That was actually kinda nauseating to see that level of organization to an engineered tragedy.
#Andor S02E07-09
worthy jasper
hollow pike
Rebels S3E18 if you want to watch Mon's speech planned with Gold Squadron, though a very different tone of content than Andor
honest portal
damn... this show....
split glen
Those first two episodes elicited a feeling of nauseating dread that I haven't felt from any media in ages. And then the third was a denouement that stuck the landing on tying so many threads together. Utterly exceptional. Syril Karn is one of the all timers.
severe pike
man, those KX droids were nowhere near as scary when I was fighting them in Fallen Order
this was absolutely fantastic, I have never been so gripped watching something I didn't want to see the conclusion of
I also liked the detail that the woman who tried to arrest Mon Mothma was under Lonnie, which is how Luthen knew Bail's team was compromised
worthy jasper
The minute I realized the sniper was there to shoot one of the green imperial troops my gut absolutely collapsed. I figured they were just gonna use the inexperience of the green troopers to make them screw up in trying to force order and make them start shooting. I didn't call straight up false-flagging.
oak glade
Syril's end...choking Dedra, not killing his nemesis because he couldn't believe he didn't know who he was...the beginnings of the revelation that he's not supporting order but instead mass murder...I'm glad they didn't do a redemption arc or anything so traditional. I agree @split glen , a brilliant end to a brilliantly written and terrible character.
split glen
Honestly I was so ready for the redemption arc because they'd done such a good job selling that the empire had taken his ideals and manipulated them, from moment one
And then he saw the minority who "caused" all of his problems and the metaphor for real life snapped right back into place
That it was the pacifist ghorman leader that shot him too... Just exceptionally tight storytelling
oak glade
The obsession with Andor, to give meaning to his pathetic course he chose in life.
The moment he gave himself back into that, his fate was set.
split glen
Yeah, you can see the cogs turning. This massacre happened because of me, but I'm only here because of Andor
Staggering performance
plucky nest
I assume Bix died on the way back to her home planet, to make way for Jyn?
oak glade
I almost saw it as an override. He started having the cogs turn seeing the massacre, but then he saw Andor and forgot about it.
Andor bad! Get criminal!
Even after everything he saw.
split glen
Could go either way, I think both readings are equally supported
(which is impressive)
oak glade
Agreed.
I need to rewatch Rogue One, but I don't know that I ever quite saw a romance between Andor and Jyn.
The ending embrace is more of a "we're going to die, at least we die together, not alone."
plucky nest
There's one more set of episodes before we hit the movie, but yeah, I'll likely watch it soon after.
split glen
I'm tempted to put that down to Diego Luna's chemistry with everyone
oak glade
I plan to rewatch Rogue One next week after the finale. I always liked it, but I think yeah, I like it even more now.
Also, I think my new toast is going to be "Next year on Yavin."
split glen
I do wonder what these last set of episodes "are" though. We have the ISB, Luthen/Kleya, Yavin, Saw as our threads, but I have to imagine KS-20 and Melshi were happening here so they could be in place for next time.
oak glade
I wonder if they might show the final end of Ghorman. The post-mining of the planet.
split glen
God I hope so. Otherwise the vibe is feeling like "Cassian gives himself completely over to being a spy", which sets him up for that opening of Rogue One
oak glade
I know that this might sound dumb but...in a way, it also makes the Death Star both unique and not unique. Like, it's unique because of the ease of what it does and not what it does itself.
The Empire is already committing genocide and mass murder. The Death Star is just the gun at the head of the galaxy to make it easier to do it.
split glen
It would reinforce the framing from Mon Mothma. They're not even lying about it any more
oak glade
THIS
Yes. Thank you.
Sorry, I've seen a few places complaining about Andor in how "evil" it's making the Empire look and...yes? YES? That was always the point! They didn't suddenly become evil with New Hope.
(Those might be trolls of course)
split glen
That sounds a lot like trolling or people who now feel uncomfortable dressing up as stormtroopers
plucky nest
Politics? In Star Wars??
oak glade
I've had that problem in Destiny. They added some Imperial costumes to the game and I like them but also...don't want to dress up as a Space Nazi?
split glen
Meanwhile I'm back here looking at how the press in this episode are completely uncommented on when they mirror the English/American Journalists covering a foreign insurgency, relying on familiar soundbites for audiences back home
oak glade
Politics? In Star Wars??
