sk-discussion

[olive bobcat]

I can save this

[young saffron]

theres is literally no way it does not come out this year

[kindred pewter]

you can't
it's spotiover

what if it does not come out this year

[olive bobcat]

Just gotta unplug it and plug it back in again

See what did I tell you

[kindred pewter]

wow it worked

[cunning geode]

makes sense a song named trouble would do this

yeah this is nice

[olive bobcat]

[cunning geode]

i'll return the favor

[wheat sail]

Team Cherry surely were not off on their estimation by more than a year

[cunning geode]

https://open.spotify.com/track/581mukhDjta60CCwpvnjL9?si=25c6e0af7d1548c2

[young saffron]

exactly!!

[barren sequoia]

Honestly even if it doesnt come out this year I feel like we're gonna get some really big news at least

[crisp summit]

are we though

[wheat sail]

So its not coming out june?

Yeah sorry we still have to work on it

Thats fine. when then?

🏃‍♂️

[olive bobcat]

mmmm Wombat I raise you

https://open.spotify.com/track/44uQ15rLaqwhPaptftHmLH?si=0893d2c1a79b4dd4

[crisp summit]

they were just finishing up with all the bug fixes and then they had this really cool idea and then while implementing it they had three other ideas and that's where we're at

[olive bobcat]

c'mon man

[barren sequoia]

I truly do not believe they can do 2 delays without a huge content trailer or reveal

[olive bobcat]

I surrender

[barren sequoia]

Ones fine ones understandable yknow but it's still gotten quite a few people upset

[young saffron]

a 3rd gameplay trailer though?

[wheat sail]

Silksong drops out of the battlebus

[cunning geode]

i will listen give me a sec

i gave Trouble a full listen and it was nice

[unborn dome]

this guy gets it
the main difference is we are actually going to win this year

[olive bobcat]

Yeah I like Trouble

[cunning geode]

have you heard The Shins

[olive bobcat]

I've been really into the bands The Heavy and The Black Keys lately

[olive bobcat]

Don't believe so

[serene chasm]

The Shins are awesome

[young saffron]

I do love walking

[olive bobcat]

Will shuffle

[cunning geode]

https://open.spotify.com/track/74NgnKkCHlmj5BXZaF4uOG?si=cd243efb6c91435f

this is The Shins

[olive bobcat]

Kinda diggin' it

[unborn dome]

I’m going to Connecticut right now
last time I was in Connecticut we got the Xbox trailer so I trust that we’re going to get the release date trailer on April 10th

[cunning geode]

good strings, very nice

[barren sequoia]

I really like bôa

[olive bobcat]

This one my mom showed me
https://open.spotify.com/track/1ZbqAYqiaqA9aegBxFyWax?si=7ef0154832574f57

[barren sequoia]

Type 0 negative is also really good

https://open.spotify.com/track/4eGHEHqoDMMejzPhRFTc7p?si=CGEjy9lTQ52KnU4UoVz3Qg

[crisp summit]

:')

just found this

[serene chasm]

lol

[wheat sail]

Chestnut king is now dead

[lament coyote]

clueless chestnut king

[cunning geode]

i am once again sharing Burning Car but i gotta sleep

[olive bobcat]

Shot dead in #sk-discussion

[cunning geode]

https://open.spotify.com/track/6SHlVLCiYZEeQ0y7jx5Tqg?si=d0a6f75817064868

Screaming Females is just... an amazing band

[serene chasm]

ffs spotify

[lament coyote]

2024 for sure

[barren sequoia]

https://open.spotify.com/track/5PQwmOZwMhhV8q8QMpCRAZ?si=V0id0_M1QFqi1GXcg02u3Q&context=spotify%3Atrack%3A5PQwmOZwMhhV8q8QMpCRAZ absolutely adore this song

[wheat sail]

Sounds like my wife? Eh? Heh hah hah

[coral prawn]

👨‍🦲

[cunning geode]

i cant just send the music files themselves so spotify links will have to do heh

[grand ferry]

wasnt it at world cup

[cunning geode]

https://tenor.com/view/burn-flames-ahhh-yell-gif-14077714

[barren sequoia]

Do you think if you guess the right release date leth goes after you?

[grand ferry]

wait no nvm

[cunning geode]

but yeah, Rose Mountain, fantastic album top to bottom

if you like garage rock

[wooden echo]

im going to have a seizure

[coral prawn]

Why?

Fuck off

[cunning geode]

🤨

[grand ferry]

masomode twins?

[coral prawn]

[olive bobcat]

https://open.spotify.com/track/383QXk8nb2YrARMUwDdjQS?si=9303bba76d6b4dd1

[grand ferry]

how long is ur bridge for maso wof

[dapper topaz]

Nah it’s coming out in some hours bro trust me

Jokes aside, it’s funny seeing reddit cope

[grand ferry]

im just doing eternity so i may need less

[olive bobcat]

Subreddit members fear this

[coral prawn]

all of hell

[grand ferry]

how much of it did u use

[crisp summit]

i want the game to take as long as possible just to see what team cherry scope creep looks like in a released state

[cerulean sable]

whats ur opinion on far from any road

[cerulean sable]

whats the actual name for this one now?

[coral prawn]

Like half of it

[olive bobcat]

Idk I forgot

[cerulean sable]

its Roach something

DUSK ROACH

was it?

[serene chasm]

Moorwing

[cerulean sable]

Moorwing yeah

[olive bobcat]

Maybe I'll update the pic

[cerulean sable]

legit though i wonder how much the UI has changed

[cerulean sable]

both bestiary and the map is apparently going to be a lot more different now (or at least implied to be)

[wheat sail]

Idk i just heard someone say

[clever cloud]

i think we're already going to be seeing absolutely legendary levels of scope creep

[cunning geode]

had to check what that is. this is exactly the kind of music they would play in Rango

[cerulean sable]

also shoutout to KCD's map, on of my favorite designed maps in a game

[grand ferry]

yea classical drawn but lost at rapid portion

[cerulean sable]

i love the zoomed in local maps too

[serene chasm]

This is why SS is taking so long

Hand drawn detailed maps

[cerulean sable]

unirnoically expect TC to make much more "stylized" maps like these

well, not too much ofc

but a lot less plain than the first game

[crisp summit]

they had conceptualized and maybe implemented more enemies than hollow knight had on release in 2019, this games gonna have a legendary amount of unused content

or even worse, its not actually unused

[cerulean sable]

its used in the True Detective intro which i thnk is one of cooler intros of a tv series
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FxXRkqXfhYM

[wheat sail]

Nah they will be rectangles in 2 columns and 7 rows

[crisp summit]

more detailed maps would actually be cool since the zones are bigger

[cunning geode]

yeah this is very fitting for tv intro music

[cerulean sable]

TRUE

yeah i feel like with the larger areas, TC will detail the maps a little bit more

[cunning geode]

https://tenor.com/view/dune-1984-shield-gif-18397416

[barren sequoia]

Hollow knight didn't have any curves right?

[cerulean sable]

kinda?

[crisp summit]

some janky ones

[wheat sail]

Show Hitboxes: On

[cerulean sable]

yeah you saw the hitboxes for how they handled the curves for the big elevator in COT?

[barren sequoia]

Mid sentence about the big ass elevator when you sent thjs

[cerulean sable]

its actually just rectangular platforms that goes up and down based the knight's current x position?

[cunning geode]

meant that as a reply to the hitboxes joke...

[olive bobcat]

https://open.spotify.com/track/4WAnc0SDMXDzGqDfwo8OpS?si=a3b4f5c616d444b8

[crisp summit]

i mean i guess that's not the worst way to do it

[cerulean sable]

theres the one janky curve

in the hives exterior

where you get the Quick Slash

the Knight just fucking slides at mach speed because it cant really handle curves like that

[coral prawn]

what is this abomination

[crisp summit]

for some reason i keep wondering if the game's gonna have alt characters

[cunning geode]

oh yeah those curves

[crisp summit]

probably not since crests exist for the movesets but

[cunning geode]

the slide ones

[cerulean sable]

i feel like the entire criticism that HK is too boxy isnt gonna be that present in SS given that weve seen the better emphasis in ceiling curvature and the larger areas in general

[cunning geode]

and also like... hurray, a curve. yippee, my gameplay has been improved dramatically.

