sk-discussion

[copper hedge]

green

[lucid trellis]

path

[tight bluff]

Yes you can always go from the top just pogo the chalame it's not that hard

[copper hedge]

hollow

[lucid trellis]

tree

[pliant sable]

maybe greymoor was more like vast plains and verdania was like a nearby forest

[slender juniper]

Why is your username gay

[tight bluff]

knight

[copper hedge]

ah yes
Green Path from the hit game Hollow Tree

[quick oak]

I gtg bye :p gonna squeeze grand reeds

[slender juniper]

Like thats kinda gay

[tight bluff]

Because I'm not gay

[inland sparrow]

Bye!

[regal fiber]

for platinum silksong you have to explore the bilewater on steelsoul mode... I just figure it out...

[pliant sable]

if you die in a memory in steel soul you dont lose your run right

[tight bluff]

Correct

[slender juniper]

Thank God hornet would do what she did to green prince

[inland sparrow]

ye

[pliant sable]

k just wondering

[timid sky]

Yes

[slender juniper]

[pliant sable]

not like ill ever be good enough to get that far in ss lmao

[tight bluff]

Don't worry, I might not be straight but I'm for sure heartless. She has no reason to murder me

[pliant sable]

im very good at being mediocre in every gamei play

like im never bad but im also never good

[timid sky]

You got this

[copper hedge]

nope. btw about memory fights... first sinner is a memory fight, but for some reason is the only memory fight that you can loose red tools youve used. normally it shouldnt.

this somehow implies that hornet was fighting air lmao

[minor sparrow]

Bilewater ss honestly isn't that much of a problem

[tight bluff]

I'd say relatable but I got good at Hollow Knight so I'm no longer mid everywhere

[timid sky]

3 months ago i was death threating people because they liked fourth chorus and i thought he was impossible and now i have 100% and most achievements

Never lose hope

[pliant sable]

also i just realized i never killed the unraveled

and now im in act 3

[copper hedge]

man the unraveled sucks

[tight bluff]

4th chorus? 😭

[minor sparrow]

Apparently playstation doesn't have ss and sh achievements

[warm creek]

fourth chorus was almost my 13th reason for a good while there i get you ma

[pliant sable]

at least i dont think i killed unraveled

[timid sky]

Yes

[copper hedge]

do u have 3 silk hearts?

[tight bluff]

I've luckily only fought it once and I was so overpowered for that point that I just beat it first try without much issue

[timid sky]

On my first playthrough i didnt know i could hit the rock to kill him

[tight bluff]

How? It's a weird boss but still

[warm creek]

we do not!

[copper hedge]

thats sad

[timid sky]

Idk lol

[minor sparrow]

I find it really funny that I didn't know what the little circle thing where your spells go in hollow knight was for until randomizer

[tight bluff]

Easy platinum then

[timid sky]

Because i was ass at the game

[pliant sable]

no

[minor sparrow]

[pliant sable]

i have 2

[copper hedge]

yeah u havent beaten it yet

[tight bluff]

How?? HOW???

[pliant sable]

sighhh now i have to beat voided unraveled

[tight bluff]

Noooooo

[minor sparrow]

Just didn't look at it

[copper hedge]

considering u said youre in act 3, that means youve already gotten lace's silk heart

[zinc wharf]

Probably still better than Lost Lace

[timid sky]

No

[pliant sable]

i actually almost died to tormented trobbio WITH bench storage lmao

[copper hedge]

i dont recall it getting voided the last time i did it in act 3

[warm creek]

it’s probably easier for better players, but the cursed achievement still exists and i really hate being cursed so ill prob never platinum it💔

[zinc wharf]

It doesn’t.

[timid sky]

Unravelled doesn't get black threaded, neither do its adds

[copper hedge]

and honestly, thats for the best

[pliant sable]

team cherry blessed me

[tight bluff]

Fair enough. I still dread having to do that at some point

[toxic vigil]

hornet dies

[pliant sable]

NOOOOO

[inland sparrow]

YEAHHHHHHHHH

[copper hedge]

new clickbait thumbnail material for silksong youtube

[cerulean sable]

Elderbug shouldve popped out here and pulled out 2 great swords and the the title card ELDERBUG: THE FIRST VESSEL would show up

[tight bluff]

Actually
I'll probably do a challenge run at some point where I play the entire game cursed because I have a mod that lets you choose your starting crest. Easy way to ruin my day :3

[minor sparrow]

I mean you can just unlock the path to gms, get cursed, bell beast, ventrica, keep fighting until you beat it

[copper hedge]

ive heard that some people got tricked into thinking the yarnaby cutscene was a death scene lmao

yt shorts moment

[south cape]

it was

[pliant sable]

top ten anime unbetrayals

[warm creek]

i’m really used to reaper crest that i’m so ass at like any other crest, i don’t look forward too it but maybe i’ll give it a shot!

[south cape]

it was even changed

[tight bluff]

Tbh it doesn't look very healthy

[minor sparrow]

I would advise getting some experience in other crests a bit more

[tight bluff]

Yes

[minor sparrow]

Even if it's as simple as traversing the world for like a couple dozen minutes with other crests

[pliant sable]

more healthy than having a potential god tier eldritch hatchling in your shell i think

[timid sky]

Wanderers is basically reaper but your needle is a pencil

[tight bluff]

Good point

[clear wagon]

Just run longclaw

[tight bluff]

Claymore vs Battle Knife

[copper hedge]

its sad that we never got to see our lil parasite fully grown out at the end of the cursed ending

[patent cosmos]

does anyone have the "there's so much zote the mighty" gif

[minor sparrow]

But if the claymore did the same single hit damage as the battle knife

[warm creek]

parasite kebab/ref

[minor sparrow]

Because thank you team cherry

[pliant sable]

cursed crest run is like silksong but hornet is antivax and thinks doctors are fake and lying to you

[tight bluff]

Exactly

Umbrella vs Kitchen Knife

[minor sparrow]

Pretty much

[warm creek]

don’t vax it gives you silk infection!1!1!1!!1!1

[regal fiber]

lol yea

[pliant sable]

hornet antivaxxer confirmed

[minor sparrow]

I don't agree with the design decision but I have mods so eh

[tight bluff]

Yes yes
I'll play antivax silksong. That's what I'll call that challenge run once I do it

[pliant sable]

next hornet is going to vote for zote because he said "make pharloom great again"

[minor sparrow]

I'm also done with the game so my perspective is skewed

[warm creek]

as a playstation player i look at you guys with so much envy for mods

[regal fiber]

wait, can we go to act 3 infected?

[copper hedge]

no

[regal fiber]

ah

[pliant sable]

nah

[kindred willow]

Guys

[tight bluff]

Have you used mods to buff reaper's?

[kindred willow]

Is the Liquid Lacquer task mandatory

[minor sparrow]

No because it triggers the cursed child cutscene immediately

[trim estuary]

Yes

[tight bluff]

No

[copper hedge]

no

[pliant sable]

logistically the curse would take over and infect gms before she can be pulled into the void

[minor sparrow]

No

[copper hedge]

high paying tho

[pliant sable]

wait hold the fuck on thats like an awesome idea for an alternative act 3

[tight bluff]

Not high paying enough for how much of a pain it is

[pliant sable]

the final boss is cursed grandmother silk

[oak chasm]

Do y'all think they'll add another old heart in sea of sorrow?

[warm creek]

which one was liquid lacquer? was it the mount fay one?

[regal fiber]

that's fire

[inland sparrow]

nah

[tight bluff]

Yo that's actually awesome yeah

[tight bluff]

Yes the one you bring to mask maker

[minor sparrow]

Yeah, I like the ideas so far. Some increase base, pogo, and dash damage multipliers, some magnetize the silk balls, some increase the amount of silk balls, some give it a chance to crit

[pliant sable]

like instead of either the void or greyroot winning theyre constantly fighting over control over GMS

[copper hedge]

idk i do the same route as before for songclave except immediately i go to the slab

(i usually take the west of the choral chambers ventrica station since it has less enemies blocking the way which is good)

[warm creek]

ohh i don’t recall that one being that bad actually

[minor sparrow]

And you can also individually tweak them

[pliant sable]

this is a fire idea

[copper hedge]

also since you have double jump it wouldnt be that bad

[tight bluff]

I only tried liquid lacquer twice and both got destroyed on mt fay

[minor sparrow]

Oh right. There's one where if you're in the reaper bind effect, you won't take mask damage in exchange for 3 silk

[warm creek]

if ur into creative stuff like that you could probably make an au for that

[minor sparrow]

That one's really cool but a bit too op

[summer sphinx]

Another easy fight the only hard part was the enemies she spawns doing double masks

[pliant sable]

dude this is like the best idea ive ever had

[tight bluff]

That's a lot of buffs for an already decently balanced crest (imo at least)

[pliant sable]

if i ever decided to mod silksong i'd make voidcursed grandmother silk

[warm creek]

i remember being terrified of her when i first got to her ong😭😭😭

[copper hedge]

tip: they can only move sideways and attack also sideways. you can attack them from the bottom

[pliant sable]

and the entire path to fight her would be completely changed

[minor sparrow]

I think in terms of basic progression it's balanced but endgame it's kind of whatever if not bad.

