sk-discussion

[cerulean sable]

shes no fucking nonsense, she has no time to entertain playful threats and shell just outright tell you to shut the fuck up

[fossil socket]

REAL

[last spoke]

Run it she says

[fossil socket]

overrated boss difficulty wise

[violet path]

Well she did all the talking whenever in conversation with tk

[wary quarry]

hornet might be me fr

[last spoke]

Tk can't even talk

[fossil socket]

that's not hard tbf

[last spoke]

Ofc she has to talk to it

[fossil socket]

i could out talk the knight even with my severe anxiety

[cerulean sable]

NKG is one of the easiest higher tier bosses just because theres not a lot of randomness or overlap to his attack which what makes the intial hurdle the best, but after that he becomes boring

[fossil socket]

real

[cerulean sable]

he attacks, you counter, he attacks, you counter, he attacks, you counter, he attacks, you counter,

rinse repeat

[elfin roost]

YES

[fossil socket]

literally every pattern is so readable

[elfin roost]

FINALLY

[last spoke]

Gggggs

[elfin roost]

I BeAT HIM

[violet path]

I think i could beat nkg with my eyes clothes

[wary quarry]

the worst part about NKG is that i keep using his strats for normal grimm so i get hurt

[last spoke]

Clothes

[violet path]

And hands tied behind my back

[cerulean sable]

PV is still IMO THE best end game boss because he has a lot of attacks that overlap that you have to think about saving your shade dash, when to only jump, when to stall mid air, etc

[fossil socket]

real

[violet path]

Pv is fun but absrad works better for a multitude of reasons imo

[fossil socket]

grimm is harder purely because who tf practises him

[cerulean sable]

OH YEAH

[last spoke]

Pv is too ez

[fossil socket]

pv is super fucky wucky

he's arguably super slow it's just learning is a painnnnnnnn

[last spoke]

Like I beat it 2nd try

[elfin roost]

pure vessel?

[cerulean sable]

i remember perfecting NKG then getting mobbed by TMG because i kept prejumping after every attack and end up realizing this fucker is like 40% slower

[fossil socket]

absrad is super pattern based as well but the speed keeps it fun and the randomness is at least more of an impact when that fast

[violet path]

The very idea of her existence at this literal “peak of the game” and the hardest pantheon, with that being even further emphasized with how you climb throughout the battle

[last spoke]

pv works

[fossil socket]

nkg is very maneuvrable

[elfin roost]

also

[violet path]

Any vanilla boss is very maneuverable

[wary quarry]

i fumbled way too much on TMG's bats attack thinking he was NKG

[elfin roost]

for the charms i was using to beat nkg

[last spoke]

same

[elfin roost]

were

shaman stone

[fossil socket]

i meant as in he's super easy to manipulate

[cerulean sable]

its just a shame PV, IMO the LITERAL BEST BOSS IN THE GAME has to be accessed by like Pantheon 4, which most casual streamers unfortunately wont put the effort of going to

[elfin roost]

quick slash

[fossil socket]

absrad feels more random

[cerulean sable]

PV sweeps NKG so hard its not even funny

[elfin roost]

long nail

[last spoke]

Wowie

[silk zodiac]

zowie

[fossil socket]

PV is the true final boss imo

[fossil socket]

absrad is obviously harder

[elfin roost]

should i get unbreakable herat?

[fossil socket]

but pv feels like the culmination of godhome to me

[wary quarry]

strength first

[elfin roost]

*heart

i have that

[violet path]

Couldnt disagree more

[wary quarry]

oh ok go heart then

[elfin roost]

what should i grind for it?

[violet path]

Absrads arena is literally the top of godhome

[fossil socket]

tbh the entire time in hollow knight i was much more fascinated in the failed attempt of the PV to fight radiance than radiance itself

[silk zodiac]

like, for geo?

[wary quarry]

colloseum of fools if you can do that consistent

[elfin roost]

mhm

[last spoke]

Do Colo 2

[elfin roost]

i can do that ez

[coarse leaf]

if radiance didnt exist, i would be fine with pv being the final thing in godhome

[last spoke]

Colo 3 is too long

[wary quarry]

colo 2 yes

[violet path]

Colo 2 makes more molah yes

[silk zodiac]

this, well you can't grind really relics but sell them and if all else fails farm city of tears loop

[last spoke]

I think it makes less but it's way quicker

[wary quarry]

colo 3 is too icky wicky

[fossil socket]

arguably PV could have been just as hype at the top of godhome too

kind of wish he got more for some reason

[last spoke]

Pv needed to be harder

[wary quarry]

Pv needed more speed

[fossil socket]

i think just more attacks

[last spoke]

And quadruple damage

[fossil socket]

nah cheap stuff doesn't feel right

[last spoke]

Attacks that are faster yeah

[fossil socket]

more damage or more speed would have just felt cheap

another attack to add a layer of variance to a fight

[last spoke]

But it's still ez

[fossil socket]

so that movement isn't so stilted against him

[cerulean sable]

this is actually my issue with how HK's ending system is done that i hope the change it entirely for Silksong

it sucks that the hardest fight in a casual run is goddamn Watcher Knights and it feels like HK's casual ending run has like a super wobbly boss difficulty spike progression

like early on it peaks on Mantis Lords and Soul Master, nosedives with Dung Def and Uumuu (with other side bosses sprinkled inbetween) then becomes hard again for WK, only for it to nosedive with THK because they cant allow him to just be a nuisance against the Radiance

[wary quarry]

i feel like maybe some shade attacks from him would be cool but idk if the lore can do that

[fossil socket]

yeah but when fighting absrad you have to think so much about positioning to avoid all possibilities, in PV i feel like i stand still

[last spoke]

fr

[violet path]

Idk matve its just me but absrad really does strike me as much more of a final boss, plus it makes much more sense for the spectacle and the lore

[fossil socket]

something like the homing absrad has would make it feel so much more interactive

[elfin roost]

what charms should i use for cof 2

[last spoke]

He needs more speed

[wary quarry]

strength, MoP, quick slash, usual stuff probably

[fossil socket]

imo watcher knights and mantis lords weren't that crazy, just very rng heavy, kind of feels similar to the markoth hate that in actually is just mostly due to lack of attempts

[violet path]

Normal battle charms, sstone, strength, qs, and sbody + a one notch

Or twister instead of the 2 one notches

[last spoke]

Rng is crazy

[fossil socket]

despite all the shit i give nkg as a boss he's a very interactive fight

[last spoke]

Mantis lords???

[fossil socket]

and i wish some of the later bosses in god home had more of that

[violet path]

The manti are cool

[cerulean sable]

overall HK's boss design always shined on the post game DLC

and i think it just shows their experience at this point

[violet path]

It shines everywhere imo

[last spoke]

We've come to the conclusion that hk bad omg

[fossil socket]

we don't talk about hive knight tho

[cerulean sable]

literally every DLC boss except flying Nosk I think can be argued to be the peak of the entire series

[elfin roost]

primal aspids are harder to beat then false knigh

[wary quarry]

i also think so many bosses are just reskins kinda, hive knight dashes and jump slashes, soul warrior does the same, hornet does but shes got other attacks, etc

[elfin roost]

fight me

[fossil socket]

dung defender is a pretty hype fight if you don't know about DD

[fossil socket]

real

[violet path]

Flying nosk is pretty cool in concept though

[cerulean sable]

when i compare base game vs DLC, base game has like a couple of good bosses

[last spoke]

False knight is like an early game boss so that's not a crazy thing to say

[fossil socket]

i infinite cycled him on accident my second run through and got really confused

[silk zodiac]

flying nosk was cool for design concept not cool as a fight imo at all

[cerulean sable]

not counting the refights ofc

[wary quarry]

flying nosk has ass hitbox

[fossil socket]

tbh the dlc bosses that i can think of aren't that amazing

[silk zodiac]

flying nosk is just ass

[fossil socket]

i don't like sly or the oro and mato brothers as a fight, i feel like they needed more

[last spoke]

Sob pv sheo ???????

