sk-lore

[twin dragon]

[civic elm]

Fly down a bit and heal

[twin dragon]

Atp thats just gameplay

its not that deep

[civic elm]

Or they just nerfed her

[twin dragon]

Why doesnt the radiance just fly out of the knight's range?

[twin dragon]

She's very nerfed but this is purely gameplay

[civic elm]

But gms does fly out of our range once in the fight

[twin dragon]

Also its not like the mounds of silk there can js be recycled

They're notably less glowy

[fading shard]

How badly do you guys think groal would lose to soul master

or groal to hegemol

or groal to traitor lord

[twin dragon]

groal gets mogged by anyone

[civic elm]

He would easily loose to siul master

[twin dragon]

groal is js a guy

[fading shard]

YES

[civic elm]

Not these the ones in the room to the right

[fading shard]

a guy I wish had a worse death

[civic elm]

It is nearly a fukl bar of silk just sitting their

[twin dragon]

what room to the right

[civic elm]

2 weaver woven silk things

The hornet can hit and get the silk from

[twin dragon]

Where is it

[civic elm]

Getting a map

I remember up of the bench

[twin dragon]

So gms can become a ghost and go through walls now

[civic elm]

No

[twin dragon]

Funnily enough she does use the silk thats scattered around to manipulate the environment

[civic elm]

It is literally next room

[twin dragon]

Yeah she can't go through it bro

atp gms will just fucking

flee from hornet

[civic elm]

Binding it not flee

Like from a far

She can dispense her silk as scene in act 3 ending

[twin dragon]

As if she knows hornet can chase her or smt

[civic elm]

So she can absorb silk from nearby

[twin dragon]

what

what are you saying

[civic elm]

She can dispense her silk

Act 3

[twin dragon]

fym dispense

[civic elm]

She gives it to hornet

Like give it

[twin dragon]

She's giving her very fiber

whats left of her

[civic elm]

Yes

[twin dragon]

to hornet

[civic elm]

So she can dispense her silk

So she can absorb silk

[twin dragon]

Uh

that's not really uh compatible

[civic elm]

How can you give some soul if you cant get soul

[twin dragon]

Because you have big amounts of it

What is this argument bro

💔

[civic elm]

Or because you can bind

[twin dragon]

Nothing to do w it btw

She wont js waste precious silk to bind in front of someone who's constantly trying to get her

[civic elm]

Look. How would the knight blast his spells if he doesnt know basic focusing of soul

[twin dragon]

This is literally for gameplay's sake why doesnt gms just fucking

send everyone at once

towards hornet

yap yap

[civic elm]

Then why doesnt she bind a stronger attack

An attack of silk

[twin dragon]

fym bind a stronger attack

binding isnt casting

[civic elm]

Bind any silk art

[civic elm]

Really?

[twin dragon]

From who

or where

[twin dragon]

...Yeah

[civic elm]

Use any silk art

[twin dragon]

Does she know any that's the question

and again

precious silk

Yeah no im out

[civic elm]

But there is silk everywhere

What precious silk

Take a look around her

A single attack wouldnt matter

[twin dragon]

That's also hers and likely spent

also uses that to move stuff around

[civic elm]

My point is something stops her from fully using her silk and silk around her that isnt present in act3

[twin dragon]

Its not like she js can grab that from the platform and do shit

[twin dragon]

Fym

She cant do anyting in a3

[civic elm]

It is explained for qidow

[civic elm]

She build an entire cacoon

Under the void

[twin dragon]

have you seen how she looks

mate

are we deadass

[civic elm]

She used her entirr silk for that

Widows inabiliy of using large amounts of silk was

Her body seemed a Weaver's, but her mask had been forcibly removed, and her own Silk was bound useless by heavy pins lodged through her spine.

[twin dragon]

She doesnt use her own silk

Gms doesnt use spells because she can't cast, she tries to save silk, or she's shackled or some bullshit

[civic elm]

But for gms there is no explanation other than her not being full of silk

[twin dragon]

There is

im explaining this to you

you dont care

[civic elm]

Innthe fight we cant see nothing bounding her. Why would she save silk. And she is obviously able to cast seeing as she can flow the silk inside and outside her body

[twin dragon]

That isnt really casting

She saves silk

[civic elm]

It is the basic of casting

[twin dragon]

because she's dry of it

almost

[civic elm]

Why

She isnt

[twin dragon]

fym why

You can argue with the wall

[civic elm]

Show me something that cobfiems

[twin dragon]

the fact that she's been milked dry for millenia

and uh

is trying to get the silk back

by binding weavers

[civic elm]

She wasnt she was binding weavers every now and then

[twin dragon]

presumably

[twin dragon]

Yeah thats not enough

this is only relatively recent too

[civic elm]

She was never at a low on silk

[twin dragon]

[civic elm]

How

Do you know how much a weaver can produce in silk

Hornet cant produce much due to the effects of the seal of the cage that she was in.

But other weavers and half pale

They are able to produce so much

No reason for gms to be low on silk

The only explanation is sherma and the other pilgrims (none of the choir as they are all already under the haunting) still having effect on her

[warm igloo]

Does anyone know what mister mushroom is talking bout in far fields? I think he refering to the game Celeste, no?

Or is all he says just nonsense

[orchid plaza]

probably

[twin dragon]

She literally wakes up the lullaby was waned a long time ago

[twin dragon]

The weavers themselves faded from silk usage

And uh, there's a reason gms seeks more

[somber lantern]

Well um she did just wake up from being in that cocoon

[gentle aspen]

the lullaby stopped playing apparently and gods sleep heavily

[somber lantern]

But there probably was still remnants of the weavers original spell bc the cocoon is still intact when hornet gets there

[vale iron]

hii

[somber lantern]

heylo

[vale iron]

there's a hollow knight or silksong gamers?

[somber lantern]

?

[wise plank]

ye

[vale iron]

coool

i love that games

[wise plank]

noice did you play it?

[vale iron]

yeeep

on pc

[somber lantern]

Nice

I tried on pc once but was lowk bad

[vale iron]

i downloaded it from steamunlocked

[somber lantern]

Me to

[vale iron]

we're poors 😂

[wise plank]

get on console

it harder but manegable

[vale iron]

yeah

can we be friends guys?

[turbid geode]

https://tenor.com/view/silksong-broke-silksong-hornet-poor-shaw-gif-2887891468037019861

aw no gif perm

basically rosaries-less hornet

[vale iron]

yep

[turbid geode]

i lowkey wanted to buy it on my switch but i'm broke so i had to take it from my friend

-# he's been calling me non stop for 2 days

[ripe ether]

could lace hypothetically bind stuff? why (not)?

[sinful nimbus]

she doesn't seem to be able to manipulate silk despite being made of it

[somber lantern]

Might be bc GMS didn’t want her powerful enough to rebel like the weavers

[sturdy arrow]

So that's Far Fields, Shellwood and the Wormways that are all severely damaged because of Hornet

[sinful nimbus]

she's evil fr

[somber lantern]

Technically all of pharloom thanks to the shaman’s trap

[kindred ingot]

what's the topic here

[sturdy arrow]

Hornet is a very unlikeable character

[kindred ingot]

she is a likeable character
proof: I like her

[sturdy arrow]

Well, you should have better opinions.

[kindred ingot]

she has flaws, and she has killed many bugs and doomed many civilizations

but she's cool

I'm not defending her, but I like her because she has those flaws

[sturdy arrow]

Being racist and destroying environments isn't a meaningful flaw that gets explored.

If she was meant to be flawed, it's handled extremely poorly

[somber lantern]

Hornet is racist???

[kindred ingot]

destroying environments for the greater good is tho

[sinful nimbus]

who's alt is this and why are they kinda based

[sturdy arrow]

The slabfly entries.

