sk-discussion

[light swan]

have you fought any superbosses (unrelated to wrinkled towels message)

[opal pelican]

and we also got more stuff about the ||soul||

[orchid spruce]

[light swan]

oh you do?

[strange knot]

I didn’t play anything past 2nd chapter

[hybrid flare]

...yeah

Are there any superbosses in mio

[opal pelican]

https://tenor.com/view/ishowspeed-talking-ben-talking-tom-gif-8188696465196440389

[light swan]

did you get spoiled on it or did you find out in the game

[opaque sigil]

What even qualifies as a superboss, ||sv?||

[opal pelican]

then whhy tf are you complaining about writing

[light swan]

id say so, theyre clearly really damn hard for the sake of it

[hybrid flare]

Its after sun and violin which is my favourite fight, which i obviously murdered in cold blood

[untold dune]

i guess it would be a boss thats purposefully way harder than the rest

[light swan]

alr so you have

[strange knot]

I jst don’t like how ||nothing happened after that moment with soul and kris which makes everything too confusing for me||

[cedar trench]

superbosses are by definition extremely strong and they are usually hidden from the main path

[hybrid flare]

Or usually they're obstacles not meant to be beaten

[cedar trench]

first sinner is a superboss in theory but she's limp dick easy

[graceful oyster]

Since ||speep's|| internal name is philosopher I might start calling him phil

[hybrid flare]

Idk man, it took me like what, 20-30 attempts for Sun and violin at base damage

[light swan]

anyway, youd know that ||they replace the voices every (some amount) of years with new incumbents to avoid decay, or deprecate in the game's terminology|| MAJOR MIO SPOILERS

[untold dune]

savage beastfly is a superboss

[cedar trench]

watcher at the edge should've been a superboss but he just kirby up specials you

[orchid spruce]

||why philosopher lmao|| (mio)

[strange knot]

Zango and lugoli are super bosses

[light swan]

and because of ||lura, they stopped doing that and thats why all of the events of the game take place|| MAJOR MIO SPOILERS

[hybrid flare]

What do they do with remnants and what's the selection proccess for that

[cedar trench]

superbosses are difficult first, secret second

[light swan]

||idk the selection process, the remnants are something you have to discover for yourself if you dont already know it||

[cedar trench]

if a boss isn't designed to be difficult it's not a superboss

[orchid spruce]

ok discover it yourself

i won't spoil it for u nubbie

[hybrid flare]

||So instead they let the pearls minds rot away||

crazy stuff

[light swan]

yes

[graceful oyster]

Ah yes, spoilers

[strange knot]

But you just called fs a super boss but she is easy

[hybrid flare]

My boy liho talks like a caveman

[light swan]

also, spoilers lol

[orchid spruce]

yues, spoiler nuke in #sk-discussion pls

[strange knot]

I love spoilers

[hybrid flare]

Why not clanker

[light swan]

and thats why ||the voices are so irrational, noden killed everyone, halyn is a power creep in denial, amytis no longer cares about anything, and liho is infinitely depressed|| MAJOR MAJOR MIO SPOILERS

[hybrid flare]

Clankers have very obvious personalities in the game no clue why that bit was necessary

[hybrid flare]

||I lwk thought the noden part was something of a foreshadowing towards shii being the fb but eh|| spoilers for mio

That's an absolutely dumb move from the travellers part but im not surprised

[light swan]

i mean it was never intended to go wrong

||if things went according to plan, it wouldve been perfect|| mio spoilers

[timid sky]

Who the hell is ||speep|| in mio
I have ~95% and never found a ||speep||

[light swan]

||spine keeper|| MAJOR MAJOR MIO SPOILERS

[timid sky]

Oh ok mb

[hybrid flare]

They doomed themselves because of a single causality

[timid sky]

Why not call him by legal name

[light swan]

yes

[orchid spruce]

because we can't spoiler nuke people in #sk-discussion

it's common courtesy

[hybrid flare]

||While uh... the selection proccess itself is unknown but i'd imagine its involuntary, and plenty of complex mechanisms exist|| mio spoilers

who'd be willing to be stuffed into an animatronic

[timid sky]

And ||asma is dead||

[light swan]

no thats not why unfortunately

[hybrid flare]

Asthma's chamber collapsed on her i think

[light swan]

||precisely, but the thing is that the voices were revered as gods so people would want to be voices i think|| MAJOR MIO SPOILERS

[orchid spruce]

||asma gave mio her voice at the beginning|| (MIO MAJOR SPOILERS)

[light swan]

also not true

[hybrid flare]

Actually nvm there's a reason as to why mid is the keeper

[lavish apex]

what's yalls top bosses in any game

[orchid spruce]

||so that mio can save the khlia|| (MIO MAJOR SPOILERS)

[hybrid flare]

Yeah but like... so irrational, what a miserable existence

[orchid spruce]

comon now egg

[lavish apex]

like not just metroidvanias

[light swan]

it really is fuckin miserable

[lavish apex]

just like top 10 in anything

[orchid spruce]

still egg

[light swan]

basically my current list but put seraphic ceratinia somewhere

[strange knot]

Dunno probably like ender dracon from Minecraft

[hybrid flare]

||1. Orphan of kos
2. Ludwig
3. Edong
4. Gehrman
5. Maria|| Spoilers for bloodborne and nine sols ig

[exotic cedar]

Idk i don't play much games

[orchid spruce]

because aside from metroidvanias, i've only played survival/resource management/farming games

[lavish apex]

slopborne

[exotic cedar]

But egg is prob my fav

[orchid spruce]

yeah, egg

[light swan]

and then now theyre ||trapped there for eternity|| MIO SPOILERS

[charred tiger]

AWOOO !

[vale whale]

think somebody likes bloodbornr

[hybrid flare]

mhmmmm

[timid sky]

How many points

[exotic cedar]

Ha ha ha 67 ha ha ga

[worldly umbra]

the temple guy from ducktales game

[charred tiger]

43

[lavish apex]

fascinating

[orchid spruce]

when will nine sols go on sale on switch comon

[charred tiger]

not funny

[orchid spruce]

https://tenor.com/view/mr-bean-esperando-mr-bean-waiting-gif-4513135960021631723

[worldly umbra]

incan king

that was his name

[exotic cedar]

That's why i keep saying it

[hybrid flare]

Kinda stupid if you ask me but wtv the writing does with it

[rocky jolt]

heh six seven

[charred tiger]

fuck you too

[worldly umbra]

ewww fr**ch

[charred tiger]

stfu

[light swan]

i mean i still think it ||makes sense that theyre humans, as humans are what they trust most and have the most self-decision-making, and the incumbent system would be flawless if lura never happened|| MAJOR MIO SPOILERS

[timid sky]

||any particular reason for why deciever looks so much like an overseer, but evolved or smth|| mio spoiler

[hybrid flare]

Their mind capacity is very limited compared to clankers doe

[light swan]

which is why ||incumbents exist|| MIO SPOILERS

[vale whale]

whats the 25th letter of the alphabet rq

[strange knot]

||Mio is a game and it’s probably good from what I’ve heard|| MAJOR MIO SPOILERS

[light swan]

4

[hybrid flare]

||"flawless" as if the ones that eventually get tossed away don't rot there||

[lavish apex]

for me it's probably something like

1. pure vessel
2. ||the roaring knight|| deltarune chapter 3 final boss
3. ||sigrun|| gow 2018 endgame superboss
4. karmelita
5. ||jena anderson|| astral chain lategame boss

[hybrid flare]

For calculations, managing and stuff i meant

[vale whale]

someone help

[lavish apex]

this is hard actually

[orchid spruce]

you certainly have an acquired taste

[light swan]

||managing and stuff would be better with humans rather than robots, and the voices arent the ones that do calculations|| MAJOR MIO SPOILERS

[lavish apex]

how many of these have you touched

[orchid spruce]

2

[hybrid flare]

I mean not at all? js imagine all you need to do as a pearl

[light swan]

||overseers are connections for the spine, deciever is a keeper and the ultimate overseer|| MIO SPOILERS

[lavish apex]

i don't get the pv hate from you

[strange knot]

Y

[median fractal]

evil papyrus is such a good fight man

[orchid spruce]

since when do i hate pv

[vale whale]

because we're playing bendy

[orchid spruce]

i'm moreso talking about the rpg bosses being so high

[lavish apex]

yeah

[orchid spruce]

usually i don't think they're all that great

[exotic cedar]

https://tenor.com/view/undertale-i'm-not-falling-i'm-not-falling-for-that-shit-im-not-falling-papyrus-exe-gif-14032387206560753400

[light swan]

||they have robots doing the calculations for them || MIO SPOILERS

[opaque sigil]

||Voices did have some decision making power (see the planetary report where the eye rejects a planet)||

[lavish apex]

literally just one of them?

