hk-lore

[shadow pier]

So the torch (grimm) is for stronger child but the flames are just for tnh?

[indigo venture]

Let me put it like this as I understand it

[pure inlet]

As far as we know Grimm barely has any personality and NMH is the one we talk to

[indigo venture]

Yea

So the Flame Gathering is to make Grimmchild stronger, thus when absorbs the previous Grimm, TNH will be rejuvenated and strengthened thanks to it's new avatar

[indigo venture]

So Grimmchild is it's own being before absorbing TNH?

[shadow pier]

Ok

[pure inlet]

Yes

But we aren’t sure how autonomous the Grimm species naturally are

At least enough to teleport away during an ending

I think

[shadow pier]

I want to say that’s wrong but I have no proof other than it wouldn’t be as interesting imo

[pure inlet]

Yeah I don’t find it interesting either

But its what “clan and master” suggests

I like to think that the Grimms have autonomy and are just duty bound

Grimmchilds at least

And then their wills are rewritten by NMH

[shadow pier]

Shhhhhhh let me have my delusions

Anyway I’m going to bed

Gn

[pure inlet]

Night

[wispy gull]

what if the pale king attempted to become a vessel himself, hence why we find him with, no mind

[sand stump]

I mean it would be pretty funny but he has a final thought which is detectable through Dreammail

[loud crater]

The reason why we find him with "no mind" is because hes dead.

[inland furnace]

I just realised, steel seer zi is from the city of steel 😲

[scenic surge]

._.

[wispy gull]

ah, well almost mindless? i would say after the white lady forsake him with no other possible alternatives the pale king attepted to become a vessel himself even though he is a grown bug and his nature is anathema to the void

but something goes wrong in the process and wipes out the entire consious mind, all will to even move, basically brain death, with but a single lingering thought left in soul, frozen for Aeons as his kingdom crumbled, helpless or maybe even unable to even feel pain or helplessness

besides i dont think void united can kill him unless he let inside him

[scenic surge]

???

[somber swift]

hi everybody

[sand stump]

Well there's a few things wrong with this

1. The kingdom had already basically crumbled by the time PK went into White Palace
2. The White Lady never forsook PK, she just left ti Queens Gardens.
3. Pale King showed no signs of trying to make himself a Vessel, his body is not marked in Void and he has many guards around him. Plus he is on top of his throne and still glowing.
4. He shows none of the usual side effects of being devoured by void(such as tendrils, greyscaled skin)

[sand stump]

Wassup

[loud crater]

"Hello, Mario."

[mild vale]

Is the Ogrim Hade a gf ?

[loud crater]

Maybe.

Perchance it was Dryaa.

If not then maybe a crush.

[mild vale]

Yeah mb

[indigo venture]

No it wasn't Dryya

[loud crater]

Oh yeah Isma my bad.

[indigo venture]

Probably not Isma either

but whatever

[rugged comet]

Hunter's Journal: White Defender

Description:
Figure from a fondly remembered past. Reacts gallantly to defeat by becoming stronger.

Hunter's notes:
"The Champion's Call, the Knotted Grove, the Battle of the Blackwyrm... I remember it all. I will carry those glories with me always... until we meet again."
- Ogrim of the Five Knights

Dream Nail:
Hegemol... I miss your humour...
Ze'mer... I miss your stories...
Dryya... I miss your wisdom...
Isma... I miss.. I miss you...
Your Majesty... Have faith in me!

@lexmolten used /journal name: White Defender

[high mesa]

guys

i think i'm wrong can someone correct me?

but i watched a lore video where it said that radiance used to rule hallownest

but didn't the pale king make hallownest?

[hot lily]

that's false

[high mesa]

yeah

ik

[hot lily]

radiance didn't rule over the kingdom because Hallownest didn't exist until PK founded it

[high mesa]

idk why they said that though

[hot lily]

it's a fairly common misconception

[high mesa]

exactly

[high mesa]

wait, then why did radiance make the infection?

[high mesa]

is radiance just evil?

[hot lily]

because the Moths forgot them

[dry glade]

Is The Knight really "hollow and pure" or theres no hollow vessel at all?

[hot lily]

likely the latter

[scenic surge]

What makes people think the knight is pure in the first place

it get's called a discarded vessel

and has multiple pieces of dialogue talking about it's will

mind etc

the game goes out of it's way in hollow knight specifically to mention wills a lot

because of it being one of the conditions for a truly pue vessel

[high mesa]

Ok\

[hot lily]

we don't know what PK precisely wanted out of a vessel

[neat kite]

That is true

[river sierra]

By the name and the abyss climb dialogue I imagine just a living but not necessarily sentient creature

[scenic surge]

a vessel with no will or mind

and before you say that makes no sense

1. the game goes out of it's way to talk about wills

2. the most basic creatures in hollow knight can get infected, so atp I feel as though him intending to have a living container without a mind or will of any kind would make sense

3. the whole plan didn't work anyways

[hot lily]

that's clearly not what he actually intended, because then the Worldsense dialogue would be completely contradictory

[scenic surge]

how is it sensing the state of the world contradictory

[scenic surge]

and again serrara an entire gigantic plot about the game is about wills in general

you can look back on dialogue throughout the game

[hot lily]

"Vessel. Though bound, you shall know the state of the world."
an entity cannot "know" if it doesn't have a mind to know in the first place

[scenic surge]

one of the things the infection literally does

in enslaving your will

that's said multiple times

and it also takes away your mind

[hot lily]

you aren't getting what i'm saying

reread what I quoted

[scenic surge]

hence why he states No will to break.

[near sequoia]

hey gang what's the topic

[scenic surge]

as the vessels are supposed to literally have no will

that the radiance can enslave

a huge part of the infection which is brought many times has to do with wills and minds

that's honestly something that get's brought up a ton

[hot lily]

please address this

[near sequoia]

The plan was to seal Radiance within THK's mind so this makes little sense

No will makes enough sense

[scenic surge]

A.I also has the capability of knowing things

[near sequoia]

What PK exactly had in mind with the birthplace speech doesn't matter a whole lot but he definitely anticipated THK having a mind

Its kinda what the entire plan hinged on and he also had it trained with a nail and spells

[scenic surge]

a literal piece of dialogue that was intended for pantheon of hallownest was the pure vessel saying no mind to think

[hot lily]

that's not a counterargument

[hot lily]

that dialogue isn't canon because it's cut

[scenic surge]

it is, you don't need to have a mind to know things

[near sequoia]

If they cut it its not canon

[scenic surge]

I agree we shouldn't use cut content

[near sequoia]

When someone asked TC about this dialogue they said they didn't know the players could even see it and that they never added it to the game

[scenic surge]

but it does showcase something

[hot lily]

ok so you're gonna move the goalposts until the words are meaningless, so there's no point in debating this further since this is a bad-faith argument

[near sequoia]

Also that dialogue wouldn't be literal anyway

[scenic surge]

It's not intended to be of bad faith

[near sequoia]

THK obviously had a mind that's what the entire plan hinged around

[scenic surge]

I'm just not sure what you exactly want me to do

or want me to stay away from using

[scenic surge]

okay I got to ask why is the game so hyper fixated on having a voice, will and mind

if it wasn't being literal

because star if you check

you'll notice the game puts a lot of attention on it

[neat kite]

My experience with him has been similar, they reassert their points again and again

[scenic surge]

nika didn't you state the same thing for horf

[near sequoia]

Its figurative language

Its not that out there

[neat kite]

Horf is different, I don’t remember saying that for horf

[near sequoia]

If you want an emotionless being with no will saying that its mindless and won't cry suffering is kinda reasonable

[neat kite]

