sk-lore

[kindred ingot]

the second video of the series talks about how all that means Pale = Bad

[trail wagon]

I also think that some people take overanalysis of everything from HK way too seriously. I've seen a video of some geologist analyzing the soil textures from HK and Silksong

Like man, no, Team Cherry are not geologists, the textures look like that because it's cool and creates a consistent style

[kindred ingot]

ok. and what did they conclude?

[sinful nimbus]

how else would u make money as a geologist what do they even do all day

[foggy fractal]

look at rocks irl probably

[trail wagon]

Idk, they made a long ahh video comparing it to the real life soil and stuff

[trail wagon]

Ahahahahaha

[kindred ingot]

I know they're not geologists, but it's fun to take what they obviously didn't intend to make sense and make it make sense

[trail wagon]

Yeah, as long as you acknowledge that it's not there lol

Cause some people really put toooo much into it

[kindred ingot]

stare at rocks really hard and tell the government how old the rocks of their country are

[midnight reef]

I like the explanation that video gives for Greymoors Barancles

[trail wagon]

I was quite disappointed when I heard TC describing their world as a "silly bug world"

[kindred ingot]

it technically IS there tho
those things are in-game
we're just giving it meaning

[midnight reef]

Because funnily enough, it's true

[kindred ingot]

3 masks

[trail wagon]

Silly bugs

[foggy fractal]

286 geo

[trail wagon]

That meaning is not there

[sinful nimbus]

The setting is pretty silly and that's been pretty consistent, you can still have emotional storybeats while being silly though

[near jasper]

0 soul

[midnight reef]

... but the bay has since been moved far away, so it doesn't make nearly as much sense

[trail wagon]

Empty vessel

[kindred ingot]

it is when we put it there

[trail wagon]

Wha?

[sinful nimbus]

I Remember You blah blah

[midnight reef]

The bay was were Verdania is now

[trail wagon]

😭🥀✌️

[midnight reef]

Hence Greymoor being covered in baracles

[sinful nimbus]

Tom Kenny had me tearing up bruh that's messed up

[trail wagon]

No??

[midnight reef]

Yes

[trail wagon]

When

[midnight reef]

In 2021

[trail wagon]

Show I forgor

But I'm pretty sure it wasn't

[midnight reef]

Before the Aspids got split into two

[kindred ingot]

"The world has been infected by a curse coming from the ethereal Sun, and your role as a creature of Void is to banish that curse and seal the Sun inside your hollow will. Oh and you're a beetle btw"

[trail wagon]

I mean the thing about this description is that it shows their actual attitude towards their own game

[midnight reef]

I'm not home so I don't have the ACMI maps at hand

[trail wagon]

And that's kinda sad

[kindred ingot]

I like it

[trail wagon]

Tag me when you will be if you want pls

[sinful nimbus]

You can still find verdania assets in moss grotto

[kindred ingot]

they include serious topics and dark settings, but also they don't forget that they're inherently the Bug Game Making Company and always keep a slight lightness to their characters

[midnight reef]

And the Wormways

[trail wagon]

Ahhh I'm quite uniformed then

[kindred ingot]

it balances it out

[midnight reef]

The Blasted Steps still has leftovers of the lift to the Grand Gate

[trail wagon]

The weaver door still there 👀

Do you think there will be more weaver lore in the DLCs?

[midnight reef]

Weavenest Atla wasn't shrunk until 2022

[kindred ingot]

Grimm is a cultist born from the Nightmare Heart who is part of a suicidal ritual where his soul burns to give birth to a new vessel for the Nightmare King, yes, but also he's a moth-thingy with a goofy mouth and a smoker voice

[trail wagon]

Be Team Cherry and not end up moving areas from where they used to be and made perfect sense in terms of lore challenge impossible

[midnight reef]

The map mostly makes sense

[trail wagon]

Do we think the father of the flame has something to do with the NH?

[midnight reef]

There's oddities but they're minor and hard to notice

[trail wagon]

I mean the Bay

[foggy fractal]

I think theres a very high chance we'll see more weaver stuff in dlcs
sos specifically maybe not? who knows

[kindred ingot]

Pale King is a god and king of a dying kindgom, trying desperately to save his people while committing horrible sins towards his children, but he's also a white worm with a crown that's also his mouth

[kindred ingot]

I do but people don't take me seriously when I bring it up

[trail wagon]

The lab might have something to do with the Weavers

[trail wagon]

I feel you.. 😭😭😭

Same

They literally look like a part of the same thing

There's no way it's just a coincidence

[foggy fractal]

idk maybe a dlc will give us more

[trail wagon]

Obviously one flame cult doesn't have anything to do with the old one

Are the petals lifeblood?

[foggy fractal]

the petals where?

[trail wagon]

Looks like it but also not really

[sinful nimbus]

I noticed wormways/verdania but I had also thought about their location for a few years

[trail wagon]

Sos

The lab

[foggy fractal]

these?

I'd assume so

[trail wagon]

Ye

[kindred ingot]

mussels

[trail wagon]

Thunder and lightnings also.. 👀

[kindred ingot]

not new, Land of Storms had it

[trail wagon]

Technically super new cause we only had 1 room with it before

With an incredibly low chance of you getting there

Am I the only one who sees some ||Mourning & Havoc|| vibes from Blasphemous?

I hope we'll get some gigantic hydra-like boss

[craggy smelt]

shipwrecks would be wild

get an idea of what boats are like in holloworld

[trail wagon]

Yeee def

[trail wagon]

Weave divers 😭

[kindred ingot]

maybe even... a zote... boat...

[craggy smelt]

it's happening

[mighty parcel]

How did the Twisted Bud end up in Bilewater?

[foggy stratus]

Unknown. But I have a head canon that the spot Greyroot used to reside at is the spot a Twistes Bud will pop up at.

[sinful nimbus]

cutscene where Hornet lights the lantern and a bunch of Grimmkin start ganging up on her but Grimm cuts through them saying "BACK OFF MY AUNTIE"

would it fit for a potential DLC

[lapis creek]

but they also do a flash to a completely different dialogue

[spark valve]

I hate everything

[lapis creek]

just to leave it ambiguous whether banishment happened or not

[stray grove]

Why would they gang up on her

[spark valve]

people would just assume banishment happened

[stray grove]

Don’t they share a consciousness or smth

[spark valve]

you mean like the void does

pack it up lil bro the writing is nonsense

[sinful nimbus]

true

[stray grove]

I think instead a little Grimmkin would be like “auntie?” then a bunch of them would show up and start going “auntie? auntie? auntie?” And swarm her like those sardines in SpongeBob

Or seagulls or whatever they were I forgot

[lapis creek]

are there seagulls in spongebob

at the bottom of the ocean

[stray grove]

They go to the surface in a couple of episodes this guy doesn’t know ball

[lapis creek]

youre right i dont

[spark valve]

aren't the seagulls from fuckin finding nemo

[lapis creek]

im more of a phineas and ferb guy

[stray grove]

Oh right I was thinking that

[lapis creek]

are they on the surface in that episode

[spark valve]

you gotta lock in

[lapis creek]

and if so how did the sardines get there

[stray grove]

https://tenor.com/view/spongebob-spongebob-meme-spongebob-irl-irl-spongebob-spongebob-on-a-stick-gif-26960028

This is what they look like on the surface

[lapis creek]

slop

[stray grove]

It was actually really funny at the time

[lapis creek]

im so glad i didnt watch this terrible show

[stray grove]

But you clearly don’t know ball

[lapis creek]

team cherry wrote hollow knight and needed more inspiration

so they watched sponmgebob and now the silksong lore is terrible

[spark valve]

so they just copied from hk creating a feedback loop causing their writing to deteriorate like a llm getting ai generated content in its training data

[lapis creek]

don't believe me? the lore of silksong centers around something large and yellow absorbing all of the water from the surrounding environment

are they below sea level? who's to say

[spark valve]

they're certainly beneath a 'surface'

[lapis creek]

true

anyway if they hadnt watched spongebob we would have still had coral gorge

and the game would have been peak

[foggy fractal]

mod creators save us!