[tight bluff]

Grandest Mother Silk

[copper hedge]

Ultimate Mother Silk

[tight bluff]

It's not an offensive crest, it's meant to be a defensive one, and I think it works for that

[minor sparrow]

I like how the crest feels, don't get me wrong, but I think they underutilized parts of it's identity

[copper hedge]

Any Mother Silk

[pliant sable]

Void Greymother Silk

[tight bluff]

GrAny Silk

[summer sphinx]

Yay I got cling grip

[copper hedge]

Worst Father String

[kindred willow]

Guys

[timid sky]

Why am i suddenly so bad at trobbio

[copper hedge]

TROBBIOO

[kindred willow]

What is the name of the tool that you can take to Mask Maker or two other characters

[warm creek]

trobbio🥹

[tight bluff]

"Grandmother of the Void"

[minor sparrow]

Sure, but the bind ability isn't that good and there's no real compensation for the slow swing speed. Range doesn't matter as much when your crest switches what side it wants to hit. Not a problem for me, but a slight concern

[summer sphinx]

So how long from now do I get double jump because I desperately want it back

[tight bluff]

I hate that guy so much second least favorite character in the game after Widow

[warm creek]

you’ve got a bit of a ways i’d say

[midnight jasper]

What does Quick Sling even do

I forgot honestly

[copper hedge]

throw red tools twice

[pliant sable]

Rootmother of the Void

[tight bluff]

It takes a good bit

[minor sparrow]

2 tools per use, double consumption

[copper hedge]

except for some red tools

weaver silkshot doesnt seem to consume twice

[tight bluff]

The Abyssal Core
Grand Mother Void

[copper hedge]

hmmm i should sleep

[pliant sable]

remember it would be both the greyroot and the void

[tight bluff]

Good idea

[minor sparrow]

There is a void gms in a mod but she really doesn't do much

[copper hedge]

gn

[timid sky]

There we go

[tight bluff]

Right
Silken Rootmother

[minor sparrow]

Awakened gms though is really fun

[copper hedge]

this?

[pliant sable]

one of the attacks would be like greyroot trying to break out and the void pulling it back in

[minor sparrow]

Yeah, I beat that one and it was pretty fun.

[regal fiber]

imagine trobbios thirds fase being he voided

[minor sparrow]

It's more of a focus on how the enemies work together more than anything

I need to see if the awakened gms mod works with it but I highly doubt it

[pliant sable]

that would be how Voidroot would probably work too

[summer sphinx]

Now fighting widow

[tight bluff]

The idea of having 3 opposing forces (greyroot, gms and the void) all trying to control the same body sound very fun

Hornet is just a fourth party and half the attacks are just collateral from the infighting within the body

[pliant sable]

true

[regal fiber]

that's cool

[pliant sable]

the amount of work i'd have to pour in is something i just cant achieve tho

[tight bluff]

Like roots shooting out (similar to the crow judge guy in phase 2 but maybe not bad)

[tight bluff]

Yeah that's very real

[pliant sable]

i could host this as like a fan project

[regal fiber]

imagine if each 20 seconds in this bossfight thr thing that controls gms changes and the whole move sets changes aswell

[tight bluff]

Yessss

[summer sphinx]

Well this is a fun boss fight
Dropped my guard when the second phase started and died but still

[pliant sable]

but i dont know where or how or if i could build a team

[tight bluff]

I would imagine it has 4 phases, starting at silk, going through void and root and then ending with all three at once

[pliant sable]

if i did i'd be the project director

since i dont really have the skills to create it but i'd have the vision of what to create

[tight bluff]

Just make a discord server and when people are interested we can invite them there. This community is hella dedicated at times I'm sure we could find something

[pliant sable]

aight

[desert compass]

On today's episode of what will #sk-discussion be talking about today we have:

Option 1: Crests (Discourse, agenda, and/or glaze)
Option 2: How pretty the bugs are
Option 3: Silkposting

[tight bluff]

Also please invite me I wanna contribute too

[nova needle]

I mkght be the only person who sctuslly likes hunters march

Its not that hard anyways

[desert compass]

me too dw

[nova needle]

Ayyy

Its alr

[desert compass]

yeah the platforming is nice exercise

[tight bluff]

We've done two of those in the last 15 minutes and started a project on changing the final boss of the game :3

[desert compass]

for pc players for console players yeah ggs

[toxic vigil]

https://garticphone.com/en/0174182848

[crude geyser]

Sea of sorrow will be the equivalent to shadow of the erdtree for silksong calling it

[icy crow]

True final boss should have been Awakened Ultimate Sherma

[toxic vigil]

hollow knight themed gartic phone

[nova needle]

Like fsr fields the marrow and deep docks sre quite easy ( i bought the game for difficulty) so its nice having thay

[tight bluff]

One of my favorite regions in the game

[nova needle]

Yeah it teaches pogoing i recommend doing it after upgrading the cape

[icy crow]

The Blackbarrens are lowkey hard though

[lucid trellis]

i liked it, however i was also using wanderers to do it

[dawn narwhal]

does anyone have sheet music for sands of karak
wah. :[

[icy crow]

Harder and more unfair than Bilewater

[nova needle]

Mine is nun cuz the sreas are all pretty mid

[tight bluff]

I like mt fay :)

[nova needle]

They all rank like 6-7 out of 10 and no the 67 is not intended

[tight bluff]

I love the chill vibes

Pun somewhat intended

[icy crow]

Considering they're bringing back Pharloom Bay the concept sketch of the overworld would be pretty much finished

[lucid trellis]

my fav is cogwork core

[nova needle]

I love the areas in hk hut they are such a down grade in sk but idk it might change i explored like 4 areas

[tight bluff]

One of my least favorites not gonna lie

[timid sky]

When did they add that again? Isn't every nation supposed to be a separate game

[nova needle]

The game is better then hk but the areas are somid

[tight bluff]

How far are you atm?

[lucid trellis]

the music is peak tho

[icy crow]

Blackbarrens is only mentioned through inspection dialogue at the moment

[timid sky]

Yeah ik that

[icy crow]

There's a possibility for it to be one of the new Sea of Sorrow areas though

[nova needle]

Im currently stuck in hunters march i made it to the city of tears equivalent but barely explored

[timid sky]

Doubt

[nova needle]

Im 10h into the game

[timid sky]

I feel like would have to be pretty far from pharloom

[icy crow]

On my soul they're adding Voltlands

[tight bluff]

The music is one of my least favorites because I listened to it for like 3 hours in a row because I had a huge platforming skill issue on my first playthrough and it just kept repeating over and over

[lucid trellis]

ah, your like... 0.09 into the game

[tight bluff]

Oh you've yet to get to the really good areas tbf

[nova needle]

Lmao yeah

[nova needle]

I hope i find them...

[tight bluff]

You will don't worry

[timid sky]

I think 2 areas that would make the most sense for sea of sorrow are hidden gorge between fay and karak and pharloom bay

[lucid trellis]

ok, i admit, as an area is sucks, my favorite area is the underworks because my favorite NPC is there

[icy crow]

You will if you're going for true 100% anyways

[regal fiber]

the good areas are coming, but yet I also think that hk has most memorable areas

[summer sphinx]

Ok widow second phase is kinda frying me
Rare case of it still being fun though

[nova needle]

Mah never on first in hk i got 73%

[icy crow]

It's just her but with x2 speed like a YouTube video

[tight bluff]

Yeesssss
Keep walking and they'll notice you and you can go up to the holy place

[nova needle]

Ill go get the rest on 2nd playthrough in hk

[icy crow]

Real gamers skip the Underworks in Steel Soul

[light swan]

when i think of silksong i think of cogwork core

[lucid trellis]

wait, who do you think im talking about?

[icy crow]

Team Cherry making the most cool backgrounds ever just so they can blur it by 99.9%

[minor sparrow]

As always, there's a mod for that

I can understand the blur in moss grotto though

The background is kind of distracting with no blur

[lucid trellis]

concussion simulator

[minor sparrow]

Still really pretty though

[lucid trellis]

who are you talking about

[regal fiber]

jesus

[icy crow]

Silksong and Hollow Knight are the only games I've genuinely noticed background blur to be honest

Both Ori games probably do have aswell but I don't remember

[tight bluff]

The one walking on the tread mill thing no?

Weren't they the only npc in that area

Besides the architect maybe

[lucid trellis]

whos y'all's favorite NPC?

[tight bluff]

Sherma

Faridolasimanet

[sharp pawn]

sherma of course

[tight viper]

Conductor Ballador

[regal fiber]

hmmm lae lae lae

[icy crow]

People be forgetting of our goat Pious Isamor. Smh

[tight viper]

Fascinating character, wish we could learn more about him and his fellows

[lucid trellis]

im talking about 12

[tight bluff]

Okay yeah the only other npc of course I lost the 50/50

[tight bluff]

Toilet paper man?

