The Doctor's quest to get Belinda home takes the TARDIS to Miami in 1952, where an abandoned cinema is hiding a terrifying secret. Can the Doctor uncover Lux's power?
#Doctor Who S15E02 - Lux
graceful ember
graceful ember
Okay this went dark and meta
idle canyon
And according to the cast credits, they did have last names!
graceful ember
That indeed was a nice touch yeah
graceful ember
Fun stuff in the Unleashed too, available right away again on YT
idle canyon
graceful ember
My grandpa after he retired was the projectionist for their local small cinema so I spent too much time with him up in the projector room - and Pye reminds me of him.
idle condor
Ncuti makes a great face in this moment
idle canyon
and around 31 minutes until he cries.
fathom dragon
THAT. WAS. BONKERS 😃😃😃
quasi mortar
I don't think I've gone from frustrated and cynical to completely bought in as fast as I did for that fan scene. (Though the music was cheating a bit)
idle condor
it ain't cheating that's just movies babeyyyy
fathom dragon
My brain immediately went to ohhh we must be dreaming for that scene 😂
random lintel
i did like that, when they were 2d, their characters were literally less comlex - like suddenly belinda's worried about her waistline
also at this point, has 7 or 15 taken down more gods
also do the gods of ragnarok count as one or three
idle condor
there's a whole schism about that 
haughty pecan
I don't think I've gone from frustrated and cynical to completely bought in as f...
Yeah, my feelings are torn on whether that was cloying or impeccable metacommentary
The Blink joke was funny though, though I feel there could have been a joke about how that was a Doctor-lite (not that he would have known that)
random lintel
i feel like there was a beat cut from that script at some point after the "i've seen every episode" line where the other woman would have made a comment about how no she hasn't she still hasn't watched the classic show
but it was definitely a kinder "scene of fans sitting round talking about a doctor who showrunner's show on the show itself" scene compared to the similar one on moffat's sherlock
haughty pecan
i feel like there was a beat cut from that script at some point after the "i've ...
Or even something about the missing episodes, sound recordings or not
tired mauve
This episode was good
Not sure what to feel about the meta fans scene
It was so weird
Also the music choice was something
quasi mortar
The costumes being the three eras was also neat. Scarf, fez, Meep
tired mauve
Also yet again Mr Flood better have a good payoff because her showing up this time kind of pissed me off
Like I have had enough meta stuff in this episode but her showing up and being meta felt a bit too much
random lintel
she sure does seem to be harbinging, but previous harbingers have been doing their harbinging around the various gods, whomst the doctor is oddly, seemingly inately, familiar with the rules of
so maybe instead of politely accepting the mystery of the timeless child as a thing that happened, rtd decided to pick up the ball and and run into into the endzone and just make the doctor the god of time
graceful ember
Flood as the god of stories - tales fits, I wonder if that will keep
random lintel
there was that moment when the doctor reacted to the sign outside falling and knew what it said - a lucky guess or does he possess some sort of 4th wall breaking power now?
fathom dragon
I think we can probably assume Mrs Flood will be in each ep
Like the Where’s Wally of RTD2
Anita Dobson busiest woman on television 😂
It just occurred to me people can go as The Fans to conventions 🥺
The irony of film reels being burned and the missing episodes 😭
hazy umbra
I came into the episode neutral and left feeling it was a Good episode.
Mrs Flood being the RTD Meme was frustrating.
