sk-discussion

[flat remnant]

world is upside down sun is below

[old compass]

we do have mention of "dawn"

[median fractal]

What context

[rich pagoda]

Beastfly 2 could also be trouble for sure. I think both are going to be rough with limited resources and needle damage.

[shut quartz]

Our girl radiance is the sun✨

[median fractal]

"The dawn of" is a common phrase

[flat remnant]

craws are very clearly bugs that for some reason take on bird manerisms. look at the thorax. those beaks are not real

[quartz roost]

Pretty much the God of the sun has been slain/imprisoned and sealed

[median fractal]

Or dawn as in a metaphor

[old compass]

let me check...

[shut quartz]

-am not much of a anatomy expert

[quartz roost]

If I recall correctly isn't Radiance pretty much the God of the sun?

[median fractal]

Dreams

[flat remnant]

understandable have a good day

[quartz roost]

This is what I get for not playing the game for so long

[rich pagoda]

I'm terrified of what Silksong's Godhome will look like but I'm also really excited for it

[median fractal]

Shes jsut a really bright light probably because moths are attracted to bright light

[old compass]

ngl maybe radiance was indeed the only sun mentioned

[shut quartz]

Same lol

[median fractal]

Ok I think this is just a metaphor for the Radiance escaping containment

[quartz roost]

I think voided bosses might play a big role

[old compass]

yeah

[flat remnant]

they should make silksong's boss mode good

[shut quartz]

OHHH I was just thinking, what if they add something like that hidden Zote gauntlet in the dlc???

[quartz roost]

Probably. I guess the fore Brothers could be annoying with the adds too

[shut quartz]

I want it to be trobbio themed so bad

[median fractal]

Cant wait for the sherma fight

[rich pagoda]

Oh yeah I forgot about them oh gods

[rich pagoda]

I'd also want it Trobbio themed
That'd be hilarious

[quartz roost]

Silken Sherman coming soon

[rich pagoda]

I love Trobbio so much and I now have a vocal stim that's me echoing the TRRROBBIO!! cry

[shut quartz]

Sherma ascends and she becomes a god would be so peak

[quartz roost]

Let's see, what else has adds? Mossy. Anymore?

[quartz roost]

*he

[shut quartz]

Same, he’s such an amazing and whimsical character

[old compass]

sherma becomes new citadel ruler

[shut quartz]

Sherma is a boi?

[old compass]

and brings true holiness

[quartz roost]

Yup

[rich pagoda]

More bosses in Silksong have adds than in HK it seems

[quartz roost]

Many more

[rich pagoda]

Idk any off the top of my head

[shut quartz]

Well I’ll be damned..I’ve played the whole game thinking Sherma was a girl

[vale whale]

hornet

[vale whale]

me too man that was so long ago

[old compass]

I played the whole game forgetting to assume sherma's gender

[quartz roost]

I just realized that one ant hunter boss could be quite annoying no hitting

[rich pagoda]

I love Trobbio checking to see if you're actually leaving so he can disappear lmao

[rich pagoda]

Oh. Oh no

[quartz roost]

Lol

[shut quartz]

Man why are there only 3 trobbio gifs

[quartz roost]

I did that for most of my first playthrough. I remember when it was a topic that got debated lol

[rich pagoda]

That's unacceptable
We need more
Trobbio is amazing

[shut quartz]

He is peak

[flat remnant]

crawfather moss mother/s savage beastflies groal sister splinter raging conchfly broodmother unravelled

[quartz roost]

There are many more

[flat remnant]

am i missing any

[shut quartz]

I’m saving that last one

[rich pagoda]

I fought cherry Trobbio and I was honestly disappointed that the fight was over
"That's it?"
"No, get up so I can fight you more, dammit."

[quartz roost]

If Groal is counted then Karmelita is too

[quartz roost]

Lol

[flat remnant]

groal sends little guys in between waves to throw projectiles at you

[shut quartz]

Aw god don’t remind me of GROAL

[flat remnant]

i don't mean the pre-fight ones

[rich pagoda]

Groal 😨

[flat remnant]

what if his name was coal

[quartz roost]

I forgot about that

[timid sky]

I can only think of collector and vengefly king that have adds

[rich pagoda]

He's not coal enough for that

[flat remnant]

fluke and marm

[shut quartz]

I’ve always been disgusted by maggots, groal made me hate them more

[rich pagoda]

Flukemarm

[timid sky]

Right

[quartz roost]

Coal... Would he look like this then?

[rich pagoda]

Also GPZ

[queen acorn]

https://tenor.com/view/scared-cat-meme-you-have-gif-26575351

[rich pagoda]

Don't forget the Zotelings

[quartz roost]

GPZ

[timid sky]

Uumuu in godhome too actually

[flat remnant]

technically no-eyes since those are her kids

[quartz roost]

I didn't notice you said it already

[shut quartz]

https://tenor.com/view/collector-hollow-knight-gif-25730064

[rich pagoda]

You're good lol

[flat remnant]

https://tenor.com/view/elizabeth-persona-3-persona-dancing-club-gif-6544970025952888322

[shut quartz]

WHYYYY

[flat remnant]

that's cool i got them

[rich pagoda]

Even Discord has Collector trauma

[flat remnant]

what if his name was the poolecter

[shut quartz]

We hate collector for kidnapping the grubs

[flat remnant]

oh broken vessel has little bubble guys

[timid sky]

Hive knight

[rich pagoda]

He's not cool enough to be a pool kinda guy
Gotta be cool and dead to be a pool

[shut quartz]

Do you think no eyes counts as summons?

[quartz roost]

You must pick which to save; Bell beast and her children or the grub and flea

[flat remnant]

in lore yes in effect no

[shut quartz]

You monster.

[rich pagoda]

I'd say not really since they're honestly more like projectiles

[quartz roost]

Now pick

[shut quartz]

HOW DOES ONE CHOOSE???

[flat remnant]

what have the fatass grubs ever done for me. i can live without fleas

[exotic dome]

hive knight's minions are used as projectiles, they don't stay in the arena

[timid sky]

I guess

Soul warrior elegant

[flat remnant]

they're invincible as well

[rich pagoda]

Free soul

[quartz roost]

Charms, geo, mask shard, and the soul shard I can't remember the name of

[lavish apex]

i like it when fights do adds as projectiles

[flat remnant]

who needs them

[old compass]

but I can still see them-

[cosmic nest]

does anyone think about the fact that lace might have led hornet to phantom since shed know phantom wanted to die in combat

[lavish apex]

or just has them summoned for like 1 attack otherwise

[exotic dome]

raging conchfly's minion projectiles are very cool

[shut quartz]

I think I’d have to go with my grandchildren…the beastlings

[lavish apex]

yeah

[cosmic nest]

this definitely leans on headcanon buti love it

[flat remnant]

how did she lead hornet? are you saying the silk flies are her doing?

[rich pagoda]

I do think it's really cool yea

[lavish apex]

first time i saw that i was like "aw fuck not again" but then they just left and it was great

[cosmic nest]

basically yeah

[quartz roost]

Broken vessel/the other variant (can't recall the name), and winged Nosk

[shut quartz]

I believe so

[flat remnant]

i assumed they were just bug souls trying to help hornet go forward like was suggested in the whiteward room

[old compass]

lost kin

[shut quartz]

OHHH moss mother too!

And that fly mom too

[cosmic nest]

this is definitely what it is but because of how much lace is associated with the silk flies and how she can control them i just choose to believe hornet playing the needolin is to show lace where she is in the mist and the silkflies move on her command

[quartz roost]

Okay, you have chosen the death of all Grubs and Fleas

[shut quartz]

Brood mother

[shut quartz]

But they’re my grandkids…it’s a tough choice

[flat remnant]

it's not a bad headcanon

[rich pagoda]

Some of the bosses that summon ads are likely less problematic than others
Like how Flukemarm AB is still a joke and GPZ is a menace.

[timid sky]

Meanwhile in silksong for summoner bosses you have:
Moss mother
Savage beastfly
Sister splinter
Broodmother
Father of the flame (technically)
Forebrothers
Raging conker
Groal
Kinda unravelled
Crawfather

[flat remnant]

i wonder what the meta significance is about lost kin, lost garmond, lost lace even though lost kin isn't vided

[quartz roost]

It's meant to be hard. Now pick which to save:

[shut quartz]

King Khan too maybe?

