sk-discussion

[versed pollen]

The most significant factor when it comes to clipping software for me is the hardare optimization. And I wouldn't know how resource intensive the Steam overlay is

[old compass]

yeah do that-

[glass raven]

darn struggling to find plinney in act 3

[sly sigil]

Yeah these are what I've been using

[cerulean sable]

the game is just legit brutal, its very knowledged based and the only thing begineer combat and begineer economy does for you is like, 10% more hit chance, slightly easier spawns, or items being 10% cheaper, but it will not pull punches if you dont know how to fight certain enemies

[cerulean sable]

he is currently suppressing funeral for dead butterflies

[odd hull]

Damn

[opaque sigil]

I haven't noticed issues except maybe with some older games (for some reason dark souls 3 was super problematic for my computer, still have no idea if it was really anything to do with the recording but I turned it off as one of my attempted fixes and idk if that did anything or placeboed or it was something else)

[versed pollen]

Games really should just have some manual number scaling GUI and a single hard mode that changes around the entire campaign

[versed pollen]

Well tbf the Dark Souls games have notably horrific PC ports so

[opaque sigil]

yup

but like

my game was freezing for 30 seconds at a time constantly

[fiery burrow]

😕

[sly sigil]

Guys what should I equip from:
Multibinder
Warding bell
Magma bell

For last judge

[versed pollen]

It might be interesting to read about how Valve made their overlay, if they have anything written about it

[sly sigil]

And if yall know any good yellow tools i can use

And what crest ( hunter, reaper and wanderer)

[opaque sigil]

use magma bell

[sly sigil]

And?

[opaque sigil]

that's by far the most consequential tool for that fight

[versed pollen]

I mean I would use magma bell and hunter but that's because I'm a basic chud

[cerulean sable]

like imagine if HK and Silksong's had a difficulty setting for both combat and economy, and all it does is like

1+ extra mask, +3 more damage, 5 more iframes when you get hit
and economy is like, you lose 90% of your geo instead of 100%, stags cost -10 less geo etc

those will help you with a bit of margin of error but if you dont mechnically get good so to say, those bonuses wont do jack shit for you
like those stats wont help you skip out fights by face tanking them

[opaque sigil]

I mean I don't think the comparison works as well since for ss just giving extra health and damage would absolutely let you do that

[cerulean sable]

i was thinking more for Silksong than HK on the health part tbh

1 mask additional is a pretty decent buff for HK

but i guess what im pointing out here is that those hypothetical easy modes doesnt mean you can face tank the fights, you still gotta learn the movement

[acoustic plaza]

do you still get attacked for calling skong bad?

[cerulean sable]

and Battle Brothers is like that, people were quitting even in beginner difficulty because it demands you to learn the fights

[versed pollen]

You get attacked more for calling it good methinks. Always been like that

[odd hull]

Huh, no. A lot of people here have criticisms towards the game

[fiery burrow]

i'm going to jump you

[acoustic plaza]

finally

[opaque sigil]

https://tenor.com/view/mario-super-mario-64-sm64-super-mario-goku-gif-2924386200580697487

[old compass]

hey dude can I crucify you

[acoustic plaza]

last time i was here 6 months ago i got attacked for 4 hrs straight for criticising the game

[crisp raft]

yo

[exotic dome]

i love honeymoon phase 😍

[odd hull]

lol some people are crazy

[acoustic plaza]

it used to be everyone

[versed pollen]

I kind of have no qualms with giving players a free pass to opening their save file from the game and then editing whatever the hell they want there mid playthrough

[acoustic plaza]

the new gen fans ruined server for a few months

[odd hull]

btw did you dislike the entire experience?

[versed pollen]

Include a "reset back to base" button incase it gets really fucked

[opaque sigil]

cheating in single player games is based actually

[acoustic plaza]

yes i forced myself to play 40 hrs of it then quit cus act 2 clean up was way too boring

[fiery burrow]

those newgens and their newfangled silksong 👴

[exotic dome]

same, i tried different fix mods for 2 hours straight

[acoustic plaza]

silksong was way too easy and way too big for me 😭

[odd hull]

clean up? wdym?

[versed pollen]

"newgen fans" who are you bro

[acoustic plaza]

i had like 50 quests to do

[acoustic plaza]

started playing hk 2019

[opaque sigil]

in all my googling I couldn't find anyone having the same problem I thought I was alone 😭

[odd hull]

Ah, for act 3?

[acoustic plaza]

im refering to the ppl that only know abt hk cus silksong release

[acoustic plaza]

yes and i was also at 5 masks after finishing act 2

[odd hull]

Bro...

lmao

[old compass]

💔 💔 💔

[acoustic plaza]

only boss that took me over 5 attempts was the judge

[orchid spruce]

oh dear

these gauntlets are gonna suck

[acoustic plaza]

i liked the lost sinner but he only lasted 2 attempts 😭

[orchid spruce]

[fiery burrow]

lowk you might have just gotten better at video games since your first HK playthrough

[acoustic plaza]

i used to run 112 apb

[odd hull]

She

[versed pollen]

If your complaint is based on Silksong being too easy then yea

[old compass]

sorry for lore reasons I must correct you on first sinner's gender

[crisp raft]

very interesting server tag bruh 💔

[acoustic plaza]

bro shut up let me ise my own tag

i wish first sinner had double hp and third phase

[old compass]

sorry this server consists of 50% underaged

[acoustic plaza]

me included

[icy crow]

I didn't know First Sinner was lost

[acoustic plaza]

bro

[old compass]

wait why do you have that tag then 💔

[acoustic plaza]

sorry i suck at names

[crisp raft]

server tag straight out of Sinner's Road

[icy crow]

Underaged = less than 13 years old by the way

[solid latch]

And I wish Phantom was harder

She’s my favorite boss

[acoustic plaza]

no inder 18

[versed pollen]

If you are under 13 you are not allowed on Discord what are we saying

[icy crow]

Under 18 is called a minor

[acoustic plaza]

well shit im 15

[twilit gale]

Holy shit I beat khann first try???

[solid latch]

And she got the best OST of the game

[acoustic plaza]

@old compass ayo nine sols reference

[solid latch]

He’s really bad

[odd hull]

it's ok dw

[old compass]

[acoustic plaza]

i should go do prong prime

i hate third phase spike

[twilit gale]

Bad as in design wise?

[acoustic plaza]

like oh my god

[twilit gale]

Game design*

[icy crow]

Stuff

[acoustic plaza]

what is your opinion on third phase spike in promised eigong

[solid latch]

I’m minor but not underaged

[acoustic plaza]

cus that shit delayed my cleae BY 10 HOURS

[solid latch]

Too easy

[old compass]

I didn't get there yet I just opened the game for like 20 minutes 💔

[crisp raft]

obviously, he's too easy

[queen acorn]

https://tenor.com/view/click-the-bart-funny-bart-family-guy-gif-16902794461515045373

[acoustic plaza]

right its a modded boss, basically anyrad for the game

[solid latch]

Which game ?

[crisp raft]

what the fuck is anyrad

[acoustic plaza]

how do i unlock image perms

[odd hull]

huh

[icy crow]

Stone Story RPG

[old compass]

300 messages

[queen acorn]

500? messages

[brazen saffron]

khann is easy vro

[twilit gale]

I didn't even need the shortcut😭

[fiery burrow]

??? that's just a total red herring

[icy crow]

?tag permpsa

[white sail]

Why can't I access VC / Post Images?

In order to prevent Scammers and Raiders we have locked Voice Chat usage and Image permissions behind a 150 and 300 messages milestone respectively.

• To check your message count simply go to the server's search bar and type From:@me.

• If you have already reached the requirements and don't have the roles feel free to DM @frosty pelican (NOT TICKETTOOL) or any available Moderator, if ModMail is down; with your total message count, More info in #support-and-faq.

  • NOTE: If you are DMing a mod, please make sure they are accepting DMs, check their server bio.

• Mutes, Kicks and Bans reset your score and you will have have to start again.

⚠️ Artificially increasing message count is considered spam.

[fiery burrow]

slop puzzle design

[queen acorn]

nvm

[twilit gale]

At least there's child labor now so I don't have to do extremely terrible runbacks to the stag

[acoustic plaza]

i wish silksong was like 1/3 of the size

not even counting act 3

[versed pollen]

Every room here probably has like a million different solutions idk

[twilit gale]

I had hoped silksong was 3 times the size it actually is

[acoustic plaza]

i wish act 1 and 2 were 1/3 the size

[main urchin]

How goes the Bile?