[light swan]

they definitely do

[hybrid flare]

Managing i meant

[lavish apex]

the rest of those are all action games

[orchid spruce]

oh i didn't know

[strange knot]

Lwk ||badeline|| from Celeste is my top 1 boss

[orchid spruce]

you see i play 3 games in total

[timid sky]

Ah ok
Didnt know that ||overseers are connections to the spine|| but ig it makes sense due to ||how much connections radiate from nexus to other overseers||

[hybrid flare]

it would likely also require some form of rest i'd imagine them going insane in less than 2 decades

[lavish apex]

this also isn't like

[light swan]

id rather have ||healthy real minds managing my spaceship rather than ai overlords sorry lol|| MAJOR MIO SPOILERS

[lavish apex]

just taking gameplay into account

[strange knot]

||chapter 6 badeline ofc||

[hybrid flare]

"Healthy" up to a point that they aren't

[light swan]

||theres obviously preservation complexities involved but thats why incumbents exist|| MAJOR MIO SPOILERS

[lavish apex]

it's also spectacle and story impact kinda
my top 10 definitely would have more rpg fights in there because of that

[light swan]

which si why ||incumbents|| exist

[opaque sigil]

It’s almost like ||they used to do something to manage that lol||

[hybrid flare]

do we know the time period

[light swan]

yes

[hybrid flare]

that's still piling up corpses either way lmfao

[light swan]

its not very ethical

[lavish apex]

like if you removed all the aura and the sick intro and the story impact and the banger music from DELTARUNE ||the knight|| they wouldn't be there

[hybrid flare]

wow fr?

nor efficient but ig humans be humans

[lavish apex]

but they have all of that and the best gameplay that game has to offer right now

in an rpg combat system i happen to enjoy quite a lot

[light swan]

xenoblade 3 has my favorite combbat system of all time by far but i think thats mostly based on the combat and not the quality of the bosses

but the quality of the bosses is still peak which is why seraphic ceratinia is the goat

id put seraphic ceratinia right under second sentinel tbh

or maybe right over second sentinel

[vale whale]

pragmata has good gameplay

[lavish apex]

i think ||zanza|| XC1 would be up there for me

[opaque sigil]

Idk what the whole list would be but demise from skyward sword Sam from mgr and Ashera from fe10 will be on it

[light swan]

i would put N up there but i havent played N enough

[lavish apex]

it's hard to name a boss in like the entirety of xc that stands out a lot in the gameplay department

in a particular good way

[light swan]

final boss of xc2 is also fucking good

i can still hear the PROMETHEUSSSSSS

[lavish apex]

because most of the combat in those games is purely player driven

[orchid spruce]

huh nine sols sales on switch are very irregular compared to steam

[opaque sigil]

XC fights feel mostly like punching bags the player facing mechanics are just so good

[lavish apex]

yeah

[light swan]

thats why i like N and seraphic ceratinia

N xc3fr specifically, i dont remember how he was in base game

seraphic ceratinia feels like it has the most interaction with the player in the player driven compartment

[orchid spruce]

nvm i think it'll be soon on sale next month at worst

[opaque sigil]

FR was good in that department with a’s talent art being a strong reactive tool

[lavish apex]

||jin and malos|| XC2 would also be up there

[light swan]

since it does things like disabling chain attacks, huge aoe in sensational vortex creating movement, lots more movement with celestial dash

[lavish apex]

for the story

[lavish apex]

this is true

[light swan]

while specifically forcing advanced combat strats to counteract things like ultra playbite

[lavish apex]

pharsis would be pretty cool if x didn't have the worst combat balancing of all time

[light swan]

ive never fought telethia but from what i heard telethia would probably be mny favorite tbh

but i do like X combat much less than 3

[vale whale]

i dont know my faviuritr bosses of all tome

[light swan]

also, seraphic ceratinia goes up to lvl200, slap on hard mode and it becomes actually a challenge tbh

[vale whale]

uhhhhhhh

[lavish apex]

2 has good superbosses as well

[vale whale]

i cant really choose a favourite

[lavish apex]

partly because 2 combat slaps

[light swan]

i dont know them that well tbh

like all i know is ckk is a fat fuck who has al ot of hp like gradivus

[vale whale]

thematically the snake vs big boss fight in mg2 is probably my favourite or the ||eigong|| fight in nine sold

[orchid spruce]

i understand Alpre now

[lavish apex]

3's are solid i think but i only remember two of them

[light swan]

and tk is just oneshot material

[light swan]

they all have something that stands out to me

[vale whale]

i can say mg2 snake vs bb is my favourite boss gameplay wise when theyfucjing REMAKE MG2

[light swan]

except for levialord empireo

[vale whale]

||true eight|| and ||gigantic bot|| in pragmata are fun

[lavish apex]

that's the other one i remember but i forgot the name

[light swan]

focus on agility, focus on block rate, focus on movement & invincibility, and seraphic ceratinia is just the goat

[lavish apex]

i can't even envision the other ones weirdly

idk why when i know most 1 and 2 superbosses

[light swan]

you hardly play xc3

i dont know 1 superbosses personally

[lavish apex]

i put 250 hours into the video game

[light swan]

except for fogweller abassy but thats because of xc3fr

[lavish apex]

idk if that's hardly playing

[light swan]

you need 5000 to be considered a real xenoblade fan....

[orchid spruce]

i should care about ori2's story

[light swan]

the only xc2 superbosses i remembe are ckk and tk idk if theres more

[lavish apex]

i know i did all of them because sc doesn't appear until you do iirc

[lavish apex]

ophion

[light swan]

oh right

wtf does ophion even do

[lavish apex]

pernicious benf

[vale whale]

ehhh

[light swan]

who tf is that

[exotic cedar]

Wha

[vale whale]

trust me it's an alright story but it's not exactly remarkable

[light swan]

i personally grinded all of them (except for levialord) so i know them pretty well lol

[vale whale]

you dont need to pay a ton of attention to understand

[lavish apex]

the robots in uh

[vale whale]

the ending is really sad though

[lavish apex]

the ||jin and amalthus arena||

[light swan]

oh yea there was a robot in the arsenal place

[vale whale]

they should make a definitive edition one day ||where ori survives||

[lavish apex]

orion

[light swan]

who ???