Also feels like RTD saw the criticisms of The Doctor crying, and said "Hold my Beer".
balmy coral
Not sure what to feel about the meta fans scene
I was iffy on it until the fans said themselve they knew they were fake. It wasn't a weird 'sam and dean teleported to our universe' thing or 'superboy prime attacks DC offices' thing. It was a deliberate illusion. yes I know about the final scene but I'm filing it under 'it's a joke'
I actually like the solution being give the bad guy exactly what he wants
daring merlin
also at this point, has 7 or 15 taken down more gods
Depends. Do you count the Expanded Universe?
balmy coral
that's 2 episodes in a row that we've seen the Doctor's hearts
lets see if that trend continues
also, Doctor, just go to May 23rd
random lintel
let's only count the tv show itself for now, otherwise 7's killed enough gods to be a one man gotterdamung
daring merlin
I loved this episode.
balmy coral
I appreciate that they acknowledge the issues of race at the time in what felt like a ntural way. I can understand it feeling a bit odd that he leaves it but this is also less of a single evil entity took over thing. He knows how it ends at least.
though there's one line that felt weird
daring merlin
Watched it with my dad, he called it a 10/10. I wouldn't go that far, but I did really love it, and it was great to share in his pure joy. 🙂
balmy coral
where the Black man says to the Black woman that it's illegal for her to be in there
anyways, yeah this was a cool episode. I really liked it
daring merlin
The Blink gag was great.
balmy coral
and once again big kudos to the effect team for their work
daring merlin
Yeah, the Unleashed episode does a great job of showing just how amazing the effects team is.
Like, holy fuck they put in the work this week.
balmy coral
'our favorite is Blink'
'is that the one wtih the angels?'
'yes'
'oh come on I was barely in that one'
awkward silence
random lintel
i wonder if an actualy explanation of blink was cut for time or if it's another thing of hey wait does the doctor possess some sort of instinctual outside knowledge
balmy coral
I feel like the Doctor is just so used to rolling with bizarre situations that it barely registers to talk to people for whom he is a fictional being
daring merlin
"I thought that was non-diagetic" last season already hinted at the Doctor having some fourth wall awareness.
(And to be fair, Tom Baker broke the fourth wall all the time.)
daring merlin
I expect we'll see some deleted scenes after this season is over, anyway. They did it last year.
balmy coral
so far this season is very strong
daring merlin
Ah. Well, Tom mugs for the camera pretty frequently, and occasionally engaged in soliloquy.
random lintel
true, but considering this is 4, maybe he's just like that
daring merlin
True.
balmy coral
soliloquy? no, this is monologue day, get him
daring merlin
But yeah, loving this season so far.
balmy coral
Ncuti is shaping up to have a very strong run as the Doctor
daring merlin
Feels slicker, more refined, and more confident than last season in a way.
balmy coral
it's not been perfect but he has some solid episodes
daring merlin
Also, I really loved the "I read the leaks online" gag.
balmy coral
and Ncuti himself is just wonderful
daring merlin
it's not been perfect but he has some solid episodes
He's only had two bad ones. (Unfortunately bookending last season.) But the rest have all been winners imo. It's been a great run so far. 🙂
balmy coral
yeah. I think space babies unseated fear her as my least favorite episode
random lintel
also this being episode 2 means we can have endless discussions on which rtd2 era second episode of a season in which the doctor takes his new companion into their first journey into earth's hitory and land in the mid 20th century, end up at a showbiz establishment, and fight an evil god that trusses him up in magic bondage while a supporting character saves the day is better
balmy coral
so we've had play, music, light and death and whatever Mrs Flood is
I'm betting she's one of the pantheon
graceful ember
where the Black man says to the Black woman that it's illegal for *her* to be in...
I understood that as "even you are unwelcome (the "Caribbean" as later addressed), not just me"
fathom dragon
Yeah wasn’t it something like “that includes you” ie “when I say black I don’t just mean me, a Black man, but also in this time you, a Brown woman”
Btw btw btw Find Me 👀
I have no hard theory but that set my alarm off at full volume haha
balmy coral
hadn't realized that part one of the final would air on the 24th till just now
cursive cave
Holy moly. This was a fantastic episode. Who knew meta could be heartwarming?
