sk-discussion

[quartz cave]

Tyacco i know you were cool but i didnt know this mucj

[odd hull]

That's not so fair

[coarse berry]

people that do this on their first playthroughs annoy me

[oblique quarry]

i save scummed two times, BOTH IN MOUNT FAY BTW

[quartz cave]

The difference is you have way more binds to use

[quartz cave]

Why

[sharp knot]

Guys
If you dont let Sherma through the gate at the start of the game
Does he just
Disappear for the rest of the game

[oblique quarry]

turns out falling into the water is just not recoverable from

[cold trellis]

Quitting in HK is treated the same as using summons in Elden ring I see

[oblique quarry]

so i banned using reserve bind AND voltvessels

[cold trellis]

Nah, he eventually gets pass the gate so uh

[quartz cave]

He becomes a leader of a criminal mastermind and spends his time terrorizing bone bottom

[coarse berry]

the difference is that summons are a game feature

[oblique quarry]

other than mount fay though the rest of the game was easy sailing

[keen gorge]

Preguntita hay algun canal para españoles

[coarse berry]

haven't played elden ring past margott btw

im a larper

[quartz cave]

I dont really think anyone cares
And those that do are lame cause what does it affect you for

[cold trellis]

The first or the second fight?

[narrow shore]

he wants to know where a spanish channel is

[coarse berry]

it's me im the one who cares

[quartz cave]

No, the whole server is english only. But theres a spanish server

?tag servers

[white sail]

Hollow Knight Community Discords

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[coarse berry]

the fact i didnt know there was a second probably speaks for itself

[cold trellis]

I’m currently playing Elden ring lmao. I’m on a steak, went from DS1 to Elden ring, I am starting to miss 2D games tho after that, I will start playing Ori after ER

[coarse berry]

steak

[oblique quarry]

tbh just play how you want to ;-; (except for using debug mod, dont do that)

[cold trellis]

Ah, I see, sorry to spoil you man

[ancient mortar]

https://tenor.com/view/invincible-steak-mark-omni-man-gif-13811417561747005942

[keen gorge]

Thanks chao

[cold trellis]

I’m not fixing that

[coarse berry]

doing it on a second run and further is fine with me, im just a stickler for playing the games the "correct way"

[atomic sparrow]

we don't know and yeah if there was an update it'd be in #hk-announcements

[coarse berry]

that's my toxic gamer thing

[cerulean sable]

feels weird

[oblique quarry]

that's... stupid

[cerulean sable]

i dunno, and i play a lot of FPS games

[quartz cave]

Hell if you really wanna play with debug mod then do so
(Though if using mods then yeah you cannot claim to have done any achievement or difficult challenge, not that they havent its just invavalidated imo)

[coarse berry]

you're entitled to your opinion

[oblique quarry]

what even is the "correct way" to you

is it playing hunter's crest without cogflies or anything

[quartz cave]

Im really curious
I understand where youre coming from and what youre talking about. What i dont understand is why would this matter at all when youre not the one playing the game

[oblique quarry]

or just not quitting at all until making it to a bench

[coarse berry]

nah that's fine, i just mean reading dialogue and not save scumming and stuff

but that's just me

if you want to play differently it's not a huge deal

[oblique quarry]

because realistically speaking, quitting out in the marrow on full health to get back to bellhart isnt a huge deal

[coarse berry]

to you at least

i just like to play a bit differently

[cold trellis]

On an unrelated note, I wished tools system In SS were similar to Prosthetic tools in Sekiro (If anyone have played Sekiro before)

[oblique quarry]

alright well

[coarse berry]

sorry if im sounding annoying lmao

[oblique quarry]

that just approaches the point of snobbish almost for me xd

oh well

i mean play how you want as they say

[coarse berry]

im not saying you can't do it lol i was just trying to say that's how i prefered to play

[cold trellis]

One of the few reasons why I love ER, you can just teleport to any checkpoint you want to

[old compass]

steel soul all memento's update: beat the summoned savior

[oblique quarry]

if you want to waste your own time go ahead

[oblique quarry]

hated that experience

[atomic sparrow]

why didn't the summoned saviour save shit
is sula dumb?

[oblique quarry]

no silk, movement more unpredictable than markoth, and small room

[coarse berry]

im a larper that hasn't played in a while which boss was that

[old compass]

does he know?
HE DOESN'T KNOW-

[oblique quarry]

steel soul specific

[coarse berry]

oh yeah

[old compass]

steel soul exclusive boss

[atomic sparrow]

something something only a fool could make the void do their bidding

[ornate perch]

We need steel memento frfr

[sharp knot]

Ohh okok

[coarse berry]

it doesn't feel like wasting time to me but i can understand how other people dont want to trek back to benches

[sharp knot]

Thats the plot of hollowknight 3: shermworm

[odd hull]

I have played it. Similar in what way?

[coral iron]

chat for my steel soul run i just got drifters cloak should i be normal and go to greymoor now or take wormways like a cool guy

[coarse berry]

guys why didnt hollow knight use his crystal dash upwards to fly to the sun and immediately fight the radiance is she stupid

[coral iron]

wrong chat

[coarse berry]

do i win the larp award

[oblique quarry]

not much stuff in wormways for you anyways tbf just go to greymoor and get everything there

btw i would HIGHLY recommend doing mount fay before mist

[coarse berry]

sowwy

🥹

[old compass]

you should go get fractured mask

[odd hull]

It was night time, duh

[coarse berry]

ohhhh ok ty

[oblique quarry]

hes gonna have to trek around the marrow for that, just get greymoor left done while ur at it

[cold trellis]

Well for one, I love how prosthetic tools in Sekiro are all situational. Some bosses/enemies are weak to certain tools or have special interaction with them (Like how guardian ape in second phase is weak to spear). Second of all, most tools in Sekiro used up like 1-2 sprit emblem while you can stored up to HUNDRED of spirit emblem by just proceeding through the game. So personally, I never ran out up SE too fast (Unlike that of shell shards).

[old compass]

but shakra won't help you-

[oblique quarry]

its fiiiine

[coral iron]

i never did that in my speedrun i should be fineeeee. i need to get more masks tho since im good but dont trust myself enough to fight phantom or last judge. actually last judge the first time took like 6 hours and i skipped it in my speedrun and cursed run lol

[coarse berry]

i didn't even know fractured mask existed until post || lost lace ||

[oblique quarry]

yea but it gives u SO much more qol

[coarse berry]

oops i did the spoiler thing wrong mb

[old compass]

good thing I got fractured mask early

[oblique quarry]

like having double jump in the mist is ungodly amounts of quality of life

[oblique quarry]

also shakra in that room is just sensory overload

[coral iron]

yeah but dont i need hookline for mount fay? doesnt that require act 2? unless ur saying to fight last judge then get faydown then do mist?

[oblique quarry]

like theres so much stuff on the screen its crazy

[coarse berry]

i also didnt know shakra could help you in that one gauntlet

[oblique quarry]

yea fight last judge first, shes actaully prety easy and chill

[old compass]

well I just so happen to know a few things about sensory overload

[coral iron]

tell that to my 6 hours on the fight. 3 hours on runback but same same.

[oblique quarry]

basically, you stay at the optimal distance and spam curveclaw

[cold trellis]

Love Shakra but can she just stop teleporting around 😭

[oblique quarry]

thats on first playthrough though innit?

its a hell of a lot easier on subsequent playthroughs, trust me on that

karmelita took me 5 hours to beat first playthrough

[chrome crane]

You speak the truth, ive spent so long fighting her first time around

[oblique quarry]

and i first tried her, seth, nyleth, and clover dancers

[coral iron]

im speedrunning practically with the steel soul so im skipping a lot of things. i dont doubt i could beat her easily and i also have save scumming but its just such a task

[coral iron]

seth is harder than nyleth lmao

[oblique quarry]

i forgot my volt filament

[cold trellis]

[chrome crane]

Then on the speedrun I just yoloed her first try lol (tho with the magma tool thing because im not about to take double damage lol)

[oblique quarry]

ascendants grip, and cogflies

[oblique quarry]

what are you skipping?

[coral iron]

oh i never actually beat karmelita. I took 2 hours just spamming architect like a loser. and ill claim that title gladly. im likely going to skip her for 100%

[odd hull]

I see, and agreed with the sentiment. Tools should be more specialized in a way, I think they're weak in uniqueness & interactions — also yeah, spirit emblems numbers are 100% better than shards, even if I'm not the biggest fan of them. I have some other opinions on the matter tho

[oblique quarry]

oh dude karmelitas a lot better than ckk

I FORGOT ITS CRUST NOT KRUST RAHH

[odd hull]

bro..

