hk-help

[ripe laurel]

[uncut iris]

you want to get attacks in via counterattacks.

[hushed socket]

[uncut iris]

have ||great slash|| prepared at all times except when he performs ||cyclone slash||

@ripe laurel just read this for tips

[ripe laurel]

holy paragraph

im fucking up on ||grimm|| because im used to ||nkg|| fuck

[uncut iris]

relatable

when you fight the harder variant long enough the normal version feels a LOT more sluggish.

||failed champion and knight||

[ripe laurel]

im practicing this fucker on ||ascended||

[ripe laurel]

its the fucking fire bird attack thing

when he shoots out the red things

[uncut iris]

||fire bats? just double jump||

you can hit him with a "market garden" with ||great slash||

[ripe laurel]

mmh

[uncut iris]

or do you mean against ||nkg||

for him you wanna go inbetween

[ripe laurel]

i ||dash|| above them to beat his ass usally but im used to going inbetween and it fucks me up becase im used to it being different

should i do the ||bindings||?

[uncut iris]

spoiler that
and i wouldn't really recommend doing that if you're not experienced enough with ||pantheons||

if you can, there is a good incentive to doing it

completing unique ||bindings per pantheon|| introduces ||lifeblood cocoons to pantheons! they can have 3-5 lifeblood seeds depending on how many bindings you've done (except for p5) and they will appear at bench checkpoints for all pantheons||

[uncut iris]

||you don't have to do all at once, one at a time works||

[ripe laurel]

i know, thats why i think i should do it to make ||pantheon 3|| easier

[uncut iris]

sure

[ripe laurel]

i knos

ok!

doesnt ||unbreakable strength|| just entierly ||debuff|| the whole ||binding|| itself or is that a myth

[rancid niche]

It helps

[uncut iris]

||nail binding caps your damage at 13, equivalent to channeled nail; unbreakable strength increases your nail damage to 20 in this case||

[topaz wadi]

*sigh "another come back later" spot? i am starting to get stuck fr, my map is peppered with markers for spots that i cant pass *

[ripe laurel]

ahh ok

[crude cliff]

For everywhere you cant go, there is a place you can
Very good to mark them as you did

[ripe laurel]

wait until very late game

[topaz wadi]

thats categorically untrue

[crimson mortar]

So if you got there with base nail, it would actually increase your damage?

[crude cliff]

Depends
If I am counting in blocked area size, you can go to a lot

[uncut iris]

capped

[crimson mortar]

Oh

[crude cliff]

3 iirc

[uncut iris]

if you for some reason ||have a nail weaker than coiled nail it decreases your damage to 80%||

[topaz wadi]

i am tracing the edges of every area like a maze, the amount of dead ends is staggering

[crude cliff]

That certain dead end is not necessary anytime soon

[uncut iris]

there is a way to get to ||cornifer|| from the other side but you need another ability for that

[crude cliff]

Spoiler ||I skipped it entirely and got max completion||

[topaz wadi]

yeah, well, i seem to be short on abilities

[uncut iris]

dw it's easier to get

[crude cliff]

No, same ability

[uncut iris]

what do you have so far

[crude cliff]

||cornifer|| is surrounded by it

But you dont need the ability to do the thing you need to in the area

Therefore you need said other ability

[uncut iris]

i'm not gonna recommend ||crystal dash skips||

[crude cliff]

I meant ||ismas||

[uncut iris]

yes im talking about that ability

[crude cliff]

||cornifer is surrounded by shade gates||

Both sides

[topaz wadi]

||cloak and spirit|| thats it, i havent been able to find anything else, because i cant fucking go anywhere lol

[uncut iris]

okay you should go back

[crude cliff]

Down should lead you somewhere

[uncut iris]

yeah back and then down

[topaz wadi]

i have already been through everywhere that i could in ||fungal wastes||

more dead ends

[craggy goblet]

These require the ||shade cloak|| found in ||the abyss||

[uncut iris]

there's another area near that place btw

[crude cliff]

That area has a vital thing

[uncut iris]

it gives a cool item

[crude cliff]

Which you have access to

[uncut iris]

are you sure

[topaz wadi]

idk man

[uncut iris]

you only mentioned two abilities you have

[crude cliff]

?tag uncspoilers

[languid radish]

🔹 An unnecessary spoiler is a spoiler (even a tagged one!) that was not directly requested by the user being helped, such as help referencing in-game content that the player has not necessarily reached - Charms build containing Charms they haven’t found, for example. These spoilers, though generally good-intentioned, can harm a player’s experience as any other spoiler would. Remember the game is non-linear; Always make sure to know what a player has and where they’ve reached. A simple screenshot of their map and inventory would tell you all you need to know.

[uncut iris]

can you show your full map

specifically ||fungal wastes||

[crude cliff]

Mostly because they already implied they werent close

[craggy goblet]

I’m sorry

[ripe laurel]

ok you are beginner game

[crude cliff]

You good

[topaz wadi]

i dont see any more "doors" down here and the ||bouncy shrooms dont bounce high enough to get me over the terrain||

[crude cliff]

Plenty of places to go, you can go there

Regarding ||fungal wastes||

[crimson mortar]

Go down

You missed ||mantis village||

[uncut iris]

this is the way

[ripe laurel]

you couldve just said an area

[topaz wadi]

i havent "missed" anything, there are only areas i havent been to yet

[ripe laurel]

yes there has

[topaz wadi]

i will take another look, the red shell i put there because it looked impassable, i tried

[uncut iris]

well there is something you may have missed in ||fog canyon||

it's quite useful i say

not required

[topaz wadi]

||the bank? there is the cornifer path, the bank path, and then paths up and down, near as i could tell?||

[uncut iris]

nope

at the place where you missed ||cornifer|| there's another area nearby

[topaz wadi]

well, i cant have get the map for it so navigating it is annoying

[uncut iris]

down from the ||greenpath entrance|| go left instead

that's as much i can give without spoiling too much

or from ||queen's station just continue going northwest|| until you reach an area full of ||electric bugs||

[ripe laurel]

i beat the ||nail binding|| and now im doing the ||mask binding|| and its so much fucking easier

i can cheese them so easily

[kind orchid]

Any tips to beat the ||tier 3 grimm flame shits?||

I'm struggling 💔

[crimson mortar]

What are you struggling with bro

[kind orchid]

Y'know like after ||defeating Grimm?||

[ripe laurel]

yeah?

lock in

[kind orchid]

Those ||tier three flame holders||

[crimson mortar]

No, ik just like what attack are you struggling with?

