, for a MC server you'd better spend them on renting a dedicated server for the entire month

[fair merlin]

1.20.4 is the latest version.

If a plugin is failing to load either it doesn't support Folia or you're using the wrong version. Just like Paper, check the logs for errors.

Build a new version. 1.20.4 should be the main branch.

May need to checkout the 1.20.4 branch then.

It'll be a branch in the git repo, there's no link.

Make sure you have latest, change branches, rebuild.

I have no idea if that plugin supports Folia.

But basically you'd have to ask the plugin devs if their plugin supports Folia or not, and which versions.

I'm almost certain FAWE doesn't support Folia.

But again, you'd have to check with the people who make the plugins.

Most plugins don't support Folia.

Only if explicitly marked and built for Folia.

You can check Hangar and sort for Folia support.

Yeah that should tell you if a plugin supports it. Though not sure if they'd have a specific build for Folia, or which version works, or on which version of Folia it needs to be, etc etc

You generally want to be on the latest build of Folia due to active dev. So I'd probably start there.

The rest is a bit of trial and error.

You'd need to compile Folia again, yeah

You need to change branches.

If you don't know how to do that then you definitely should not be messing with Folia.

Because that's going to be the least of your problems.

No, it's on you to build Folia yourself. Like I said, if you can't build it correctly then you should not be using it.

[paper siren]

<@&748618676189528155>

[marsh maple]

(65a8e3eb42b7936e54a59ff5) // @half carbon (@itskarma24 / 710025775885189211) has been banned by @lone stratus (220060515337109504)
Reason: NSFW Spam

[viral stone]

filename too long

run the thing in a shorter folder, or see the issue tracker, there was instructions on how to let it use longer file names

[proper coyote]

I got a sponsor, so I can use dedicated server now

[arctic tapir]

do it directly in C

[bright bane]

Thanks, i will try it

[finite hinge]

apatch should only be needed if you're updating to a newer Paper upstream or doing your own fork and updating it with the latest Folia upstream

If a git clone then build results in something where you think you need apatch something is wrong

[proud marlin]

how do I add fake players to my server for testing?

[fair merlin]

This isn't really an effective way to test things. But I'm not sure if there's any bot plugins that support Folia.

[proud marlin]

I say adding players to know how much festivities will make a difference to the dedicated player compared to waterfall

[fair merlin]

Yeah bots aren't really an accurate representation of player behavior. So you can test a few things kinda but it's not a direct comparison.

[proud marlin]

wow, ty

[fair merlin]

Just worth noting.

Your server might be able to handle 600 bots but only like 200 real players.

[proud marlin]

just have some idea how it will act and compare it in TPS, CPU, RAM.. thank you very much for the help ❤️

[proud marlin]

would 2000 bots be a comparison to 500 players?

so for the server to act the same way as real players would need to leave some action?

a survival server is dependent on the world, but skyblock would be a void world... I needed to know a comparison like this.

thank you for your help and I apologize for being a bit innocent on this side.

[fair merlin]

It's okay, it's a common misconception. There just aren't any (public?) tools out there that accurately simulate real players. You can make estimates and guesses but be prepared for your simulations to not be reality.

Also be aware of the requirements of Folia in terms of skyblock/minigame servers/etc.

[urban delta]

Would folia still work with less threads?

I have a question

16 cores is a lot...

[viral stone]

Yes

[urban delta]

So it would basically just not allocate many regions right?

What if i have 4 threads

[viral stone]

the number of regions it allocates is irrelevant to your core count

the question is "can your CPU handle that many regions as the thing allocates are ticking"

[urban delta]

I see

Core is 2 threads right?

Or it depends on the CPU

[viral stone]

if you have hyper threading, yes

[urban delta]

Dont know whats that

My servers CPU is R7 5800X

just searched it up

its like vCores or what?

[viral stone]

hyperthreading is the tech which gives you 2 CPU threads from 1 CPU core

vCores literally just means CPU threads

[urban delta]

ah ok

thanks

[limber scaffold]

Hello

Best anti cheat for folia

Grim Anti cheat
Is kicking bedrock/pocket edition player

For no reason while they use trident 🔱 or even while teleporting ( /back or /home)

Mostly trident and elytra 🤔

[hexed ice]

the reason it kicks them is because grim doesn't support geyser

[limber scaffold]

It means no solution

[viral stone]

There is no good bedrock anti cheats

Best you can do is install floodgate and hope that the thing disables certain checks

[violet parcel]

Is it possible to run Folia on a Cluster?

[timid grotto]

you can run it on pretty much anything

doesnt mean you should or that it will run better than paper

[violet parcel]

So folia could utilize all the CPUs in the cluster?

