Traps are sprung and old enemies unite as the Doctor and Belinda finally arrive home to find a very different world. Can the Doctor see the truth before midnight arrives?
#Doctor Who S15E07 - Wish World
indigo island
next igloo
Mark of the Rani is up in full on the youtube channel for US viewers, if anyone there was curious to check it out before this episode https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e7rRwEjX6Vk
indigo island
sudden tundra
Huh
acoustic sigil
When you Wish upon a World...
drowsy minnow
It was 1865.
timid tinsel
Russell T Davies knows writers who use Subtext and he calls them Conrad. Absurd episode, but I loved that. Great world building in the broadest and smallest ways, some incredible set design and a wonderful little bit of meta exposition at the end there.
timid tinsel
RTD did keep telling us we were dealing with gods and the underverse
We just weren't understanding what that meant
Also The Rani was talking about dancing with The Fugitive Doctor, right?
acoustic sigil
I'm gonna say it... Omega - oMehga.
indigo island
neat episode
floral jolt
ROGUE
MY BOY
Omega is the one from Three Doctors right?
Ncuti describing his time temping: productivity was low but I was having a great time
acoustic sigil
Three Doctors and Arc of Infinity
acoustic sigil
floral jolt
Well Unleashed was fun too aaaaaaaaand back to the bus
If it wasn’t for bus I’d be rewatching the Rogue scene over and over and also rewatching the episode Rogue 😂
Sweet precious boy he’s ALIVE and bringing the Doctor back to reality via the power of gay yearning
well, alive FOR NOW
pls no slide into pit pls
Also someone in #doctor-who like just watched The Three Doctors so that’s going to be hilarious timing for them
floral jolt
listen here you little shit you're the one that had AN IDEA
narrow vigil
i don't think any of use had omega on their bingo cards
floral jolt
maybe Russell is also doing a Classics watch-through and just grabbing ideas as he goes by 😂
narrow vigil
i wonder how the rtd is planning to reconcile tecteun creating time lord biology with omega being the first time lord
floral jolt
I feel like that must be on purpose somehow
he's mentioned Timeless Child too much for him to just blank it now
narrow vigil
but also i love love love that the book conrad is reading from to sustain his evil world of conservative and repressive social mores is made to look like a harry potter cover
merry mirage
Well that was ridiculous, not sure I liked it.
I love the idea of everyone being trapped in that fictional world and the idea of the Slip, but the wishing baby was too silly for me, and the Rani's plot to make a whole fictional world just to destroy it, just to make the Doctor doubt, just to rip open reality, just to find Omega... that's so absurdly convoluted, doesn't work for me at all.
narrow vigil
the wish world might have been fun to spend more time in, and i can't pretend like it isn't just a series of excuses to get to the exposition for the real finale, but i had fun
merry mirage
Ironically my main emotion throughout that episode was doubt.
timid tinsel
oh wait, the baby and the harry potter reference are linked and I didn't get it till just now. the seventh son thing is how you get wizards
narrow vigil
i didn't think the baby was connected to harry potter
timid tinsel
No I know that, but putting the two things in literal proximity
narrow vigil
(and harry potter isn't a seventh son he's an only child)
timid tinsel
Wizard Child and pastiche of a wizard child
narrow vigil
but specifically the harry potter cover parody to me read as an intentional stab at jk by rtd
indigo island
seventh son of seventh son is a wizard (or eighth son of eighth son in Discworld)
narrow vigil
in that of course her aesthetics are used by a villainous repressive anti-woke monster
timid tinsel
I think the spelling out of the "he can't see us" part was blunt but probably necessary
merry mirage
Something else I just noticed, the Doctor Who book Conrad is reading is written by I.M. Foreman
https://tardis.fandom.com/wiki/I.M._Foreman
timid tinsel
I'm assuming that might link back to Susan in the finale
narrow vigil
also more playing with the lineup, no richard e., removing 14 and replacing him with fugitive
azure siren
14 was right after Fugitive
indigo island
the Doctor did say that she is his actual daughter
indigo island
"I have a daughter, Poppy is real! Don't you know what that means?!"