I have nothing against him

[scenic surge]

and what do you have against me

[scenic surge]

huh

[neat kite]

Nothing, I just agree with what serrara said

[near sequoia]

We can have a convo without asserting people are acting in bad faith cmon gng

[scenic surge]

you know that's actually a good point star

[neat kite]

I mean it’s not worth having this convo, cya

[split compass]

hey guys havin' a purity convo

oh it's gone sideways, how novel

[scenic surge]

greetings lost yak

[split compass]

hey abhiker

[scenic surge]

I hope your day has been serving you well

[split compass]

it's been alr ig

i need to go get lunch soon

[scenic surge]

do you have an innate desire for a specific dish

[split compass]

might go to this sushi place i've been frequenting lately

get some takoyaki

[scenic surge]

well that's quite swell

[short fox]

anything but lore

[regal barn]

No no no

[short fox]

😐

[regal barn]

we were talking about Edmund Heckler

[short fox]

oh

[regal barn]

and Theodor Koch

You see, the real story begins in 1949

[fair jewel]

Guys VERY IMPORTANT QUESTION

If vessels can't talk

Then how does hollow knight, pure vessel and broken vessel scream

[indigo venture]

THK isn't roaring, It's Radiance

Pure Vessel and Broken Vessel don't scream

[fair jewel]

Pure vessel does

[indigo venture]

No it doesn't

No sound comes out

[fair jewel]

Well I thought Abt the and it's kinda ass theory

[indigo venture]

It's just striking a pose as if it screamed but it doesn't

[indigo venture]

What?

[fair jewel]

Well , then how the knight get stun?

[indigo venture]

Oh you mean the scream

[fair jewel]

Yh

[indigo venture]

Fucking Aura

[fair jewel]

It's just bad

[indigo venture]

TK gets stunned from the presence

[indigo venture]

What is

[fair jewel]

Like idk it's a bit ass , I was sure someone would say this but even

[indigo venture]

What is a bit ass

[fair jewel]

That hk screams bc of radiance

[indigo venture]

It is the Radiance's roar

is the thing

[fair jewel]

I mean it's radiance that scrams

[fair jewel]

Yes ik

[indigo venture]

Like that's what Radiance sounds like

[fair jewel]

And that's kinda sucks

[indigo venture]

How come

[fair jewel]

Radiance don't even scream in her boss fight

Or I don't remember?

I don't play with much volume tho

[indigo venture]

They do

[fair jewel]

They?

[indigo venture]

Radiance yeah

[fair jewel]

She's a female tho

[indigo venture]

They do scream

[indigo venture]

Uh huh

[fair jewel]

Everyone said me ts

[fair jewel]

I should replay the game again a whole time I guess

[sand stump]

They is a general term, it doesn't specifically refer to nonbinary people

Kinda like how Guys can be used for both men and women in certain contexts

[fair jewel]

Then why wont we just call radiance her?

I mean it's easier

I'm a guy and I use he him , radiance is a female so we use she her

(yes ik it can changes but that's a video game character tho)

[loud crater]

Technically they don't have an ingame confirmed gender, but TC refers to them as a her iirc.

[indigo venture]

I'm just an asshole that uses them

Using Her/She is fine

[fair jewel]

Always finding ways to be right

[sand stump]

I do it because for me it just doesn't sound right to constantly switch between only "she and her" or "he and him".
It just feels more natural to use They/Them alongside She/Her and He/Him rather than having them as completely separate things that cannot mix.

[fair jewel]

Well

We re born w one gender , male or female, 2 genders 2 pronouns

So use the correct ones 💔

[indigo venture]

No?

[sand stump]

But they is a neutral term that can refer to either. This is a well established thing in the English Language 😭

[indigo venture]

One isn't born with a gender

Plus there's more than 2 genders

[sand stump]

What 😭

Sexual Orientation and Gender are different no?

[indigo venture]

Yeh

[fair jewel]

Were born with

[fair jewel]

Yes?

[sand stump]

wait

[fair jewel]

I wait

[sand stump]

What is a Gender? Like I though there was only Male and Female

[indigo venture]

You just acknowledged the existance of Nonbinary

[fair jewel]

Wym?

[sand stump]

and if Transgender is one, isn't that just placed under whichever they switched to?

[fair jewel]

Transgender isn't one really

Cus when ur trans it means u change ur gender

[sand stump]

Like cuz they're saying that theres a bunch of different Genders, but I can only really see 2

[sand stump]

Yeah thats what I'm sayin

[fair jewel]

Well non binary

Queer

What else u want

[sand stump]

Those are pronouns

[fair jewel]

Demiboy

Demigirl

[sand stump]

Orientation

[fair jewel]

Idk

[fair jewel]

No?

[sand stump]

Never heard of that before 😭

[fair jewel]

There's genderqueer

[sand stump]

Queer is gay no?

[fair jewel]

Google

[fair jewel]

Google

[indigo venture]

Genderfluid, Agender, Bigender

[regal barn]

If you want to make it simple, just do what you want as long as you dont hurt nobody (aka consent and common sense/laws)

[indigo venture]

Yk this conversation isn't for here so I'll just stop

[sand stump]

I have heard of this one before

[fair jewel]

Forgot ts one yeahh

[sand stump]

Imma stop
but still, fairly interestin. Never really put thought into those as Separate Genders

[fading crane]

What is the voice of gods?

[rugged comet]

Godseeker - Pantheon of the Sage - First Encounter

Thou art painfully persistent! Why dost thou defile this pantheon with thine presence? Seek ye glory, o vain one?
Thou misunderstand Our purpose. Through ritual combat are We attuned to the voices of the Gods.
Ever higher do they lead Us! Higher and higher and higher! Until through Godly focus do We attain communion with that great power sleeping in the Kingdom's heart...

@nostor_10. used /npcs quest name: Godseeker category: Pantheon of the Sage dialogue: First Encounter

[sand stump]

I think they just swapped resonance with voice

[fading crane]

🤔

[indigo venture]

Godseeker uses voice to refer to attunement I think

And just presence in general

[tough jetty]

@noble tree

...It refuses to trade...? It has a will... all Its own. Can refuse. Jinn will keep waiting... until a gift comes.
-Jinn, to TK
also TOA unleashes the pain of TK (which is an emotion)

The game's theme is inevitability in how nothing ever lasts for ever and nothing is perfect (very dummed down explanation of it)

[covert goblet]

physical pain in this scenario

[tough jetty]

By the way the Jinn dialogue is when jinn asks for an egg and you decline giving

[covert goblet]

like literal damage

not emotional pain

[tough jetty]

pain is an emotion. Injury and scars is the physical version

[noble tree]

Isn’t a physical pain emotional as well ?

[covert goblet]

no

[tough jetty]

Pain is a feeling not a physical property

[covert goblet]

get googled on

[tough jetty]

sensory signal?

[covert goblet]

sensory

has nothing to do with thoughts

[tough jetty]

as in it feels it

well it needs a brain to process the signal

i think

i don't know human biology/anatomy that well so don't trust me

[covert goblet]

maybe the charm senses the damage and assumes pain

[covert goblet]

neither do i twin

but the charm never randomly goes off indicating that the knight's only "pain" is through physically damaging it

[tough jetty]

fair but i will trust in team cherry that they wrote it right

[noble tree]

Well TK isn’t human anyways

[tough jetty]

and the way they wrote it (at least to me) indicates that TK feels pain

What do you have to say about the jinn one though

[noble tree]

But besides isn’t going to the radiance or seal the infection means that TK has a purpose and a purpose requires a will to be done ?