[kindred ingot]

one of the main themes of Hollow Knight is moving on from the past to build a better future

[somber lantern]

Isn’t that bc she got kidnapped

[sinful nimbus]

Not for wormways or Karmelita if that's her 4th heart

[kindred ingot]

she has those entries even if she doesn't get kidnapped

[sturdy arrow]

Which means killing everyone who's already there?

[sturdy arrow]

^

[sinful nimbus]

She says a lot of weird stuff in there like how she doesn't feel bad about the fact that scabflies are child slaves

[kindred ingot]

Wormways wasn't really her fault tho

[sinful nimbus]

Even if she was kidnapped its weird and evil

[kindred ingot]

she didn't do anything to worsen the Wormways situation

[somber lantern]

Oh

[kindred ingot]

she just... didn't really help stop it either

[somber lantern]

Bad hornet

[sturdy arrow]

She literally extracts lifeblood from the buds.

[craggy smelt]

wormways is an improvement
plasmium strong

[kindred ingot]

one of Hornet's main character traits is that she just allows bugs to do whatever they want even when it's genuinely bad for them

[sinful nimbus]

Uh, even after wormways is clearly plasmified he helps Zylotol to advance his (sinister) goals

[kindred ingot]

and how exactly does that affect anything whatsoever

[sinful nimbus]

She also never warns him of the dangers of lifeblood despite knowing about them

[foggy fractal]

aw man did I miss slabfly discussion?

https://tenor.com/view/walks-away-sad-leave-tom-and-jerry-gif-16877258

[sturdy arrow]

Because it's getting lifeblood to help Zylotol to destroy the Wormways and possibly more of Pharloom.

[somber lantern]

It helps xylitol to fill the worm ways

[craggy smelt]

she does tell him she thinks she knows about lifeblood, but he doesn't believe her

[kindred ingot]

even if you don't do that quest Wormways gets plasmified

[sinful nimbus]

Have faith, dear assistant... After all this I understand... the greatest knowledge comes only from faith... faith in Plasmium.
This blood you have collected... sparkles... I see it! A glorious form... a glorious future, shimmering back at us...
Through consumption of the blood... we shall at last attain enlightenment...
ts is clearly not good bro

[sturdy arrow]

I don't know how anyone can sympathise with her.

[kindred ingot]

he doesn't do anything with that tho, he just dies shortly thereafter

I mean,

becomes unresponsive

[sinful nimbus]

It helps advance towards a "glorious form" and "glorious future", at best its worsening his condition

[somber lantern]

But his “final” act is to give hornet even more plasmium

[kindred ingot]

again, one of Hornet's main traits is that she just allows bugs to do whatever they want with themselves

[kindred ingot]

yeah, which she doesn't use to fuck up Wormways, she just uses it for personal gains

[sinful nimbus]

Its not really and it hardly plays into the narrative if it was

[kindred ingot]

Wormways would end up like that whether she did the quests or not

[sturdy arrow]

She's still complicit.

[somber lantern]

But her actions and his intentions are different

[craggy smelt]

there are a couple of times she mentions lifeblood's alluring power
I can see her being willing to help zylotol for the opportunity to exploit it
he's pretty clearly going forwards with his studies no matter what

[kindred ingot]

she shows it almost every time she talks with an NPC who's in a bad condition
"maybe you shouldn't do the pilgrimage" "but I have to for my faith" "ok"
"maybe you should leave the Underworks" "but I have to keep working to ascend" "ok"

[sinful nimbus]

that's different from actively helping them though 🥴

[kindred ingot]

she only interferes when it's affecting others (or when it's Green Prince, she just really hates Green Prince)

[sinful nimbus]

it is affecting others

she does nothing

[kindred ingot]

it what

[somber lantern]

It’s affecting the entire wormways

[kindred ingot]

the Wormways?

[sturdy arrow]

In their second conversation, she tells him that he can die if he wants to.

[sinful nimbus]

Pharloom shall quickly learn the curse of this substance. What benefits it provides can be swiftly outweighed.
bro 🥀

[kindred ingot]

I mean, she didn't even know it would happen

[somber lantern]

^

[sinful nimbus]

Yeah she did? She's seen plasmification in Hallownest

[sturdy arrow]

And don't say that Hornet is reducing the lifeblood in the Wormways by extracting the blood.

[sinful nimbus]

She doesn't warn zylotol she doesn't even have the decency not to help him with his plans

[kindred ingot]

she frees him when he tells her not to, invades his memories when he tells her to leave him alone, and kills him when he tells her to leave his sacred memory

[kindred ingot]

not at that scale tho

[kindred ingot]

I mean, he does say he did it before and nothing happened

[sinful nimbus]

Yeah that doesn't mean she'd forget about it

He carelessly seeded these caves with that cursed substance...
son 💔

[foggy fractal]

cousin...

[kindred ingot]

when does she say that?

[sinful nimbus]

Zango entry

[foggy fractal]

mango...

🤤

[sinful nimbus]

He carelessly seeded these caves with that cursed substance... His final fate seems fair reward for those efforts, yet I feel some sympathy. It is an alluring power.
i'm kinda cherrypicking that one tbf

but its still kinda wild even with the full thing

[kindred ingot]

that's after she sees how bad it ended up being

[sturdy arrow]

She already knows how bad it is

[kindred ingot]

she's never seen a full area plasmified like that

[sturdy arrow]

She writes that she saw similar things in Hallownest when lifeblood flourished

[kindred ingot]

where does she say that?

[somber lantern]

And she literally says it to zylotol

But she lets him go on anyways

[sinful nimbus]

In my home caves, when once this substance was allowed to flourish, I saw similar aberrations. This is wonder tainted strong with revulsion.
this isn't about the infection cuz its correlated with lifeblood being allowed to flourish

[kindred ingot]

"the process is utterly, completely safe"

[sturdy arrow]

^

[sinful nimbus]

she knows it isn't lol

[kindred ingot]

as every other time before, she answers that with "ok"

[stray grove]

Zango and Zylotol did nothing wrong btw

[sturdy arrow]

Narrator so unreliable it's diegetic

[kindred ingot]

she does, but as of every other time such a thing happened, she doesn't interfere with a bug's suicidal wishes

[somber lantern]

Zylotol did stuff and we honestly we don’t know for zango, he was on a mission to spread lifeblood

[kindred ingot]

they committed a mistake, but they never could have seen it coming

[stray grove]

They were just following the scientific method there was no reason to suspect that Lifeblood was dangerous when in their extensive testing they had never observed any harmful effects
Hornet knew this however and instead of explaining that to him she not only lets him continue seeing the caverns with Lifeblood but actively assists him then has the gall to stand up and act like she has the moral high ground

[sinful nimbus]

I have a better mad scientist OC (art is by chatgpt)

[kindred ingot]

"art is by chatgpt"

lame ass

[somber lantern]

Is that trobbio

[sturdy arrow]

And no, extracting plasmium and plasmified blood doesn't remove lifeblood from the wormways.

[gentle aspen]

you just love stealing bits don’t you

[sinful nimbus]

that was my bit bro

[gentle aspen]

uh huh

[sinful nimbus]

I invented it

[gentle aspen]

I believe you

[sinful nimbus]

exposed larpers

[kindred ingot]

which bit

[somber lantern]

What’s a bit

[foggy fractal]

I think its like a pixel

or something like that

something computer related?

[gentle aspen]

its not ai generated its cut content/a mockup for what team Cherry wanted for backer created characters

[kindred ingot]

a kind of joke where someone comes up with a scenario and sticks to it as if it was real

[sinful nimbus]

no fun allowed

[kindred ingot]

oooooo ok

[foggy fractal]

speaking of kickstarters

gah when are we getting the other two dungeons

[somber lantern]

Ty

[sinful nimbus]

AI probably would've come up with something better than Markoth's dialogue

[foggy fractal]

do we think we'll get one in sos?