while falling from the bone palace
timid tinsel
Yeah, I think there's a few ways that could go
The fact poppy was taken from the future is weird
azure siren
If Georgia Tennant shows up by surprise next week, I'll be very happy
narrow vigil
i feels like the payoff to that is "she is my daughter because i love her as my daughter and that's what makes family, not blood"
timid tinsel
I knew he'd used that word
"We're not your mummy and daddy, I wish we were, but we're not"
timid tinsel
Space Babies Vital To The Arc
narrow vigil
it plays into ruby's story, shows the doctor reconciling with the timeless child reveal, breaks with conrad's tradwife family unit mentality, and gives a nice wholesome uplifting family message
floral jolt
oh my GOD
timid tinsel
I'm not saying it's been fully planned out from the start, but I do know there's an interview with Moffat where he says:
I have not read Kate [Herron] and Briony [Redman]’s script [episode six, Rogue], and I have not read the finale [The Legend Of Ruby Sunday and Empire of Death, both written by Russell]. Although, bizarrely enough, I have read the finale of the following season – for reasons that will become apparent… he said cryptically!
Which to me suggests RTD is backfilling
floral jolt
so the... time hotel could come up? there have been random dinos walking around
maybe Anita?
narrow vigil
the starting in a different era for a cold open elsewhere in the world thing is also a very moffat or chibnall thing to do
floral jolt
the fact she's called Anita continues to jump out at me
timid tinsel
Ta Rani
narrow vigil
rtd2 does feel a lot like he's looking over all the funs tricks and toys the other two introduced and is loading his plate with them
timid tinsel
We'll find an R somewhere
timid tinsel
But yeah, I think this is RTD trying his hand at a particularly moffat style overall plot across two seasons, where certain things will make way more sense by the end
merry mirage
Now going down the research rabbit hole: The wishing child is named Desiderium which the Rani says is the god of wishes. Strictly speaking "desiderium" means "to long for that which is lost", not to make a wish. I assume though this is just RTD taking liberties with the meaning and not a plot point but you never know, maybe the Rani lost Omega and longs to bring him back? probably not.
floral jolt
didn't she keep calling him the one that was lost or something?
timid tinsel
There's multiple thematic character layers to that too
narrow vigil
and we also have the doctor longing for susan, whomst he's lost (track of)
timid tinsel
Am now tempted to scrub through every episode and work out how many times someone has said the words wish
floral jolt
and we also have the doctor longing for susan, whomst he's lost (track of)
and indeed Rogue
floral jolt
but specifically the harry potter cover parody to me read as an intentional stab...
I have become obsessed with this like LOOK
amazing
what a move Russell and/or designers
RTD2 continues to knock it out of the park with book references (this is from Church on Ruby Road)
high solar
I like how this episode used the plot dump as an actual plot point
Also what he meant by Poppy is real did he mean Susan’s parents?
Good episode
Not sure how to feel about Omega, how important is he like what is his story?
narrow vigil
He was the villain of the three doctors story
high solar
Also Rogue is back lets goooo
narrow vigil
Basically he was a co-founder of time lord society who invented their time travel technology but there was an accident that saw him lost in an antimatter universe that he's been trapped in unable to leave ever since
high solar
Ic gotcha ty
indigo island
there will be probably an Omega primer on the YT channel just like they had with The Rani
azure siren
Also what he meant by Poppy is real did he mean Susan’s parents?
Poppy is the Captain of the Space Babies
true estuary
Can't say I particularly enjoyed this one
The rest of the season has been quite good
But this felt super contrived and short of time
I hope the next episode is a return to form
I guess the Rani is trying to resurrect galifrey then
I can't think of much else to want Omega for
Return galifrey and have the time lords enforce order back on the universe to get the gods out
potent ivy
wait, 7th son of the 7th son? are we about to have the Thunderbolt show up?
narrow vigil
omega's a lost scientific pioneer, one who is enmeshed with a completely different universe, an amoral scientist like the rani could have a lot of reasons for wanting him back
potent ivy
huh, apparently I watched the Three Doctors at the right point
this does fit for Conrad's world but thematically I almost feel like what's his name from Belinda World might actually have fit better into the slot of creating this wish world.
and again Ncuti looks good in every outfit
yeah this episode isn't much on its own. it's pretty much pure buildup.
