sk-discussion

[formal karma]

Maybe I'll give it a go. But I still love Against the Storm and they have a new update

[cerulean sable]

and then youll see a fucking goblin arm get tossed to the side

on top of like, fully simulating everything down from skin, fat, nerve, bone, tissue, etc

its satisfying to break someone's spine by a stab and render them immobile enough to finish them off

[formal karma]

[cerulean sable]

its not about the grisliness but more on "wow this game actually simulates every minute detail"

vs to "hit head lol get +25% extra critical damage"

[formal karma]

Maybe I don't recall the game as well as I though- I thought it was.more rimworldy

[cerulean sable]

rimworld is a fraction of simulation DF has and this is someone who loves Rimworld

[rapid topaz]

the thing that is crazy is that the OG version was super complex and cool already back in the days even though I think it was still niche
well, computer games in general were for a niche I guess anyways

but Dwarf fortress was special

[jade canopy]

Damn is that the new deer rock galactic update ? I know they were announcing it today, but I though it was later…

[cerulean sable]

my biggest issue with Rimworld is how artificial and gamey it can be which is fine but being sent 100 man raids just because the storyteller said "youve had it too easy, time for a huge wave thats probably 10x the population size of this faction just because of negative numbers"

in DF i got pissed during a Goblin Civ war that i repeatedly raided a nearby town they were using to stage their attacks, their attacks immediately stopped
or the very least got super delayed because they needed to travel way way way farther to my fortress

[cerulean sable]

its still niche but its unmatched simulation is still what keeps it going

[rapid topaz]

DF maps on the original looked like this and it was great for its time, super neat generation

[cerulean sable]

yeah they looked good

but after that i used tilesets but they had the tile number limit

towns had to reuse the stairs tiles for example

at least in DF steam they look way way better

[rapid topaz]

Insane!

[formal karma]

Maybe I'll grab it later

[cerulean sable]

honestly i think someone once said they made an RPG and to make a map they just kept running the DF map generator until they said "looks good enough"

ehhh again you might not like it that much, its more focused in simulation

[formal karma]

That wetland on the right

[cerulean sable]

for what its worth a lot of city builders dont have the simulation but ofc theyre better as played games

[formal karma]

Wetland bestland

[cerulean sable]

if that makes sense

[rapid topaz]

I think it's kinda those games were a single playthrough can last weeks if you get involved in it, 'cause you'll think about almost every actions as they have consequences and all

[cerulean sable]

on the flipside

if you "win" so to say it gets boring

[rapid topaz]

yeah I heard

[cerulean sable]

cuz unlike other games that rubberbands the difficulty with more events or what not, DF is more like "if you fuck up, well youll fuck up. but get past that and realistically nothing bad should happen unless YOU cause it intentionally"

[formal karma]

Against the storm lasts an hour or so... but starting over is the fun part imo

[cerulean sable]

yeah thats the advantage of the meta progression system

though DF allows you to replay on the same world

and you can revisit your old fort, its more of a cool historical thing and most of the time players generate new worlds everytime

[rapid topaz]

I'm looking torwards frostpunk 2 also I think this will be great, not the same genre but that fits my expectations a lot

DF is fascinating but probably way too much time consuming

[opaque sigil]

DF is definitely fascinating but my pea brain can't relax while playing it

[cerulean sable]

yeah, though im gonna wait FP2 out cuz some of the reviews on the beta is a bit concerned with the current balance and the UI

[cerulean sable]

imo its not that hard to get into but youll eventually learn the little nuisances

one of my favorite details is foreign weapons that are used by humans like pikes and longswords arent usable by your average dwarf, but if say a human or other larger entity joins your fort and becomes a citizen, when you draft them you can give them those weapons because theyre larger/strong enough

alternatively if you have a genetically unique dwarf that has a REALLY large enough body to pass as a human's they can wield those weapons no problem

[delicate viper]

what is DF

[ashen cobalt]

dwarf fortress

[coral prawn]

Devil fruit iirc

[naive oyster]

DragonForce

[formal karma]

Doom furby

[ashen cobalt]

dollow fight dilkfong

[cunning geode]

https://tenor.com/view/halo-halo2-elite-sangheili-greetings-gif-25839730

[coral prawn]

I rather die then use a vending mashine

I don't trust that shit

[cunning geode]

how about both?

[coral prawn]

Both?

[cerulean sable]

would you rather be the Medieval II: Total War | Main Menu Background in 4K with Music video instead? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0jBc4OjWORw

[fiery burrow]

Mods, crush him with a vending machine

[surreal remnant]

wrong then/than, remove their kidneys

[coral prawn]

English is stupid and I hate it

[slate rampart]

https://tenor.com/view/hazbin-hotel-alastor-hello-hello-there-greetings-gif-25220824

[coral prawn]

Bye

[dapper topaz]

Any silkers in chat?

[coral prawn]

Your not necro smh

[dapper topaz]

Shrue

[fiery burrow]

🪡

[kindred pewter]

the silk is dry

we need more silkers to silk

[dapper topaz]

[placid ether]

i can feel it songers

the silk is close upon us

[fervent spear]

[placid ether]

believe it or not but it's going to be amazing

to get to play silksong, talk to you all about it

[fervent spear]

we just got to believe 🤞

[placid ether]

getting to know every corner of pharloom

it's going to be even better than HK!

Team Cherry chose to share as little as possible with us

and blessed us with an incredible spoiler free first run

we have to make it count, for them and for us

[formal karma]

Except for all the boss reveals

But yes agreed

[fervent spear]

I feel like Silksong's going to be like fighting San's in Undertale for the first time, but it's all the way through the game

[coral prawn]

Why did you spell sans like that?

[fervent spear]

I thought it looked weird LOL

just a typo

[marsh ibex]

morgen

[fervent spear]

my brain likes to add ' to words that end with s if I'm not careful

[marsh ibex]

why

[fervent spear]

Not in a bad way, I just mean I hope silksong is going to be challenging. I also admire the hell out of the Sans fight and I hope to hold Silksong in that high of regard

[marsh ibex]

it won’t

be that way

[fervent spear]

[marsh ibex]

that sort of difficulty throughout a metroidvania isn’t well designed and it would go against their philosophy of having it be a fairly self contained thing

[young saffron]

hollow knight was pretty difficult at first (for most people I think)

hornet took alottt of tries

but towards mid game it became easier and they still presented a more difficult option of fighting some bosses (dreamer bosses) which was nice

[coral prawn]

Which I find surprising

[placid ether]

has anyone tried another's crab treasure?

[warped rock]

🪡🕷️

[charred pulsar]

Yeah for the average person even Hornet 1 is a challenge. Which yknow, 7 years later and all of us in a Discord about the game, hard to believe yeah

[cunning geode]

kaizo silksong

[coral prawn]

The hornet fight

[warped rock]

it releases in two hours

i wanna so badly

[placid ether]

The average player has little experience in 2D games

[coral prawn]

I love making games unfun

[young saffron]

I think hollow knight was alot of peoples introduction to a metroidvania, even if they have played a game like ori before the combat does not really translate between the 2 games

[placid ether]

Celeste is much harder than Hollow Knight, both in average and in late game challenges

[coral prawn]

It was mine...

[young saffron]

and mine lol

[placid ether]

Good reviews so far?

[warped rock]

it hasnt released

[fervent spear]

yeah that's understandable, I'm more speaking from myself, but I feel like every boss in HK I died to at least once 😂 I'm not great at games like HK, but there's a few boss fights I'd put on par to the Sans fight

[nimble radish]

hornet 1 is, at least, a straight forward boss
false knight cheats

[young saffron]

played hollow knight afterwards, funnily enough I think I tried hollow knight in 2017? or I think late 2018 and absolutely hated it. Rage quitted at mantis village cause the direction of where to go was confusing. came back in 2020

[coral prawn]

You can't really compare those two

[marsh ibex]

every game is difficult when you’re learning the ropes

[young saffron]

celeste isnt a metroidvania :v

[marsh ibex]

HK isn’t a difficult game by any means

[placid ether]

Well, I compare them as 2D games

[young saffron]

SPEAKING OF celeste, man I feel like they did difficulty well (I know alot of ppl hate the b sides , c sides)

[warped rock]

its pretty tough on the first playthrough

[placid ether]

I love them, chapter 9 is amazing

[marsh ibex]

a lot of the early game is just grappling with the movement and learning the ropes

[young saffron]

and the thing with hornet there is no dash or double jump lol

[placid ether]

I believe Celeste's Farewell is one of the hardest official things in any videogame

[young saffron]

or even a wall climb?

