hk-lore

[noble frigate]

is zote a vessel

[near wind]

No

[noble frigate]

what is he

[near wind]

I think hes just described as a wanderer

But he's from out of hallownest

So very unlikely to be a vessel

[noble frigate]

is he from pharloom

cause shelwood

[near wind]

Maybe

Don't really know

I have a really good theory about herra

[loud crater]

No.

[loud crater]

Hes a common Bug.

[noble frigate]

what may that be

[near wind]

You know how people say that herra looks very different than other weavers

[noble frigate]

yeah

dont pull the not pharlid

[near wind]

You know how she has the two horns under the cloak

[noble frigate]

yeah

[near wind]

What if it's herras actual mask and it looks like hornets

And she got the new mask when she became a dreamer

[noble frigate]

well all the dreamers have the special masks that arnt there actual mask

but why does she look like all the other weavers in other departmets shes bigger differentr head and all that stuff

[near wind]

Pretty much what people said before

Pharlid diver and giving birth i think

[royal summit]

She is the queen weaver

[noble frigate]

but shouldnt first sinner be cause she was made divine before all the others

[near wind]

Be what?

[noble frigate]

thats makes sense

be the queen weaver

[loud crater]

Herrah is queen Weaver because she married Deepnest's king.

[near wind]

I think she was just called the Queen cause she was the only one to give birth

Yeah

[noble frigate]

and who may that ve

[royal summit]

Who is that

[near wind]

And maybe the only one to be transcended from a pharlid diver

Idk

[royal summit]

She married the white king

[noble frigate]

pale king'

she didnt marry him

[loud crater]

She didnt marry the Pale King.

[royal summit]

I'm tired

[noble frigate]

it was a agreement to becoema dreamer

to have a child

[royal summit]

Ye she did to give birth to hornet

[near wind]

Also she's just the leader, queen could be just a title

[loud crater]

Unknown, but it may be the weird looking thing hanging from yhe ceiling in Beast's Den.

[royal summit]

Ok

[near wind]

It's called a shrine in the game files

[noble frigate]

maybe deepnests king was slimed out by herra when they coudlnt have child bevause spiders kill there mates when they mate

[near wind]

What species would the king be tho

And i guess the shrine could be a dead bug

[noble frigate]

could be a better species of those ones with the masks and you cant hit them until they hit you in beasts den

[near wind]

Maybe

?

[noble frigate]

that makes more sense

but we dont know what herra was like

[near wind]

I feel like she wouldn't have become a dreamer if she also did that

[noble frigate]

she only agreed to become a dreamer if the pale king could give her a child

[near wind]

Wait spider's kill when they mate

I don't know if they would do that even

Herra knows she probably couldn't have a child

I don't know how the pale king even managed to

It could be that he was a higher being or anything

[ruby lotus]

Unsubstantiated in Hollow Knight

There is nothing to indicate that Herrah couldn't have a child, that doesn't even make sense

Herrah wanted a child of Pale birth, as it would hopefully become a powerful leader for the waning Deepnest

[quartz tundra]

Okay so
The Dreamers hold the seal of the Black Egg which holds the Infection and Hollow Knight so the Knight is doing the Dream Nail thing in the Dreamers to open the Egg?
Seeing if I got that right

[ruby lotus]

The Dreamers exist only as a physical seal on the Black Egg, keeping the Hollow Knight safe from attackers

The Hollow Knight is the only thing doing anything to contain the infection

[quartz tundra]

Oh alright

[ruby lotus]

The Knight straight up destroys the spirit of the dreamers by dream nailing them

[quartz tundra]

Yeah trying to see if I got everything right
So far been going by environmental stuff

[ruby lotus]

It's a common misconception since in-game, killing one of the dreamers is a trigger for the crossroads to become infected

Canonically speaking though, that isn't a trigger

[near wind]

It is implied that weavers are pretty much unable of having children, or that it is extremely hard to because they were ascended by grandmother silk from mortal bugs

I think grandmother silk made them that way so they could never leave

Or it could just be a by-product if their ascension

[ivory zenith]

What was the thing of The Knight needs to sit on a bench in order to equip and remove charms?

[loud crater]

What?

[ivory zenith]

what's the logic there

the charms are too strong so he needs to relax smh

[loud crater]

Ok. They're just tricky to take on or off.

[ivory zenith]

even compass

[loud crater]

Yes, even compass.

[ivory zenith]

does Monomon's mask give Quirrel some wisdom he doesn't understand?

[loud crater]

It let's him retain higher thought outside of Hallownest.

[ivory zenith]

so that's the case

[wide glade]

very importan t lore queston do you think pale king was mpreg
my proof

1. wyrms make eggs
2. trees dont dont make eggs
   im open to sidcussion

[hidden flume]

chat

i have a theory

what if lightblood seeds (the oranged lifeblood seeds) are infected lifeblood, and infect peaple just like life blood

by ''going into their dreams'' the just seep into your brain (like lifeblood) and get you like that

theres some creatures that ''reproduce'' by injecting their eggs into other LIVE pray right?

take the situation: guy is sleeping - lightblood seed comes in, injecting itself into him - guy becomes infected

lifeblood infected creatures and radience infected creatures look and act very similar

[hot lily]

no

lifeblood seeds and infection seeds are different

[hidden flume]

how tho

[sweet shell]

lightblood seeds where created from the infected air which turned into water which turned into flesh which turned into lightblood seeds

that's what the journal says

[hidden flume]

???

WHERE?

im i dumb?

[sweet shell]

hunters journal

after u kill i think 16 of them u decifer the hunters note and it says that

[hidden flume]

ok, but they still act very similar

i checked rn its 20 kills

i dont have that cuz they are so rare

[sweet shell]

thaey spawn infinitly in the room next to the great husk centry in the infected crossroads

that's how i got them

top right

[hidden flume]

yea i see

is there an universe where both lifeblood and lightblood seeds spawn the same way?

genuine question

[sweet shell]

wdym?

[scenic surge]

"Strange air has been seeping down from above since long ago. Some of the air became liquid, and some of that liquid became flesh, and some of that flesh came to life."

[hidden flume]

like that

[scenic surge]

heavily implied their just some weird manifestations of the infection

or just quite literal singular cells

[hidden flume]

air into lifeblood as well

[scenic surge]

no

that's never said or implied

wdym

there ain't no lifeblood gas

lifeblood is a substance

what happened in wormways

[hidden flume]

in there ANYWHERE where it says how does lifeblood apear or does it just exist

[sweet shell]

ik from silksong that lifeblood comes from some sorta plant

[scenic surge]

a plant

they literally are parasitic plants

with some believing it being tied to a higher being

[hidden flume]

im thinking of how the plant apears but i guess i forgot that

[scenic surge]

it was a taboo and heretical substance in hollow knight

[hidden flume]

maybe just like the radience?

[scenic surge]

it's not the radiance

[hidden flume]

i get that

i guess im stupid

thanks tho

[wind osprey]

What do you think guys, who was the pire vessel or there isnt none?

[hot lily]

what do you mean by that

[wide glade]

there's no pure vessel

[quiet citrus]

True

So do we all agree that the Pale King was lowk unncessary,like i think he caused more harm than good in the end

[tawny crag]

Pure vessel was what the hollow knight was supposed to be

[wide glade]

idk it was either everyone dies or there's 0.0001% that everyone lives and pk went with the latter

[quiet citrus]

The closest we got is little ghost but i believe he wasn't pure

[tawny crag]

Honestly the relationship between pk and radiance is like walter white and gus fring from breaking bad

[wind osprey]

Same. The ghost were learning what we were

[wind osprey]

But didnt happened right?

[wind osprey]

Kinda a true i guess

[tawny crag]

Pk didn't have bad intentions but radiance's ego got her to infect the shit out of hallownest

[tawny crag]

Nah

[quiet citrus]

I didn't watch brb lol

[wind osprey]

No cost too great

[tawny crag]

After completing pop theres a cutscene which shows that hk developed a fatherly affection for pk

[quiet citrus]

PK came with a desire to rule,he knew there were local gods,also i believe the enlightment of all bugs was unnecessary

[quiet citrus]

No mind to think

[wind osprey]

Whoch hk? Little or big?

[wind osprey]

Made of void

[tawny crag]

Theres only one hk the hollow knight the big one the small one is the knight

[wind osprey]

Hollow=depression, aye?

