sk-discussion

[buoyant urchin]

What did the buff even add to him

[sharp slate]

yea like 1-2 months ago or so

i honestly dont recall

[buoyant urchin]

Technically he is the only boss in act 3 to be easy as fuck

[sharp slate]

i think more traps or something

[buoyant urchin]

And if you say lost garmond you have no heart jump off a bridge-

[light swan]

SECOND PHASE ??????/

[charred tiger]

when

[light swan]

should i refight gurr is gurr fun i know gurr is awesome and fun but i dont know how fun

[sharp slate]

patch 4 i have no clue when that fucking was

[charred tiger]

i fought him a few weeks ago

no second phase in sight

[sharp slate]

he would have been buffed then

second phase is when spikes come out of the ground i assume\

[buoyant urchin]

What trap are these
The ones he throws at the air?
I wish he had ground traps too and cages in the fight

[light swan]

spikes come out of the ground?

[potent vessel]

reworked gurr is miles better than original gurr

[light swan]

how have i never heard of this

[buoyant urchin]

I need to check the reworked one

[potent vessel]

its basically just faster and more fluid

but it makes it a lot better

[light swan]

guess i know what i need to fight

[vale whale]

those noobs are vicious

[charred tiger]

gurr and khann when they use powers and traps while their strongest ability is random contact damage

[vale whale]

i have been humiliated twice over

man

[light swan]

stop humilliating yourself

[sharp slate]

tbh gurr is probably one of my favorite fights now

[vale whale]

im twinkijg in ds1

the noobs adapted to my strategy and beat my ass

[light swan]

i already knew that but i never bothered to go back and refight

[buoyant urchin]

Okay new gur is fucking cool wth

[vale whale]

THEY REMADE GURR???

WHEN

[buoyant urchin]

He doesnt sit there and throw traps he spins and throws it all
He is faster and spawns traps on the ground

[toxic vigil]

what are some cool mods to use

[sharp slate]

this conversation just went in a circle

[cunning geode]

“twinking?”

[sharp slate]

#sk-discussion message

[vale whale]

you get good gear and kill new players

[buoyant urchin]

Just absolute cenima actually looks fun

[vale whale]

the new players ganked me

[cunning geode]

you mean SMURFING?

well i guess that’s not smurfing

[light swan]

anyone got a video of new gurr

gurr is genuinely one of the most auraful bosses in the game

[sharp slate]

i only got a video of me speed killing him which doesnt really show it xD

[light swan]

aw

did he just get buffed one

[drifting aspen]

whos gurr again .

[queen acorn]

day 9 of daily palestag hate

[opaque sigil]

Skarr boss who spams traps

[odd hull]

big ant that hunts you

[twilit gale]

YESSSSSS FUCK YOU GRANDMA ABSORB YOURSELF INTO ME

[calm lily]

hello bugs

[buoyant urchin]

I think thats well job
Anyways goodbye to gurr throwing traps animation
Its lost media now

[odd hull]

Heloo

[drifting aspen]

what lmao

[opal pelican]

thats it?

[queen acorn]

i js started 9 days ago gimme a bit

[opal pelican]

gotta get creative with it or smth atleast

[umbral ether]

what

[light swan]

@sharp slate have you seen my recent second fentanyl fights idk if you saw the teleports but im wondering if you have any feedback

[queen acorn]

what else am i

[light swan]

or thougths idk, you sound like the type of person with good takes

[drifting aspen]

bruh is that a dlc or just hidden somewhere

[twilit gale]

23 hours first ending complete holy shit

[odd hull]

Which act are you on

[drifting aspen]

3

[odd hull]

Have you beaten the game?

[drifting aspen]

got the endings of act 2

silk queen and twisted child

[toxic vigil]

hidden

[drifting aspen]

oh ok

[toxic vigil]

its not even really that hidden, you get a quest for it

[drifting aspen]

in which act

[toxic vigil]

3

[drifting aspen]

nice

[twilit gale]

It's finally time to explore the world of act 1 again

[drifting aspen]

aight bet then

[odd hull]

Literally me

[queen acorn]

yo this vid a relic

[twilit gale]

FUCK I ACCIDENTALLY PRESSED THE DONATE BUTTON😭😭😭

[vale whale]

WE ARE SO BACK BABY WOOHOO RETRIBUTION

[buoyant urchin]

LET BRO BREATH

[opal pelican]

im surprised this game still has servers

[charred tiger]

what game is even that

[vale whale]

dark souls 1

[opal pelican]

i think its super monkey ball

[vale whale]

i kill noobs

because i suck at fighting people my level

[charred tiger]

oh so you're a bastard

[vale whale]

switch is weirdly active today

[charred tiger]

i see.

[vale whale]

my main twink build uses bastard sword yeah

[opal pelican]

theres a part 2??

[sharp slate]

ill have to take a look later, i gotta hop off for now though

[queen acorn]

why isnt there

an interuption

[opal pelican]

its the part 2

[queen acorn]

theres 2???

[opal pelican]

you can see he flips off the door

[queen acorn]

lmao

[opal pelican]

implying it was recorded right after the interruption

[queen acorn]

fire

[calm lily]

send hollow knight to pharloom

[strange knot]

pretty sure these are all of the skips

[queen acorn]

pharloom is DONE for

[opal pelican]

pale king seems like the kind of guy too send a large ball of obsidian to pharloom

[queen acorn]

oh my god please let this become canon

[buoyant urchin]

Is there a video where he doesnt uh
Get shredded

[rocky jolt]

gurr the great

[toxic vigil]

this is what shredding is

[odd hull]

HK would be executed by the first mossgrub

[strange knot]

Oh except Whiteward elevator and lever skips, and sands of karak flea skip

[restive sluice]

https://tenor.com/view/hornet-silksong-stick-bugged-stick-bugged-gif-5833534606468811764

[calm lily]

okay

[buoyant urchin]

You still ate half of his health bec he stood in place
Also hollow knight players are on something I swear
HOW DO PEOPLE DO THAT
WHAT

[opal pelican]

remember when people used to fight the bosses

[broken seal]

Sawtooth Circlet (best blue tool)

[toxic vigil]

circlet

[buoyant urchin]

And then it gets hit with a nerf in the dlc

[toxic vigil]

i have it in my name

[calm lily]

how did they kidnapped hornet though

[unkempt steeple]

The knight is getting one shot by those pilgrims who throw themselves at you

[carmine cobalt]

Anyone wanna play? dms open!

[broken seal]

it should be nerfed but i hope they only lower the damage of it without removing any of it's current combo potential or mechanics

[toxic vigil]

make it needle dmg + the 1

[broken seal]

it's really cool and fun to use rn so i think they just need to lower the damage it deals and it's perfect

[broken seal]

so 22 damage instead of 28? 😭

[devout dove]

how the genuine fuck do i beat seth

[opal pelican]

this just makes it useless to anyone using it normally

[toxic vigil]

yeah
atleast a start

[opal pelican]

theres no good way to balance it while keeping that in

[calm lily]

sooo hallownester are no match to pharloom boys

[broken seal]

useless is crazy

[buoyant urchin]

It probably will
Most things are definitely getting nerfed i dont think 3 people would find out the whole fandom would use items and break the game with it
Either they nerf it
Or watch the next bosses become hell

[broken seal]

also saying this isn't normally is kinda just wrong lol

[opal pelican]

if you lower the damage so its balanced when doing allat bullshit its gona be useless when using it the intended way

[strange knot]

Making all techs impossible is an even worse way to balance circlet

[broken seal]

what is "the intended way??"

[opal pelican]

did i say that i wanted to do that???

[opal pelican]

not using it to animation cancel everything and do 20000 damage

[broken seal]

not what sawtooth does 💔

[opal pelican]

you still get my point

[serene mountain]

Damn gms was much easier than I expected

[broken seal]

the "intended" way you're thinking is either throwing it out occasionally to deal with flying enemies or to jump while attacking to spam it (which is what's in the wanderer clip lol)

lowering the damage wouldn't make it useless in either of these scenarios, just balanced

[toxic vigil]

also spogos are quite easy
atleast on reaper

[calm lily]

granny silk

[opal pelican]

if you want to make it balanced while doing all the tech that gives you 20000 extra damage its gonna do insanely small damage when used normally

[broken seal]

you can get very large dps buffs with the simplest of sawtooth tech, most of it not even being real "tech"

[broken seal]

not really 😭

[toxic vigil]

tech?