[odd hull]

Goddamn lmao

[versed pollen]

I just jump through all the spikes

[solid latch]

I wish it was 2 times bigger

[fiery burrow]

tower XVI was a far superior puzzle map

[acoustic plaza]

too much exploring

[odd hull]

Smaller than half of hollow knight?

[fiery burrow]

and a gift from the stars

[old compass]

I wish silksong stay the size it is

[acoustic plaza]

and all the bosses are basic and boring and have no fun

[solid latch]

Like it’ll be in maybe a few years

[icy crow]

I wish to fight Sharpe already

[onyx python]

"waiter! give me a game with NOTHING!!!"

[heady iron]

Quitting my job right fucking now

[main urchin]

Over the next little while I’m gonna do a series of drawings about if Silksong areas were bigger

[versed pollen]

This is just wishing the game wasn't the game is was supposed to be

[bleak gazelle]

Maybe metroidvanias aren’t for you lol

[solid latch]

Get out

[old compass]

your takes are as crazy as your tag vro 💔

[acoustic plaza]

only good thing about silksong is the hunters crest pogo

[solid latch]

Yeah he’s right

[fiery burrow]

I was onboard with ss hate ngl but this is larp

[main urchin]

Basically a fake “expanded” map that really just extends every area rather than tacking on new ones like most meme maps

[onyx python]

son

[solid latch]

But I think your tag describe you well

[twilit gale]

Pharloom is like at least 4 times bigger than hallownest I think

[acoustic plaza]

bro they are when they arent the size of russia

[queen acorn]

son son sahur

[main urchin]

Not that much

[fiery burrow]

HK had more exploration than SS

[main urchin]

I’d say it’s 1.5 times the size

[versed pollen]

hm maybe true

[acoustic plaza]

if silksong was hk size i wouldve loved it

[main urchin]

Freedom, yes, absolutely

[bleak gazelle]

Honestly I played it as if it was a slow burn game. If you rush into it you’re going to suffer

[queen acorn]

mb mb

[acoustic plaza]

and also silksong ost is so much worse than hk and theres no immersion it just lacks the charm of the original game

[opaque sigil]

I don't think the ost is substantially worse or anything

[solid latch]

If your ass was my wife’s size I would’ve loved it

[old compass]

that's craaaazy has someone ever told you that-

[bleak gazelle]

Immersion never really was the point

[hybrid flare]

Mrbeast treats his employees like shit btw

[acoustic plaza]

i cant recall a single track

[odd hull]

[versed pollen]

Okay I see why people bullied you before

[opaque sigil]

have you listened to hk tracks outside of the context of the game

[twilit gale]

Idk I feel like deep docks + far fields is bigger than deepnest + ancient basin + the abyss

[versed pollen]

You are just saying shit

[odd hull]

that's crazy lol

[solid latch]

Bruh if you want to stay alive GET OUT NOW !

[onyx python]

but it's mrbeast so it's worth it

[main urchin]

The size of your wife’s rear or the size of your wife?

[icy crow]

❓

[fiery burrow]

when the larper starts talking about how silksong is mid because of its atmosphere and difficulty instead of the million slop sidequests and bad map design

[hybrid flare]

Also doesnt pay like anything crazy he gotta stay rich somehow

[acoustic plaza]

nah i didnt even bring up this before

[versed pollen]

https://tenor.com/view/speed-ishowspeed-speed-stream-ishowspeed-stream-speed-nod-gif-1082323842437565509

[hybrid flare]

"bad map design" and it mogs most mvs

[acoustic plaza]

nine sols and hk will always be a million times better than silksong

[twilit gale]

Map design?

[versed pollen]

It's not spiniculous it's not spiniculous to say that

[solid latch]

You don’t wanna know

[fiery burrow]

NINE SOLS?

[onyx python]

his employees are paid with subjective love and care ❤️

[solid latch]

I do not even have a wife but it’s ok

[main urchin]

It’s just that Hollow Knight had more freedom than the vast majority of metroidvanias

[acoustic plaza]

nine sols is better than the original hollow knight

[old compass]

*laughs in nine sols

[twilit gale]

Why did I read this as subjective lore😭

[main urchin]

So Silksong feels very linear in comparison

[fiery burrow]

I thought I found my people 😔

[twilit gale]

What? Silksong has more freedom kinda

[acoustic plaza]

silksong feels like gambling but without the chance to win

[solid latch]

Bruh

[orchid spruce]

holy, nine sols glaze in the chat

[fiery burrow]

metroidvanias are a slop genre like roguelikes yes

[solid latch]

I’ll found your home

[icy crow]

Not exactly, it's just the method of quest progression that ties yourself into a slightly linear playthrough

[opaque sigil]

ok but actually

[solid latch]

I’ll get in

[versed pollen]

Starpengu someone with such nuanced and introspective opinions such as you will forever be doomed to walk this Earth alone

[odd hull]

it's sk-discussion, there's only subjective lore here

[old compass]

I will not allow this

[bleak gazelle]

Nine sols was… one of the more linear metroidvanias I’ve played

[main urchin]

you can kill Herrah before you even get to the city of tears

[rocky jolt]

i stop caring the moment they start glazing nine sols or mio

[bleak gazelle]

There’s literally only one branching path in the entirety of nine sols, and it’s near the endgame

[main urchin]

I’ve done it

[acoustic plaza]

silksong exploration is genuinelly TERRIBLE and the quests are worse and DONT EVEN GET ME STARTED ON THE CURRENCY GRINDING

[opaque sigil]

blue prince tag spotted

[solid latch]

And then I’ll kill you, all your family, and even your pets

[hybrid flare]

this guy is literally the kirb guy with an alt

[twilit gale]

Is needolin unlocked after wall climb or before?

[versed pollen]

Didn't you just say Silksong had too much exploration

[solid latch]

Just after

[main urchin]

After

[versed pollen]

Do you just like it when games are a straight line

[acoustic plaza]

you can beat the game without ever going to city

[fiery burrow]

holy truth nuke hold on

[old compass]

my brother in christ I know you're in your edgy phase but discord has auto moderation-

[leaden delta]

imo i think its the opposite

[orchid spruce]

if you want to see good map design, go play mio and ender lilies to see how silksong map design fails some people's expectations

[twilit gale]

Lurien?

[opaque sigil]

ngl this is kind of a fine thing to like

[acoustic plaza]

opinion rejected

[icy crow]

2D Mario formula type shit

[main urchin]

no, unless you do some major gamebreaking glitches

[bleak gazelle]

Watcher’s Spire, but ok

[fiery burrow]

or the OG hollow knight

[acoustic plaza]

dupe monomon

[solid latch]

Go play Mario and shut up

[main urchin]

you gotta kill Lurien

[fiery burrow]

is ender lilies actually good

[hybrid flare]

SIlksong's linearity is good but its well... linear in act 1 but act 2 mogs hk

[acoustic plaza]

no just dupe a diff dreamer

[icy crow]

Y'all sleeping on Iconoclasts...

[versed pollen]

Why didn't I think of this

[twilit gale]

Act 2 is definitely better than all of hollow knight

[opaque sigil]

I barely started it and uh it seems... like something

[acoustic plaza]

watch the any% mg run

[versed pollen]

I have

[bleak gazelle]

Decent for the combat variety, as a metroidvania also pretty good. Decent amount of branching paths and tells you whether you 100% every specific room

[leaden delta]

i think silksong works real hard to work itself into the game and build the atmosphere. but it tries really hard and thus doesnt have the amount of recognizability that the hk tracks get. one of the people i know comparied to like a movie score

[clear fulcrum]

yeah exploration lwk kinda sucks in silksong but the quests are fine if you do them when you get them

[acoustic plaza]

act 1 was the only decent part of solksong and it's abt 1/2 as good as hk

[twilit gale]

Even I, the ULTIMATE og hk glazer, have to admit that

[cerulean sable]

I thought EL was fine but i wasnt really capitvated by the end of it

[acoustic plaza]

i had ALL saved for after gmz

[main urchin]

and you gotta kill soul master, soul tyrant, soul warrior, watcher knights, and collector if you wanna bypass dreamers by getting godhome endings

[acoustic plaza]

i didnt do a single quest that was required

[clear fulcrum]

act 1 is the worst actual act of silksong. It’s literally the most linear part of the game before act 3

[clear fulcrum]

which is your fault 😭

[acoustic plaza]

i didnt even make it to act 3 cus quests

[main urchin]

(Though I guess technically you could kill the soul warrior in Colosseum)

[twilit gale]

Wtf? It literally gets better as you go to each new area. (Except putrified ducts)

[icy crow]

?