[quiet citrus]

Born of God and Void*

[wide glade]

I think all vessels by default are not pure because siblings are called "lingering will" and that already made them faulty. Which i think is because void isn't nothingness at all, but the accumulated regrets of dead bugs, jiji or idk her name calls your shade that.

[wind osprey]

Oh yeah right

[wind osprey]

So the big one got affection of father

[tawny crag]

Ye it was unnecessary for sure

[tawny crag]

Yess

And to be a pure vessel you need to be hollow internally and emotionally

[wind osprey]

Oh lol

Pk didnt understood

[hot lily]

vessel purity requirements are not necessarily meant to be read at face value

[wind osprey]

What cluld be another way to beat radiance for pk?

[tawny crag]

Make an agreement with void imo

[wind osprey]

Concept of jiji is unclear

Yeah like slash the radiance ilk give you....

[tawny crag]

Cuz radiance is technically immortal the only way the little knight got her killed was that she was absorbed into void and that makes void the only being who can kill radiance

[wide glade]

hunter journal's entry then: "Each of us leaves an imprint of something when we die. A stain on the world. I don't know how much longer this kingdom can bear the weight of so many past lives..."

[wind osprey]

Technically pk is right

Radiance is a she. Wow

[quiet citrus]

Ikr

[tawny crag]

Not a baddie tho 💔

[quiet citrus]

Kill it

[wind osprey]

Damn

[tawny crag]

Radiance is immortal

The only way to kill her is void

[wind osprey]

Lol why someone can exoect that. People already make hornet a waifu and made relarion between silksong and lace

[wind osprey]

But how?

[tawny crag]

What if hallownest was ruled by the mantis lords instead of pk

I mean the mantis tribe was a fairly sentient one

[indigo venture]

Making everyone forget them

[hot lily]

Radiance only dies to unified Void

[indigo venture]

Not really death, but, yk

[wind osprey]

So, the vess in greenpath also could bring his shade?

[indigo venture]

"The only death that matters"

[tawny crag]

yEAH

[indigo venture]

Whats the topic here

[wind osprey]

I started and i forgot

Yeah

Pure vessel

[tawny crag]

Also cmon man pk was a fucking wyrm that mf must have had rlly op powers so couldnt he boost the morale and willpower of the bugs in hallownest

[indigo venture]

Wouldnt really matter

Not stated they had said powers either

[wide glade]

wdym by that? green paths vessel's shade probably went back to the abyss or was destroyes we dont know for sure

[indigo venture]

Seems like a reach

[indigo venture]

As far as we know Shades cant really "Die" by any means

Other than Radiance itd seem

They only lose their form

Which they can just retake eventually

[wide glade]

destroyed or maybe scattered, i didnt say die

[quiet citrus]

I see Unn as a rightfull leader

[wind osprey]

I noticed pne think.
Why we keep going to shade and take it but other vessels couldn't.

(Ik this a dumb quesrion)

[indigo venture]

"Destroyed", I assumed

[quiet citrus]

Exactly,a pact with the Void

[indigo venture]

Same applies to destroying regardless

[tawny crag]

The characters rad couldnt infect had incredible willpower or devotion to smth like look at hornet or the entire mantis tribe or menderbug vro was devoted to mending signs

[wide glade]

i think its a game mechanic

[indigo venture]

Devotion is irrelevant

[tawny crag]

Unn is good too

[indigo venture]

Willpower isnt

[wind osprey]

Yeah tbat it fine.right.

[indigo venture]

Willpower is the only thing that matters here, and had Pale King had the ability to effectively make his kingdom immune for a long ass time, He would have

[wind osprey]

Or like, something calling. Or maybe some made of tbat way by void

[indigo venture]

Respawning isnt canon

[wind osprey]

Aaaamm

[wide glade]

there's a theory that both hornet and little ghost have pk foresight so they can see how they die and that's what respawning mechanic is

[indigo venture]

Doesnt make sense

[wind osprey]

Woah

[wide glade]

like they're seeing a possible future where they die

[wide glade]

why not

[indigo venture]

Not confirmed they have it

[hot lily]

respawning isn't canon

[indigo venture]

If you die, and had moved a stag, stag stays there

[wide glade]

yeah its calles a theory

[indigo venture]

A theory which doesnt make sense

[hot lily]

theories require evidence

[indigo venture]

And has little evidence yes

[hot lily]

which you don't have

[wide glade]

lmao ok. its not mine i just think its neat

[wind osprey]

Ok so basically, my opinion is, void knew how to let a knight come to the kingdom and went for that vessel

[indigo venture]

The call wasnt from the void

[hot lily]

what do you mean by this

[wide glade]

as a headcanon i did not claim it has good evidence

[indigo venture]

It was either from Radiance or The Hollow Knight

[indigo venture]

Specify its a headcanon then

[hot lily]

correct

dreamers say it outright

[wind osprey]

So it is like influence of scream?

[indigo venture]

?

[wind osprey]

:)

[hot lily]

it's either the Radiance scream, or by THK itself

[wind osprey]

The voice of screaming is radiance's. So thk scream is radiance scream

[quiet citrus]

So we all agree a snail shaman-moth hybrid would be unstopable right?

[wind osprey]

What is that now?

[hot lily]

note that I did not say that THK screamed

[wind osprey]

By shaman i doubt thag shaman came from crystal peak

[wind osprey]

Yeah got it

[quiet citrus]

Shamans are from Pharloom i think

[wind osprey]

So no one is pure vessel it is clear. But how little knight came is question

[hot lily]

not necessarily

we don't know where they came from but it wasn't the Abyss

[wind osprey]

I meant the guy in dirthnouth gave vengeful spirit

Cause if you go to crystalline mound in crystal peak you may see same structure

Of ancestral mound

[quiet citrus]

I see them being from pharloom more,or js a migratory tribe

[hot lily]

they never imply that they're from Pharloom

[quiet citrus]

I never said that

[wind osprey]

I now noticed you hsed nine soul photo. I can choose difficulty rigbt?

[quiet citrus]

Story mode or standart mode,story mode lets u modify things

Standart is the main difficulty

[wind osprey]

I wanted to finish fast

[quiet citrus]

U get an achievment for standart difficulty

[wind osprey]

Then go for silksong actually. I forgot another one

Oh, ori

[quiet citrus]

Tbh if i think abt it

They know abt the everbloom

So they could aswell be from hallownest

[wide glade]

everbloom isnt from hallownest

[quiet citrus]

Aren't they from some typo distant land or idk

Idk they're js connected to hallowjest in the way that they are present there that's what i mean

[split compass]

'hollow jest' is what kingdom haters call Hallownest

then they laugh and hive-five each other

[quiet citrus]

Brought by the grey mourner,like one of pale kings 5 guards or whateva they we re called

It's been a while since i played

I'm trying to remember

[quiet citrus]

Oh yeah its from lands serene

Brought by ze'mer(grey mourner)

Wiki is a saver

[tawny crag]

The starting cutscene I believe the call was from hollow knight

Technically void is prolly the most powerful entity iin the 1st game

Wish they explored the void and its origin more

[quiet citrus]

It was defo the HK calling out other vessels

Since his reason to exist was to seal the radiance

When he saw he was failing he did a last call for help

[quiet citrus]

I believe it was always there

It's js void

[scenic surge]

????????

[scenic surge]

no?

[scenic surge]

you can't make an agreement with the void

it's literally classified a ton as having no will or mind

it's powerful sure but scattered

and does have emptying properties

[scenic surge]

and he was able to co exist with all of tehm other then the radiance

and the game blames the moths for what happened not the pale king

[scenic surge]

there's two interpretations either that the white lady was right and the hollow knight was ONCE a pure vessel but had it's pure state tarnished by the pale kings bond with it or that the Pure vessel was impure from the get go

[wide glade]

that's my opinion but yeah up to interpretation.

[wide glade]

.