[grave stream]

What is the "shade"?
The knight's shade?
The void?
Not the knight, they have a will

[exotic pendant]

I think void and shade is interchangable

[grave stream]

oh ok

i was just looking through the relics and i was confused

[errant vault]

Halo! I made a lore analysis video about the connection between the Nameless Town and the Conductor. If you're interested, feel free to check it out!My previous version had Chinese voice-over, so it wasn't very convenient for people from other countries to watch. I’ve just finished a fully English version, and I hope you enjoy it! https://youtu.be/PnAmy7PbMjI

[paper mantle]

It is

[random harbor]

Charm: Sharp Shadow

Contains a forbidden spell that transforms shadows into deadly weapons.

When using Shadow Dash, the bearer's body will sharpen and damage enemies.

@nostor_10. used /charms category: L-W charm: Sharp Shadow

[grave stream]

hm?

[paper mantle]

[grave stream]

no i know but like what are you trying to prove

[paper mantle]

The words shadow/shade can be used as synonyms for void

[grave stream]

oh ok

[craggy smelt]

i think the ancients were trying to do to themselves what pale king did to the vessels
make themselves into 'shades' using the Void

[paper mantle]

Beyond the message of these tablets, it is impossible for me to compare them with the sights at King Pass and Ancient Basin

And I also notice that they have a white shine

As if it were a soul...

Interestingly, both PK and AC controlled the soul.

Up close, they look like eggs

Eggs of something larger, carved pieces for writing...?

[craggy smelt]

the ancients did use eggs to contain words (arcane eggs)

pk copied soul totems from them, he probably copied this style of tablet as well

MEBI also mentioned that they have a similar whispery sound, though the abyss tablets are spookier

(but I haven't listened to it myself yet)

[paper mantle]

Good point

Wait...

[random harbor]

Lore Tablet: King's Pass - "Focus your Soul"

Higher beings, these words are for you alone.
Your great strength marks you amongst us. Focus your soul and you shall achieve feats of which others can only dream.

@nostor_10. used /lore-tablets area: King's Pass name: "Focus your Soul"

[paper mantle]

They are very, very similar...

[grave stream]

quoting the literal tutorial is crazy in retrospect

this game is always full of lore

it's all lore

[paper mantle]

Even the pattern inside the tablet is different

[grave stream]

even if its not we'll believe it is and act as if it is

[whole holly]

what does this mean? does void clean flaws/emotions from person, Steel Children seem they exist without it

[chilly gate]

It seems so. I think that void itself is not empty matter though, as it's been described as lingering regret and stains that one leaves on the world.

[foggy stratus]

Simply being described as something does not make it that thing.

[chilly gate]

And you have some good arguments, surely?

[foggy stratus]

For Void not being regrets or for my statement in general?

[chilly gate]

The latter

I don't claim it's true btw i said "i think"

[foggy stratus]

Someone who doesnt onoe much about Hollow Knight or ULTRAKILL could see me play and describe me as one of the best players probably ever.

[chilly gate]

I meant the former sorry i mixed these two words up

[foggy stratus]

Only like two people describe it like that off the top of my head, Jiji and the Hunter(i think), neither of which are experts on the Void.

Plus it acts more like rage than regrets if I'm being honest.

[sturdy arrow]

It's symbolic. It's not literally regret, but the void is used to represent the characters' regrets.

The Knight's regrets are being left to die in the Abyss, and when they come to terms with the fact, they void no longer hurts them.

The Pale King regretted his kingdom falling to ruin and his failed attempt to sacrifice his son to seal away the Radiance, and he was killed by the void in his palace.

[foggy stratus]

No he wasnt.

There arent any signs of a Void death on him plus he glows so much it hurts to look at. Any Void near him would get pacified or repelled by his light.

[sturdy arrow]

You can see the Kingsmoulds that broke apart and leaked void around him.

[foggy stratus]

Yeah but the Void is still near the shells iirc.

[sturdy arrow]

There are void particles around him.

[foggy stratus]

And again, no signs of a Void death.

No Void Tendrils entering his shell, no black streaks down his eyes.

[foggy stratus]

Black particles≠Void.

[sturdy arrow]

When have black particles ever been used to not signify void?

[foggy stratus]

GPZ's death animation.

[sturdy arrow]

Grey Prince Zote is a weird thing that looks like a vessel but isn't a vessel. Vessels are void.

It looks like void and there's a reason for that.

[foggy stratus]

Also using Shade Soul and Descending Dark Shamans to upgrade your spells.

[foggy stratus]

Black particles but not Void.

[sturdy arrow]

That's the Knight's void.

[foggy stratus]

It comes from the Shaman's.

[sturdy arrow]

No, the Shamans are being used as sources of power to transform the Knight's spells into void.

Shamans explicitly do not know how to use void.

[foggy stratus]

The black particles come from the Shamans. The particles are not Void.

TK is just absorbing the Shaman to use their power to upgrade its spells.

[sturdy arrow]

It's transforming a spell into a void variant, so it's related to void. It doesn't mean the Shamans can use void.

It means the Knight can use void.

[foggy stratus]

Where are you getting that Shamans can use Void out of this?

[sturdy arrow]

I just said they can't use void.

[foggy stratus]

Im pointing out how the Shamans explode into black particles that arent Void.

[sturdy arrow]

They don't.

The Knight's void appears where the Shaman was.

"Your essence has melded with the spell. You must have found a powerful source to transform it in such a unique, expressive way."

[foggy stratus]

Why on earth would it do that?

[sturdy arrow]

Because it's using the Shaman as a source to transform its own spells into void.

[foggy stratus]

It makes absolutely no sense for TK's Void to just appear where the Shaman was then reenter TK.

Also this is the animation that plays when getting Shade Soul. Looks like a Shaman exploding to me.

https://youtube.com/shorts/dmtncrHuaWw?si=JR2Azc1s1n61EmoL

[sturdy arrow]

It's combining with the spell that the Shaman knows.

[foggy stratus]

TK absorbs the Shaman and uses its power to upgrade a preexisting Spell.

[sturdy arrow]

We already know that Shamans didn't use void until Silksong, so it can't be the Shaman's void.

Still hate that retcon.

[foggy stratus]

Shamans arent Void!

Youre pulling stuff out of thin air at this point!

[sturdy arrow]

"It's not within the skills of us snails to do such a thing.
Wherever you draw this new power from, it's not a place my kind ever thought to look."

They're not void, and they can't use void, at least not until Silksong.

[foggy stratus]

So why bring it up when I never said anything like that! I said the Shamans explode into black orbs that are not Void, which is a real world example of black orbs not equaling Void.

[sturdy arrow]

But the Shade Soul is void. It's silly to have black particles in a void-related situation and say they're not void.

The black particles are void, they're just not from the Shaman.

[foggy stratus]

My guy the Shaman is the one that explodes.

[sturdy arrow]

So are you trying to argue that the Shaman is void?

[foggy stratus]

No!

[sturdy arrow]

Then what?

[foggy stratus]

The Knight absorbs the Shaman and uses its power as a catalyst to upgrade its Vengful Sprit.

[sturdy arrow]

"Your essence has melded with the spell."
It's the Knight's void.

[foggy stratus]

Yes, its TK's Void that is what made the spell more powerful, but its not TK's Void that allowed for it to be upgraded. TK absorbed the Shaman to use its power to upgrade the spell.

The Shaman was a catalyst for the Spell to be upgraded.

[sturdy arrow]

The dialogue says "your essence". The Knight's essence is void. It's the Knight's void.

[foggy stratus]

What part of "TK absorbs the Shaman's power" do you not get. TK's essence melded with the spell within its body. TK absorbs the Shaman so it can use the Shaman's power as a catalyst to upgrade the Spell. Thats what happens.

