hk-lore

[deep schooner]

Yeah that makes sense

But

[split compass]

its a nummy dead kingdom for him to eat

[deep schooner]

If you murder nkg, he kinda cant really do that tho

[half coyote]

Also, Void given Focus has all the rest of the shades gone, implying that they are all together that form.

[split compass]

he will when he/Grimmchild grows up and starts the ritual again

[deep schooner]

But it aint really clear whats canon

Or is both?

[pure inlet]

Either way the ritual likely continues

[ebon patio]

void given focus is generally theorized to be just the knight themsef

he just grew immense due to the godseekers focus

[deep schooner]

Were likely to get a nightmare update to silksong if yalls theories are true

Since its a 'dying' kingdom

[ebon patio]

i wish to see the knights teenage grimmchild visit pharloom

[deep schooner]

If the herald is there, then the nightmar heart is too

[deep schooner]

Fr

[split compass]

maybe, but I hope for something more original personally
I like Grimm, but I want new stuff, not a retread of old stuff

[half coyote]

Well, no matter what ending you take, the charm would still be on what’s left of TK‘s Shell

[deep schooner]

Yall think godseekers are gonna come tho pharloom?

Prob not

[split compass]

its implied that the one in Hallownest is the only one, so probably not

[deep schooner]

Since theyre in hallownest

[half coyote]

No, perhaps someone else will figure out how to attune things

[split compass]

I do want a boss rush, but again, hopefully its new and not just godhome again

[ebon patio]

i think not, in dnm they are locked up and in etv they're dead

[deep schooner]

I wouldnt really say attune, since that was the godseekers whole gimmick

Prob just some other gimmick

But i personally think well get some sort of pantheons in sk at some point

Mb not really pantheons

But something along the lines of the

[split compass]

symphonies

[deep schooner]

Yeah

Makes sense

With the entire silksong

Maybe the entire bossrush should just be a hk gimmick

We should get arena rushes in silksong, since theyre so prvalent

Like theres like 30 arenas

All of which get 6 times harder in act 3

Especially that one hunters march arena

[split compass]

I don't know if I want another full pantheon of all bosses (but god help me I would do it), but I would still like a 'Hall of Bosses' thing
I wanna refight a bunch of SS bosses with different loadouts without starting new playthrus

[deep schooner]

Fr

I dont wanna play the entire game again just so i can beat clover dancers

I wanna shred thriugh moss mother 1 with op gear

But

Just somehting to clarify

Theres a few duplicates of bosses

Like savage beastly

Moss mother

And diffrent versions of chef lugoli dependinf on when u fight her

[indigo venture]

Not all of them

[half coyote]

Really??

Where do all the rest of the shades go??

[indigo venture]

I mean

THK Isn't there

So that makes it automatically not all of the Shades

[half coyote]

They were all there a second ago

[half coyote]

They probably diddnt come

[indigo venture]

They're probably alive

So it isn't all of the shades

It's most of them

But not all

99% type shi

[half coyote]

But they vanish when void given focus is there is my point

[indigo venture]

Yeah

The Shades present do

[half coyote]

They are together void given focus

[indigo venture]

Probably/Maybe

[half coyote]

Otherwise why do they vanish when we see void given focus

[indigo venture]

Why do they not re-appear after ||VGForm comes back||

Also I just realized this is Silksong

gotta get to Spoilering stuff

[half coyote]

They do

[indigo venture]

Show

[civic dew]

nah whats happening is that big shade lord is all of the baybay shades, its big school of shadows

[indigo venture]

Well ||It isn't all of them||

||Cuz THK isn't there||

[half coyote]

Thanks for proving my point

[indigo venture]

I'd say Most

[civic dew]

like dat wishiwashi pokemans

[indigo venture]

I have a question actually

[civic dew]

they playin wii sports trust

[indigo venture]

if VGFocus is all of the shades

Why do they take TK's form and TK form only in Godseeker Mode

Unless VGFocus "Defused" and TK just has the title "God of Gods" now, even though they aren't at their perfect form

[half coyote]

Because they need to focus together to achieve that form. The flash is to represent that together they are void given focus

[indigo venture]

But why do they take TK's form in Godseeker mode

I ain't talking about the ||Silkingsong cutscene rn||

[half coyote]

You need the Void Heart to enter Pantheon 5 which implies that it is not only TK in there. TK brings all the Shades there

[indigo venture]

7heman I think your not understanding what I'm saying

After the Events of Pantheon of Hallownest, VGFocus is born, kills Radiance, Yada yada.

Godseeker mode Canonically happens after the Events of Pantheon of Hallownest

In Godseeker mode VGFocus "Adopted"/Went back to looking like The Knight

If all (99%) of the shades form VGFocus

Why do they take TK's form and TK's form only? Is it because it's still their will that controls them?

[half coyote]

Because TK has the void heart

[indigo venture]

Uh huh

So where do all the Shades go

[half coyote]

When

[indigo venture]

If TK is back at their "Regular Form"

Do the shades go back to the Abyss after "Defusing"?

[half coyote]

What do you mean by defusing??

[indigo venture]

Do they all share the title since they were all apart of VGFocus or is it only TK because it was the one with Voidheart

[indigo venture]

VGFocus is all Shades, that's your take, yes?

In Godseeker mode TK has already became VGFocus and yet went back to taking it's old form/shape

Do the shades go back to The Abyss whilst TK is having fun on Godhome or something?

[half coyote]

Shades are Void. It is a large amount of void focused on one being, which includes she sibling shades. Hence the name Void given focus

[indigo venture]

The Name is because of the Godseeker's Focus i'd say

It's that Focus that allowed the being to be "Birthed" To begin with

It's Void Given godseeker's Focus

[half coyote]

Also, Dream no more is the likely candidate for the real ending, otherwise this means nothing to hornet at the end of silksong -

[indigo venture]

The ||Canonical ending for Silksong||?

[half coyote]

Ye

[indigo venture]

I'd disagree but that's a whole 'nother can of worms not fr this channel

Regardless I think I see where your coming from now

Thanks for your time

[hot lily]

The ending that Silksong follows has to be 1 of 2 (possibly 3), but I won't spoil

[thin compass]

This far just for yesterday…

Ooo cool theory

Another week up. Only 445 more weeks to scroll

[wanton zephyr]

But why are you scrolling
I already found the top

[fathom garden]

were cracking the knight???

[indigo venture]

Ew

[wanton zephyr]

Huh???

[slender kite]

Do we know ANYTHING about the Broken Vessel? And I mean literally ANYTHING other than the obvious of “he’s a vessel who got overcome by the orange juice.”

[fathom garden]

not rlly

maybe besides the fact hes a bit taller then the average vessels

[slender kite]

Does that prove he made it though the first part of training then made it through some of the growth cycle before he showed emotion and got Sparta kicked into the abyss?

[wanton zephyr]

No

It just meant that it was bigger

[hot lily]

no because its size isn't outside of the range that can be discerned from all of the other Vessels we see

[tribal badge]

Is the moth tribe originally from hollownest?

[topaz barn]

most likely yeah

[slender kite]

So it’s pretty much just a big guy with some decent swordsmanship.

[hot lily]

yeah

[slender kite]

Noted.

Somehow relatable.

[humble current]

Yes

[tribal badge]

Thx

[quiet hill]

yezzir

[spiral quiver]

I think it has to be delicate flower ending since we see the knight as void given focus and not just form, also ||hornet knows about the power of the everbloom in silksong. ||

[red glen]

wdym? the regular Godhome ending also has the Knight turning into the Void Given Focus. VGForm is in Dream no More
also Hornet never gets to see the delicate flower in Hollow Knight. u don't necessarily take it to her
||and finally she knows about the Everbloom bc you literally get it from a memory of her learning about it from the White Lady. WL gets meta abt it but it's still a sort of recalling of the past||

could still be either ending tho

[deep schooner]

Do yall think DNM could lead to silksongs true ending?

