sk-lore

[twin dragon]

Games like peakborne for example has the appropiate lighting for the feel and setting

[sinful nimbus]

so does e33

[twin dragon]

Does it change

depending on like the area and stuff

or is it always sunny

[sinful nimbus]

It does

[twin dragon]

Or in like specific moments

good to hear alr

my grandson will play it once i die

[sinful nimbus]

This is like the first area and an introduction to the main setting

[twin dragon]

Also with the character models themselves and stuff

but i might be stretching

Im used to games looking completely different

A recent example would be elden ring

[sinful nimbus]

characters look so cool

[twin dragon]

Those aren't dependant on the graphics that much, really

The designs are just good artistically that's it

[sinful nimbus]

I mean yea but I don't really know wym in that case

[twin dragon]

You can make a lot of things look very good if you know how to work around designing stuff with the engine and stuff

And yk, the designs conceptually themselves

Like bloodborne could make this and the game graphically didnt age that well

[sinful nimbus]

The characters do look very good

[twin dragon]

Well ill make sure to play it

someday

There's also a lot on detail on ebrietas herself

[sinful nimbus]

armored core graphics 😍

[twin dragon]

yeah that one does look very unique

fromsoftware's art direction in general is peak

and their engine also allows these games to keep their charm while looking peak

[sinful nimbus]

pray it loads cuz its peak asf

[twin dragon]

now it does

wtf

goofy ass movement

[river garnet]

just a reminder

Off-topic conversations like greetings, comparisons and small talk are allowed, but please move in-depth conversations to ⁠off-topic or ⁠hk-general that would take away from proper Silksong discussion.

[sinful nimbus]

no one talking bout silksong I don't really see why offtopic would harm the channel if its allowed in #sk-discussion and #hk-discussion too

[twin dragon]

truth nuke

[whole holly]

i have lore/prediction based question about sea of sorrows(there is nothing else to discuss)

do you guys think Sea of Sorrows will introduce an Old Heart/Higher Being

[twin dragon]

Yeah

[coral mural]

i hope we get more lifeblood

it's really interesting

[twin dragon]

they made lifeblood lifeslop

cuz its infection now

[whole holly]

i hope we get other stuff too

[twin dragon]

Its not even different unlike the haunting

[coral mural]

radiance but instead of orange it's blue

[whole holly]

i mean symptoms/stages of it are reversed

[twin dragon]

[sinful nimbus]

Lifeblood dream higher being seems likely

[whole holly]

Infection is dreamborne that first affects mind then body, Lifeblood spreads by Liquid contamination, affects body then mind

[sinful nimbus]

I hope they introduce a use for the 4th heart to fix the Karmelita/Green Prince situation idk about an entire new one

[whole holly]

Haunting just imposes Grand Mother Silk's will by silk

with some side effects

[twin dragon]

Nah lwk the gp situation doesnt rlly imply much

[twin dragon]

I mean

Not actually true

the haunting makes a soup with gms and the bug's memories

Oh and also revives stuff because soul and bullshit

[sinful nimbus]

It implies that Hornet is evil but we already knew that

[twin dragon]

Yeah

now hornet turns into an ecologist

[sinful nimbus]

still bad writing

[twin dragon]

by saving SoS from plastic god

[coral mural]

Plasmified Vessel

[whole holly]

memories are not really intended effect, but rather a consequence

[sinful nimbus]

https://tenor.com/view/anton-ego-gif-9709800945809453150

[whole holly]

people in hk-lore hated this before release of silksong

[sinful nimbus]

wym before

[whole holly]

when i asked about Plasmified Vessel they said it was unlikely because Lifeseeds don't behave like Lightseed and Lifeblood doesn't reanimate bugs(which was technically true before release of silksong)

i am just happy to know that it is entirely plausible

[sinful nimbus]

true

[coral mural]

speaking of vessel

why does their head look like it's filled with cement

[sinful nimbus]

Its hollow

That's jus the back of its head

[whole holly]

Lifeseeds could technically behave like Lightseeds, we just don't really know because of gameplay limitations

[twin dragon]

No it quite literally unites the bug's mind with gms'

[whole holly]

internal cranium-like structure, it is supposed to be hollow, i would add slightly more shade in it personally

[twin dragon]

I would argue its hornet being hornet and she's trying to cope go gilly about the fact she's caused environmental devastation but im giving hornet too much credit

[whole holly]

yea but gms's will dominates in hivemind, bugs who resist it have will to resist it

[twin dragon]

Somewhat

also reliant on a physical connection

to gms

Its a big giant web

[whole holly]

wdym somewhat , it is the intention brochacho

[sinful nimbus]

