hk-discussion

[zealous skiff]

genuinely I feel like the word "ragebaiting" is just a progression of the thing where primary school bullies/pricks would say something awful and say "just joking". It's so childish and just a way for dickheads to expose themselves as such

[zinc iris]

Oh serenity got banned

?

[young lake]

hi blueberry

[young lake]

yeah

[analog apex]

was it u who pinged me i can’t find it

hii

[young lake]

no i dont think so

hru

[zinc iris]

He was an annoying rage baiter so I never interacted

[floral basalt]

hey guys, ive been trying to beat radiant markoth. i need some help. my current build is joni's, lifeblood heart, lifeblood core, and unbreakable heart. any tips?

[young lake]

ur last ping was from ojb

[analog apex]

just woke up from my 4th time sleeping today i’m pretty good wbu

[zealous skiff]

so original

[slow python]

honestly the whole "lets be mean to eachother" thing in general kind of very much pisses me off but thats a different topic i feel like

[analog apex]

:((

[slow python]

have.. have you tried using anything else that doesnt give you health

[young lake]

i tried to not interact with them but they would just say shit about anyone for no reason

how serdna be looking

[floral basalt]

think about it. if he one shots me WITH all those charms, imagine how bad it would be WITHOUT them

[shrewd nymph]

schrodinger's asshole. but yeah for real i immediately unassociate with anyone who does 'ragebaiting' as their personality or in a dick way, it screams immaturity

[knotty ravine]

block

[zinc iris]

Me when being annoying is my personality

[analog apex]

i love ragebaiting @cold abyss

[knotty ravine]

block people. please

its so useful

[slow python]

ok good point
honestly im the qorst person to respond to your question i havent done anything w godseeker

im too silksongful but i also havent finished silksong yet so hollow knight discussion is where i will reside

[young lake]

this is an awesome way to think about it

[zinc iris]

I personally dislike discord block feature when it keeps showing messages blocked and stuff

[young lake]

yeahh half of the time i end up looking at the messages either way

[floral basalt]

"good point" now i feel bad srry 😭

[slow python]

i think being nice to people does wonders actually

[zealous skiff]

yup

[slow python]

NO ITS OK

[zinc iris]

I wish it was done in a way where it wud be like if tht user didn't exist from ur pov

[slow python]

i wasnt trying to make u feel bad i just thought the setup was a little funny with my semi intermediate knowledge on hk charm combos

[floral basalt]

i was lowk trolling before mb

[slow python]

WHAT!!!!

[shrewd nymph]

i did but on mobile it still says 'x blocked messages' which is obnoxious when theyre spamming.
also they were dicks to everyone so people wouldnt even get a chance to block them

[floral basalt]

nah i was trolling its good

[shrewd nymph]

so i did but its not a reason to not report them

[slow python]

sobs

its ok

[floral basalt]

lmao

[sturdy galleon]

download a plugin that removes blocked messages.

[knotty ravine]

oh i agree

[shrewd nymph]

on pc i can hide the blocked messages (excluding replies) atleast

[zinc iris]

Is that there on mobile ?

[slow python]

im so curious how annoying exactly was this person in question. like what would they say or do

[young lake]

they were just an asshole to people like you couldnt do anything without being shit on by them

[sturdy galleon]

you can do this easily on both most mobile platforms and pc. im not sure if it's a thing on ios.

[shrewd nymph]

its just ur typical chronically online tiktok brain tryna 'ragebait' people

[zealous skiff]

now serenity is banned when are we getting deto "totally not a bigot just really likes 'christianity'" nator banned

[knotty ravine]

i would post the hitler dead image but like it isnt even allat. that guy was just mildly annoying

[foggy copper]

wthelly

[slow python]

bbno$ dead

[slow python]

ew

[knotty ravine]

yea

[shrewd nymph]

i need context shirt

[zealous skiff]

name one good thing thats come out of the concept of ragebaiting

[slow python]

im so used to ignoring peiple in larger servers but if yall are like "yeah thos person SUCKED" i cant even imagine just how annoying they were

[shrewd nymph]

you can quickly identify weirdos

[foggy copper]

funny
then you get fucking smited

[young lake]

like the worst part about them is that they had like 2 other little sidekicks that were equally as miserable

[shrewd nymph]

why does modmail sound like an army sniper team 💀

[young lake]

and like backed each other up

[slow python]

"yeah we took them out back and shot them" ass message im crying

[shrewd nymph]

i literally never saw serenity or erad in the channel without the other one

[foggy copper]

the report of absolute doom and despair

[slow python]

ohh they were those type of people

like

[young lake]

yeah it fucking sucked

[slow python]

just constantly miserable

i think

[shrewd nymph]

3 of them got banned but one only got muted which is funny

[young lake]

because its hard to ignore them when its not just 1 single person and other people keep feeding into it

[slow python]

no you're so right

[slow python]

hii seth

yeah thats fair enough

blocking in discord servers also really sucks because other peopel wont block them and youll still. see that theyre a part of the conversation

[zealous skiff]

alt accounts

[proud haven]

Hi super sigmas

[zealous skiff]

100%

[young lake]

hi connor

[brittle laurel]

hello 👋

[slow python]

ive also been in servers where people will tell someone to "dni" which is a really weird concept in discord where its rapid fire texting and things and convos disappear as fast as theyre said

[floral basalt]

yeah its annoying because they dont get removed, it still shows they sent a message which is kinda annoying

[slow python]

super sigma 🥹

[shrewd nymph]

you mightve called it 4 messages early

[copper spruce]

Hi I'm new

[brittle laurel]

me too

[young lake]

did u not see them earlier

[shrewd nymph]

huh?

[slow python]

no way this guy 112% on her first day

[young lake]

like brand new account pink discord pfp with the username bobminion

[young lake]

,

[floral basalt]

bro when does the "new" symbol go away ive lowk been here a week 😭

[proud haven]

U don't have it fr

[brittle laurel]

i got discord today

[wicked kiln]

exactly

[analog apex]

tb me

[wicked kiln]

and they call me crazy

[slow python]

im on mobile

what symbol yall talkin about

OH

the sprout one

yeah

[floral basalt]

u should get hollow knight mobile its fire

[slow python]

NO WAY

[floral basalt]

not trollling

[copper spruce]

@shrewd nymph calculus

[shrewd nymph]

cant prove its an alt ig, if they be immature weirdos again then it'll be obvious, and if not then its not a huge issue ig

[sleek bear]

isn't that just pirating?