[covert goblet]

it indicates the knight has pain that belongs to it, which can be interpreted someway

[tough jetty]

the way i interpret it is that it activates when tk feels pain but we could play this game all day and that's boring

[tough jetty]

uhh

[covert goblet]

well, theres no situation in which the knight does not have a will, because YOU are the knight, and you have a will

[tough jetty]

Tk got a call for that

that's how the game starts

quirrel comic lore

[covert goblet]

i desperately need to read the quirrel comic

where can i find it

[noble tree]

Yeah but that collapses the idea of the « no will to break » ?isn’t it ?

[tough jetty]

Things like Darwinism and natural selection/evolution i wouldn't say are thoughts, more like genetic code/instincts

[covert goblet]

those are PK's words

who knows if bro knows what hes talking about

[tough jetty]

PK was wrong about a lot of things

like thinking THK was pure

which he never was

it*

[covert goblet]

and thinking hallownest either was or would be the last standing kingdom

[tough jetty]

thinking something was eternal would be extremely hypocritical

[noble tree]

Maybe because he doesn’t understand the nature of void creatures

[tough jetty]

he put the void in it

[covert goblet]

yeah but he didnt make the void

[tough jetty]

fair

(and obvious)

[noble tree]

Yeah but he doesn’t understand the void

[covert goblet]

indeed

[noble tree]

He failed from the start

[tough jetty]

Void and Shamans are ancient and date Who Knows How Many years before any civilization

[tough jetty]

yes

[covert goblet]

i wonder the extent of his foresight, cuz he didnt see utter collapse coming at all

[noble tree]

Which means the only actual effective ending are where you kill radiance

[covert goblet]

in terms of the infection yes

[tough jetty]

there's a quote from fungal that means something uhh lemme find it

[covert goblet]

id be surprised if it meant nothing ✌️

[covert goblet]

but some endings also have good in it anyways

like in the godhome ending the knight still saves hornets life

which is good

[noble tree]

If the knight is sealed are there more vessels that are going to try to climb from the abyss or is TK the last one ?

[tough jetty]

"Pale Wyrm... What good to foresee a demise unavoidable?". - Some fossilized mushroom in fungal core

[covert goblet]

there are already vessels out of the abyss, likely many, we even see one in bellhart in silksong

[noble tree]

Oh so basically TK won the contest

Lol

[covert goblet]

THK won the contest

the knight escaped later and wound up being the goat

[tough jetty]

tk aint the goat?

[covert goblet]

the goat when he kills radiance

[tough jetty]

THK also helps i gues

[covert goblet]

so did he see a demise and just threw everything at it

[noble tree]

But TK had it difficult tho THK got sealed right away however TK had to face so many obstacles

[covert goblet]

TK would have done NO better than THK

[tough jetty]

THK endured the path of pain (at least once), was trainedby Dryya, and was also put through a regiment of training.

[noble tree]

Probably THK faced hornet as well or not ?

[covert goblet]

maybe, that doesnt change much here

[tough jetty]

probably not

[covert goblet]

but judging by how THK is a much harder fight than hornet even while being disabled means he probably wouldve wiped the floor against hornet

[tough jetty]

this is again, while he had one arm

[covert goblet]

yes disabled

pure vessel is even more formidable

[tough jetty]

yes i know it's an it but i call it a he

[noble tree]

Probably but i guess the version of hornet in silksong would beat him tho

[covert goblet]

i do too, easy mistake

[tough jetty]

i think? pure vessel is the thought of THK, "be perfect for father" but i may be wrong

[indigo venture]

Pure Vessel is a memory

[covert goblet]

lowk true

[tough jetty]

no i know it's just using it pronouns feel sweird

[indigo venture]

It's THK's previous form

[tough jetty]

i stand very easily corrected

[indigo venture]

before being tainted by the infection, hence the "Pure"

[covert goblet]

pure vessel is an ideal form im pretty sure ? not a memory

[indigo venture]

What yall debating

[tough jetty]

Well it never was pure, no?

[indigo venture]

Breh

[covert goblet]

idk if im wrong here

[indigo venture]

Give me a sec cuz the dialogue isn't on Hallowscribble

brb

[tough jetty]

or at least never proven pure?

[noble tree]

I guess when PL raised him it lost his purity maybe

[indigo venture]

PL?

[covert goblet]

various things around PK and TK and THK and the infection

[indigo venture]

Also no it displays emotions when fresh out of the Abyss

[tough jetty]

yep

[noble tree]

I mean PK

[indigo venture]

Turning to look back at TK with no instructions and such

[indigo venture]

Hm

[tough jetty]

Plus for it to gain a thought it would have to have a mind to harbor it from the getgo

[indigo venture]

Theorically

Yes

Requirements to be considered pure are messy I suppose

[covert goblet]

this suggests the glory of the pure form exists in godhome and godhome only, it could have once existed in hallownest, i personally dont think this gives any confirmation on that

[tough jetty]

"Theoretically"
We are talking about the sapience/purity/sentience/whateverthewordis of a fictional character who can not speak and is only talked about cryptically.

[noble tree]

Aren’t the cuffs more of a proof that the vessel isn’t pure cause if the vessel is perfectly hollow it can move around with no problem while still having radiance sealed

[indigo venture]

How does it suggest that?

I mean yes it exists only in godhome now, at the current moment

[covert goblet]

paraphrased "the glory of the pure form endures in this pantheon"

[indigo venture]

"The glory of its pure form endures, ruler of this pantheon"

[covert goblet]

yeah

[indigo venture]

It's the same as with Nailsage Sly

It's a memory attuned by the Godseekers that now exists within Godhome

I don't see how it'd imply it never existed in Hallownest, specially considering the previous sentence

"Though it's wordly body be bound and defiled"

[covert goblet]

i guess that makes sense, but does it mean the radiance was one absolute radiance, and out there is a winged form of nosk that encountered hornet?

[indigo venture]

That's a special case

AbsRad isn't a memory, IT IS Radiance

Boosted by Godly Focus, like VGForm > Focus

It's two different cases that can't be compared

[covert goblet]

yeah

PV could be like that too but i guess itd make more sense that not

[indigo venture]

I mean it's not like it is THK present

[covert goblet]

and did tiso die to BM too fast for the godseeker to know his combat abilities, but not too fast for godseeker to be made aware of his existance ?

[hot lily]

PV is a memory

[wind osprey]

If you notice carefully, knight tried to swim up when it doesnt have isma tear. So my opinion is, it is not about acid only but also it is about whether it can swim or not

[brisk venture]

Knight can swim in normal waters

[wind osprey]

Ah yes right. I I forgot

[scenic surge]

what is bigender

I've heard of genderfluid which doesn't really makes sense but bigender

I'm genuinely curious as to what that refers to :o

seriously really curious

[signal marlin]

identifying with 2 distinct genders

[dry glade]

When PK said "no cost too great" was it about the vessels or the amount of buzzsaw he bought

[silk tinsel]

OK SO I'VE JUST BEAT P5 AND I HAVE SOME QUESTIONS

[trail hemlock]

Yez?

[dry glade]

How tf do you beat P5 bro ive been stuck on it since 2024

[trail hemlock]

Its not that hard

[silk tinsel]

i'm about to spoil the end cutscene so begone for your own sake if you haven't already had it spoiled

[dry glade]

The thing is my computer is so fucking broken the game cant even load normally (often getting crashed) and i have massive skill issues

[trail hemlock]

Its the lore channel here dw

[trail hemlock]

Hmm
Divice issue

[silk tinsel]

that's why i'm telling them to leave in case they don't want spoilers

[dry glade]

I need to buy a better computer omfg

[trail hemlock]

Or a switch

[silk tinsel]

so godseeker freakin dies and then the orange disappears from those vines and then the hollow knight steps out to where hornet is

so like, radiance is dead. that's what the vines dying meant i think. cuz then THK walks out. but i'm not sure if it's violent? because Hornet seems ready to fight it

[trail hemlock]

That, is what the cutscene shows

[silk tinsel]

yeah

so we just don't know what happens?