I really appreciate tying together so many threads from the past couple seasons. I was actually wondering if it possibly meant Omega. I like, just watched the Three Doctors in my working through of the classic series
just due to the nature of the scenario I think we all know to expect the reset button at the end of this right?
do we know if Ncuti is getting a season 3 yet?
rough temple
I wonder if the Rani is planning on reviving Gallifrey using Omega
potent ivy
I wish they would. there's a lot they can do storywise with them. Yes people love to say they were boring before but you know what, this is a new era and they've been gone for 20 years now. They can be different, lets try it
rough temple
Perhaps Omega is also now part of the pantheon like sutekh?
potent ivy
I feel like that might be the case. He was pretty godlike already in his own area
google tells me they've explicitly said they aren't commenting on season 3 until season 2 ends
I guess they want to maintain some mystery
rough temple
They reintroduced Rogue and Susan so they definitely have future ideas
potent ivy
I defintely get the feel that Rogue is Jack 2.0 had some of the Jack sassiness to him in this episode
rough temple
Yeah, I like Rogue especially since they can't bring back Jack
Really like that they are bringing season 1 stuff back. Rogue, Poppy, 73 yards
floral jolt
huh, apparently I watched the Three Doctors at the right point
I was just thinking that 😂
rough temple
I will say, partway through The Ranis exposition the main thought in my head was "this feels very much like John Simm's master" 🤣
potent ivy
though they kept pronouncing it Ah-mega in that
rough temple
Running around, dancing, explaining the plan to break the doctor, enjoying the whole thing
potent ivy
has their own screwdriver, setting up headquarters high above the surface
keeping the doctor in a metaphorical cage
rough temple
Bringing children from the future as part of a world ending scheme...
jaunty phoenix
Chewing the scenery like a Christmas ham...
frank cove
Maybe it's just the Baby, the Bootstrap, the Alternate Earth, and a cruel woman in a leather coat contriving to convolute everything together... but this felt like a Moffat finale. Is River Song mixed up in there somewhere?
rough temple
On the topic of the doctors wife is 15 gay or bi? I've had in my head that he is bi given the doctors long history but the 15th doctor on numerous occasions has been shown to be very gay
Heck with the wish world having him in a straight relationship it made things even more doubtful
indigo island
I don't think the Doctor thinks on this - they love or are interested in a person, regardless of species, gender or anything.
Even more in current era
rough temple
Fair though I know in the 50th specials 14 and Donna chat a little about the doctor realizing he likes guys now
narrow vigil
i think that the doctor as a single entity is bi but leans towards women, but the exact mix is a lil different for every doctor
frank cove
In this 1950s-ish conservative society, it would be common for a gay man to marry a woman, in order to pass as conforming. Also, an unmarried woman traveling alone with a man would be "immoral" to such people, so they "must" be married. 😑
narrow vigil
i think conrad has likely straight-washed the whole world
next igloo
i think that the doctor as a single entity is bi but leans towards women, but th...
yeah I definitely get the impression 15 in particular leans a little further towards the gay side than most incarnations
(given that just about all the open flirting we've seen was with men)
rough temple
Trying to remember if the hotel lady year was completely platonic
I feel like it was but I dont remember
indigo island
reminder that the Doctor is very much not human, and (depending on incarnation) very much doesn't think in human terms about these kind of stuff - see Matt Smith, Capaldi, or even Whitaker
they all needed to be reminded that they are around humans with feelings
rough temple
Yes but it's also a show made on earth. Even if the doctor is beyond gender and sexuality there is still earth and show context as well as the fact that things need to be communicated with the audience
So we get scenes in the 50th about the doctor saying he uses he/him pronouns and his chat with Donna about realizing he likes men
Which are important
indigo island
and that is what they are communicating - that the Doctor is beyond all this, and loves people for who they are, and not for what they are
bitter oracle
To me Ncuti's Doctor is gay-coded.
potent ivy
and not exactly subtle about it
rough temple
and _that_ is what they are communicating - that the Doctor is beyond all this, ...