[zealous skiff]

wdym

[shrewd nymph]

[floral basalt]

lol

[proud haven]

Are you a super sigma if u hate all men and puppy girls fr that's so evil ong

[shrewd nymph]

nvm

[floral basalt]

idk i saw someone beat NKG on a phone it was hilarious

[slow python]

man ive done sky cotl on mobile for like 5 years, hk cannot be that terrible

[analog apex]

i only hate the ones that i don’t like

[slow python]

that is a terrible comparison but let me live

[zealous skiff]

anyway ive had enough fun discussing shit people how is r5 going

[wicked kiln]

there was a mass banning?😭

[floral basalt]

lmao

[sleek bear]

honestly I'm playing hk on phone and gonna be real, it feels more comfortable then pc or console

[shrewd nymph]

slope intercept form just refers to y = mx + c where m = gradient and c = y-intercept. just rearrange the equations to meet that form

[slow python]

how do you hate men and puppygirls i feel like these are two entirely differemt worlds

[copper spruce]

Wtf is a y intercept

[shrewd nymph]

whose doing r5

[slow python]

ARE YOU 5 YEARS OLD

[zealous skiff]

i thought you were

[slow python]

SOBS

[zealous skiff]

oh wait

[fresh isle]

w calculus

[zealous skiff]

im dumb asf

[floral basalt]

the y intercept is the point at which x=0

[shrewd nymph]

y-intercept is the point that a line intercepts the y axis (so when x = 0)

[zealous skiff]

💀

[shrewd nymph]

i beat it a little bit ago 😭

[copper spruce]

[slow python]

nah i gotta get out of here these guys dont know what y intercept is

[copper spruce]

Lune did r5?

[shrewd nymph]

im just improving my anyrad for a cleaner clear

[analog apex]

idr hate either primarily a joke but the puppygirls thing is about my friend and the men part is about my siblings

[slow python]

i dont even like math im dyscalculox

[brittle laurel]

point at which x=0

i think

🤔

[slow python]

ohh ok mb

[shrewd nymph]

why is that an issue 😭

[slow python]

i was not in the know

[floral basalt]

yeah when x=0

[analog apex]

why r u in my server leave.

[copper spruce]

Me when I lie

[slow python]

[copper spruce]

[sleek bear]

80% save file btw 😭

[floral basalt]

yea fr were hk nerds not math nerds

[zealous skiff]

fun fact not even is at the same point in education or takes the same subjects as you

[languid gale]

i wonder what % is missing

[analog apex]

it’s ok i forgive you

[brittle laurel]

👍

[languid gale]

are notches required for 112?

[copper spruce]

Chomp

[languid gale]

i dont think they are

[heavy barn]

phenomenal diagram

[brittle laurel]

they are not

[shrewd nymph]

intercepts form is x/a + y/b = 1 btw

[zealous skiff]

yup

[sleek bear]

Yeah same

[floral basalt]

no but charms are

[copper spruce]

The fuckers in my computer laboratory replaced all the desktops with mini mac pcs

[fresh isle]

no

[copper spruce]

Theg didn't even change the keyboards bro

[zealous skiff]

ive never heard of this lol

[floral basalt]

its probably either pantheons or collosseum

[slow python]

[brittle laurel]

did they do p5

[floral basalt]

bro did u drop out of 7th grade 😭 🙏

[copper spruce]

ITS SO UGLY

[sleek bear]

I've already done collo it's pantheons aside from the horrendous collection of charms i have

[floral basalt]

p4 is a percent but p5 is not

[zealous skiff]

que?

[copper spruce]

Do they call the moving of numbers over there "transposing"?

[zealous skiff]

I don't think you understand how pointless that is

[languid gale]

this is NOT in 7th grade

[copper spruce]

Idk if it's under a different name in aus

[shrewd nymph]

it literally has like minimal use

ive used it like twice

[heavy barn]

it literally is

[shrewd nymph]

translating is what im used to

[heavy barn]

prealgebra

or early algebra I

[languid gale]

hardly used tho

i literally forgot it

[copper spruce]

They have different names

Wtf

Math is like

[heavy barn]

er

[copper spruce]

One of the most consistent subjects why change the name

[heavy barn]

hardly used is certainly a statement

[copper spruce]

[zealous skiff]

yeah its never used

[sleek bear]

being real, 90% of the subjects u learn are either gonna be forgotten or never used

[zealous skiff]

its like mixed fractions

[shrewd nymph]

ive basically never used it tbf

[zealous skiff]

which look more like multiplication

[heavy barn]

well intercept form comes back in linear algebra

in spirit

[copper spruce]

Anyway it's geometry + calculus

Therefore I hate math

[languid gale]

most people agree its barely used

[sleek bear]

yh

[copper spruce]

And lines

[shrewd nymph]

do you know like a roadmap of math topics or a good place to search?

[copper spruce]

Or that shit about degrees

Ask genio

[wicked kiln]

@hot moon yo why they ban my goat

[copper spruce]

Bro tutored me earlier

[wicked kiln]

https://tenor.com/view/spider-man-spider-man-web-of-shadows-depressed-sad-gif-16524395

[shrewd nymph]

i really wonder why

[floral basalt]

yeah i learned slope intercept form in 7th grade maybe even 6th

[wicked kiln]

nah deadass tho he said he was talm bout inflation and got banned😭

[shrewd nymph]

he was also just a weirdo

[limber bear]

https://tenor.com/view/mouse-gif-14160970482340080146

[slow python]

also i know that this message is a zillion seconds old but thats genuinely my bad, i keep forgetting that the people i interwct with are in vastly different age ranges than me 😔

[floral basalt]

bro u learn slope intercept form and y intercepts in like 7th grade

[brittle laurel]

https://tenor.com/view/zote-grey-prince-zote-hollow-knight-gif-15797788622951956670

any zote fans

[heavy barn]

it's relevant in spirit in linear algebra which is probably the most useful math class

[limber bear]

nah i left him to die

[copper spruce]

Why

[earnest apex]

Hi

[floral basalt]

no way i spent like hours doing his 5th fight in bretta's basement before i figured out i didnt have 2

[limber bear]

https://tenor.com/view/mouse-gif-14160970482340080146

[slow python]

im 21 and havent had to take a maths class in 2 years so im probably at the same level as a freshman in hs regardless lol

[earnest apex]