Act three is the most linear one

[acoustic plaza]

my bad for not wasting mats

[versed pollen]

I was so confused what EL was supposed to be for a second

[clear fulcrum]

yeah but it’s not actually an act bro 😭

[hybrid flare]

Yeah the wasting mats quests are lwk ass icl

[twilit gale]

Ehhh idk I'm still playing act 3

[old compass]

act 3 made me crash out trying to find the old hearts 💔

[orchid spruce]

strongest suite is art direction and map design + exploration
weakest suite is enemy design. combat is decent with variety if build. mid bosses.

[solid latch]

Yeah that’s what I thought you’re just bad at the game

[opaque sigil]

act 3's handholding is so funny

[clear fulcrum]

why didn’t you just do all of the other ones

[acoustic plaza]

bro all areas consist of jumping over a few spikes while using hook, going to a boss, beating it in 1 - 5 attempts

[icy crow]

Nyleth's heart is certainly more obscure than most lol

[hybrid flare]

this is literally everything ever?????

[acoustic plaza]

cus i didnt think theyd force you to

[cerulean sable]

Ender Lillies yeah, i didnt think too much of it tbh but thats just me

i thought it was pretty though and the music was nice but i dont remember much about the game

[icy crow]

Act three is an act though?

[acoustic plaza]

no in hk you can get side tracked

[hybrid flare]

so can you in act 1 even

[twilit gale]

You didn't even make it to act 3 you are not beating bosses in 1-5 attempts

[ornate perch]

Guys should I be scared of the beggining of Act 3 on my steel soul

[bleak gazelle]

Act 3 was a cute callback, and that’s really about it? Annoying quests, carmelita, and red memory aside, it’s really not that memorable

[fiery burrow]

Sounds nice

[opaque sigil]

yes

[acoustic plaza]

i beat every boss (besides judge) in 1 - 5 attempts and i have 0 bosses left

[versed pollen]

This might be the funniest critique of a game known to man

[cerulean sable]

you will encounter the 4 mask arena that will end your run

[open flame]

dude i just beat widow

[ornate perch]

Fuck

[fiery burrow]

Idk Silksong is the only game that I thought had decent enemy design lowk

[old compass]

yes
tip: use needle strike on the enemy to the right side of the gauntlet before they spawn in

[open flame]

in silk song

[clear fulcrum]

it’s the most rushed part of the game and it’s just a boss rush… it has nothing in common with any other act in the game and if we were to judge it as one it would be the worst. It’s more like a souped up infected cross roads right before the radiance.

[opaque sigil]

you can just save quit to get to full health

[ornate perch]

That’s what scares me most 😭

[crisp heron]

forgot

[ornate perch]

Thanks

[icy crow]

I mean, of course, but it's still literally an act

[cerulean sable]

y eah if yourE FUCKING COWARD who problably plays OVERWATCH 2 and other inferior games

[clear fulcrum]

best enemy design in any game ever (except for flying enemies)

[cerulean sable]

lock the fuck in

[exotic dome]

silksong has great enemy design but the badly designed ones ARE HORRIBLE

[fiery burrow]

lets not get crazy

[opaque sigil]

I'm sorry if this is your opinion you NEED to play more diverse games

[acoustic plaza]

is there a mod to skip act 3 reqs?

[old compass]

*cries in verdinia

[icy crow]

Y'all sleeping on Iconoclasts

[opaque sigil]

ss has above average enemy design for a metroidvania, a genre that generally has GARBAGE enemy design

[exotic dome]

on god

[acoustic plaza]

act 3 lwk sounds fun but im not bouta rossarie grind

[cerulean sable]

gonna continue sleeping on it

[hybrid flare]

the enemy design is great

[icy crow]

Grand Reeds are your friends

[old compass]

Iconoclasts?

[versed pollen]

Metroidvania devs making every single enemy some variation of goomba for some reason

[hybrid flare]

verdania has ONE bad enemy bro pack it up

[twilit gale]

Is it concerning that my brother has 8 masks and 18 soul vessels in bilewater while I have 7 and 15 in act 3??

[icy crow]

Yes

[versed pollen]

Yes very concerning

[fiery burrow]

oh dropzle puzzles are easy to skip

[exotic dome]

and that is a widely hated historical figure i don't want to mention here

[clear fulcrum]

🫩🫩🫩🫩🫩🫩🫩🫩🫩
even if you want to argue that act 3 is more linear it literally isn’t, as soon as you visit the abyss you have like 10 bosses that you can do in any order. Act 1 is literally just follow the linear path until greymoor and either go to sinners road or go to blasted steps.

[versed pollen]

Yea you can just do pixel lineups

[old compass]

it's 3 actually

[main urchin]

can u go on Reddit if I give the subreddit link

[hybrid flare]

one

[ornate perch]

Guys does save quitting on the Act 3 first gauntlet restore your health or spawns you with 4 masks

[twilit gale]

where did he even get all those from😭

[fiery burrow]

i'm doing it based on vibes

[twilit gale]

Restore

[opaque sigil]

restores your health

[old compass]

pale stag and green prince counts sorta

[crisp heron]

uhh magbs

[orchid spruce]

act 1 is ass because of the deepdock key leading literally nowhere lmao

[icy crow]

...act three literally does not have 10 optional bosses on the spot. Most are tied to quests

[ornate perch]

Ok thanks

[versed pollen]

Sigh this is the best way

[main urchin]

https://www.reddit.com/r/bilewater/

[crisp heron]

it ends your run

[clear fulcrum]

almost every hostile enemy in verdania teleports away and never lets you approach what are you on??

[twilit gale]

Wait I just realised, act 3 starting gauntlet was harder than khann😭

[crisp heron]

yeah it worked

[fiery burrow]

oh nvm gross

[ornate perch]

What 😭

[orchid spruce]

the intended route for act 1 is really fun though, if we conveniently handwave some stuff

[clear fulcrum]

I just said after the abyss 😭
and how does having a quest for activation stop it from being linear?

[exotic dome]

r/bilewater is crazy im sure it's better than r/silksong

[opaque sigil]

moss mother is harder than khann

[orchid spruce]

i died more times at moss mother than khann

[clear fulcrum]

horrible for replayability

[twilit gale]

You died at moss mother???

[clear fulcrum]

holy slander 😭

[orchid spruce]

i died like 5 times at moss mother, sorry i sucked

[exotic dome]

same, 1 vs 0

[fiery burrow]

how it feels to have died to khann twice

[old compass]

khan will not tolorate this

[twilit gale]

That's fine I died like 20 times at widow

[hybrid flare]

???? that's one enemy, the projectile one is ultra manageable and the melee one sucks yeah

[icy crow]

Yeah? Majority of those ""10"" bosses are tied to quests post-Silk Soar. It's just three Old Hearts, one being optional, and then the Great Conchfly refight

[orchid spruce]

i was very bad at games back then

[main urchin]

Plz Make a post asking for the link to be updated

[orchid spruce]

now im mid

[exotic dome]

teleportslop design is also just unfun i think

[fiery burrow]

that one enemy is the only one of note cuz the rest are forgettable

[main urchin]

Saying that you met someone who wants to join

[twilit gale]

Every single flying enemy in both silksong and hollow knight fucking suck ass and should never have been created

[clear fulcrum]

The projectile one will literally hit you if you try to approach with clawline, and at most you get one hit before he tps away.

[hybrid flare]

you need like 2 hits

[fiery burrow]

nkg

[exotic dome]

that's why shakra is a bad boss

[twilit gale]

Abs rad

[versed pollen]

I feel like teleporting enemies are typically more dynamic than teleporting bosses

[old compass]

I hate nkg for lore reasons so he counts too-

[twilit gale]

Shakra is a boss?

[fiery burrow]

absrad is teleportgem

[twilit gale]

Oh fuck me

[versed pollen]

Yea because she barely teleports

[clear fulcrum]

Great conchfly isnt even act 3… And yeah I just said “post abyss” none of what you’re saying is actually contradicting what I’m saying

[fiery burrow]

All of HK lore is an appeal to nature

[old compass]

she's optional even to 100% lol

[main urchin]

Way harder than you’d expect

[exotic dome]

absrad or nkg don't even come close to shakra or verdania enemies in terms of teleport design

[fiery burrow]

Brumm and TK randomly killing a guy cuz he wants to live for as long as possible

or trying to kill him

[clear fulcrum]

???? you can’t gaslight me bro i did verdania yesterday it takes 4 hits

[opaque sigil]

dw there's literally no reward and you might've already missed it

[icy crow]

If you didn't explore Karak in act two, then you'll face it in act three, simple

My point is that act three is more linear in terms of questlines

[fiery burrow]

its also bad

[clear fulcrum]

and the boss sucks 😭

[hybrid flare]

you're underlevelled or smt there's also ranged options in the game

[main urchin]

Verdania’s teleporting enemies are actually really fun

[old compass]

your view on bosses will change if you parry all of their attacks

[hybrid flare]

Brumm literally wants to be free

[main urchin]

I don’t get the hate

[clear fulcrum]

you can say this about any area that isn’t required… Is lugoli act 3?

