sk-discussion

[unkempt dirge]

listen I think atp you have to at least admit you just don't know the hollow knight story well or bothered to dive into the characters

and that the only reason you think the characters in hollow knight are stale isn't because of the game, but because of yourself

Because I'm fine with you thinking the characters are stale if you know it's because of your own doing

and not the fault of the game itself

[lone crag]

i don't know the hollow knight story well but i don't take the full blame for the game failing to be coherent

[unkempt dirge]

it is coherent

everything I just talked about is in very obvious dialogue

[lone crag]

silksong having interesting characters is why i'm bothered to look deeper into the lore and understanding them

[unkempt dirge]

hollow knight did the sme though???

you realize before eveybody else left

[lone crag]

lace suffers like the hollow knight but she still has her own agency and is generally charming

[unkempt dirge]

everybody was disagreeing with you

I think you should at least realize this is on you

and not on the game

when every other person is actively saying that you probably haven't interacted with the characters

or that you clearly didn't pay attention, I think that more so says something about you

[unkempt dirge]

Because seriously how do you miss the elder bugs character depth when everything you need to know about him comes from himself

[lone crag]

i liked how grand mother silk was alluded to well before her reveal

[unkempt dirge]

and the pale king wasn't?

We literally get mentions of him throughout the entire game

[lone crag]

it doesn't hit the same as hearing her agonised scream and seeing silk come down to puppeteer the bodies

[unkempt dirge]

I will say this much new, you genuinely cannot argue the pale king is the most developed character in both games

[lone crag]

how much can a dead character be developed

[unkempt dirge]

and the radiance doesn't have the exact same thing

[unkempt dirge]

Can we talk in dms about this

because I don't want to get in trouble for going into essay mode

[lone crag]

no thank you

[lone crag]

nothing about her shouted that she was desperate or in pain like grand mother silk was

[unkempt dirge]

because radiance isn't desperate

she's angry

[exotic cedar]

The screams of thk is i think the screams of radiance

[white quiver]

good afternoon guys

[unkempt dirge]

The very first thing you see in the game is the hollow knight and it suddenly having it's shell be cracked, as the radiance yells out

we go to dirtmouth and the first thing we hear about is the infection

[white quiver]

does anyone have tips for Nyleth?

[unkempt dirge]

just get some cogwork flies

[unkempt dirge]

we go down to thegame go to the right

and what do you know a gigantic MASSIVE temple is upon us

[white quiver]

I have been

[still osprey]

Anything specific you're struggling with? And what tools and crest are you using?

[unkempt dirge]

we go inside and meet quirrel for the first time

who talks about the interesting architecture of the structure

[subtle lynx]

That is if you go right first

[lone crag]

are you explaining an entire playthrough of the game now

[subtle lynx]

I never meet quirrel there because he's gone when I get there

[unkempt dirge]

yeah

[unkempt dirge]

Because if you're going to make such a false statement

I might as well prove you wrong

by going as in depth as possible

just to prove that you just didn't pay attention

[lone crag]

is radiance a deep character

[subtle lynx]

No

[unkempt dirge]

no she is not

but she is built up a lot better then gms

[white quiver]

I'm struggling with her second phase, mainly. I'm using Hunters Crest with Flintslate, Cogflies, Magnetic Dice, Ascendants Grip, Compass, Fractured Mask, Warding Bell, and the zappy blue tool, and my silk skill is Pale Nails

[unkempt dirge]

Gms is a far deeper and more in depth villain then radiance

that much is true, but the radiance is built up a lot more then gms

[subtle lynx]

If you mean as in set up obviously no and it's intentional

The whole point of radiance is that she's s forgotten god, so there's nothing about her in hallownest

Besides a statue and a namedrop by the seer

[lone crag]

hearing grand mother silk's screams and seeing the silk come down made me antcipate her much more than radiance

[unkempt dirge]

and seeing the entire starting area become infected didn't?

[unkempt dirge]

The radiance as a character wasn't set up, the blight of the infection was

[lone crag]

there isn't much that correlates the infection to radiance other than obscure dialogue

[white quiver]

Volt Filament

[lone crag]

especially since the infection is very visually dissimilar to the radiance

[unkempt dirge]

we actively see that it comes from the egg

[lone crag]

orange bubbles coming from a bright white light

[unkempt dirge]

the entire point of the radiance is that she's a forgotten god, you're not supposed to know about her

you're supposed to have the blight of the infection be set up

as that is something that get's talked about a ton

[lone crag]

so what makes radiance better built up to

[still osprey]

Loadout looks pretty fine, I would personally switch Pale Nails for Cross Stitch, Warding Bell for Sawtooth Circlet, and maybe Fractured Mask for Snitch Pick. Try getting into a rhythm of using Clawline and then Double Jumping. When she summons the balls from the ground, get on top of her and start pogoing until they're gone. When she does the big explosion cloud thing, clawline to the opposite wall, be careful of her slashes, try to use cross stitch if you can react quickly enough. Her projectiles are the toughest attack, just stick to the opposite wall and carefully dodge

[subtle lynx]

I think comparing GMS to radiance in terms of set up is dumb

I don't understand the point of this discussion

[unkempt dirge]

They are quite different yes

[lone crag]

i am secretly participating so that i can get image permission

[unkempt dirge]

very cool

[subtle lynx]

Idek how do you get image perms

[white quiver]

Alright, thanks dude

[unkempt dirge]

you need to send a certain amount of messages

the reason for this is to account for raids or spam bots

so they can't just spam a gory image

[unkempt dirge]

he get's constantly talked about

narrative wise he's the most important character

we can't even escape his influence in silksong new

[lone crag]

why did the pale king need to have so many children
he could've raised just one hollow vessel

[unkempt dirge]

Because all of the other ones were deemed unpure

and he needed to crate a ton to find the one he could deem to be pure

[lone crag]

how did he know

and is this shown in the game

[unkempt dirge]

everything is said and shown in game

[unkempt dirge]

he needed a perfect vessel

[lone crag]

where does it say all the others were impure

[unkempt dirge]

one grimm

second the hunter's journal

[radiant brook]

hi guys

[unkempt dirge]

third the broken vessels

forth the literal lore tablet next to the abyss states that they found the very specific PURE vessel

that they needed

[lone crag]

the sibling journal entry?

[unkempt dirge]

literally states outright that they have a fragments of a will

[lone crag]

oh ok

[unkempt dirge]

and the knight itself is deemed to have one as well

and also grimm also refers to the knight in his mind as a discarded vessel

[unkempt dirge]

DISCARDED

[lone crag]

so the pale king was in the abyss watching them be born, and he checked each one individually

then he got to the hollow knight and took them up

[unkempt dirge]

The process in which he chose a vessel isn't explained

[lone crag]

i wish it was

[unkempt dirge]

we just know he had one

[unkempt dirge]

the process in which silkflies are made isn't explained either

we just know it was awful

and had to do with a specific contraption

we especially don't know the process in which they put the green princes lover into those automatons

[lone crag]

isn't it via the silk siphon

[unkempt dirge]

since they are the very specific outlier that wasn't a silkfly

[unkempt dirge]

yeah

it is

the green princes partner is not explained though

and neither is a lot of stuff in silksong

we aren't supposed to know every little detail new

especially when the process in which the pale king chose a pue vessel isn't deemed a important detail

[toxic vigil]

I mean.
It was like silkflies but they skipped the silk fly step and just put his soul in there... somehow.