[kindred ingot]

what's even the point of saying it's AI? you're just getting hated on for no reason

[sinful nimbus]

they tested it on wild animals bro

[kindred ingot]

people hate Markoth's dialogue?

[sinful nimbus]

Never... have I been defeated in combat.

I can... see myself there, still sleeping. How long have I been hidden here?
Here at the edge of the world, no-one could find me... except you.
Warriors, knights, kings, even time itself... they have no power over me. Only you.
You are the darkness... come to consume me.
corny 🥀

[random aspen]

people remember dialogue?

[foggy fractal]

y'all read?

[foggy fractal]

hey at least its not slabfly journal levels of dialogue

[sinful nimbus]

its funny asf bro

[stray grove]

Kings what kings bro what is he talking about

[sturdy arrow]

Oh don't even get me started

[random aspen]

cant believe hornet said this

[kindred ingot]

"come to consume me" 🤨

[sinful nimbus]

proof that Team Cherry uses AI

[kindred ingot]

that was in 2017

[sinful nimbus]

its spiritually AI

like Ori

[kindred ingot]

fuck you mean spiritually

[foggy fractal]

yeah there's just no defending it

[stray grove]

Yeah it’s spiritually AI

[random aspen]

team cherry puts random words that hvaent been used since 1700s in their dialogue

[sturdy arrow]

I saw some idiot saying the slabflies aren't enslaved because they're allowed to leave and they drop rosaries

[kindred ingot]

you're spiritually a well-fed poisonous toad

[foggy fractal]

well you're right they're an idiot

[foggy fractal]

what happens if she's not well fed

[sturdy arrow]

The slabflies are just following orders

[kindred ingot]

she starves ig

[foggy fractal]

noooooooooooooooo

[random aspen]

sybau

[kindred ingot]

WE HAVE THAT???

[random aspen]

is broodmother too big to leave her cave

[kindred ingot]

fuck

look

I can say fuck

what word did they say

[random aspen]

i said the g word

[sturdy arrow]

Probably

[kindred ingot]

...

guck

gaggot?

[random aspen]

rhymes with spoon

[sturdy arrow]

The flies would leave the slab if they could, they're literally imprisoned

[kindred ingot]

gpoon?

o

[somber lantern]

Nah, gspoon

[kindred ingot]

I see

[random aspen]

https://klipy.com/gifs/jack-black-opening-book

[random aspen]

now that shes like reincarnated and small she can leave

freedom for the slabflies

[somber lantern]

But she can’t fly

[kindred ingot]

I just noticed Jack Black looks like VSauce with hair

[sturdy arrow]

She can't, they're locked up

[somber lantern]

Oh nvm

[sturdy arrow]

The citadel lets out only Wardenflies

[random aspen]

my son cant go to school cus he cant drive a car

[somber lantern]

She one doesn’t want to leave and two is going to get too big to leave fast

[somber lantern]

Lol

And she actually can fly

[trail wagon]

I don't really think he does

[uneven narwhal]

How come everyone always uses rosaries/geo? like I get that they’re under a kingdom but how come some bugs like red ants/mantises use them? Like if the red ants were against granny silk why would they use her currency

[craggy smelt]

kingdom-wide trade tokens might be handy, if there's any commerce with other tribes - they don't necessarily have to be tribes that are aligned with the ruling authority

like, maybe the ants trade them with crawbugs or something

or they could just be shiny trophies - look how many stupid pilgrims I killed, look at how many bits that big one dropped, etc.

the mottled skarr at least recognize the value of rosaries as currency

[muted lantern]

We see that non haunted skarr are willing to trade with outsiders, mottled accepts rosaries. Likely before the haunting there was some amount of trade.

And mantis tribe allied with the pale king iirc

[oak helm]

if you want a realistic answer it's for gameplay convenience

[low oracle]

Do Stilkin use rosaries? I believe not, though I may misremember. If anyone could confirm (I can't right now), there would be a good argument to be made.

[foggy stratus]

They dont drop any.

[gentle aspen]

to be fair even without the whole gameplay convenience thing

geo is fossilized bug shell and using a general standard of currency is helpful
It isn’t as though everyone couldn’t use it, since it seemingly has existed since ancient times

as for rosaries? I dunno

Pharloom’s like

Stinky

[foggy stratus]

Stupid fucking theocracy.

[gentle aspen]

if you want you can explain it away as the kingdom’s in decline and falling so they take whatever money they can get

that’s basically headcanon but this doesn’t matter much so I think it’s a reasonable explanation

[low oracle]

Thanks The Horf Vessel. So basically:

The Stilkin truly hate the Citadel with every part of their being. They do anything to oppose it and cause it damage, even capturing (basicaly) innocent pilgrims and killing them. Pilgrims carrying rosaries means Stilkin absolutely have access to them one way or another. However rosaries are of the Citadel and therefore won't be used in any way. Even if it benefitted the Stilkin, the idea of acting how the Citadel intended is something they would never do.
There is also something with rosaries symbolizing holyness and the Stilkin rejecting the idea of this religion entirely.

Skarr on the other hand aren't as intense on seeing the Citadel gone. While they are a separate tribe like the Craws, they aren't shown to have goals of specifically bringing the Citadel to its end. Simply put, they neutraly oppose it, as with every other foreign society.
The Skarr and the Craws both use rosaries despite not being part of the Citadel's infrastructure. Using real life examples, gold is often valued for its appearance (even if it does have technical functionality). The same could be the case for rosaries, where their worth being defined by the bugs makes them seem more valuable than they are, and therefore objects of interest.

[tame siren]

is mount fay bird a higher being too ?

[foggy fractal]

we don't know enough to say tbh

[sturdy arrow]

She's a moth.

[low oracle]

Not confirmed, but speculated. No, it's not a moth as the other guy said.

Or at least not a confirmed one if so.

[plush oyster]

Weaver arms are so confusing, how can some of them hide them away even without their clothes??

[low oracle]

Plausible Theory:

They don't consistently use the same amount.

[foggy fractal]

yeah I was gonna say they just fold them up or something
also yeah tc isn't consistent with it, probably to save time or have visual clarity because drawing 8 limbs everytime sounds like a pain
we do know fs and other weavers have 8 limbs though, Widow however is only shown with 6

[low oracle]

The most plausible theory is that their "ribcage" are their limbs folded up.

[plush oyster]

I never thought much about the Deepnest weavers having less limbs mostly because of their clothes, but yeah, First Sinner has 8 and Widow has 6 for some reason

[foggy fractal]

I think its plausible its a part of her torture
I mean she already got her whole big ass head ripped off

[limpid summit]

She’s enigmatic and has some sort of power. She might be an Old Heart because the mister mushroom poem calls her “fell heart of frost.” But mask maker lives right next to her and doesn’t really suggest she is one so probably not

[plush oyster]

I'd say not, mostly because of the scrapped cutscene depicting her mask being ripped off, but since it's scrapped, i guess it doesn't mean too much

[foggy stratus]

Maybe. Might also be an Old Heart.

[tame siren]

Whats an Old Heart ?

[foggy stratus]

A mortal with a high amount of, typically inherited, power and a connection to the land they reside in.

You'll learn more about them in Act 3.

[tame siren]

So like green prince , krust king, nayleth, karmelita

[foggy stratus]

Yeah.

[tame siren]

i am still at act 2

but got spoiled before

[errant vault]

Hello everyone! I made a video about the connection between Nameless Town and the Conductor in Silksong. My previous version was made in Chinese, so it may have been difficult for some people to follow. Recently, I created a fully English version, and I hope you all enjoy it!❤️ https://youtu.be/PnAmy7PbMjI

[paper mantle]

Pale ore...