[trail hemlock]

So?

Nope

[silk tinsel]

bit disappointed there's no absrad journel entry for any extra lore

not sure what it could add but still

[subtle axle]

question thats im so fucking confused on, when the pale king makes the vessel and throws them in the abyss, cuz of ya know, hunger games type of stuff, and btw abyss is the lowest place ever in hallownest but how tf do, the knight appear in howling cliff the highest point in hallownest????? and we see even more vessel like the one in hornet I boss fight, LIKE HOW DID THE KNIGHT AVOIDED EVERY SINGLE BOSS, BUG, MONSTER IN THE WAY?????? BTW NO TRAIN TRAVEL ANDDD ELEVATOR AND STAG SO IT WAS BRUTALLY GOING UP

ik its long but trust me it make sense if u read it

[trail hemlock]

They escped, and ran from Hallownest, they came back becouse they felt their sibling cry
Some have escped the abyss after The Hollow Knight was chained

[subtle axle]

but the knight when getting the voidheart charm, we see lore abt us getting left behind in the abyss or is that just random other vessel the knight managed to see its past

[trail hemlock]

*Remember its past

After they left hallownest they forgot everything

They feel the duty but dont know what that is

[subtle axle]

probably forgot everything cuz, of ya know the line of pale king in howling cliffs when you get out of it, you just become brainless, but the vessels are brainless tho, they’re meant to have no emotion or dont have a mind

[trail hemlock]

They supposed to have none, but the vessels have emotion and thoughts

[subtle axle]

?

wydm

well i guess its right

since in godhome p5 we see winged nosk which is hornet and nosk lures people with what the people close ones or friend

[trail hemlock]

Vessels have minds to think, they cant talk but they screamed their suffering even Pure vessels has thoughts if you dream nail them

[subtle axle]

but theres no vessel to dream nail

the only one was scrapped

[trail hemlock]

I remember in one of some youtuber video that pure vessel has dream nail dialouge

[subtle axle]

which is pure vessel

but they scrapped it

[trail hemlock]

But it still shows that Pure vessel wasnt pure

Still its an another evidance that the vessels are beings with thoughts and emotions

If not

Then why the hell there is so many of them

[subtle axle]

*evidence

[trail hemlock]

I was missing that one

Oh wait

[subtle axle]

probably cuz pale king is a gamble addict and didnt want to lose his bet so he made a hundreds so its guaranteed that one of them gonna win

[trail hemlock]

You joking?

[uneven mantle]

how strong in comparison is pale king even?

[trail hemlock]

Compare to who?

[uneven mantle]

to everyone

[trail hemlock]

To all normal bugs not even close
To higher beings such as Unn or radiance pretty close
To other pale being aka silksong final boss maybe stronger, becouse of seeing into the future
To void, well he knows how to calm it
You gotta be bit more specific

[uneven mantle]

who would win and how close would it be to prime pure vessel

[trail hemlock]

Probably no one realy, it took radiance god knows how long to took such Control into weaken pure vessel

[trail hemlock]

Anything alse?

[uneven mantle]

nope thats all thank ya

[trail hemlock]

Of course

[civic bear]

hi. im in the other silksong chat

[trail hemlock]

Cool

[scenic surge]

Top 5 strongest characters

[naive carbon]

I wanted somebody's intrepatation of how the knight was able to wander out of hollownest and then at the start of the game arrived there with loss of his memory not remembering his origin i believe there were other vessels that arrived from outside of hollownest we know from lost kin and other body's around hornet during the first fight pale king had blocked the path from ancient basin as we require the king's brand to enter there if somebody got any theory please tell

[loud crater]

The Knight wouldn't have lost its memories after leaving Hallownest.

[naive carbon]

?

[loud crater]

Like Hornet it wouldn't rely on the PK's beacon for higher thought.

[timber snow]

TKs memories are likely repressed due to trauma, rather than a magical reason

jst good old fashioned issues

[naive carbon]

he went to his origin to remember his past wyhere we get the cut secene

[loud crater]

||"Child wielding trauma"-Shakra||

[naive carbon]

tk full form?

[loud crater]

If it had forgotten it then Dreamnailing its reflection wouldn't have done anything. It repressed the memories likely as a trauma response.

[naive carbon]

knight wont be having trauma

[loud crater]

Bro what.

[ebon patio]

bro he witness all of his family members die around him from fall damage

[loud crater]

It had to crawl through a pile of its own siblings corpses.

[ebon patio]

he was in squid game from childbirth

[naive carbon]

he is hollow knight

[loud crater]

Not how that works.

And also wrong.

[naive carbon]

No cost too great
No mind to think
No will to break
No voice to cry suffering
Born of God and void
You shall seal the blinding light that plagues their dreams
You are the vessel
You are the Hollow Knight

he got no mind

[loud crater]

None of that is literal and it isnt referring to us.

[naive carbon]

any how any idea on this

[ebon patio]

many believe he escaped through deepnest along with other vessels

[naive carbon]

i see

could be

[near sequoia]

ancient civilization soul portal

[naive carbon]

lol

[naive carbon]

best theory

[dry glade]

When PK said "no cost too great" was it about the vessels or the amount of buzzsaw he bought

[surreal flame]

so uh is PV even still alive?

||cuz we see it in the p5 ending||

[loud crater]

Potentially.

[split compass]

hanging out back in Hallownest

wondering what the hell happened to Hornet

[hot lily]

in ETV, yes, THK is still alive

[tough jetty]

Pv isn't real

It's a memory or a dream, but most likely the former

THK is alive, yes

[tough jetty]

Every vessel has a mind

No vessel is perfect

There is no hollow knight.

[loud crater]

Well, there is a Hollow Knight, Hollow is just being filled up with Void. Technically any Vessel thats Knightly would be a Hollow Knight, and of course there's The Hollow Knight. But there's no Pure Vessel.

[loud crater]

If it isn't real, then why can it hurt me?

[scenic surge]

._.

what

yes it is

well as real as a past version of the hollow knight was

[tough jetty]

isn't physically real currently

[scenic surge]

okay yes that is true

currently it isn't that way

[craggy trout]

But we have no confirmation it ever actually existed is the issue, raising someone to their hypothetical peak doesn't mean they've been at that peak before if that makes sense

PV is definitely HEAVILY rooted in a past version of thk of course, but the question of if it ever existed in that form is technically unanswered

Althogujt kinda irrelevant I will admit

[loud crater]

GodSeeker calling it their "pure form" could refer to it at their prior peak.

As well as its Hunter's Journal description saying "raised and trained to prime form" and all.

[hot lily]

we do have confirmation; it's a memory of their historical peak strength

[craggy trout]

Could also be referring to a form where it is untainted and genuinely Hollow, which would make it a "pure form"

And we know thk was not really hollow

That's open ended

[hot lily]

it's not, because the Godseekers do not know what purity actually is

[loud crater]

Pure*

[craggy trout]

Where was that said though

Obviously interpretations are needed to make sense of any story but you can't interpret everything without a little assuming

[hot lily]

• the Godseekers contrast PV with THK's current state
• PV's HJ description

the Godseekers themselves do not "raise and train" combatants let alone vessels

[craggy trout]

They seem to uplift them through their focus however

Allowing them to reach some kindnofnpeak, not one specifically realistic, perhaps a memory or a desire

It could be interpreted either way

[hot lily]

it's a memory, not a fabrication

if it was a fabrication they would not specifically mention how "the glory of its pure form endures" in present tense

[loud crater]

Pretty sure that only really happens in P5 tho.