[unkempt dirge]

the way that they were created was

[lone crag]

so why is the pale king the most developed character
he doesn't have much more than the other characters

[unkempt dirge]

that's not true lmao

[lone crag]

is it because of all the optional dialogue about him

that explain how he governed the kingdom, etc.

[unkempt dirge]

that was something the game went in great depth about

[lone crag]

that's nice

hornet is better developed in silksong in my opinion

[unkempt dirge]

She's not

Like she's genuinely not, a lot of people in sk lore channel hate on her character

[lone crag]

her journal entries are the most entertaining thing i've read in a game

[unkempt dirge]

tell me how her character is better developed

and I'll do a bunch of counter arguments to those statements, as that's easier to do

[exotic cedar]

Do i almost feel fear

[lone crag]

she goes from seeing vessels as expendable to learning from others' mistakes and recognising lace as life

[unkempt dirge]

that's not much

there's a bunch other characters that get more development compared to that

[lone crag]

she spends most of the game claiming to only help people for the reward to genuinely enjoying being a good person

[unkempt dirge]

especially shakra

[unkempt dirge]

She isn't a good person though

she does horrible deeds for sport

soemthing the game doesn't attempt to change

[lone crag]

in acts 1 and 2 she only stays in the kingdom for confrontation of the person who kidnapped her to wanting to prevent the destruction of the kingdom and save those in it

at first she didn't care about anyone else in the kingdom

[unkempt dirge]

same applies to shakra

she once deemed the pilgrims as weak

but later on appereciated them for their own unique attributes

to then defending bellhat with her life

[lone crag]

the journal entries fill her with personality, she likes fluffy bugs, respects the strong, hunts many creatures for sport, and hates flies

[unkempt dirge]

she's also extremely biased

and doesn't ever acknowledge what the weavers commited

something the game never tries to call her out on

[strange knot]

And that’s a character’s weakness, something that every character should have btw

[karmic trail]

2 hour 15 min and I am in haunted bellhart with cling grip. Do I go sinner road or do I go blasted step
Actually I cant do that, I dont think I've been to far fields

[lone crag]

she works well as an antiheroic protagonist, part of her wanting to help others, part of her giving in to anger and desiring revenge

[trail holly]

damn you kinda think the themes get repetitive

[wind mulch]

themes and such

[unkempt dirge]

?

[trail holly]

nothing

[lone crag]

she comments on the irony of coming from a kingdom so inherently linked to void yet admits to being afraid of the void

[unkempt dirge]

should I start talking about the pale king or

[lone crag]

the game's two main endings depend on whether hornet gives in to the godly, tyrannical side of her being, or whether she can appeal to her humanity (bug-ity?) enough to care about the kingdom

[old compass]

doesn't acknowledge what the weavers commited?

[lone crag]

hornet never drops her belief in necessary evils for the greater good, a trait inherited from her father

[unkempt dirge]

that's the thing though that a lot of people point out the pale king was never tyrannical

nor was he a subjugator

he was made as character who defied the normal higher being rule and for the most part was a good individual

whilst still very specific

[lone crag]

that's cool

so both hornet and pale king have their own arcs
i think hornet is better developed only because she has more information about her

[unkempt dirge]

we have more information on him though

like actually

[unkempt steeple]

Crest idea for sea of sorrow:
-the speed of Reaper
-the range of Wanderer
-the pogo of Beast
-the slots of Beast
-the ability of Wanderer

[lone crag]

little notes like how she likes fluff and had mates in the past make the difference

[lone escarp]

that's the SECOND time a boss turns invisible on me. i'm fighting watcher at the edge. you don't know it, but he's right behind me, holy fuck

[lone crag]

it would've been fun if we learnt that the pale king played chess with lurien

[lone escarp]

welp...

[unkempt dirge]

He was a reclusive king, rarely would he show his radiant self to the world, making it so the people who already worshipped him would deify him even more, each kings idol being etched with a personal design from that specific bug to show their apprecation to the king

[lone escarp]

thank you team cherry

[unkempt dirge]

he went into hallownest as a foreignor with a ton of different factions already being present but instead of conquering them he went to be a diplomat

he made a deal with the mantis tribe

[lone crag]

Do I almost feel fear?
is this cringe

[unkempt dirge]

used his charisma to have the shrumals join him out of their own volition

[idle sparrow]

Yes

[unkempt dirge]

and had several cases where he just left the tribes alone

[exotic dome]

it could be done better, slabfly entries don't fit her character and gloomsac entry is just... look at my nickname

[unkempt dirge]

the hive wanted nothing to do with himm

[lone crag]

i like to think the slabfly entries are her venting because of how horrific the place is

[unkempt dirge]

the mosskin stayed loyal to their god

[lone crag]

wanting them extinct is wrong but the flies do some heinous things

[unkempt dirge]

and instead of forcing them to join him NEW, he went about to respecting them

and because of that was even capable of hashing out an agreement with the goddess unn

so he could at least build roads (the mosskin would have authority over) which pilgrims of hallownest could have safe passage in

Something that contrasts the weavers or the other characters in hollow knight

[unkempt dirge]

instead of dominating everybody he did something the divine kind were not known for

and for that reason his kingdom flourished

[frozen meadow]

please don't tell me that sharpdart is meant to be the corresponding of shade cloak

[lone crag]

silksong is when we learn that pale beings naturally dominate or destroy

[frozen meadow]

they're adding a new ability later, right?

[queen acorn]

nope its even better

[frozen meadow]

rightttt?

[unkempt dirge]

to the very point that his kingdom became the most well known place in the hollow knight universe, known by every faction and higher being

[ionic dagger]

Can I play silksong at playable performance on cheap dell optiplex?

[unkempt dirge]

Quite literally gaving his kingdom NEW, become a fairy tale

which adventurers, historians, and explorers would go to long after the kingdoms unfortunate demise

[warm rune]

i beat silksong act 2

[lone crag]

i don't remember that many people knowing about it

[unkempt dirge]

because of how well he created the kingdom

[unkempt dirge]

How did you miss that

[lone crag]

i thought most of the kingdom was forgotten

[unkempt dirge]

No it wasn't??

everybody knows of the kingdom

elder bug states this

[lone crag]

lemm says that much of its history is forgotten

he doesn't know what the purpose of the hollow knight was

[unkempt dirge]

yes it's history not the kingdom itself

I just said that hallownest became a fairytale

and the biggest tourist attraction that doesn't mean people knew about it's history

[lone crag]

so pale king is a good ruler

being a good person doesn't automatically make a character the most developed

[unkempt dirge]

It's said people heard of it's greatness, not about character a or character B

[unkempt dirge]

I wasn't closed to finish new

this is like the most bare bones thing about him

[frozen meadow]

my device is a desktop laptop (not dedicated to gaming) and has core i5, works great

[unkempt dirge]

gms literally knows about him

[young sparrow]

Silkslander today

[unkempt dirge]

the grimm troupe know about him

[lone crag]

does pale king have any voice lines

[unkempt dirge]

THE STEEL MASTERS know about him

[unkempt dirge]

Yes

[ionic dagger]

Does it also run red dead redemption 2 easily?

[young sparrow]

Abyss ascent is the pk talking im sure

[lone crag]

what does his voice sound like i genuinely don't remember them

[queen acorn]

he doesnt have an audible voice

[frozen meadow]

it's NOT better at all

[lone crag]

dang

[queen acorn]

me when i purposely spread misinformation

[frozen meadow]

i want my shade cloak back

[lone crag]

oh

[queen acorn]

waiter waiter my i frame dash that does more damage isnt good enough

[unkempt dirge]

He took the form of a lesser being NEW

[unkempt dirge]

I meant he had dialogue

[lone crag]

i can't find pale king's voice?