[light swan]

is that the dumb morytha driver

[lavish apex]

temperantia crater guy

[lavish apex]

yes

[orchid spruce]

[light swan]

oh yea

[orchid spruce]

i didn't need to know that frankly but it's ok, i can live with it

[light swan]

bullytitan kurodil

[orchid spruce]

i feel like this story is gonna be super forgettable anyways

[light swan]

go in with an open mind and try to enjoy it

[orchid spruce]

yes sir

[light swan]

yea im surprised theres so many superbosses in 2 and i only remember 2 of them lol

in 1 i only remember 1 😔

[lavish apex]

1 has ||belgazas, abaasy, marcus, daedala and arsene||

[exotic cedar]

I DONT care about the writing i DON'T care about the story if i enjoy a game I LIKE IT

[light swan]

nvm i remember 2 of these now

i assume the first one is a big purple mant ories

[orchid spruce]

3 minutes of slice of life footage to sympathy farm

[lavish apex]

yeah sorta

[orchid spruce]

can we get to the good part

[light swan]

i vaguely remember the name marcus

[orchid spruce]

when will one of them die

[light swan]

Final Marcus or smth

[hybrid flare]

nine sols did this btw

but it somewhat worked when it was ||beheading time||

[orchid spruce]

it had intrigue and mystery

[hybrid flare]

ooga booga humans do human shit

[orchid spruce]

also, egg aurafarming in the first cutscene

carries hard

[hybrid flare]

thats not slice of life is it

also she looks horrendous in that cutscene oh dear

[lavish apex]

also in temperantia but no benf is different

[hybrid flare]

they gave her 439 more years

[light swan]

no its because tyrannotitan is a tyrant while benf is a bully

[orchid spruce]

i wish i was a kawaii vtuber so i can "Aww" through this

open mind, open mind

i have to open my mind

[light swan]

aint no way you need to tell yourself that like a breathing exercise 😭

[orchid spruce]

🥹

this graphics is FRYING my laptop wtf

[light swan]

my teacher is playing a song that sounds like washing machine

[exotic dome]

send invite link

[lavish apex]

cskk in 2 is the real bullyable one

[rocky jolt]

its a private server just for me :p

[light swan]

I can feel the wind beneath my toes

honestly the only reason why i even remember any superbosses is because enel fights them lol

[vale whale]

here is the image make the server yourself

[rocky jolt]

one piece reference

[exotic dome]

cold war reference

[jagged ledge]

Bro what

[hybrid flare]

||vlad ||mentioned

[orchid spruce]

ok this is honestly pretty endearing

[vale whale]

they wanted the server link i let them make the server

[hybrid flare]

such a bum with such a cool ass name how could they

[orchid spruce]

i think i'll like this game

that's only if it doesn't fry my laptop

[lavish apex]

ass fight

[orchid spruce]

this shit is so ass

[lavish apex]

(still better than the worst bosses in skong)

[hybrid flare]

vlad or palestag

[orchid spruce]

palestag

[exotic dome]

washing machine on his way to be the worst boss in terms of both gameplay and lore

[orchid spruce]

palestag's only crime is being boring

[hybrid flare]

lwk palestags worse

[lavish apex]

palestag yeah

[orchid spruce]

and a bit annoying

[hybrid flare]

palestag cursed my lineage

[lavish apex]

unravelled is worse

[orchid spruce]

unravelled is ok

[lavish apex]

dogshit

[hybrid flare]

unravelled overhated

[exotic dome]

palestag ate my cat

[tight meadow]

May 23rd trust me guys

[amber grove]

Lowkey unravelled has been the most annoying boss so far

[hybrid flare]

unravelled's only crime is pogo immunity and the stupid hitbox

[lavish apex]

i think it's the most anti-fun fight in the entire game

[amber grove]

And the huge health

[hybrid flare]

palestag wants you to use clawline but blocks out any usage of it

[exotic dome]

sad that whiteward has a shitty boss

[hybrid flare]

unrav is lwk c tier

[amber grove]

First sinner is peak tho enjoyed it and it was pretty easy

[lavish apex]

palestag i've only ever fought once because verdania is slop

and i don't remember it very much

i know it looks boring

[exotic dome]

it's no eyes without aura

and no eyes is ass so

[hybrid flare]

and worse cuz the little shitty projectiles linger in place for a while and pstag tps almost instantly

[amber grove]

Ym like creepy?

[lavish apex]

beastfly 2 is the worst instance of content reuse team cherry has done

[exotic dome]

yeah, her ambience is very unique

[timid sky]

||You have to get lucky with the rock spawns otherwise you're screwed||

[graceful oyster]

Have you seen the abyss

[lavish apex]

tarmites are awful dogshit enemies and beastfly is just not a good fight

[timid sky]

Mostly screwed atlesst

[exotic dome]

it also goes out of your screen

[hybrid flare]

Literally not true

[exotic dome]

yeah abyss reuse is worse

[amber grove]

Beastfly 2 was atleast okok, I had fully upgraded tool dmg by that point so iirc threefold pin one shotted the mobs it spawned

[hybrid flare]

Abyss is kinda bad i agree

[lavish apex]

what would you say is worse

[opaque sigil]

I mean it’s pretty bad but there are plenty of real stinkers

[exotic dome]

not that abyss as an area is that bad, whole idea of reusing void is bad

[hybrid flare]

beastfly 2 would've been alright if tarmites didnt zone you out more than the boss already does

[amber grove]

Magma bell?

[lavish apex]

pantheon 5?

[hybrid flare]

We got to see it be actually threatening but there's zero buildup and the shaman twist is kinda shallow

[opaque sigil]

Abyss sucks ass as an area there’s like nothing there and it disables beastling call so if you want to leave LL to do literally anything else it takes eons

[lavish apex]

yeah

[orchid spruce]

hk abyss mogs

[hybrid flare]

It has a peak boss n a neat-ish ability

unlike verdania

[amber grove]

Im just trying to wrap up everything in act 2 before starting act 3

[hybrid flare]

verdania has unironically nothing

[strange knot]

Verdania suckass

[lavish apex]

there are but i don't think there's any other fight that is as actively miserable and boring

[exotic dome]

vibes are unique so i would say it's c tier

[hybrid flare]

palestag

[lavish apex]

palestag has no health

[hybrid flare]

absrad is the worst content recycling from tc because there's barely any noticeable changes

[wind mulch]

those abyss giraffes are more eligible to be called higher beings than gms

[lavish apex]

beastfly 2 is close but unravelled actually has aura

[orchid spruce]

LMAO

[lavish apex]

which is why i'd still say i like it more

[hybrid flare]

you cant reach pstag

[strange knot]

Holy truth nuke lmao

[exotic dome]

gargant glooms are probably the worst enemy btw

[hybrid flare]

shit squits in ducts:

[exotic dome]

so bad that tc added an extra passage below them to avoid them

[strange knot]

I’m sorry but those annoying ass verdania enemies exist

[lavish apex]

the speed is a big one

[opaque sigil]

Wraiths are so annoying but you barely have to deal with them so

[rocky jolt]

oh its kinda like stalking devouts

[hybrid flare]

That's as lazy as it gets

if theres more than a single wraith in a room it automatically removes all of the fun

[exotic dome]

but i admire the design of them because they really look like they belong to nowhere but the abyss

[lavish apex]

wraiths completely ruin the experience of the mist in act 1

[graceful oyster]

This would be fair if absrad wasn't just actually better

[exotic dome]

valid opinion

[hybrid flare]

silksong has PEAK enemies but also some stinkers

[light swan]

The pizza’s here

[hybrid flare]

"better"

[exotic dome]

it's better with the third phase imo

[wind mulch]

those things that exist purely to jumpscare you in putrified ducts, abyss giraffes and those mist ghosts are the worst enemies in any game ever

[hybrid flare]

literally faster and an upgrade to her most annoying attack

[orchid spruce]

silksong enemy design is honestly okay, like a 6

[hybrid flare]

The red charged roidquitoes in MIO:

[hybrid flare]

fym its literally so good

[light swan]

elecogs are peak

[orchid spruce]

[hybrid flare]

thank god these things are present in like one area 2 instances

[graceful oyster]

Its fine to have gripes with the boss itself but the content reuse isn't the issue

[lavish apex]

there are a lot of really good enemies in silksong but unfortunately there's also a lot of incredibly annoying abysmal dogshit

[orchid spruce]

how many times have you 100% silksong, nubbie

[hybrid flare]

And yk, zero changes to her design n stuff

[orchid spruce]

i honestly think i played silksong more than you

[light swan]

i do think mio enemies are really cool in tha they complement mio really wel

[hybrid flare]

Like 2, i absolutely adore the gauntlets n stuff

[orchid spruce]

yues, i played silksong way more than you

[lavish apex]

nuke flintflame flyers

kill all of them forever

[exotic dome]

silksong enemy design is pretty good

[hybrid flare]