[opal pelican]

"yeah the thing that kills bosses in 20 seconds is gonna be completely fine and balanced in both situations if we make it deal 5 damage"

[toxic vigil]

its just jump attack djump attack and repeat drifter's -> attack

[opal pelican]

idk where you guys got the idea that the only circlet video ive ever seen is that singular video

[toxic vigil]

its not fucking hard to use

[opal pelican]

but like it isnt

[broken seal]

you're greatly exaggerating the difference between the advanced sawtooth tech and just pressing the jump and attack button together real fast, which is the "intended" way to use sawtooth for damage. Even just pressing B and Y together (controller) a few times will increase your needle dps by crazy amounts. Lowering the damage wouldn't gut the intended uses of the tool

[opal pelican]

it kinda is but that also really doesnt matter for this conversation

[toxic vigil]

this takes like 0 skill

[opal pelican]

yeah i think i can tell

but youre also using it like shit

[graceful cairn]

B and Y are bind and needolin 😭

[broken seal]

i use switch lol mb

[toxic vigil]

its still doing like
40% of the damage

[graceful cairn]

ohhh right

[opal pelican]

what is your point here

[odd hull]

I was so confused

[broken seal]

and this very basic usage of sawtooth is giving a LARGE dps buff, and it would for any crest, not just Reaper

[odd hull]

"wdym B and Y???

[opal pelican]

yeah????

and im saying you can get much much more i have seen it

you cannot have both be balanced at the same time

[broken seal]

just hitting the jump button together with attacking (the INTENDED use for sawtooth to get more damage) increases your dps by insane amounts already

[opal pelican]

why do you keep emphasizing intended bro i said that once

[broken seal]

so nerfing the damage wouldn't make the intended use useless

[twilit stump]

who would win between full power hornet or full power night (pre endings)

[opal pelican]

if the intended use is balanced then the super high level is still gonna be broken

my entire point is you cant have both be balanced at the same time

[toxic vigil]

okay?
you can make atleast 1 balanced instead of 2 op

[broken seal]

advanced sawtooth tech isn't THAT much of an increase from spamming jump + attack, the main increase in it's power is because it's versatile and allows you to adapt to whatever the enemy is doing

[opal pelican]

it really is i think youre just disillusioned with the imbalance

[broken seal]

what i'm saying is you're exaggerating/you don't understand the actual difference between advanced sawtooth and the basic use of it

[stable pilot]

@vague sigil @waxen remnant @remote ibex continue the Convo here

[broken seal]

there IS a dps increase, but it isn't by the insane margins you're suggesting

[opal pelican]

you literally didnt know what point you were arguing against please get out of this conversation man

[broken seal]

nerfing the damage of Sawtooth would help to balance both uses

[opal pelican]

im not denying it would help

but this is going back and forth

[toxic vigil]

what is your point in that case... i don't understand wtf ur talking about

[opal pelican]

agree to disagree

https://tenor.com/view/speed-ishowspeed-reaction-reactions-meme-gif-8141100727479891642

[remote ibex]

It's not unbalanced for casual use. I have over 100 hours now and can't use it well enough to justify jt

[buoyant urchin]

Can I say
Why do people say lost lace is very hard when most of the damage is bec of you running into her-
They keep running alot and she teleports to get close to you so like 😭

[broken seal]

all Sawtooth Circlet needs as a nerf is just a decrease in damage, that's it

[opal pelican]

im fighting against one dude with actual points and another dude who doesnt know what country hes in

[remote ibex]

Would make it worse balanced for 90% of people

[broken seal]

https://tenor.com/view/house-house-md-estrogen-dr-house-gregory-house-gif-8047232819517376067

[opal pelican]

house estrogen gif??

[broken seal]

it's currently the #1 blue tool in the game and all you have to do is repeatedly press jump and attack in front of an enemy to increase your needle dps by insane margins lol

[remote ibex]

Which most players can't do while also responding to enemies and dodging them

Most people can't even hit flying enemies properly

[broken seal]

that just comes with practice

[opal pelican]

with little practice you can

[toxic vigil]

just do it during staggers
still like 60% dmg more

[broken seal]

not the fault of the tool necessarily

[remote ibex]

Practice most people won't have. It's a high skill ceiling tool and that's fine

[broken seal]

even if you use it only in safe situations or for grounded enemies, the damage increase is still worthwhile

[remote ibex]

If you're good enough to use it like that then there's already nothing in the game that should be hard for you. When a godhome mode comes out and it trivialises everything then sure nerf it

[broken seal]

INCREDIBLY high skill ceiling (which i love), but the skill floor is lower than most people unaware of its uses think

[remote ibex]

I've seen its uses and tried to replicate it and it feels too hard to do good dps while dodging

If it's damage was nerfed further I'd never use it

[broken seal]

most famous clips are people using more advanced tech (animation canceling with dash attack or clawline, etc.)

if you just spend a few minutes getting used to it or watch some vids on yt you can get it pretty fast

[opal pelican]

i mean even just jump spamming with it is kinda hard to put into your gameplay

[remote ibex]

I used it for like an hour and didn't like it

[opal pelican]

this is like goldilocks and the three bears

[crimson ember]

Is talking about mods allowed?

[broken seal]

there are a few videos that teach sawtooth tech in stages of skill, from the very basic uses (still increase dps by over 40%) to the most advanced cases

[remote ibex]

And if you need to Watch a vid on YouTube to make it decent then I think it's not broken for most people

[remote ibex]

Yes afaik

[broken seal]

oh and that's completely fine, you don't HAVE to use it or enjoy using it lol

[crimson ember]

Does anyone have a link to the boss refight mod?

[broken seal]

you don't really need to, it just helps you learn when you have an example or someone explaining it. It's all possible to learn from playing the game yourself

[remote ibex]

I'm saying for newer players, nerfing the damage will make it feel extremely lackluster. You're advocating for a change that only better balances the charm for a very small fraction of players

[broken seal]

the current way it is, it's the strongest tool in the game of any color, even when just using it for pressing jump and attack together repeatedly

[remote ibex]

Volt vessel spam doesn't have higher dps?

[broken seal]

even if not everybody knows or does this, it still needs a nerf

[deft girder]

@mystic phoenix THE SCARECROW

[broken seal]

less consistent + limited charges. Ideally you use both lol

[mystic phoenix]

i tried it

it doesnt work at all for spogo btw

and too high for rdac chain

[deft girder]

oh

[mystic phoenix]

prolly not the best example

[remote ibex]

Again, most players can't press attack and jump and also dodge the boss or enemy

[mystic phoenix]

i mean training dummy

[deft girder]

damn okay

[mystic phoenix]

mb

also

bellbeast is better training dummy if we're talking about it

but its still bad tho

[whole mortar]

Circlet is just absolutely insane

[mystic phoenix]

dont use it

yea

[deft girder]

i see

[broken seal]

you don't need to do it constantly to get great benefit. You could just save it for staggers or openings and still get a bunch of extra damage

[deft girder]

my bad

[crimson ember]

I think I killed chat

[whole mortar]

I think it’s at a good point rn, high skill expression tool that can be really busted

[remote ibex]

Volt filament also gives great benefits for 0 skill or different play style

I think for most players, it's at a point where it's mid/good if you use it for a bit

[whole mortar]

Like, part of what makes it strong is routing your run around frontloading crafting kits

[broken seal]

Hey Blue!! we're talking about nerfing Circlet and how I'm proposing the damage should be lowered without removing any of the current tech or strategies it can be used in rn

[remote ibex]

Just cause it's absurdly good for high skill players doesn't mean it should be nerfed for everyone

[whole mortar]

I think a nerf could be alright, a small tweak, but i don’t think it needs it

It already has pretty big tradeoffs for its strong output

Like it’s a navigation hazard in many areas

[broken seal]

if you can shred any boss in the game by pressing attack and jump together, then yes, it should be nerfed. Should Shaman Stone (if it ever got nerfed) stay the same just because not everybody uses spells good or knows how strong it is?

[crimson ember]

I love the bola form of the volt vessels

It makes such quick work of certain boring bosses like bell ester

[remote ibex]

Shaman stone takes way way way less skill to use effectively compared to circlet

You slap it on and do 50% more damage with most spells

Circlet forces you to play differently if you want good results

[broken seal]

and yet there are people who don't know it's good. Just because there are a few people who don't use something doesn't mean that something isn't too powerful

[crimson ember]

The tool system is infinitely more balanced than the charm system imo

[remote ibex]

Yeah definitely

[broken seal]

oh yeah by a lot lol

[remote ibex]

Spells are much more integral to the game than a single tool

A better comparison would be like flukenest

[broken seal]

i understand what you're saying, but the tool still deserves yo get a small damage nerf

[exotic dome]

we don't need a nerf for circlet. they should prioritize balancing other tools that is useless for now

[remote ibex]

Very good but requires playing in a certain way to make it good

Yeah I think the game is definitely hard enough

[broken seal]

i don't think it needs to happen rn, just at some point

[remote ibex]

It already got nerfed and given tc unwillingness to nerf shaman stone strength or quickslash I find it unlikely it will

[devout dove]

what does "rapidly crafting new tools" on arc crest do?