[placid ether]

I might be wrong

[young saffron]

i fking love farewell

and then after you finish the B side C side and farewell, boom golden strawberries. absolutely insane 💀

[marsh ibex]

it is time…

to continue

[young saffron]

even after the golden straws, moonberry and any other hidden collectibles you are sitll not done with the game

[marsh ibex]

I shall return

[placid ether]

For me 7C was more frustrating than 9

[young saffron]

if you play the chapter for the first time, without dying once, collecting all the items. along with meeting the same conditions for that chapters B side and C side. in your completion list you receive a gold check mark

meaning you actually gotta do the entire game flawlessly to truly complete it 😭

[placid ether]

I played Celeste until I got all the achievements

[fervent spear]

[placid ether]

Moonberry was my last

[young saffron]

I did everything until golden strawberries

I got some but never completed it

[placid ether]

Did you do 1A dash-less?

[young saffron]

yep

was absolute torture the first time (since this was my first introduction to spike jumps etc)

[robust pecan]

what event is the pin referring to?

[young saffron]

29th IDXBOX showcase

[robust pecan]

ah

[young saffron]

oh shoot I didnt do moonberry

[placid ether]

It's meh, just adds tension to the last Farewell screen

[lament coyote]

HELL

[young saffron]

first TC appearance since 2020? or 2021

[placid ether]

Edge magazine is their "last" appearance

[astral dagger]

Tbh I’m hoping the e3 demo releases.

[placid ether]

Probably not

That demo is probably running on a way too old build

[astral dagger]

But it would self-contain itself, would it not?

It would be… just the demo.

[placid ether]

I doubt it's that simple

[dapper topaz]

The content in the demo will probably change heavily

Basic concepts stay same tho

[fervent spear]

[astral dagger]

I know it is out of date.
But I still want it for archival purposes, to see differences between older builds and when it finally releases; silksong.

[dapper topaz]

You can just... compare the video with your actual game

That should suffice for a comparison, no?

[young saffron]

it will release I think in the future, by that I mean future futre

like a good year or 2 after silksong has been released

thats what happened with HK demo, it got sent here by graig lol

[dapper topaz]

[woeful matrix]

yo guys think silksong will release before july or after?

[young saffron]

Check out the beta here:
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1L7m9...

mossbag exploring the hollow knight beta
apparently this is from 2015 😭 (I mean the build not the release of it)

[dapper topaz]

Nah I ain't playing that lol

[young saffron]

before (june)

[dapper topaz]

The usual HK quality wins

And silksong will probably surpass that 2x or 3x

[fervent spear]

it's possible

we live in an era where silksong could drop tomorrow. We'll just have to see

[warped rock]

silksong summer release

trust

[young saffron]

silksong is like a bomb thats waiting to explode

[fervent spear]

along with the fanbase lol

[young saffron]

and IDXBOX HAS THE DETONATOR

I believe more in summer game fest though lol

[fervent spear]

same, if we're going to possibly get anything I think it'll be at SGF

[woeful matrix]

maybe the next like xbox showcase or smth

[placid ether]

ID Xbox is the way, follow me

[dapper topaz]

Fr lmao

And what's more intimidating is that we have literally not the slightest clue of the release

It might be tomorrow or a few months or years

[molten flame]

i was thinking about summer game fest commented to promote some attention to ID@XBOX

[warped rock]

what if both

[molten flame]

just my clown version, but i believe on Summer game fest

[dapper topaz]

Summer games has a chance, honestly

But just a chance lol

[formal karma]

With if neither

[warped rock]

they should have like a 0.5 second clip of silksong at the xbox thing

[fervent spear]

I hope if it's more years, TC will say something at least

[dapper topaz]

[fervent spear]

but with them being so silent, I feel it in my itty bitty feelers that it's on the horizon

[dapper topaz]

Nah no way

[fervent spear]

we get one frame of silksong LOL

then if you replay the feed it's not there

[formal karma]

I hope there's nothing so babies can cry about being baited

[dapper topaz]

Yeah but the problem is unless we actually get to know anything it just boils down to chances and amount of news and all that

Besides that it'll always feel like it's around the corner

[dapper topaz]

Like they did over III

[formal karma]

Exactly

[fiery burrow]

III was so INFURIATING

I'm not watching a single one of their events again

[full ledge]

Does jack vine have an account on here with the team cherry role or just the one he uses to troll

[formal karma]

It was decent

[cunning geode]

https://tenor.com/view/burn-flames-ahhh-yell-gif-14077714

[fervent spear]

I think only the release of Silksong will stop the spam in all the showcase chats

[formal karma]

I got a game out of III so its more successful than any other event lately

[formal karma]

The spammers can stop

[fervent spear]

They should but they won't

I think people will still be spamming "Silksong 2 when" even after the games release

[fiery burrow]

They'll just spam a different game

[fervent spear]

it's too much of a meme at this point

[wide quartz]

minecraft 2 when

[dapper topaz]

Spammers are just idiots

They ruin the event for other people too, not to mention they don't pay attention to any other game than the one they're always waiting for

[woeful matrix]

i'm bored of silksong when's silksong 2 coming out

[wide quartz]

fortnite when

[errant silo]

where terraria tbh

[valid sable]

Hollow Knight nail weapon mod for Terraria when

Oh there already is one, but I bet it doesn't work like I'd want

[errant silo]

be the change you wish to see in the world

[valid sable]

no u

[errant silo]

make the mod

[rich nexus]

anyone knows how big ss will be or theres absolutely no clues

[dapper topaz]

Yes. Make your own silksong.

[rich nexus]

i know the amount of enemies and stuff

[dapper topaz]

TC said there'll be about 100 benches

[errant silo]

we shall wait to the point of creation

[rich nexus]

hk has how many?

[fiery burrow]

Ew ew ew

[maiden valve]

-3

[rich nexus]

true

[dapper topaz]

50

[rich nexus]

wow

so basically double the areas

[fervent spear]

potentially

[dapper topaz]

Actually wait 51

[errant silo]

the day ss comes out is the day I become a hermit hornet for the rest of my life

[rich nexus]

im going to literally become hornet

[maiden valve]

Turns out theres another bench in every area where theres one ( for silksong)

[errant silo]

why is the strike through double squiggles bruh

[woeful matrix]

silksong completion percentage should be 217%

[maiden valve]

Cant whait to play as peter griffin when silksong is out

[errant silo]

bruh the DLC they probably have is gonna make it 2170%

[woeful matrix]

i think the game is gonna cost 20$

[maiden valve]

Holly crap lois im in silksong

[woeful matrix]

what do you guys think it will cost

[maiden valve]

$1

[warped rock]

15$

[errant silo]

probably closer to 30$ AUD

[fervent spear]

That's what I've been wondering. Aside from if they're still working on areas I wonder if they're potentially working on the DLC content to just get a jump on that. Then we'll have content updates for months to come after the release

[errant silo]

that might be apart of the big delay
work now instead of later ya know

[fervent spear]

Exactly

[errant silo]

and it'll give them time to work soley on bugs

both kinds of bugs

[fervent spear]

and there will be bugs

[woeful matrix]

only tc would be working on dlc content before the game releases

[placid ether]

What do you guys think is going to Hornet's i-frame standard move (the equivalent of Shadow Cloak dash)

[glacial wren]

they are in the bug fixing stage

[pastel silo]

They didn't talk about the total amount of them, but about the number of bench design variations. The total number is probably higher, or it was just a hyperbole.

[valid sable]

I hope they add an 80 boss boss rush dlc that counts towards percentage

[placid ether]

I vote for a static/aerial dodge, similar to smash

[coarse leaf]

silksong

[errant silo]

that stage never ends with the speed running community

[errant silo]

that would actually be so nice

[fervent spear]

🙏

[errant silo]

NOO

[valid sable]

YES

[errant silo]

PLS IM SO BAD (I'm stuck on big version of red fire guy) (nightmare grim)

[valid sable]

Fine, 100 BOSSES

[errant silo]

AHHHHHHHH

[woeful matrix]

pantheon of everything, every boss in hollow knight+every boss in silksong

[fervent spear]

[maiden valve]

50 times of the same boss its just lace lace2 lace3 lace4

[errant silo]

those daily people about to go crazy in that

[maiden valve]

And on and on again

[errant silo]

imagine an endless mode, where bosses repeat

[warped rock]

i hope there is a godhome equivalent

[errant silo]

and there's special versions of bosses

[maiden valve]

They get one new attack every time

[errant silo]

zote prince flashbacks

[valid sable]

I REALLY hope there is at some point. I think they said they won't on release, but who knows at this point

[cunning geode]

i hope there is an archvile equivalent 👹

[warped rock]

they need to have a way to replay bosses and i hope we get pantheons too

[maiden valve]

Silksong × zotesjourney

[errant silo]

I don't think I wanna know what zotesjourney is

[warped rock]

though i dont know how lore wise the godseekers would be there

[valid sable]

Silkseekers

[errant silo]

it'll proba be DLC tbh

[cunning geode]

The Zote Prince of Bug-Air

[dapper topaz]

Yeah, they didn't say if they're designs or the actual number.