[craggy trout]

Does it not happen at every pantheons peak?

[indigo venture]

No

[hot lily]

no

[craggy trout]

We see stronger versions of these characters we hadn't seen before

[indigo venture]

Oro and Mato and Sheo aren't stronger per se

[loud crater]

If it did we'd be fighting Winged Nosk and Sisters of Battle way earlier.

[indigo venture]

Sly is just a memory

[craggy trout]

They aren't at the peak of their pantheons

[hot lily]

so?

[craggy trout]

P5 is (quite literally) higher than the other pantheons

Most bosses are enhanced in some way

[hot lily]

yes however PV isn't first met in that pantheon

[indigo venture]

I mean gameplay wise I guess some have more HP

[craggy trout]

I'm aware

That's not my point though

That just explains why sisters of battle and winged nosk happened then rather than in the lower pantheons

Even though I'd say the godseekers focus still ascended or atleast somewhat enhanced some gods at lower pantheon peaks

[tough jetty]

doesn't godseeker like worship pantheon 5 or the peak of it

[hot lily]

enhancement doesn't change the basis of what a boss comes from

[tough jetty]

i cant remember

[craggy trout]

Sheo is allowed to merge his love for the arts with his immense skill with the nail

Mato and oro get to work together flawlessly as a team

Sly relives his glory days, literally having a different coloured set of wings

Pv is the core of the discussion ofc

[indigo venture]

They worship all the gods in there

They just adore Radiance more

[craggy trout]

Thk as a basis, WANTED (probably) to be pure, it was MADE to be pure, this new form is heavily based off of that

[indigo venture]

So your saying PV is made out of THK's desire?

[craggy trout]

I guess so? Something along those lines

[indigo venture]

Eh

I mean it's pretty implied PV is a memory

[craggy trout]

I'm just saying it's not necessarily an actual moment in thks timeline

It's a minor point but js one I find interesting

[craggy trout]

But then sheo's ascension in p2 doesn't make much sense, combining his artistry and his skill for the nail

[hot lily]

it is, because of how the Godseekers phrase its appearance in contrast to THK's physical state

[craggy trout]

I dount that'd be a memory

[craggy trout]

How do they phrase it then

I don't exactly remember it myself, mb if I looked over it earlier

[indigo venture]

"Endures" implies it's existed before and has lasted up to that moment

[hot lily]

"Though its worldly body be bound and defiled, the glory of its pure form endures, ruler of this pantheon. Its endless power shall attune Us to the one greater still, a God of Gods!"

[indigo venture]

Can't pull it up in hallowscribble cause Pantheon of The Knight is bugged

[hot lily]

also

"O bound one, thy silence nearly deafens Us. Foolishly we feared thee, yet only by thine providence shall We find the one We seek. The God sleeping within..."

[craggy trout]

Whatever that means

[hot lily]

"only by thine providence" means that it is only through this being that they can access Radiance

in other words, THK's mind

[craggy trout]

Fair enough

[craggy trout]

What about it

?

[craggy trout]

Could technically be argued that the glory of its form it's just it's own/its fathers ideals for it but I'm not gonna be that much of a hard ass

Something something despite it having fallen so far it still holds those ideals/wishes deepnwithin it's mind

But that's a shaky point

[hot lily]

also, if it never actually physically existed, the HJ description of "Chosen vessel, raised and trained to prime form" would be incoherent since there wouldn't have actually been anyone who did that

[hot lily]

we do not know what THK thought of PK or even itself

it's completely unknown

[craggy trout]

Trye

[indigo venture]

PoP is from PK's Point of View, may I add

[tranquil flint]

Hey, quick question, why doesn't The Hollow Knight have 2 arms?

[near sequoia]

infection probably rotted one off

[unique swift]

Horrifying sludge

[noble tree]

Someone please explain to me why when you have the void heart and you choose to be the seal instead hornet become the dreamer i don’t understand the relationship between void heart and hornet destiny

[ivory zenith]

Wait so the Dreamers put you in eternal sleep because they're scared of your intentions to break the Vessel and Seer saves you because she owns the Dreamnail and gives it to you because she sees your potential

[ivory zenith]

Pyke from League!

[noble tree]

Yep

[ivory zenith]

I think because she helped you defeating your sibling and she's a pale being

I dunno, maybe there's more explanation in Silksong but I haven't played it yet

[noble tree]

Me too we’ll see to it

[ivory zenith]

She literally dragged our body to her place and used the Dreamnail to connect with us?

[fresh rune]

Why didnt silksong interact with mr mushroom in hallow nest, does she just dont want to acknowledge that her kingdom is nearly dead

[fresh rune]

Nope, their greenpath encounter says otherwise

[ivory zenith]

What

[fresh rune]

When you defeat hornet and get the cloak you get an encounter with them

They tell you to free them

[ivory zenith]

that's literally before you reach that point I am now

[fresh rune]

Yes

I dont know why they contradict themselfs

But they literally acknowledge you as the perfect vessel

[ivory zenith]

isn't that later on

[wispy gull]

nods nods, i was cofused by the void particles in this throne room, and the white lady shackled herself so as to never have another kid right? thats what i meant by forsaking him

[fresh rune]

Nope

It is when you defeat hornet 1

[rugged comet]

Hornet - General - Greenpath

Come no closer, ghost.
I've seen you, creeping through the undergrowth, stalking me.
This old kingdom... A terrible thing awakens. I can smell it in the air...
I know what you are. I know what you'd try to do. I can't allow it.

@interestingperson0 used /npcs wanderers name: Hornet category: General dialogue: Greenpath

[ivory zenith]

bruh the bot doesn't have these exact words

[fresh rune]

Not hornet the dreamers

[craggy jacinth]

vouch @mighty flax gave whistling for bfc

[mighty flax]

??

[ivory zenith]

literally told you these quotes are missing in the bot

[fresh rune]

Oh wait I missremembered

Would it seek to break the Seals?
They cannot be undone.

They must be undone.

Let us sleep little shadow.
Return to your darkness.
Allow us our peace.

[ivory zenith]

yeah

[fresh rune]

I missremembered them

[ivory zenith]

think only White Lady has hope for us and not the dreamers

[fresh rune]

But one of the three dreamers hope for the seal to be undone

[ivory zenith]

Monomon iirc

[fresh rune]

They must be undone

[loud crater]

Probably Monomon.

[ivory zenith]

hey Horf

[ivory zenith]

Horf

[loud crater]

More or less correct.

[ivory zenith]

wdym

[loud crater]

This is.

[fresh rune]

Horf

Answer that

Maybe she is in a state of denial

[loud crater]

Hornet just never finds them.

[fresh rune]

But she knows since we are in a nearly destroyed kingdom the mushroom is their

She just doesnt want to accept that is my theory

She just doesnt want to acknowledge the fact that she was a sentinal to a dead kingdom

[fading crane]

What is a radiant being?

[fresh rune]

As told from hollow kngiht silksong (spoilers) ||she doesnt want to live that role another time||

[ivory zenith]

where do you see that term

[fading crane]

Moss prophet

[ivory zenith]

the bush guy

[rugged comet]

Moss Prophet - Alive - Moss Prophet First Encounter

Oooohhh radiant being, we are blessed. Your rays touch us. Your warmth fills us.
Hallownest is born again, united in your blazing image. Oohhh...

@nostor_10. used /npcs misc name: Moss Prophet category: Alive dialogue: Moss Prophet First Encounter

[ivory zenith]

He's aware of Radiance?