I feel that's what they're working towards
bitter oracle
I'm glad for Rogue as a character, because it shows RTD is able to write diverse-er gay-coded characters now.
potent ivy
I read Doctors 9,10 and 12 as just not really having the emotional bandwidth to deal with that kind of thing except in the rare case where someone intrigued them intellectually.
11 I find hard to nail down. He does engage with it a bit but in a more childish way at times.
I don't think he's really been with any of the new companions viewing it as more friend or mentor relationship usually
indigo island
11 has a 'backlash' after 10 getting very humanly falling in love
but then he meets River (again)
11 and 12's (on screen) romance is filled with River
rough temple
10 was running all over
potent ivy
I've always been a little bothered by the heteronormativity of having the first thing Missy does is kiss the Doctor
rough temple
The classic "I snogged Madame De Pompadour"
potent ivy
yeah one of the cases where he was intrigued intellectually
rough temple
They joked about the Master being gay in the past with the whole thing about doctors finding that John Simms master having a wife was the most odd thing
And the beard jokes
potent ivy
is this the first time we got a pantheon member without a harbinger?
setting aside omega there is the wish baby
indigo island
he did the little laugh 🙂
narrow vigil
i don't think lux had a harbinger
rough temple
The mother possibly?
rough temple
i don't think lux had a harbinger
The theater
next igloo
is this the first time we got a pantheon member without a harbinger?
perhaps the family's surname was Binger so his father was Herr Binger
blazing helm
finished the episode, I think it might work if you watched the two parts back to back but as a stand alone, it's all build up for not release.
indigo island
they were called Otto and Violett Zufall
next igloo
oh right yeah they do give the surname in the episode
potent ivy
oh wait I know
next igloo
(and probably also the credits)
potent ivy
the kids were named Henry, Aaron, Richard, Ben, Isaac, Nate, Greg.....
indigo island
Zufall is "chance" or "accident"
next igloo
appropriate enough I guess
rough temple
This god also just kinda...happened and from mortal parents no less
The rest have been a lot more primordial
indigo island
that's the fairytale/legend of the seventh son of a seventh son (of a seventh son)
rough temple
Im imagining Mrs Flood just spending years upon years doing research to find someone who qualifies 🤣
next igloo
yeah, in the current superstitions-matter universe a 7th son of a 7th son of a 7th son is a fairly reasonable way for a god to enter the universe
potent ivy
it's very much a folklore thing, heck it relates to a couple DC Comics characters, Johnny Thunder and Jakeem Thunder
indigo island
it's a much-used folklore trope
potent ivy
they get guadianship of a wish granting Djinn from the fifth dimension
narrow vigil
and the discworld book sourcery references it
potent ivy
hence my comment about the Thunderbolt earlier
indigo island
in Discworld's Sorcery it was the 8th son of an 8th son - ... who was a daughter, but it was too late, and Things were Set In Motion by then
narrow vigil
oh wait that's equal rites
indigo island
yeah, not sorcery
indigo island
yeah, I merged the two books a bit 😄 but Pratchett did explore that trope twice
rough temple
It looks like they might be going full bootstrap with the vindicator
It's power being used to prevent the doctor from landing causing him to power it up to land
Or the Rani did something else to prevent the doctor from landing
indigo island
.... I wonder if the whole bone palace is the Rani's Tardis or not
rough temple
Wouldn't surprise me
blazing helm
or the tardis is at the center of it
rough temple
Yeah she even asked him if he knew where his tardis is
indigo island
(also Mrs. Flood being kind of surprised back a long time ago recognising the Doctor's Police Box - it kind of means that they have been going around since the Last Great Time War and that was the first time they met and until then The Rani thought she was the last of the Time Lords
... and that is a very peculiar place to be as a scientist, and is a good reason to try to find Omega maybe reboot Time Lord society, or learn how things came to be. Having the Doctor around helps to reach that faster
flint abyss
I've only just started the episode but I'm loving how weird it is already
flint abyss
Yeah, that was weird and great. It brought together a whole load of stuff from the season so far that I wasn't sure about and did some cool stuff with them. Also nice for Rogue to come back even if very briefly
indigo island
so currently it seems this story began with Wild Blue Yonder, and has been ongoing since, and everything connects to everything
flint abyss
I am up for Timelord society coming back. We spent years getting it back last time just for the Master to kill them all off again off screen.