[violet path]

Pk? Nkg? Absrad? Nailmasters?

[wary quarry]

sheo fight i really enjoyed

[fossil socket]

i preferred the peak of the hollow knight when first fighting him

[fiery burrow]

PK bossfight

[fossil socket]

first playthrough lore wise + attack wise it just felt like more of a spectacle to play along to

[last spoke]

White defender is dlc right

[violet path]

Thk isnt even meant to be a challenge???

[silk zodiac]

sly was great wdym

[fossil socket]

yes, hidden dreams

[fiery burrow]

as is grey prince zote

[wary quarry]

yes, and gpz

[violet path]

Its a gateway into the actual final boss 😭

[last spoke]

They're peak

[fossil socket]

i didn't like sly, personal opinions go hard

[wary quarry]

i said it first haha

[last spoke]

Sly bad tbh

[fossil socket]

grey prince zote isn't that hard and is also an amazing fight, fight me

[violet path]

Sly requires a different style of fighting which i find interesting and engaging

[fiery burrow]

I blame the internet

[last spoke]

It says star said it first for me

[violet path]

Gpz is so free lmao

[fossil socket]

i'm a super hard nail spam kind of guy

[last spoke]

Also you're new here tbh imo

[fiery burrow]

shrue

[fossil socket]

"muh grey prince zote rng" shut the fuck up bitch ass fucker gpz is easy

[silk zodiac]

gpz is fine not fun under stress of a hard p5 run

[violet path]

For me new guys is first

[wary quarry]

it says i said it first for me thats weird, who has worse internet

[last spoke]

Why do people always add fight me to the most coldest takes

[violet path]

Imagine struggling against someones fanfic 😭

[fiery burrow]

he's surrounded by 2 easy bosses dawg 😭

[violet path]

Hollow knight is a game fight me

[fossil socket]

because the masses have colder takes and I GO HARD

[violet path]

What bosses surround him again?

[silk zodiac]

true but i'm talking stress of the entire run lmao

[fiery burrow]

Markoth and failed champion

[violet path]

Honestly the only hard vanilla fight is markoth

[fossil socket]

false

[wary quarry]

galien and uumuu in p3

[fossil socket]

markoth ain't that hard

[last spoke]

It wasn't in the base game

[wary quarry]

ok bro

[uncut citrus]

i accidentally divided by 0

[fiery burrow]

markoth is only bad radiant

[fossil socket]

uumuu in godhome is confusing as fuck

[violet path]

Hes the hardest rad boss fight me

[last spoke]

It's not hard tho

[fossil socket]

real

[fiery burrow]

unless you are doing r5 he's free

[silk zodiac]

lame as fuck*

[fossil socket]

he's not the hardest

but he's fucked up bruh

[opaque sigil]

you can brute force markoth so easy

[fossil socket]

definitely the boss of all time that's not the most suitable to radiant, other than maybe collector pre patch

[wary quarry]

if dream shield was as good as markoth's, itd be decent

[violet path]

Dream shield coulve been so interesting man

[fossil socket]

markoth is also just a huge reaction time check i think

man tbh a lot of the charms could have been a hell of a lot more interesting

[wary quarry]

fr i like the idea of having two when youre low hp was a miss, like markoth has and is

[violet path]

I feel like out of all the charms shield shouldve been one that was skill based

[fiery burrow]

they are just so outclassed by like strength, shaman stone, steady body, and more

[fossil socket]

it makes me super spammed that all summon charms are only really viable when spammed en masse

[last spoke]

It's fun to be bad in hk

[fiery burrow]

Sharp shadow, spell twister

[fossil socket]

tbh ever since i discovered shaman stone, strength and twisting soul i haven't switched

[last spoke]

holy mid

[violet path]

I know you did not just say sharp shadow

[wary quarry]

im pretending you did NOT say steady body, but i'll agree on the others

[fossil socket]

i loved sharp shadow before i found out it increases dash distance

[fiery burrow]

steady body is an overall great damage increase for 1 charm notch and also great QoL

[fossil socket]

PoP has never been more P

[wary quarry]

wait how can it be good for damage

[fiery burrow]

It skips a lot of walking which isn't much by it's own but it adds up a LOOOOT

[fossil socket]

damage increase? maybe, QoL? idk

[silk zodiac]

they did and they're so real for that

[fossil socket]

less time on attacks afaik

[violet path]

Dps

[marsh ibex]

increases dps especially when paired with quick slash

[violet path]

Ss is the most overated charm in the game

[fossil socket]

quick slash is fr up there with unbreakable strength

[wary quarry]

i havent used steady body with quick slash so i might use it

[last spoke]

Silksong is so overrated omg

[fossil socket]

it's so fucking good on nail builds

[fiery burrow]

which ss

[fossil socket]

sussy silly guys

[fiery burrow]

Did you mean spore shroom, sharp shadow, or steady body?

[wary quarry]

guys best charm is glowing womb

[silk zodiac]

super silk

[fossil socket]

SPORE SHROOM GOATED

[last spoke]

S-steady
S-body

[fossil socket]

FUNNY GO HARD

[fiery burrow]

spore shroom is mid because I don't take damage

[wary quarry]

fr so is thorns of agony

[last spoke]

Stalwart shell is the greatest charm ever then

[fossil socket]

wrong

incorrent, falsehoods inbound

[last spoke]

nuh uh

[fiery burrow]

Thorns of agony just decreases i frames and control making you get hit more it's terrible

[wary quarry]

stalwart shell decent for watcher knights

[silk zodiac]

what is the worst charm in all of hk

[last spoke]

Strength

[violet path]

Ss is a great charm, ss however is a mediocre charm that is not good. Both ss and ss are really bad charms with only one niche use in the anyrad fights

[fossil socket]

grimmchild because it betrayed me and didn't murder the daddy

[wary quarry]

it decreases i frames? 😨

[silk zodiac]

true

[fiery burrow]

iirc yeah

[silk zodiac]

should've trained it better imo

[wary quarry]

grimmchild hates it when you heal when a boss is staggered, hes out to get you

[fossil socket]

thorns of agony is a whole heap of bad execution that makes a great idea very mid

[violet path]

The s tier charms imo are: sstone, strength, sbody, and quickslash

Qs is like ss tier though its not even comparable

[fossil socket]

sbody debatable but everything else is literally impossible to not equip

[wary quarry]

wayward compass

[violet path]

Scuse me?

Sbody is literally amazing especially for a one notch

[fossil socket]

i'm sorry but i like to use that overcharged slot for something that's cracked

radiant only kinda gameplay

[last spoke]

But

[wary quarry]

wayward compass?

[silk zodiac]

summoning salt posted an hour ago bye chat

[fossil socket]

wayward compass is also only 1...