[random harbor]

Inventory item: Pale Ore

Rare, pale metal that emanates an icy chill.
Prized by those who craft weapons.

@nostor_10. used /inventory category: Item item: Pale Ore

[paper mantle]

So the masks come from Pale Beings?

[craggy smelt]

the ore might

TC said pale ore has some 'connection' with pale beings, but we don't really get any more info than that

maybe invested with some of their power

'the ore touched pale'

[sick tinsel]

interesting

[neat spade]

guys, there's a dialogue in the Coral Tower with the king and it left me confused, it was "...Alone, AGAINST the pale light...", reference to the pale beings?? like the pale king???

[spark valve]

gms and the citadel

[trail wagon]

@spark valve "We would hear the song of the Architects, at the core of our Citadel."

You said the core was built by the conductors, but wasn't the elevator built by the Weavers?

[spark valve]

the elevator was maybe built by weavers but the conductors clearly replaced stuff there since there's a conductor statue

[trail wagon]

Why would they send the Pilgrims to the core if it's not yet finished?

And wasn't finished at the time of building these

Also, why does the choir at the top of the cogwork tower sing the Architect's melody if it was meant to be used as the primary source of the song? Wouldn't it take more melodies to compose the melody that keeps GMS asleep?

[spark valve]

to learn the melody from the architects

[trail wagon]

Do we know what melody keeps her asleep?

[spark valve]

the threefold melody and all the music the citadel produces

[trail wagon]

But the goal of the core was to replace the Pilgrimage entirely, no?

[spark valve]

not necessarily and either way they'd still be doing this while the core is being created

[low oracle]

The elevator was def not built by Weavers, just compare the Weavenest one and it should make sense. Of course they could've built various types, but it really just looks like Architect technology.

[trail wagon]

But why would they not make the statues play the threefold melody instead and just get rid of the Pilgrims all together?

[trail wagon]

But the Weavers made the Architects?

[low oracle]

The cogwork core wasn't created by the Weavers either.

[spark valve]

they never finished the core even if this was the plan they wouldn't have done it yet

[trail wagon]

Pretty sure

[low oracle]

Not directly I think? They gave rule to the Conductors, which led to the three factions, as well as all the gilding and increased corruption.

[trail wagon]

I see, yeah, but the core in the game seems to be pretty much done besides the fact it's locked behind the puzzle and only plays one of the melodies

[spark valve]

it was almost finished

architect says that

Hornet: Master, I seek a melody held by your line, one part of a sequence, and key to ascending above the Citadel. Can you teach it to me?

Our melody? I r-r-recall! Yes! There was melody, once, but its sound... that I possess no longer...
T-t-t-too long I have worked. From my mind-vault, the imprint has f-f-faded. With many things it is like this... remembrance, dimmed...
**But you m-m-may hear it, still. At the height of our core, there is means-s-s-system, near complete... Constructs old-built to sound our song. They need only be set to functional form. **

[low oracle]

So:
Weavers | Citadel of Stone -> Conductors | gilded Citadel -> Conductors, Vaultkeepers and Architects -> Architects | Cogwork Core (and Underworks to sustain it)

Idk if this is correct.

[trail wagon]

Well, the Twelfth Architect says that to serve the weavers is the directive they have

[low oracle]

Whiteward was partially built by Weavers (silk syphon) and was expanded by the Conductors (injecting silk into bugs).

[trail wagon]

If weavers weren't there at the time of their creation, it wouldn't make sense for them to be programmed to serve the Weavers

[trail wagon]

Yeah, I believe so

[paper mantle]

Do you think the ancient mask is based on a Pale Being?

[low oracle]

No, it'd still make sense. The Weavers are what the entire religion worships, even after their departure. This means that all parts of the Citadel and its bugs must worship Weavers, these immaculate gods they portrayed themselves as.

[trail wagon]

From this dialogue it actually seems like the core was never meant to play anything else other than the Architect's melody

[trail wagon]

Which kinda raises a question of why is it "not complete" if it works in the game

[spark valve]

it doesn't work in the game until hornet completes it

[trail wagon]

Hmm you're right I think

[spark valve]

near complete... Constructs old-built to sound our song. They need only be set to functional form.

[trail wagon]

What does she do tho? She doesn't do any complex mechanical changes..

[spark valve]

she sets it to functional form

[trail wagon]

She literally just enters the password

[trail wagon]

If it makes sens4

[spark valve]

which is the thing architect says needs to be done to complete it

'They need only be set to functional form'

then she does that

[trail wagon]

Why did no one do this before?

[spark valve]

haunting, zombies, death, chaos

[low oracle]

Remember, Architects also probably evolved over time. The Cogwork core is higly modern, while the three automaton statues before the cradle seem older. Pius Isamor is basically ancient, prolly even the first automaton ever made.

Clawmaidens are a bit weird, as they're modeled after Weavers and use silk skills, while still apparently being very early forms of automatons. They either got assistance in building by a Weaver, or were just designed the earliest of the modern automatons.

[trail wagon]

It's not that much to do

[spark valve]

and yet nobody did it

[trail wagon]

That's weird

What exactly does the haunting do tho?

[spark valve]

infection

[trail wagon]

And why did it happen in the first place

[spark valve]

turns bugs into violent servants of gms

[low oracle]

Well she does arrange the parts correctly, like piecing together a "complex" puzzle. Maybe incomplete just meant that the parts weren't correctly assembled yet.

[spark valve]

it happened because of whiteward stuff

[trail wagon]

Yeah, I get that, but to me it looks a bit silly that they were able to construct this giant ahh mechanic tower and the only reason why it isn't functioning is because no one pulled a couple of levers

[spark valve]

that's what architect says happened

[trail wagon]

I get that the Citadel bugs were injecting silk because they believed it would make them practically immortal

But why does literally every bug in pharloom have it?

Craws for instance

[spark valve]

it made its way out into the environment

[sick tinsel]

"all things must accept an end, and its foolish to go against that"
vespa probably

[trail wagon]

I kinda missed that, where's it from?

[spark valve]

In the air. The water. Everywhere.
Inside their shells. Twisted inside. Guts.
Tightest around heart. Pulsing rhythm.
Sick. Alive. Dead?
Something worse.
Deeper. Must look deeper.

[trail wagon]

Oh right

[low oracle]

The infection returns bugs to their primal instincts as well as them doing their tasks mindlessly. The Radiance can also take over the minds of individual bugs to use them (Soul Master was corrupted by the influence of the Radiance, hence believing soul would solve everything). The infection also gives great power at the cost of the body deforming into volatile matter. It is also described as a dream without awakening.

The haunting is similar, where bugs once again return to their tasks they were assigned. It also makes bugs extremely hostile. It can be resisted by song, though it only stagnates the haunting. It also seems that GMS controls haunted bugs via emotions rather than with direct control. The haunting comes from silk, which directly increases the health of bugs.

Both are Hiveminds, though in different ways. I also believe that both can apply to bugs dead or alive.

[trail wagon]

I'm wondering, could Hornet control the silk inside of the haunted..?

[spark valve]

she does to an extent with the needolin and in weaver queen will do so

[low oracle]

Needolin does precisely that.

[trail wagon]

But Hornet can't make them do what she wants

I guess because the GMS is more powerful

[low oracle]

In Weaver Queen it is speculated that GMS (as the greater force) takes over the newly aquired form of both.

[trail wagon]

I thought it was the other way around, Hornet takes her power

[low oracle]

Cuz GMS is a higher being. Btw, the Skrills at the top of the Cradle aren't haunted and hence ignore the needolin.