[rich pagoda]

Trobbio

[shut quartz]

Trobbio

[old compass]

grimm is already dead

[cosmic nest]

trobbio

[flat remnant]

#sk-discussion message I've been saying this

i forgot about forebrothers

[timid sky]

If you count gauntlets then karmelita too

[quartz roost]

Grimm child becomes the new one

[rich pagoda]

I love Grimm but Grimm has never paid child support and is a neglectful father

[flat remnant]

does king khann summon guys while you are fighting him

[shut quartz]

Probably yeah

[old compass]

grimm child will die

[cosmic nest]

no

[timid sky]

Didn’t notice

Mb

[flat remnant]

then no he doesn't count as a summoner boss

[exotic dome]

free silk
horrible
meh
horrible
horrible (technically)
not bad
good
mid
horrible
aura

[flat remnant]

i think the crawfather glazing is actually pretty funny

[quartz roost]

SCARY

[shut quartz]

Not if I take him

[rich pagoda]

Anyway that's a long list of bosses that might be awful in Silksong's Godhome under AB conditions

Because usually summoned adds aren't going to be an issue for typical gameplay. But it will cause havoc when you suddenly don't have the gear to blitz the mobs away

[exotic dome]

he is canonically the only linguist in both games (invented a new word)

[rich pagoda]

I don't expect Moss Mother to become a pain
Kinda like Flukemarm
Gonna stay a joke

[lavish apex]

i've only very briefly tried bindings in 1

[rich pagoda]

But a lot of those are mean guys

[flat remnant]

does gorb mean nothing to you

[lavish apex]

all of them for any pantheon seems really hard ngl

[shut quartz]

OMG Gorb😭

He’s so hilarious

[exotic dome]

he should ascend more to reach crawfathers aura level

[shut quartz]

His random yapping the whole fight while he sneezes toothpicks at you

[flat remnant]

team cherry has forgotten about gorb

[lavish apex]

gorb is goat

[rich pagoda]

Yeah.. it is. I've done Pantheons 1-4 with all bindings mostly by playing by the mantra "slow and steady wins the race". I'll win... even if it's a 40 minute run. But a win is a win.

That falls apart vs P5 Collector AB entirely.

[shut quartz]

Very impressive achievement tho

[lavish apex]

i'm not convinced i could do ab absrad

[shut quartz]

DAMN It’s midnight already?? When did time do that

[lavish apex]

every other fight individually yeah but not that

[rich pagoda]

I actually gave AB Absrad some practice using a mod
It's fine. I'm still more worried about GPZ and Collector

GPZ I'm actually better at

[shut quartz]

What does gpz stand for again

[plush pendant]

Grey prince zote

[lavish apex]

gray prince zote

[shut quartz]

Ohh

[rich pagoda]

But I have at least 100 hours clocked on just P5 Collector AB and I have lost my mind here

[lavish apex]

are the adds a problem for ab in that fight

[rich pagoda]

Yes, yes they are

Unexpected problems too: the balloons
You might not be able to fireball them away.

But you can push them with a nail hit at least

[vale whale]

green prince zote

[lavish apex]

oh the balloons don't just immediately blow up when you hit them

huh
i feel like i should know that

i just never tried ig

[rich pagoda]

They do with max nail and Strength. They can tank a hit of full nail damage without Strength.

They actually have HP. It's interesting

I know that partially because I don't run Strength on my charm build when I do have charms

I'm a filthy soul eater main hehehe

[light swan]

all bindings absrad radiant

ababsradrad

[rich pagoda]

That doesn't sound fun but I'd probably beat that before I even beat P5 Collector AB

[lavish apex]

i saw a video of someone doing it 15 times in a row

which is insane

[rich pagoda]

I can do Pure Vessel Radiant 10 times in a row
And Rad Nail Only Sisters of Battle couple times in a row at least. They're my most consistent fights

[lavish apex]

i've done radiant pv 7 times in a row

[rich pagoda]

I don't know why I'm like this
I've done nail only Radkoth AB and I have footage

I prefer Markoth to Collector

[tawdry sierra]

hornet explodes

[vale whale]

i can do gruz mother attuned with unb. strength shaman stone and heart one time in a row

its too exhausting to do again tho

[rich pagoda]

Inspiring

I'll strive to do that blindfolded
It'll probably take a couple hundred hours of grinding

And uh
All of my sanity

What little remains of it after listening to heehee a hoos for hours

[lavish apex]

godhome challenge runners are sadistic

[rich pagoda]

Yes

Yes we are.

[light swan]

more dreamshield players

[mortal bluff]

Do we prefer the City of Tears, or the Citadel of Song?

[exotic dome]

i never touched p5 bindings and not planning to

[rich pagoda]

I'm thankful that Silksong has arrived so I have an excuse to avoid that demon.

[mortal bluff]

Until p5 Silksong edition comes out

[exotic dome]

entire citadel is better than cot
but cot might be better than just choral chambers, not sure

[lavish apex]

no contest for me

[rich pagoda]

There won't be the demon in it. The problem will just have a new face I can scream at

[mortal bluff]

City is better than choral chambers. I think the city has a magic to it which is hard to recapture, but the whole of the citadel may just have enough to be better

[exotic dome]

zote or markoth or the collector or god tamer or?

[rich pagoda]

P5 AB Collector is the demon

[lavish apex]

the entire citadel is an unfair comparison in most ways but i think i would still give it to cot in the aesthetics department

[mortal bluff]

Is the demon absrad?

[exotic dome]

that one summons primal aspids right

[rich pagoda]

Nah
Absrad is easy in comparison

[mortal bluff]

So who be the demon?

[rich pagoda]

Said it here

[lavish apex]

read bro

[rich pagoda]

And yea he does that
I sure love primal aspids

[exotic dome]

yeah p5 ab collector might be the worst thing in human history now that i think about it

[mortal bluff]

Ahhh yes. He’s rather the annoyance.

[lavish apex]

that does actually sound awful

[exotic dome]

true it's technically 6 areas vs 1 area

[rich pagoda]

A demon that's eaten about a hundred hours of my time and I still can't win consistently enough

I may have trauma

https://tenor.com/view/взгляд-2000-ярдов-война-war-soldier-gif-3632617944134077161

[exotic cedar]

Coughting bomb vs hydrogen baby

[rich pagoda]

Hi Alp

[exotic cedar]

Hello

[old compass]

yeah I prefer giant church

[lavish apex]

ok apparently the aspids have reduced health at least

or just all the adds do

[exotic cedar]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/887177593835626568/1498455683925020712/YGo9FNW.png?ex=69f1391b&is=69efe79b&hm=8fe35976c4522c255a8d3bc563e6acfc63e8308bd554105e9a5d478cc1dba290&

[rich pagoda]

Chopper
One of my poodles

He never has any thoughts

[exotic cedar]

I can't believe animals are real

[cosmic nest]

Putrified ducts is genuinely a bottom 3 area

genuinely who thought to make bilewater but worse

whats even in putrified ducts

[mortal bluff]

Real. Wisp thicket is probably the worst ever if we aren’t counting it as a part of greymoor

[mortal bluff]

The fleas do be hella tho…

[cosmic nest]

at least wisp thicket has a boss and charm

And its unique

[mortal bluff]

I count the fleas as taking the spot of a boss I suppose. And the egg of fleala and the wreath of purity are both “charms” you get there

[cosmic nest]

i wouldnt count the flea one because thats just for getting all the fleas

wreath of purity is good but why is it where it is

[mortal bluff]

Yeah, but still technically petrified ducts… I still see your point. The gloom looked so much cooler lol

[cosmic nest]

AUUUGGH

I forgot abt the gloom

a poison area would have been awesome

[mortal bluff]

I would rather have bilewater and the ducts over the gloom tho, and at least the gargant gloom survived extinction lol

[cosmic nest]

that thing is horrifying

[mortal bluff]

I know! I love it

[cosmic nest]

the abyss was done so well imo

[mortal bluff]

Ehhhhhhhhh

[cosmic nest]

I was actually scared being in there

[mortal bluff]

Yeah. It’s serviceable

It’s just like, I think HK and Silksong actually have each others missing pieces regarding the abyss

[cosmic nest]

pls elaborate

[mortal bluff]

Hollowknights abyss feels shallow on the content. Literally one unique enemy. Whereas Silksong has solid content, 4 unique and weird enemies, and an absolutely killer boss. However the HK abyss has WAY cooler set pieces, like the lighthouse, the giant bug holding the chalice of void, and the broken egg. Silksong has none of that, and it leaves the abyss feeling oddly bland. Give me some weird ass abyss architecture or statue. The weavernest isn’t impressive the 5th time you’ve seen it.