[wary quarry]

yes but its best charm

[violet path]

Except for gathering swarm

[fossil socket]

lemme load up hk to see my charm loadout

[violet path]

I havent seen “compass op” joke in so long i forgot its not funny anymore

[wary quarry]

like imagine when you look at a map and this compass whispers to you "yo youre here"

[wary quarry]

neither have i so i thought id say it because i could

[violet path]

Why are we discussing a mid game anyways

[violet path]

Reasonable

[fossil socket]

okay but it's even more sick to just know where you are because you got the sauce

[wary quarry]

defenders crest

[fossil socket]

tbh

strength, qs, sstone and seater is the strat

spell twister is also cracked

[violet path]

I have 360 hours on hk and i still need compass

[fossil socket]

skill issue

[wary quarry]

i still need compass for deepnest

[violet path]

Twister would be outmatched by sbody even if it was 2 notches

Also is joker typing or am i insane

[fossil socket]

you're insane

[wary quarry]

you are very insane

[fossil socket]

also sbody crutch, makes you play differently therefore charm binding = different

true gamers play with the intention of going hard mode

[wary quarry]

mark of pride is kinda crutch too

[violet path]

Mop is overrated too

[fossil socket]

i used to play MoP and long nail

[last spoke]

damn this joker fella reminds me of this ren guy

[violet path]

Its great but for 3 notches jeez

[fossil socket]

definition of crutch, just learn to position yourself

[violet path]

Just play better

HE IS TYPING I SAW IT I SWEAR

[fossil socket]

literally anything that makes it "easier" to hit something is just a crutch

[last spoke]

What's wrong with that

[fossil socket]

just hit it anyway

[wary quarry]

just d-dark fr

[violet path]

Not necessarily but mop just bad

[fossil socket]

crutches make it easier to walk therefore the definition of crutch in vidjyagaming is to make something easier

but we walk hard frfr, so just don't use crutches

[wary quarry]

dashing is crutch

[fossil socket]

no because dashing allows different playstyles and options

[last spoke]

So does

[fossil socket]

literally all MoP does is make you play the exact same but at a safer distance

[violet path]

Except in some scenarios getting closer will mean you get hit

[fossil socket]

just don't get hit

[wary quarry]

monarch wings crutch just shade skip

[last spoke]

You jus talkin huh

[fossil socket]

factual

[violet path]

It opens up much more opportunities to deal dmg, just not worth the 3 notches against other 3 notch charms

[fossil socket]

what opportunities though

[violet path]

You cant ss on ss though

[wary quarry]

upgraded nail is crutch just do more damage

[fossil socket]

when are you in a situation where MoP actually makes a difference

[violet path]

Many

[fossil socket]

if you react fast enough and shade dash out it's never a problem to begin with, and if we're talking god home you'll have shad dash

in vanilla sure it's a good option but that changes the playing field

[last spoke]

People play differently smgakkwvejakjsd

[fossil socket]

smh it's the same playstyle

just MoP is 3 notches for the same thing just easier

[wary quarry]

guys i think the radiance's charmset is all crutches, like, a big death beam, spears out the ground? seems like a crutch tbh

[fossil socket]

absrad really is fully of crutches though

like being faster is just the same thing but fast

[violet path]

Just dont use mop use qs strength sbody and sstone

[fossil socket]

real

[wary quarry]

blud just obtained quick slash

[fossil socket]

just not sbody

absrad really be using the mythical quick spell charm

[violet path]

Youre just bad at the game if you cant use sbody

It literally just increases your control and fps

[fossil socket]

you're just playing with charm bindings off

[wary quarry]

absrad so stupid if she just d-darked it'd be over for us

[cobalt sigil]

no % is locked behind wings

[marsh ibex]

@uncut citrus

[violet path]

Wings is a percent

[violet path]

I KNEW YOU WERE Typingn

[cobalt sigil]

besides for wings itself but like yk

[fossil socket]

guys no percent is locked by defender's crest "defender's crest percent is locked by defender's crest"

[uncut citrus]

is this relevant to me becaue i use 🥹

[violet path]

🥹

[marsh ibex]

Yes

[violet path]

Is it an adoring or sad face

I cant tell

[wary quarry]

adoring

[cobalt sigil]

but like what o mean is wings aren’t needed for anything that’s a %

[cobalt sigil]

like white palace can be done wingless

[fossil socket]

yeah exactly

so just do the game without wings

if you're not playing the hardest difficulty possible are you really playing

[uncut citrus]

its one of the faces of all time for sure

[fossil socket]

like we go hard on the all bindings p5 completionists

but we'd go even harder on 112% godhome ending ab p5 wingless route

[wary quarry]

all bindings p5 hitless old nail vengeful spirit desolate dive howling wraiths

[fossil socket]

you must be able to skip one of those spells

[wary quarry]

wraiths

[fossil socket]

if not all

vengeful spirit can be skipped on access to greenpath at least

[violet path]

Damn it all if were discussing abt hk can we go to hk discussion

[fossil socket]

desolate dive idk because of all the fucked floor panels

what is silksong but hollow knight without the release

[wary quarry]

we are discussing silksong

[fossil socket]

i bet in silksong we'll get DD 2.0 this time with more i-frames and an even more gigantic hitbox

[wary quarry]

the shitting shaw

[fossil socket]

yet it'll still be less hype than abyss shriek

[cerulean sable]

i honestly dont like descending

it feels like a cheap get out of jail card

[violet path]

Really????

[cerulean sable]

hell i think they can do away with iframe abilities and just make Hornet rely on movement to dodge instead

[violet path]

Thats honestly no offense taco the worst take ive ever heard but to each their own

Now thats more like it

Honestly they should just remove abilities altogether

[cerulean sable]

on its own descending is decent

[violet path]

And make hornet rely on punching the enemies to death

[cerulean sable]

i just dont like the current application of it being an easy way to get out of attacks

which is why the nerf was warranted

[violet path]

Maybe in easier bosses but in harder bosses it feels really good to use well

Plus theres the soul cost to consider

[cerulean sable]

it might but imo it should be a lot higher risk to use which is why im hoping down spell is going to be a parry of some sort

[violet path]

And also in radiant it makes the whole experience feel much more fair

[merry bridge]

as broken as ddark is I am not agreeing with this take simply because it would make the absrad fight painful

[wary quarry]

i feel like hornet is agile enough to not need a ddark clone

[cerulean sable]

yeah

[wary quarry]

we have parry ability in it anyway iirc

[violet path]

I do think some form of iframes should exist though, having ONLY movement can make dodging attacks feel a little frustrating or slow at times

Also hitting skilled iframes well is really satisfying

And fun

[fossil socket]

real

[violet path]

When was ddark even nerfed

[cerulean sable]

around Godmaster

or Lifeblood i think

[violet path]

Oh ok i dont think i played then

[merry bridge]

they mustve failed then cause ddark iframes are still as good as ever

[cerulean sable]

before you could literally spam it as much as you want and you were invulnerable the entire time

[fossil socket]

i just think the literal opposite, i prefer movement and positioning so much more over i frame usage

[violet path]

Ya it probably was broken then if it was even more powerful than it is now

[silver laurel]

Just kidding there's orangutan

🦧

[cerulean sable]

what they changed was that, consecutive ddives no longer overlap in iframes

[violet path]

Ya that makes sense

[cerulean sable]

so if you chain it, the 2nd one will not have iframes until you are going down to the ground

[violet path]

Ddark is satisfying for its strategic use, spamming it seems lame

[cerulean sable]

i dont mind iframes to some extent

i just dont like it to be abusable

being able to parry a few attacks here and there is nice

and it does give a very rewarding feeling

[violet path]

Iframes are very satisfying to use in combination with movement

[fossil socket]

balancing i-frames in a conditional situation is nice

[uncut citrus]

arnt you a professional methaphetamine abuser tho?

[cerulean sable]

there just has to be a way where it doesnt overtake the entire combat system

[violet path]

Id be fine with parrying having a stronger role in ss too, its not very utilized in hk but we see hornet do it against us a lot

[fossil socket]

idk i always think back to smash and its mechanics

[merry bridge]

parrying is risky though so you need to factor in that one is naturally gonna pick the safer option

[fossil socket]

unless it's just objectively worse

then it's just a matter of time and skill

[merry bridge]

ddarking isnt worse then parrying

[fossil socket]

no i know

[wary quarry]

parries require the enemy hitting you while in the stance so maybe stay in the stance for like 1.5 seconds if nothing?

