sk-discussion

[icy crow]

Not exactly but it more so trivializes her fight more since most of her attacks are on ground

[clear fulcrum]

well yeah! so how am i wrong about him disliking silksongs art?? 😭

[smoky dagger]

Can I dm you about a silly thing related to it

[fiery burrow]

sure

[real hearth]

and even then the amount of summons that are “overpowered” take so much investment that you are purposely doing that, which is okay too

[opaque sigil]

Cheating in a game doesn’t mean you don’t value it as art it just doesn’t mean that

[old compass]

game mechanics itself isn't art vro

[graceful oyster]

Hermeus Mora

[real hearth]

like you’re not gona accidentally trivialize a boss with a summon in a souls game or a build in sk either

[icy crow]

Would be farming 1-UPs in any Mario game via a Koopa Shell be considered cheating lol

[clear fulcrum]

Dude.. if you had the double jump or clawline in the earlier sections of the game, would that not ruin the platforming there?

[graceful oyster]

https://tenor.com/view/ss-silk-song-silksong-skong-gif-9056276688868888316

[clear fulcrum]

YES THEY ARE?? what is this take omg 😭

[opaque sigil]

If it’s a cheese it would count for the context

[cunning geode]

if you had big chungus omega cannon in moss mother fight would that not ruin the combat there

[old compass]

*laughs in batchler in game design

[icy crow]

It more so is a cheese since you're like. Just making yourself never get a game over

[cunning geode]

think about that one

checkmate

[clear fulcrum]

is that not exactly what im saying?

[opaque sigil]

So the claim would be that it’s disrespecting the art

[cunning geode]

you cant be serious

[opaque sigil]

Which ofc is patently insane

[real hearth]

nobody likes fighting nyleth anyway this gets a pass

[icy crow]

"Noooo! You cannot just farm 1-UPs in the first level of the game!!"

[opaque sigil]

But people are actually like this

[clear fulcrum]

how does this prove anything 😭

[real hearth]

i would consider this a smart implementation of game mechanics

[opaque sigil]

“Nooo you can’t just use the major mechanic throughout the whole game”

[trim estuary]

I LOVE NYLETH

[icy crow]

Lost Levels lowkey letting us farm 1-UPs at the very start of 1-1 lmao

[trim estuary]

THAT FIGHT IS SO FUN

[real hearth]

like technically ur right it’s cheesey but it’s built that way and to a degree was intended by the developers to be included

[opaque sigil]

Ragebaaait

[old compass]

it doesn'r prove anything, but it is ironic though
well, game mechanics itself is kinda just not art...

[real hearth]

so i think it’s valid

[real hearth]

what i’m saying they want u to do that shit which is cool!

[real hearth]

name tracks

it’s not going to work on me

[clear fulcrum]

Tools are more like the White and gold tanooki suit. If someone purposefully dies a lot so that they could get the invincible power up to cheese a level, is that not purposefully ignoring the game design with a mechanic the developers intended? Surely you can’t expect anyone who be the level normally to say that that player actually engaged with the game design.

[trim estuary]

I alone am the one who does not ragebait…

[clear fulcrum]

How are they not?

[opaque sigil]

No it’s not ignoring the game design if they intended it lol

[cunning geode]

but thats not how tools are accessed

[opaque sigil]

If tc didn’t want tool spam to work they would give you fewer tools per bench but they didn’t because IT’S INTENDED AS AN OPTION

[real hearth]

i think this is extremist lol. i don’t think using tacks on karmelita is comparable to that at all

[old compass]

strip silksong of all the drawings and all that's left is just hitboxes
that's not art that's just some programs

[trim estuary]

How do you explain Shell Shards then

[cunning geode]

the apex of where this argument is going is if it doesn't count as "appreciating the art" or "engaging with the game design" for a player to choose easy mode difficulty

[opaque sigil]

They even give you a crest that can refresh your tools and while that isn’t necessary for spam it’s still explicitly supporting that gameplay style

[clear fulcrum]

Developers can usurp their own design by adding other mechanics, this isn’t new. It’s never gonna be the same as hacking your way through a boss, but you’re still not engaging with Karmelita, even if you engaged with other parts of the game.

[trim estuary]

[old compass]

[opaque sigil]

It’s over bro is claiming to have more design intent knowledge than the devs

[clear fulcrum]

Strip a pixar movie of all it’s models, thats not art, that’s just rigs

[real hearth]

tbf i agree with carter here. the product of your game as a whole is art, obviously there are “non-artistic” components, but i think as a whole the art behind game mechanics IS just as much art as drawing

and should be treated as a form of artistic expression

[opaque sigil]

Yes because it’s the same elitist bullshit that’s a constant stain on every fandom

[real hearth]

that doesn’t mean that using tools is at all circumventing said artistic expression, but the game mechanics themselves are art to me

[old compass]

I'm still talking mechanics in itself

[real hearth]

like how they come together moreso

[clear fulcrum]

How do you interact with art if you think the creator is always right? Are people not allowed to critique game design anymore?

[opaque sigil]

“You didn’t play the way I did so you don’t value the game as much as me”

[real hearth]

which i think? is what carter is going for

[opaque sigil]

They are but that’s not what you’re doing lmao

[old compass]

sure, a good graphics game with shitty mechanics isn't great
but I feel like calling game mechanics art is cliche

[cunning geode]

carter your argument rests on defining one form of playing the game as "more artful" over another

which is extremely flimsy and subjective

[opaque sigil]

They’re a component of it

[fathom schooner]

Honestly when it comes to tool spam your either using good tools (expensive and you cant spam much) or your spamming mid tools

[old compass]

yeah, so I still stand by games being mixed media

[sharp slate]

It does feel weird calling mechanics art, i would call it part of game design maybe

then people would debate if game design is art xD

[real hearth]

i think it’s a bit subjective in that sense but i consider it a unique form art personally

[trim estuary]

Well, video games aren’t art so I’d argue game design isn’t art

[real hearth]

i absolutely believe game design is a form of artistic expression

as is the product that it results in

[clear fulcrum]

Yeah I would say that interacting with the main challenge of the game (bosses) is way more faithful to the design of the game than exploring and being able to cheese the boss. Most players are exploring the areas anyway, it’s not like tool users are actually interacting more in different areas in the game than your average needle player lol. If tools required much more of a challenge to get them then maybe you’d have an argument, but they don’t.

[sharp slate]

At the same time if you are calling the mechanics art, then are program aspect of art tools "art" because they have a flow to them

[opaque sigil]

Ok you might want to know that the context is somebody claiming using red tools is basically the same as cheating and both are disrespectful and devalue the game as art

[sharp slate]

thats where i feel like it bleeds into weird territory

[fathom schooner]

Good tools are all either hidden or require a challenge to get to?

[real hearth]

this is a good question

[opaque sigil]

We’re in unhinged weirdo mode not nuanced discussion mode

[clear fulcrum]

I’ve said multiple times that it’s not the same as cheating..

[fathom schooner]

Plus game design is to use tools to supplement your needle, not use them over the needle overall

[sharp slate]

That opinion actually makes sense to me tbh even though i dont agree with it

[opaque sigil]

Says you?

[clear fulcrum]

Cog flys are pretty much right there in high halls, cogwheels are bought from a merchant..

[sharp slate]

Game = art red tools = bad, so art of game less good

[opaque sigil]

TC added reserve bind

[real hearth]

it is a bit ambiguous i think but the way i like to look at it is programming tools themselves are similar to what a pencil does in the real world, where they are used to make an idea come to life rather than be the art itself

[sharp slate]

games are an artform people say

[fathom schooner]

Cogwheels are okay, cogflies are locked behind a secret room that you need clawline to get to

Both are in act 2, so you already have to go through a decent chunk of the game

[trim estuary]

no, programming is more like writing than drawing

[old compass]

you know what I can respect that 🤝

[regal dagger]

yea but code can be considered art

[sharp slate]

I think its the pieces fused together that would make games considered an "art" but honestly i dont really get the value of classifying stuff of games or books into artforms

[cobalt summit]

i wish architect crest red tool restock would get removed from game tbh

[sharp slate]

feels like just a terminology thing for arguements

[buoyant zenith]

@inner night im sorry bro i dont know why you blocked me i am sorry i didnt read chat i was fighting if i slept the mobs wouldnt have killed you and you would have won that fight

[real hearth]

this is a totally fair perspective as well

[fathom schooner]

Cogflies and cogwheels are also very limited in carry capacity so your not cheesing much with them

[opaque sigil]

Craft bind isn’t even broken

[trim estuary]

take this back to the DSMP server buddy boy

[clear fulcrum]

UNLESS you use the architect crest which is my point 😭

[cunning geode]

oh no, you really shouldn't be claiming that people who discover tools and learn how to use them are not being as "faithful to the design of the game."
Like I said before, this is a slippery slope to the "people who play on easy mode are not playing the game the RIGHT way" type of argument

[buoyant zenith]

i cant he blocked and left all srv expect his favo game one

[real hearth]

you gotta let it go

[opaque sigil]

TC themselves have said in an interview that’s why they added all the shit

[sharp slate]

i honestly think red tools just need slight adjustments and a cool down tbh, thats it, craft bind would be fine if you could do BULLSHIT GO

[fathom schooner]

Architect crest costs more shards than usual, costs the silk you would use to heal, and its still a bind so you still need time to bind

[cunning geode]

there is nothing, zilch, nada, ABSOLUTELY nothing stopping you from playing without using red tool combinations, but you cannot control every fan's chosen experience with a game you enjoy, that is selfish

[opaque sigil]

Which you know they shouldn’t have to say in an interview that they added a major mechanic for people to actually use it but that’s where we are in this fandom

[fathom schooner]

Honestly the cheesiest part of architect is the needle art thats fucking massive with very high damage

[clear fulcrum]

i’ve literally said before that it’s not because red tools make the game easier, it’s because they literally let you win boss fights with minimal interaction. If someone did all of the pale oil quests for an overpowered needle I wouldn’t be complaining. THATS making the game easier through challenge, while still requiring you to learn the boss in order to win.