[cosmic nest]

i agree, there were really no shines? What about AC

[opaque axle]

Hi

[mortal bluff]

So HKs abyss lacks content, but makes up for it in atmosphere, and silksongs abyss lacks atmosphere, but makes up for it in content.

[cosmic nest]

i wish we could have see the tunnels the weavers left out of

[mortal bluff]

I think cindril is as good as it gets there sadly

[cosmic nest]

i kinda hated the hk abyssn

[mortal bluff]

But what content would they add for that anyway?

[cosmic nest]

u go left u get shriek u go right u get shade cloak

go down u get the egg cutscene

[mortal bluff]

Exactly silksongs abyss does so much more mechanically. But is just kinda drab lol

[cosmic nest]

the ending cutscene does so much for it

when hornet wakes up and we see the towers in the back its like whoa

wow the abyss is massive

[mortal bluff]

Yesss.

[graceful oyster]

There's also the consideration that the Abyss doesn't belong in Silksong

[mortal bluff]

One change I think is sorta lame is how TC blurred literally every background to oblivion

[graceful oyster]

Stupid inclusion

[cosmic nest]

Why?

[mortal bluff]

If the intro to the citadel didn’t exist it would be way lamer also, just because we miss out on so much background detail otherwise

[cosmic nest]

THIS THIS THIS

[graceful oyster]

It had its establishment and conclusion in HK, now it's breaking out of good sleep to be a C-tier plot device

[cosmic nest]

the citadel is fucking ginormous but we only see a bit and it feels like one small building

[graceful oyster]

Dare I say D tier

[mortal bluff]

City of tears is smaller but feels larger if you catch my drift lol

[cosmic nest]

i disagree but ik what ur saying

[cosmic nest]

Also i know what u mean by this but i kinda disagree

i think TC wants us to understand that the void is such a poweful and important part of the hk universe and thats why its in both games

Same with lifeblood

[exotic dome]

too high

[cosmic nest]

i think we’re 100% getting a void dlc

[mortal bluff]

Yeah, the knight showing up at the end is kinda a deus ex machina, but I think it’s the last bridge needed to truly tie the games together as one piece

[cosmic nest]

it was also just super fanservice but i dont care at all

[mortal bluff]

It’s almost confirmed that we will at least get steel DLC which includes void beings

[cosmic nest]

actually so excited for this

[exotic dome]

if steel city counts as void-related dlc, yeah

[cosmic nest]

the hk world is so big but tc wants to blur their backgrounds to make it feel tiny..

genuinely like why

[mortal bluff]

But tc are absolute ballers when it comes to fan service, like, the stag station in Deepnest, or the “I’ll always be a daughter of hallownest” line, will never not be awsome

[cosmic nest]

right fan service is not a bad thing ppl have the wrong idea

[mortal bluff]

I just wish they don’t completely axe that Vespa boss they were working on

[cosmic nest]

I hope its coming back i dont think theyd just axe it

i agree that it didnt fit the red memory but still

[mortal bluff]

Yeah, they’re usually good at keeping the enemies and bosses from cut content. For the most part

[cosmic nest]

the voided judge was such a bummer to lose

[mortal bluff]

Yeah, just seemed like a logistical nightmare

[mortal bluff]

Ehhh, it’s fine. Just crank em to radiant when the boss rush dlc comes out

What I would really like is a coliseum of fools in Silksong

[cosmic nest]

if we dont get fourth chorus and gms 2 im gonna kill someone

[cosmic nest]

could be in boss rush dlc

[mortal bluff]

Hell yes! Please fourth chorus 2! Put it in the underworks and replace the lava with grinding gears or something

[cosmic nest]

they could just pull a sisters of battle and have its other limbs actually function

and gms 2 would go insane

[rich pagoda]

I love that
So much

[cosmic nest]

just her before the coccoon

[rich pagoda]

I also just love Sisters of Battle

[cosmic nest]

no clue why this didnt happen in the underworks but ok tc

[mortal bluff]

A huge void boss with multiple limbs all functioning like the fourth chorus would actually be awsome

[lavish apex]

personally my favorite multiboss in any 2d game

by sheer fun factor

[mortal bluff]

I love lost lace, but if the final boss was a void abomination similar to the fourth chorus it would have been wonderful, hell make the last couple of phases normal lost lace, just give me some spectacle

[rich pagoda]

Same. It's so good and so well designed

[lavish apex]

i think coggies and the mio one are super good also but it's just hard to match them

[exotic dome]

sisters of battle is perfect

[mortal bluff]

Truly shows team cherrys mastery of 2d bosses. Duo bosses often feel overcrowded, but having three glide like a dance is actually master craftsmanship

[exotic dome]

ladE from 9s is the closest one to it

[rich pagoda]

Blasphemous 1 has a good multi boss but it's still not as good as Sisters of Battle

I also wanna say that Abyss Watchers in DS3 are a pretty solid multi boss. That one is fun.

[mortal bluff]

Abyss watchers are solid. But if we dip into 3d sisters of battle has a bit more competition

[rich pagoda]

True lol

It's just rare to find any good multi boss out there

They're the exception and not the rule

[exotic dome]

abyss watchers are good

[lavish apex]

tres angustias?

[rich pagoda]

Yea those
They're pretty fun

[lavish apex]

they're decent ig

[rich pagoda]

I liked em quite a bit

[mortal bluff]

Like it’s a bit cliche, but ornstein and smough are probs the kings for life lol

[rich pagoda]

Honestly
You're not wrong

They're the goats

[mortal bluff]

Honestly TC is very good at making duo bosses, none are truly a real miss for me

[exotic dome]

sister friede second phase was ok too, it's the weakest phase tho

[rich pagoda]

I agree
None are a complete miss

[exotic dome]

i'd say clover dancerrs is a miss, not that it's a bad fight, it's just disappointing

[strange knot]

wtf is sister friede

[mortal bluff]

Cog dancers, Oro and mato, mantis lords, watcher knights, all excellent to good bosses

[lavish apex]

signis and gron are the worst one i would say

[rich pagoda]

Only one that's kinda meh is God Tamer but it's hardly a duo

[mortal bluff]

It’s disappointing, but not bad. Just needed a little extra something

[exotic dome]

truth

[lavish apex]

i don't like them very much
they're not terrible but i wouldn't say they're very good

[cosmic nest]

i think lost lace is better than most people give it credit for

[mortal bluff]

And it’s not like it’s horrible. Don’t want a really hard boss after C3 anyway

[exotic dome]

god tamer sucks but its not really a duo boss, you kill the big one and fight ends

[mortal bluff]

She’s absolutely excellent, but lacking in final boss energy lol

[lavish apex]

that's true

god tamer is just so forgettable lol

[rich pagoda]

Agreed. It's more of a trick to recognize that the tamer is just a lil pissant and you can ignore em
You can get got by not realizing that one's not really important here

Also man I love Watcher Knights
But man I hate that they have the backwards roll again

Can we un-patch that please?

[mortal bluff]

That may be my fault…

What’s so bad about it?

[lavish apex]

lost lace has plenty of spectacle just not the same way as like. idk radiance

[mortal bluff]

I may have told Graig about that backroll before the patch…

[rich pagoda]

Just annoying lol
I'm just being a butthurt pissant about it because I have to relearn the boss again

[cosmic nest]

maybe my love for lace and gms is just too strong but lost lace is lowkey the perfect final boss for me

[rich pagoda]

Dw I'm not serious about it at all. Whining as a bit
I don't actually care that the backroll is back

[cosmic nest]

you fight lace once in act one, once in act two and then to end the game in act 3

she kinda is the perfect foil if im even using that right

i dont think foil is right shes more rival

[brittle hill]

Tbh she feels like a boss before the final boss (like hollow knight before radiance)

[exotic dome]

does anyone think that watcher knights might be inspired by 6 gargoyle boss in ds2

[mortal bluff]

She’s def excellent. Like maybe top 5 in the franchise, but visually it could have been her + something more. Like, as a boss I prefer her to the radiance, but as a final boss the radiance just screams “this is the end”

[cosmic nest]

i know gms was nerfed for the twisted child ending but oh my god shouldnt she be stronger??