[viral stone]

No, folia is not a clustered application

it's still a program designed to run a single instance of the software

[paper siren]

What Folia could utilize mainly depends on what the JVM supports

[violet parcel]

Ok thanks for the answers

[limber scaffold]

Anyone has know about dog big on folia server

Dropping item above dog of same name and then u left the left when u come both dog with same name has items

🤔

My server chat I got to know this

Same like donkey dupe but here no chest

[hexed ice]

what..?

[scenic sky]

i dont think dogs have any way of carrying items

[limber scaffold]

Let me try if I get a vedio

That also my question how dog can carry item
Dropping item on dog

[calm fable]

updated to 1.20.4, enabled rcon and im getting the following attempting to run commands via rcon ``````diff
! [Fri 18:34:15 WARN Minecraft] Unexpected exception while parsing console command "tps"
java.lang.UnsupportedOperationException: Dispatching command for org.bukkit.craftbukkit.v1_20_R3.command.CraftRemoteConsoleCommandSender@38c33e82
at org.bukkit.craftbukkit.v1_20_R3.CraftServer.dispatchCommand(CraftServer.java:1024)
at org.bukkit.craftbukkit.v1_20_R3.CraftServer.dispatchServerCommand(CraftServer.java:981)
at net.minecraft.server.dedicated.DedicatedServer.lambda$runCommand$4(DedicatedServer.java:791)
at java.base/java.util.concurrent.CompletableFuture$AsyncRun.run(CompletableFuture.java:1804)
at io.papermc.paper.threadedregions.RegionizedServer$GlobalTickTickHandle.runOneTask(RegionizedServer.java:162)
at io.papermc.paper.threadedregions.RegionizedServer$GlobalTickTickHandle.drainTasks(RegionizedServer.java:152)
at io.papermc.paper.threadedregions.RegionizedServer$GlobalTickTickHandle.tickRegion(RegionizedServer.java:147)
at io.papermc.paper.threadedregions.TickRegionScheduler$RegionScheduleHandle.runTick(TickRegionScheduler.java:404)
at ca.spottedleaf.concurrentutil.scheduler.SchedulerThreadPool$TickThreadRunner.run(SchedulerThreadPool.java:525)
at java.base/java.lang.Thread.run(Thread.java:840)
[Fri 18:34:15 INFO Server/RemoteControlSession] Thread RCON Client /192.168.0.100 shutting down

any idea how to fix?

[daring nimbus]

I remember Folia not supporting RCON at all

unless that has changed, Folia doesn't support rcon. considering rcon is inherently insecure and very limited, I would just recommend using a proper thing to manage the server

[viral stone]

that was apparently fixed

would need the full exception (and spotted, i'm dead)

[calm fable]

I want to use Rcon to gather information and run commands necessary as command blocks do not work. i was told rcon is now working so i figured id be able to use it to programmatically manipulate the server. it seems however its somewhat broken at least on my build

[viral stone]

it should work

it apparently failed

we need the full error to see why it failed

[calm fable]

how would i get you that?

do i have to restart the server in debug mode?

[calm fable]