[quiet citrus]

Yo i already corrected myself on that

Been a while since i re searched abt shamans

[quiet citrus]

Still,when u come uninvited u gotta expect problems yl

Yl*

Yk*

[scenic surge]

there weren't problenms for ages

[quiet citrus]

I still see what he did in hallownest as unnecessary

[scenic surge]

his kingdom was doing great

[scenic surge]

everybody in hallownest loves him

and calls him a great king

he did not cause any harm to the other tribes

and his kingdom become recognised and well known beyond hallownest

idk what you're talking about

[quiet citrus]

His actions indirectly did,while he did get hallownest to his peak he made it worse than beforr

Before*

And he made tons of kids

And didn't care abt em

As i said i still find unnecessary for him to enlighten local primitive bugs

And idk if I was him i'd just tell the moths to like go remind themselves of their old god

Like i think there was a way to prevent this war and the genoicide of tons of vessels

He enlighted allot of bugs just to radically kill others

Was he really a great thing if he couldn't beat another higher being?A good king protects his people

[hot lily]

it's not PK's fault that the Moths forgot Radiance

[quiet citrus]

It's not but there were better ways to handle it

[hot lily]

no? he's not responsible for their betrayal

they did it willingly

[quiet citrus]

A good king doesn't only make his kingdom a good place to live in,he also needs to protect it, and to protect his kingdom he killed lots and lots of vessels

[quiet citrus]

As I said he couldve thought of something better,maybe idk offering to the radiance to please it,he's a higher being,he should king off have an idea of what other higher beings think

[hot lily]

he had literally no other option

he tried everything before resorting to the Vessels

[quiet citrus]

I'm not saying the radiance is the good girl here,she was a bih too

[hot lily]

again the Moths are not his responsibility

they willingly defected to him

he also left Unn alone and allowed her to retain her sovereignty over Greenpath

[quiet citrus]

They are,if they willingly chose to follow him they are his responsability in his kingdom,why couldn't he find a method to please the radiance instead of fighting it

[quiet citrus]

That's good tho i like that

[hot lily]

Radiance should have focused her anger and attacks on the Moths themselves for betraying them, not everyone else

for fuck's sake he left alone evidence of Radiance's existence at Hallownest's Crown that's still standing

[quiet citrus]

The radiance didn't see the moths as the fault there

[hot lily]

irrelevant

the fact of the matter is that the Moths betrayed Radiance, and that Radiance has no right to attack people who were either completely unaware of their existence, were not even natives of the region, or both

[quiet citrus]

I still think he couldve honorated the radiance better,a simple ceremony to "thank u for letting me inhabit here" and some offerings wouldve of rezolved it

[hot lily]

unlikely, considering again, there's a literal statue of Radiance in Hallownest's Crown that's still standing by the time the game takes place

[quiet citrus]

Also if the radiance focused on the moths the PK should still get in the war,because they were part of his kingdom

[quiet citrus]

Who's gonna make the trip to the top to see it bro

[hot lily]

i'm not sure what you're trying to achieve here

[quiet citrus]

She quite litterilly does,it's her land,she couldve handled it better but it was still her land

[hot lily]

we have no idea what land Radiance originally controlled

it certainly wasn't all of the kingdom given that there were other tribes such as the Hive which were there prior to PK's arrival

[quiet citrus]

Me neither bro,i'm js saying i don't find pale kings actions in hallownest as necessary,the sentient bugs were mostly happy

[hot lily]

PK's actions were necessary to him because he exhausted all other options before resorting to Vessels

[quiet citrus]

I mean his actions of coming to hallownest in the first place

[hot lily]

so you're once again shoving the blame onto PK despite Seer outright stating that the Moths are at fault for the Infection

this is getting annoying

[quiet citrus]

He quite litterilly killed hundreads if not thousand of his kids,enlighten others just to kill others?Why couldn't he protect his kingdom?If a kingdom is facing despair you do not blame the attacker you blame the king for not protecting it because conflict is inevitable to happen

[near sequoia]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trolley_problem

[near sequoia]

Also is this ragebait

[near sequoia]

Kingdoms dying is inevitable that's kinda the main theme of the game so it makes no sense to say its a moral failing

[split compass]

should've made a Lord of Shades instead, stupid!

[quiet citrus]

Every kingdom falls,thats invevitable,but i'm saying the pk is more to blame here than the radiance

[hot lily]

blatantly false

[quiet citrus]

It's js my opinion dude

[hot lily]

and opinions can be wrong, not an argument

[near sequoia]

The kingdom fell to the infection which The Radiance made instead of the Pale King so its her fault its not that deep

[quiet citrus]

Both are to blame tho,i find what the radiance did childlish

[near sequoia]

Radiance started like torturing and killing people and everything PK did was in response to that and nothing he could've done would've really stopped her

[quiet citrus]

I still feel like more deaths would be prevented of the king didn't intervene in hallownest

[hot lily]

PK showing up to Hallownest was not what caused the Infection, that was the Moths betraying Rad

[near sequoia]

Sure but at that point you just take issue with the idea of building a kingdom and essentially creating new consciousnesses

[hot lily]

again you've been continuously ignoring the words of Seer

[quiet citrus]

U can't defeat fire with fire,as i said maybe some ceremonies to cherish her wouldve pleased her,thats what she wanted,to not be forgotten

[hot lily]

what the hell do you think the Moths were doing during the decline of their tribe

[near sequoia]

Is that actually your takeaway from the game

[quiet citrus]

I don't remark what she said exactly,enlighten me

[hot lily]

fuck it I might as well quote Seer verbatim

[quiet citrus]

Its been a while

[near sequoia]

"Yeah PK would've stopped the metaphor for time and nature that was about to kill his entire kingdom with a few kind ceremonies"

[rugged comet]

Seer - Bringing Essence - Returning with 2400 Essence

So much Essence... So bright.... You truly are the Wielder my tribe so long has dreamed of.
The folk of my tribe were born from a light. Light similar to Essence, similar to that powerful blade, though much brighter still.
They were content to bask in that light and honoured it... for a time.
But another light appeared in our world... A wyrm that took the form of a king.
How fickle my ancestors must have been. They forsook the light that spawned them. Turned their backs to it... Forgot it even.
And so this kingdom was born from that betrayal. But the memories of that ancient light still lingered, hush whispers of faith... Until all of Hallownest began to dream of that forgotten light.
Ah, but what's done is done. And so am I. The Wielder has at last appeared and I've held the memories of my tribe for long enough. It is time for us to be forgotten too.
Don't remember us, Wielder. Don't honour us. We do not deserve it...
Aahh... I'm sorry...
Light... Radiance...
I... remember you.

@serrara_m used /npcs quest name: Seer category: Bringing Essence dialogue: Returning with 2400 Essence

[near sequoia]

... how much longer... KILL IT... how much longer... DANGEROUS... how much longer... KILL IT... how much longer... KILL THE EMPTY ONE...

...how much longer... must I dig...?
these are her orders to Myla and this is her dream nail dialogue

...ANCIENT ENEMY...
...I DO NOT FEAR YOU...
...LET ME BE FREE...
...I WILL NOT BE FORGOTTEN...
...DAWN WILL BREAK...
...THE LIGHT CANNOT BE CONSUMED...

she's literally insane and its kinda bizarre to assume PK could've reasoned with her but didn't

[quiet citrus]

I find it better,or i wouldve js given up my kingdom if that meant less people dying

[near sequoia]

The goal was to minimize the amount of deaths

[quiet citrus]

Wow,great job at that

[quiet citrus]

I already said she was acting childish

[near sequoia]

He failed yeah but the point is that he couldn't have done anything better

In any case even if you wanted to do something different it doesn't mean he was at fault for the kingdom's death

If he did something different the kingdom still would've died he was up against an impossible task

[hot lily]

"They were content to bask in that light and honoured it... for a time."
(Moths were worshiping Radiance before PK arrived)

"But another light appeared in our world... A wyrm that took the form of a king. How fickle my ancestors must have been. They forsook the light that spawned them. Turned their backs to it... Forgot it even. And so this kingdom was born from that betrayal."
(PK arrived, Moths willfully defected to PK with no consideration as to Radiance's mental state or opinion on the matter)

"But the memories of that ancient light still lingered, hush whispers of faith... Until all of Hallownest began to dream of that forgotten light."
(Radiance attacks everyone in retaliation in the form of the Infection, despite the fact there were still people around who were still worshiping them)

[quiet citrus]

Kind off

Yeah good poiny

Point*

[hot lily]

the 3rd of these is the most damning

Radiance was still being remembered and worshiped by people, and yet they still attacked people regardless

[quiet citrus]

I still find his radicalized act as unncessary, it wouldve been better to let the kingdom fall and js let the radiance comr back as a main god

But in that case where he was desperate

I can see his thinking

[near sequoia]

Well that's with the hindsight of the plan not working

[hot lily]

...and let the Infection destroy the minds of everyone who were vulnerable to it?