[icy crow]

Lugoli isn't

[main urchin]

He gets harder in act 3 tho

Ass Jim becomes Abyss Jim

[twilit gale]

Wait what the fuck how do I access this guy?

[exotic dome]

we need more choristorslop enemies

[icy crow]

Which is why most players avoid Lugoli getting voided

[fiery burrow]

nah he wants to mess with the ritual cuz he's a bum

[icy crow]

Grand Gate

[leaden delta]

ass jim uses they/them!!!!!

[clear fulcrum]

i was level 3 with max tool damage. You also just don’t get a bench so if you use all of your tools you’re out.

[hybrid flare]

the ritual is a bum itself

[opaque sigil]

well karak kinda has the extra layer of sucking where you can reach it in act 2 if you're attentive and curious but can't do anything there which is just a huge anticlimax (and then you have to redo some of the platforming later because the shortcuts don't let you bypass all of it)

[exotic dome]

go to grand gate

[hybrid flare]

true the bench part sucks ass

[solid latch]

By Shellwood

[orchid spruce]

another falls victim to the stupid map

[fiery burrow]

appeal to nature

[orchid spruce]

[brazen saffron]

sk-help MIGHT be able to help you

[versed pollen]

That shit is so funny like I go all the way there and get the conchcutter gg

[hybrid flare]

The whole ritual is appeal to nature because "hurr durr cleaning up is good we're vultures"

[clear fulcrum]

if you just go through blasted steps you can silk soar and avoid the only platforming section

[main urchin]

I think if Karak wasn’t accessible with clawline and wings it’d be way cooler for act 3

[fiery burrow]

what?

[clear fulcrum]

HOW???? 😭

[fiery burrow]

the ritual is neutral it doesn't really do anything

[brazen saffron]

you can get the conchcutter

[opaque sigil]

I must've spend like 20 minutes trying to figure out what to do to interact with things, hit every wall, found that stupid ledge that does nothing, it was very lame

[hybrid flare]

crustnut and conchcutter or smt

[icy crow]

Have you ever considered using Faydown Cloak

[clear fulcrum]

nine sols hater btw

[icy crow]

Literally all it takes to access their arena is Faydown Cloak

[hybrid flare]

Doesn't the ritual suck what's left of the kingdom to feed the nightmare heart

[clear fulcrum]

well yeah, but you just said raging conchfly could be considered an act 3 boss??? 😭

[twilit gale]

Is there a pattern as to which enemies get affected by the void and which ones don't?

[old compass]

if you know me I lie about my opinions for shits n giggles

[icy crow]

If you didn't fight it in act two, yes

[clear fulcrum]

all it takes to access raging conchfly is clawline…

[clear fulcrum]

it’s the exact same logic here

[icy crow]

Some players just leave Karak to act three simply because you cannot do jack in Coral Tower until then

[fiery burrow]

what?

[twilit gale]

Fuck raging conchfly

[hybrid flare]

what the fuck are you talking about

[fiery burrow]

dude no one gaf about nightmare essence they can just take it🥀

[barren dew]

Hi

[solid latch]

That what I did

[hybrid flare]

oh its larp

[icy crow]

Except Lugoli is more accessible

[orchid spruce]

[barren dew]

What are we talking about

[clear fulcrum]

to fight lugoli you have to go through an area that’s never required at all while having the last real movement upgrade in the game… ????

[onyx python]

nah he didn't suck the void itself so it's good

[icy crow]

Last real movement upgrade would be Silk Soar, so you're already wrong there

Mount Fay is optional for sure, but mandatory to unlock act three

[main urchin]

Lugoli was almost act 1 accessible

[stoic sigil]

Silkso

[twilit gale]

Mount fay was optional? Why did I suffer then😭

[manic knoll]

hopecore

[main urchin]

I was able lure a flying enemy to pogo and get up the sewer into lugoli’s rokm

[icy crow]

It's optional if you're only going to get the act two endings

[old compass]

me when I ragebait to pogo on an enemy, only to be met by another ability check:

[manic knoll]

optional if you dont touch grass

[worldly umbra]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1073712559359807519/1496637658678431744/goldensigma.gif

[main urchin]

But the steps in the room that lead to the arena require Faydown…

[rocky jolt]

LOL

[timid sky]

i almost thinked

[exotic cedar]

i thought you got hacked 💔

[clear fulcrum]

i said REAL movement upgrade. The silksoar is just a needolin equivalent. You use it when the game tells you to, nothing more.

[stoic sigil]

Mr beet

[worldly umbra]

i did

[icy crow]

Except you need it to access a couple more quests + Mr Mushroom

[clear fulcrum]

and i said sinners road was not mandatory btw didnt say anything about mount fay

[old compass]

walking on thin ice buddy

[timid sky]

golden sigma

[main urchin]

Mr Breasts

[atomic sparrow]

YOOOOOOOOOO THANKS MARIO

[stoic sigil]

Omg Andy!!!!!

[atomic sparrow]

hi

[clear fulcrum]

you need the elegy of the deep too and they do functionally the same thing 😭

[main urchin]

I wonder… could Mr. Beast be the beast spoken of in Revelation???

[timid sky]

Last movement upgrade is swift step

[icy crow]

Sinner's Road is a branch to act two, so it's up to player choice

You need Faydown Cloak to access Lugoli, so that's another whole area required

[main urchin]

And we’re being manipulated with his giveaways while he literally puts “beast” in his name

[icy crow]

You don't need Elegy to trigger Mr. Mushroom. Playing the Needolin is enough

[old compass]

sinners road is technically mandatory because of you needing to save pill there

[clear fulcrum]

yeah, a branch that is the only area in the game that isn’t necessary by some point.
Im confused you’re just proving my point?

[clear fulcrum]

missed the point award…

[rocky jolt]

half life reference

[old compass]

at that point you will know sinners road exist before act 3

[icy crow]

I'm literally trying to point how act three is more linear than act one simply because of quests. Act one leaves two branches for you to access act two, it stops being linear at about Bellhart

[odd hull]

I read "Surface memento". I have no hope

[native cypress]

Hornet imm soo thirsty what should I drink?

Hornet:

[worldly umbra]

the silkrot

[icy crow]

Act three can be finished pretty fast if you just go directly to the hearts then the shamans

[native cypress]

https://tenor.com/view/silksong-hollow-knight-hornet-garama-guarana-gif-11792020015736795535

[main urchin]

Teminite reference

[rocky jolt]

surface can also be a hk reference

[icy crow]

Surface from Hades I

[main urchin]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NGOMFrp1Q2w

God bless teminite music

[worldly umbra]

press start

wait fuck

[stoic sigil]

Silksong is a HL2 reference because Hornet causes a resonance cascade to start Act 3

[main urchin]

Actually maybe if you’re in Reddit you can join

Try joining the discord and then if you succeed please post a link here

[clear fulcrum]

Dude for the past 5 minutes you’ve been doubling down on the fact that you think the raging conchfly is an act 3 boss… how does any of this help the argument you’re trying to make 😭

Having to access something via a quest doesn’t even matter, almost every major story beat in every act is the same.

[stray nova]

Hey babes

[stoic sigil]

EW REDDIT @ MODS

[main urchin]

I’m trying to enter the Bilewater subreddit

[icy crow]

???

I literally said before that Raging Conchfly is only an act three boss if you don't explore Karak and kill it in act two

Act three is definitely more linear because it literally tells you what you have to do. Act one leaves you hanging

[stoic sigil]

You are not exonerated

[twilit gale]

Raging conchfly is not an act 3 boss😭

[exotic cedar]

act 3 linear af

[late current]

who said that conchfly is act 3

[grave anchor]

How to beat the Bell insect in Silksong?

