Please update the movement physics to match those used in RC2

[cinder creek]

The movement physics in the new game feel super inconsistent and kind of frustrating. You accelerate way too fast when going downhill, and sometimes when you jump, you just randomly lose all your momentum. It makes things feel really clunky — like your input doesn’t match what your character actually does. I’ve had a bunch of deaths that didn’t feel like my fault, just because the movement did something weird or unexpected. Honestly, it feels buggy at times. The physics in RC2 were way more predictable and responsive. This version makes it hard to feel in control.

The vertical bobbing effect is also disorienting. I think the horizontal bobbing effect in RC2 is also a lot more superior. I am also aware that some of the physics mechanics was implemented to prevent air strafing. That can easy be achieved by reducing the distance you jump when running. I will post some more examples that demonstrate the differences in both games.

[barren geyser]

Also like to state, the base speed of the SMGs is fine, don't need to reduce that, it's the ability to jump spam to mach 4 that is a problem 😅

[cinder creek]

Yea. Mobility is fine for SMGs. It's just the physics

[gleaming swift]

We'll look into the character movement/physics. In WTC, the movement is much simpler while in the Playtest, it may be too realistic for the intended audience. Also, the head/camera movement is a separate issue that is unrelated to the character physics.

As for the stairs, in WTC, the movement is actually slowed quite a bit when going up/down stairs. In the playtest, the speed is more constant. It's just a scale factor that we can easily adjust for going up or down stairs. If we want slower movement up/down stairs, we can definitely make it a bit slower.

[gleaming swift]

We found the reason for the change in speed when landing. The jump ability was overriding the sprint ability so when you land, your speed is momentarily set to the walk speed.

We applied a momentum when landing to compensate for this slow down, but that caused acceleration in specific circumstances. Now we can remove this drag and movement should be consistent after landing.

[cinder creek]

no need for realism. RC was never realistic and that's why people like it. I can understand game design choices like reducing strafing but things like physics based movement is not a common feature in fps games for a reason.

[gleaming swift]

Will have a build shortly for testing.

[gleaming swift]

The build is up with the improved character movements. Please let us know if this addresses the issues:

• Reduced speed going up/down slopes by 20%
• Instant acceleration/deceleration
• Removed momentum after landing from a fall/jump which may cause acceleration
• Fixed: Jump ability no longer overrides Sprint; causing a slowdown when landing

[gleaming swift]

We were able to port the WTC character movement to the playtest, but after the above changes, I don't see much difference between the two. We added the build to a separate branch "wtc_movement" on Steam. Please test the two and see which you prefer.

[barren geyser]

feels more like rc2

@gleaming swift are you able to change some WTC weapon speeds so I can compare the mobilities?

the jumps feel longer in wtc

but no strafeing like this build

[cinder creek]

the movement feels better

[gleaming swift]

Which builds feels better?

[barren geyser]

the wtc_movement

[cinder creek]

yes

[barren geyser]

input feels really direct

[cinder creek]

the vertical bobbing is still there but like you said, it is unrelated

[gleaming swift]

Okay. The speed values and jump height is still from playtest, but the physics that moves the character are different.

[barren geyser]

its much better

[gleaming swift]

The main difference is gravity & stair climbing. The code is actually very similar now.

The head bopping/movement can be addressed separately.

[cinder creek]

I'm 100% certain this was the change as lot of people complaining about movement was talking about. Just took a while to figure out what was the cause

[gleaming swift]

Was it the bug with the jump ability overriding the sprint speed? After fixing that, even the playtest movement seems better.

[barren geyser]

the strafe speed will be awesome for killing campers

[cinder creek]

yea

[cinder creek]

Seems to be

i don't see a reduction in speed anymore

[gleaming swift]

You can provide the stats you want for specific guns?

[gleaming swift]

Yeah, and plus movement should be instant now. There was a small acceleration to get to full speed. I'm not sure if WTC was instant or not.

[cinder creek]

wtc is definitely instant

i noticed that WTC also has a yellow filter that makes everything looks yellow

and WTPT has a blue filter

[barren geyser]

Jump height needs to be raised, still cannot get onto the barrels in basecamp

[cinder creek]

I think he said he will be adding vaulting on the road map

[gleaming swift]

Great! I verified that speed remains the same upon landing. There's no slow down at all.

[barren geyser]

vaulting for like walls yeah

[gleaming swift]

I think vaulting is better than allowing players to bunny hop all over the place.

[cinder creek]

There are some other movement related things that need tweaks but this is a massive step in the right direction. I wish we were able to test it in the playtest

[barren geyser]

things like jumping over the barriers in kiev or jumping onto the plane wings should be able to be done with jumping

[gleaming swift]

Vault/climbing should be able to accomplish this.

When you jump onto objects, the player should be able to grab onto the ledge and then climb on top.

[barren geyser]

yeah but will that slow me down?

[cinder creek]

depends how it is implemented. In some cases, it could be faster

some games have a guns up method that still allow you to use your gun as you vault

[barren geyser]

I want to be able to shoot while jumping onto the kiev plane wings

[cinder creek]

won't be an issue if it is implemented like this

[gleaming swift]

We will take note of this when we get to implementing it. Now that we have the new procedural animation system in place, we could dynamically control the off hand to do the climbing.

[prisma wind]

If the sun were to be a light yellow color and a yellow filter, just like in the WTC. I approve this WTPT is very blue and white colored

[prisma wind]

.

[gleaming swift]

There are no filters in WTC. It's yellow because of the textures and basic lighting system.The blue color is light from the environment known as "Global Illumination" which is a standard in modern game engines.

