hk-help

[wide marsh]

||ok wtf is happening i have all 9 masks and this lifeblood mask is glitched into my last mask slot and only blues up when i take a hit and the last mask is greyed out wtf is this???||

[tranquil oriole]

visual bugs like this are common when you finish healing and take damage around the same time

should fix when you ||bench||

[rough peak]

Can anyone gimme a charm recommendation for ||Sly||

[robust ridge]

||quick slash + strength + shaman stone + steady body + nailmaster's glory||

[rough peak]

You might be cooking

[rough peak]

What about this ?

[thick wing]

||Quick nail ||is essential for nail DPS

[forest nest]

||sharp shadow is not that necessary ||

[rough peak]

Yes but most of the time I will be able to hit him once

[rough peak]

Helps with the slash slash spin attack

[thick wing]

I run ||quick nail and steady body||, I get 2-3 hits at a time

[forest nest]

||Oh wait thats for sly||

Ig you can keep it

[rough peak]

I'm ahh at the game gng 😔

[thick wing]

As if I wasnt

[rough peak]

I barely got to ||Radiance||

[thick wing]

(spoiler)

[thick wing]

I died to her today

[rough peak]

That's what I was about to ask

[thick wing]

So uh

We aren't that different

[rough peak]

I beat her on my 47th try

I did all 47 tries in one day

[thick wing]

I had 640 attempts in a Kirby mini game and I haven't gotten it yet

That puts into perspective how very not adaptive I am

[rough peak]

Which Kirby game

[thick wing]

The newest

[rough peak]

nice

[thick wing]

But back to ||sly||

Be careful of the range

And wait out everything ig

[rough peak]

What Abt now?

Forgot to spoiler mb

[thick wing]

Dw

It can work yeah

You can play whatever, it's your game

That you paid for

[rough peak]

True true

[robust ridge]

in what way

[thick wing]

I js say what I used and what worked

[robust ridge]

also you can easily get ||2-3 hits per attack with steady body + quickslash||

[thick wing]

Word for word what I said

[rough peak]

Makes my ||dash|| longer and gives me just the right dash length to dash past his d,d,s, attack

[robust ridge]

spoiler ||dash||

[rough peak]

Ok

[robust ridge]

also just walk away and ||dash under the spin||?

[rough peak]

Mb

He does ||slash slash spin. First slashes forward 2 times and then leaps in the air and spins||

[robust ridge]

let me show you

im getting a video

[rough peak]

Ok ty

[thick wing]

How can ||such a small guy wield THAT, like brother I want it too||

[robust ridge]

he is the ||great nailsage|| after all

[thick wing]

||The ghost outnails him consistently sooooooo||

[rough peak]

He has the Demon Slayer from Berserk

(probably)

[thick wing]

Took me a second to decipher

[rough peak]

Relatable name btw

[thick wing]

Tyty

[rough peak]

WAIT IM COOKING I GOT TO HIS 2ND PHASE

While talking to y'all

[thick wing]

2nd is easier imo

[rough peak]

Got sliced in half...

Welp

Back to the bench

[robust ridge]

hold on im dying from lag

[rough peak]

Relatable

[thick wing]

Lmao

[rough peak]

Do y'all listen to music while playing?

[thick wing]

I have game music turned off so you guess

[rough peak]

Yes ?

[thick wing]

Nah

[rough peak]

I listen to music while playing

[thick wing]

Way too distracting

[rough peak]

And have sound volume to 5 when on ||P3|| from the ||Collector||

His laugh makes me want to jump off a bridge

[thick wing]

You know how many ||Ps|| there are?

[rough peak]

5

[thick wing]

Mkay so no spoiler

[rough peak]

||Master, Artist, Sage, knight, And the pantheon of hallownest||

[thick wing]

I usually listen to music on ||p5|| for repetitive bosses, but when I face harder ones I turn it off and assume the gamer pose

[rough peak]

Fr

But I just crank it up more 😭

[thick wing]

Lmao

[rough peak]

Helps me concentrate

In a weird way

Where did Dream Welder Fan go btw

He said he'll brb

[thick wing]

Gimme a ||boss to do radiant in HoG||

[thick wing]

He still needs to brb

[rough peak]

Do I make you miserable or no?

[thick wing]

Why not

[rough peak]

😏

[thick wing]

Other than that

[rough peak]

||NKG or Traitor Lord||

[thick wing]

Uh

How do I tell you

[rough peak]

I did ||Mantis Lords on radiant btw||

[robust ridge]

i got hit once so not the greatest demonstration but here

[rough peak]

Is it spolered?

My immage

[thick wing]

Yes

[rough peak]

Ok

[thick wing]

|| "I didn't do the boss on radiant so the whole clip is ruined" ahh||

[rough peak]

Bro defeated him casually while I get butchered in the first 5 seconds 😭

[robust ridge]

tbh it's more important when you're trying to demonstrate a strat lol

[robust ridge]

practice

that's it

[rough peak]

Ik

[robust ridge]

i was there once

[rough peak]

What build are you using

[thick wing]

We all were

[robust ridge]

the one i recommended earlier

[rough peak]

Lemme check what it was

[thick wing]

We*

[robust ridge]

although i used ||shade soul multihit strats|| over ||nailmaster's glory||

[robust ridge]

i thought i gave a slightly different one

i forgor

[rough peak]

What strat

[robust ridge]

look at how i did ||phase 2||

[rough peak]

Wait a sec

[thick wing]

Oh dream btw I got to ||markoth and got my ass to 1 HP on p5, should I change dream wielder for nail master's glory for p5 second-last round?||

[robust ridge]

yeah

it doesn't do much for the last segment

unless you REALLY can't do ||watchers||

[crimson void]

sigh

[robust ridge]

wait it's not even in that segment

nvm

[crimson void]

oh your fighting markoth to?

[robust ridge]

i forgot ||p5 order|| moves them

[crimson void]

hell yeah my brother!]

[rough peak]

Sup new knight

[crimson void]

sup

||trying to radhog with thorns||

no other charms

[rough peak]

I'm losing my mind over ||Sly||

[thick wing]

Spoiler this whole

Please

[crimson void]

huh?

[thick wing]

||this||

[crimson void]

how do i do that?

im sorry guys

[thick wing]

|| on start and end of phrase

[rough peak]

If ||Salubra|| doesn't shut up I'll throw my PS4 out my window

[lost vale]

yo @crimson void how tf do you already have 1.2k+ messages within a day??