I had this reaction when people complained about Episode 1 focusing too much on politics and trade routes and all that. Of course it's politics! But I was a polisci major, so...
oak glade
People don't know history.
split glen
And how presenting an ethnically Caucasian species in the ghor, then modelling them almost entirely on the central European resistance from WW2 helps get the audience on board who wouldn't get it if the Ghormans looked "other"
honest portal
Osmium level at least
oak glade
I wonder how many people know the Nazis had a corps called storm troopers.
Apparently some people think Anne Frank was a fictional character.
Oh jeez, them singing that song, the Le Marseilles stand in. 😦
What's that old definition of tragedy, not that it's just bad but that you know it's going to happen and there's nothing you can do to stop it.
I wonder what's going to happen to Mon's husband and daughter?
I'm sort of a dreading a Damar moment next week.
A reprisal against Chandrilla for Mothma's defection, retaliation against her world and family.
plucky nest
could be
oak glade
Dumb question...do we know when Leia is supposed to become a senator? Did it happen right before New Hope? Because she has to be elected soon.
split glen
Honestly I could also see them just completely forgotten about
Leida is already off screen (at least partly by choice) and as much as Perrin had that moment at the end of the wedding, Mon had already effectively cut him out
oak glade
In Rebels she talks about Chandrilla suffering to Ezra, so that's what gave me the thought.
And going after family of dissidents is sadly a standard fascist/authoritarian tactic. 😦
Maybe hoping to turn her people against her too. "You are only suffering because of Mothma and her terrorists. If only she would surrender, you would not have to be under martial law" etc.
We'll see, it's only one week. To paraphrase Leia, the Empire is just speeding up and getting worse at this point, squeezing the fist to crush dissent. The point of the Death Star is to be the final ultimate threat to guarantee direct rule by the Empire.
It's actually one of the reasons I never hated the fact that they built a second Death Star (I wonder if they were always building two now and didn't just start on the second after the first built up). Or even the Final Order's fleet of planet killing Star Destroyers. Palpatine isn't terribly creative, the final plan was always "do what I say or I'll kill you," he was always just building up to do it as easily as possible.
plucky nest
Why build one when you can build two for twice the price?
oak glade
I understood that reference! (the movie version of Contact) 😄
And I've had the same thought, thank you @plucky nest 😄
weak grotto
It's actually one of the reasons I never hated the fact that they built a second...
I feel like their is a moment in...maybe its the clone wars, but I thought in revenge of the sith or something that hinted the second death star was planned all along
Also - those episodes were great. I did have a tiny giggle at all the cut backs to Syril in the square - I know it was deadly serious but at a couple of points he seemed to be in a weird slightly less dangerous version of the problem everyone else was having
oak glade
He's so dumbfounded at what's happened, I can imagine his brain just broke.
"No, wait, we're the good guys, we don't do this"
split glen
The moment in his room on Coruscant with the clone trooper toy on the shelf is really the definitive scene for him
Someone who thinks they're a hero for order but is actually a disposable tool
oak glade
It's funny that the first few senators that praise the fallen Imperial troops and insult the Ghorman are non-human. I wonder if they're doing that to try and go "hey, see, we're loyal" or they've bought into it all. I know it's more a Legends thing that the Empire is human-biased, but I don't see any non-humans in the Imperial military either.
hollow pike
I reckon you're right that they're doing the "we're loyal" thing.
Same reasons why the Ghorman senator wasn't willing to speak out a year prior, trying to save his folks from harassment
honest portal
one of the things that Andor does for me is that it really adds something to the original trilogy from a different angle but still in line, and also it's the only Star Wars thing that make me actively wants to rewatch the OG trilogy after i watch it because it's so good.
worthy jasper
Dumb question...do we know when Leia is supposed to become a senator? Did it hap...
While we can generally assume the Imperial Senate is modeled after the US one, she mightve been appointed to hold the position in the absence of her father by her mother the Queen, no election necessary.
hollow pike
Given there are Senators from the InterGalactic Banking Clan, the Techno Union, the Trade Federation, and also that at one point Naboo didn't get a Senator itself but was represented (by Sheev and later Padme) as the whole Chommell sector, I think it's safe to say who gets a senator and how they get in is largely played like a game of Whose Line
twin mango
Dumb question...do we know when Leia is supposed to become a senator? Did it hap...