[exotic pendant]

I don't think it's that much of a retcon considering it's still directly stated that shamans had a direct connection with the ancient civilization with soul totems

[foggy stratus]

TK's Void doesn't fucking teleport into the space the Shaman had occupied then instantly re-entered TK.

[sturdy arrow]

Yes, but the black particles being involved in a void-related situation obviously means the black particles are related to void.

So using this situation to say black particles aren't always void is stupid.

The simple solution is that the black particles are void and they are not from the shaman.

[foggy stratus]

Also, the Seeker Shaman dissolves into black particles when you take Seeker's soul.

Black particles≠Void.

[foggy stratus]

You claiming that Void teleports into a different space at the same time as something explodes is arguably more stupid.

Its the fucking Shaman that makes the particles.

Just use Occam's razor for the love of Talos.

[sturdy arrow]

Those particles are very obviously different. They drop downward instead of exploding outward.

It's like the black particles when Hornet breaks her cocoon

Not void. Just death.

[foggy stratus]

Its still black particles that arent Void. As well as the Shaman having been long dead presumably and drained dry of most of its Soul. It doesn't explode out because its basically a dried out corpse.

[foggy stratus]

Hornet's are like tiny spider things and aren't canon.

[sturdy arrow]

The particles in the White Palace are void.

They are surrounded by broken Kingsmoulds.

[foggy stratus]

Sure, fine, even if we do consider those particles made of Void, it doesn't mean that PK died of the stuff.

[sturdy arrow]

He might have, and considering void's symbolism of regret, it's likely.

[foggy stratus]

Expect that he shows none of the signs of a Void death.

And he actively would repel it due to being bright as shit.

Its more likely that due to his regrets, he just gave up on living.

[sturdy arrow]

I also want to add one more thing to my list of void deaths, the Radiance has her own regrets with being abandoned and needing to infect Hallownest just to survive. Her being swallowed by the void is thematically symbolic of that.

[foggy stratus]

She regrets nothing about infecting Hallownest. And she wouldn't regret being forgotten either.

[sturdy arrow]

She's a complex character.

[foggy stratus]

Shes a raging pissed off Higher Being hellbent on destroying Hallownest due to her creations abandoning her.

[paper mantle]

I think they wanted to do something similar to what the Buddhists did with Nirvana.

In this case, the AC simply wanted to be consumed by the void and thus cease to exist.

[foggy stratus]

Or possibly they also misunderstood what Void was in a similar way to the PK. Its possible.

[whole holly]

your interpretation makes sense given that soul and essence serve as power/value for power-hungry higher caste like Grand Mother Silk and Radiance

[paper mantle]

Mm...
You think the AC are higher cast?

[whole holly]

I think they are ancient caste

[paper mantle]

Oh, true

So why are you relating it to the HC?

[whole holly]

i am contrasting them, since void narratively opposes soul/essence

[paper mantle]

Aaaaah, that

[foggy stratus]

I feel narratively it opposes Essence and just straight up opposes Soul.

[whole holly]

Mostly yea

[celest oar]

fuck

[paper mantle]

Shade Lord: The Anarchist God

[foggy stratus]

No.

[celest oar]

sorry

[sick tinsel]

oil lord

[paper mantle]

XD

[exotic plank]

[tawny jolt]

radiance does something. End of lore.

[exotic plank]

[whole holly]

do you think that Shade Lord is similar to Steel Masters?

[exotic plank]

Steel people associates are capable of void powers so possibly

[paper mantle]

Similar in that they both presumably handle the void

[exotic plank]

[paper mantle]

And just in case, the canon name of that void entity is not Shade Lord, it's Void Given Focus

[whole holly]

yea i am aware, i feel forced to call it that

[craggy smelt]

jinn seems to think they are

it makes me wonder if the masters are some kind of Void entities

maybe Ancient Shades

since the ancients were also up to something with shades

[paper mantle]

||I'll soon make a rendering of what I think these Steel Masters will look like. ||

[paper mantle]

?

[paper mantle]

Yes

[random harbor]

Jinn - General - Listening after acquiring Void Heart

This It... A rare It. Has not seen many, so vulnerable, but triumphant. Makes Jinn feel a thing... surprise?
Jinn misjudged... The It is not inferior. Perhaps... different? Different to Jinn. More complete? Different... like masters?

@nostor_10. used /npcs merchants name: Jinn category: General dialogue: Listening after acquiring Void Heart

[craggy smelt]

like, if the ancients used the Void to make shades, like how the pale king used the Void to make shades (i.e. vessels, which are really just shades wearing bodies)

[whole holly]

what if void tendrils are remnants of them

[twin dragon]

https://tenor.com/view/ishowspeed-translate-gif-12052961640477791272

[craggy smelt]

then that'd be pretty neat, ig

[whole holly]

every theory that's not popular is automatically gibberish, i guess

[twin dragon]

Void is a manifestation of regret

[whole holly]

they are named void given form like shade in dream no more is void given form

[craggy smelt]

that's true

[whole holly]

which implies that it was indeed given a form

[twin dragon]

The form of tendrils

that's the shape the void takes

[craggy smelt]

i still like the idea of the masters being shades as well...
maybe the tendrils can be ancients who weren't able to hold themselves together and so dissolved into just feral extensions of the Void

[paper mantle]

[twin dragon]

What if the steel masters are just steel masters

[paper mantle]

No

[twin dragon]

🤤

[craggy smelt]

steel given form

[paper mantle]

The tendrils are void given form

[twin dragon]

what if they're lwk frauds

[whole holly]

that's what i said

[twin dragon]

No correlation w steel masters doe

[whole holly]

hollow knight hunter's journal says this : Fragments of void taking the shape of sharp, thrashing tendrils.

The bugs of Hallownest sometimes wondered whether there were other, older, stranger Kingdoms deep below them. What strange fancies they had. That's probably why they were always so distracted and easy to kill.

[craggy smelt]

my favorite entry

[twin dragon]

Yeah this is referring to the AC

[whole holly]

Steel Masters correlate with the Knight which in turn correlates with AC

[twin dragon]

How do they correlate with tk

They somewhat correlate with the void but we don't rlly know much aside from possible usage

[whole holly]

which ones? AC which is shown to also be related to void or steel masters who are said to be complete?

[twin dragon]

Steel masters

[whole holly]

jinn's statements and jiji's statements i guess

[twin dragon]

Which ones

[whole holly]

ones relating to void heart

[craggy smelt]

.

[whole holly]

thank you

[twin dragon]

Hm

Interesting

I mean it could imply the steel masters are a union of several beings

it would be neat

seeing that the steel society is all about practicality

[craggy smelt]

I also like this line

...A King, the tiny It becomes. Jinn knows that mark, but cannot bow.
Jinn's masters are other... minds other... Not order. Not order, they seek.
'Minds other' is a pretty interesting line

(this is a reaction to the King's Brand)

[twin dragon]

They don't seek order

huh

that is quite a statement

What if the steel masters just aren't steel at all

They hold this entire industry but they aren't really the same thing

[craggy smelt]

I think it refers to how the steel masters are able to threaten even the pale beings
whatever the steels want, it's not the order of pale kingdoms

[twin dragon]

Idk

I dont rlly find that to be the case

Jinn won't bow to the king's brand because she's locked into servitude with the masters

and the masters dont exactly seek order

[craggy smelt]

that's what I mean

PK is all about order

pale beings generally seem to seek dominion

[twin dragon]

Well its not threatening

she's pointing out differences

[whole holly]

they are outside of Pale Being's jurisdiction

[craggy smelt]

later Zi mentions that the 'higher caste' (pale beings) must not go against the masters or face Compression

[twin dragon]

Where

is it the higher line again

[craggy smelt]

so not threaten in the sense that they are actively attacking pale beings
but that they are not beholden to pale beings

[craggy smelt]

when you reject Zi's wish

Pale It... You would reject the role? Are you not tamed, bound, by Masters?... You would know... obedience is essential.
Recall, the fate of those who defy... Even you higher... Especially you higher...
...Compression... We have suffered it. We would never wish it upon another.