[quartz cave]

[oblique quarry]

ITS AN INSTINCT

[coral iron]

Im skipping a lot of upgrades and ignoring collectibles till late on. Im also planning to skip most areas besides required ones. i want to get the first achievement for steel soul completion then ill work on 100%

[quartz cave]

they drove themselves up a wall making the name and instead of changing it they just replaced a K with a C

[oblique quarry]

oh alr

[quartz cave]

first nazis now racists whar

[oblique quarry]

well i mean i did it completely differently

i just did EVERYTHING in every act

that i possibly could before moving on

[coral iron]

my route for speedrun was only necessary items and taking the mist and ignoring abilities. i had to reset like 3 times just because of the high halls gauntlet since i skipped so many upgrades lmao.

[chrome crane]

For my 100% speedrun I did this too

[oblique quarry]

like by the end of act 2, i had 9 masks, 18 memory lockets ( i think), all silk spools, all tools except pin badge, needle 3, and every possible silk skill except for nails

[chrome crane]

I noted some special stuff and made a lil route for me to follow

[oblique quarry]

every conceivable upgrade that there was in act 2 to get, i got it

[coral iron]

im doing my 5 hour speedrun and 30 hour completion in the same run, so i just beat the game in 5 hours and now im going back for collectibles

[chrome crane]

Tho for act 3, the deadline for the achievement was getting tight so I followed someone elses route for the remaining stuff lol

[oblique quarry]

i beat steel soul in 23 hours total (100%)

[coral iron]

i never got all collectibles legit. i just used map genie for the remaining 20% of items.

[oblique quarry]

wasnt even close and i was doing voice lines and goofing off while doing it too

[kind tide]

[cold trellis]

Forgot to mention this but I also love the storytelling of these tools. Some of them have really cool lore and unique interaction with other characters. Like how if you use a prosthetic tools while fighting Owl, he’ll comment on it.

[chrome crane]

Ooohh impressiveee!!

[kind tide]

SHAW

[oblique quarry]

btw voicing mooshka is kinda fun xd

i wonder when theyre making a pharloom voiced mod

[old compass]

steel soul all mementos update: defeated crawfather

yay infinite money glitch

[oblique quarry]

gg (competitor for easiest boss of act 3 otehr than gurr and lost lace btw)

[cold trellis]

The crawfodder

[coral iron]

i think im just gonna take wormways

[oblique quarry]

how many steel soul saves have you lsot so far

[coral iron]

just 1 while messing around on bell beast

I think wormways is more fun and i get to grab my favorite wall jump on the way

to greymoor

[oblique quarry]

fair

[odd hull]

I also like that a lot. The note telling where to find the Sabimaru was also really cool and got me excited to find & test as quick as I could. Wish silksong did stuff like that too

[cold trellis]

Good god, I also forgot to mention that there is a special item in Sekiro that also allows you to refill spirit emblem at the cost of your health. For godsake, I need to mention everything in one reply

[fathom pendant]

Is pale Stag suppose to be easy

[cold trellis]

It is a terrible boss

[odd hull]

He's annoying

[cold trellis]

That all I can say

[fathom pendant]

well I did it first try I thought I was in for a ride

[odd hull]

And boring

[fathom pendant]

not trying to flex or brag tho

[cold trellis]

But tbh, I do know some people who unironically have pale stag as their favorite boss

[oblique quarry]

i didnt do it myself cause i lost volt vessel privelages on my steel soul run, but use the bolas every time he jumps to the lilypads

[fathom pendant]

meh I thought it was going to be worse, but luckily it wasn't

[oblique quarry]

voltvessel balls deal a sizeable amount of damage there

[fathom pendant]

I killed him luckily, clover dancers is what got me

[odd hull]

That's unfathomable

[cold trellis]

It Cogwork dancer revamped, shouldn’t give you too much of a trouble

[fathom pendant]

dude I literally told myself its probably a upgrade to the cogwork dancers

and I was right

[oblique quarry]

for the spinning vortex that they do in the middle, make sure to use clawline

[urban robin]

Palestag is no eyes if it was more annoying somehow

[oblique quarry]

i see WAY too many ppl not using clawline in their playthroughs tbh

like it annoys me to no end, CLAWLINE IS LITERALLY ONE OF THE BEST COMBAT UTILITIES IN THE GAME

[fathom pendant]

that's what killed me actually

I didn't know what was going on

and then he did like 10 string move things

[oblique quarry]

flying enemies that float back like little p***ies? CLAWLINE THEIR ASS
gms too far away? CLAWLINE INTO SOME MORE HITS
need to get out of a tight spot in a gauntlet? CLAWLINE OUT

[fathom schooner]

See i dont use clawline because i forget to and i keep sharp dart on my skill button ever since it got buffed

[fathom pendant]

yeah I use it a lot

[oblique quarry]

its one of the most versatile abilities and i will die on this hill if you dont abuse it

like yea have fun dealing with the 1500th flying enemy with primal aspid ai

[fathom pendant]

dude the conch shell shooters

they predict you man

they see the future

[oblique quarry]

clawline their ass

[fathom schooner]

Also turns out, the game isnt that hard, everyone just butted their heads against high halls gauntlet instead of GETTING THE STUPID PALE OILS

Im replaying through and ive got 1 part of the melody and everything is just stupidly easy because i actually went and got the needle upgrades that are available

[cold trellis]

Clawline is literally what separate HK combat and SS combat, it alleviates the whole thing

[oblique quarry]

and chain into a thread storm

[fathom pendant]

well their attack in general

they aren't hard to kill just their attack is pretty silly

[oblique quarry]

it tests if you passed middle school

[fathom pendant]

😭

[fathom schooner]

Honestly it mostly tests your ability to not panic

[fathom pendant]

I've got like 86% guys how close am I

[oblique quarry]

what act, and what tools

[fathom schooner]

If you panic and run away ITS GONNA SNIPE YOU

Sidestep the shell and smack the floating bug and wow the shell ISNT pulling a 180 to get you

[oblique quarry]

you need all tools, masks, spools, abilities, and quests (most of them at least) done

[oblique quarry]

or just, yk, watch where its gonna land and stand a bit back

and OH WOW LOOK IT SAILED RIGHT OVER YOU

now where's that juicy conchfly

[fathom schooner]

I just step back, it bounces in front of me and then over my head, now i jump at it with sawtooth circlet

[oblique quarry]

clawline into a pogo and maybe a thread storm if i feel like it

then dash and clawline them again

[fathom schooner]

I dont use thread storm honestly

[chrome crane]

It was a bit rough for me on the speedrun tho lol

Had to get the ol reliable buzzsaws to help

[oblique quarry]

i can understand that tbh, its actually SOMEWHAT annoying to use and place correctly

[fathom schooner]

I prefer sharpdart, after its buff its easily the strongest skill in terms of the speed of the damage going out

[oblique quarry]

oh sharpdart got buffed?

[coral iron]

alr i just made it to shellwood and since ive made some decent progress ima log off

[fathom schooner]

Thread storm CAN outdamage it (but it requires max needle and volt filament)

[fathom pendant]

Im at act 3, im 51/57 it said In items like tools etc, 8 masks 0 mask shard

[oblique quarry]

i was under the impression that its ass since from my experience on release it was ass

[fathom schooner]

Sharpdart is now 1 massive hit and 3 small hits

[coral iron]

oh man i spammed it during that one fight with the guy in white ward. mr stringy guy

[oblique quarry]

alr so ur missing 4 act 3 masks which 2 of them you get from the bellhart quests, one you get from brightvein, and one you get i dont remember

and then ur missing 4 non-act 3 ones

[fathom schooner]

The dash itself does 2.75x needle damage, and the 3 small slashes after do .25x needle damage for a total of 3.5x needle damage (the small slashes do not get volt filament or shamam buffs)

[oblique quarry]

for tools and such only one thats act 3 specific is pin badge so you should backtrack and see what you missed

what about silk skills

[coral iron]

there are prob some they missed like at the edge of blasted steps

[fathom schooner]

It was however, completely garbage on launch, and it was buffed when thread storm was nerfed to 4x0.75x hits and the extension hits became 6x needle level

[oblique quarry]

and do you have all the crests and memory lockets

[fathom pendant]

yeah, i need to flea games and also the last.race

[fathom pendant]

I have all crests not memory lockets

[fathom schooner]

Which means early/mid game sharp dart does more than thread storm

[oblique quarry]

do yo uhave ||sylphsong||

[coral iron]

oh yeah that one requires the upwards ability, man i cant remember its name. silk soar right. theres one at the edge of blasted steps i believe that needs a little parkour

