hk-discussion

[ebon depot]

100% agree, and moving away from it this focus on parrying sucks too

[noble ruin]

Who tf is clover

[ebon depot]

Youre just memorising parry timings now, oh what a fun

[odd salmon]

idk, someone stupid?

[ebon depot]

Truly unique and innovating gameplay i can interact with in different ways

[empty lynx]

Get juggled mf

[digital grove]

binf is just flashy more than anything, its decently cool but if i wanted to fight bosses with a significant focus on parrying id just not play hk

[deep knot]

phase 2 absrad sucks

the one with the small platforms

y'know i'm suprised i did p5 that easily

[digital grove]

againnnn boundless infinity fans should hop 9sols

[ebon depot]

Yeah thats my mindset with it aswell, i just dont think parrying in hk is a well enough implemented mechanic to actually majorly shift focus onto

Its that cool thing that goes "clink" once in a while and you feel good and we should keep it at that

[leaden cypress]

hey guys, so... I'm about to beat the game and I go pretty blind lore-wise (I know the final boss/es) but I heard there are 4 endings with the vh and... should I just go there and take whatever it comes or is there any recommended ending to go for/important content that may be blockedin this file afterwards? thx

[digital grove]

you will be locked out of an ending if you get voidheart before doing it

[odd salmon]

you cant get the first ending with void heart

[hollow nova]

Nothing important gets blocked

You do lose out on an achievement though

[leaden cypress]

yeah, but well

[odd salmon]

the first ending is kinda important

[leaden cypress]

I guess vh endings are better

[leaden cypress]

oh lol

[hollow nova]

||Sealed Siblings is practically identical||

So not really

[dim lance]

if the first ending was so important they wouldn't have made it to where you could miss out on it

[leaden cypress]

you have to do a f- ass side quest to get blocked out the important ending

[dim lance]

therefore it's not important

[odd salmon]

hidden ending clearly

[deep knot]

doesn't the first ending have an achievement

[quartz cave]

i miss zal,

when he hopped on league

[hollow nova]

Yeah

[digital grove]

@quartz cave

[quartz cave]

@digital grove @hollow nova

[dim lance]

i can play like 1 or 2

[digital grove]

ew nvm youre spreading propaganda again

[jagged mauve]

meow

[quartz cave]

oh em jee hopping

[hollow nova]

Oswald

[leaden cypress]

lol

[quartz cave]

haii hru

[ebon depot]

Monarch got so mad someone mentioned league he got automodded, what a shame

[hollow nova]

I'm good wbu

[leaden cypress]

So I just go there and beat that big ass guy right?

[quartz cave]

im doing okee i just won not one but TWO league games in a row which makes me a super good player i think

[hollow nova]

gg

[quartz cave]

hop league u2

we need a five ppl lobby

[ebon depot]

https://tenor.com/view/aww-hell-nahh-aww-hell-aww-hell-nahh-gif-9659330954843262630

[quartz cave]

wtf hates me ☹️

wrap it up

[lusty cove]

Bro they fixed the failed champ cheese

[quartz cave]

i hate switching servers ts pmo

[hollow nova]

They will never fix the true cheese of just stunlocking it for the entire fight

[empty lynx]

Glorps persus zombies :D

[digital grove]

this dude just running p5ab for fun

[tropic nest]

if you get it first try im going to do something

[lusty cove]

They fixed that

[hollow nova]

tf did they do

[pearl sage]

Radiant Ummu is absolutely awful

[odd salmon]

they didnt

[leaden cypress]

imma just be realising first ending and vh endings are not mutually exclusive if you do them in order right?

[empty lynx]

Thank you for giving me exactly enough soul to get 3 masks

[pearl sage]

Took me like 30 tries at least to beat it

[odd salmon]

not really

[pearl sage]

Carefree Melody carried me

[deep knot]

alright i was able to beat phase 2

but died at the climb to phase 3

[lusty cove]

Then why can't I do it

[pearl sage]

I died on this part this morning

[deep knot]

this is good i'm getting good slightly more

[empty lynx]

Huh wha

[hollow nova]

am I going crazy or is the voidheart background lighting in the main menu dimmer

[odd salmon]

this might sound mean, but, skill issue

[knotty ravine]

we agree

[odd salmon]

cus i have done it multiple times today

[digital grove]

if you beat p5ab first try i will run something dumb luri

[lusty cove]

True

[digital grove]

idk what yet but it will be dumb

[lusty cove]

Then how do you do it

[odd salmon]

get soul, wait til smash phase, and spam it while he turns

youll get double hits

[empty lynx]

say less
(I have 3 lifeblood iam washed at PV absrad gon cook me hard)

[lunar spade]

shit looks like a mobile port

[digital grove]

i have news

[lunar spade]

ain't no way

[empty lynx]

Does she know

[lunar spade]

hollow knight on mobile sounds like genuine hell

[odd salmon]

not official obviously

[lunar spade]

that's what i thought lmao

[digital grove]

but pv ab is free free ab

[glossy lion]

The radience soooooo chill

[empty lynx]

i knowwwww but i can mess up easily and lose lifeblud

[knotty ravine]

like inf pv is cool

[digital grove]

my goat is washed…..

[lunar spade]

also unrelated but fighting pure vessel genuinely makes my hands shake

i can barely type words as i speak

[knotty ravine]

but it’s not THAAAT interesting

[empty lynx]

I also have this strange feeling iam gonna die to NKG

[ebon depot]

Which one is that

[lunar spade]

and i still haven't beaten that shithead

[deep knot]

fuck

[digital grove]

dont die to nkg good lord

[lunar spade]

i can fly thorugh everyone else

[knotty ravine]

I do really like phase 3 tho

[hoary tiger]

Is pure vessel hard by himself or not really

[glossy lion]

You dare pirate a 15 smackaroo game!

[digital grove]

it is definitely a difficult fight yeah

[glossy lion]

disgrace

to your kin

[ebon depot]

Oh im assuming you still mean boundless infinity

[odd salmon]

do you have a pc or something that can run the game?

[digital grove]

its fun when you get the hang of it though and can do hitless

[glossy lion]

puny pirater

[digital grove]

very fun

luri change your name back to the mobile player thing

i can shill fury on my own its ok you need to fight for your life out here

[knotty ravine]

yea I do like phase 3 a lot and how that impacts your movement and decisions

[ebon depot]

Im not going to make a full opinion on it because i havent played it but it looks cool visually, obviously has nothing to do with PV but its a spectacle

[knotty ravine]

but like. please don’t call this shit like top 5 modded bosses

4 of those 5 slots r rots rad mods and 5 is like pale champ

[deep knot]

I DID IT

[knotty ravine]

pale champ is fucking lost media these days

[odd salmon]

nice

[deep knot]

her phase 3 is actually easy. just pogo on her head

now its time to do p5.

actually no i'm gonna train a bit against her first

[knotty ravine]

Hkmain has FORGOTTEN about Pale Champ…

[empty lynx]

Fuck that girl

[frozen storm]

ggs

[ebon depot]

Actually so true lmao, i dont think i have seen anyone that isnt you mention that name in years

[frozen storm]

@empty lynx hello hello

[odd salmon]

no thanks

[empty lynx]

NOPE

[knotty ravine]

EXACTLY THATS WHAT I TOLD MY RAT

[empty lynx]

@frozen storm heloooooo :)

[odd salmon]

damn

wouldve bought you it

[knotty ravine]

name one guy that has mentioned pale champ since 1.4 that ISNT ME

[digital grove]

ive only seen pale champ IN your tier list

[knotty ravine]

gun to ur head one guy

[frozen storm]

How doing are you

[empty lynx]

about to get vaporized by ab absrad but otherwise gud hbu :)?