I would argue its Hornet killing a grieving widower because she's evil

[twin dragon]

Gms doesnt really order these bugs shit she just thinks and the bugs act

[twin dragon]

Gp kinda jumps hornet there while being all good and dandy elsewhere but yeah

[sinful nimbus]

uh yeah cuz he told Hornet to leave like 3 times and she didn't 🥴

dying to clover dancers doesn't even kill her

[twin dragon]

Lwk zero reaction when she enters the dream

[sinful nimbus]

she wanted to kill Green Prince

[twin dragon]

Hornet the evil V

[twin dragon]

yk

dlcs add extra dialogues

and stuff

thats not reliant on the main content

like they did with grimm troupe

so there's hope

[whole holly]

what do you think will is? Hornet dialogue with the Second Sentinel: "You believe me haunted, a slave to the pale threads? I think you are more perceptive than that. My Silk is my own, as is my will."

[sinful nimbus]

meet potential DLC
0 slabfly entries changed
0 retcons fixed
7 fishing sidequests in barnacle bay

[whole holly]

Envoy Hunter's Journal entry: "Bugs like these crossed the caves to bring me to Pharloom. I cut down many before my capture. Then I had thought them minded and cunning. Now I can see the singular will that haunts them all." as well as this

[twin dragon]

Tbf yeah you're right but the method of imposing it isn't quite the same

[sinful nimbus]

its been 8 months lose hope on them changing ts 😭 🙏

[twin dragon]

like you can see the radiance's thoughts on bugs

[whole holly]

i mean Radiance is really different on method, like i said it is dreamborne, so i guess we mostly agree and disagree on semantics

i hope crest we get isn't a alchemist crest, even though it probably will be, i want something more nautical themed

[twin dragon]

Gms's control is also tied to dreams technically

it relies on the bugs mind and memory

[sick tinsel]

how would that work

[twin dragon]

its just much more subtle

as if those thoughts were part of the bug instead of being directly imposed

[whole holly]

sure but it is mostly physical

[craggy smelt]

i want repeatable wishes - gather X bits, kill X enemies in this area, etc.
cozygame busywork slopquests

[twin dragon]

The connection is physical but the thing itself is mind-based

[whole holly]

i want mariner crest, or seafarer crest, or something

[twin dragon]

Fish 6 crests

[twin dragon]

nevah

[craggy smelt]

salty dog crest

[sinful nimbus]

I liked broodfeast maybe I can't talk

[sick tinsel]

shrimp crest

[craggy smelt]

what would the nautical crest even allow, gameplay wise

[whole holly]

yea that's because dream is conflated with memories by seen and dream realm is space between body and soul(which can occur in silk form)

[twin dragon]

Well there you go

[sinful nimbus]

Hornet makes all the enemies slippery with bubbles like mizutsune

[twin dragon]

Some quests were lwk fun

[craggy smelt]

shade dash but you become water instead

[sick tinsel]

monster hunter reference 😳

[twin dragon]

Mainly because the enemies are great

[sinful nimbus]

https://tenor.com/view/monster-hunter-wilds-uth-duna-truth-nuke-patrick-star-squidward-gif-1889848931976865018

[whole holly]

then we are in agreement

[twin dragon]

Does this mean gms's strands are her braincells

[whole holly]

Sharp Wave

[craggy smelt]

Sharpe Wave

[whole holly]

i mean, GMS is mostly silk, with exception of her legs which are metal and barely part of her

i hope Steel Assasin Sharpe wasn't behind PK's death

[twin dragon]

It is fitting for pk to be dead because of his own regret

So i hope they dont have sharpe kill him

[twin dragon]

Her body isnt silk its js regular ish bug body i'd say

[sinful nimbus]

sharpe upscale mmm

He meddled with void it would make sense

[whole holly]

they are in-game assets

[sinful nimbus]

Imagine an emotional moment where Hornet finds White Lady compressed

[craggy smelt]

that would be too funny

[whole holly]

why is GMS's and Eva's halo/crown things similar?

it feels weird

[craggy smelt]

Eva was built to be an artificial replacement for GMS

the Weavers tried to make their own god

[twin dragon]

True

its weird

tbf

how is she like that in the abyss

[whole holly]

void-stained body or just regular shadows or mix of both

[twin dragon]

That's likely exposed when binding tbf

Like when binding her very fiber is getting sucked in

[fresh ore]

guys can someone explain lore of Widow

[sinful nimbus]

She seems to be a weaver that remained loyal to Grand Mother Silk even after the other weavers rebelled so she was mutilated as punishment

So her face's outer shell was ripped off and pins were lodged into her back so she couldn't produce silk anymore, but she can guide her mothers silk by strumming music on it

[near jasper]

"Ballsack gms isnt real she can't Hurt you"
Ballsack gms:

[whole holly]

you could just have said yarnball or something

[sick tinsel]

she turned to phantom lol

[twin dragon]

why do you imagine ts as a ballsack

[near jasper]

Brain tumors

[fresh ore]

Thanks, new to skong lore so gotta learn it all

[whole holly]

everyone if you are also a fan of other franchise's lore, what similarities do you see in Silksong's and other media's lore?