Lucky

[copper spruce]

Lune did they ever teach the hand thing

In your classes

[floral basalt]

exactly

[languid gale]

not in 7th grade which is what we were discussing

[wicked kiln]

good point

[zealous skiff]

https://angle.wtf/ this reminds me of peak

[heavy barn]

not really sorry

I'm trying to figure that out myself ngl

[wicked kiln]

btw i finally did every binding individually

[floral basalt]

how is slope intercept form hardly used 😭

[wicked kiln]

i entzered flow state and first tried every single one

[shrewd nymph]

no worries, i'll have a look around. thanks

[shrewd nymph]

💀

ggs wow

[heavy barn]

we were discussing intercept form not 7th grade

it just got brought up that you learn it in 7th

[languid gale]

in the reply chain that u just replied to yes it was

the usage of it in 7th grade

[wicked kiln]

altho charm and soul got very close

[copper spruce]

Why do they keep asking me to find x if I'm not a pirate@shrewd nymph

[earnest narwhal]

gang is it okay if i uninstall hk because of a glitch.

[slow python]

i mean regardless of how much math is used in the "real world" it's important for the growth of your brain to be able to mess around with numbers and understand complex equations, it kinda just helps you critically think which i feel like is a dying art anyway

[heavy barn]

not really

[shrewd nymph]

💀

[wicked kiln]

what glitch

[heavy barn]

you were just saying you don't use it

[shrewd nymph]

holy peak comment

[knotty ravine]

firered

[slow python]

but i totally get yall that math seems useless but i prommy slommy that it is useful in ways you might not get yet. trust

[languid gale]

i agree with u but ur in the wrong reply chain then

[earnest apex]

Man, you made a good decision

[shrewd nymph]

math trains pattern recognition and critical thinking

[heavy barn]

prob replied to the wrong message at some point then mb

[slow python]

no im just a music tech major and i dont need math classes LOL

[floral basalt]

exactly, it just makes you smarter

[slow python]

but thank u <3

[earnest apex]

Based

Music is even a lot easier than Mathematics

[earnest narwhal]

well not a glitch but my nintendo died when i beat pantheon 1 with all bindings.

and it didnt save

[zealous skiff]

hot take but outside of school maths is fun

[wicked kiln]

why uninstall just lock in😭

[earnest apex]

Man, you're lucky you don't attend Math classes anymore

[slow python]

for me its abt the same difficulty only because music theory and music tech involves a lot of precise and small numbers which my dyscalculia (i always forget how to spell it) always messes up

[copper spruce]

What

[floral basalt]

fr its not like it was p5 😭

[heavy barn]

school math is just taught terribly in a lot of places

[slow python]

in depth music theory does involve some forms of math

[sleek bear]

p1 is easy anyways 😭

[knotty ravine]

find my x

[copper spruce]

Math is fun but it's taught in the most unintuitive way known to man

[wicked kiln]

i would say p1ab is on par but easier than p5 alone

[slow python]

but thats if youre gettinf like. super into it which most people arent required to

[earnest narwhal]

omgg hi lace

[slow python]

hiii

[shrewd nymph]

eh, i enjoy math alot with good teachers so i think thats more the issue.
math is also very fun when you understand whats going on

[earnest apex]

No, Math is extremely hard

[copper spruce]

There

[floral basalt]

i lowk meant p5 ab u dont uninstall if you lose p5

[earnest narwhal]

actually ima lock inill text later

[wicked kiln]

oh yeah true

[earnest apex]

But at least it is a lil' bit easier than Physics

[heavy barn]

people have different strengths and weaknesses

[slow python]

i onlh survived my highschool math classes cause for 3 years my teacher was the samr person who led our theatre class lol

[copper spruce]

Physics is just math for bald people

[floral basalt]

calculus is not easier than physics

[earnest apex]

But it's still hella difficult

[slow python]

thats ironic because i LOVE physics

[earnest apex]

Bruh

[slow python]

only because it quite literally puts physical aspects to numbers, which helps me a lot personally

[floral basalt]

damn so ur teacher was chill

[slow python]

yesss she was so nice i got extremely lucky.. now i am cuesed with a piano lesson teacher who wants me dead because i dont practice 100 hours per week

[floral basalt]

physics has so much math, you have to like math to like physics

[zealous skiff]

teachers make a big difference. another thing is I feel like the bland repetitive nature of homework is part of why so many people hate maths. If you are good at a topic it feels easy, tedious and boring. If you are bad at a topic it feels oerwhelming, tedious, depressing and boring

[heavy barn]

im in the small boat of liking math but not physics

[zealous skiff]

physics bricks my brain

[slow python]

you're right, to be fair i also havent had to do any physics in like.. 5 years? 6? idk

but when i did it i LOVED it

[copper spruce]

That's why

[brittle laurel]

6 orrrrrr 7 years

[copper spruce]

You ask random people on the internet

[shrewd nymph]

i like all the physics that is just math, stuff thats recalling and understanding principles (ew magnetism) i disliked

[heavy barn]

ironically I like physics in the context of chemistry like pchem but not actual physics

[floral basalt]

fair

[copper spruce]

67

[zealous skiff]

yup

[heavy barn]

and math

[slow python]

however comma , I dont like chemistry

[heavy barn]

but not the mid ground

[slow python]

evil science.

[earnest apex]

I blanked out we were in a Hollow Knight server, not a Math server

[slow python]

(im biased my girlfriend hates chemistry so bad)

[floral basalt]

mobile fail

[copper spruce]

Chemistry was piss easy

[brittle laurel]

[wicked kiln]

planning on doing r5 and getting the glowing gem stone and not doing ab

[hidden spire]

Cro

[slow python]

that was on purpose trust

[copper spruce]

Fuck physics though

[shrewd nymph]

my math homework was like 4-5 questions that were some of the hardest of their topic, and you were allowed to do it with others so i lowk enjoyed them

[brittle laurel]

6 orrrrr 7 questions

[floral basalt]

damn

[earnest apex]

Biology > Chemistry

[shrewd nymph]

get a mod to overlap then 😭

[floral basalt]

stfu fr

[languid gale]

gl

[wicked kiln]

does it work?

what mod

[shrewd nymph]

godseeker+ can do it in godseeker saves

[brittle laurel]

[copper spruce]

Lune

[earnest apex]

And Mathematics too

[heavy barn]

chem is peak science

[copper spruce]

Find my y

[hidden spire]

Six.. seven...