[trail wagon]

Yes, I know

[spark valve]

that is what happens in weaver queen yes

[trail wagon]

Imobas too

Or would it be Imobae? 😭

[spark valve]

takes her power and succumbs to her evil genes which are just a thing apparently

[trail wagon]

Plural

[trail wagon]

I'm curious, how does GMS make the weavers evolve? And why did she decide to do that in the first place, why does she need them to play her some song?

[twin dragon]

Also implied indoctrination

[spark valve]

magic and she wanted kids

[low oracle]

I saw an explanation of:

Hornet binds GMS because she isn't powerful enough to kill her. However in binding her, she'd take up her nature, that of a ruler. She wouldn't be any different than GMS, and still haunt the bugs as her nature wants her to. She's just replace a dictator with an even stronger version of said dictator.

[trail wagon]

Cause in the cutscene it doesn't really look different from Pharlids being haunted

[spark valve]

the haunted don't typically spontaneously evolve into intelligent beings with free will

[trail wagon]

Well, Hornet does consume a part of the personality of those she binds

[low oracle]

Song—as most heigher beings do, she wangts worship

Ascending—higher beings can do that, just like Pale King did with the majority of Hallownest. Basically all sapient bug's minds are expanded and they become sentient.

[trail wagon]

I don't remember where it was said, but it definitely was mentioned somewhere

In the Eva dialogue before binding her, I believe

[low oracle]

Precisely. She's already half wyrm (half rule seeking higher being) and with the grand power of GMS she can't keep herself from becoming the next ruler.

[trail wagon]

Hornet says that Eva's identity will exist as an extension of her own

[low oracle]

Eva says nature.

[trail wagon]

From what I understood, Weavers are also naturally greedy for power too

[trail wagon]

Don't all bugs need a HB to develop higher thought?

[spark valve]

no

[low oracle]

This is what I accept as how that can be interpreted. All beings bound become lesser parts of Hornet, which follow her actions and such.

[trail wagon]

YES

[low oracle]

Nope, or they already did a long time ago.

[trail wagon]

I literally wanted to send this pic

[whole holly]

me me too, i love eva in pic

[trail wagon]

Alrighty

[foggy stratus]

Mantises, Bees, Skarrs, Karaka, Verdania, maybe Deepnest spiders,Shakra's tribe, Garmond's tribe

[whole holly]

they don't need HB to develop higher thought

[trail wagon]

Do we KNOW the Pharloom's civilizations existed prior to GMS?

[spark valve]

yes

[low oracle]

Karaka implies it.

[trail wagon]

How?

[whole holly]

yea, the Old Hearts did and their tribes

[foggy stratus]

I was listing off ones that didnt need a Higher Being to.

[spark valve]

the snails say it

[trail wagon]

Ohhh I forgor

[sinful nimbus]

Pharloom was not born of that monarch, Old One. Power existed in these lands even before she bound them beneath her.

[whole holly]

you didn't specify that

[trail wagon]

True

Well

Did some part of the Citadel exist before the Weavers?

We can find the harps the Weavers used to play the song for GMS in the Cradle

[spark valve]

no

[trail wagon]

Whai

[trail wagon]

Why would that be there

At least the cradle area

It would make sense for it to be the place where they played the song

[spark valve]

because they built an entire citadel around their trapped mother why wouldn't the things that were once near gms be discarded near there

[trail wagon]

It would also be a great place to capture the GMS

[whole holly]

i assume First Shrine is also pretty old, not before weavers though

[trail wagon]

Well that's definitely after the capture

[craggy smelt]

I don't know, but that's an interesting thought
I've never really considered that masks might be based on other existing entities or gods

[trail wagon]

And the religious had to already exist at the time

[whole holly]

capture of what?

[trail wagon]

Did the mask maker make them?

[whole holly]

they talk about visage and i think that word connects to some higher being if i recall correctly

[trail wagon]

Gms

Also what do masks do?

It doesn't seem like the mask is really necessary to be alive

[whole holly]

Pale King is stated to be radiant in visage, and merchant in silksong says : " Part of an ancient mask, or a fractured shard of someone's visage? With the full thing, you'd be better able to protect your shell. " so i think this is basis

[whole holly]

she wasn't captured, she was sealed

[trail wagon]

I don't know if there's much of a difference tbh

[whole holly]

i think there is quite a difference

[craggy smelt]

visage can also refer to face, and some bugs don't seem to draw a distinction between a mask and a face... I wonder how much overlap in meaning there is
I suppose the ancient masks must have belonged to somebody, maybe serving as their face

[mighty parcel]

Why is the First Sinner’s mask cracked?

[trail wagon]

The mask maker equates having a mask to "being", but I feel like it's a bit of an exaggeration

[whole holly]

i just feel like it is purposefully vague

[trail wagon]

The mask maker literally says both

So are all faces masks?

[mighty parcel]

Not all

Widow had her mask forcibly removed

[trail wagon]

What's the distinction?

[paper mantle]

A mask, two eyes...

[craggy smelt]

yeah, both Mask Maker and Hornet refer to Hornet's face as a 'mask', one that she's had all her life
MM creates masks for bugs that don't have a face, to give them a face, so he doesn't seem to distinguish

[trail wagon]

Yep, and she's still alive

[paper mantle]

Idk

[mighty parcel]

Not in mind

[trail wagon]

True, but it's not like she lost her capacity to "be"

[craggy smelt]

it seems to be naturally that way, we see her origin as a transformed pharlid and her masks starts out that way

(which is weird, because Weaver masks can be removed, so maybe pharlids also had masks?)

[trail wagon]

From what he says it seems like the masks are vital

And it doesn't seem to be the case

[craggy smelt]

a face may be vital, and a mask serves as a face

Styx seems like an example of a bug without a face

[trail wagon]

Does that mean that all other weavers came from Pharlids with a round head? 😭

[craggy smelt]

who knows

[trail wagon]

It may not, because we already know of a creature being alive without a mask

[craggy smelt]

did they still have a face?

also living without any kind of face/mask may be possible, but the creature just remains 'incomplete' in some way

[mighty parcel]

Like widow!

[craggy smelt]

a silk memory of a faceless Styx contemplates what they are meant to be

[trail wagon]

I believe it gives sanity

Or personality, perhaps

It's super vague

The MM himself seems to better off without a mask

Hornet even says "I wanted to hear you lucid", so he's more lucid without a mask, even

Maybe different masks give different personalities..?

[mighty parcel]

Quirrel wears Monomon’s mask

[trail wagon]

That too

Well, he doesn't wear it the same way others wear it

[mighty parcel]

IIRC he’s different in that final blue lake encounter

[trail wagon]

It's like wearing a face vs having someone's scalp on your forehead

[trail wagon]

I'm sorry

[warm igloo]

Does anyone know if mister mushroom refers to Celeste in far fields?

[mighty parcel]

But that might just be chalked up to his character arc

[warm igloo]

Also, is the green prince gay or is his partner a princess?

[trail wagon]

I honestly think this time he might be referencing more in-game stuff

[trail wagon]

Gay

[mighty parcel]

Hornet calls his partner “So like [The Green Prince]”

[craggy smelt]

hallownest' mask maker says

A mask! A face! Does it need one? Does it not? To define. To focus. To exist.
he also mentions that wearing a mask can change you
To change a face; to conceal it fully within another... A powerful protection that is, but one with sad consequence.
The original mind is destroyed, though those of striking will may still retain a sliver of that concealed self.
this might be why the mask makers change without their masks
Ahh. Old One. Your kind should know it's rude to expose me such. Unmasked, the task becomes heavy.