[ebon depot]

Ngl you, the mod author, cranky templar and like one chinese guy might very well be the only people that have ever played pale champion

[knotty ravine]

LOL

[strong skiff]

Levi

[knotty ravine]

honest to god maybe at this point

[empty lynx]

Y'all hear me out on the music iam picking for absrad
https://youtu.be/LOu0xI-xEBI?si=PVYnr7tiNBsdoNZ_

[frozen storm]

Thinking about wtf even was the ending to oneshot
I got extremely confused with the story

[knotty ravine]

I think levi has only typed that guys name because im in chat and i brought her up first

[frozen storm]

Use admission to perdition

[digital grove]

is traitor god eviscerated atp too or just a 1432 thing

[frozen storm]

Or one hell of a time

[knotty ravine]

And chrome. remember she did that shit and named her video worlds first for ?????

[ebon depot]

I didnt even know she had a clear

[digital grove]

also lowk buzzbo but i think that one went back on lumafly cause it got remastered

[knotty ravine]

or maybe it was 2nd or 3rd. can’t remember

[knotty ravine]

yea in like greek times

[empty lynx]

You in ur cuphead phase alr alr

[knotty ravine]

when I was actually grinding that guy

[frozen storm]

Yeee jazz is amazing

Still prefer silksong's ost

[empty lynx]

iam in my i hate you phase tho and iam glazing asgore till the end of ts

Also

[frozen storm]

Strings are so peak

[leaden cypress]

so erm guys

[frozen storm]

Try using embodiment of a true hero

Actually even better
Dreemurs united

[leaden cypress]

is it normal that I got the NO-void heart ending with the void heart?

[empty lynx]

hmmmmmm

[leaden cypress]

lol

[empty lynx]

I like my asgore cold hearted beast tho :(

[frozen storm]

Explain

[digital grove]

did you miss the dream nailing or something

[leaden cypress]

dream who

[ebon depot]

Even so that should trigger sealed siblings

[frozen storm]

Have you ever listened to dreemurs untited

[digital grove]

cause if you do it gives you a similar ending to the first ending

[leaden cypress]

oh makes sense

[frozen storm]

Untied*

[frozen storm]

United**

[empty lynx]

Nou

[frozen storm]

You got sealed siblings

[leaden cypress]

yep I tried to dream nail but my aim sucks so I just stabbed

[frozen storm]

Go do it rn trust me

[empty lynx]

alr

[leaden cypress]

sealed siblings ending is so good by the way

I guess I can try again and dream nail the guy

to the to the R

[frozen storm]

Your sibling

[empty lynx]

Okay that ost was really good for PV

king vermilion tho

[leaden cypress]

but is there actually any difference between sealed siblings and no void heart ending?

[empty lynx]

that 100% will go hard with absrad

[tropic nest]

hornet

[empty lynx]

Because iam panicking asf rn

[empty lynx]

No silksong for you

[leaden cypress]

looool

wait so she erm huh because of me getting that item?

lol team cherry is evil

[frozen storm]

Yeah it's so peak

[lunar spade]

he is definitely difficult

[crude trellis]

i agree

[lunar spade]

pulling out new moves out of his ass

[frozen storm]

Someone just blasted in front of my house while playing phonk

Ok ig

At least it's not funk?

[lunar spade]

i hope it was sleep phonk

[odd zealot]

hey yall

[frozen storm]

I just heard 2 notes

But I recognized it was phonk

[lunar spade]

lmao

[odd zealot]

any1 wanna play uhm hollow knight multiplayer or nah

[frozen storm]

The instruments are very recognizable

[lunar spade]

they wanted you to hear their new beat

🔥

[frozen storm]

People who like phonk genuinely have good taste

[lunar spade]

anyways i'm gonna try pv again either later tonight or tomorrow

[lunar spade]

i can't take the genre seriously, all the memes ruined it for me lmao

[frozen storm]

But funk on the other hand...

[empty lynx]

Top 10 worst pauses oat

[frozen storm]

Phonk, like actual phonk isn't very ruined from the memes

[frozen storm]

You have double jump, don't you?

[solar kindle]

Mhhhh waffle

[lunar spade]

i think that means i'm chronically online then

[frozen storm]

I don't like the fact that people think that funk is phonk

[frozen storm]

Can't rn

[lunar spade]

well yea those are two different genres

[frozen storm]

Completely different

[sick parcel]

How to access path of pain?

[solar kindle]

Do you like jjk?

[frozen storm]

Break wall in white palace

[frozen storm]

Nope

[sick parcel]

What's the reward for it

[frozen storm]

I don't watch anime

[solar kindle]

Perfect

[solar kindle]

2 second clip

[frozen storm]

A cutscene and a journal entry that's not required for the hunters mark

[sick parcel]

Do i atleast get completion percenatge?

[frozen storm]

The cutscene is very important to the story

[solar kindle]

Nope

[frozen storm]

Not at all

[sick parcel]

Sooo you're saying

[frozen storm]

It's for nothing, yeah

Did I do it? Also yeah

[lusty cove]

Ok I mastered the failed champion cheese

[sick parcel]

I have to get through a platforming challange harder than the white palace for basically nothing?

WHY DIDNT YOU START WITH THAT! IM GONNA GO DO IT RIGHT NOW!

Later chat

[frozen storm]

HELL YEAH THATS THE SPIRIT

[lusty cove]

Annnnnd markoth killed me

[frozen storm]

Learn Markoth

[empty lynx]

King vermilion for the win

[quick sable]

Wtf

[solar kindle]

Why do you english speakers use not at all even for things that are 100% in a certain way?Like for questions like :"is he fonna fail the year?" :"not at all".im not tring to insult your language i just wanna understan the use of not at all

[lusty cove]

Ok

[tropic nest]

mmmmmmmmmmmmmm

[frozen storm]

Idk I just use it

[solar kindle]

Guys you now need to respect him

[frozen storm]

I learned it from other English speakers

[empty lynx]

Sooooo riab absrad with dive when

[frozen storm]

Try embodiment of a true hero next

[quick sable]

I dont even use it

Guys guess what i finally got 112% on mobile

[frozen storm]

Nice

[empty lynx]

Nice vro

[quick sable]

How the fuck did u do p5

[frozen storm]

Isn't vro a female version of bro

[quick sable]

Especially markoth

[frozen storm]

I used a controller lmao

[empty lynx]

Nail arts which are an absolute bitchass on mobile

[frozen storm]

I did P4 on a screen though

[quick sable]

Theyre so hard to charge on mobile 😭

[empty lynx]

Okay i was thinking it'd be an hour and a half

[quick sable]

Wtf

[frozen storm]

Weird ahh finger positions
Even on controller I find it difficult

[empty lynx]

Ikr especially when jumping lowk just activates them

[thorny hill]

which pantheon?