[barren sequoia]

Honestly I never felt it being boxy

[crisp summit]

some areas felt boxy like the crossroads

[barren sequoia]

I was so immersed in the game that just never really felt it

[crisp summit]

good art helps make it feel less like a platformer and more like a world though

[serene chasm]

Im pretty sure like 2 people complained about it being boxy. The rest of us were like "Holy shit, there really are no slopes"

[barren sequoia]

Thinking back I can yeah but nor at all while playing

The sewers definitely are boxy as shit

[cerulean sable]

https://youtube.com/clip/UgkxqqVdbHjRV4xhFVTRvS9wUAwDSLx99PQP?si=GZGfDZ9OLaQAb9V7

also the BGs feel more "open" no?

[crisp summit]

yeah

hollow knight just feels like a very cramped cave

most of the time anyway

[cunning geode]

hmmm many HK backgrounds expanded far into the distance

[serene chasm]

They did

[cerulean sable]

yeah im asking cuz i might be more biased

i guess its the lighting

[cunning geode]

more of a good thing

[cerulean sable]

the ones in HK had these larger BGs but its a lot more dark

[crisp summit]

this game looks so much better than hollow knight though lol

[cunning geode]

i should really snooze now tho

[crisp summit]

just the colors and contrast i guess but

[cerulean sable]

Deep Docks has the advantage of showing distant lava rivers

[barren sequoia]

I think the art progression adds more depth yeah

[cerulean sable]

colors too

[cerulean sable]

good night wombat

[cerulean sable]

UGHHHH

man they realy nailed the Citadel BGs

[dapper topaz]

Like… white palace?

[crisp summit]

i love the foreground here

[serene chasm]

Now imagine all that in motion

[barren sequoia]

My biggest issue with cot was it didn't feel as big as it was supposed to be

[cerulean sable]

WP bgs was plain af

[olive bobcat]

Bet you $5 there's gonna be a huge gate manned by a tiny bug asking for a toll

[cunning geode]

even in crossroads

[cerulean sable]

then again its a dream realm so i cant argue too much

[barren sequoia]

It felt more like the part we explore is the only part and not just a tidbit

[cunning geode]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/397062813949886466/1225954123900256318/IMG_3697.gif

[cerulean sable]

but SS has these overarching towering BG elements

[crisp summit]

i mean... makes sense

[serene chasm]

Batimas rosaries

[crisp summit]

you can really see ari's improvement over time

[cerulean sable]

honestly the first one that caught my attention is Junk Pit

while the game did have open BGs, it was the first one that awed me

[serene chasm]

Ari was always this good. But he now has time

[haughty pumice]

Yeah

[cerulean sable]

just because you could see Fungal Shrooms and the huge pillars supporting the city far in the BG

[crisp summit]

i wonder what hollow knight would look like now, with his improved art style and bigger budget

[haughty pumice]

The Junk Pit is much more expanded the rest of HK backgrounds

[cerulean sable]

Hollow Knight remastered /s

yeah

[barren sequoia]

The dump is definitely my favorite

[haughty pumice]

I doubt it would change a lot , just the little things in backgrounds and probably some improved models
Hollow Knight's art direction is still top notch

Heh , notch

[cerulean sable]

also a big thing is the colors

[crisp summit]

maybe

yeah i much prefer the brighter and more saturated look silksong has

[haughty pumice]

Oh yeah they seem to be much more vibrant and colourful in Silksong

[crisp summit]

it's just an artistic choice since silksong isn't a dead zombie kingdom but yea

[haughty pumice]

Even from the first area

[cerulean sable]

im gonna try to make a pallete comparison

[barren sequoia]

We do get stuff like greymore though as well

[haughty pumice]

I guess that's to balance it out lol

[dapper topaz]

Greymoor feels like standard HK area yeah

[barren sequoia]

I feel like the contrast between the liveliness of the normal land and the machines and waste of others is going to be big

[crisp summit]

which is good

lots of variety

[dapper topaz]

That coal place though

That’s a unique take on urban theme

[haughty pumice]

Industrial Revolution

I really like that approach

[barren sequoia]

Could not grt my hand on the word Industrial for some reason

[haughty pumice]

Even the big tower with all the gears and machines

[haughty pumice]

Fair

[dapper topaz]

But I tell you, the area I’m hyped for the most has to be the coral forest area

Like, that is going to be peak

[crisp summit]

something i hadn't really noticed before is that the foreground in silksong actually looks like part of the environment

[atomic sparrow]

hey guys

[barren sequoia]

I just have a huge feeling the moss grotto or bonebottom is not going to be the lowest part of pharloom we explore

[haughty pumice]

Gives me big Shovel Knight Tinker Tower or some castles in the new Super Mario series vibes , which I very much like

[haughty pumice]

Facts

[crisp summit]

probably, first area in hollow knight isn't the highest

[cyan forum]

THERE HE IS GET HIM

[haughty pumice]

TC always give us surprises

[dapper topaz]

What’s your most anticipated area?

[tender saffron]

It's been like two years since I played through Hollow Knight, I should probably rectify that soon

[atomic sparrow]

https://tenor.com/view/baka-mi-bye-baka-mitai-baka-yakuza-yikes-gif-16198663826791911797

[barren sequoia]

The water ones look quite fun

The ant village looks cool as well

[dapper topaz]

Ah yes the ant village

[tender saffron]

Is there environment/map info out there that's not in the trailers, or are people extrapolating from the trailer content?

[haughty pumice]

The tower with all the machinery
It's just a very interesting take for me
And watching all the cogs in the background and puzzles we'll probably make

[dapper topaz]

Ants actually have cooler enemy designs than I had imagined

[haughty pumice]

Mossbag did make a video about it

[dapper topaz]

Ayy

[barren sequoia]

Just the trailers and pre existing knowledge im pretty sure

Mossbag did try to map it all out yeah

[tender saffron]

Thanks I'll look that up, I mostly like going into games blind but I can't help but want to see a bit more of Silksong

[dapper topaz]

He ended up making among us tho-

[haughty pumice]

IKR

[cerulean sable]

speaking of which though, i still did see someone talking about how theyre still dissapointed with SS' artstyle

well mostly because of the color

[crisp summit]

i'm surprised they were able to make it so distinct from the first game while keeping the same style

[dapper topaz]

Personally, imho, SS is looking fantastic art-wise

[cerulean sable]

their main complaint was that it still looked very muted, which i kinda get why but like
the colors used by the Xbox trailer was in general cramped and dark

but yeah i greatly disagree though

[haughty pumice]

Already beautiful colours and pallets into further masterpieces

[cerulean sable]

the foregrounds and the rocks are dark yeah but, the colors are far from muted

[barren sequoia]

Well I think a game still has to stick somewhat to the previous visual style

[serene chasm]

I know you were trying to show how SS looks better (At least I think you are) but man, HK is fucking beautiful

[cerulean sable]

yup yup

[haughty pumice]

Of course

[tender saffron]

Like my number of played hours/completed runs is probably in the bottom 10% of this server, I don't play most games a whole lot and don't generally care to get into repeating content to master mechanics ala Path of Pain, and yet Hollow Knight remains one of the most stand-out experiences I've ever had with a video game.

[barren sequoia]

Its not like ari is going to drastically change his art style as well

[crisp summit]

well yeah but it also doesn't look like hollow knight again, silksong looks noticeably different

[haughty pumice]

RIGHT? Literally a 10/10 if you get invested into it

[dapper topaz]

HK still has alright backgrounds, but Silksong backgrounds have a lot more vibe and life to them

[barren sequoia]

Even if the art might go in a brighter direction its still going to share a lot of the same art elements as hk just because of the same people doing it

[dapper topaz]

Again, it could be because of themes

[dapper topaz]

Shrue

[barren sequoia]

I think its themes and just time most likely

[crisp summit]

definitely because of the games different themes

[cerulean sable]

their main criticism was "the ground layers contrasting the colors is still too dark/not bright enough that you still cant tell which is a platform or a BG" which again, i greatly disagree but i kinda understand what they mean

[barren sequoia]

Been 7 years since hk release

[cerulean sable]

overall the trailer didnt really show the coral areas as well

and the moss area

[barren sequoia]

Do they have a really dim monitor?