Ima hop on a replay and js confirm what i've been saying ever since lmao

[light swan]

that’s why i enjoy mio gauntlets but not siljsong gauntlets

[hybrid flare]

doesnt change anything at all

[wind mulch]

the enemy design is overall really good there are just a few that make me want to take a cheese-grater to my own face

[orchid spruce]

yes, replay the game, nubbie

[graceful oyster]

Mio modders pleeeeease make a mod that replaces all icers and thricers with elecogggs

[hybrid flare]

Mio's enemies are ultra forgettable

[lavish apex]

yeah exactly

[wind mulch]

but theyre rare

[light swan]

yes please

[orchid spruce]

to see how it actually is

[lavish apex]

dude fucking underlofts

[light swan]

no one will forget the terror of the ledge

[orchid spruce]

you're just being forgetful

[light swan]

or bulbasaurs

[lavish apex]

microwaved dogshit enemy

[hybrid flare]

No, ill lwk prove my point again

[exotic dome]

i liked most of the gauntlets in sk, i HATE the underworks and act 3 gauntlets

[hybrid flare]

those are ASS holy shit

[orchid spruce]

i 100% sk 4 times and hitless'd a bunch of bosses as well

[hybrid flare]

i can mostly run past them but holy fuck

[hybrid flare]

I hitless'd the entire act 3 roster

[wind mulch]

i think silksong enemies that throw projectiles have been coded with some kind of magical foresight

[hybrid flare]

im waiting for actual scaling updates to do the rest

[orchid spruce]

ew why even do belleater

[exotic dome]

i got that achievement in the late game

[lavish apex]

silksong enemies have the problem of like

[hybrid flare]

lwk very easy if yk what youre doing

[lavish apex]

for every banger there's one that is just Awful

[hybrid flare]

belleater with witch

[wind mulch]

silksong enemies have the issue of being better than me at the game

[lavish apex]

and then a bunch that are just like ok whatever

[hybrid flare]

choristor my beloved

choristor mogs everyone

[exotic dome]

some enemies throw projectiles near you instead of at you and you get hit by them while trying to dodge

[lavish apex]

choristors are great

[graceful oyster]

Bell eater gets shredded into pieces by witch

[hybrid flare]

grand reeds are also very fun

[lavish apex]

one of my favorites

[hybrid flare]

most citadel enemies are great

[wind mulch]

are you sure its not prescience

[strange knot]

I love reeds

[hybrid flare]

the enemies actually force you to use the mechanics given

[trim wedge]

citadel itself is so peak

[lavish apex]

choral chambers vaults and whiteward pretty much have all good enemies if you exclude clawmaidens and those shitters with the annoying voice in vaults that come out in act 3

[exotic dome]

drizznits do that iirc

[opaque sigil]

Tbf I have to respect an attempt being made, it’s more than most mvs can say

[lavish apex]

and the bell throwers

[ornate perch]

Are we deadass we’ve been waiting 7 years for the game to release

[strange knot]

They are really fun to fight but sometimes hitboxes feel unfair

[ornate perch]

/j

[exotic dome]

clawmaidens are cool because they have their control room

[trim wedge]

I kinda loved the high halls gauntlet mostly cz of the citadel enemies and banger music

[hybrid flare]

pilgrims are mostly ok to good

[strange knot]

I waited like a half a year for it

[hybrid flare]

the craws are also neat

bellhart enemies dont do anything

[lavish apex]

usually most enemies are just in the ok whatever category

[charred tiger]

would you kick him for 2 hundred dollars
i would

[strange knot]

Craws fucking suck

[hybrid flare]

shellwood enemies are mostly good too

[exotic dome]

and they have low hp, it might sound crazy but i like their design

[hybrid flare]

quicktime event when you see a knife towards you press attack

[graceful oyster]

They like being hit, I'd do it for free

[opaque sigil]

Silksong sadly will never have the best mv mob combat because you can’t juggle enemies around and bounce them off the terrain

[sharp slate]

i actually dont mind the claw madians tbh they force you to play aggressive

[charred tiger]

hornet pets them

[strange knot]

Possibly most rng enemy ever

[charred tiger]

the old flea

[strange knot]

I’m not even talking about squat craws

[lavish apex]

like that's hk and mio i would say
afterimage they're all pushovers unless you're on advanced where some of them become pretty annoying

[hybrid flare]

Some enemies do force you to adapt to the combat instead of dying from 3 m1s but wtv

[lavish apex]

blasphemous 1 they're ok whatever

[exotic dome]

i would pay to kick them

[lavish apex]

blasphemous 2 has some decent ones and some ass ones

[hybrid flare]

Mio's enemies dissapointed me honestly

[hybrid flare]

Santa vigilia enemies

[lavish apex]

they all suck

[exotic dome]

santa vigilia enemies are ass

[trim wedge]

one of my friends played it, said the movement and combat isn't all that smooth

[opaque sigil]

I’m vaguely hinting about poptlc

[lavish apex]

the fucking lantern guys are terrible

[exotic dome]

dlc brings down the games quality

[graceful oyster]

If 9s was a mvania I'd say the enemies are pretty fun

[hybrid flare]

True

[exotic dome]

9s enemies are good too

[hybrid flare]

the minibosses are quite good

[graceful oyster]

Crimson spear guys are goated

[orchid spruce]

it is a metroidvania btw grynne

[hybrid flare]

Some of them are wayyy over the top but yeah 9s enemies are solid

[graceful oyster]

I know, it's mostly a joke

[hybrid flare]

nah mausoleum is goated fym

[strange knot]

Clueless

[graceful oyster]

Mostly

[hybrid flare]

and santa vigilia platforming is also fun

[orchid spruce]

[trim wedge]

I was playing 9s but honestly the abundance of snap attacks kinda turned me off

I will continue soon ig

[graceful oyster]

Snap attacks?

[lavish apex]

icebound mausoleum is cool

[opaque sigil]

I do actually think mio combat is generally pretty good but it’s more about enemy placements than them being cool or having good mechanics in a vacuum

[trim wedge]

attacks with long windups and instant delivery

[hybrid flare]

There's not much variety of them

[orchid spruce]

I can vouch for Mio combat being excellent 👌

[hybrid flare]

haven enemies are a nothingburger

[orchid spruce]

[strange knot]

Btw is it intentional to use ||talisman as an air dash|| in nine slops

[exotic dome]

enemies are slop in there (half of them exist in other dlc area too)

[graceful oyster]

It's a parry game, they have to telegraph stuff and hit if you didn't catch it

[orchid spruce]

yues

[lavish apex]

santa vigilia has cool platforming but the gauntlets suck

[hybrid flare]

the crimson rain whip dudes being there for wtv reason

[trim wedge]

ik, I ain't saying it's bad or anything

I will continue sometime

[graceful oyster]

Okay

[hybrid flare]

b2 in general aint that great

[graceful oyster]

[exotic dome]

i liked the gameplay more overall

[hybrid flare]

it falls off midgame

[orchid spruce]

b2 is like the greatest mid game of all time

it's both mid and pretty good

[hybrid flare]

you ranked it an 8 its not an 8

[trim wedge]

tho ig Goumang fight wasn't fun, I went in with zero upgrades and the duo kinda isn't very well made

[hybrid flare]

8 isnt mid

[orchid spruce]

it moved down over time

[trim wedge]

that's mostly the reason I felt exhausted from it

[orchid spruce]

also, that scoring is arbitrary

[hybrid flare]

every boss from midgame onwards sucks

[exotic dome]

based username 🙏

[graceful oyster]

Widely considered the worst main boss iirc

[orchid spruce]

i replaced it with emotions

[hybrid flare]

ig

[opal pelican]

hollow silk: KnightSong

[trim wedge]

hell yes someone gets it

[orchid spruce]

like this

[hybrid flare]

theres also an expecially egregious boss in two moons

[exotic dome]

it's my fav boss in any game

[trim wedge]

I personally liked silksong a lot more than HK

[hybrid flare]

Same

[trim wedge]

valid, he's in my top 5 asw

[lavish apex]

i like skarr stalkers

[orchid spruce]

nice

[light swan]

skarr stalkers are the best

[hybrid flare]