[whole holly]

also they demand complete submission, and their punishments are nightmarish.

[craggy smelt]

i've taken to thinking of them as something like arbitrators

they police use of the Void

they monitor pale beings

they can keep both forces in check

[twin dragon]

It could be implying those of higher mind to resist

[craggy smelt]

white, black, and grey

[twin dragon]

But ig it referring to the higher caste makes sense

that just hypes em up

[craggy smelt]

hell yeah

who are these fucking guys

[whole holly]

i think they are inorganic species who feel like organic life including higher beings are below them, they are manufactured with precision and try to gather necessary resources from other civilizations.

kind of like Diamond Caste in Steven Universe, they also require natural resources

[twin dragon]

Can't be the case

jinn refers to the masters as different

[whole holly]

Team Cherry is probably inspired by them

[whole holly]

more complete doesn't mean organic, sure they may be different than Jinn but inorganic nature is still plausible

[twin dragon]

Jinn finds them more complete and different

idk what this could imply

lets js wait

[craggy smelt]

steeLC

it's happening

[twin dragon]

it better be happening else im sliming tc

[whole holly]

personally i think they are still inorganic, Cogwork Bugs, Servitors, Father of the Flame and Eva are inorganic but all of then are different

i hope Steel masters end up looking different and still inorganic

if we get City of Steel DLC i will be overjoyed

[craggy smelt]

I wonder if the steel bugs are more like constructs with cogs and parts, or if it's more like liquid/living metal

[whole holly]

which ones steel children or steel masters?

[craggy smelt]

both, like the whole steel society aesthetic

will their city be industrial, or more elegant and ornamental with living metal (like the growstone)

[whole holly]

i think they will about precision, perfection and that will reflect on aesthetic even if they go with elegant or industrial part, literally like Diamond Caste Aesthetic in Steven Universe but Grey/Steel

[craggy smelt]

zi referred to a 'home spear', i think that's the city
puts me in mind of like a shiny metal spear tip
so i think the place will be pointy

[whole holly]

i am liking lot of interpretations out there

i want them to be more abstract than Grand Mother Silk is, i am disappointed that her design isn't more abstract why is she literal spider woman that's made of silk

i get loom/leg thing and womb/cocoon thing and hair/silk thing but upper body needs to be more abstract in aesthetic, i loved radiance's design it wasn't trying to be sun too literally but still got point across!

personally i assume Steel Faction will be just as important as Godseekers because they both got Game Modes related to them

[twin dragon]

Doesnt look that hollowknight is

[twin dragon]

Shes an upgrade to the radiance

[whole holly]

i disagree

[twin dragon]

The radiance is literally a moth kinda

gms barely looks like a bug

and kinda conveys the point that she's a beast

[whole holly]

she doesn't look like silk-beast either, she looks like spider-lady

[twin dragon]

Kinda the point ish

And she does look and act in a more primitive way compared to the other hbs

[whole holly]

less abstract though

[twin dragon]

Imo it is quite abstract

Like you can't quite make out what the hell is she

[twin dragon]

This is too humanoid and maybe overdone imo

[whole holly]

i know, i agree but lot of bugs like seth are so

[whole holly]

it is obvious

[paper mantle]

I meant that the void itself takes that form

[whole holly]

my interpretation is plausible

[twin dragon]

I mean she vaguely looks like a spider and humanoid at the same time

thats as close as you get

[paper mantle]

Is wonderful!

[whole holly]

nothing like spider, except in one scene

[twin dragon]

Fym

the abdomen and overall body look

[whole holly]

this is only time she looks vaguely like spider

[twin dragon]

You can see the spider-shaped body ish at any moment

imo she's one of the better HB designs along with the big wyrm

[whole holly]

i disagree with your opinion

[twin dragon]

Well i agree with my opinion

[whole holly]

you can do that

[paper mantle]

Void Given Focus in negative

[whole holly]

lol

[sinful nimbus]

@stray grove

[twin dragon]

who did bro summon

[whole holly]

Void Given Focus does have multiple pairs of eyes and multiple limbs

[whole holly]

spider limbs are more accurate here abdomen too, lol

[spark valve]

the spirit of ash

[paper mantle]

I mean color...

-_-

[whole holly]

color is obviously inverted that's obvious, i just added my opinion, nostos

[paper mantle]

Plus: both attack with scratches

[whole holly]

truth nuke

[twin dragon]

ts doesnt look too much like a spider aside from the limbs lmfao

[whole holly]

Grand Mother Silk has fingers...

[twin dragon]

Yeah i said she vaguely resembles a spider

that's kinda the point she's not meant to look like anything too much

[whole holly]

Radiance is better designed, even Nightmare Heart, Grand Mother Silk is worst designed Higher Being imo

[twin dragon]

???

Huge disagree on this wtf are you saying

[whole holly]

my opinion?

[sinful nimbus]

truth nuke

[twin dragon]

Lwk the only issue i have with gms is her abdomen

Nightmare heart is also neat ngl

Its 2 fucking short

Remove the stick and it looks akward

[sinful nimbus]

abdomen is the biggest offender imo but her being diet Radiance kinda sucks as well

[twin dragon]

She doesn't quite look like radiance aside from her presentation

like the design itself

Also she mogs rad idk why we can't have direct ups to existing stuff

[whole holly]

it should at least look more obviously like yarn/loom/abdomen or whatever them were going for

[sinful nimbus]

The legs are pretty similar as is the general concept

Rad looks less goofy imo

[stray grove]

https://tenor.com/view/recite-deep-magic-witch-i-was-there-it-was-written-gif-15820897709462081617

[twin dragon]

She's a bit basic

Imo

She works just fine

[sinful nimbus]

that's true

The sun imagery was pretty neat though

[twin dragon]

what kinda throws me off is that she's too static

[whole holly]

true

[stray grove]

GMS’ design is fine stop hating

[sinful nimbus]

Bro its ugly

Part of it is the arena being ugly too

[whole holly]

compare it to other higher beings

[twin dragon]

general concept-wise i don't think that's true, they just reused the presentation but Beast god and the aura farming sun god don't share too much

[twin dragon]

Oh yeah we got

a slug

[sinful nimbus]

But you can't tell me the rock chucking attack is good design

[whole holly]

grand mother silk can barely compare

[twin dragon]

The worst offender being the pale king's bug form

[twin dragon]

It is

very reactable

the only bad thing is that she can stray off range but the attack doesnt last too long

[whole holly]

leave her alone, she is giant slug, she looks great enough, for role she fits her design fits it better

[sinful nimbus]

this boss is soooo pretty 😍

[twin dragon]

A stitched up heart

we have also

a root

that's white

[sinful nimbus]

The hair and head are good

[twin dragon]

We also have uhh

[twin dragon]

Bugs are part of the design apparently

[whole holly]

face sucks though, i feel like it should mostly be covered or something

[twin dragon]

No she's just a slug

Its alright but she's just a slug

[twin dragon]

What face

[sinful nimbus]

I think the humanoid face looks neat

[whole holly]

black area near her hair?

[sinful nimbus]

But like this design looks fanmade

[whole holly]

i don't really care how it is shaped

[twin dragon]

Her not having an expression is also cool

like

[whole holly]

lol

[twin dragon]

i can imagine a lot of stuff

that can be extracted from that

[sinful nimbus]

No one would bat an eye if this was like a bad AnyRad inspired fight

[twin dragon]

She doesn't quite see but sense through the threads

[sinful nimbus]

Or a fake puppetmaster concept art

[twin dragon]

That's just TC's art direction changing in general

[whole holly]

apparently these are for cookie run kingdom and middle is what Grand Mother Silk should have been!