[supple mountain]

we ALL hate them

[kind orchid]

Idfk the name💔

[kind orchid]

All-

Okay LISTEN ||double mask damage|| is crazy work

[ripe laurel]

mhm the ||grimmkin nightmare||s?

[crimson mortar]

Yep

[kind orchid]

||the fat ones yes||

[supple mountain]

attack when they do the diagonal ||fireballs||, try and pogo when they do the ||dash||

[ripe laurel]

wait til mf fights ||nkg||

[uncut iris]

you can ignore one of them btw

you technically only need to kill two of them at minimum

[kind orchid]

Don't fucking mention it twin😭

I'm already cooked as shit

[kind orchid]

And the ||third flame||?

[supple mountain]

||deepnest||

[uncut iris]

^

[ripe laurel]

i didnt beat him until monday

this week

[kind orchid]

No like why do I need only two

[uncut iris]

there's a reason why it's so far off from the three ones that are spaced closer to each other

[supple mountain]

yeah

lore

[uncut iris]

what i mean is that you only need to kill two ||grimmkin nightmares||

[kind orchid]

wait so I only need to consume two?

[uncut iris]

no

still three

if you notice on the map there's 4 ||grimmkin flames||

[kind orchid]

wait am I blind

[supple mountain]

yes

[topaz wadi]

||a seal, and another gate just like the previous one||

[uncut iris]

go back up then further left

[topaz wadi]

went up, and down left, what else is there

[uncut iris]

oh wait i'm stupid

you need to go to ||fungal wastes|| first to get the item i'm talking about

sorry

i need to talk to these wiki editors

but keep that area in ||fog canyon|| in mind

[topaz wadi]

if these keep mounting up my pea sized brain wont be able to keep up with this

[uncut iris]

@topaz wadi just do this for now

[balmy vessel]

what item are u talking about

[topaz wadi]

yeah i am already heading back there

[uncut iris]

||howling wraiths||

[balmy vessel]

oh

[uncut iris]

i just checked an online map

you need ||wall jump||

[balmy vessel]

|| it is in fog cannyon though||

[uncut iris]

yes but

[zenith raft]

Im trying to beat ||NKG||. I tried ||grimm|| on ||ascended|| 5 times. I beat it 3/5 times. Im a ready of ||NKG||?

[uncut iris]

maybe

it's better to just fight ||nkg on attuned||

[stone burrow]

hey y'all i saved ||bretta||

[balmy vessel]

nice

[zenith raft]

So i just do tbe fight normaly?

[balmy vessel]

go to her house in|| dirth mouth and u will get a madk shard||

[zenith raft]

Nice

[uncut iris]

i suppose so

[zenith raft]

Ok

[stone burrow]

i've heard ||zote steals her from me so any way in stopping that||

[topaz wadi]

so once again, not high enough

[zenith raft]

Pogo it

[zenith raft]

The mushrooms

[uncut iris]

you gotta bounce on the ||mushrooms|| by down-slashing them

like pink objects in cuphead yknow?

[topaz wadi]

sorry but how tf was i supposed to think of that?

[atomic vortex]

I remember being stuck there for 20 minutes till I looked it up

[balmy vessel]

there isnt but u can make her leavr making it so || zote|| doesnt have a girl

[topaz wadi]

what the actual fuck bro

[uncut iris]

it also works on most spikes

[topaz wadi]

zero explanation

[uncut iris]

we call it pogo

[vital trail]

i finally completed ||trail of fools||

[uncut iris]

well have you tried down-slashing normal enemies

[atomic vortex]

down slash everywhere and you'll see magic

[vital trail]

what is that closed door next to ||colloseum||

[stone burrow]

i mean it bounces you so the logical thing hit and see what happens

[topaz wadi]

this is ridiculous

[atomic vortex]

this is HK

[stone burrow]

is pogoing hard for you

[balmy vessel]

nah not really

[topaz wadi]

i like to think i generally approach stuff pretty logically, this is some moon logic type shit

[uncut iris]

which door

[stone burrow]

no it isnt

[uncut iris]

down slashing enemies make you go boing
down slashing bouncy thing make you go boing further

[uncut iris]

go down

[atomic vortex]

Don't worry it's normal
I also discovered||pogoing|| at this exact part

[uncut iris]

make sure to lower your volume

[vital trail]

ok lol

[uncut iris]

there is a good reason why.

[topaz wadi]

down slashing is never explained, it has not ever occurred to me to try that because if you are standing still its not a thing you can do, and up to this point there has been zero, zero reason to try it mid air

[left tusk]

Bruh what??

[atomic vortex]

man
Why are you mad about it just play the game and use the info you just discovered

[vital trail]

lmao

bro is doing it

[topaz wadi]

i am mad because i have spent 2 hours trying to look for a way forward because of an unintuitive barrier

[left tusk]

It's simple, ur weapon is metal, so anything that is metal can be pogoed on

[atomic vortex]

Like saws!

[stone burrow]

ooof

[vital trail]

why every soulslike alaways have atleast 1 npc moaning hard

[left tusk]

Just take ur time, and use youtube

[atomic vortex]

don't give us bad reputation 🙏

[low escarp]

There is a place in ||forgotten crossroads|| that imply you need to down pogo

[topaz wadi]

i have encountered areas where its clear i need ||wall jump||, taking the fact that this couldnt get me high enough, i concluded that maybe i needed it here to get over the last bit of height

[balmy vessel]

i dont think he’s gotten to it

[left tusk]

It's okay, he's trying

[vital trail]

lmao

i killed him

cant let bro finish

[balmy vessel]

u murrdered him

[topaz wadi]

no, i know the place they mean, i assumed i needed a different skill for that, like a ||ground slam|| or something

[balmy vessel]

oh

just pogo then

[atomic vortex]

||he meant the place where you find the grub||

[vital trail]

so thats it? ||i there no another harder level in coloseum||???

[atomic vortex]

Nope, ||trial of fools is the end|| congrats

[thorny lintel]

Tips for ||gay i mean great nail sage sly||?