[fresh rune]

Abs radiant or normal radiant

But they only see the light

They want to acknowledge the god spreading that radiant light

I think normal radiant not abs rad

[scenic surge]

she didn't use the dream nail

the moths in genreal have dream powers

not specific to the dream nail as it's one of a kind

[ivory zenith]

they created it tho?

Wait wait, remind me why they created the Dreamnail

[scenic surge]

._. what

[fresh rune]

Why are the kingdoms of the world of hollow knight so far apart and without any diplomatic relationship. Can anyone that knows geopolitics explain. (Like other than the gods of each kingdom wanting their followers to follow only them)

[fresh rune]

We saw that some kingdoms contain more than one god

[ivory zenith]

what what

GIM TROUPE!!!

[fresh rune]

For them to share power

[sand stump]

She did do that yeah, and the void particles are probably because of the Kingsmould corpses around

[fresh rune]

Also dreamnail can extract soul

Why didnt pale king destroy the radiance statue from hallownest crown

[scenic surge]

she doesn't own the dream nail

she helped you find it in hte dream realm

didn't really give it to you

[fading crane]

Good question...

Wait

[fading crane]

Pale King also didn't destroy the Unn temple

[fresh rune]

Unn wouldnt steal his shine because unn dont speak with nobody

[fading crane]

And Radiance?

[ivory zenith]

Seer literally gave The Knight the Dreamnail

[fading crane]

Why her statue are not destroyed completely?

[scenic surge]

the knight literally grabs it

in the dream realm

[ivory zenith]

bait or low iq

[loud crater]

Technically Seer doesn't give it to them. They just implore them to take it.

[scenic surge]

exactly

[scenic surge]

The dream nail was literally in this weird pedestal of sorts

in the dream realm

and seer guides you to it

[rugged comet]

Seer - In the Dream - First Encounter in the Dream

What a terrible fate they've visited upon you.
To cast you away into this space between body and soul.
Will you accept their judgement and fade slowly away?
Or will you take the weapon before you, and cut your way out of this sad, forgotten dream?

@interestingperson0 used /npcs quest name: Seer category: In the Dream dialogue: First Encounter in the Dream

[fresh rune]

Real questoon we need to ask

[loud crater]

That ain't me bro.

[fresh rune]

Wrong lore guy

[loud crater]

PK either never found it, saw no reason to destroy it or didnt want to piss the Radiance off even more.

[fading crane]

I never understand that of "space between body and soul"
The soul is, also, a realm higher than the dream realm?

[hot lily]

there could be a soul realm however it's unclear

[loud crater]

Its probably referring to like the ||Crest|| or some shit.

[ivory zenith]

Who created the Dreamnail

[loud crater]

The Moths.

[fading crane]

And what about the Wyrm's premonition? Why does he have it if he never uses it?

[scenic surge]

Who says he never used it

[ivory zenith]

so it was somewhere in the dream realm and Seer guided us to it when the dreamers put us to sleep

[scenic surge]

yes

also please don't insult another individuals intelligience

[ivory zenith]

shorty

[loud crater]

He does, its just never mentioned how he uses it. We dont get a journal from PK.

[fading crane]

🤔

[fresh rune]

But it is in hallown nest crest

[loud crater]

Crown*
And its just a geographical location.

[fresh rune]

I ment crown

[scenic surge]

I'm gonna be real horf I think the Pale king just didn't see a reason to destroy it

he left all of the moths totems

[hot lily]

we have no idea what this is

[scenic surge]

and historical monuments untouched

[fresh rune]

I remembrt there being alot of statues their, might reply the game for some screenshots and to explain my point

[scenic surge]

yk something I appreciate horf

is that Seer does all of this for the knight

to try and fix her ancestors crimes

Idk why people don't really mention that at all

[hot lily]

i mean yeah she's very repentant

[scenic surge]

"Tending these graves and guiding the Wielder... all penitence for old crimes."

"ah. Do as you wish, my promise is fulfilled. May the crimes of my tribe be washed away in time"

Really appreciate her

[scenic surge]

I do wish she got a better fate in the end

[ivory zenith]

Silksong doesn't tell us nothing either?

spoiler if needed tho

[ivory zenith]

but did she drag us tho

[pure inlet]

She saved us

But probably physically yeah

Maybe not actually

Dreamers could have sent your physical body to the dream like WP and Rad

[ivory zenith]

So she teleported us there with the Dreamnail or something?

[hot lily]

well she clearly moved TK's physical body somehow

[loud crater]

Flase
The earth moved beneath TK to move it to where it woke up at.

[ivory zenith]

we don't know

another one

Does Cornifer have an enemy?

[loud crater]

Any who oppose him fall by his quill.

[jade wedge]

does anyone know any more evidence that the grubfather is helping the grubs evolve to their next stage? love the grubs

[scenic surge]

grubberflies elegy description

[jade wedge]

oh yeah! noted lol

[scenic surge]

"Contains the gratitude of grubs who will move to the next stage of their lives"

literally states that they are going into their next stage of life

grub father is outright just sacrificing himself

for his kiddos

[jade wedge]

o7 grubfather

[scenic surge]

because he's a legendary dad

o7 indeed

[jade wedge]

i like how when you dream nail him hes so happy

[scenic surge]

his kids get to grow up of course he's happy

[fresh rune]

Paleking is weird

He had foresight

He had unlimited power

But somehow died in the dream world

How did that happen

@scenic surge

[scenic surge]

we don't have an answer

in fact that's something the game goes out to ask multiple times

[fresh rune]

Other instances?

[scenic surge]

"A God so strong... Yet erased so completely. How could it happen?"

"They say the old King died long ago, but his influence echoes around us still. A creature like that... what did he desire?"

[fresh rune]

Ok, how can other beings know that ghost is a vessel

Like grimm for example

Masterful! Even a vessel discarded bears fierce strength.
Fine craft dear Wyrm, and perfect tool to prolong the heart of Grimm

[scenic surge]

Well they all know of the Pale king

and being powerful creatures and all

[fresh rune]

Ok ok

[scenic surge]

grimm in specific is a higher being

and one that seemingly has world sense and given his whole deal

them knowing the knights nature makes sense

[fresh rune]

Grimm is a higher being or the nightmare heart is?

[scenic surge]

nightmare heart

but grimm is literally a vessel for the nightmare heart

a avatar?

they are basically the same person

[fresh rune]

Thats what I thought

But not same person

Like the heart influences grimm, like the other troupe members

But grimm's mask has a weaker effect on him or the heart being in him makes grimm's identity shallow

[scenic surge]

no grimm is BASICALLY just the nightmare heart

basically the same

anyhow

[fresh rune]

Then why does he wear a mask

He wears a mask of the troupe

If he was the nightmare heart he wouldnt need a mask for he already has an identity of a higher being

Or he doesnr where a mask but everyone else wheres one designed off his face which gives the nightmare heart influence on them

[scenic surge]

you realize grimm child is literally just a child version of the grimm we meet

and has the same face right

[fresh rune]

Yes

[scenic surge]

well basically the same face

[fresh rune]

It is the mask

[fresh rune]

But a face that changes alot by how much nightmare fuel you added

It is a mask

And the fact that carefree melody has the same mask even tho it is in an area that has the troupe banished

And members of the troupe can just not wear the full mask

Divine for example

[hot lily]

it's not a mask

his face is unlike the Grimmkin

[fresh rune]

That would make divine special

[fading crane]

Perhaps all HBs have large-scale consciousness

[spring mulch]

I thought it was his kid?