[twin dragon]

Mossgrub mogs most of the designs

[sinful nimbus]

No there's actually something about it that looks fanmade

[stray grove]

Star you’re actually just nitpicking bruh

She looks fine cut it out

Bad bit

[sinful nimbus]

Its not a nitpick bro her being ugly was my first thought when fighting her

[twin dragon]

"It looks fanmade" buddy at least she can fucking move

💔

[whole holly]

she is so underwhelming

[stray grove]

Maybe you wanted her to be ugly

[twin dragon]

Radiance is T-posing her entire fight

otherwise the design is fine

her halo kinda carries

[whole holly]

yea that's true, GMS's crown looks good too but not as good as AbsRad's

[sinful nimbus]

this arena mogs so hard

[twin dragon]

Why are you complaining about abstractiviness or wtv when the first hk higher beings had super obvious inspos

[sinful nimbus]

cradle ugly asf

[whole holly]

i would have loved it if they leaned on this like Radiance fight leaned on Sun

[twin dragon]

Cradle is good but you don't see the good part

[twin dragon]

The platforms are ugly af

[sinful nimbus]

This is true but I didn't notice it until I saw the godhome ones

[twin dragon]

Godhome arena's just a downgrade

kinda

the pillars are neat

in the background

[sinful nimbus]

It is but the platforms look a bit nicer

[twin dragon]

tiktik mogs

[whole holly]

main antagonists of the game like grand mother silk and radiance need to have otherworldly design, that's not the case for Unn, Nightmare Heart does abide by that rule but Grand Mother Silk fails in my opinion

[twin dragon]

Gms feels much more alien than radiance im sorry

Radiance has the whole sun theming but the design itself is very deductible

Like you know what you're seeing

[whole holly]

she doesn't fit bug world as much

[twin dragon]

And i like that

[whole holly]

these are fan designs and i like pre-rebellion GMS better than Game's design

[twin dragon]

Ts looks too overdone for hollow knight

complaining about simplicity but then glazing radiance

💔

Pre rebellion gms just needs a larger abdomen and free hands

[whole holly]

simplicity? what? when did i complain about simplicity

[whole holly]

i disagree

let's agree to disagree because this will never end

[twin dragon]

Wtv you say

[whole holly]

so i have lore question, it isn't kind of some deep question, but does the Weavers putting Grand Mother Silk to sleep count as elder abuse?

[whole holly]

it's good for this channel

[modest trail]

why is the PK not in the red memory, does Hornet hate her dad?

[craggy smelt]

yes

[frosty pelican]

yo guys

i finally did it

112% in hollow knight

[warm root]

Congrats man

[foggy stratus]

If not hate, really dislike.

Akin to someone who doesnt really understand the story of Hollow Knight and the actions the PK did, she misinterpretes what he has done as evil

[blissful harbor]

late but i love this about her

she stands out so much being humanoid in a bug world, i honestly think it’d be cooler if HBs in general were more like that

really makes them feel otherworldly

[whole holly]

That’s honestly something I can understand

[blissful harbor]

also, if you take her multiple arms, put her on like an all fours kinda stance, you’d have a weird looking spider with a scorpion like tail
i think her design works out

[whole holly]

That’s your opinion

[blissful harbor]

hence the “i think”

[limpid summit]

I know

[craggy smelt]

i like her design, though i found it very jarring when i first fought her since she was so humanoid

made her seem pretty freaky, which if anything added to the experience

like 'aaaah, wtf is this'

[opal cliff]

i wish i had hair like hers

[sinful nimbus]

i wish my hair could create life 😔

[foggy fractal]

be careful of what you wish for

they might rebel against you you never know

[sinful nimbus]

I would be different

My child would think me uncaring, unrepentant even, but such is the cost of my wish:
strength... in mind, in care, in claw... strength enough that they may live to see a world better than our own, or to craft a world as they desire

[gentle aspen]

shut up, mate

[sinful nimbus]

I don't see anything in the rules saying that you can't use child abuse to make your daughter stronger

[spark valve]

nurture is fostering weakness

[foggy stratus]

We all went to hell once we stopped dunking children into rivers by their ankles to make their skin indestructible. Smh.

[eternal sigil]

Not sure if it is hate so much as profound bitterness, if that is a distinct thing

it's one thing to do monstrous things in the name of preserving your realm at the cost of family, it's another thing entirely if that doesn't even work

unrelated, but on the topic of the King

I feel like Silksong's contextualization of the Void helps explain the King's end

In HK, Jiji (and the Hunter, I think) vaguely describe the shades as "regrets"

[foggy stratus]

The Hunter just muses about death in his Shade journal entry.

[eternal sigil]

similarly, Silksong builds upon this link; Garmond, who throughout the game is shown to be primarily driven by his regrets at what happened to his home in the Haunting, succumbs to the Void and is eventually Lost to the stuff

[foggy stratus]

Its not that he regrets it, its that he wants what's basically revenge.

Can you even regret something outside of your control?

[eternal sigil]

People noted for a while that PK's throne room has void motes in it and implicated it in his death, despite no obvious other signs of it on the premises (loose Void monsters, etc)

yes there are Kingsmoulds and stuff but none in or near his chambers

I think it is possible the implication is that regret over his plans and the failed throw of the dice, and abandoning Hallownest in the end, killed him

[foggy stratus]

Void had no part in PK's death. He sorta just gave up on living after everything.

[foggy fractal]

Can void even kill PK, like even if he allowed it to could it

something something pale aura

[cosmic briar]

Then why are there void leaking out when you hit him

[eternal sigil]

that is what I am saying

[foggy stratus]

I mean if he spotted glowing then maybe yeah. But not if his glow is something that can't be toggled off.

[foggy stratus]

There isnt.

[eternal sigil]

If Void is made of regrets, it might be there less because of a literal case of the stuff betraying him, rather that it's a sign of the end that took him

[cosmic briar]

Also the Silksong entry for the wing mold

[foggy stratus]

Void isn't made of regrets.

[blissful harbor]

The only means with which our family has to resist the void

paraphrasing but yk

[foggy fractal]

[foggy stratus]

A stellar case of WL just being plain wrong

[blissful harbor]

oh god are we falling back to WL is senile

[foggy stratus]

Hornet hates everything PK has ever done in the history of ever

[cosmic briar]

But it’s true

[spark valve]

it literally isn't true it's just nonsense

[foggy stratus]

In general? No, probably not. In this case in particular? Yup.

[cosmic briar]

Like he tried and died

[foggy stratus]

He didnt die to Void.

[cosmic briar]

He did

[foggy stratus]

Then why does he show no signs of it.

[eternal sigil]

bruh

[sinful nimbus]

Multiple SS void deaths don't have visible signs

Its either sharpe or the void be fr

[eternal sigil]

WL is maybe the best demonstration of Higher Being power seen actively in the game, beyond just "really strong in combat"

[sinful nimbus]

Probably sharpe

[eternal sigil]

I don't think she has gone daft

[cosmic briar]

There are bodies around him

[eternal sigil]

and even if that is so by the time of HK, the version in Red Memory is centuries or millennia less aged and thus assuredly not

[foggy stratus]

But his body doesn't show a single sign of a Void death.

[foggy stratus]

Which ones?

[blissful harbor]

ok but actually

Witness, the first light. The only means we possess to resist that void with which our family is forever linked.

unless you decide to just say WL is bullshitting here, or come up with some explanation for the flowers, she is straight up saying PK’s light wouldn’t have been enough chat

or PK had an everbloom on him in HK

[foggy fractal]

I mean

[blissful harbor]

Pk is the everbloom

[foggy stratus]

A few lumaflies and a reflecting dish was enough to pacify a lake.

[foggy fractal]

Ze'mer is a thing

[spark valve]

the lighthouse

[foggy fractal]

also yeah the lighthouse works

[foggy stratus]

Shes being hyperbolic as shit.