[dapper topaz]

Yeah I wanna see coral areas more fr

[cerulean sable]

my guess is they probably expected it to be much more vibrant 🥴

i dont mind the rock colorings though, its part of the art style like you said

Silksong maybe brighter and much more vibrant, but that doesnt mean its gonna start using pastel colors

[crisp summit]

maybe just for one area...

[cerulean sable]

also, it gives the game a gloomy atmosphere

[wheat sail]

Itll be like content warning. One area is super bright and happy then the next is despair

[barren sequoia]

I feel like the first few areas are going to try and be drastically different from hk

[atomic sparrow]

i like the art from silksong

[wheat sail]

😄

[dapper topaz]

And some area with a mix of both

[cerulean sable]

i think people is having the wrong expectations here, just because the kingdom is more alive, doesnt mean its gonna 100% go full switch on the artstyle and go overtly vibrant with it

[crisp summit]

some areas will have silk and some will have song

[cerulean sable]

the game is still defo gonna be gloomy

[barren sequoia]

But the game will mellow out to be more like hk but still its own vibe yknow

[cerulean sable]

just more colorful and brighter at it

[atomic sparrow]

peak !!!

[tender saffron]

Hollow Knight is a god damn masterpiece example of relatively minimalist art and sound design being used to create something beautifully unique and memorable.

What's in the trailers for Silksong has me needing that fuckin game, it's gorgeous, and I never get hype over dumb video games

[dapper topaz]

They’ll be very bright, pretty much a different direction from HK’s starting area

[cerulean sable]

also its a good inbetween

[crisp summit]

i mean yeah moss grotto kinda sets the tone

[barren sequoia]

But I think bonebottom and moss grotto were picked for the demo for a very big reason and not just because they're early in the game

[crisp summit]

it's such a bright starting area compared to dirtmouth/crossroads

[barren sequoia]

Theres absolutely nothing like them in hk

[cerulean sable]

sometimes a game tries to go the uber gritty dark atmosphere where its all the blander brown/grey color style and at the same time being overtly bright that it looks like a generic WOW artstyle

HK and Silksong goes a good inbetween

[dapper topaz]

However, I think Greenpath is one of the areas which was early game and also lively

[barren sequoia]

I think the color just fits hornets character a bit more as well

She's gloomy and mysterious in hk but she definitely seems like a happier type of character than the vessel

[olive bobcat]

Bro I need Andor season 2 so bad

[atomic sparrow]

hey aluo

[olive bobcat]

Hiiii Andy

[atomic sparrow]

hey guyys

[dapper topaz]

TK was just a sad lil character trying to find his purpose in the world

[crisp summit]

games never coming out

[barren sequoia]

Yeah thats true but by comparison even greenpath is insanely muted

[lament coyote]

platforming section that gives only a limited amount of time.... that's gonna be difficult

[serene chasm]

SS needs more guts and blood

Its too happy imo

[cerulean sable]

i kinda do miss the older color shading though

1st image is the reveal trailer

[lament coyote]

[cerulean sable]

2nd image is from the latest PS page screenshots

[crisp summit]

i mean... different areas?

[olive bobcat]

Yeah I like the color of the first pic

[cerulean sable]

that could also be true

[serene chasm]

I wonder if theyre from different areas

[barren sequoia]

I think first is lava area most likely

[tender saffron]

I think the warm hues of some regions are going to be contrasted by some rather more grimdark regions

[barren sequoia]

And 2nd might be more greymore?

[cerulean sable]

honestly at this ponit, i wouldnt be surprised if Ari made art based on the maps

but still

[serene chasm]

Different FT cutscene depending where you travel from

[barren sequoia]

I feel like everything surrounding the citadel is going to be all gloom

[dapper topaz]

And I thought Greenpath was the best area TC made-

I can’t wait to see more areas which we don’t know about at all

[coarse leaf]

When is it realesining

[crisp summit]

never

[coarse leaf]

Fuck

[cerulean sable]

but still, the overall color shading was definitely not an isolated case

i do like how the colors pop out more in the new images tho

[coarse leaf]

Smash

[crisp summit]

yeah i like the first one a bit more here

[dapper topaz]

1st one better for sure

[barren sequoia]

I think 2nd looks more like a game yknow

[cerulean sable]

like yeah the orange haze does add to the original version, but on the flipside youll notice the lava colors are much much more vibrant in comparison

[lament coyote]

they managed to make it look like some boss that will lag your game...

[barren sequoia]

1st seems almost too cinematic

[cerulean sable]

also sometimes its not just for art

its also for clarity sake

[crisp summit]

it's for clarity

[cerulean sable]

yeah

[crisp summit]

yeah i get why they changed it, same with blurring the background in the swampy area

hard to see the boss's limbs in the first one

[long python]

what's the most recent?

[terse basin]

Right one.

[long python]

I see them top to bottom

💀

[crisp summit]

the one without the orange haze

[long python]

aha okay thanks

[cerulean sable]

it also doesnt help, is that one of the bigger visibility adjustments they do for HK is they add a soft lighting around the knight, for Hornet its that and ofc her distinct red cloak

having an orange haze is probably impacting it during playtesting

[long python]

I love the newer one I think

looks more crisp

[barren sequoia]

Im really excited for this boss honestly

[cerulean sable]

and honestly if youve played it enough, it is probably overbearing and annoying 🥴

[barren sequoia]

Always been a stood out for me

[cerulean sable]

god one thing im hoping that SS breaks is the big boss cycle

[wheat sail]

Snake?

[cerulean sable]

you know, this syndrome in most games with giant bosses

[wheat sail]

Poor vessel

[barren sequoia]

I just dont want no more flying bosses man

[cerulean sable]

giant bosses be like "let me cycle through 2 of these really really slow attacks while you fight against the camera"

[crisp summit]

it's just kind of a result of them being easier to hit

[long python]

nothing like it on HK

one of the blasphemous bosses like him was really fun for me

(side note but blasphemous bosses go FUCKING HARD)

[crisp summit]

and yeah to make them feel "bigger" their attacks are usually slower which

[atomic sparrow]

2 v 1
the boss and the camera vs me...

[barren sequoia]

Well with hornets having less vertically I doubt as many bosses will fly

[wheat sail]

Flukemarm double team

[cerulean sable]

im actually expecting them to experiment with flying bosses

[barren sequoia]

[atomic sparrow]

that one silver dude

[cerulean sable]

like say, a boss with no platform and mostly based on wall climbing floating pillars

[long python]

flying bosses are fine I don't get the hate for them

[cerulean sable]

yeah

[barren sequoia]

I LOVE WAITING TO ATTACK

[atomic sparrow]

forgot his name

[crisp summit]

just let hornet crawl up walls with a spider crawl thing instead

good boss verticality

[wheat sail]

Hornet gets into a mini airship and it becomes a bullet hell

[cerulean sable]

OH YEAH speaking of wall climb

[long python]

boss that utilizes the grappler 🤤

[cerulean sable]

unironically guys, how would you feel for a wall climb stick mechanic?

[serene chasm]

The final boss will just be the last boss of SotC

[barren sequoia]

They should just copy everything from ori and the will of thr wisps

[cerulean sable]

like something allows hornet to just stay on the same spot on the wall

instead of the usual keep sliding thing

[barren sequoia]

Feel like she would stab a wall

[cerulean sable]

yeah something like that

[long python]

eh

[cerulean sable]

should be optional though

[long python]

maybe not all walls

but not a bad concept

[barren sequoia]

Might be a sort of cool replacement for a double jump

[serene chasm]

Yeah, I think a tool of some sort would be cool

[cerulean sable]

i feel like it would be jank to implement though

[long python]

we're definitely getting a double jump

[barren sequoia]

Well they've the had the time to figure that out

[serene chasm]

Sure you can stick to walls but you are giving up something for it

[long python]

no doubt, I'm also glad the game will add a mantle mechanic 😭

[cerulean sable]

but having a specific wall where its a "no slide" would probably work? but could also fuck with muscle memory

[olive bobcat]

"What is my sacrifice? I'm condemned to use the tools of my enemy to defeat them. I burn my decency for someone else's future. I burn my life to make a sunrise that I know I'll never see."