[frozen meadow]

never played it, but it's not the best with 3d games (iirc that's rdr)

[queen acorn]

pretty sure they asked for voiceline

[unkempt dirge]

I assumed when he said voiceline he meant dialogue

[frozen meadow]

it has a starting delay and costs silk

no thanks

[queen acorn]

and does damage

[unkempt dirge]

because all of the "voicelines" the characters have aren't proper pieces of dialogue voiced out

[main urchin]

Never had a voiceline, only dreamnail/memory dialogue

[queen acorn]

and can be buffed what did shade cloak ever do

[main urchin]

Wreck traitor lord

[queen acorn]

true...

[ionic dagger]

I have to get a PC for silksong because I don't have the time for unreasonably hard games anymore and consoles have no modding to add easy mode

[lone crag]

i also find hornet to be a charismatic character

[frozen meadow]

sharp shadow does damage

better than this tragedy

[queen acorn]

genueinly missable damage

[frozen meadow]

but free

[unkempt dirge]

He revolutionized the kingdom, invented a ton of technology are focused on the improvement of his people and his kingdom

[exotic cedar]

Sharp shadow does like one nail damage

[queen acorn]

mhm

[frozen meadow]

not as if sharpdart isn't missable

[unkempt dirge]

He was a engineer

[exotic cedar]

Sharpdart is goated

[queen acorn]

i meant missible as in its so like

sharpdart is very goated

[exotic cedar]

Jarvis, send the sharpdart clips

[lone crag]

doing a lot of things makes a character feel more real and personal

[unkempt dirge]

and he formed a sort of friendship with monomon the teacher

[still osprey]

Sharpdart is an easy contender for the best silk skill

[frozen meadow]

well if we still get ahade cloak then yeah

[frozen meadow]

as i just said, u don't

[unkempt dirge]

he invented the stagways and trams that we get to explore

[lone crag]

but the info we get on hornet is smaller scale and is even more personal

[main urchin]

1.5 with dashmaster

[queen acorn]

that involves using fucking dashmaster

[ionic dagger]

I can't see the other messages

[still osprey]

For 4 notches total btw

[frozen meadow]

the only downside i find is that it lacks the full vividity experience u see on yt

[lone crag]

as well as the general larger amount of screentime makes hornet better

[main urchin]

Horner in Silksong uses dashmaster (down dash)

[frozen meadow]

u replied to it

[unkempt dirge]

He went on to have a union with another higher being his wife

someone who became obsessed with him

[queen acorn]

son

[still osprey]

Sharpdart deals like over x3 needle damage total

[lone crag]

when

[frozen meadow]

.

[unkempt dirge]

the white lady

[lone crag]

when did she do that

[queen acorn]

AND can be buffed

[unkempt dirge]

she built a gigantic statue dedicated to him in her personal sanctuary

[ionic dagger]

Good

[unkempt dirge]

and literally states she yearns for him

and that he's her beloved wyrm

[lone crag]

what do we know about their relationship other than having lots of children for the hollow knight plan

[unkempt dirge]

that they loved each other a lot

that she was his late wife, and that they were practically soulmates

[lone crag]

so how come pale king left her

[unkempt dirge]

He didn't

where did you get that idea?

he literally stil has his piece of the kingsoul

[lone crag]

we find him in the white palace in the dream realm

[unkempt dirge]

something that was formed as a sign of their union

[still osprey]

This is without volt filament

[old compass]

ah yes, the biggest silksong enemy of them all

[unkempt dirge]

he did so out of shame

[old compass]

the confusing damage scale

[unkempt dirge]

he was depressed NEW

It's heavily implied that he killed himself

[onyx python]

that's every game ever

[unkempt dirge]

and yes there is a lot of evidence to that

[lone crag]

so he did leave her

[unkempt dirge]

do you mean leave her as in them not being together

[lone crag]

yes

[old compass]

I mean, it's just a statement

[unkempt dirge]

then no they are still together

[old compass]

no shit vro

[unkempt dirge]

no he didn't leave her

[lone escarp]

Ughhhhh...... I summon the power of internet, i ain't solving allat

[lone crag]

but he left her to run away

[onyx python]

wiki

[unkempt dirge]

she locked herself up in a gigantic thing and sealed herself away

[lone crag]

so she left him

[unkempt dirge]

out of the desire to still want to breed with him

[lone escarp]

yeah

[unkempt dirge]

whilst he dipped into the palace to sulk

[unkempt dirge]

They are still married

They are just not in the same location currently

Cornifer and iselda are pretty far apart most of the time in hollow knight

that doesn't mean they aren't together

[lone crag]

so did the pale king leave the dream realm to visit white lady often

[unkempt dirge]

no he just stayed there and commited die from sadness

[lone crag]

isn't that an act of leaving his wife

[still osprey]

With Volt Filament it deals around 87 damage, + the tick of 5 damage from Filament = 92 damage

[unkempt dirge]

that's not how divorce works

divorce means you two aren't partners anymore

there are situations where two people are far apart from one another location wize

[hollow sedge]

i am in ||karak|| where is ||the watcher?||

[lone crag]

hornet and pale king are both well developed characters but hornet's traits are much more personal and her arc is given much more detail and time than the pale king's

[unkempt dirge]

soar situation

[exotic cedar]

Do you have silksoar?

[hollow sedge]

yep

but where to soar?

[queen acorn]

is this shaman too

[unkempt dirge]

doesn't the entire hollow knight game focus specifically on his character

and his relationship every single character

[lone crag]

not as much as silksong focuses on hornet

the knight is the protagonist but they're a blank slate of a character

[exotic cedar]

The place you find the memory locket

[still osprey]

No this is just base sharpdart

[queen acorn]

fire

[unkempt dirge]

well yeah nobody is arguing on the knight being this top notch character

people can argue that there's something going on for its character which is true but not that it's close to hornet

or quirrel or shakra, or cloth

[queen acorn]

i mean

[unkempt dirge]

or pale king

[hollow sedge]

@alpre ty i'll look around

[still osprey]

Sharpdart with Shaman Crest and Volt Filament deals around 121 damage total

[lone crag]

how many of the pale king's relationships does hollow knight focus on

[unkempt dirge]

also how would he even do that, he castead a almost impenetrable seal that still holds today

[lone crag]

he really didn't want to see his wife

[hollow sedge]

i have the volt item from that boss in karak, but how i can craft the weapon?