Skarr enemies are also generally great

except the skarr crawler thingies that dont do anything

[exotic dome]

that boss is so bad holy shit

[hybrid flare]

OFFENSIVELY bad

[trim wedge]

part of the reason I didn't mind the gauntlet b4 karmelita

[exotic dome]

only thing thats good about it is the music

[orchid spruce]

it is pretty inoffensive

[hybrid flare]

doing the 2 last claws and testing techs on them is neat

[lavish apex]

i don't think i'll ever like silksong more than hk but it's like Close-ish

[hybrid flare]

Nah the area itself is very solid but the boss just kiills it

[orchid spruce]

the area idea is super cool actually

[hybrid flare]

like immediate death

[exotic dome]

yea i was talking about the boss

[orchid spruce]

enemies and boss were bit slop

[hybrid flare]

yeah

[exotic dome]

it was fun to traverse

[lavish apex]

i mean it's still my second favorite metroidvania out of 10

[hybrid flare]

Blasted steps enemies are alright ig judges are cool

[graceful oyster]

One day when blebbles gets a more personalized pfp he'll be unrecognizable

[hybrid flare]

the rest are nothing special

[lavish apex]

wtf

[light swan]

i knew blebbles before the hk pfp i think

[orchid spruce]

john hollow knight

[hybrid flare]

whispering vaults enemies are neat, high halls enemies are decent-ish, choral chambers enemies are PEAK, ccore enemies also good

[exotic dome]

new tk art is so good

[hybrid flare]

Whats yo pfp

[exotic dome]

whiteward enemies are cool too

[graceful oyster]

The new art has something weird going on with it and I don't like it very much

[trim wedge]

I like silksong more cz of the movement, the citadel and the much better base game boss design, I even loved the coral tower and high halls gauntlets a lot more than colosseum of fools, but yeah liking HK more is valid cz the atmosphere is different. To me silksong js feels like HK but everything got an upgrade

[orchid spruce]

mio spoilers ||stargazing||

[graceful oyster]

You did not explore

[hybrid flare]

Ig i didnt get to an overly optional area somewhere mbn

[lavish apex]

so much of silksong is peak gaming and then other times it's like game wtf are you doing

[trim wedge]

that area is creepy as hell man

[hybrid flare]

the game didnt spark much interest

[trim wedge]

flea minigames ffs

[hybrid flare]

i loved it but idk man

[exotic dome]

everything got an upgrade except the map design and lore probably

[lavish apex]

i like a lot of things in hk more mechanically

[orchid spruce]

istg nubbie, this is why you enjoy silksong more, you dont fucking explore

[hybrid flare]

silksong would be rightfully peak if you removed whats so obviously dumb

[trim wedge]

tho for me the frustrating moments weren't enough to ruin it

[lavish apex]

the movement isn't one of them that shit is awesome

[hybrid flare]

I absolutely had a blast in hk and elden ring

[sharp slate]

tbf people enjoy different things, still working on mio, the exploration is cool and all but eh, i prioritize mechanics in games usually

[hybrid flare]

and silksong does get unlinear in act 2

[trim wedge]

just remove flea minigames, courier rasher and add some more benches

[hybrid flare]

Mio's enemies feel to bland for the supposedly great combat

[exotic dome]

i liked mio for the exploration

[orchid spruce]

all of mio mechanics are great except possibly one nitpick

[sharp slate]

its probably reason i rate silksong so high is mechanics

[hybrid flare]

shell shards, no a3 exploration

[trim wedge]

the movement

[sharp slate]

combat feels near perfect to me

[exotic dome]

same

[hybrid flare]

I love the story, movement and combat

[graceful oyster]

Mechanics do get pretty goated though

[hybrid flare]

also how every area feels

[lavish apex]

one big comparison that i draw a lot where i like hk more mechanically is that it feels like at least half of what you collect in silksong is sidegrades and only sidegrades but other metroidvanias also don't have that problem

[orchid spruce]

what story in silksong, is there a story in silksong

[trim wedge]

yeh also shell shards kinda dumb

[opaque sigil]

What’s the nitpick

[graceful oyster]

Also you started playing, cool

[hybrid flare]

There's fnaf animatronics yes

[sharp slate]

its a game of themes not a full story really

[lavish apex]

same with bosses and gauntlets and other collectibles basically not having any reward half the time

[light swan]

i feel sad being the only person who likes mio combat this much

[hybrid flare]

it has a story but shit is explained like a soulslike

[orchid spruce]

mio spoilers ||tremors||

[exotic dome]

hornet, a chemistry teacher in pharloom, gets diagnosed with cancer

[lavish apex]

hk doesn't have those problems but neither do the blasphemous games, or mio, or afterimage

[hybrid flare]

why do tremors exist

[orchid spruce]

that's not how themes work

[trim wedge]

well Hk didn't reward all that much either

[lavish apex]

it does

[opaque sigil]

I wanna get there I promise but slay the spire 2 has me in a death grip rn

[lavish apex]

actually

[sharp slate]

you get my point though right

[graceful oyster]

I need more 9s kinda games with a more complete (not fully complete though because 9s isn't perfect) story

[trim wedge]

what really

[exotic dome]

-unrewarding fights
-shell shards
-boring quests

[sharp slate]

its not a full tied together story its weird pieces i guess

[lavish apex]

i'm pretty sure it does more consistently even if you exclude direct geo drops

[trim wedge]

very few and unnotable rewards

[orchid spruce]

silksong has a bunch of surface level topics that it wants to touch on but doesn't do anything about but to collect mention points

[lavish apex]

it's not very few lol

[hybrid flare]

quests are mostly fine and so are fight rewards (they should drop resources ong)

[orchid spruce]

omg the environment!! and what

[trim wedge]

geo doesn't even matter much at a point

[sharp slate]

if you want to nitpick stuff you can do it about every game tbh though i do agree with all your points

[opaque sigil]

I mean the citadel is good and evocative and allat

[orchid spruce]

omg!!! motherhood anf what

[hybrid flare]

[exotic dome]

areas like bilewater should be rewarding at the end

[trim wedge]

I don't consider abilities and progression unlocking as reward tho

[hybrid flare]

This can be said about literally every game if you dumb it down enough

[graceful oyster]

No you're missing the point, there's a bathroom, so there's depth

[lavish apex]

every mandatory boss in hk aside from uumuu has some reward

[orchid spruce]

yes, citadel is the best area narratively then act 3 happened

[sharp slate]

tired of the blocked messages im unblocknig nubbie for now

[hybrid flare]

what

what did i do

[sharp slate]

spoiler shit before

[orchid spruce]

you spoiler nuke people

[graceful oyster]

This is why Discord blocking sucks

[light swan]

^^

[lavish apex]

it's still Something

[exotic dome]

yeah ofc, silksong has more flaws than hk but i like sk more

[sharp slate]

agreed

[lavish apex]

silksong doesn't try

[hybrid flare]

also better highs imo

[lavish apex]

80% of fleas are literally nothing

[exotic dome]

true

[hybrid flare]

it tried to balance the economy but kinda failed

[trim wedge]

silksong has more flaws but also has much higher highs

[sharp slate]

I like both games equally tbh for hk in skong, tbh they have different things i like about both. Boss fights/mechanics in silksong are better, but the replayability in hk is unmatched

[lavish apex]

like 3 mandatory fights in all of silksong give you anything at all as a reward that isn't just You Can Move Forward now

[graceful oyster]

Nothing in Skong is as cool as the THK Radiance fight

[opaque sigil]

The slab was so close to being narratively great but I just can’t look past you know what

[light swan]

second sentinel:

[exotic dome]

fleas could never top the fake grubs in deepnest anyway

[graceful oyster]

Or White Palace

[hybrid flare]

holy glaze

[sharp slate]

I think its mainly because team cherry mostly over compensated for too much money in hk