[dapper topaz]

There’s also the glowing womb thing in SS

[barren sequoia]

Mantle and grapple I'm pretty sure right?

[olive bobcat]

https://tenor.com/view/fire-writing-gif-24533171

[cerulean sable]

cogflies

its in the nendoroid

[long python]

yeah

and sprint apparently

[dapper topaz]

Ah yes I remember

[crisp summit]

something like the metroid 2 wall ball

[cerulean sable]

god i love the detail though

[cerulean sable]

how hornet takes existing tools and tinkers it to her own version

[dapper topaz]

I probably won’t have the cogflies on tho

[barren sequoia]

Would be cool if the cogflys were upgradeable throughout the game

[cerulean sable]

i feel like lessons learned in HK, theyre gonna make these tools scale

[crisp summit]

i hope crafting tools isn't ass

[cerulean sable]

i think its mentioned you can upgrade tools

[dapper topaz]

Oh wait yeah she actually throws them lol

[crisp summit]

i don't wanna lose to a boss and then have to pause to grind my tools back

[barren sequoia]

Not just like you can summon some cool minions but throughout the game they can get additional skills and designs

Like have them kamikaze

[serene chasm]

Wish they showed off more power attacks

[cerulean sable]

man homing bomb flies was fun as hell

[long python]

game has crafting...? it's over

[cerulean sable]

yeah shit damage but it was flashy

[crisp summit]

yea

[dapper topaz]

Yeah well I’m sure cogflies will have a lot more function in SS

Unlike HK where they just popped up and ate soul

[cerulean sable]

i love shouting MISSILES AWAY everytime my dung flylings starts homing on enemies

[long python]

I hate crafting in games 🙄

just make it a point system/currency

[serene chasm]

Not that we know of

[long python]

why do I gotta look for resources and stuff

[crisp summit]

no we do know it has tool crafting

[barren sequoia]

Wonder if ss is going to be more open or still strict like a metrovania

[serene chasm]

Basically you can get things made and then fix them up with shards

[cerulean sable]

it reminds me of Buzzcrave from Patapon 3]

https://static.wikia.nocookie.net/patapon/images/0/00/Burning_Fly.gif/revision/latest?cb=20121012215338

[lament coyote]

it would make sense but at the same time it sounds a bit too op

[long python]

hoping for the latter

[crisp summit]

wall stick would be really cool

[barren sequoia]

With hornet having to climb up, I feel like it would be easier to restrict her movement without specific tools

[cerulean sable]

i feel like Silksong is gonna be structured less as metroidvania

like its there

[lament coyote]

sadge

[cerulean sable]

but its not gonna go follow the convention to the T

[crisp summit]

good

[cerulean sable]

they did say Hollow Knight was never meant to be a metroidvania in the sense

[serene chasm]

SS gonna do its own thing

[crisp summit]

i want to be able to explore without arbitrary ability gates

[atomic sparrow]

budget crystal dash stall

[weary estuary]

HI CURLY

[crisp summit]

dog ass mechanic

[weary estuary]

Curly, Simo said I can have admin now

[serene chasm]

ok

[weary estuary]

Thank you 🙏

[serene chasm]

Why didnt he give it to you

[dapper topaz]

According to articles I’ve read tools will change Hornet’s moving style

Or add new moves altogether which is super cool

Like, she already has this default acrobatic moveset and we actually get more options than that?

That is one of the things which makes me feel SS world will be a lot more open than HK

[crisp summit]

crests have different move sets which i think includes mobility

[weary estuary]

He got hit by a car midway theough 😔

[long python]

I'm also thinking more freedom, more ways to bypass obstacles/access places

HK was too obvious about "you need this EXACT ability to go there"

allowing more builds and stuff for variety when it comes to platforming would be fire

[serene chasm]

F

[weary estuary]

Yeah truly unfortunate

[cerulean sable]

they were just "oh hey lets use this game's system as an inspiration", did that for every game mechanic that they liked, and ended up with the final product
its why HK is a bit of an anomaly in the more hardcore metroidvania part, it has this discourse where people are saying its too open to be a metroidvania
the thing is, like what TC said they werent really following genre conventions to begin with

[lament coyote]

i think crests referred to combat abilities not mobility

[serene chasm]

Man. I am so excited for speedruns in SS, and I dont care for speedrunning

[tawdry valley]

HK had plenty of skips. Where it mattered, I think it being obvious to know when you have a new place to go is a good thing

[barren sequoia]

Im excited for the fucking lore man

[long python]

not really counting skips as they're often not intended tbf

[atomic sparrow]

i'm excited

[barren sequoia]

I want all the shit on pharloom

[cerulean sable]

so honestly, this is gonna sound weird but i might even feel HK is gonna go full semi open world adventure this time and the metroidvania elements is gonna be way way less pronounced

[tawdry valley]

They’re often very intended

[lament coyote]

everything is intended

[crisp summit]

i hope halfway through the game hornet reveals 2 additional arms and starts dual wielding from that point on

[tawdry valley]

every skip where you pogo a background object is allegedly intended

[barren sequoia]

I cant wait to find out what eldritch abomination awaits us at the top

[crisp summit]

more breath of the wild style where there's a main objective and a bunch of side content is what i'm feeling

[long python]

did they say this or are you just joking 😭

[potent plover]

I'm wondering if the new attacks from crests might also be used to unlock new areas, While less obvious than something like Isma's tear

[dapper topaz]

Unfortunately I haven’t played too many other metros

But I played HK like a madman

[crisp summit]

i hope not

[tawdry valley]

They did. Watcher knights and hallownest peak are good examples

[long python]

clips thru a wall
"yeah intended game design buddy"

[barren sequoia]

Only issue with that, is benches would have to he a lot more prominent

[crisp summit]

crests just being full blown alternate movesets sounds cooler than them being ability gates

[cerulean sable]

TC said they knew some people would do skips on certain areas, thats why they would intentionally put props and enemies
but they admit not ALL of it are intended and sometimes its only found out by the community by themselves (which they love when it happens)

they usually dont mind as long as the skip doesnt softlock the game

[barren sequoia]

Imagine getting to a new area but not being able to progress because you have the wrong crest

[tawdry valley]

Pogoing a background object =/= game engine bug =]

[crisp summit]

wasn't it around 100 benches when the edge magazine came out slightly over 3 years ago?

[barren sequoia]

I think crests would be an additional 2-3 attacks and different item slots and not much else honestly

[crisp summit]

someone mentioned crests are pretty substantial

[barren sequoia]

Maybe dialogue actually

[crisp summit]

i mean we saw one of them, you literally get the pogo back lol

[barren sequoia]

Changes how the citizens view hornet

[dapper topaz]

That would be

[cerulean sable]

crests is probably the trickiest part to balance around

[long python]

I remember seeing a video on how the HK background was made, it's actually 3d, layers ontop of eachother to display a sense of distance between background objects

very creative

[cerulean sable]

given the platforming of the game

[crisp summit]

i hope each crest has its own path of pain

[barren sequoia]

Like if you go the 3 clawed one people might treat you like more of a savage

[lament coyote]

genuinely hope it won't be that way

[inland ravine]

good afternoon

[cerulean sable]

i do feel like with the inclusion of crests, some of the more specific platforming segments are going to disappear

[dapper topaz]

I want more than that

[cerulean sable]

since not all pogos are the same

[serene chasm]

GWNJ

[crisp summit]

sad but understandable

[lament coyote]

diagonal pogo my worst nightmare...

[cerulean sable]

or theyll find a way to incorporate for all movesets

what i do expect for a POP equivalent is

TC is going to make you use all the crests

[lament coyote]

[inland ravine]

[cerulean sable]

like say the POP equivalent will have 5 different sections
each section is going to require a different crest

[barren sequoia]

Could be awesome if later in the game you could just switch crests on the fly

[crisp summit]

that could work too

[cerulean sable]

so youre expected to master all 5 crests movesets

[atomic sparrow]

tf is POP

[barren sequoia]

Like dante style

[crisp summit]

ping of pong

[dapper topaz]

path of pain

[lament coyote]

won't that mean you'll have a bench or alike so you can quit whenever and it doesn't reset

[barren sequoia]

Crests might not be benched locked honestly

[long python]

I'll leak some confidential info my private sources informed me on

the main area in SS where you interact with most npcs is gonna be multiple levels and every level will have 2 or 3 platforms with a room on each platform.

my source? I dreamed of it being like this (wish I was joking 😭)

[crisp summit]

somehow i feel like they'll have more endgame challenges than HK did with troupe

[barren sequoia]

They could fully just be changed on the fly

[dapper topaz]

Also what is with the cocoon thing when we die

[serene chasm]

I hope not. I want to do a crestless playthrough

[inland ravine]

curly

[atomic sparrow]

it appeared to me in a dream...