[abstract tapir]

||The P5 ending with the Everbloom seems to be the canon one, since Ghost has their Shade Lord form. I find it very interesting that Hollow is wandering around somewhere, likely in search of Hornet||

[deep schooner]

I wouldnt really say || hes searching for hornet, more so just senses void is attacking her and helps when he can||

But yeah p5 ending is probably canon

[abstract tapir]

||By Hollow I mean the vessel, since we can see they leave the temple and encounter Hornet in the P5 endings||

[deep schooner]

Dam i really wonder how that goes when hornet sees uninfected hollow

[quiet viper]

Looking for opinions:
Who wins in a realistic battle?
Nightmare King Grimm vs Pure Vessel

[humble current]

What does 'realistic' mean? (Also not really lore lol)

[quiet viper]

Like taking everything lore and gameplay into account
Who would win in a fight
(Yes it’s not lore but I want answers and idk where else to ask)

[humble current]

Probably NKG (can fly, is a higher being, and is harder in-game. Also I would ask this in #hk-discussion btw)

[quiet viper]

Ah ok thank you(I will take my silly little debate there thanks)

[ebon patio]

yes it can

the flashing between the knight's 2 forms are only a visual device to show both hk endings are possible

it likely doesnt mean that the knight actually flashed between those forms

[dense valley]

What's the lore behind the mushroom guy, whatever his name is

They can't just leave us with a "to be continued"

[ebon patio]

he just witnesses the death of bug kingdoms

he saw hallownest die and he went to find other dying kingdoms

[sand stump]

He symbolises the beginning of a new age

not just the death of a kingdom

[sand stump]

Pure Vessel

PV is Void, it has much more soul power and most likely would be an absolute bastard for the NMH to deal with as the Void tears the soul from NKG

[sand stump]

Yupp
||The main ones it could be are DNM or EtV||

[still gulch]

I am sorry but PV doesn't stand a chance.

[sand stump]

Elaborate

[brittle cave]

Nkg and pv would be a close fight. Can see either winning tbh.

if the tiny knight can defeat gods, so can pure vessel.

but nkg also op

[still gulch]

Nkg comes out of nightmares heart -a higher being- whose power should be relative albeit inferior.
Their purposes of being is also different. Nkg was made out of nightmares for the final ritual combat of grimm. Pv was only hollowed by the void and trained to contain the infection. Nkg has significant power coming from nmh whereas pv has no full control over the void like the knight did after acquiring the voidheart. He isn't trained in shade attacks tk can do which make his regular spells stronger with the void.
PV's only significant feat was sealing the infection and resisting the radiance's struggles even after the infection leaked. However the reason rad couldn't escape was because he was made of void for this very reason. Which is why rad screams in her dnail dialouge "ancient enemy (void) let me be free".

[sand stump]

1. Alright sure NKG comes from NMH which is a higher being, but PV also comes from the Void and two Pale Beings, with Pale Beings being some of the most powerful higher beings seen and Void being seen as "The Power Opposed"
2. TK never used the Void to fight PV or NKG it used what it had at its disposal, so the point of "PV doesn't have full control over the void" doesn't really work
3. PV having no Shade spells doesn't matter, they have a lot more control of the Void that is in their own body, as seen with the fact that they can shoot out Void Tendrils out of them. Plus PVs base spells are a lot more powerful than TKs, and they cover a lot more area
4. PV was not only hollowed out by Void, they are Void, and have been shown to be able to control the Void within them and even hold on for a bit after being struck down and wasn't only trained to contain the infection, as seen in the PV fight they were obviously trained to fight quite well too, this is ontop of them being in their Prime and most powerful state

And lets look at it again from the TK standpoint
TK doesn't use the Full power of the Void in DNM and actually just calls it to engulf the Radiance after it has already been basically taken out
TK does it Itself and since THK helps in this fight by the end shows that PV probably could put up a good fight against the NMH since the Radiance is a Dream Being much like the Radiance, while also not shining as bright, so it has less defence against the Void

Plus, we also gotta take PVs Shade into account, that would definitely rise in a normal fight if it were to fall

and if we take inspiration from TKs Shade
PVs Shade would be able to use entirely Void versions of PVs spells, which mean it is an even more dangerous foe

[steel grotto]

i have a question bc everyone I ask tells me different things, does the knight have emotions or not

[deep schooner]

At the beginning no, but after the events of hk, he builds some sort of bond with hornet

[steel grotto]

that's what I thought bc nosk takes the form of hornet in godhome

and also bc of ||silksongs ending||

[vale oyster]

Mark that as a spoiler pls

[deep schooner]

I really dk the lore of nosk but|| silksongs true ending basically shows the knight at the very least acknowledging hornet, much more saving her||

[sand stump]

He always had the capability of them
but they only show by the end of the game

[vale oyster]

Another instance of tk showing emotion is the acquisition of void heart

[steel grotto]

he basically tooks shape as someone you have some kind of emotional bond with to lure you into his lair

[vale oyster]

The cutscene must have made them feel something, that pushed them to unite the void

[deep schooner]

Wuite possibly

That makes hella sense

[sand stump]

yeah, pretty twisted but that is what he do

hella efficient

[steel grotto]

and that's why he's mimicking us at the start of the game

[deep schooner]

Bcos the knight is a narcissist and only likes himslf

Jk

More accurate would be that he only KNOWS himself

Himself being the only valuable thing

[hybrid whale]

Also when you sit in the bench for a long time he nods maybe it is a sign that he loves exploration that means he isn't exactly hollow from the start of the game

[steel grotto]

but yea when I said that the knight has emotions on TikTok sooo many ppl attacked me that "no he doesn't that's the point of the game he's a vessel he can't) blablabla

[sand stump]

I always just saw that as a sign of dozing off

[vale oyster]

Same

[deep schooner]

Im pretty sure thats what he does yeah

[sand stump]

The vessel plan was inherently flawed
The Fact that ANY Vessel showed emotion or had an attachment
means that every Vessel has the capability for that, so since they have the capability, they have a mind susceptible to the infection

[deep schooner]

Yall think the bench nap theory could work

[sand stump]

yeah cuz its a slow drop and then an instant snap up

[vale oyster]

Yeah all 3 (living) vessels that we see in the game show emotions

[sand stump]

So it would make more sense that its dozing off and catching yourself

[vale oyster]

Bv reaches out to tk after being defeated

[deep schooner]

Nonchalantly might i add

[vale oyster]

The foresight theory?
I dony believe in it

[deep schooner]

It does seem like a long shot

[steel grotto]

also ||hornet seems to do the same thing when sitting on a bench|| and she obv has emotions

[vale oyster]

Bv is tall and nonchalant

[sand stump]

yueah

[deep schooner]

But its the only theory that explains him waking up at a bench after dying

[sand stump]

nah foresight theory isn't canon

cuz Death isn't canon

[deep schooner]

Hell yeah

[vale oyster]

It would be really cool if True, but there are some problems with it

[hybrid whale]

Yes cuz it's mine

[hot lily]

Respawning isn't canon @deep schooner

[sand stump]

yeah thats a better way to phrase it

[deep schooner]

Well no shirt sherlock

[sand stump]

not "death isn't canon" 😭

[vale oyster]

Canonical immortality

[deep schooner]

I just wouldnt really word jt like that

[vale oyster]

Btw why do only some of the dead vessels in the abyss have shades?

Did other shades die? Return to the void? Or something else?

[deep schooner]

im pretty sure all of them have

some just refused with the void

[hybrid whale]

They keep spawning all the time so i think all of them have shades

[vale oyster]

Oh yeah I forgot about that

That solves it then

[sand stump]

A lotta their shades are just in the Void

All of them do have shades, its jsut not all of them come out at once

[quick haven]

hornet will die in the godhome dlc, which will release in the 5th of february of 2028

[vale oyster]

Bro had a vision

[hybrid whale]

Where is the spoiler tag🥺😳

Do vessels sleep?

[sacred narwhal]

They probably turn off sort of

you can see TK napping on bench

[indigo venture]

They can rest and pass out

[hot lily]

we don't know

[hybrid whale]

Yes that's what i think too that quick nap on the bench is all the rest they need

[indigo venture]

We dunno' if they even need rest

They just can do that

[pine karma]

"The gate to the City of Tears was closed in an attempt to stop the Infection from spreading"
pale king, i dont think that's how it spreads...

[versed minnow]

i think there will be a future dlc that brings hornet back to hallownest and a new final that we gonna have to pass an big way back

[noble frigate]

What happend to charms in Pharloom?

[versed minnow]

they disappeared

[near sequoia]

||Many blue tools seem to just be charms with a new coat of paint||

[hybrid whale]

I think they don't use them there

[robust galleon]

this implies the infection would be an accident
which it most deff isnt
wiki please use better phrasing

[noble frigate]

Is there multiple sprint masters because charms come from the deceased body of someone so the sprint master charm and the sprint master from pharloom seem to be the same

[hot lily]

there's erroneous phrasing here

the event which catalyzed the Infection was the progressive forgetfulness of their existence by the Moth tribe, which itself stems from the initial betrayal of the Moths to follow PK instead, in ancient history

[vale oyster]

skong spoilers: ||there is a sprintmaster in pharloom too||

Being a Sprintmaster might be a universal thing

[hot lily]

it is not resistance of the memories of Radiance that causes Infection, it's resistance to what it falsely offers/shows/etc those who could become victims

the Infection also affects people who were never affected by PK's beacon

[half coyote]

1. Hornet grew up when the five knights were a thing, so she could have learned about the everbloom from Zemer.

2. White lady said it was how they resisted the void so the family was probably in on its uses.

3. The snail shamans know about the everbloom so it might be more common knowledge than we think.

4. Hornet never sees the everbloom in everbloom ending.

All that to say Everbloom Ending isnt what makes hornet know about the everbloom.