[uncut iris]

you are a ||fool||

[atomic vortex]

||mark of pride|| and patience

[vital trail]

where is that place that let us refight bosses

[uncut iris]

read

[balmy vessel]

i thought he meant the area with || brooding mawlek||

[uncut iris]

||bottom left of the waterways||

[thorny lintel]

How the hell do i hit him when he keeps flying around

[uncut iris]

near the area with ||flukes||

[primal zodiac]

https://giphy.com/gifs/hollow-knight-hollowuser-degisikhesabmis-Tra7SLmdViyDkRwxSG

[atomic vortex]

Ohh that annoying ah part

[golden flower]

||great slash||

[uncut iris]

yeah you fight fire with fire

his disciples teach you the ways to beat him

[atomic vortex]

||I can't do him radiant because of that phase||

[thorny lintel]

I dont have time to charge it

[vital trail]

should go there before or after finishing the game

[atomic vortex]

After

[topaz wadi]

you know, if you could down slash while standing still, i would have realized that i could do it

[uncut iris]

you have enough time to charge before every attack

[vital trail]

ok

im just making sure i do all the cool bosses and stuff before i beat ||radiance||

[golden flower]

even if this was true just attack on every other window instead

[thorny lintel]

Dont you have to stand still and on the floor to charge?

[uncut iris]

it is very well intended to be done after you get everything

and i mean everything else

[balmy vessel]

what boss

[golden flower]

no

[uncut iris]

you just need to hold down attack

no need to be grounded. they can be performed mid-air

[thorny lintel]

||gay nailsage sly||

[vital trail]

should i beat ||nightmare grimm|| before ||radiance||

[balmy vessel]

K

[uncut iris]

sure why not

[atomic vortex]

If you want
||NKG the real king||

[vital trail]

real

thats the only peak boss i have fought yet

[thorny lintel]

||Radiance|| is ez

[atomic vortex]

my favourite out of silksong and HK

[vital trail]

||radiance is ez too but that ton of damage messes me up ||

[thorny lintel]

He or she idk is predictable asf

[atomic vortex]

||I died 2 times at the end of P5 in the abs radiance laser climb||
I'm going crazy

[uncut iris]

girl

[thorny lintel]

Arent we talking about norm ||rad and not abs rad||?

[vital trail]

||hollow knight fight is kindof depressing... bro is trying to end himself||

[atomic vortex]

yeah

[thorny lintel]

He is tryna help you

[atomic vortex]

He trying to help you

[topaz wadi]

youtube is out of the question

[thorny lintel]

I was first>:)

[vital trail]

||is there any ending where he survives||

[thorny lintel]

No

I mean

Maybe?

[vital trail]

sad

wdym maybe

[atomic vortex]

||Radiance ending||

[thorny lintel]

There is 1 ending i dont wanna spoil but not sure he survives in that

[uncut iris]

||godhome ending||

[atomic vortex]

Love that
Thank u very much ❤️

[left tusk]

Spoilers, I understand

[thorny lintel]

That was what i tought

[vital trail]

ill just save ||nks for last||

[left tusk]

Windette's vids helped me alot on my first playthrough

[atomic vortex]

Doesn't he also survive in ||radiance ending||?

[vital trail]

will quit this game with a peak fight

[topaz wadi]

its not even that, i am generally against using guides because it turns the game into a checklist as opposed to an organic experience

[uncut iris]

idk

[thorny lintel]

Who is¦¦ nks|| i have like 80 bosses to remember

[topaz wadi]

even if i miss some stuff, its still my own experience

[atomic vortex]

then you're gonna suffer badly

[vital trail]

||nightmare king grimm||

[golden flower]

||nkg|| typo

[balmy vessel]

he meant || nkg||

[uncut iris]

mmm you do you but there will eventually be points where you can't easily brute force certain stages without experience

[topaz wadi]

is the game that poorly designed?

[uncut iris]

no

unless you don't read

[topaz wadi]

i shouldnt need guides to play a game

[vital trail]

no its not even that hard

[thorny lintel]

No just rlly hard without the good stuff and too many places to go

[uncut iris]

the game is more intuitive than terraria

[golden flower]

it's perfectly playable blind

[uncut iris]

for comparison

[left tusk]

Windette does level by level guides, but he only does it for movement mechanics u need to progress as well as the map for each area, he purposefully leaves stuff out so u can explore and find anything else urself

[uncut iris]

that's a really low bar though probably not a good comparison

[vital trail]

never let bro play sekiro or dark souls if he is struggling in hk

[topaz wadi]

i managed my way through all 3 souls games and elden ring, and sekiro without any guides, i should be OK here

[atomic vortex]

uh
If you'd like to spend 2 hours to discover something simple you just missed normally you shouldn't watch guides
It just makes the game better and removes the "ragequit" part of it

[uncut iris]

elden ring tag

[vital trail]

yea that too but difficulty is subjective there

[uncut iris]

idk what's the difference

[vital trail]

elden ring gives u option to overpower yourself easily and cheese up bosses

that isnt the case is ds or sekiro

[topaz wadi]

i didnt use any cheese in ER

pure twinblade dancing

[uncut iris]

then you'll like the boss design of hk

[atomic vortex]

Also make sure to hit every single ceiling and wall ever to discover secret rooms
Because you're not gonna watch guides that did the same thing and made it better for everyone else

[uncut iris]

well

most bosses

[topaz wadi]

i didnt miss it, it wasnt explained at all

[uncut iris]

some are atrocious. just saying

[vital trail]

i doubt cuz if u have defeated hard bosses like dlc radahn u wouldnt be complaining about hollow knight

[topaz wadi]

not every boss in elden ring is peak design either so

[uncut iris]

fair enough

[vital trail]

so many are

[uncut iris]

anyways you got ||wall jump|| yet?

once you grab that, there are a LOT more ways to go from

not just one

but three

very non-linear progression

[topaz wadi]

you dont need to infer some inverse i never said from something i did say, obviously there are good bosses too

[atomic vortex]

Best thing about HK

[thorny lintel]

Whats ds i need a hard game to play that i can play for free with game pass and elden ring isnt in it

[golden flower]

dark souls

[atomic vortex]

Why are we arguing here
Just go enjoy the game

[vital trail]

dark souls

[uncut iris]

nintendo console dark souls

[vital trail]

3 specifically

1 and 2 arent hard theyre just unfair

[topaz wadi]

i dont know, what i am complaining about is poorly explained mechanics, nothing more. skill issue like poor platforming skill is my own problem, thats fine

[spring mesa]

You'll be more than fine. The game encourages exploration. If you come across something you can't do yet, then come back once you unlock a new ability.