I do appreciate that The Rani chose Conrad because he was an absolute shithead but also with no imagination who would create a wish world so flimsy that it would fall apart through doubt so easily
bitter oracle
I also wondered if it was a creative decision to have his storytelling delivery to be so... Flat.
I'd love to know what the deal is with the giant bone monsters just vibing.
Is it Conrad being Conrad?
flint abyss
He probably thinks he's doing a great job and also probably assumes The Ranis are appreciative of what he's doing and not exploiting him as a useful idiot
narrow vigil
i assume the rani is responsible for them
partly because of this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Rzbu9xmjjU
little egret
Well this was neat. I guess it's just The Meddling Monk to return now, as the last sort of vestige of the Time Lords that hasn't returned in New Who. That and The Valeyard I suppose.
Bigeneration makes The Valeyard more possible, in theory. Depends on if they want to allow the previous Time Lord still able to regenerate, or if they're cut off from the cycle.
I'm guessing they can still regenerate. We saw that a Time Lord can regenerate again even of they've technically done it before, with 10 sending the excess energy into his dismembered hand.
acoustic sigil
the Doctor saying "I have a daughter" could mean a) there are aspect of this world that is real outside of what Conrad wished, so there are things to put a firm footing on to fight back, but given this is RTD, more likely this means b) "I now have a firm emotional reason to survive and kick your ass!"
frank cove
With how the Doctor was talking to Ruby about his granddaughter back at the beginning, I assumed they would introduce Susan's parents this run somehow. No idea how they would tie that into Space Baby Poppy, though... (Probably not at all, since RTD seems to enjoy flagrant misdirects.)
🙃 The Timeless Child was River Song the whole time. She's the Doctor Ancestor, actually, as well as his wife. River will also be his daughter somehow. 🙃
sudden tundra
OH
You know every time I think they run out of ways to be unsubtle they keep surprising me.
Also very fair basilica, love the sets.
rough temple
The set design has been hitting it out of the park this season
acoustic sigil
The easiest way to explain Omega is he's the Steve Wozniack to Rassilon's Steve Jobs.
merry mirage
I worry that Omega is going to steal the spotlight in the final episode when I think the Rani should be the villain.
bitter oracle
It might be a threat of an outcome, but the outcome never happens, and Omega remains un-returned
acoustic sigil
And Underverse is a more magical term for the previously established "antimatter universe"
little egret
And it lets you make Chronicles of Riddick jokes
timid tinsel
I'm actually not sure we get Omega on screen at all
It feels like Omega escaping the underverse is the threat, not actually having him turn up
little egret
That's a real possibility. A free Omega is a colossal threat, and The Doctor is not in the habit of allowing those.
bright minnow
weird, but interesting
I also wonder if maybe Omega is left mostly or entirely offscreen
acoustic sigil
He did say he was here at the end (I assume that voice was Omega's)
timid tinsel
My understanding is that was from a Big Finish drama?
acoustic sigil
Omega? He is from classic Who, The Three Doctors and Arc of Infinity. Or do you mean the voice actor? Could be.
timid tinsel
Yeah, I'd seen people suggesting the voice line that you're referring to was from a Big Finish appearance
Which could mean they didn't want to spoil a new casting decision, or alternately they haven't recast
pearl meadow
This is a stressful episode so far with all the comp het and what not
rough temple
I hope Omega is the failure state. I am definitely worried reality war is going to be very cluttered and unsatisfying like empire of death
Legend of ruby sunday was such a good buildup and Im scared of wish world being the same 😕
pearl meadow
That was fantastic and considers my fascination to Russell's approach to his second era
He really is just throwing all of Classic Who at the youngens huh?
potent ivy
Part of me thinks this finale may involve more than one doctor.
Not sure which one but there's a couple possibilities
pearl meadow
Part of me thinks this finale may involve more than one doctor.
Thatd be neat
Id imagine itd be Paul, David or Jo if any
maybe Matt
potent ivy
There are threads going back to the Tennant specials, we've seen Jo martin, we've got three enemy timelords and Omega's first appearance was the three doctors
pearl meadow
There are threads going back to the Tennant specials, we've seen Jo martin, we'v...