[cerulean sable]

as long as parrying isnt spammable its fine

[fossil socket]

but i mean generally, if you were to make the other options better even if less safe people will use them

[opaque sigil]

which it isn't

[fossil socket]

parrying was underdeveloped in hk imo

had a lot of potential

[cerulean sable]

the slash parry in HK was more like "oh hey lets add this cool thing" rather than actual mechanic they fleshed out

[opaque sigil]

parrying in hk is barely a system and way too demanding in terms of timing to be emphasized or expected

ss has that as well but it also has a parry ability

[merry bridge]

ddark can be spammable but there are much more effective strats when fighting

[fossil socket]

against maybe pv and pv alone i end up parrying

[opaque sigil]

pv specifically has some very parryable attacks

large telegraphed nail swings

[fossil socket]

massive nail hitbox go brr

[violet path]

I think it should have a role similar to ddash in hk, you can parry an enemy then pass through them or bounce off them, and then it has a short cooldown

[fossil socket]

if literally everything in HK was parryable it would be a ridiculously easy game but also very hype at the same time

always loved BOTW parrying even if it's dogshit easy

just feels satisfying to parry everything

[opaque sigil]

well botw parrying has the issue of also not really being worth doing since flurry rushing is better

[fossil socket]

well yeah

but nuking an opponent is obviously better than mailing them a pipe bomb

[cerulean sable]

just to be sure were talking about this parry

https://youtube.com/clip/UgkxsVA6gmbqpIyMkfDZbwpNZHvEfuwNK9Nx?si=oF8j-v8zIC7PtKCn

[fossil socket]

in SS yeah

[cerulean sable]

i honestly hope its going to be soft integrated as a skill

[opaque sigil]

it really doesn't have any mechanical heritage from hk parrying

[violet path]

Wtf the thing i said is literally in the game??

[cerulean sable]

oh

yeah

[fossil socket]

i have positives and negatives about SS parrying but i trust it'll be implemented well enough to not be a get out of jail free card

[cerulean sable]

it is

[violet path]

Awesome

[cerulean sable]

she does it again in another screenshot in the edge magazine iirc

[fossil socket]

i've always hated smash parrying because it feels like a cop out even if it's objectively good in some situations

[violet path]

I agree it should take skill but be something that you can master and do consistently

[opaque sigil]

simply by virtue of costing a resource it's already less of a get out of jail free card than shade cloak

[violet path]

Sorta like pogoing mixed with perfect ddashes

[fossil socket]

just hoping fighting against NPCs rather than players might make it seem a lot more enticing

[fossil socket]

shade cloak has cool down and is also very position and situation based though

[cerulean sable]

honestly i see the parry more in parallel with ddark than shadecloak

[fossil socket]

and to finish it off with a counterattack isn't as simple

[violet path]

Ngl it kinda looks like theyre making it something like you press the button then have a long period of time to wait for an attack, i dont really like that id rather it be more more timing based but rewarding

[opaque sigil]

shade cloak cooldown is not very long and it's incredibly generous for avoiding attacks from basically any position and it requires very little planning to have ready all around

[fossil socket]

true

[violet path]

I think its the best of both worlds if they do it right

[fossil socket]

i still like shade cloak though, just for the fact that i like reaction based checks

imo shade cloak should have been how dashes always worked, and the entire game could have been built around that

[cerulean sable]

nah i think its going to be a timing thing, its gonna cost silks and its gonna make you stationary for like a couple of seconds

[violet path]

Good timing and movement = rewards i frames and danage

[opaque sigil]

it is I'm just saying that shade cloak is way more of a brain off "dodge this attack now" button

[cerulean sable]

yeah yeah fair

[violet path]

Oo right forgot abt the silk system true

[wary quarry]

spaghetti attack will go so hard

[violet path]

Not sure how i feel abt the stationary part feel like i prefer more dynamic combat and timings

[cerulean sable]

i dont think Hornet is going to have an integrated iframe ability like ddash again

[fossil socket]

tbh i'd liked to have seen more of a development of hk parrying

[violet path]

I think itll be more skillful as opposed to magic iframes because void

[opaque sigil]

she has something that looks like it but it costs silk

[fossil socket]

maybe parrying an attack could still leave your hitbox intact idk, would incentivise it more

[violet path]

Im fine the way it is

[opaque sigil]

free iframes kinda boring in general

[cerulean sable]

yeah that was more of an ability

[fossil socket]

i don't know, it just feels like the entire game rewards you for not parrying

[violet path]

Right but ddark isnt free in hard bosses

[cerulean sable]

actually

what if Silk spear is no longre the thing we saw in the demo

[violet path]

It costs soul and if you do it wrong you sell the whole boss

[opaque sigil]

hk doesn't reward you for parrying because it's not really intended methodology it's just a thing that you can do if you're in a bad position

[violet path]

Because parrying has very little place in hks combat

[fossil socket]

and i sort of wish it had more

that's what i'm saying, it'd be very cool if your nail had more impact

[cerulean sable]

and that IS the new Silkspear

but probably not

[opaque sigil]

doubt it

[violet path]

Hks combat is more methodical, setting up your positioning and timings well

[cerulean sable]

more likely just another ability

[rustic ore]

seems like the "silkspear" you're talking about gives iframes

[opaque sigil]

that room looks built for it so I imagine it's acquired around there

[fossil socket]

i think expanding parry usage in HK would add on to this system though rather than take away from it

[lone crown]

I think of this as a shade cloak 2 and might also be used for the last judge flame rings

[violet path]

Anyways ive been trying to avoid tooo many ss spoilers so im probably gonna head oht now cya cha

[opaque sigil]

nah

[fossil socket]

you'd have to consider how you could utilise a parry as well as leave options for movement

[opaque sigil]

game wouldn't have attacks that you need silk to avoid that would be insane

and the flame rings have seams

[lone crown]

That dash uses silk?

[opaque sigil]

yes

[lone crown]

How do you know

[opaque sigil]

because it was in a trailer

[lone crown]

Was there a HUD in the footage

[opaque sigil]

yes

[lone crown]

Oop

[lone crown]

Listen I swear I remember some scenes not having any

Or I’m going crazy

[opaque sigil]

they all had hud

[lone crown]

Proof

[opaque sigil]

https://youtu.be/JSfuFlhsxZY?t=30

[lone crown]

Alright my guy you didn’t have to send the entire trailer

[opaque sigil]

it's timestamped

[wary quarry]

I've just realised silksong is being discussed in the silksong discussion, this is mind blowing

[lone crown]

But yeah you’re right with the seams

[woven crater]

so like

[lone crown]

And the dash

[woven crater]

how much longar

My human form is combusting

[opaque sigil]

the flame rings are also kind of too close together for a shade cloak analogue to even make sense

[lone crown]

Would also explain hornet being mid-air where she is

[lone crown]

In my mind I would imagine the rings traveling at a speed of slow -> fast -> slow

Meaning a cycle of dashing, moving back, dashing again

But the seams is much better

[cerulean sable]

honestly say hypothetically, your dash/attack ability required silk, that means you are expected to hold x amount of silk just to dodge an attack like its gated

it would be an interesting design choice but unlikely because this is going to be a standard ability you can swap out and it would be dumb to soft require you to carry a specific ability for a boss

BUT, it is possible if this category of ability has a similar property with each other, for example the down spell abilities would be all defensive etc

that being said, judging from the trailer i feel like Hornet is not going to have the same up - neutral - down + spell ability shit like the knight did

rather shes just going to get one ability at a time, period

[uncut citrus]

it would also make it annoying to move around the map if you cant just dash whenever