[icy crow]

Can this server even read

[grave anchor]

Its so
Hard pls help

[late current]

just jump over him

[grave anchor]

Do i huy somthn? I just have the

[exotic cedar]

they cant

[grave anchor]

Spear thing pls

[icy crow]

Yeah which is why I say this server sucks ass

[clear fulcrum]

yeah and I said that logic was flawed when you included it as a boss that was a part of act 3…

[grave anchor]

@icy crow @clear fulcrum @exotic cedar hello

How to beat the bell Creture ???

[opaque sigil]

no

[exotic cedar]

hi

[icy crow]

I didn't?? I just said that you could fight it in act three if you didn't kill it in act two

[twilit gale]

Rc is an act 2 boss that you can kill in act 3

[clear fulcrum]

Telling you what to do is not inherently linear 😭
also like 60% of act 3 bosses aren’t even told to you… maybe pinstress?

[icy crow]

Karak exploration is optional in act two therefore it's up to player to go after it or not

[clear fulcrum]

that doesn’t make it an act 3 boss!!

[icy crow]

Pinstress isn't a story-related boss

[clear fulcrum]

its just raging moss charger

[grave anchor]

Huh

[icy crow]

Yeah, but you can still fight it in act three either way

[grave anchor]

It doesnt go back when i hit it tho

[stoic sigil]

Hit it

[twilit gale]

Jump and pogo

[clear fulcrum]

okay so act 2 is inherently the same amount of linearity as act 3 then. Three objectives to do.

[icy crow]

The difference is that act two requires more upgrades before you can get to reach the melodies

[rotund gate]

Sherma sherma sherma sherma sherma sherma sherma sherma sherma sherma sherm ssherma sherma sherma sherm Sherma sherma sherma sherma

[grave anchor]

I cant pogo down tho just side ways

[icy crow]

Act three leaves all the branches open wide post Silk Soar

[clear fulcrum]

it’s only clawline.. and the game leads you to clawline pretty much immediately

[rotund gate]

[queen acorn]

https://gifconvert.vxtwitter.com/convert.avif?url=https://video.twimg.com/tweet_video/HA58T6xbMAAOnMt.mp4

[rotund gate]

Intelligent silksong speeching

[exotic dome]

[sly sigil]

Fuck last judge

[odd hull]

Your pogo is diagonal, you can position yourself to be able to hit

[clear fulcrum]

what are you struggling with thi

[grave anchor]

Oow

[rotund gate]

https://tenor.com/view/esukevi-umamusume-manhattan-cafe-agnes-tachyon-umamusume-pretty-derby-esukevi-gif-14152756986251812271

[queen acorn]

haiaiiaii liilaaacc

[exotic cedar]

it took me a while to find clawline

[queen acorn]

cute...

[rocky jolt]

Ok

[icy crow]

You can avoid Clawline without knowing if you just decide to explore majority of Choral Chambers and other areas first

It doesn't directly take you to it, but it's close by

[real hearth]

i had went through bilewater before getting clawline

[tired depot]

What tools I can make with craftmetal?

[real hearth]

at least i’m pretty sure

[icy crow]

[[Craftmetal]]

[mental swallow]

https://hollowknight.wiki/w/Craftmetal

[real hearth]

or maybe like immediately after i got it

[clear fulcrum]

the only places in act 2 that you can go to without clawline are white ward and the whispering vaults. Choral chambers is just a way to get to the other areas. Both white ward and whispering vaults lead you directly to clawline too.

[silk monolith]

2 from forge daughter 3 from architect 1 silkshot 1 cogfly 1 pimpillo

[bleak gazelle]

Insert silkpost meme

[sly sigil]

HIS 2ND STAGE IS SO STUPID. HIS MOVEMENT IS ASS. WHY DOES HE HAVE FIRE ON HIS HAMMER. WHY IS HE A REAL THING.

[rocky jolt]

block tales is fun

[silk monolith]

dont know if lj is a he

[icy crow]

You can explore Bilewater and Putrified Ducts without Clawline, except it's harder to do so

[clear fulcrum]

dude.. just dodge the fire…

[torpid swift]

I just lost the game

[rocky jolt]

she

[odd hull]

aw

[twilit gale]

Shrine guardian Seth is the most garbage teleport slop boss I've ever seen

[odd hull]

Heloooo

[silk monolith]

seth slander will not be tolerated

[twilit gale]

Fuck seth

[rocky jolt]

that cant be true because first sinner exists

[clear fulcrum]

you can’t actually do anything in bile water without double jump and you can’t even get to putrified ducts without double jump either.. All of which need clawline before the double jump.

[bleak gazelle]

Get the fire resistance tool, also last judge is a she

[silk monolith]

weak

[exotic cedar]

seth is good but not THAT good

[twilit gale]

First sinner is literally top 10 best bosses in fiction

[clear fulcrum]

yeah its the most reactionary boss in the game besides trobbio and lost lace. People only like it because of seths origin.

[icy crow]

You cannot access the upper areas, but you can overall explore the lower half

[clear fulcrum]

the lower half of bile water just leads you to the bel beast so you can leave. or exhaust organ if you missed that.

[clear fulcrum]

first sinner is the only good teleport boss in the game

[odd hull]

Shakra exists

[exotic cedar]

first slopper

[tired depot]

Last Judge is actually a they/them, according to the Hunter's Journal

[old compass]

how does hornet know
she just guessing

[rocky jolt]

holy mother of pharloom glaze

[icy crow]

And yet you have to go through the Mist if you haven't

[bleak gazelle]

O really? Must have misread it

[clear fulcrum]

what are you even talking about atp 😭

[odd hull]

damnit 2 click emoji

[clear fulcrum]

im divulging in this slop

[icy crow]

Trying to access Exhaust Organ from either side will lead you to the Mist. You have to go through it if you want to reach Exhaust Organ

Doable in act one, easier in act two

[clear fulcrum]

sure but that doesn’t disprove anything i said, if anything it just makes my point stronger

[twilit gale]

You can access bilewater in act 1?

[clear fulcrum]

yeah but its pointless

[tired depot]

Yea. "The huge judge likely stood through countless generations, never defeated, never wavering in their charge" is what Hornet says in the journal

[tired depot]

Yes. Through Sinners Road

[icy crow]

Yeah I don't have the time for this anymore lol

This is getting boring

[twilit gale]

You can access sinners road in act 1???

[tired depot]

Yes.

In Greymoor.

[old compass]

yes

[silk monolith]

yeah lmao how else would you get to act 2 without hitting all bells

[clear fulcrum]

because you’re incapable of admitting that you’re wrong 😭

[twilit gale]

Sinners road doesn't have a bell

[icy crow]

I admit that I'm wrong, you just don't have to shove it in my face

[silk monolith]

yeah i know you get to the mist through sinners road to get to act 2 that way

[tired depot]

And you can get to the mist and fight Phantom in act 1 aswell.

[sly sigil]

Wait guys is shakra a male or female

[bleak gazelle]

Organ

[clear fulcrum]

Phantom is also a bad boss fight

[tired depot]

Female

[silk monolith]

female

[clear fulcrum]

its never worth it to take phantom route

[bleak gazelle]

Get needolin, go through organ, kill phantom

[sly sigil]

Thanks!

[bleak gazelle]

Parry is great

[opaque sigil]

she's a fine fight and cross stitch is a strong ability

[tired depot]

Phantom is way easier than Last Judge.

[silk monolith]

yeah thats what i said

[clear fulcrum]

it’s too easy ngl

[uncut elk]

YOU'RE A BAD BOSS FIGHT!!

[clear fulcrum]

which is exactly why it’s boring!!