[pure inlet]

Technically it’s his brother

It’s “child Grimm” not “Grimm’s child”

I mean they’re all pretty much the same being anyway

[turbid stratus]

He can open his mouth though

so either it's a very well made mask, or not a mask

[fading crane]

Where does this bridge lead?

[fading crane]

The entrance to Crystal Peak is slightly higher than the path of that door.

And plus there are a elevator

[loud crater]

Pretty sure it used to be a grand stair case down to the floor.

[split compass]

in my mind, it was a big crossing bridge to the Crystal Peak, but there were stairs and lifts alongside the bridge to reach lower areas (Dirtmouth, etc.)

[fading crane]

[tough jetty]

In that case with the bridge/developed city plan of some sort, why King's Pass? What's so important about it?

[lost crypt]

I believe it’s the only entrance to Hallownest, but I may be wrong

[tough jetty]

Why is it the way it is besides that

do they expect everyone to jump down a big hole

Hallownest is only for those with strong knees

[split compass]

the Crossroads are vast, there are probably all kinds of entrances and passages, stagways etc. connecting the outer regions and settlements of the kingdom like Dirtmouth and the surface to the kingdom proper

all roads flow to the city

[indigo wolf]

Why does the Knight take damage from the Void against the Radiance/Absolute Radiance?

Shouldn't they swim?

[pure inlet]

Canonically they should

I would say gameplay

But you could make up something like falling destabilizes your form in the dream realm and hurts you and the void just isn’t fast enough to save you

[hot lily]

...good question

[placid osprey]

Its probably like how the knight takes damage from the ||void in the abyss even after you fix the lighthouse||

[indigo wolf]

I might be a little slow but how is that related?

[placid osprey]

Uuuuuuuuuuhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh........... I dunno, I just thought cuz its the same substance? Maybe im the slow one😭

[indigo wolf]

It is, it just doesn't connect
The void in the abyss got neutralized due to the light and (from my understanding) bc the void was unstable, but the void from darker space still hurts the Knight.
My issue comes from when the Knight is fighting the Radiance, they have Void Heart and should be able to control the Void in the fight and swim in it (just like after coming back from the Birthplace)

[trail hemlock]

But then the clib would make no sanse
Its for the gameplay reasons

[indigo wolf]

Yes, it doesn't

[split compass]

don't think about it

[distant obsidian]

how did the bridge disappear then?
it cant have collapsed, there would be ruins all over dirtmouth if it did

[split compass]

there actually are chunks near the base of the cliff, and they have like bits of railing on them

maybe it collapsed a long time ago and the bugs of Dirtmouth cleared it away

the kingdom fell a long time ago, before Elderbug's generation

maybe there was a day of the Tragic Bridge Collapse before Elderbug was born

[distant obsidian]

oooh
ok this actually makes sense

kudos lol

[scenic surge]

" It's a hard trek now but in the kingdom's prime things were far simpler.
There's an old pass in the cliffs that once allowed easy access. The bridge up to it has long since crumbled away, and even without it, a huge door bars entry."

Elder bug speaks of the bridge

and states that it was meant to be an easy passage way to dirtmouth

[cunning hemlock]

Can someone explain the hollow knight lore in short cuz I just completed the game and I only learnt that there are higher beings of light or pale gods or something idk

[scenic surge]

._.

okay what do you know about hollow knight

that's my question

because I'm not sure how you would be capable of beating the game

without knowing more about it then just that

unless you were skipping the dialogue

and various lore tablets

[white tusk]

Watch mossbags absolute lore explanation it can't be short

[scenic surge]

ehhh

Ehhhhhhh

[loud crater]

I can explain Higher Beings in short.
Pale Beings, as in the Pale King and White Lady, are Higher Beings with a pale color and powerful glow representative of their main body color.
Essence Beings, as in the Radiance and Nightmare Heart, are Higher Beings that exists solely in the Dream Realm and have powers relating to Essence and its manipulation.
Higher Beings, this is the most common category and encompasses all variants like Essence and Pale Beings. Notable Higher Beings not prior mentioned is Unn and The Shade Lord/Lord of Shades.

[scenic surge]

hey horf can I be honest I never really felt like counting the shade lord as a higher being

idk how you feel about that

it's just that it's so different from everything else

and is literally just above everybody to such a extreme degree that counting it as one feels strange for whatever reason

[green pilot]

You might be onto something

[scenic surge]

More like I'm on something lol

[loud crater]

Highest Being.

[scenic surge]

Yes

Horf you genius

Highest being

[frank sand]

i thought pale beings were higher beings centered around soul, as GMS is called one, likely because silk is a form of soul.

[scenic surge]

well yeah

[loud crater]

They are but I was avoiding spoiling them.

[frank sand]

whoopsie

[scenic surge]

Yk I do think it's funny that the white lady just kinda exists

[river sierra]

So is The Radiance in a weakened state in the main game, or is Absolute Radiance just the godseeker really hyping her up?

Or have I interpreted the godseeker wrong

[loud crater]

I think Radiance is fairly weakened during her DNM fight.

I'm pretty sure she's just kinda amped up by the Godseekers in her ETV fight.

[river sierra]

Isn't The Shade Lord also exclusive to godhome?

[near sequoia]

Beyond her being trapped I dunno why she would be weakened

AbsRad is her "perfect state" in godseeker's words

Shade Lord would be similar

[loud crater]

Not necessarily exclusive, but its where it came into being(in that form specifically)

[tulip parrot]

I thought it was exclusive.

[loud crater]

Silksong end game spoilers:
||You see that form somewhere in Act3 for a brief moment.||

[tulip parrot]

Once, I was looking for him outside the godhome.

godhome

[river sierra]

||They don't actually take that form in the ending I don't believe||

[loud crater]

||The form appears for a moment. Mainly they do take a separate form, but it still appears.||

[near sequoia]

||it and the siblings are hallucinations and are more or less there to allude to both dream no more and embrace the void||

[river sierra]

||You're looking through the eyes of Hornet, it seemed more like a flashing memory to me||

||You don't see The Shade Lord outside of Hornet's eyes||

[river sierra]

||Because you see ghost's shade outside of Hornet's POV I don't necessarily think they're a hallucination, but idk ||

Hollow Knight is vague on purpose

[near sequoia]

||the shade is physically there, the siblings and shade lord are not||

[river sierra]

||Ohh that's what you were referring to||

||When you said "it" I thought you were talking about the shade in general||

[near sequoia]

oh yeah ic

[fading crane]

The Wyrm's metamorphosis into its king form caused its power to diminish?

[split compass]

maybe in physical terms

I don't know that there's any reason to think they lost any of their divine powers - foresight, etc.

[scenic surge]

no?

[scenic surge]

The reason the shrumals joined the pale king was fo his foresight so definitely not

[pure inlet]

He didn’t actually really do much in Wyrm form that we know of

Besides having foresight

His transformation was what created the beacon

So his other feats like moving WP were all his bug form

[split compass]

Mister Mushroom speaks of other wyrms enthralling bugs
though we don't get any details - do they all become kings and conjure beacons to uplift feral bugs? do some remain large and command naturally intelligent bugs?
who knows...

the Pale Wyrm is described as tunneling to the region, so I guess the Pale King lost their tunneling power

certainly it would take them longer in king form

he'd probably just get bugs to tunnel for him

[pure inlet]

Maybe uplifting bugs with the beacon was a relatively unique concept

We already see other aspects of PK’s rule drawing already sapient civilizations towards an alliance

Must be a bit harder if you don’t basically create them but it seems logical enough

[marble birch]

Ye. The Pale King is a force of logic and reasoning, harbinger of higher critical thinking and complex problem-solving. With his precognitive abilities, he was able to see ahead of the here and now and was able to plan in ways that otherwise wouldn’t be possible, which is why his reign had been so successful.