[warm igloo]

I genuinely didn't understand anything he said, it was all nonsense. I'll replay the game in the future with the mindset of in game relations

[craggy smelt]

MM is references to other TC projects, and possibly in-jokes we will never understand

he's beyond everything

[warm igloo]

He's likely talking to beings we cannot see

[mighty parcel]

Interesting thing: The Knight’s Shade has a head that looks like the Knight’s mask

[warm igloo]

That explains why cults like in Grimm troupe or the citadel have some control over the mind

I guess pale masks do not interfere with the mknd then like hornet and the knight

[mighty parcel]

And why Brumm is literally a whole different person (Nymm) without his

[warm igloo]

The more pure masks if I may

[warm igloo]

Exactly

[mighty parcel]

I wonder if crests are tied to masks

[warm igloo]

One thing I don't understand is both the mask makers eyes. Does every creature look so creepy?

[craggy smelt]

Hornet refers to them having some kind of extraordinary sight

they resemble Mr Mushroom when you see him up close, in fact...

[warm igloo]

Crests are more tied to a bugs soul and essence. Eva talks about expanding your nature referring to your skills you have "learned" from each crest you obtain

For example, the creta of the reaper taught hornet the skills a reaper used to obtain more silk from the "rain" and utilized it in her combat as a perk

[mighty parcel]

So about crests

• Hunter: Hornet’s natural crest
• Reaper: Taken from a dreg catcher
• Beast: Taken from a large, presumably non-sapient bug
• Architect: Taken from a large Cogwork, presumably the First Chorus
• Witch: Forced upon her by Greyroot

What bugs did the Wanderer’s and Shaman’s Crest come from?

[craggy smelt]

shaman crest probably came from shamans

[foggy stratus]

Dead pilgram and a dead Snail Shaman.

[craggy smelt]

just a guess

[sinful nimbus]

Bound yourself a new nature, aye? And from the shells of our ancestors, no less, all those many who've called these lands their own.

[whole holly]

hey, do you guys think that Jiji and Sula could be hermit crabs or similar species? also in your opinion do you guys believe that shaman/druid like species/character might appear in Sea of Sorrows DLC?

[foggy fractal]

I don't think so but never say never

[whole holly]

what question are you answering? second one?

[craggy smelt]

i don't really see Sula/Jiji as hermit crabbish

the guy in barnacle bay seems like one though

and maybe he's a shaman

seems like an elder-type

[whole holly]

they are weirdly designed to be shaman like, but clearly not molluscs

[whole holly]

i wonder if he will be interesting, barnacle bay needs more color after sands of karak lost it

[craggy smelt]

nuu, i love it being grey and murky

there can be color in other areas with lifeblood

[whole holly]

i don't want Lifeblood to be only reason why areas are colorful, then it would be like plasmified wormways which isn't really beautiful

[craggy smelt]

hard disagree

there's lots of potential for things like underwater caverns though, if the submersible has different places it can reach

[kindred ingot]

Plasmified Wormways is just ugly cuz there's not enough Lifeblood

[whole holly]

lol, you could say same about infection but lifeblood makes things monotone

[foggy fractal]

yeah

[whole holly]

i hope we don't get to travel underwater, if we do we should have diving bell for yet another abyss section /j

[whole holly]

ok, that's fair

[kindred ingot]

can the infection do THIS?

[whole holly]

that's very special case but theoretically yes, infected flies that power watcher knights can replicate that

[kindred ingot]

ah, yes, cuz this is just as beautiful as that

of course

[foggy stratus]

I feel that the color of infection doesn't allow for the same potential beauty of Lifeblood's color. It just comes off as a sickly color to me.

[kindred ingot]

that was probably the intention

[whole holly]

after playing the game sure, but generally orange is pretty color

[whole holly]

key words were can replicate, in previous sentence

[kindred ingot]

also dead Plasmified bugs look prettier than dead Infected bugs

[whole holly]

well, they look roughly same to me, infection is shaped to look more harmful than lifeblood and infected air makes it look like fumes but still, it is pretty subjective matter

[icy jewel]

i like butterfly so i hardcore agree

[kindred ingot]

well, in any case, "things that grow on cosmic horror-ly dead corpses" are very pretty

[whole holly]

plus it's not like we can prove which one is better, beauty is up to eye of beholder

[kindred ingot]

"flowers that grow on corpses are all the more beautiful, for being well-fed"

[icy jewel]

i mean if you think about it they both functionally are ways of extending the life of the infected individual

(tbf that point is a lot weaker with the infection but still a valid point)

[kindred ingot]

they're both things that extend the life of the dead and end the life of the living

[icy jewel]

i think its more of an inbetween state

like more of an undead

[kindred ingot]

they put the living and the dead in the same state of "half-death"

all equal to the eyes of the gods

the Haunting works in a similar way, with the difference being that it's reversable

[icy jewel]

ehhhhhhh equal is a bit of an overstatement, as one of the two isnt instantly lethal

[kindred ingot]

you can get rid of the Haunting even at its most destructive state, you can't get rid of the Infection or the Plasmification once it's gone far enough

[icy jewel]

lifeblood isnt lethal at all actually im pretty sure its more of a withdrawel and dependancy thing

[kindred ingot]

it killed (sorry, wrong word, I meant "become unresponsive") Zylotol

[icy jewel]

didnt he like overdose tho

[kindred ingot]

technically

yeah

but you can "survive" with the Infection if you don't overdose too

[icy jewel]

i always thought it was kinda like how hornet can also overdose if she takes too much lifeblood

[kindred ingot]

see: Sly, Bretta, Glowing Womb

[icy jewel]

i think thats just the early stages of infection though

[kindred ingot]

also Hunter eating multiple Infected bugs

[icy jewel]

okay but im pretty sure hunter is just built different

[kindred ingot]

he's a regular bug for all we know

just a particularly strong one

[icy jewel]

I always assumed it was implied he was soem kind of lesser deity of the hunt

certianly embodies it

and he knows too much about literally everyone

[kindred ingot]

he has mortal siblings

[icy jewel]

are they specifically siblings or just relatives

i geniunely forgor

[icy jewel]

well damn

i guess he geniunely is just built different then

the hell

[kindred ingot]

he's the last survivor of his family, perhaps even his species

a recurring theme in Hollow Knight

[craggy smelt]

he does say he's a mortal bug that can't understand things like higher beings

[kindred ingot]

when does he say that?

[craggy smelt]

radiance entry

[fading shard]

oh hey

[kindred ingot]

I see

then he's mortal

not a god, not a deity, just a particularly strong bug

[craggy smelt]

yeah

there seem to be bugs that aren't higher beings, but are just unusual in some way
like bardoon, hunter, mask maker, etc.

[fading shard]

I wonder if the hunter would try hunting a higher being

like idk the pale king or unn

if given the chance or not

[craggy smelt]

Gurr energy

[fading shard]

Listen he'd get turned into a pile of ash if he fought the pale king

and unn would just.......Idk spit on his face to death

[craggy smelt]

or become the 6th great knight

[kindred ingot]

Bardoon is a weird one
he's too wise and knowledgeable to be just some guy, but also explicitly states he's nothing out of the ordinary

[fading shard]

we don't even get any power statements about them

[craggy smelt]

yeah, 'mortal' can encompass a pretty wide range of dudes

[fading shard]

well yeah basically everybody is a mortal

with the exception of like 6 (,maybe 8 beings)

and a bunch of offspring

[kindred ingot]

any mortal bug would get turned into a pile of ash if they tried to fight a Higher Being

[fading shard]

well no with unn they'd be liquid

with the nightmare heart they'd be a burned corpse

[kindred ingot]

...that's what a pile of ash is

[craggy smelt]

i think unn would probably melt people, yeah

[kindred ingot]

I mean, acid

[craggy smelt]

she seems to have power over acid

[fading shard]

genuinely wish we got to know some of her powers

[kindred ingot]

White Lady would uh...

what does she even do

[craggy smelt]

something awful with roots

[fading shard]

loves her husband

and is his number one fan

that's what she does sashimi

[kindred ingot]

nothing Greyroot can't do then

[fading shard]

so I guess she'd just give a rant about the pale king

[kindred ingot]

(tho Greyroot might not be mortal)

[fading shard]

kill somebody by boredom

[fading shard]

greyroot and white lady are rather different

[craggy smelt]

Hornet is going to go back to Hallownest with Lace and there'll be white roots everywhere, infesting and puppeting people
"Here we go again!"