[fiery burrow]

I don't think Silksong is getting DLC

HK got expansion packs because the game released unfinished

[placid ether]

press X to Doubt

[errant silo]

I need hope that we can replay bosses

[pastel silo]

It's implied that they talked about the number of bench types not their overall number

[fiery burrow]

Extra mode you get after unlocking the game

[warped rock]

they said they want the amount of content to be comparable to hollow knight, and most of the gameplay is in godhome

[valid sable]

lol

[woeful matrix]

i feel like ss release would break steam

[fiery burrow]

Godhome is not representative of most of HK's content

[errant silo]

ohh so base game silksong equivalent to right now HK?

[coarse leaf]

That is just not true lol

[woeful matrix]

i think its more

[errant silo]

Idk if I'm gonna live through the release of ss

[fervent spear]

honestly same

[warped rock]

i said like two statements in that

[pastel silo]

why would it be a dlc when they have enough money and time to include everything they want into the main game?

[fervent spear]

because DLC means more money? C'mon now

[coarse leaf]

Im disagreein with your second one

[errant silo]

they can't come up with every idea now
They gonna have more ideas probably

[fiery burrow]

[woeful matrix]

i think the dlcs will be free again

[errant silo]

same

[fiery burrow]

So then its not more money

[woeful matrix]

tc doesnt care about the money

[fervent spear]

They may, but HK released unfinished so the DLC was to also complete the game. Hardly any DLC now a days is free

[maiden valve]

You just go through the life that zote had in his Journey and you have to defeat the bosses he escaped from in his adventure to hollow nest, and the final boss is the deepnest cult.

[errant silo]

They practically went broke making hk

[placid ether]

Guys what is your most anticipated game besides Silksong?

[fiery burrow]

TC made expansion packs not DLC

[warped rock]

i like the price of hollow knight being so cheap, makes it easy to reccomend

[fervent spear]

Paper Mario: TTYD remake

[pastel silo]

That's why it's taking as long as it does, because they are making sure that all their ideas are implemented. They said themselves that they don't like making DLC's , they did some for HK because they ran out of time and money.

[wooden turret]

Diablo 4 Switch2 port

[placid ether]

that's close!

[woeful matrix]

theres other games coming out this year???

[fervent spear]

I'm too pumped

[errant silo]

I need to see this now
(I think zote is an entertaining character, not just annoying)

[fiery burrow]

Ideally they can pack as much content within the base game as they can since that allows more creativity and freedom

[fiery burrow]

Hyper Light Breaker

[placid ether]

I'm so excited for Monster Hunter Wilds

[fiery burrow]

MHWilds looks cool

[errant silo]

I'm waiting for next Nintendo console :(

[coarse leaf]

Yeah because everyones ridiculously greedy lol. The evidence we have suggests against TC being that

[placid ether]

Never knew what Drifter was about

[fiery burrow]

Its just exploration and combat

[maiden valve]

Me to it looks so beutiful

[fervent spear]

this thought makes me sad but ik you're right

same with PS6

[fiery burrow]

The combat feels great even if the enemy placement is wonky at times

[errant silo]

same, I'm not ready to move on

[woeful matrix]

nintendo please make windwaker remake again

[coarse leaf]

Its been like 6 years wdym

[wooden turret]

I'm worried the most about Hornet movement and traversing through map. In trailer we saw that she is able to use the traps she uses to pogo/bounce of them and reach higher platforms. I believe if there is a lot of tools, skills, they need to really revamp the map everytime they add something, just to make sure player won't be able to reach some places when they shouldn't

[placid ether]

The MH team is so goated, what an excellent job they did with Worldborne

[errant silo]

OMG PLEASE
I wanna play it so badd

[fervent spear]

Just, I get a Switch 2 being able to be backwards compatible, but if they remake the game carts again 😭

[placid ether]

I'm really craving a new Mario Kart

[errant silo]

I'm scared of the learning curve to controlling hornet, unless each move is like another powerup (which is unlikely)

[valid sable]

Windwaker 2: The Windening

[woeful matrix]

if switch2 isnt backwards compatible im not getting it

[fervent spear]

6 years and hardly many games to write home about

[maiden valve]

Probably gonna make the people who started with rise feel like its to hard hopefully not to hard to where they quit

[coarse leaf]

Dw they'll make a subscription service for it

[fiery burrow]

Imo the routing potential is what made HK awesome

[errant silo]

dont.

[fiery burrow]

Shade skips

[fervent spear]

😭

[coarse leaf]

[placid ether]

Eh, World is harder than Rise but not that much

[errant silo]

but hornet don't got that shade

[warped rock]

risk of rain world

[fiery burrow]

She has a silk cocoon

[errant silo]

ohh really?

[manic abyss]

Mario Odyssey
Zelda BOTW
Zelda totk
Kirby Forgotten Land
Splatoon 2
Smash Bros Ultimate
Metroid Dread
Pikmin 4
and uhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh

[fiery burrow]

Yeah, you can probably pogo it

[maiden valve]

I started with ultimate

[woeful matrix]

oh yeah i'm excited for black ops gulf war and ror2 seekers of the storm

[errant silo]

acnh too and splat 3

[manic abyss]

Yeah acnh was pretty good

[reef scarab]

I mean like rn there are like less than ten PS5 exclusives so I imagine they’ll keep that console up a while longer?

[placid ether]

I started on MHFU, played 3, 3U, 4U and then skipped Gen

[coarse leaf]

They're moving away from exclusives

[coarse leaf]

I dont see how that would be their deciding factor

[maiden valve]

REALLY dude you gotta play it

[placid ether]

I'm not sure if I can go back to old MH mechanics

[valid sable]

MHGU PC port when

[errant silo]

MH? (Monster Hunter nvmm)

[maiden valve]

Yeah it feels much much slower

[wooden turret]

by the way - Switch. Do you think if Silksong releases, it would work flawlessly? I've beaten HK on Switch and loved it, but I'm afraid that porting Silksong might be more difficult, as it's weak hardware. I'm worrying about that, as Switch would be the platform I'd like to play Silksong the most

[maiden valve]

Also bc of the dogs in rise its imposible to not feel like you're slower then a turtle

[coarse leaf]

Unless they mess up the port which i doubt its gonna be fine

[errant silo]

yea I'm terrified to think it wont release/ wont work well on switch
But if it does release I feel like Team Cherry will work to optimise it

[coarse leaf]

Its a 2d sprite based game its not very hard to get running compared to some stuff thats already on switch

[maiden valve]

Bet they will try

[placid ether]

My favorite MH has to be Tri, I loved Loc Lac so much...

[errant silo]

please please please please please please please

[wooden turret]

Look at Cult of the lamb for example. Works really bad, and is 2d based game too

[maiden valve]

Lagiacrus will be in wilds i trully belive it will

[placid ether]

100%

[coarse leaf]

Thats just bad porting then

[placid ether]

Also Jhen Mohran would be awesome in Wilds

[errant silo]

which I'm scared will happen to the switchh

[maiden valve]

OMG YESSS!

[unborn dome]

the switch is the reason why ss is taking so long

[maiden valve]

Would work the best in wilds hands down

[coarse leaf]

The switch can run ToTK it should not be the hardware thats the problem

[hollow terrace]

CONSOLES PLAYERS ARE THE REASON WE DONT HAVE SILKSONG

[errant silo]

I thought they might try to optimise it later, a bit after release

[coarse leaf]

Even if the hardware is absolute ass

[wooden turret]

you know, I was thinking about that. It's not really that impossible, I guess

[coarse leaf]

Id sure hope they don't

[placid ether]

People are really craving Dalamadur and Gogmazios so I would expect them to be back in base's DLC or expansion's DLC

[woeful matrix]

that would be so funny if its the reason ss is taking so lonh

[coarse leaf]

Releasing unfinished garbage to hit deadlines is a plague on the gaming industry

[valid sable]

Lagiacrus got 3rd place in monster popularity, if it's not in we must raid Capcom headquarters

[wooden turret]

Do you own a Switch? Zelda on Switch is a miracle, there's not much games looking like this on this console. Some games look very bad and work even worse

[errant silo]

that's true :'(

[maiden valve]

They feel a bit TO big you know gogmazios will maybe but I dont think dalamadur will

[placid ether]

Lagiacrus didn't make into Rise because they are saving it for Wilds, they already have Mizu working so...