[broken seal]

and just make it do a little bit less damage and it's perfectly fine. Rn it does 1.333x a needle hit

[remote ibex]

It just means you can craft them without being at a bench at the cost of a full bar of silk iirc

[devout dove]

oh thats nice

[broken seal]

bind + up allows you to refill your tools as if you had just sat at a bench

[remote ibex]

Still costs shards btw

[exotic cedar]

Is anyones discord tweaking like mine? Sometimes it doesn't show the channels in a server, doesn't show the roles people have or just pretty slow even though my internet is good

[worthy lintel]

Yeah same

[remote ibex]

I'm just tryna give a perspective from a more amateur player. I've beat the game 4 times and on steel soul so I think I'm above the skill level of the average person who plays this game and from my perspective, circlet is like, ok. It's a decent tool. If it got nerfed I'd consider it bad. I don't think it's unbalanced if it requires a lot of skill and time to learn to make it the best tool in the game

[hybrid flare]

ds1 glaze gotta stop

[remote ibex]

The playstyle you describe of even just jumping and attacking is too big of a tradeoff for the extra damage for me because it makes dodging different and harder for me

[restive sluice]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cm_me93sYM8

how the heck did they make this. did someone actually create that game by replacing doom sprites?

[crimson ember]

Most boring bosses in my opinion?
1 bell eater cuz it’s so boring and repetitive
2 the unravelled cuz it’s just a item check
3 Groal cuz his ai is dumb and hits you with his own body sometimes and that doesn’t make much sense

[exotic cedar]

Palestag and zango

[remote ibex]

Zango

[restive sluice]

by far that plasmium dude

[remote ibex]

Palestag

The steel soul one

[restive sluice]

Groal was actually lowkey fun to learn how to fight against

coz you could actually figure stuff out and there was like a strategy to it you know? I like it when it's like that

[remote ibex]

Ughh I still don't like groal. I find it too risky and punishing to get close to him and boring to stay away from him

[restive sluice]

I play wanderer so once I'm above him I go berserk until he flies up too high for it to be safe after which I just evade a bit

and it's really not difficult to evade all his attacks from a distance... throw in some ranged attacks every once in a while like raygun or straight pin and you're good

[remote ibex]

Yeah it's just mostly his erratic up and down movement with 2 contact damage that makes me not wanna be aggressive

[restive sluice]

yea you gotta wait for him to come up and assess the situation, if it's safe to try to go over his head rn or wait until next time

coz he ends up in different positions

[remote ibex]

Were there any bosses in hollow knight that had enemy gauntlets before them?

[restive sluice]

I think Lace 2 (at Cradle) frustrated me most so far coz it's kinda... deceptive? misleading? she's your size and also using a needle, so you expect it to be a sort of even fight, but no she can block and throw in massive sweeping attacks and it feels unfair if that makes sense

[remote ibex]

I don't think there were

I wonder how they'll handle those for pantheon type things

[remote ibex]

You can block too

And you can nuke her so I think it's fair

[restive sluice]

yea but like twice before you run out of silk, and the block lasts what 1 second?

plus if you collide you're the only one who takes damage which is some bs

[remote ibex]

Real

[crimson ember]

Fighting bell eater is just red tool spam

[remote ibex]

Thorns of agony with no freeze frames when?

[restive sluice]

for me bell eater was just a matter of patience lol

[remote ibex]

I don't really understand the intended way to fight bell eater

[devout dove]

I FINALLY BEAT SETH BRO OML I HAD TO USE 300 SHARDS WORTH OF TOOLS

[remote ibex]

Gg

[crimson ember]

Try fighting him when you have ADHD

[restive sluice]

who the heck is seth

[remote ibex]

I might need to watch some speedruns to see how they handle it but it feels like massive area denial and being forced to wait a long time for it to be safe

[severe jasper]

What does adhd have to do with a 3 minute boss fight

[remote ibex]

I imagine in the way that it feels bad having to sit there and do nothinf

[crimson ember]

His fight is the exact opposite of fast and agile

[restive sluice]

discord is tweaking rn by the way, you can't post images

[severe jasper]

Yeah but like

[crimson ember]

Sitting there like sonic
tapping my foot

[severe jasper]

Is it really bad enough for adhd to have any affect on it

[devout dove]

time to fight nyleth!!

[severe jasper]

Again, it only takes a few minutes.

[devout dove]

oh my GOD that scared me

[odd hull]

lmao

[crimson ember]

There’s a difference between slow and challenging and slow and zero challenge

[stable pilot]

Discord is broken

Just warning

[severe jasper]

Wtv

Adhd is different for everyone anyways

[rotund gate]

what

[exotic cedar]

Discord tweaking

[devout dove]

servers are goin insane

[rotund gate]

are the servitors named after specific weavers or no

[left tiger]

pilby is the worst npc in Silksong
in my
whole hearted
opinion
I always try to kill him as fast as possible in my runs

And
I skip his funeral

[exotic cedar]

W

[fiery burrow]

Skull Tyrant never shows up for me before he leaves ngl

[devout dove]

is it a skill issue if im lowkey getting stuck at nyleth

[left tiger]

Bell Eater is a Parallel and Contrast to the Bell Beast fight.

The Bell Beast fight is a quick, mighty battle.
Bell Eater is a Dreadful, aching, Battle.
The opportunities to damage the boss are few unlike the bell beast fight.
The Dark Bellways contrast the Bright Bellways.
The Boss itself contrasts the Bell Beast, being a disgusting, dark centipede, while bell beast is just cute.

[quiet adder]

Might just take a few tries

[serene mountain]

I just beat groal, idk what all the hate is about

Cool boss, there's only one area where the runback is tough

But with wreath of purity the runback is fine

Still took me about 5 tries tho

[devout dove]

its been like. 15

[quiet adder]

Nice, honestly the fight isn’t hard but I disliked the run back, except the hidden bench to get back quicker

[left tiger]

Groal is the definition of good boss design and anyone who disagreed with this has not played good games or does not know how bossfights work in videogames

Groal is one of the best bosses in all of gaming in my opinion. Cut Through does him justice, along with the gauntlet

[fiery burrow]

He has like 3 attacks bro 🥀

[left tiger]

He also calls back to the original Hollow Knight in a fantastic way through his vengeful spirit consumed from the Shaman Cousin.

[tight viper]

Didn’t know Groal had an account

[fiery burrow]

I don't think he's awful but he's pretty mediocre and not even in the top 10 bosses of Silksong and definitely not one of the best bosses in all of gaming

[exotic dome]

groal is not even top 20

[vivid belfry]

groal is exceptional in how perfectly medicore he is

like he should be the face of a generic silksong boss

[atomic sparrow]

groal is

[exotic dome]

most mediocre game boss ever

[devout dove]

does. anyone have tips for the non-ground phase of nyleth

[vivid belfry]

well he's mediocre by silksong standards, I do still enjoy him he's just in the middle quality wise

[fiery burrow]

clawline clawline clawline

[atomic sparrow]

great

[devout dove]

just clawline spam?

[slender juniper]

Discord is back❤️

Praise the pale king

[exotic dome]

dont attack during her spit attack

just dodge

[fiery burrow]

Well not spam exactly but its the bread and butter for aerial combat

[indigo carbon]

I got silksong 2 days ago and I just beat sister splinter, is that good?

I have 7 hours

[devout dove]

oh i finally got nyleth

[fiery burrow]

Curveclaw melts her in terms of red tools in terms of spells I use gossamer storm or cross stitch but apparently rune rage is absolutely crazy on Nyleth

[brazen path]

what are the chances of there being a 3rd hollow knight game

[vivid belfry]

I think TC said that if they were going to return to the world, it wouldn't be in the same form as the two existing games

[slender juniper]

Depends are you speedruning

[opaque sigil]

they were talking about a game not in the same setting when they said that

[vivid belfry]

I see

[indigo carbon]

No

[high sparrow]

Groal is a FATASS

[opaque sigil]

discord won't let me send the edge excerpt so you're just gonna have to take my word for it

[umbral ether]

embeds are broken i think currently

[simple mulch]

Will silksong ever get a godhome

[vivid belfry]

probably

[vale whale]

hey guys

[atomic sparrow]

I doubt it will be godhome godhome, but a godhome equivalent probably

[vale whale]

i need help pls pls

[atomic sparrow]

with?