[cerulean sable]

well tbf

[lament coyote]

iirc someone here said there won't be an equivalent to pantheons?

[cerulean sable]

i dont think TC will force you to use other crests

just that for the OPTIONAL pop equiv, it will be

[crisp summit]

yeah i think so

[cerulean sable]

as its more of a test that you mastered all the movement abilities

but again it would be mostly optional

for the main game, you can main whatever crest you want

but man it sounds like a huge undertaking

[crisp summit]

i think it's fine if they have areas designed around a specific crest

[lament coyote]

the most aggressive playstyle is always the best

[crisp summit]

and you can use different crests to make it easier or harder

[long python]

I mean what's a metroidvania that doesn't force you to use certain abilities at certain places

probably gonna have to look for skips if you wanna do this

[barren sequoia]

Thats probably what I'm gonna go with yeah

[cerulean sable]

theyd have to design the bosses, areas, enemies etc to accomodate each crests and considering Leth (iirc) said that Crests are more of a playstyle eccentric choice rather than a pure progression/upgrade choice, thats a lot of work to be done

[crisp summit]

i think they're not that bad to balance in combat since the main focus there is gonna be how hornet can dodge

[barren sequoia]

There is definitely going to be a meta crest sadly

[crisp summit]

making the platforming engaging for all crests is what seems impossible

[cerulean sable]

like, if you cant beat a boss with a certain crest, what are your options?

A. redesign the crest
B. redesign the boss
C. (least preferable) redesign so that youre expected to constantly swap crests based on the situation

[barren sequoia]

Even if its designed for playstyle one is just going to be better than others I feel like

[serene chasm]

Crests only seem to change up attacks and give more or less tool slots. They probably dont change abilities

That be dumb since you would need to swap

[cerulean sable]

yeah

[lament coyote]

or simply get better

[long python]

honestly I got no idea what crests are I just assumed 🙌

trying to be (mostly) blind about SS

[crisp summit]

crests are alternate movesets

[lament coyote]

because it's really close to not being able to defeat some bosses with a certain charm loadout

[long python]

that sounds cool actually

[cerulean sable]

i mean ofc some crests will probably excel on certain areas and bosses
thats the crux of builds after all, sometimes a fight is hard for a mage but a breeze for a warrior class, but vice versa for others

the challenge is making those bosses STILL possible even if it is harder, without telling the player to change their playstyle

[young saffron]

idk if its just me but imaging different attack styles on a 2d game seems so weird?

[serene chasm]

someone post the crest image

[barren sequoia]

Would be cool if the first crest would be related to hallownest

[wheat sail]

Crest gives 2% chance to heal on hit

[potent plover]

Does anyone have the crest attack sheet? I'd like to see how big is the difference is between crests, biggest change I know currently is diagonal pogo into downwards pogo with harp crest

[crisp summit]

like by default, hornet has a diagonal pogo, but one of the crests brings back the one from hollow knight

[lament coyote]

average terraria experience

[lament coyote]

THERE IS A DOWNWARDS POGO?

oh holy shit that changes things

[crisp summit]

yeah

[potent plover]

Yeah, its just like the hollow knight pogo

[barren sequoia]

Like the default move set mentions something about how she was trained and stuff

[potent plover]

i can send a screenshot hold on

[crisp summit]

i mean it's not hollow knight without the pogo

[lament coyote]

that definitely changes things

[crisp summit]

i hope there's a spider crest that just makes her do crazy spider bullshit

[cerulean sable]

one thing i really dont like is when the solution for a wall is to simply swap it up

Scenario: "Oh I cant beat this boss!"
Desirable Answer: "Oh this boss is harder for your class, BUT what you can do is instead use your [class ability] to get some hits in. Its going to be harder than [other class] but its definitely doable."

Non Desirable Answer: "Theres no shame to just respeccing for this fight bro. Just use this [hyper specific weapons with hyper specific skills] then just swap back again after"

[crisp summit]

well, it's unavoidable that some bosses will be harder or easier based on your crest

[cerulean sable]

yeah yeah

the point is, it should all still be viable even if its harder

[crisp summit]

yeah

they don't look like they change things that much so it shouldn't be too drastic

[barren sequoia]

I dont think hollow knight ever had me blocked because of a charm or anything like that

[serene chasm]

The game should encourage experimentation though

[barren sequoia]

I do tbink team cherry is pretty damn good with the bosses

[lament coyote]

that giant ass screenshot with all the special attacks?

[cerulean sable]

like i get needing to adapt/experiment to situations, but imo that facet should be accomodated by tools
for something like moveset and playstyle, its annoying to get told to simply change

[grand ferry]

the non desirable answer is just borderlands 2 uvhm on op levels

[potent plover]

I don't think the crest changes the basic attack very much, I think it's mainly the more complex attack it allows you to experiment with and change to your liking

[crisp summit]

i found this

[cerulean sable]

WHAT? I CANT HEAR YOU. IM TOO BUSY APPLYING SLAG ON EVERY SINGLE FUCKING THING

[cerulean sable]

afaik Arch has an updated version he made

[grand ferry]

DO YOU NOT HAVE A PERFECT PARTS BEE SHIELD SAND HAWK CONFERENCE CALL AND PIMPERNEL

[cerulean sable]

@brittle garnet do you have the latest copy for this

[cerulean sable]

TRUEE

[potent plover]

shit didn't mean to send that

[wheat sail]

You think ian wins this candidates

[grand ferry]

i hope so

[lament coyote]

time to guess which one is the quickest and damages the most

[wheat sail]

I want ding to defend the titlw

[barren sequoia]

I wonder if the damage values for crests would be different

I cant see hornets nail being broken like the vessels

[grand ferry]

it'd be nice to get the wc title after winning candidates for the third time in a row

[potent plover]

makes me wonder if there'll be upgrades to the needle

[wheat sail]

I watched a vid about ding and it made me emotional 🧑‍🏫

[lament coyote]

might be

[grand ferry]

also fide what the fuck why did you remove the spot for the Challenger

[wheat sail]

Though ian deserves it too if he wins again

[wheat sail]

Wdym

[grand ferry]

the player who wins the candidates get to:

• be the Challenger for the WC
• auto qualify for the next candidates

the second was axed for all future candidates tournaments

[wheat sail]

No auto qualify anymore?

ok

Besides magnus i feel everyone in the top 10 isnt that far from each other

[grand ferry]

true

[tawdry valley]

Literally never used slag or farmed for bl2

Scratch that, I think I did farm for an infinity once

[cerulean sable]

apparently according my BL2 addicted friend, its only really a thing in Ultimate Vault Hunter difficulty

[grand ferry]

what is the worst bl2 dlc in your opinion

[tawdry valley]

But that part of the game wasn’t really appealing to me, I’m surprised it’s considered on of the headliners of the game

[lament coyote]

the 3rd one looks the most awkward just because wtf is this downslash

[cerulean sable]

shame

[tawdry valley]

Definitely correct, but that’s also because that difficulty sucks

[cerulean sable]

whenever someone says "the real game starts at [NG+ style harder game mode]"

im like thanks i guess but ill prefer just replaying the game with a different character

[tawdry valley]

BL difficulty makes every mistake in the book. No enemy variety changes, hp scaling, damage scaling

[tawdry valley]

For sure

[grand ferry]

to be fair, there are some weapon tiers that are locked behind uvhm so that could be an incentive

[cerulean sable]

yeah i know

[tawdry valley]

It invites you to break the difficulty, which would be cool, but it’s not a roguelike, it’s a grind

[grand ferry]

i have never gotten a pearl before

[tawdry valley]

Etech is fun to try though

[cerulean sable]

Grim Dawn (an ARPG) was originally designed to be cleared 3 times (Normal / Elite / Ultimate) difficulties and a lot of people say the REAL game is on Ultimate where you have more or less defined your build