[coarse leaf]

Well yes but as I said, bad ports, what you gonna do

[fervent spear]

this is less than 10 games 😭

[wooden turret]

Still, why would bad port not happen to Silksong? That's the topic of my concern

[errant silo]

more than one game per year, including lock down

[full ledge]

But it runs on my pc

[maiden valve]

Nerscylla to would be cool to have back

[coarse leaf]

Why would bad port happen to silksong

[young saffron]

hey

[errant silo]

why hello shark

[young saffron]

ps6?

[hollow terrace]

[fervent spear]

lockdown was peak

[young saffron]

I do not get it

oh you meant hello lmao, hey hru

[placid ether]

What is MH Wilds' flagship going to look like? I would like a poison flagship :)

[wooden turret]

I would ask "why not", but this would last forever

[errant silo]

my autocorrect drank too much

[coarse leaf]

Bad ports are often caused by being forced to hit internal deadlines, TC does not have this problem

[maiden valve]

Congalala

[errant silo]

very eepy (it's 1:30am)

[fervent spear]

Sony made an announcement on the PS5 being halfway though it's life cycle, while we may get a few more years out of it I'd say within the next 10 years we'd be looking at the PS6

[young saffron]

same its 9pm

[wooden turret]

yeah, guess you're right

[young saffron]

oh 10 years for sure

[maiden valve]

Poisonous fart

[young saffron]

I thought you meant in like a year or 2

[coarse leaf]

True, runs on my 4090 dev setup, ship it

[placid ether]

I thought of a monster that adapted to weather, changing elements midfight. Similar to Alatreon.

[fervent spear]

Which I still think is pretty crazy given how unattainable the PS5's were for so long

[maiden valve]

I actually thought the same a second ago

It would make sense bc of the weather mechanics

[placid ether]

Imagine it's weapon chaning elements with weather too

Luring x monster to an area where your weapon deals more damage

[errant silo]

welp I've become too eepy and am gonna rest
gn y'all

[maiden valve]

Just imbues a stone sword with lightning like how glavenus makes its tail on fire

Holds the sword in its mouth

[placid ether]

One thing I want for Wilds, make Impact Great Sword and Cutting Hammers

based on design

Altough impact GS would be busted

[maiden valve]

YES im a great sword main and would think that would be so satesfying tho yes it would be busted

But cmon

Do you thinl plush dlc will be in wilds

[placid ether]

plush weapon designs?

[placid ether]

hopefully

[grand ferry]

flesh rats

[maiden valve]

Do you think this is a goss variant

Many people theories so

[placid ether]

In-game, no. Cannonically, probably.

[maiden valve]

Cool to have a new fanged beast since they are my favorit

[placid ether]

Old world or new world?

[maiden valve]

New

[placid ether]

I honestly feel like Wilds is going to have a similar enviroment to Tri

[maiden valve]

Maybe since its gonna be a bit emptier then world

[placid ether]

My idea for the game is: Each map is going to be open world and have one town where you accept quests

So it's going to be similar to a constant expedition

[maiden valve]

Sounds plausible

[placid ether]

Instead of teleporting from town to map you actually walk out of town onto the Wilds to complete the mission

[fervent spear]

is this real?

[placid ether]

Yes

[sacred stratus]

lfg

[fervent spear]

that's crazy 😂

[sacred stratus]

took me so long to build this set

[placid ether]

There's one for each weapon

[maiden valve]

Tho how will it work with large monsters since now that its open world wont the quests make the monsters despawn and respawn new large monsters

[sacred stratus]

look at my fucking build. best CB in the game, honed blade, razor sharp and ch+2

[placid ether]

accepting a quest forces that monster to spawn and not despawn while quest is active

[maiden valve]

Ok

[sacred stratus]

that's amazing for a no relic build

[placid ether]

Please bring back negative skill

I hate being too overpowered in World

[maiden valve]

The very improtant thing is to nerf the long sword in wilds

Caus the counter is way to ducking good

Also please make incect glave an atlaest good weapon so I dont just get held back by incect glave users

[wooden turret]

It's almost a year after Leth posted a tweet about delay. Did you think at this time, that we won't hear anything from TC for a year?

[cunning geode]

it’s possible. we did hear from Leth last february though

[young talon]

we did?

[cunning geode]

check piba

[wooden turret]

oh right, "still hard at", forgot about that

[cunning geode]

okay phone. sure check piba.
check pins

[young talon]

ah. Do you guys think we could get silksong by the end of 2025?

[fervent spear]

It's in the pins, but he posted around Valentine's day that they're still working on it

[fervent spear]

I'd say it's a high possibility tbh

[cunning geode]

we could get it this year honestly

[fiery burrow]

2028

[fervent spear]

I feel like if TC was looking at years they'd say something at least

[young talon]

i just really hope i can play it before 2026...

[fervent spear]

I feel like it's close that's why we haven't heard anything

[cunning geode]

well they did TRY to get it done by the first half of 2023

[cunning geode]

what happens in 2026?

do you know something we don’t?

[young talon]

shouldn't it be quite the opposite? The more news the closer the release date is?

[cunning geode]

👹

[fervent spear]

nuclear Fallout

[young talon]

i eat your house

[hollow terrace]

2027 because it’s ten year anniversary of hollow knight release

[cunning geode]

oh no, enjoy the mold i guess

[maiden valve]

And that would make it so that its probably gonna be this year or january

[hollow terrace]

ONE TEAM CHERRY GAME EACH DECADE

[fervent spear]

I doubt it. Given how the fanbase reacts I doubt anything other than the release date would make everyone happy

[maiden valve]

Worth it

[fervent spear]

Not saying updates wouldn't be appreciated for sure, but maybe they don't want to spoil anything

[normal latch]

there have been some foreshadowings maybe

i saw a Xbox pad ad with hk in background

and those ofc

[maiden valve]

Never trust x box

[fervent spear]

I look at it like the Haunted Choclatier, we've seen a good bit of updates about the game but ConcernedApe has said he's not going to work on it anymore until after Stardew Valley get's it's final updates.

[hollow terrace]

We have to ban the first image without proper context

[young talon]

okay i see your point. Considering the whole thing with the metadate extraction incident... We do be jumping on anything given and tearing it into pieces

[fiery burrow]

We should ban images actually

[wooden turret]

I believe all the marketing before release would be a short teaser or trailer with release date. No more marketing needed, just remind people who is not actively waiting that this game exists and releases in month or two

[normal latch]

now the fact that it isnt in June tells us that SS is either not ready yet, completed but TC wants to release it alone, or it releases on April 29th

[formal karma]

None of that is true

[young talon]

i think the soonest it can realese is end of summer

[normal latch]

why not

[dapper topaz]

Are you sure about that

Those messages, besides the first one, really feel like you're beating around the bush

[formal karma]

Except for maybe the not ready yet

[full rune]

bro is still cooking days later

[normal latch]

me?

Im always cooking m8

[maiden valve]

Its gonna release april 25 2024

[normal latch]

april 29th*

[full rune]

therapist might be a better play

[half arrow]

Never trust Xbox, they just joke about silksong

[normal latch]

and not release, but a announcement

[dapper topaz]

Ok grandpa, time for your meds.

[maiden valve]

DID I STUTTER

[normal latch]

It wont release that day 100%

thats the only thing im certain of

[normal latch]

u said 25th

[fervent spear]

Personally I hope it shadow drops

[maiden valve]

I said what i said

[normal latch]

it may be just to make us think that

[half arrow]

That exactly wy they dont say anything

[young talon]

has the stuff with idxbox been disproven yet? Not that I believe it, at this point putting on clown makeup just became a tradition

[fiery burrow]

Xbox said nothing of note.

"Soon" is an inherently vague term and what they said reads more like "Hang on in there!" more than anything

[normal latch]

actually if they could brainwash me into thinking SS doesnt exist until it releases i'd do that

[dapper topaz]

This.

It really feels like Xbox isn't upto anything.

[maiden valve]

Would you ever actually believe x box

[fiery burrow]

If they said something that makes sense

[dapper topaz]

I'll believe screenrant and gamerant instead

[formal karma]

Fun fact- you can just not put clown makeup on

[dapper topaz]

[maiden valve]

Would you actually believe they would make sense

[normal latch]

I'd trather be famous instead

[fiery burrow]

Xbox doesn't lie for funsies

[high hedge]

I think the 50 year anniversary would be a good time to drop Silksong

[fiery burrow]

Worst they did was put out a release window that wasn't meant to be public

[half arrow]

In any case, I would be very surprised if it appeared at an event, because according to Leth the following information would come directly from Team Cherry

[young talon]

im not the type to flood chats with "skong" but i like tuning into indie showcases with the excuse of silksong.