[fathom pendant]

um what

[oblique quarry]

they should have kept thread storm in its original state honestly

its a giant trade off, massive damage but you gotta stay in place

[fathom pendant]

1 missing prob pale nails

[oblique quarry]

oh yea its pale nails

[cold trellis]

One of my SS confession is that I still haven’t got the guardian mementos. Like screw that bruh

[fathom schooner]

Honestly NO it did over 200 damage with shaman and volt filament and the next closest was at like 120

[fathom pendant]

probably not then

also missing one silk heart

[coral iron]

white ward

[oblique quarry]

if youve gotten a lot of memory lockets then you can bind eva

and that gives you passive regen of silk when on a bench

basically salubras blessing

[fathom schooner]

Now its still the highest damaging but requires max needle and volt filament

[fathom pendant]

I think I need like 3 more to get all of the crests

[coral iron]

i just use whatevers fun. like parry

[cold trellis]

Highest Silk Output

[fathom schooner]

Parry has always been good because it just lets you press a free damage button instead of dodging

[fathom pendant]

maybe, ive been there so I might've gotten that one and js missed the other

[oblique quarry]

oh just get one more and then you can get the ability from eva

[fathom schooner]

Oh no, i suck at dodging free damage button

[cold trellis]

https://tenor.com/view/jjk-memes-jjk-ryu-jjk-larp-larping-gif-9136261405032725470

[oblique quarry]

ok and? it required you to remain a sitting duck

[coral iron]

theres 3 hearts, one at the start with bell beast, then one at the 2nd lace fight, and one in white ward when you beat the boss there

[oblique quarry]

you need to place your extensions well or else ur basically a sitting duck for any moderately difficult boss

[fathom schooner]

Most things would be DEAD or youd have removed like a 3rd of a bosses HP with it

[fathom pendant]

oh

then awesome great

[fathom schooner]

Nyleth for example was ridiculously easy with OG thread storm

[coral iron]

the boss is a pain in the ass, at least it was for me

[fathom pendant]

What's the boss?😨

[fathom pendant]

uh oh😭

[fathom schooner]

And honestly i did nyleth with shaman crest so i had no reason to do anything BUT silk skill

[coral iron]

hes a giant pile of silk thats fat and shoots out enemies

[fathom pendant]

bruh

I decided to get on for the first time in like a week, I killed like 4 bosses and there's moreee

[fathom schooner]

Lotta bosses

[fathom pendant]

never ending

[prisma marsh]

🇦 🇼 🇴

[coral iron]

og thread storm mostly prevented all damage anyways right? didnt it do like knockback and interrupted attacks?

[fathom pendant]

flea reference

[oblique quarry]

its basically a short gauntlet followed by a massive moss charger in a tight room that does double damage and oh yea theres also ads and spears

[fathom schooner]

It destroys some projectiles (still does)

[prisma marsh]

awooooo

[coral iron]

i havent played in a couple months but i cam back recently to finish my last 3 achievements with steel soul and 100% speedrun

[cold trellis]

The spear attack was the only cool thing that boss had to offer

[oblique quarry]

it has way too much hp

[oblique quarry]

btw i HIGHLY recommend using architects crest for that fight

with tacks, buzzsaws, and cogflies

trust me on this one, it will be a boon since this boss sits in place a lot

[coral iron]

it feels like punching a brick wall until its broken

[fathom pendant]

dude I'm broke on shards

wdym😭😭

[fathom schooner]

Honestly, i wish architect didn't have a diagonal pogo

[oblique quarry]

have you not saved up? ah well its fine you can buy them

[coral iron]

using sharpdart to pass through it is crazy good aswell. it can phase through despite it being fat

[old compass]

correction: you're broke

[fathom schooner]

Why do i need drill to have a drill pogo

[oblique quarry]

OH WAIT UR NOT ON STEEL SOUL OHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH

[cold trellis]

Then I guess you’ll have to play it the old fashion way. Just don’t get hit and beat the boss until its hp reach zero

[oblique quarry]

yea so steel soul has a really nice feature

[fathom schooner]

Architect is the silver spoon crest, we live on shaman crest aka broke homeless dude crest

[oblique quarry]

basically its ||infinite shell shards once you complete a specific wish||

[fathom schooner]

That wish however, sucks and might get you killed

[old compass]

your pfp reminds me of windette...r u?

[coral iron]

i used wanderer since i played before playing hk but after coming back after radiant hog hunter is so fun and easy to use

[oblique quarry]

yep, which is why you PREPARE LIKE HELL FOR IT

like i did

[fathom schooner]

Because my PFP was on windettes server banner for awhile, it was a bunch of people's PFPs drawn

[coral iron]

save scumming 🙂

[oblique quarry]

btw did they patch the savage beastfly cheese?

[old compass]

yeah, that

[oblique quarry]

cause i tried it on second encounter to make the tarmites despawn

[fathom pendant]

shoulda used that drill tool as a pogo

[oblique quarry]

and waited a long time, they were still there

[cold trellis]

One silk spear 💔

[fathom schooner]

Yeah i used to have a different hornet art for awhile then someone offered a bunch of people free handmade art and it became a bunch of people as the server banner

[fathom pendant]

my internet is dying guys my messages aren't sending

[coral iron]

i just came back after getting 1 more mask to get 7 and the second fight became so damn easy even without the cheese.

[oblique quarry]

its valuable silk that i could have used to beat up beastfly

[fathom schooner]

So now i have sitting hornet as my PFP

[old compass]

yippee

[fathom schooner]

No clue, i abused sawtooth circlet to deal with beastfly 2

[trim estuary]

How do I beat Lace??

[coral iron]

which one

[fathom schooner]

Tarmites suck at shooting you mid air, especially when you can sharp dart through them and immediately circlet them

[fathom pendant]

which one?

[trim estuary]

There’s more than one??

[cold trellis]

Well if you time it right, you can hit both the minions and savage beastfly

[trim estuary]

The one with the like white nun head thing

[fathom schooner]

Ahem, in the words of hornet

Git gud

[coral iron]

well its the same fight practically but yes

[fathom schooner]

The same fight but FASTER

[fathom pendant]

he's rage baiting I think he beat the game guys

[coral iron]

its really easy man...

well uh i guess just learn to pogo more

[fathom schooner]

Hit her more than she hits you

[trim estuary]

Okay well it would be

[oblique quarry]

yea well i went in there on steel soul with thread storm, cogflies, and 7 masks

[coral iron]

also if you hit her parry just jump over her quickly

[trim estuary]

But some guy that looks kind of like Steel Soul Jinn keeps interrupting the fight??

[coral iron]

what the fuck

[oblique quarry]

?????

[fathom pendant]

what are we on about bro

[coral iron]

im getting so confused 😭

[cold trellis]

Silkpost spotted

[trim estuary]

I’m not on the game right now so I can’t send a screenshot

Hold on lemme try to find a picture

[coral iron]

holy click bait

[fathom schooner]

See, im a madman and i rushed all the way to wings and then left the citadel to get masks and spools

[fathom pendant]

💀

[trim estuary]

Yeah this guy I think https://static.wikia.nocookie.net/hollowknight/images/a/a0/Steel_Assassin_Sharpe.png/revision/latest?cb=20181213034142

[coral iron]

😭

[fathom pendant]

ur tripping

[fathom schooner]

Unfortunately, i picked up the beastfly wish and then remembered i needed the far fields weavenest

[fathom pendant]

What'd u have tonight?

[coral iron]

do you have schizophrenia perchance

[cold trellis]

https://tenor.com/view/ishowspeed-laugh-monkey-ksi-primal-gif-15771937260145199571

[trim estuary]

Dude he keeps monologuing every time he enters the arena

[fathom pendant]

😭

[coral iron]

😭

[fathom pendant]

me when ragebait

[coral iron]

lmaoo

[oblique quarry]

🥀

[fathom schooner]

Also I just gotta say do not nerf circlet, its totally fair and balanced

[fathom pendant]

I've never used it I wouldn't know!

[fathom schooner]

Its busted

[fathom pendant]

I saw a video on its tech but

I didn't bother to learn it

[oblique quarry]

never used it, but it looks insane if you get good with it

[fathom pendant]

I suck at rhythm

[oblique quarry]

so much damage potential all from pressing the space bar

[fathom pendant]

or patterns I mean

[fathom schooner]

Circlet
-does more than the needle
-can hit twice by just turning around as you double jump
-can be spammed by taking 20 seconds to learn pogo with it
-has more range than all crests except shaman

[oblique quarry]

and you can spam it with drifters

[fathom schooner]

With the witch crest you can get it to hit 8 times in about 1 second

[fathom pendant]

..