[empty lynx]

istg i use like 3-4 fingers on my right hand

[quick sable]

Its pain in the ahh so i dont bother using them

Plus if ur mainly using arts then unbreakable str is useless im pretty sure

[empty lynx]

It's not about how much dps you can put in with markoth

[rare aurora]

it's almost like the game isn't officially on mobile 👻

[frozen storm]

Its the other way around

[empty lynx]

It's about playing markoth safely

[proud haven]

I use all of my fingers on my hands

[lusty cove]

Ok yeah I learned markoth really fast

[quick sable]

True

[empty lynx]

And dumping shade souls on him-

[frozen storm]

Will this be a lecture about piracy or something

[worn hamlet]

hk gaemplay be like:

[quick sable]

We are not being piraters its bc the game isnt fr on mobile

[rare aurora]

no. it's just weird to complain about things that are only a problem because you are using weird ways to play the game

[empty lynx]

Iam just broke

[frozen storm]

It's piracy, yeah

[quick sable]

How explain to me

[frozen storm]

Don't deny that

[rare aurora]

it is piracy regardles..?

[proud haven]

I mean u got it for free didn't u

[frozen storm]

But I don't shame on it

[quick sable]

If i there was an official tc port i couldve bought it

[empty lynx]

Technically you can buy a copy of the game on steam mobile

[frozen storm]

You're getting the game without paying

[proud haven]

Yeah but u didn't do that

[frozen storm]

You can buy a copy of it and then you get the "perms"

[proud haven]

There r a bunch of official ports they're just not for motorola g5

[quick sable]

Ok but how could i play it if i bought it

[frozen storm]

But who cares just do it

[empty lynx]

Eitherway no one really cares just enjoy the games

[quick sable]

Throughout steam

[empty lynx]

Well steamlinked but that requires another device i think

[frozen storm]

Ultra kill devs supporting piracy was so weird

[rare aurora]

and pirating games you own is still piracy

[empty lynx]

I know some deltarune port servers are like "i'll give you this port but you must buy the steam version first"

[frozen storm]

No, Nuh uh that's not piracy

[proud haven]

dude I'm gonna be real I don't care at base but when people start trying to say they're "not pirating" the game
While playing hk mobile, not paying for it, and emulating it
Like it's piracy and it's annoying for the weird defenses

[empty lynx]

okay now why would that be

[proud haven]

Like I do lowkey care and find it irritating

[rare aurora]

because that's the law..?

[empty lynx]

You still pay for the game

So like

[quick sable]

Oh u mean i could buy and the pirate it

[frozen storm]

You give the money to the devs

[proud haven]

I didn't say anything like that did u mean tor eply to the comments above me

[rare aurora]

does not matter

[quick sable]

You

[empty lynx]

Alp are you just hating for the sake of hating then

[frozen storm]

It's like buying something for 20 bucks then getting another thing that's also 20 bucks and not keeping the first thing

[rare aurora]

i am not hating

[tropic nest]

buying a game on steam (for example) is buying a license to download and launch that thing through steam

[thorny hill]

Actually, purchasing games does not make us own a copy of the game. We purchase a license to play the game, not the game itself

[quick sable]

Excalty

[proud haven]

U must've misread me I was calling you annoying for saying you weren't pirating the game when you got an illegal emulated copy of it that you didn't pay for

[rare aurora]

you just don't understand copyright law

[rare aurora]

depends on where you are buying from but yes

[frozen storm]

It's bullshit

[quick sable]

I wouldnt lie i did pirate the game but im saying it in a different way

[rare aurora]

yeah that's true

[frozen storm]

Bullshit too

[ebon depot]

True enough

[frozen storm]

The Nintendo switch 2 thing

[proud haven]

Have you bought Hollow Knight the video game from Team Cherry in any way that gives them revenue

[frozen storm]

Y'all can't tell me that's correct

[quick sable]

No

[empty lynx]

can't enjoy the game in any other way then
Dammit

[thorny hill]

Steam has you purchase licences. Not sure about epic, xbox, or gog

[frozen storm]

Xbox I'm not really sure

Probably yes

[sour dust]

prob

[frozen storm]

No one cares luri

[proud haven]

I wish hk mobile never existed so the people who pirated the game just blended in and never talked about it

[frozen storm]

I low-key need to buy HK on xbox

[proud haven]

hate these daily piracy discussions fr

[quick sable]

I mean tbh the port owners had a warning sign of saying support the devs by buying the original game

[proud haven]

Guys at my drug stand it says don't do drugs

[ebon depot]

You always buy a license when buying a digital games, theyre just more or less restricted

[quick sable]

And they dont own and right of the game

[frozen storm]

Cigar boxes

[thorny hill]

discussing piracy is against discords tos so there is also that

[rare aurora]

this isn't true lmao where do people get this idea

[ebon depot]

The ownership of the product always lies with the copyright owner

[rare aurora]

you are not allowed to share piracy links

[frozen storm]

You're allowed to pirate

But not share piracy

[empty lynx]

yea that's what i asked mods about the other day

[thorny hill]

Same with the switch 2. You purchase a license to use that

[empty lynx]

They were like "yea sure just remove that weave wing tag"

[frozen storm]

That's the biggest piece of bullshit

[quick sable]

Guys should i do pop on mobile ?

[solar kindle]

Guys

[frozen storm]

I hate Nintendo

[empty lynx]

It's fun

[frozen storm]

You buy the console you own the fucking console

[dull dove]

the whole licence thing is why buying physical game cartridges is better

[frozen storm]

Not a damn license

[quick sable]

Look at this bum his disc is about the HK and has grim pfp

[ebon depot]

Yup, own nothing and be happy and since cloud gaming doesnt work you gotta go that route

[thorny hill]

I remembered reading it on the piracy tag in the modding server. Might have been misremembering though

[frozen storm]

Nah

[empty lynx]

Yes bro

[frozen storm]

Digital games are still better

[dull dove]

nintendo and steam could remove all your games

[frozen storm]

Legally I don't think they can?

[ebon depot]

They can

[thorny hill]

There are lots of people here with grimm pfps here

[rare aurora]

they can

[frozen storm]

Maybe there's a loophole?

[dull dove]

yeah they absolutely can

[frozen storm]

Wow, just wow

[quick sable]

Hes a goated moth tbh

[rare aurora]

all of these licenses explicitly state that they can be revoked at any time for any reason

[dull dove]

it’s at their discretion

[solar kindle]

Ok

[thorny hill]

They can, as you dont own the game, you own a licence to play said game which is revokable at any time

[ebon depot]

You own a limited license that can be revoked at any time for any reason

[quick sable]

Yall realize that the only char ingame that has its own dream ess color is nkg

[frozen storm]

They don't gain anything from that though

[quick sable]

No only if u didnt like the game within 2 hours

[frozen storm]

There's not a reason to do it

[ebon depot]

Thats also why steam is allowed to ban accounts for example

[rare aurora]

it can, and does, get abused by companies like nintendo 🤷‍♀️

[empty lynx]

The lifeblood god or whatever the fuck

[quick sable]

Where ?

[lime grove]

the seven seas are callin' matie

[dull dove]

until maybe trump or china pressures nintendo into removing a game that’s maybe criticising them for example

[frozen storm]

I am in denial

[empty lynx]

Just where you get lifeblood core. There's a hidden giant beast there

[quick sable]

Oh that mf

[frozen storm]

The abyss creature?