[brittle laurel]

be nice

[shrewd nymph]

i dont remember the one for normal saves

[heavy barn]

actually I really like qmech but not classical physics

[brittle laurel]

you get it!

[shrewd nymph]

your y is to play hollow knight

[heavy barn]

it breaks your brain in funny ways

[floral basalt]

the katakuri pfp is 🔥

[slow python]

i think i just have the worst takes in everytbign tbh

[wicked kiln]

❤️

[earnest apex]

[shrewd nymph]

looks like this in a godseeker save

[slow python]

🙏

[earnest apex]

https://tenor.com/view/the-radiance-hollow-knight-pale-king-watch-your-tone-watch-your-tone-mf-gif-25105189

[wicked kiln]

it is luckily one

[slow python]

i am not easily swayed by the WOKE media and the.. the Li berbablabaobal

[hidden spire]

I will change my pfp to femboy ji

[slow python]

im kidding im gay dont @ me

[heavy barn]

I mean it's all just preferences

[floral basalt]

nah everyone is just a hater

[brittle laurel]

🤣

[shrewd nymph]

[copper spruce]

No

Go explode

[hollow forge]

today

[slow python]

the world is full of joy and whimsy and i will tell myself this foreber and ever

[hollow forge]

gpz dies forever

[slow python]

(i am WRONG)

[floral basalt]

only if you beat his 10th fight i didnt even get past the 5th 😭 🙏

[slow python]

i only have 87% or so in hk i might be cooked

[zealous skiff]

BRO I WISH

[slow python]

i NEED to be hollowknightful

[brittle laurel]

67%

[zealous skiff]

IN AN ALTERNATE UNIVERSE

[floral basalt]

damn i almost have 113%

[slow python]

this guy^ is

[shrewd nymph]

shouldve went to my school smh

[slow python]

no way

i know the max is 112 :(

why do you HATE ME!!!!!

[languid gale]

i wish i could get 113

[floral basalt]

im gonna try to get 105% in silksong tmrw but i think itll take too long

[slow python]

humblebee im cancellong you for umm um um um . yea

canceled 5eva

[floral basalt]

lmao

[languid gale]

gl

u got this fs

[zealous skiff]

too late now

[floral basalt]

5eva is wild 😭

[floral basalt]

thanks bro

[zealous skiff]

wait can i see some of the problems im lowk interested

[earnest apex]

https://tenor.com/view/hollow-knight-silksong-hornet-silksong-today-hollow-knight-silksong-gif-10493088131160255978

[shrewd nymph]

you'd find them pitifully easy

[slow python]

my friends ask me. locust. why do you type like a 16 year old weird girl who uses tumblr. even though you're 21 and have a job. and im like. you see. I'm

[shrewd nymph]

it wasnt like super advanced but it was ones you cant just do in ur head

[hollow forge]

i didnt get past the 4th and hes the main reason im doing p3 over and over again

[shrewd nymph]

like the ones you'd typically find on the last 2 questions of a standard hw

[hollow forge]

fucker gives me no soul left by the time uumuu rolls around

[floral basalt]

yeah thats lowk wut i was thinking

im kidding

[zealous skiff]

you overestimate e and understimate the difference between curriculums

[slow python]

im just evil and crazy dont mind me

[zealous skiff]

oh ic

ok lowk those ones i always find just tedious

[shrewd nymph]

vic is basically qld but harder

[zealous skiff]

are you sure about that

[floral basalt]

like the easy review questions?

[shrewd nymph]

most of the time they were enjoyable here

[floral basalt]

fr

[shrewd nymph]

the last few questions are normally the hardest ones in my experience

[earnest apex]

Is that a genuine way to avoid being spoiled in Silksong?

[floral basalt]

oh for me theres hard questions and then 2 easy ones at the end

[shrewd nymph]

i can see the logic behind both tbf

[slow python]

thats it im feeding you to my snails

[floral basalt]

if u dont want to be spoiled just completely avoid the internt

[floral basalt]

😭

noooo

[floral basalt]

but im made of lettuce nooooo

[earnest apex]

Sometimes I get spoiled by Silksong live streams on YouTube, Twitch and TikTok lol

[floral basalt]

i just watched fireb0rns full playthrough before even starting lol

[earnest apex]

Noooo!!!

[floral basalt]

ik idk why i did that it kinda sucked

[earnest apex]

What's the point of playing it then? 🥺

[floral basalt]

atleast i payed hk blind

until i started trying to get true ending

[languid gale]

i was an idiot and searched everything up 💔

[floral basalt]

yeah thats prob why i enjoyed hk over silksong for me silksong just felt like doing things i was forced to do

[earnest apex]

This is why we shouldn't watch full gameplays of videogames we haven't played before

[floral basalt]

but its still a great game

[floral basalt]

yeah ik lol

[quartz cave]

gmcb

[floral basalt]

im gonna do the dlc blind tho

[earnest apex]

It ruins the enjoyment

It ruins the experience

It ruins surprises

everything

[floral basalt]

even so i think i would have enjoyed hk more anyway after fully completing hk and nearly completing skong, i just enjoy playing hk more even after finishing it

[earnest apex]

That's why I avoid anything related to Silksong until I obtain all the Hollow Knight achievements.

[floral basalt]

no way ur tryin to get steel heart im never doing that shit takes way too long

[earnest apex]

I have no choice

I need those precious achievements

My precious achievements

I need all those achievements unlocked

[floral basalt]

i had 109% before silksong came out, i took a break from hk, 99%ed skong, and then gave up and went right back to hk lmao

[carmine lava]

https://tenor.com/view/rain-world-saint-purgatory-rw-rainworld-gif-580333334670496057

[earnest apex]

[floral basalt]

bro what is even the plot of rainworld 😭

[earnest apex]

what a chonky boi

[carmine lava]

erm that would be a spoiler

[floral basalt]

he fly. he fat. but most importantly, he attack

[languid gale]

are those the guys that charge at u in the hive

[carmine lava]

rain world has like 3 plots overall though

or like

idk what the word is

[floral basalt]

arcs?