[fathom schooner]

Which uh, its 27 damage per hit, can hit twice for over 50 damage

[fathom pendant]

I wonder if flint and flea work with it

[fathom schooner]

They do not, its not your needle

[fathom pendant]

oh sad

[cold trellis]

Too bad I have skill issues and cant ultilize the tool to its fullest potential

[fathom schooner]

But its also ALWAYS more damage than the needle

[oblique quarry]

just wait until pantheons come out

then we'll get all the practice we need on any kind of hitbox

[fathom schooner]

27 to your 21

[cold trellis]

I’ll beat it the old traditional way I ain’t no speed runner 💔

[fathom schooner]

And it can double hit, and even if you DONT put out max potential its still massive more damage by just, attacking

[fathom pendant]

they knew what they were doing

[cold trellis]

I WILL SUFFER IF I HAVE TO

[fathom pendant]

almost created something worse than fury of the fallen

[fathom schooner]

Because remember, you can ATTACK as you flair spam

[trim estuary]

Okay I left Deep Docks because Lace and that steel guy was pmo

[oblique quarry]

yea ill wait until pantheons to learn how to use this lmao

[fathom pendant]

..💀

[trim estuary]

oh god

[fathom schooner]

Honestly i recommend just putting it on because it makes flying enimies weak

[oblique quarry]

my pb silksong speedrun was last year and it was like 2h 30m i thnk? i dont remember

[fathom pendant]

pantheons? IN SILKSONG?

[opaque sigil]

the decision to just smash them together in a duo fight plus the new attacks was a choice

[fathom schooner]

Its got more range than your needle does

[oblique quarry]

hopefull

i wanna refight bosses some of them are fun

[fathom pendant]

I didn't even beat 3, 4 OR FIVE in the first game😔

[cold trellis]

Why we acting like silksong gonna have a pantheon mode 😂😂😂 They might as well as make it a game mode menu

[oblique quarry]

p5 is hella easy ngl

[fathom pendant]

I think silk song bosses are easier

[oblique quarry]

i beat it first try after coming back the other day

[fathom pendant]

so I think I got this

[fathom schooner]

You can do this really funny thing where you just jump at an enemy, attack, double jump right before you touch the ground, immediately cloak, and then pogo and do it again and you get like over 100 damage

Its risky against anything with a fast windup attack but it kills so many things fast

[cold trellis]

Absolute radiance still remains one of the boss I can’t consistently defeat despite already completing P5

[fathom pendant]

I wanted to fight the radiance just for fun instead of having to do hk but I found out I can't even

bc u can only fight ab rad anyways and u need go discover it first

[fathom schooner]

Just wait till we get absolute GMS

[oblique quarry]

i beat it first try after not playing for months

[fathom pendant]

lost gms😨

[cold trellis]

Absolute grand FODDER

[oblique quarry]

but then again i did do radiant HoG

[fathom schooner]

Remember, GMS is only fodder because of WITCH ENDING

[fathom pendant]

lwk lost grand mother silk would be cool

[cold trellis]

GMS, what do you mean you lost to a cursed and weakened Hornet. Why are you such a bum 💔

[fathom schooner]

Seepy

[trim estuary]

Not an excuse. Radiance is literally a dream

[mystic phoenix]

how hard gms would be if it had contact damage

actually nvm its not gonna be hard its just gonna be boring and long

[fathom pendant]

it took me like 5 tries to beat her

it wasn't that bad pretty easy

[cold trellis]

Dont you have a human heart

[fathom schooner]

Okay but like, silksongs just gonna throw sum sh*t at us like absolute lost grand mother and daughter once we get pantheons

[trim estuary]

Laaame

[fathom pendant]

guys

[trim estuary]

Phantom & Lace duo fight >>

[cold trellis]

Great, another gank boss

[mystic phoenix]

5 tries to beat gms with contact damage? cuz normal gms isnt that hard to beat it on 5th try

[fathom pendant]

what if all the bosses that have gauntlets in the pantheons we have to do those too

[trim estuary]

It wouldn’t be a GANK BOSS!!

[mystic phoenix]

unless you didnt play first hk

[fathom schooner]

Lace will make a cameo on literally every boss shes related to

[fathom pendant]

no I just suck

[trim estuary]

She’s gonna show up during the Unravelled fight??

[mystic phoenix]

okay

makes sense

[fathom pendant]

yes

[trim estuary]

Can we get Watcher Knights 2 in Sea of Sorrow

[fathom schooner]

And her own fight

[trim estuary]

No I think that will be Nosk actually

[fathom schooner]

Honestly i want the silkeater dude as a boss

[mystic phoenix]

no

[fathom schooner]

Hes obviously more than what he is, so BOSS TIME

[oblique quarry]

does anyone have the subtle glare effect gif from verdania

[mystic phoenix]

all i want is just plasmium stuff

[fathom schooner]

Something ate him anyway (possibly himself)

[eternal berry]

gms is easy because 1. she's not supposed to be like the radiance from hk; her fight is more like the hollow knight in the original game and 2. all her attacks are ones you've seen before

[fathom schooner]

Shes also weak because witch ending

[mystic phoenix]

i dont think i said that gms is hard

[cold trellis]

Which is ironic, as character, GMS is an obvious parallel to Radiance but her fight is a parallel to THK

[eternal berry]

yea

[severe steeple]

buff gms hp by 200

[eternal berry]

in lore and design she looks like she's radiance 2

[fathom schooner]

If witch ending wasnt a thing shed be stronger, old writes had the bells to open act 2 be tuning forks to weaken GMS cuz she was apparently strong enough to just steal hornets existence by walking into her arena if you didn't ring them

[cold trellis]

Luckily it not the case anymore I

[severe steeple]

thats a dumb reason though.

[cold trellis]

[eternal berry]

should have made the fight hellish and basically a superbuffed radiant mode but accessible from the start like botw

therefore sentencing youtubers and speedrunners to hell

[fathom schooner]

And honestly dont worry, if p5 taught us anything its that once bosses are removed from progression constraints, they will immediately be as strong as the devs want them to be

cough cough, remember sisters of battle

[mystic phoenix]

what if

plasmified savage lost lace

[severe steeple]

sad that gms doesnt have like an extra phase for act 3 trigger. I would have loved an extension to the fight so its not the ultra pushover

[fathom schooner]

She has to be a pushover until lace is boutta die

[oblique quarry]

sob is still really easy, just even mroe fun

[severe steeple]

no shes still a higher beeing and the final boss

[fathom schooner]

Yes but in comparison to mantis lords they are an entirely new level, dont forget PV or abs rad at the pantheons peak

Once removed from "player cant actually complete the game until they beat this boss" bosses get to be ultra BS and way harder

Hell they nerfed MOORWING AND SISTER SPLINTER because "player cant do anything until they beat these guys"

[oblique quarry]

pure vessel is really not too hard tbh and makes sense cause its pantheons afterall

[fathom schooner]

So, what happens when beating the boss is now irrelevant?

[eternal berry]

i wouldn't say really easy but yeah fun as hell

[fathom schooner]

I mean PV is my warmup on HK but its still the 2nd hardest boss in the game

Like, we just played way to much HK

[oblique quarry]

pure vessel was my first radiant boss

[flat remnant]

team cherry's next game should run on a calendar system

[oblique quarry]

alongside nightmare king grimm

[cold trellis]

Me who stuck on PV for a whole week reading this

[flat remnant]

and certain things happen on certain dates

[fathom schooner]

I beat radiant PV with every handicap imaginable

Because i love that boss

But that dosent make me say PV is easy, it makes me say im cracked

[cold trellis]

Same. Def my fav in HK

[fathom schooner]

Because PV kicked my ass for like 2 days before i finally got him on lock

[old compass]

how does quick sling work with drill tool

[severe steeple]

it dont

[cold trellis]

Try that out for yourself

[old compass]

oh

[severe steeple]

squick sling should just make the buff tools and drill slightly faster or something

[opaque sigil]

quick sling doesn't affect anything that isn't a thrown tool

[fathom schooner]

Honestly im more excited about silksong pantheons because i wanna see shit like "full chorus" (all 4 chorus at once) "silk sisters" (phantom + lace) or other crazy shit

[orchid spruce]

gonna take a while

[fathom schooner]

Pin and seamstress

[orchid spruce]

godhome will probably be the final update

[fathom schooner]

Oh it likely will

[orchid spruce]

which sucks

[fathom schooner]

They gotta make the other DLCs first

Id be okay with getting a hall of gods before pantheons tho

[orchid spruce]

not complainig tho

yeah gotta add all the bosses first

[fathom schooner]