[quiet citrus]

I still think hallownest wouldve ended better without him in the end

[hot lily]

again that's not a reasonable argument

stop shoving the blame onto someone who is not at fault

[near sequoia]

He made Hallownest and the majority of bugs in it (by making them sapient)

The region at large sure though (but that's kinda out of his control)

[quiet citrus]

I think if he reminded people of the radiance there was a mild chance she would stop,i would take that mild chance,thats a chance were maybe more people wouldve lived

[hot lily]

he likely did, and there's no evidence to suggest he suppressed or otherwise destroyed evidence of Radiance's existence

[near sequoia]

radiance was just like completely evil and kinda beyond reason the point is kinda that she's a destructive force of nature/time (with multiple NPCs literally calling her nature and PK calling her time hence the sun imagery)

and Monomon talking about stasis yada yada

[hot lily]

i wouldn't go so far as to call Radiance evil from the beginning, but certainly by the time of the first wave

[quiet citrus]

"Likely" this is based on probably,as my answer is too,i think there's just how u view it

Yeah ok,the radiance couldnt have been stopped then

Him killing so many vessels was a delusional attempt

I feel in that scenario,if he let his kingdom fall,less bugs wouldve suffered

Because of his act the bugs are corrupted and the vessels are dead

He double killed

But i see his desperate attempt tho,i see your vision

He was doomed by the radiance,he couldnt do anything,and by trying he made it worse

Yeah i can understand that

Your saying the pk wasn't at fault right?

I can partly agree with that,yeah

But i still think his final act caused even more harm

[dusky dune]

Well yea i assume probably a lot of bugs died because of de-infection. Like in bellheart when they were freed

[quiet citrus]

Yeah i can kinda agree with that, well @hot lily @near sequoia thanks for sending me the dialogues

[quiet citrus]

It was nice to read em again

[trail harbor]

who is the the friend of jinn?

jinn is the girl that replaces the confessor jiji in steel soul mode

[quiet citrus]

Wdym friend

[indigo venture]

Jiji

They both exist in both modes

Jinn is getting Eggs for Jiji

[rugged comet]

Godseeker - Pantheon of Hallownest - Unn Dream Nailed

Sleeping God, to see thee as thou once existed, with land and dream and devotion, We would give our mind...

@nostor_10. used /npcs quest name: Godseeker category: Pantheon of Hallownest dialogue: Unn Dream Nailed

Godseeker - Pantheon of Hallownest - White Lady Encounter

O tragedy! This majestic god evades Our attunement with such ease.
We live only to serve the gods, to seek them out. Why does she frustrate Us? How does she hide from Us? Does she diminish herself by choice?

@nostor_10. used /npcs quest name: Godseeker category: Pantheon of Hallownest dialogue: White Lady Encounter

[fading crane]

Why does Godseeker sometimes use the word 'god' with an initial capital letter and other times with a lowercase letter?

[split compass]

in this case, it seems like it might be due to 'Sleeping God' being something like a proper name or title

[fading crane]

Mm...
Let me see one thing

[rugged comet]

Godseeker - Pantheon of the Knight - First Encounter

Show reverence, o meagre one. Show fear! Thou approacheth a great and terrible God.
Though its worldly body be bound and defiled, the glory of its pure form endures, ruler of this pantheon. Its endless power shall attune Us to the one greater still, a God of Gods!
Meagre one, dost thou imagine thyself the equal of this God? Dost thou imagine thyself made in its image? Thou assume a similar shape, and the deep echo within thee seems familiar...
Ahh! What thoughts are these? Thou sow blasphemies in Our mind, wretch! Begone! We pray that the God of nothingness silence thee forever!

@nostor_10. used /npcs quest name: Godseeker category: Pantheon of the Knight dialogue: First Encounter

[fading crane]

And what about "terrible God"?

[indigo venture]

GS just fearing Void beings in general?

GS just hating THK for keeping her away from "The God of Gods"

I dunno'

[rugged comet]

Godseeker - Pantheon of the Sage - Exhausted dialogue

Dost thou understand Our words? Will thee allow thyself to be destroyed by the God of this pantheon? Will thee allow Us to resume Our sacred attunement?

@nostor_10. used /npcs quest name: Godseeker category: Pantheon of the Sage dialogue: Exhausted dialogue

[fading crane]

No, because he also calls Sly "God" with a capital G.

[indigo venture]

Oh I was referring to the terrible part

I didn't know you meant the Capital "G" or just "g" thing

[fading crane]

.

[fading crane]

I mean that the GS sometimes uses "god" with a lowercase g and other times with an uppercase g

[indigo venture]

I know

That's what I said

[fading crane]

I think I've just discovered the reason.

Oh, wait a minute...

No, don't listen to me.

Okay, I'd better just say it.

[fading crane]

I believe the GS uses a capital G when referring to the chief god of a pantheon or a HB

With the WL, she doesn't do that because she's reducing her power so much that even the GS doubts whether she's a HB or not.

[rugged comet]

Godseeker - Pantheon of Hallownest - White Lady Dream Nailed

Pale mother... We barely dare to think. The chance of meeting is too rare.... but thine resonance! Could you be one of Them?

@nostor_10. used /npcs quest name: Godseeker category: Pantheon of Hallownest dialogue: White Lady Dream Nailed

[split compass]

well, then it's just inconsistency

[fading crane]

I have an speculation here if you want to read it

[indigo wolf]

Is there a lore reason the Collector isn't affected by Void Heart?

[loud crater]

It has a will imprinted on it.

[indigo wolf]

So you can't "overwill" it?

[loud crater]

Well you probably can, but TK never tries to.

If it wanted to it probably could.

[indigo wolf]

Oh

[split compass]

I would think that it can't - same reason Void Heart doesn't work on Kingsmoulds or the Hollow Knight itself
they're too much their own entities for their will to fall under TK's like the rest of the unfocused Void

[indigo wolf]

For Kingsmoulds, I always imagined that it was because they're not "real" when we encounter them, since they're from the Dream Realm and they just follow orders if you get what I mean

And THK has the literal Radiance inside them soooo

[loud crater]

ETV it doesnt but is still its own entity.

[indigo wolf]

ET.. what?

[loud crater]

Embrace the Void.

GodHome ending.

[split compass]

the White Palace is in the dream realm but it was the actual White Palace from the waking world, it was just moved into the dream realm
so all the Kingsmoulds in it should be real ones that were once in the waking world also

[indigo wolf]

Shade Lord, I mean kinda?

[loud crater]

Shade Lord is just an amped up version of Lord of Shades.

[split compass]

also yea Horf is right - all the Void and siblings were seemingly called to TK and merged to become the Void Given Focus, but THK's shade stayed behind in their shell

it does what it wants

[indigo wolf]

The whole "moving to the Dream Realm" is kinda weird in itself so, it might have a play in all of it

[loud crater]

I have the feeling that if TK really, really wanted THK's shade to be brought under its own will, it could force it. But TK neither wants nor needs to do so.

[indigo wolf]

Ok true

[split compass]

I believe
really, the same principle that keeps the Collector out of the Void Heart's control would be at work with the other Void entities it doesn't work on

[split compass]

Collector: Ooohaahahaha~!! throws jars
TK: This is fine.

[loud crater]

TK is just planning on killing him anyways.

[split compass]

TK is a stone-cold killer

[indigo wolf]

Maybe TK isn't that good at controlling void and the two Radiance fights ending where just "luck"

Like they tried and it worked and now it's all fine

[split compass]

looks at ||silksong||
maybe

[indigo wolf]

Didn't finish it

[split compass]

oh nooo...

[loud crater]

Its under TK's will so I'm inclined to not think so.

[indigo wolf]

I already spoiled myself so you're fine

[indigo wolf]

I mean, they control it but not perfectly, like they just got it

[unique swift]

Where’s the radiance even from though?

[wicked nest]

Wherever the other moths came from

[trim ridge]

My theory is like the godworm but it didnt lose its form

[split compass]

not even - the moths came from her dreams

[wicked nest]

Oh yeahhhh

[split compass]

we really don't know where she came from, as far as we know she's always been in the dream realm

[wicked nest]

Maybe she came from the earth like how Greek myth gia J's made the gods

[split compass]

we don't know where any of these god freaks came from

[wicked nest]

Does the lore tell us how the god seekers original god died?

[split compass]

nope!

[wicked nest]

Dang

[split compass]

the game doesn't tell us shit

[trim ridge]

Hear me out, radiance is the other form of godseeker's original god

[wicked nest]

Well my official bllk fan 67 theory is that the GOAT zote killed them

[trim ridge]

After all zote is the strongest in hallownest

[wicked nest]

Exactly

His nail is the sharpest and most durable

Wait how tall is the lifeblood deity that shows up like twice

[hot lily]

no

[trim ridge]

ik not true but like i think it would be cool

[tawny crag]

Vro gpz is brettas imagination

The real zote is a weak fuck

Btw is grimm somehow in love with divine ?