[carmine lava]

no

[hollow forge]

ontologically evil enemy

[carmine lava]

they're seperate

the slugcats, the iterators, and the ancients

[floral basalt]

i gave up after i realized enemies could chase you INTO OTHER ROOMS. my hk brain has not adapted to that threat

[crimson quiver]

Cute boi

[floral basalt]

but like pls tell me why its raining all the time and y the woorld is so messed up

[carmine lava]

bro gave up on like room 10

[earnest apex]

They deal two damage (or four if you're overcharmed)

[earnest apex]

dangerous boi*

[languid gale]

i kinda like them even though they were annoying when i was in the hive

[carmine lava]

iterators need water to cool their systems and that water has to go somewhere

something like that

[floral basalt]

thats like saying "oh, every enemy in the game deals some damage but it deals double if you're overcharmed"

[crimson quiver]

But still a cute boi

[languid gale]

true but hes saying the amount

since some deal 1 some deal 2

[floral basalt]

kind of a stretch mayb but are the iterators like the architect in the matrix?

[carmine lava]

idk anything about the matrix

[floral basalt]

oh u should watch it its lowk fire

[earnest apex]

Until it does blast the player with its chonky body

[floral basalt]

or u just abyss shriek its ahh

[earnest apex]

[crimson quiver]

Just gonna put hiveblood

[earnest apex]

But those dangerous bois deal two damage

[floral basalt]

i was about to say if u wear hiveblood they dont attack u yeah

[earnest apex]

Too dangerous

[floral basalt]

nah they wont attack

[floral basalt]

no enemies from the hive attack if u wear hiveblood

[crimson quiver]

With hiveblood i can be with those cute bois safely

[earnest apex]

Oh wait I forgot

You're right

[floral basalt]

fr

[floral basalt]

yeah i messed up big i went into the hive looking for the last grub and had to massacre all the bees cause they attacked me, and only after i freed it did i remember abt hiveblood

[earnest apex]

Poor bees

They just wanted to defend the Hive

[floral basalt]

little did they know that their bodies were useless against a blast of fucking void from the literal shade lord 😭

[crimson quiver]

I love hiveblood just because of that effect

[wicked kiln]

hivebloods ass

[crimson quiver]

But lets me be with cute bees

[wicked kiln]

no

hiveblood is horrid

[floral basalt]

it singlehandedly let me beat the path of pain wdym

[shy patio]

How do i confess to s flukemunga

[earnest apex]

Don't bee a bee hater

[kind sigil]

imagine hating bees

could never bee me

[wicked kiln]

only 1 section where you cant infinite heal and its not even the hardest

[floral basalt]

if you're doing the path of pain WITHOUT hiveblood theres smthgn wrong

[wicked kiln]

only 1 section in pop where you cant infinite heal

[floral basalt]

but do you want to spend ur time healing or actually playing

[wicked kiln]

so its useless

[zinc iris]

U can use gsong plus deep focus too

[crimson quiver]

"This is good news, Mark. We can finally s"

[zinc iris]

For similar results

[wicked kiln]

it only heals 1 mask in several seconds

[floral basalt]

if you keep going it'll heal while ur platforming

[wicked kiln]

you can play till 1 hp

and then heal max

in some seconds

[floral basalt]

and you dont have to sit there and heal constantly

[wicked kiln]

or just wait till 1 hp and max heal

[floral basalt]

nah cause u hit the soul totem, heal to full, then hit it again

takes too long

[wicked kiln]

hit the soul totem get 6 heals and heal max

[crimson quiver]

Let me change that real quick

[kind sigil]

https://tenor.com/view/no-i-dont-think-i-will-captain-america-old-capt-gif-17162888

[floral basalt]

nah for example in the last room your hiveblood mask will always heal before you get hit again unless u suck and get it on the first spikes

also bonus use case if you have it on in the hive then the bees wont attack u

[crimson quiver]

Best use of all

[wicked kiln]

you wont go back to hive after getting it

[floral basalt]

to rescue grubs

[hollow forge]

the grimmkin:

[floral basalt]

that too

[wicked kiln]

yeah i would rather use deep focus and quick focus

if i do

[crimson quiver]

i will, because i like bees

[trim schooner]

oh yo rindura wsp ggs on 04r5ab

[kind sigil]

https://tenor.com/view/omni-man-omni-man-are-you-sure-are-you-sure-invincible-gif-3935116808772397515

[floral basalt]

u literally go back to the hive to rescue 2 grubs AND kill a grimmkin nightmare

[trim schooner]

wait whats 04? old nail white spells?

[wicked kiln]

supppp yeah took me some tries had me actually use my second had for once but i beat it

[wicked kiln]

ye

[trim schooner]

lol ggs

[wicked kiln]

oh yeah grimmkin

but the grubs are usually rescued before

[floral basalt]

you dont want bigbee atttacking u while ur killing a grimmkin

[slate ferry]

Ya'll think it's better to play with rumble on?

[kind sigil]

https://tenor.com/view/nice-guy-to-bad-boy-gif-15093362524170978958

[wicked kiln]

true thats actually a valid point i can agree on that

[kind sigil]

no

[copper spruce]

Don't die

[floral basalt]

for some reason i couldnt find the last grub in the hive where you have to dive in that one spot until like 50 hours into the game even with collector's map

[crimson quiver]

[wicked kiln]

me neither i just expected others to have probaby found it😅

[floral basalt]

fr

[kind sigil]

how broken would multiplayer hk be

[floral basalt]

[floral basalt]

you can literally parry into fungal without dash lmao

[molten relic]

I am mentally shit. My cat is missing for a day and he was sick . I searched the whole block and couldn't find him . Any advice

[crimson quiver]

[floral basalt]

i could be the typical hk community member and quote hornet but i wont

[molten relic]

Dude thx but I ain't kidding

I cried myself to sleep

[floral basalt]

oh srry then idk mb hell come back

[crimson quiver]

Hum… try using something the cat likes…?

[floral basalt]

do cats do that cuz my dogs do

whenever my dogs get out they always come back pretty soon

maybe he'll come back eventually

idk wut cats r like

[molten relic]

Same

[molten relic]

Tried going around the block carrying 10 kg food bag

No cap

[floral basalt]

omg i feel rlly bad srry

[molten relic]

Thx ig

[crimson quiver]

You were shaking the food bag?

[floral basalt]

i mean idk if theres anything u can do except wait for him to come back

[molten relic]

Yh

[molten relic]

No.... there must be smth

[floral basalt]

put up posters

[molten relic]

Got school rn. After I cant xuz here is raining

[uneven ermine]

yeah this prolly the best idea

[floral basalt]

oh mb just drive around w ur parents idk

like tell them to help

[crimson quiver]

Was the cat acting wierd while sick?