[quick sable]

I rlly wanna see a whole game all about lifeblood

I love the liquid

[knotty ravine]

oh yea I wish games were physical

[frozen storm]

I don't want to believe this

[frozen storm]

Back in the day they were

[thorny hill]

Dont worry, zoteboat is going to take place on a lifeblood sea

[knotty ravine]

I would also kill to have a like void stranger cd

[quick sable]

Unfortunately its a lie by tc 😭

[rare aurora]

tho to be fair, this also heavily depends on the jurisdiction. think of mii mii suing youtube and forcing them to bring back his channel

[dull dove]

you can still buy games and not just the licence

[frozen storm]

I started hating physical games when my Xbox one Minecraft disc stopped working

[frozen storm]

Physical games

[lime grove]

i haven't knew about it existence until recently, which kinda shame cuz i have known this game for almost 5 years now

[knotty ravine]

I think physical media like that rules

[solar kindle]

I like my profile.its just something i really like and it makes me feel a part pf the community

[frozen storm]

I prefer handing money directly to the developers and pirating the game

[knotty ravine]

let me to go touhoufest so I can buy a physical copy of lns from aeon herself

[quick sable]

He changed it i swear

[dull dove]

lol

[frozen storm]

That's the best case scenario

[knotty ravine]

and we can do our handshake n everything and it’s heat

[quick sable]

U aint wrong

[frozen storm]

Companies can't screw you over

[solar kindle]

Yeah i wanted to see how another pfp looked but it didnt feel right

[frozen storm]

And you have all the benefits of digital

[ebon depot]

Yeah true, steam still needs to be able to prove a severe enough break of their guidlines to actually justify account termination

[dull dove]

yeah you are right

[quick sable]

Fair

[frozen storm]

And also the devs don't have to pay stuff for the game store

Comission or something idk

[solar kindle]

I have this from when i joined this server

[rare aurora]

as always though, if you are in america, you are cooked

[ebon depot]

true

[dull dove]

you can buy games on GOG then it’s yours

[quick sable]

Holy chirst i have this game now for 5months oml

[rare aurora]

https://youtu.be/OC7sNfNuTNU @ebon depot it's finally out wtf!!

[empty lynx]

I think i played it for like

[ebon depot]

Eeh depending on your definition of "yours"

[empty lynx]

6.5

[quick sable]

Wtf

[thorny hill]

The thumbnail looks like the batteries are wired into him and are going to shock him 😭

[quartz cave]

@empty lynx gn

[empty lynx]

@quartz cave os it's 1 am

[quartz cave]

no its suhood time

[ebon depot]

GoG doesnt specifically link your account to your ability to play the game via drm but the actual ownership still lies with the copyright owner, and legally speaking its still a license

[quartz cave]

r

[empty lynx]

Suhoor isn't up until 3 hours tho

[dull dove]

true but it’s a better ‘yours’ than steam for example

[quick sable]

Steam are js burglars atp

[quartz cave]

errrrr im bored so im gonna eat imo

[ebon depot]

True ofcourse, although its not like steams DRM is much of a real hurdle

[quick sable]

Pop pop pop

[empty lynx]

Ok ok have fun

[ebon depot]

2 hours holy shit

[pallid mist]

Gojikart

[pallid mist]

What.

[dull dove]

yes and no, most people don’t really care about the downsides, but it gives companies a lot of power, even without actually using that power

[lusty cove]

I'm getting through p4 faster than p3

[pallid mist]

Pantheon 3 is harder than pantheon 4

[lusty cove]

Because I was stuck at gp zote

[pallid mist]

If you saved zote

[lusty cove]

Yeah

[dull dove]

also im not a lawyer

[ebon depot]

Oh i meant in the sense of like, just circumventing the drm, i agree that it gives way too much power to steam

[pallid mist]

You sure about that

[dull dove]

pretty sure

[dull dove]

i think digital property is difficult anyway and maybe gog’s way is a good compromise

[pallid mist]

Oh ok

Anyways uh hardest boss GO

[wary hound]

hello

[ebon depot]

In hollow knight or generally

[ebon depot]

[pallid mist]

Hollow knight

[ebon depot]

Non challenge running absrad

[static talon]

I beat Steel Soul on my first attempt I feel pretty proud of myself, now I’m gonna try get 100% Steel Soul!

[wary hound]

this means like attuned right?

[empty lynx]

Gl twin don't forget to upgrade

[pallid mist]

You lucky,I might try doing my steel soul since I gotta do it anyway

[ebon depot]

I meant more specific challenges, like low gear stuff and all bindings and stuff like that

[pallid mist]

All achievements is rough

[wary hound]

im DOING a fun challenge right now

[ebon depot]

Cool what you doinh

[empty lynx]

The challenge in question is r04 gpz

[wary hound]

ro4 soul warrior

[empty lynx]

right :3?

[pallid mist]

Im missing steel, speedrun, saving zote pathway, killing nailsmith , and p5 achievements

[empty lynx]

Aw fuck

[ebon depot]

low gear soul warrior unironically is pretty cool

[pallid mist]

Wait, Ik it’s radiant 0 nail soul warrior but what is the four

[wary hound]

all bindings

[empty lynx]

Idk for me he went on for so long he genuienly stopped summoning minions

[ebon depot]

Its the chinese communities abbreviation for all bindings

[pallid mist]

Ah

[empty lynx]

he got that bored of me

Same as vfks

[wary hound]

it spawns 32 nad then stops

[empty lynx]

God damn

[knotty ravine]

how much is low gear

[quartz cave]

sorry,,

[dull dove]

does collector stop summoning stuff if there’s a lot of minions?

[knotty ravine]

it could be onws (op challenge) or itemless (honk shoo)

[pallid mist]

Maybe

[quartz cave]

yes

[pallid mist]

Collector makes no sense

In p5 why do the minions be oneshot?

[tropic nest]

you do more than 26 damage

[pallid mist]

I can’t one shot primal aspids with nail but it happens

[zealous skiff]

doesnt do another wave of jars if there are 4+ minions, so in practice 4-6 minions

[zealous skiff]

less hp

[empty lynx]

Only if there's 4

[pallid mist]

Ah

https://tenor.com/view/an-iq-too-high-raven-crow-tiktok-gif-3869671553367641450

[static talon]

Also thank god dying to dream bosses don’t count as a death cause they are crazy

[pallid mist]

Ye

I just don’t do em

[static talon]

(Talking about failed champion mostly lol)

[static talon]

That’s fair

[pallid mist]

I do dream warrior they give enough essence

[worn hamlet]

yea for me failed champ is the hardest imo

[tropic nest]

all dream warriors is ~1100, no?