Oh thats a very clever thought actually
Hadnt considered there's 3 now
merry mirage
So pulling a few theories together to make a prediction that I'm not sure has been made:
The Doctor and Belinda wished for Poppy to be their baby so she is.
Previously Belinda (I think?) asked the Doctor about Susan and whether the Doctor has kids, the Doctor says he doesn't have kids yet, and waves the issue away as timey wimey.
Poppy will turn out to be Susan's mother. I'm calling it.
potent ivy
I feel like Tennant is the most likely.
pearl meadow
Yeah, I had that thought as well
pearl meadow
I feel like Tennant is the most likely.
Yeah, but I think McGann's possible because he seems very up to come back whenever asked, and is the only classic-adjacent Doctor who still actually looks like they did when they were on TV, or at least close enough
potent ivy
Would love a miniseries with him
The wish for doctor to be poppy's parents was with ruby not Belinda is the thing. Curious how that will play out.
pearl meadow
The wish for doctor to be poppy's parents was with ruby not Belinda is the thing...
If Poppy's Susan's mom thats how we explain that Susan is white
potent ivy
Well.... is Susan a timelady for sure?
acoustic sigil
All Time Lords are Gallifreyians, but...
pearl meadow
Until it changes, yes
potent ivy
Because maybe she regenerated.
pearl meadow
That also could be!
potent ivy
All Time Lords are Gallifreyians, but...
Nuh-uh
pearl meadow
I was mostly making a goofy joke
potent ivy
River song and the doctor arent
merry mirage
The wish for doctor to be poppy's parents was with ruby not Belinda is the thing...
Oh forgot about that, that is super weird and feels like a plot hole.
potent ivy
Considering this is a world made by a bigot maybe Conrad made a change to pair up to people of color?
Also, we also saw Belinda in the future, (well, her actress at least) and Conrad steered him to her. I feel like there's more going on here.
So we've got woman from the future and baby from the future......
acoustic sigil
no, the baby was from the past, 1865 ( 😉 )
potent ivy
Oh and is having Ruby be separated from her mom the new killing Rory? Because they did it again.
acoustic sigil
yeah, I did wonder about that
narrow vigil
is it ever actually confirmed on screen in the classic show that susan is definitively a time lady
potent ivy
Not sure. She leaves the show before regeneration is a thing and I've not watched the five doctors yet.
Actually as this involves Susan wonder if we will see the first doctor make an appearance.
narrow vigil
i don't think rtd would bring back david out of fears that might "overshadow" ncuti and "overexpose" david, but i could see jo turning up
sudden tundra
The fact in the episode they call omega the first is going to be an interesting point. Means they are tackling timeless child somehow.
narrow vigil
maybe the rani just doesn't know about the timeless child, but if that's the case i'd expect the doctor to mention it
potent ivy
Omega created time travel. It could be before they developed regeneration. It could also be drawing a distinction between galifreyan and timelord.
indigo island
In many stories there is
With non-Gallifreyan Time Lords and Ladies, such as Ace
acoustic sigil
Ace is not a Time Lady
potent ivy
Caption for the thumbnail: "I forget was it that I am supposed to always lie and you always tell the truth?"
acoustic sigil
"Isn't this Pink Shirt Friday?"
bright minnow
there's also an argument that the timeless child isn't a time lord (when it first appears) right?
Omega et al made use of the timeless child to allow them to regenerate, but regeneration alone does not make one a time lord
indigo island
Ace is not a Time Lady
She is in Death Comes To Time
little egret
Death's into some weird stuff
indigo island
Yeah, like most of the stories ever 😁
acoustic sigil
She is in Death Comes To Time
Latest appearance is Power of the Doctor, in which she is standard human
indigo island
Ace has many different futures, most if not all of them happened or are happening (or will happen)
acoustic sigil
New fetishwear just dropped
little egret
That's just a Phyrexian
indigo island
they are testing new glasses
sudden tundra
I know, between that and the set, it's really phyrexian weirdly.
next igloo
is it ever actually confirmed on screen in the classic show that susan is defini...