[hot lily]

it's completely unknown how much territory Radiance controlled in ancient history but it certainly was not all of what would later become Hallownest, because other tribes besides Moths existed back then which predate the kingdom's founding

[indigo venture]

Radiance was just afraid of fighting Unn for territory

[half coyote]

Probably around crystal peaks and the restimg grounds, especially the latter because the seer says their people were incharge of the place.

[vocal basalt]

Are all of the pale kings kids higher beings?

[wanton zephyr]

Huh?

No?

We have about 0 lore on the abyss creature
Shade lord didn’t exist until the knight got voidheart

Ancient basin and abyss were all PK’s territory

[grave halo]

yeah

[wanton zephyr]

Higher being is a title
None of them are technically

Well
Aside from Void Given Focus but idk if it’s even considered his kid at that point

[cursive tusk]

Do you think vessels are born with monarch wings? It's really weird how so many escaped with such a difficult abyss climb... Maybe the abyss shifted?

[sand stump]

Nah I wouldn't say they would've been
Plus there are many ways up to where PK was, we just see one route

And it's possible to get out of the abyss without monarch wings iirc

[cursive tusk]

Thx I've always wondered why there are so many vessel shells in nosks room

[idle vortex]

cause its down in the ancient basin

i meant deepnest

bruh wait lemme restartr

nosk baited vessels to him with their memory, which caused them to follow nosk and he prolly ate them

radiance wins

now do LL against rad

lost lace

nah the void wins

[blissful crest]

read pins

[gusty glen]

use spoilers when saying stuff that other players have yet to do.

[idle vortex]

how do i hide spoiler stuff?

[near sequoia]

||Like This||

You can also select the text and press the eye but idk how that works on mobile

[pure inlet]

It’s probably easier to climb in the Z axis what we don’t see in game

And vessels are born with wings technically

The void just kills their function

[urban idol]

I don't think this is an option on mobile

[near sequoia]

Ah

[tardy steppe]

Who is Isma

[ebon patio]

member of 5 great knights of hallownest

said to be very close to white defender and was stronger than him

[tardy steppe]

Yeah, but like as a “person”

[ebon patio]

her title was 'kind isma'

[wanton zephyr]

We don’t really know anything about Isma beyond she’s one of the 5 great knights, probably was close to Ogrim seeing as he protects her grove, and gives you Isma’s tear

Not even how she died

[thin compass]

How?!

[hot lily]

She isn't necessarily dead

[wanton zephyr]

Just... search messages before 31/08/2018

[hot lily]

Ogrim's dialogue is ambiguous enough to where it could be reasonably interpreted either way

[wanton zephyr]

Fair enough

[thin compass]

one week checkpoint

[thin compass]

Oh….

Ts is the best i found

[opaque nexus]

Guys what if (and stay with me now) Silksong is hornets fever dream inside the black egg. Depending on which ending you interpret it can either be a dream or just like… yk real or something

[hot lily]

no....just no

[opaque nexus]

She was knocked out in the sealed siblings ending tho

[thin compass]

.

[hot lily]

yes and that's not the only ending of HK

[opaque nexus]

Yea but team cherry said each ending is canon

[near sequoia]

lowk true

[opaque nexus]

Yea you get it

[near sequoia]

TC has continued to maintain that all endings are canon after SS for some reason

Idk what they're doing

[hot lily]

yes, and they also said that they would try and account for all of them, even though SS is explicitly incompatible with one of HK's endings

[opaque nexus]

I mean I can’t be if it’s a dream

Like if she’s dreaming she could still be in the temple

[hot lily]

there is no reason to believe that the game is a dream

[opaque nexus]

She said her body wasn’t made for the egg so what if all the dream essence got to her head and messed her up

We never found out what the infection did to other higher beings

Which hornet technically counts as

[hot lily]

she is not a HB herself

[opaque nexus]

Wait is Hera not a higher being

[hot lily]

again there's endings where that never happens

Herrah isn't one herself either, and even if she was, HB status isn't genetic

[opaque nexus]

I mean wouldn’t the whole weaver species be HB

Because one GMS is a HB and the pale king

[twin prairie]

The Weavers aren’t really higher beings, they’re just created by one

Not to mention Herrah wasn’t a first gen Weaver which is why she might look like that

[valid rapids]

Endings having equal canonicity doesnt mean silksong stems from all endings. In fact, it clearly doesnt.

Just, think of the zelda timeline split, silksong takes place during one branch of time, it doesnt invalidate the other branches tho

[hot lily]

no, creations of HBs aren't also HBs; if they were, all Mosskin and Moths would be HBs

[opaque nexus]

So you can just make a higher being if you try hard enough

[twin prairie]

Not quite

[thin compass]

It’s because of people like you I have to scroll this much

[opaque nexus]

Gng im so lost rn

[twin prairie]

Just equip Wayward Compass then!
laugh track

[thin compass]

Your a monster

How do you type ts all in a minute 😭 WITH a 2018 keyboard

[valid rapids]

Dude

Stop meming

[indigo venture]

Do not ping me for ts

at least turn off Pings within your replies

[thin compass]

Ok

[indigo venture]

Is Nola's Gender ever stated

[pure inlet]

It is not

[wanton zephyr]

When did it say Herrah isn’t a first gen weaver

[humble current]

No

[red glen]

she's a first gen Weaver bc her daughter is called a half spawn. if Herrah wasn't a pure Weaver Hornet would be a Weaver in fourth part

[silk tinsel]

hey so question about lore that i'm gonna ask just so i don't forget

i just found bardoon on a steel soul playthrough and he said something interesting

something like "This is the grave of Wyrm" and "What does death mean for this ancient creature? More Transformation I suppose" and "This kingdom is the result of that event"

seeing as you get the king's mark from inside the giant worm, does that mean that the White King is related to the giant worm in some more significant way?

[silk tinsel]

wow

basically exactly what i thought

that's crazy though

[split compass]

you figured it out~!

[silk tinsel]

what about bardoon himself

he seems like a decently large worm himself, thought obviously not to the scale of the cast-off shell

[split compass]

he says he's not a wyrm like the pale wyrm

Don't mistake. I am not a wyrm... Ohrm... Too small, I am. Too many limbs. No foresight like those old things.

he's just a large bug

a bit unusual, but not some higher being

[silk tinsel]

oh i missed that

i skipped one of his text boxes by mistake 😭

[split compass]

oh nooo...

[silk tinsel]

hmm i can't send images

so i'm in teacher's archives

One of these things here says:
-THIR-YOLK-ABA-ABSENSE-OUTER-SHELL-O-GATE-CONTIAN
LIGHT-EM-VESSEL-EM-EGG-EM-SEAL-THIR-WITHDRAW
EXTERIOR-O-SEAL-WITHIN-DREAMER-INTWIXT-ATWIXT

CONTAIN-LIGHT-THIR-DREAM-CH-ABA-UNGROWTH-CONTAIN-

is this kind of saying that the Dreamers were in fact also sealed within the black egg?

and that's why hornet's mask appears on the black egg in the Sealed Siblings ending?

like not exclusively saying that but is that part of it?

[rich tusk]

They are outside

[rich tusk]

Bardoon is a fat bug

[split compass]

it's describing the Radiance sealed within the vessel, which is in then sealed in the egg (contain light em vessel em egg)
and the dreamers sealing the exterior of the egg (exterior o seal within dreamer)
like, the exterior seal is within the dreamers

hornet shows up because she's made a dreamer like the others, she just happens to be stuck in the egg when it happens

[silk tinsel]

i see

[lusty plinth]

He's actually a caterpillar!

[silk tinsel]

OKAY FINALLY GOT HORNET TO APPEAR AFTER HERRAH

FINALLY GOT THE FRIKIN LINE THAT SAYS HERRAH IS HER MOM

i got spoiled on that from one of those speedrunner versus hunter videos

okay this is just an absolute banger quote

"We do not choose our mothers, or the circumstance into which we are born. Despite all the ills of this world, I'm thankful for the life she granted me."

[silk tinsel]

oh wow The 5 are built out of dung down below

do we know any of the other 5

like Dung Defender is one, and whoever wore the False Knight's armor was one

but what about the other three?

[knotty depot]

Ze'mer is one

and another is dead in front of white lady's hideout

forgot her name

[silk tinsel]

who's Ze'mer

[knotty depot]

lady who gives you the delicate flower quest

[silk tinsel]

OH

wow

oh my goodness yeah i recognize her now

i see her in the background of white defener arena

[knotty depot]

Dryya

And lastly Isma

the acid tear lady

that's five

[silk tinsel]

oh Isma is one of them?