[worn hamlet]

though actually in overworld soul tyrant is prolly the hardest, fc is hardest more so for pantheon and radiant

[static talon]

I think they do trees also

[pallid mist]

I also did lost kin + white defender

And trees ye

[wary hound]

RADIANT fc
is easier than radiant soul tyrant

[pallid mist]

Cause I like lost kin and shit defender

[worn hamlet]

hard disagree

but that's my bias lol

[pallid mist]

Soul tyrant was lowk really easy

[worn hamlet]

soul tyrant was way easier for me radiant than fc

[empty lynx]

1400-1700 depending if you save zote or no

[wary hound]

u only really
need to fight 1/3 of fc AND THEN spam soul for the rest

[pallid mist]

Zote isn’t a dream warrior

[empty lynx]

Oh right

[pallid mist]

That’s a dream boss

[empty lynx]

Yea it's 1100

[worn hamlet]

soul tyrant just feels more consistent than fc

[pallid mist]

I would be attempting lost kin radiant rn but my switch is at 1%

[worn hamlet]

and it's a slower boss as well

[pallid mist]

I’ve done bv radiant and lost kin ascende d

[worn hamlet]

which are the main factors of difficulty in radiant

[wary hound]

well we are all different people so

[worn hamlet]

yep

[wary hound]

i wont argue

[pallid mist]

Extra boss HP, map change, and hitless

[worn hamlet]

which is why radiant difficulty is subjective

it's so up there in terms of required consistency that little biases like that just change how difficult it is for anybody who does it

[lusty cove]

Are flukes really that good

[tropic nest]

depends

[lusty cove]

On what

[static talon]

Y’know I wonder why Path of Pain has no achievement, I mean the Steel Soul achievements and p5 achievement just as hard or harder arguably

[pallid mist]

They have a glitch that lets the Hitbox stay longer, they’re only good if you can use them right though. It’s not like shaman

[worn hamlet]

first of all overworld of godhome

and second of all what boss ur fighting

bc flukes just invalidate most enemies

[pallid mist]

They have journal entry I guess, I would like an achievement tho

[worn hamlet]

assuming u have dash

and it isn't a grimmkin thing

[pallid mist]

All though platforming is a very different skill than combat

[worn hamlet]

bc hk isn't a platforming-based game

[pallid mist]

That may be why path of pain is completely optional for 112%

[static talon]

Guess so

[worn hamlet]

hk is a very very combat-focused game, a bit to its detriment tbh

it just isn't a super well-rounded game overall in that respect

though you do have to take into account its budgeting was founded off of a kickstarter so there is that lol

the fact that it has as much variety as it does is wild when u consider that

[carmine lava]

path of pain is definitely way easier than both lol

[pallid mist]

Cough cough CHARMS

[carmine lava]

but i guess tc didn’t feel like making platforming achievements

[worn hamlet]

I meant the fact that the game lacks in parkour

not completely sure what u thought I was talking abt, but there must've been a misunderstanding bc charms make no impact on parkour unless the player instills that impact themselves using charms as a medium

[pallid mist]

DAMN IT HOW DOES THE HEADER THING WORK

[carmine lava]

header thing?

[worn hamlet]

big letters?

they aint allowed anymore I just tried making em and they got automodded

[hasty helm]

imagine if weathered mask was an achievement

[pallid mist]

Most charms are very combat oriented, leaving very little room for people who like platforming. Pretty much every platforming build is the exact same

To be fair almost every build is the exact same, charms are terribly balanced

[worn hamlet]

nah

that's just sbody and qslash warping the meta

if you don't use those two, charms get a lot more interesting

[pallid mist]

That’s my point, pretty much build contains shaman stone, quickslash, or strength

[thorny hill]

if you are trying to bold a word, put two asterisks on both sides of the word like this **word**

[worn hamlet]

strength is boring

[pallid mist]

There’s no variety and charms are either good or bad

[worn hamlet]

shaman stone is beeg fireball go brr so I like shaman stone

[worn hamlet]

completely untrue, because flukes exist

also dwielder

and dashmaster

also sprintmaster

there's a bunch that are neutral

[pallid mist]

Your playstyle doesn’t affect the charms, you use the stats of the charms do

[tropic nest]

shaman is just as boring as strength
unconditional damage boosts arent interesting

[worn hamlet]

neither good or bad

[worn hamlet]

this isn't proper english...

[hasty helm]

bigger shade soul allows for easier multi hits though

[worn hamlet]

I literally can't read that ;-;

[pallid mist]

Arrest me

[worn hamlet]

no

nothing here is proper english, by proper english I meant understandable english

and that was not understandable english ;-;

[primal ridge]

Omg we have the same cat ears.

[pallid mist]

It means the playstyle you have doesn’t affect the charms you use, the stats of the charms do. It shouldnt be that way. For example, the summoner charms are very interesting and could be fun but have no proper use because of the stats ( low damage )

[worn hamlet]

I disagree

the stats of the charms only affect the charms ppl use so much because of the way the community has developed

we have an extreme amount of research done on the numbers, so basically everybody is aware of the "meta" that doesn't really encapsulate all the ways in which charms can be used

just bc something is suboptimal doesn't make it unusable

[fallen kayak]

https://www.tfxktok.com/t/ZThq9XoJr/

[pallid mist]

So glowing womb (an interesting charm but bad stats and effects) is perfectly usable and not a harm to you at all?

[worn hamlet]

that's one charm, give me other examples

[pallid mist]

Dreamshield

[fossil helm]

With correct charms that can gain soul like king soul yes

[worn hamlet]

ok so two charms out of how many in the game?

[pallid mist]

Grimmchils literally can’t hit shit

[worn hamlet]

also yes this is entirely correct except to the "not a harm to you at all"

glowing womb is perfectly usable, and an interesting charm

[pallid mist]

Jojos blessing ends healing

[wary hound]

dream shield is actually mildy useful against some bosses it just costs to many charms

[pallid mist]

Deep focus can’t be used unless you have quick focus

[worn hamlet]

it's just not the most optimal one to use

[wary hound]

no
THATS SO WRONG

[fossil helm]

Y is that

[pallid mist]

No healing when the charm is equipped at all

[worn hamlet]

that's still only like 2 or 3 charms out of how many in the game

make me at least two lines then I'll consider ur point

[wary hound]

NO
it uses soul very slowly
and would take a minute to take all soul from all vessels and main soul

[worn hamlet]

the entire point of deep focus is to make ur heal be higher risk higher reward

[fossil helm]

Uh the thing about glowing womb was 4 lines

[worn hamlet]

and decreases soul use

[worn hamlet]

2 lines of charm names -_-

explanations can come later

[pallid mist]

How? You can’t heal at all unless the boss is staggere x

[fossil helm]

Wdym

[worn hamlet]

but citrus has only mentioned like 3 unusable charms out of the like 30 or 40 in the game

[wary hound]

most bosses u can only heal during staggers
anyways

[ebon depot]

True, but it doesnt work

[fossil helm]

There are 40

[worn hamlet]

more to my point

[pallid mist]

Carefree melody is entirely rng

[fossil helm]

People are sleeping on spore shroom

[worn hamlet]

that's gotta be one of the worst takes I've heard

[pallid mist]

Tf you mean no it’s rng lol

[wary hound]

after every hit it gets better rng

[worn hamlet]

it's rng, not entirely rng

[pallid mist]

It’s literally based on rng still

[fossil helm]

There is a pity system depending on how many times u get hit

[pallid mist]

That doesn’t make it less rng

[worn hamlet]

yeah but you said "entirely rng"

[ebon depot]

It literally is entirely based on random number generation

[worn hamlet]

"entirely rng" and "rng" are two completely different things citrus

[thorny hill]

But it is still an rng system behind the triggering

[wary hound]

mmm

[ebon depot]

If the numbers you need to get change is irrelevant

[worn hamlet]

and what's the issue with that

[pallid mist]

Weaverlings are only useful with grubsong

[worn hamlet]

why does it being rng based make it unusable

[pallid mist]

Otherwise it’s just a buddy

[ebon depot]

The issue is that the charm does nothing if you are unlucky

[pallid mist]

It makes it bad and not helpful is most cases

[fossil helm]

You coukd theoretically say that every boss in the game is RNG as each attack is random in practice

[worn hamlet]

ok so use it with gsong it's only one notch

[pallid mist]

Still unusable without a synergy

[worn hamlet]

if rng is inherently bad and not helpful in most cases to you, you need some work to do regarding ur understanding of games

[worn hamlet]

3 notches total

[ebon depot]

That is just an entirely unfounded argument you made up to somehow try to support your point lmao

[pallid mist]

Still a synergy and makes the charm itself require it

[wary hound]

i love how u picked every summoning charm
rather than anything else

[worn hamlet]

so far, I've seen nothing going against said argument

can you refute it?

