#Suggestion 61 discussion
true radish
main bobcat
We had talked about this a bit in a previous issue. In a Swiss tournament, players should not end up playing the same opponent in multiple rounds. Usually this is accomplished by using some form of tie breaker when determining the ranks of players in the tournament. (A relatively common sett o tie breakers would look at Something like Strength of Schedule, Extended Strength of Schedule, then random.)
Happy to discuss this more, but the way the bot currently has Swiss implemented where players end up playing each other over multiple rounds isn't great.
proven pelican
We had talked about this a bit in a previous issue. In a Swiss tournament, play...
I get what you’re saying but you just need to point to math. Is there a mathematic example that you can show us so we can compare it to ours?
Driving right now, will respond when I’m not on the road. Looking forward to seeing your suggestion
main bobcat
So what yours does as best as I can tell is looks at players who have the same number of Tournament points and pairs them (I am guessing random). The problem comes in if you have 2 players that have the same score, but they have already played each other
proven pelican
No, nothing is random in our math
It’s based off round performance. But give me an example. Maybe point to a site that you’d have used and I’ll compare
main bobcat
Challonge
That's the easiest example probably
Here's your bracket
Match 16 is a rematch of match 11
proven pelican
I’ll compare to challonge when I get to my desk
main bobcat
as well as Match 17 being a rematch of Match 12
That shouldn't happen
donutsdad had 2 TP going into Round 3, as did logancomposer. They played each other in round 3 and logancomposer won, so he now has 3 TP.
No one else in the bracket has 3 TP, but with 2 TP are
donutsdad
siaka
Chekans
AV8R
Of those 4, logancomposer has played donutsdad and siaka. Why would there be a rematch with donutsdad when there are available matchups with Chekans and AV8R?
Challonge actually lets you specify which tiebreakers you want to use (and in what order)
I'm headed out for the night, but happy to discuss more!
proven pelican
I'm headed out for the night, but happy to discuss more!
Would you please link me to your bracket for the event in question?
proven pelican
What's the tournament name?
proven pelican
Is it the same players?
main bobcat
Same players
proven pelican
kk, That's all I needed. TY
proven pelican
Same players
We’re adding math to avoid previous pairings until the math can’t avoid it anymore.
Incase a host wants to do something crazy like 20 rounds.
proven pelican
@main bobcat new sorting method from traditional chess swiss events is in place. Let me know what you think of it. You can test with /fake players
main bobcat
Cool I'll give it run through
main bobcat
Looks like there's still something up
Same player got the bye, some duplicate matches
proven pelican
checking to see if @ember minnow actually pushed the update haha
proven pelican
Same player got the bye, some duplicate matches
give me one sec
😦 woopsi
Give us a min lol
we'll get it out
main bobcat
no worries
ember minnow
My bad, forgot to pull update to production lol
@main bobcat Hey, could you confirm if it works?
You might need to reset tournament to make it update version
ember minnow
Alright I'll look more into it
ember minnow
@main bobcat Hi, does this look correct to you?
Made sure player 5 lost all the time and it was moved out eventually
main bobcat
Fake Player 7 is getting the by twice
main bobcat
Yeah, a player should only have to sit out one round unless everyone else has had a bye.
ember minnow
Yeah, a player should only have to sit out one round unless everyone else has ha...
Alright, asking again if it looks correct, sorry for the hassle 
main bobcat
Match 16 is a rematch of Match 1
ember minnow
Match 16 is a rematch of Match 1
Updated the algorithm a bit more, could you check if it looks good now?
main bobcat
Updated the algorithm a bit more, could you check if it looks good now?
18 is a rematch of 14.
proven pelican
18 is a rematch of 14.
Sorry, posting that was a bit pre-mature
ember minnow
Apologise for pinging you so much, double checked this time with @proven pelican and can confirm that it works now, the bot tries X amount of times to try finding no duplicates till it gives up
proven pelican
Thanks so much!
Woo!
main bobcat
So, I just posted a think in #premium-support that sort of points to why you need tiebreakers for ranks. I'm not entirely sure what the math is doing in your pairings, but it would be good to know so I can explain it to my players.
main bobcat
@ember minnow So based on Diaboli's comment yesterday, the tiebreakers are OMW% and OGW%. Is that still the case? If so, could I recommend changing the second tiebreak, since (I think) OGW% won't make a difference in a best of 1 sort of scenario.
ember minnow
<@86477779717066752> So based on Diaboli's comment yesterday, the tiebreakers ar...
It's OMW% yes, also it actually did a difference when it comes to how scoring and matching up with people is handled. The bot uses that now (oh and the double 1st place that was mentioned is fixed)
main bobcat
It's OMW% yes, also it actually did a difference when it comes to how scoring an...
Cool, so it's just the single tiebreaker, then random?
Or just OMW and that's it.
ember minnow
Cool, so it's just the single tiebreaker, then random?
This one is correct yeh
main bobcat
OK cool. Thanks
ember minnow
@main bobcat My bad, let me clarify. The bot matches you up as follow (in order):
- Amount of wins
- OMW%
- Random / One you haven't played against yet*
*If the bot is unable to find, then it's random