[outer temple]

https://tenor.com/view/cat-jam-cat-jam-head-bounce-kitty-gif-17946989

that song

[cerulean sable]

i mean the silk ability

[uncut citrus]

oh right

[grim forge]

wombat brainsplosion gif

[carmine island]

Isn’t there the silk dash

[uncut citrus]

Annie stop being Sonia (not the french one)

[grim forge]

how am i being sonia

i am allowed to like bocchi the rock aswell

[uncut citrus]

your pfp

its that specific character

[grim forge]

https://tenor.com/view/hiroi-kikuri-hiroi-drinking-sake-bocchi-the-rock-gif-10481455104251645191

[uncut citrus]

yea

exactly

[grim forge]

she just like me

[carmine island]

Because drinking

Is sad

[cerulean sable]

i am not talking about the regular abilities

i literally mean her spell equivalent

her skills

[carmine island]

Silk spells

Soul is magic tho right

[cerulean sable]

these are skills

[carmine island]

Oh yeah

[indigo nymph]

skill issues

[slate wagon]

late but, assuming they go with this, would grapple be a natural ability or equipped?

[cerulean sable]

the unlockable movement abilities like sprint/wall climb/etc i dont doubt are going to stick to her 24/7 once she gets them

[cerulean sable]

i feel like its going to be a cdash equivalent

so integrated? but costs Silk

something like that looks too major as a movement ability and can be used to gate access to certain areas

[inland ravine]

yo everyone

[outer temple]

do we know if its one skill per crest? or can you switch the skill

[surreal remnant]

hi

[slate wagon]

can't wait for all the accidental sequence breaks because of how much hornet can move around

[cerulean sable]

you swap it out

[surreal remnant]

HIYA GWNJ

[inland ravine]

IROH

[cerulean sable]

i think its on the top category

[surreal remnant]

tc gonna have to work overtime to fix all the sequence breaks

[outer temple]

thats nice but I wish you could have multiplw skills at once I think it would be cooler

[cerulean sable]

which is what were still unsure

[outer temple]

oh dam thats cool

[cerulean sable]

is hornet going to only have 1 skill but interchangeable now? instead of the same setup the knight has?

[surreal remnant]

this whole server getting muted the second silksong comes out

[cerulean sable]

honestly i wouldnt mind if you can only carry one skill

[surreal remnant]

plus any affiliated servers

[cerulean sable]

theres just so many combat abilities/tools that carrying 3 skills at a time can be a bit overkill

[surreal remnant]

gonna no life it till i beat the game, then come back and see what y’all had been up to

[outer temple]

maybe better crests will have multiple skill slots like 2 eyes instead of one in the middle of the head for example

[surreal remnant]

but that’ll be in 2124 when the game actually comes out

[slate wagon]

I think it'd fit better, if hornet is all about her combat, then having less special flashy moves would fit better with it
especially since crests, it seems like TC is really emphasizing just normal combat over spells

[cerulean sable]

on top of crests changing your attacks, you have skills, on top of skills you have active tools, then on top of active tools you have passive ones and thats not accounting for what your regular moveset unlockables would add

yeah

just having those tons of options is too much

so restricting it to 1 skill is probably for the best

[surreal remnant]

wonder how long it’ll take for the community to decide on a meta

[outer temple]

and hollow knight has increase your health by 2:)

[cerulean sable]

1 crest, 1 skill, 3 tools + your natural moveset

[surreal remnant]

my bet is 17 seconds after the game comes out

[cerulean sable]

maybe

[slate wagon]

just let her change her skill on the fly

[outer temple]

when you put it that way it sounds noice

[cerulean sable]

my only issue with it is input overload

so having 1 skill isnt that bad in the long run

[outer temple]

thats true imagine how hard it would be on controller

[tawdry valley]

No, I double down.

[outer temple]

add christmas lights around the hat?

[surreal remnant]

two hats

[tawdry valley]

#hk-discussion message

[surreal remnant]

now i need to make a iroh pfp with a santa hat

[tawdry valley]

Peppermint tea goes hard

[cerulean sable]

well its not going to be that hard i guess

down skill
up skill
neutral skill

just on top of that you have

regular moveset like sprint/sprint stab/sprint jump
pogo
down tool
up tool
neutral tool
cdash equiv (probably grappling)
wtv replaces the dreamnail button

i guess naturally youre going to muscle memorize these buttons anyway

[surreal remnant]

but i suck at art, any artists wanna make me an iroh santa hat pfp?

[slate wagon]

I think at most there would be two tool buttons

[tawdry valley]

They might be based on context.

[cerulean sable]

but its not just about input amount, its also for the sake of balancing

[tawdry valley]

Like the sprint button being useless in air

[cerulean sable]

sprint button dashes midair though

[slate wagon]

I mean she still dashes

[tawdry valley]

Yeah exactly

[cerulean sable]

yeah yeah

[surreal remnant]

sounds like way too many for my brain to comprehend

probably gonna use the default combat set

[cerulean sable]

i am not arguing input complexity entirely, like abilities are context based yeah but my main crux really boils down to balancing

[outer temple]

that also makes me realise if you could equip multiple skills it would probably be confusing to remember which you changed to up and which you changed to down or something

[slate wagon]

also hornet's midair dash is affected by gravity??? in my 2d game????

[cerulean sable]

so i think 1 skill and 3 tools is good enough

[silver oak]

omg ttacco

[unkempt agate]

Pros and cons of games in which the only limitation is people's imagination

Pros: you can make anything
Cons: you can make anything

[silver oak]

I'm awake this time

[cerulean sable]

good shit

[tawdry valley]

The crests all apply to the entire moveset. So I guess the idea is that if one set move is strong, the rest of it is weaker or meant to synergize with that move

[surreal remnant]

i feel like a necromancer would be great at forceful interviews

[inland ravine]

hi necro

[silver oak]

wdym by skill

[quartz cave]

Hi necro

[surreal remnant]

Hiya necro

[quartz cave]

Have you by any chance uh

[tawdry valley]

That being said, TC has been kinda horrible with game balance

[cerulean sable]

like its ok to give players a lot of options with customization, just dont give them too much on the same time etc

[quartz cave]

Been necroing

[outer temple]

another thing I wish is I wish there was a way to recharge red tools without sitting at a bench

[slate wagon]

that'd be a bit op no?

[cerulean sable]

eh red tools are fine as it is i guess, theyre not meant to be spammable

[outer temple]

like maybe normal enimies drop ammo

[surreal remnant]

wait, if someone’s heart stops, and i revive them with cpr, i am technically a necromancer

[mossy lava]

Hm

[cerulean sable]

theyre there to cover up weaknesses or certain situation, i mean

the right tool for the right job eh?

[rocky imp]

what are red tools, did i miss silksong news

[quartz cave]

Oh no

[outer temple]

oh my god

[quartz cave]

NOOOOOOOOOO

[surreal remnant]

time to test the theory

[cerulean sable]

old information

[quartz cave]

ARE WE DISCUSSING SILKSONG??????

[surreal remnant]

any volunteers?

[quartz cave]

😭

[cerulean sable]

yeah and wed prefer if its not derailed right now

thanks

[surreal remnant]

fine i’ll sleep y’all talk ss

[silver oak]

because tools only refresh at benches I bet we'll be seeing less of the long walk backs that we occasionally saw in HK

[outer temple]

guess so but Im hoping its much more of a move you have instead of something like a disposable item

[cerulean sable]

eh i actually think Benches will be a bit more scarc this time

[rocky imp]

boss runs were nothing in hk

[cerulean sable]

it wont matter though because Hornet's moveset seems like its really made for long range traversals

[slate wagon]

also, do y'all think the other colors are strict categories or kinda whatever
like yellow is all navigation, blue is all buffs, etc or like a mix

[silver oak]

that's true

Ari talking about zooming through the map or whatever

[cerulean sable]

i dont really mind it though, it gives benches this sense of scarcity, as long as theyre not too far off the boss arenas, theyre fine, but thats not going to be an issue as long as the traversal itself is fun

[stoic haven]

silksong? on my silksong board?