[vale whale]

i wanna start playing horror games

but idk where to start

im a huge wimp

end your silksong discussion in the silksong discussion channel and help me now

[left tiger]

And a great boss for the area that parallels deepnest.

[high sparrow]

Deepnest?

[vivid belfry]

Deepnest is a very player-hostile area in HK, bilewater is the same for silksong

[atomic sparrow]

can't help you there because me too buddy

[vivid belfry]

play slay the princess

[left tiger]

The thing about bosses like Groal, is you have to appreciate the battle. You need to stop treating it like a "bossfight" just for a second, and immerse yourself into the arena.
Just, so many players miss the fact that groal has vengeful spirit and 90% of the time it's because they're frantically trying to dodge it but when I go into a bossfight, I always try to respect the product. Sure, this game has it's faults, but Groal the Great is certainly not one of them.
Many players don't realise they are in Bilehaven until after defeating Groal, but as the Capital of bilewater it marks enemy territory, we can see this on the way entering bilehaven.

[vivid belfry]

what the fuck are you talking about

[left tiger]

And the infamous "approaching bossfight" theme never gets old.
Everything that leads up to this battle, is perfect.

[onyx python]

the good thing is that they are an excuse for me to skip the battle by using architect crest

https://tenor.com/view/thragg-invincible-punch-omni-man-strong-gif-7980804001733610778

[left tiger]

well there's absolutely nothing wrong with that.

[light swan]

i didnt and i stil hated/hate groal

[midnight jasper]

DISCORD IS BACK

[exotic cedar]

There is no limit to the glaze

[vale whale]

its an 18 that scares me

please wsit 10 days

[vivid belfry]

what does that mean

[vale whale]

even then i think i will not touch 18s until i am a 40 year old single depressed chud with a misersble job

[vale whale]

18 rated games i dont play them the only one ive ever played was like mgs

and mgs is super light

[left tiger]

Another really well done bossfight in this game for me has to be The Unravelled.
Already, this is The Collector parallel, with the Surgeons Key being required to meet the boss.
As in Hollow Knight, the Love Key was required to meet the Collector in The Tower of Love.

The Tower of Love and White Ward are interesting areas in their respective games.
The Tower in the first game was symbolic of The Collectors Lust and Obsession for Grubs, as seen in his Vitruvian Grubberfly piece.
It gave us an answer to why grubs were trapped in jars.
White Ward is Pharlooms Medical Facility of the Citadel, it being in the Citadel suggests Health Care was Rich and Superior.
Throughout, the references to the Surgeon , the Conductor, foreshadow the Unravelled. Much like the grubs foreshadowing the Collector.
And once you see that Conductor corpse burrow in the background, you know what you're in for.

[vale whale]

i need to preserve my young (18 in less than 2 weeks btw) mind

[vivid belfry]

it's a horror game

you're gonna get blood and gore

[vale whale]

oh and the silent hills but i was so scared

i was scared out of my mind that shit was horrific

sh4 killed me

i had actual nightmares

[vivid belfry]

I really should play silent hill

at least the first 2

[vale whale]

poppy playtime 1 doesnt have blood or gore

i was really scared of that boy huggy

huggy is a scary lad

i just dont like getting chased tbf

[vale whale]

at least play 2

1 and 3 are connected

4 is very loosely connected to 1 and 3

2 is just fucking goated

[remote ibex]

Bell beast is not quick at all she disappears for multiple seconds at a time unlike most bosses in the game. The phase transition is a lot of downtime you can't do anything either. It's definitely not a quick or fast paced fight

[vale whale]

one of the best stories in gaming and best character writing

[left tiger]

When compared to bell eater
It is a fast paced fight.
Not to mention you can easily burst her down, skip the second phase where as, that's a problem with bell eater due to the bosses design.

[remote ibex]

You can kill bell eater before it can do 3 attacks if you just play aggressive. Skipping the second phase of Bell beast is not intended for a first or second or third playthrough and requires a very specific amount of damage to be dealt on certain moves

[left tiger]

Well same can be said for bell eater. Not intended to just be obliterated on a first encounter.

[graceful oyster]

Oh we talking about warframe???

[orchid spruce]

peam

nice pfp

[remote ibex]

Yeah so neither are intended to die extremely quickly but both can die extremely quickly when speedrunning. Both are slow

[left tiger]

bell beast is still a faster fight.

[remote ibex]

Uh ok sure if you say so

[stoic sigil]

HUMBLE LEAKS NEW TEAM CHERRY GAME???

[remote ibex]

Hornet has a son?????

[crystal ledge]

no way

[stoic sigil]

Someone call mossbag

[orchid spruce]

Silksons

[stoic sigil]

I need a full analysis

[left tiger]

Compare average completion times of both bosses on first play through. You'll see

[limber dagger]

wtf are this discussions in this chat

[remote ibex]

I cant. Also early game fights are always intended to be shorter than later game fights. This goes for almost every game with bosses

[limber dagger]

am i ai-generated

[crystal ledge]

idk

[crystal ledge]

yes

[left tiger]

Exactly

[remote ibex]

Yeah so your comparison between them doesn't seem intentional. It just seems like they made bell eater slow and boring

[left tiger]

Everything from the bosses name to how it fundamentally functions in it's attacks and phase transitions, to its arena is a direct contrast to the bell beast.
I can go into every single contrast this boss has to bell beast if you want.
It's all intentional.

[remote ibex]

Bell eater being slow and Bell beast being fast sure ain't one of them

[left tiger]

But it's not just
slow
fast
it's a bit more complex than that.
When taking into account speed of a fight
You have to look at multiple things
attack speed, downtime, invincibility frames etc.

[remote ibex]

Even if there's a lot of like contrast and stuff, it should not be valued more heavily than making a good and fun boss fight

[left tiger]

I think bell eater is a well designed boss.

It does it's job perfectly as the opening Act 3 fight.

[remote ibex]

Yeah so we disagree that's all

[limber dagger]

Bell eater has 800hp, let's count 1 hit as 15hp for average player has that enough lvl of needle

[left tiger]

Except
You don't have a lot to add to your points. Your stance from what I gather is you just don't like the fight

[limber dagger]

soooo that is 54 hits to a boss

bell beast has 150hp -> -5hp per hit

[remote ibex]

I think it's badly designed due to it being very hard to attack the boss during specific attacks. It forces you to do a lot of waiting where there's no way to do damage safely and I think that's unfun

[limber dagger]

30 hits to defeat bell beast

[remote ibex]

The only way I've seen even speedrunners able to attack the boss consistently is to damage tank or throw a billion tools from a distance

The boss isn't threatening you during these attacks either. It's just dodge the bombs and don't stand right next to the head

[orchid spruce]

Bell Eater is intentionally ass to contrast to Bell Beast being a good boss

[left tiger]

Ah. I see.
You see this right here is something a good bossfight takes advantage of very well.

Attack Opportunity.
It's not the boss that's the problem my friend... It is you. That is not at all an insult but what I am trying to say is you need to take advantage of the boss as much as it does you.

[remote ibex]

Real and true

[strange knot]

?

[left tiger]

Both are equally as good in my opinion

[remote ibex]

So do what speedrunners do which is damage tank and spam tools

[orchid spruce]

It's all intentional and reflects Team Cherry's brilliant writing

[strange knot]

Where those fucking dash attack iframes?

Or just weird hitboxes

[remote ibex]

There's no way the hitbox could've have overlapped there you were right in the middle

Unless they made a player sized tunnel in her hitbox for you to go through

[strange knot]

If those are iframes than wtf

[remote ibex]

I don't think IFrames last nearly that long either so idk

[left tiger]

No, rather, heal when you need to goddamn heal and attack when you see an open window. Patience isn't just asked for by this game, it is needed. The fight gives enough opportunity to attack the boss as much as the boss has opportunity to attack you.
It's balanced.

[remote ibex]

Could be mod weirdness somehow

[strange knot]

The only mod I had installed is debug, and I didn’t have my cheats enabled

[remote ibex]

The open window is right when they're done attacking. You're forced to sit there and stare at the boss, not even dodging while it does it's attack.

[orchid spruce]

What's next? Forebrothers are secretly as good as Karmelita?

[remote ibex]

Accidental hotkey? I really have no explanation for a non mod reason

[orchid spruce]

[left tiger]

The open window is also right as their hitbox comes into the scene.