[unkempt dirge]

Mantis lords, herrah, the mosskin, lurien, ogrim, godseeker somehow, radiance, nmh somehow, steel masters, hornet, the hollow knight, the knight, his wife, monomon, the shrumals, the soul master, the colloseum of fools, his subjects including such as emilitia and old stag, lifeblood and the void

[lone crag]

so pale king is a good character

he's not as fleshed out as hornet

[hollow sedge]

he tried to do things right

[unkempt dirge]

how is he not as fleshed out as hornet

[hollow sedge]

still did some mistakes

[unkempt dirge]

when I just mentioned so many in detail things about him

in the last 40 minutes

without being halfway done

[lone crag]

because his personal life is not as explored and his arc is almost completely offscreen

it's normal because hornet is a protagonist

[unkempt dirge]

it is though

[lone crag]

especially in a game

[unkempt dirge]

you just didn't give me a chance to finish

[waxen void]

Ayo

[unkempt dirge]

the conversation

[unkempt dirge]

we were just now talking about his relationship with his wife

[exotic dome]

do i almost feel fear

[lone crag]

we know they love each other which is the standard
not much beyond that

[waxen void]

Guys how tf do I beat savage beastfly 2

[old compass]

being ancient has made hornet a weirdo lol

[lone crag]

i don't find this that cringe i'm surprised how many people do

[old compass]

it's not cringe but it's kinda weird ngl

[unkempt dirge]

he literally sealed a metaphysical memory

[old compass]

[lone crag]

can you explain it i really want to understand

[unkempt dirge]

we know that apperently it hurt to look at him

[old compass]

well, first she's like "I don't feel fear"

so then she's like "do I almost do"

[unkempt dirge]

idk why team cherry wanted to disclose such information about him new

[exotic dome]

it's js weird imo

[lone crag]

hornet is quite arrogant

[unkempt dirge]

but given that they wanted to tell us the fact that hornet likes fluffy things

I guess getting told that he is so radiant in his visage that it literally hurts to look at him

because of his aura

(no joke the game actual talks about his aura)

ANd saying oo the first ever light of existences light aura is that of the kings

because new you have no idea how many power statements we also get

we literally have the game compare his light powers to the primordial first light

that thwarts the void

we literally get told that apperently his dead corpse resonates so much power

[lone crag]

hornet has some aversion to the void because of how she killed the vessels, and how she sees the void as an uncontrollable, untamable force
she only supported the knight because the knight themself is void, and she figured if anything could control the void, it would be more of the void

[unkempt dirge]

that people can use it to track down hallownest

[unkempt dirge]

Hows this for smaller details new

or the fact that he gave ogrim a little crest to show his appreciation to the great knight

or that he entrusted mighty hegemol with the key to the city capital

and dedicated an entire statue to him

or that he's the reason the stags have their way of existence and created the stagways

[lone crag]

that's his appearance
i want to know his favourite food, what bugs he likes, what he spent his childhood doing, his hobbies

[unkempt dirge]

he likes ogrim, monomon, the five great knight, his wife and the hollow knight

[young sparrow]

You and everyone else
But that never happening

[lone crag]

i mean the creatures
like how hornet likes fluff

[unkempt dirge]

we know his hobbies

[lone crag]

people fixate on the pale king enjoying buzzsaws because we don't have much else

[unkempt dirge]

we know he really enjoyed inventing

[unkempt dirge]

apperently most of hallownests EXTREMELY advanced technology and advancements came from him

he had interest in the ancient civilization

that came before anything else

[lone crag]

the void beings in white palace? i thought those were experiments before the vessel plan happened

[unkempt dirge]

he had a fascination to the opposed element void

[unkempt dirge]

I'm talking aobut te crystal batteries

[lone crag]

for the radiance

[unkempt dirge]

the elevators, the plumbing

[lone crag]

i don't know what those are

[unkempt dirge]

the saunas

[lone crag]

where does the game say he did all of that

[unkempt dirge]

the acid computers

the stag stations

[unkempt dirge]

we get told by the old stag himself the Pale king ordered the stag ways be built

[lone crag]

that's not exactly a hobby

[unkempt dirge]

and that he built most of hallownest by himself

[lone crag]

really can i see

[unkempt dirge]

him enjoying to inovate and invent

isn't a hobby?

[lone crag]

can you show me

[unkempt steeple]

Weird there's literally zero bell beast lore outside her and bell eater's journal entries

[lone crag]

she's adorable

[unkempt dirge]

"In wilds beyond they speak your name with reverence and regret,
For none could tame our savage souls yet you the challenge met,
Under palest watch, you taught, we changed, base instincts were redeemed,
A world you gave to bug and beast as they had never dreamed."

[lone crag]

where does this say that he enjoyed inventing

[unkempt dirge]

"he who ordered the building of the stagways and stations."

[lone crag]

so he got others to do it?

[old compass]

bell beast lore:
is beast
transports through bellway made by ancestors
and that's it

[unkempt dirge]

we have the pale kings workshop

[old compass]

also she doesn't show us her thoughts through needolin, strange

when I played to her I was like "speak to me!!!!"

[unkempt dirge]

I mean nothing necesserily said he had that be a hobby

[lone crag]

i thought those were test runs of the void while he was working towards sealing the radiance, not a hobby

[unkempt dirge]

most just assume that he enjoyed it since he did so much

[unkempt steeple]

True I really hope dlc adds a stag nest-like location that gives us bell beast lore and explains how the beastlings survived/who was the bell beast's mate

[unkempt dirge]

There's really nothing saying he had that be a hobby of his like how hornet get's dialogue referring to her liking fluffy things

just that he did a lot for his kingdom and invented a lot

NEW

[old compass]

noooo if they do that the only way they're gonna implement her mate is via corpse

[lone crag]

i like hornet because we can follow her journey and learn about her past in a very personal way

the benefits of being a protagonist

[unkempt dirge]

I mean wouldn't you agree

I mean come on are you trying to tell me new that he did all of this without having some sort of hobby

in inventing

[lone crag]

i want to know if he played chess with lurien...

[unkempt dirge]

and building

[unkempt dirge]

he did research with monomon

is that something

[lone crag]

show

[unkempt dirge]

anwe literally see that in her archives

she literally had knowledge about his work

including the vessels origin something that lurien and herrah didn't

[unkempt dirge]

also she literally created that entire verse

[lone crag]

i figured that's because she's a dreamer

[unkempt dirge]

as a sign of appreciation to the man

[unkempt steeple]

Same with voltnest and the journal entry describes it as not concious (like a venus fly trap)

[unkempt dirge]

herrah didn't know squat

[unkempt steeple]

They still sing though so maybe they just can't speak...

[lone crag]

another thing the threefold melody and old hearts are much more fleshed out than the dreamers

[unkempt dirge]

she also talks about the false light in her archives

[unkempt steeple]

Imagine it was dead bc it tried to protect the bell beast and the beastlings from the bell eater...

[unkempt dirge]

each of the dreamers have a whole sub area dedicated to them like the threefold melodies and have a interesting boss most of the time

[unkempt steeple]

Given the cidadel's treatment of other bugs I assumed the bell beasts are an overbred version of the worms from wormways

[unkempt dirge]

she literally got to call him king light and the radiance false light

[unkempt steeple]

Like how we modified wolves into dogs

[unkempt dirge]

when basically nobody knew about the radiance

[lone crag]

i wish each dreamer was put in charge of a different section of hallownest

[unkempt dirge]

herrah was the queen of deepnest though?

[jagged ledge]

which one of these two looks better?

[unkempt dirge]

and a weaver, and hornets mom

[lone crag]

that is disconnected from hallownest

[unkempt dirge]

well yeah

[lone crag]

lurien only watches over the city
and monomon takes care of a small research centre out there

[unkempt dirge]

the entire point is that while the other other dreamers who without any issue agreed to become dreamers had herrah who was an issue

[unkempt steeple]

I wonder if the cidadel mistreated bell beasts

[unkempt dirge]

because hallownest and the citadel work vastly differently

also the cogwork core literally didn't have a specific singular individual running it

[old compass]

GMS definitly mistreats bell beasts

[unkempt dirge]

and high halls wasn't run by the conductors

they were running the entire citadel after being deceptively given the role by the weavers

[unkempt steeple]

How dare she

[hybrid flare]

Yk them doing their job wrongly and stuff

[lone crag]

oh i can send images now

[unkempt dirge]

nice artwork post it in hk art gallery

or art discussion too

[lone crag]

i did thank you

[unkempt steeple]

Are silk hearts made of silk or are they like, weavers' silk prodicing organ

Maybe both since gms seemingly used silk to shape the weavers' bodies

[hybrid flare]

They're likely some way for hornet to acquire a segment of her power

and connect to her

[regal dagger]

Silk Hearts seem to be made by GMS or lots of silk???