[mortal bluff]

Yeah, the backroll patch exacerbated a glitch where they can get caught in the wall while rolling and do a weird half roll which breaks up the flow

[rich pagoda]

So that's why they were doing that. I thought it was intentional.

I thought it was a feature, not a bug

[mortal bluff]

GMS should be stronger. I personally like the idea of her controlling silk, so you only gain half as much silk from hitting her. Healing is the main reason her and many bosses in the game are too easy.

[brittle hill]

Deadass I struggled more with fallen garmond than her 😭 like she has such aura and build up to her being like the big boss like radiance but yet for some reason it’s actually lace who’s the final boss

[mortal bluff]

Yeahhh. Might want to report it before it gets stuck in the game forever…

[rich pagoda]

[mortal bluff]

Second sentinel, GMS, and first sinner all suffer from hornet being able to out heal any of their attacks

[lone escarp]

wdym

[mortal bluff]

Ngl the OG hollowknight has some funky probs with bosses and wall collisions. Just check out hornet 2 in godhome for example lol

[dull star]

are you still able to fight seth act 2? or has it been patched

[exotic dome]

patched

[mortal bluff]

Yeah now it’s act 1

lol

I really hope tc just go absolutely bonkers with the dlc

[brittle hill]

Idk if it’s only me but I was expecting someone much bigger for the final boss instead of js void lace like the shade lord ig 😭

[mortal bluff]

Like take me to another kingdom, or give us a 4th act, just really knock my socks off

[old compass]

GMS is kinda the hollow knight of silksong

in terms of boss difficulty

and placement

[mortal bluff]

Yeah. But she can be harder because she isn’t gating the final boss directly

I think she should be at least harder than lace 2

[old compass]

yeah, could be 40% more difficulty imo

[rich pagoda]

Yeahhh
It's a bit wonky still. Some hitbox collisions also have me scratching my head sometimes but I choose to not question it when it benefits me yknow

It seems like TC improved a lot on their game design though in Silksong because Silksong feels more soulslite first, then 2d platformer. Versus HK which is heavily a platformer first, then soulslite esque game.

[exotic dome]

silksouls

[mortal bluff]

Silksong definitely feels less glitchy

They clearly have gained serious skill

[exotic dome]

well, it's been 7 years

[mortal bluff]

EVEN THOUGH

they forgot to fix the looking down animation at one mask. Like bruh. You had the game for 7 years and didn’t manage to catch that?!

[exotic dome]

what happens if you do that

[rich pagoda]

Idk how to explain it but I think the game design aspects has a bit more polish. Ignoring delivery quests which uhh.. do not seem to be good design at all

[mortal bluff]

It’s not even animated. Just instant neck snap. The windy version works in the steps, but if your out of the wind it quits working again lol

[mortal bluff]

Silver bells actively makes the game worse, change my mind.

[exotic dome]

they mastered the movement and the combat but the game has more flaws than hk

collect my bells

[mortal bluff]

The shell shard system is actively bad

So many cool little nooks and crannies filled with worthless shell shards

[rich pagoda]

Ah yes. "Gotta look down this pit. -CRUNCH- Huh. Spikes. Oh don't worry that's a normal noise."

[mortal bluff]

Tc is scared of geo rocks now apparently

[exotic dome]

shard system
quests
some bosses
not rewarding yet punishing sequences
narrative but that's a minor issue in a metroidvania

[mortal bluff]

I’d take 20 rosaries over 100 shell shards

[rich pagoda]

I'm not gonna change your mind
You're right
Love the game to pieces but oof...

[mortal bluff]

Some of the punishment’s are actively funny as hell though

[brittle hill]

Bruh I hate that HK does that

introduce a powerful enemy who npcs yaps about (like npcs in silksong about granny or pale king flashbacks with HK)

you finally get to a boss who’s should be extremely difficult

it ends up that they’re quite easy and there’s actually a MUCH stronger boss than supposed “final boss” like I would understand if like they would be one of the difficult bosses in the games but both HK and granny aren’t even that difficult compared to some optional bosses

[rich pagoda]

Sinner's Road bench is funny

[mortal bluff]

I just imagine them laughing in my face when I fall for their diabolical traps

[old compass]

honestly the quests are ok on the first playthrough, they're not replayable though, becomes a chore

[exotic dome]

sinners road bench is so good, you can figure it out pretty easily if you know about breakable walls

[old compass]

[mortal bluff]

HK not being difficult is a good thing, for GMS it’s a bad thing.

[rich pagoda]

Yeah it's good and pretty funny

[cosmic nest]

did anyone actually have to do the last judges quest on first playthrough

[lone crag]

i only cared about grand mother silk because everyone in the game talked about her

[mortal bluff]

Radiance holds so much more story presence than GMS

[exotic dome]

no rewards after some bosses and gauntlets doesnt make sense tho, adding rosary rewards would fix the economy + people would get less frustrated

[lone crag]

i didn't understand who the hollow knight was when i fought them

i only remembered the statue, that's all

[cosmic nest]

hard disagree

[lone crag]

did she really

[cosmic nest]

like HARD HARD HARD disagree

[lone crag]

when i fought radiance i had no idea what was going on

at least i knew who grand mother silk was

[old compass]

GMS's silk can do so many things, meanwhile radiance is kinda just orange juice

[mortal bluff]

How? GMS is just up there, doing nothing, like, aside from mother, what even is her goal?

[lone crag]

she wants to wake up and then regain her lost power by taking hornet's strength

[brittle hill]

I don’t want him to be like bat shit difficult just like a bit more difficult than he is in the game, because he has all the final boss energy to him but his fight is a bit lack luster

[cosmic nest]

gms made the weavers who made hornet which had major significance in hollownest and pharloom and also phantom and lace, and without gms hornet wouldnt even exist and shes also the reason the citadel exists and the haunting exists

radiance just is mad she got overthrown

[lone crag]

what was radiance's goal, why did she want to kill the knight

[cosmic nest]

because the knight was trying to kill her + void and light are ancient enemies

[mortal bluff]

I’m not saying story significance necessarily, but like the actual impact of the haunting vs the infection

The infection has more personality

[lone crag]

why does the knight want to kill her

[cosmic nest]

respectfully did you play hollow knight

[brittle hill]

To stop the infection

[mortal bluff]

Revenge for her followers abandoning her/ to escape imprisonment

[rich pagoda]

I really don't look forward to redoing Courriers Rasher on subsequent playthroughs of the game
The other ingredients are easy. That one? Ughh
The anxiety the timer brings me is awful. Like, I've heard people complain about Crustnut. I don't really think it was that bad. Sands of Karak are chill and much easier than Mount Fay.

[lone crag]

i did and i didn't care about it that much

[old compass]

because the radiance is torturing their kin

[lavish apex]

courier's rasher is genuinely really fun

not very difficult if you just take the good route

[pliant musk]

Hi chat

[brittle hill]

Sup

[lavish apex]

and also wait until faydown/clawline

[cosmic nest]

the hollow knight is going through genuine layers of hell in the begg temple and the siblings cannot be reunited if not for the hollow knight being freed from radiance

[cosmic nest]

wtf even is faydown

[lavish apex]

double jump

[cosmic nest]

I mean the beast

[rich pagoda]

It's not hard but it gives me hella stress even with faydown and clawline

[pliant musk]

Double jump

[cosmic nest]

Like what even is she???

[mortal bluff]

Moth??

[cosmic nest]

I cant tell if u guys r trolling or genuinely thought i meant the double jump

[lavish apex]

idk i find it really fun

[lone crag]

i don't think radiance wanted to be sealed inside the hollow knight either

[rich pagoda]

I did that on my 2nd attempt

[lavish apex]

it makes you go fast in a game where moving fast feels very good

[cosmic nest]

this has to be ragebait

[brittle hill]

It would’ve been so much better if there wasn’t only like 1 bench throughout the whole area 😭

[lavish apex]

you said faydown, not the fayforn

[lone crag]

sorry i'm not versed in hollow knight lore very well

[cosmic nest]

oh oops

[old compass]

it is time, watch mossbag on TY

[rich pagoda]

It makes me anxious because moving fast feels like I'm not in control and I have to react faster and I have to know my route perfectly aaaa

[lavish apex]

fayforn is what the creature is called

faydown is referring to her feathers

[median fractal]

Mossbag's video covers mostly everything you need to know lol

[cosmic nest]

is the fayforn a highr being? Why is it so cold on my fay

[lavish apex]

so like seemingly she's some kind of bird moth thing

[old compass]

he gets a few things wrong though so be wary

[lavish apex]

possibly?