[crimson void]

huh?

[robust ridge]

use || on both sides of your message

||like this||

[thick wing]

Hardcore

[crimson void]

what are thoes

like where are they

how do i HUH!?

[robust ridge]

under backspace

[lost vale]

shift \

[crimson void]

WHAT ARE THOES

[robust ridge]

oh you're trolling aren't you

bruh

[crimson void]

THERE NOPTHING UNDER BACKSPACE

ohhhh

|?

[robust ridge]

yeah

[crimson void]

i did it

sorry i really didnt mean to spoile anything

[rough peak]

Is ||S. Body|| really that good?

[crimson void]

and wdym 1.2k + within a day?

[lost vale]

messages, u joined this server today right?

[crimson void]

uh 3am today yeah

[thick wing]

Taking the bait harder than a carp

[crimson void]

whoh

how UGH i swear i can never get away from leoscool557

[rough peak]

It's 3:40 for me

Am

[crimson void]

nice

im 8 pm for me

[robust ridge]

yes

[rough peak]

I'll try it

[crimson void]

trying to ||randaint markoth with thorns a nail and soul||

like that?

also its prob beacuse i like this server a lot

and have been talking a lot to them

[lost vale]

jeez ive been here for a month and only barely have more than u

[crimson void]

yeah sorry i type a lot

[lost vale]

although im only active in hk-help lol

[crimson void]

im active everwhere

[rough peak]

Nice

[crimson void]

i just try to find other places to talk about hk

anyways ima get back to||radhog with only thorns a nail and soul||

[thick wing]

Do old nail

[lost vale]

gl

[crimson void]

||im on a god home run||

[lost vale]

mods ig

[crimson void]

thanks!

[thick wing]

Aw

[crimson void]

wait

i think ima try ||radhog with only thorns upgraded nail and soul first befor moding to make it harder||

oh!

OH NO

NO NO NO

[thick wing]

No soul

Only nail

[crimson void]

no soul?

bet

[lost vale]

nail only

[crimson void]

i ghocu

[thick wing]

Lesgo

[crimson void]

nail only

[rough peak]

Masochist

[crimson void]

||nail thorns of agony for radhog||

HAHAHAHA

YALL ARENT CATCHING ME

[lost vale]

oop spoil that too

[thick wing]

And I mean

[crimson void]

||IM DOING MARKOTH||

huh its just charms

[lost vale]

and that

[crimson void]

i get that

[thick wing]

And this

[lost vale]

Aside from the words "Nail", " Soul & Focus (healing)", "Map", "Boss", "Charms", "Mask", "Geo", "Bench", and "Shop", consider everything else a spoiler

check pins

[thick wing]

And by nail I mean only nail, no ||nail arts||

[crimson void]

oh alright

got it thanks

ima go beat the boss

[rough peak]

IS ||SLY|| ON THE ZOOMIES?!

[crimson void]

YOU EVIL PEOPLE

[rough peak]

his last phase

[crimson void]

I JUST REALIZED

[lost vale]

lmao yeah

[thick wing]

You wanted it

[crimson void]

HOW DO I HIT HIM IN 2ND PHASE

THATS RIGHT DONT

[thick wing]

Womp womp

[lost vale]

who?

[crimson void]

do i gotta spoil that?

[lost vale]

||markoth?||

[thick wing]

Nah

[crimson void]

||markoth||

[rough peak]

||Markoth||?

[crimson void]

yep

dream fella

[thick wing]

||markoth||

[lost vale]

oh... have fun with phase 2

[rough peak]

You're screwed my guy

[crimson void]

wait

oh no i cheated

i|| did atunned and normal with soul!||

crap

[scenic egret]

soiler!!!

[thick wing]

@rough peak you still have to drop me the boss

[rough peak]

What boss?

wdym boss

[crimson void]

oh crap sorry

[thick wing]

||next radiant||

[rough peak]

WAIT YOU DID IT ALREADY?

[thick wing]

Both yeah

[crimson void]

wait so i got a qustion do i got to say ||any radiance like this?||

[thick wing]

Pretty fun ngl

[crimson void]

its a mod so i dont think i do

yall know more then me tho

[rough peak]

||NKG TOO?!||

[thick wing]

Yeah

[lost vale]

yeah

[rough peak]

Masochist.

[thick wing]

Easier than it looks

[crimson void]

good to know

[rough peak]

Okay

[thick wing]

A lot easier than it looks

[crimson void]

so ima get back to the boss

[rough peak]

||Pure vessel or Oro & Mato||

[thick wing]

I'll do ||PV||, I got you

Another one?

[crimson void]

sigh

[rough peak]

Is ||Absolute Radiance|| in ||HoG||

[crimson void]

i still feel like i cheated

[lost vale]

yeah

[crimson void]

since i did ||normal and attuned with soul||

[rough peak]

Oh ok

[lost vale]

u have mods?

[thick wing]

I'm on switch sadly

[lost vale]

oh rip

[crimson void]

yk what

[lost vale]

im struggling on pale court radiants

[rough peak]

Wait. Has anyone beaten the ||Eternal Ordeal|| ?

[lost vale]

theres no end

[thick wing]

I have

[crimson void]

its a ||radhog challeng|| so who cares about||attuned and normal||

[lost vale]

just a title screen for 57 beaten

[rough peak]

Ik 😭

It's a pain in the ass

[thick wing]

You can cheese it with ||flukenest||

[rough peak]

Is swearing allowed?

[rough peak]

Oh yeah

[lost vale]

its not too bad, ||ddark is so nice||

[thick wing]

No, fuck you

[rough peak]

Fuck you too

[crimson void]

fuck you three!

[thick wing]

[crimson void]

i dont mean it im sorry

also when i post a video

how do i make it like a spoiler?

[rough peak]

I know dw

[lost vale]

uhhh im scared if some random newbie tries to ask for help and sees that...

[crimson void]

oh yeah

dude i only joined for mods

[rough peak]

Press on the vid and mark as spoiler

[crimson void]

stayed here for the people

[thick wing]

Fuck them four

[crimson void]

ty!

[rough peak]

Np

[thick wing]

Gngn tmrw I'll make you proud monster

Lmao

[rough peak]

Ok

I already am

[crimson void]

bro

[rough peak]

||NKG|| on ||Radiant|| is

[crimson void]

||he spawned a nail onto me||

WHAT DO I EVEN DO THERE

also

for the jokes

[thick wing]

Mediocre

[lost vale]

📣 Server Rules: 📣

• No hate speech, discrimination, harassment or aggressive attitudes towards other users (in the server or DM's).