[strange knot]

I got hit right after that in the same fight

[remote ibex]

Yeah let's you get two hits off before bombs are shot in your face. And you have to back off. Very fun engaging combat

If you can send me a video of you attacking the boss the whole time and not having to just sit there and watch I'll believe you

[orchid spruce]

Does silkspear give iframes

[strange knot]

No

I should try recreating that clip

[orchid spruce]

[remote ibex]

You see fighting karmelita makes forebrothers good cause it makes you realise it was worth fighting them to get to act 3

Brilliant design team cherry

[worldly umbra]

rate the map

[left tiger]

The open window is also just for as long as the hitbox is there, like,
It's your fault if you're not attacking the boss. And that's okay, nothing wrong with that, but you can't complain that it's not engaging when you are not

[orchid spruce]

So trueee

[severe steeple]

no groal / 10

[kind tide]

Erm, FELLAS?

[remote ibex]

I think only sharpdart and parry after parrying do

[worldly umbra]

this guy
what

[remote ibex]

As I said, show me a video of someone attacking the boss while it's attacking every time without getting hit

You claim you can do it so prove that you can

[severe steeple]

silkspear rework twhen

[kind tide]

https://tenor.com/view/cat-bothered-dehydrated-suffering-cat-meme-gif-27693131

[fresh oracle]

is this healthy

[remote ibex]

There's so many cats

[orchid spruce]

Your maps would benefit massively from playing MIO, or just looking up its map if you never intend to play it

[worldly umbra]

im doing secret ending rn

[strange knot]

NOO DONT REWORK MY GOAT

[orchid spruce]

Oh, nice

[worldly umbra]

i just have a different vision

[remote ibex]

Where's the 10 hour elevator ride from blighttown to firelink shrine. Terrible world design 1/10

[severe steeple]

rework it!!!

[remote ibex]

Make silkspear pull you forward and have I frames and pull you forward as it goes forward and name it sharpdart

Idk what makes good map design good rly

[orchid spruce]

the connectivity in this one is good now

[severe steeple]

sharpdart is just cooler silkspear

[remote ibex]

Real and true

[severe steeple]

give silkspear a spike hitbox at the tip of its attack which does more damage

[broken seal]

okay but it DOESN'T take a lot of skill and time to learn or make it the best in the game 😭

[remote ibex]

Then why ain't it used by every person I ever see play the game once they get it and try it like cmon

[broken seal]

Because most people don't know the damage and they're already too predisposed to other options to try new things out

[remote ibex]

There's so many easier things to use that are also good. Thread storm volt filament does absurd damage and you just press one button whenever there's an oppening

[broken seal]

it's not because it's hard, it's because they don't bother to use it enough to realize it

[remote ibex]

I used it for an hour and didn't benefit enough. If you can't learn to use it within an hour I'd say it's hard to learn

[broken seal]

i don't mean to be rude but that sounds like a you thing then 😭

[remote ibex]

It's a rly unnatural way to do combat so it's hard to learn

[severe steeple]

knight easy

hornet hard

[broken seal]

instead of standing still and attacking, you do little hops while attacking, which many people do naturally

[remote ibex]

Like if you gotta know that it can be used like that and then relearn how to approach every encounter, it might be a little hard to learn

[broken seal]

it's usually best to wait until double jump before using circlet if you're really struggling

[brisk lark]

Bilewater music lowk fire

[severe steeple]

it is

[remote ibex]

You have to activate cloak too and like a large portion of attacks in the game are dodged by jumping

[severe steeple]

highkey fire

[remote ibex]

When having to jump quickly to react to stuff, you don't wanna be stuck floating and not ready to instantly jump

[broken seal]

you have clawline by the time you get circlet, and even without using it circlet while attacking constantly you still get tons of extra damage

even if you save it for staggers the extra damage makes it worth it

[remote ibex]

It really ain't compared to just a thread storm with volt filament which can also easily be used outside of staggers

And takes little skill other than finding an opening

Circlet you need to find the openings and actual pull it off

[broken seal]

but "pulling it off" is just pressing jump and attack together repeatedly????

[remote ibex]

And be a lot closer and at the right vertical height

[broken seal]

sure it's "harder" than pressing the single button for a silk skill but that doesn't make it difficult

[remote ibex]

Half the people who play this game can't calculate a 30 degree pogo angle, yes it's harder

[exotic cedar]

Circlet is not that hard

[broken seal]

that's not the fault of the tool??

[exotic cedar]

https://tenor.com/view/ss-silksong-hollow-knight-hk-beast-gif-7167947808925894620

[remote ibex]

No it's not that hard but it's harder than pressing a button or doing nothing like other tools require

[exotic cedar]

This doesn't seem hard

[broken seal]

if people are dumb fucks then people are dumb fucks like idk what you want me to say 😭

[remote ibex]

What?

How am I blaming the tool

[slim thorn]

did cogwork dancers do 1 or 2 masks? been a while since i played

[broken seal]

2

[severe steeple]

circlet is niche and niche is cringe

[slim thorn]

ok. so i need fragile mask then

[remote ibex]

I'm saying it takes skill to use effectively rather than 0 skill

[broken seal]

slightly more effort for more reward than every other tool

[remote ibex]

Yeah that sounds fair to me since it's more effort and skill than every other tool

[broken seal]

it's the #1 tool in the game how is it niche 💔

[remote ibex]

#1 tool
Used by 10% of people

[slim thorn]

is the last version still nerfed from what the peak version was?

[opaque sigil]

10% is generous

[broken seal]

but it's A LOT more reward for BARELY ANY more effort/skill 😭

[orchid spruce]

we are calling players dumb fucks to defend bell eater now, what a new low

[broken seal]

? what

[remote ibex]

Wow, volt filament is more reward for NO effort or skill. I think it's balanced

[severe steeple]

Its only good if youre cheesing with it, and its not that good for regular playing thus its not really fun to use

[broken seal]

sawtooth gives better reward

[severe steeple]

well its alright

[remote ibex]

Thats why I said more instead of a lot more

[broken seal]

wdym cheesing?? 😭

[remote ibex]

I'm not tryna say filament is better it definitely isn't

[broken seal]

true filament is really good tho

[remote ibex]

I'm saying that there are drawbacks to its extreme benefits that other tools don't have

[severe steeple]

facetanking a boss playstyle

[slim thorn]

idk what yall talking about but these tools cool

[severe steeple]

now you dont need to facetank but it is often used for that

[broken seal]

you don't even have to do that + that's not really cheese

[broken seal]

it often isn't lmao

high level gameplay of circlet is usually hitless/near hitless

[severe steeple]

any clip of "look how good this tool is" I see is just constantly being next to the boss and spamming attack and jump

[lavish apex]

this makes dodging things harder

[remote ibex]

Ehhhh if you're not responding to any of the bosses moves at all like that karmelita gif I'd say at that point it's cheese. Using it at all obviously isn't cheese thougj

[severe steeple]

I used circlet for gms and I did not have fun

[slim thorn]

oh but its still worthless to heal

[severe steeple]

gms died in like 10 seconds

[broken seal]

because it's able to do THAT well by only jumping and attacking? 😭

[slim thorn]

still, more than an infinite times more that i can get hit

[severe steeple]

all im saying is that its niche in the sense that it being good relies on a playstyle thats mostly for flashy clips of repeat playthroughs

its alright otherwise still useable

[broken seal]

as of rn sawtooth does 1.33x pale needle damage (at max tool upgrade) without needing a single needle upgrade

and you can use it at the same time as attacking

[severe steeple]

yeah I dont think it really needs to be changed

theres other tools that actually need changes

[broken seal]

for right now, no

but before godhome comes around it needs a small damage nerf

[remote ibex]

I think if it becomes like a meta thing then sure

Otherwise let silly players who use it for a bit of extra damage sometimes use it without it being nerfed for the top 5% of players

[broken seal]

i LOVE sawtooth circlet and it's genuinely the coolest and most fun tool if you take a bit of time to learn how to use it, but it's ability to trivialize almost every fight in the game is a bit too crazy

[severe steeple]

yeah probabably, I dont want godhome meta to be killing bosses as fast a possible

[broken seal]

it already kinda is, a bunch of people just don't know about it (somehow lol)

[remote ibex]

Just make an absolute lost lace and absolute gms and make them take 10% of circlet damage gg

[slim thorn]

there should be more metas instead,
im guessing you are refereing to speedkill/speedrun metas?