[opaque sigil]

Pretty much, drillchitect is crazy

[fathom schooner]

You can ignore the tools on the crest for basically every non boss/non oversize enemy by just slapping a needle art on basic enimies because it 1 shots

[sharp slate]

Eh disagree nailarts are pretty weak imo in sk

This is the reason people would say craftbind is broken but more of problem with no cooldown/some red tools

[clear fulcrum]

yeah but that one wasnt

[fathom schooner]

Normally yes, but architects is the exception

Architects does the same damage as silk skills

[cunning geode]

"its not because red tools make the game easier, it's because they... let you win boss fights with minimal interaction"
isnt this the same thing

[sharp slate]

yea but no one is going out of their way to run architect for charged nail attack at least not to my knowledge

[real hearth]

it’s kinda unfair to say that people shouldn’t use certain builds because if that’s the case you could argue that people can’t, say, level their needles past a certain point until they progress a certain
amount which ruins the creative and openness that the game provides

[fathom schooner]

With a massive hitbox

[last flower]

for me the effect is to slow

[opaque sigil]

Ok but you recognize this id way outside of normal gameplay

[clear fulcrum]

How do you come to this conclusion when i literally just provided an example of what i meant.

[fathom schooner]

You dont have to is the point, you can just run around with it charged or pre charge it when running twords enemy spawns in areas like the citadel

[clear fulcrum]

which is the point

[sharp slate]

yea, but its just an example i dont have the gif of nyleth being deleted in 3 seconds, though thats a problem with curvesickle

[clear fulcrum]

tbh thats kinda what nyleth is designed around though

[fathom schooner]

You can kill nyleth in under 40 seconds with shaman shes not a very good benchmark for tools being good

[real hearth]

like if i told you that using red tools allows you to beat bosses with minimum effort, i can say that you should go to bilewater first everytime you play act 2 because if you upgrade your needle you aren’t engaging with the game mechanics

[cunning geode]

you continue to only regard using the needle as "the right way" and "faithful"
this is at its core, a fallacy. you really have to let yourself accept other players enjoy the same game and not in the way that you do

[icy crow]

All this could be fixed if Team Cherry just removed all red tools from the damn game

[fathom schooner]

She just dies to any competent strategy thats not "face tank it with multibinder"

[real hearth]

both are equally as dumb

[clear fulcrum]

I just explained how upgrading your needle isnt the same

[sharp slate]

thats not the point though, you shouldnt be able to just spam all your tools and kill her instantly, 40 seconds is ALOT longer than curvesickle spam

[cunning geode]

otherwise you're just gonna keep getting frustrated at things out of your control that aren't your responsibility.

[sharp slate]

actually using shaman to speed kill requires skill

[clear fulcrum]

You have provided no actual argument for it not being the most engaging way to play the game besides “let others do what they want”

[opaque sigil]

At its core this is just somebody getting upset that other people might choose to play the game a different way which is pretty sad

[fathom schooner]

Eh, i did that with only 4 extra silk spools, if you go in with max you can casually drop quad threadstorms on her face and delete her

[twilit gale]

Seth is harder than nyleth? Damn I didn't expect that

[clear fulcrum]

No? the needle being upgraded is NOT the same as red tools

[real hearth]

i think under your criteria this would be hypocritical because not every person uses red tools effectively enough for them to be an instant win button, it is more like an accessory to your existing moveset which would be equivalent to a needle upgrade

[twilit gale]

Wait so where is karmelita and the other act 3 bosses?

[sage umbra]

depends on the person I would say.

[cunning geode]

thats the thing: i dont need to. YOUR argument rests on one way of playing being more engaging than others; what I am saying is that it literally does not matter which one you find the most engaging

[icy crow]

Follow the way to their map icons. You'll find out

[fathom schooner]

Red tool damage, needle damage, I USE BLUE TOOL DAMAGE

Sawtooth circlet baybee

[opaque sigil]

TC added a lot of different supported ways to play the fact that you found one that you like is cool but that doesn’t mean the other explicitly supported play styles are less valuable

[real hearth]

and even if they did it IS apart of the game and IS apart of the creative free will the game provides you

[sharp slate]

thats still not the same thing, 4 threadstorms still doesnt do that same thing curvesickles do in that fight

[clear fulcrum]

You have to frame it as me being the big bad villain that hates when others don’t listen to me when in reality I’m just criticizing Silksong for letting players do that.

[icy crow]

This is why charms are better than tools 💔

Despite 99% of them being shit

[fathom schooner]

Pre nerf threadstorm killed nyleth in 4 threadstorms 💀

[odd hull]

Charms are so bad

[sharp slate]

honestly both systems are fine imo

[cunning geode]

oh my god fellas TC let all the red tools out how could they let players do something fun

[rocky jolt]

https://tenor.com/view/sus-pizza-among-us-among-us-meme-sussy-gif-24581549

[clear fulcrum]

THEN WHY DEBATE THE GAME?? THATS INHERENTLY WHAT ANY CRITICISM OF SILKSONG BOILS DOWN TO?!

[opaque sigil]

You’re upset ss has player expression because people might express themselves in ways you don’t like

[fallow notch]

since when did the tornadoes actually suck up projectiles

[icy crow]

Charms are heavily unbalanced, and tools are only a little more organized overall lol

[clear fulcrum]

worse in quality but better in build variety

[cunning geode]

youre debating whether other players are allowed to play the game in a way they find fun

[fallow notch]

like i knew they destroyed them but not actually pull them in

[sharp slate]

I think its fine to do something fun with red tools, but talking from a balancing perspective there are some easy things you could do to increase fun and balance the game

[cunning geode]

that is weird

[icy crow]

Silksong players do not have their free +50% damage boost tool at least

[grave anchor]

I think my silksong has an error its stuck wotj lile 400 shards

[sharp slate]

example removing shell shards, adjusting damage of some reds, and putting a small cooldown BOOM more enjoyment and balance

[opaque sigil]

If somebody wants to delete a boss with voltvessels covering the screen with lightning explosives can be fun and satisfying claiming people don’t respect the art for that is absurd

[clear fulcrum]

I’m debating that red tools suck!! You can say this about any game criticism whatsoever but instead you’re framing it as me hating player choice.

[twilit gale]

Bro I CANT SEE THE FUCKING SCREEN IN LOST TROBBIO

[fathom schooner]

Curvesickle needs to hit nyleth SEVENTY NINE TIMES

[fallow notch]

https://discord.com/channels/283467363729408000/1380233471321968732

[grave anchor]

Yes my shell shards are stuck at 400 how to fix

[cunning geode]

i have only quoted you :)

[fathom schooner]

What are you whining about

[grave anchor]

Oh thanks

[trim estuary]

The first and most important one: remove/replace memory lockets

[odd hull]

Huh, I don't think so. Most are useless, bad and the better ones are just boring.

[opaque sigil]

Truth nuke

[fathom schooner]

Actually more because i know your at needle 5 at nyleth, and she has 9% damage resistance at needle 5

[icy crow]

Silksong fans when they don't have their Longnail + Mark of Pride combo

[twilit gale]

Beast song is like dream gate except kind of less useful?

[fathom schooner]

So ah yes, curvesickle is a problem against nyleth, who will need to be hit more than 80 times by the tool

[opaque sigil]

Now memory lockets ACTUALLY undermine the game design

[twilit gale]

No?