...

[crimson void]

should i try ||any randance nail and thorns only||

[thick wing]

We're joking

[crimson void]

should i that would be funny as hell if i did

[thick wing]

No offense

[rough peak]

Wdym ||Any Radiance nail and thorns||

[lost vale]

not too bad

[rough peak]

Is that a mod of some sorts or am I srupid

[lost vale]

yeah

its a mod

[thick wing]

I've heard it's basic

Normal

[rough peak]

I can't help then

Ik NOTHING about nods

[crimson void]

hey guys

[rough peak]

Mods

[crimson void]

i have a qustion

[rough peak]

Ask

[thick wing]

Yessir

[lost vale]

dude beat ||anyrad 1.0 first||

[crimson void]

||is nail arts allowed for my challenge?||

[lost vale]

naw

[thick wing]

No

[crimson void]

thank you

i had to ask

[thick wing]

Have fun on|| oblobbles||

[rough peak]

Welp. Gotta get back to slamming my head in my desk after getting Discombobulated by ||Sly||

[crimson void]

so no||nail arts soul or charms other then thorns of agony?||

who the hell is that!?

[thick wing]

Spoiler

[rough peak]

I spoilered it

[crimson void]

thats not

hey did it

[thick wing]

Oh

It's 3 am don't blame me

[rough peak]

Dw

[crimson void]

||whoever removed the floor||

i hate you

[rough peak]

It's 4 for me gng

Am

[thick wing]

Next after ||Oro and mato and PV||?

[crimson void]

at this point

[lost vale]

||absrad if u havent already||

[crimson void]

ima spoil anything ralated to hollow knight

[rough peak]

O_O

[crimson void]

i would hate to spoil the peak for people

[thick wing]

I don't have her yet

[lost vale]

rip

[thick wing]

Another?

[rough peak]

||Brooding Mawlek|| ?

[thick wing]

Done already

[rough peak]

Damn.

[lost vale]

||oblobbles|| again

[robust ridge]

who have you done

[rough peak]

||SoB|| ?

[thick wing]

Bet

[robust ridge]

spoiler

[rough peak]

Nice

[robust ridge]

very fun one

[crimson void]

wait

[thick wing]

Spoiler

[crimson void]

you evil people

[rough peak]

I did

[robust ridge]

it is

[crimson void]

WHAT DO I DO AGINST ||SLY!?||

[thick wing]

Ong I'm tweaking

[rough peak]

SO NOW YOU SEE MY PAIN

[thick wing]

Gn chat updates tomorrow

[crimson void]

just focus on my boss for now

ill do that one later

[rough peak]

Gng I tripped and fell down the stairs

[robust ridge]

have you tried reducing his health points to zero while remaining at a nonzero number of masks yourself?

[rough peak]

There's blood on my white carpet 😭

[rough peak]

You mean beating him?

[robust ridge]

nuh uh

nothing specifies you can't die during the death animation

[crimson void]

GASP I DIDNT!?

holy hell that help so much

thank you

[robust ridge]

yro'ue welcome

[rough peak]

I tripped on the stairs and fell. Again. In the span of 3 minutes.

AND THERES BLOOD ON MY FAVORITE SHIRT TOO 😭

WHYYYY

Oh and I think my nose is broken

[robust ridge]

are you ok

do you need to call an ambulance

[rough peak]

Back to the game. I want to try ||SoB|| so bad

[robust ridge]

[rough peak]

Nah

It's probably just sprained

At least I hope I do

[robust ridge]

er

well

[rough peak]

It is mb

[robust ridge]

remember that beating ||radiant SoB|| cures all known illnesses and injuries!

[rough peak]

Nice

BUT I NEED TO GET TO ||P5|| FIRST 😭😭😭

[robust ridge]

rip

well some people say ||p4 is easier than p3||

but i disagree

||and the final boss is a bit more difficult...||

[rough peak]

||PV|| makes it miserable

K gng I gtg

Sya

Cya

[crimson void]

by dude

bye*

[craggy compass]

Where do I go to advertise streaming?

[stoic cedar]

#livestreams

[craggy compass]

Thanks!

[sick pebble]

How to farm alot of coins

But like

Pretty early

im at

Hm

||City of tears||

[stoic cedar]

hello, please spoiler your message as per channel rules

[sick pebble]

Oh whoops

[robust ridge]

I believe a pretty fast way is to farm the ||moss knights above the greenpath stag||

[sick pebble]

ah neat thanks

[topaz reef]

uh does anyone kow a goood way to beat steel soul

i keep getting stuck at ||crystal Peak||

[forest nest]

||if you're low on health or just feel like you're gonna die you can exist then reopen your file to go back to a bench some ppl find this too op and see it as cheating but I think if you're struggling you're allowed to do that||

[topaz reef]

yeah, ik bout that trick, but both ways ive died have been me just losing three health like instantly lol

[forest nest]

||then maybe even if its not what you do usually go for safer build with fragile heart for exemple or a lifeblood charm or even better the hiveblood charm ||

[topaz reef]

||even then ive been using fragile health and fragile strength||

i get there with like 8 health points then die in a reallu dumb combo

[forest nest]

Dang

Well ig you might just want to try again until you get the hang of it youll succeed eventually

[topaz reef]

thats fair lol

im trying to go for ||slys key and buy the ornate key for shade spirit forgot name lol||

is that the right play? typically could afford it before getting tag teamed by the ||crystal spike shooters||

[forest nest]

Where's || slys key again i forgot||

[topaz reef]

uhg somewhere in ||crystal peak idk||

[fluid mulch]

||room before guardian||

[topaz reef]

forget where exactly

[topaz reef]

oh dude thanks

that helps so much

[forest nest]

If I remember correctly that isn't too deep in ||crystal peaks|| so yeah go for that

[topaz reef]

||ima try to get upgraded spells than go for dream nail and then vessel for monarch||

then ima find some charms to boost the nail and pale ore

[forest nest]

Btw are you doing ||steel|| for the achievements or just for fun

[topaz reef]

uh both

tryna get || steel soul ||

and actually || true completion too, ima do no zote so hes not in pnatheons, only reason i cant beat p3 lol||

|| this is a bad decision lol||

[forest nest]