[remote ibex]

I'm referring to like meta pantheon builds like how HK had strength quickslash shaman stone

[remote ibex]

Is circlet good against lost lace I can't remember seeing it used

I can't imagine it's as a good as it is for gms

[teal ridge]

i will achieve 30 hour achievement soon. if i manage to beat that stupid sprintmaster

[severe steeple]

punch him

[slim thorn]

or full summons, or full heals, or full spells

wait there isnt a full narts meta isnt it? what charms can make up for 11 notches and focus on the narts?

[tight meadow]

guys you believe in may 23rd right

[teal ridge]

my right click doesnt works well. and i put dash in right click

[severe steeple]

may 22nd gng

[slim thorn]

what is that

[remote ibex]

I hope there's like a harder path of pain type thing in the updates/dlcs. The difficulty of the platforming challenges in silksong especially with the massively broadened platforming Moveset was disappointing

[wild holly]

just beat silksong, how can i see my completion percentage? do i have to do act3?

[teal ridge]

so hornet has a stroke when she tries to run

[remote ibex]

Yeah

[wild holly]

guh

[remote ibex]

There's an item early on in act 3

[wild holly]

now that i have beaten act 1/2 i dont really care about searching up guides atp

[severe steeple]

somet things are quite hidden though but main progression not so much

[remote ibex]

Full summons was never meta it was just silly. It's not good at all. Full narts is also not meta there's only nail masters glory which is one slot and fury which is really hard to use outside of pantheon speedruns

Then all your other charms aren't helping with narts

[orchid spruce]

act 3 reqs are astrocious

[rancid stag]

helo

oh this is sk disc

[orchid spruce]

ello

[remote ibex]

Hihi

[severe steeple]

act 3 is weird yeah

[tight meadow]

SoS you gotta trust me man

[slim thorn]

umm, are they usually, like, 4?

[slender juniper]

Collect 12 mid bells below the sea of mid

[tight meadow]

Imo just do everything

[severe steeple]

I can see 6

[orchid spruce]

[tight meadow]

@slender juniper

[slender juniper]

Doing double bosses with reaper

[tight meadow]

it's reaper

[slender juniper]

Sounds like torture

[tight meadow]

lol

[slim thorn]

what do you mean double bosses

[severe steeple]

guy whos never touched reaper

[slender juniper]

Oh, you killed them when they did the attack

[remote ibex]

I hate the bell quest just let me grab the bells out of the walls game I can see them

[slender juniper]

Who's gonna tell them

[slim thorn]

im in no hurry for more silk to like use wanderer or something, i need to play safe, i only have a single hit on the whole fight and the secondis death

[slender juniper]

Huh

[remote ibex]

I wonder what the intentional way to do some of the kill enemy fetch quests is

[severe steeple]

I hope they bring some requested reworks with the dlc

[deft girder]

does he know?

[remote ibex]

Cause it gives you them pretty late

[slim thorn]

wait does the fire side attack modded tool of flame need to wait for my main attack cooldown or not? if so then maybe i can get some more damage from wanderer actually

[lavish apex]

if they were in fixed locations it would better

[remote ibex]

Usually after you've cleared the area

[remote ibex]

Theyre in fixed locations it's just an rng chance for it to appear and be the correct colour iirc

[slender juniper]

What is that horrendous healthbar mod

[deft girder]

https://tenor.com/view/does-he-know-paul-dano-riddler-somarra-gif-835799788689308789

[lavish apex]

yeah i mean without the rng involved

[remote ibex]

Yeah that'd be knife

[severe steeple]

reaper is such an easy crest to use that it doesnt make the bosses any harder

[slim thorn]

silken impact, but mastermode breaks the accuracy of needle damage
i prefer it tho, that way i cant tell exactly when boss dies, just like vanilla

[slender juniper]

Can't wait to collect 15 rng spawned nautilus shells in the sea of mid

[remote ibex]

Reaper is the bestest crest ever

[slender juniper]

It Litteraly does lmao, it gives you disantvantages

[deft girder]

each boss takes between 30% to 50% longer because your dps is that low

[slender juniper]

-20% less DPS -10% silk gain

[remote ibex]

Ok idk about that

It's 23% less attack speed

[exotic dome]

interesting choice of a health bar mod

[slender juniper]

all that just 20% extra range

When longclaw litteraly gives you way more

And you don't have to sacrifice anything

[remote ibex]

The pogo is cool though think about it

[severe steeple]

reaper is more difficult if you bruteforce try to use it like its wanderers. Its also inacurate to take max dps as "it takes this much longer" since in many situations you can get just as many safe hits in as with other crests

[slim thorn]

huh, dps and silk gain are affected differently?

[slender juniper]

No

[deft girder]

it was a slight exaggeration but it is lower than just the attack speed because you take advantage of knockdowns and openings less

[remote ibex]

And the fanart for hornet with it is cool therefore 10/10 crest

[slim thorn]

it does?
but i dont have it tho

[broken seal]

slower attack speed = less hitting enemy = less silk gain

[slender juniper]

The reaper crest does not do any more damage per slash

[slim thorn]

i know but thought it would be the same % reduction to both or something

[slender juniper]

So it's DPS is -20% lower than hunter

Which is a lot

[remote ibex]

It's like average of two hits after binding gives you enough silk balls to get one extra silk so the silk gen isn't bad rly

[severe steeple]

wanderers is kinda brainless, I dont like using it for that reason, atleast it has 1 less red tool so its still pretty balanced

[slim thorn]

i know
wait letme check if i got some reaper mod to make sure i dont have extra damage

[remote ibex]

Other crests also have special features that make them worthwhile while the crit feature feels cool but does barely anyhting

[slender juniper]

It is the defensive crest that punishes you for getting hit

[deft girder]

boss knockdown phases is the easiest counterpoint here but also having the longer startup and not any more range, and the underhand second attack which can cause you to miss all contribute to having less openings

[slender juniper]

The bind is an avarage of 1-2 silk after binding which makes it's silk gen same as hunter or very slightly higher,also if you bind and get hit,say goodbye to your orbs

[rocky jolt]

hehr. Sick seven

[remote ibex]

Counterpoint uhhhhh its early or something and the pogo is way easier than hunter

[slender juniper]

But hunter pogo is peak

[odd hull]

the funny number

[remote ibex]

Yeah but what if you suck

[slender juniper]

Skill issue get used to it

[odd hull]

not that one

[remote ibex]

Massive frown

[deft girder]

wanderer is right there and almost equally as early

[rocky jolt]

hehr. Sick nin

[slim thorn]

i do but i think i disabled everything but the flag that says mod enabled

[remote ibex]

Almost being the key thing :3

[exotic dome]

we are conductor ballador we carry the song

[severe steeple]

it has more range even if not as much as it might seem its still more range in all attacks except the charged. the underhand attack miss is such a niche thing and people have it happen once and then thats all they remember but I dont remember the last time thats ever happened to me

[deft girder]

there's like one boss in between bro

[remote ibex]

Peak (it's not even good for that boss)

[slender juniper]

Wanderer is deadbrain placebo easy mode

[slim thorn]

if i cant heal is it worth to bind to be able to cast more spells or nah?

[deft girder]

that small range increase is not enough to justify it being the slowest crest lol

[slender juniper]

Yes but that requires not getting hit

[deft girder]

slowest nailbased crest**

[remote ibex]

Wanderer still has higher dps at max evolves and has two red tool slots and has much better vertical attacks for flying enemies so I value you them like equally unless I'm face tanking

[slender juniper]

And if you're doing hitless you get more silk out of not healing

[opaque sigil]

no because the bind effect is ass

[lavish apex]

the attack speed is more than enough to justify using it

[slim thorn]

so i guess im going to try and bind anyways then

[lavish apex]

that's its gimmick

[atomic dagger]

Karmelita low key might be the only boss in SK that feels unfair

[slim thorn]

I cannot get hit annyways

[lavish apex]

it's quick slash lite

[remote ibex]

Yeah

[slender juniper]

Do you not see the placebo

[deft girder]

the speed is the reason to use wanderers but beast is the chad version of that thing

[orchid spruce]

[slender juniper]

Wanderer range is longer than hunter

[lavish apex]

that you can get way earlier

[slim thorn]

oh ok

[severe steeple]

dont undermine the bonuses you get though, 2 red tools and silk farming with bind. I agree its not a good boss crest but for regular play I think its perfectly fine

[deft girder]

huh

[slim thorn]

like, laterally

[remote ibex]

If it had an ability as strong as shaman or hunter or something it'd be so much better than every other crest by a mile

[slender juniper]