[whole holly]

personally i think Heart of the Woods(from Adventure Time:Fionna and Cake) is similar to Palestag even in lore

also Hornet is last of her tribe just like Aang from Avatar the Last Airbender

[twin dragon]

The whole citadel silk immortality stuff with bloodbornes healing church and old blood

[whole holly]

i haven't played Bloodborne

[twin dragon]

go and do it then

duh

[whole holly]

i don't feel like it, i will have yet another game to finish

silksong and hollow knight undertale, oneshot are only games i have finished, also i really like 2d! it is so stylish sometimes

[twin dragon]

true

[somber meadow]

Hollow knight: simpson = hks

[whole holly]

Hollow Knight : Pablo is actually in works, can't wait for release

[sick tinsel]

what about zoteboaT

[sick tinsel]

i agree, and all of these are peak lol

[kindred ingot]

this has lore implications, I just know it

[kindred ingot]

the areas seem to be ordered by which Old Hearts rule over them, and Verdania is not included cuz there are no Fleas in Verdania due to it being destroyed
notice how the Mosslands were left out, and Moss Druid coincidentally has dialogue talking about such a case

(Ducts was also left out, which is odd but also means Vog is undetectable to herself)

(but most importantly, it means Ducts is a lawless land without a god)

[midnight reef]

...or by progression?

[kindred ingot]

if it were by progression then Bilewater (act 2 area) wouldn't be with Sinner's Road (act 1 area)
also why would it be by progression? at that point in the game you can just go to any area freely

[midnight reef]

The only one that doesnt make much sense in Sinners Road, but thats the only outlier

[kindred ingot]

also Sands of Karak (act 2) and Blasted Steps (act 1)

[midnight reef]

Bilewater is act 1 acessable, pretty easily

Sands isnt, fair

[kindred ingot]

and Mount Fay (act 2) and the Slab (act 1)

[midnight reef]

slab isnt an act 1 area

yes, you can go to the slab in act 1- no thats not its real place in progression

[kindred ingot]

the whole kidnapping arc is act 1

[midnight reef]

You, under normal circumstances, only get to the slab in act 2, though

[kindred ingot]

I mean, you can only explore most of the Slab when you get kidnapped, which is act 1

[midnight reef]

Bilewater is a single breakable wall

[kindred ingot]

most of Bilewater is locked behind Faydown Cloak

[midnight reef]

fair

I just think that "its ordered by the old hearts" makes no sense

when its also just as simply "its labled by rough physical location/features"

[kindred ingot]

the only outliar to that is Wormways, which should be uh..................................................................................... flealess

[midnight reef]

the Midlands includes Greymoor, Bellhart, and Shellwood, which, if you decide to lump Verdania in with Greymoor here, makes it the domain of 2 old hearts and hurts the theory

[midnight reef]

The Wormways are full of bones

thats the majority of the area, even :3

[kindred ingot]

yeah but we don't generally lump Verdania in with Greymoor because that'd be wrong

[kindred ingot]

the majority of the area is Weavenest Karn

[midnight reef]

what

I mean, yeah?

But I fail to see how thats related?

[kindred ingot]

Wormways is weird

yes, it is full of bones, but it is both untouched by Skarr and really far away from the other bone areas

and the bones there are just worm bones

[midnight reef]

no, the rocks there are also bone

the Moss in the Moss Grotto? Guess what it grows on ;3

Bone!

[kindred ingot]

yeah but Mosslands isn't included in the maps

[midnight reef]

Yes, its part of the Bonelands

because its also bone

[kindred ingot]

if this little guy didn't exist we wouldn't be having this discussion

[kindred ingot]

it kinda isn't

[midnight reef]

take a wild guess as to why

[kindred ingot]

no fleas

which is boring

[midnight reef]

Yep. So would they list that?

[kindred ingot]

no, ofc not

[midnight reef]

Despite them almost certainly being part of that group?

[kindred ingot]

but WHY are there no fleas there?