[knotty ravine]

Oh yea cfm is uhhh not good!!!

[worn hamlet]

XDD

[pallid mist]

Cause they suck

[ebon depot]

You made no point, what can i refute

[worn hamlet]

I made a claim

[ebon depot]

Being what

[knotty ravine]

also I do agree grubweavers is the only use of weavers

[worn hamlet]

all claims can be refuted with the right amount of evidence

[wary hound]

yeh
but they are their for like funsies
they arent meant to be good
they are meant to be cute lil buddies

[pallid mist]

Gathering swarm is unusable in the main aspect of the COMBAT

[pallid mist]

Too bad

[fossil helm]

True

[worn hamlet]

I claimed that you view rng as inherently unhelpful and an unusable mechanic in the charm system of hollow knight

[thorny hill]

There is no issue with it, it balances out the charm effect. If the chance was a bit higher it would be better

[worn hamlet]

agreed, but that doesn't make it unusable

[ebon depot]

Yes, and no one else did

[wary hound]

well no shit
ITS ENTIRE POINT IS TO HELP U GET GEO
not fight bosses

[worn hamlet]

in my opinion, that would make it overpowered

[ebon depot]

Carefree is unusable because its rng yes, you try to extrapolate that to some made up general claim that makes no sense

[pallid mist]

Also I forgot heavy blow lol

[worn hamlet]

so what, it's still a point u have to take into account
Otherwise, you lose credibility in the discussion
this is how debating works lmao

[ebon depot]

Well not unusable, i dont like tje word unusable

[pallid mist]

Main aspect of the game

[worn hamlet]

and you lose even more credibility if u can't refute said claim

[ebon depot]

No I dont, what kind of play pretending are we doing here

[pallid mist]

Ye all the charms I mentioned are just really really bad and some hurt gameplay

[ebon depot]

You think this is debate club or smth?

[tropic nest]

thats not unusable
it does what it says it does very well, that thing just happens to not be dps maxing

[worn hamlet]

ok, prove to me why you don't have to take it into account then

[ebon depot]

I have, read what i said

[worn hamlet]

I think that we are currently engaging in a debate

[wary hound]

mmmm
yeh but u do be needing alot of geo from the things u kill to buy things to get things to help in combat or exploration ( lumafly lanter , nail upgrades , keys that lead to spell upg etc )

[primal ridge]

I feel like.

[pallid mist]

Godhome

[ebon depot]

More to the point, youre currently making up other shit to distract from the charm argument lmao

[worn hamlet]

but what im asking, is why rng inherently makes something unusable

that is something you have not addressed in any form

[pallid mist]

I’ve mentioned a ton of charms that are bad lol

[ebon depot]

That is incorrect

[wary hound]

its almost as if the charm was made before godhome was a thing

[ebon depot]

.

[pallid mist]

And was never fixed

[worn hamlet]

and why does it doing nothing if ur unlucky make it unusable

[fossil helm]

Let’s just see what non meta charms are actually good

[worn hamlet]

rng-based systems are based on risk/reward

[ebon depot]

I once again dont claim the word unusable as my own point i dont like the word

[worn hamlet]

if the risk of using the charm doesn't pay off, why should that make it unusable

[pallid mist]

Because some people are unlucky

[knotty ravine]

I mean yeaaaaaaa iggggg. but weavers on their own are pretty much irrelevant

[wary hound]

there is nothing wrong with the charm
it does what its intended to and ur throwing it into something it isnt meant to be used for

[pallid mist]

Because it has no use if you’re unlucky

[ebon depot]

Id just call it shit

Which id find to be the far more interesting discussion point

[worn hamlet]

ok let's go over the upsides of grubweavers

it's definitely not optimal, but is it to any extent worth 3 notches

[knotty ravine]

nothing in this game is unusable because it all triggers

[worn hamlet]

thank you

[pallid mist]

It’s unusable in COMBAT, THE WHOLE POINT OF THE GAME AND THE CENTER OF DISCUSSION

[knotty ravine]

like ig if you want to be a bitch about definitions

[worn hamlet]

ok, and what are the differences in ur view of smth being "shit" versus "unusable"

[ebon depot]

All that just for tue Linguistic win eh

[wary hound]

the whole point of the game isnt combat 😭 thats the whole point of godhome

[knotty ravine]

yea

[meager sparrow]

does gpz appear in p5 if you havent fought him in dirtmouth or let zote die

[worn hamlet]

but that's just not true

[tropic nest]

no
do it anyways thats not fun

[meager sparrow]

interesting

[digital grove]

sam o nella wrote a book wtfff

[worn hamlet]

im being a bitch abt definitions bc nobody involved in this convo seems to have their definitions in order

[digital grove]

crazy

[ebon depot]

Is that genuinely not obvious? Something being unusable is something that does not function, something thats shit is just not good in some form or anothet comparitively

[meager sparrow]

dw i love gpz lol

[digital grove]

dudes on like 849579834235 different side quests

[worn hamlet]

except for u sonia, ur the only one who seems to know what they're talking abt

[lusty cove]

How would one beat absolute radiance on radiant

[pallid mist]

Ok ignore all the combat items and what you said yourself

[pallid mist]

By dodging

[knotty ravine]

remote soul gathering is niche helpful. I used it with nightmare nosk and great champ when I did that shit in vc for like 40 minutes

[worn hamlet]

so wait

I might've made a huge misunderstanding

[fossil helm]

We all like to play the game for fun not evaluate charms if there is a community for that join it

[worn hamlet]

I thought we were talking abt unusability in this debate
Were we actually talking about compartive usability?

[pallid mist]

https://tenor.com/view/ishowspeed-sigh-speed-stream-speed-laugh-exhausted-gif-13232198262957040921

[knotty ravine]

remote soul, if it gave you more soul, could be worth 3 notches

[ebon depot]

Yes

[rare aurora]

for example: english is shit, german german is unusable

[pallid mist]

[worn hamlet]

yeah u say that but there's also a major portion of this community who loves evaluating charms

[fossil helm]

So join that portion of the community

[tropic nest]

already there
example: sshadow

[ebon depot]

Unusable is just used as a "its so bad its basically unusable", not as the actual literal definition of the charm doesnt function

[worn hamlet]

when I said community, I was talking about the people who engage in this channel XD

[fossil helm]

Oh I made a misunderstanding then XD

[worn hamlet]

yeap

[worn hamlet]

thanks for clearing that up

anyways my dad needs help with some wires ill brb

[ebon depot]

[fossil helm]

Ngl spore shroom is kinda decent

It’s a good defensive option

[ebon depot]

The damage is just so low

I really like the idea

[fossil helm]

It’s a DoT

[ebon depot]

Its just so little damage that it ends up doing nothing

[tropic nest]

...that is low

[ebon depot]

I dont know that abbreviation

[tropic nest]

damage over time

[ebon depot]

Ah

[wary hound]

u guys wanna see my poorly made charm tierlist?