[royal helm]

can someone explain how clinking works? i keep clinking enemies but still taking damage

[molten relic]

Dude imma hop on the gates and enter the fieldes

[floral basalt]

like parrying?

[royal helm]

yeah

[molten relic]

Sorry for annoying yall going back to class rn cya

[floral basalt]

it makes you temporarily invincible. you're probably getting hit because you're remaining inside the enmy hitbox, if you want to make a successfull parry upslash instead of forward slashing

it works better most of the time

[uneven ermine]

good luck 💙

[molten relic]

Thx

[crimson quiver]

Hope your cat comes back

[royal helm]

it happens right as i parry usually, itll do the sound effect and the flash but i still take damage

[floral basalt]

again, try upslashing instead of forward slashing

and also move forward after doing it

[royal helm]

alr

ohhhh now i got it

[floral basalt]

what i mean is if the enemy is moving forward while attacking, upslash to parry and walk forward to leave the attack hitbox

[floral basalt]

ok 👍

[wicked kiln]

its a very small window of frames where yopure invincible

if you wanna use parry to go through enemies or sum

you needa study the bosses and how you got through them

pure vessel is like about beginner level when you wanna learn parrying

[royal helm]

im just farming the moss knights or whatever theyre called

yeah moss knights

[kind sigil]

geo?

[royal helm]

yeah

im trying to buy lantern before i do deep nest

[languid gale]

what r u going to deepnest for

[royal helm]

to explore it

havent beent here yet

[shy patio]

Sisters of battle just smashed me

[royal helm]

but its dark

[languid gale]

gl

[wicked kiln]

if youre that level dont even bother thinking about parrying😭

[kind sigil]

i would suggest another farm but the farm in question
is in fucking deepnest

[languid gale]

i think parrying difficulty should be between sk's parry and hk's parry

since in sk u can just spam

and in hk its extremely hard

[royal helm]

alr, i was just curious because i know it exxists and i keep seeing it but its not working quite how i expect

i understand now tho

[royal helm]

literally just ||wanderer|| and spam

[trim schooner]

hi

[wicked kiln]

yeah sk is underwhelming in difficuilty

[royal helm]

early sk is kinda easy

[trim schooner]

parrying in hk was actually fun

[kind sigil]

should i go back to leg eater to repair frag greed for my farm..? hmmm....

[languid gale]

hi

[trim schooner]

hyd

[wicked kiln]

yes

[hollow forge]

i think its only like 60 geo to fix it

[languid gale]

good hbu

[kind sigil]

oh damn thats cheap

gonna do that rq

[trim schooner]

pretty good thx

[kind sigil]

lowk wish i could bench warp

[trim schooner]

been talking to rot discussing if dashless boundless infinity was possible

[languid gale]

thats pretty good especially considering unbreakable charm costs

[hollow forge]

if u activate the grimm troupe that one is the cheapest charm to turn unbreakable btw

[trim schooner]

he doesn't think so but I do

[kind sigil]

im farming geo to get strength back rn

[trim schooner]

oh what I thought itd be a lot more lol

[languid gale]

"infinity" is the mod for boundless infinity right?

im trying it again rn

before i go to sleep

[trim schooner]

yeah

[trim schooner]

gl lol

[royal helm]

feel like i should prob just learn spacing not parrying

[kind sigil]

do you guys have any geo farm suggestions

[languid gale]

im assuming i go to pv in HoG right

[trim schooner]

yup

[languid gale]

ight ty

[trim schooner]

colo2 is good

[hollow forge]

unbreakable greed is pretty pricy yeah, 7k, but fixing it by going to the leg eater is much much cheaper

[trim schooner]

there's another one but idr where

[kind sigil]

guess what im trying to beat rn

[trim schooner]

yeah I never used leg eater to fiz

[hollow forge]

oh nvm its 120 with defenders crest

[trim schooner]

colo 2?

[hollow forge]

still cheap as fuck

[trim schooner]

lmao

[trim schooner]

yeah true

[kind sigil]

unbreak greed is 7k? damn

[languid gale]

how much do yall think unbreakable charms should realistically be

[trim schooner]

strenfth is 15 lmao

[trim schooner]

less than 10k

[hollow forge]

unbreakable strength is 15k and unbreakable heart is 12k

[royal helm]

does ddive do any good damage?

[trim schooner]

its qol anyways

[languid gale]

agreed lol

imo 1k - 3k

[shrewd nymph]

its 9k

[trim schooner]

i think honestly about 5k is goos

[trim schooner]

hi lune

[hollow forge]

holy Fuck

[foggy sable]

getting it fixed is inconvenient

[shrewd nymph]

you gotta change ur discord name so i know what to call you

[kind sigil]

am i able to swap out charms from the guy in the shop next to grimbattle tent

[hollow forge]

yeah so think of it this way

[trim schooner]

lol no

[hollow forge]

its just one trip to kingdoms edge worth of slashing enemies and then 2-3 colosseum 3s

[trim schooner]

end is fine if you're going by my yt/other discord acc

[shrewd nymph]

wai~1

[trim schooner]

infinity is fine too because apparently theres someone else called boundless

[languid gale]

which one tho

[molten relic]

Guys

[trim schooner]

also rot let me name the attacks for binf

[foggy sable]

lune, I was busy yesterday mostly when I made this plan but I think I'm taking a break from godhome to run overworld hitless for a bit

[languid gale]

i think 5k for strength 3k for others

[trim schooner]

str

[trim schooner]

yeah

[shrewd nymph]

oh peak

[foggy sable]

the plan is solidified now

[shrewd nymph]

thats good to hear.. so hitless 112apb is first?

[trim schooner]

yeah, he suggested dimensional slash for great slash so i just named everythung like scify and like higher plane of existence ish

[foggy sable]

hitless all skills first

because any% sucks

[shrewd nymph]

powerscaling ahh boss

[trim schooner]

lol

[molten relic]

Guys my mental health is doo doo. My cat is missing it's raining heavily and I can't put up posters

[foggy sable]

I have 1 attempt done and it was a 2 hit so should be super doable

[knotty ravine]

Rot just fix like one thing on purity and it’ll be great

[shrewd nymph]

oh shit

[trim schooner]

like theres transcendental strike and temporal focus now

😂

[molten relic]

Guys my mental health is doo doo. My cat is missing it's raining heavily and I can't put up posters

[foggy sable]

I know, it was such a fluke run I think but it was crazy

[trim schooner]

instead of great dash and orb summons

[shrewd nymph]

if it helps, mine have ran away like 15 times now and always end up at the door meowing

[knotty ravine]

also make another rad mod that’s exclusively plats and let me playtest it?? it’ll be great??