[cosmic briar]

Void is shown to kill over time

[spark valve]

she's clearly not correct about the flower being the only thing that can suppress void if you try to read it that way she's objectively just a moron

[sinful nimbus]

silksong map website doesn't have act 3 on it smh

[blissful harbor]

lumaflies are interesting already due to silkflies imo, could be pure soul
which like the everbloom is definitely soul related

[cosmic briar]

Case one act 3 ending

[foggy fractal]

unless

[sinful nimbus]

lighthouse has never made sense its best to ignore it

[foggy stratus]

No.

[blissful harbor]

byways the answer is the lumaflies were fed a diet of everbloom

cope

[cosmic briar]

💀

[foggy stratus]

PK was fed a diet of Everbloom.

Cope.

[sinful nimbus]

why tf did PK did a lighthouse if his light suppresses void

[blissful harbor]

i said earlier he is an everbloom

[foggy stratus]

He can't be there constantly.

[sinful nimbus]

so

[cosmic briar]

Yeah

[sinful nimbus]

why did it need to be suppressed constantly

[blissful harbor]

they are called the first light
PK is a light
there is an origin story in the somewhere

[sinful nimbus]

why is there a bug who needs to overlook it

ts makes no sense

[blissful harbor]

the bug made no sense

[cosmic briar]

Act 3 shows why

[spark valve]

no it doesn't lol

[foggy stratus]

PK is a paranoid fuck.

[foggy fractal]

act 3 doesn't show shit

[blissful harbor]

void only did that cause of the shamans, act 3 wouldn’t have happened

[sinful nimbus]

Act 3 is a result of the void melding with the silk threads

Which didn't exist in Hallownest

[sinful nimbus]

Why was he paranoid of a substance he studied deeply and would've known is of no harm

[foggy fractal]

always blame it on GMS

[cosmic briar]

That were mainly destroyed

[spark valve]

so retainers can gather the stuff who cares

[sinful nimbus]

I cares

[cosmic briar]

You did not just say that

[foggy stratus]

Why would he train a Vessel to be skilled in combat if its going to be behind seals that are supposed to be unbreakable.

[sinful nimbus]

Was he sending retainers to get mauled my gloombeasts

[spark valve]

care about a better game 💔

[spark valve]

he had those cleared out duh

[sinful nimbus]

redundancies are safety measures

[sinful nimbus]

I'm playing MIO rn bro

[blissful harbor]

i mean
Rads creations, probably number one suspects
are capable of traversing the dream realm

[foggy stratus]

Which is what the Lighthouse would have been.

[sinful nimbus]

safety measure for what

Void doesn't do nothing bro

A potential intruder would do something

[cosmic briar]

He killed like 500k kids

[blissful harbor]

i feel like people blow his paranoia out of proportion

[sinful nimbus]

He's preparing for something actually dangerous and feasible to happen

[spark valve]

they do yes

[cosmic briar]

The god of gods is the shade lord who lives in the void

[foggy stratus]

Who didnt exist until way after his death.

[spark valve]

alternate timeline where markoth remembered rad and killed the dreamers and thk to break her out

[sinful nimbus]

Shade Lord is the knight with void heart

[foggy fractal]

also shade lord is lowkey chill

[blissful harbor]

feasible
he would’ve died to HK but genuinely
a wayward moth could’ve broke the seals

[sinful nimbus]

Also a lighthouse ain't stopping bro

[foggy fractal]

also yeah

no one can stop shade lord 😭

its wraps

[cosmic briar]

Ghost is dead

In Silksong

[sinful nimbus]

What

[spark valve]

literally shows up in sotv but ok

[sinful nimbus]

spoilers 🥀

[spark valve]

sloplers

[blissful harbor]

reason why hornet is alive actually

[foggy fractal]

silkgem!

[spark valve]

that's called monster hunter rise: sunbreak

[cosmic briar]

The physical form is known as alive. The night was his physical form in the Canon ending

Knight

[sinful nimbus]

silkgem (monster hunter rise) and spider gem (mio)

[lapis creek]

bro hallucinated a better story

[foggy stratus]

With Void Heart TK no longer needs a shell to exist as its will has effectively become the Void's will.

[sinful nimbus]

what is songgem

hunting horn?

[spark valve]

prahlow

[lapis creek]

you should play an even better game

wait a minute

[sinful nimbus]

iron bramble isn't out sadly

[spark valve]

js play rusted moss sis

[sinful nimbus]

I will but it doesn't look as pretty

[spark valve]

it's even on sale

[cosmic briar]

The knight was never a pure vessel. It was messed up. It was nothing that the pale king wanted it was a disappointment in his standards and then this thing somehow goes on to beat the radiance in its prime

[sinful nimbus]

is it actually good

[spark valve]

idk

[sinful nimbus]

holy larp

[lapis creek]

you should play outer wilds echoes of the eye i hear it's really good

[sinful nimbus]

woah play blue prince got it

[spark valve]

you can't be like hey iron bramble looks peak and then have a game that's the predecessor which you haven't played hholy larp

[cosmic briar]

Is not larp

[foggy stratus]

Why tf would Purity, a quality only relegated to keeping Radiance sealed, effect the Vessel's strength?

[sinful nimbus]

I didn't claim to be a fan of twin stick shooter metroidvanias did I

[cosmic briar]

I don’t know that’s what I’m trying to find out right now

I still confused on how that happened

[spark valve]

metroids suck anyways

[foggy stratus]

Purity doesnt matter in terms of Void Heart.

[spark valve]

I should play rusted moss

[foggy stratus]

A Pure Vessel wouldn't be any stronger than a non-Pure Vessel.

[spark valve]

maybe closer to iron bramble release so I can play both

[sinful nimbus]

it looks like actually kinda unique for the genre

silksong take notes

[spark valve]

you haven't even finished pop

[sinful nimbus]

larp larp larp sahur

[foggy stratus]

When I'm in a 'hate your own game' competition and my opponent is a Silksong player:

[sinful nimbus]

such is the fate of all fanbases

[foggy stratus]

Hate is the reason this heart still beats.

Wait...

Hate for their light. Hate for their pins. For their waste poured thick and endless. Fill your hearts with hate, for power has now been claimed, and with it we shall punish.

[sinful nimbus]

Do I almost feel hateful

[spark valve]

Hate for their retcons. Hate for their slabfly entries. For their half assed callbacks poured in your face and pointless. Fill your shells with hate, for slop has now been scribed, and with it we shall mald.

[sinful nimbus]

Groal speech is lowk tuff

[foggy fractal]

Do I almost feel groalful

[sinful nimbus]

Bilewater and Slab lore ♥️

[foggy stratus]

Hate for their Silk. Hate for their Song. Hate for their Soul poured wispy and endless. Fill your shells with Void, for Essence as now been claimed, and with it we shall Lifeblood.

[foggy fractal]

you can't hate if you don't love first

[foggy stratus]

Tell that to my politicians.

[foggy fractal]

because it feels all the worse

💔

maybe sos will ❤️‍🩹

[sturdy arrow]

Don't get your hopes up.

[foggy fractal]

I mean I'm sure I'll enjoy it anyways

but hoo boy based on their trackrecord some lore is about to get trashed

[sinful nimbus]

Its okay to like slop ❤️

[foggy fractal]

its fine though I don't play these games for the lore

I'm not here to read

😊

[sturdy arrow]

Play it for the seventeen fetch quests.

[foggy fractal]

go my 1000 mandatory "help the town" quests!

[spark valve]

jarvis get the rosary chart

[sinful nimbus]

why does mio's map suck

i'm in metro and i'm not connected to the spine no one gaf give me the map 🥀

[foggy fractal]

its not as bad on repeated playthroughs tbh but first timers have it rough

ig I did have the help of selling silk eaters on steel soul though

[jade terrace]

question about the lore considering the psalm cylinder with conductor mizello's last surgery on it, did pharloom have anesthetics?

[spark valve]

probably not

[foggy fractal]

I doubt it

[jade terrace]

and thats what i thought

[foggy fractal]

what are these healing supplies anyways

[frank dove]

Balms

They are for the wounded

Super balmy

[foggy fractal]

🤔

[crystal marsh]

???