[fathom schooner]

Act 2 sylphsong woo

[sharp slate]

let me load up OBS real quick i can record this shit in 1 minute

[clear fulcrum]

no you have not 😭
I’ve said multiple times that players are allowed to play however they want, but that I’m also allowed to think that the mechanics suck and that if you abuse them that you didn’t interact with the game as much as i did. You’re purposefully misconstruing my argument because you’re unable to come up with your own, which you’ve also admitted to

[cunning geode]

okay yeah the memory locket thing not working with the hunters crest and EVA or whatever that is, THAT is seriously odd

[icy crow]

https://tenor.com/view/joe-joe-coin-joecoin-emotiguy-emoti-gif-8523581199470707841

[odd hull]

I think it's way way more useful

[fathom schooner]

Please do actually the math makes this look like it cant be a problem

[odd hull]

Never used dream gate in my life, I think

[opaque sigil]

This is dumb but the bigger problem is it incentivizing you not to experiment with different crests

[twilit gale]

Not really you can set up dreamgates anywhere

[cunning geode]

"didn't interact with the game as much as I did"
im sorry, thats enough for me. thank you for admitting you and only you play the game the "right" way.

[sharp slate]

....

[harsh yarrow]

to be fair-

[fathom schooner]

80+ hits with a tool you can hold 16 of

[graceful oyster]

Do I need to post the gif again

[fallow notch]

h o w
it was so good to avoid runbacks and quickly get to godhome

[sharp slate]

and it can hit ALOT OF TIMES

[harsh yarrow]

you dont know that until you intentionally look it up

[icy crow]

Eva is basically Salubra's Blessing, expect she isn't chanting over you and it's faster

[graceful oyster]

They multi hit

[opaque sigil]

If you didn’t do the boss hitless without any tools you didn’t engage with the game enough

[harsh yarrow]

its stupid, but yeah

[fathom schooner]

Okay you get like 4 hits if you perfectly land every sickle

[graceful oyster]

Extremely easy to do on Nyleth

[fathom schooner]

Even if all 16 land thats not enough damage

[twilit gale]

What? It literally eliminates the problem of terrible runbacks and you can set it up at a stag station to get the same effect as beast song

[opaque sigil]

The bigger issue is very player facing and very impactful on player psychology

[old compass]

me when lore reasons: (it's actually TC being trolls)

[sharp slate]

im getting a clip give me 2 minutes

[odd hull]

Only one tho. Silksong getting you to a tp station is better, you can easily get anywhere like this.

[fathom schooner]

Youd need more damage and to perfectly land every curvesickle you can hold

[cunning geode]

hey i mean if you go for the secret BFG on the map that makes the final fight way easier you actually didnt engage with the game design, sorry. i dont make up the rules!

[harsh yarrow]

I didnt notice it on my first time through, but yeah, after that it does encorage you to not upgrade the Hunters Crest until endgame

[clear fulcrum]

See? you’re virtue signaling instead of making a counter point.

[twilit gale]

@odd hull

[harsh yarrow]

which is stupid

[icy crow]

Dreamgates are limited in a few areas

[real hearth]

there’s people i’ve seen in here who struggle to hit groal with it.. everyone is different and limiting someone’s choices because of something that you’ve experienced is shitty imo

[opaque sigil]

It also encourages you to spend more time with just one crest which is going to make you less likely to then switch around

[trim estuary]

Why would I want to both learn and spend lockets on a new crest when I already have all the slots on this crest I know ??

[harsh yarrow]

Yeah

[opaque sigil]

Which is why they suck

[harsh yarrow]

I'll actually see about changing that for Silksoul, honestly

[clear fulcrum]

yeah it’s a reason that silksong’s exploration sucks compared to Hks

[fallow notch]

thats a good point actually didnt think about it

[harsh yarrow]

Eva is locked behind attunement though, so we'll have to see

[opaque sigil]

The Hunter upgrade stuff is just funny it’s not as bad

[graceful oyster]

Please do not mistake my words as having an opinion, I'm just talking about Nyleth here

[odd hull]

Imo putting a dream gate on stag doesn't seem very useful, traversing the world feels so bad anyways.

[real hearth]

i’m not trying to i apologize if it comes across that way

[harsh yarrow]

Considering the shear power of the Hunters Crest, I dont care

[graceful oyster]

This topic is soul draining and I have no skin in it

[fathom schooner]

Honestly i just find myself swapping between wanderer reaper and architect until i can get my hands on shaman again

[icy crow]

Anyways I'm gonna purify more of my Terrapeak world than watch this silly quarrel

[harsh yarrow]

I will forever main Witch and Hunter XD

[twilit gale]

Putting a dream gate on a stag has the EXACT same effect as beast song

[real hearth]

i lowkey am tapping out too can we talk about reaper crest

[trim estuary]

Can we call this the Reaper Fallacy or something stupid

[opaque sigil]

Eva unlocks straight up should just be based on crest unlocks not memory lockets at all, that would line up way more clearly with what she says than the current system

[real hearth]

dude

[fathom schooner]

Beast is interesting it just requires drill

[icy crow]

I should do a Shaman only run soon... would be fun I suppose

[harsh yarrow]

And Shamans, but its moveset urks me honestly

[fathom schooner]

Not even gonna lie it would be busted pretty much from the start

[sharp slate]

yea but when we are talking about balancing in a game we dont ignore what the top players can do as well

you need to account for both low and high skill players

[harsh yarrow]

Very! but thats the fun of it!

[trim estuary]

me and my friends were confused the entire game about what triggered her to unlock stuff

[fathom schooner]

Youd be outputting high damage silkspear from early game and then threadstorm as soon as possible

[clear fulcrum]

this is why drill is the best red took

[twilit gale]

How the fuck do you get there??? Craw lake didn't work

[real hearth]

i 100% agree

[icy crow]

It's like Mega Man X expect you attack way slower

[fathom schooner]

I love shaman but there's a reason we didn't get it till act 3

[opaque sigil]

Yeah it really doesn’t make sense

[clear fulcrum]

karmelita statue

[icy crow]

Silk Soar from the Karmelita statue

[harsh yarrow]

True

[twilit gale]

Where the fuck is karmelita?

[fathom schooner]

My first playthrough i thought it WAS based on new crests

[clear fulcrum]

hunters march

[toxic vigil]

far fields

[sharp slate]

kinda sad we didnt get shamans earlier, its a fun crest

[opaque sigil]

because that's what she says it is

[trim estuary]

you know the statue that looks exactly like that head and shows up on the map

[fathom schooner]

Shamans is my favorite crest

[twilit gale]

Ohhh I see the tiny karmelita symbol on the map

[fathom schooner]

I get the free damage button, the dash damage button, and the bug seeking electric missiles button

[twilit gale]

But how the fuck? They're like 30 billion miles from each other 😭

[fathom schooner]

Thats the fun part

[toxic vigil]

do all of hunter's march

[fathom schooner]

They are in fact, far from each other

[sharp slate]

for hitless so far i think top 3 crests have been hunter/wanderer/shaman all for different reasons though, hunter has damage boost, wanderer has vertical pogo which is good for consistency imo, shaman has versatility of have 3 silk skills (in my case cross sttich, dart and pale nails)

[twilit gale]

I don't wanna do savage beast fly there's a reason I've never beaten it😭

[fathom schooner]

You need to for 100%

[sharp slate]

interesting how much is viable at higher level

[leaden delta]

i had to walk away and do stuff but i still had my discord replying to this message so i might as well say my thoughts while i was working.
i think it really depends. like on subsequent playthroughs i really dont give a shit but i think that people have the freedom to do what they want, even if that kiiinda sucks sometimes. like taking ss if u dont like a certain boss yeah go ahead and tool spam i really dont care! i did that to groal myself. but i also get ur side. in an extreme case take a puzzle game like void stranger or baba is you, where said puzzles and discovery is part of the gameplay. so i really dont know

[fathom schooner]

Both the beastfly fights give an item required for 100%

[leaden delta]

tldr

[harsh yarrow]

jotted that down, will hopefully be happening in Silksoul

[fathom schooner]

And yeah beastfly is a little bitch if you dont go in there at needle TWO

[harsh yarrow]

Right now we're working on Fourth Chorus

very small changes for them

...their health miiiightve gone from 500 to 700...

[trim estuary]

Doesn’t matter. I will hit it with a rock

[fiery burrow]

close enough welcome back fraud

[sharp slate]

Overall i dont think state of redtools probably matters atm, but i think when godhome comes out it will

[harsh yarrow]

exactly

P1-3 now have all the health that p4 has

[sharp slate]

i really dont want to see sk godhome be unlimited shards tool spam

[twilit gale]

Are you fucking kidding me😭 why is the deep docks entrance blocked this is NOT infected crossroads😭

[harsh yarrow]

and p4s health stays the same

Fourth Chorus is also just faster

[fathom schooner]

Alot of bosses will likely get buffs/modifiers changed once godhome equivalent releases

[harsh yarrow]

I should finish up all the changes to Fourth Chorus

[trim estuary]

Team Cherry can alleviate all boss rush balancing concerns by making the boss rush a roguelite mode

[fathom schooner]

The number of bosses you are supposed to have max needle for is very few, but godhome expects the player to be maxed out

[opaque sigil]

look this could be fun but it's not really a replacement

[trim estuary]

Finally

[fathom schooner]

Why do i immediately like this idea

[real hearth]

that’s a fire idea ngl

[sharp slate]

yea they will adjust health, but im kinda worried of stuff like unlimited volt vessesl for exampl

[fiery burrow]

just don't make a boss rush lowk

[harsh yarrow]

nah

Game needs one eventually

[sharp slate]

if they dont make a boss rush im gonna be annoyed tbh

[fathom schooner]

Unlimited volt vessels wouldn't be too bad, id be more worried about things like conchcutters

[opaque sigil]

ss has the potential to make boss rushes more interesting since you can change your loadout more impactfully for certain stretches

[icy crow]

City of Steel should be the boss rush DLC

[opaque sigil]

p5 you barely change your loadout if at all

[fallow notch]

bro voltvessels are literal nukes when they are spammed 😭

[clear fulcrum]

Yeah! there’s lots of nuance when it comes to this discussion, which is why it’s frustrating that so many people think you’re elitist for pointing out potential flaws with the game design. You’re egotistical if you don’t agree with every decision the developers made, but you’re also egotistical if you want players to respect the developer’s vision by not cheating through parts of the game.