plain patio
That was a great episode. I am going to have the Mr Ring-A-Ding song stuck in my head for a while though
balmy coral
I know it was just the toymaker tune but I was expecting making him laugh to have more meaning
plain patio
the god of death was a lot less whimsical than the other members of the pantheon
balmy coral
well he's an outside hire
plain patio
Maybe he just wasn't a singer or a dancer
idle condor
my biggest problem with the episode is a silly one that will not matter for most people, and it's the animation of Mr Ring-a-Ding.
it's not bad animation but it's not ... of the time animation, it's like somebody half remembered memory of that kind of animation.
it's a really silly problem :p
tulip jolt
to be fair Lux is not exactly of that place and/or time either :p
idle condor
I did say it was silly :p
tulip jolt
so if you really want to justify it to yourself you can say we only ever saw it after he got into it
idle condor
there's nothing to justify.
random lintel
ah but you see it's easily explained by mr pye reversing the polarity of the neutron flow
plain patio
I was aware that the animation was especially crisp for a cartoon of that time period. It probably could have been artifically aged in some way or made clunkier, but they really wanted to show how well they can mix the Doctor with animation
random lintel
i do get it tho, it was probably either decided that the work was too much for too small a payoff, or it would have looked jarring in motion
idle condor
It has well... all the cup head problems actually, it's doing too much in some places and not enough in other, when it's wiggly it's the wrong kind of wigglyness and often not enough. Not enough reliance on key poses and the usual going from one to the next for the time period.
god i'm a nerd....
random lintel
a nerd? in this server? in the spoiler thread for a doctor who episode? how did you get past our defenses???
fathom dragon
I officially have the song in my head
fathom dragon
help me help me help me is that the S7 blu-ray box set? is Ambassadors of Death in Doctor Who in 2025?
idle condor
i think you might get more and quicker answer in the #doctor-who channel
fathom dragon
and the question because wow would that be something to read out of context 😂
tulip jolt
man though I still can't believe that "don't make me laugh" was right there in previews and I still didn't twig that it was going to be that laugh
fathom dragon
ikr
I didn't remotely clock the Harvest Bringer or whatever it was either
I think my reactions were probably exactly as Russell would have scripted them... 👀
hazy umbra
Current speculation about Mrs Flood: She's part of the Pantheon, but perhaps the "weakest" yet most cunning. She's manipulating The Doctor so he faces off each other Pantheon member, so she can Usurp their positions/for lols.
cursive cave
My theory? She's The Doctor's Harbinger
hazy umbra
I can see that too.
daring merlin
My theory:
She's just a really nosy neighbour who's got all the hot goss on how to travel in time, bend the fabric of reality, etc. so you can spy on the neighbours even if they're trapped by a deflection field in the year 1952.
daring merlin
help me help me help me is that the S7 blu-ray box set? is Ambassadors of Death ...
Looks like the Season 8 box to me.
fathom dragon
ahhhhhh so close
daring merlin
To be fair, I think it's one of the Standard Edition boxes, and IIRC Season 7 is only Limited Edition so far.
fathom dragon
ahhh hence the blue strip? that was what tipped me off that I might be wrong 😅
tulip jolt
my theory is she's the rani, just because that would be the funniest option after years of speculation
but more seriously I think she's probably not a returning character, and while i'm not fully bought in on it I do agree "unexpected pantheon member hidden in plain sight" is a pretty compelling option there
keen compass
I remain convinced that RTD getting Disney funding means this show is being suffocated with money but it is nice that he got them to make some Flesicher cartoons with it.
keen compass
Linus Roache is one of those character actors I am always delighted to see. Loved him since he was King Ecbert of Wessex on Vikings
graceful ember
https://youtu.be/9S0jBl0H-LY some more BTS - more about cartooning and fandom-ing
hazy umbra
I put "Missus Flood" into an anagram machine and I got "Siss Doomful".
daring merlin
https://youtu.be/9S0jBl0H-LY some more BTS - more about cartooning and fandom-in...
This is wonderful.