[thorny lintel]

So is silksong and i 100% it

[uncut iris]

metroidvania rule

[atomic vortex]

Silksong is peak

[uncut iris]

if there is an area that seems accessible and you can't reach it, you aren't supposed to be there until you get a new ability

[thorny lintel]

Brother you think i dont know? I litteraly 100% it

[topaz wadi]

DS1 is absolutely fine, nothing unfair about it

[vital trail]

i think hollow knight still explains more stuff than elden ring or dark souls lol

llike there are obvious hints for everything in hk

[topaz wadi]

souls games explain their controls well enough

[spring mesa]

Nothing is poorly explained lol. If one can get through souls games without guides, then hk will be more than fine

[thorny lintel]

Why are there no hard games other than hk sk nine sols and dead cells (in game pass)

[atomic vortex]

Mio?

[uncut iris]

terraria on legendary mode

[atomic vortex]

oh game pass

[vital trail]

deadcells is so boring i dropped it

[thorny lintel]

I dont like terraria

[golden flower]

ultrakill on brutal is pretty punishing

[thorny lintel]

Same

[uncut iris]

that sucks

[thorny lintel]

I alr beat it other than fraud cus its too laggy

[topaz wadi]

apologies, you are correct, what i mean to say is its not explained at all

[vital trail]

if u want challange then try sekiro mods

[thorny lintel]

I play on xbox...

I have never played sekiro btw

[vital trail]

mistake

its such a peak game

[topaz wadi]

sekiro is one of the greatest games of all time

[thorny lintel]

Its not in game pass and i dont wanna pay for it rn

[vital trail]

is xbox cheaper than a laptop?

[thorny lintel]

I think xbox is drunk

[thorny lintel]

I have a laptop

[vital trail]

then why not play in it

[thorny lintel]

Its not very good

Its like 5 yrs old

What is xbox on bro sk is alr in gamepass

[spring mesa]

Hm? Care to elaborate? What do you not understand?

[vital trail]

i think it came on gamepass after some weeks of launch

[thorny lintel]

No its was in game pass when it came out im pretty sure

[vital trail]

i also had free game pass for a year and my 40hr hollow knight progression was in it

[topaz wadi]

i dont have any misunderstandings here, i am talking about downslashing, a mechanic that the game does not explain at any point

[vital trail]

but it ended so god knows how i managed to transfer my save file to cracked version

[uncut iris]

is this hk help

[sharp island]

can someone help me on ||Sly|| in ||P3||

[uncut iris]

yep it is

[spring mesa]

I don't believe everything has to be spoonfed to a player lol. If you can slash in all directions, one would naturally assume downslash exists as well.

[thorny lintel]

Yes

[golden flower]

every attack has a window to punish with a ||great/dash slash||

[uncut iris]

@sharp island here's tips

[sharp island]

out of all of the fights i’ve done in ||P3|| ||Uumuu|| is my least favorite

[small mortar]

||Uumuu in godhome|| is garbage i agree

[uncut iris]

WE Agree.

[small mortar]

bottom 5 bosses

He isnt even hard hes just annoying

[topaz wadi]

call it what you want, there are intuitive ways to introduce mechanics without spoonfeeding

[uncut iris]

worst rngfest ever

[uncut iris]

not ||zote||? that's quite surprising to hear

[thorny lintel]

Sence when ia cddz a survival game xbox

[spring mesa]

Haven't seen a single soul complaining about downslash not being explained before this 🥀

[golden flower]

this is because it is a good fight

[uncut iris]

yeah i like his fight actually

[sharp island]

on first save file i didn’t save ||zote|| or fight ||GPZ||

[thorny lintel]

Explanation:downslash slashes down

[spring mesa]

I'd say a spiked platform on all sides leading up to a || grub|| is an intuitive way to get players started on pogos

[sharp island]

yea i agree

[golden flower]

thats missable

[small mortar]

||zote|| is actually an amazing boss what are u on why would anyone hate ||gpz|| 😭

[spring mesa]

Multiple other instances, you're bound to encounter a situation which requires pogo at some point in a game

[uncut iris]

he's hated cause he's unpredictable, literally

but you can mitigate that factor

[golden flower]

||ab zote|| can suck sometimes, 1300 health with not one shot minions and double damage via ||volatile zotelings||
outside of that its fine

[untold schooner]

anyone can gimme tips for ||PATH OF PAIN||?

[small mortar]

Lowkey anything ||ab|| can suck balls

[topaz wadi]

spiked platforms are supposed to teach the player about downslashing? what

[golden flower]

its a fun playstyle

[topaz wadi]

thats next level cope

[uncut iris]

nothing much other than to get good

[untold schooner]

fuh

[brittle geyser]

can someone tell me who this is? is it a ||dream warrior||?

[topaz wadi]

why would it ever occur to a normal person to hit spikes below them

[uncut iris]

there isn't any combat

well

[small mortar]

time and ||hiveblood charm|| is enough

[uncut iris]

except at the end but it isn't that much

[golden flower]

no
dont bother

[untold schooner]

like theres so few checkpoints

[uncut iris]

those are just backer npcs, they give lore and worldbuilding
please do not try to ||dream nail them||

[viscid skiff]

he’s essentially a challenge for ||essence||

[uncut iris]

it isnt worth it

[viscid skiff]

yeah

[small mortar]

Literally harder than like ||pure vessel||

[uncut iris]

just kill ||dream bosses|| that's the intended way

[golden flower]

theres quite a few checkpoints
the first section is just long

[solid hawk]

I think people who have played other indie games like shovel knight would find it natural

[untold schooner]

yep im at the first section

[uncut iris]

the only metroidvania i've played before hk is cave story

[solid hawk]

You guys have to realize that Hollow Knight is not accessible as a game

[untold schooner]

its not hard theres just so new checkpoint

[topaz wadi]

right? maybe not everyone has that sort of background?

[solid hawk]

Cave story is soo good

[topaz wadi]

intuitive my ass

[uncut iris]

True!

[spring mesa]

So far you're the only one ive seen complaining about this, soooo

[golden flower]

i didnt find it for a while

[uncut iris]

me neither

[topaz wadi]

people just look it up probably

and dont come to complain

[uncut iris]

only found out about spike pogos is when i reached ||wastes||

[spring mesa]

Still quite early game

[untold schooner]

is there shortcuts

[solid hawk]

Yeah after the _room jumps . The pogo should be intuitive

[untold schooner]

theres a small shortcut in the first area i think

[uncut iris]

no major skips

[untold schooner]

yep small skips

[solid hawk]

Why are you called successful loser?