[hybrid flare]

Likely larger parts of gmss power thrown around either due to the haunting or the creation of a silk being

[unkempt steeple]

The first silk heart is in a random bell way and there seems to be alot of silk in that area, weather the silk heart made all that silk or all that silk created the silk heart is the question

[regal dagger]

i agree

[unkempt steeple]

Uhm mayhaps

[hybrid flare]

hornet can even have likely what haunted bugs experience

Being connected to gms and her memories

[regal dagger]

do you think silk hearts are made intentionally??

[unkempt steeple]

I kinda wish we got half-haunted npcs like myla and no eyes' description of what it was like before dying

[hybrid flare]

Likely not

[unkempt steeple]

Or that giant moss bug before it dies

[hybrid flare]

Haunted bugs dont quite die though

Pavo is a survivor and he explains to us how the haunting feels like

[unkempt steeple]

Oh yeah I forgot the bellhart residents got haunted a little

Yeah nvm he explained it well

[old compass]

I'm so glad I discovered the haunted bellhart quit and re-enter easter egg withoutv spoilers

[toxic vigil]

Well we were meant to get one

[unkempt steeple]

Iirc he said some can't handle not being haunted anymore right

[stable salmon]

i have the mod that makes hornet's old hk voicelines play in silksong and each time i use the throwing needle skill thing i cant help but scream shaw

[unkempt steeple]

We were?

[toxic vigil]

Learned pilgrim npc
Unused in the code

[unkempt steeple]

Same it's such a cool little easter egg

Does it have any dialogue?

[old compass]

"time to play silksong-"
"ayo what"

[unkempt steeple]

Does hornet have extra dialogue with pavo if you get that easter egg?

[old compass]

[still osprey]

I think some dialogue appears if you stay hung for a bit

[wind zephyr]

i hate this game

[wind zephyr]

u dont get money from anywhere and i finally had like 300 and i lost it all cuz i randomly got teleported backwards bruh

[onyx python]

it's gonna happen again

[wind zephyr]

yeah why do tc want to torture us like this

150% harder game than hk and enemies dont even drop money

atp imma just refund

[toxic vigil]

Hk gave a lot more boss geo

[unkempt minnow]

chat whats your fav silksong dlc

[wind zephyr]

yes and enemies drops geo too

[toxic vigil]

Also relics.

[wind zephyr]

sk doesnt give u any money from anywhere

[candid glacier]

you’re not far enough yet

[still osprey]

Steel Hearts was really cool I loved City of Steel and Sharpe is one of the best bosses in the game imo

[candid glacier]

the beginning of silksong is tedious for some reason but it gets fun really fast

[wind zephyr]

hm

[onyx python]

devourer of gods

[shadow vapor]

Sea of sorrow coming out tommorow trust

I know cause I was there

[jade hedge]

Godmaster

[candid kayak]

the day after [current day]

[candid kayak]

that one was kinda bad ngl

they put way too much focus on plasmified zango

[jade hedge]

Ikr it wasn’t too good

I’m still kinda happy they added silksong pantheons tho

[candid kayak]

ngl I don't really want pantheons in silksong

[jade hedge]

Why

[candid kayak]

something like the hall of gods? yeah sure, but boss rushes... no thanks

[jade hedge]

Silk song had way better bosses

[candid kayak]

pantheons are a slog, especially the last one

[jade hedge]

Yeah a hog possibly best new addition pantheons fun for some people

[candid kayak]

boss refights are a great idea though

[still osprey]

That's because hk bosses are boring

[terse heart]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1456551615577456805/1489262243311915017/bindpavo-ezgif.com-video-to-gif-converter1.gif

[candid kayak]

[still osprey]

The majority of silksong bosses are a lot more engaging

[jade hedge]

What has he done to us

[main urchin]

Shriek tier damage

[terse heart]

not give the bellhome key

[still osprey]

I had a lot of fun doing Pantheon of Pharloom

[candid kayak]

pfft

[jade hedge]

lol

[woeful skiff]

what do you guys think of what special bosses should be at the end of each pantheon?

[candid kayak]

quadruple zango

[main urchin]

Twelfth Architect is a given

[candid kayak]

where you fight one plasmified zango per side of the square arena

[main urchin]

A tool spam boss to counter our tool spam boss

[main urchin]

There’s Plasmified Zango’s in the Z Axis?

[candid kayak]

so there's a plasmified zango on the floor, left wall, right wall and ceiling

[still osprey]

Vaultkeeper Cardinius
Twelfth Architect
Conductor Ballador
Hive Queen Vespa

[main urchin]

Vespa wouldn’t be in because she’s in Hallownest

[still osprey]

She is literally already an unused boss in the files

[main urchin]

I think Forge Daughter

[candid kayak]

eh it could
it's all memories anyway

[jade hedge]

A Vespa fight would be cool tho

[main urchin]

Forge Daughter and Ballow as a duo fight

[candid kayak]

hornet has plenty of memories of sparring with vespa I'm sure

[still osprey]

Who invited Ballow 😭 We bringing Smelt Shovelers to Godhome 😭 🙏

[main urchin]

Ballow would fight by slamming you with a diving bell

[candid kayak]

ballow is like god tamer

[jade hedge]

Oro and mato but they aren’t equal

[candid kayak]

and forge daughter is the actual threat

[main urchin]

Ballow would be like the Barrel in the Captain Brineybeard fight

[woeful skiff]

cool, i thought of
Forge Daughter
Pinmaster Pinnley
2 bigg fleas
Ballow
Tip and Pill

[jade hedge]

Actually that’s better god tamer

[old compass]

if silksong's godseeker is a memory seeker so that the old hearts and vespa can come around, I wonder how it creates an ending that defeats lost lace

[main urchin]

But he’s using the Diving Bell

[candid kayak]

ballow is standing on the sidelines and occasionally tosses some hot coals in your direction like how god tamer leaps at you every few hours

[main urchin]

Diving Bell rampage

He’s the arena hazard

[candid kayak]

imagine if god tamer didn't give up as soon as the beast was defeated

god tamer fighting solo would be hilariously pathetic

all they do is jump every now and then

[main urchin]

Ballow goes ham with the diving bell and becomes a bootleg raging conchfly

[candid kayak]

wrecking ball

wrecking ballow

help

[jade hedge]

what if it was like obobbles like if the beast dies then god tamer becomes fast and gets like three new attacks

[candid kayak]

I hate oblobbles

[jade hedge]

Me too

It’s too hard to dodge

[candid kayak]

the fact that they gain extra health after you kill one of them is so bullshit

punishes you for trying to play wisely

[jade hedge]

Wait do they get more max health or just heal

[candid kayak]

count hits so you can kill them both one after another? no no no, it gets a heal

uhhh... I don't remember

[jade hedge]

Let’s just say it heals to max and doesn’t get anything else other than more speed

[candid kayak]

they regain like three hundred and something health iirc

100/200

[rocky jolt]

https://x.com/i/status/566080916083060736

MatPat (@MatPatGT)