[shrewd nymph]

cats just like wandering

[foggy sable]

I only practiced thk then just did an attempt

[molten relic]

After how many days?

[knotty ravine]

unfortunately they will still be called great dash and orbs

[shrewd nymph]

usually a day or two

[quartz cave]

@foggy sable

[molten relic]

Dude u don't know how much that relieved me

[quartz cave]

@trim schooner

[foggy sable]

oswald

[quartz cave]

GREYFIREEEE

hi hyd

it feels like i havent seen u here in 4 years

[trim schooner]

what, the binf attacks? my guide wasn't up for very long and then i changed the names so any new players will know the attacks by the new names

[quartz cave]

hru

[trim schooner]

hi oswald hyd

[quartz cave]

thanks gng ✌️

[shrewd nymph]

you're good man, just stay optimistic

[quartz cave]

NOOOO

[shrewd nymph]

hush up buddy

[foggy sable]

I'm good, I was busy all of yesterday which was fun

[languid gale]

@trim schooner how do i get hits 😭

[foggy sable]

hru

[molten relic]

I cried myself to sleep i owe u @shrewd nymph

[quartz cave]

wow lune hates me

[trim schooner]

you press attack

[shrewd nymph]

you're my fan

[languid gale]

thanks for the amazing tip

[quartz cave]

hiii boundless im doing oke getting ready for school 😞

[languid gale]

hes just tping constantly

[trim schooner]

nw i gotchu

[quartz cave]

wait i am YOUR fan?

i mean ig...

[heavy barn]

hi osbald

[shrewd nymph]

do i know you?

[trim schooner]

rip, it's school holidays here in aus

[foggy sable]

I need to submit class times sooner or later

[quartz cave]

hi dweilder fan hru

[foggy sable]

I still have 8 days so a problem for later

[trim schooner]

haven't i sent you the binf guide

[quartz cave]

dni im losing hair by the second

[molten relic]

Yo what the fuh do I do dose heart pieces

[languid gale]

maybe lemme check

[heavy barn]

pretty good wbu

[trim schooner]

ok

[quartz cave]

wbu hyd

[trim schooner]

I can just send it to you again if you want

[languid gale]

i believe that was the guide to download it

and bug fixes

[quartz cave]

balding cause lune is BALD

[shrewd nymph]

im not gonna bald for another like 40 years chill

[trim schooner]

pretty good thx, I'm finally going home tmr and play hk

[shrewd nymph]

some of us arent grown adults

[trim schooner]

sec

[quartz cave]

💔

youre spiritually bald

[molten relic]

True

[molten relic]

Chill vro

[quartz cave]

WAIT WHAT I HAVE TO GO OUT IN 15 MINS BYE

[shrewd nymph]

spiritually i have a long wise gandalf beard

[shrewd nymph]

dont slip

bye

[molten relic]

School

[trim schooner]

rip cya

[molten relic]

Igtg in 5

Anywaya what do the heart pieces do?

[heavy barn]

what if you're the bald one and lune is unbald so you think he's bald but really you are

[royal helm]

test

[molten relic]

Oops that isn't sk

[trim schooner]

they reduce max hp

[molten relic]

I mean I sk

[trim schooner]

oh you mean silk heart?

[molten relic]

No cog

Heart

Piece

Use

[royal helm]

do you want to be spoiled? also go to sk discussion

[trim schooner]

ohhh ||activates second sentinal|| I think but ask in sk channel next time

[molten relic]

Yh I cant find the use anywhere

[molten relic]

Ok thx

[royal helm]

||actuivates a thing named second sentinel, will help in fights occasionally and has a required quest later||

[forest flower]

Meep

[cloud tulip]

what music should i play on my viola? I cant decide

[wooden egret]

Can't even beat traitor king fuh nah

[rough fjord]

I need help with an Akinator question
I'm doing Markoth
Would yall consider dream warrior bosses ghosts?

WHAT DOES THAT MEAN

WHAT DOES IT MEAN
SOMEONE ANSWER THE QUESTION PLEASE
😭

[light snow]

yes

[rough fjord]

Thank you for not just reacting with wheat
lmao

I just choked on my own saliva

I have to restart it
It asked if it used shield
I said no
only to realize that like 30 questions later

I was thinking of the wrong boss

I was thinking of Xero, I had confused the two weapon wise

[hybrid holly]

How do I deal with the hornet spikes

[sick heath]

Hit them

[rough fjord]

smack em with the nail

[carmine lava]

did someone ping me and delete it

[halcyon nexus]

spells work too I think

[rough fjord]

Is markoth widely disliked

[sick heath]

Yeah

[heavy barn]

clear them only on one side and stick to that side so they all spawn out of the way and cap out

Or just be proactive in breaking them

[sick heath]

I don't agree with it but many people hate him

[rough fjord]

He guessed it

It took 80 questions

[idle belfry]

@sick heath heads

[sick heath]

G.G.

[rough fjord]

When you say no
Akinator looks like hes about to shit himself

[hybrid holly]

She has infinite HP holy

Hit her for like 4 mins straight

[sick heath]

What nail do you have?

[hybrid holly]

Sharpened

[sick heath]

[rich stone]

I think that's nail 1 which does 9 damage

[hybrid holly]

It's the level 2 nail

Idk how much damage

I'm using qslash steady body and soul catcher

[rich stone]

Nail level 0 is base nail so nail 1 is 1 upgrade

[hybrid holly]

Oh

[trim schooner]

pretty good, but use shaman if you have it

[trim schooner]

hey pure vessel wsp

hyd

[rich stone]

Getting an extra nail upgrade will increase your damage by around 45%

[trim schooner]

yeah, it's worth going for nail 3 before going for 112

[vestal cedar]

Soul Master or Mantis Lords whose runback is worse

[rich stone]

Hi, I tried Boundless Infinity for 2 hours and I didn't even reach the spike floor phace

[trim schooner]

rip

I wrote a guide for that boss

do you want my to send it to you

[sick heath]

Probably soul master but I don't think its that bad

[rich stone]

I want to beat the boss without a guide first

[trim schooner]

ahk gl

what charms are you using

just wondering

[rich stone]

I just go full nail with QS, Strength, MoP and Long Nail

[hybrid holly]

Don't have

[trim schooner]

I mean do you want a piece of advice or na

cos there's a charm that makes the fight a lot easier

[hybrid holly]

Too big of a detour would need a pale ore and a visit to to city of tears

[trim schooner]

ah then your loadout is fine

[rich stone]

Just tell the charm

[trim schooner]

dashmaster

[hybrid holly]

I feel like I'm getting better but the fight is just so long

[trim schooner]

drop longnail and use dashmaster

and thatll be my recommended loadout for binf first clear

[hybrid holly]

She gets into the staggered state a lot of times

How many phases does she have jesus

[zinc iris]

One

[trim schooner]

2

lmao

[rich stone]

That makes so much sence it should make dodgeing way easier

[zinc iris]

Two staggers are based on hits

[hybrid holly]

How many times does she stop and get staggered

[foggy sable]

did you do a rab clear yet?