[topaz wadi]

yeah and how did you find out?

[solid hawk]

Lose the battle but win the war kinda shit?

[topaz wadi]

did you figure it out on your own or have to get some guidance

[solid hawk]

Mario

[uncut iris]

the inverse of ||failed champion||

[solid hawk]

Ah ok. I feel like shit with my lazy as display name now

[golden flower]

i mean

[untold schooner]

THE FIRST SECTION IS LONG ASFUCK

[spring mesa]

Do you want a small tip

[crimson mortar]

First section of what?

[golden flower]

||path of pain||

[crimson mortar]

Also deltarune pfp w

[crimson mortar]

Oh

[spring mesa]

The trauma of every hk player

[untold schooner]

||pop||

[untold schooner]

bro knows ball

THE FLYING GUYS KEEP SENDING ME TO THE SPIKES

[crimson mortar]

Well

What part are you struggling with

[small mortar]

Probably the last part

[untold schooner]

UHH ill take pic

yea t

the thing when you drop down

[crimson mortar]

Just pogo

[untold schooner]

well

i cant see anything to pogo?

[crimson mortar]

Saws

[untold schooner]

yep?

i cant see the saws until i drop down?

5/10 tries i get there

[crimson mortar]

Is it the very last part?

Of that section?

[untold schooner]

whats underthere

no underwear joke

[native tinsel]

||A platform||

[crimson mortar]

I think that's the last part actually

Of that section

[untold schooner]

B OI ALMOST MADE IT

BRO

[spring mesa]

I was about to say it 😔

[untold schooner]

i didnt know theres still spikes

[balmy vessel]

how many fucking hit does it take to sttager || the collecter|| this entire ||phantheon|| is pissing me off

[native tinsel]

Which one?

[untold schooner]

i lost like 5 hp in a row wtf

could\ve killed me

[golden flower]

stagger hit count of 14, combo hit count of 11

[native tinsel]

||Classic pop||

[balmy vessel]

|| p3|| but how many hits does it take to stagger || the collecter||

[golden flower]

@balmy vessel

[untold schooner]

i hml

my hands are numb

[balmy vessel]

yes?

[golden flower]

14 hits to stagger
11 hits to combo stagger

[untold schooner]

ill go grab a drink now

calm myself

[balmy vessel]

it does not feel like 14 😭

[solid hawk]

Yeah grab a nice cold beer. It helps with the harder sections

[untold schooner]

yea im not allowed to drink beer

like i could but

it tastes bitter (im a kid)

[frozen plaza]

I fucking hate this game

[untold schooner]

what r u doin

[frozen plaza]

Fuck ||colo||

[untold schooner]

what ||trial||?

[frozen plaza]

Sup buddy

[frozen plaza]

3

[untold schooner]

hi

gimme some badass joke i wanna calm down

[heady hollow]

How do you get? ||dobel jump||

[untold schooner]

||take a pic of your map, the whole one||

[heady hollow]

I don have full map

[untold schooner]

what?

[crimson mortar]

Give us what you do have

[untold schooner]

like this (ignore the weird black guy)

[heady hollow]

I got spoilers I know who he is sadly

[untold schooner]

hes just for decoration

[untold schooner]

its ok

just take a pic like that

[heady hollow]

I don’t know how to

[untold schooner]

click "I"

to open inventory

spoiler mark do you know how?

idk if i wrote that right

do you know how to spoiler images?

tell him how to

[heady hollow]

I tried to do it sent the picture, but it wouldn’t let me could spoiler, but said

[balmy vessel]

fuck || p3|| why are the starting bosses harder than the ending ones

[untold schooner]

do you know theres an eye icon near the image?

click the eye

try @heady hollow

theres an eye icon do you see?

[heady hollow]

There’s no

[untold schooner]

well

r u using mobile

phone

[tulip stump]

Choose image and press on it before send to edit

[heady hollow]

I have all of them until ||resting grounds||

[hoary depot]

All of what

[untold schooner]

tell me all the areas u see

[heady hollow]

Map

[hoary depot]

K

[untold schooner]

js dm me and send it

[uncut iris]

that really doesn't make it clear either since hk is non-linear

[hoary depot]

On mobile add the image then tap on it and it’ll give you some options

[untold schooner]

yep

js dm me duh

ill send it here later

[heady hollow]

||king pass dirt mouth crystal peak craossroads city of tears green path basin deep nest resting ground and more||

All I think

[untold schooner]

||go to basin and go far left||

[heady hollow]

Ok

[frozen plaza]

Did you ever try to eat a clock

[untold schooner]

why? no

[frozen plaza]

Ok

[untold schooner]

yes then

[heady hollow]

There’s a weird gate I don’t know what it does. I can’t open.

[untold schooner]

not needed yet, did you go down?

[heady hollow]

Ok

[heady hollow]

Ya

[untold schooner]

well

its for later

dont worry bout it rn

[heady hollow]

Ok

[balmy vessel]

i was raging and i broke my sandal😭

[untold schooner]

dang

finally got thru the first area

after like 2 hrs

[heady hollow]

There’s a weird thing that spits out yellow stuff

[untold schooner]

thats the guy you needa kill

[heady hollow]

Killed it

[untold schooner]

what???

does the guy have a name?

like boss name?

[heady hollow]

No

[untold schooner]

oh

keep going

ur close i think

r u in ||ancient basin||?

[heady hollow]

Ok||

Yes, one mask

[untold schooner]

nic, kill him

[heady hollow]

I got a key called ||simple key||

Hollow knight

[untold schooner]

nice

[heady hollow]

It normally leaves out when I see the name of the game

He did not this time why?

[untold schooner]

whos he?

what do you mean

[heady hollow]

The spoiler bot

[untold schooner]

its just the name

[heady hollow]

Ok

[runic crest]

yo can we send videos here?

[untold schooner]

dont know

prob yes

[heady hollow]

Wtf who is this?

[runic crest]

me?

[heady hollow]

Why Does he look like me?

[untold schooner]

what?

[runic crest]

oh

[heady hollow]

I don’t wanna step in the arena

[untold schooner]

oh

he look like you???

oh

[heady hollow]

Yes, but broken

[untold schooner]

did you set spawn in a bench nearby?