[fiery burrow]

Context matters

[normal latch]

they also used green heart they talked abt SS in xbox posts

[fiery burrow]

He's saying it won't be like the whole xbox release window thing

[maiden valve]

[normal latch]

and a green heart appeared in thr ING x Xbox announcement

[dapper topaz]

That doesn't say anything about what event it might come at

[formal karma]

It actually says everything about it not being at an event....

[normal latch]

anyways thats it from me for today have fun guys

[maiden valve]

Im gonna go play d&d so bye now be back in 4 hours

[fiery burrow]

No it doesn't.

[normal latch]

love ya

[dapper topaz]

Can't be sure of that really

[fiery burrow]

This feels like when people took the Leth "You could say the game is finished" quote out of context

[half arrow]

Yeah xd

[wooden turret]

Imagine Chris Larkin did this awesome job, got a whole OST done a long time ago and waits just like us for it to be shown for a wider audience

[formal karma]

No... I mean he said it's coming from them- though. It could change but it's miles ahead of "a pixel on an image suggests it's at xbox"

[dapper topaz]

Nah, let my bro cook

[formal karma]

Which is hyperbole but still

[fiery burrow]

I'm not saying its at idxbox but nothing Leth said suggests it won't be at an event #sk-discussion message

[young talon]

thats quite possible. Unless team cherry ended up adding more rooms after a certain point. Would explain the delay tbh. There are still hidden geo gaches that i find in HK

[formal karma]

Leth professing that TC would like to control their releas says waaaaay more for it not being at an event than anything else combined pretending that it will

Only the greatest of planetary alignments could put silksong in an event

[fervent spear]

personally at this point silksong would overshadow any indie event. So I just doubt it'll be at any indie showcase

[young talon]

:,) perhaps silksong is truly a test of patience

[fiery burrow]

Thats complete non sequitur

[fervent spear]

the real silksong are the friends we made along the way ♥️

[dapper topaz]

No, it’s just in your dreams.

[opaque sigil]

it means nothing either way

[fiery burrow]

The planets have aligned more than 3 times now ig

[normal latch]

no, thats the case for HK and SS fans but ppl who dk much abt it will be like alr it looks cool

why ppl dont get it

[young talon]

if they even announce it at one they will probably put it as the last to be shown.
And then the site crashes

[normal latch]

its just TC community that fixates over SS

[fervent spear]

It just makes me sad when I see all these indie showcases and it's just a flood in the chat of SS when. I feel like SS has just outgrown Indie at this point. Let's save if for a main showcase

[fiery burrow]

Why are you paying attention to direct chats

[opaque sigil]

ss is still an indie and however annoying chat spammers are it's not like those event chats are ever used for anything other than that

[fervent spear]

I don't but if you happen to open it that's what's going on

[dapper topaz]

The thing which I hate is that people go mad over the hype they themselves created lol

Like, chill, your entertainment isn’t finished if your awaited game isn’t shown at a showcase

[young talon]

I know at least 10 people that have never played Hollow knight but are waiting to buy silksong any my social circle isnt even that big

[fiery burrow]

III

[dapper topaz]

They cry. Let them cry lol

[fervent spear]

I just don't appreciate the effort put into those events and because of the HK community it feels like they get downplayed due to the spam of SS when. Like, can we have a bit of patience. Let's let Team Cherry cook and appreciate what others are working on

[opaque sigil]

I'm not going to pretend those people aren't annoying but it also doesn't really matter

[fervent spear]

that's unfortunately true

it's still a meme at this point and even with the release of the game people still going to be spamming silksong when

[fiery burrow]

They should ban "Silksong isn't out" jokes from this chat once it releases

[young talon]

I dont think theres much we can do about that. No matter what tc does, unless they announce the release of the game stuff like this will continue

[fervent spear]

I wish chatboxes would just ban certain words

[formal karma]

Those are going to be so rampant

[fervent spear]

and will probably still continue. I can already see "Silksong 2 when"

[warped rock]

hollow knight 2 when

[fervent spear]

I get if it's just the HK community but let's just do better 😂

[pastel silo]

Wasn't his main point that the next news won't be coming from him directly as has become the norm for some time now, but from William and Ari instead? Thus a release date trailer on an event still falls under this. It would make 0 sense for him to claim in advance that that the release date announcement won't align with any big event, especially when we know they would wanna use such opportunity.

[atomic mirage]

guys is silksong ever coming out

[fervent spear]

https://tenor.com/view/tomorrow-eventually-gif-23712968

[supple widget]

I assume this just means that like, the Xbox tweet saying Silksong will definitely be out in a year was not from TC, the trailer was still directly from them, just given to us through Xbox

[dapper topaz]

It does, though.

The more crazy they go, the more disappointment they get, and the other games don’t get the attention they deserve

[cunning geode]

and its all their fault

[pastel silo]

If I recall correctly, they were talking about how Leth announced the delay, and right that he said that the next info will be coming from TC themselves instead. Thus I agree with you, people just took his statement out of the context of the whole conversation.

[opaque sigil]

those people have no effect on the attention other games get and I really don't care if they work themselves into a frenzy then get upset

[fervent spear]

I get if it's the kids of the HK community, but as a whole we should just control ourselves better

[dapper topaz]

It still affects the overall event, but well if you don’t care then nothing matters I guess

[opaque sigil]

except it doesn't

[fervent spear]

I get the wait is annoying but it'll be here eventually and it'll all have been worth it

[opaque sigil]

chat spam is completely inconsequential

and redditors going off to cry in a corner after the fact doesn't affect the event

[fervent spear]

maybe to you, but I doubt that goes for everyone

[formal karma]

People chatting in a live stream doesn't equate to stealing eyeballs off a real presentation

[pastel silo]

Thanks to the wave of excited silksong spammers, you could argue that those games get more exposure than they would otherwise.

[opaque sigil]

if people are staring at the chat instead of watching the event then they already aren't paying attention

[astral dagger]

What event

[formal karma]

I still bought a game from III....

[sacred stratus]

@rustic ore we finally got the one build

the one build is realllllll!

[astral dagger]

What event

[normal latch]

that means you chose the right friends

[opaque sigil]

any

[rustic ore]

https://tenor.com/view/chopper-gif-26230616

[dapper topaz]

Hmm, how though?

[stark estuary]

4U?

[dapper topaz]

Yeah true, I didn’t consider that

[astral dagger]

There’s no events I know of going on rn

[opaque sigil]

correct

and yet they exist conceptually

[cunning geode]

nope not anymore

[pastel silo]

Because those people would probably not tune into those smaller events if they didn't expect Silksong to show up

[sacred stratus]

yes

[fervent spear]

and it's probably more the HK community too that's limiting themselves, but we still look like a laughing stock to others

[stark estuary]

Chat dead time for a hot take
Piracy is good

[dapper topaz]

Yeah, and the other thing would be that people who are actually interested in the event won’t look at the chat because they know what’s going on there, and would actually pay attention to the event

[opaque sigil]

that's an oversimplification to the point of being incomprehensible

[dapper topaz]

Depends on situation imo

[fiery burrow]

I don't think piracy talk is allowed here

[stark estuary]

That’s the point

[stark estuary]

That’s such a copout answer

[fervent spear]

ARRG

[stark estuary]

There’s a piracy discussion like every two days what are you on about

[opaque sigil]

you can't like tell people how to do it

[fiery burrow]

Its at the very least heavily discouraged

[opaque sigil]

well yes people tend to be very bad at engaging with things with any measure of nuance

[coarse leaf]

The distribution or help of distribution is not allowed because its illegal and so goes against TOS, the topic itself is fair game

[stark estuary]

It’s only discouraged because people don’t tend to behave themselves when it’s brought up

[hollow terrace]

WHY ARE YOU ALL DWARFS

[stark estuary]

Not because it’s actually against the rules, even mods have participated in such discussions in the past

[cunning geode]

what did you expect to find after lifting the stone

[coarse leaf]

Dwarfs are cool smh

[formal karma]

Taco convinced us with his dwarf fortress talk

[fervent spear]

Frieren is the goat

[fiery burrow]

So maybe don't bring it up

[stark estuary]

grrrr copyright laws

[formal karma]

By grungi's hammer

[opaque sigil]

copyright laws being bad is a frigid take

[stoic path]

so... anyone gonna watch the ID Xbox event?