[hybrid flare]

first time in choral chambers or last dive mog

[sharp slate]

even though i honestly dont think hk money is too crazy tbh

[hybrid flare]

hype moments n aura

[lavish apex]

gauntlet enemies don't drop anything

[orchid spruce]

[trim wedge]

same with HK no? Entirety of white palace and no reward but the kingsoul (You can move forward now)

[hybrid flare]

kingsoul also being dogshit

[graceful oyster]

Last dive is boring

[trim wedge]

the gauntlets are way more fun in silksong

[graceful oyster]

Act 3 voidslop

[exotic dome]

enemies waking up and music playing after talking to lace was top 10 moments tbh

[hybrid flare]

act 3 could've done voidslop well

[lavish apex]

there's an entire gauntlet in deep docks 2 dedicated to a shortcut you will never use and a singular flea which, as i have already described, give you nothing 80% of the time

[sharp slate]

yea, honestly a high moment i havent found in many other games t bh

[trim wedge]

literally mogs any moment in HK ngl

[hybrid flare]

thk feels that good because of the music

[graceful oyster]

No mentor should h-

[exotic dome]

yeah gauntlets should've dropped shards/rosaries or had a reward after it

[light swan]

mio has a gauntlet that gives you ||an elevator and progrsesion|| is that a sidegrade

[trim wedge]

yeah and radiance is js rng spam

[lavish apex]

they're Okay

[hybrid flare]

slop enemies though

[trim wedge]

LL is a far better boss

[lavish apex]

i mean outside of collo they barely exist in 1

[light swan]

but its fun

[lavish apex]

i think collo is pretty fun

[sharp slate]

i agree they are more fun but they could drop money/shell shards tbh

[hybrid flare]

Ehhhhh

[orchid spruce]

mio gauntlets are good, i will eat any mio gauntlets given to me. in fact, not enough mio gauntlets.

[hybrid flare]

Veeeery basic

[graceful oyster]

Elecog gauntlet where

[hybrid flare]

please

[trim wedge]

I agree with that too, wish I got more and more rosaries as I fought in high halls

[hybrid flare]

dont do this to me

[lavish apex]

this is fine

[trim wedge]

instead of js nothing

[exotic dome]

mio gauntlets are ok

[light swan]

reminder that earlygame mio combat is peak
EARLYGAME MIO SPOILERS

[hybrid flare]

wouldnt silksong gauntlets allow you to farm shit tons of infinite money by dying and coming back

[sharp slate]

MIO spoilers kinda not really ||from what i played so far, mio gaunlets are okay, they are very basic enemies, used as skill tests to a degree for some part||

[trim wedge]

but I will forgive that cz high halls is some of the most fun I've had in silksong outside of bosses

[exotic dome]

you do the same thing with grand reeds

[hybrid flare]

""""Combat"""""

[lavish apex]

white palace is different from almost all of the mandatory bosses in the fucking game

[hybrid flare]

True

[exotic dome]

js make the game more rewarding and we don't need to farm anything

[opaque sigil]

I see zero issues with this if people wanna do it

[trim wedge]

I don't get the hate for gauntlets tbh

[exotic dome]

white palace would be better if we fought pure vessel after path of pain

[trim wedge]

and it's the hardest of em all, and there being no reward for completing white palace is worse than any underrewarding moment is silksong

[lavish apex]

cogwork core and surface climb also have no reward but i don't care about that

[trim wedge]

with a bench before him right?

[sharp slate]

My main problem with MIO (Mio spoilers) ||Is that the difficulty is just from not having health, so if you fuck up once there goes a quarter of your health, its not like the game or enemies are particularly hard, hell even platforming even though it is challenging the main scare is having this tiny amount of health||

[hybrid flare]

Surface climb is as optional as PoP

[trim wedge]

they're smaller and easier

[trim wedge]

.

[hybrid flare]

and ccore is progression ig

[lavish apex]

considering that it's the final test before the end of the game no

[sharp slate]

though i still need to finish the game

[light swan]

valid

[hybrid flare]

Healing sucks

[lavish apex]

not really actually

[light swan]

easy game but its punishing, pretty valid

[graceful oyster]

There become more healing options throughout the game but, yeah, fair

[trim wedge]

cogwork core is also like 10 times more fun than white palace

[sharp slate]

silksong has hard difficulty enemies/combat, but its compensated by healing

[hybrid flare]

the currency is also utterly useless except for like a single vendor and heals

[potent vessel]

peak

[hybrid flare]

you can accumulate 5 million crystallized nacre

[exotic dome]

ngl i would prefer useless currency over farming

[graceful oyster]

This is how I lost my 112% steel save, I forgot I had this mod on

[potent vessel]

but keep the same reward of a 3 second cutscene

[lavish apex]

there being no reward for the endgame platforming challenge is fine

[graceful oyster]

And my steel save is where I did my PoP runs

[trim wedge]

how is it fine?

[potent vessel]

you can die in white palace for steel soul?

[trim wedge]

gaslighting ourselves are we?

[graceful oyster]

Yes

[potent vessel]

how is it not

[hybrid flare]

it literally loses value early game even, all you need are pearls

[exotic dome]

i didnt know you can die in white palace

[potent vessel]

its a challenge

[graceful oyster]

Yeah WP and Radiance are exempt from dream deaths

[lavish apex]

no we aren't gaslighting ourselves
it's one thing
it's one of the last things you even can do

[trim wedge]

he was saying that silksong is underrewarding, so I gave him the white palace example

[lavish apex]

silksong has that problem throughout its entire runtime

[sharp slate]

This 100%

[potent vessel]

well i dont agree with either of those

[exotic dome]

release patch was miserable i couldnt afford like half of the bellways man

[potent vessel]

how so

[light swan]

is it not combat?

sorry, i posted a platforming clip lol

[trim wedge]

I think when we fight a boss or complete an area, we should see the boss and the area itself as a reward

[light swan]

mb yall

[graceful oyster]

No it was combat

[sharp slate]

main reason i prefer this is:

1. A first playthrough makes you buy things earlier and allows you to use them throughout the run
2. Replayability, limited money sucks for that shit

[hybrid flare]

Ig pushing the bland annoying enemies into spikes is neat

[orchid spruce]

omg, glowing item on the ground i wonder what it is. frayed rosary string.

when in other games i played, it's almost always at least semi-exciting to pick up things

[trim wedge]

who tf cares that we get the worst spell from first sinner? no one cz the fight is peak asf

[light swan]

are the enemies actually bad

[exotic dome]

true

[rocky jolt]

all yal lcare about is material possessions

[hybrid flare]

They're no bad but boring

[light swan]

theyre simple and thats fine, things dont have to be crazy to be cool

[potent vessel]

fr

[light swan]

theyre still fun to fight despite being simple

[opaque sigil]

you're lucky to get a rosary string and not a shard bundle lol

[hybrid flare]

and barely any variety

[trim wedge]

don't act like we weren't picking up rancid eggs by risking our lives in HK

[orchid spruce]

and shard bundles too lmao

[hybrid flare]

I dont find them particularly interesting to fight either

[exotic dome]

mio enemies are just ok

[hybrid flare]

rancid eggs and 3 geo

[lavish apex]

moss mother gives you nothing
lace 1 gives you nothing
fourth chorus gives you nothing
moorwing gives you nothing
sister splinter gives you nothing
last judge gives you nothing
hhg gives you nothing

[graceful oyster]

Rancid eggs are worth a fortune in steel

[broken seal]

just quit out? ik you're against that but if it was cuz of a modded enemy that you weren't prepared to fight i feel like save quitting is justified there

[lavish apex]

every act 3 boss gives you nothing

[exotic dome]

fourth chorus should've given the simple key in bone bottom shop

[opaque sigil]

ok sister splinter is supposed to give you something you can just skip her

[potent vessel]

every boss needs to give you something now apparently

[hybrid flare]

in steel you're likely already john rockefeller himself because you wont drop any of that sweet geo ever

[trim wedge]

and almost all of em are fun as hell

[lavish apex]

not EVERY boss but half of the bosses in silksong don't contribute anything beyond a story objective