[heady hollow]

Yes

[untold schooner]

YEP KILL EM!!!

[heady hollow]

OK,

Why are they going to him?

Creatures

[untold schooner]

idk

maybe fight him

[uncut iris]

you'll learn why

[heady hollow]

Oh crap he stood up

[untold schooner]

dang get em

[heady hollow]

Oh my God I just got bombed in real life

[untold schooner]

dang fight hgim again

[heady hollow]

Not me though somebody else the close to me

[balmy vessel]

u live in the middle east?

[heady hollow]

Yes

[runic crest]

What r u okay?

[balmy vessel]

dude an oil tank got hit where i live still burning

[heady hollow]

Yeah, I heard the thing

[runic crest]

i hope you guys will be well

[balmy vessel]

thanks

[untold schooner]

i thought you just get smacked by the boss

[runic crest]

oh

[untold schooner]

thought you meant it

[balmy vessel]

lol

[runic crest]

im close to middle east too btw

[balmy vessel]

u dont know about the war?

[untold schooner]

i do

[balmy vessel]

damm hope ur fine

[untold schooner]

the iran and usa thing?

[runic crest]

prob

[balmy vessel]

yh

[runic crest]

thank

s

[untold schooner]

everyone's talking about it

[balmy vessel]

but irans been hitting a bunch of other countries

[runic crest]

but i dont think they can hit near where i live irl

[untold schooner]

its on breaking news everyday in Vietnam

[runic crest]

im in turkey

[balmy vessel]

prob wont hit u then

[runic crest]

ye

i dont think we are allowed to talk these kinds of things in this channel tho

[untold schooner]

its ok then

[balmy vessel]

oh yeah we should prob stop

[untold schooner]

lets talk bout sum ||broken vessel||

[runic crest]

lol

[heady hollow]

Died again it’s too hard

[untold schooner]

just

git gud

[runic crest]

not that hard tho i beat it at like 10 - 11 tries

[heady hollow]

Ok

[royal hull]

?tag gitgud

[languid radish]

Please Do Not Give Unhelpful Advice In general, try to be as encouraging and constructive while providing tips to new players struggling throughout the game. Snarky remarks like "git gud" or "skill issue" or "just kill it" provide players with zero constructive feedback on how to progress throughout the game. If you can't say something nice, don't say anything at all

[balmy vessel]

thats a tag?

[untold schooner]

well ppl always do that to me when i ask how to ||pop||

[royal hull]

Apparently so

[untold schooner]

ship help me with ||pop||

[golden flower]

there isnt much room for advice there

[royal hull]

What attacks do you struggle with speicifally

[balmy vessel]

how did u discover this

[golden flower]

?tags

[languid radish]

Tags (91)

yesping, whyspoilers, virus, verify, update, uncspoilers, ui, swap, steamdeck, steambetas, stealing, sssavesfaq, ssmodding, sshelp, spritepacker, spoilers, sources, skins, silksavesfaq, silksaves, silkinfo, silkimport, silkconsole, sho, servers, screenshot, saves, savefiles, savefaq, saveedit, rooms, roomlabels, reset, registry, redtext, quickcast, qc, platforms, piratehelp, pirate, pins2, pins, permpsa, palecourt, ontopic, noping, modlog, modlist, modlinks, macos, lumafly, lag, installs, install, info, imgspoilers, i, hp, how_to_tags, hkmpsync, hkmpskins, hkmpinfo, hkmpguide, hkmp, hkbepin, gitgud, gamepass, extramods, error, enemysync, enemyrando, crash, countdown, countback, controller, cogfly, ckss, ckc, ckbug, ck, charms, charmids, bw, bugreport, browse, binds, bats, banned, anyrad, achievements, 1221

Use ?tag [name] to show a tag

[royal hull]

Saw it like
A few weeks back

[balmy vessel]

k

[royal hull]

So when someone does a crime, are you allowed to do a crime back?

[untold schooner]

thats the msot random example ive ever seen

[runic crest]

lmao

[balmy vessel]

is this || white palace or path of pain||

[royal hull]

The difference in our controls is kinda preventing Ship from helping

[untold schooner]

||pop||

[balmy vessel]

k

[untold schooner]

whut

[royal hull]

Basically
Just because someone does it to you doesn't mean you can do it to others

[untold schooner]

ok unc help me with ||pop||

[golden flower]

wait for the bottom one to come on its own, pogo it ~3 times as it goes, pogo the top one as it comes, then pogo the second bottom one

[runic crest]

||how can i improve||

oh wait

[royal hull]

Pc player with no idea on how mobile works

[balmy vessel]

to what extend should the controls be for it to be considered a war crime

[golden flower]

discord doesnt embed mkv

[untold schooner]

fuh

[runic crest]

oh ye

[untold schooner]

im using pc why

[runic crest]

should i do mp4

lemme convert

[stone burrow]

actually useful tag unlike uncspoilers

[royal hull]

Ngl the particles just looked like mobile controls

[royal hull]

That tag is very useful though

[royal hull]

Anyways just do what te said yeah

[untold schooner]

who knows whats that

[untold schooner]

uhhhhhh aight.

well

[runic crest]

im trying to convert it through clipclamp lol

[untold schooner]

1/10 attemps i get there

[stone burrow]

guys does ||gruz mother|| have a ||dream ||form

[whole owl]

nope

[balmy vessel]

i mean teachnicaly doesnt ever boss have

one

[runic crest]

alr i converted it

lemme send

i can make the video low quality to send tho

[stone burrow]

i hate ||infected crossroads||

[uncut iris]

no lmao

[stone burrow]

wanted an easy ||dream|| fight

[runic crest]

i can screenshare tho

im at hk2

[untold schooner]

whats hk2

[royal hull]

Vc

[runic crest]

the vc channel

[solid ermine]

Guys

[runic crest]

?

[royal hull]

||a dream refight no, she does technically have one in a different place||

[solid ermine]

Charms for ||Watcher kngihts||

[stone burrow]

cool

[runic crest]

spoiler?