[lucid trellis]

rip, but yeah 12 is the fucking goat

[icy crow]

The super secret NPC Timmy Jimmy is crazy

[tight bluff]

Anyway my phone is on 1% so I gotta dip

Bye bye everyone

[regal fiber]

goodbye

[south cape]

I died to Immortal Light

MAN; Need to do it all again

[lucid trellis]

-respectfull
-lore important
-makes some of the best gears
-gives you a crest
-kit upgrade
-is freed in the end

[light swan]

-is freed in the end

cute way of saying DEATH

[lucid trellis]

Plus they look cool

[desert compass]

12th architect is probably my second favorite vendor besides shakra

[lucid trellis]

bro was already dying

[void moat]

khann sweeps all other skong chars

[regal fiber]

Loam is the most wronged npc, I just remember him

poor Loam

[desert compass]

oh loam they did u dirty

[lucid trellis]

at least he didn't use life support like a coward

[desert compass]

kill the citadel bro

[desert compass]

unlike one conductor…

[icy crow]

Clearly the best NPC is the super secret one in Mosshome named Jimmy. He has 250 chunks of dialogue

[minor sparrow]

Uh

[regal fiber]

lol

[void moat]

mottled skarr

[desert compass]

tipp 🙏🙏🙏🙏

the duo basically

[minor sparrow]

Do we count bell beast as an npc cause she's pretty up there

[oak chasm]

Y'all see the fireborn speedrunner vs hunters video?

[desert compass]

yes…? I mean tbf we do fight her but we also fight shakra and the green prince so it makes sense

[lucid trellis]

i guess?

[oak chasm]

I'd count bell beast as an NPC

[lucid trellis]

and garamond, and lace

[minor sparrow]

Bell beast is probably my second favorite npc then

[lucid trellis]

i feel like 12 is also your favorite

[desert compass]

my favorite npcs are the SMALL bell beasts ❤️‍🩹❤️‍🩹❤️‍🩹

[oak chasm]

I wonder who's the first

[minor sparrow]

How'd you know?

[lucid trellis]

goated small bell beasts

[desert compass]

just had a hunch fr

they my goats always leading me back to the bellways

[minor sparrow]

Clearly it's kratt

[desert compass]

if no one got me I know small bell beasts got me

what is yalls favorite red tool whether it be for practicality or js for fun?

[regal fiber]

do we yall agree that the wrost npc (despite the snails) is Jubilana

[lucid trellis]

a hunch, goated character, especially with the kit upgrade and crest

[minor sparrow]

Bell beast just has that charm that I don't get from any other npc in either game, but I really like 12ths design, voice, and function so

[desert compass]

for me it is quite literally forever going to be silkshot weaver form

[oak chasm]

Unpopular opinion, snare setter

[lucid trellis]

either silkshot, flies, or phial

[desert compass]

that shit is amazing 😭😭😭😭😭😭

[desert compass]

ooooooo

[lucid trellis]

(you can guess what crest i main)

[desert compass]

which silkshot

[oak chasm]

Architect?

[lucid trellis]

weaver

[regal fiber]

do we all agree that the wrost npc (despite the snails) is Jubilana?

[desert compass]

lets go ❤️‍🩹❤️‍🩹❤️‍🩹

[lucid trellis]

yep

[oak chasm]

Weaver is best silkshot

[desert compass]

yes because HOLY overpriced

spool extender should NOT cost that much

[oak chasm]

Yeah I'm so tired of her

[void moat]

whats wrong with the snails????

[regal fiber]

yea, and she is really mean when we reascued her

[desert compass]

also she ALWAYS goes missing

[minor sparrow]

For fun? Probably tri-fold pin. Idk why but I just like them a lot

[lucid trellis]

2nd worst, only because she actually has some good shit to sell

[oak chasm]

Hehe void hehe

[regal fiber]

one bring the apocalypse, other call us a slave

[void moat]

not their fault, and thats true

[regal fiber]

and the little granny is just, idk, a snail

[desert compass]

coughs no way guys they had the worst method ever of containing gms coughs

[minor sparrow]

That kind of is their fault

[lucid trellis]

the only decent snail shaman is the one in the chapel

[regal fiber]

yea

[void moat]

it isnt, it wouldve gone on without a hitch, what happened was user error

[desert compass]

the only decent snail shaman is the dead one that gives us shaman crest

[sharp slate]

idk if you are gonna blame the snails you gotta blame hornet

[oak chasm]

Beats you with a stick after you pass out

[minor sparrow]

I mean if you has no idea that the device you had in your hand was a bomb and I don't tell you it's a bomb, is it your fault or mine

[regal fiber]

lol, yea

[lucid trellis]

I mean, they could have let you get eaten alive

[desert compass]

not rlly tho… regardless of her actions pharloom was doomed until she decided to remedy it

[oak chasm]

The ones in hollow knight were pretty fire

Although the only alive one forces you to clean his basement

[desert compass]

hornet one-ups the snail shamans by fixing her mistake

[minor sparrow]

Lace error, hornet really didn't do jack. Even if hornet got taken by gms, if lace doesn't intervene, it probably goes fine

[lucid trellis]

i mean, hornet was never exactly told void was the thing, plus lace kinda fucked everything up

[minor sparrow]

Or we get voided hornet who starts wrecking shit

[desert compass]

yeah hornet’s not implicit in the events that that befall pharloom in act 3

[sharp slate]

in the dialogue the snails say "dont act like this is on us you know what the plan is"

[icy crow]

I just need a few more enchantments vro

[desert compass]

no she didnt actually all she knew was that the plan would feature a trap

[lucid trellis]

The snails never told hornet using void was the plan

[minor sparrow]

I thought they meant in terms of knowing that the trap involved void

[lucid trellis]

this

[dawn needle]

I was watching a tt live of someone doing steel soul
they were fighting Lace 1, they one, and then immediately died to lava 🤣

[desert compass]

what she DIDNT know is that the trap would utilize the void thats why she was so MAD at the snail shamans

[oak chasm]

Yeah the void was just snail shamans being snail shamans

[minor sparrow]

Not that the end of the world would come

[void moat]

getting trapped along with gms is a bad idea she should know that even jf shes unaware of void

[dawn needle]

They burst into laughter

[oak chasm]

Lace had to have her main character moment that's why act 3 happens

[void moat]

she gets grabbed by gms, that chud silk kid comes to save her, she gets tsken too, gms resists so pharloom is almost destroyrd

[desert compass]

yeah but again she thought the trap would be something else and not the freaking void, there was also no telling how the battle would go + if gms would drag her down with her to the void

[void moat]

genuinely all hornets and laces fault

[minor sparrow]

She has to activate the trap while keeping her in the trap. It's not hornet's fault that gms decided to freak tf out when lace intervenes

[oak chasm]

I hopped back on HK after months and I lost a steel soul run to greenpath acid, all five masks, gone to greenpath acid.

[desert compass]

“Surely you had a hunch” what if she didnt though?

[sharp slate]

There us 0 way ingame hornet does not know imo, hornet knows more about the world than than the players

[minor sparrow]

Being that the trap was void, there's literally know way hornet could know that the trap would cause act 3

[void moat]

so then thats still her fault if she got grabbed? and the void isnt the surprising part even, it wouldve gone on without a hitch even if hornet was taken

[desert compass]

so then why would she get angry about the fact of them using the void if she already knew

[lucid trellis]

reminder: most smail shamen in hallownest where either: dead, or in hiding, I doubt hornet had much exposure to them

[desert compass]

this does not make sense if hornet knew beforehand then she would either 1: not continue with the plan or 2: not get angry

her reaction entails no knowledge about the trap’s contents this is why there was a reaction in the first place

[sharp slate]

She has also been around for significantly longer than the world of hallownests existance at the time of the game

[desert compass]

hornet is not a hypocrite we see this as to why she even thought about using the everbloom once she got out of the abyss

[minor sparrow]

Sure but hornet had been alive for a long ass time, I'd be surprised if she hadn't heard even a lick about the snail shamans having a connection to void

[desert compass]

she saw how terrifying the abyss was and STILL wanted to remedy it

[minor sparrow]

Especially because they were doing experiments in CoT

[lucid trellis]

That was the soul masters with SOUL

[sharp slate]

This, she is insanely old and was raised by very smart and very powerful beings in hallownest

[lucid trellis]

i mean, probably but its also not to far fechted to say hornet could have chalked it up to hyperbole or mistranslations

[minor sparrow]

One of which involved a snail shaman

[sharp slate]

Additionally her family has direct connections to void, hell white lady probably educated her on a lot of stuff related to it

[lucid trellis]

but it never was with Void, it was soul shit

[sharp slate]

shade soul

thats what they are referencing

[minor sparrow]

I'm not saying that she'd immediately grasp that it's void because it has shade soul, but that she would at least have an inkling or know who the shamans were and what they're about

[void moat]

that wasnt the shamans doing

[summer sphinx]

Yay

[void moat]

what happens when tk absorbs a shaman is their body being used as a catalyst for tk to fuse their own essence with the shaman spells, making it void

[lucid trellis]

uh, shade soul was purely something little ghost did

[worthy lintel]

Do any chests in Silksong have an area underneath you access by going through the base, like the one before Baldur Shell?

I noticed that the chests have an empty base like in HK, wondering if that's a weird leftover or if it's used in Silksong too

[minor sparrow]

Refer to my above message

[mighty pilot]

midsong

[desert compass]

which we get after absorbing a snail shaman iirc which hornet has never done or seen in her life as we know of 😭 I would say yes she KNOWS about the snail shamans and what they can do but she 99% never knew they even had a trap that would utilize the void in PHARLOOM. Again why do you think she got mad that they used the void to begin with.

[minor sparrow]

I'm not saying she'd know because of shade soul, but that she'd probably know what shamans are

[desert compass]

a reaction of anger entails she was not AWARE which means she ISNT to blame because she DID not know.