[cosmic nest]

Birds dont exist in hkss iirc

[lone crag]

hollow knight's characters were bland to me, i like silksong more because the people have more personality

[pliant musk]

Possibly, weavers seemed to think so

[median fractal]

Yknow I have always kinda headcanon'ed that Mt Fay snow is just some sort of mold

[lavish apex]

i mean bugs also don't have feathers

[brittle hill]

@lone crag https://youtu.be/0XDiWYFGGqY?si=1kqkUKjjIYuIUq2w

[lavish apex]

to my knowledge

[lone crag]

i will watch

[rich pagoda]

Meanwhile the sands of karak are genuinely relaxing for me to platform through

[cosmic nest]

genuinely so werid what are you miss fayforn

[mortal bluff]

Opposite for me personally… but could be 7 years bias

[old compass]

funny how I straight up didn't question why craws exist, I do learn they are also just bugs later so

[exotic dome]

hk npcs have more depth

[median fractal]

HK has less therefore more depth to each yeah

[lone crag]

i was thinking more about the main characters

[old compass]

it's possible they don't exist in a standard sense but it makes me wonder where tf do quills come from

[exotic dome]

sk doesnt really have good npcs apart from shakra, sherma and uhh maybe the caretaker

[rich pagoda]

Sands of Karak have a really nice OST too
Good music there
Much as I hate to say it, Bilewater also has nice music

[median fractal]

I think the most deep NPC we have is caretaker

[cosmic nest]

Needle

[median fractal]

Maybe Shakra too

[exotic dome]

karak ost is pretty underrated

[brittle hill]

Man I swear why does HK always kills off my favorite characters 😭 like first it was quirrel and now it’s garmond bruh

[old compass]

needle?

[exotic dome]

it has the same motifs with blasted steps too that's very cool

[rich pagoda]

Only reason I keep throwing myself further and further into Bilewater is because the music is nice

[cosmic nest]

garmond shouldnt have died i stand by this

[lone crag]

when i got to the hollow knight and radiance i just didn't know why i was there or what i was doing
it seemed like a bossfight for the sake of a bossfight

[mortal bluff]

The best character in Silksong is lace, but aside from her the others have a hard time competing with HK characters. Like, who is number 2? Sherma? If that’s the case then, Dung Defender, Quirrel, hornet (remember she’s from HK 1 first lol) and zote are all better

[brittle hill]

SAME he should’ve lived 🙏

[exotic dome]

i like bilewater

[lone crag]

i cried when garmond died

[rich pagoda]

I do too, in a weird way

[exotic dome]

except the boss, the boss is mid

[old compass]

me: oh hey zaza...wait, zaza?

[median fractal]

Me when I miss a game's entire plot:

[mortal bluff]

Someone had to take the mantle of Myla + it adds weight to the abyss attack

[lone crag]

sorry

[old compass]

ok to be fair I also missed the entirty of hollow knight's lore

[rich pagoda]

I enjoy platforming in Bilewater. It's really satisfying.

[lone crag]

i went through the entire game not understanding the point

i figured it was a hidden lore thing

[median fractal]

Its complerely normal not to understand too much but like

[cosmic nest]

disagree on this

garmond lowkey felt weak him dying was just disappointing

[old compass]

for silksong it was better since hornet actually speaks but for hollow knight it kinda

[lone crag]

did everyone else understand the radiance was the source of the infection when fighting her

[median fractal]

Maybe this is a me thing but I find it crazy if you pay attention to the lore and you still dont get why you kill the Radiance

[cosmic nest]

yes

[brittle hill]

Ik it’s basic but citadel is my favorite area, idk if it’s crazy to say but id say it’s even the best area in all HK games

[lone crag]

just me then

[mortal bluff]

Wow, you would rather have killed Zaza??! Cold…

[cosmic nest]

we should have adopted zaza

[median fractal]

I mean Hornet tells you at the exit of the Abyss that you can destroy the source

[mortal bluff]

If he had a better boss fight his death may have felt earned lol

[cosmic nest]

I played hk like 4 years ago and im sure i didnt entirely understand it but i did partly

[mortal bluff]

I’m down

[cosmic nest]

silksong needs a couple years for it to have the hk effect where everyone mostly understands the plot

[median fractal]

Silksong plot is very in your face though

[rich pagoda]

I also like Mount Fay
But I don't like how clawline heavy it is. I like my variety in platforming.

[still osprey]

man I love hollow knight silksong what a great game

[lone crag]

another thing is that because hollow knight's characters are bland i'm not extremely interested in saving them

[mortal bluff]

• dlc should clear things up

[median fractal]

If you dont get that Grand Mother Silk is the reason for the haunting threads by the end then you might be cooked

[lone crag]

oh i definitely got that

[cosmic nest]

fun fact theres actually religious symbolism in the cutscene where the abyss comes out

The portal forms an eclipse which in some religions i forgot abt signals the end

[median fractal]

And the void stuff is really notnall that complez

[mortal bluff]

Or make it worse, can’t tell

[brittle hill]

https://tenor.com/view/angry-birds-gif-12007401521632546156

[cosmic nest]

i genuinely forgot most abt mu first playthrough im 80% sure i understood this

[median fractal]

The strangest thing in Silksong main story is probably Red Memory / the 4 Hearts

But even then

[brittle hill]

I was more confused about the void being in silksong tbh

[cosmic nest]

The void is everywhere

its a layer of the earth

[lone crag]

the character i cared the most about in hollow knight was probably elderbug

[rich pagoda]

Hornet is void (kill me)

[lone crag]

i should draw lace killing elderbug

[brittle hill]

It’s like 3 rooms in og HK so I thought it was only part of hollowest lmao

[cosmic nest]

Understandable

[median fractal]

Silksong lore is sort of whack because of the Weaver and Citadel stuff but you can piece it together in your head and fill in the blanks with a good old mossbag video

[lone crag]

i'm not versed in that either

but it's not relevant to the final bosses so i was still able to understand what i was doing

[mortal bluff]

As I see it, the void is regret manifesting physically. It’s under every kingdom because where bugs live and die regret builds. I think that’s what the black silhouette in her cocoon represents, it isn’t void, but regret, sinking downwards, this regret eventually pools into a writhing mass we know as void.

[median fractal]

But yeah the Abyss is just a layer of the world. Void was more prominent in Hallownest due to PK's usage of it and it seeping up to the Ancient Basin which si right below the City of Tears

[rich pagoda]

Well maybe they should stop making horrible kingdoms with miserable people that will end up with more regrets yknow

[median fractal]

I so like this idea

[rich pagoda]

Obviously that's possible and not unrealistic

[brittle hill]

But where’s fun in that

[mortal bluff]

Bro just canceled HK 3

[rich pagoda]

Fair point lmao but you'd think that they'd realize that being a terrible kingdom will lead to the void chewing them up

[median fractal]

Well Pharloom bugs dont seem very knowledgeable on the existence of the substance

[brittle hill]

I mean they probably don’t even know it probably exists so they js keep digging down

[mortal bluff]

How could they know lol. Thats also why void particles and the kingsmolds are messed up in the pale kings room, perhaps the amount of regret he felt from failing his entire kingdom genuinely killed him

[median fractal]

Weavers did, Snail Shamans did, SOME of older Pharloom did as they built the Diving Bell but yeah

[rich pagoda]

Surely they're not that dumb...
Oh...
That's a nice reflection on society 🫠
Even if they know it'll happen anyway
If they don't know, it's probably on purpose

[median fractal]

Society is stupid lmao

[brittle hill]

Society..

https://tenor.com/view/joker-2019-joaquin-phoenix-sad-clown-gif-15378723

[median fractal]

Dude I had a conversation with my friend the other day about Dark Souls and linking the Fire and how human society could and WOULD do that and perpetuate the cycle infinitely until we're all fucked

[lone crag]

who's your favourite character in both games

[mortal bluff]

Also like the foresight idea, that we rest on a bench and then use foresight from the pale kings bloodline to path out a future of success. Which is why the pale king died on the throne, he couldn’t path out a future, and thus never got up from scrying

[rich pagoda]

That's real tho
We really would

[dreamy relic]

mister mushroom, and mister mushroom

[still osprey]

chat name a boss

[rich pagoda]

Trobbio

[mortal bluff]

Signis and gron

[still osprey]

ok thanks

[median fractal]

Roaring Knight

[mortal bluff]

Oh wait. Thats two

[lone crag]

tenna

[mortal bluff]

Ewww deltarune fans jk

[brittle hill]

I spend like 3 hours straight trying to get through that parkour section in the end

[median fractal]

screw this 😭

[rich pagoda]

I love Path of Pain.