So....many...."HUNGRY" MIDDLE-AGED WOMEN!!! #FiftyShadesofAwkward

X · Feb 13, 2015, 3:46 AM

[candid kayak]

normal fight hp

[still osprey]

Palestag has less HP than Oblobbles do in total 🐐

[cerulean sable]

Hey Lace, your void portal opening days are over

Give me the Needle

[jade hedge]

Oh come on

[jade hedge]

What needle doesn’t she have a pin

[candid kayak]

it should not get a health boost at all

[cerulean sable]

Smh

[candid kayak]

no she stole hornet's needle duh

[jade hedge]

Oh yeahh

And hornet stole lace pin

[candid kayak]

instead of rewarding you for being clever and counting hits on these constantly-moving identical looking enemies while also dodging their (stupid) attacks, it says fuck you and just gives it a health boost

to drag the second phase on instead of letting you avoid it by playing smart

[jade hedge]

Bruh

[still osprey]

How many bosses are there in both hk and silksong that are also NPCs

[jade hedge]

Uh

In silksong there’s second sentinel pinstress

What else

Garmond and zaza

Idk

[still osprey]

Hornet, Hornet 2, Nailmasters Oro and Mato, Paintmaster Sheo, Great Nailsage Sly, Troupe Master Grimm, Zote

Lace, Lace 2, Garmond and Zaza, Shakra, Second Sentinel, Pinstress, Green Prince

These are the first that come to mind

[jade hedge]

Oh yeah

[still osprey]

Lost Garmond and Lost Lace if you want to count those too

[peak lagoon]

47 in silksong including beastfly/skull tyrant 1 and 2

[rocky jolt]

add hollow knight and put "creator of pogoslop"

[jade hedge]

Lost lace and garmond don’t really talk to u I don’t count them

[peak lagoon]

1.Karmelita
2.Lost Lace
3.Lace 2
4.First sinner
5.Tormented trobio
6.Trobio
7.Last judge
8.Phantom
9.Widow
10.Nyleth
11.Second sentinel
12.Seth
13.Clover dancers
14.Cogwork dancers
15.GMS
16.Crust king khan
17.Pinstress
18.Lace1
19.Bellbeast
20.Fourth Chorus
21.Lost garmond
22.Watcher at the edge
23.Shakra
24.Bell eater
25.Sister splinter
26.Signis and Gron
27.Great conchflies
28.Crawfather
29.Raging Conchfly
30.Gurr the outcast
31.Moss mother
32.Moorwing
33.Savage beastfly1
34.Skull tyrant 2
35.Skull tyrant
36.Pale stag
37.Groal
38.Disgraced chef lugoli
39.Unraveled
40.Voltvyrm
41.Garmond and Zaza
42.Zango
43.Craggler
44.Savage beastfly 2
45.Father of flame
46.Broodmother
47.Summoned saviour

[still osprey]

Oh yea Seth duh

Does Karmelita count?

[rocky jolt]

HEUNG MIN SON 😭😭😭😭🙏🙏🙏

[jade hedge]

Oh yeah

[jade hedge]

I don’t think so

[still osprey]

You do talk to her but not in the same form as the one you fight her in

[peak lagoon]

?

[jade hedge]

Oh right idk then

Skarrsinger beastfly

Bro I’m tired ima sleep now cya

[still osprey]

Widow also talks to you but I wouldn't consider her an NPC

It's just pre-fight dialogue

Dung Defender could count

[peak lagoon]

Most bosses talk before their fight but i don't consider them npc

[still osprey]

Oro & Mato, Dung Defender, Sly, Grimm, Hornet/2, Sheo, Zote, Bell Beast, Lace/2, Garmond and Zaza, Second Sentinel, Shakra, Green Prince, Pinstress, Seth

I think these are all the bosses that are also NPCs

[unkempt dirge]

I have come from the future to say this statement is insane

Hallownests infanty is said to be well trained too

nubbie I appreciate you, and obviously this is just for the sake of debating but you know that hollow knight went out of it's way to actually hype up hallownests infantry

let's not be pretending otherwise

[still osprey]

You can also count Lost Lace, Lost Garmond, and Karmelita

[glossy nebula]

Fav boss?

Mine is trobbio (not his purple version, the purple version could have been better)

[cosmic nest]

is it crazy to say Grimm could be a weaver

[exotic cedar]

https://tenor.com/view/silksong-karmelita-parmelita-heart-locket-heart-gif-12300271531395975177

[cosmic nest]

Nyleth???

[exotic cedar]

Nyleth is good imo

[still osprey]

Nyleth is awesome when you get the hang of her

[unkempt dirge]

are we ignoring the sentries

[exotic cedar]

Nyleth only has one bad attack

[glossy nebula]

Yes

[unkempt dirge]

which are said to be rather skilled and worth noty opponents

[glossy nebula]

Grimm is a cockroach

[unkempt dirge]

or the fact that there's an entire pale court

[split lodge]

In every playthrough zango was always just a source for 4 plasmified bloods

[broken seal]

yes

[unkempt dirge]

with many untold to us heroes and great warriors

[exotic cedar]

is there any cockroach in hollow knight universe

[glossy nebula]

Grimm

[still osprey]

Skrills? Do those count?

[broken seal]

i feel like one of the moth graves had a bug resembling a cockroach

might be wrong tho

[cosmic nest]

look at this though

[broken seal]

crawling like a bug does not make someone a weaver/spider

also, four limbs

[cosmic nest]

Ok but out of the four times it happened three were weavers

[glossy nebula]

Architect tool

[cosmic nest]

he definitely has more we see his hands

[broken seal]

Hornet only has 4 limbs but she also only does this action when using a Scuttlebrace

[cosmic nest]

shit ur right actually

[still osprey]

Grimm just uses the scuttlebrace too

[glossy nebula]

Thats what I said

[cosmic nest]

but there’s so many similarities they both use the drill shit and the head shape is oddly similar

[glossy nebula]

Also day 0 of asking when sea of sorrows dlc

[still osprey]

Tomorrow

[rocky jolt]

https://tenor.com/lRgbYvcJTKG.gif

[glossy nebula]

He uses tools

[glossy nebula]

Thx

[cosmic nest]

this is boring though

[broken seal]

tools

[glossy nebula]

Tools are mostly crafted by weavers tho

[cosmic nest]

he’s a Halloween Dracula boss couldn’t he have some spider whatever I forgot the word

Weaver ancestry

[broken seal]

hornet does these things through tools

[glossy nebula]

The problem is grimm is much older

[broken seal]

grimm is based around bats and vampires and shapeshifters

[glossy nebula]

And I dont think the nightmare heart could embody a weaver

[cosmic nest]

do we have a Grimm troupe timeline?