Yeah ||zote is a pain but for steel soul mode you should gather as much upgrades you can before progressing and getting infected crosswords etc||

Nah killing ||zote doesn't change anything||

[topaz reef]

|| thought it stopped gpz from spawning in godhome||

[forest nest]

No it does but doesn't change anything else

[topaz reef]

ok, ||so charms, and nail upgrades and healthbefore vessel||

[topaz reef]

thats the only reason lol

|| AHG I HATE GPZ SO FRICKIN MUCH AHG||

[forest nest]

Yeah and ofc you prob were doing this but just take your time when you're in hard zones

[topaz reef]

nope, i was not lol

[forest nest]

||gpz deserves to be hated for generations prob one of the most annoying boss in the game ||

[topaz reef]

i dont know || crystal peak|| at like all but im rushing as if there was a bomb strapped to my nonexistent kids

[topaz reef]

he feels so rng tbh

[forest nest]

At this point I wonder if he doesnt just spin a wheel for every single move he does

[topaz reef]

lol

theres like no time to heal tbh

[forest nest]

I feel like ||crystal peaks is mainly just platforming and kinda of a maze so yeah just take your time for this zone ||

[forest nest]

Yeah he just throws attacks left and right and you end up losing more health when trying to heal

[inland vector]

hello

i have a problem

i think my hk run is glitched

i have look around in the internet for a guide on how to get 112% completion of the game and my run fits all the requirements and yet i stay in 111%

for no reason whatsoever

i doesnt reach 112% from 111% even if i get an ending

and have done all of what is necessary

[hoary anvil]

?tag spoilers for reference

[languid radish]

🔹 Ensure Discord’s spoiler tagging is used around spoilers (People, Places, and Things should be spoiler tagged!! if you are confused, please see the pins for what is allowed ).
We do this to be considerate of multiple conversations taking place. Two vertical bars on either side of text will tag it as a spoiler - ||This is a spoiler.|| > ||This is a spoiler.|| Alternatively, adding /spoiler at the start of a message will tag it.

🔹 If you have sent an untagged message, you must either edit it to include spoiler tags or delete it.

[hoary anvil]

hmm ... so you did ||seer ascension (2400 essence reward), beat trial of the fool, all upgrades, have every statue in hall of gods (-> beat the bosses in main game), picked up the godtuner, and beat every pantheon through p4||?

[coarse nest]

Do you know how to find your save file?

Have you tried the analyser website?

[hoary anvil]

true that's probably the best way to do that

assuming they aren't on switch or something

[coarse nest]

@inland vector if you're on a device that allows for save file extraction try this website

[inland vector]

yes, all of that, but i havent finished the 5th pantheom (which doesnt give you any %)

[coarse nest]

Even if you don't have the save, you can look at that website to see if you're actually missing something or if it's actually just a bug

[hoary anvil]

?tag spoilers ((||P5||))

[languid radish]

🔹 Ensure Discord’s spoiler tagging is used around spoilers (People, Places, and Things should be spoiler tagged!! if you are confused, please see the pins for what is allowed ).
We do this to be considerate of multiple conversations taking place. Two vertical bars on either side of text will tag it as a spoiler - ||This is a spoiler.|| > ||This is a spoiler.|| Alternatively, adding /spoiler at the start of a message will tag it.

🔹 If you have sent an untagged message, you must either edit it to include spoiler tags or delete it.

[inland vector]

analyser website?

[inland vector]

im on pc, how can i do that?

[coarse nest]

Steam?

?tag saves

[languid radish]

Important paths

Notes: These assume you're using Steam, with default locations. For GoG, locate your hollow_knight.exe folder, and then follow from there. The Save Files location is the same for all versions (except for XBox Games) and additionally contains Global Settings as well as your ModLog.txt. Some mod installers such as Lumafly can open these folders for you.

• Lumafly Shortcuts: Open Mods Folder | Open Saves Folder

• **Windows except XBox Games ** 🪟

  • Save Files: %APPDATA%\..\LocalLow\Team Cherry\Hollow Knight\
  • Game Files: C:\Program Files (x86)\Steam\steamapps\common\Hollow Knight\
  • Mod Files: C:\Program Files (x86)\Steam\steamapps\common\Hollow Knight\hollow_knight_Data\Managed\Mods\
  • To find Saves folder:
    1. Press [WindowsKey] + [R]
    2. Copy & Paste the Save Files path
    3. Press [Enter]

• XBox Games/Gamepass 🎮: type ?tag gamepass into chat for more info.

• Mac OS 🍎

  • Save Files: ~/Library/Application Support/unity.Team Cherry.Hollow Knight/
  • Game Files: ~/Library/Application Support/Steam/steamapps/common/Hollow Knight/hollow_knight.app/
  • Mod Files: Right-click hollow_knight.app, select "show contents", then go to: contents ᐅ resources ᐅ data ᐅ managed ᐅ mods
  • To find Saves folder:
    1. In the Finder, click "Go" in the top menu and select "Go to folder"
    2. Copy and paste the Save Files path and press enter.

• **Linux ** 🐧

  • Save Files: ~/.config/unity3d/Team Cherry/Hollow Knight/
  • Game Files: ~/.local/share/Steam/steamapps/common/Hollow Knight/
  • Mod Files: ~/.local/share/Steam/steamapps/common/Hollow Knight/hollow_knight_Data/Managed/Mods/

[inland vector]

im sorry

[inland vector]

yes

[coarse nest]

Take the save files from here, put them in website, it'll tell you what of anything you're missing

[inland vector]

thats like so useful

let me try it

ill come back if it worked, thank you guys anyway

[hoary anvil]

-# the main thing that bothers me about that save analyser is that under secrets, it lists the ||cornifer's notes glows||, but ||fog canyon map's glow|| is missing

[inland vector]

I basically have to copy the "hollow knight" in "Game Files: C:\Program Files (x86)\Steam\steamapps\common\Hollow Knight\ " or the whole thing?