[grand ferry]

i really really didnt like etech

[tawdry valley]

I saw it few enough times to give it a go and enjoy it basically

[cerulean sable]

but the devs understood that a lot of players are altaholics and noone has time to realize their builds by then, so they 1. allowed you to skip to Ultimate diff directly after beating the main boss 2. scaled enemies to go up to level 100

[tawdry valley]

Legendaries are the main casual appeal of BL loot though, which the game does very well

[tawdry valley]

Interesting…

[grand ferry]

what is altaholic

[cerulean sable]

that means you can still hit the "apex" of your build in a single playthrough

people who make different characters

"oh you cleared our game? congrats! now its time for the real challenge for your build where you play the entire thing again but this time its harder and also late game dungeon an- oh youre making a new character instead ok"

sometimes dont even push through the final final optional dungeons

they just play a character/build, clear the game, then do it again for different build

hence the Grim Dawn devs added the option to skip to Ultimate difficulty so you go straight for the "full experience" so to say from the get go, and the level scaling means you can reliably hit the level cap in a single run

back then it was like expected to level up in runs with (Also mind you, in GD each difficulty is the SAME campaign but just harder, so you had to technically do the same campaign 3 times with the same character, and a lot of people by then would just rather make a new one)
Normal Difficulty: Level 1-50
Elite Difficulty: Level 50-80
Ultimate Difficulty: 80-100

with the update where they rescaled enemy levels, even on Normal difficulty you can hit up to level 80 reliably, which is more than enough for you to experience the most of what your build can offer

[grand ferry]

oyea grinding levels on bl2 is just

[cerulean sable]

yeah

for the casual playersbase like, i prefer just playing with a single char and reaching the final boss with a more complete build, and being able to hit near the max level without going through the same campaign makes it way more fun

you dont get that same FOMO of "Oh im near the end of the campaign but i never got to experience using the last few special abilities in my skill tree, but im also not willing on rerunning NG+ just so i can grind those levels. Id rather just make a new build by then"

[young saffron]

.

[crisp summit]

crests

[cerulean sable]

oh yeah wanted to mention this earlier cuz someone discussed atmosphere, one thing that Larkin talked about in his QnA around late last year is his using of a droning background in his music

he apparently does this so he has an initial idea when making music but it also adds a lot to the atmosphere, and one of my favorite instance is in Dream Battle https://youtu.be/uAmgPYMY3o8?t=40

youll hear that "whooshing" ghostly droning sound in the BG layer

[weary estuary]

Oh that is crazy

[lofty vault]

https://youtu.be/ZqFG_h7kXEg?si=A9PJxr8zlnhzgOYg I can’t stop watching the demo footage and imagining if this is 5 years old what the game is like now

The soundtrack for Deep docks sounds so good

Very eerie

[young saffron]

how come some ppl have such direct footage of the demo?

[cerulean sable]

yeah the little details that theyve added over the years would be cool to see

like in the Edge magazine, the Deep Docks arena had new scorch marks added to them

sorry my copy is a bit scuffed

[uncut citrus]

yeah the bell is much better

[cerulean sable]

but if i had a higher res, youll notice the random assortment has much more grimier textures added to them

yeah the bell is the most obvious improvement

[weary estuary]

What do you mean the new scorch marks?

[cerulean sable]

its hard to show cuz its so low res on my side lmao

[young saffron]

nice find

[cerulean sable]

but basically the newer version in Edge has burnt marks all over the floors and stuff

notice the bell too, they added a cracked segment and a darker top shading to it

[young saffron]

even these newer details are around 3? years ago 😭

[cerulean sable]

yeah exactly

[weary estuary]

Jesus

[cerulean sable]

this were details added 3 years ago

oh here

OLD

[uncut citrus]

less old

[cerulean sable]

"New"

[weary estuary]

I think I see what you mean

[cerulean sable]

then the bells

also i noticed, im not sure if this is a footage capturing issue

but the edge has more vibrant lava BGs

[cerulean sable]

Pretty inline to their recent changes on reducing the haze and increasing the contrast on alot of objects

also i like how you can see a subtle warp due to the new haze

i thought it was just drawing error actually

then realize thats from the heat haze vfx

man you know the best part is we havent even seen it in actual action

most of the latest stuff we got was from Xbox last year

[exotic geyser]

ttacco it was two years ago...

[cerulean sable]

make that 2 years 🥴

I KNOWWW 😭

THIS IS ME RIGHT NOW HOLY SHIT

[exotic geyser]

the ineecapable passage of time..

hmm do you know if the coral area changed much? we didnt see it in the 2022 trailer, but maybe the edge stuff has some improvements

[cerulean sable]

the last image we had was on the PS5 page

[exotic geyser]

ooh

[cerulean sable]

which released roughly the same right?

[exotic geyser]

yeah i think

[cerulean sable]

because iirc 1 month after Xbox, they said "oh and uhh PS as well"

https://twitter.com/DailySilksong/status/1571055989453127682 yup

still blue

look at those high def clovers man

jesus christ

[uncut citrus]

pretty..

[cerulean sable]

Ari please

[kindred pewter]

silksong shouldhave dynamic color

based of my windows background the color of the game will change

[cerulean sable]

this is the old version, i think they touched up on those rocks

[cerulean sable]

RAZER CORTEX INTEGRATION

[young saffron]

what? isnt this an aluo fake 😭 ?

[cerulean sable]

is it

[young saffron]

I dont even know any more

[uncut citrus]

yeah

[kindred pewter]

we must ask aluo ourselves if this is a fake

[cerulean sable]

yeah but

[uncut citrus]

but he only faked the masks so

[young saffron]

ig the environment is untouched

[cerulean sable]

ok it is a fake but afaik the actual environment isnt

yeah

im pointing out on the environment

[uncut citrus]

it's like the environment stays the same

we all 3 said the exact same thing we're so silly imo

[young saffron]

this boss seems so hype I cant even express it

[kindred pewter]

I bet this boss will have an attack that one-taps us

[cerulean sable]

im more excited for the Citadel Scissor Knight

god i hope hes not just another moss knight

his design goes too hard

[kindred pewter]

what if he is just another moss knight

[cerulean sable]

i will cry

there better be a bigger version

but now quad wields scissors

like fuckin Grievious

obligatory @ ddx

but yeah

[young saffron]

who is this again? tried using google but nothing came up lol

[cerulean sable]

vast prefer the new rocks, the old ones were too grainy

[kindred pewter]

tbh the citadel scissor knight might be just another moss knight

[young saffron]

is this the character whos open scissor blocks attack

[cerulean sable]

yeah

[charred pulsar]

https://youtu.be/pFAknD_9U7c?feature=shared 1:45 this?

[cerulean sable]

also the clover shading went on the more darker pallette, very very nice

yeah mr HIEETTOOOO

GOD I LOVE HIS DESIGN SO MUCH

[kindred pewter]

this guy doesn't get any love

we need someone to be a #1 fan of this guy

[cerulean sable]

essentially gives me the same Hermes/Mercury vibe

the problem is he has no name yet 🥴 (if they even have one)

[kindred pewter]

it better not be like a one-time encounter

[cerulean sable]

if it is it better be a boss 😤

[kindred pewter]

it better not be like a moss charger

[half arrow]

I love the details

[cerulean sable]

yeah

really like that they went away with the lime bluish green hue to it

and went with a darker green

[half arrow]

I need SILKSONG NOOOOOW

[cerulean sable]

THIS YEAR

IT HAS TO BE

[half arrow]

YEEEESSS

[cerulean sable]

THIS IS OUR ONLY CHANCE (TO MAKE THIS RIGHT)

[kindred pewter]

the clues just lead up to this year

[half arrow]

one of the things I like the most are the backgrounds

It seems like they have improved a lot compared to Hollow Knight

[half arrow]

YES

[cerulean sable]

oh yeah defo

i mentioned this already earlier

but one of the biggest highlight of god master was junk pit

its one of the few instances of a really detailed BG for me and it really gave you this impression of how large these caverns are

[kindred pewter]

also enemy design in my opinion

[crisp summit]

hollow knight needed simple enemies since the combat is the most basic shit ever

[half arrow]

Just look at this

[half arrow]

Everything in general

[crisp summit]

this game should be massive since they went into it with an idea of how everything should work

[half arrow]

Its simple yes, but perfect

[cerulean sable]

blur is a bit too high but i love the massive view on the pillars supporting the city

[crisp summit]

no switching engines halfway through, art style already decided, lots of code reusable

[cerulean sable]

it reminds me a lot of Blighttown's swamp area,

like going down the swamp, i only realized the wooden platforms above are only supported by the massive pillars and the entire thing is meant to be a sewer

[young saffron]

im having a hype overdose

[half arrow]

It will be massive, in 2019 100 banks and 160 enemies were confirmed, and then the map will be huge taking into account hornet and the distance of the banks

[crisp summit]

that was like the start of development lol

[half arrow]

Yes its increíble

[cerulean sable]

im going to be honest guys

[half arrow]

Of course

[cerulean sable]

didnt they only achieve 160 enemies by that one blogpost?