You can expand the hall as DLC gets added, but pantheons gotta be last because of DLC bosses

[orchid spruce]

SoS + the current game is probably the real game

they just released it early in fear it never comes out

[fathom schooner]

If silksong is anything like HK expect 3 DLCs that add content + bosses, then a HOG that adds MORE bosses and the pantheons

[lavish apex]

sos will fix every flaw surely

[orchid spruce]

lowkey silksong is in early access

yues, sos will fix everything, we just have to believe

[severe steeple]

when will sos content even be. I would hope act 3 as act 2 is already stacked as is

[fathom schooner]

Also, because of SS % i expect the true final % to be much higher than 112%

[old compass]

steel soul all mementos update: beat lost garmond

[fathom schooner]

It will likely be act 3 exclusive, probably using pharloom falling apart as a way to open the new area

[oblique quarry]

i cant wait for sea of sorrow now

[lavish apex]

it's gonna add the path of pain equivalent and it won't be clawline spam it's gonna make red tools better it's gonna add areas with cool rewards throughout the base game
it's gonna make bosses drop rosaries

all of this is true and factual

[fathom schooner]

Also, would be annoying for everyone whos sitting at 100% to need to make a new file to see the act 2 parts of the dlc

[oblique quarry]

tbh i forgot how beautiful the game was, i kinda got numbed by the insane amount of slop content on youtube (hornet and lace yuri) and not playing through the game

[orchid spruce]

the new areas will no longer be a tall column with 6 branches

[lavish apex]

it's also gonna fix the slabfly entries

[fathom schooner]

Red tools BETTER?!

Red tools are already good with a couple sucking

[lavish apex]

better design-wise not stronger

my bad

[orchid spruce]

shards will be removed

[fathom schooner]

I mean i dont think any red tools design sucks except like... longpin

[severe steeple]

all I hope is that they properly balance tools this time. I find myself just never using some tools with them being borderline useless

[lavish apex]

i really mean the exact opposite of stronger with a shell shard overhaul

[fathom schooner]

If anything i want a blue+yellow tool overhaul because blue tools make no sense and have no proper categorization

[oblique quarry]

the blue tools are an extremely competitive landscape

[crisp heron]

someone should redraw this as hornet and vespa

[fathom schooner]

Red tools are activated
Blue tools are kinda combat kinda defensive
Yellow tools are utility but also offensive and traversal?

[oblique quarry]

with insane heavy hitters like volt filament fractured mask pollip pouch etc.

[lavish apex]

it's also gonna reduce act 3 requirements frfr ong

[fathom schooner]

Pollip pouch sucks lol

[oblique quarry]

but also situational like magma bell

[fathom schooner]

It does SIX extra damage at MAX tool kits

[oblique quarry]

but purple!! (also DOT is always welcome)

[orchid spruce]

in seriousness, they need to nerf red tools. buff shard bundles, buff shard deposits. then red tools are always fixed up to 50% for free when resting, the other 50% will use shards

[fathom schooner]

It does TWO extra damage at base

[oblique quarry]

AND? STFU MINMAXER

ITS PURPLE AND THATS ALL YOU NEED TO KNOW

[severe steeple]

yellow = movement, exploration and hornet self stat changes. blue = combat, direct damage reduction / defense. Not everything fits perfectly but thats roughly it

[orchid spruce]

just huff huff copium and pray

[severe steeple]

thats why I think some blue tools should be come yellow tools

[fathom schooner]

The actual competitive blue tools are multibinder, injector band, reserve bind, claw mirrors, sawtooth circlet, mask, volt fil

[orchid spruce]

the cherry lords may listen

[fathom schooner]

Yes, yellow should be defensive, blue offensive

The ONLY "defensive" tool that should remain blue is reserve bind

[remote talon]

unreliable sources tell me sea of sorrow in 2 days

[orchid spruce]

it will be in May

[oblique quarry]

claw mirrors is just kind of hard to use for most casual players tbf since you need to get close to bosses
sawtooth circlet too, idc if you think its good, for casual playthroughs its just a burden

[fathom schooner]

But like, magma bell, warding bell, druids eyes should become yellow

[lavish apex]

been 2 months since that last patch before it drops

[remote talon]

yellow has a massive deficit of good tools

theres only compass, dice and grip
also bracelet for challenge runs

[fathom schooner]

Its less a burden and more a learning curve but its still competitive, im more referring to people trying to get the most out of slots

[severe steeple]

nah because then injector brand and multibinder would be more defensive. Anything thats kinda health and damage related should be blue along with combat. Yellow should be utility (like compass) movement changes, environmental things (like maggot debuff) loosely speaking

[oblique quarry]

belt?

[remote talon]

ive never used it but yeah belt also counts

[oblique quarry]

weighted belt isnt as good as steady body but its still really good

[severe steeple]

like spool extender and wreath of purity should 100% be yellow tools no question

[odd hull]

real

[fathom schooner]

No, those should be yellow purely because they are defensive, even if combar oriented

[remote talon]

i think spool extender fits as a blue tool

[orchid spruce]

i beat him

[odd hull]

Heloo towel

[fathom schooner]

Unfortunately spool extenders only use is when you have 1 extra silk or are 3 off the max

[severe steeple]

it is just a stat change, it is what silk anklets is to movement speed and its way too weak for a blue slot

[odd hull]

Yeees congrats!

[fathom schooner]

Like it should give 4 extra silk storage instead of 3

[remote talon]

you get an extra silk skill use

[fathom schooner]

Then at least i can argue for it when at max spool

[odd hull]

I like his spirit a lot. Feels so good

[severe steeple]

you dont get an extra silk skill, you just get more max silk storage thats very different to something like egg of flea which reduces spell cost.

[orchid spruce]

it's a fucking shotgun

[odd hull]

yeah lmao

It became my main immediately

[severe steeple]

I think all it needs is being a yellow tool because then I would actually use it on some builds

[orchid spruce]

i'm still "maining" sword

but i keep it as my secondary

[odd hull]

Ah, nice

[oblique quarry]

all hail rosary cannon

[severe steeple]

well I can only hope tc cooks up some good balance changes with sos

[oblique quarry]

best red tool in the game btw

[orchid spruce]

also, i got ANOTHER parry

[odd hull]

Another?? Which

[orchid spruce]

||Hidden Test Subject||

[odd hull]

AH I forgot about that one

[orchid spruce]

i'm literally gonna run a full parry build

[fathom schooner]

Thats just because yellow tools suck

It should get a buff

[orchid spruce]

it's so obvious to me that parry is the best spirit in the game

[odd hull]

[orchid spruce]

but i am often mistaken

do other lilies players also think so

[severe steeple]

well sure then have it be 4 extra. Need better yellow tool selection

[orchid spruce]

spirit parry has a huge time window, it's probably over 1 second

[odd hull]

tbh I don't interact with the community. I only know 1 other person that played bc of me, but I'm not sure if they used parry much

[orchid spruce]

which is crazy for how much damage it does and how it staggers enemies

ah ok, what a shame

the community probably barely exists anyways tbh

[odd hull]

probably yeah, sadly

[orchid spruce]

it's a great game

[fathom schooner]

Things that should move to yellow
Multibinder: defensive and traversal oriented
Magma bell: pure defense
Reserve bind: i can argue either way for this, but im gonna argue yellow for the fact that you dont get silk much on parkour sections
Druids eyes: its bad but like it's not like the yellow tool selection is good anyway

[odd hull]

I think every spirit is kinda strong. The guy I talked about also used vastly different builds

[fathom schooner]

Oh, fragmented mask should go to yellow too, pure defensive

[orchid spruce]

the balancing is pretty good

[odd hull]

Yeah, they all feel good

[orchid spruce]

these enemies are fucking gone now that my parries have no cooldown because i can alternate

[odd hull]

lmaoooo

[orchid spruce]

fear my parries

[severe steeple]

silk generation and binding should stay out of yellow. Yellow should be stuff like Wreath of Purity

[fathom schooner]

Nah i want yellow to be a relevant combat slot

[odd hull]

That's funny, I never thought about equipping more than 1

[fathom schooner]

Stuff that dosent do damage or isnt a direct combat buff should/could go to yellow

[orchid spruce]

btw is there a boss rematch mode

[fathom schooner]

Like injector band, keep that blue, healing speed is irrelevant outside of combat

[severe steeple]

like maybe binding can be yellow but then you split up the binding related stuff and can make unintended busted combos

[orchid spruce]

i would want to do a few boss things later

[fathom schooner]

I mean as it stands you can have ALL the binding stuff anyway

[orchid spruce]

parry only stuff

[odd hull]

At the bench, just go on "memories" and select the boss you eant

[orchid spruce]

wait what

[odd hull]

yeah

[orchid spruce]

i thought that's just rewatching cutscenes

this game's the goat

[fathom schooner]

So like I'm not too worried about degenerate tool combos too much

[severe steeple]

at the const of not taking other blue tools so you take defense over combat or combat over defense

[odd hull]

There's cutscenes and rematches, it's cool

[fathom schooner]

But it is offensive because youve got claw mirror

[odd hull]

ikr !