It's more likely than you might think

[cerulean sable]

red is combat, yellow is navigation and blue is passive yeah but the latter 2 arent sure yet

[silver oak]

how do you define tools?

wait I mean

skills

[outer temple]

true thats probably why they are taking so long beacuase they have to make a big map because hornet is fast

[silver oak]

I know what tools are

[rocky imp]

they should add some multicolor tools

[slate wagon]

but like how far could you go with a category that's only navigation

[outer temple]

toby fox said that about having a run button in deltarune

[cerulean sable]

the spell equivalent from HK, from the looks of it you can now swap what skill/spell you wanna equip but you only have the slot for one skill

[outer temple]

so crank that up by like 50

[silver oak]

you think so?

[cerulean sable]

no more of the down skill (ddark) - neutral skill (fireball) - up skill (shriek)

this is my biggest evidence

blaspemous had this system iirc

you can only carry one abilitiy

for reference

[silver oak]

hmm

[cerulean sable]

and really again my issue is more on the balancing, i think 3 skills would be overkill

on top of having 3 tools

on top of having your moveset get changed by crests

[rocky imp]

yeah

[cerulean sable]

on top of all the passive tools as well

etc

[silver oak]

I do like having the main way to customize being tools

[slate wagon]

is that top icon for crests what the wanderer crest looks like now?
cause if so does it not have a skill?
or maybe you can have two skills, the default thrust she starts out with and then anything else

[rocky imp]

too many buffs, that isn't going to be fun to balance in updates

[cerulean sable]

on top of your movement toolset as well

[unkempt agate]

Oh, the new mortal combat has a slight glitch on the Nintendo switch

[outer temple]

well I do think the map will be very big but I think the real reason its taking so long is probably a combination of on all platforms and they are cramming in so much content

[unkempt agate]

Nothing major

Just a small one

[silver oak]

I think having less substantial active abilities but with more variation is a good step, or at least a nice difference from HK

[unkempt agate]

Wat

[silver oak]

Silksong does seem to be a lot more focused on customization anyway

[rocky imp]

didn't team cherry say they were nearly done as of a while ago but still bugfixing because of their release philosophy.

[cerulean sable]

i feel like, the default thrust (silk spear) is going to be required for one area gating then after that they give you skills that you wont really need to use for progression

kinda like, imagine after baldurs they gave you slottable abilities from now on, anything like the crumbling floor that rquire ddark

[unkempt agate]

Wa

[cerulean sable]

were discussing Silksong here please, wed rather not have it get interrupted

[silver oak]

is this the leth quote again

[cerulean sable]

thanks

[unkempt agate]

Why did the image get deleted

What'd I do

[cerulean sable]

because, people are talking about SS and as its literally in the rules to let convos go without derailing them

sure you can all it that way

[unkempt agate]

Ok, I'll just wait until you finish

[cerulean sable]

theres #off-topic and #hk-general, were not stopping you from posting there

[silver oak]

It's so funny how much damage this one quote did lmao

[slate wagon]

but like, the wanderers crest doesn't seem to have any space for a skill iirc, though they could always change that

[cerulean sable]

that was an old build tbh

i feel like its been changed since

remember stuff like the tool icon wasnt even available before

[slate wagon]

there's always the chance that skills are crest based

[cerulean sable]

iirc its implied you can swap them?

[silver oak]

the tool indicators are a recent thing iirc

[cerulean sable]

i dont think theyre gonna follow the way spells did in HK

[rocky imp]

i can't wait to see the differences between spoilers and final game

[cerulean sable]

at most the only thing thats gonna get required for your progression is the silk spear, but not else afterwards

[slate wagon]

Ik the icon, but that could also just be to signify which one you have on

[cerulean sable]

thats a fair assumption

just that the icon itself looks way different

[slate wagon]

though, if they are switchable, why wouldn't you just stick with something like gossamer storm
like different things for different situations ik, but like just a throw has to be pretty bad compared to the things she'll be able to do late game

unless it just does insane damage

[cerulean sable]

i mean, thats a balancing question we cant really make

"why use the tool x when you can just use y everytime"

we dont know, cuz we dont know how theyre balanced

but on glance gossammer is going to a stationary attack

[heady iron]

They're not

[cerulean sable]

sometimes you just wanna do a quick ability and get out, not maximize DPS at the cost of mobility you can see in the xbox trailer, the silk drain is kinda insane

[slate wagon]

being able to hold it for as long as you have silk is why I think it's gonna be busted
they could just allow her to be hit out of it to balance it

[grand ferry]

aluo you would make tons of money making clickbait thumbnails for many people

[cerulean sable]

then afterwards, the last 2 notches gets immediately drained in barely a second

[slate wagon]

huh, I thought it drained way slower than that
my memory is shit

[cerulean sable]

for the average joe that silk bar is mostly going to be for healing

you can argue that "well shaman shriek is like, isdhao;sjfdosbillion damage so why not just spam it" but most dont

[slate wagon]

tbf, I feel with 3 mask healing, you're encouraged to be a lot more aggressive with your silk since once you have a full spool it's a major health up

[uncut citrus]

i like how the date is blurred like thats really something very hidden and secret

[cerulean sable]

the healing portion was the biggest hurdle according to their own words

it was really hard to balance it

[heady iron]

Got a taste of how bind might be like w the crowsworn demo

[outer temple]

this whole you sakill thing I think will be really tricky to pull off on TCs end becuase you'd have to balance them really well

[heady iron]

Cause one heal is also 3 units of hp

[outer temple]

like there have been a bunch of spells that just look way better than something like silkspear (the first stab one)

[cerulean sable]

but overall i prefer it being part of the game because it feels like its part of hornets overall moveset vs to "let me just sit in a corner while i try to sneak a heal or no"

this also means theres less obvious boss downtime they had to add to give the knight a healing opportunity

and can focus on making the bosses much more aggressive

[outer temple]

yes I definitely prefer bind over focus

[slate wagon]

wasn't it slowed down a bit in one of the more recent trailers though?
her basically insta healing is what made bind cool to me, imagine fighting Seth and mid fight having to bind in the air cause sitting still for too long on the ground is free game to get whacked

[heady iron]

Maybe she had deep bind on

[outer temple]

its not instant healing you can still get hit and lose all your silk without healing

[cerulean sable]

yeah part of the balancing

but you know its still a step over the traditional hide in the corner and fucking hold A that HK had

[slate wagon]

basically
it's not exactly instant z but compared to TK it's instant

[cerulean sable]

thats actually one theory by some people but i think its just really part of their overall bind balancing

[outer temple]

kinda true

[slate wagon]

perfect opportunity to slap quick bind on a tool

[outer temple]

this is in the xbox trailer?