[knotty depot]

yeah

[knotty depot]

Ogrim and Hegemol, respectively

[silk tinsel]

how do we know these names

[knotty depot]

They are all mentioned ingame

I think dung defender says them at some point? But their names definitely appear throughout the game

[knotty depot]

and the bug inside Hegemol's armor isnt one of the 5, it's just a random maggot. Hence it being the "False Knight". The real Hegemol is dead

oh you probably meant that anyway mb

[silk tinsel]

yeah

[silk tinsel]

obviously Isma and Ze'mer because yes

but i've also just discovered that White Defender has multiple tiers similar to Zote

[knotty depot]

White lady says Dryya's name

[silk tinsel]

i see

i will search for the names now

[knotty depot]

And Hegemol's name is also def somewhere i forgot

[slow ocean]

nailamster sheo

[jovial vortex]

what hollow knight character is overlooked by power ? so like who is way stronger than most people might assume

[slow ocean]

sly

[slow ocean]

nailmaster sheo said all the names

[pure inlet]

The five great knights

Ogrim can pack pounds of hardened dung into balls in seconds and toss them like nothing

He can also shockwave it with his fist

And he’s not even the one who was called “Mighty”

[jovial vortex]

honestly he is probably weaker than most assume since only time he is capable of doing solid damage is if he is near dung without that he would be way weaker

[pure inlet]

His dung isn’t like mud

He’s packed it so hard it’s like solid ground

If he was out fighting he’d probably uproot soil and rock

[desert nebula]

Quick question, what makes a dreamer, a dreamer? Can any above average bug be a dreamer? I notice the dreamers have similar masks too, could that be related?

[desert nebula]

Also lol I thought that was a guaranteed event, it’s happened on every run I’ve done

[silk tinsel]

definitely not. im told it happens after getting kings brand

[pure inlet]

Any bug could have been a dreamer

That’s why the black egg mechanism lets Hornet in

But the dreamers were chosen strategically

Herrah was behind Deepnest and it was also a good political move to ally with her

Lurien was extremely loyal and was at the top of the city

Monomon was instrumental in the creation of the project

[tepid cloak]

🤨

[idle wigeon]

yo why are the pale king and the white lady able to manipulate void with such mastery while they can't even stabilize their own void without a mask?

[desert nebula]

I just assumed that hornet could be a seal due to being herrah’s daughter

[wanton zephyr]

The pale king and white lady don’t have any void of themselves to stablize

And white lady… I don’t think there’s anything that says she can manipulate void

PK can stuff void into a shell to do stuff for him but idk if that counts as manipulation

[rigid frigate]

Got a theory on why there are so many stone bugs around the world of hollow knight, specifically hallownest.

They mention everyone leaving a stain behind when they die, What if after some time, much like the silk caccoon hornet has their stain or regret turns into one of these

[wanton zephyr]

Or they are statues/ headstone for dead bugs

And since there are so many dead bugs there are also so many stone bugs

[idle wigeon]

I think those are just dead bugs as there is no void inside, so it doesn't work as cocoons

[rigid frigate]

Still some kind of stain i suppose, btw would put to question whats the black substance in hornets caccoon

[uncut basin]

So

Coming back in like months but anyways back for more lore

How did hornet get to the pharloom at the ending of hollow knight

And wouldnt that mean theres only one canon ending

[wanton zephyr]

|| There are at least 3 endings that can lead to silksong
All endings are canon but not all of them lead to silksong ||

[rigid frigate]

Lets just say there's a solid 50% silksong never happened

[wanton zephyr]

|| Hornet gets to Pharloom because she was kidnapped by citadel bugs ||

[tiny kraken]

What

[slender kite]

Does the training have anything to do with affecting the height of vessels?

Like we know the hollow knight went through training to become the pure vessel.

[wanton zephyr]

THK got to prime form from being raised and trained

But like they are corpses and those don’t grow normally so I’m not sure if training alone can grow them
There might be magic bs involved

[valid rapids]

Given TK gets trained by the kingdoms nailmasters and learns their narts and doesnt grow at all, probably not

[slender kite]

Hm.

[indigo venture]

The Vessel's height is just dependant on how they were born

Like BV was simply Born taller than both TK and THK

Or well, WOULD have been born taller, was it allowed proper birth

[slender kite]

Came out fully grown.

[indigo venture]

Not really

There's bigger vessels than BV already

In the Abyss

[silk tinsel]

omg i was just wearing defender's crest coming to White Lady

found the name of Dung Defender

Ogrim

i was told the names already but actually finding it like this is awesome

OH AND DRYYA

talking to White Lady again reveals her name

[indigo venture]

Sheo lore dumps all of them, incase you want the other 2

[grave halo]

Silksong is a prequel to hollow knight

[indigo venture]

It is not

[grave halo]

I heard it is

[indigo venture]

It is not

[silk tinsel]

hmmm i will look into this

[indigo venture]

Only when he's sculpting with his husband

[silk tinsel]

what

[indigo venture]

?

[hot lily]

absolutely false

[desert nebula]

Nuh uh, the voidheart cutscene says other wise, we see thk as a smol vessel

[indigo venture]

Yes?

And?

THK was the same size as TK and then Raised to prime form

It was still "Born" small

[desert nebula]

I thought you meant they were always that large, my bad

[indigo venture]

[hot lily]

it's important to mention that its growth was artificial

[indigo venture]

Yeah

[sand stump]

||they were kidnapped. Every ending is canon but not every ending is canon to Silksong(with the best candidates being DNM, EtV or delicate flower)||

[desert nebula]

||silkflies can break seals though, so it’s possible they got her out||

[old trail]

what is the big egg thing with reflection that u use to get void heart

[indigo venture]

The Knight's Egg

[old trail]

thats ME

[jaunty turtle]

So, is Grimm a higher being or is the he like the moths were for the radiance?

[valid rapids]

He's the vessel for the nightmare's heart which is likely a higher being

He is created by the nightmare's heart so yeah he's kinda similar to the moths or mosskin

As a HB's creation from dream

[jaunty turtle]

Okay, gotcha

[civic dew]

on the topic of the grimm troupe, i think the hard rock made people forget how morbid they really are. its cult made up of (presumably) forcibly indoctrinated members. they go around to dying kingdoms to feed of the pain and fear of its denizens. the "leader" of the troupe is effectively just a carrier for the nightmare's heart, with the ultimate fate of death after being used up, and then replaced. The arrival of the grimm troupe is an omen, a sigh that a ravenous god has set its hunger on an unwilling land.

in monster hunter terms, its some real gaismagorm and the quorio shit

[indigo venture]

I mean there's no real evidence the one's who joined did so by being forced

Most seems to have joined by their own will due to wanting something from the Troupe

They probably CAN'T Leave by will though

The rest is pretty accurate though

[civic dew]

i mean, brumm shure didn't like being in the troupe

[indigo venture]

Well yeah but he likely joined by will

As I said, they prob joined by will, but were denied exit

[civic dew]

buyers remorse

[indigo venture]

The only real way to leave seemingly is doing something bad enough to get banished

Like Brumm fucking up the Ongoing ritual

And even they don't do anything to brumm they just leave them there

[civic dew]

if we do get grimm troupe stuff in skong id like them to be antagonists. in hk the knight didn't really have any known reason to resist the troupe. however we know that hornet, especially act 3 hornet, has a great deal of empathy and sense of responsibility for the innocent bugs of pharloom, i doubt she take kindly to this vampiric carnival feeding on the fears of the bugs she has been doing her best to protect and help

[indigo venture]

I mean It's not like they directly HARM anyone

They just could

[civic dew]

if they make sherma cry they are getting a beast crest mauling/j

[hot lily]

I mean the Grimm Troupe aren't harming anyone by what they do

[low palm]

It’s also the only reflective surface in the entire game

So the knight is essentially dream nailing themselves

[timber void]

Grimm is a vessel for the scarlet heart, which makes him kinda like the hollow knight

Who is also a vessel for a higher being

[wanton zephyr]

Idk if that's the right equivalent...

Grimm i feel is more of an avatar

Does willingness to host a HB change the definition of vessel..