[prisma wind]

WATP red dawn map, sun temperature color and being a little bit lower is good in my opinion compared to other maps

[cinder creek]

agreed. It looks a lot better with that yellow filter. it makes textures pop

[cinder creek]

the basic lighting system ironically looks better than the global illumination.

[prisma wind]

WT3 sand storm and A7 have a good atmosphere and the sun wandering around adds a different beauty

[gleaming swift]

Only to players who loved "RC2". WTC players will not be the main drivers for this game.

[cinder creek]

a lot of people are going to be drawn to the new game because of RC2

[gleaming swift]

The data shows the opposite--most of the negative feedback is coming from that group. While a few players have been supportive, the overall sentiment has been largely critical, with many expressing that they only want the game to be exactly as it was.

[cinder creek]

to be exactly like rc2?

[gleaming swift]

Every other comment is "bring back rc2" 🙂

[cinder creek]

can't blame them tho. The only thing RC2 improved was graphics and it wasn't worth it because almost every aspect of the game became worse. The game became more pay to win, maps became worse and crowded, War chest were added

I completely gave up on it after playing the open beta. A lot of people still have PTSD

someone actually unfortunately got hold of my account and deleted almost all my premium guns. I dealth with the same person in RC2 and he even told me how he was able to get a hold of my acocunt the first time. I still have the screenshot of the message he sent

The initial footage we saw of RCF was promising but by the time we got to play the game, it was very different from what we were shown. Eduardo posted the videos of all pre alpha footage i am talking about in the discussion

[barren geyser]

As long as the movement is not like wt3 🙏

[gleaming swift]

You mean for RCF? I’m really sorry to hear all of that and we understand how frustrating it must have been.

That’s exactly why we’re focused on building a game that’s fair, balanced, and for an audience that wants to play our game. Some of these players will never accept the new game and are happy to play a pay-2-win game even if it seems unfair. They do not represent the majority.

[cinder creek]

Started in RC2, then I got access to my account back. I have multiple emails with Scott (the old community manager) trying to convince him my account was breached but he didn't help much

[gleaming swift]

Yeah, I'm not sure. Support will usually try to solve the issue. These things happen all the time and we have to verify ownership.

[cinder creek]

scott ignored me for months

[gleaming swift]

Sorry to hear that. You would not believe the amount of scamming and scheming that goes on unless you're a MOD or a Dev.

[cinder creek]

I do understand. I brought it back up with support after i saw a lot of missing guns in RCF and they gave me 5k coins but that is no where near what I spent on guns when I was playing RC2

[gleaming swift]

This is an issue with many game developers. Many of which don't even have a way of contacting them for support.

[cinder creek]

but aside from that, there was a stage of RCFs development with a design style that looked made RCF look like a true sequel to RC2

most of the videos have very bad quality

[gleaming swift]

I think due to performance problems, most of that got changed. It was not well optimized for the hardware at the time.

[cinder creek]

hope you guys kept backups

[gleaming swift]

It's there somewhere, but not being able to run Unity 4 makes it really hard to find things.

[cinder creek]

ahh

i thought it was just as simple as importing the models

[gleaming swift]

No, the models don't contain any information except textures and polygons. All that color, mood, and lighting is not part of the model.

[cinder creek]

that's a bummer cuz 3d modeling is very hard

[gleaming swift]

It might become a lost art soon. Game development is even harder 🙂

[barren geyser]

That's because everyone who played RC2 has bad PC's, so being able to play and record rcf at the same time was a challenge

[cinder creek]

no. I was talking about the alpha footage RGS released at the time

someone posted them on this discord

[gleaming swift]

Much of it was due to lighting and color correction. We can try some adjustments during beta.

[wanton pilot]

The WTC movement is the best, very successful

[cinder creek]

@barren geyser This is the footage i am talking about

[gleaming swift]

Also, keep in mind that these videos are low quality and our mind tends to fill in the gap making them look better than it really was.

The lighting was very dark. Graphics always look better darker because they hide imperfections, but it wasn't practical since it affected gameplay greatly.

[cinder creek]

only red dawn looks dark to me and that's not a bad thing cuz it is called Red Dawn

I don't think The old RGS ever released a single alpha footage that had good quality

[gleaming swift]

It was definitely more detailed. The textures were higher quality & the environment had more details. I'm not denying that. We had to scale back quite a bit to get acceptable performance. The darker tones & lower quality videos still did hide a lot of imperfections.

[cinder creek]

Too bad that can't be ported to unity 5. I think that version of kiev alone looks better than anything we have seen in RCF

[gleaming swift]

We used procederally generated textures for some of the normal & spec maps which looked great, but they came with a cost: very long load times and high memory usage.

We can try digging some of this up when we go through the beauty pass.

[cinder creek]

That would be lovely

Are those from the tech demo?

[barren geyser]

I remember beta wt3 Kiev looking amazing

And the smokes

https://youtu.be/0Bkl8qrtZtk?si=0Q6DkqyCwTOu2RVV

This map has so much more cover for blue side

[wanton pilot]

I love this reaper sound

[cinder creek]

looks like the one from the alpha footage

[barren geyser]

that is beta footage

[cinder creek]

ik. It looks like this one

[cinder creek]

I noticed that the horizontal bobbing is back 👀

i think you should keep the vertical bobbing but only when players jump from a high level

[gleaming swift]

since when?

[cinder creek]

hope it is noticeable

The screne is moving from side to side

[gleaming swift]

Oh. The camera swaying? That’s been there for a while.