[lavish apex]

i agree that's not what we're talking about here though

[graceful oyster]

I do my PoP runs on Steel so much I had just forgotten it was permadeath. I actually stood there and let him kill me so I could try again

[hybrid flare]

Good enough for me

[orchid spruce]

team cherry said they wanted to make players do it for intrinsic pleasure. damn, what a flop

[potent vessel]

does this guy even enjoy games, he seems to enjoy collecting things more

[lavish apex]

the fights being fun doesn't mean the lack of rewards doesn't suck shit

[trim wedge]

I could also say

Hornet gives you nothing
Traitor Lord gives you nothing
all dream fights, nothing except progression

[potent vessel]

not everything in games need a reward

[hybrid flare]

beating the bosses does feel kinda rewarding instead of hitting mmc 3 times to get like 123 geo

[lavish apex]

hornet gives you dash

[light swan]

intrinsic pleasure isnt too bad but they gotta be fun first

[sharp slate]

i dont think every boss needs to, but a rosary chest every once in a while wouldnt be so bad

[hybrid flare]

Most of them are

[light swan]

not for me personally

[trim wedge]

sister splinter gives you cling grip

[lavish apex]

all dream fights give you essence which gives rewards

[sharp slate]

Theres a nice feeling in games when you get a reward after them, i think hk did it well with those geo chests tbh

[orchid spruce]

exploration in silksong is weeweedoodoo

[light swan]

thats part of why i like mio gauntlets

[lavish apex]

you can skip her

[trim wedge]

progression stuff

[lavish apex]

easily

[potent vessel]

you can skip nearly all the bosses in hk

[rocky jolt]

a new player isnt gonna know how to do that on their first time playing

[hybrid flare]

Mio gauntlets are both slog and dont give anything (occasionally theres a chest but wtv)

[median fractal]

Moss mother is REQUIRED for you to progress
lace 1 is the intended way forward but fair I guess
fourth chorus is REQUIRED to even LEAVE (We dont talk about the skip that does not count)
Moorwing actually unlocks Bellhart. Unless we're talking about the other encounter where yes it shouldve gotten something but also its optional
sister splinter gives you cling grip
last judge is the finale of Act 1 and unlocks the Citadel through the bells route
high halls gauntlet unlocks the Conductor's Melody

genuinely why do people argue that all of these are "unrewarding"

[potent vessel]

fr, its such a redundant argument

[light swan]

name a mio gauntlet that doesnt give anything

[lavish apex]

no it's not just progression, it's money, a pale ore, a vessel fragment, a mask shard, a charm, dreamgate

[hybrid flare]

the one in haven you've shown

[trim wedge]

apparently progression isn't a reward to em unless it's in HK

[orchid spruce]

mio gauntlets are truly intrinsic pleasure, i crave them

[median fractal]

Yeah...

[orchid spruce]

the combat has so much juice

[light swan]

nacre + elevator

[exotic dome]

there is not enough rosary rewards

[sharp slate]

I think the main problem with people is that most bosses are progress not rewards

you can have both progress and a reward

[light swan]

both of which are instant rewards

[hybrid flare]

Elevator which counts as progression, as most things and nacre which is hella useless and extremely abundant

[lavish apex]

a fight being required for progression and giving you nothing other than progression is the thing i am talking about here actually

[sharp slate]

hk does that very often

[potent vessel]

ig silksong is shit now because moss mother doesnt give 500 rosaries

[rocky jolt]

some hk boss rewards just dont make any sense oh yeah the big bush monster thing has hundreds of geos inside it despite it only being like 4 little bugs makes sense

[trim wedge]

bro said "last judge gives you nothing" as if the citadel isn't the best reward anyone can ask for

[light swan]

the elevator doesnt help you progress

[lavish apex]

fucking THANK YOU

[sharp slate]

you are just stretching what people are arguing for no reason

[hybrid flare]

yeah silksong is so bad its got nothing im gonna go and play smt better like dark souls 1 ofc

[potent vessel]

im exaggerating to exemplify how silly your argument is

[sharp slate]

false knight for example first boss money and progress, gruz mother, money and progress

[orchid spruce]

ash is the only silksong glazer i listen to, yall shut up

[lavish apex]

"you can move forward" when they could also drop rosaries or something

[hybrid flare]

shush wrinkled your takes are bed of chaos tier

[median fractal]

look, this is a subjective topic, but I consider the reward to be beating the boss.

The only thing I do think TC should've done regaridng rewards is give you more Rosaries as you go. But not everything should give you rosaries and I do not think every boss needs a proper reward like a tool or something. Especially not main progression bosses

[exotic cedar]

Yeah why didn't team cherry do this with silksong

[light swan]

nacre is way better than nothing like silksong does

[opaque sigil]

why is the goat grover catching flak

[hybrid flare]

Nacre IS nothing

[potent vessel]

why would a boss dropping rosaries even change anything, oh wow a small dopamine boost that adds nothing to the fight

[orchid spruce]

[rocky jolt]

last judge giving a big amount of rosaries would ruin the point of underworks

[lavish apex]

yeah i don't either

[sharp slate]

too much money in the ecosystem they thought, they over compensated from hks economy

[exotic cedar]

You can get so much money in hollow knight even when you are just progressing normally

[light swan]

if we're not considering nacre, theres uhhh

[median fractal]

the point of adding Rosaries to rewards is to lessen the grinding at the end for 100%.

[light swan]

2 gauntlets that have no reward outside of progression

[sharp slate]

though hks money abudance came from colletibles (and some big chests), colo i dont count because lategame

[trim wedge]

silksong rewards going into the world and exploring its nooks and crannies, exploring in silksong is extremely rewarding if you don't expect to get everything in your progression path

[lavish apex]

no metroidvania gives every boss a good secondary reward

[exotic cedar]

You still need money? There's atleast a fun way to do it and it's collesium

[charred tiger]

vespa bossfigh...

[hybrid flare]

That elevator could be called progression to further explore and stuff

[broken seal]

now why in the fuck would Moss Mother have rosaries 😭 Last Judge maybe HAD Rosaries but they were all destroyed during the suicide finish.

[exotic dome]

it doesnt have to drop, just add a rosary chest in a room after it, i don't wanna constantly farm rosaries to buy tools

[orchid spruce]

i rather be drowned in currency than having to farm currency for 30 minutes

[lavish apex]

but half of the ones i've played do a MUCH better job, by virtue of trying, at all, than silksong does

[hybrid flare]

Poor alpre

does he deserve this

[exotic dome]

who is that

[trim wedge]

silksong's economy is intentionally broken, that's the whole point of the game gng

[light swan]

what did alpre do

[lavish apex]

yeah and it isn't fun

[exotic dome]

free my man 💔

[sharp slate]

oh look a stash of rosaries of to the side of a pilgrim trader that died to moss mother

[exotic cedar]

Is that me

[trim wedge]

it is

[graceful oyster]

Posted longnose green loser

[lavish apex]

the game is fun but the economy isn't

[sharp slate]

why does gruz mother and vengefly have money by all accounts of your guys arguement they should have none

[orchid spruce]

https://tenor.com/view/jerry-meme-tom-and-jerry-meme-jerry-points-get-a-load-of-this-guy-this-guy-gif-11384860625931393733

[lavish apex]

btw i'm talking about my 6th favorite game of all time here

[rocky jolt]

the cs market is crashing

[broken seal]

well the "economy" of this game is prayer beads that are used to signify devotion and faith

[exotic cedar]

Sorry for the crime i commited. I apologize to all of the hollow knight community.

[trim wedge]

ngl you still get enough rosaries unless if you keep dying too much

[median fractal]

I appreciate TC's efforts at making every mob drop lore accurate currency and amount, but they should've added more guaranteed rosaries along your path

Underworks is the one area that's justified

[lavish apex]

me having a big problem with it is not me hating every single aspect of it

[sharp slate]

I think the main problem with the game is sacrficing mechanics for lore is bad

[lavish apex]

yes

[trim wedge]

kinda agree, but honestly it's not as big of an issue as people seem to make it out to be

[median fractal]

...and any mob that should not canonically be carrying rosaries

[median fractal]

It's not really an issue until you go for shops for 100%

[broken seal]

the "money" in HK is fossilized remains of bugs, and it's said that most common bugs are attracted to them simply of the virtue of them being shiny. Other bugs have them because they're used as currency.