[stark estuary]

You can’t tell me what to do

[cunning geode]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/397062813949886466/1222709041818632304/IMG_3679.gif

[opaque sigil]

if I'm bored

[coarse leaf]

Probably not

[stark estuary]

Yes I just wanted to draw attention to the fact that those are the only things making piracy illegal

[fervent spear]

I'll be checking it out for sure. We'll see if anything cool comes out of it

[supple widget]

Piracy is good. It has helped develop technological skills in people, it's helped keep games available after they're taken off store pages, it's helped people who can't afford to play video games play them, and it often times leads to translations of games being made and helping them cross language barriers

[dapper topaz]

I mean, without context, it's not possible to rightly pinpoint wether piracy is good or bad

If I wanted to answer on my terms, however, I do pirate some games, but not ones like HK

HK had me captivated already after I saw the trailer, and I just couldn't resist wanting to play it

[supple widget]

Yeah I like Indie games

[formal karma]

I'll watch for anything that might also be coming to steam

[dapper topaz]

So I decided to convince my parents about it, and they agreed after a few debates

[opaque sigil]

I mean it's xbox I doubt anything there would be an exclusive

[coarse leaf]

So like, all of it

[formal karma]

Yea

[stark estuary]

“I pirate games except for the ones I like”

At that point what difference does it make

[cunning geode]

its a personal choice no

[coarse leaf]

Well actually, they might push onto the Microsoft store instead of steam

[dapper topaz]

Yeah, it's difficult when your parents are too strict

You can't keep on arguing over them for each and every game you wanna try out

[formal karma]

They own both-

[stark estuary]

It’s always a personal choice, but people shouldn’t act as though they somehow have the moral high ground because they only pirate from AAA companies and not indie devs or whatever

[cunning geode]

oh fuck microsoft cannot be allowed to own steam ha

[young talon]

On the topic of piracy, as someone that lives in a country where quite a lot of movies (especially if its non mainstream) simply are not avaible (same for a huge portion of the streaming services) the only way i can watch it is to pirate it.

[cunning geode]

was someone acting that way?

[dapper topaz]

And if you have too many demands, you'll just end up lowering your chances for them to actually buy you any other game in the future

[fervent spear]

Haven't seen it here, but you'd be surprised

[cunning geode]

i wouldnt be surprised by that, im referring to the conversation right now

[stark estuary]

Not necessarily in this particular instance

[dapper topaz]

Not here, no.

[fervent spear]

Used to be in a chat and got bombarded for doing that such thing, but damn they could pirate from bigger corps all day long

[full ledge]

And people shouldn’t try to justify piracy it just boils down to I don’t want to/can’t pay

[fervent spear]

had to gtf out of there

[stark estuary]

Not really no

[full ledge]

Yes really

[cunning geode]

theres also an aspect of media conservation

[dapper topaz]

If there are people who can pay but still pirate, then that's probably bad

[full ledge]

Well yeah but that’s not what I’m talking about

[cunning geode]

okey

[opaque sigil]

'I can't pay' is probably the strongest justification they could offer

[young talon]

i cannot watch most movies unless i pirate it.

it simple, isnt avaible here

[supple widget]

What about games that don't have official translations but do have translations in pirated copies

[full ledge]

Oh if you actually can’t pay sure but that doesn’t make it not piracy

[opaque sigil]

you can't pay for a translated version

so you can't pay

there is no ability to perform the transaction legitimately

[stark estuary]

If you want to oversimplify shit then arguments against piracy are always shit like “it’s stealing” (which is not true), “it hurts sales” (which is also not true) and “it’s illegal” (which is true but only because of copyright laws existing)

[full ledge]

Well obviously if you can’t legitimately get it that’s fine

[supple widget]

Why is piracy bad in your opinion because you've said it's bad but haven't explained why

[dapper topaz]

True, but there's no other reason below that

Piracy is piracy, once done can't be undone.

[fiery burrow]

If its not stealing why is it named after pirates

[jade canopy]

How is piracy not stealing

Like getting things for free that usually cost money does sound like stealing

[cunning geode]

stealing implies the lack of the original as it was owned previously. digital copies dont work like that

[dapper topaz]

Piracy is literally stealing lmao

[opaque sigil]

it arguably is by technicality but the implication of harm from stealing comes from depriving the 'victim' of that good, piracy doesn't do that

if you go to a store and steal an apple, the store has one less apple

[cunning geode]

because of stigma

[stark estuary]

If I walk into GameStop and steal a copy of a game they lose out on a copy they potentially could have sold and made money from, that’s stealing
If I download a game from a dodgy website nobody loses anything, that’s an infringement of copyright and nothing else
Legally courts have almost universally ruled in favor of the above

[full ledge]

People act like everyone pirating wouldn’t buy the game otherwise when a lot of people would buy it if piracy wasn’t an option

[supple widget]

When you pirate a game does the company that made it suddenly not own that game anymore?

[opaque sigil]

sure many people do pirate when they could buy and I'm not saying that's good practice

[young talon]

what if i simply cannot afford. Am i banned from playing games for living in a country with abysmal economy

[stark estuary]

Also there’s not very much evidence to show that piracy actually hurts sales

[supple widget]

Ok but they still have a reason not to buy it, even if they eventually would

[stark estuary]

Well there is but there’s also a lot of conflicting evidence

[opaque sigil]

if you want a game and can afford it imo you should just buy it, but that's not universally the case when people pirate

[glacial wren]

i like committing crimes though

[full ledge]

I have said many times I don’t blame people for pirating that can’t afford it

[supple widget]

Best reason so far

[fiery burrow]

What if its a developer you do not wish to support

[brave island]

piracy allows you to receive the merchandise without giving back to the distributor, which is an objective loss to said distributor
so your own internal morality determines if piracy is bad or not (I personally view it as immoral for small creators, but triple A games don't need my 50 dollars)

[stark estuary]

Also you need evidence to back this kind of claim up

[glacial wren]

blah blah blah

[opaque sigil]

ayyy there it is

[full ledge]

You need evidence otherwise

[jade canopy]

Ehh idk, it’s really a technicality
Like you talk about "stealing ideas" all the time, and for good reason, though you don’t technically get the original you still get something that wasn’t yours originally by shady means
Like if really stealing a film, or a game, was not really stealing then by that logic you also were not buying it in the first place
Like, well you are not leaving with one more item than the seller had, thus you didn’t really buy anything as the original seller can just make infinite amounts for nothing

[supple widget]

You are the one who has made a claim, you have said that people will buy the game if they can't pirate it. Why? Where is there any proof of this?

[brave island]

its ok to analyze ethical dilemmas yk
just because it takes a bit of reading doesn't invalidate what I say

[dapper topaz]

Because it isn’t

That’s when piracy actually has an effect

[stark estuary]

Burden of proof is on you
My point is no reliable evidence exists, there are so many studies that have been done you could very easily handpick a couple dozen showing that piracy actually improves sales or that it doesn’t affect them one way or another

So the effect piracy has on sales shouldn’t really have a place in this discussion

[opaque sigil]

eh even then there's the difference between 'could' and 'would'

[supple widget]

@stark estuary have we watched the same video essay about piracy?

[stark estuary]

I haven’t watched any video essays on piracy

[stark estuary]

As Serr would say correlation does not necessarily imply causation

[jade canopy]

Im gonna assume, due to the enormous length that big AAA games go to to make it as hard as possible to pirate games that they do actually hurt them

[supple widget]

Woah, cuz you're brining up a lot of points I heard in one specific video essay

[opaque sigil]

if you could buy the game but wouldn't, that's still not a lost sale if you pirate

[brave island]

does it matter if it aligns with the texbook definition of stealing? it's a very obvious negative to the company selling the products, whether or not you feel guilt because it's at the same level as "stealing"

oops sorry for reply ping I didnt spot that

[stark estuary]

Well these are pretty common points

[supple widget]

Like, in the order they brought them up

[glacial wren]

video essays are for morons

[opaque sigil]

companies sometimes do goofy things

[jade canopy]

Like DRM and such are known to cause performance issues on games, and editors still put them on all their games

[stark estuary]

Usually DRM gets removed once the game gets cracked which is funny

[opaque sigil]

but is there evidence that DRM improves sales

[jade canopy]

If piracy really wasn’t a big deal I’m not sure they could justify it

[fiery burrow]

video essays 🐑 🐏

[full ledge]

Tbh those just increase piracy

[opaque sigil]

this is what would support the claim not the existence of drms

[opaque sigil]

[brave island]

thats a pretty large generalization lmao

[stark estuary]

What

[cunning geode]

https://tenor.com/view/monsters-inc-mr-waternoose-does-anyone-else-know-about-this-does-anybody-else-know-about-this-gif-22975408

[stark estuary]

The existence of anti piracy measures isn’t generally because companies are actually being hurt by it

[glacial wren]

drm is like prohibition it never works

[brave island]

its ok to read media and watch video essays

[jade canopy]

So why do they exist ? Do company do things that don’t benefit them ? That’s kinda rare

[opaque sigil]

it's not about whether drm works it's about whether it working is helpful

[glacial wren]

the answer is also no

[brave island]

AAA companies really dont have much to worry about with piracy
unless the game sucks

[opaque sigil]

even ones that get cracked would reduce initial piracy which I imagine would be the hotspot

[wide quartz]

ok ive got the second sifu boss down easily now

the third one is wrecking me though

[opaque sigil]

no companies really do, at least not on any evidentiary basis

[wide quartz]

this is gonna be how the entire game goes im guessing

[shell yacht]

by the uproar over the last like decade, drm hurts more than it helps, singleplayer ganes online only drm enabled shit

[supple widget]

Greed, if they can get a day or two out of the measures they'll get an extra few sales from people who really want to get the game

[glacial wren]

like prohibition but games you pirate are usually not fun anyway

[stark estuary]

This is the same as asking why Nintendo would bother to sue some random guy distributing cracked switches for a sum of money that means nothing to them

Companies are protective of their products and don’t want people getting them for free, which is why they implement those measures despite there being no real evidence that they help (or that piracy otherwise damages their sales)

[brave island]

it's probably less trivial for non-game products, like vsts

[glacial wren]

corporations are evil???