[worthy lintel]

The Snail Shamans (I think the Caretaker specifically) implied she knew about them and that they messed with void

[sharp slate]

its a connection though between void and snail shamans is what i mean

[void moat]

they arent connected at all in the first game

[desert compass]

they assumed she had a “hunch”

which doesnt confirm it but there is more evidence hornet didn’t know than evidence she did

[minor sparrow]

Except the abyss shriek thing, kinda

[void moat]

"not a place my kind had ever thought to look"

[sharp slate]

There is no way she couldnt assume that though, to take down a pale being requires alot of shit. LIKELY the cannon ending of hk is radiance being taken down by void a higher being. What would snail shamans use to take down a higher being that she knows can take down higher beings void

[lucid trellis]

Ok, based on what everyone is saying heres my assumption

Hornet knew rhe snails dabbled in void but assumed they weren't suicidal or stupid enough to try that shit with a god

[desert compass]

this bro

[minor sparrow]

Basically

[summer sphinx]

I am once again broke

[sharp slate]

The one snail shamans in crossroads doesnt mention anything, but they just could be so far removed from the civilization, you get all 3 void spells from snail shamans so there is a connection

[still osprey]

I did Fourth Chorus skip!!

[worthy lintel]

True, but IIRC she doesn't actually counter that and considering the fact she's been alive for a while (and was protecting Hallownest for a while) I wouldn't be surprised if she did know

At the very least she knew that the Caretaker wasn't just a normal bug and had some sort of special power

And that the Bell Hermit was hiding "more power than most"

[sharp slate]

it would have worked if lace didnt get pulled in though

[lucid trellis]

i mean, historically trying to contain a god in a void-based prison hasn't worked out

[toxic vigil]

time to do one of the best parts of sk!

[sharp slate]

was the plan really that stupid if it almost worked

[desert compass]

the plan would have killed hornet if lace didn’t interfere which would yes result in a failure

[worthy lintel]

Dragging a god into the void worked on the Radiance (assuming DNM), they were trying to drag her in not contain her like with the Hollow Knight

[lucid trellis]

GMS would have void silk and hornets silk supply

[sharp slate]

I don't think it would result in a failure, she would have been brought to the void still

[void moat]

well thats just bad writing for the one character that lets us glimpse into this hidden civilization to be full of crap

[lucid trellis]

shit would have gone downhill fast

[desert compass]

and ur forgetting that hornet is part pale being as well AND weaver which would result in gms probably using her in the void for something else far more sinister

[oak chasm]

Lost Hornet /j

[desert compass]

hornet has SILK hearts for god’s sake gms could have used her as a remaining life supply in the abyss

[sharp slate]

How though, GMS and hornet have 0 control over the void

[void moat]

no??

[sharp slate]

We know from ingame text only reason void threads occur is because GMS is fighting to keep lace alive

[clear wagon]

Bc they aren't void based beings like the vessel

[sharp slate]

no shot

[worthy lintel]

If she had Hornet's strength maybe she could've escaped, Lace seemed to think she denied GMS something by preventing her from taking Hornet (though that could just be her wanting GMS to not have Hornet no matter what rather than thinking it'd actually make a difference)

[minor sparrow]

She has nothing to live for anyways, her child is safe

[void moat]

she couldnt have

[sharp slate]

Maybe, but i would say thats a reach, she would need to to bind her, she is over half way dragged into the portal. She just woke up. I really think she would have just been dead in the void simple as that

[desert compass]

yes shot you just mentioned gms is fighting to keep lace alive, if gms found out that hornet was stronger than lace by genetics (which SHE IS) would gms keep her alive selfishly or selflessly? The only reason she ends up sacrificing the last of her silk is because she knows she made a mistake only AFTER we beat up lace.

[minor sparrow]

Think of act 3 as a mother temporarily getting enough strength to lift a car off her kid

[sharp slate]

The whole point of GMS fighting to keep lace alive is out of love though isnt it? isnt t hat whats implied at the ending, motherhood ect. She doesnt have that connection to hornet

[summer sphinx]

Sharpened needle obtained

[desert compass]

and another thing let me recall, gms already KNOWS hornet has strong blood

[sharp slate]

She sacrafices herself to save lace

she doesnt give a shit about hornet besides power/binding weavers

[timid sky]

Guys, do you think going for double jump to disable clawmaidens on speedrun with 2 hrs left is worth it or not?

[desert compass]

you are right about that, but if you are also right about having no connection to hornet then that kinda proves that yes, she would use hornet to sustain herself no?

[minor sparrow]

Hornet's strength wouldn't contribute anything as act 3 only happens because GMS doesn't want lace to die

[worthy lintel]

One of those is from Lace, made by GMS, I imagine they're more near-infinite like GMS herself is lore-wise, and couldn't sustain her infinitely, it wouldn't make sense if something from GMS has more silk than her

Also the silk threads from Bell Beast are presumably the source of its silk heart which also presumably aren't canonically totally infinite (even if they come back when broken normally in-game), and the Unravelled was just a lot of silk (Fourth Chorus would also drop one at one point but it was cut, which is just from a bunch of silkflies)

[void moat]

what are we even talking about anymore? even if gms was able to get hornet in the abyss with her shes immobile, weakened, being eaten alive by void, and already wasting her silk trying to sutvive

[sharp slate]

I don't think hornet is enough to sustain her verses a SEA OF VOID. We arent talking about a puddle here, its alot of void

[desert compass]

I think we were talking about the snail shamans and hornet’s involvement

[minor sparrow]

Karak

[lucid trellis]

hornet would probably get out eventually (knight)

[void moat]

https://giphy.com/gifs/noticing-letstakealook-utpyy-tgdgn2XP9RFVLwKyf9

[sharp slate]

hell i think GMS even at full strength would get bodied by the void we see what it does to pale/higher beings

[void moat]

she would die before then

[summer sphinx]

So now that I freed bellhome and have dash, needolin, and cling grip where do I go

[sharp slate]

she just woke up

[void moat]

far left of shellwood

[lucid trellis]

I mean, i never said she would get out alive

[desert compass]

oh i didnt say gms would survive 😭I agree with you on that

atleast I hope I didnt say she would survive?

let me recheck holy

im half awake on ts 💔

[sharp slate]

someone else did thats why i think

[nova needle]

Guys i really need help in this arean in hunters march

[minor sparrow]

Maybe. I don't know what caused the knight to travel nor how fast it traveled

[desert compass]

the commotion of the fight I presumed

and the silksoar + everbloom

[sharp slate]

Overall what snail shamans did was fine imo, well made plan only foiled by power of love

tbh gms had to be dealt with eventually

[desert compass]

I still think it was flawed in which they knew that hornet would probably die in this in which case it is fair because they did give some of their soul away

[minor sparrow]

The power of love used in a bad way is pretty neat

[loud junco]

why is Bell Eater so hard😭

[sharp slate]

Fair, you could argue they were sacrificing hornet, but honestly fair trade to get rid of a higher being

[summer sphinx]

Wormways
Never came to this place before I reset my save

And I was in the citadel before I reset

[minor sparrow]

I'd be willing to think they'd be fine sacking hornet because not like 5 hours later they sacrifice themselves

[desert compass]

hmm ur right on this one I rest my case

[minor sparrow]

Greater good and all that

[desert compass]

hm true they went out of their way knowing that they might not see tomorrow again just to make sure hornet had a fighting chance

as they did say, better to die fighting

[summer sphinx]

Wow every enemy here does double damage
This is going to be fun

[desert compass]

I honestly and idc if its a “get good” moment I hate the argument that “hornet’s just meant to be weaker”

when people use it to justify silksong’s damage

no bro even the HOLLOW KNIGHT did 1 damage

[sharp slate]

Thats true, intresting how they were willing to just sacrafice themselves like that

[desert compass]

I think because it was better than cowering in the chapel

and they realized that when hornet confronted them

[sharp slate]

Fair

[desert compass]

it showed to them that one person was willing to sacrifice their lives

even after everything

[summer sphinx]

Is coming to wormways even worth it if this is the shit I have to endure

[minor sparrow]

No other option, really

There are no everblooms and the only one that remembers one strong enough us right there

[desert compass]

• I think that they never intended to sacrifice their lives, I like to think that when they found out it would cost them their lives to put hornet in the red memory that they did it regardless because they took up the mantle of helping her

[inland sparrow]

https://tenor.com/view/cat-smiling-cat-grey-cat-cute-cat-gif-2949633679466643461

[sharp slate]

im curious if they could just wait it out

surely GMS couldnt survive forever down there

dont get me wrong ALOT more people would die

[hexed sonnet]

GUYS I BEAT GMS

[desert compass]

no they’d be dead due to the abyss by then and I think they knew that

[dawn needle]

Unlucky

[inland sparrow]

good job

[desert compass]

lets go!!!

[minor sparrow]

Sure but that might just kill everyone as she gets more desperate

[hexed sonnet]

The game kicked me out after the credits and when I opened my save file I'm fighting her again wats happening?

[desert compass]

you beat her and got the achievements right

[hexed sonnet]

Yea

[desert compass]

the save file rewinds to before you beat her but you get the achievement

[hexed sonnet]

Oh alr

[desert compass]

this applies to both hollow knight games

[minor sparrow]

In both games you'll be put back before an ending if you reopen a file

[hexed sonnet]

What about act 3?