Like why tf is divine even with the grimm troupe

I can't understand that

[trail hemlock]

Why is brimm there? Why is anybody there?
Becouse they put masks on and joined the troupe
Divines mask is broken so she has more free will then others
She just is a part of the troupe, like everybody alse

[strange patio]

That somehow self sustains after she leaves

[cold latch]

How do I put if the spoiler warning stuff

hi

No

Uhh

“”this?””

No

[strange patio]

|| this on either side

[cold latch]

||why isn’t the player the hollow knight if they are hollow and the hollow knight isn’t hollow?||

[civic python]

||thk was named thk because the pale king thought he was hollow,we also arent truly hollow though since we have a will said in the description of the voidheart charm and spoiler for the ending of silksong -> || ||the ending of act 3 of silksong shows the knight saving hornet||

[river dust]

In the battle at the black egg , is ||big bro stabbing himself because he's actually fighting control from the radiance and helping ghost win? or is that supposedly releasing more infection||

[civic python]

the first option iirc the infection coming out is just a side effect of it

[river dust]

family

[green pilot]

I think he's trying to help out. The spot that he is stabbing is a blob of infection so maybe he's specifically targeting the radiance

[noble frigate]

its because in his moments of actual recognition or gaining concioucs he realises whats happening so he helps out the knight because he isnt hollow and has feelings and is sacrifisng himslef to stop the radiance

[tawny crag]

Ohh actually the grimm lore isnt much clear to me thats why

[scenic surge]

tf he was he supposed to do

[scenic surge]

......So what you're trying to tell me is that it would be better for him to leave his kingdom

and doom millions upon millions of people

to the infection

that's worse

that is actively worse

[scenic surge]

??????????

My guy she did not care in the slightest

if people started doing ceremonies

hell the bugs in hallownest literally did do prayers and ceremonies in hopes of not being infected

THE TRAITOR MANTISES willingly embraced the infection

and still got enslaved by it

and had their minds be lost

[quiet citrus]

No i was saying it would be better in the end if he didnt come to hallownest at all

Also him trying to save it resulted in more deaths

But bro the convo ended a day ago you re dragging it🥀

[scenic surge]

because I wanted to engage in it stil

[quiet citrus]

I agreed that it was entirely the pale kings fault for the infection

I agree he really couldnt controll that

I'm just saying,him not coming to hallownest would result in less deaths

[scenic surge]

how was it the pale kings fault other then him existing

in the area

[quiet citrus]

I said it wasn't his fault gah damn bro,i said "not entirely" because him coming to hallownest lowk indirectly did that

But yes i agree it wasn't his fault the radiance went crazy

[quiet citrus]

Out of his hand

[quiet citrus]

The radiance most likely couldn't have been convinced and it's more obvious now,she wanted revenge

And i agree the pale king tried his best

But he got more deaths in doing so

[trail hemlock]

Here youre saying that its pale kings fault

[noble frigate]

What

How is it the pale kings fault

[loud crater]

The PK did absolutely fucking nothing bur exist near the Moths, who abandoned their creator Higher Being mind you, who then began to worship him. Its the Moths fault, not the PK's.

[quiet citrus]

Yall blidn ash

Blind*

[quiet citrus]

.

[sand stump]

I mean, if he didn't build the stags and didn't make the tramways the Radiance wouldn't have fallen for the Rage bait
Because let's all remember that the moths left after seeing the freedom and beauty of capitalism under PK

[loud crater]

My brother in Void you said this shit and are expecting people to just ignore it.

[sand stump]

Okay I just read up and this guy is saying it's not PKs fault but also is entirely his fault
Am I getting this right?

Because the Radiance literally only went crazy because the dumb ahh moths basically decided "Yeah let's abandon our Creator who can manipulate dreams for this other bright light"

And in this case the infection also falls on the Moths, because the infection came from the Radiance and was only a thing because she was abandoned and thus it would be entirely the Moths fault

[sand stump]

None of this falls on PK except for the Moths being stupid

[quiet citrus]

I js said other things like 3 messages after that

[quiet citrus]

What i mean as of now is the Pale King is not responsible for the radiance going crazy,but i believe his actions of trying to stop it caused even more casulaties,even tho he tried his best,and if he didn't come to hallownest there would be less bugs dead

That's it

[sand stump]

This is like saying "If humans never evolved, WW2 never would've happened"😭😭😭
If PK never came to Hallownest the vast majority would never have developed a sapient mind in the slightest and would've remained animalistic. So yeah very obviously if he never came then less bugs would've died, but much much less bugs would've lived either

[sand stump]

In Hallownest they wouldn't have developed, they most likely would still exist in other regions unless Pale King is some cornerstone event in the world's development for whatever reason

[sand stump]

Pale Kings arrival gave pure opportunity and life to many many bugs, quite possibly more than he killed in the process of developing a Vessel
And even then, the Vessels never truly died as they imprinted into the Void creating shades and thus creating a living creature.

The Infection was a consequence of the disloyalty of Radiant followers. Not a consequence of the Pale Kings arrival

[quiet citrus]

I think there were enough sapient tribes,the bugs he gave a mind to where primal,but most of the tribes we know of,moths,shamans,mosskin,weavers,mantises,hive were sapient but sure i see your point

[quiet citrus]

It wasn't his fault yes

[quiet citrus]

Less bugs living because he didn't arrive is subjectively better than living and then dying

[loud crater]

Ngl thats kinda fucked up.

[scenic surge]

He literally created a kingdom

that lasted for many ages

with so many bug generations passing

that those who started off in the kingdom being considered long distant ancestors

additionally he created one of the most legendary and succesfull kingdoms out there

that it constantly had tourists, adventurers and pilgrims coming to the place

to seemingly a larger extent then pharloom

that even now after the kingdoms demise

many still come to see the kingdom many in the hollow knight universe deem a fairytale of sorts

and it was so grand that every high power recognises the king and the kingdom

if that's pharloom, lands serene, land of storms, city of steel

all of them know of the pale king and the king

his kingdom was one that permanently left a mark on the hollow knight universe

that his memory and his kingdom are still well remembered across the wastes and beyond

[quiet citrus]

His kingdom was good,it was loved,but i still believe him coming to hallownest resulted in the end to bugs who already had counciousness to die with his bugs/their descendents whom he gave counciousness to,and even the vessels to not have the chance to explore

[scenic surge]

I mean but with all the MANY generations that lived in the kingdom

more bugs lived in his kingdom

happily then died to the infection

[quiet citrus]

I think his rule is subjective

[scenic surge]

your argument was that he caused so many deaths, but there's so many countless generations of bugs that lived

[scenic surge]

every single depiction of him as king is positive

with the exception of the soul tyrant who hated the pale king for standing AGAINST his mass genocide

[quiet citrus]

Soul tyrant is an asshole fr

Hate that guy

[scenic surge]

the pale king literally stood and opposed the soul master in his heinous soul genocidal experiments

so I feel as though that should give an important picture

if everybody deems him as a good king

except the people who we know were bad that he opposed

[river dust]

PK may even have ended bug racism.

[quiet citrus]

I believe he had good in his actions to save the kingdom,but in doing so he caused more people to lose their life

[quiet citrus]

Thats good

I said he had a good kingdom

But way too many people died because of it,and older bug populations also,who had a good life without him just for bugs who couldnt even think about thyselfs

[quiet citrus]

He was a good peacekeer yeah

[loud crater]

What was the cause of their deaths? Are you talking about the Radiance's infection, or something else?

[scenic surge]

he is referring to the radiances infection

and the vessels

who he sacrificed

for the sake of saving a few more bug generations

before that planned went down the drain

[quiet citrus]

Not a fair trad3

Trade*

[loud crater]

He only did it because he foresaw it working. Had it actually worked it would have saved vastly more than it killed.

[scenic surge]

ehhhh

[quiet citrus]

A phew bugs life is not less valuable then more bugs life

[scenic surge]

that's where I gotta disagree

[quiet citrus]

Every life matters

[loud crater]

"No cost too great" refers to the good of it eventually put weighing the bad of it, the bad being the Vessels.