[kindred ingot]

I meant like, the root thing

[fading shard]

greyroot does weird parasite reincarnation thing

where she somehow becomes her baby

to continue living or whatever the christ is going on with that

whilst the white lady

just is really into her husband

[kindred ingot]

"Mother what are you doing??"
"Got hungry."

[fading shard]

again like all we get about unn is her just creating the entire ecosystem of greenpath

with a ton of different species

plants

and etc etc

basically creating a gigantic ecosystem

alongside a bunch of mosskin who worship her and consider her their mother

but like that has nothing to do with combat

[kindred ingot]

she also has SOUL powers and seemingly the ability to enter a bug's memories and give them stuff from them

nothing that could be used in a fight tho

[fading shard]

You can call them by he or they, I'm calling them by she

given it's unspecified

[craggy smelt]

I feel like that's a lot
even Radiance only seemingly created one species

but yes, it's not necessarily combat ability

[kindred ingot]

"I'm calling them by she"

[kindred ingot]

she lives in an acid lake and can spit stuff, she probably can do some acid spitting if she tries

[fading shard]

._. it's unspecified sashimi

[kindred ingot]

no I mean you just called it a "them" while you say you're calling it a "she"

it's a contradiction

[fading shard]

fair point

[fading shard]

I mean yeah that is a lot

[foggy fractal]

I think they're a she, but he could also be a they? Something tells me that she could also be a he

🤔

[fading shard]

listen with the pale king we at least get the privilage of like imagining his soul and light powers

[kindred ingot]

White Lady could probably inflict some heavy psychic damage if she tried hard enough

[fading shard]

because of like the pure vessel

so we can just imagine hte pale king doing some pure vessel moves

or doing some crazy light power stuff

[kindred ingot]

he can do basically anything Pure Vessel can do except the Void stuff

[fading shard]

like lazer beams

or honestly blinding people since apperently he can do that passively

I yet again am concerned how anybody did anything around him given that it hurt to look at him

becaus he was so radiant

[foggy fractal]

sun glasses

[fading shard]

I don't think they had sun glasses ._. or maybe they did

who knows

[kindred ingot]

maybe it's like the sun where it only hurts if you look at it for too long

[fading shard]

the white lady and unn just basically have nothing combat wise

[kindred ingot]

they can look at the Pale King for a few seconds while talking to him, but if they stare at him their eyes burn and they get temporarily blind

[foggy fractal]

maybe pk could lower how much light he was radiating?

[kindred ingot]

btw is his name really Pale King or is that just a title?

[fading shard]

he only get's called pale king once

honestly pale wyrm is used more often

[kindred ingot]

White Wyrm, as GMS refers to him as

[fading shard]

white wyrm, pale wyrm, dear wyrm. kinglight, godking

white king

[kindred ingot]

my personal hc is that White Wyrm refers to his Wyrm form and Pale King refers to his bug form

[foggy fractal]

I don't think he has a name like a parent would give to a kid, not that we know of at least

[kindred ingot]

and the regular bugs just called him "king" and stuff

[foggy fractal]

though I'm sure given his status and power he'd just choose whatever to go by

[kindred ingot]

cuz he was the only king and therefore there was no reason to call him anything else

[fading shard]

funnily enough he's the only character who is referred to as king

in the entire universe

even in other factions

[kindred ingot]

but for diplomacy purposes he'd use "Pale King"

[fading shard]

with land of storms

it's the gods

steel city it's the steel masters

[kindred ingot]

"Nightmare King Grimm"

[fading shard]

pharloom it's divine weavers and conductors

[fading shard]

p-p he's an exception

besides he's referred to as nightmare heart most of the time

[kindred ingot]

"Vengefly King"

"Crust King Khann"

[fading shard]

okay fine

you're right

[kindred ingot]

many such kings

[fading shard]

you made your point sashimi

fleasip

[foggy fractal]

now which king has the most aura

[fading shard]

the pale king quite literally is said to have the most aura

literally

we get the delicate flower

get compared to the pale king

and their pale auras

[kindred ingot]

Khann

[sinful nimbus]

Only a fool believes the void can be fashioned to do their bidding...

[foggy fractal]

Do I almost feel fear?

[fading shard]

Khann doesn't even have aura

he's got coral

[kindred ingot]

HK kings tierlist

[sinful nimbus]

agreeable

[foggy fractal]

I hope to see some more red bosses in dlc

[sinful nimbus]

Well I would bump everything down one tier except for vfk so PK could have his own tier

[foggy fractal]

I know I know I already have khann and karm

I need more red

[sinful nimbus]

your greed will be your downfall

[foggy fractal]

psh what are they gonna do

make the game green?

[kindred ingot]

and Trobbio, and Bell Eater, and Father of the Flame

[sinful nimbus]

always bet on purple fearless fox

[foggy fractal]

the great conchflies too

[kindred ingot]

nah, Khann is hard A and NKG is too auraful not to be S

[kindred ingot]

yeah true I always forget them

and Gurr, technically

[sinful nimbus]

woah woah lets not get crazy Khann doesn't have that much lore

[kindred ingot]

god I love Gurr
he deserved Strive

[fading shard]

I mean you could put the pale king in pale aura tier

[kindred ingot]

look at him

[foggy fractal]

hes balanced out by all that green though

[sinful nimbus]

Would have way more aura if it was more aquatic...

[foggy fractal]

if it was more... red coral gorge...

Do I almost feel red

[kindred ingot]

ok

[sinful nimbus]

True

[civic elm]

Fool is a king?

[fading shard]

now it's accurate

[civic elm]

Pale supermercy

[kindred ingot]

referred to as "King of Fools" by the Japanese and Simplified Chinese translations

[fading shard]

hear me out sashimi gun

[civic elm]

Why is vengfly king F. His kingdom was thriving

[fading shard]

against radiance

equals die

[civic elm]

And is still after his death

[fading shard]

'what kingdom

[kindred ingot]

of course

[civic elm]

Vengl
Flys everywhere

[fading shard]

in lore vengefly kings are just pack leaders of nests

[civic elm]

Also isnt this sthe role channel

[kindred ingot]

worst boss in HK1, perhaps even the entire series

[fading shard]

you see if the pale king had guns he'd beat the radiance

instead he had to use void

rooky mistake on his part

[kindred ingot]

zero aura, shitty design, Greenpath is ashamed of including his arena

[foggy fractal]

Only a fool believes the void can be fashioned to do their bidding...

🥶

[kindred ingot]

do I almost feel foolish?

[civic elm]

No it can

Pale king did that

Like many times

[fading shard]

listen just because the pale king did that doesn't mean hornet is gonna hate

with the journal entry

[foggy fractal]

and that's why people have been clowning this dialogue!!!