java.lang.UnsupportedOperationException: Dispatching command for org.bukkit.craftbukkit.v1_20_R3.command.CraftRemoteConsoleCommandSender@d12711e
    at org.bukkit.craftbukkit.v1_20_R3.CraftServer.dispatchCommand(CraftServer.java:1024) ~[folia-1.20.4.jar:git-Folia-"4d78338"]
    at org.bukkit.craftbukkit.v1_20_R3.CraftServer.dispatchServerCommand(CraftServer.java:981) ~[folia-1.20.4.jar:git-Folia-"4d78338"]
    at net.minecraft.server.dedicated.DedicatedServer.lambda$runCommand$4(DedicatedServer.java:791) ~[folia-1.20.4.jar:git-Folia-"4d78338"]
    at java.util.concurrent.CompletableFuture$AsyncRun.run(CompletableFuture.java:1804) ~[?:?]
    at io.papermc.paper.threadedregions.RegionizedServer$GlobalTickTickHandle.runOneTask(RegionizedServer.java:162) ~[folia-1.20.4.jar:git-Folia-"4d78338"]
    at io.papermc.paper.threadedregions.RegionizedServer$GlobalTickTickHandle.drainTasks(RegionizedServer.java:152) ~[folia-1.20.4.jar:git-Folia-"4d78338"]
    at io.papermc.paper.threadedregions.RegionizedServer$GlobalTickTickHandle.tickRegion(RegionizedServer.java:147) ~[folia-1.20.4.jar:git-Folia-"4d78338"]
    at io.papermc.paper.threadedregions.TickRegionScheduler$RegionScheduleHandle.runTick(TickRegionScheduler.java:404) ~[folia-1.20.4.jar:git-Folia-"4d78338"]
    at ca.spottedleaf.concurrentutil.scheduler.SchedulerThreadPool$TickThreadRunner.run(SchedulerThreadPool.java:525) ~[folia-1.20.4.jar:git-Folia-"4d78338"]
    at java.lang.Thread.run(Thread.java:840) ~[?:?]
[18:33:38] [RCON Client /192.168.0.100 #2/INFO]: Thread RCON Client /192.168.0.100 shutting down
``` thats all i get , am i missing something?

[viral stone]

it's missing the actual cause

[calm fable]

i mean thats it from beginning to end

[viral stone]

java has probably supressed it

there was a JVM argument to tell it not to do that

I am however dead

[arctic tapir]

-XX:-OmitStackTraceInFastThrow

[paper siren]

https://github.com/PaperMC/Folia/blob/master/patches/server/0003-Threaded-Regions.patch#L21722-L21741 not sure if it's just missing proper handling here

[viral stone]

In my defence

I really needed a nap all day

[calm fable]

i mean heres my start script ```java -Xms32G -Xmx50G -XX:ConcGCThreads=16 -XX:+UseG1GC -XX:+ParallelRefProcEnabled -XX:MaxGCPauseMillis=200 -XX:+UnlockExperimentalVMOptions -XX:+DisableExplicitGC -XX:+AlwaysPreTouch -XX:G1NewSizePercent=40 -XX:G1MaxNewSizePercent=50 -XX:G1HeapRegionSize=16M -XX:G1ReservePercent=15 -XX:G1HeapWastePercent=5 -XX:G1MixedGCCountTarget=4 -XX:InitiatingHeapOccupancyPercent=20 -XX:G1MixedGCLiveThresholdPercent=90 -XX:G1RSetUpdatingPauseTimePercent=5 -XX:SurvivorRatio=32 -XX:+PerfDisableSharedMem -XX:MaxTenuringThreshold=1 -Dusing.aikars.flags=https://mcflags.emc.gs -Daikars.new.flags=true -jar server.jar

[viral stone]

startup is irrelevant

i misread the error

[calm fable]

I know you are in need of sleep so i dont want to stress you but what can i do to give you what you need for this. so that when you are feeling it, its easiest for you?

[viral stone]

open an issue on the github

[calm fable]

sounds good

[fair merlin]

I would also not put a lot of weight on rcon, personally. Leaf made some changes to fix some support for it but it's pretty low priority in general, so if there's an error or a weird edge case it might be a long time before it gets fixed. Just setting expectations in terms of priorities.

[calm fable]

https://github.com/PaperMC/Folia/issues/183 issue opened, if i can provide more information I would be happy to do so

i understand that there isnt a high priority on this, its just that at this time without command blocks and rcon theres no real way to run commands on a server unattented unless you want to do it via discord, which is insane quite frankly

we dont have 100's of players yet but the server gets pretty busy and we like not having to nerf everything on the server and get a decent playing experience and folia seems to be the only way of doing that.

so on behalf of everyone on solarian mc, we appreciate your efforts 😄

[fair merlin]

You could write a custom plugin for commands or something. But yeah, some stuff is still in development.

A big part of why we don't have public builds yet :)

[calm fable]

i totally get it, who needs that headache until something is "ready" but i figured If i cant help by being a dev, i can at least help by being a testbed

[fair merlin]

Oh for sure, we definitely appreciate the bug reports, stack traces, issues, etc etc.

[fair merlin]

A fake region?

[fair merlin]

What?

Ah the person deleted their messages.

They were asking about something for timers

[calm fable]

i realized my question kinda goes against the spirit of folia

so i deleted it

i was asking if for stuff like command blocks, if there could be a fake region from which they could be executed

as i know that command blocks dont exactly work right now

[vale sable]

Does anyone know more about this? It seems that most folia supported worldedit cannot be built.

[pseudo ibex]

Would you like a WorldGuard and WorldEdit fork that can be built? The one's I have can be build.

[vale sable]

Can you tell me how to build it? Even if the version is updated, it is meaningless if I don't know how to do it.