[harsh yarrow]

okayy, time to get back to buffing Fourth Chorus

We've gotten alot of it done, including its Silkheart

[sharp slate]

funny enough, unnamed for their hitless all bosses attempt changed their loadout alot for sk

[trim estuary]

ooo are you moving the bell beast heart to FC?

[sharp slate]

i ran the same shit for simplicity though

[clear fulcrum]

THIS IS WHY I THINK THE CITY OF STEEL DLC WILL BE OUR GODHOME!!

[opaque sigil]

I meant that in reference to hk in ss you'd have more reason to change things

[harsh yarrow]

Yep! as it was originally

[sharp slate]

yea defintely agree

[twilit gale]

Oh you've gotta be fucking kidding me. Out of all of the arenas they had to bring back the WORST ONE???

[real hearth]

we are ALL asking for a fourth chorus using the gem guys in
mount fay as the only platforms

[harsh yarrow]

makes more sense to me
Bell Beast unlocks you fast travel, Fourth Chorus gives you a Silkheart

[fathom schooner]

The stake requires the target to sit still/be slow/staggered, and the bolas have a very delayed blast, not to mention very low capacity, even if you get free tool refills you wouldn't ever have enough to make radiant bosses easy

[opaque sigil]

that does make a lot more sense bell beast having a silk heart is very random

[sharp slate]

tbh one thing i see people comment about on hk is that there are clear winners for hk charm loadouts, but i think its the same for silksong to be honest

[fallow notch]

i suppose

[sharp slate]

its just we dont have a godhome so people cant see the meta yet

[opaque sigil]

to a degree but it's less oppressive

[harsh yarrow]

I assume the change was made when TC realized that you might be able to beat the game without the Drifters Cloak

[clear fulcrum]

yeah but in HK you at least have enough charm slots to add some crappy charms ontop of them

[fathom schooner]

I feel like silksong has alot more variance because theres alot of very good tools and burst damage options

[harsh yarrow]

thats my only guess

[opaque sigil]

ok but they have no qualms with letting you miss unravelled's silk heart

[sharp slate]

i think the blues are insanely oppressive, with reds theres more flexability and yellows just dont matter, silk skills... more flexability

[twilit gale]

Oh I beat it first try nvm

[harsh yarrow]

you just need one silkheart for clawlines though

[sharp slate]

sawtooth, egg, volt, long claw for high level play

[opaque sigil]

yeah I can agree there though with blues it also sorta depends on what crest

[harsh yarrow]

2 is nice to have, but not needed

[fathom schooner]

Like witch crest can output over 150 damage per bind, but wanderer can output over 200 damage in about a second or 2 with circlet pogos

[opaque sigil]

sure but they could let you miss it and realize you might need another ability if you can't do that platforming

[sharp slate]

tbh i think its the same for most crests besides witch/architect, but thats due to witches gimmick and obviously architect doesnt run volt

[fathom schooner]

And then architect can throw literally every conchcutter in existence in 5 seconds

[cosmic flume]

hello

[toxic vigil]

its definitely less " Do i want mop or more soul " vs a bit more in sk, especially with reds

[graceful oyster]

Wanderer? Circlet pogos?
Witch does circlet pogos AND high damage binding

[harsh yarrow]

god

Debug Mod and Vitaxses QOL my beloved

[cosmic flume]

anyone know how to get pass the one of the melodies in act 2?

[sharp slate]

i honestly think alot of people underestimate other builds in hk p5 as well

everyone talks about the meta when quick focus would benefit newer players to the boss rush alot more

[opaque sigil]

you could run fluke nest or qf or whatever sure

[fathom schooner]

If witch wants that massive bind damage they dont have a slot for circlet, wanderer gets more damage by having an faster attack to pogo with (and less range, so they dont miss the circlet jump after a pogo)

[cosmic flume]

i use family renuinon as a build in p5

[sharp slate]

fair reds/silk skils is where is see most diversity

[harsh yarrow]

fun fact of the day

[opaque sigil]

which is good

[fiery burrow]

Volt filament is the craziest fumble of balancing ever why did they do that

[harsh yarrow]

The Fourth Choruses Abdomen is canonically its butt.

[toxic vigil]

witch has 3 blues
4th with vesti

[fathom schooner]

Silk skills stop being fair the moment you talk about endgame where basically all of them do over 100 damage

[opaque sigil]

idc volt filament is cool as hell

[graceful oyster]

Mirrors, multibinder, circlet, and room for one more

[opaque sigil]

if you don't run volt filament and volt spear don't talk to me you aren't fit to breathe the same air

[fathom schooner]

Mirrors, multibinder, injector band, reserve bind

[fiery burrow]

the aesthetic is cool

[barren dew]

Hi

[graceful oyster]

2 of those are pointless for damage

Hi bon

[sharp slate]

i need to do some test runs with witch, tbh i think its will be interesting for hitless, but i feel like i wont use bind that much because i use silkskills alot

[toxic vigil]

why reserve bind

[fiery burrow]

shaman stone should've had shaman crest runes on your spells

[odd hull]

I don't feel like arguing much. SK map and movement imo improves a lot in traversing and as such Beast Call feels rewarding. While Dream Gate can't provide a meaningful enough impact during late game in my experience — still a slog to walk through anywhere. Being able to put a portal anywhere doesn't make it any better. Well, I think it's my hk hate bleeding

[barren dew]

Hi grynne

[sharp slate]

witch seems very dangerous for hitless imo

it will probably be crest i test next after shamans hitless all bosses is done

[fathom schooner]

Use silk skills without worry of not being able to heal

[opaque sigil]

using the bind certainly, idk how the moveset would really compare

[real hearth]

i think the biggest problem with dreamgate is it’s so limiting that there’s only like three areas you can put the dreamgate and you still have to traverse the rest of the massive ass map

[fathom schooner]

Witch is scary because its pogo is wonky with some hitboxes

[toxic vigil]

why use silk skills on witch

[graceful oyster]

I also do this without reserve bind because you get silk when you hit the enemy

[harsh yarrow]

Range, mostly

[clear fulcrum]

yeah it’s really just a band aid

[fathom schooner]

Because you can pry my silk skills from my cold dead hands

[harsh yarrow]

And a bind is expensive

[stable belfry]

where do i find gromlings in act 3?

[opaque sigil]

if you're hitlessing with witch bind also doesn't heal you

[sharp slate]

movement, iframes

[fathom schooner]

Im taking my sharpdart/cross stich, and nothing will stop me

[toxic vigil]

dreamgate > beastling call tbh

[sharp slate]

witch would benefit for slotting in sharpdart or cross stitchi mo

[harsh yarrow]

I perfer Beastlings Call

[graceful oyster]

Skills are cheaper and output a lot of damage quickly and safely (plus, cross stitch)

[harsh yarrow]

less versitile, but its far more useful overall

[odd hull]

Yeeeeeeep.

[toxic vigil]

well
at that point why run witch

[harsh yarrow]

because you dont have to set its position

[fathom schooner]

Sharpdart can put you in a stupidly good spot to bind

[sharp slate]

yea im debating if i would even use bind in hitless, im curious if its just better to use silk skills seems safer

[opaque sigil]

if only it worked in abyss for you to leave ll

[clear fulcrum]

is there any reason to use cross stitch over sharpdart

[graceful oyster]

Circlet pogos and dash attack and 4 blue slots

[fathom schooner]

Cross stich has a faster windup

[bleak gazelle]

Trobbio mirrors are like the only thing that makes witch bind usable

[harsh yarrow]

Theres a massive vein of lava above the Abyss, how tf are the beastlings getting down there? XD\

[bleak gazelle]

And multibind too I guess

[fathom schooner]

Cross stitch is nearly instant, sharpdart takes about half a second to make you invulnerable dash

[graceful oyster]

[opaque sigil]

they've got very sturdy shells

[toxic vigil]

then don't use a bind build and use circlet volt flealia and snitch pick

[clear fulcrum]

and they lwk make witch boring

[sharp slate]

this will probably be my hitless build for witch i need to think on it more

[fathom schooner]

Id argue that without witch no one would use mirrors so

[real hearth]

the real answer is being able to bench fast travel after getting the true ending

[graceful oyster]

Yes. Not sure why this needed to be said

[sharp slate]

cross stitch is basically your defensive iframe skill while sharpdart is and offensive iframe skill

[real hearth]

but only after

[opaque sigil]

true but tc are cowards

[clear fulcrum]

which is way cooler

[fathom schooner]

Sharpdart also does more damage

[harsh yarrow]

makign that make sense is hard

[sharp slate]

yea, imo sharpdart has a higher skill ceiling as well

[harsh yarrow]

Fast travel to BELL benches?