[brittle hill]

Throw tomatoes at them

[lone crag]

i've only drawn deltarune once but i'm proud of it

[rich pagoda]

But I'm also a Celeste player who's STILL working towards Farewell Golden Berry

[still osprey]

I love Celeste

[rich pagoda]

It's one of my favourite games

[still osprey]

it's my favorite game

I have almost 3k hours on it 🔥

[rich pagoda]

I don't play modded. Just been working on vanilla challenges. I have almost every A side gold berry except 7,8 and 9. I have all C sides golded but no B sides yet iIrc

[brittle hill]

I’m lowkey a gaming unc, I mostly play games that are like 10 years old like half life, portal, generals, heroes of might and magic

[rich pagoda]

I'm working on 7A Gold
That one's pretty long but easy

Endurance challenge

[still osprey]

I only have 8BG and FWG left from vanilla goldens

but I don't want to do either of them

[rich pagoda]

I don't blame you

I just idly play through FW when I'm bored though
That's where I'm at with this game lol

[still osprey]

I've been mainly mapping

[rich pagoda]

Terrifying
Modded gameplay scares me because of how technical it gets very quickly

[still osprey]

I mean there's a lot of beginner difficulty maps out there

I've even made a beginner map along with a friend

[still osprey]

Did I cook

[rich pagoda]

Fair enough
Maybe I'll look into it more

[rich pagoda]

9/10
Definitely cooked but I see moments where some flint slate uses could have been slotted in for more damage which is always sexy. Love flint slate. I just love seeing tools used smartly

[still osprey]

yea I lowkey forgot I had tools equipped 🔥

[rich pagoda]

But the movement is beautiful

I forget about them sometimes too tbh
I think Trobbio was a boss that had me forgetting about my tools

Also sharpdart my beloved

It's so fun

[still osprey]

sharpdart is awesome

[rich pagoda]

So what if you took sharp shadow
Made it do
A lot of damage
And made it mostly on demand rather than on a shade dash recharge
That's sharpdart and it's beautiful

[still osprey]

what if you took sharp shadow and made it actually good

[rich pagoda]

Pretty much

I picked up cross stitch and was like
This is good but... I need an enemy to hit me
Sharpdart, I can just go zoom

[still osprey]

here's some forebrothers action too

[rich pagoda]

Clean + absolutely bullying them

They didn't even get to do much

[still osprey]

I think they both have good cases to be made for

Cross Stitch is instant, you press the button and it happens, but it requires the enemy to do something
Sharpdart deals slightly more damage, and you can use it whenever, but it has a windup you are completely vulnerable during

They both give a lot of iframes afterwards, but they also both waste your silk if they fail

[mortal bluff]

Hell yeah. That was sick

[strange knot]

Btw badtie you can do everything with sharpdart that you can with spear except wall bounces

[still osprey]

I love Forebrothers what a great boss

[strange knot]

Even turn arounds

[still osprey]

wait fr??

[strange knot]

Yeah

[mortal bluff]

Do you think gron not aiming directly at you is a glitch?

[still osprey]

no I think he's just meant to aim at your direction but not directly at you

[mortal bluff]

I suppose, it’s just weird that I can stand absolutely still and he’ll still miss

[still osprey]

Zango

[rich pagoda]

Fair lol
Different fit for different situations. I'll try switching them up to see if one helps more than the other with stuff

I am of the opinion that like shell shards, silk is basically free so why not use it? I felt the same way about Soul in HK. Why just collect it and not use it in case you have to heal? You don't have to heal if you're spell blasting hard enough.

[mortal bluff]

What a shit boss. This is so sad

[still osprey]

Hey listen

Zango may be the worst boss team cherry has designed

but I can't get myself to hate him

[mortal bluff]

No fucking music. Drops actually fucking nothing post quest. Like. Damn

[still osprey]

he's just a silly little guy

[mortal bluff]

2 attacks. Lame lame lame lame

[rich pagoda]

Even the Unraveled is better

[mortal bluff]

Get this man the Nosk Traitor Lord treatment NOW

[rich pagoda]

With its few attacks

[still osprey]

yea I've definitely found situations where I prefer Cross Stitch over Sharpdart, Forebrothers is a good example since Sharpdart will most likely just directly drop me into the lava on the walls

[mortal bluff]

Sea of sorrow is lifeblood related right. It’s the perfect update to give Zango a boost

[still osprey]

You know who really needs the nosk/traitor lord treatment? Clover Dancers

[mortal bluff]

Yeah. But they’re at least better than Zango

[still osprey]

I don't dislike Clover Dancers, at all, but they could be so much more than what they currently are

[mortal bluff]

Verdania seems a bit rushed. TC said it was a last minute addition, which makes sense

[rich pagoda]

I'd like if Zango moved to another area so I don't have to trek through Wormways to rock up to him like "Drugz plzzz!!!"

[mortal bluff]

Zango should grow butterfly wings in a second phase

But that’s just me yo

[still osprey]

Whatever, go my boss tier list

[mortal bluff]

Hmmmm

It’s fine

[still osprey]

Truthfully I don't actually hate any boss in the game, even Zango, there's just some that can be annoying at times and some I prefer more than others

[rich pagoda]

I love how Beastfly 2 is lower than Beastfly 1
Valid

[mortal bluff]

Sig and gron too high, cog dancer too low. Bell eater too low. Gurr too high

[still osprey]

Gurr is great after the buffs he got

[lone crag]

if i made a boss tierlist i would base it entirely on whether i like the character

[mortal bluff]

Still only has 3 moves, and they got rid of a panic phase which I always like. The floor spikes are such a nothing attack

[still osprey]

he needs more love

[mortal bluff]

Yeah, just needs a biiiit more

[still osprey]

He's nothing groundbreaking, but he's not terrible by any means

[mortal bluff]

He’s mid

Soooo mid

[still osprey]

at least he no longer stands still mid-air for an eternity tanking all the hits

[mortal bluff]

Like, if every boss was gurr quality, people wouldn’t be praising its combat

[rich pagoda]

I feel like he screams a lot and could definitely do more

[still osprey]

I think he's fine for an optional side-quest boss

better than the other Grand Hunt bosses that's for sure

[mortal bluff]

Ehhh

[still osprey]

Broodmother, Skull Tyrant, Beastfly... yea, yikes

[mortal bluff]

I almost prefer brood mother

[rich pagoda]

Like playing Monster Hunter and the monsters just don't stop roaring at you type screaming too much lol

[short trout]

He's called the outcast for a reason

[mortal bluff]

Conchflys would be my standard for optional boss, tc should hold themselves to

[rich pagoda]

"I'm trying to fight you, please shut up and let me kill you"

That's my thoughts. Could use less roar

Tbh I kinda don't like seeing the moves where a boss just sits and screams

[still osprey]

I mean 90% of the time they just indicate a phase transition

hey look 340 hours 🔥

[rich pagoda]

Yea
I don't think that the Unraveled's one does tho

He just screams for no reason pretty randomly

[unkempt dirge]

with respect it's really outdated

[still osprey]

... no...?