[exotic cedar]

act 2 exploring is kinda ehh if the player is going for the weaver queen, but its amazing (and the best) if the player goes for the snared silk ending

[tired depot]

IDC I HATE LAST JUDGE PHANTOM BETTER

[clear fulcrum]

Yeah it’s by far the best part of any hollow knight media ever

[silk monolith]

i tried backreading the beef it was too messy i didnt understand a damn thing

[grave anchor]

Agh ig ill use cheats this boss too hard

[bleak gazelle]

I forgot you have to go through sinners road for bilewater, oops

[clear fulcrum]

im sorry 🫩🫩🫩

[icy crow]

The difference between both routes is that while Blasted Steps is easier with a harder boss (and no reward at all), The Mist is harder but has an easier boss and it actually gives a pretty good reward that will be virtually useful in practically the whole game

[clear fulcrum]

LAST JUDGE ISNT THAT GOOD OF A BOSS FIGHT BUT AT LEAST IT’S NOT A SNOOZE FEST

[uncut elk]

its ok carter, you are now a good boss fight 😇

[clear fulcrum]

its less fun tho

[silk monolith]

i usually dont do that cause its way too soon for bilewater and if i do wanna go to bilewater i wanna get the abortion child right away so i js jump from vaults

[clear fulcrum]

you hate art

[clear fulcrum]

im wagging my tail

[grave anchor]

Whats art got to do with anything lol

[icy crow]

Not fun? I think figuring out that the only way forward is by playing the Needolin fun as hell lol

Wraiths aren't hard to fight either in open areas. Closed areas then you're getting beaten to a pulp

[clear fulcrum]

you’re choosing to skip portions of the game by cheating because you’re too lazy to actually put the effort in… you’re ruining the developers vision for no reason other than the fact that it’s too “hard”

[opaque sigil]

who cares

[grave anchor]

I mever said i skip portions of the game

[opaque sigil]

it's a single player game

[grave anchor]

I just wana have fun

[clear fulcrum]

I moreso meant the Phantom fight but the mist is a bottom 5 area in the game and the gimmick would work a lot better if it wasn’t randomly generated

[opaque sigil]

the gimmick wouldn't work

[icy crow]

The rooms are randomly generated, but the Silkflies will always go to the right direction

Phantom is a respite to what others would consider the Last Judge a brutal boss

[clear fulcrum]

that doesn’t change anything 😭
he can do whatever he wants but it won’t change the fact that he’s still not respecting the game

[tired depot]

PHANTOM GIVES YOU SOMETHING USEFUL, LAST JUDGE IS JUST THERE ||jk but I like PHANTOM more||

[main urchin]

Widow is the best boss of act 1, and the narrative climax of the act even though last judge is the hardest thing you’ll face there

[icy crow]

Also because the game barely gives you any mask in act one lol

[opaque sigil]

sure he is idk why you're crashing out about it

[main urchin]

At least he paid for the game, that’s some respect

[clear fulcrum]

I know that, what im saying is that getting jumped by three of the mist enemies isn’t very fun when on other runs ill barely see any.

If you think the last judge is a brutal boss then… what are you going to do in act 2..?

[clear fulcrum]

this might be a texting thing but im not crashing out whatsoever

[icy crow]

I didn't say I think Last Judge is a brutal boss lol, she's just a difficulty spike for players in act one considering she will always deal double mask damage given the player did not get or use Magma Bell

[opaque sigil]

going on a tirade about how somebody hates art because they considered cheating in a single player game is wild

[icy crow]

Last Judge can be hard for new players but she's easily trivialized by about 60% with Magma Bell

[clear fulcrum]

Disagree widow is too slow and the boss ends way too quickly. The final phase is also boring.

[versed pollen]

Video games made in C# do not deserve respect

[toxic vigil]

i love widow

[clear fulcrum]

It took me 5 seconds to type lol

[versed pollen]

How old are you

[opaque sigil]

5

gotta be

[icy crow]

Mist enemies can be quite avoided, honestly. Most are spread evenly

[versed pollen]

5 years 😭

[clear fulcrum]

bla bla blah phantom could give the volt vessel as a reward and i’d choose last judge any day

[old compass]

*laughs in steel soul

[opaque sigil]

wraiths are pretty annoying be fr

[icy crow]

They are, but most can be avoided with a keen eye, despite the background almost working as a disguise for them

[clear fulcrum]

I didn’t mean you in that context

also is last judge really considered that much harder than widow?

[toxic vigil]

i mean she has always double damage

[old compass]

wraiths made me crash out trying to speedrun

[icy crow]

Bigger hitboxes, wider attacks, etc.

[exotic cedar]

wraiths arent bad but boring, literal pogo simulator

[opaque sigil]

mist sounds annoying in general from a speedrun perspective, I guess idk how much room configuration matters but you never really want a ton of rng

[main urchin]

More health

[icy crow]

Widow is more doable because the bell projectiles aren't as enormous as Last Judge suddenly springing her bell chain forward then pulling it back on

[clear fulcrum]

Sure but also more telegraphed and less on the screen. Widow has like 4 bells on the screen at any given time and is much harder to hit if a new player isn’t aggressive.

[icy crow]

The bell chain does damage even when being pulled back

[main urchin]

You do get a needle upgrade after widow but she still has quite a bit more health than the rest of act 1

[clear fulcrum]

yeah it’s just a glorified hornet throw tho

which was the third boss in HK

[ornate perch]

I’m scared of going to the Mist in my steel soul

[icy crow]

Second if you just don't fight Gruz Mother lol

[old compass]

I thought you're in act 3

[clear fulcrum]

yeah there are only like 2 bosses in act 1 that are actually fun 😭

[icy crow]

Just go when you're with a bunch of masks

[toxic vigil]

just
don't

unless 100%

[main urchin]

Widow is the moment when Silksong bosses go from “ok” or “good” to “amazing”

[ornate perch]

I’m at 8 masks rn

[icy crow]

That's solid, but you're missing one more for act two

[old compass]

just go in already

[ornate perch]

Yes, I’m missing the slubberlug one that also scares me

[icy crow]

Rush in and pray

[old compass]

slubber what now

[tired depot]

The mist is acutally kinda ez, just play your Needolin, follow the butterflies, and don't get hit.

[opaque sigil]

just put on fractured mask and run for it

[icy crow]

That one room with Slubberlugs, jumping baby maggots out of the water

[main urchin]

Cheep Cheeps from Hell

[ornate perch]

The problem are the wraiths

Iirc they can go through fractured mask

[icy crow]

Team Cherry made the Cheep Cheep rain from SMB harder lmao

[old compass]

oh that
you honestly just need to be patient with it
stay as high as possible and the slugs won't hit you half the time

[tired depot]

They are ez to dodge. Well for me at least

[old compass]

how to deal with wraiths: throw pins at them

[cobalt summit]

guys

[tired depot]

Or duck under them when they try to rush at you

[icy crow]

I just jump over when they dash at me and strike their backs

[unkempt robin]

just pogo

[main urchin]

The big issue is how inconsistent their target direction will be

[real hearth]

if you take your time and kill them as they appear it’s super chill, if you’re close to dying u can just jump into the fog and go sit at the bench to reset

you got infinite time no need to rush

[cobalt summit]

i took 40 minutes to kill karmelita and hyped her up for my friend thinking hes gonna have the same wonderful experience as me but that guy annhilated her 3rd try with architects crest and i was so pissed i called him maidenless, did i overreact

[old compass]

uh, you did overreact a bit ngl

[tired depot]

I just wait until I hear them yell, which tells me they are about to rush at me

[real hearth]

i only jump when the sound of their scream ends / the beginning of their dash and they always attack under me

[clear fulcrum]

dude architect is such a lame crest

[cobalt summit]

bbut he spammed tacks and cogflies and sawblades

[silk monolith]

no not at all, valid raection

[real hearth]

if u jump early it’s coal sometimes

[old compass]

if that's his way of playing it
let him have it

[unkempt robin]

karmelita with hunters crest is so peak

[short delta]

Should I repay kn or try to steal sole silksong?

[real hearth]

obligatory reaper crest mention

[silk monolith]

i know its cliche to say atp but karmelita fight is a dance

[clear fulcrum]

his way of playing is not interacting with the game whatsoever…

[old compass]

he played with stuff the game gave to him
that's not "not interacting" with the game

[opaque sigil]

silksong fans when people play the game using intended mechanics

[cobalt summit]

i agree why is it so good and horrendous at the same time

[clear fulcrum]

yeah it’s the most dance like fight in HK. Im tired of people saying something like NKG is a dance.

[silk monolith]

nkg is a nightmare

mkg cause mid king grimm fr

[clear fulcrum]

if the game gave you a delete all enemies button would you genuinely try to defend that?
Even the devs thought that red tools were overpowered and that’s why we have the lame shards system.

[real hearth]

i mean it is

[main urchin]

delete enemies button, aka pre-nerf architect drill

[real hearth]

[clear fulcrum]

Not really there is like zero player input whatsoever. Like a genuine snoozefest.

[cobalt summit]

getting brutally touched by cogflies, sawtooth blades and silksong lego bricks and finishing the bossfight with no idea about the boss's moves whatsoever is probably not how its intended

[opaque sigil]

sure it is

[main urchin]

That thing used to do up to 92 damage

[old compass]

that's your opinion though
you can't disregard mine by presenting an impossible censario too

[clear fulcrum]

not impossible if that’s what the architect crest does..

[silk monolith]

calm down twin its ragebait

[main urchin]

And even now it’s one of the better charge attacks cuz of it getting higher base damage than all except Witch and having huge range

[old compass]

no it's multiple buttons

[real hearth]

the point of it feeling like “a dance” is that there is a clear and consistent rhythm throughout the fight which nkg absolutely has

[clear fulcrum]

Sure! but it’s the same idea.