[frank dove]

Right is avocado

Left is guava

[foggy fractal]

googled balm and that's what I got in images 🤔

[craggy smelt]

yep, that's pretty balmy alr

[light verge]

the bugs of the citadel have VERY dry lips

I bet groal uses a lot of balm

dudes got lips for days

[foggy fractal]

yeah no shit you can literally see that stuff

see right there!

[mighty parcel]

Why is Sinner’s Road called that?

[light verge]

top 2 greasiest hollow knight characters

[foggy fractal]

whos 1

[mighty parcel]

Ass Jim

[foggy fractal]

Ogrim?

hm

maybe Broodmother is up there

[light verge]

Ogrim def ain’t greasy

I was thinking like Unn

[foggy fractal]

💔 out greased by Unn Groal really is a fraud

[light verge]

Or Poggy Thorax actually works better

he literally calls himself greasy

[foggy fractal]

hes a spirit though

can spirits be greasy

[mighty parcel]

Ectoplasm

[light verge]

greasy in spirit and body!

[foggy fractal]

🙂‍↕️

[edgy nebula]

likely the road sinners used to get to the citadel without being judged i think

could also be called that because it’s dirty and gross

[neat spade]

Please... don't post that thing here ;-;

[lunar wing]

groal the handsome

[dire lynx]

i really dont get where this idea comes from, since the only entry to the organ is behind a rock wall and not accessable to bugs until hornet opens the way

theres also no way anyone did it before since phantom would kill them

[stray knot]

why did that last silk soar out of the abyss seem to do so much damage to grand mother silk? it couldnt have used THAT much silk right?

[craggy smelt]

really seems like she gave the last of the silk she had to help Hornet escape

she was running low as it was, keeping the Void at bay

[candid linden]

does hornet become power hungry in the normal ending

[void patrol]

Aka bad ending where she absorbs gms?
I mean kinda, she just becomes like gms but 10x more powerfull

[cinder storm]

What if the entirety of greymoor looked like whisp ticket

[void patrol]

Nope

[robust wagon]

What if the sky was green

[cinder storm]

"thank you greymoor"
"What"
"because you're..grey, and moor"

[low oracle]

Basically:
-the silk had to be enough to:
•get Hornet and Lace out of the abyss to the surface (lowest known point to highest known point in the entire game), hence it has to be powerful and long-lasting
•heal/repare Lace
-the void already begun absorbing her form from the start of Act3, GMS held through pretty good

It may also be that she passed some of herself onto/into Lace to make her stronger or something along those lines. Since they're both of silk, it should technically be possible for GMS to make Lace be capable of sustaining herself (the way GMS could, being the primary source of silk).

[dire lynx]

it most likley did before being cleared for agriculture

[cinder storm]

Yeah but how did the culy begin

Or was it bigger

[dire lynx]

the cult?

[cinder storm]

The fire people

Witches idk

[dire lynx]

they started their cult after finding the wisps

probably something to do with burning away silk

[cinder storm]

Id prefer to work in greymoor rather than the underworks

The area next to the marrow works toon (i forgot the name)

[dire lynx]

deep docks

[cinder storm]

Yeah

I bet it's not that hot

If pilgrims can survive there

Anything can

And they get a pretty good pay too

[cinder storm]

Unpure bugs

[low oracle]

I think Deep Docks prolly has the best pay. Working conditions are dangerous, but you aren't fed Muckroaches or not at all. And you have access to actually good equipment, a Sauna for resting and more.
Pre-haunting it's the best place of work outside the Citadel. Inside, it'd prolly be the High Hall bugs that take care of finances (not the army though).

[sick tinsel]

high halls feels like a government building ngl

and about the deepdocks thing i agree

[low oracle]

Well it is. When the Conductors were given rule from the Weavers, they were basically the government of the citadel (though the Weavers were still "gods", the conductors were more like the medieval ages corrupt priests). Most of the Citadel has riches drawn from the extreme exploitation of the Deep Docks, Greymoor (+Sinner's Road), and especially the Underworks. The High Halls were the next level of the wealthy, where the Conductor in charge has their own private army.

[royal plinth]

do u knoww that ummmmmmmm

[sick tinsel]

corruption at its peak, while the poor are working in harsh conditions underground, the rich and wealthy stay at luxery in thier great towers

pharloom neds democracy

[paper mantle]

Ok, what is the Higher Cast?

I need a definition

[whole holly]

there is none

[low oracle]

Conductors? Like, the ones in charge you mean?

[whole holly]

it is used to mean Caste that is above rest of the working caste, it just means Ruling Caste

[feral ice]

The fire cult is crazy

[random harbor]

Hall of Gods: Soul Master

Unlocked:
Covetous god of soul

Locked:
Immortal, I rule the Sanctum

@iraj_04624 used /godhome category: Hall of Gods - Top row name: Soul Master

[whole holly]

troupe or burning bugs?

[feral ice]

The wisps

[near citrus]

I wish we had more about the wisp thicket and it's strange residents. I feel we know so little about who exactly they are and what they're doing

like, almost every creature/area has lore directly linked to the citadel or its impact, but wisp thicket seemed isolated to me. No haunting, no silk, but why? It's directly under the underworks, how is it not haunted or in some way used?

Or did I miss something? Does anyone know more

[onyx pawn]

Wasn't that bc they burn the silk like the lantern tool?

[near citrus]

Ah. Interesting. And because that worked they made it their religion/cult? Or did they have that cult before and it happened to shield them against gms?

[onyx pawn]

I prefer thinking the first

[near citrus]

Oh! Could it be that the bug that falls out the father of flame's core was the first to suggest the silk-burning? And they thanked him by making it their "leader" and built the construction around it?

[onyx pawn]

I used to think that that bug got put there because they're old or something, and the burning bugs believed that it would keep him alive or something.
-# Not canon, just my thoughts

[lyric rose]

Is this a Wyrm?

[onyx pawn]

I hope and suppose so.

[lyric rose]

I don’t know what else could explain Pharloom’s bugs having higher thought

Because Gramma Silk seems ideologically opposed to higher thought (she legit just wants people to worship her mindlessly)

This could have been the progenitor of Pharloom as a land, giving intelligence to the various factions present before Silk’s arrival

[twin dragon]

No its not a wyrm

[low oracle]

Ummmm:
-Pilgrims come from out of Pharloom, so that explanation is inherently flawed
-the Skarr near identically match the Mantises, no higher being required for both of them, as well as them not speaking the language of most bugs (though we have no clue how language even works, and Karmelita can talk as an exception)
-same applies for the Crawbugs, Stilkin, Pintresses, Karaka, Verdania(ns), Shellwood (though they seemingly aren't sapient)

[twin dragon]

If it was a wyrm, i don't think anything could explain its death pre-gms as they're extremely powerful and where's the ash?

Also it's way smaller

[foggy fractal]

yeah its nowhere near long enough

bardoon says he's already too small and hes longer than this guy
unless you tell me that the inside isn't the full creature

[twin dragon]

It straight up doesnt look like one

[low oracle]

GMS didn't oppose sapient though either. She literally ascended the Weavers similarly to how PK did with the majority of Hallownest's bugs. Even further, she ascended them in such a way that they attained "godlike" powers from her, powers far beyond a common bug to harness.

[twin dragon]

Tbf this was done exclusively for her own toys

[foggy fractal]

tbf we don't have any other wyrms besides pk so its not impossible that other wyrms looked different
unless theres some wyrm dialogue that I'm not remembering

[low oracle]

It isn't out of the question for wyrms to be the origin of each and every kingdom, but this here is the most pulled from the ass explanation possible, I'm sorry. Especially just because there's a massive bug (or other kind of creature I guess). Team Cherry has a thing with drawing gigantic fossils and corpses, much better explainable by artistic design that some deeper lore reason.