Silk farming so good I'd get more silk than just playing hunter

[lavish apex]

hunter should be a bit bigger by default tbh

[slim thorn]

distance based
not like hitbox surface or covering or frames it lasts for

[slender juniper]

And ends on getting hit

[remote ibex]

That's only horizontal. It has shorter and thinner when going vertical

[lavish apex]

like at least enough to match the visual

[atomic dagger]

Sometimes her attacks actually feel uncounterable when she throws 2 of her blades in a row and then goes into her spike ball into the air and hits you before you hit the ground while already dodging the previous attack

[slender juniper]

The area is around the same

[orchid spruce]

[remote ibex]

Can I get a screenshot

[severe steeple]

I might be biased cuz the silk gen of reapers carried my first coral tower attempt

[atomic dagger]

I am convinced depending on her positioning that it is unavoidable to get hit in that senario

[slender juniper]

So basically wanderer is free facetanker easy mode

[opaque sigil]

practically wanderer and hunter just have basically the same hitboxes it's just that the game lies to you about wanderer

[slender juniper]

I already sent them

[deft girder]

two reds is on almost every crest and you silk farm better by just equipping another crest with a higher attack speed tho

and every crest is fine for regular play, that doesn't make it budge from the bottom of the barrel

[slender juniper]

It didn't,you were placebod into the thinking it did

[remote ibex]

Of the vertical attack? Where?

[orchid spruce]

all untrue and karmelita is the best silksong boss by a large margin

[slender juniper]

Welcome to silksong

[remote ibex]

Nine sols is unfair?

[atomic dagger]

I have still yet to play that game

[orchid spruce]

it's like you eat so much shit that when you get served a 5-star michilin meal and started vomitting

[severe steeple]

oh well it seriously did though, I first tried to tower because I used all the small enemies to have permanent max silk. Yes I could have played boring face tank mode but that would have gotten me killed

[slender juniper]

This hitboxes are litteraly on screen

[remote ibex]

I didn't rly find anything unfair in ninesols when I played other than maybe some minibosses

[atomic sparrow]

Peak Sols 🥹

[atomic dagger]

I don't think silksong is unfair at all but I feel like certain attack combos from Karmellita do

[odd hull]

lmao

[remote ibex]

Um. So you know what vertical is right?

[slender juniper]

What if I tell you reaper with bind effect has the same silk gen as hunter

[slender juniper]

..whar

[lavish apex]

karmelita is the most fair hard boss in the game

[slender juniper]

It's on screen

[deft girder]

simply dodge

[severe steeple]

then youd be lying because it doesnt apply to the scenario I just told you

[lavish apex]

those are horizontal my guy

[orchid spruce]

the hitboxes are for the player's benefit, but you already kinda have something against the game so

[remote ibex]

Vertical. As in not horizontal. As in you slash vertical. As in up. As in vertical and not horizontal

[slim thorn]

wait what if im hitless but have flew, does binding let me get more silk for my silk skills? or still better to just use them without healing?

[orchid spruce]

big hitbox = you can parry easier

[slender juniper]

You mean upslash?yes that one is shorter

[orchid spruce]

it's not that hard to make the hitbox match perfectly

[remote ibex]

Wow so like what I said already,,,

[left tiger]

This goes for most of the bosses in silksong including karmelita, they are programmed to try not do the same attack twice in a row. This leads to "unfair" combos when in reality it is actually fair in the code technically.

[slender juniper]

You didn't

[orchid spruce]

they had to balance the visual match and it being big enough for your benefit

[slender juniper]

Vertical length of slash≠upslash

[remote ibex]

Son

[slender juniper]

Aunt

[remote ibex]

When going vertical does not mean the vertical size of the side slash hitbox

[slim thorn]

but can they do so?

[deft girder]

oh god wanderer is gonna put hunter out of business

[atomic sparrow]

nah hunters fine

[remote ibex]

Hunter still has enough things going for it to be fine

[left tiger]

Yeah lace 2 is one of the bosses that isn't fair coded technically

[slender juniper]

Wdym permanent max silk...huh?

[slim thorn]

what about the frames they last?

[deft girder]

(/j hunter i frames are cool as hell)

[remote ibex]

That means you attack faster wdym

[atomic sparrow]

I don't think any crest is weak per say right now except for reaper

[remote ibex]

Yeah reaper is weaker than base hunter imo which is rly bad

[slim thorn]

like how many frames the hitbox lingers, idc about dps

[slender juniper]

TC should hire someone to balance their games

[left tiger]

Well
Karmelita can do her spin attack twice in a row
Same with Second Sentinels upper spin.
But these 2 bosses have the code that encourages them to not do this.

[slender juniper]

Unbreakable strength

[remote ibex]

I think making it do like 30% more damage or just having 2x silk generation genuinely wouldn't make it amazing or anything it'd just make it good

[remote ibex]

Its less

[slender juniper]

30% is too much

[orchid spruce]

why did they remove the damage difference between crests, more balancing dimensionality

[slender juniper]

That'd make it's DPS higher than hunter

[deft girder]

genuinely they should just make reaper slashes thicker and increase the length

make every attack have the pogo hitbox in another direction, then we can say it's the gauntlet killer

[severe steeple]

I almost allways had a bind because I binded during sections where they spawned many small enemies like the fish or jellyfish and the easy moveset of reapers allowed me to pogo easily on the flying and big enemies as a bonus

[remote ibex]

You're already doing about 30% less dps and silk generation

[slim thorn]

what about cogwork dancers, they did the go offscreen and slash a lot through lines twice in a row to me

[remote ibex]

30% just makes the dps same as unevolved hunter

[left tiger]

I agree

[remote ibex]

And gives it better silk gen only when using the bind and not getting hit

[slim thorn]

wanderer lasts less? do you may know the numbers?

[remote ibex]

They're on the wiki

[left tiger]

I think Architect is better than Reaper combat wise.

[slender juniper]

-20% less DPS, you gotta account in range ,if it had the more range as unevolved hunter and did the same DPS that's a free upgrade

[remote ibex]

You can't attack until the animation is over so wanderer makes it last less so you can attack sooner

[slender juniper]

So you have to make it +15% damage for balance

[left tiger]

And you know
Shaman crest actually has value

[slim thorn]

yeah but attack speed is different so maybe where you can get an extra hit with hunter you miss with reaper or something
its not easy to measure everything

[slender juniper]

Also if it had good DPS and good silk gen that'd be just we're balancing it not turning it into the crest of Jesus

Sybau

[remote ibex]

20% attack speed decrease means hunter has 25% attack speed higher. Decreasing percents doesn't equal the same for boost. Like if reaper was 50% it would make hunter 100% faster not 50%

[slim thorn]

i just wanna it make 1 silk orb on every hit, i think i would be happy with that, sounds fun

[remote ibex]

Either not both at once

[severe steeple]

sea buoy sos reference

[remote ibex]

30% damage or double silk gen

[deft girder]

honestly this is the only real usecase for reaper, but even the role of a zoner is done better by other crests (and sawtooth even without any tech, funnily enough)

[left tiger]

All this crest talk is getting me hyped up for the new Alchemist crest dropping in Sea of Sorrow

[slender juniper]

You can't make it 30% bruh that's better DPS than hunter

[remote ibex]

It's the same dps

[slender juniper]

Reaper DPS:40
Hunter:50
40×1,3=52

[remote ibex]

Reaper is 23% slower not 20%

[deft girder]

because the kill people weapon is only good if you kill people with it?

[slender juniper]

If it was 1,15 that'd be 46 , which is perfect for balancing

[slim thorn]

like the fun or cool factor

[vale whale]

I LOVE MY SHELDON COOPER BUILD

[remote ibex]

They're almost the exact same with a 30% boost

[severe steeple]

I mean its definetely not one of the stronges but ease of use is the main seller. Even now when im using all crests regularily its still one of the easiest for me to use. I would at most slightly buff it

[slender juniper]

Sis I just gave you the numbers

[vale whale]

bro popped poison mist and just turned tail btw

[slender juniper]

[remote ibex]

And I JUST told you the number you used is wrong. Read again

[slender juniper]

Except it's litteraly not

[deft girder]

no, that's the main thing i was talking about earlier

[slender juniper]

[remote ibex]

Reaper is 23% slower, check the wiki

[deft girder]

!

[slender juniper]

Yes that means -23% DPS

[remote ibex]

Yes and a 30% damage boost puts it on par with hunter because that's how percents work

[severe steeple]

*if you are a constantly attacking at max speed and every enemy in the game allows you to get max speed attacks in at all times

[lucid trout]

Sk help kinda dead so any tips for signis and gron act 3

[slender juniper]

Except it'd be higher

[void moat]

kill the minions first

[lucid trout]

Ok

[remote ibex]

Awesome! Show the math

[lucid trout]

Cant you send them into the lava?