Sure, that works imo

[sharp slate]

the way you can optimize damage with sharpdart is so interesting

[bleak gazelle]

Cross stitch gives more i frames and is a lot easier to use, but sharpdart ends fight earlier if you’re skilled enough

[opaque sigil]

if the beastlings can fetch hornet from anywhere they could take her anywhere

[fathom schooner]

Sharpdart also helps you out of bad positioning

[sharp slate]

sharpdart propaganda

[fathom schooner]

Oh no a corner go THROUGH them

[real hearth]

i’m sure they’ll come around someday

[toxic vigil]

cross stitch is a lot faster due to 0 wind up so you can be more aggressive, meanwhile sharpdart forces you to use it earlier but gives you control earlier

[opaque sigil]

at least it's better than sharp shadow

or shade cloak in general

[sharp slate]

god spogo feels SOOO dangerous, im doing a hitless test run of witch atm

[harsh yarrow]

True I guess

[fathom schooner]

Sharp dart is more i wanna go through you versus cross stitch is fuck i cant dodge that

[toxic vigil]

spogo reaper also exists

[harsh yarrow]

but then how to do you know where Hornet wants to go?

Without making it a menu

[graceful oyster]

You have to get a feel for each enemy's patterns

[odd hull]

Real

[rocky jolt]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/emojis/769268245457928242.gif?size=240&quality=lossless

[graceful oyster]

Reaper and Beast's spogos are very slow in comparison

[icy crow]

https://tenor.com/view/pixel-8-bit-dancing-meme-oppa-gangnam-style-gif-12270865314097625815

[fathom schooner]

We dont pogo as beast, we drill

[leaden delta]

yessssss but i feel like you came off as really pushy and elitist with the other end about not wanting players to cheat/not engage

[graceful oyster]

Good heavens I seem to be talking about crests again yikes
Time for me to go

[opaque sigil]

she could just be directing them around I don't really think it fails to pass suspension of disbelief it's not like mommy bell beast has a map hornet points to for her to know where to go

[leaden delta]

tc shouldve made tools better gg

[rocky jolt]

https://tenor.com/view/chinese-money-yuan-money-bill-evil-gif-7399589

[golden crater]

mommy bell....??

[fathom schooner]

Buff pimpillo, i am not biased at all

[toxic vigil]

the pimpillo is like okay

[opaque sigil]

pimpillo is fine

[rocky jolt]

pimpillo is op

[leaden delta]

nope stfu dont wanna hear it i meant game design

[fathom schooner]

Pimpillo outputs some crazy damage for how easy it is to use

[leaden delta]

tools r already stupid as fuck

[fathom schooner]

Also make groal choke is funny

[toxic vigil]

its like 500 total

[golden crater]

nah they are cool

[leaden delta]

i hate them and i wish they went more in the direction of delver's drill. but thats another convo

[toxic vigil]

i mean
nerf others

[fathom schooner]

But its AOE

[icy crow]

@exotic cedar Hallow is quite literally almost gone

[rocky jolt]

i just bought more land in the metaverse

[fathom schooner]

Take those to the high halls gauntlet and they just delete the cogfly dudes spawns and then they die

[subtle skiff]

My condolences

[opaque sigil]

it was probably hella cheap

[golden crater]

i bought a property in egypt, and what they do for you is they give you the property

[subtle skiff]

I would certainly hope so, actually, did zuck not shut it down i dont remember

[dusty wind]

what do u guys think about my huntr crest build

[toxic vigil]

flea brew instead of flintslate?

[dusty wind]

yeah

[rocky jolt]

peakdart mentioned

[subtle skiff]

I thought he pulled the plug a couple months ago after burning a chill 80 billion but I could be misremembering

[opaque sigil]

decent, I don't like flea brew in general but if you don't mind the inconvenience

[dusty wind]

hunter crest passive alr has a damage boost by itself and im super good at the game

[twilit gale]

The knight would mog sprintmaster swift in a race with c dash

[golden crater]

amigo....where is el magneto?

[opaque sigil]

maybe idk

[dusty wind]

peak

[exotic cedar]

nice

[dusty wind]

why would i use coin magnet

[hybrid flare]

OMW to invest 2 trillion into some sloppy tech that's trending (my company killed thousands of overworked people and i didn't reap any profits)

[twilit gale]

Sp*nish? MODS GET HIM

[clever cliff]

pretty good

[dusty wind]

flea brew is one of my favs but everyoen has a different opinion

[toxic vigil]

i guess it is better due to more duration

[subtle skiff]

It was even worse, the metaverse idea wasnt even trending it was straight up dead on arrival

[hybrid flare]

Just like AI kinda

[opaque sigil]

not at all, people actually use that

[dusty wind]

fav silk skill guys? for me its silk spear or sharp dart

[hybrid flare]

Chatbots but the thought of having it integrated into EVERYTHING is something repulsive for most people

[subtle skiff]

Well they also have no choice for most of it but yeah LLMs actually do see users

[opaque sigil]

there's probably some sample bias at play here

[sharp slate]

my god i suck at witch crest for hitless

[hybrid flare]

Would anyone like ai generated movies

[subtle skiff]

Theyre not profitable and never will be and openai is going to go under but yknow, atleast they saw users and made bank by scamming investors

[sharp slate]

noice good build

[hybrid flare]

Would anyone like to get fired for the ai to perform 3x worse

[night vector]

Woah what the hell is gaster speaking

[opaque sigil]

that's a whole different statement

[hybrid flare]

That's what they do yeah

[hybrid flare]

That's what im referring to kinda

[night vector]

Is he listening me behind me is he aware of my existence

[rocky jolt]

https://tenor.com/bLzKN.gif

[toxic vigil]

do you know the tech to get more needle dps

[subtle skiff]

Honestly not really tho, the subsection of ai dislikers is big and loud enough for companies like microsoft to actually make direct statements adressing it and cut down on its integration

[rocky jolt]

me

[toxic vigil]

hating ai is the majority

[twilit gale]

✞︎☜︎☼︎✡︎ ✋︎☠︎❄︎☜︎☼︎☜︎💧︎❄︎✋︎☠︎☝︎

[night vector]

I mean that's scary

[opaque sigil]

I'm not saying there aren't people vocal about it but would not claim most people hate it or really have a strong opinion on it without some better data

[sharp slate]

ik some of the basic stuff like clawline dash attack combo, easy one not rdac and spogo

[night vector]

I tried to see some gaster secrets and completely fucked my files and all

[twilit gale]

Microslop wouldn't care about listening to consumers even if 99% of them said to remove AI

[subtle skiff]

We do have data in the windows space atleast, microsoft is actively cutting down copilot because straight up no one liked it

[subtle skiff]

But they literally are lol

[hybrid flare]

they're removing ai because its losing them money

[subtle skiff]

Obviously theyre not removing AI entirely, no company would at this point yet, but they are cutting it down atleast somewhat

[heady iron]

10 trillion more gallons of water and we'll have true agi just trust me bro

The world will become bilewater but it'll totally worth it

[subtle skiff]

Theyre all losing money the AI market is entirely based on waiting for the bubble to pop and emerging as one of the few standing in the hope of monopolizing lol

[twilit gale]

They're not removing it because no one is using it, they're removing it because people are switching over to Linux and Mac because of every other garbage thing they've added.