[pallid mist]

Im talking about how some charms have no use in combat (wayward compass, swarm), hurt you (heavy blow, womb), or have little use at all (Grimmchild, weaverlings). I can give compass and swarm a pass cause theyre early game, but the other charms being so bad makes it so the playstyles that revolve around the charms not applicable to hk. If you like summoner builds in games, then tough luck you just can play like that in hk

[wary hound]

heavy blow doesnt hinder you

[pallid mist]

Less dps

[wary hound]

not neccesarily

[pallid mist]

You want less knock back so that you can spend more time hitting them instead of walking

The stagger doesn’t help dont mention it

[fossil helm]

I like it and its a cheap charm

[wary hound]

i mean
heavy blow knock back isnt usually useful
but the 1 less stagger hit
is slightly useful
but not that useful
but it doesnt HURT you
cause if u get them to go futher away they are not as close so they cant just randomly walk into you

[tropic nest]

unfortunately sbody is the same cost

[ebon depot]

Tbf the one notch barely matters anyway

[pallid mist]

It does hurt you, knockbaxk means less hits meaning less damage. The stagger count was probably added in compensation for the less hits you’ll get

[knotty ravine]

oh ykw yato hold on

[wary hound]

on bosses like obbobbles that knock back is usefull

[pallid mist]

Which doesn’t help at all

[pallid mist]

Woohoo you found a niche use for the charm

[vernal knot]

Everything is niche

[wary hound]

still it doesnt hinder you
as much as u say

[knotty ravine]

yo yato peep

[vernal knot]

Some are just a larger niche

[knotty ravine]

this bum replied to me 2 months late btw

that’s ok that’s still oomf

still one of the like 3 guys I care abt opinion wise

[vernal knot]

Sonia are you happy with how it ended out

[knotty ravine]

what

the list or

[vernal knot]

Yes the list

[pallid mist]

Wdym?? More damage means they die faster, which means less time to get hit. more knock back means less damage!

[knotty ravine]

ya

the nmg change is fire that shit is top 1 but that’s prob fun as fuck

[pallid mist]

Which makes it less niche

[wary hound]

it also means they are not as close to you so you would have more time to react

[pallid mist]

Ok? Still less damage

[knotty ravine]

yea hblow isn’t AS detrimental

[wary hound]

YEH
ur gonna TAKE LESS DAMAGE to deal less damage

[pallid mist]

It still actively hurts you

[knotty ravine]

it’s for the most part just a wasting 2 notches for fun situation

[wary hound]

also more healing opportunites ( not by much but yeh )

[ebon depot]

I do like a lot of these ideas, some of them kinda feel like they would kinda break the game( hblow lol ), nmg is fire tho

[knotty ravine]

ok how would you make hblow good

I think you have to like completely change that shit

[pallid mist]

??what?? Pretty much all attacks are avoidable up close, a charm like longnail would create more distance if you really need thx much more time to react with

[knotty ravine]

besides. knockback on every guy is funny as shit no

absrad face dancing is too fire

[ebon depot]

No yeah i agree, i just think it would clash with how the game is actually designed in the moment

[pallid mist]

Makes nail swings slower but feel more damage

[wary hound]

long nail length buff is actually so smol

[worn hamlet]

well swarm is genuinely a good charm first of all

and second, there are some very good summoner builds in hk that are actually pretty decent even in terms of dps

[ebon depot]

Also flukenest fix my beloved

[pallid mist]

OML not this dude again, it’s not useful in combat at all

[knotty ravine]

strength is one notch more

[pallid mist]

Ok, still a buff

[worn hamlet]

oh yeah in combat your right

[knotty ravine]

and also doesn’t fuck qs

[worn hamlet]

but hk isn't a purely combat-based game

[ebon depot]

Finally no more flukestrats fuck em, all my homies hate flukestrats

[worn hamlet]

it is also extremely heavy into the exploration aspect of things

[pallid mist]

Yup you can count!

[worn hamlet]

don't even start with that -_-

[wary hound]

heavy blow is too

just less

[worn hamlet]

there is no reason to sarcastically belittle someone you are in conversation with ever

[pallid mist]

How? It buffs your ability to do less damage

[pallid mist]

Ok

[ebon depot]

Also just weird, im p sure sonia was talking about her own theoretical changes

[knotty ravine]

https://tenor.com/view/blue-bluth-blueth-super-bluth-nova-super-truth-nova-gif-5280196180553689972

[wary hound]

THE Stagger
is semi useful
and knock BACK STILL means they are not as close to you
also without quick slash YOU DONT LOSE DPS

[worn hamlet]

ok so?

[ebon depot]

I was agreeing with you

[knotty ravine]

yes

that hblow dmg buff better be like twice as potent as fury otherwise who cares methinks

[pallid mist]

1 hit isn’t changing shit

[worn hamlet]

o whoops

[pallid mist]

It’s an early game charm so im not tryna make it that unique

[wary hound]

it still exists tho DOESNT IT
u cant just make it irrelevant cause the buff is small
its still there

[ebon depot]

Heavy blow is like literally alright somewhat what are we even srguing about

[knotty ravine]

hold on benji gave me an idea I need to find it

[worn hamlet]

bit confused as to how tho ngl

[worn hamlet]

ok u cannot say glowing womb is bad and then turn around and say heavy blow is decent

[pallid mist]

I still don’t get how it matters, you get less damage without it

It actively hurts you

[ebon depot]

I meant it as in like, what he said wasnt just rude but also just weird because sonia was talking about something completely separate

[pallid mist]

It’s only okay if the boss takes no knockback

[worn hamlet]

oh yeah, I agree with that

[primal ridge]

I want to kiss the Collector so badly.

[knotty ravine]

he said expanding or buffing hblow’s stagger effect by a percentage instead of -1

[worn hamlet]

ok so minus 1 hit for stagger is "decent" now

[wary hound]

but u get more healing windows
AND faster ( not by much still there tho )
and also without quickslash u dont lose that much dps its not that much dps loss

[worn hamlet]

literally any charm effect in the game is better than that

[knotty ravine]

would it be also interesting if equipping blow gave guys that don’t usually have a stagger one

[ebon depot]

I didnt say gwomb is bad orginally but i will now lol, that shit is straight up a debuf, compared to gwomv heavy blow might aswell be meta its so good

[worn hamlet]

that would be very interesting

[pallid mist]

Still a dps loss, one less hit to stagger means nothing lol

[worn hamlet]

gwomv?

[storm flax]

gwomb

[worn hamlet]

oh

[ebon depot]

Abbreviation for glowing womb

[pallid mist]

lol

[knotty ravine]

this makes it more useless???