Can't I simply run ./gradlew clean build after git clone?

[pseudo ibex]

If you do here you go ( https://github.com/Folia-Inquisitors/WorldEdit-Folia.git ) and ( https://github.com/Folia-Inquisitors/WorldGuard-Folia ). In order to build you can look in the COMPILING.md. If you read that it says you need to do gradlew build on PowerShell or ./gradlew build on Linux/Ubuntu.

[vale sable]

mm not a cmd?

[pseudo ibex]

cmd?

[vale sable]

cmd can gradlew clean build

[pseudo ibex]

oh maybe idk I use Ubuntu.

Try and see

[vale sable]

✅

[pseudo ibex]

Happy to have helped

[vale sable]

I think there's something wrong with me

[vale sable]

nvm I solved

👍

[urban delta]

what a nice amount of ram

[viral stone]

if ya got 'em, smoke 'em

[urban delta]

I wonder can gc keep up that much ram

[fair merlin]

It did on our test.

With even more RAM allocated.

[paper siren]

but the test used generational shenandoah, g1 doesn't scale that well with larger heap size

[urban delta]

yeah thats what I mean

g1 doesnt work well with that much ram

[primal oyster]

you can

but you'll likely need other approaches

[urban delta]

g1gc

are you sure about that

[primal oyster]

no, not g1gc

technically it can too

[urban delta]

Ah ok

I use generational zgc

[primal oyster]

but zgc is yea

[urban delta]

What do you use on donut

[primal oyster]

g1

[urban delta]

ah ok

its folia now right ??

orrr what

[primal oyster]

we added folia like

[urban delta]

still multi-instancing?

[primal oyster]

3 days ago

[urban delta]

oh nice

[primal oyster]

but it's with sharding too

[urban delta]

I see

I wonder how many boxes you used

before

and now

[primal oyster]

unfortunately

not much of a cut

disk size is still an issue XD

[urban delta]

ah ok

damn

you guys use ovh right?

[primal oyster]

no

[urban delta]

someone said you use ovh

[primal oyster]

we left em

[urban delta]

ahh

why tho

[primal oyster]

7950x

[urban delta]

makes sense

[primal oyster]

and they tried to force us into staying on our host "commitment" for another 6 months

[urban delta]

Lmao

[primal oyster]

bloom is pretty good

[urban delta]

Why would they even add the commitment stuff

no one is following it

[primal oyster]

ovh is sketchy

[urban delta]

and not like theyre gonna sue you or smth

[primal oyster]

they auto renew your commit automatically

but if you want to cancel it

you have to manually message them

you can't cancel it by yourself

[urban delta]

Crazy

What hosting do you use now?

[primal oyster]

.

[urban delta]

ohh

yeah they sell dedis now

[primal oyster]

long time ago already

we've been with them for a year

[urban delta]

Nice

[primal oyster]

we were using Cosmic Guard with GSK hosting

[urban delta]

theyre mostly known as a panel host

not dedis

[primal oyster]

but after having 25% packet loss around almost every day or so

we decided to switch

💀

[urban delta]

tcpshield now?

[primal oyster]

neo

[urban delta]

neo? whats that

[primal oyster]

neoprotect

[urban delta]

never heard of it

[primal oyster]

we used tpcshield when we got the 8.6k, but GSL does not seem to work well with UDP to OVH or so, i'm not fully sure either all I know is we used to drop 100 bedrock every now and then so we left because of it

neo is pretty good, DP network

just like bloom 🙂

[urban delta]

I see

oh you guys even have bedrock crossplay

how many are on bedrock

prob not that much

[primal oyster]

right now

let me see

447 on

[urban delta]

out of like

5k right?

[primal oyster]

1.9k java

[urban delta]

oh i see

[primal oyster]

no we have 2.4k on

[urban delta]

Ngl i always thought you guys were spoofing player count 🤣

1k+ is crazy for a survival server

[urban delta]

damnn

[primal oyster]

i think the folia implementation is noticeable

[urban delta]

you guys added naw but not asia....

😭

[primal oyster]

its on the plans

[urban delta]

Nice

Just a weird decision to add west first

Small region

[primal oyster]

not here

[urban delta]

Oh i see

in general in pvp asia is a bigger region

[primal oyster]

its just a bit harder to handle asia

when every single cost is pretty much 2x of what it is on NA

[urban delta]

bloom doesnt have asia for dedis right?

Ye thats right

[primal oyster]

yes butt a single 7950x would cost us $2000/mo

$500/50mbps

[urban delta]

wtf

[primal oyster]

cloudflare

;O

[urban delta]

is this like average mspt per box?

[primal oyster]

no thats the grpah of the entire regions

[urban delta]

how does it calculate folia mspt then wtf

Oh

[primal oyster]

average mspt on total of regions

[urban delta]

i see

the things u guys r doing are crazy

first survival server with 1k+ players

[primal oyster]

yeah its nice

Folia is the combo tho

Folia with sharding it's like

the best chips with the best beer with the best wagyu burguer

XD

[urban delta]

crazy

and it still uses your custom format?

For worlds

I saw your github

beeformat

[primal oyster]

thats just parallel processing for slime worlds

we dont use that

[urban delta]

oh ok

[primal oyster]

that was a thing i wrote for a plan of 1.20 skyblock

but we diped that