[subtle skiff]

And it'll work because alphabet/microsoft have so much money that they could not care less about losing some to build data Centers

[hybrid flare]

They're the stupid companies this whole investment scandal is made for

They're just realizing they wont get shit from actually doing something with it

[hybrid flare]

That has been happening for a while actually, windows 11 was so ass that people straight up refused

genuinely how do you make an OS so bad people start getting out of their comfort zone and bothering to change up

[versed pollen]

By making an OS that doesn't work

[dusty wind]

sawtooth players operate on a different plane istg

idk how you guys do it

[hybrid flare]

mash key

[subtle skiff]

Yeah and since people stopped using it they are adjusting by doing things like cutting down on AI, theyd cut down other stuff aswell but they probably straight up cant since the windows kernel codebase is so shit

[versed pollen]

The whole point of Windows is that it's easy and it works. If you take that away it's nothing

[heady iron]

Only because there's rust code in it

[versed pollen]

Rust is woke and woke is bad

Knowledge for your mind

[subtle skiff]

Thats what you get for building on a single closed source kernel since like 96 and being too lazy to properly structure your shit

Hey rust is great smh

[versed pollen]

Jngo you insulted Rust while a Rust dev is in chat you must prepare for your reckoning

[heady iron]

I thought you were supposed to hate the thing you play/use

[versed pollen]

That's a good point

[unkempt steeple]

Rust is goonerslop (never played it)

[subtle skiff]

Normally yes but rust just hasnt seen enough industry adoption for all the rust people to have to maintain legacy codebases yet

[heady iron]

I've done some embedded gamedev with it for rpi and it was cool

Working without a stdlib is interesting

[smoky dagger]

Is rust even a real game I thought it was like videos made in blender with stock assets

[versed pollen]

So the best way to like your programming language is to program is something that sees no use

[subtle skiff]

Yeah weve done some embedded stuff for it aswell its quite cool, ive also dabbled in uefi stuff although i must say you definitely notice that those crate implementations are copied from C, raw rust pointer usage is just not pretty lol,
((*struct).function-pointer)(args) is certainly a choice

[smoky dagger]

How can you say this but not the goob lagoon water park that from caseohs waterpark sim

Oh ig you can now it was banned

[twilit gale]

Oh no do I have to fight that annoying gauntlet everytime before karmelita?

[heady iron]

Rust is too mainstream anyway, Zig is where it's at

[smoky dagger]

Oh I'm in sk disc

[versed pollen]

Obscure language -> Gets popular -> Move to more obscure language -> ....

[smoky dagger]

Oh the other one is dead makes sense

[subtle skiff]

Unironically yes

[smoky dagger]

Make your own and teach no one

Imo

[smoky dagger]

Nah the only one where you have to do an annoying gauntlet before each fight is the krab guy

King Krablante

[versed pollen]

Okay chat do we know of a single project that uses Elixir

[heady iron]

Cause if you make software that people use then you'll get constructive criticism and that's not good for my ego

[odd hull]

Why does Hornet float with her cloak instead of using a parachute made of silk smh

TC misses so many opportunities

[twilit gale]

So you're hating on hk AND sk?

[odd hull]

Huh, who

[twilit gale]

Why doesn't she just make a nuclear bomb out of silk? Missed opportunity ngl

[subtle skiff]

This is why you only make software for other tech oriented people iirc, atleast that way you mostly actually get constructive criticism and not "it dont work, fix it"

[versed pollen]

Suckless org bruh

[odd hull]

Spiders irl float with silk tho

[twilit gale]

Damn why is old karmelita so fat?

[subtle skiff]

Suckless should try making good software iirc

[heady iron]

I'll just ask chatgpt if my code is good

[opaque sigil]

Snare setter being the closest thing to a spider web trap

[versed pollen]

Fuuuuck but dmenu kind of rocks though

[odd hull]

Truee lol

[hybrid flare]

styx's big web thing:

[subtle skiff]

Ill give you dmenu its actually not bad lol although I still prefer rofi

[twilit gale]

Question about history, if a slave has children during slavery, do the children also become slaves? (Totally not related to bell beast)

[versed pollen]

I used rofi a lot before but I remember having a few gripes which I have now forgotten

[odd hull]

Huh
That depends on the time period and country

[versed pollen]

I don't think there is a simple yes or no answer to this question

[subtle skiff]

Ngl both have always worked ootb for me rofi is just quicker to make look pretty lmao

[twilit gale]

What about kingdoms like pharloom?

[opaque sigil]

slavery has taken a lot of different forms throughout history but in general I believe mostly the children of slaves would be slaves

[hybrid flare]

Yes in pharloom citadel pilgrims were chillin in the citadel

[heady iron]

Can't believe there are gr*phical user interface users in chat

[hybrid flare]

and their children too

[versed pollen]

Bro using Discord through TTY

[subtle skiff]

Jngo rocking straight tty i respect it

[versed pollen]

Graphics are bloat???

More likely than you think

Computers were made to be used from the TTY with ed as the only text editor

[subtle skiff]

The way our godfathers at bell-labs intended 🙏

[versed pollen]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/677990379148017735/1494814263343059114/IMG_6316.gif

[odd hull]

TC should hire me

[subtle skiff]

They didnt even have Claude back then how did unix ever get done, probably didnt even have a scrum master either smh

[smoky dagger]

stupid cookie that I hate

(I don't have him)

[versed pollen]

I feel like TC considered this but decided the floating Hornet cloak was funnier

[versed pollen]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1318001716318437447/1487493401241845810/IMG_5676.gif

[versed pollen]

Now what the hell is scrum master

[heady iron]

One of my art mutuals makes interesting crk drawings

[versed pollen]

Should I or should I not express interest in elaboration

[subtle skiff]

Its the person the companies pays way too much money so they can make sure youre properly applying agile principles, so iirc they do fucking nothing

[fiery burrow]

who is that

[opaque sigil]

that is too fun a name for that

[heady iron]

No cause if you saw them you'd be like

[timid sky]

Woah its tomodachi living life the dream

tomodachi live

[heady iron]

I'm not gonna post the gif cause I don't even wanna see it

[timid sky]

live
from adrenaline ep

[wheat eagle]

Anything but sk in this chat

[mental snow]

What if Wispfire Lantern summoned 15 Wisps per Silk strand

[hybrid flare]

it would be loosely mediocre

[leaden delta]

yea bc why would we talk abt a bad game

[mental snow]

What if they all did 40 damage

[wheat eagle]

ITS NOT EVEN THAT BAD

[leaden delta]

recency bias

[wheat eagle]

Quiet, WOMAN

[subtle skiff]

https://www.scrum.org/resources/what-is-a-scrum-master you can read up on it here, although the TLDR is that they literally do fuck-all besides make sure you actually join the daily-standup

[versed pollen]

Shadow Milk Cookie from Cookie Run but in Tomodachi Life

[mental snow]

Fun fact: If you collect all available Rosaries up to the hidden passage above the Flea Caravan in The Marrow, and bought the Magnetite Brooch, you'll have a grand total of 67 Rosaries.

[halcyon socket]

halo

[clear fulcrum]

Yeah the reason I come off as pushy is because the HK fanbase expects players to blindly agree with the idea of accessibility. “anyone can play how they want” is just a subtle way of saying that they don’t respect video games as an artistic medium. You wouldn’t try to defend someone who cut out the atom bomb scene from Oppenheimer. The only reason people act that way here is because they don’t respect video games, and they’ll project their ego and defensiveness onto you.

[opaque sigil]

what is shadow milk

[hybrid flare]

oddly specific steps

[mental snow]

Then you get 69 after picking up the 2 Rosaries to the right.

[versed pollen]

"Scrum master" is definitely way too fun of a name for this job I agree

[fiery burrow]

cookie run is a psyop no one has actually played that game bro

[wheat eagle]

Shut up Deku

Mha is ass

[fiery burrow]

same with umumaamasumasumasume

[versed pollen]

I really do not know

[opaque sigil]

Yeah the reason I come off as pushy is because the HK fanbase expects players to blindly agree with the idea of accessibility. “anyone can play how they want” is just a subtle way of saying that they don’t respect video games as an artistic medium. You wouldn’t try to defend someone who cut out the atom bomb scene from Oppenheimer. The only reason people act that way here is because they don’t respect video games, and they’ll project their ego and defensiveness onto you.

[heady iron]

The biggest fans of cookie run have never played the game

[vivid belfry]

it's like lacroix, they make it by putting water in the shadow of a cow so it's imbued with the essence of milk

[fiery burrow]

Video games are the lowest form of art sorry not sorry

[subtle skiff]

New copy pasta just dropped

[wheat eagle]

[fiery burrow]

SO true

[mental snow]

Anyway I'm gonna go kill Seth in Act 1

[hybrid flare]

Video games are a peak artistic medium fym

[versed pollen]

Once again, why would I have any respect for art that was made in C#

[subtle skiff]

This is incredibly true

[versed pollen]

https://tenor.com/view/that's-not-ridiculous-to-say-that's-not-ridiculous-chilltownhoops-playerschoice-unc-gif-17749542178366202764

[halcyon socket]

have fun

[heady iron]

Idk I'd definitely put crazy cattle 3d on the same level as Shakespeare and Michaelangelo's works

[mental snow]

I won't when I need to get Faydown lol

[heady iron]

Can't believe you hate Celeste

[versed pollen]

Wasn't Celeste made in C++

[heady iron]

Nope

[mental snow]

Every time I read Shakra's line of "Wielding Rings", I keep reading it as "Wedding Rings"

[heady iron]

Fake fan

[versed pollen]

Guess it goes to show how little I respect video games

[opaque sigil]

'child wedding rings' is VERY different

oh wait that's the needle

[fiery burrow]

video games are just one of the lower forms of art imo, it seems more focused on the fun of gameplay than the beauty of art, some games are good but usually they're more a mix of games and another medium like E33. books, TV, and music > video games any day

[versed pollen]

Child wedding needle

[opaque sigil]

whatever nobody reads shitslop lines anyways

[versed pollen]

Books aren't art because it's just writing on a page

[heady iron]

E33 is a modern art classic

[fiery burrow]

E33 was good cuz it came with an 8 hour album and is basically a movie

[hybrid flare]

Its ofc a very low art medium when you larp as an indie and try to come off as artistic while being generic which consists of most video games but there are select few that are worth a look

[vivid belfry]

the fun of gameplay and the beauty of art are the same thing

[fiery burrow]

you haven't played it pipe down bro

[heady iron]

And yet people say mixtape is bad, curious!!!!