[sharp slate]

To me, if i open an extra chest full of rosaries its not going to break my immersion

[orchid spruce]

it's not like it's got a good story to tell neither

[potent vessel]

this adds literally nothing of value to gameplay

[light swan]

oh, valid

[lavish apex]

ftr silksong is still better with rewards than like any metroid

[exotic dome]

it does, it removes the boring farming process

[lavish apex]

it just sucks at having that be a part of the game when compared to like

hk, afterimage, blasphemous 1 and 2

[exotic cedar]

Theres only one rosary chest i remember and that's in high halls

[sharp slate]

tbh if i want a game that hits money correct right on the head its nine sols

[orchid spruce]

just nuke corpse run, that shit makes currency balancing harder than usual in metroidvanias

[sharp slate]

nine sols does an AMAZING job at pacing money

[lavish apex]

behind the simple key door

[orchid spruce]

wtf nine sols glaze

[broken seal]

there are quite a few chests that contain rosaries

[exotic dome]

or, crazy idea, maybe some items should be cheaper. like why the fuck spider strings cost 320 rosaries

[lavish apex]

two of those cost money

[exotic cedar]

Oh that exists

[sharp slate]

its well spread out throughout the game, and you get the correct amount by the end

[light swan]

nine sols is too expensive i want more money

[lavish apex]

so really you're effectively paying for the rosary cannon

which is a joke item

[light swan]

on my replays id say mio does money well but i dont remember what it was like first playthrough

[orchid spruce]

part of that is bc it's relatively linear
in less linear metroidvanias, devs should start removing corpse run mechanics because it hurts currency balancing

[lavish apex]

mio does money well

[orchid spruce]

NUKE corpse run

[lavish apex]

it's kind of an afterthought if you play decently but it exists

[sharp slate]

havent finished it yet, but it seems okay so far

[lavish apex]

i like the crystallizing feature

[trim wedge]

who the hell uses rosary cannon

[light swan]

yea i think so too

[lavish apex]

yeah man that's my point

[clever vault]

p2w gun

[sharp slate]

i will say not sure if this is even MIO spoilers but ||paying for heals was kinda fucking annoying and unneccesary at the start, equipped that one modifier immeidatly for free heals||

[exotic dome]

also why are we giving 1/4 of the amount for making rosary strings

[opaque sigil]

it's so cheap though it's basically a nonissue

[trim wedge]

the only red tools I used were cogflies, tacks, plasmium and I didn't even use em on bosses

[lavish apex]

simple keys cost money and there is nothing else in that area in high halls besides about as much money as a simple key costs

[light swan]

i found it completely okay because it was so cheap and easy to come by

[sharp slate]

yea, but just kinda a nuisance, like why does it even exist

[trim estuary]

what if you could like make rosary strings on certain benches

[orchid spruce]

lore over gameplay

[trim wedge]

it's a prank lmao

[broken seal]

because we're paying the merchant to do it for us (Hornet is too stupid to ig)

[orchid spruce]

[exotic dome]

i know but 20 is too much for a cut

it discourages people to make strings

[light swan]

i know earlygame ive heard people complain about it tho

[light swan]

just make it free like mio

[sharp slate]

i think i made one string and said, nah fuck this i aint spending my rosaries on this

[light swan]

like id rather survive than lose 20 rosaries each time

[exotic dome]

i honestly had no issues

[trim wedge]

the bigger the string, the lesser the cut will feel

[orchid spruce]

they thought they were making it interesting by making people think about whether to make strings or not, but it just ends up being fucking annoying

[lavish apex]

also something that silksong does worse than all of those games i mentioned is that much more of what you collect is just sidegrades and not something that in any way contributes to your overall power

[broken seal]

ya wanna know what's even worse? Losing 100% of the rosaries cuz you died twice. It's for safety. And if you're so skilled you never die (or if you're doing steel soul) then simply... don't buy them.

[sharp slate]

though to be fair i dont think i have ever lost money to corpse mechanic in hk/skong/nine sols

[trim wedge]

what is this supposed to mean

[orchid spruce]

yes

[sharp slate]

if you just prioritize getting your corpse i dont really see how you lose money

[light swan]

i kinda sometimes felt like most of what to buy wasnt worth it and i had too much money for what i did want to buy i guess

[orchid spruce]

pickups feel insignificant towards increasing your strength

[broken seal]

when you have a very large amount of rosaries with nothing in the moment to spend them on, but you want to keep them safe with a guarantee, you trade in a portion of them in order to keep the rest safe

[light swan]

also by the end crystallized nacre is completely useless

[exotic dome]

my point is economy is already tight and the game forces me to lose even more, donation quests are a thing too

[trim wedge]

so do you want needle upgrades lying on the ground or something

[orchid spruce]

i'd rather have that

[lavish apex]

every silk skill or tool replaces another silk skill or tool and does nothing more
crests and memory lockets do contribute to eva's rewards but this is so poorly explained that i've seen people completely miss it and rather than something that slowly builds like the salubra notches you only get 1 thing that's universally impactful from her

[graceful oyster]

I found strings and stuff useless because I developed a policy in HK to just spend money whenever I can even if I don't particularly need the charm or whatever

It's better to spend it than to lose it

[light swan]

what do we think of afterimage currency

[sharp slate]

my current state of mio atm, mio spoiler i guess ||i got a bunch of stuff in the shop atm im just not buying, probably gonna spend 10k on the random guy to figure out what that is before buying out the shop||

[light swan]

useless?

[lavish apex]

afterimage currency is fine

[light swan]

yea so pretty much what i said

lots of money, nothing to buy

[trim wedge]

well silksong's silk skills are far cooler and more fun than HK's spells

[exotic dome]

afterimage is not real because i havent played it

[lavish apex]

i disagree very hard but again that's not even related to the point i'm trying to make

[trim estuary]

Eh
Pale nails is I guess

[light swan]

yea, its just an illusion

[trim wedge]

HK js got shade dash, vertical shade dash that explodes, upwards explosion, random spell, bigger spell, smaller spell

[trim estuary]

https://tenor.com/view/marvel-fan4stic-fantastic-four-the-thing-say-that-again-gif-9345984830195785978

[sharp slate]

I guess one way of doing pickups slightly better in skong is replacing them with lore items

a few more bone scrolls or weaver effigies

[graceful oyster]

I had a dream last night someone at Costco gave me a bottle of whiskey for free
The real world is so cruel

[sharp slate]

then its lore + money instead of just money

[lavish apex]

silksong has throw needle whip needle in circle shade dash but it has worse startup and does more damage now lame autoaim projectile and Useless Dogshit Rage

[trim wedge]

pale nails, cross stitch, threadstorm, silkspear, the silk iframe dash I forgot the name of are all unique and work based on situation

[exotic dome]

https://tenor.com/view/jew-gif-9865052254369433671

[sharp slate]

though i dont mind random ground pickups of rosary strings tbh

i do wish that some of the late game rosary strings were just 40 rosaries though

[lavish apex]

and then cross stitch which is cool

[trim wedge]

only rune rage is bad

[exotic dome]

i think hk and sk skills are on par for me

[trim wedge]

everything else is great

[light swan]

why is this number so high

costco doesnt exist

[exotic dome]

existence of rune rage even as an idea is crazy to me

[lavish apex]

spells all look way cooler to me and they actually feel like a core part of the combat

[trim estuary]

I feel like a lot of my gameplay issues with Silksong would be solved with the ability to quickswap between two crests (and also DEATH TO MEMORY LOCKETS)

[sharp slate]

honestly i think sk did silk skills very good

[orchid spruce]

memory lockets suckkk

[light swan]

doesnt this mean you can use two crests at once