[real hearth]

regardless if you feel like the fight itself lacks quality wise it is dancelike in nature

[unkempt robin]

karmelita, kan, or nyleth

[cobalt summit]

i think hollow knight had their combat system spot on, other than the architect crest i love silksong combat since its fair

[old compass]

simple put
you shouldn't tell others how they should play a game

[silk monolith]

naurrr karmelita is more of a dance than nkg ever was

[real hearth]

i don’t disagree

[clear fulcrum]

actually yeah you’re right. I still think karmelita does it better though.

[opaque sigil]

architect isn't even that broken compared to other crests, any crest but wanderer or shaman can just red tool spam through every fight

[real hearth]

karmelita does the dance-like feel better absolutely

[opaque sigil]

silksong just isn't actually a hard game and isn't really designed with that intent

[silk monolith]

jarvis pull up nyleth fight with architect

[clear fulcrum]

I didnt! I don’t even know the guy, I’m just saying that he didn’t really play the game there.

[opaque sigil]

which uses only two red tools meaning any crest but wanderer or shaman could do it

[old compass]

well that's still your opinion isn't it

[clear fulcrum]

yeah it’s not hard at all but red tools in general are just very poorly designed

[silk monolith]

https://tenor.com/view/ss-silk-song-silksong-skong-gif-9056276688868888316

[real hearth]

i love the combat in both games

[opaque sigil]

hunter, reaper, witch, beast can all do this

[real hearth]

i prefer sk’s combat due to the variety and the fact reaper crest exists but it’s not that far off

[clear fulcrum]

Yes! you’re getting it! If he’s allowed to ignore the design of the game, then I’m allowed to think that’s lame!

[clear fulcrum]

reaper is your favorite?

[opaque sigil]

surely tc designed red tools with the intent people don't use them

[old compass]

and I'm allowed to think you're lame for thinking that

[opaque sigil]

insane cope

[smoky dagger]

i have no idea which ones are good or bad but I only used wanderer because it feels like hk

[clear fulcrum]

I never said you weren’t!

[silk monolith]

i prefer sk's combat due to it being way faster

[smoky dagger]

I never really used the red flying stuff

[old compass]

good

[main urchin]

and I’m not allowed to enter the Bilewater discord server!

[crisp raft]

cogflies or the pollip pouch?

[old compass]

[smoky dagger]

I feel like there's nothing in all of silksong that is as hard or as fast as absrad to fight

[regal dagger]

what's the topic?

[real hearth]

100%, it’s the one that matches my gameplay the most accurately i’d say. i had issues with other crests with me not being able to control my character as well as i would like which reaper really excels at for me

[clear fulcrum]

They quite literally did design red tools around “not using them” They wanted you to use them sparingly, hence the shards, but in reality people just end up spamming them for one hard fight then ignoring them until the next.

[silk monolith]

bilewater has a discord server? what do they talk about over there

[smoky dagger]

The tools that use the beast shards

[silk monolith]

how they hate citadel

[clear fulcrum]

is the control better because of the pogo?

[opaque sigil]

you're just makin shit up, they literally let you buy the stuff from every store

[crisp raft]

usefulness of red tools i think

[unkempt robin]

just wait for dlc

[real hearth]

mostly yea

[smoky dagger]

I'm sure they're useful I just didn't use them

[silk monolith]

the average boss is faster in sk than hk

[smoky dagger]

That's my hope too

[silk monolith]

also the movement is loads better

[leaden delta]

I prefer hk combat because it’s less ass

and actually good

[regal dagger]

they aren't very useful, only useful one is cogfly and i only use red tools when i am desperate

[clear fulcrum]

yeah for a crazy opportunity cost.. you have to spend your hard to get rosaries (without grinding because the game isn’t balanced around that)

[silk monolith]

ragebait

[leaden delta]

and I get to do stuff in that system

[smoky dagger]

I just never had any struggles in silksong compared to hk tbh

[silk monolith]

valid

im js saying skong is more fun

[unkempt robin]

Just using melee silksong is peak

[smoky dagger]

Dlc will probably shit on hk difficulty tho

[clear fulcrum]

are we serious

[silk monolith]

gotta go take a shit brb

[opaque sigil]

Shell shards are cheap there’s like zero opportunity cost lmao

[smoky dagger]

OH MY GOD the overworld fun level cooks hk for me
Especially the flea trials
Easily my favorite thing int he game

[real hearth]

i think part of it also is that the bosses that are closest or surpass sk in terms of speed or pace are all dlc

[clear fulcrum]

yeah it’s way more fluid than HK’s melee

[crisp raft]

i LOVE voltvessels

[unkempt robin]

The tool system is so broken

[regal dagger]

well, yes, i don't even use silk skills that often, i mostly rely on blue tool based builds, only good red tools are cogfly and voltvessels in my experience

[real hearth]

and the final dlc at that

[clear fulcrum]

tbh base thk is more fun than 90% of the bosses here

[silk monolith]

sequel being better than the original should be the norm chat

[opaque sigil]

“Hard” game fandoms suck so much man the devs didn’t add stuff to the game because they didn’t want you to use it

[leaden delta]

and yet the sequel isn’t better. interesting!

[clear fulcrum]

even if you dont like the tools, you have to admit that most of them deal crazy damage at range

[hybrid flare]

But it is!

[silk monolith]

wrong

[torpid swift]

not really. I enjoyed silksong more than hk

[real hearth]

idk if i fully agree in terms of this just off of the gameplay loop/style that sk has

[torpid swift]

tastes are subjective. No one is wrong

[leaden delta]

I’m like overblowing it but I do think hk is better than ss in the majority of ways

[unkempt robin]

Bro First Sinner , Karmelita and Lost Lace match up with hk's dlc bosses

[smoky dagger]

When silkhome and Hall of silk are added silksong will clear hk completely
Especially when Absolute Silkiance is added

[odd hull]

True. People are so insufferable about this

[real hearth]

if you mean specifically the boss thk then i kinda agree

[regal dagger]

They do, that’s true especially with polip pouch

[leaden delta]

but like. lowk on a lot of it

[hybrid flare]

The best sk bosses mog thk but thk is still good

[clear fulcrum]

you have to be coping 😭
you can look at everything related to red tools and you can see that team cherry genuinely struggled with balancing them

[real hearth]

^^

[torpid swift]

People just talkin for the sake of talkin what the hell

[smoky dagger]

Can you do a deku impression since he is your pfp

[unkempt robin]

watch holland hk

[smoky dagger]

I'm imagining all of your messages in the deku voice

[clear fulcrum]

almost every boss in silksong is designed like NKG. Wait for your turn to attack, then wait another 5 seconds.

[clear fulcrum]

my voice is too sugoi for that unfortunately

[opaque sigil]

Red tools being a strong option is literally the point

[silk monolith]

what are you talking about 😭

[smoky dagger]

I can do a baller one

[clear fulcrum]

prove it

[smoky dagger]

By baller I mean like cringe and disgusting

Obv

[leaden delta]

huh. yeah you’re right

[real hearth]

you’ll never guess who my favorite boss in base thk is

[worldly umbra]

who else likes to replay silksong every once in a while and be extremely happy to have the skill lvl where you are now playing thru the game for fun

[leaden delta]

I’ve been trying to concisely state why I like hk bosses more generally and like

yeah that’s kinda it on a lot of guys I feel

[opaque sigil]

Haven’t opened it since October lol

[clear fulcrum]

a strong option that doesn’t require you to interact with the challenges the game presents is always gonna be seen as a lame option.. It’s not elitist for someone who enjoys a boss’s design to not like when people cheese them. Notice how no one complains about needle upgrades?

[torpid swift]

lmaoo same

I only played it one time for the ending and never opened it again

[opaque sigil]

Self reporting on caring about how other people play the single player game

[real hearth]

i wouldn’t consider readily available gameplay tools cheese

[clear fulcrum]

Yeah!! it’s a big shame unfortunately, especially because lost lace is designed that way too.

[fiery burrow]

I complain about needle upgrades

[opaque sigil]

Also that literally is elitist

[smoky dagger]

Starpengu more like starstupid

Hahahahaha

[leaden delta]

mhm it suckssss. this is a big reason I prefer hk combat, though I do jsut prefer it at its core anyways

[torpid swift]

You are getting boiled in a cauldron

[smoky dagger]

D:

[fiery burrow]

anyway lowk who cares how people enjoy games

[clear fulcrum]

Yes i do!!! that’s the beauty of enjoying something, you want others to see it in the way YOU see it. If someone skips the design of the game, obviously you’re gonna feel bummed. I don’t hate anyone who plays with the architect crest, but it still bums me out!