it's sort of hinted in the current era but not in an entirely conclusive way - 15 refers to her as having potentially been part of the genocide of the time lords when he's talking about those two things in The Devil's Chord
classic era no though, since as mentioned above she left before the show invented both time lords and regeneration
acoustic sigil
even her being in Five Doctors didn't really do much, although Susan only really called the First Doctor 'Grandfather', not his other selves.
indigo island
(that depends on how wide you cast your net of stories)
acoustic sigil
I know of tons of extra-canon stories, for this I'm just sticking to the TV stuff
next igloo
y'know I was thinking the bone beasts were just the rani still being on a dinosaur kick, but now i'm choosing to believe it was this (from a post on the somethingawful doctor who thread)
bright minnow
I will laugh if the reason for them being their is "Conrad is a fucking dinosaur"
indigo island
I think it's just a throwback to the Rani's dino stories
acoustic sigil
nothing said in the behind the scenes stuff about it (yet)
flint abyss
I hope they get explained more but they did a good job of something that can create doubt in the world.
potent ivy
narrow vigil
i wonder if the rani telling a rani to mae conrad a sandwich was deliberately a reference to the whole "make me a sandwich" thing, given conrad's comphet misogynist mra worldview
bitter oracle
Turns out they've been Big Energating this whole time (sarcasm)
indigo island
my kind of fear is that they'll just pack all the events from Wild Blue Yonder (opening the "fantasy world") till now in a neat package, with Mavity and everything and just close it down, so anything that comes after can choose to deal with it as they wish... as it's a completed arc
so nothing really mattered since then
pearl meadow
oof
sudden tundra
I'm still not over how banger of a set that is
narrow vigil
idk, i feel like the magic stuff will be here to stay, at most there'll be a "it's still leaking through" so they can just bring it back whenever without feeling wedded to it
pearl meadow
Im very curious how The Reality War turns out and what it means for magic stuff
main yacht
HUH.
Okay, my theory? Bigeneration is a mechanism for Time Lord repopulation.
But it's usually not just accidental, usually it happens via looms. 😉
main yacht
Im *very* curious how The Reality War turns out and what it means for magic stuf...
I suspect magic stuff is sorta here to stay. It's too useful to rule out from future stories.
But I can see it becoming far less of a focus from now on.
narrow vigil
Or maybe bigeneration is, itself, the effects of this magical invasion on time lords
bitter oracle
I want to know why Rani breaks the 4th wall
main yacht
Maybe that's also an effect of magic on Time Lords.
narrow vigil
Maybe it'll be revealed that she was talking to omega the whole time
pearl meadow
I want to know why Rani breaks the 4th wall
i mean sometimes a gag is just a gag
First Doctor did it in the 60's once
next igloo
But it's usually not just accidental, usually it happens via looms. 😉
okay honestly I would love if RTD canonizes looms like this in the most roundabout way possible
bitter oracle
Don't gags need to fit the requisite of Humour?
main yacht
Don't gags need to fit the requisite of Humour?
Humour is also subjective. :p
See: Mavity
Evilproduct will insist it is completely unfunny, I will insist it's fucking hilarious. Both of us are correct.
little egret
Given just how often Doctor Who just glosses over the consequences of the Doctor's time travel, I appreciate Mavity sticking around
pearl meadow
Im kinda hoping it doesnt last tooo much longer. Another season or two
acoustic sigil
potent ivy
my theory for bigeneration is it's the influence of the magic stuff. Doctor said it himself, it's supposed to be a myth
pearl meadow
I think Fenric did it 😛
little egret
My guess is still that it's some kind of Time Lord defense mechanism against extinction
next igloo
I think Fenric did it 😛
nah, the three Doctor Who fans are the Gods of Ragnarok and the whole show is being put on to entertain them
pearl meadow
nah, the three Doctor Who fans are the Gods of Ragnarok and the whole show is be...