[cerulean sable]

like so far what we know is they can balance it around the levers of

• how much it heals
• how much it costs to heal
• how fast does it heal

[heady iron]

Woo no more magic numbers

[cerulean sable]

you pull some of these, the other has to go up

[cerulean sable]

https://youtu.be/JSfuFlhsxZY?t=45

[slate wagon]

3 mask, full spool
like 2-3 second bind, pretty good imo
maybe make it 4 seconds if that's still too fast

[cerulean sable]

people noticed the binding was like, a few miliseconds/frames longer

oh yeah

i forgot the 4th lever

the 4th lever is they increment enemy damage all over the board as well

which they did mention that early on they were already introducing 2 mask damage attacks

HK only added to like the husks and the exploding enemies but not for most mobs (until the mid-late game)

[slate wagon]

I really hope they just don't go the make everything so 2 damage route, I'm fine with more 2 damaging moves, but I hope it's not like later game enemies do 2 every single hit

[cerulean sable]

i just hope they tone down the 2 mask attack vfx, in HK it made sense as 2 mask was kinda rare and a big deal, but if its going to be more common on Silksong, they should tone it down a bit

[heady iron]

Some will do 3

[cerulean sable]

honestly think 3 mask is going to be the new highest

[slate wagon]

which is fine for bosses

[silver oak]

idk if they would do 3 mask tbh

it seems that they're going for faster attacks over more damage

[cerulean sable]

i dont think enemies will be "touch me, or hit me, i will do the same damage regardless"

rather its going to be obvious shit, like Sly only deals 1 mask damage but his great slash does 2 mask which makes sense

so contact damage maybe 1 mask, but special attacks like laces judgement cut is going to be 2 masks

[heady iron]

Smh they should split each mask into portions

[gray parcel]

Has TC canceled silksong yet?

[rustic ore]

yes of course they have

[slate wagon]

half mask damage

[rustic ore]

tf is this zelda

[gray parcel]

Thank god

[silver oak]

mask inflation

[atomic sparrow]

Unity fees

[slate wagon]

also, I hope there are more moves like this
that are so obviously telegraphed, but still cool visually and have a pretty nice punishment for getting caught

[grand ferry]

yes finally they can focus on zotesong

[heady iron]

An hp bar would be more configurable but I think discrete hp is a better indicator of how low you are

[outer temple]

I just tried to measure it I got 10 frames from the Nintendo live tree house and 21 frames from the xbox trailer

[silver oak]

for the most part, you can tell that the godhome bosses had more thought put into them, which is a good sign for silksong

[gray parcel]

Will it have a battle pass and micro transactions!?

[winged kiln]

Honestly we needed more heavy hitting bosses in hk so I’d love some 3-4 damage bosses or enemies. Most of the 2 dmg bosses are the late game ones but it would have been nice to have them spread throughout the game, because in some cases, it really changes up the fight completely (like pv and rad)

[outer temple]

which if you think about it deep focus was about twice as long a heal

[grand ferry]

of course, how can any modern gaming entity not do without any of those essentials

[silver oak]

in order for 3 damage to work it would need a REALLY good telegraph

[slate wagon]

4 damage is basically all of hornet's starting health

[outer temple]

wait but this is debunked in 2 seconds

hornet only heals 3 from the long heal

it must just be balancing

[silver oak]

yeah I think we had realized healing is gonna take longer

[winged kiln]

Yeah they could be very slow and have plenty of room to dodge

[slate wagon]

moves that make you feel dumb for getting caught cau obviously they were doing that but I got greedy and tried to get in two more hits

[frigid karma]

i mean, 4 masks is almost half of max health

[outer temple]

oh hey its past mid night

[silver oak]

there will probably be ways to speed up healing but the base should take a bit, you want to have healing be a bit of a risk

[olive bobcat]

"Hey man, I'm gonna hit you..."

[winged kiln]

Honestly some of my favourite bosses are the ones that have one attack that deals 2 damage but are easy to avoid like sheos great slash

[rustic ore]

Like Lace’s big cross-map z o o m

If you get hit by that you were asking for it

[heady iron]

I wonder if you can slip in a hit while she's doing that

[slate wagon]

dashing around? if you get caught it stun locks you

[winged kiln]

Yeah, just saying it could work as an end-game boss. For example, doing nkg on ascended is like twice as fun as on attuned because you REALLY don’t want to get hit or you’re gonna spend the next 2 minutes trying to recover

[slate wagon]

wouldn't be worth it even if you could

[gray parcel]

Thank goodness

[outer temple]

aka false knight

[olive bobcat]

@flat remnant You've seen Hall of Egress already, right?

[winged kiln]

Yo dude, can you just step aside for a minute? I’m gonna swing my club here in a sec. Thanks man. -4 damage boss fight

[uncut citrus]

-4dmg? very ncie healer!!!

[frigid karma]

you think i can beat nkg on acended ha ha ha

i've got a skill issure fr

[winged kiln]

This is what is generally known to we in the Hollow Knight by Team Cherry community as a ‘skill issue’

Jokes aside yeah 4 damage might be a little too punishing lol

[rustic ore]

for the record this is the dash attack im talking abt https://youtube.com/clip/Ugkx6hN7iVfPfWvZNXbMxA93p17nq4xY9-KM?si=gIP7wimGxluj0kxq

[slate wagon]

so fresh new faces in chat

[frigid karma]

honestly, i think a 4 mask damage move would either end up being too slow to even be a threat or broken

[slate wagon]

what do y'all think about a ranged crest

[quiet knot]

That would be cool ig

[frigid karma]

something like grubberfly maybe?

[quiet knot]

Like a bow?

[slate wagon]

I was thinking more like a whip

[rustic ore]

Or Hornet uses her needle like she does vs the knight

needle on a string combat

[frigid karma]

or something like this

[violet path]

finished my hw

boo ya

[quiet knot]

New pb?

[violet path]

32 seconds off

[carmine island]

You did it in 32 seconds?

Holy shit

[outer temple]

I hope they find some good uses for the song part of silksong

[quiet knot]

I meant personal best but that works ig

[outer temple]

I hope its not like just for talking to certain npcs or opening doors or something like in ocarina of time

[olive bobcat]

[silver oak]

HK did well with adaptive osts

[outer temple]

no I meant like gameplay

[silver oak]

I hope music will be incorporated into the gameplay yeah

we have the needolin already

[outer temple]

like the needeloin I think its called

[silver oak]

but like, no evidence of it being important to progression

[outer temple]

ye we dont really know what is does

[silver oak]

@cerulean sable what were you gonna say about music

[cerulean sable]

eh its for next time

[outer temple]

😦

[slate wagon]

im betting it's just gonna be an alternate taunt

[outer temple]

If i play a song on my needolin for you will it unlock that dialogue

[prisma meteor]

yoooo UAW strike

I just woke up and they were striking

awesome 😎

[cerulean sable]

true

next time tho cuz its going to get derailed soon anyway

[gray parcel]

The candy queen

[slate wagon]

ok but what about the ranged crest

[prisma meteor]

she's a femcel like me

[gray parcel]

[olive bobcat]

femcel and himbo dimension

[silver oak]

is there a specific crest that's more fit for ranged

[slate wagon]

wdym

[cerulean sable]

eh

i dont think Hornet really benefits from a ranged crest

[prisma meteor]

the winter king is not a himbo himbos are dumb but loveable

[slate wagon]

ohhh
that can't be all of them can it???

[silver oak]

none of these are really like, specifically ranged

[cerulean sable]

her moveset being focused on melee combat while her tools are there to complement her lack of range abilities

[slate wagon]

how come?

[prisma meteor]

and the winter king is not dumb he's just smug but he's also like manipulative

[coarse leaf]

Anybody know how to apologize for making someone’s social anxiety worse ?

[silver oak]

say sorry

[prisma meteor]

300 united states dollars

[olive bobcat]

Tell them if they don't forgive you their friends will hate them

[slate wagon]

I always took those are just the taste of what crests can do, not like
all the crests in the game

[last rock]

run away and hide in a corner

[coarse leaf]

I tried the orange name idea, and your idea

[slate wagon]

true
however have you considered
hornet using her needle like a whip

[coarse leaf]

It isn’t working

All I got was a silly clip of him

And he has probably 50 silly clips of me

[silver oak]

what's the command

[cerulean sable]

i guess a longer range crest is fine, but what usually people think of is like a bow crest where she fires off projectiles

[silver oak]

?tag silksong

[white sail]

No tag silksong found.