[hoary anvil]

no idea what you mean, i'd just click the "choose save file" button, go to the save directory (for me on windows that's C:\<my user profile>\AppData\LocalLow\Team Cherry\Hollow Knight), and then select like user1.dat (assuming it's in your first file slot)

[lime sinew]

||where can I find that big golden enemy?||

[hoary anvil]

||gourgeous husk||? ||inside one of the rooms in right city, through a hidden wall that you need to jump a little to enter a hole||

||https://hollowknight.wiki/w/Gorgeous_Husk|| has more details

[lime sinew]

Ty

[fringe wing]

Don’t know where to find it

The only YouTube tutorial is some Indian guy who gave mobile instructions and I’m on pc

[short kettle]

Press Windows + R. Search %appdata% percentage. It should open a Roaming folder which is inside a folder called AppData. Go to the AppData folder which will have three folders. Open the one called LocalLow, then Team Cherry and you should see your savefiles there.

[inland vector]

@coarse nest my run was glitched

or budged idk

i heard the seer's final word and even have the achievement on steam but somehow not that i came back the seer was there

[coarse nest]

Ouch
So you're stuck at 111?

[inland vector]

the paged marked that i hadnt heard it

[inland vector]

nonono

thanks

i have 112% now

[coarse nest]

Noice

Congrats

[inland vector]

for some reason, maybe it didnt save or something

i had the achievement of the seer's final words, and i remember getting the achievement, but it wasnt there on the game

but now i have it

thanks

[simple island]

Spoiler tags pwease

[spare dirge]

||do i come back later to help them||

[hollow bramble]

just choked another run

maybe its like i actually need to practice

[low rampart]

go to the left, you might need some upgrades

[fringe wing]

How
Many movement options do you have

[spare dirge]

Lol I saved her but damn it was hard I realized that u had to explore ||the village|| first

[inland vector]

.

how do i get the achievement || keen hunter? i've seen i have to go ancient basin but i cant find info of where i specifically have to go to get that achievement and then get the hunter's mark ||

[bold jasper]

did you record all creatures in the hunter’s journal

except dlc

[inland vector]

its in the picture yes

you only need like 148 or so

the rest is dlc or extras and i have 161

but there is especific place that must be the hunter's room that you have to visit to get the "keen hunter" achievement

i saw it on a video but i cant find much more info about it

[bold jasper]

you need to talk to the hunter again to get “true hunter” i don’t think there’s a location requirement for keen hunter

[inland vector]

keen hunter and true hunter are two different achievements

[bold jasper]

yeah ik i’m asking whether you saw the specific location thing for true hunter or keen hunter

cause you should just get keen hunter when you fill in the journal

[inland vector]

the specific location thing is for keen hunter

i think i already know where it is

[rain ridge]

its in ||greenpath|| though?

spoiler this

[inland vector]

i deleted it

[inland vector]

im confused now

[rain ridge]

you want the achievement right

im pretty sure what you found was the ||journal entry for void tendrils||

[rapid basin]

Don't you have to do
PoP for a entry

[inland vector]

yes

[rain ridge]

no you dont

[inland vector]

that gave me an entrance

[rain ridge]

entrance?

[inland vector]

and now im 162/163

[rain ridge]

oh yeah

which one are you missing

[inland vector]

in the journal

[inland vector]

i dont know

because

i have 162/163 in both sides

[rapid basin]

Did you get the wyrm entry?

[inland vector]

if it was on the lower part i would know i just have to kill a certain amount of an anemy

[rain ridge]

||https://hollowknight.fandom.com/wiki/Hunter's_Journal|| cross check this

[inland vector]

|| wyrm entry ||?

[inland vector]

ok

[rain ridge]

theres no entry for ||wyrm?||

[inland vector]

i dont have wyrm on my journal idk who that is

[rain ridge]

unless you mean ||Garpede or goam||

[inland vector]

well i know that what im missing is an unknown enemy that i have encountered but havent killed

[rain ridge]

did you find the ones for ||garpede and goam?||

oh yeah makes sense then

[inland vector]

yes

i have it

[rain ridge]

||charged lumafly||

[rapid basin]

||goam||

[inland vector]

you can kill that?

[inland vector]

i have it

[rain ridge]

nope ||you can inspect something to get its entry tho||

||in the teachers archives||

[rapid basin]

Ok

[inland vector]

oh yeah

well let me see

[livid shoal]

Guys how beat ||Radeianse||

[rain ridge]

what build are you running

[livid shoal]

||Strength, Shaman, Q Slash, Sbody, and NMG||

Uh

I mean

||Thorns, D Crest, and the fungus one||

[inland vector]

ok i alr know what im missing

[rain ridge]

😭

[rain ridge]

what is it

[rain ridge]

||you dont need qflash and sbody|| 😭

[livid shoal]

||Face dancing||

[inland vector]

its

[rain ridge]

okay fair

[rain ridge]

😭 zawg you said you had it

[inland vector]

i thought i had idk

who i have is goam

[rain ridge]

yeah easy to get mixed up

[inland vector]

how do i kill garpede tho

with the oniric shield?

[rain ridge]

no

also spoiler that

but for ||garpede you go to deepnest||

and theres a hidden area

[inland vector]

ok

?

[coarse nest]

Similar to ||goam, you'll find a dead garpede||

[inland vector]

is this || garpede location || ??

[inland vector]

yeah spoiler it

thanks let go see

[rain ridge]

you need to ||break a wall to the left||

[inland vector]

ty

i got the || keen hunter || achievement now

now ill go get the mark

[rain ridge]

awesome sauce

[coarse nest]

You can ||dream nail the hunter when he's giving it to you||

[thick wing]

Spoiler tag this

[inland vector]

how do i edit the image

[inland vector]

|| i already got the mark 💔 ||

[coarse nest]

Ah nvm, there's some dialogue you can read it on the wiki or something

Basically he is thinking this

||It is stronger even than me... does it know that? Will it return to hunt me...? I hope it tries. ||

[inland vector]

that's so cool

|| i wish i could fight him but at the same time i dont he's too goated ||

[coarse nest]

There's so much super easy to miss lore stuff like this

||I wish I'd dream nailed quirrel one last time after sitting with him lol||

[sudden laurel]

hello all

im thinking of buying the game tho i have some concerns id like to ask

[jade sedge]

You dont need to ask to ask, just ask

[coarse nest]

Platform?