[hybrid flare]

Like overall it's really not the best artistic medium but impressive artistic value can be extracted

[opaque sigil]

and both are in fact subjective

[hybrid flare]

Doesn't make me wrong

[versed pollen]

Do you guys think Hotline Miami is artistic larp

[fiery burrow]

lemme tell you about picture books

[opaque sigil]

2d so yes

[versed pollen]

fuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuck

[vivid belfry]

the purpose of art is to ellicit an emotional response and there's no reason to categorize fun as a lower value form of emotion

[hybrid flare]

Also to launder money but some aren't ready for this convo

[opaque sigil]

every new medium has the 'is it really art' phase

[fiery burrow]

art is supposed to disturb the comforted and comfort the disturbed.

fun video games don't do that

[versed pollen]

Art is supposed to kill small children

[fiery burrow]

which is why unfun video games like rain world are usually considered to be the best in the medium

[vivid belfry]

art is supposed to KILL the comfortable and MAIM the disturbed

[opaque sigil]

is this the part where you shill saeko

[icy granite]

"Dear Players,

Unfortunately the reason why Sea of Sorrow is taking so long is because we've actually run out of water. Yes, Ai has dried all of the water we were going to use in Sea of Sorrow. We at team cherry apologize for the insane inconvenience, so instead, we'll be dropping Zoteboat this fall! Instead of water it will be replaced with the bodies of the Pale Kings kin!

Thank you for understanding.

Sincerely, Team Cherry"

Or something like that

[heady iron]

This is why call of duty is good, because the general populace (comforted) is horrified by war and veterans have ptsd (disturbed)

[vivid belfry]

no because I didn't want to trigger a discussion about if visual novels are video games

[fiery burrow]

sure wonder what team cherry is using that could drain water

[hybrid flare]

It is entirely possible to do both lmao

[versed pollen]

Doesn't this happen in Battle Toads

[opaque sigil]

oh but you should definitely do that (the answer is yes)

also doesn't saeko actually have gameplay

[vivid belfry]

no

it has routes

[fiery burrow]

name a fun game that has disturbed you

[hybrid flare]

bloodborne

[fiery burrow]

I will be posting the spongebob rollercoaster gif btw

[fiery burrow]

https://tenor.com/search/spongebob-gifs

[hybrid flare]

Not disturbed really but like

[versed pollen]

Oh my god you fucking chud

[fiery burrow]

RATS

whatever bro

[hybrid flare]

The dogs in that game made me feel such anger

[icy granite]

Instead of Sea of Sorrow it's just like Cave of Sorrow

[fiery burrow]

https://giphy.com/gifs/spongebob-hi-instagram-rollercoaster-ws8eNgHLnhF8VhOPni

[hybrid flare]

i would make them extinct to not interact with them again

[hybrid flare]

What artistic medium has ever touched you

[mental snow]

Oh yeah since you can access Underworks via Thicket without triggering Act 2, that means you can get Sawtooth Circlet in Act 1

[vivid belfry]

the secret to obliterate every discussion about the horror genre

[versed pollen]

He's facts you know

[opaque sigil]

ok but there are a handful of good resident evils

[fiery burrow]

spoken word russian ambient

[heady iron]

When Bloodborne fans explain how the game accurately depicts the horrifying nature of the female body

[versed pollen]

This is because women are horrific beasts

[tired oyster]

true

[sharp slate]

witch crest is stealing my soul

[hybrid flare]

You don't actually have feelings it shouldn't be possible

[versed pollen]

Emotions are just a bunch of chemicals so actually art doesn't exist at all!

[hybrid flare]

[fiery burrow]

https://tenor.com/view/no-more-mrnice-guy-gif-5514575174069255156

[hybrid flare]

TRUE

Brain is just mid

[heady iron]

Bloodborne is about femininity while Sekiro is about masculinity, glad to see fromsoft understood what made games great again

[fiery burrow]

oh like SS and HK

[hybrid flare]

and also about uh fascism

[versed pollen]

Notice how they refuse to port Bloodboune to any medium

[heady iron]

Except team cherry went the opposite route

[fiery burrow]

jack septic eye save us

[hybrid flare]

because hornet himmler wrote something in her book "mein slabf"

Calling others chud but likes deltarune 🤤

[heady iron]

They got a male streamer to produce a movie on bloodborne 😭 😭 😭

[granite ridge]

Nitro is actually goated

[versed pollen]

HORNET HIMMLER OH MY GOD

[heady iron]

Isn't himmler that guy from frieren

[hybrid flare]

💔

[versed pollen]

Something like that

Himmler the hero

https://tenor.com/view/metal-gear-rising-hmm-thinking-smile-gif-12571277

[hybrid flare]

Did we fall so low

[heady iron]

I should dip

[rocky jolt]

https://x.com/i/status/2055944878622753117

The Battat Breeder (@meepnesscombat)

X · May 17, 2026, 9:33 AM

[clear fulcrum]

nuh uh

[smoky dagger]

My hero acedamia more like my hero stupid

[lean pendant]

Would Hornet eat Korean BBQ?

[lusty grove]

Hornet doesn't eat

[long grove]

[lean pendant]

She feeds on aura.

[long grove]

she's cooking for sea of sorrow

[lusty grove]

Hornet is just constantly starving

she's depressed and the last time she ate a full meal was when Pale King was alive

[long grove]

clearly farming aura then

[rocky jolt]

constantly high on potenuse

[tiny siren]

Does any1 else think hollowknight does the spell to heal thing better than silksong? Like in terms of soul/silk being used for them

[lusty grove]

no

[lean pendant]

Fun Fact: In any city of more than 1,000,000 people, it is guaranteed that at least 2 people in said city have the exact same amount of hairs on their head.

[potent vessel]

thats a cool fact, im stealing it

[lean pendant]

https://tenor.com/view/cat-thumbs-up-thumbs-up-cat-thumbs-up-meme-gif-5676038700371371386

[lusty grove]

guaranteed? like 100% chance?

there are only 1 million possible hair amounts for humans?

[potent vessel]

he might mean bald people lowkey

[lean pendant]

Yeah

[lusty grove]

you can have 1 million non-bald people

[subtle skiff]

That is a very cool example of the pigeonhole principle

[rocky jolt]

https://x.com/i/status/2052180501520171425

BlueSR (@BlueGoesFast)

the most Aura speedrun clip in silksong history

(it's a little slower than the other strat and took me 30min to hit a single time)

▶ Play video

X · May 7, 2026, 12:15 AM

[whole moon]

What

[oblique hawk]

Is the silksong dlc coming soon?

[subtle skiff]

Maybe

[oblique hawk]

No date?

[sharp slate]

within 6 months i would guess

[oblique hawk]

Ah kk

[lean pendant]

https://tenor.com/view/sea-if-sorrow-silksong-tomorrow-hollow-knight-gif-12013056154277092895

[verbal trench]

sil son

[lusty grove]

it's coming this year

[candid estuary]

[broken seal]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1332161685196374095/1380557384476262512/attachment.gif

[verbal trench]

too many pronouns in this "silk" "song". unbelievable

[midnight magnet]

Thats crazy

[candid estuary]

Soon when Rockstar team says it

[slender juniper]

Silksong is anti-woke

Hornet/gms are homophobic and racist , the weavers are toxic immigrants, Garmond is a slave owner, cursed ending is abortion propaganda,act 3 is genocide

[verbal trench]

according to the alignment of the planets sea of sorrow came out yesterday

[midnight magnet]

Do you guys think sea of sorrow will feature my favourite country

[slender juniper]

No

[light swan]

@midnight magnet buggy

[lusty grove]

Garmond is a wha

[midnight magnet]

Hello illusion

[slender juniper]

A slave owner and animal abuser

[midnight magnet]

Do you like america

[light swan]

shut the bug up

[light swan]

hell yes!

[lusty grove]

what. Garmond would never

[midnight magnet]

🦅

[lost raven]

help, im new in silksong and ive been playing for 48 hours straight

[light swan]

for purple mountain majesties above the fruited plain america america god shed his grace on thee

[slender juniper]

Then why does he make zaza carry something 3 times her mass all day

[candid estuary]

Well in this case it's like
HELL YEAA🦅 🦅 🦅

[slender juniper]

[midnight magnet]

Which founding father is your favourite one

[orchid locust]

@light swan @verbal trench thoughts?