I love the behind the scenes stuff we're getting at the moment. It's so damn joyful!!
fathom dragon
just throwing this out there but 👀 ?
imagine if this was the religious awakening that influenced Belinda's entirely bloodline 😅
I really liked that moment as well
daring merlin
Yeah, it was a great moment.
craggy flame
I thought this was good but not amazing
I actually assumed that rather than light it would be coming back to the thing lux actually repeatedly said, "don't make me laugh", somehow
tawdry bridge
My only wish is that we could've stayed with the scooby doo style for a bit rather than immediately getting out of it
Pay off the velma/fred reference from earlier a little more
daring merlin
I did love that bit.
fathom dragon
tulip jolt
Belinda as Fred doesn't feel quite right, but i'm not sure I can make a stronger argument. maybe Daphne depending on what her personality works out to be after more episodes, but so far it feels even less fitting than Fred
(and Shaggy and Scooby are obviously right out)
random lintel
ruby was a daphne (altho she'd look amazing dressed as fred)
belinda is also a velma, its their vibe imo
fathom dragon
this video does add a fun dimension to the Velma and Fred angle https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l0COPIuENoE
spoilers ||Ncuti gets Donna and Varada gets Ten||
like in the sense of Fred being the leader
brazen rover
Subtle as a brick. I'm on board.
brazen rover
Also side note the sets have been on point
Though this has got me thinking what is my favorite episode?
Eleventh hour or heaven sent I think
fathom dragon
I went slightly out of control on this earlier 😅
I also managed to forget RTD2 entirely so add CORR, 73 Yards and Rogue to that incredibly scattergun list 😂
idle canyon
Is there some way that (Miss) Belinda Chandra can be scrambled into Harbinger? (edit to fix name)
brazen rover
also the colours... the colours are just not right for the 50s
! Animation nerds? In this server?
Iagree that its not quite accurate is more what people think it looks like, and also it mostly doesnt matter
idle condor
indeed
craggy flame
yea she could have a middle name like...Gina?
Regina lets it work. It's a big stretch.
idle canyon
I'm just being paranoia/suspicious, and wouldn't put it past RTD
craggy flame
Like maybe it is Acne Nadir Harbinger Lad
balmy coral
if her last name is Chandra, clearly her middle name is Nyssa
craggy flame
Lol
winter yoke
I really enjoyed the ep but i felt kinda similarly as I did with the robot revolution that it felt like it needed more time in some places, but not less time anywhere else where it might be saved.
I suppose the ep name should have given it away but i did kind of expect mr ring a ding to be the god of stories, rather than light. but i suppose that domain remains free 😛
I'll be let down though if mrs flood is a harbinger. it seems she is something adjacent, watching and or taking advantage of the situation
though her being the doctor's harbinger is a cool idea
daring merlin
if her last name is Chandra, clearly her middle name is Nyssa
In The Sarah Jane Adventures, one of the lead characters was named Rani Chandra
So clearly Belinda is The Rani
graceful ember
further proof is that the actress playing Rani Chandra - Anjli Mohindra is in a relationship with Sacha Dhawan, who is The Master
(both of them active with Big Finish)
daring merlin
QED.
random lintel
And also, the same actress briefly played the shape shifter Charlie on legends of tomorrow, and what happens when a time lord regenerates? That's right, they shape shift into a new body
Checkmate atheists
graceful ember
British TV - we have 3 quarries, 4 houses and 5 actors.
random lintel
🎶 FIVE WORKING ACTORS
four filmable houses
three quarries
two old lovies
and a dalek on the BBC 🎶
balmy coral
In The Sarah Jane Adventures, one of the lead characters was named Rani Chandra
...
they should bring back the Rani, and just have her running a store somewhere perfectly happy. "oh, I just gave up all that drama, too much stress" and it be 100% legit.