[hot lily]

i mean he's not the only entity who already had those cognitive traits

[marble birch]

Well true hut he more or less took the state of intellect and cognition in his people and elevated it to a higher form. This is how the City Bugs became so advanced and built this sprawling empire that spans most of the caverns. Hell they were in the process of making mining golems up in the Peaks.

[scenic surge]

only one not to screw up

[fading crane]

Idk, but I think this:

[rugged comet]

Seer - Bringing Essence - Returning with 2400 Essence

So much Essence... So bright.... You truly are the Wielder my tribe so long has dreamed of.
The folk of my tribe were born from a light. Light similar to Essence, similar to that powerful blade, though much brighter still.
They were content to bask in that light and honoured it... for a time.
But another light appeared in our world... A wyrm that took the form of a king.
How fickle my ancestors must have been. They forsook the light that spawned them. Turned their backs to it... Forgot it even.
And so this kingdom was born from that betrayal. But the memories of that ancient light still lingered, hush whispers of faith... Until all of Hallownest began to dream of that forgotten light.
Ah, but what's done is done. And so am I. The Wielder has at last appeared and I've held the memories of my tribe for long enough. It is time for us to be forgotten too.
Don't remember us, Wielder. Don't honour us. We do not deserve it...
Aahh... I'm sorry...
Light... Radiance...
I... remember you.

@nostor_10. used /npcs quest name: Seer category: Bringing Essence dialogue: Returning with 2400 Essence

[fading crane]

The moths forsook the Wyrms' light

[rugged comet]

Mister Mushroom - General - Dream Nailed

...Wyrms pull bugs into their thrall,
Till ages pass and kingdoms fall,
Caps and shells may fall to dust,
But Mr Mushroom readjusts...

@nostor_10. used /npcs wanderers name: Mister Mushroom category: General dialogue: Dream Nailed

[indigo venture]

The Moths Forsook Radiance's Light for the Wyrm's light

[signal marlin]

[fading crane]

Sorry!

[indigo venture]

Is this Suscat

[fading crane]

Correction: the moths follow the Wyrm's light

[fading crane]

Wyrms pull bugs into their thrall

So all wyrms can emit light?

For my, yes

Opinions?

[scenic surge]

the entire point of the pale king

is that he's unique as a pale wyrm

he's called as the pale wyrm

white wyrm

and kinglight

kind of the whole point of that

[indigo venture]

Wyrms just do kingdoms without the light

Or maybe the average Wyrm doesn't have the ability to grant higher thought like PK can, so they rely on luring already smart bugs into their kingdoms

[fading crane]

God-King
I love the PK's titles

[scenic surge]

exactly

agreed mega

[scenic surge]

probably both

[fading crane]

What I meant was that, apparently, wyrms use light to attract insects

For me, obviously

[scenic surge]

Nowhere was that suggested

that they use light

When

[fading crane]

Well, I tried...

Again

[ivory zenith]

She knows The Knight is voidborn or just about the shades in Hallownest in general?

[green pilot]

I think she's referring to the knight itself

The fight with Grimm is what they call a "dance"

[ivory zenith]

I know I know

I was curious if she knows the Void

[green pilot]

This could mean that the Grimm troupe is well aware of void and to some extent it's properties

[ivory zenith]

Grimm even knows Wyrm but what about Divine

[green pilot]

By the way that she says it she makes it sound like she understands the properties of void/voidborns

[green pilot]

She could have been around for when the troupe visited a kingdom that was more void involved

Doesn't seem too unlikely for them to find a kingdom like that

[ivory zenith]

mm mm

[green pilot]

Plus the troupe itself is the nightmare heart to some extent

[ivory zenith]

isn't the Heart like a puppetmaster to them

[green pilot]

And nightmare heart is similar to the radiance and she knows about void so it would t be far fetched at all to say that nightmare heart also knows about void

[green pilot]

White lady says "you may be all and one, clan and master"

Seems like they are in a sort of hivemind

[rugged comet]

White Lady - Grimm Troupe - Listening while wearing Grimmchild in its final phase

Your companion's eyes burn with a familiar flame... Success then for the scarlet heart, and irony, to use my spawn to grow its own.
I know you creature, and the form time shall bring. You may be all and one, clan and master, but this land shall never bear so foreign a king.

@tytuswer used /npcs misc name: White Lady category: Grimm Troupe dialogue: Listening while wearing Grimmchild in its final phase

[green pilot]

The Grimm child is both the master of the clan and the clan itself in some way. This would also probably mean that the heart is also itself the clan and master

And this would probably mean that the nightmare hearts knowledge would to some extent be transferred across the clan

[scenic surge]

yk I don't get hiveminds

[indigo venture]

I mean does anyone do

I doubt you could unless your part of one

[scenic surge]

no I mean they seem so inconsistent

[ivory zenith]

They basically know everything yk

[indigo venture]

Scarlet Eyes bullshit

[scenic surge]

some hiveminds it's just that their all part of one mind and controlled

[ivory zenith]

you're part of one

[indigo venture]

"Nightmare Binds All" and Shi'

[indigo venture]

Rejected my friend req
Nuh uh

[scenic surge]

where as other times it seems like they are all interconnected mind wise but have their own individuality and mind

[ivory zenith]

I lost the account

[scenic surge]

Like take the shrumals for example

they have their own dream nail dialogue and minds

but their also in a hivemind as a united mind

but they're still individuals

and it's not like with the infections hivemind or what's going on with the nightmare heart

Like I don't get it

like 'we as one"

"...Our mind as one..."

[ivory zenith]

WAIT I'VE NEVER SEEN THIS DIALOGUE, INCREDIBLE

[scenic surge]

"Strength in the shared self.
Strength in the mind united.
In every bug that would pass upon our roads,
only the melancholy of disparity"

Like wtf is going on with hte shrumals

I genuinely don't get it

[ivory zenith]

like Grimm and Brumm have different points of view

[rugged comet]

Grimm - Godmaster - Dream Nailed in Nightmare King Grimm Godhome fight

Gods... bound by ritual...
Deepest power... the Heart...
Scattered lands... Nightmare binds all...

@nostor_10. used /npcs quest name: Grimm category: Godmaster dialogue: Dream Nailed in Nightmare King Grimm Godhome fight

[split compass]

they're glorifying their group mind and trash-talking the bugs that don't have one
'melancholy of disparity' i.e. 'the bummer of having differences'

[scenic surge]

I'm aware

that's not what I was trying to say

[fading crane]

"Gods... bound by ritual..."
So Grimm called the bosses 'gods' to?

[scenic surge]

pretty sure he's referring to the radiance

[split compass]

it's as good a term as any for them

might as well use the Godseeker term, if you're in their house

(their home)

[fossil ferry]

Grimm called the other enemies gods because

boy

i don't fuckin know

[scenic surge]

listen I am not going to call a damn vengefly a god

Listen the moment a damn maggot can beat a god is the moment I think god loses it's meaning

[fossil ferry]

In the eyes of a vengefly, they should atleast be considered a king

[fading crane]

Radiance is a God
But Grimm say gods

[split compass]

he's just being polite
' you have a charming ritual'
'you have such lovely gods'

[fossil ferry]

do you mean the knight?

[scenic surge]

No I mean a maggot

[fossil ferry]

oh

right

[scenic surge]

because a regular maggot could a vengefly

[fossil ferry]

false knight

uhhh

boy i don't know

[scenic surge]

you can find a random statue in the backround in hall of gods with a regular vengefly

and a random bug bully

[fossil ferry]

well