[crisp summit]

at one point team cherry described their enemy creation process and they said it took like a couple hours from conceptualizing to full implementation

[cerulean sable]

i feel like when the showed the trailer, 150 enemies was more of their target, but not yet realized by then

[half arrow]

Yes

[crisp summit]

160 enemies implemented by the end of 2019

more than hollow knight, almost 5 years ago

obviously some have probably been scrapped but still like

fuck

[half arrow]

Yeah but in 2019

[cerulean sable]

its like when they got interviewed by a guy about the death mechanic before it got released
their reply was "oh we cant show it yet, but trust us, we already have something special set up 😉"

then after that interview they both had a huddle and said "oh shit yeah, what about the death mechanic, we dont have one yet"

[half arrow]

Who knows if they have done more or what

[crisp summit]

theyve probably done more

they can implement a new enemy in hours

[half arrow]

Yep

[nimble radish]

each enemy should have at least a page of lore & ecology

[cerulean sable]

yeah yeah just saying its because of that, im skeptical if 150 enemies was accomplished or it was just their goal by then, and realistically they only had 80-120 enemies by then if you get me

[half arrow]

I LOVE the interview They let you know what they were like.

[cerulean sable]

also the same thing that happened with Glorified Charms

[half arrow]

I think that if it was a goal they have already fulfilled or surpassed it

[crisp summit]

i mean they made all of hollow knight in about two years

and that was without a clear idea of what the game was throughout

[cerulean sable]

back then before Godmaster was out (was called Gods and Glory even, but had to rename due to a mobile game asking them to change it as they were already using Gods and Glory)

they promised Charm Glorification, then when GM released, it wasnt there and their only comment was in a mixer stream where they said they realized how difficult it is to balance and they wanted to be over with it so they can move on to the "Hornet DLC" asap

[crisp summit]

(rest in peace snail village)

[half arrow]

And now they have the money and the time

[crisp summit]

here they've had tons of ideas that they could implement immediately, like most of bone forest

they haven't had to switch engines, no budget limit, and a crazy amount of dev time

[cerulean sable]

yeah yeah

[crisp summit]

though you're probably right that a lot of enemies were still being conceptualized

[half arrow]

And the experience

[crisp summit]

but even if they only had like 120 out of 160

that's a fucking lot

[half arrow]

Yeah

[cerulean sable]

that being said ok, im usually not the type of guy that gets WOWd by the "over 2384720384023 new weapons/enemies" etc because it either ends up being bloat or recolors

granted they said they understand and specifically mentioned wanting to avoid recolors, and Edge does mention them putting higher emphasis on mob combat, so well see

[crisp summit]

yeah i get that, there's only so many ways to make enemies stand out

[lament coyote]

sgf will be the day... for sure...

[cerulean sable]

because in retrospect, everytime i praise HKs combat its mostly because of the bosses, some enemies were nice yeah but its usually just the arena and the bosses

[crisp summit]

mhm

[lament coyote]

if not i swear upon my life i'll be doing immortal light for 10 hours straight

[half arrow]

and they confirmed 100 banks in 2019, that if they have the same distance as in Hollow Knight, the map will be huge, it is also that Hornet needs it xd

[crisp summit]

the idea is supposed to be like

you have the main game that you can complete in like 20-30 hours

and then all the side content you can go and explore which is what they've been mostly focusing on

[lament coyote]

nah

i'd spend longer

[crisp summit]

but i'm afraid that the side content is gonna be super bloated lmao

[nimble radish]

no accounting for skillsue

[crisp summit]

that or the game is going to be more unused content than content

[cerulean sable]

honestly looking forward how theyll implement the AI

[lament coyote]

it'll be one hell of achievement huntdown

[cerulean sable]

that being said i hope they dont over do the duel style enemies

[crisp summit]

you don't want to duel every single beetle?

[cerulean sable]

sometimes having a bunch of "simple" enemies whos only ability is to rush you forward is fine, because they can still provide some sort of gameplay challenge like say, focusing on swarming the player in numbers instead

i mean it more like everyone acting like Moss Knights in terms of how their mechanics are based upon

[half arrow]

I think it will be at least 40 hours

[crisp summit]

sure

[cerulean sable]

i dont mind SS being around 20-30 hours still

[half arrow]

but for me it will be at least 150

[cerulean sable]

if the side content takes longer sure but depending on how they do it, it can feel bloated

quality over quantity after all, at certain points of Elden Ring i legitimately wished they slashed the game even

[crisp summit]

if the game leans closer to an "open world" than a metroidvania i'm afraid that a lot of it is gonna be unrewarding

every open world ends up that way eventually

like, in elden ring you at some point stop caring about exploring because you'll just get new spells you'll never use or some dumb crafting material

[cerulean sable]

i saw this review on ER recently and it kinda sums up my rating to it

[cerulean sable]

yeah

sometimes less is more

[crisp summit]

if the game has 40 zones each one's going to stand out less

[cerulean sable]

i often see Deus Ex MD get praised

the game is only set in Prague

compared to the previous games where you move from city to city as you progress

[lament coyote]

yeah that

[cerulean sable]

but on the flipside its VERY dense to the point you can almost visit 95% of the apartments in that game and all the aboveground/underground areas in it

with you ocassionally finding side quests in them or locations for upgrades

[half arrow]

I think it is a very big Metroidvania, which I love

[crisp summit]

though i think a lot of dev time is gonna get eaten up by the bigger zones and the quests

so probably not zone bloat

[dapper topaz]

I’m a casual player so I’d probably spend 200+ hrs on Silksong

[cerulean sable]

thats fine, in the best of both worlds TC manages to capture both quality and quantity

im just saying as a team them small, its ok to cut and scale stuff down

[crisp summit]

yeah absolutely

[cerulean sable]

but then again the game is around 5-7 years in developement

my hope is they spent stuff refining content instead of just "NEW AREA NEW AREA NEW AREA"

so well see

[crisp summit]

i mean in 2019 they said the game was getting too big and they had ideas for dlcs already

[half arrow]

and the team is talented and has grown compared to Hollow Knight

[crisp summit]

this was the start of development

[cerulean sable]

yeahhh thats why im half excited and worried 🥴
i hope they dont bite more than they chew, crossing fingers on those years of developement

[crisp summit]

i really just want to know what the hell they've been doing

[dapper topaz]

That is the case though

I feel they’re pretty much done with the basic layout of every area and now they’re refining it to match it to HK standards or even better than that

[crisp summit]

i hope it's massive in a good way

[cerulean sable]

yup

[crisp summit]

but like... is that likely?

i dunno

[cerulean sable]

as long as they dont focus on adding content in that it expands the world space i think its fine

like, adding more world space isnt extra content at a certain point

(barren snowfields ehem)

but honestly i feel in terms of content, TC is also focusing in making stuff denser

besides theyre dealing with new stuff like Hornet being able to talk

[crisp summit]

i was just wondering how much dialogue there's gonna be

[dapper topaz]

Putting lore and stuff ig

I hope Silksong has a more mysterious lore than the original

[crisp summit]

it probably won't since there's people to talk to

[half arrow]

Maybe it's a hot take, but Hollow Knight has one of the best maps I've ever seen, and I hope they were able to improve it in silksong compared to Hornet

[dapper topaz]

Actually yeah fair point

[crisp summit]

there's definitely a lot more complex systems

[potent plover]

hoping to actually figure out some of the lore on my own for once in silksong

[cerulean sable]

we havent seen how theyll deal with the dialogue but i feel like TC is gonna add reactions depending on how far youve gotten

like theyve gone so far as to add extra details with Snail Shaman having a different dialogue if you kill the baldur without talking to them
or NPCs having those extra dialogues on certain events (Elderbug going "who the fuck are these clowns" and going "thank fuck those clowns are gone" for TGT)

[young saffron]

I think hollow knights time was perfect

30-40 base, 60-70(?) extra

[cerulean sable]

yeah i dont mind the time too

[half arrow]

I think Team Cherry is the type that doesn't move on to the next job until it's perfected.