[lost raven]

i feel like a addict

[light swan]

i don’t want to be here any more

[verbal trench]

i have a couple thoughts yeah

[light swan]

benjammin franklin

[midnight magnet]

Goodbye illusion MAY TRUMP BLESS YOU 🔥

[candid estuary]

Good

[verbal trench]

some are bouncing around in my head

[lusty grove]

first of all,

[slender juniper]

WHAAAAAT

[orchid locust]

john deere

[light swan]

should i stay

[slender juniper]

I MISGENDERED A BUG

[midnight magnet]

May your oil be plentiful.

[lost raven]

ive done every single thing the monster diary, every optional bosses and normal bosses

[opaque sigil]

why is mor ardain so long for no reason

[candid estuary]

Peak

[light swan]

poptlc 60% off

[lost raven]

i fear i have no more social life

[candid estuary]

Normal

Your getting good

[orchid locust]

@midnight magnet whats your favorite state

[opaque sigil]

yeah it does that a lot

[midnight magnet]

TEXAS

[candid estuary]

https://tenor.com/view/hornet-git-gud-hollow-knight-gif-487380231553167495

Eh

[lusty grove]

secondly, Zaza is free to just leave if he wanted to, but he doesn't, cuz he loves Garmond
and Garmond is not that bigger than Zaza

[light swan]

anyone who likes alaska is a bum

[verbal trench]

i'm pretty fond of plasma but solid is cool too

[light swan]

we love minnesoda

[lusty grove]

how did you even come to the conclusion that Zaza was a she

[lost raven]

Absolute awo

[orchid locust]

plasma is fire

[light swan]

i hate alaska

[lost raven]

https://tenor.com/view/silksong-flea-awoo-absolute-cinema-absolute-awoo-gif-13929526023089152064

[opaque sigil]

alaska isn't even real

[orchid locust]

Literally

[light swan]

goodbye everyone.

[slender juniper]

Abusive relationship zaza should leave him

[candid estuary]

[lost raven]

aw i cant send gifs

[candid estuary]

Same

[verbal trench]

me and my sister are gonna go see obsession today, pretty excited

[odd hull]

?tag permpsa

[white sail]

Why can't I access VC / Post Images?

In order to prevent Scammers and Raiders we have locked Voice Chat usage and Image permissions behind a 150 and 300 messages milestone respectively.

• To check your message count simply go to the server's search bar and type From:@me.

• If you have already reached the requirements and don't have the roles feel free to DM @frosty pelican (NOT TICKETTOOL) or any available Moderator, if ModMail is down; with your total message count, More info in #support-and-faq.

  • NOTE: If you are DMing a mod, please make sure they are accepting DMs, check their server bio.

• Mutes, Kicks and Bans reset your score and you will have have to start again.

⚠️ Artificially increasing message count is considered spam.

[candid estuary]

Btw i js found out that poison thing makes the flea potion leave poison aura

[slender juniper]

Garmond deserved to die(bait)

[candid estuary]

Like that oen charm that I forgot in hk

[lost raven]

oooohh thats cool

[lusty grove]

ragebait used to be believable

[slender juniper]

Believable used to be bait

[lost raven]

i never played the first hollow knight

[verbal trench]

ragebait used to be. or not? that truly is the question

[lost raven]

my husband just said look this new game its called silksong

[candid estuary]

You should try

[lost raven]

and i was like wow she is so cute imma play

[lost raven]

and now here i am

[candid estuary]

The knight is better

Silksong tutorial is hk

Well imma go sleep now

Gn hoomanz

[verbal trench]

wow i've been in the server for almost 5 years that's crazy

[midnight magnet]

Does it make you feel AMERICAN ?! 🇺🇸 🦅

[charred tiger]

sea of sorrow boss removes 5 lines of code each time you get hit

[glossy nebula]

What is my silky channel on now

[glossy nebula]

I wiuld love eating a picture of obama

[charred tiger]

american bugs when they learn about rosary cannons

and pale OIL

[glossy nebula]

Pharloom bugs when they see hornet comming with a gun

[glossy nebula]

Hallownest when they hear gms has oil

[lean pendant]

https://tenor.com/view/ss-silk-song-silksong-skong-gif-9056276688868888316

[clear fulcrum]

well i mean it’s kinda true right? the only reason he dies is because of his own choice to not rest..

[glossy nebula]

Garmond doesnt die

He is just taking a nap

[clear fulcrum]

yes he does?m

[glossy nebula]

Not confirmed

[clear fulcrum]

okay

[glossy nebula]

I can stick to hope

[exotic cedar]

garmond deserves death because he almost ruined my rasher quest

[glossy nebula]

Garmond is the best boss in my rando run

[charred tiger]

garmond easiest boss oat btw

[glossy nebula]

Yes and he is kinda fun

[charred tiger]

(the act 2 one)

[glossy nebula]

His movement is fun

[charred tiger]

why is he so weak

[glossy nebula]

Because he fights alongsides us

[clear fulcrum]

rhats kinda the point

[glossy nebula]

And unlike shakra he cant fly

[clear fulcrum]

he’s weak and yet he still makes it to the citadel due to pure confidence

[glossy nebula]

He isnt weak

[clear fulcrum]

he’s weak and he still helps fight the void

[clear fulcrum]

yes he is 😭

[glossy nebula]

He is strong

Stronger than most pilgrims

And his duty is to protect those in need

[clear fulcrum]

kKnda wish this happened ngl. A lot of silksong lacks the edge that HK had.

[glossy nebula]

Hornet is just super effective against his kind

[charred tiger]

"i wish fleas were genocided"

[clear fulcrum]

pilgrims are shown in the exact same light. Weak but determined. He’s just a continued version of that theme.

[glossy nebula]

Hornet would have killed him

[clear fulcrum]

Yeah!

[clear fulcrum]

not likely at all lol

[charred tiger]

NO !

[charred tiger]

she would

[glossy nebula]

No she would

Did we play the same hollow knight

[charred tiger]

remember bell eater ?

he slightly scared bell beast

murdered

[clear fulcrum]

bell eater? the thing that openly provokes hornet whilst also taking away her access to fast travel

[glossy nebula]

Remember the ghosts common to hallownes

Just because she deemed them unworthy she murdered them

[charred tiger]

tru

[clear fulcrum]

yeah but that was hundreds of years ago most likely

[glossy nebula]

No

[clear fulcrum]

or at the very least a few decades ago

[glossy nebula]

No

[clear fulcrum]

yes?

[rocky jolt]

https://tenor.com/view/you-found-lost-media-it's-problematic-media-deathgobrr-shan-luigi-gif-16875553969573119300

[glossy nebula]

It is during hollow knight 0 gameplay

[charred tiger]

are there truly days in hk since there is no day/night cycle

[clear fulcrum]

no but time passes

[glossy nebula]

No there is none

[clear fulcrum]

what does this mean

[glossy nebula]

They dont use human time

[glossy nebula]

During hollow knight

And maybe after it

[clear fulcrum]

yeah! which takes place long before silksong

[glossy nebula]

Not maybe but confirmed after ut

[glossy nebula]

It doesnt

[clear fulcrum]

dude 😭 it totally does

[glossy nebula]

If it did then hallow nest would have been stronger

[charred tiger]

it did

[glossy nebula]

Where does it say that

[rocky jolt]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/1122196452182085712/1122650297148395540/caption-1.gif

[charred tiger]

what ?

[glossy nebula]

It is not much after hollow knight

[charred tiger]

hallownest is fucking dead

[glossy nebula]

Proof that it is long after hk

[clear fulcrum]

Hornet literally references hallownests fall multiple times, if it was close after we would have more to do with THK

[rocky jolt]

this is what godhome sounds like to me

[glossy nebula]

And?

[clear fulcrum]

how

[charred tiger]

well it IS long after what are you saying

[glossy nebula]

What does this have to do with the time

[glossy nebula]

When did it say that

[clear fulcrum]

hornet is much older and has changed her ideals dramatically…

[rocky jolt]

GOD home

[glossy nebula]

She didnt

She just stopped using the old crest

[charred tiger]

what are you even saying

[rocky jolt]

she is so much older she looks the exact same

[clear fulcrum]

yeah but outside of that the bosses dont do any of that really

[clear fulcrum]

she’s a demigod..

[glossy nebula]

I am saying when was it mentioned

[glossy nebula]

Man. Tell me a real reason why did it happen ling after hk

[rocky jolt]

demigods are unable to grow apparently

[lost raven]

welp i kinda love Hornet the most TvT

[glossy nebula]

1 reason and I will succumb

[clear fulcrum]

It’s the fact that Hallownest isn’t more important. If her entire kingdom just fell moments before silksong it would be way more important.

[lost raven]

Hornet its too cute for me

[glossy nebula]

Kingdom fell before hollow knight

[charred tiger]

[glossy nebula]

Long beforr

[rocky jolt]

https://tenor.com/view/wah-pleading-emoji-emoji-plush-cry-gif-26365472

[lost raven]

she is so precious

[glossy nebula]

She stayed as the sentinal for so many years