[marble gorge]

hi im new

[pure inlet]

Grimm is both an avatar and a vessel

Physically he contains the NMH

NMH creates new subservient Grimmchilds with autonomy but once they absorb NMH and grow up it seems like NMH pretty much controls them

All and one clan and master

[lusty rose]

Uhh

No

[split compass]

WL does say that Grimmchild and the Knight share a remote similarity

[...] you two share a... similarity? It is a distant link, one words would strain to convey.

they are both vessels in a sense, created to hold something greater

[lusty rose]

True, but the purpose of each one is very different

[timber void]

Not vessel in terms of what the children of the pale beings are called, vessel as in the normal sense

Not claiming they are the same type of being, just saying grimm and the hollow knight serve similar purposes

[split compass]

WL says you're right

[blazing violet]

TELL ME ABOUT || worms||

i mean wyrms

[red glen]

they burrow through the world. die. and make civilizations. most are dead dead. so "the world is smaller" according to Bardoon. cause there aren't many civilizations. basically the bigger HK world is also kinda dead not only Hallownest. PK was one of the last Wyrms and he wanted his kingdom to last eternal unlike the others'. Radiance is a metaphor for time
also they seem to be a species of pale higher beings. or maybe only PK is, since he's specifically called the Pale Wyrm

they also have foretelling abilities

[livid cove]

Well we know of a Blackwyrm, which makes me think wyrms aren't pale beings by default. I think being a pale being means that that higher being is one of soul maybe? Since both PK and WL manipulate soul and we don't see any other higher beings do that. GMS also seems to be a PB i think and she too manipulates soul (silk is a solidified form of soul). But that's not confirmed and just my theory.

[lethal loom]

[keen topaz]

Pretty sure we have to spoiler silksong spoilers here

[zenith fox]

||Grub father final boss||

[neat kite]

White Lady manipulates Soul?

[autumn dome]

I think this was discussed way back in the ages of HK theorizing but it's likely the Blackwyrm was a title/nickname rather than an actual Wyrm, as all other mentions of wyrms are like... proper nouns

Idk if noun is the term you get what i mean

[autumn dome]

Probably

[vale oyster]

Skong spoilers: ||gms calls pk "*the* white wyrm", which means that he's the only pale wyrm||

[woven quiver]

I'm doing some upgrades to fight Hornet 2 right now. I'm not great at the game so it's taking some time. But while doing so I figured how rich and epic the HK universe is. I'm having so much fun exploring, reading about it and understanding the lore.

and hello to all. I'm new here

I'm a composer/sound designer. This kind of game design inspires me a lot

[ebon patio]

cool man

[hot lily]

Yeah, plus none of the characters who are familiar with Wyrms ever mention a Wyrm of that color

[autumn dome]

To add to that, Bardoon is the most knowledgeable on terms of Wyrms. Even he mentions the importance of Kingdom's Edge 'snows' as moult, and we don't see that anywhere else on the map. You'd think he'd use plural if multiple wyrm corpses laid there there

Ergo, Blackwyrm most likely wasn't a Wyrm

[clever ginkgo]

That is assuming that blackwyrm was in hallownest

[hot lily]

Irrelevant, Bardoon describes their behavior in the greater world

[red glen]

i'm pretty sure you're right on all accounts there

we don't really know what the Blackwyrm is tho so I just left the possibility of all of them being pale there. it could not be the case as well. personally I like to think they all are. bc we know Wyrms like to build civilizations. and Pale beings are said to be obsessed with ruling over others. it would be a fitting trait for a species of kingdom-making gods

while Dream HBs seem to be more spiritual in nature and they usually rule over tribes (like rad) or specific, more natural areas (Unn) but not advanced societies

[primal bridge]

I have been very curious whether wyrms can or can’t die because it seems to be saying both at once

Like did pk actually bite it or is he still around in some weaker form

[pure inlet]

No he actually died

He was too full of grief and it’s doubtful he could transform again it was a weird process

Bardoon says the Wyrm’s like is gone and while this could mean there’s still some transformed ones around the dialogue would be a little weird in that case

[primal bridge]

Is this canon or what because lore is so sparse I don’t know a single thing

[pure inlet]

Fair

It’s not explicitly confirmed by dialogue that he is dead

Just that he’s disappeared which is true

But the Vessel project is described as his great regret

[primal bridge]

I mean it really would be

[pure inlet]

And his corpse’s dream nail dialogue has him forego his mantra of “No cost too great” for “…” showing that he didn’t actually believe it

He sacrificed tons of his eggs and sent his child away to save millions of future lives and it failed

He was presumably distraught

Not in a position to reincarnate

[primal bridge]

Is it wrong of me to actually feel bad for homie he had no choice but to inflict infinite suffering to evade infinite suffering

[pure inlet]

No it’s not wrong

And while the vessel project was obviously bad in a vacuum it’s technically finite suffering to preserve infinite suffering

It was a moral action

And it wasn’t his fault it failed

WL says PV was tarnished but she’s also wrong about us being pure in the same sentence

So that possibility might have always existed

[brazen shoal]

Lore

It works

[hot lily]

I mean her judgment is demonstrably inconsistent/unfalsifiable

[autumn dome]

I mean neither of us can prove where the battle occured, but we can prove that PK, an actual Wyrm, adressed as the White Wyrm, while the singular mention of the Blackwyrm from WD refers to it as Blackwyrm. Could have been a beast that was very big and was seen as Wyrm-esque. Could have been a bug with a big ass ego. Could have been an order of people. But it wasn't a Wyrm, because then, WD would have referred to it as " the Black Wyrm"

[hot lily]

yeah basically that

[obsidian dust]

Guys what is the hunter I forgot

[wanton zephyr]

The hunter

Some big guy who hunts

With a journal where he documents his catches

[clever ginkgo]

Kills / encounters / observations (he didn’t catch hornet)

[ruby lotus]

some of them are also generic observations that TK associates with things it sees that hunter never has

[rugged cloud]

my question lies in the wyrms as well, because we have a scond wyrm carcass in kingdom's edge containing the colosseum of fools. Could this be connected to said Blackwyrm? I know TK is familiar with the pale king's shell(COS), and finds the king's brand there.

What I don't know is where the socond wyrm fits into all of this. Maybe it's the dead ruler on the throne in the colosseum?

Aditionally, bardoon tells us he is much to small to be a wyrm, but is very large himself. The colosseum has a beginning and and end, and seems quite a bit smaller(or at least shorter) than the pale king's prior form.

Any ideas?

[clever ginkgo]

The coliseum has legs at is entrance. The pale wyrm doesn’t

[ruby lotus]

it’s not a wyrm carcass

[cerulean elm]

Huh?

[indigo venture]

I mean we don't see another wyrm carcass in the whole game

Just PK's

So maybe the battle of the Blackwyrm just doesn't involve a Wyrm whatsoever

[primal bridge]

Pale king was actually kinda understandable to me, it was either let everyone die to the infection or create a vessel to seal the radiance, either option caused lots of pain

[cerulean elm]

I lwk don't understand the lore, but inflicting infinite suffering to avoid infinite suffering is kinda useless

[primal bridge]

I think he was also scared of losing his kingdom which influenced the choice, everything he cared about vs hypothetical people is a choice that’s easy to make but hard to follow up on

There’s a lot of repetition of Hallownest “lasting eternal” especially when it comes to the sacrifices of PV and the dreamers which is why I think he didn’t want it to ever fade away

[signal marlin]

PK didnt intend to "inflict infinite suffering"

[heavy trail]

no mind to think
no voice to cry suffering

[pliant warren]

is there any lore reason as to why Zote doesn't say the word "eye" anymore?

[sand stump]

But he didn't 😭

[cerulean elm]

Idk man I am just saying that off of someone's massage

[sand stump]

idk, I always assumed it was because "eye" is a very Human term, while the Bugs kinda just have sockets

[heavy trail]

massage

[pliant warren]

meanwhile No Eyes

[heavy trail]

lwk jealous

[sand stump]

Yeah

I don't really know

The humble Team Cherry making No Eyes "No Socket Lookers"

[pliant warren]

lol

[broken plover]

quick question what's the purpose of the queens station in lore

[indigo venture]

For Pilgrims iirc

The Pilgrim's passed through Queen's Station

Or wtv it's called

"Pilgrim's Way"

[wanton zephyr]

Maybe the Queen use it

[indigo venture]

[broken plover]

k ty

[valid rapids]

It was just a really big hub station similar to Kings Station

[broken plover]

no clue waht kings station is

[valid rapids]

you'll find it later

[broken plover]

ya i assumed

[rugged comet]

Markoth - After battle - Markoth Defeat

Never... have I been defeated in combat.
I can... see myself there, still sleeping. How long have I been hidden here?
Here at the edge of the world, no-one could find me... except you.
Warriors, knights, kings, even time itself... they have no power over me. Only you.
You are the darkness... come to consume me.

@gtagguy6000 used /npcs dream-warriors name: Markoth category: After battle dialogue: Markoth Defeat

[regal topaz]

screw u

[pseudo glen]

The knight dies

[hot lily]

it eventually dies in 2 endings, survives in 2 others, and is indeterminate in another

[pseudo glen]

||It never truly dies, it never truly lives, in the end, it's just like a shadow (dragón)||

[hot lily]

i mean...it "lives" in the sense that it is an agent within a world

what do you mean

[pseudo glen]

Like a dragon

[hot lily]

THK and Sealed Siblings

[silent verge]

he isn't dead he just contains the radiance

[hot lily]

not permanently, i.e. they will eventually die just like THK

[pseudo glen]

The hollow knight

[clever ginkgo]

Annother vessel might kill the knight, given enough time

[hot lily]

that's irrelevant, they're going to die regardless in that ending

[clever ginkgo]

did i say that the knight was going to survive?