I would adore that
little egret
My brain is trying to figure out who the Gods of Ragnarok would even be, in Norse myth. Like, Loki would make sense, since he's pretty important for starting it. But the other two? I'm not sure. Baldur maybe? His death kicks of the chain of events that leads to Ragnarok.
flint abyss
Who was the guy who loads of spare parts of shoes? I remember him being there
little egret
Oh gods yeah.
pearl meadow
Hel maybe?
little egret
Google says it was Vidar
next igloo
I suspect magic stuff is sorta here to stay. It's too useful to rule out from fu...
also re this my feel is that it's gonna be broadly four "eras" of magic:
- magic might be real? – this is more or less the status quo for the entire classic era, where a lot of stuff avoids it but there's still some firmly supernatural elements
- magic is not real – this is the status quo for pre-disney nuwho, and while a few stories do flirt with the supernatural, every single one at least vaguely gestures at the idea that it's probably just a science beyond most people's understanding (and rarely, even the doctor's)
- magic is very real – current situation
- magic might be real? – a return to the classic era status quo, where it could go either way depending on what the writer and/or producer feels like
main yacht
My brain is trying to figure out who the Gods of Ragnarok would even be, in Nors...
Loki, Surtr, and probably whoever rules the Jötunns at that point.
main yacht
also re this my feel is that it's gonna be broadly four "eras" of magic:
- magic...
Interesting take!
main yacht
Loki, Surtr, and probably whoever rules the Jötunns at that point.
Actually, this could in fact be Baldr and both of Thor's sons, since they're the only Aesir survivors of Ragnarok.
There's also Nidhogg.
A case could also be made for all three of Loki's banished children – Hel, the Fenris Wolf, and Jormungandr.
(Hel leads the charge of the undead hordes against the Aesir, the Fenris Wolf personally kills Odin, Jormungandr personally kills Thor.)
potent ivy
My brain is trying to figure out who the Gods of Ragnarok would even be, in Nors...
All 6 of Chris Hemsworth's abs.
main yacht
Sorry to say, mythological Thor probably looked more like a sumo wrestler than a pile of abs. Guy was a Viking god of hitting stuff.
Dude never met a problem he didn't want to throw a hammer at.
(Or eat, or bang, or get into an insult fight with, or drink, or get into a drinking contest with.)
(Sometimes all of the above.)
narrow vigil
For Thor, the answer to every round of bed wed behead was "yes"
acoustic sigil
next igloo
...does that cat just have her nips out
next igloo
makes sense
main yacht
Sandman author: "You know what this fantasy horror comic needs? Divine kitty titties."
Sandman artist: sighs
flint abyss
Also as a cat they should probably have about six of them
bitter oracle
I do wonder if The Rani desires to restore Galifrey, it is because she'd want it in Her Own Image; as in somewhere she can do experiments and have peers who'd support her work.
And The Doctor would have the agonising choice to deny Gallifrey's restoration because he wouldn't see it be corrupted.
main yacht
I'm still trying to puzzle out the story Conrad was telling. It had to be at least partly based on truth, right?
Someone upthread suggested the Rani was friends with the Fugitive Doctor.
narrow vigil
i think the point of the story is less to be a coherent narrative but to be background doubt being fed to the doctor and any people who know him and might seek him out, like ruby
main yacht
Fair
timid tinsel
I'd need to go back and check, but iirc it was also explicitly be a story that the Rani wanted to be told in as confusing and messy a manner as possible to create as much doubt as possble
main yacht
I thought that was just for the big explanation at the end?
narrow vigil
he's gotta doubt a little before he can doubt a lot, i guess
indigo island
indigo island
acoustic sigil
Yep, Dimensions in Time is now definitely Canon!
indigo island
not that that means anything the moment you look outside just the Main Broadcast Line
canon is what you choose / canon does not exist in a way how some other big franchises deal with it
true estuary
now, onward to canonising the curse of fatal death 😛
acoustic sigil
potent ivy
my sister has been working through NCuti's run one episode a day. she'll be watching Wish World soon. we skipped Space Babies
but give that Poppy is it in this... well I get to tell her 'well guess what you might have to watch'
main yacht
Tbh I guarantee it won't matter if you skipped Space Babies.
Anything that matters will be explained well enough.
Back in 2007 and then 2008, they paid off the hand cutoff from The Christmas Invasion. But did you need to see that episode to get the point? No. Because they explain all the necessary context in Utopia, and/or during the cliffhanger resolution for Stolen Earth / Journey's End.
(As well as a reminder in The Doctor's Daughter.)