[desert compass]

for that personally i dont want to spoil, but if you want a hint

just keep playing

[hexed sonnet]

Bruh what

[desert compass]

or sorry let me be a bit more clear

finish as much of the remaining content if you can

thats all I think I can say for now, anything more will be spoilers, I wish you luck!!

[hexed sonnet]

Lace 2 was 5x easier than gms

Literally cos it took me 5 tries to beat lace 2 and 1st attempt for gms

[summer sphinx]

Is ANYWHERE safe here god

[inland sparrow]

Okay bro what are you on?

[desert compass]

Beating gms first try is nice actually it took me like 7, damn

[inland sparrow]

GMS is way easier then lace 2

[hexed sonnet]

Nothing I'm pretty decent at the game nothing too pro

Use no red tools

Probably the level 3 nail came in handy lol

[desert compass]

no theyre asking if ur high because gms is easier than lace 2

I disagree I do think gms is harder

I beat lace 2 first try

[loud junco]

Bell Beast has kids lol

[hexed sonnet]

I wasn't even trying to dodge those big needles and I didn't get hit by them

[toxic vigil]

hello!

[summer sphinx]

As usual the acid this thing spews does 2 damage

[inland sparrow]

hello

[desert compass]

man goodluck 😭😭😭

[sharp slate]

lace 2 was harder tham GMS for me but i can see it going either way

[loud junco]

They are so cute

[desert compass]

I think its because for the first time in forever we have a boss in act 2 that genuinely is a skill check

cogwork dancers is fair and way way more lenient to mistakes than lace 2

everyone agrees the high halls gauntlet is BULLSHIT and unfair and drags things out

[tight viper]

It isn’t

[desert compass]

nvm some people agree but yeah

[tight viper]

Use silk skills

[light swan]

i agree i HATE hhg

[tight viper]

Don’t brute force the gauntlet, leave if you need to and gather more shit

[desert compass]

I think its because most gauntlets yk dont have the same big guy appear 3 times

and if you find it easy good for you but it is more of an endurance test than a gauntlet

[minor sparrow]

It's fair, but I prefer having faydown first

[tight viper]

Every melody has some major obstacle, this is the obstacle for conductors. It has to be difficult

[desert compass]

true that

[hexed sonnet]

Nah it was pretty chill let's be fr just use ascendants grip and camp on the wall for the big guys and it's pretty straightforward

[sharp slate]

i like HHG alot besides fucking cogfly guys

[hexed sonnet]

Architects was the worst because of the shitass platforming and the fuckass runback to the platforming

[minor sparrow]

I've never had a problem with those guys actually

[desert compass]

I think ngl tho the most beloved melody obstacle was cogwork core

[minor sparrow]

Mostly cause they only do one damage

[desert compass]

I got chills bro the platforming is so good and smooth and its hard but also not too hard

[broken seal]

it is NOT THAT bad, people

[void moat]

vaultkeepers melody is the risk of accidentally falling into bilewater

[sharp slate]

I didnt really have a problem with them killing me just that they are fricken annoying

[hexed sonnet]

I love getting vaultkeeper melody because TROBBIOOO

[tight viper]

And it makes sense for Hornet to fight it. A full chamber took her down in Hallownest and brought her to Pharloom, now she can fight the Choir as a demonstration of how strong she has grown in Pharloom

[desert compass]

I had to move from hunter to wanderer’s crest I think it IS that bad 😭😭😭

[summer sphinx]

After going through hell cubed (wormways) im back in bone bottom now

[supple thunder]

"Describe Silksong in 8 words"

[desert compass]

best game you suck at thanks steam

[tight viper]

Vaultkeeper’s obstacle is waking up the little scoundrels

[void moat]

One of the worst games i loved playing

[minor sparrow]

Me trying to get that outside songclave flea and forget where im going

[leaden delta]

I do like the gauntlet tho

[broken seal]

an issue of skill is not the fault of the game 😭

[timid sky]

Flower lace can triple lunge?

[hexed sonnet]

Game by sadists and I'm a masochistic enough

[timid sky]

Though that was ll only

[desert compass]

I think if multiple people agree the hhg gauntlet is unfair I think it isnt a skill issue anymore 😭

[tight viper]

It is

People are just rushing it needlessly

[minor sparrow]

It's not unfair, it's just hard

[timid sky]

Threw me off a bit ngl

[broken seal]

if a lot of people suck and complain loudly, does that mean it's no longer an issue of them sucking?

[hexed sonnet]

Other than savage beastfly 2 and moorwing silksong has been pretty chill

[supple thunder]

Game by sadists and I'm a full masochistic

[timid sky]

That's just mean

[broken seal]

i mean this statement generally, not just for hhg

[minor sparrow]

I mean it's a good point

[void moat]

idk man i got it second try on my first playthrough

[sharp slate]

a lot of people got to it early, problem is people dont leave and come back alter

[light swan]

i found it

[minor sparrow]

They're not being mean to the players, they're making a hypothetical

[inland sparrow]

damn

[devout sail]

Can someone buy me the game pls

[desert compass]

I think this guy hates hhg more than me

[inland sparrow]

wait this chat sucks am leaveing bye

[timid sky]

By e

[broken seal]

i got it first try on my first playthrough. It's different for everyone, and i'm not saying it's easy, but people are WAY overstating both the difficulty and unfairness of the gauntlet. The runback is literally 1 room, and the shortcut to get back thar area is in between the bench and the gauntlet. If you're struggling too much, just leave to get more upgrades and then come back.

[hexed sonnet]

fighting GMS again is optional right?

[desert compass]

yes

[minor sparrow]

Depends on what you mean

[broken seal]

you need to fight her again for act 3

[tight viper]

Hell, you can even get help

[broken seal]

^

[hexed sonnet]

we'll burn that bridge when we cross it

[minor sparrow]

To fully complete the game? No. to just beat an ending of the game? yes.

[sharp slate]

This, its meant to be a difficulty checkpoint as well, thats how it was designed

[broken seal]

Both G&Z AND Shakra can help you with hhg

[hexed sonnet]

51 hours 41 minutes and 40 seconds was my time to complete

i think its a lot

[devout sail]

Can someone get me the game pls pls pls 😭😭

[minor sparrow]

I've literally never gotten them in my gauntlet lol

[void moat]

my first playthrough was loke 91h

[minor sparrow]

Mine was 60ish for A3

[broken seal]

Shakra requires you to complete the Trails End quest first (where you find her mentor after buying all of her maps)

[minor sparrow]

Idk what my A2 completion was

[desert compass]

if its different from everyone why are we undermining people for saying its difficult????

It genuinely is unfair AND hard if you compare it to other gauntlets, even groal the great is more lenient than hhg 😭

The argument that G&Z and Shakra can help you would be valid if it werent for the fact that a majority of people playing silksong for the first time dont know HOW to get help, and if you say “just search it” then thats not really playing the game anymore is it???

[broken seal]

difficult doesn't mean unfair

[minor sparrow]

The main argument is that it's not unfair, not that it's not hard

[inland sparrow]

If you came into this chat just to ask for the game I will politely ask you to leave

[minor sparrow]

Which it's not unfair, it's just hard

[desert compass]

yeah but easy for you doesn’t make it easier overall…

[tight viper]

It’s genuinely hard, but it is objectively not unfair because of how much shit you have access to by this point

[devout sail]

Ok

[light swan]

yea this was half motivated by a skill issue but i did try to talk about stuff that wasnt just "difficult" but more stuff that contracted the game design

[tight viper]

It is only unfair if you make it unfair by being stubborn and rushing progress

[broken seal]

i'm not denying the gauntlet is hard, because it is a skill check. But many people DRASTICALLY overstate the difficulty and then resort to saying it's unfair or bad

i NEVER said it was easy dude 😭

[desert compass]

hm wait true

I guess in that one interview the team did say we had access to make shit easier

[sharp slate]

I willl say it here it was easy af

[desert compass]

through exploration

[sharp slate]

im just kidding mostly

[desert compass]

yo great ragebait if I was mean 🙏🙏🙏

no but I mean I beat it in 5 tries it was a nice gauntlet

[tight viper]

It can be made comically easy if you go out and get everything in Act 2

[broken seal]

yeah, if you're struggling, then you can upgrade yourself further and come back later

[sharp slate]

Silksong was easy for me due to how many hours in hk but i can still see how some sections are difficult xD

[timid sky]

Not comically

[desert compass]

now this is just a personal belief dont attack me anymore I see all your pov’s, I still think its unfair PERSONALLY though and that might just be a skill issue

[tight viper]

Yes comically

[timid sky]

It definitely gets simpler, but not to a point where it's ridiculously easy

[tight viper]

It is piss easy if you go grab volt filament and sharpdart

[desert compass]

it probably is but I do think it wouldn’t be fun anymore if in the next patch they made it easier

[light swan]

so everyone is ignoring every problem i had with hhg 💔

[midnight jasper]

Shakra makes the High Halls gauntlet easy

[light swan]

i dont think making it easier would fix the problem

[desert compass]

I read it

[broken seal]

i missed that mb

[light swan]

it would just make the problem inoffensive

like palestag

or zango

[midnight jasper]

Can you give me a tldr

[loud junco]

I'm so excited, I 'm about to go into the abyss. I hope it's gonna be easy

[midnight jasper]

It's fun

Go explore it

[tight viper]

As well as the 2 pale oils, the tool pouch upgrades, 9 masks, 9 spools, etc

[loud junco]

okay

[light swan]

no

[midnight jasper]

Don't miss Farsight

[light swan]

every bit of what i say matters

[tight viper]

There is so much shit you can grab before the Forum

[loud junco]

I'm in that bell or smth

[timid sky]

Forksight

[minor sparrow]

Clawline solved most of the problems I had with hhg

[desert compass]

now I completely disregard the shakra and G&Z argument because no, a majority of players DONT know how to make that work and hell how to drag either G&Z and Shakra to the high halls gauntlet.