[silver oak]

fuck you

[cerulean sable]

if its basically a slightly longer range attack then maybe

[silver oak]

?tag ssdiss

[white sail]

No tag ssdiss found.

[cerulean sable]

i just think its a bit harder to balance

[slate wagon]

a bow defin wouldn't work

[silver oak]

I will get this

[cerulean sable]

yeah

[slate wagon]

god I hate mobile

[outer temple]

moss bag said maybe the one that he thought looked like a bow

[prisma meteor]

I love when Arlo is happy

[cerulean sable]

that was the harp crest

which makes hornet do shorter slashes

[outer temple]

ah

[cerulean sable]

and returns her original pogo

[coarse leaf]

I’m watching this rn I’m like 10 minutes in wtf

[prisma meteor]

I'm watching stuff about the UAW strike right now but I'll watch that next

[cerulean sable]

this one right

[pastel mortar]

the fishing minigame is nice

[coarse leaf]

My father is a uaw so I know all about it

[silver oak]

It doesn't feel like any one crest has a theme at least in the attacks

[coarse leaf]

The only place ford is striking is a bronco plant in Michigan

So far

[prisma meteor]

it's exciting ain't it

[coarse leaf]

I know one Jeep Wrangler place had struck

[silver oak]

like obv they're balanced towards each other

[coarse leaf]

Strangely yes

[slate wagon]

eh, reaper is wide attacks, the claw seems to be tick damage, harp is basically base hk controls

[cerulean sable]

im actually wondering

if its not just moveset differences they do

like this is very very hypothetical ofc but this is just an example

[atomic sparrow]

reaper crest sweep !!!

[cerulean sable]

like say, the claw crest has a unique mechanic where you build "wound stacks" where it only does small damage but gradually increases stack on an enemy, then you unload all that damage by doing a sprint attack

[silver oak]

having the crest attacks being preset is gonna present some interesting logistical moments

[olive bobcat]

Consider the following

[cerulean sable]

now ofc i dont really see HK doing something like this, this is like more of an RPG disease thing

but thats just my main example

[olive bobcat]

Lace fight where she backs off in each phase, so you fight her in 3 different rooms

[slate wagon]

bleed but worse

[prisma meteor]

not strangely! workers collectively bargaining and using their power to get more of what's rightfully theirs is exciting! union membership is frighteningly low in America and strikes are rare so all these recent strikes are really exciting and give me a lot of hope for American workers in the future

[silver oak]

like if you have one specific attack that you like, but you're not into the rest

[cerulean sable]

i mean this is just an example 🥴

[cerulean sable]

well too fucking bad, go back to the wanderers crest then

[olive bobcat]

Actually I still need to make a fake about the option to kill Lace after the second fight

[silver oak]

I don't think they

'd do persistent damage (much)

[outer temple]

yeah you're right it was this one

[silver oak]

it's harder to convey in a fluid combat situation

[cerulean sable]

yeah yeah, the UI probably opens up once you are ready to bind

[outer temple]

yeah

[cerulean sable]

though in the older builds it caused a lot of confusion whether thats the case because sometimes it doesnt open up despite the main bar being filled already

[slate wagon]

oh, a question I've had for a while is does the length of the needle determine how many masks she can heal? like could her bind change with crests, cause the needle part extends to a different number of masks depending on the crest

[cerulean sable]

i think its per crest

some crest makes it easier to bind and what not

[outer temple]

wiht the harp one specifically?

[cerulean sable]

in general

[silver oak]

you mean the physical model of her needle?

[cerulean sable]

back then when we only had the edge magazine to work with

[slate wagon]

the needle coming off of the big spool

behind the masks

[outer temple]

yeah ive heard that my guess is some of them are visual glitches

[silver oak]

oh, yes I think that does change

[cerulean sable]

there were some screenshots her silk meter is filled and glowing but the actual bind circle is still empty, so people were thinking is the broken spool supposed to instead represent if you have an existing cocoon (aka shade equivalent) lingering the world

so probably just got bugged or its not implemented

[slate wagon]

does the cocoon even give you anything?

[outer temple]

oh yeah the broken silk meter is super confusing

[cerulean sable]

could also be that we all have the wrong assumption

[outer temple]

silk refill

[cerulean sable]

so far in the demo, 100% refills your silk again so you start the boss fight at full strength

honestly the death mechanic is another controversial thing

but thats for another time

[silver oak]

we just don't have a lot of recent info on how death works

[slate wagon]

if they decide to go the route of having no bad punishment for death, like the majority of the soul meter missing
I feel like that'd be pretty exploitable

[silver oak]

the most comprehensive stuff we have is 4 years old now

[cerulean sable]

ehh, i dont think so?

[outer temple]

we dont have a lot of recent info period

[coarse leaf]

I thought you lost all your money

That isn’t strung up

[slate wagon]

you lose your money regardless tbf, like I'm thinking just die wherever you feel you're gonna want a free refill

[cerulean sable]

people often criticized HK's death system because it discourages exploration since youll retread the same spot instead of going "hey maybe im not just not ready for that place yet? i should go in a different route"

[outer temple]

yeah so if anything its more punishing because you cant get it back

wrong reply

i meant its more punishing because the shade gives your money back

[tawdry valley]

I half agree and half disagree with that criticism

[outer temple]

in silksong its gone

[tawdry valley]

if the player doesn't have anything to lose when exploring a higher threat area

then the area isn't high threat

in most cases, this means that devs say "alright, they lose half their cash"

[slate wagon]

SS should just take the Bloodborne route and have whatever last killed you have all your money

[tawdry valley]

and in most of THOSE cases, devs also think its too mean, and add a redemption system. ie corpse run

so I dont disagree with HK's corpse run

except for the fact that if you lose a shade, its 100% of your cash

and your soul meter is nerfed

[cerulean sable]

i can see why it can drag for some people though and how it impacts them psychologically

i was in a similar boat with DS1 earlier on until i stopped caring and also realize the game is still somewhat linear in some regards

[tawdry valley]

I think the solution is a corpse run system that encourages player choice.

[cerulean sable]

so say i die in blighttown, im gonna push ahead anyway since overall its just the same route im supposed to be taking

[tawdry valley]

right

wheras in hk you can trip into any pit, wander around, and then die

[cerulean sable]

yeah it is a lot more open, best example for me was dropping from crystal peaks down to resting grounds

[outer temple]

this is why deep nest toxic

[cerulean sable]

in other games, i wouldve been dead but to discover this entire new fucking area instead, my fucking brain almost fizzled out

[tawdry valley]

deepnest is great, lots of ways in and out, lots of very clear indicators to leave

[slate wagon]

deepnest was actually made for the whole watch your step so it gets a pass

[cerulean sable]

its funny to see deepnest

on one hand there was a reviewer to dumped his criticism on that area stating

its bad game design etc

[tawdry valley]

its the best designed area in the game hands down imo.

between that and CoT, and thats cause of CoT's interactive music

[cerulean sable]

meanwhile on the other hand you had joseph anderson who said it was the place that elevated his experience throughout his entire run

yeah

[slate wagon]

it gets the vibe it's trying to bring across great, but I can see why people wouldn't like it

[cerulean sable]

like tbf, it is a design choice thats not going to be for everyone, but thats why its also a high note to a lot of people

[tawdry valley]

Deepnest is dangerous without being punishing.