[royal hull]

Fix that
Show charms and inventory

[stone burrow]

bro just spoiler mark it

[runic crest]

guys can someone who knows|| hornet sentinel ||come to vc if they have time i have no mic btw

or dont need

[solid ermine]

I'm running ||Quick slash|| ||grubsong|| ||shaman stone|| ||steady body|| and I'm getting cooked

[runic crest]

LMAO THAT WAS MY WORST ATTEMPT @untold schooner

[untold schooner]

@runic crest be patient

[runic crest]

ok thx

[solid ermine]

The one on ||greenpath|| or ||kingdoms edge||

[runic crest]

i aint doing that again after that performance lol

[stone burrow]

hey y'all new wallpaper

[untold schooner]

dayum

[solid ermine]

Dude is it the one in ||greenpath||

[balmy vessel]

edge

[solid ermine]

Ok

[runic crest]

if it has ||elderbug|| thats W frfr🔥

[stone burrow]

||elderbug and bretta||

[naive swan]

|| if I beat absrad in god home will I get an ending or do I have to do p5 to get the ending ||

[clever remnant]

Help

[naive swan]

What’s wrong

[clever remnant]

i am an absolute noob

[untold schooner]

UNC HELP ME WITH ||POP|| RAAAHH

[naive swan]

|| hornet ? ||

[clever remnant]

yes ||hornet 2||

[naive swan]

Put || hive blood ||

[runic crest]

IM THERE TOO I NEED HELP

[untold schooner]

I DO HAVE IT

[naive swan]

What charms u got

[clever remnant]

a lot

[naive swan]

Put it and u need a lot of patience cuz it’s called || path of pain || for a reason

[naive swan]

Send me a pic of all ur charms

[stone burrow]

folks is ||2 nail upgrades 7 masks and all spells and shade soul enough for enraged guardian||

[untold schooner]

i have so much hp i just suck

[naive swan]

Yup

[solid ermine]

||Kingdoms Edge Hornet|| is annoying so I basically just quit and tried to do the ||dreamers in city of tears||

[naive swan]

Look every time u die u need to wait 10 sec to get ur mask back also put || shaman stone ||

You’ll need it for the last thing

[untold schooner]

NO I DONT NEED HP

[untold schooner]

well i dont have any attacking charm

[naive swan]

?

[untold schooner]

im standing next to an inf soul guy

statue

[stone burrow]

nvrm its too hard

[naive swan]

I know but u sometimes need it nvm put || quick focus instead ||

[untold schooner]

didnt buy it

[naive swan]

So u can continue faster

[untold schooner]

and im in the middle section i think

[naive swan]

Jump if he does the attack

[naive swan]

Send me a pic of where u at

[stone burrow]

i'm trying

[naive swan]

What charms are you using rn

[untold schooner]

idk

[stone burrow]

for him ||mop shaman, spell twister||

[untold schooner]

im like halfway done

[naive swan]

Just send me a pic bro

[untold schooner]

ok

[naive swan]

I might know if ur really close or not

[untold schooner]

wait lemmi get to that area

[naive swan]

That’s a nice build I recommend not using || spells || unless when he screams

[untold schooner]

this is where i struggle

[naive swan]

Nice u did 1.5/4 in || path of pain ||

[stone burrow]

yh then i just ||spam shade soul also when he lasers me i go other side and spam shade soul||

[untold schooner]

WAS SO CLOSE

[naive swan]

Look u need to pogo on the || saw || so u can get to the other side u gotta memorize where the fast one moves

My best advice

[untold schooner]

BROOOO

[clever remnant]

||how do i hornet 2||

[naive swan]

Is to not stop

[untold schooner]

thx

[naive swan]

Try to do it

You’ll eventually do it

Gtg bye 👋

[untold schooner]

thx

[fiery lichen]

Hello hk help community
I need help with something if anyone can help
Well I've killed the ||mantis Lords|| quite recently like 2-3 days ago and ive been navigating|| deepnest|| ever since
But i got stuck inside it with no way out ||i don't have double jump|| and ive died twice without acquiring my ||shade|| so i lost ||5000 geo|| that i was saving on ||divine for the unbreakable charms and i hadn't gotten any yet|| so can anyone please help me in ||navigating deepnest like what charms i should aquire and tips and tricks abt the area and if anyone can help me in savings or farming geo||
With all thanks.

[untold schooner]

not needed, ill take a pic of your ||deepnest map||

[clever remnant]

how do i beat ||hornet 2??||

[untold schooner]

i got stuck like you weeks ago too, and i almost quitted the game

[patent fox]

Oops

[untold schooner]

be patient, wait for her to use the ||dive|| ability

[untold schooner]

dont do spoilers

[royal hull]

||did you encounter an npc named Sly?||

[untold schooner]

he havent got there yet

[fiery lichen]

On my way , I'm sorry for the long message

[clever remnant]

ok

[fiery lichen]

Ofc

[untold schooner]

its okay

[balmy vessel]

did u get the first bench in || deep nest||

[royal hull]

Have you bought the ||lantern?||

[fiery lichen]

I think yes

[fiery lichen]

Yes

[untold schooner]

thats not needed to go back to ||fungal||

not needed, i said

[fiery lichen]

Ok but i got the ||lantern|| nonetheless

[untold schooner]

take a pic of your ||deepnest map||

[clever remnant]

but those ||spike balls in phase 2||

[untold schooner]

attack them

[royal hull]

||for saving geo, there's a building in dirt mouth that will accept rancid eggs to summon your shade, if you beaten the false knight, go enter a new area tjah looks like. A city, a ton of rich enemies there, epically on the right side||

[untold schooner]

use ||vengeful spirit|| to smack em out

[clever remnant]

K

[royal hull]

||soul blast deals with them easily||

[patent fox]

Damnit

[fiery lichen]

I use mobile port btw , im sorry , i don't have a console or a pc

[untold schooner]

so you got the ||thing from failed tramway||?

[patent fox]

Seriously

Take 3

[fiery lichen]

Oh u mean||steal soul jinn|| and ||the city of tears || well i cant go to the ||jinn cuz im stuck at deepnest||

[fiery lichen]

Ye

[untold schooner]

go far left from the ||hotspring down there||, you will find something interesting that can help you escape

[patent fox]

What charms should I use for the 3rd ||trial|| of ||colosseum|| of ||fools?|| (I was changing em up)

[balmy vessel]

yh it will take u out

[fiery lichen]

Ok thank you

[untold schooner]

but did you get the item from ||failed tramway||?