[scenic surge]

there's dialogue from the big ol mushroom

[quiet citrus]

The goat

[loud crater]

It was a large scale trolly problem. Sacrifice some to save many more.

[scenic surge]

that states he foresaw the demise of everything

[scenic surge]

which is rather note worthy

[quiet citrus]

https://tenor.com/view/mrmushroom-mr-mushroom-gif-7953296240539940343

[loud crater]

That was with hindsight. And how would a random mushroom know about how someone else's foresight works?

[scenic surge]

ehh

with that it does imply he foresaw everythings demise when he was doing his plan

but had hoped he could prevent it

as the thing states that he tried doing the plan in hopes of going against what he foresaw

[quiet citrus]

How could he know 100% it would work?He killed thousands,how many more until he stopped?How many lifes of his family sacrificed?

[scenic surge]

"Pale wyrm, what good to foresee a demise unavoidable"

[scenic surge]

His kingdom was large

[quiet citrus]

It stratched allot yeah

[scenic surge]

I'd say the few generations he saved with his plan is larger then that of those he sacrificed

[quiet citrus]

It's a matter of perspective bro

[loud crater]

Because he had foresaw it actually working and went with it. Again, "No cost too Great" is how he reasoned what he did. Not to mention the creatures he had killed were fetuses who had never got a chance to live. Yes, he killed many many beings but those beings had never even been conscious before they died.

[quiet citrus]

On what you re willing to do

[loud crater]

He just never foresaw it failing.

[scenic surge]

it's like said he foresaw a unavoidable demise

Like yeah he thought it would work

I agree

but saying he foresaw it working does go against the only piece of dialogue we have on what he foresaw on his kingdoms fate

[loud crater]

The only dialogue came from a third party. We have little clue on how his foresight actually works. If that dialoge came directly from the PK or hell even WL I'd believe it, but it comes from a random corpse in the Fungal core.

Said corpse had hindsight to make its judgements as well.

[quiet citrus]

With the "counciosness" it enters a little in the matter of what u think of abortion

[scenic surge]

Horf we can't brush off dialogue

we have to at least in some way accept it

instead of saying it's false

[quiet citrus]

On how u see when life becomes life

[scenic surge]

because even if we don't like it, if we say this piece of dialogue is actually false

then we can do that about a bunch

unless you can give me some other way that the big knowledgable mushroom

[scenic surge]

s dialogue can be interpreted

I gotta say he foresaw his demise

as saying this piece of dialogue is false or this dialogue is false feels reductive

especially since that piece of dialogue has been around since the launch of hollow knight

[loud crater]

I interprete it as the mushroom seeing the destruction around him and making the assumption that the PK had foreseen this. But the issue I have with interpretating it as the PK could foresee this happening is that its a completely random corpse who as far as we know has no connection to the PK. I find it really, really unlikely that this random mushroom knows the deep intricate functions of the PK's foresight. I find it incredibly likely that it saw what was going on around it and made an assumption.

To summarize somewhat:
It made an assumption with only what it could see around it,
Its just a random fungal corpse without any known connection to the King,
Nothing ever supports this idea ijrc.

[scenic surge]

then why would team cherry add that piece of dialogue

when we get dialogue that's supposed to be false

we later down the road get pretty big evidence

that the previous statement was false

/ a lie

[loud crater]

Because it adds world building and adds more opinions to the world. And again, how would this random fungal creature know that the PK had perfect foresight, or at least foresight of high enough quality to see the demise of the kingdom.

I'd be more willing to accept your interpretation if we saw dialoge supporting this from someone closer to the PK like Hornet or Ogrim or WL, but I dont recall any such dialoge from anyone but this shroom.

[scenic surge]

their the only one

but team cherry doesn't in anyway try disproving this random shrumals claim

like you think they would

[loud crater]

The shroom has no connection to the PK. It has no way to know how the PK's foresight works. It'd be like me wondering something about Donald Trump with shoddy evidence for it.

[scenic surge]

by that logic are we to assume that the shrumals are wrong about deepnests dead sire

they aren't in anyway close to deepnest

are we going to strart questioning if the dead sire exists or not

[loud crater]

They're the area that directly leads into the region

[scenic surge]

or herrah being a common beast

[fading crane]

I'm going to ask a crazy, even ridiculous question:
It is possible to be a Pale Being and a Void being at the same time?

[scenic surge]

no

[loud crater]

What's the dead sire claim?

[fading crane]

[scenic surge]

that he exists

the claim is that he exists

and they are the only ones to ever mention him existing

that deepnests citizens or lore tablets don't mention him existing

just some random dialogue about the dead sire existing

if we can't trust the very suspicious gigantic shrumal corpse

can we even trust the random shrumal lore tablet

[loud crater]

The difference between that and the PK foresight claim is that they directly border the damn region and would have had some degree of contact with the region. And yet they had neither of those with the PK.

[loud crater]

We also now know that she isnt so any shrumal claim on Deepnest is kidna dubious tbh.

[near sequoia]

I used ChatGPT to come up with a boss in Hollow Knight What do u think ?

Never... have I been defeated in combat.
I can... see myself there, still sleeping. How long have I been hidden here?
Here at the edge of the world, no-one could find me... except you.
Warriors, knights, kings, even time itself... they have no power over me. Only you.
You are the darkness... come to consume me.

[scenic surge]

https://tenor.com/view/eww-gif-8985768279355337139

chatgpt

using a.i art

and ideas

[scenic surge]

they literally joined the pale king for his foresight

I'm not disagreeing with you horf

I'm just pointing out that the shrumals joined the pale king for that said reason

of foresight

[loud crater]

[scenic surge]

also horf just to make sure

[scenic surge]

this conversation has not been in anyway been taxing on you right?

or frustrating, infuriating, annoying, or anything like that

because if so do tell me as I don't want to in anyway make you feel such a way

[loud crater]

No not really.

[scenic surge]

Okay good :D

[loud crater]

Its Markoth's defeat dialoge I believe.

[rugged comet]

Markoth - After battle - Markoth Defeat

Never... have I been defeated in combat.
I can... see myself there, still sleeping. How long have I been hidden here?
Here at the edge of the world, no-one could find me... except you.
Warriors, knights, kings, even time itself... they have no power over me. Only you.
You are the darkness... come to consume me.

@lexmolten used /npcs dream-warriors name: Markoth category: After battle dialogue: Markoth Defeat

[loud crater]

Both already were introduced in Silksong.

[fading crane]

What kind of connection do you think the pale ore and the Pale Beings have?

[loud crater]

They grow wherever Pale Beings reside. Like radiation and tumors.

Radiation is the Pale Being and tumors are the Pale Ore in this case.

[fading crane]

[loud crater]

It doesnt have to be nearby them necessarily.

[fading crane]

But then do PB hatch from eggs or how?

[loud crater]

Look man Im just trying to justify how they are linked. But like its a region thing. They grow in the general region where a Pale Being resides in.

[fading crane]

The White Palace was once located in Ancient Basin...
So from that perspective it makes sense

[hot lily]

no AI slop here, delete this

[blissful crest]

is this not just cut artwork and markoth’s post fight dialogue

[near sequoia]

yes

i can't believe that worked

[humble ridge]

Ai icky

[modest hound]

Guys can someone explain shade lord ending

[near sequoia]

Godseekers use gods (bosses) in ritual combat so they can attune to even higher gods, with their end goal being to bring The Radiance to Godhome to worship her and to boost her power, creating AbsRad

You defeat AbsRad in combat and the Godseeker realizes you are stronger so she gives the power boost to you, creating the Shade Lord

Shade Lord exits through her dream body and presumably returns to the abyss like in Dream No More, although it revisits Godhome in Godseeker Mode to fight some more bosses (for fun ig)

[modest hound]

Then how is hollow knight is free and at the end infront of hornet both doing a battle stance like they are fonna fight

[near sequoia]

In bad endings the egg automatically reacts to Radiance switching vessels and ends up chaining The Knight

So its theorized that the seals just deactivated once Radiance was dead

[indigo venture]

Yeah Void Given Focus just developed a liking for battle

[near sequoia]

THK leans on its nail in that cutscene and Hornet looks startled and enters a battle stance, they don't really have a reason to fight even if it looks like they will for some reason

So

[indigo venture]

Hornet just gets startled

[modest hound]

So that means the hollow knight ia still roaming around hallownest till today?