[sudden laurel]

let me think

[sudden laurel]

pc

[coarse nest]

Windows?
I would recommend steam

[sudden laurel]

i just want to know how bad is the lack of direction in the game

[sudden laurel]

yeah thats where i will purchase it

[jade sedge]

Its based on exploration, you are intended to get lost all the time

[rain ridge]

not that bad, you are bound to get lost a bit in the first area but once you get the tools to explore it flows really well

[sudden laurel]

is it just aimless repetitive wandering or does it have meaningful exploration

i have never been exposed to the game before so i dont know what to expect

[rain ridge]

it has lots of meaningful exploration

imo

most of the areas serve a purpose and theres no "filler areas" as such

[coarse nest]

It's not really bad tbh

I have the navigational sense of a rock irl and I manage fine

God damn internet my messages no send

[jade sedge]

||Probably depends on the person how they feel it. There is is a system though which shows you where you have already been and where not||

[sudden laurel]

thats nice , how do the areas work? are they maze like and you are expected to find shortcuts for less navigation

[rain ridge]

the areas are all connected to each other really well, they could be maze in some certain situations but like i said once u get the navigational tools its really easy

and there are shortcuts but you find them after exploring the area to allow for faster travel afterwards

[jade sedge]

There is no shortcuts that reduce the amount of exploration because the point is exploration

[rain ridge]

yep so the game never pushes you to find them

until after youre done

[sudden laurel]

shortcuts to allow easy access to point a and b besides having to go through all that is in between a and b which is what i meant by repetitive wandering

[rain ridge]

yeah there are those for boss fights and some puzzle rooms

[jade sedge]

||There is also a bigger system which allows you to get easily between places you have already been||

[coarse nest]

There's not much repetitive wandering, rather the time you're gonna be revisiting an area you'll most likely have new things to do due to the nature of metroidvanias

[sudden laurel]

alright

i am aware the game is hard but how is the difficulty spikes within the game

[jade sedge]

||Its so non linear it varies a lot but there is no high difficulty spikes until the very very end, and some optional stuff||

[coarse nest]

There's a few major bosses that act like walls, but they aren't that bad, a few attempts, my longest wall was like a few hours(less than 10) spread across a week and you can get through them

There were bosses I struggled with in the beginning but over time the amount of time I was stuck on a boss went down

[sudden laurel]

those said bosses do they by any chance have long tracks?

[coarse nest]

And the super difficult shit is just there for players who like the challenge

I'm not doing any of the "hard bits" and I'm damn well close to 100%ing the game

[coarse nest]

Long tracks?

Also, my internet's bad so idk id my messages go through in a timely manner sorry about that ig

[shut sparrow]

some of the optional stuff is incredibly difficult

[sudden laurel]

you die, and you have to go through a shitty track to get back to the boss arena

[coarse nest]

Nah

||most bosses have save spots very near them, and the aforementioned shortcuts help||

It's like a few seconds of walking on most cases

[sudden laurel]

what

you cannot save via menu right

[south cobalt]

I need help with ||p4||

It's the last thing I need to ||112%|| the game

[jade sedge]

||Is there any specific bosses giving you most trouble? The main general tip is to practice in HoG||

[south cobalt]

Umm I haven't played in a while was focusing on that but uhh I'll come back later ig

[strong geode]

||is there any way to heal during dung defender||

[rain ridge]

it saves when you quit the game

and when you start the game up again, it loads you up to whichever last bench you rested at

[coarse nest]

So there are ||save spots, if you quit out from menu it'll save and send you back to that spot||

What music do the bosses have in ||hall of gods refight||

I wanna experience ||soul master again with the amazing ambiance of the fight||

[coarse nest]

||when he is bouncing around maybe?||
What are your charms/inv?

[strong geode]

||i have dashmaster mark of pride spell twister and soul catcher||

[rain ridge]

dude fr ||one of the first bosses i struggled at and everytime i died and had to go back to his area, i just fell in love with the soul sanctum soundtrack||

[strong geode]

||did it||

||you can heal on dung defender when hes swimming through the mud||

[thick wing]

Spoiler the name

[supple rivet]

wdym?

[thick wing]

|| at the start and end of your phrase

[supple rivet]

can you maybe join voicechat so i can show you my fighting style?

[thick wing]

The one thing you need to do right now is spoiler tag the name

<@&283547423706447872>

Tyty

[shut sparrow]

go left

[nova stream]

but isn't that where I came from?

[shut sparrow]

no

[nova stream]

okay!

[shut sparrow]

it's a very common confusion

you came from below

[nova stream]

alright!

thank you!!

[strong geode]

||is there any way to skip those extra hard mashers in crystal peak||

||the really fast ones||

||i've died 28 times to them (counted)||

[dusty junco]

yo i installed the enemy hp bar and hkmp mods on my game, but now my enemies dont do anything until i hit them

im using lumafly

[sudden laurel]

how often does the game go on sale ?

[shut sparrow]

well, you don't necessarily need to go through them but it's probably harder to avoid them than just learning how to dodge them. I recommend turning down your volume. It helps a lot

[midnight wraith]

I'm so done 😭
mfer really up and dusted with 4500 geo didn't she

wait do I have to spoiler the image..

woops

Umm anyways whats up with the ||fake bank|| stuff

[neat karma]

Very often

Usually 50% off

[shut sparrow]

in this channel everything from the game needs to be tagged with two bars on each side ||like this|| so please edit your message.
||You should be able to see the amount you already have/how many ur missing. If you don't have that you can collect it in the black egg temple. If you have it you can complete the once you've got. If you are still missing some I can send you a list of the most commonly missed ones||

[neat karma]

@midnight wraith dont.

[midnight wraith]

hmm what is it

[neat karma]

Not only is it agaisnt the rules to encourage that its agaisnt discords ToS

[sudden laurel]

and why would i wanna do that? id like to support the devs

[midnight wraith]

what bruh -_- the emoji existed

[neat karma]

You can look up isthereanydeal to look up if its on sale anywhere and be notified when it does so

[sudden laurel]

is there any expected sales besides the autumn one or is it on random

[neat karma]

But its not for that use

[midnight wraith]

🥹 sorry bruh please spare my autistic ass

[neat karma]

It does hop in on most major sale but it also does so randomly

[celest robin]

cheers

[shut sparrow]

ask in #modding-discussion or make a post in #1057825333841240104 after reading the pinned post

[dusty junco]

thankyou

[sudden laurel]

thats heavy ngl

guess i will wait a few before buying t

[midnight wraith]

yall how effective is ||cyclone slash||
like is a good skill to use in boss battles and stuff?