[twin dragon]

the queen's garden dead beast mogs that in size

[twin dragon]

(there's a whole ass area that is literally just giant beast remains)

The marrow is artistic peak ngl

tc's

[low oracle]

We have Blackwyrm, as a name, not even confirmed to be a wyrm or a singular creature. We do know though that wyrms create kingdoms, so it's easiest to theorize every kingdom has wyrm origin. Not to say every sapient bug requires a wyrm though.

[low oracle]

Marrow is the bones from the predessecing (idk how to spell this, mb) pilgrims, at least partially, according to dialogue.

Obviously also other creatures and statues.

[twin dragon]

Well uh

you cant explain the big ass vertebrae with that

honestly that makes it better

[foggy fractal]

oh yeah speaking of
isn't bone bottom made out of a giant corpse too, well in the background that is
idk how it is in the game rn but its easier to see it with some earlier footage where its not blurred as much

[lyric rose]

The bones are still there

[low oracle]

In the background of the Fourth Chorus arena there is also a huge spine on the right side, I don't have a pic though.

[sinful nimbus]

wyrm downscale why are the dragons not the biggest dudes around

[low oracle]

There isn't the Pius Isamor pilgrim statue already.

[twin dragon]

hold on, do bugs have fucking bones?

like regular ass bugs

[craggy smelt]

oh yeah, they got bones

[twin dragon]

It could be very well lined up giant corpses

[low oracle]

Don't they have exoskeletons instead (in real life)?

[twin dragon]

brother

In the verse

😭

[low oracle]

In the verse, yes.

They also have blood and other bodily fluids.

[craggy smelt]

oh in meatspace

yeah, just the shell

[sinful nimbus]

they have shells but we see multiple bugs with bones so it could be the average joe too

[sinful nimbus]

gruz mother skeleton jumpscare

[low oracle]

Some in-verse definitions:

Shell—body, shell or armor

Mask—head, mask, organically attached mask

[onyx pawn]

And I feel the urge to explain why some bugs explode when defeated:
They got high pressure in their body, and when the shell gets pierced, well, a small explosion happens.

[twin dragon]

iselda?

where is this

[sinful nimbus]

mato

[twin dragon]

oh

makes sense yeah

[low oracle]

Or they just gut some volatile matter/contained liquid bursting out.

[craggy smelt]

dem bones

[twin dragon]

I mean

they're either infected or are js like that ig

like how dead whales explode irl due to gas fillup

[low oracle]

The grounded bug in Bilewater uses it as a defense mechanism I think.

A stupid one at that.

[craggy smelt]

eh

there's similar ones irl

[onyx pawn]

The most visible example is probably Groal or hk ||Brooding Mawlek||

[craggy smelt]

obviously it doesn't work for the individual

but it disincentives predators of the species as a whole

[low oracle]

Brooding Mawlek falls to pieces though, not with an actual explosion. And since it was infected, there's the volatile explanation anyway.

[onyx pawn]

Okay, what about Skull Tyrant

Mb, it's only the skull

[low oracle]

Looks like it's mostly muscle.

The Skull is another creature's.

[onyx pawn]

Great Conchfly?

[twin dragon]

Conchfly's shell is likely coral growth

or its red because it helps them camouflate

[low oracle]

Bell Beast, Groms and the larger bugs in the sand area all seem to have an exoskeleton. Bell Beast also has the same common ancestor, likely.

[twin dragon]

Yeah

[onyx pawn]

And they remind me of hk ||dirtcarvers, those deepnest bugs||

[low oracle]

The coral growth seems like the work of a Higher Being actually. I mean, bugs partially coral, which also makes them stronger seems unnatural on a scale of so many different creatures.

The silvery-metal ones? Idk.

We at least know that Garpedes and the Silksong small Garpede thing are related.

Aspids and Squits are similar too.

[near jasper]

And the putrified ducts squit

[twin dragon]

god forbid something grows

[idle mesa]

bugs partially carol

[twin dragon]

Do we?

[low oracle]

What is the mosquito in Greenpath called again? Is there a naming relation to the Squits?

[twin dragon]

I dont think its that far fetched but eh

[idle mesa]

dont think its stated

[low oracle]

Yes. I forgot where though, but yes.

[twin dragon]

Coral is js coral and its very crusty

[idle mesa]

besides they differ in bodyshape

[twin dragon]

Its hard yeah

[near jasper]

I think those are the squits my guy

[idle mesa]

if you look at the 2 they have very apparent differences

[twin dragon]

if the conchflies had stone shells they would likely dig as efficiently

[low oracle]

So the same species as in Silksong, with regional differences apparently?

[idle mesa]

is it

[near jasper]

Or cancer from existing near bilewater

[idle mesa]

at least by my thought process

if they existed in both kingdoms

theyd have to be common in the universe

[low oracle]

Stones would be heavier, hard to grow back as it ain't organic, overall worse. Coral is literally organical armor.

[idle mesa]

not in one area per kingdom

it might js be a coincidence

[twin dragon]

Ok that is something very naturally feasible idk whats your point

[onyx pawn]

Is it only me, or the queen's gardens and bilewater soundtracks are a bit similar? Both got a . • ' . • ' . •' part.

[low oracle]

Nah, Team Cherry paid(payed?) attention to naming. The did Voltvyrm for example, and Muckmaggots, to prevent confusion.

[idle mesa]

looks like it only applies to things that would cause a big retcon

[low oracle]

Coral is very strong, which would be interesting if it was just a plant without higher power tied to it.

[idle mesa]

like seeing it called voltwyrm

[lyric rose]

squit

[idle mesa]

would be quite

shocking

[idle mesa]

also we havent seen any non ductified spitter dudes

[low oracle]

Also because HK gives words new meanings. Like Weaver being a term for a disciple of GMS.

[lyric rose]

Muck is to maggots as f*ck is to-

[twin dragon]

Not rlly a plant it could be microorganisms

[idle mesa]

true true

[twin dragon]

And yk, hearts biomes aren't really tied to higher beings

[idle mesa]

i mean

[low oracle]

Fayhorn and Nyleth are not common bugs though, even if they're not confirmed as HBs either.

The Skarr are the most normal bugs of the four.

[twin dragon]

yeah they're strong mortals

not higher beings

[near jasper]

Verdanians are also very normal

[low oracle]

Verdania would be too, if it weren't for the fact that the Green Prince's depression stops the land from regrowing.

[twin dragon]

And they're usually strong from the heart's power itself

[near jasper]

Is it really?

[lyric rose]

Maybe he’s just fertilizer

[low oracle]

Idk. Karmelita can stop the powers of a HB for some time, across hundreds by herself. I guess GMS is weak to song, so maybe that's not so special. She is capable of common speech though, as well as being distinctly powerful and big.
The Green Prince's state of mind noticably affects the health of Verdania's land. Once reunited with his partner in a grimm way, the land can finally regrow.
The coral kingdom is divided between sentient and sapient bugs, yet both follow a grand, powerful leader. One that changes across generations. They also all have organical corals giving them powerful abilities and armor/shells.
Shellwood is an entire ecosystem created by one being, that is also capable of having followers with special powers (Seth doesn't seem to age, require nutrition, and is under a spell that blocks his own thoughts).
There is also some theorizing of the Moss Druid wanting a heart for the Mosslands but I just gathered that from someone else's speculation.

[low oracle]

That must be pretty strong fertalizer then, with several coincidences tied to it.

Otherwise Verdanians and Skarr are normal.

[twin dragon]

Yeah the moss druid was cookin up a heart

[near jasper]

If verdania can't grow because of the green prince's depression why did it die in the first place?

[low oracle]

His depression.

He got depressed cuz his lover died, stayed depressed and locked himself up (?) or was locked up, then died later on, ending his depression.

Verdania died and regrew in that same way, apparently.

[near jasper]

Didnt his partner die after verdania started dying

Which led to the deal with the citadel where after he died and got put into cogwork dancers

[lyric rose]

because they locked him away from his lover