I actually spent 30 hours of my playtime glued to the wiki and even I DIDNT know that was even possible.

[hexed sonnet]

how do i get to bilewater?

[tight viper]

Sin

[desert compass]

hint: do a bad thing…

[light swan]

so eveyrone is ignoring everything i said about hhg

[desert compass]

let me reread it

[hexed sonnet]

where tho

[midnight jasper]

She just appeared in front of the gauntlet for me

[broken seal]

i don't think gauntlets are fundamentally bad. the chaos is an aspect of it, but even then if you slow down and play carefully, you can get yourself out of scary situations and still fight like it's a skill test like bosses

[desert compass]

ill be devils advocate this time

[light swan]

im pretty sure 80% of it is not a skill issue

[midnight jasper]

Secret wall in Sinner's Road

[desert compass]

this is for ppl curious btw its not that long bruh

[minor sparrow]

Sure

[light swan]

there is a difference between management and awareness, and random bullshit go

[tight viper]

It’s a valid argument, a player who isn’t stubborn and decides to go explore other shit first can end up doing Trail’s End

[broken seal]

it's random bullshit go but it's reactable and manageable random bullshit

[light swan]

id say a lot of the stuff in hhg is just random bullshit go

[tight viper]

Or a keen-eyed player in the Vaults can find outer Songclave, and then G&Z

[light swan]

being reactable doesnt make it not bullshit

[pliant sable]

i hate ckk

cries

[sharp slate]

Ill go off bullet points

1. Is it really overloading enemies, 3 enemies max in a HUGE room.
2. Yea flying enemies are annoying, guessing they were trying to implement clawline strats
3. Doudle damage isnt too major in the fight imo unless its the final wave
4. Yea its an endurance test whch is fine imo, each melody has its own test, endurance, parkour, boss fight

Small sidenote, its not that hard to heal in the fight if you bait enemies, but in your first playthrough its hard to get that straight down tbh

[broken seal]

gauntlets require you to play incredibly carefully and be aware of everything happening, the challenge is because of how much is happening. It's a different kind of difficult from most bosses, but that doesn't make it bad.

[midnight jasper]

1. Agreed they're annoying but I feel like if you give it a bit of focus you can beat them
2. You can get rid of all Clawmaidens in a secret area next to the gauntlet
3. Agreed it's a bit difficult but overall I would say just throw Pimpillos at them
4. They're dodgeable and I wouldn't say they're too bad but definitely not the easiest

[tight meadow]

Does anyone use clawline in combat

[tight viper]

It’s not bullshit, the enemies all make sense for this gauntlet

[timid sky]

Speedrunner achievement 🔥

[tight meadow]

Genuinely does anyone

[timid sky]

Sometimes

[desert compass]

the maiden argument is valid ngl, there is almost 0 way to find out how to get rid of those guys unless you go through every wall in the citadel or punch that specific trolley in high halls.

The double damage is also valid because even though for a big room they compensate by making most of the enemies deal fucking double damage where cross stitch or sharpdart becomes necessary

[light swan]

why does everyone assume that im complaining about the difficulty

[tight viper]

Every enemy is a veiled servant of the Citadel

[tight viper]

Of course

[broken seal]

Many people do, as it's very strong

[tight meadow]

Khann

[midnight jasper]

Just turn Clawmaidens off

[timid sky]

Mossgrub

[void moat]

my goat!

[midnight jasper]

Me

[tight viper]

In the Forum

[desert compass]

read above, most people dont know HOW

[tight viper]

Every enemy in the forum

[tight meadow]

which ones that

[fresh oracle]

hhg has never been enjoyable even when i aced silksong

[void moat]

choir clappers are armored not veiled..

[desert compass]

by assumption most enemies that come are permanent

[tight viper]

Hhg

[timid sky]

Shakra

[desert compass]

high halls gauntlet

[sharp slate]

Overall i think only problem i got with HHG is the flying enemies, just so annoying to kill (unfun way imo)

[tight meadow]

Ohhh

[fresh oracle]

yeah, the way to disable clawmaidens is so hyper specific that 99% of players aren't gonna figure it out.

[tight viper]

It’s still a veil, just an armored one

[midnight jasper]

Valid, but I think Shakra makes it a bit easy, she's also like literally 1 room away from the gauntlet and if you simply speak to her you can get a ton of help

[tight meadow]

Well duh it specifically uses citadel enemies

[fresh oracle]

honestly you in general will suffer enjoying silksong if you don't look up a lot of shit out.

[tight viper]

Ministers aren’t veiled but that’s because they’re ministers

[void moat]

i enjoyed my first playthough

[tight viper]

They serve the conductors directly, of course they would be there

[broken seal]

She only appears if you first complete the entirety of Trails End, which most people don't do before reaching hhg

[tight viper]

Not just citadel enemies, but specifically veiled ones

[minor sparrow]

That only really applies to like 3 things, being reaching act 3, claw maidens, and the mist, 4 if you're counting completion

[desert compass]

the issue I have with hhg is the argument for it in which you should “explore more”. If you have to explore more than 50% of the area pre-citadel to consider the high halls gauntlet FAIR, that makes it unfair.

This game is about using your needle and that mentality has been baked into us the moment we started the game.

[tight viper]

No ordinary pilgrims

[broken seal]

this just isn't true 😭

[tight meadow]

Like the mask thingies

[timid sky]

Now all that's left is

[toxic vigil]

flea dodge :D

[desert compass]

its true because I experienced it lol call it a skill issue or whatever 💔

[light swan]

1. id say 3 enemies, especially the type of enemies, ends up being overloading especially since theyre all flying and the bell guys leave shit on the ground
2. dont remember my problem with this it was likely just a skill issue
3. problem is with red tools, since theyre kinda the most useful for crowd control but impossible in such a long gauntlet like this

[minor sparrow]

The game is about exploring and that's been baked into the genre

[timid sky]

The fleas make a perfect quadrilateral

[sharp slate]

eh disagree

[versed pollen]

Two things can be true

[broken seal]

we're saying IF you struggle a lot THEN you should go upgrade yourself more. The game is a metroidvania, which are ALL ABOUT map exploration. This argument makes 0 sense

[toxic vigil]

act 1 and 2? nah
act 3? yes

[fresh oracle]

is it just me, or am i so tired of poor mechanics and shitty game design being excused with "IT'S BECAUSE OF THE LOREE!!!"

[light swan]

2. i didnt know that when writing that
3. i didnt have pimpillo when writing that, also the gauntlet is long enough that pimpillos will likely run out

[versed pollen]

It's funny as fuck that way

[fresh oracle]

opposite for me tbh, act 3 is way more linear and upfront, with little you need to do.

well unless ur counting the pale nails

[broken seal]

elaborate

[minor sparrow]

Depends on what in particular you're talking about

[light roost]

Im at act 2 after clockwork dancers and 11 hours of gameplay. do you guys have advice what should i do ?

[light swan]

making sense doesnt equal Not Bullshit

[versed pollen]

Blow up everybody in that Bucks arena

[minor sparrow]

Except that bullshit means that it either doesn't make sense or isn't fair

[broken seal]

Go down from where you fought them and head east towards the Whispering Vaults. If you have the map unlocked, go to the big wheel and go horizontal instead of vertical.

[midnight jasper]

You can save Pimpillos for the oreo bee controlling guy and use the rest on anything u want

[sharp slate]

1. I think thats just a problem with flying enemies, which i agree with you too a degree, we can look at vaults gaunlet and that was a good one, 2 flying 2 grounded.
2. Fair
3. Red tools are just weird in longer shit, same thing with coral tower, don't know how you actually fix this, i kinda ignore red tools point because shell shards make them fucked anyway lmfao, i see your point on red tools though

[toxic vigil]

nyleth heart
karmelita heart

[minor sparrow]

Maybe use a different word to convey your point, because you're overlapping meanings

[versed pollen]

Red tools feel like a bigger issue than just gauntlets

[light swan]

1. i think theres only like 2 grounded enemies in all of hhg lol
2. fair

[desert compass]

counterpoint WHY should a melody make you struggle so hard?

In hollow knight the hardest thing was exploration for the dreamers 😭😭😭 and I fully agree that the watcher knights were kinda bullshit first try but they were fairer than the hhg. So was Uumuu. You could even reduce a knight if you broke the chandelier.

big gauntlet room benefit is countered by 2/3rd’s of the enemies being summoned doing double damage.

I do agree that we should explore more though to get better.