When does The Unravelled do that

[unkempt dirge]

are we being serious

[still osprey]

They only scream when the fight starts and when they die

[unkempt dirge]

Quirrel, old stag, hornet, cornifer

[unkempt dirge]

Cloth, zote

mantis lords, traitor lord, radiance, grimm

[rich pagoda]

In the phase where the spears start up and he throws an additional corpse in a random angle
Sometimes he'll pop up in the center and scream and do nothing

It's a real weird move

[unkempt dirge]

atp in time mossbags videos are rather outdated

and not worth watching in my opinion

they get a lot of stuff wrong

[still osprey]

when they pop up in the center they summon 2 spears next to them

[mortal bluff]

Unraveled never screams for no reason. Everything is telegraphed lol

[unkempt dirge]

personally firelord I'd say it's pretty close

[mortal bluff]

When he goes to the middle he always summons spears to his left and right after a roar

[rich pagoda]

I never noticed because the spears seem just constant so additional spears didn't get noticed

[unkempt dirge]

The issue with silksong is that there's so many characters that it makes it feel as though they're bland

since there's so few that are actually good characters

[rich pagoda]

So it seemed like a nothing burger move

[unkempt dirge]

Like shakra and bell beast are both great characters

[unkempt dirge]

I think everybody can agree on that

[mortal bluff]

Shakra actually is fantastic.

[median fractal]

eh

[mortal bluff]

And second sentinel to a lesser degree

[unkempt dirge]

I'd say shakra is about as good as Quirrel

[median fractal]

its fine. If you're a true lore enjoyer you wont' be taking 1 source for granted

[unkempt dirge]

or old stag

[mortal bluff]

So perhaps I misjudged

[median fractal]

And mossbag videos are a cool base to start from

[mortal bluff]

Ehhhhhh. Ehhhhh that’s tough

[unkempt dirge]

almost as good

Listen I know quirrel is a fan favourite, there's a reason people want him to have his own game and why he got his own comic

[mortal bluff]

Her masters grave parallels the blue lake, but damn is that a hard one to top

[unkempt dirge]

Everybody knows quirrel is beloved

[unkempt dirge]

The blue lake is a lot better then the masters grave imo

not because shakra is bad, but because quirrel is just so good

also I'd say old stag is better then bell beast by a small amount

[mortal bluff]

Dung defender is my favorite character in hollowknight, but Quirrel might be the best npc

[unkempt dirge]

Bellbeast is a pet

[mortal bluff]

Stag is better than bell beast. Yes.

[unkempt dirge]

whilst old stag is a grandma and one that is executed greatly

him having something to say for every stag station

[mortal bluff]

Having two related bosses to the beast does help tho

[rich pagoda]

Ok I see that now
But yeah, on first impressions I thought the roar didn't do anything because the spears aren't really a threat. I kinda ignored em

[unkempt dirge]

and you getting to see him remembering the stagways

and his past is just so emotional

[mortal bluff]

She should sing needolin dialog regarding each area

[unkempt dirge]

and often times talking with him, feels as though you're talking with you're grandpa about his past

And him then taking you to his stag nest and having his name change from last stag to old stag is so emotional

I'd say just as much as bell beast revealing her kids to you

[mortal bluff]

Come to think of it, why doesn’t she get needolin dialog. If anknids can get it, so can she

[rich pagoda]

Bell beast is so cute

[unkempt dirge]

Bell beast is pet done great

I will say though the silksong antagonists are lacking

like we got groal which cool

but he's just a far more boring soul tyrant

who has a lot more depth and story etched into his character

[rich pagoda]

That chose an awful place to live

[unkempt dirge]

we got the cogwork dancers which is honestly a good boss

but every other boss doesn't really get

what a lot of hollow knight bosses give

[mortal bluff]

Aside from tyrant. What other side antagonist are even in HK? Grimm? If we count him, then we should wait for dlc before we judge

[lone crag]

hi

[unkempt dirge]

traitor lord

really well done antagonist

[mortal bluff]

Last judge = traitor lord

[unkempt dirge]

gives us great backstory on the mantis tribe

[mortal bluff]

Phantoms a great one

[unkempt dirge]

Traitor lord has more going on then the last judge

[mortal bluff]

First sinner

[unkempt dirge]

we got false knight

[lone crag]

i thought she's working with hornet, her fight is a test

[spare isle]

Groal the Great

[unkempt dirge]

really well done boss

[unkempt dirge]

I already mentioned groal the great

[unkempt dirge]

well yes she's the only not bad weaver in hollow knight (other then herrah I suppose)

[lone crag]

a lot of hollow knight's characters seem the same to me
they're all likable, friendly, jolly guys

[spare isle]

i come to this chat once per day, say "Groal The Great" and then disappear until the next day

[rich pagoda]

Mantis Lords despite not truly being antagonistic
Are fun

[unkempt dirge]

that kind of showcases your lack of knowledge on hollow knight (no offence)

[spare isle]

i do not pay attention to any conversations but i almost always seem to end up sending it during a boss discussion

[unkempt dirge]

like genuinely no offence by me saying that, i don't mean to offend

[spare isle]

until we meet again

[unkempt dirge]

have a nice day

[mortal bluff]

I would count Khann as a strong antagonist with solid lore

[spare isle]

likewise

[lone crag]

if a game needs me to dig very deep to be able to like characters then i don't think that's good of the game

[unkempt dirge]

it's very surface level knowledge bro

everybody likes quirrel, he literally is a fan favourite

[lone crag]

quirrel is good

[unkempt dirge]

it's not hard to get the characters

[rich pagoda]

Welcome to most soulslike esque inspired metroidvanias

[unkempt dirge]

It seems you just didn't pay attention

people could make entire video essays on most of the hollow knight characters

[rich pagoda]

You have to dig a little bit for info

[civic island]

I know a guy that despises him

[unkempt dirge]

all you have to do is talk to them

[unkempt dirge]

that guy would get crucified

quirrel is as liked as hornet

[civic island]

You prolly know her

[rich pagoda]

What? Hollow Knight players can read?

[civic island]

She's in the chat

[unkempt dirge]

gwyn

[civic island]

It might be him though so

[lone crag]

dung defender, mato, sheo, old stag, elderbug, myla, cornifer all have similar personality

[rich pagoda]

Nah I love Quirrel

[unkempt dirge]

bro

Old stag, narratively is written and potrayed as a grandpa

[mortal bluff]

Rage bait

[unkempt dirge]

he tells you stories and information about the kingdoms past, tells you tales

he shows you what his life once was

dung defender a character that truly believed in the pale kings cause

He speaks of hallownests glory

is cheery, prideful

[rich pagoda]

DAAAA FUNDAAAHH

[unkempt dirge]

loyal

Elderbug, a depressed bug

[rich pagoda]

I love Dung Defender

[unkempt dirge]

He lived at a point where hallownest has fallen

[lone crag]

he's my favourite and i didn't realise he was depressed

maybe i am a fake fan

[unkempt dirge]

kinda seems like it

when you miss all of this

[unkempt dirge]

his entire dialogue is about him being born at hallownests decline

and him believing that dreams aren't worth going for

and his entire character arc is him getting some hope

[lone crag]

what arc

the one with the flower?

[unkempt dirge]

Throughout the entire game?

he goes from being lonely and sad to the towns emptiness

[mortal bluff]

Yeah. It’s him learning to dream again yo

[unkempt dirge]

to then being uplifted

by others showing up

[mortal bluff]

Perhaps hope does exist for this small place

[unkempt dirge]

he talks about bretta arriving again, his glee on the stag station being opened once more

him daring to go to his old friends grave again

and appreciating the knight

how do you miss that

his entire character development is him learning to be happy again

[lone crag]

i like him because he's a friendly little guy

[lone crag]

and other characters are friendly little guys

[lone crag]

i like silksong's characters because their personalities expand further past being friendly

[unkempt dirge]

We are comparing it to sk

[unkempt dirge]

................That's the case for all of the hollow knight characters wdym

[lone crag]

i remember shakra enjoys combat and playfully calls hornet a child, and risks herself to protect bellhart

sherma is a friendly little guy but we seem him scared and traumatised

[short kiln]

I didn't see the comparison at the start of it

[rich pagoda]

Do you talk to NPCs more than once? Do you return to talk to them again after quest progress?