[left tiger]

As the Underworks boss, I honestly wish Phantom had more foreshadowing besides "the one whom control the steam and mist"
I mean, for those who went through the last judge route into Act 2 and experienced Underworks, some Phantom references would have been cool.
Because on my first play through i found phantom very late. Too late honestly. To make any use of the skill.

[void moat]

and target whichever brother is tougher for you

[remote ibex]

Last I checked 40 is not 77% of 50

[lucid trout]

Ok

[deft girder]

honestly if you struggle with any of the pogoes other than beast and hunter, you're missing some of the base mechanical skill silksong expects from you

[opaque sigil]

Thread storm mulches them if you can get both of them

[lucid trout]

Okokok

Ok gron is way harder

[remote ibex]

It's 38.5x1.3 which is 50.05 thats basically the exact same as hunter

[lucid trout]

Defo Targeting him

[void moat]

reaper is cool cause you can dash attack into pogo and aurafarm

[slender juniper]

And you can't make it the same , that's not balance

[tired depot]

What quest needs the Pollip Hearts?

[slender juniper]

You can't give the crest that has more range the same amount of DPS as the baseline

[lucid trout]

I'm so happy I got signis and gron shortcut

[remote ibex]

Slower but stronger attacks for more range and less silk gen and a different Moveset is fair wdym

[remote ibex]

It has less silk gen and it has lower dps than evolved hunter

[severe steeple]

ima go kill crawfather now. top 10 boss in silksong

[left tiger]

I wonder if Phantom and Trobbio were friends.
They are both unironically very close eachother, wouldn't be surprised if Trobbio got phantom to do some sick organ beats for his shows.

[slender juniper]

It is, but you can't make the DPS the same as the baseline when you have more range

[odd hull]

[slender juniper]

That's just a freebie change

[remote ibex]

Wait till you find out about shaman and witch and beast and architect

[deft girder]

for an analogy, this is like saying s1 wanda from marvel rivals is good because if you lack mechanical skill she can aim for you

like no, she's still bad in every sense, you just are lacking in basic mechanical skill

it's the same with reaper- having a wider pogo doesn't automatically get rid of the numerous other issues, you just are relying on that one crutch to avoid actually learning the skill you're expected to

[slender juniper]

It has to be minimally -10% lower

[slender juniper]

Whar...those are all lower than hunter

In DPS

Because ofc

[remote ibex]

Are you sure?

[slender juniper]

Yes

[left tiger]

Well yea
He is a depressed thespian after all.
Just a theory
Because
Phantom of the Opera, ya know?

[deft girder]

to clarify, i don't think reaper itself is a crutch, i'm just saying that your using it as one

[remote ibex]

Are we talking with damage stacks or not

[slender juniper]

What

Which damage stacks

[remote ibex]

Evolved hunter

[slender juniper]

Witch is 10% lower DPs than hunter

Architect is 7% lower

[deft girder]

that categorically makes them worse than the others (but also reaper is still a worse example than those because the pogo isn't even that much better than the others)

[remote ibex]

Witch has more range and a better horizontal attack than reaper and less of an attack speed loss

[void moat]

passive gameplay is worse in silksong though cause hornet is meant to be a much more agile and invest more in fights

[left tiger]

Architect allows for hiveblood i mean lifeblood

[void moat]

hk outright rewards passive gameplay in how you heal

[opaque sigil]

Passive gameplay is weak in both games

[remote ibex]

What?

[lament vessel]

But it makes Me feel like I'm waving a ribbon so it's peak 😔

[void moat]

true yeah but better in hk id say

[slender juniper]

Exactly that's why we give reaper -10% less DPS than hunter but buff the silk gen

[remote ibex]

Architect is 10% higher if you land all hits no?

[slender juniper]

Nope

[opaque sigil]

Not really

[remote ibex]

So is the wiki just wrong then

[deft girder]

you don't even need to kill fast, the problem with reaper is that you're genuinely making the game harder overall, but you don't notice it because your moment to moment seems like less of an issue

[lament vessel]

The amount of cujt witch crest serves alone should make it peak 😔

[slender juniper]

It is not, the attack speed is slowrr

[left tiger]

you are forgetting
hiveblood
regeneration is a big deal you know

[deft girder]

so even as a "beginner tool" it's not good

[slim thorn]

after like a month i came back to defeat this boss (mastermode + a few some other mods)

[opaque sigil]

Hive blood is hot ass for any fight

[remote ibex]

I don't see that written anywhere

[left tiger]

If your bad at the game
Yeah
For sure

[vivid belfry]

idk, reaper is slow but it genuinely gets a lot of mileage out of just how fucking huge its pogo hitbox is

[opaque sigil]

Absurd notch cost for regen that’s so slow if it’s activating at all you could just win the fight without it

[slender juniper]

Placebo again, it's only a 20% increase which is lower han longclaw

[left tiger]

Btw I'm talking silksong here

[vivid belfry]

pogo hitbox

[left tiger]

The lifeblood hiveblood on architect you know

[slender juniper]

Pogoing suckass

[vivid belfry]

not basic attack hitbox

[remote ibex]

What are we even doing

[opaque sigil]

Then don’t say hiveblood if you aren’t talking about hiveblood

[vivid belfry]

reaper's basic swipes are kind of scuffed with the way they're shaped

[slender juniper]

Nwm it's the same

[light swan]

crests are about playstyles why does it matter if it makes the game harder

[deft girder]

lower base dps means every fight takes longer, meaning more chances to take hits

it means staggers are less valuable, making windows for attacking bosses less impactful

slow startup and high endlag means taking less advantage of other openings the any enemy presents

all of this for a marginally better pogo

[left tiger]

Well the best way I can refer to the lifeblood architect is by saying hiveblood so sorry

[remote ibex]

So architect is just more range more dps

[lament vessel]

But its like grimm

[slender juniper]

Yes , only because TC can't balance

[opaque sigil]

Reaper playstyle shouldn’t be nerfed by the crest being underpowered

[remote ibex]

I don't think giving reaper 30% extra damage would be that good at all

[slender juniper]

It would

[lament vessel]

I low-key hate that emoji 😔

[slender juniper]

[left tiger]

Shaman crest is fun to use

[remote ibex]

It would be worse than fully evolved hunter

[lament vessel]

Reminds me of reditors

[light swan]

ultimately the playstyle is still there no matter how much harder it is

[odd hull]

I think saying "overdose" gets the point across

[slender juniper]

Yes , everything is worse than that lmao

[deft girder]

this we can agree on

[opaque sigil]

Sure? But you can still criticize the balance

[severe jasper]

Reaper is the worst creast in the game

[remote ibex]

It would be worse than wanderer and shaman and architect

[fiery burrow]

so you hate me? 😔

[left tiger]

well i prefer just saying hiveblood because that's what it fundamentally is

[remote ibex]

I'd say worse than beast too

[slender juniper]

Whar...shaman is the lowest DPS in the game

[vivid belfry]

look reaper is numerically underpowered but after not touching it the whole game, I slapped it on against lost lace and won on my first attempt, which I can't say for the other crests I tried out for the first time against the final boss

[remote ibex]

Skills?

[vivid belfry]

so I can't agree it's making the game actively harder

[slender juniper]

When did that get into the conclusion

[light swan]

sounds to me like we are doing a “never use reaper” type deal

[remote ibex]

Are we not considering the entire crest?

[lucid trout]

I killed signis

[light swan]

it’s so bad it just makes things worse and we shouldnt use it

[lament vessel]

No 😔 I have a skibidi toilet decoration I cannot be talking about others using emojis

[slender juniper]

No, needle

[remote ibex]

We're talking about how to make reaper more balanced so it's not easily the worst

[slim thorn]

but longclaw is tool, and you could pair it with reaper anyways

[light swan]

especially for first playthrough people who are struggling

[deft girder]

if you almost nohit lace 2, you're probably ready to graduate to a better crest twin

[left tiger]

shaman is fun to use because

Silk

[slender juniper]

Song

[light swan]

something we have to notice btw is that if we’re focusing on playing safe and not aggressively finding hits, it’s much easier for o survive

[slim thorn]

i think it giving a single silk orb on hit passively is good enough for me, even when not on bind, and maybe remove rng on bind buff but i dont mind

[lament vessel]

Rune rage only lost lace

[slender juniper]

All it needs is a
15% damage increase
Buffed bind ability