I believe it's already canonically established that not long after Mon's speech Bail decides to resign and either gives his seat to Leia or endorses her candidacy
crystal prism
Whew, that was a tense last few episodes! I'm not sure where things will go for the last 3 - spy work to discover the Death Star I guess?
weak grotto
they also kind of need to kill a lot of people
Like...diedra and luthian both moderately need to die
they could disappear into the background of the universe, but I don't think luthean would, and I don't think Diedra suriving makes me happy
crystal prism
Does Dedra even make it past this? I don't see how she goes back to ISB after the massacre, she didn't exactly handle it well (not job performance, more having to see the results of her work up close and personal)
Is she going to find Axis or whatever she name Luthien?
worthy jasper
Her and Luthen both die in a fiery explosion I'd bet.
plucky nest
if any series can end on "everyone dies" (aside from Mon Mothra) then it is this one
plucky nest
Nah, annoy the fans, kill them off now!
crystal prism
Rogue One was a dream Cassian had while an imperial interrogation droid was working on him. Give it the Brazil ending, sorta?
twin mango
I could absolutely see Luthian survive in some cabin at the end of the galaxy
weak grotto
it's possible,and maybe they'll make a show about what Luthian does between ANH and empire.
But I think that feels unlikely
worthy jasper
So, I'm rewatching Rogue One. Mon Mothma just said they'd bring Jyn's father before the Senate to testify that the Empire is building a superweapon... we know this was a super blatant lie...
twin mango
how so? I imagine she's still got a couple of friends
and the senate got dissolved literally between the plans getting stolen and Leia getting captured
oak glade
I think it got dissolved literally right before Tarkin told the joint chiefs, since even they didn't know
plucky nest
A (space) Wizard Did It!
weak grotto
yea, the senate is almost certainly disolved in response to the theft of the death star plans in rogue one
Like its never strictly clear how much time passes between the droids being sent to tatooine and the destruction of alderan* but it's potentially days
*I am sure some nerd has worked this out
ok, did some reading and thinking and it's probably 2 days after the battle of scarif, maybe 3
And - the emperor may also have just been planning to disolve the senate once the death star was fully opperational anywya
twin mango
I believe Tarkin has a line saying as such
earnest bronze
Not seen it commented on, but the music is doing absolutely fantastic work in this. The Ferrix leitmotif sprinkled in to signify stubborn defiance, amazing.
Bail Organa probably has little choice but to step down as senator PDQ after blatantly using procedural shenanigans to give Mon Mothma the floor.
(Badass procedural shenanigans, but still)
"My bad, I thought she was going to talk about tax breaks"
oak glade
Bail Organa probably has little choice but to step down as senator PDQ after bla...
That's a good point, I never thought about that. I can imagine there's also a brief moment where he wouldn't want his daughter to succeed him, considering he knows how much of a gilded cage the Senate is, but she would probably point out the fact that she's already been helping him with the rebellion so far (like helping Ezra's group steal those ships).
And at this point she might be the only prominent person who could succeed him as senator whom they could trust.
Oh and stupid me, he does openly tell Mothma that he won't be able to make it to Yavin until a year from then, so Leia must end up replacing him then.
manic wedge
One question I have/thing I bumped on is, how long were the Rebels based at Yavin? My impression had always been, not that long, they moved around a bunch to avoid detection. But in this they seem to be there quite a long time
weak grotto
well, three years according to this
manic wedge
right, that's much longer than my impression had been
I was thinking they were jumping around every few months
I suppose that's never really said concretely though
hollow pike
Yavin was their first "real" consolidated base
which is why the DS1 hitting it would have been as devastating as intended.
maiden bronze
ok, did some reading and thinking and it's probably 2 days after the battle of s...
That's a busy week 🫨
weak grotto
especially given from the start of rogue one to the end is probably also maybe a week
sour pumice
Oh Hi, catching up on the series. This set of 3 epsiodes were very harrowing.
honest portal
maiden bronze
Incredible
oak glade
Huh, didn't take Partagaz for a beer enjoyer, thought he preferred shots.