[cerulean sable]

i just find people asking 100 hours of (implied to be unique) content to be unrealistic

[crisp summit]

95 is perfectly acceptable

[dapper topaz]

Yeah exactly lol

[cerulean sable]

i mean they can push that far sure but eventually theyll hit diminishing returns, its that or they extend development for additional extra years

[nimble radish]

i don't know how you track hours of content

[cerulean sable]

average 1st playthrough playtime ig

HK is open enough that it varies though

some people finish the game in 15, some in 25

[stiff burrow]

Some in 50 even

[cerulean sable]

its defo gonna take a bit longer because youre gonna be poking your head here and there for your first playthrough

yeah yeah

ive seen people clear the game at 63% with 50 hours

honestly it doesnt matter as long as the game's pacing is good

[half arrow]

I wish that they make something like the godmaster

[dapper topaz]

I mean I had about 97 hrs for 112, and that’s surely a long time

[cerulean sable]

and besides you cant please everyone, for every guy complaining that theres too many times theyre just wandering around, another player is going to find those 30 hours wandering around the best part of the game

[crisp summit]

can't wait for all the negative reviews like "they removed charms, game sucks" and "there's too much reading"

[cerulean sable]

it was TC intention after all that they wanted the game world is something that you could "take your time with"

[cerulean sable]

im not too worried with the reading at least, TC said they know not everyone cares about the lore 🥴

[dapper topaz]

People will always find ways to complain

Like, if you wanted all charms and things again go play HK then lmao

[cerulean sable]

and they said you can skip the dialogue if you dont care that much

hold on let me find it in the magazine

[half arrow]

This is what happens with games that become famous, people start to hate them because yes even if they are masterpieces

[stiff burrow]

And because the more people play a game, the more likely someone who won't like it will play it

[half arrow]

Yeah i heared about that

[cerulean sable]

honestly given TC, i feel like if you ignore all the lore, by the end Hornet will probably have a special dialogue that is essentially "i dont give a fuck who you are or what you do, but youre in my way so i gotta kill you"

[dapper topaz]

On the contrary, I actually want to read more in Silksong

In HK reading sometimes made sense and sometimes it didn’t

But if Silksong has dialogue which completely fits in with the lore under it I’m definitely in

[half arrow]

I think that's actually what happens with lace in the demo xd

[nimble radish]

skipping the story resulting in a different, more confusing ending

[stiff burrow]

That's something I would expect in a Toby Fox game ngl

[cerulean sable]

Cease your prattle and raise your blade
is the polite way of saying
"I dont care, shut the fuck up and fight me"

[nimble radish]

like hornet beats the silkmaster general and has no idea why the zeplins start falling out of the sky

[half arrow]

I will read everything, I will admire the art, I will have silksong for breakfast, I will eat silksong, I will have silksong for dinner

[half arrow]

Yea xd

[cerulean sable]

tbf narrative wise, it still made sense for HK given that 1. its vague enough that its confusing at first 2. you can excuse that the reason the knight goes through all that shit is that its just calling out to the instinct of its purpose

[young saffron]

why does hornet talk fancy? (I mean its way better than normal spoken dialogue but im just wondering lol)

[cerulean sable]

like the knight doesnt know why therye at hallownest, but theyre attracted that they MUST do this job because the were made for it

[half arrow]

https://tenor.com/view/gojo-gojo-satoru-gif-11954464873537233555

[dapper topaz]

Was it even implied that why Hornet is killing enemies in Pharloom tho?

[crisp summit]

pent up anger from waiting for the release date

[dapper topaz]

Good luck with the dinner part

[cerulean sable]

afaik theyre the deep dock workers are essentially in auto pilot

[stiff burrow]

Yeah and also: theoretically the Knight could just leave but Hornet fell all the way down so that's not really an option

[cerulean sable]

theyre close to infected but not mindless

the citadel guys are probably attacking hornet for well, they need to kidnap her and now shes a threat

the ant guys are probably for territorial reasons

[lament coyote]

nah they're just skissued

[half arrow]

I think there is a dialogue in the demo that explains it, but I don't want to spoil it for myself

[cerulean sable]

tbf i trust TC given that the went as far as making the Mantises passive once you beat the Mantis Lords

[half arrow]

Yeah 😎

[lament coyote]

100 probably won't be the case considering there's unlikely to be pantheon related stuff

[dapper topaz]

Ah so it’ll be various reasons instead of something like the infection

That’s cool

[cerulean sable]

so they definitely do understand the world nuisances / justification

hence i have high hopes they have a good excuse to why these enemies are trying to kill you

but it will depend on each group

[dapper topaz]

Mm fair

[cerulean sable]

instead of going for another THEYRE INFECTED blanket excuse for everyone

i mean for stuff like the basic beasts, theyre probably just trying to kill out of territorial reasons

[crisp summit]

steel soul mode supposedly has more gameplay changes this time around so that could could as content if pantheons count

[cerulean sable]

like IRL ants will bite you because, thats what know how to respond to threats

[stiff burrow]

Or to eat you

[half arrow]

We'll see it

[dapper topaz]

That’s super good since it adds to the storyline of the game

it’ll make it feel like stuff is actually happening in the present, instead of everything hidden in the past

[crisp summit]

they could also just not die sometimes

like, you kill an enemy but they're left on the ground unconscious or whatever

[cerulean sable]

they could do it like the palicos in Monster Hunter

once defeated they just burrow in to the ground and fuck off

leaving their stuff behind

[torpid orchid]

Who is Miduel M?

[sinful flare]

we'll never know

[upbeat bear]

chat you gotta trust me

steel ball run gets animated this year

[half arrow]

Yeah, of course....

[cerulean sable]

Steel Gang Soul

[lament coyote]

This is less real than ss getting out

[upbeat bear]

guys you gotta trust me im not on copium

we are gonna get part 7 animated soon

[cerulean sable]

im still looking at this image

i just realized how much the foliage and the rocks has changed

seriously this is not just bandwagon but i gotta admit i did NOT like the original rocks at all

they remind me too much of my childhood days of watching NatGeo documentaries and beaches with rocks like these means youd get several cuts just by walking on them

[opaque sigil]

good thing hornet has a shell

[cerulean sable]

true

also the green hue is a lot more, greenier

newer color haze is a lot more "palatable"

Sorry going through memory lane, wanted to see the differences again (from Mossbag's video)

[torpid orchid]

hollow knight colors are always amazing.

[opaque sigil]

I do like how much bigger they made the lace arena look

[cerulean sable]

oh yeah, but i will miss those strands of silk

my main guess is there was a narrative shift IMO

[opaque sigil]

maybe but those strands are a bit cluttered anyways

[cerulean sable]

yeah that too

either way im starting to grow more on the new colors tbh

my only caveat (and yes i understand this is could be a result of technical constraints) is i really hope they revisit the blur

but yeah overall there is a lot more clarity to it

[opaque sigil]

I doubt that's a matter of technical constraints, seems more like it's a way to make the background look further back

[cerulean sable]

its easy to say "oh the old ones were better because yada yada" but we never know if they were negatively impacting performance or gameplay

[opaque sigil]

hell if you look at the updated lace fight you can see an unblurred pipe that just looks closer to the arena

[cerulean sable]

yeah i noticed

[opaque sigil]

the blur seems like it's primarily a way to communicate depth

[cerulean sable]

yeah

like i said, its easier to judge these screenshots but inb4 on actual gameplay, its not that bad

hell it might actually be better considering they made those changes to begin with but who knows

[opaque sigil]

I don't think it even needs the gameplay argument, though there are certainly potential justifications in that regard