[indigo venture]

||We know her Surprised Stance is a Combat ready one||

[indigo venture]

Probably not

[near sequoia]

It could be

[indigo venture]

Doesnt really have a reason to live anymore, not its own being like TK is

Wouldnt be surprised if it killed itself

That plus its body isnt really doing too hot either

[near sequoia]

Yeah that's what I believe but the cutscene does present it like they'll fight which is kinda misleading

They might've just wanted to end on Hornet having some hype moments and aura to tease Silksong

[indigo venture]

I mean thats just an interpretation

Again, Hornet whenever surprised by something just instantly locks in for a fight

[near sequoia]

I mean listen to the music

[indigo venture]

Seems more like its meant to acompany the surprise of THK being freed

[near sequoia]

It swells and gets dramatic that would be weird if they were just reuniting after eons as bros

[modest hound]

The hollow knight alr possibly knows hornet cuz of the baby room in white palace which he was trained there then he might know that its his sister THEN how is hornet captured he would have defended her??

[indigo venture]

What?

Okay thats a handful to read damn

[near sequoia]

You have to admit Hornet entering a battle stance and the music getting dramatic does give the impression that they'll fight

[modest hound]

.

[near sequoia]

THK is severely weakened

In the cutscene its using its nail as a cane

[modest hound]

Team cherry should make a third game we rly need to know what happened

[near sequoia]

In the fight it trips over itself and needs to be dragged by The Radiance physically to slam into The Knight in phase 2

Its also like missing an arm

[indigo venture]

Meh

Not really

[near sequoia]

THK has one arm in the fight if you look closely and ofc its head is cracked and its been tortured for ages

[indigo venture]

WL verbatim states THK is severely weakened and the only reason it proves a threat is due to the infection powering it

[rugged comet]

White Lady - General - Listening again

I'll offer fair warning. The Vessel may itself be weak, but it is much empowered by that force within.
To claim its role requires strength of some magnitude. Prepare yourself well before attempting the task.

@megathekindly used /npcs quest name: White Lady category: General dialogue: Listening again

[modest hound]

Hm i wish In the sk dlc or another doc cuz maybe they will do more than one hornet goes back through the way she came and we see hallownest in hornet view

[indigo venture]

Sounds boring

[rugged comet]

Developer comment: Godseeker Mode is canon

According to a Hollow Knight playtester, Godseeker Mode canonically takes place after the Pantheon of Hallownest.

[Source 1](#hk-lore message) | [Source 2](#hk-lore message)

@nostor_10. used /dev-comments source: Discord name: Godseeker Mode is canon

[indigo venture]

Godseeker mode takes place after P5 yes

[fading crane]

So the Godseeker mode is canon?

[indigo venture]

Yes

[modest hound]

Ofc

[indigo venture]

Thats what it says

[fading crane]

Wow...

[trail harbor]

OOHHHHHHH

[modest hound]

Hm hk is truly a master piece man

[near sequoia]

Even without the playtesters words thats just what the dialogue in the mode implies

[fading crane]

Why the Knight would return to the Godhome

?

[indigo venture]

Fun

It got a liking to fighting

[near sequoia]

Why does it play Godhome for fun is it stupid

[indigo venture]

It just really likes fighting I guess

Whats stupid about that

[fading crane]

Curious...

[trail harbor]

fighting?

[indigo venture]

ye

[trail harbor]

WAIT

how is godseeker canon if embrace the void is cannon

and the knights mask rips in half and the knight becomes the shade lord?

[split compass]

you mean Godseeker mode? my advice is 'don't worry about it'

but since it takes place in the dream realm, you can always say 'something something TK retakes their smaller form as a dream'

[trail harbor]

okay

[hot lily]

||Silksong is a possible path, it's not the only possible path||

[ivory flame]

What happened to Quirell?

[tawny crag]

He died

[ivory flame]

It was suicide or natural death?

[split compass]

i guess more like supernatural life coming to an end?

it's implied that his life was extended by Monomon's mask and without it his age caught up to him

[tawny crag]

He was alive for those centuries js because he had monomons mask

So ye imo natural death

After killing monomon he would go into the normal aging process

[split compass]

aged to dust offscreen

[tawny crag]

Ye

They could do some sorta prequel tho with quirrel if they ever consider a third game

Like it could be set some time between the infection breakout and the events of hollow knight

[split compass]

a lot of people talk about that

though i don't have much interest in prequels myself

[tawny crag]

Well but I rlly wish we could see more of hallownest so many unanswered questions

Who was this blackwyrm guy
How did pale king die
Wtf even is nosk where it came from
And so many more questions

[hot lily]

PK died of grief/despair

[tawny crag]

I dont think so

[hot lily]

if you say what i think you're gonna say i'm going to immediately strike it down

[tawny crag]

Cuz his room is dark compared to the rest white palace and considering how close the white palace was to the abyss mb some void leaked into that kingsmoulds mind where white palace was situated

[tawny crag]

💔

[hot lily]

void did not kill him

there is no void residue on his corpse unlike literally everyone else who died to it

he himself experimented with liquid void numerous times for his Moulds, and was no worse for wear

[hot lily]

so no it was not Void

[tawny crag]

Ok

[split compass]

maybe, though if they're going to be answered i'd rather have it in future stuff - i never get that into prequels (since I know how they end)

[long helm]

Lore

[sudden aurora]

Who are those guys in that one hot spring

[indigo venture]

Bugs

[sudden aurora]

Ye but are they special

[indigo venture]

No

[sudden aurora]

Oh

[primal cove]

they are colloseum bugs

[golden carbon]

which hotspring are u talking abt?

[indigo venture]

Forgotten Crossroad's

[golden carbon]

ah

yea their colloseum bugs

i think if u dreamnail them it shows

[rugged comet]

Dream Nail: Forgotten Crossroads - Hot Spring Colosseum Spectators - "Another weak one."

Another weak one. I’d suggest it try its nail within the colosseum, though it’d no doubt be squashed in an instant.

@lexmolten used /dream-nail area: Forgotten Crossroads name: Hot Spring Colosseum Spectators - "Another weak one."

[split compass]

i love those two

[signal marlin]

[hard willow]

Yo

why is the knight called the knight again

are they all called the knight?

the vessels?

[loud crater]

The community named them that.

[loud crater]

No.

[hard willow]

ahh

so only official title is little ghost

[loud crater]

Or Lord of Shades.

Only after Void Heart tho.

[hard willow]

where is he referred to as dat

i forgot

[rugged comet]

Dream Nail: The Abyss - Shade Beast - "...Lord of Shades..."

...Lord of Shades...

@lexmolten used /dream-nail area: The Abyss name: Shade Beast - "...Lord of Shades..."

[hard willow]

does hornet have a title in this game

[sudden aurora]

She's hornet

[tough jetty]

Daughter of Hallownest,
The Gendered Child
God protector of a fading land (Godhome)

[split compass]

maybe Princess also

[rigid vigil]

this is probably easily debunkable but the idea of lord fool being a wyrm is so cool

[loud crater]

Yeah but it isnt.

[indigo venture]

Eh, Not really imo

[rigid vigil]

ok chuds

[dense sonnet]

I actually agree

It only requires a little bit of imagination to work, sadly most people here aren’t capable of that

[indigo venture]

I mean first, You'd just need to change a lot of canonical facts/Make stuff up to make it somewhat work. Second, it'd still be a headcanon, which this channel isn't for

Don't really need to just throw that "Most people here aren't capable of that" btw. Seems kind of mean for the sake of being rude and nothing else

[tough jetty]

hehe funny bug game

[indigo venture]

hehe funny bug game

[tough jetty]

i bug mimawau mimawau maumaumauu

we like video game and we like talking about it because its fun and other people also think its fun :)

[dense sonnet]

You wouldn’t need to change any canonical facts, most if not all of the reasons why it’s been “debunked” can be easily handwaved

[indigo venture]

So you don't consider handwaving arguments against it changing canonical facts

[tough jetty]

I feel like there's a state of debunked where if team cherry said it was canon the debunking would be forgotten, and there is a state of debunked as in it makes no sense

[dense sonnet]

I mean no because that’s not what that means
Also it doesn’t need to be debunked, it’s a headcanon by definition. That is to say you can dismiss it due to the lack of evidence while acknowledging it’s still canonically viable

[indigo venture]

It isn't canonically viable is what I'm getting at

[dense sonnet]

Do you even know the arguments against it or are you just parroting what you’ve heard other people in this channel say

[tough jetty]

there is a large difference between possible and plausible

[indigo venture]

[dense sonnet]

By all means you can go ahead and explain why it isn’t canonically viable

[indigo venture]