[unkempt dirge]

By your logic sherma, garmond zaza are just friendly lil characters

[lone crag]

he is

[rich pagoda]

Because that might be your mistake here

[lone crag]

garmond is a friendly little guy but his death was more heartbreaking to me, i can't explain why

[lone crag]

it's been a while but yes

[unkempt dirge]

it does seem like just talked to them once

[unkempt dirge]

It doesn't seem like it

[rich pagoda]

You gotta talk to NPCs often
Hunt them down
Keep talking to them whenever you finish some quest or pick up a progression item

Literally anything. It's not a waste of time to check for curiosity sake
I got surprised by pinstress dialogue today

Who knows
Maybe they do have something to say

[lone crag]

maybe i didn't do it as much because hollow knight doesn't have a quest system

[unkempt dirge]

Sheo a man who was once a nailmaster, the best pupil of the great nailsage, was burned out on being a warrior and chose a more peaceful life, and is happy to teach others his skills

Mato: a man who once to make the great nailsage proud who he considers like a parental figure, and until he hones his skills enough will not talk to him, considers the knight like their own child, has a long vendetta with his brother oro

[unkempt dirge]

see this is the issue

you're not supposed to go back to different places for quests

you're supposed to do so out of your own accord

Hollow knight expects you to discover it's mechanics, story and characters

by doing everything by yourself

silksong on the other hand, has a whole quest system and has it's whole game be far more linear

That's the difference between the two, and why you know jack squat on the story or characters of hollow knight

this isn't a hollow knight problem, it's a you problem NEW

I suggest you replay hollow knight and have a new mindset

[rich pagoda]

I just thought the talking to NPCs thing was like
Common knowledge
But I play Darksouls titles where exhausting dialogue is important

[unkempt dirge]

I mean same here

[unkempt dirge]

but I got that natural tendency because of undertale

honestly I'm surprised some people just don't talk to the npcs

like what do people just look at them as quest givers

[lone crag]

i don't think i can play hollow knight again

there's no sprint

[rich pagoda]

Idk
But in a game full of rude and hostile and infected bugs
It's nice to see a "Listen" prompt from a friendly creature yknow

[mortal bluff]

Sprintmaster + dashmaster time. No going back!

[unkempt dirge]

you literally have crystal dash

and literally have dashmaster and sprintmaster as charms to make you fast

[lone crag]

crystal dash is not as convenient

[unkempt dirge]

nvm I did not see this

[unkempt dirge]

You know how hard you can be with sprintmaster and dash master

they literally have a synergy

[unkempt dirge]

tell me is this not what you were talking about when it comes to shakra

[unkempt dirge]

Being more then just friendly new

[rich pagoda]

Also HK isn't as sprawled out as Silksong
You don't really need the sprint

[unkempt dirge]

or do we have to talk about Ogrim

[unkempt dirge]

Ogrim: a bug who lived through centuries, was one of the five great knights and was one of the few we get to talk to, who was close to the Pale king, he throughout his life thought in several battles, wars and glories for his king and kingdom, has always been the biggest follower and supporter of his dear king and even though he felt as though he was falling behind his peers, made up for it for his sheer loyalty

[unkempt dirge]

not to mention that out of the five great knights he was the least liked given what sheo states

he had a very close bond with Isma, and made a sacred oath to guard her grove

[unkempt dirge]

Like seth to nyleth

[unkempt dirge]

but instead of it being by pure duty it's out of pure loyalty and friendship

he's the last of his peers, as all of the ohter five great knights are in either compromised states or dead

and the other heroes of hallownest and the sentries have all either perished or gotten infected

he is truly the last of the pale court

and whilst you spend time with him, you become by his standards a knight

and a bug that he becomes proud of

[lone crag]

it's not as charming as seeing shakra fight alongside us in battle or risk herself in protecting a town
shakra's own quest involves hornet much more, because seeing their friendship develop over the game is more natural than how the nailmasters train the knight

[unkempt dirge]

Is that not enough detail and characterisation new?

[lone crag]

i also never understood why ogrim didn't go to visit isma

he doesn't know she's dead

[unkempt dirge]

Well yes shakra is the best written character in silksong

And quirrel is on the same level if not better then shakra

And if you dare argue against it do expect a wall of text

[lone crag]

ok send it

[unkempt dirge]

Because quirrel got his own dedicated comic by team cherry for a reason

[unkempt dirge]

actually am I even allowed to send something that big

[lone crag]

it's not just the side characters as well, it's the main characters
both the final bosses of hollow knight were spectacle without depth

[unkempt dirge]

nvm, just accept the fact quirrel is one of the best written characters in hollow knight please

[unkempt dirge]

You're being deadass

you do realize the Pale king is the most developed character in hollow knight right

[lone crag]

i don't really like how you ask me whether i'm serious each time

[unkempt dirge]

lace is far less developed then the hollow knight

[unkempt dirge]

I have a tendency to do that sorry

[lone crag]

so about quirrel, other than being a friendly guy who helps you, his arc is about trying to recover his memory, he's unable to, so he appreciates only seeing the wonders of hallownest

but hollow knight is about facing the past

quirrel doesn't get to face the past

[unkempt dirge]

he does

he literally does face the past

he get's the relive his life once more in a fresh clear slate

he accompanies and journies with you, throughout the entire game

he tells you about the nailsmith

sits next to you in a safe spot in the capital heart of hallownest

climbs alongside you to the highest point of the crystal peaks

[lone crag]

how come the hollow knight develops more than lace? we only see them for a few minutes

[unkempt dirge]

We literally have him be the only ccharacter in the hollow knight game that fights alongside you

also fellow undertale fan

[vestal igloo]

ahem did you world revolving?

[lone crag]

i don't really like how they implemented it

usualy i don't care about bosses but uumuu is painful

[unkempt dirge]

it's about it's tragic past

Lace is petty clear bones, she was made as a eternal child

and was neglected by her own creator/mother

and does an act out of spite against her mother by saving hornet

[still osprey]

Cloth?

[lone crag]

i liked that

[unkempt dirge]

..How could I forget cloth

[unkempt dirge]

And the hollow knight was the vessel that was burdened with the entire weight of the world

it was meant to be the perfect vessel, born pure, no emotion, no will, no mind

[lone crag]

i thought that was the pale king?

[unkempt dirge]

yet it grew to love it's dad

making it impure

[lone crag]

is this shown in the game

[unkempt dirge]

path of pain

literally is shown to be the pale kings most hidden secret

[lone crag]

having to play though the most difficult platforming section to flesh out a major character isn't great

[unkempt dirge]

that he sealed away a quite literal metaphysical memory

[unkempt dirge]

you do realize that it's literally called the path of pain

and the entire point of it, is that it's a painful memory for the Pale king right

[lone crag]

when i fight the hollow knight i want to know who they are, what they've suffered for

they're clearly suffering given how they stab themself

[unkempt dirge]

yeah and going to the surface takes the hardest platforming challange in silksong

[lone crag]

but their intricacies are vague and spread out all over the game

[unkempt dirge]

silksong literally has what silksong had with lore hidden by walls and challanges

across the entire game

[lone crag]

maybe not all over the game

[unkempt dirge]

hollow knight at least made it's timeline clear, even with every memory and detail in silksong, we still have a pretty bad timeline of everything

[lone crag]

they're only referred to three times i think

[unkempt dirge]

yes all over the game

[solemn lotus]

What’s the biggest Silksong mod rn in your opinion

[unkempt dirge]

silksong has secret walls

in every single corner, that it's annoying

hollow knight wasn't as insane as silksong

to hide some hidden detail about the chef of the citadels kitchen

[worldly valve]

biggest in what sense

[unkempt dirge]

or have some secret information on the second sentinel being another automaton powered by a silkfly

[solemn lotus]

Content wise

[unkempt dirge]

I doubt you ven figured out what silkflies were without looking it up news

[lone crag]

lace might not have a tragic backstory but her attitude and her goal changing made her more captivating than the hollow knight

[unkempt dirge]

It's already fleshed out by the birthplace cutscene?

we literally get to see the hollow knight kill itself to help us

[lone crag]

that was focused on the knight and the pale king methinks

[unkempt dirge]

Dude there's not a single silksong boss that has the boss actively trying to kill themself

[unkempt dirge]

that was on the hollow knight bro

the knight isn't hollow

[lone crag]

the hollow knight is static and doesn't do much on their own

[unkempt dirge]

we're literally one of the discarded vessels

[unkempt dirge]

grimm literally states this

[lone crag]

technically lace wants to die during act 3

[unkempt dirge]

does she actively stab herself in lost lace

[lone crag]

and plunge the kingdom into death as well

[unkempt dirge]

and pant on the ground

[lone crag]

i liked seeing the void fall off her on each stagger

[unkempt dirge]

As her body is twisted and mutilated