[orchid spruce]

i really like the Return To Respite

[severe steeple]

thats the exception

[orchid spruce]

they make save quit to bench a feature instead of a "cheat"

and it's convenient and so nice

[odd hull]

Trueee

[fathom schooner]

But also, barbed bracelet should go to blue, and it needs a buff

25% needle damage for double damage taken, that should go up to 50%

Strength for you and the enemies

Id legitimately use barbed bracelet if it gave 50%

[eternal berry]

agreed with the blue portion, no on the buff

[odd hull]

I initially found the map a bit confusing, but that mechanic and being able to warp between any bench is quite handy

[fathom schooner]

Heck i thought it was double

Nah it needs a buff cuz its ass RN

[eternal berry]

its good for skilled players without being too op for them

[fathom schooner]

It has no competition and still isnt being used

It gives you FIVE damage at max needle

21->26

[orchid spruce]

same, but i think i like it now. tiny nitpick about not having markers, but that's alright. instead, i see which areas are done and whatnot

[stable narwhal]

sea of sorrows tomoro

[severe steeple]

nah we dont want undestructable strength 2.0. Especially pantheon radiance fights would be way too strong. Its also a sweet spot in yellow as an exception

[fathom schooner]

Like, if HK can have strength with no drawbacks, we can have strength with a massive drawback

[eternal berry]

horght
kninet

[eternal berry]

strength with no drawbacks is unfair and unbalanced as shit

[fathom schooner]

I mean HK was unbalanced as shit

[severe steeple]

strength was the most busted, unbalanced charm in the game

[eternal berry]

even fragile strength tbh

[fathom schooner]

Quick slash was better but yes

[wicked mason]

ea

[fathom schooner]

But also, its DOUBLE DAMAGE TAKEN

Like, that's MASSIVE, we already take 2 from almost all sources

[odd hull]

Yeah, the colors for completed rooms helps a lot

[wicked mason]

healing balances everything

its really that easy man

[fathom schooner]

50% damage (only needle strikes too) for double damage taken isnt worth the risk for most things

[wicked mason]

wait r u talking about the spiky bracelet

[severe steeple]

25% is huge, its for speedrunners and not for regular intended players thats fine. Super high reward for an ultra high risk only for the most skilled players

[fathom schooner]

Like, you'd need multi binder stapled too yourself to offput 4 mask damage

[orchid spruce]

yeah, overall the map is a bit harder to explore but will be easier to 100%

[fathom schooner]

And even then its still a massive risk

I think 50% for 4/6 mask damage is a fair compromise

[wicked mason]

6 damag 💔

[fathom schooner]

25% isn't doing much

[orchid spruce]

anyways i'll update you on my progress if there's anything significant

i'm liking the game a lot

[wicked mason]

fragile strengh peak

bracelet ass

[severe steeple]

barbed bracelet is just the way it should be imo. I dont use it much but I dont think thats what the tool should be. At most you buff it to 33% damage

[fathom schooner]

The tools idea is high risk high reward

But as it stands its high risk middling reward

[wicked mason]

imagine getting oneshot in a speedrun by grandma silk or lace

[odd hull]

I'm glad to hear

[odd hull]

Alr then

[orchid spruce]

[fathom schooner]

33% would at least be worth it honestly it would send you from 21 -> 28

50% sends you to 32

[severe steeple]

ultra risk high reward. 25% damage is insane. I would honestly say it should only have one thing changed and that is that the 25% applys to spells aswell

[fathom schooner]

Remember we are also fighting damage modifiers at all times tho

25% isnt insane is the problem

Its FIVE damage, for DOUBLE taken

[wicked mason]

?

[severe steeple]

you arent supposed to use barbed bracelet. Its a nohitters tool and thats fine. No regular player deserves 25% damage from a yellow tool

[fathom schooner]

But i dont want it to be a no hitters tool, i want it to be USEFUL and worth considering

[wicked mason]

team cherry had to consider all player types

so they made stuff fitting for people and stuff that fit other types of people

[fathom schooner]

I want it to be an actual choice of "am i good enough to beat this boss before i choke"

[wicked mason]

like barbed bracelet and architect crest

[fathom schooner]

But having a tool be just a no hitters tool is stupid

[severe steeple]

I have used it for some bosses and the 25% extra damage is massive enough anything above 33% would be busted

[wicked mason]

they are extremely different

[exotic dome]

https://tenor.com/view/person-below-me-gets-chocolate-cake-person-below-me-gets-chocolate-cake-gif-5547626451795509463

[wicked mason]

m

chkake

[fathom schooner]

I used it for broodmother and it didn't honestly do much

[wicked mason]

yum h

[wicked mason]

broodmother 😨

[severe steeple]

instead of 40 hits it took you then 30. Thats way faster

[wicked mason]

i hate broodmother

[fathom schooner]

Okay one sec, let me check the wiki and do some math and I'll get back to you, im gonna check some endgame bosses with max needle VS max with bracelet

[wicked mason]

i can fight any boss but broodmother

i cant stay consistent with broodmother

curse broodmother

[severe steeple]

better jukes than beastfly

[wicked mason]

what does that mean

[orchid spruce]

broodmother is decent

[wicked mason]

broodmother is my nightmare

[severe steeple]

does unexpected moves

[wicked mason]

i wouldnt exactly agree with that

[fathom schooner]

Okay so LL takes 90 hits to kill with max needle (counting her effective 1890 HP from her 5% damage resistance) this is reduced to 73 with barbed bracelet on

[orchid spruce]

the boss has like 3 moves

[lavish apex]

that's not how math works

[wicked mason]

combos

[orchid spruce]

slam over the arena, throw self, spit children

[wicked mason]

1800 hp wasnt it?

[fathom schooner]

Thats 17 hits less for the possibility of getting 2 shot by getting comboed from her 3 mask hit and anything else

She has 5% damage resistance at max needle

[wicked mason]

m

[fathom schooner]

An effective HP of 1890

[severe steeple]

roughly it does I wasnt gona bother actually mathing it out. 25% more damage means you deal 1 extra hit every 4 hits

[fathom schooner]

But thats not how the math maths out

Every 4 hits you do 20 additional damage, not 21

Rounding hurts you

[severe steeple]

youre acting as if thats whats stopping it form being good

[fathom schooner]

And uh, 17 less hits on the FINAL BOSS for the risk of getting TWO SHOT

No, im acting as if whats stopping it from being CONSIDERED is that it dosent give you enough value for it risking your life

[wicked mason]

why is the silksong community so adojfekjasnl

[severe steeple]

if youre good enough then hell yeah, thats exactly waht its for a barbed bracelet for those who like the punishment

[lavish apex]

increasing your own damage by 25% is not really even particularly close to reducing the boss hp by 25%

[fathom schooner]

I mean i also just dont think your argument is very good from a game design standpoint

[wicked mason]

just fucking play the game bro why are we arguing about 2.458% damage advantages 💔

[fathom schooner]

"Its for no hitters" is bad by design in a game NOT designed for no hitters

[severe steeple]

the bracelet should only be buffed to work with silk spells aswell and maybe slightly increase damage but its already a nobrainer for the future radiant boss fights

[fathom schooner]

Its a risk/reward tool, but its not giving decent rewards for the risk

[exotic dome]

what boss are we talking about

[wicked mason]

m

[severe steeple]

people dont complain about overcharming not being casual player friendly do they. This is silksongs equivalent see it that way

[orchid spruce]

plasmified lace

[wicked mason]

the game is made for everyoe bro

[fathom schooner]

Okay but now were acting like radiant bosses are the norm and that we shouldn't buff something specifically because it might be too strong for whats going to be the HARDEST THINGS IN THE GAME

Im okay with barbed bracelet being better than average for radiant fights, because i want it to have use OUTSIDE those fights

[severe steeple]

you just cant give out 50% extra damage like that

[lavish apex]

you can actually

[fathom schooner]

But, we can, and its easily worth the risk

[lavish apex]

it's fine

that is a 100% fair tradeoff for double damage. everyone acting like stat buffs are satan because some hk charms were busted is crazy

[fathom schooner]

Remember, im talking ENDGAME balancing here, things CAN do 3 damage, and our max masks are 10, so with this on, we get 50% damage and now risk getting 2 shot by any attack that does 3 damage sending us to 4 masks

[severe steeple]

I dont want it to have use outside of it because if downside doesnt outweigh upside drastically then I wouldnt be scared to use it

[fathom schooner]

and if you can not get hit enough, you should be rewarded hell WE ALREADY CAN GET 50% DAMAGE

[severe steeple]

its a barbed bracelet if you can endure the pain you get the strongest buff in the game

[lavish apex]

ok that's fine actually another tool with more convincing utility isn't gonna hurt the game man

[fathom schooner]

Hunter crest ALREADY SHOWS we can in fact give the player 50% damage without being game breaking

[sharp slate]

oooo barbed braclet talk

[desert abyss]

Of what? 25%?