[twin kiln]

Is zote peak male physique

[clever ginkgo]

yes

[safe prairie]

yes

[twin kiln]

Good to know

[clever ginkgo]

some wish to reach his level, but none can parallel his male physique

[signal marlin]

serrara isnt responding as if you did, rather just saying that the hypothetical wasnt relevant

[split compass]

I believe in you, little knight

but it's still better if Radiance just dies

[pseudo glen]

Hollow knight

[glass swift]

[obsidian dust]

[silk tinsel]

omg i just lored but was kinda skipping through

2400 essence talking to Seer

the essence is a light that her people worshiped long ago

but then a new light came in the form of a king

still not sure entirely how the essence is connected to the radiance but this knowledge is very nice

ah, she explains a few text boxes later

[split compass]

gotta wait until you're sure all the lore is done

[keen topaz]

Swap that with the radiance and you've got it right

[charred yarrow]

Like isn't the knight alive

He was there in silksong

As like a void being

[uncut surge]

If we assume monomon is a jellyfish and herra a weaver

Then tf is lurien

[jade crow]

Normal bug like those u find in CoT with small knife?

[wanton zephyr]

He’s just some guy

Who’s probably like
Rich
Seeing as he has a spire and retainers

[autumn dome]

You honestly can headcanon it to be just about anything, but most likely is what K said

[autumn dome]

Once again

Bardoon is right there, and he only ever speaks of Kingdom's Edge being the resting spot of a singular Wyrm corpse

Plus we see what that wyrm corpse looks like, which isn't at all what CoF corpse looks like

[wanton zephyr]

The way that was 18h ago..

[autumn dome]

The way that timezones + sleep + a job work are crazy, am I right

[wanton zephyr]

Yea but like you don’t have to reply to it… that convo has long passed

Anyway chat do you think White Lady will ever undo her bonds

[flat rune]

team cherry need to answer that , because nobodies knows what happened after the real ending

[flat rune]

most likely yes but most of the kingdome civilisation is dead , maybe Ogrim and Ze'mer when the infection is done they will look for the white lady and fix things up in hallownest cuz the danger is gone

[charred yarrow]

Ya idk

[timber void]

I doubt it, she is seemingly immortal so she will probably stay there until something happens to her i guess

[hot lily]

hallownest is dead forever

[light void]

Dirtmouth has like 8 residents, so I’d consider Hallownest pretty dead

Would you consider your gc a civilization?

[modest cipher]

sure buddy

[modest cipher]

with the occasional sentient bug in the depths like Fluke Hermit and Ogrim

lol

[ruby lotus]

Collo Fools are most likely infected

Correct, they’re most likely infected

[light void]

Yeah, but Hallownest was one kingdom. Those are just individual groups and people. Hallownest was a specific kingdom within the land we play in. The mantis tribe wasn’t a part of that

Fair enough, but I think the only people who’d be interested in expanding at this point are the mantises since they’re the only organized group

[hot lily]

What made the kingdom what it was, was PK himself - and he's dead

Him and the kingdom were commonly seen as one and the same

[autumn dome]

Not happening most likely

At least any time soon

She is going extremly out of the way to not breed again, to the point of weakening and leaving herself near blind, entirely out of shame of tossing an incalculable number of her children into the Abyss, cursing them to unlife, seemingly dooming all but one, only for to use that single one to seal away all their troubles

And fail at that

So like, I really doubt she ever plans on having children again

[autumn dome]

Even worse, Dirtmouth residents are mostly composed of adventurers and explorers which isn't really a sustainable method for population growth, Dirtmouth will most likely forever remain just a point for supplies, information or rest, not a permanent settlement

[blissful crest]

yeah

the binds are a self inflicted punishment but they also exist for her protection

I believe after the infection ceases she might consider it

[bold beacon]

This is a channel just for hollow knight story?

[blissful crest]

Yes

[bold beacon]

Type the whole story

[flat rune]

No , actually not, we have no evidence that the infected bugs will die after radiance death, maybe they can heal, and if they did that not the end of Hallownest . However if they die there is still remaining bugs , mantis, and Uun still alive so he can create life in greenpath again + there's a message from team cherry through the change of last stag name to the old stag so there's still stag alive that will benefit hallownest again in the future

[light void]

Well most of the infected bugs we see were already corpses brought to life

[hot lily]

I need to be more specific: the kingdom of Hallownest is gone and isn't coming back, because what made Hallownest what it was, was the Pale King. Not only is he dead, but a lot of the infrastructure for said kingdom is totally ruined and countless people around the area are dead

[vale oyster]

Id recommend a yt video covering the whole lore

[hot lily]

The Old Stag having a successor doesn't mean that the kingdom is back, only that his lineage isn't extinct

[hot lily]

also yes we absolutely have evidence proving that Infection is inevitably fatal past a certain point regardless of Radiance's fate

[flat rune]

Well bring one

[flat rune]

I know pale king dead, but I'm talking about the kingdome, there's still smart bugs regardless than the bugs who got benefit from pk ability " mind expanding" and the queen is alive it's cannot stay there in her cage for ever

[blissful crest]

No

[blissful crest]

well yeah but it’s not gonna be hallownest

[autumn dome]

As others have said the Kingdom of Hallownest is dead. Other stuff may come but like, it won't be what the Pale King made, but rather, built on top of it.

Unn is out of the game. She's retired. She did her thing once, and she's done now– Im fairly certain even before the infection her presence was already diminishing. Also, yes, the Old Stag is not the last Stag but... it doesn't really mean any surviving stags should be forced to be trained for the sake of a dead kingdom. They are doing their thing now, most likely.

[blissful crest]

It’d be something new if anything was made

[hot lily]

a new kingdom could be founded in the area however it's not going to be Hallownest

[mighty dove]

Unn is also the goat tho

[autumn dome]

She is fr fr

[wanton zephyr]

Do you think the area of Hallownest was called Hallownest before the kingdom of Hallownest was founded?

[autumn dome]

Exactly. For now, the City of Tears is in somewhat reusable position, if the ceiling doesn't break, it's excellent real state for new settlers, especially once you clean all the corpses

Also I'd like to state I speake from a DNM perspective. There's certainly better odds for any sort of settlement forming in the Godhome Endings (but only if the Dreamers end their slumber once the Black Egg vanishes)

[tepid linden]

also the new settlers would need to install safety measures in the city

[autumn dome]

For real

[tepid linden]

imagine you are chilling in your house and then it falls down

or even worse, all the water from the lake falls directly to the city

[autumn dome]

Probably burn away any and all readable research in the Soul Sanctum as well, if im being honest

[bold beacon]

After done first time 112 what i should do?

I mean finish the whole game

[autumn dome]

Steel soul?

[blissful crest]

even then like
95% of their people are dead

[autumn dome]

Do all achievements

[blissful crest]

the majority of infected creatures are reanimated corpses

[autumn dome]

Yeah yeah im aware

Just that I have better hopes of Lurien managing a settlement of any kind than yk

Elderbug

[blissful crest]

lurien’s a bum who watches people for a living

[autumn dome]

Not the fraud allegations 😭

[autumn dome]

Better than Elderfraud who gets pissy if you dont gift him a flower he thinks he is entitled to

Actually thinking about it Monomon is the one who went about it most smartly, Lurien simply had a personal guard set for protection, which is tough but not impossible– Herrah banked on Deepnest being a death trap for most, but as we see, toss someone as competent as the knight, and she is done, but Monomon would have been impossible to finish without Quirrel.

(Im aware practically no one could foresee the dream nail, but still, they wouldn't have set up as many defense if they believed just their seals could protect them)

[wanton zephyr]

I mean
I think they were aware that the seals can be broken into
If not the need for THK to be able to fight to protect itself wouldn’t exist

[hot lily]

eh Godhome endings could also work

[tepid linden]

then one of the few people that would live in Hallownest would be THK

[pseudo lodge]

The City is literally flooding. Maybe slow, but it will not take long till most of the City will be drowned in water.

[carmine linden]

Gus

[autumn dome]

My thing with that is that the pathways that lead to Ancient Basin, Kingdom's Edge and the Waterways are right there, so– unless the amount of water is exuberant, is it a realistic prospect?