[glossy nebula]

No

[broken seal]

that's why he can do the spider crawl, he shapeshifts

bro literally becomes a pufferfish

[cosmic nest]

this is probably the answer

ugrrgh Grimm why can’t u be a weaver

[glossy nebula]

But grimm is also immortal and only killable in his normal form

[broken seal]

wouldn't really make sense

[glossy nebula]

And it somehow only happens after the 3rd stagger

[cosmic nest]

actually wait I’m actually an idiot

[broken seal]

also Weavers are exclusively female based on our current info and the goals of GMS in elevating the pharlids in the first place

[cosmic nest]

Grimm is a man

The weavers are all girls

[glossy nebula]

Like I tried filling him with spells he just instastaggered

[cosmic nest]

genuinely just evaporate me

[broken seal]

😭🙏

[cosmic nest]

if we were on TikTok I would be called a Larp rn

[glossy nebula]

No

[broken seal]

hk larper

[cosmic nest]

[glossy nebula]

Also since pharloom is nearly a dead kingdom

[still osprey]

GMS HATES men and nonbinary people

[glossy nebula]

Grimm troup dlc confirmed

[broken seal]

as she should

[cosmic nest]

relatable but not the not the enby part

can Grimm come to pharloom pls I want him back

[glossy nebula]

Maybe after 6 years when grimm troup dlc gets released for skong we will get our answers about nightmare heart

[glossy nebula]

He should

It is a nearly dead kingdom

So the troupe can come

[cosmic nest]

tc literally was like here new massively powerful higher being also the entire map of the hkss planet goodbye

[cosmic nest]

I wouldn’t say this

[broken seal]

first grimm fight in sk is nkg and the upgraded fight is like nkg++

[cosmic nest]

It’s way better off than hallownest

[glossy nebula]

Mushroom boy came, that confirms it

[cosmic nest]

I’m gonna be so real I didn’t do that side quest in either game

[still osprey]

When are we going to port Hornet into HK I want to fight PV with her...

[glossy nebula]

They came to hollow nest too late because nobody summoned them

[glossy nebula]

But but size matters

[still osprey]

I need it to be known I almost called Hornet "Silksong" when typing this 😭 Her name is Silksong!!!!

[cosmic nest]

godmaster ending

[glossy nebula]

John silksong is too big to walk through hallownest

[broken seal]

thought people kinda did that already

[glossy nebula]

They did the opposite

[still osprey]

They ported Radiance to Silksong, and The Knight to Silksong

[glossy nebula]

I saw john silksong vs radiance

[broken seal]

ohhh that's what it was

[glossy nebula]

Or abs rad it was

[cosmic nest]

silksong is stronger than hollow knight

[glossy nebula]

No, we didnt see that battle

It cut right at the beginning of it

[cosmic nest]

ok but hornet still probby wins

[glossy nebula]

Hmm but hk isnt that weak anymore, no more radiance

And he broke his chains by himself

As I didnt break them

[cosmic nest]

Actually wait this is hornet pre silkysong nvm

[glossy nebula]

Hortnet pre silksong is stronger than post silkson

[broken seal]

idk abt that one gng😭

[glossy nebula]

She could use all abilities. Also she had the dash abulity

[cosmic nest]

this is rage bait

[glossy nebula]

How did you play hk

[cosmic nest]

SHE IS STROMGER IN SILKSONG

lore wise

[glossy nebula]

Can you dash in silksong

With the nail?

[old compass]

she is in her weakest at the start of silksong

[cosmic nest]

obviously she can’t have all silk skills at once due to game balancing but lore wise she can

[glossy nebula]

Also how did lace learn how to do the sword dash

[broken seal]

post silksong Hornet is stronger than HK Hornet, but HK Hornet is stronger than SK Hornet for MOST of SK

[fiery burrow]

i thought she was talking to lace for a second too ngl

[glossy nebula]

That thing is only seen in hallownest

[broken seal]

no, she was weakened/cursed by the runes cast on her cage

[old compass]

rune cage gave her period cramps

[cosmic nest]

how would this even make sense

[old compass]

[glossy nebula]

Whar about cursed silksong?

[old compass]

oh, that
that too

[old compass]

I mean hornet already said it herself

[cosmic nest]

The cage was most likely just a seal to prevent spells from being used

[toxic vigil]

Hello

[broken seal]

Hornet is considerably weaker in Silksong than in HK (until towards the end of the game, during Act 3 she's probably stronger generally and she's def more powerful post act 3)

[glossy nebula]

We need more info about that parasite

[old compass]

"in my weakened state" "in my diminished state"

[toxic vigil]

Isn't it said

[cosmic nest]

Isn’t this at the start of the game

[old compass]

yeah she got fucked up by that rune cage

[old compass]

yeah, what I'm saying
she at her weakest at start

[glossy nebula]

I think her crest was much more stronger than what eva was able to fix

[toxic vigil]

Yeah, right after the cage

[broken seal]

because she states multiple times that the runes weakened her greatly and she was literally collapsing while traveling through Moss Grotto SK players vs reading comprehension strikes again

[cosmic nest]

can we not get aggressive please??

[broken seal]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1372604280741298187/1373489208202625074/attachment-40.gif

[cosmic nest]

..

[glossy nebula]

Thats kinda targeted

[cosmic nest]

Like ok whatever I guess

[broken seal]

(this is a joke lol mb wasn't tryna come off as rude)

[cosmic nest]

You literally sent a gif saying shut the fuck up

[glossy nebula]

There are weavers in hk

[broken seal]

yeah cuz it's a funny gif

[cosmic nest]

I’m just not in the mood rn

[glossy nebula]

Other than silksong

[cosmic nest]

I’m not hungry

[broken seal]

my apologies

[glossy nebula]

Waut

Is the damage to the hunter crest not permanent

[cosmic nest]

anyways I assumed hornet was able to shake off the effects of the cage once she got around to shellwood seeing as significant time had passed

[still osprey]

It lasts until you get hit

[glossy nebula]

As eva was only able to fix the crest so far

[strange knot]

Are you hungry

[old compass]

I am hungry...for medicine

[glossy nebula]

But so far isnt that much, she changed her entire crest

[old compass]

I AM SICK

[glossy nebula]

Infact

[strange knot]

Hope you get better soon

[glossy nebula]

The hunter crest post eva is so different than hk hunter crest

[broken seal]

whar

[cosmic nest]

I never read Eva helping hornet as her fixing the crest more so just making her stronger

[still osprey]

The hk hunter crest...

[charred tiger]

sea of sorrow somorro

[glossy nebula]

The hk hornet crest

[broken seal]

She was giving Hornet insight into her own Soul that she previously didn't have

Hornet didn't have the Eva abilities in HK

[charred tiger]

how do you know that

[broken seal]

Most of the abilities in SK are restoring her old abilities from HK that she lost after being weakened, but some are entirely new

[charred tiger]

did you get comboed by hornet without hitting her

[glossy nebula]

John silksong could stand in the air

[glossy nebula]

Yes 🙁

[broken seal]

like Rune Rage

[unkempt dirge]

what does that even mean

[glossy nebula]

John silksong is stronger than the previous hollow knight

[slender juniper]

There's no previous hollow knight

[unkempt dirge]

it's not

[glossy nebula]

There is new, the knight in my first playthrough

[unkempt dirge]

Hornet objectively was severely weakened by the rune cage

it was made to weaken hornet

ANd it did just that, making her lose most of her skills and techniques forcing her to relearn them

[slender juniper]

That's the knight not THE HOLLOW knight smh

[unkempt dirge]

for most of act 1 and 2 she simply regains what she lost

[slender juniper]

There's only one hollow knight

[glossy nebula]

But he became the hollow knight in my first playthrough

[unkempt dirge]

act 3 is the point in which hornet genuinely grows to be stronger then she was in hollow knight

[glossy nebula]

But she cant dash

[slender juniper]

None of them are actually "hollow"

[glossy nebula]

Yep but the title is hollow knight

The title of the person sealed inside the black egg

[unkempt dirge]

up to interpretation on if the hollow knight was at first pure or not

and there's no definitive answer but for the rest of the vessels

it is confirmed that they were not pure from the start including the character we play as

[glossy nebula]

Didnt the white pale king have preception into the future

[cosmic nest]

I thought the whole story was about how none of the vessels were hollow

[glossy nebula]

How didnt he know?