[sharp slate]

I liked barbed braclet its fine to have things exclusive to different skill levels

[exotic dome]

was it 50% when the game came out? i think i remember something like that

[orchid spruce]

barbed bracelets is fine af

[fathom schooner]

So yes, we can set the players effective health to 2-4 for 50% more needle damage

[sharp slate]

fury for example is cool imo as well

[orchid spruce]

it's a different design philosophy, maybe not your jam but it's not a huge issue

[lavish apex]

it's Fine but i think it would be cool if it was buffed

[severe steeple]

the crest was balanced around that though and it works in the same pro player way that only the best players are gona get use out of it.

[fathom schooner]

Nah barbed bracelet currently sucks and should be buffed to 33-50% damage

[fathom schooner]

WHICH I'M NOT CHANGING

[sharp slate]

i think 50% would be too much, they specifically toned down the numbers for a reason

[exotic dome]

fury pays off better i think, you get 75% buff for the risk of getting one shotted

[sharp slate]

they wanted to prevent what you see in hk (for better or for worse thats their intent)

[fathom schooner]

Im not making it LESS damage, im making it MORE reward for the fact that YOUR PROBABLY GONNA DIE

[lavish apex]

yeah the downside does that

[orchid spruce]

fury is super high risk

[severe steeple]

50% is an auto insta allways 10000% pick for anyone that can reliably dodge boss fights and isnt a first time player.

[orchid spruce]

the 75% buff is kinda deserved

[exotic dome]

maybe something in between like 35% or something?

[lavish apex]

and also wanting to prevent what happened in hk is why so many tools are underwhelming and bad but whatever

[sharp slate]

Fury is basically useless outside godhome while barbed is a good compromise for risk vs reward imo

[lavish apex]

no it isn't

[sharp slate]

i dont for a second run it would be an autopick

[orchid spruce]

not an insta-pick for a first playthrough, no

[severe steeple]

Ok then make it 33% and works with spells. Im just saying for its current yellow tool placement 25% is enough. If other yellow tools are buffed so should bracelet

[sharp slate]

i think you are underestimating how many times people still get hit on second playthrough

[orchid spruce]

but for second playthroughs or high level play, it prob would be everywhere

[fathom schooner]

Okay using LL as a baseline for this damage talk
Base max needle: 90 hits
Max needle + bracelet: 73 hits
Max needle + bracelet (33% instead of 25%): 68 hits
Max needle + bracelet (50% instead of 25): 60 hits

So, if we give the player 50% more damage the boss only dies THIRTY THREE PERCENT FASTER

AND WE RISK GETTING 2 SHOT

[severe steeple]

I would, I already do for bosses I know well. I ran it on cogwork dancers killed them so quick

[orchid spruce]

bad maths

[fathom schooner]

THE MATH DONT LIE, ITS NOT THAT BUSTED

That is not bad maths what are you on

[exotic dome]

i'll check for karmelita

[sharp slate]

Really think it depends on ther person, i breezed through a second playthrough but i didnt struggle on sk at all, there are gonna be a lot of people that still struggle on a second playthrough hell steel soul is proof of that

[severe steeple]

ok we buff bracelet to 33% + works on silk spells if other yellow tools also get buffed. That I would find reasonable. thats my final take there

[sharp slate]

think of all the people that fail steel soul multiple times

[exotic dome]

WHO are you

[fathom schooner]

Current bracelet gives 5 damage sending you to 26 per hit, 33% would send you to 28 per hit, 50% would send you to 32 per hit

And thats against LLs 1890 HP (effective HP thanks to 5% damage resistance)

[orchid spruce]

op

[sharp slate]

i honestly think barbed is fine as is, but changing it to 33% wouldnt** cause much uproar, 50% i feel like is too much for how silksong is designed imo

[severe steeple]

yeah but I just dont want the scaryness of bracelet reduced too much. Imo its important to have it be niche meant for good players

[fathom schooner]

Honestly that would be even stronger as we would be indirectly buffing shaman

[orchid spruce]

50% bit much, 35% good compromise

[exotic dome]

i'm ok with either of them honestly

[orchid spruce]

but knowing team cherry this will never happen

it will stay 25% end of story

[fathom schooner]

I honestly dont want to make bracelet less scary at all, i want it to be worth using despite the fear

[severe steeple]

yeah but then atleast its useable with shaman otherwise whos using it

[fathom schooner]

50% wouldn't make it busted auto use, it would make it legitimately worth the choice

[fathom schooner]

Wanderer players with multibinder

[sharp slate]

no matter what good players are gonna use it, only thing increasing it does will make hitless challenges easier overall which is interesting idk how it would effect it directly

[orchid spruce]

it's a different design philosophy

[sharp slate]

i would need to lab out some runs with 50% damage instead of 25%

[fathom schooner]

I just did the math for LL

[azure mist]

Top 5 best Silksong OSTs;
#5: Idk
#4: Idk
#3: Idk
#2: Idk
#1: THE ENTIRE FUCKING OST-

[fathom schooner]

LL base takes 90 hits, with 50% its down to 60

[sharp slate]

i think even if you put barbed at 50% most people wont use it

[lavish apex]

50% more damage to take double is absolutely fair to create a tradeoff that normal players will want to engage with in every other game but because silksong equippables can only give you $1 on a rainy thursday at 6 pm everyone thinks it'd be evil

[versed pollen]

50% damage boosts tend to hit some nasty breakpoints

[orchid spruce]

silksong glazer spotted, execute

[sharp slate]

healing is just so powerful

[severe steeple]

dont make hitless too easy though. Hitless is a self proposed challenge that will likely become part of the game with radiant fights

[fathom schooner]

Yeah, and we currently have 50% in hunter crest

[exotic dome]

true

[sharp slate]

agreed, but i dont think 50% would make it easy, i wouldnt want it changed imo

[fathom schooner]

So i dont think giving 50% to other crests (again you are risking getting comboed to death in 2 screw ups) is too OP for a yellow

[severe steeple]

that crest was designed with it though and its even harder to maintain compared to just having it by default

[fathom schooner]

33% and affects silk skills is honestly a fair compromise tho

[versed pollen]

I also recall barbed being multiplicative as opposed to additive. Which is kind of disgusting if buffed to 50%

[fathom schooner]

28 base makes silk skills nuts

[sharp slate]

i think the main effect you see of giving barbed braclet a buff is against normal enemies not bosses

it would be interesting to calc breakpoints

for example in crawfather barbed braclet allows 2 hits on craws with hunter focus while without barbed its 3 atm

[versed pollen]

I think so too

[severe steeple]

33% it is

[sharp slate]

its multiplicative interesting didnt know that

[severe steeple]

send it and ship it to tc

[orchid spruce]

33% or 35% is a happy compromise (will still never happen)

[fathom schooner]

For instance if we have 28 then we get (counting volt filament and shaman crest) we get a lovely ONE HUNDRED AND FOURTY EIGHT DAMAGE sharpdart

(28x 2.75 x 1.65 + .25x3)

[severe steeple]

volt filament wouldnt be effected though thats a seperate thing like pollip pouch

[exotic dome]

it would probably be the highest damaging single attack

[wicked mason]

i HATE T

whhyyyy

[severe steeple]

tea

[fathom schooner]

Volt filament and shaman are multiplicitive on the needle base damage

The volt fil and shaman crest dont apply to specific hits of specific spells

[wicked mason]

🫖

cubhead

🤯

[severe steeple]

alright then. well sure is a glass canon strat

[fathom schooner]

(Sharp darts 3 after dash slashes, or thread storm extension hits)

[wicked mason]

js gimme my image perms back bro 😭

[severe steeple]

cant heal when using spell

[stable narwhal]

the dlc crest better be good

im so looking forward to it

[fathom schooner]