[royal hull]

||it's actually Confessor Jiji||

[fiery lichen]

Well hb ||my charm build ?|| I lost the ||fragile masks to divine||

[fiery lichen]

Yes

[untold schooner]

perfect, now head the way i told you

[fiery lichen]

Yes but i keep forgetting his Normal name

[royal hull]

||it's fine, get a new charm in Mantis village that will be really helpful oncd you escape||

[fiery lichen]

These are my charms

[royal hull]

||mark of pride, spell twister, dream wielder, shaman||

[untold schooner]

whats the ||mushroom charm|| i dont even have it

[patent fox]

Hmm, ill try it

[royal hull]

||spore shroom, release a cloud of spores that deal deals to enemies while in it after focusing||

[fiery lichen]

Umm it makes a cloud around you when u heal

Which damages enemies

[untold schooner]

oh thats not that good

[fiery lichen]

Yh

[royal hull]

It deals rather pathetic damage too
Forgot to add ||1 notch cosr||

[signal ore]

can someone help me my hollowknight is not working because of my lomafly

[naive swan]

Hi 👋

I’m back

[untold schooner]

@royal hull help mewith ||pop|| plssss

[naive swan]

Did u do the part ?

[untold schooner]

nope

sorry lol

almsot got it

[naive swan]

Don’t be sorry || path of pain || is all about patience

[clever remnant]

how do i beat ||hornet 2||

[naive swan]

What charms are you using

[untold schooner]

spent like 3-4 hrs on this

[signal ore]

PLS help me im crying

[untold schooner]

time to put my pillow away

[naive swan]

This always happens on the first try

[naive swan]

What’s wrong ?

[clever remnant]

uhhh ||which SHOULD i use||

[naive swan]

What charms do u have send me a pic

[clever remnant]

i DID

already

[naive swan]

Send it again

If that’s ok with u

[signal ore]

my hollowknight is not working because my lumyfly

[untold schooner]

how?

[clever remnant]

i sent it again

[naive swan]

That’s why I don’t use mods

[signal ore]

ok

[naive swan]

Uhh where is it

[signal ore]

but i deleted it and it did not wor

k

[naive swan]

I don’t have a pc so I can’t help u unfortunately sorry bro

[golden flower]

?tag update either verify the game files or

[languid radish]

Hollow Knight Recently Updated

and until the Modding tools are also updated, you need to make sure you're on the previous patch!
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1207486627124093019/1469213697657405480/image.png

[clever remnant]

How do i spoiler pictures??

[golden flower]

?tag imgspoilers

[languid radish]

🔹 All spoiler rules also apply to images of in-game content. To tag an image, follow these instructions: https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/985794659894829117/1452442852545138910/HK_Discord_Spoilers.jpg?ex=6949d451&is=694882d1&hm=47a8c358d152398e5ae2d1065365b60d0ecc8f737cb5191a481557171d65ba6a&=&format=webp

🔹 Images that were sent untagged cannot be edited and must be deleted.

[naive swan]

|| put this and on the other side

[balmy vessel]

click the eye

[untold schooner]

i hate the noise of the sawblades

[naive swan]

Like this ||

[untold schooner]

give me headaches

[naive swan]

Me too

[untold schooner]

torturing me for the last 4 hours

time for some deltarune music!

peak

[naive swan]

U should mute the game

[naive swan]

Put || quick focus mop and shape of unn ||

[untold schooner]

HOLY SHIT

[naive swan]

Did u do it

[untold schooner]

IT JUST WENT TO THE BEST PART AND I PASSED IT

NO FUCKING WAY

[naive swan]

It’s cuz of peak music

[elfin basin]

any tips for fighting the sun?

🥲

i die to fast

[naive swan]

Bro atleast censor it

[clever remnant]

Don't look directly at it

[untold schooner]

tf is ||DA SUN||

[naive swan]

You’ll see eventually

[untold schooner]

ok

[tight orchid]

The big ||month|| woman

[untold schooner]

month

[tight orchid]

Wait

[runic crest]

should i buy sk after 112% hk

[naive swan]

BRO HE IS A BEGINNER

[agile wigeon]

absolutely

[naive swan]

DONT SPOIL

[untold schooner]

CRACK IT

[tight orchid]

GOD DAMMIT NOT AGAIN

[naive swan]

YES

[clever remnant]

NO SPOIL S

[naive swan]

I mean his name literally says 88%

[untold schooner]

whats this part

[clever remnant]

ahem

[naive swan]

This is a part I struggled a lot

[untold schooner]

me?

95% now

lemmi change

[naive swan]

3/4

[tight orchid]

Suffering

[untold schooner]

let me watch speedruns

[naive swan]

In || path of pain || rn

[naive swan]

K but they are so skilled

[untold schooner]

how tf did they just fucking pogo the super fast sawblade

[tight orchid]

Magic

[golden flower]

you won't learn anything from ||pop|| speedruns

[stable fable]

can anyone help with ||traitor lord|| its harder than every other boss i fought and ||white palace|| combined 🙏 🙏😭

[fringe mortar]

Bruh you already know

[untold schooner]

maybe not

[fringe mortar]

Sorrows. Prayers

[clever remnant]

how do i ||beat hornet 2?||

[tight orchid]

O

[fringe mortar]

Hate her

[tight orchid]

You spam the ||DDARK||

[untold schooner]

whats ||the sun|| anyways

[naive swan]

Already said || put quick focus mop and shape of unn ||

[stable fable]

i do that but i still die

[golden flower]

youll see

[fringe mortar]

||radiance||

[naive swan]

Something later in the game

[clever remnant]

||it isn't helping me with the spike balls||

[untold schooner]

oh so ITS THAT GUY

[naive swan]

Look if she throws these

[untold schooner]

i know ||radiance but not sun||

[fringe mortar]

The fucking sun yep

[untold schooner]

son

[naive swan]

Try to dodge and put those things down

U can pogo on them

[runic crest]

LETS GO NEW PERCENTAGE

[naive swan]

Sun* but yeah like didn’t u see the first animation when we are about to fight him

[fringe mortar]

Ive given up😔 i fucking started dying to ||hollow knight again|| so now I ragequit lmao

[clever remnant]

it isn't help

[stable fable]

it took me more time than ||completing white palace kingsoul fragment thing|| to get ||traitor lord|| into second phase i think my combat might be cooked

[tight orchid]

Erm actually it's a she 🤓

[untold schooner]

why tf do they say ||theres a guy named pure vessel on pop||?

[untold schooner]

k unc get out

[untold schooner]

son

[naive swan]

He isn’t there

[runic crest]

is 42% good

[stable fable]

||pure vessel|| is ||p5|| not ||pop||