[slender juniper]

Well the problem is, you can't make a living being not have feelings

[old compass]

he knew, so he gave up

[glossy nebula]

Ending 1 knight is hollow

[cosmic nest]

It wasn’t like infinite foresight

[slender juniper]

Even if it can't think or talk it will be curious about itself

[glossy nebula]

Ending 2 knight is unhillow

[slender juniper]

And if it completely can't think then it doesn't live

[unkempt dirge]

monor it is heavily suggested that the hollow knight had it's purity tarnished

[cosmic nest]

there’s no evidence for this

[unkempt dirge]

by growing a bond with the pale king

[glossy nebula]

It can folliw order and objectives

[meager swan]

Beat GMS with only Silk Skills and no needle strikes. Close call there

[glossy nebula]

But growing bonds make you holliw

[cosmic nest]

The fact it returned to hallownest is proof enough it’s not hollow

it heard its siblings call and came back to save it

[slender juniper]

And to do that you have to think

[glossy nebula]

It returned cuz it was called

[unkempt dirge]

Jinn literally states the knight has a will

[glossy nebula]

Oh

[winged lily]

All momentos done

[cosmic nest]

By the hollow knight, yeah

[winged lily]

Time for materium

[glossy nebula]

What will. What does the evil knight want

[unkempt dirge]

that doesn't prove it's hollow, us getting told it had a will by jinn does

[winged lily]

Just got liquid lacquer

[unkempt dirge]

The requirements for a pure/hollow vessel is of one that has no mind to think and no will to break something the game really likes talking about

[slender juniper]

If you order someone it has to understand your order

[unkempt dirge]

Wouldn't by that logic a.i be alive

monor, what you're suggesting is that A.I is alive

[cosmic nest]

both prove it’s not hollow

[slender juniper]

"no mind to think" is a lie, you literally can't do anything without a mind

[glossy nebula]

Question, I am under the pale king's propoganda. How do the bugs of pharloom share thought throught the journey to get hornet

[cosmic nest]

ai is just code

[glossy nebula]

They didnt where masks

[unkempt dirge]

Monor we have A.I

[slender juniper]

You can get emotionless yes but you have to think to survive

[cosmic nest]

they come from other regions where higher thought is normal

[subtle lynx]

What is bro talking about

[slender juniper]

A.I does not think,it follows an argorithym,. completely not on topic

[unkempt dirge]

So you're telling me chat gpt has a mind

[cosmic nest]

most of the bugs in pharloom are pilgrims after all

[glossy nebula]

They came from pharloom, pharloom is only so big. They dont where masks

[still osprey]

New Sea of Sorrow image released omg

[glossy nebula]

They dont have an identity

[cosmic nest]

They do wear masks, don’t they? Pharloom has a mask maker

[unkempt dirge]

That's literally the same logic here

the vessels were supposed to be what A.I was

[glossy nebula]

Yes but these pilgrims dont

[slender juniper]

It is not

[subtle lynx]

Omg, this brings me back to good ol' days when we just had screenshots and trailers

[plucky stag]

something something animal instincts

[unkempt dirge]

Yes it is?

[slender juniper]

No

[unkempt dirge]

Monor I don't think you get this

[glossy nebula]

The ones that kidnapped john silksong only had the crest of pharloom

[subtle lynx]

Yes it is

[unkempt dirge]

masks are things most creatures are born with

[glossy nebula]

But pilgrims dont have masks

[cosmic nest]

what’s ur proof they don’t? If both kingdoms we’ve seen have a mask maker it’s safe to say that this is a normal occurrence in kingdoms so most bugs everywhere have masks

[slender juniper]

You're completely missunderstanding how gen AI works

[unkempt dirge]

you do realize that hornet has a mask

[slender juniper]

[unkempt dirge]

and that the knight has a maskand that elder bug has a mask

[glossy nebula]

Yes

[winged lily]

Alright that's all materium entries

[slender juniper]

To follow order, you must have a mind tot think

[winged lily]

Relic time

[glossy nebula]

I am talking about the pilgrims that kidnapped silksong

[subtle lynx]

No you don't

[cosmic nest]

exactly one of the requirements to be hollow is no mind to think

[meager swan]

That and the siblings hunter journal entry writes that they are fragments of a lingering will. Vessels are not supposed to have wills. With the Knight being a vessel it ain't too far off to conclude that they too aren't truly hollow.

[glossy nebula]

The pilgrims dont get masks as they are only fated to sing a song of silk to keep gms asleep

[unkempt dirge]

and Artificial intelligience follows the inputs we give them

[slender juniper]

Okay imagine I take away your brain, tell you to drink water

How are you gonna do that

[unkempt dirge]

I was referring to the knight

[glossy nebula]

In the game none of the pilgrims where masks

[subtle lynx]

If you took out my brain I'm dead, but idk what does that have to do with this

[unkempt dirge]

the sibling entry is talking about all the other discarded vessels being confirmed to be impure

[ruby agate]

i miss the style of the 2019 trailer it felt so much more alive

[glossy nebula]

Then how did they survive even when not wearing masks

[cosmic nest]

heavy disagree

[ruby agate]

same with the voicelines bro they ruined trobbio

[unkempt dirge]

we make A.I do the same

[unkempt dirge]

I can ask siri to turn off the lights

[subtle lynx]

I think he has the same voice

[slender juniper]

If I take your ability to think you can't follow my order because you don't understand it

[unkempt dirge]

It doesn't have a brain

[cosmic nest]

that is code.

[subtle lynx]

What about programs

[cosmic nest]

ai is made entirely digitally

[slender juniper]

AI is a program not a living beiny

[unkempt dirge]

do you not understand that the vessels were supposed to act like A.I

[ruby agate]

look at the glowdown man, it feels so much less alive nowadays

[meager swan]

I also was referring to the knight? Literally last sentence talks about the knight. I was just giving more evidence to them having a will

[subtle lynx]

They don't understand you mate

Shame

[ruby agate]

he's raspier in the trailer which fits him more imo

[terse heart]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1456551615577456805/1489262243311915017/bindpavo-ezgif.com-video-to-gif-converter1.gif

[slender juniper]

You cannot compare a living organism to chatgpt,that is just not possible

[unkempt dirge]

Seems like it

[cosmic nest]

no?

[slender juniper]

AI follows a pre set code

It does not think

[subtle lynx]

So you don't need a mind to think to follow orders

[unkempt dirge]

you realize the pale king literally made the wingsmoulds and kingsmoulds with imprinted orders within them right?

He's been showcased to be capable of doing the said thing

[scenic yoke]

I cannot believe I'm getting my ass handed to me by mount fay (T^T)

[ruby agate]

they could still think further, thus why something happens when you dreamnail the kingsmoulds

[slender juniper]

Yes ,that means they have a mind to think

[ruby agate]

that is thought!

[slender juniper]

Which is why that Is I alie

[ruby agate]

if the kingsmoulds and wingsmoulds were ai the dreamnail dialogue would just be "..."

[unkempt dirge]

Tell me how is this different from artificial intelligience

[ruby agate]

^^^

[unkempt dirge]

you realize that the shadow creeper has ........ dream nail dialogue

and it's alive right?

[ruby agate]

cause it cant think its entirrely void

[slender juniper]

Because AI does not live ,it follows a code, a living organism needs to think to survive,it doesn't have a code preset in it

[cosmic nest]

I feel like all the arguments here are flawed

[unkempt dirge]

it's not made out of void