Oh and uh thread storm gets to do 169 with full extension

[exotic dome]

% buffs are added to each other so
shaman buff (40%) + filament (25%) + buffed bracelet (33%) = 98% silk skill buff

[fathom schooner]

No no no

Silk skills do % based of NEEDLE DAMAGE

[wicked mason]

do i never get my image perms if i got muted once

[fathom schooner]

Then volt fil and shaman apply AFTER

[orchid spruce]

i lowkey hope sos gets delayed to july

[stable narwhal]

pleaaaaaaase dont make it be a crest with a lot of attack timing delay like reaper and beast

[orchid spruce]

i have no money atm

[wicked mason]

or can i chat and get them again

[severe steeple]

what if the dlc crest has mini plasmium overdose built in

[wicked mason]

free

[stable narwhal]

it's free

[wicked mason]

🤑

[stable narwhal]

unless you havent bought silksong at all

[orchid spruce]

ahem

[sharp slate]

tbh it is interesting to hear people talk about calcs, honestly never looked into this myself so neat to know some of the math behind it

[orchid spruce]

i never played silksong sorry

[fathom schooner]

So base needle damage, X the silk skills damage mod (this ranges from .25 all the way to 2.75 depending on the spell) then you multiply THAT by 1.65

[wicked mason]

mmmmannnn

[severe steeple]

I dont got perms

[stable narwhal]

what are you doing here then

[wicked mason]

u do

[lavish apex]

paid for not played

[orchid spruce]

larping

[fathom schooner]

I check calcs because some bosses have weird HP values and multis

For instance, moorwing in act 1 has almost double widows HP, but takes less hits to kill than widow

[sharp slate]

yea, everything i have done in game atm is all vibes based so far, too lazy for math lmfao

[severe steeple]

keep larping untill the last dlc comes out when you emerge and get the best possible experience

[exotic dome]

same

[fathom schooner]

Act 1/2 moorwing has 600 hp, but a 2x multi at needle 1

[wicked mason]

ih

[fathom schooner]

Widow has less than 400 HP, but a permanent 1x multi (this will be changed when pantheons come out)

[stable narwhal]

2x multiplier???

[fathom schooner]

Yeah it takes double damage at needle 1

[severe steeple]

widow gives less attack opportunities though, means less healing means less damage

[wicked mason]

u died alot h

[fathom schooner]

It has a 1x multi at needle 3

[stable narwhal]

damn that's a lot more health

[sharp slate]

i didnt though 😎

[fathom schooner]

Widow needs to be hit more than moorwing to die tho

[lavish apex]

why did they do this

[severe steeple]

also all act 1 bosses are gona get stat changed in pantheon obviously they got nothing on max level needle

[stable narwhal]

does any of the hk bosses have this multiplier after upgrades

[opaque sigil]

so tools and needle scale separately

[wicked mason]

light work ngl

[sharp slate]

if i recall right yes

[fathom schooner]

For instance widow has 360 HP but a 1x needle multi, and needs to be hit 72 times to be killed
Moorwing needs to be hit 60 times

[wicked mason]

for me nyleth was my chokepoint

[lavish apex]

no i mean i get why the multipliers exist but like why are moorwing's like that

[sharp slate]

watcher knights, grimm, hive knight i think all are effected by nail upgrades if i recall right

[versed pollen]

The only multiplier is warrior dream HP based on nail upgrades iirc

[opaque sigil]

hk doesn't have a multiplier it just changed boss health, which means spells can functionally be WAY more powerful if you don't upgrade

[fathom schooner]

Widow can never be fought with anything but needle 1, moorwing can be skipped until act 2

[severe steeple]

are the pantheons gona include enemie gauntlets you think? Its a big part of silksong

[fathom schooner]

Actually you could skip moorwing till act 3, but it gets double HP in act 3

From 600 to 1200

[exotic dome]

some modifiers are funny, why does karmelita have 0.95 modifiers for max needle

[sharp slate]

think the ones i mentioned are as well, but you are right dream warriors are clear example, reason to you can shade soul them so easily with nail 0 lol

silksongs silk skill change for damage is SOOOOO GOOOD

[opaque sigil]

well you're supposed to fight it without upgrades, but if you skip it with fleas to get upgrades it keeps it sort of reasonable

[kind tide]

https://tenor.com/view/embed-no-no-embed-megamind-megamind-meme-gif-25261934

[versed pollen]

Yea SStone cleans house so you just don't upgrade your nail

[fathom schooner]

Oh and moorwings modifiers are
2, 1.3, 1, .9, .85

[sharp slate]

skill scaling of naildamage

[opaque sigil]

it just sucks that pale oils are so annoying

[trim estuary]

that’s still years away. Silksong isn’t even close to finished

[fathom schooner]

Which means respectively you deal
10, 12, 13, 15, or 18 damage to moorwing

Oh and uh, that means if you deal 18 damage to moorwing, it has DOUBLE hp

[severe steeple]

only the flea one is

[fathom schooner]

Because needle 5 is impossible pre act 3

[opaque sigil]

great taste also sucks to do on a second playthrough the rasher just isn't fun

[fathom schooner]

Bro rasher is easy and free

Just run through sinners road and up exhaust organ

It takes less than 3 minutes and is basically risk free

[trim estuary]

<@&283547423706447872> No thank you

[severe steeple]

shits medium work tbh

[fathom schooner]

Dude the sinners road route takes 3 minutes and has basically 0 enimies

[opaque sigil]

rasher isn't hard it's just annoying and so is a lot of the great taste shit

[fathom schooner]

The hardest part is not running into a fuckin wall

[opaque sigil]

it's just tedious

[severe steeple]

light overreaction don ya think

[lavish apex]

i don't mind rasher but trying to do it as soon as you can unlock it is fucking awful

[fathom schooner]

I just did rasher last because i didn't wanna go back to the citadel till i was getting the last oil

[trim estuary]

People have been muted for less

[opaque sigil]

obviously flea festival is way worse but the bar for that is in hell

[lavish apex]

i think great taste is fine

[fathom schooner]

Oh yeah see this playthrough i rushed citadel didn't do shit in act 1 and then went directly to clawline and wings and then left the citadel to go get the stuff i left behind

[severe steeple]

as long as people dont push it that was 1 message

[fathom schooner]

So uh, ive spent 90% of this run with wings

[opaque sigil]

oh right this channel sucks ass

[fathom schooner]

Because i refused to leave the citadel until i had all the possible mobility so i could go get all shards+spools

[runic atlas]

I disagree I'd say it was a fair reaction

[fathom schooner]

Valid reaction

[cold trellis]

[runic atlas]

I'm just trying to make sense of your logs then I'd say I'll be pretty over it

[lavish apex]

it's like he's trying to catch a mute

[cold trellis]

Why is bro doubling down 😭

[fathom schooner]

Bro my "elitism" is just math

[severe steeple]

put him in the slab

[fathom schooner]

I fuckin suck at the game, i just know the math behind why i suck

[stable narwhal]

wish i could play this game on mobile properly

[fathom schooner]

Im min maxing with math and still dying

[cold trellis]

Why would you play silksong on mobile

[orchid spruce]

[stable narwhal]

let me just download it from the app store

[trim estuary]

All video games have math in them

[stable narwhal]

why not

[orchid spruce]

ori 1 and ori 2 are chill metroidvanias

[robust cargo]

Hey daddy

[fathom schooner]

Someone has paid 0 attention to the VERY complex modifiers put into every enemy

[robust cargo]

ahem

[cold trellis]

Wym by chill metroidvania

[stable narwhal]

peak mentioned

[orchid spruce]

chill as in easy

[lavish apex]

reminder to microwave your yis

[orchid spruce]

oh yeah

[fathom schooner]

Huh, i wonder how math might apply to the game thats primarily about math (min maxing is literally just math but for damage)

[cold trellis]

Not if you play on hard difficulty

[orchid spruce]

i'm playing ori 2 on hard, it's like chill

normal/easy mode is probably intended for newborns

[stable narwhal]

i mean compared to silksong it's easy but my definition of chill is way different from yours i think

[cold trellis]

I intend to play Ori 2 in normal diff, you know, the intended way

[cobalt pilot]

What seems to be the problem

[robust cargo]

Huh

[cold trellis]

Moderators 😭

[fathom schooner]

Oh dang he vanished

[plucky stag]

they're like playing paintings, i swear

[robust cargo]

@cobalt pilot is crazy

[severe steeple]

binded

[cold trellis]

Yep he’s gone

[orchid spruce]

having some tiny bit of challenge helps you more entertained