I don't see many people using it so jus asking

[dusty junco]

||it seems to only happen in the mantis village, so is it a bug or feature?||

[urban forge]

Possibly BC the|| mantises only attack if you attack them||

So they aren't considered enemies until you hit them

As long as you've done ||mantis lords|| anyway

[shut sparrow]

please use spoiler tags in this channel ||like this||

[shut sparrow]

||it can be incredibly good but it's situational. For some bosses it's better than for others. It mainly shines if you don't have a lot of charms or other gear. You of course also need to use it well||

[dusty junco]

oops sorry

[dusty junco]

OHHHH THANKYOU SOOO MUCCHHH

I THOUGHT THE MODS WERE FUCKING W MY GAME 😭

[livid shoal]

They bow to you

[dusty junco]

sadly they bow towards me and not away

[livid shoal]

What?

[dusty junco]

😈

[livid shoal]

Gooners everywhere I say

[midnight wraith]

returned to game after a while getting my ass whopped by that ||dream realm soul master|| wonder if ||cyclone slash|| is effective against ||soul master|| i quite stacked btw

[shut sparrow]

both for that boss and in ur situation in general I would not really recommend using it a lot rn except for specific bosses where it's a great option

[sweet oak]

||quick slash, unbreakable/fragile heart, unbreakable/fragile strength and any one notch charm ||is what i use

full agression build

[coarse nest]

Spoiler this

[robust ridge]

Use ||steady body|| for the last one

It's great for this fight

actually what charms do you have?

[urban forge]

Is this in ||Dartmouth||?

As in do you need ||Grimm child|| equipped

[unkempt ridge]

HOLY SHAT OWL HOUSE PFP?! 🗣️ 🔥

[livid shoal]

What's an Owl House

[unkempt ridge]

... the characters from your profile picture?

they are from the show

the owl house

[livid shoal]

No idea who that is

I haven't watched it

[unkempt ridge]

your pfp is litarly luz necoda from the owl house

[livid shoal]

Noceda*

Bum

[unkempt ridge]

mb

wait you know it then?

[livid shoal]

If you're gonna fanboy get it right

[livid shoal]

No

[unkempt ridge]

😔

[livid shoal]

I think my favorite episode is when ||uzL and mtyiA kissed||
The Owl House spoilers

[unkempt ridge]

so you HAVE seen it?!

(agreed btw)

[livid shoal]

No wdym

[unkempt ridge]

then how do you know?

oh yeah the pfp

[urban forge]

So is the nine ||notches not including Grimm child||

[livid shoal]

I've watched it like 17 times

[urban forge]

So essentially 7 ||notches||

[unkempt ridge]

⁉️

peak

[unkempt ridge]

idk gng

[urban forge]

In that case probably ||quickslash, strength and steady body||

[unkempt ridge]

i never use || steady body|| like ever

only once

for ||marmu||

[urban forge]

It's probably the best ||1 notch charm||

[unkempt ridge]

||wayward compass|| is better

[urban forge]

Ig you could use ||grubsong|| instead if you don't like it

[unkempt ridge]

or ||grub song|| actualy i dont remember if thats 1 notch

[urban forge]

Oh yeah good point I forgot

Then again, it makes combat too easy

[unkempt ridge]

yeah they are fuckass

uhh if i remember right i used ||vengfull alot. and if the platform your standing on is in the air d dark when he dashes through||

[strong geode]

||i still can't do it what's the way to skip them||

[coarse nest]

It's fine I was flying

[vivid fog]

?tag imgspoilers @nova stream

[languid radish]

🔹 All spoiler rules also apply to images of in-game content. To tag an image, follow these instructions: https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/349116318865424384/1048068304801120336/HK_Discord_Spoilers.jpg

🔹 Images that were sent untagged cannot be edited and must be deleted.

[midnight wraith]

Oh I'll keep that in mind I just really really suck at the game xd

[wicked night]

yo can I have some help using custom knight mod plz

[urban forge]

Modding help will probably be more helpful but I can try

What do you need?

[wicked night]

just a way to put skins into my game

also can I call you plz it'll be easier

[urban forge]

I'd prefer not to call if that's ok

Sorry

[wicked night]

no it's fine

[urban forge]

Do you have the skins downloaded?

[wicked night]

no after failing to use it a bunch I decided to give up

[urban forge]

Do you know where to download them?

[wicked night]

no plz help I'm hopeless

[urban forge]

Gimme a sec il find the link

[wicked night]

thx

[urban forge]

https://docs.google.com/document/u/0/d/1qKfOtOXpYormusD05I700P8d79E74R1bTb3MP4vum-E/mobilebasic?pli=1

[wicked night]

thx

[livid shoal]

This can be in DMs or modding help

[wicked night]

ok

sey

sry*

[urban forge]

Download the ones you want to use then move them into the folder skins in the custom knight folder

[wicked night]

thx

[robust ridge]

Oh just run ||fragile/unbreakable strength + quickslash + steady body|| then

[urban forge]

I'm happy to do DMs if you want

[rare robin]

hi do you guys have any tips for hornet 2

[wicked night]

upgrade ur nail use streangth and shaman

[rare robin]

i got the one 2nd nail upgrade

[gloomy gorge]

||so i went to the top of white palace and got the charm piece but im very confused on where i need to go next, i feel like ive been through every area and explored as much as i can :/ ||

[midnight wraith]

chat real question wtf am I even gonna do with this much wealth I brought every single piece of trash from the store 💀🙏
and I murdered the ||banker|| so yeah he wont be keeping my cash "safe" for me anytime soon

[rare robin]

i would just leave her my money she still keeps it safe

untill i need it i would kill her

[robust ridge]

can you send a screenshot of your items screen

[primal ibex]

Just keep it

[urban forge]

@wicked night did you manage to sort out custom knight?

[primal ibex]

You bought everything from every shop?

[midnight wraith]

Dude I'm afraid for my life now to go around adventuring unmapped areas 💀
imagine if I died

[rare robin]

just buy all the charms bro

[midnight wraith]

wait banker dude is a girl?!

[primal ibex]

Uhh ok

[midnight wraith]

already did 💀

[wicked night]

@urban forge just had to let my dog out doing it now

[urban forge]

Ok good luck

[rare robin]

ithink

[midnight wraith]

only the slots remain

[primal ibex]

Yes

[midnight wraith]

damn I just violated a women then 🙏

[primal ibex]

A scammer but yeah

[rare robin]

she ran off for me i dont know where she went

[midnight wraith]

should we tell cheese?

[robust ridge]

what about your map?