[stark estuary]

Also the companies that make anti piracy measures want to make money too

[fiery burrow]

No they're your friend

[stark estuary]

And do so by selling said measures

[glacial wren]

oh thank pepsi

[brave island]

I think you should generally just buy games, don't be dishonest
but when it comes to software.......I'm too broke for that sh so I'm gonna justify pirating in that regard lmao

[near flame]

What a rowdy bunch of contrarians ive stumbled upon

[supple widget]

And sell said measures by making scares around how much those measures are needed

[opaque sigil]

Which means advertising in a way that exaggerates their importance

[brave island]

I'm not tryna be contrary ¯_(ツ)_/¯

[full ledge]

Guy deserved it tbh usually I hate when companies do this stuff but they were bricking switches if people tampered with them and profited off open source stuff

[glacial wren]

if i could steal a loaf of bread to feed my family that also does video game things what moral dilemma does this pose

[stark estuary]

Also large corporations wouldn’t mind paying them as that money means nothing to them and they’d probably rather have it than not even if it results in very little or no benefit

[stark estuary]

Sure but the guy literally went into lifetime debt

[cunning geode]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/397062813949886466/1212617656293662730/IMG_3637.gif

[stark estuary]

He’s gonna be paying Nintendo back a significant part of his monthly salary with no hopes of ever repaying back the full amount he owes

[astral dagger]

Silksong is technically released for 3 people.

[brave island]

it's hard to gauge the impact piracy has on profit
I think there's also fear that more and more people'll jump on the wagon and there will be a visible loss just by the laws of majority

[full ledge]

More than 3

[cunning geode]

3 and a half

[dapper topaz]

If there’s like people who can’t pay for games while they’re young will simply pirate shit, they won’t wait to grow up, get a job, earn something decent, and then buy this game which you wanted like 30 years ago

[astral dagger]

The whole battle of piracy is one of convenience.

[brave island]

you've got a point

[stark estuary]

At which point it would also cost several times the original price (and may not even exist anymore if it’s digital)

[full ledge]

Theres at least 4 people that have playtested in addition to the 3 devs

[glacial wren]

so in short the united states government should declare war on piracy

[near flame]

How does the boot taste

[obsidian juniper]

Hi,Is there any silksong news?

[dapper topaz]

Exactly

[stark estuary]

Yes, it releases in a week

[dapper topaz]

Whar

[stark estuary]

There was an announcement at the XBOX thing earlier

[lone crown]

Misinformation

[obsidian juniper]

Wait fr?

[stark estuary]

TC are releasing on PC next Wednesday and on consoles the week after

[astral dagger]

It comes down to both of the units of currency, time AND money. They can usually be exchanged somewhat, so if it would be a really long time to afford such, piracy becomes more efficient and convenient and thus, occurs more.
That’s why near the start of streaming piracy went down because it was all there for cheap, but now everything’s split between like 20 and expensive so piracy is on the rise.

[fiery burrow]

No

[obsidian juniper]

God dammit

[opaque sigil]

the xbox thing doesn't even happen for like four days

[stark estuary]

[dapper topaz]

What is bro yapping

[near flame]

https://tenor.com/view/dance-dancing-dancing-cat-cat-cat-dance-gif-4990417705814603993

Guys what do we think of this

[glacial wren]

fake

cat doesn't dance

[dapper topaz]

Illegal

[brave island]

I think its a little silly to suggest we sit with the device we spent a lot of money on, playing 1-4 games and digging through the garbage pile of free games, instead of actually enjoying ourselves

some people are simply broke, there's no way to get around that

[dapper topaz]

That was my point. There are some things which you can’t control.

[glacial wren]

but i have money to buy games and i worked very very hard (not at all)

[brave island]

yeah

[dapper topaz]

So piracy goes on.

[obsidian juniper]

Yeah i dont keep track of conferences
I saw smthing about a xbox tweet vaguely hinting at it and i wanted to see if there was any other info

[supple widget]

Has anyone considered that if we steal a significant amount from big companies they will either A) put effort into games and make better games so that we will actually want to pay for them, or B) stop making games and then the only games that get made will be passion projects (like Silksong and other indie games) which are usually much better rather than seeing Call of Duty 1000 with no significant differences

[stark estuary]

Or live in countries where buying those games for the price they’re being sold for costs like half their monthly salary
Or the games are otherwise inaccessible

[opaque sigil]

neither of these are true

[stark estuary]

A) they don’t care
B) lmao

[full ledge]

Yes my problem is more with people that have the money and pirate anyways

[brave island]

yeah in those instances I'd say they're in the wrong
...unless the company's like bad or sum

[full ledge]

Especially if it’s an indie game

[stark estuary]

Even if people can afford to buy games they can do what they want with their money, you shouldn’t make assumptions about how much it’s worth to them

[supple widget]

I mean like, enough people pirate that AAA games are no longer profitable if they don't put in actual effort

[near flame]

Nintendo and sony and whoever dont need money to buy bread like i do

[coarse leaf]

Piracy has basically no actual real effect, it doesnt matter

[dapper topaz]

Yeah, that’s bad

It’s clearly bad, no pointers there

Because there are lots of games which actually deserve the pay, if you can pay

[stark estuary]

Or how much time/effort was required to get it

[brave island]

if you pirate indie games you're honestly just a bully

[opaque sigil]

not going to happen and if it did that would just make them go draconian on anti-piracy

[brave island]

lmao

[formal karma]

Publishers are the problems- not devs

[stark estuary]

Literally doesn’t matter

[formal karma]

Typically. I should say

[brave island]

it does in fact matter
especially if the game's small

[fiery burrow]

ty!

[stark estuary]

There is no difference between pirating a AAA game and an indie game

[glacial wren]

so yeah if you complain about piracy you're probably either privileged or brainwashed

[full ledge]

Not true at all

[stark estuary]

It literally does not matter

[near flame]

Bruh

[opaque sigil]

if you're pirating an indie game then in no universe were you going to buy it

especially with their lower price

[full ledge]

An indie team needs the money more and should be supported

[astral dagger]

This is why drm can actually increase piracy.

[brave island]

there is most definitely a difference, going off of audience/traction alone

[stark estuary]

Or you were only going to buy it after you pirated it

[jade canopy]

Just use the fucking two hour steam refund then

[full ledge]

They’re saying there’s no difference between pirating AAA and indie

[stark estuary]

There’s no difference in the sense that the indie dev likely isn’t losing any money (or not a greater proportion than a AAA dev would lose)

[glacial wren]

that's it piracy is over it makes indie devs sad

[formal karma]

They are

[opaque sigil]

if anything indies might benefit more from getting pirated since word of mouth is how they spread so somebody playing the game, even if they didn't pay, is still an advantage

[stark estuary]

Evidence

[near flame]

It makes me happy

[coarse leaf]

Thats true, Studies on this stuff are kinda hard to find but from what Ive seen piracy is literally irrelevant

[formal karma]

Pirate = zero dollars

[brave island]

this is ignoring many factors
I agree with you in the case of like, hollow knight and hades, but if we applied this same rule to either of those games before they took off, there's a much greater chance of the game failing

[opaque sigil]

gross oversimplification and makes a lot of assumptions

[stark estuary]

Not buying the game = zero dollars

By pirating the company doesn’t lose a copy they could have potentially sold

[formal karma]

Yup

[near flame]

What a shit way to live

[stark estuary]

They don’t actually lose anything at all

[brave island]

support your fellow college students who poured a lot of work into their project
dont be lame

[stark estuary]

Amazing argument

[full ledge]

So now I and everyone else should start pirating too and no one will make money on games since it doesn’t effect companies

[glacial wren]

good thing I'm not a poor person!