The Hollow Knight

Like maybe it'll get a couple of meters higher, but it'll trickle down

[pseudo lodge]

The Waterways are usually locked and the entrance of Kingdoms Edge is in a more isolated place from the water. Sure, maybe Ancient Basin, but the water will then already be meters over the current floor, making it difficult to wander

Maybe you can still live there, but its probably not recommended for new settlers

or atleast not recommended for unexperienced ones

[autumn dome]

If we assume a Godhome ending then the entrance of the waterways necessarily ought to have been opened, but yeah I agree with you– On top of the fact that any surviving flukes might quickly populate bottom areas of the city

[tepid linden]

or they would simply try to live in Deepnest

(good luck to them)

[pseudo lodge]

Bugs that want to live in Deepnest are either really brave or really stupid, either way good luck to them

[foggy moon]

is it js me or traitor lord was one of the mantis lords thats why theres a broken throne in the mantis lords arena aka entrance to deepnest from mantis village

[sand stump]

yeah he was one of the lords

[foggy moon]

[sand stump]

Idk
Maybe its some crazy hint that Zote is an endless deity that can break into the Godseekers by pure will alone, and with that will can persist and twist themselves far beyond their normal abilities to constantly come back and even hurt the king of the Void

[valid rapids]

God Tamer deserves a title card then

[hot lily]

EO isn't canon

it's not acknowledged by the Godseekers in any capacity and violates how Godhome seems to work

That's not an argument considering he completely lacks godly resonance

no, however they do not have to explicitly state something is or isn't canon for us to determine that

it still has godly resonance

the Watcher Knights are corpses piloted by infected flies

[valid rapids]

Tbh I just dont think theres any lore relevance to something not part of the game's workd

Its like applying lore relevance to the title screen backgrounds

Or number of save files

[near sequoia]

Infected title screen showcases TK getting infected proving its not pure

[unkempt roost]

if dashmaster looks like sans but sans isnt from the hk universe, then it cant be his. however, grimmchild looks like grimm so that must mean that grimm gave you the grimmchild charm. surely this is new lore.

[safe prairie]

just admit it bro it wasn't intentional

[heady meadow]

My head canon for the reason why pv lost to rad is because of his bigass body getting in the way

[low palm]

Bro didn’t have shade cloak

Or ddark

[heady meadow]

He kinda does

Maybe just without the I frames

[split compass]

lies! lies and slander!
they just got the Radiance stuck in there

[hot lily]

it isn't misinfo at all
the presence of Infection within a Vessel shows it is not pure, it's an intentional parallel to the game's intro sequence

left is the game's intro sequence, right is the Infected title screen - they are identical in structure

[twin kiln]

Could zote solo the hungry knight

[hot lily]

Hungry Knight isn't canon to the game

[split compass]

does this mean that people will finally stop claiming that the Hollow Knight isn't actually infected and it's just 'the Radiance's power?'

[hot lily]

unlikely

no, because Mr Mushroom's reference to it is metacontextual

they are not meant to be interpreted as literal, in-universe references

[alpine kindle]

https://tenor.com/view/hollow-knight-gun-hollow-knight-hollow-knight-eyebrowns-gif-18404585

[pseudo lance]

https://tenor.com/view/jesus-ballin-mars-bars-gif-19910027

[alpine kindle]

https://tenor.com/view/hollow-knight-gun-hollow-knight-hollow-knight-eyebrowns-gif-18404585

NOOOOOOOOOO

[pseudo lance]

No image perms rip

[ruby lotus]

embed perms, not image perms

[pseudo lance]

if you lack image perms without the 300 message requirement you also cant send gifs

[eternal nova]

Huge lore drop!
Grimm is a bat.

[thorn drum]

You don't say?

[signal marlin]

no he isnt

[neat kite]

He is vampire moth or something like that

[signal marlin]

no thats further from being true

[wanton zephyr]

Fantasy bug

That’s what he is

[vale oyster]

Vampire-like

[split compass]

cinnabar moth

(not really, he's an undefined bug with dracula-like qualities)

[keen topaz]

Grimm is Grimm

[wild cypress]

How does the hunter know abt thr hollow knight

And the siblings

The shade too

Amd the dream warriors

Stuff that he probably didnt have access to

[remote bramble]

Because his notes are just vague stuff that the knight attributed to those enemies

[pseudo lodge]

He probably doesn't. The Hunters note says in for example the Siblings that he only heard that there was something living in the Abyss

[wild cypress]

"uhhhh... dark thing with glowly eyes"
holy shit this guy is so good!

[pseudo lodge]

About THK probably because of the giant statue in City of Tears

Also we don't know how old the Hunter is, maybe he's here since the kingdom existed.

[marble birch]

The Hunter is indeed old as dirt, he’s been around long enough to have seen pretty much everything and anything down in the deepest depths of Hallownest, though it’s unlikely he’s been to the Abyss given the sheer hostility of that place.

[distant cloud]

w

hi

[rare pewter]

Cool theory. Could he be like a traitor?

[wanton zephyr]

Doubtful he’s a weaver

Stalking devouts have 6 eyes and they def are not weavers

Weavers have no relative (aside from unique cases such as Hornet) since they are practically unable to have children

Not actual weavers that’s for sure

Could be fleeting silk constructs that’s unable to sustain themselves after a while

Who knows

I mean the charm has to resummon them continuously but I can’t say if that’s a gameplay or a lore thing

[valid rapids]

Hunter has HANDS

And only 4 limbs weavers have like 6+

[junior magnet]

Im curious is Pure Vessel just the Hollow Knight before being sealed or Is PV the HK if he was theoretically the perfect vessel

[valid rapids]

Its before being sealed

[hot lily]

Former

[rugged comet]

Godseeker - Pantheon of the Knight - First Encounter

Show reverence, o meagre one. Show fear! Thou approacheth a great and terrible God.
Though its worldly body be bound and defiled, the glory of its pure form endures, ruler of this pantheon. Its endless power shall attune Us to the one greater still, a God of Gods!
Meagre one, dost thou imagine thyself the equal of this God? Dost thou imagine thyself made in its image? Thou assume a similar shape, and the deep echo within thee seems familiar...
Ahh! What thoughts are these? Thou sow blasphemies in Our mind, wretch! Begone! We pray that the God of nothingness silence thee forever!

@mushspore used /npcs quest name: Godseeker category: Pantheon of the Knight dialogue: First Encounter

[valid rapids]

Though its worldly body be bound and defiled, the glory of its pure form endures

[junior magnet]

Thx

[remote bramble]

They're just infected

Primal aspids likely existed before the infection but they werent infected back then

They just got infected afterwards

[remote bramble]

Well there were cut silksong aspid enemies and they had yellow stomachs

So probably something like that

[keen citrus]

hello one question can someone explain me what were the wirm (the race of the pale king)

[broken plover]

hi im wondering what the lore reason the stuff in the waterways is so weird

[sand stump]

a big race of a bunch of different Higher Beings

[sand stump]

Don't think there is a known one

[keen citrus]

like what ???

[broken plover]

hmm interesting

[sand stump]

The Wyrms are all Higher Beings

[keen citrus]

a okokok

thks

[remote bramble]

Ancient creatures who would create kingdoms and also had foresight, yet all of them died out

[broken plover]

is the radiance a boy or girl

[blissful crest]

parasites tend to be weird

[broken plover]

oh so they parasites

[blissful crest]

yes

[red glen]

radiance is a she

[broken plover]

then why do people call her he or him

[red glen]

I've never seen that

only she/her

[broken plover]

no i mean on vids and stuff

[red glen]

they just wrong :(

[broken plover]

wow

[red glen]

I think the lore community here can confirm what I'm saying?

I don't think we ever get a gender for Radiance in the game but a translation implied that she's female so we took that as canon

i think it was that

[pseudo lodge]

Not sure what you mean by "stuff". If you're talking about the Flukes, they're worm parasites with the only goal to breed and give birth to more. If you're talking about Ismas Grove, when Isma, one of the five knights, somehow died, a part of the Waterways became Overgrown and full with the acid water. The Dung Defender protects her body, only letting people in that can best him in combat.

[broken plover]

i was wondering why theuy look so freaky idk what they are called i jsyt unlocked area

[pseudo lodge]

Not sure if the Radiance has a gender, but it looks more like a she for me

[broken plover]

lol

[pseudo lodge]

Ok you're probably talking about the Flukes. Real Life Worms kinda can still live when cut in half, so that's why they can be scary since they are still alive when beaten and jumpscare you. Why they have teeth though beats me

Understandable

[broken plover]

also whats with the thing with like the pink things coming out their backs deal

idk the name sorry

[pseudo lodge]

The Flukemarm is basically the mother of all the Flukes, a fat worm that's only purpose is breeding.

[broken plover]

it dont realy look like a fluke tho

[pseudo lodge]

Ok now I'm not sure what you're talking about.

Are you still in Waterways?