random lintel
and then big finish will reveal that she owns the time travelling shop from the sarah jane smith adventures that the shopkeeper used and they've been having time/space adventures ever since her reform
graceful ember
Big Finish's Rani is Siobhán Redmond currently (10 years ago), and I'm sure they've been playing with the idea to have Anjli play Rani and The Rani in a story 😄
daring merlin
Of course, if the Rani was used on telly, it would mean the effort would get put in to untangle the problem of the character rights – which Big Finish doesn't have the money or clout to do.
brazen rover
I'm not an animator so it's hard to pin down whats different but there is a difference https://youtu.be/UXInk1PCsc8?feature=shared
daring merlin
Jerry Beck watched the episode and really liked it. 🙂
By the way, it's hard to do a search since all the results are either this or a ship from Warhammer, but where did Russell get the name Lux Imperator for the god of light?
brazen rover
latin ¯_(ツ)_/¯
idle condor
commander of light
random lintel
imperator was also used as a title for roman emperors, so "lord of light" would be a technically imprecise but fitting translation
craggy flame
Of course, if the Rani was used on telly, it would mean the effort would get put...
what is the tangle?
daring merlin
what *is* the tangle?
Pip & Jane Baker died with no clear heir to inherit their copyrights.
craggy flame
oh, interesting. I find it weird that the BBC doesn't just...own those rights
idle canyon
They sort of learnt after the Daleks, but people still get one over on them.
daring merlin
oh, interesting. I find it weird that the BBC doesn't just...own those rights
Well, it's usually the case that writers get to keep characters they create... Unless the company specifically makes a point of asking to have them signed over... Or if you're an American company.
idle canyon
(Looking at you Stef Coburn :shakes fist: )
daring merlin
They sort of learnt after the Daleks, but people still get one over on them.
I mean. Steven Moffat still owns the Weeping Angels. The Ood are still Russell T's.
craggy flame
yea, fair
daring merlin
Althoug the Daleks are a unique case. In 1963, the BBC co-owned the rights due to their staff's part in their visual design, but Terry Nation's agent (Steven Moffat's mother-in-law, incidentally) negotiated to get all the rights so he could try to use them in his own spinoff works and such, which the BBC was amenable to.
But the arrangement was always pretty friendly; Terry as good as guaranteed them that, if they wanted to use the Daleks again, they could, they just had to ask, and he'd get first right of refusal on writing for them.
Thus, Power of the Daleks and Evil of the Daleks happened without him (he was busy) while he tried to spin up a spinoff, which never happened... Then after a few ideas were thrown around that Terry didn't like, they proposed Day of the Daleks, he approved, and it got made, and then for three years after he wrote a Daleks story for them every year (Season 10, 11, 12)...
It was all quite well worked out, to the satisfaction of all parties.
idle canyon
And it is just a myth that there must be a Dalek story at least once a year.
daring merlin
Until that wobble in 2004, but that got worked out anyway...
daring merlin
And it is just a myth that there must be a Dalek story at least once a year.
Yeah.
It was invented by fans as an explanation for why we kept getting Dalek stories for a while even though they mostly weren't very good after Russell left, and made the Daleks feel pretty tired as villains.
The reality is the BBC and the Nation estate have a good relationship right now. If Russell wants more Daleks, the Nation estate will appreciate the royalties and the PR boost.
But if he doesn't, then they're cool with their already-extant huge pile of money – as well as all the residuals they get from existing episodes, Big Finish stuff, comics...
tulip jolt
and for a long time there were episodes every year, including some that would only just barely get under the 1 year bar and only barely had a dalek, so it's easy to see how people who already "knew" it was a thing would see that as confirmation
but at this point we have quite firmly had more than a year with not a single plunger or eyestalk
daring merlin
Skaro did get a namecheck in the last season finale (which in the moment, I thought might mean something – but it didn't lol).
But the VNAs talked about Daleks all the time, and they outright didn't have the rights to use them.
We did also have that silly little Children In Need skit in 2023.