[brave island]

did I not reply a few seconds ago with an actual logical argument

[near flame]

Oh wiat i think I misunderstood

[dapper topaz]

I mean, that gets personal

If it’s like, your collegemates then yeah you’re downright disrespectful if you pirate lol

[stark estuary]

Logical is an overstatement

[supple widget]

Ok, a game is underselling, and then someone Pirates it and tells like 3 of their friends that it's a good game, so 2 of them buy it and 1 pirates it as well, game has now sold 2 more copies than if that person didn't pirate it

[coarse leaf]

True, thats totally the logical conclusion of that statement

[opaque sigil]

not really no

[cunning geode]

thats character growth right there

[near flame]

Guys can we all just group hug

[brave island]

I dont actually mean the people around you lmao

[cunning geode]

also heya welcome to the infamous silksong discussion channel, its not always like this i promise 👹

[stark estuary]

If you’re going to claim piracy results in a “much greater chance of the game failing” you kinda need evidence to back that up

[supple widget]

Yeah guys come on

[near flame]

No this is fun dw

[stark estuary]

(Hint: there isn’t)

[brave island]

this is assuming the situation goes that way
I think it boils down to data we just don't have access to rn

[stark estuary]

(And even if it was it wouldn’t be proof of causation)

[full ledge]

@stark estuary let’s say someone like me that would be buying the games otherwise started pirating games instead would that be ok with you

[cunning geode]

yeah but its nicer when its just a handful of people who've been here for years just chilling

[jade canopy]

Honestly good try, but we are having an argument about ethics, and those honestly tend to never end (I would advise for mods to shut it down, it doesn’t seem to be going anywhere)

[coarse leaf]

Honest question, why should he care

[jade canopy]

It’s like telling people debating about abortion to just make a group hug, ethic debates don’t end

[near flame]

I know im a communist

[supple widget]

If a game sells a million copies you and everyone you know pirating isn't gonna affect it much. If a game sells 1000 copies it still probably won't affect much, and if it sells less than that you probably won't bother pirating the game

[full ledge]

I mean would that person be doing the morally correct thing in his opinion

[copper knot]

r we talking about piracy

[formal karma]

Yea they already said devs don't lose a single cent if you pirate so they're not the caring type anways

[glacial wren]

how is downloading a thing unethical

[stark estuary]

This isn’t a valid argument
You are assuming that there are people out there pirating games they would have bought otherwise
You are assuming that the only reason people aren’t buying those games is because piracy exists
You are assuming there aren’t also people who would only buy the games after pirating them and trying them out

But I don’t really care what you do

[jade canopy]

Because others paid for it while you didn’t

[lone crown]

I feel like arguments can be made for both sides here when it comes to “ethics”, just depends on the circumstance

[young talon]

Hello welcome 👋

[stark estuary]

It doesn’t depend on circumstance really

[astral dagger]

The only way to prevent piracy effectively is to make games
1: Affordable.
2: Easy to actually start playing once bought
3: 1 and 2 so that it takes less overall effort to buy than to pirate.

[opaque sigil]

why does it really matter that much

[full ledge]

Do you really think there isn’t a decently sized amount of people that would be buying games if they couldn’t pirate

[stark estuary]

Well aside from games that are literally unavailable

[near flame]

Its very ethical to steal from AAA companies and companies in general

[torpid orchid]

There are people who is pirating hollow knight? But it's quite cheap.

[glacial wren]

try telling an agrarian peasant from the 18th century that stealing memes is annoying

[opaque sigil]

plenty of people do immoral things all the time, if I don't hold the door for somebody because I'm having a bad day that's not the right thing to do, but it's also not causing substantial harm

[brave island]

I think by using basic critical thinking skills, you could maybe assume that a really small game that's trying to gain a following would be at a loss if a bunch of people pirated their game
it's like watching a 1k subscriber channel with adblock on lmao

[stark estuary]

If you have evidence of that I’ll believe it

[cunning geode]

they'd probably agree

[coarse leaf]

There is, the size of that group is absolutely unsubstantial and so doesnt matter tho

[astral dagger]

Nintendo fails at a for many of their old games because they simply are not available for affordable prices on common systems, meaning people that can’t afford a console for just that game will pirate and emulate instead.

[formal karma]

Let's all just say it- pirating online only games so we can play them in the case of an apocalypse is right and good...

[opaque sigil]

a really small game that's trying to gain a following would also be benefiting from that exposure if that happened

[near flame]

????

[brave island]

instead of asking for evidence lets just analyze the points the guy made, because you can still play with the situation they supplied without having statistics to back everything up

[formal karma]

Just goofing on the single player games that still require you connecting to the internet

[coarse leaf]

Do you know how much money is in gaming, the "couple people"( in the grand scheme of things) that fit in this scope( and there are people ) are in the hilariously small minority

[supple widget]

How many games from like, 20 or even 10 years ago are just not available anymore outside of piracy? Piracy saves a lot of games from being lost forever

[stark estuary]

It’s almost like you’re a fortune teller or something

[brave island]

I dont think anyone's arguing against that

[jade canopy]

So hum anyway…
Hmm

What about
Tools ? Tools are cool, what do you think of the different tools hornet can use ?

[lone crown]

This right here shouldn’t even be a thing yet it is

[glacial wren]

if you have a monkey on a typewriter they will eventually reproduce shakespeare and get sued

[stark estuary]

The points he made mean fuck all if he can’t back them up

[formal karma]

It's insane how it's a thing

[opaque sigil]

hornet should have a tool where she pulls out a flintlock and puts on an eyepatch

[stark estuary]

I could claim piracy on average doubles sales

Do you want to analyze that point for me

[supple widget]

Ok, but that is part of the argument for piracy

[jade canopy]

Btw, that game, flintlock & whatever, it looks so good

[brave island]

I think you shouldn't be promoting piracy, since the only way it could harm businesses is if the practice actually grows a big audience
but I do agree that even with indie games, if pirating makes up the minority of the players, then it wont do much

[glacial wren]

i don't care about sales that's not my problem, i just like art that doesn't wreck my bottom line

[jade canopy]

Like indie the game where you kill gods in dark souls esq boss fights with a flying fox thingy, that was showcased at the triple I initiative for example, im really exited for that one

[near flame]

What if i want to hurt businesses

[glacial wren]

adblockers are also good

[coarse leaf]

I really dont think promotion of it changes anything, piracy is ridiculously easy, lets not act like it actually requires promotion to be accessible lol

[stark estuary]

There is already a huge audience

[brave island]

if you have a good reason to, then you have a good reason to lmao

[stark estuary]

I’m willing to bet everyone here has pirated something at some point in their lives

[near flame]

Yurp

[near flame]

I agree that support small creators is good though

[stark estuary]

Wasn’t it something like half of Americans pirate regularly

I forgot the number but whatever

[supple widget]

Yeah

[brave island]

maybe promotion isnt the right word, destigmatizing rather

[glacial wren]

there are people producing weapons of mass destruction as we speak but i should feel like a cave troll for downloading a 30 year old game

[supple widget]

It's big anyways

[stark estuary]

Anyway the practice has existed for ages and companies haven’t stopped making money

[near flame]

Yeah i agree

[jade canopy]

I think that’s pretty arguable, like we still have people coming in #modding-discussion asking how to unzip folders, or literally move files between folders
It’s not that easy to the uninitiated

[stark estuary]

Games haven’t stopped being profitable, so the size of the audience is irrelevant

[brave island]

what 💀

thats just untrue

[copper knot]

i do think when it comes go piracy both make good points

1. if buying isnt ownership, piracy isnt theft. and with the growing inaccessibility of older programs and how expensive some things get (FUCK YOU ADOBE) it is very reasonable to pirate. also, there are cases of poverty, where a kid wants to catch up and not feel left out but dont have money. piracy can help them enjoy hobbies if they wouldnt be able to afford otherwise

2. a lot of indie games rely on sales to be able to support for example, server costs. without them, development will go into a halt and the indie game industry is gonna stagger. the indie industry relies on every single donation and sales they get. i know a program who was pirated so often even tho everyone uses it, the creator barely gets a penny because if u search up the program, the thing that comes up first is how to pirate it

conclusion: uh idk pirate if u genuinely have no money or if its a shitty company like adobe but else dont

[stark estuary]

You are relying on the assumption that people who pirate would have actually bought the game otherwise

[coarse leaf]

Those 2 points are also funnily enough the only 2 things you actually need to know regarding piracy

[stark estuary]

Which is almost certainly not true and causation would be impossible to prove even then

[brave island]

I agree

[glacial wren]

any video game that opens with a terms of service menu deserves to be pirated to death

[stark estuary]

Indie games don’t care scroll up

[near flame]

https://tenor.com/view/cat-gif-26024664

[brave island]

no I was referring to your claim that games arent profitable

[near flame]

Pirate cat 🙂