[broken plover]

ya

[humble current]

This is not lore, people

[pseudo lodge]

It kinda is, we're talking about the lore of the Flukes.

[humble current]

Oh I didn't read up I'm sorry :(

[pseudo lodge]

Or whatever enemy he encountered

No problem

[wanton zephyr]

We don’t based stuff on translations cuz the original language of the game is in English, and translations can vary from inconsistent to straight up wrong

Radiance is referred to as “she” in the developer’s notes, that’s why

[ruby heath]

jabronis can one of you give me a quick rundown on the pale king and randiance thing

[valid rapids]

Radiance existed, made the Moth tribe, moths worshipped her
Pale King shows up, fickle moths choose to join him and intentionally try to forget the Radiance, which would seal her away
Small sect of moths continues remembering and worshipping her at Hallownests Crown
Radiance eventually gets into the dreams of Hallownest bugs, starts the infection in her rage

[ruby heath]

thx

also what is wyrm it keeps being mentioned ing

[wanton zephyr]

It’s what the pale king is

A wyrm
You can see his decaying corpse in kingdom’s edge

[hot lily]

dev notes aren't necessarily canon so Radiance should be addressed with neuter pronouns for the most accuracy

[indigo venture]

Dev-notes are often to not be trusted or taken too seriously, some straight up go against what is said

[narrow thistle]

can confirm

[indigo venture]

Flukemarm is also a nest for young flukes

[wanton zephyr]

He’s not

[red glen]

ohhh it was dev notes! thanks

[hexed shadow]

Is the entire lore understood from the game? 🤔
Like for example, how do we know hornet's parents are the king and the dreamer whose name I forgot

[raw snow]

Its hinted in hollow knight, and is also expanded in silksong

[rugged comet]

White Lady - General - Listening after acquiring the King's Brand

It faced the Gendered Child? She's a fierce foe, strong in mind and body, striking reflection of her mother, though the two were permitted little time together.
I never begrudged the Wyrm's dalliance as bargain. In fact, I feel some affection for the creature birthed.
If your paths were ever to align, I imagine you might gain yourself a powerful ally.

@theplasma used /npcs quest name: White Lady category: General dialogue: Listening after acquiring the King's Brand

Midwife - General - King's Brand

My good friend. You wear that bright mark of relationship. Then you've met her perhaps? Her who'd guard the mark, the Gendered Child.
A spritely thing, isn't she? Pale gift to the Nest and the Beast, and fair trade for sacrifice made.
Long she's been distant. It'd do our spirits well were she to grace us a visit home...
...He hee. Oh. Hmm. I am sorry. Old memories cause my mind to wander on such silly diversions, especially when I'm oh so famished...

@theplasma used /npcs misc name: Midwife category: General dialogue: King's Brand

[remote bramble]

^

[hexed shadow]

ohh thanks!

[mighty dove]

It’s so fucking gross 😭

Still somehow the most alluring boss ever or smth

[blissful crest]

Stop.

[cerulean elm]

Aww

[vale oyster]

There are some things we have no idea about

Like what is a monarchfly

What is the battle of the blackwyrm

[timber void]

I think those come from white lady hinting at her birth, aswell as the weavers and midwife in deepnest continually talking about fair bargain made. And without spoiling anything for silksong, it is confirmed that the Pale King is Hornets father

[indigo venture]

I thought you died ngl

wsg

[vale oyster]

Cloth gaming went to the traitor lord arena

[hot lily]

It's confirmed in HK as well

[mighty dove]

https://klipy.com/gifs/megamind-metroman-6

[wanton zephyr]

Arent those what’s around the
The monarch wings

[vale oyster]

Monarch wings are the wings of a monarchfly

But we have nothing else on monarchflies

[wanton zephyr]

Yea but around the statue of the monarch wings

There are glowing insects

Arent those monarch flies

[vale oyster]

Send me a screenshot

[vale oyster]

Oh

You're right

[timber void]

I know, but i mean like directly stated, instead of talking crypticly about it 🤣

[hot lily]

It's directly stated in HK too

Via WL

[timber void]

Yeah yeah, daliance and all that, love creature birthed

As i already said

[valid rapids]

...Bound...For brood...For child... ...Fair bargain made... ...Give all... ...For her... ...For her... ...For her...

Herrah's dialogue pretty explicitly aligns with the other 2 dialogues bringing them together

Also Hornet

...Mother... Forgive my inaction... but another path may be possible...

[valid rapids]

I wonder if Hornet was intended as the Beasts Den guardian

[near sequoia]

in development or in universe

[valid rapids]

With her being a gift to the Nest and taking the blame for her intentionally not stopping the intruder who is killing Dreamers

In universe

[near sequoia]

||Seems like that was what the weavers were intending but not Herrah||

||Weaver, guardian, queen... Those are their desires... not your own. Certainly not mine...||

[timber void]

She probably didn't return to deepnest untill after Herrah was killed as said by midwife

[valid rapids]

Hence why I said intended

[timber void]

True, but i doubt they were thinking of making her a fighter, seems like thats the path she chose for herself

[valid rapids]

...right, ss retcon :agony:

Didnt they at keast teach her silk spear and silks torm

[timber void]

Whys it a retcon though?

[valid rapids]

Vespa training Hornet made no sense with the Hive isolating itself

And Hornet uses confirmed weaver spells (one of which requires her needle) implying they trained her

[hexed shadow]

well I've been doing some more research on this part and saw that I missed out on a meeting with hornet that I should have achieved when I killed(?) herrah... (I saw this on youtube lol) there hornet calls the "beast" her mother

[mighty dove]

This is not true btw

[vale oyster]

Doesn't the game manual say that?

[mighty dove]

God it has been a while but I do believe the manual itself has dubious canonicity

[vale oyster]

I didn't even know that a manual existed

[vale oyster]

Its the only mention of monarchflies ever, so what could it conflict with anyway

[rugged comet]

Inventory item: Monarch Wings

Wings of ethereal matter that shimmer in the darkness. Allows one to jump again in mid-air.

@kingoclowns used /inventory category: Ability item: Monarch Wings

[mighty dove]

Well, what corroborates it either

But also I will have to look into this further because... lemme just find the old messages

[vale oyster]

Alright

Referring to the ancient scriptures 🔥

[mighty dove]

Ok so powdered (the mod that kept track of this channel until they mysteriously left, unfortunately) said that the manual is kinda just outdated info in terms of lore

So it is allegedly outdated

[vale oyster]

Oh

[mighty dove]

I really do not remember why though

[indigo venture]

Monarchfly discussion

[wanton zephyr]

Monarchfly discussion

In any case, what are those glowy insects if not monarchflies

Just decorations..?

[vale oyster]

The flies near monarch wings support the monarchfly stuff from the manual

[vale oyster]

Was this a regular discussion during prime hk lore?

[wanton zephyr]

I think it’s just a mildly more memorable discussion

[mighty dove]

You must be so happy rn

[mighty dove]

Idk if it was prime hk lore but Powdered was there so maybe so

Obvs prime hk lore would be have been shortly after release or maybe after the content packs

[hot lily]

It's outdated but it's still presumed to be fact unless it's contradicted by anything that was later released

[mighty dove]

Hmmm I would put that much more into question

[indigo venture]

Kicking my feet in glee

[hot lily]

again it's not contradicted

[foggy apex]

Team cherry when they never thought of any of that:

[mighty dove]

Yeah but we should apply scrutiny to unreliable sources

[hot lily]

scrutiny does not equal to "always dismiss or accept"

[indigo venture]

Bold of you to imply you were in HK-Lore Prime

But yeah as outdated as the source is, it's still a source

And the only real answer

[wanton zephyr]

I know you weren’t excited because it was a prime HK lore discussion

[tranquil zenith]

I feel stupid for asking this cuz Grimm is my favorite character in all of hollow knight, but are nkg and grimm the same perosn? the game treats it as if they aren't but they share the same name and abilities, ik nkg is like the avatar of the nightmare's heart but im just confused here

[hot lily]

they are in the sense that they are the same consciousness

[tranquil zenith]

Okay that makes sense

[mighty dove]

Yeah but still

[wanton zephyr]

I mean
What constitutes a source as outdated if it was never disproven?

[indigo venture]

"What if they changed their minds"

Basically the same argument people that think the "All Endings are Canon" statement should no longer hold weight due to it being old

[wanton zephyr]

That is something both you and I cannot know

[indigo venture]

Exactly

If it is not openly disproven or said to be no longer truth, then the statement/information holds as valid "Evidence"

[wanton zephyr]

Which makes me think of the dev notes

Some things in there are no longer true later, but what about the things that were not disproven?

Are those still true? Or do we disregard the dev notes as a whole?

[near sequoia]

Stuff in the files was never intended to be seen and Team Cherry has gone on record saying that the stuff outside of the game and official sources isn't canon