[tight viper]

It isn’t bullshit in any sense. The enemy placements are consistent (clawmaidens are an exception but they’re robots so w/e), the attacks are fair and counterable

[light roost]

I use the thing to sharpen the needle

[tight viper]

Just hit the bells back at them

[light swan]

in this case it isnt fair

[tight viper]

Don’t position yourself poorly

[light swan]

makes sense but isnt fair in a gameplay perspective

[versed pollen]

Like enemy variety? There are at least two grounded melee enemies and the clappers

[tight viper]

Recognize that the enemy spawns have symmetry

[sharp slate]

eh a bit more i would say, but yea i would say 80% gaunlet is flying,

[minor sparrow]

I think red tools would be fine if they were just limited by use per bench, bit then idk what to do with architect

[void moat]

hhg sucks the karak gauntlets are so much better

[light swan]

i can only remember the grounded slashing guys, the small grand reeds

and of course clappers

[desert compass]

I personally believe if you have to spend more time understanding the gauntlet more than you have fun understanding the gauntlet, it is unfair.

[toxic vigil]

fuckk

[light swan]

thats valid

[desert compass]

high score though! good shit

[sharp slate]

total grounded enemies are 1 sword 1 lance first wave, 2 sword guys another, 1 choir clapper, 1 sword guy somewhere mixed in i think, 2 choir clappers,

[solar rock]

Ho guys who do y'all think has the lowest and highest cortisol in silksong

[toxic vigil]

im trying to beat seth before he goes to fleatopia

[void moat]

highest cortisol is hornet

[desert compass]

lowest cortisol: sherma
highest cortisol: the fanbase.

[versed pollen]

This sounds about right

[inland sparrow]

Sherma lowest highest hornet

[final tapir]

@slender juniper im your biggest enemy

[tight viper]

It doesn’t take long at all to understand that the enemy spawns are all symmetrical

[void moat]

her cloak gets redder the more cortisol she has, thats why its darker in hk

[solar rock]

Ye that's obv

[light swan]

forgot about the hammer boy

[slender juniper]

Opps from today

[inland sparrow]

He has a point

[tight viper]

If an enemy spawns on the left, one will spawn on the right

[minor sparrow]

The callout is crazy

[void moat]

lowest cortisol is pilgrim preacher

[broken seal]

Because it's a harder game than HK? You can't make comparisons about difficulty just because they're made by the same team. Silksong is SUPPOSED to be more difficult. If you're struggling at hhg to an insane degree, either 1. You need to go back and explore more to get more upgrades/hone your skills at the game because you're underpowered from missing upgrades you were expected to have (true for ANY metroidvania and honestly MOST games that are structured like this) or 2. You're not very good at the game, which means you go back and explore to over-upgrade to adjust for your skill level

[tight viper]

Enemies can spawn in the center, but just don’t stand in the immediate center

[light swan]

the bullshit stuff is much more of a subjective thing in my textwall

[final tapir]

muhahahaha im the cooler edition of you

[solar rock]

I feel lace has pretty low cortisol

[light swan]

because i wasnt good enough to manage so much at the same time

[desert compass]

but it takes long to understand the combinations in which the enemies spawn that gives you a disadvantage + literally no one expected a double big guy combo after the first one

[versed pollen]

I did

[tight hull]

cooler daniel

[slender juniper]

Reaper deserves the hate

[minor sparrow]

Tbf I kind of did after the arena didn't end after the first one

[tight viper]

If you didn’t expect the big guy to return, that’s on you

[slender juniper]

Somebody me

[void moat]

her cortisol is higher than a kite

[light swan]

peeper crest

[tight meadow]

Any hunter haters

[versed pollen]

Hashtag owned

[minor sparrow]

Positivity is cooler so nah

[tight meadow]

With it in the name

[broken seal]

then you come back and fight again once you've gotten experience. you're expected to learn from your deaths and come back to adapt from them. You don't in Steel Soul because it's the challenge mode intended for AFTER you've beaten the game already

[final tapir]

holy reaper... forget him reaper

[sharp slate]

reaper is used for low jump so its based hear me out

[fresh oracle]

One of my complaints about Bilewater is that it didn't feel enjoyable at all, not even in the interesting sense. especially with bilewater's final boss (forgot his name.) An extermely hard boss without purity, and it doesn't even feel rewarding. You just get an required key item to progress into act 3 and an pathway to PD.

Now, why would I have an issue with the reward if it's required?

Because it makes the boss less enjoyable. It feels like a chore you need to do, because you don't really get rewarded with a new tool, money, or a mask shard, you just get given a required item. That's is. So it doesn't benefit you mechanically until you want to head into act 3.

And the runback to him is painful. If you didn't find the secret bench (good luck trying to find it -- it's in an breakable wall in hole #9393) you have to do a 3-5 minute runback every time you die.

Anyways all of this is nullified because "BILEWATER WAS INTENDED TO BE PAINFUL!!"

yeah get my point?

[minor sparrow]

Bro I got fucking jumpscared

[slender juniper]

60% circlet 20% clawline

[light swan]

100% misinformation

[void moat]

drink it all before it spoils like that one milk demon on tiktok that was popular 4 years ago

[slender juniper]

100%

[void moat]

https://tenor.com/view/guy-creepy-dance-larry-soggy-nugget-real-demon-hours-gif-15698538108543727632

[tight viper]

And you don’t need to know which enemy spawns when. You just need to know how to handle that particular enemy after it spawns. You should know how to do that by this point. Excluding the Choir Clapper, of course, but even then you will have learned its attacks from the first one, preparing you for the duo

[broken seal]

enjoyability is subjective. i understand your gripe with groal, but the boss itself isn't as hard as many believe, it just feels worse because the runback is so intense.

[versed pollen]

Yea I can't even lie I found the bench instantly maybe I'm just goated and that's the difference

[tight meadow]

@tight viper can you fwssh bird guy

[tight viper]

There is nothing remotely unfair or unreasonable about the Forum.

[tight viper]

Who?

[tight meadow]

The bird king

Crawfatger - sry playing terraria rn

[broken seal]

crawfather?

[toxic vigil]

why is seth juggle 55

[tight viper]

Oh Crawfather

[light swan]

bilewater was the most enjoyable part of silksong by far

[broken seal]

cuz he's good

[void moat]

cause hes goated at flea games

[tight viper]

Haven’t done it yet, holding off on it

[light swan]

groal and stilkin are the only problem about bilewater

[toxic vigil]

yea but he is still ass at bounce so

[fresh oracle]

I honestly find the boss way harder than Lost Lace without wealth purity. He's on the air for all of his fight, you have to fight a gauntlet beforehand, and the way he moves it makes it very very dangerous to try to stay near him.

[light swan]

but the area itself is absolutely peak and stilkin only spawn in 5 areas

[tight meadow]

Aw man, do you have a mod that lets you fight any boss any time tho?

[sharp slate]

I will always bitch about the hidden bench, but i dont mind rest of bilewater

[tight viper]

Groal’s arena could be shortened by a wave

[toxic vigil]

FUCK

[sharp slate]

The bench was specifically meant to be a "got you" type shit and it feels bad

[tight viper]

Pantheon of Pharloom

[light swan]

BILEWATER GLAZE

the enemy design, traps, maggotwater, and structure of the area creates such an interesting tension regarding danger

• enemies dont really threaten you, most respawn or are tanky to act as silk farms for players to combat the maggotwater, while also reinforcing awareness
• the traps encourage you to pay attention to the world around you, and it means youre never TRULY safe (despite there being little hazards and weak enemies) despite being easily overcame
• the maggotwater turns this idea of "paying attention" from passiveness into caution because you cant sit still and let all your silk drain, while also obviously acting as non-lethal punishment for messing up (and of course maggotwater works well with everything else)
• and of course, the lack of benches makes the area feel a LOT more dangerous than it actually is, and increases that sense of unease and "where the fuck am i" so much more
  everything balances eachother out perfectly and all funnel bilewater towards one singular beautiful purpose, which just screams "well designed" to me

also, the bloatroach rooms are fucking AMAZING

my only real complaint with bilewater are the stilkin
which ONLY SPAWN IN 5 FUCKING ROOMS btw
second biggest area in the game, yet only spawn in 5 rooms

• keep in mind, 2 of those rooms you will never go back to
• another 2 are rooms where you can EASILY run/jump past them
• the last room is bad yea but its not a part of the groal runback so that helps a bit ig

[versed pollen]

Yea but it's really easy to punish him with the clawline after each attack and he has very little HP

[tight meadow]

But isn't that every boss in a row

[desert compass]

yes I do agree with you that it is a way harder game than hk, I withdraw some of my earlier statements, what DOESNT make it fun however is the argument of needing to explore “more” whilst it is a metroidvania, presumably you already HAVE the tools needed because you get the cogflies on your way to the hhg, any sane player we’ll assume has about 6-7 (dont even joke) masks and/or fractured mask or pollip pouch for red tools like tacks or hell the spikes. If you expect someone to overprepare for a gauntlet because it’s either they are “bad” or “underprepared” whilst saying it’s different for everybody, then it is a bit rude no???