[runic flicker]

Guys, Is it possible to kill the Hollow knight using Glowing womb, Quick focus, Grubsong and Weaversong?

[trim schooner]

yeah you just book it to the right

[hybrid holly]

I could count a lot more than 2

[zinc iris]

Staggers are based on hits

[trim schooner]

haven't been able to play for the last week

[zinc iris]

Not hp

[trim schooner]

I'm on holiday

[zinc iris]

So cuz ur nail is weak

[hybrid holly]

Phase 2 is when she does spikes right? What's her health around then

[hybrid holly]

Bleh

[zinc iris]

U will definitely stagger alot more

[foggy sable]

ah I see

[zinc iris]

50% or slightly above/lower

[trim schooner]

also im gonna skip rab and just go for rab mt

[hybrid holly]

Oh so I'm not that far

[foggy sable]

what is mt?

[trim schooner]

minimal telegraphs

[foggy sable]

ah yes

[zinc iris]

Just upgrade the nail lol

[trim schooner]

I'll do a daily binf series till i clear rab mt and hope i get views lol

btw do you think dashless binf is possible

[foggy sable]

I'd play but I don't want to switch to lumafly

[rich stone]

What does minimum telegraphs mean

[foggy sable]

I've never played it

[trim schooner]

rot believes its not but I think its possible

[trim schooner]

ah

[trim schooner]

it's an option to remove half the telegraphs

of the boss

[foggy sable]

switching mod loader is too annoying

[trim schooner]

doesn't seem too difficult

[regal perch]

absolute radiance is actual fucking cancer actually fuck that piece of dogshit

[trim schooner]

what are you using lol

[hybrid holly]

I'd have to get out of kingdom's edge which is annoying for me to travel through, get to crystal peak or whatever to get a pale ore then get to the city of tears then upgrade my nail and go all the way back to the temt

[foggy sable]

scarab

[trim schooner]

😂

[trim schooner]

ah

wait isnt infinity on scarab

[zinc iris]

There's one in ancient basin

[foggy sable]

idk, maybe it was anyrad that didn't work on scarab

[kind sigil]

is it possible to get 5k geo in 15 mins

[zinc iris]

Yes

[trim schooner]

ah

[kindred cliff]

yes

[hybrid holly]

Probably after king's brand door

[trim schooner]

yes

[zinc iris]

U make it sound like a job lol

[kind sigil]

in what location

[trim schooner]

lmao

[zinc iris]

No before

[kindred cliff]

deepnest failed teamway is the goat

[hybrid holly]

Oh

[kindred cliff]

500 in 120 seconds

[foggy sable]

I'm just more focused on hitless to bother with figuring out modded bosses I guess

[trim schooner]

kingdoms edge

[hybrid holly]

Idk still would take a while I'm high-key lazy

[zinc iris]

Hk players when they have to play the game

[trim schooner]

@shrewd nymph what's the video again

[kindred cliff]

overrated

[kind sigil]

zamn thats what im doing rn but -steady body bc walls do the same thing

[sick heath]

Eww playing hk🤢

[hybrid holly]

You can't blame me, kingdom's edge is ass

[trim schooner]

lol

[zinc iris]

Continue ur suffering then

[kindred cliff]

fr

u got greed on?

[foggy sable]

I am unbelievably lazy

[hybrid holly]

[trim schooner]

arent we all

[kind sigil]

hell yes

[foggy sable]

and hitless all skills seems fun enough for now

[kindred cliff]

then u good keep going

[trim schooner]

that sounds awful but you do you lol

[foggy sable]

it is at least enjoyable some amount which is better than r5ab

[kindred cliff]

even tho u should never farm except for unb charms

[trim schooner]

hmm

[regal perch]

the worst boss in the game deadass

[trim schooner]

oh r5ab yeah

[foggy sable]

with hitless you have to enjoy the process or it sucks

[trim schooner]

I thought you said p5ab

[kindred cliff]

anyone knows what wr for p5 all bindings is?

[foggy sable]

I enjoy normal p5ab

[trim schooner]

lol

[trim schooner]

sounds awful to me

I aint every doing that

I haven't even done p3ab lmao

[kindred cliff]

nah peak

[finite ember]

Request to $Chadenreal for 2$ on cashapp AHHAHAHAHAH

[trim schooner]

id disagree but alright lol

[regal perch]

who is the worst iyo

[hybrid holly]

There is nothing normal about p5ab

[rich stone]

You just need to get used to AbsRad

[trim schooner]

prob gpz or markoth

I haven't done p5ab collector so

¯_(ツ)_/¯

[regal perch]

I’ve done it hitless and still hate it bro 😭

[trim schooner]

how's binf going

oh yeah bro once I was doing p5 on stream and ddarked by accident while trying to shriek stall in phase 3 binf

😭

I looked like such an idiot

[vale condor]

Frame interpolating videos with RIFE on frame advancer made it look not so much like a frame advancer

[foggy sable]

it was the first time

[trim schooner]

yeah fair ig

[foggy sable]

...there sort of it

[rich stone]

I got used to the early phaces nail timing since I played Nine Sols parries weren't too hard

[foggy sable]

it becomes more enjoyable the better you get because it is so much more complex than normal p5

[trim schooner]

oh nice

[trim schooner]

lol

[foggy sable]

maybe that is just Stockholm syndrome though who knows

[trim schooner]

I mean everything becomes a lot more enjoyable once you're no longer desperate to do it

i mean biab second clear was so much worse than first