[worn hamlet]

im dumb sometimes :D

[analog apex]

I LOVE YURI!!!!!!

[worn hamlet]

but u have to be ragebaiting with the heavy blow love

like genuinely there's no way ur serious

[storm flax]

me too

[knotty ravine]

like if you’re trying to get use out of that charm, you use it on kb guys, cuz at least there you can push them into a corner

[pallid mist]

Well kinda, it’s bad no matter what, the knockback hurts you so without it you’re better off

[ebon depot]

Im not loving hblow lets not get carried away here i just think its not an like, active detriment

[pallid mist]

Y

[knotty ravine]

YEA we agree

[wary hound]

the stagger means u get to heal more often
( not much still there )
also that dps loss isnt that much
especially if the boss likes to walk alot
then u can knock them back
so that u have more time to react

[analog apex]

wtf

[ebon depot]

Like its not super terrible and the stagger is kinda nice

[worn hamlet]

yes it is...

[knotty ravine]

yato this is what I have to deal with

[pallid mist]

Dps loss is still a dps loss

[worn hamlet]

it tangibly decreases ur dps when it knocks away normal enemies, and when it's used on a boss the only thing it does is make it stagger one hit earlier

[pallid mist]

Most bosses dont even stagger lol

[wary hound]

the ability to heal more and take less damage

[worn hamlet]

there's so many reasons for heavy blow to be one of if not the worst charm in the game

[ebon depot]

dps discussions are inherently flawed and i dont like them, bosses move and people are not robots, dps has no direct translation to real world usage

[knotty ravine]

im glad you exist now because now I get to talk to a guy that’s past like the hk learning curve. thats not an accurate way of getting my point across but surely you understand

[pallid mist]

You aren’t getting a stagger doing less damage

[ebon depot]

yeah i get what you mean dw lol

[knotty ravine]

ok good

[worn hamlet]

using dps as a minor factor in if a charm is usable or not is not flawed imo

[wary hound]

huh

[digital grove]

wait this is flowkey clipped wrong tf

NOOOOOOOO

hang on

[pallid mist]

You take longer to get a stagger with a dps loss, the stager change is only there to compensate

[empty lynx]

Special thanks to @low root (and west)

[worn hamlet]

like when something like heavy blow actively hurts ur dps and has a merit that other charms can give with a dps increase on top of that shows how bad heavy blow is

[pallid mist]

For the terrible damage

[digital grove]

it kept the awful ass false knight death in there brah

[worn hamlet]

XD

[empty lynx]

Eig

[ebon depot]

Ok but even in this theoretical were not even arguing with data, whats the dps decrease?

[digital grove]

👀

[empty lynx]

Why are we dying to FALSE KNIGHT

[digital grove]

in my defense i was cyclone wiggling and got too close

(bad at cyclone wiggling)

[pallid mist]

More knockback means more time walking to enemy

[ebon depot]

Yes give me numbers

[empty lynx]

time loss

[worn hamlet]

after the initial hit, the boss is knocked further away making it harder to hit the boss again

[pallid mist]

I don’t have numbers

[empty lynx]

Alot of it

[ebon depot]

Whats before and after

[worn hamlet]

numbers aren't even required here lol

[ebon depot]

Yes thats what im saying

[empty lynx]

It's just common sense gng

[worn hamlet]

this makes heavy blow only usable in tandem with mop

[wary hound]

ok i understand heavy blow is bad
but
that dps only really matters if u have quickslash on
other than that u would not be missing out on THAT MUCH dps
and for smaller bosses it gives more time for you to react

[safe crypt]

it’s actually not based on damage but on combo

[pallid mist]

https://tenor.com/view/an-iq-too-high-raven-crow-tiktok-gif-3869671553367641450

[trim schooner]

whats cyclone wiggling

[worn hamlet]

which is 5 notches and by no means worth it unless you really want that one rad clear no matter how suboptimal u have to be

[pallid mist]

Which leads to less damage. Dps

[worn hamlet]

yes

[digital grove]

when you wiggle back and forth while cycloning false knight/failed champ during stagger

[worn hamlet]

being able to combo less decreases ur dps

[trim schooner]

why is that good what

[pallid mist]

ITS STILL A DPS LOSS

[digital grove]

to maximize hits that actually land cus cyclone is weird on staggered fk/fc for some reason

[safe crypt]

i’m not saying heavy blow
is good but ig for some people it works

[trim schooner]

is it just for fun

[trim schooner]

oh lmao wtf

[wary hound]

its still more healing opportunitiess ur dense

[ebon depot]

I disagree, i dont see how you could try to judge the disadvantage of a charm without even actually knowing how big it is

[wary hound]

heavy blow couldnt push you around

[trim schooner]

you cant talk objectively about dps loss, or everyone would be abusing flukenest bug

[pallid mist]

How are you gonna heal when you do less damage to get a stagger that enables healing

[worn hamlet]

you can use logic to guess at how much lower the numbers are compared to something else which you do know the numbers for

[ebon depot]

That there is one is undeniable, yes, but if you lose 1 or 25 dps makes quite the difference

[worn hamlet]

like fury being a conditional 75% increase on dmg

[wary hound]

you know what
this argument has just looped were repeating the same thing over and over and over again
so LETS agree to disagree

[ebon depot]

Ok, i didnt get any guesses either when i asked for nimbers

[safe crypt]

no but on a real note heavy blow is buns

[worn hamlet]

sounds good to me :D

[safe crypt]

and quick slash is the goat

[ebon depot]

I just got no numbers lmao

[pallid mist]

Yes I love that sentence
Agree to disagree

[worn hamlet]

tanks for noticing that sun, I got wayy too into things XD

[safe crypt]

if ur not using quick slash ummm…..

[trim schooner]

quickslash meta

[pallid mist]

I’d marry agree to disagree

[wary hound]

👍

[worn hamlet]

loll

[wary hound]

give me a boss people

[trim schooner]

but what about agreeing to disagreeing to agreeing to disagree?

[pallid mist]

Nkg only with spore shroom

[pallid mist]

https://tenor.com/view/squid-game-oh-my-god-bruh-saleswoman-oh-my-god-bruh-gif-2398788864743270124

[trim schooner]

rad uumuu toa only

[wary hound]

no
i said a boss not the challenge

[pallid mist]

Absrad

[trim schooner]

anyrad 3.0

[wary hound]

fuck u
im doing o4r absrad now 😭

[knotty ravine]

ehhh yato we can surely agree hblow is irrelevant but still does SOMETHING if you wanted to bitch

that’s all we need to say for that charm

[empty lynx]

Which is make obblobles exist less annoyingly
That's it

[ebon depot]

Yeee thats my stance on it anyway

[trim schooner]

lmaooo gl

[knotty ravine]

ok awesome

[pallid mist]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1220089366483833004/1470589831699628156/Untitled_12-30-2024_10-29-29.gif

[knotty ravine]

actually u should peep the tierlist i wonder what you think

[empty lynx]

Rab absrad except now each attempt is 4x longer

[ebon depot]

Wait where was the tierlist, did I miss it

[wary hound]

NO its like 12x ( no charms )

[knotty ravine]

nah it’s here dw

[ebon depot]

Do PV instear its coolee

[knotty ravine]

this is for modern current hk