It wouldn't make sense for another wyrm to be in the kingdom of another
Pale King is implied to be the last member of his species
The Corpse of the big bug the Colo is inside is far too small and too different from the corpse of Pale King
If it was a Wyrm I'd figure Bardoon would have a word about it considering how close he is to it

It doesn't have any relevance nor is acknowledged anywhere in the kingdom

[tough jetty]

what's a blackwyrm do we know anything about them

[indigo venture]

Yes fucking nothing

It's just the name of a battle the 5 great knights took part in

[tough jetty]

On my first playthrough i was really hoping we would be able to dream nail him (and even tried)

[dense sonnet]

It wouldn't make sense for another wyrm to be in the kingdom of another
Says who? While this seems like a reasonable assumption, nothing in the game actually specifies this is the case
Pale King is implied to be the last member of his species
Again, says who? What in-game evidence points towards this conclusion?
The Corpse of the big bug the Colo is inside is far too small and too different from the corpse of Pale King
Nobody said the Colosseum was a Wyrm, now you’re getting confused between two different things. What they said was that Lord Fool was a Wyrm, so this is literally irrelevant. That being said, if the Colo bug were a Wyrm’s second form that would still account for the discrepancy
If it was a Wyrm I'd figure Bardoon would have a word about it considering how close he is to it
Not if it metamorphosed outside of Hallownest, also this doesn’t explain why it isn’t canonically viable, I don’t think you understand what these words mean you’re just repeating what you’ve heard someone else say

Given most of what you’re working with here is conjecture and we have no insight into Lord Fool’s circumstances/background there is literally nothing that definitively goes against the headcanon that he is a Wyrm

While it’s good to scrutinize a theory this is ultimately a discussion channel, when people are just dismissing shit “because it’s been debunked” what you end up with is an echo chamber. You don’t actually understand why Lord Fool being a Wyrm doesn’t work nor did you at any point have any desire to engage with the person above in good faith you’re literally just parroting shit, inaccurately at that

[worldly lotus]

just dreamnail anything

nothing wrong with finding out hidden details

[tough jetty]

I mean like for a fight/memory like white palace

*awoken dream nail them

[signal marlin]

this is a weird position canonically viable here just means it can fit without contradicting anything. it isnt concerned with confirmation or how likely it is to be true

it is certainly unsupported but it doesnt violate canonical viability

[signal marlin]

and the headcanon part is weird as well. lots of things are generally accepted in this channel that would be a headcanon, mainly PKs death, how the vessels escaped, etc

[split compass]

what if Lord Fool is Zote's dad

think about it

[signal marlin]

[split compass]

what does Zote say when you fight him in the Colosseum?

I'll kill a thousand more...Will that be enough, father?

[neat kite]

interesting, Lord Fool is a fool

[signal marlin]

🗣️

[neat kite]

isn't he from outside hallownest? or do you think he originates from hallownest and has traveled wastes just like knight?

[split compass]

who knows

I can't keep up this charade

I don't really think they're related

[signal marlin]

zote?

[split compass]

I guess it is true that Zote must have traveled the wastes

he doesn't suggest he's originally from Hallownest though, he talks like he's a newcomer to the kingdom

[signal marlin]

in dirtmouth he has dreamnail dialogue saying it reminds him of home

[split compass]

in fact Lord Fool might also be from outside the kingdom originally, we don't know his origins

and speaking of head-canons, I'm stuck on the idea that the Blackwyrm isn't a true wyrm, but a kind of warlord, a regular bug with delusions of granduer
maybe attacking Hallownest in a past age, leaving behind the remnants of his violent followers
so who knows, maybe he was the Lord Fool after all

[signal marlin]

[dense sonnet]

Those things aren’t even mutually exclusive, a militant Wyrm that lost control of its territory one way or another before making an attempt to take over the domain of another is hardly inconceivable

It would also explain the lack of history/dialogue from Bardoon, Godseeker etc.

Just because PK sat down and quietly accepted his fate once his kingdom was wrecked doesn’t mean that every Wyrm out there would react the same way

[signal marlin]

preach, kirb

[split compass]

i did that in my fanfic

[tawny crag]

Uumu is a he or she ???

[surreal rose]

Uumuu is an uumuu and goes strict by uu/muu

[rose leaf]

[trail hemlock]

Its a squid

[tawny crag]

Btw nkg vs prime pale king in a face off

Who y'all think would win ?

[formal peak]

Depends on settings, if it was in middle of nowhere than Pale King, if in troupe it would probably be NKG

Or tie

[formal peak]

Jellyfish

[scenic surge]

What does one deem as prime pale king

do you mean in his wyrm form as that's unecessery honestly

his bug form is more then powerful enough

[tawny crag]

Pale king when hallownest was at its peak

[scenic surge]

I mean that doesn't really change his power or anything

but not really sure

you speak of the nightmare king grimm

but that's not even facing the higher being

that's just part of a ritual

we literally aid the damn nightmare heart by doing so

we don't even get to kill the damn thing or endanger it

the best we can do is banish it

so I can't really say what a life or death battle with it would even look like

[tawny crag]

Makes sense to me

Btw seems like I have seen you somewhere

Not rlly sure where but in some big ytbers video you were mentioned

Cant remember

[scenic surge]

you mean swagg yeah

[ruby lotus]

The Pale King is shown to be pretty weak when it comes to offense

Hence why he has such a large number of body guards, and moves his entire palace into the dream realm to avoid infected bugs

[loud crater]

The PK has shown nothing in terms of offense or defense. He was likely a pretty powerful soul mage, due to someone having to train PV, but thats really all we know.

[ruby lotus]

I mean training someone to be strong, and being strong yourself are two very different things

But you are right, we don't know for sure, better wording would have been "suggested to be pretty weak..."

[scenic surge]

where are you getting this idea from

[scenic surge]

he's not suggested to be pretty weak?

We only get power statements

what does "his lingering power was enough for us to locate an entire kingdom imply"

[ruby lotus]

feats of brightness and influence on others, nothing to suggest he has any offensive capabilities

[loud crater]

Even powerful individuals would have body guards since they wouldn't want to have to kill single intruder that comes into their home. And on the whole Dream Realm deal, he more than likely did it out of shame for what he had done.

[ruby lotus]

also,

God-king, you reduced your form to match Our meagre shells... But why shed so majestic a whole?
Pantheon of Hallownest

[scenic surge]

Being compared to the delicate flower?

[scenic surge]

yeah he reduced his form

That means genuinely nothing

[scenic surge]

Having power statements

about your power being so radiant that it hurts to look at you

[ruby lotus]

Even long departed, We feel the afterglow of the God-power that sat this throne... It lays heavy upon this kingdom.
That lingering power alone was beacon enough to draw Us to Hallownest. How bright it must have been to mortal bug stood before it.
How do you read this to mean anything about offensive power

[scenic surge]

or being compared to the delicate flower

or being capable of creating magical seals

that can only be broken by a one of a kind artifact

[ruby lotus]

it's very clearly referencing the beacon that granted sapience to the bugs, and the raw light he emitted

[scenic surge]

or a grand gate created from his magic

[ruby lotus]

I'm not saying PK was weak lol, i'm saying he lacked raw offensive capabilities, or at the very least we don't see anything to suggest he does

[scenic surge]

that can only be broken

by having HIS mark

or him creating an entire subspace

in the dream realm

whre he physically placed his entire palace

including himself

and created a protective barrier so strong

[ruby lotus]

I don't see how literally any of that is pertinent to a discussion about his offensive capabilities

[scenic surge]

that you needed the one of a kind artifact to be at full strength

[scenic surge]

the moths literally left the goddes of light for the pale king

as they preferred his grand light

yk that's a power statement right?

[loud crater]

Saying he lacked raw offensive power is still wrong since we wouldn't have evidence against it. Someone had to train PV in terms of Soul Magic, and no one in Hallownest we know of would have been able to do so besides the PK and maybe WL.

[ruby lotus]

He's absolutely skilled at using magic, but nothing to suggest he was anything impressive when it comes to offense

[ruby lotus]

A statement of his magical power, yes, nothing to suggest it had anything to do with offensive capabilities

[timber snow]

while i agree what you’re saying, it’s different just teaching someone to use a spell then them getting good at it yk

[ruby lotus]

There's a pretty big difference between teaching someone to be strong, and being strong yourself

[scenic surge]

??????

My guy a fence teacher

is good at fencing themselves

a historian is well versed in history