[primal ibex]

Nah

[topaz nacelle]

|| hey guys, i was wondering what the purpose of confessor jiji is, can yall lmk ||

[robust ridge]

btw you're missing something pretty helpful in ||the abyss||

[primal ibex]

To get your ||shade|| back

[topaz nacelle]

Ahh, i see

[urban forge]

Where have you seen the ||kings brand symbol|| before?

[midnight wraith]

yeah you do feel like sherlock homes when you ||find her again lol||

heh I lost friggin 4500 (I'm a rich guy)

[gloomy gorge]

||i havent rlly explored too much of queens garden bc the paths are blocked for me.||

[urban forge]

||right side city||

[bright swan]

To ||retrieve your shade after you died, you can exchange your rancid egg to teleport your shade to Dirthmouth||

[robust ridge]

that's ||shade cloak|| isn't it

[midnight wraith]

ah well since you're asking for it ||pleasure house spa||

[urban forge]

Yes

[robust ridge]

In her inventory

She's already been there

[urban forge]

Yes

[midnight wraith]

wait lemme screenshot it for ya cheese

[robust ridge]

You should

Btw you need a || on both sides

Not just the start

[primal ibex]

||Shriek||

[midnight wraith]

Ah here it is human rights violation 💀

[bright swan]

||can you pass the black barrier?||

[robust ridge]

I think she just missed it

[midnight wraith]

wait no bug rights

[urban forge]

Oh nvm I can't tell the difference between ||mothwing and shade cloak||

[robust ridge]

||There's a lot of going around doors in queen's gardens||

Maybe you should go check it out again

[robust ridge]

Blue vs black

[gloomy gorge]

ok

[midnight wraith]

@rare robin she's right here cheese

[bright swan]

Did you ||visit your birth-place?||

[wicked night]

@urban forge didn't work

[primal ibex]

Do you have the ||charm from bottom right kingdoms edge||?

[urban forge]

Did you move them into the correct folder?

[midnight wraith]

Ohh good for you cheese I only now manged to spare a key for that place

[primal ibex]

Yes and spoiler

[wicked night]

I think so

[primal ibex]

Put || on both sides of the text

Two on each side

Pls spoiler game content

Edit it so that it’s spoiler tagged

Try face tanking maybe

||health charms||

||steady body|| might also help

[urban forge]

||use shaman stone if you have it||

Sold by ||sly||

[primal ibex]

Buy it from ||sly|| I think

[urban forge]

Or ||salubra I forget||

120 I think

[primal ibex]

If u want to tank damage, use ||quick slash, steady body and health charms||

[bright swan]

@robust ridge ||it seems like Luna doesn't have Shade Cloak||

[rare robin]

sould i use ||nailmasters glory or grubsong||

[primal ibex]

What happened to those messages

[rare robin]

idk

[primal ibex]

||grubsong||

[rare robin]

ok

[bright swan]

Do you ||charge more your sword and get less hit or are hit more often?||

[primal ibex]

||glory|| doesn’t go well with ||quickslash||

[rare robin]

idk i just hit

[rare robin]

ok

[bright swan]

True

[rare robin]

so ||shaman, quick slash, and grub song?||

[primal ibex]

Ye if u not tanking

[bright swan]

No, i meant do you get hit more often like do you loose too much health

[rare robin]

i have one more noch i think

[bright swan]

||steady body||

[rare robin]

at times

[primal ibex]

What other charms do u have

[primal ibex]

Oh yeah

[primal ibex]

Nvm

[rare robin]

i have ||spell twister, mark of pride, thorns, baluder shell, and the other ones i told u about||

also ||dreamsheild||

[primal ibex]

Forgot to spoiler

||steady body|| is fine

[rare robin]

ok ill get that

thanks i think thats it

should i spams dd?

[bright swan]

I would recommend ||abyss shriek||

But depends on the boss

[rare robin]

its hornet 2

||i need to beat her to get it right?||

[primal ibex]

For ||hornet|| yes

[rare robin]

how much times does she stager?

i think i get to her second fase but keep dying

[primal ibex]

Idk

[rare robin]

i gtg

bye

[primal ibex]

So if ur ||spell spamming|| try using ||twister|| instead of ||grubsong and steady body||

[robust ridge]

You can literally see it in her inventory

Otherwise it kind of doesn't yeah but that just proves that she has it

[shut brook]

Tips for ||absrad||?

[primal ibex]

Wish I had enough skill to be able to

[bright swan]

I know it sounds weird, but changing ||the charms usally works for me||

[robust ridge]

||don't chase her down during the platforms phase

during the climb phase, get in a rhythm of jumping when the beams starts forming and double jumping when they fire||

||don't ever let go of this rhythm and don't try to go to the next platform if it's not safe

it's perfectly fine to just fall back down and try again||

[shut brook]

Yea i do that but i have only beat her a few times

[bright swan]

I change my charms from || damage dealer to tanker heavy heal build||

[robust ridge]

i don't recommend that

[bright swan]

But it worked for me

[robust ridge]

yes but it sounds like in part you just started tanking instead of getting used to the fight

that won't always hold up

[shut brook]

||its more like 2 attacks overlap and then i cant dodge them both at the same time btw for the climb i double jump and dash bc my reaction time is bad so i can dash through it if there is a beam in the way||

[bright swan]

Ah classic

[shut brook]

Yea i aint doing that in ||p5||

[robust ridge]

||if there's a beam in the way just fall back down, don't try to force a climb||

||dashing breaks the rhythm||

also you probably realized this already but NEVER ||wall jump||

[shut brook]

||its a good rhythm to me 🤷‍♂️ ||

[robust ridge]

which parts are you struggling with b tw

[shut brook]

Yea ||wall jumping is too advanced i aint a p5 speedrunner||

[robust ridge]

it's also just bad because it puts you in a pretty fixed trajectory

[shut brook]

||platforms too many attacks overlap all the time||

[robust ridge]

are you staying near the middle?

also ||ddark|| is great for when attacks overlap

[shut brook]

||i camp the middle XD||

[shut brook]

I usually ||use d dark as a last resort||

[robust ridge]

use it more

[shut brook]

K

[robust ridge]

||if she teleports right next to you, try preemptively ddarking so you don't get hit when she starts the beam or sword burst attacks||

are you having any trouble with the ||last phase?||

[shut brook]

Oh yea ||since i always camp the middle i get too little soul to use it often||

[shut brook]

Only a bit

[shut brook]

Ok

[robust ridge]

you shouldn't have to though