[fading shard]

she's gonna hate for the sake of hating

[kindred ingot]

but he wasn't smart enough to invent them and the Weavers are selfish assholes

[civic elm]

Yes

Btw is these steal soul

I didnt play steal soul

Got spoiled

[foggy fractal]

this dialogue? it ain't

[fading shard]

that is true sashimi

[kindred ingot]

it's the Wingmould Journal Entry

[civic elm]

Oh wingmoulds

I thoughr it qas the summoned saviour that I have beat 100 times and sick of

[fading shard]

She really be killing people for sport

rip green prince

or karmelita and all the surrounding caverns if hornet already has 3 hearts

[civic elm]

She just mercy killing

[foggy fractal]

hey I didn't kill him in my playthrough
W andy

[fading shard]

._. he didn't want her in his palace

she went against his desire

to be left alone

[civic elm]

But he was sick, and green

And gay

[kindred ingot]

kinda cool how Gurr mirrors Hornet's usage of tools and bug-killing tendencies, but everyone ignores that cuz his fight is shitty

[civic elm]

So she needed to free him out of his messery

[fading shard]

he's a cool character hopefully his fight get's improed

like how traitor lord did

[civic elm]

Trairor lord fight improved when?

[fading shard]

because he was green and gay T_T

[foggy fractal]

lifeblood dlc I think?

[kindred ingot]

please TC add Silksong: Plasmium and make Gurr's fight actually good

[foggy fractal]

w team cherry

[kindred ingot]

my kingdom for a decent Gurr fight

[civic elm]

Lets talk lore

[kindred ingot]

Gurr lore

[civic elm]

Yes

Why does he only appear to attack hornet after karmalita's heart is taken

[lone folio]

"no cost too great" I say as I throw rocks at TC headquarters to protest for a better gurr fight

[kindred ingot]

Gurr was hunting Hornet cuz Pale Beings are the most honorable prey and hunting one gives you divine right to rule

[foggy fractal]

😭 Gurr should've just hunted pale stag then! dumbass

[kindred ingot]

Green Prince did that first

[foggy fractal]

Shame

[civic elm]

Oh wait not then. When hornet meets karmalita

We onlt get the quest when hornet meet karamalita this is lore

[trail wagon]

Lies and truths must be discussed...
Stone will break and steel shall rust...
Caps and shells may fall to dust...
But Mister Mushroom readjusts...

Steel city confirmed

[kindred ingot]

cuz Karmelita aknowledges Hornet as a Pale Being, and now killing Hornet would be actually worth something cuz the current ruler would know it

[trail wagon]

Conversion Therapy

[kindred ingot]

you can't just kill a bug and call it a Pale Being, you gotta prove it

[trail wagon]

Already has been

[civic elm]

But he stole the hiding pilgrims stuff when horner met karmalita

[trail wagon]

Atp never

[lone folio]

This means that mister mushroom could be immortal 🤔

[kindred ingot]

yeah, to lure Hornet into his traps and tools

[trail wagon]

Probably is

He's the highest being

[kindred ingot]

it's all part of his plan

he's always two steps ahead

[lone folio]

Facts

[civic elm]

Ok so he was somewhere near the room when hornet was talking to karmalita then

Eeves dropping

[trail wagon]

I'm curious, what if there's a higher god who creates higher beings

[civic elm]

That is why he is an outcasr

[civic elm]

Teamcherry

[kindred ingot]

he's always watching
he can pinpoint the exact location of every bug in Far Fields /j

[trail wagon]

That's who Mr Mushroom is

[kindred ingot]

why are you tagging me on that

I'm talking about Gurr

[civic elm]

Mr mushroom is the predictable of the end

[trail wagon]

I think Mr. mushroom is not canon

[civic elm]

Mr mushroom is canon

[trail wagon]

Like

"Mr" is super out of place

[civic elm]

He only comes to a kingdom to witness its final moments

[trail wagon]

I don't know am uncertain therefore

I will continue

[civic elm]

His Silksong quesr pretty much explains him

[trail wagon]

Well

[civic elm]

Now since mr herald came grimm troupe should be on the way

[kindred ingot]

he's an outcast because of his pale spots, and Pale = Bad
he's trying to hunt Hornet cuz he wants to prove himself worthy of coming back to the Skarr tribe and ruling over them as the new Skarrsinger

[trail wagon]

Yeah, but his dialogues are non canon I think

Cause he references games that are not in the HK universe

[lone folio]

They are visions or whatever

[trail wagon]

Or perhaps it's supposed to be gibberish

How does Hornet understand him..?

[lone folio]

She knows all of the languages

[trail wagon]

She smartass

[kindred ingot]

(Pale = Bad specifically in Pharloom, that's Void Cult heritage and they had a stronger cultural influence in Pharloom)

[trail wagon]

Since when are the outcasts pale?

[civic elm]

I think the pale spot is just a thing the skar put on each other so they know who is not haunted

[trail wagon]

Isn't it just tan?

[civic elm]

Like the skars arent racist

[kindred ingot]

look at them

[trail wagon]

I have, I don't understand why they're supposed to be called pale

Just tan

[kindred ingot]

they don't look intentional
and the Unnamed Skarr says "our mark is no curse", so they don't put them on themselves

[trail wagon]

I think it's just a genetic variation

[kindred ingot]

cuz they look paler than regular

[civic elm]

Till sea of sorrows we cant theiorize deeply

[kindred ingot]

they be pale

[foggy fractal]

I don't think sos is gonna touch upon this but who knows

[civic elm]

Oh I am dumb

You can play music for the person that gives the red tool

And he will sing

I should have seen this before

They still hear some song

[trail wagon]

Mann

[kindred ingot]

my theory is that the mottled Skarr are outcast because their spots resemble paleness, and Pale = Bad in Pharloom

Pale = Bad because of the Void Cult cultural heritage

[trail wagon]

What does sea of sorrow have to do with them???

[kindred ingot]

it's a tradition that sticked until the present day

[civic elm]

Ants are everywhere

And going to the right you will see more of them

[trail wagon]

Why is pale bad? Since when?

[civic elm]

Most skars with molds needolin dialogue is
Strength... faded...
All for her...
The last, loyal... loved...
Why this way?

Mentioning karmalita

I still think marks are intentional

[kindred ingot]

Void Cult cultural heritage
there was probably an ancient Pale Being that a Pale Cult worshipped (possible explanation for all the Pale mask shards), and the Void Cult hated them cuz Void eats Soul
hating Pale Beings kept going even when the Void Cult died out, and killing Pale Beings stayed as a mark of honour, as seen by Green Prince stating that Palestag gave him divine right to rule

[kindred ingot]

Unnamed Skarr's Needolin dialogue says kind of the opposite

[civic elm]

It only says it is no curse

[kindred ingot]

also nothing in this dialogue states that the marks are intentional

[kindred ingot]

meaning it was seen as one

[civic elm]

Or even if they are haunted it has a benefit

[kindred ingot]

"my tattoo is no curse" makes no sense

also why would they mark themselves as pale?

[civic elm]

It contradicts the previous ones dialogue

As they want it this way

They might see it as a curse of being hunted

But it has a benefit

[kindred ingot]

they don't want it this way, they want it better

they don't want to be seen as a curse

[civic elm]

Welp I get what you mean

But my fantasy brain hopes for more

[kindred ingot]

also this implies the Mottled Skarr are all part of the same group of bugs, since Mottled Skarr (the guy) dies right before Unnamed Skarr shows up to say this

[trail wagon]

Uhhh.. i see no evidence of that tbh

[kindred ingot]

they're united by their oppression and are trying to become the oppressors (as seen by Gurr trying to become ruler)

[kindred ingot]

I'm basing this opinion on what an actual irl archivist said after analyzing Silksong
I'm not smart enough to explain her thought process but I can give you the link to the video if you want

[trail wagon]

Okie, would be lovely

[trail wagon]

I mean I see how this could also make sense, but I don't think the spots necessarily have to resemble anything. I find the explanation of it just being ableism/racism very logical and it works very well with the narrative

[kindred ingot]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o5BDWeyiRsg