[leaden delta]

Hold on wanna see what I think of the bosses. cuz I have a boss list with both games

[opaque sigil]

Spells mog skills so hard

[cunning geode]

your way or the highway?

[clear fulcrum]

bro why 😭

[opaque sigil]

They literally started by saying somebody who was considering cheating just hated art it’s genuinely hilarious

People are crazy

[clear fulcrum]

No! I’m open to other opinions but no one has been able to convince me that red tools are a good way for interacting with bosses.

[leaden delta]

yeah. I think silkspear is on the same lvl honestly but the rest of the skills fall flat to me

[hybrid flare]

I love using 2 of them and leaving the other one unused for 90% of cases

[icy crow]

@exotic cedar I'm gonna wipe off more of the Hallow in my desert

[opaque sigil]

I mean yeah it’s basically just vs

[fiery burrow]

good thing video games aren't art

[hybrid flare]

cross stitch mogs hk combat

[clear fulcrum]

If you’re cheating in a video game, it’s literally only because you see it as entertainment. That is by definition hating the art of the game.

[torpid swift]

TRUE THATS THE POINT OF EVERYTHING the reason people kept on bitching around with some "games sucks nowadays" and couldn't enjoy new games is because they kept on comparing new games with the holy grail of the same genre. If they keep doing that, then they won't be able to enjoy what the game wants you to feel..

[opaque sigil]

Cross stitch is so lame

[leaden delta]

yessssss but I think there’s meaningful distinction there

[fiery burrow]

all art is entertainment bro

[opaque sigil]

Simply not true lol

[smoky dagger]

No that's so odd and narrow minded fr

If you pause a movie to use the bathroom you're disrespecting the original intended experience
Is how that reads to me

[fiery burrow]

jus say you found a certain way to play the game funner

its not a big deal

[old compass]

art is made for entertainment dude 💔

[cunning geode]

go play some classic doom maps and tell me anybody who ever uses cheats doesnt appreciate the art of it

[real hearth]

i like the pacing, the actual types of attacks are unique & engaging with every part of the moveset is fun. Honestly that’s about it, some people think it’s a bit boring which i understand, but i’d rather have a consistent pace where im always having fun than overstim hell

[clear fulcrum]

needing to pee =‘s modding the game so that you can skip a required boss?

[leaden delta]

to where I can see both of them coexisting if you change them a lil

[smoky dagger]

I've fr never used god mode in doom

[cunning geode]

thats not the only cheat

but good for you

[fiery burrow]

if you need to mod to enjoy the game you need to mod to enjoy the game, gaming is for leisure at the end of the day

same with all art

[leaden delta]

like I think silkspear is the only good skill tbh. I dislike the rest of them

[opaque sigil]

Forget need if it makes you enjoy it more you should just do it

[smoky dagger]

Omg yay thank you now I feel so cool because I beat doom on a totally normal difficulty and not ultra nightmare
I am epic

[cunning geode]

oh youre talking about modern doom

[clear fulcrum]

well sure! but why would you hack off pieces of the game if you saw it as anything MORE than entertainment? I wouldn’t delete 30 minutes from interstellar.

[hybrid flare]

saying wtv just to hate

[cunning geode]

dismissed

[smoky dagger]

??????? No

[real hearth]

like absrad who i love is admittedly a bit much stimulation and leads to me being frustrated while fighting more than anything

[smoky dagger]

I only play 1992

[cunning geode]

try again

[smoky dagger]

1982

[cunning geode]

there you go

[clear fulcrum]

What is overstim hell

[smoky dagger]

Ik it's a 2

[opaque sigil]

“Why would you make changes to game mechanics if you value atmosphere narrative artstyle etc”

Crazy

[smoky dagger]

yaay now I am double cool I can remember the game I've played

[cunning geode]

its from 1993

[clear fulcrum]

Just say that you dont value the art of game design bro 😭

[opaque sigil]

There’s nothing to do atp but point and laugh

[fiery burrow]

i'm elitist to people who use excerpts for bull of heaven songs

[cunning geode]

if you dont enjoy using red tools just fucking dont use them PROBLEM SOLVED ok byebye

[fiery burrow]

listen to the whole thing

[real hearth]

basically just absrad who i would see as one of two bosses comparable to nkg

[smoky dagger]

Are red tools that op fr

[opaque sigil]

Sort of

[smoky dagger]

they seemed so mid

[icy crow]

Mega Man Zero better than Silksong btw

[opaque sigil]

They’re stronger than they seem

[odd hull]

They are strong, yes

[exotic cedar]

gl

[cunning geode]

they can be very strong if you know how best to synergize them

[real hearth]

that one friend who hates everything btw

[opaque sigil]

Which is also skill expression

[smoky dagger]

are good builds cheating ong

[clear fulcrum]

true, but I mean radiance is a unique type of boss that only like 2 others really follow the design of.

[icy crow]

I did like, wipe off more than half of it yesterday

[clear fulcrum]

the original?? helllll no

[icy crow]

I've only 100%'d the first so far but the boss fights are fun

[real hearth]

i agree, i mean it’s either #2 or #3 for me easily i love it

[opaque sigil]

No! But every ‘hard’ game fandom injects so much ego into playing the ‘right’ way that they get defensive if they see anyone actually playing the game like a normal person

[icy crow]

https://tenor.com/view/mega-man-zero-combo-mad-mega-man-zero-gba-gif-23068029

[smoky dagger]

I feel like since I thought they were mid (and I'm like the smartest player ever) people who learn how to use them must be even smarter and super skilled at silksong fr

[old compass]

I hack a game because this particular game kinda sucks not because I don't appreciate something as a whole 💔

[clear fulcrum]

yeah but it’s not really on par with silksong right?

[opaque sigil]

Or just looked up damage numbers

[smoky dagger]

I remember feeling that way about the super laser cannon in elden ring

[icy crow]

It's close. It's Silksong if it had weapon combos

[exotic cedar]

nice

[smoky dagger]

I was like man you didn't do the same boss I did

[clear fulcrum]

so you’d hack silksong cuz you think it sucks?

[opaque sigil]

Magic in from games is another big example of this

[smoky dagger]

But I don't think it could ever be deep

[icy crow]

State of the world currently

[old compass]

I didn't say silksong

[smoky dagger]

I've also ran one shot builds for fun in fromsoft games cuz it's like a huge fun aspect of the game

[exotic cedar]

damn

[smoky dagger]

Which aint different

[opaque sigil]

But setting up those laser builds requires gameplay too, you have to actually assemble the build it’s just putting the effort into a different part of the gameplay

[icy crow]

I didn't even defeat Twins or Skeleton Prime yet and yet I'm more invested in that

I gotta make the Onyx Blaster to deal with the Twins

[opaque sigil]

Also obliterating bosses with a giant laser is cool

[clear fulcrum]

Bosses like Karmelita aren’t even hard! There are ways to make the boss easier for yourself without ruining the design completely.

[odd hull]

Or summons. Or ashes of war. or strong weapons. or dex weapons. or status effects. or buff sorceries. or talismans.
People just wanna complain

[smoky dagger]

Yeah it's def absurdly hard to make one shot builds in those games

[noble tendon]

This ant is beating my ass

[smoky dagger]

That's like for me the boss who killed me second most is she supposed to be easy

[real hearth]

honestly this is the most important factor of any of these arguments for me

[smoky dagger]

Only lost lace got more kills on me

[clear fulcrum]

well sure but the other guy would? Are you saying he’s doing it because he thinks silksong is bad?

[icy crow]

Karmelita is 90% pogo 10% actually dodging

[real hearth]

it’s the same thing as summons in souls games, like they can be “cheap” but they are fun and they can add to your experience depending on how you like to play

[opaque sigil]

Yeah which is why it’s lame to see people get so elitist about the ‘right’ way to play

[regal dagger]

Me too

[smoky dagger]

Omg does it like cheese her

[fiery burrow]

how are you ruining the design by engaging with the mechanics of the game

[old compass]

sure he's entitled to his opinion

[opaque sigil]

You’re not you’re just engaging with it differently

[clear fulcrum]

Not sure. I struggled way more on Lost lace. I think people consider her to be in the upper echelon generally

[smoky dagger]

Star this is unrelated but do you recall the nintendo fan from yesterday

[fiery burrow]

yes