[tight viper]

It has individual refights

[tight meadow]

Remember the full mantis family mod? Hear me out when I say lace 2 and phantom

[light swan]

i completely expected the bilewater bench its just so charming

and theres a silk refill right outside of the exit from it isnt it

[tight meadow]

Wait and gms

[light swan]

silken sisters mod

[light swan]

lost and chained mod

[tight meadow]

And lost sinner and bwahaha person

[desert compass]

true on this one i guess actually

[minor sparrow]

I think the bench thing is fine to be upset with, but as for groal, purity ring is definitely not necessary to play with and have fun as every time I've fought groal without it. Play groal like nyleth and you'll have more fun, imo. Bilewater being generally annoying is honestly fine, it's not absurdly difficult, it's just mostly traps, which makes sense for someone who had their home desecrated. I can understand not liking the explanation of something being lore relevant and therefor more difficult or tedious especially if you don't care about lore, but if you asked why it's like this and TC has the lore in mind when they designed it, I would expect the same answer

[tight meadow]

Not sister splinter the other bwahaha person

[tight viper]

That equipment is absolutely enough to do the Forum without it feeling brutal

[light swan]

i dont like how the main problem with bilewater is always groal

bilewater is an area not a bossfight

[tight viper]

It will be a hard fight, but not insanely hard

[tight meadow]

Ngl I loved bilewater

[broken seal]

i'm saying either they missed upgrades and are underprepared or they have an issue of not being super good so they need to get a few extra upgrades or go play the game more to get better to adjust for their lower skill

[desert compass]

so why is it that with a sane player having that equipment, some of them still say it’s unfair?

[dim cypress]

Is there a confirmed timeframe for release of the dlc?

[tight viper]

They’re bad

Simple as that

[minor sparrow]

I think groal is pretty encompassing of the area honestly. He's like a summary in boss form

[fresh oracle]

heavy agree, i concede in that silksong is a better game than hk but hk is way more consistent with its enjoyability for me.

The issue with silksong for me is that it heavily punishes people on the lower skill end. Which just causes people to feel more frustrated.

@minor sparrow it's easier to dodge nyleth than groal, with nyleth all of her attacks have indicators, while with groal he can suddenly shift towards you when you try to damage him, cqc is a bad idea with groal

[tight meadow]

Try fwwshing the sisters mod the guy mentioned (lace 2 and phantom)

[broken seal]

#tomorrow

[dim cypress]

Fraud tomorrow

[fresh oracle]

i saw a reddit post explain it more in depth

[tight meadow]

Groal diving pisses me off to no end

[tight viper]

Going to do base game bosses first

[light swan]

hes a really damn bad summary and therefore shouldnt be a summary

[tight meadow]

Groal diving ended like 2 of my runs

[minor sparrow]

Groal's indicator is him drifting towards you which is pretty funny

[desert compass]

you do know im one of those guys and i beat lace 2 first try right i think being bad is subjective here now 😭

[dim cypress]

Precise bee mentioned

[fresh oracle]

last judge is the easiest boss once you use any crest but reaper

especially with wanderer

[tight meadow]

YEAHHH

[slender juniper]

Who

[dim cypress]

The pfp

[tight meadow]

The guys pfp

[fresh oracle]

why is wanderer crest so hated? i unironically think it's the best crest by a landslide

[light swan]

at least everyone is agreeing with my valid takes

[tight viper]

You were bad at the Forum, or salty and stubborn

[tight meadow]

Here

[desert compass]

no because genuinely speaking yes I personally dont believe it is as unfair as some people say but it is STILL unfair, even just a little bit

[slender juniper]

Its hated for the opposite reason

[tight viper]

It isn’t even close to unfair

[tight meadow]

Guys how do I change the font of my discord name

[minor sparrow]

It's not hated per say, it's just boring

[tight viper]

It would be unfair if it had 5 more waves including spawns of 4 enemies at a time and ending with 3 clappers

[light swan]

its hated because its simple and boring i think

the skill floor is way lower, you dont have to be good to have a crazy amount of success

[tight viper]

And even that would only be unfair if you didn’t explore and grab damn near everything in act 2

[minor sparrow]

Absurd reference that no one here would get, it's like in a game where you get all of these weapons with cool moves and combos and stuff then you pick the gun with like 2 inputs

[tight meadow]

Guys how do I change the font of my discord name like this guy

[desert compass]

that doesnt make people feel better what 😭😭😭 unfair is because people didn’t play silksong for an endurance test

[tight meadow]

I think that's exo

[fresh oracle]

which crest has the highest dps

or uh. dps "potential"

[broken seal]

People dump on Wanderers because it's so good. It's easy to use and can trivialize many fights, and many people like to make fun of it or players who glaze it because of this. The crest is very strong, and that's why people make fun of it. And because it doesn't really have anything unique other than being very strong and the crit function, which is neat but isn't all that defining. Even without crit it would be very powerful

[tight meadow]

Wanderer

[tight viper]

Silksong is a long game, what?

[desert compass]

hhg is not a hard gauntlet it is an endurance test made based off of the assumption you knew what you were doing on your first playthrough.

[broken seal]

Beast

[fresh oracle]

ah so people think it's too OP

i hate to say but i agree

[tight viper]

Everyone should’ve gone into Silksong expecting it to test your endurance to an extent

[fresh oracle]

once you get wanderer there is little reason to switch off i can't lie

[tight meadow]

Wanderers if you get crit every time on your charge hit

[tough wolf]

Architect maybe?

[light swan]

beast needs to bind, hunter needs to play hitless, and witch needs to do a complicated combat tech chain of reverse dash attacks and animation cancels

JUST to match up with wanderer, a crest that does the same thing by spamming attacks regularly
@fresh oracle
also, the crest does not have much of a skill ceiling theres no specifically cool tech you can do on wanderer like you can on other crests, meaning its much less interesting

[desert compass]

yeah I agree, TO AN EXTENT

[tight meadow]

Someone said wanderers can do like 400+ dmg potentially or something stupid

[clear wagon]

I didn't use Wanderer in my main playthrough except for hhg

[fresh oracle]

i don't think this is a good thing tbh

[tight viper]

The Forum is not some major individual endurance test

[tight meadow]

I did 😭

[broken seal]

would actually make battles take longer in real time. the game freezes very briefly on hit which pauses in game time passing but it still makes the real time longer.

[desert compass]

it is actually made to be one though considering the amounts of complaints it gets

[tough wolf]

Yeah same

[south cape]

Alr, I beat Lost Sinner. Now I'm on act 3 bosses

[sharp slate]

People just rag on wanderers because they call it boring, to each their own tbh, my only issue is there are people unironcally calling it unskilled crest because it doesnt have any gimmick

[tight meadow]

When I flayed this game I knew it would be painful. Now I have thousands of rosaries and nothing to buy

[tight viper]

It’s made based on the assumption that you actually fought enemies of the Choir and didn’t just blow past em all

[desert compass]

there is a reason we hear more about disliking hhg than the GROAL THE GREAT gauntlet.

[minor sparrow]

I don't think complaint = intention

[sharp slate]

its the 2nd biggest endurance test besides coral tower in skong

[tight meadow]

Coral tower was easy ngl

[tight viper]

Complaints of the stubborn and salty

[fresh oracle]

honestly groal the great deserves more hate

[tight meadow]

Took me 2 tries ¯⁠\⁠(⁠°⁠_⁠o⁠)⁠/⁠¯

[minor sparrow]

Cause groal gauntlet is just pogo the gauntlet and is not usually brought up separate of the boss

[broken seal]

every other crest has some kind of tech or cool interactions, while Wanderers is just spamming and face tanking. It can do cool stuff with Circlet but so can every crest and most crests have unique interactions with it, Wanderers is just the normal spam + circlet shenanigans slapped on top

[sharp slate]

goral deserves more hate for his hitbox more than anything, the amount of times that fuck floated into me on hitless attempts is annoying

[tight meadow]

Guantlet for GtG made me start using poison bots

[tight viper]

Compared to the rest of the game, sure it takes more endurance, but it doesn’t take some colossal dedication of effort

It’s not a damn thesis

[sharp slate]

skill ceiling thing is weird to me because i feel like no one is even at top skill ceiling yet for other crests so its irrevelvant

[desert compass]

more like complaints about how beneficial items will be locked behind breakable walls not seen by the masses until you open the wiki, see quick sling for example i dont think even you can defend that 😭😭😭

[tight viper]

You’re killing bugs, not writing your dissertation

[fresh oracle]

ngl this might be a hot take but the devs need to get out a godhome-like dlc for silksong before anything else

[minor sparrow]

I don't think tower is a bigger endurance test mostly cause you can just choose to take a break in the middle

[tight meadow]

As a hunters crest main it's not that easy to stay in the air 😞 (until I got good with the pogo)

[hexed sonnet]

i have unfortunately found bilewater

[fresh oracle]

not being able to repeat bosses is such a massive drawback

[sharp slate]

maybe when game is out for a year we will see skill ceiling actually matter for other crests

[tight viper]

Most of the walls are perfectly visible

Damn near all of em

[tight meadow]

It's only what, 4 floors?

[tight viper]

Including Quick Sling

[broken seal]

nobody is truly at the top ngl, but there are a few who are close. i'd count illusion2 (the guy you're talking to not me lol) as a pretty strong contender for one of these advanced players

[tight meadow]

And it gives you 3 extra silk avg per floor

Starting with max -1 for going in but there's 5 silks worth before you even start

[minor sparrow]

I mean I don't agree because they should finish actually implementing all the bosses and mechanics first so if they do decide to implement a pantheon-like dlc, it can be balanced around the previous ones