[midnight reef]

Its a highly populated area

And the Grotto is outside of the Citadels sphere of influence

[kindred ingot]

the only area specifically mentioned not to be ruled by a strong power doesn't appear in the maps that seem to be grouped by which strong powers ruled each area
that can't just be a coincidence

[kindred ingot]

so is Wormways and there are fleas there

I mean,

flea

[midnight reef]

Its not though

look at the entrance to the Wormways, after the Craggler room

thats an elevator shaft

like you see in Shellwood

[kindred ingot]

oh yeah, that

still, why would the fleas care about the Citadel's sphere of influence?

[midnight reef]

Dunno

XD

The real answer for no fleas in the Moss Grotto is because its the start of the game

[kindred ingot]

there's Bonegrave

[midnight reef]

Bonegrave and Bonebottom, even Mosshome, all see trafic still

[kindred ingot]

and the upper section

[kindred ingot]

wdym trafic

[midnight reef]

pilgrims passing through

[kindred ingot]

that doesn't seem to be a problem, as this flea is right were two pilgrims are

(ignore that this flea is a weird one, there are more fleas in pilgrim spots)

[celest oar]

what is this?

[novel plover]

People debating lore that was and will never be fully explained

[celest oar]

OH

k

[novel plover]

It is fun to watch these debates

[stoic harbor]

I got kidnapped in act 2

[cyan hollow]

i stayed away from the stinky flies

[swift needle]

Looks like it's upon me... To save the sea of sorrow society!

MAY 16TH RELEASE

AND MY LIFE

IS YOURSSSSSS

TEAM CHERRY YOUR SON HAS RETURNED

[gentle marsh]

shaw

[sick tinsel]

what character we can say is the closest in skill to hornet

that isnt lace or phantom

[foggy stratus]

Karmalita.

Or maybe Shakra.

[nimble parcel]

vespa?

[foggy stratus]

Maybe her as well.

[sick tinsel]

yeah

[foggy stratus]

But Karmalita is like explicitly said to be on her tier by Hornet.

[sick tinsel]

she is no longer on her level

[stark ocean]

isnt karmalita stronger than shakra

shakra gotta be down one level than hornet

[exotic pendant]

shakra: "too bad we were born too late to challenge such strong warriors"

so there's no saying for sure

[foggy stratus]

"Warrior cartographer of a tribe from Pharloom's edge. Her skills in battle could challenge the kingdom's best.

She has lived a mere fraction of my lifetime and yet her rings prove a ferocious match. As gifted a warrior as I have ever encountered, and one I am fortunate to call a friend."

[exotic pendant]

maybe shakra will exceed hornet

but that's just a guess

[foggy stratus]

She'll die of old age before that.

[stark ocean]

and she's only the cartographer, imagine how strong her master is

[exotic pendant]

uh, give her 2 bug years. after that if she doesn't succeed then, no chance

[long leaf]

i may have missed the game's explanation but... is there any in-universe reason why binding removes the maggots but not the plasmium?

[whole holly]

what do you think about atla , is she the first sinner @paper mantle

[paper mantle]

I think yes

Atla is called "Weaver of Time"

[whole holly]

who is Widow? she had to have had name before widow

[paper mantle]

Eva is in her own nest

The nest of Atla

@whole holly You saw when we played the needolin near an area of Atlas nest?
Figures of a weaver appear, do you have an image?

[whole holly]

i will search on wiki

[paper mantle]

Widow is one of the first Weavers, whose mask was torn off and who took refuge in the City of Steel

[whole holly]

sadly, image is not available

[paper mantle]

:(

[whole holly]

it is okay

[whole holly]

i remember when i listed names of all weavers and tried to match it to weaver burial spires, but it doesn't work because there more burial spires than there are known weaver names

[twin dragon]

Nope she isn't

The one that was found in city of steel is described to be part weaver

[paper mantle]

🤔

[paper mantle]

Didn't it mention something about "putting it into service with stakes"?

[twin dragon]

Yeah that was done likely in the city of steel

[whole holly]

staked to service which might just mean forced into slavery, rather than physically staked with pins

[twin dragon]

Widow and her stakes aren't really related to what she does either

[whole holly]

yea, that is true

[paper mantle]

Oh, ok

[foggy stratus]

Plasmium at that point is in Hornet's blood stream(or her equivalent blood stream) while the Maggots arent.

[whole holly]

what are we expecting in Sea of Sorrows lorewise, i am expecting at least Weaver Carvings two more at least! i know it is unlikely but still

[twin dragon]

dialogue fixes

[foggy stratus]

Slab removal.

[twin dragon]

Nah fym slab is fire

the entries js need to be rewritten

[whole holly]

i mean i wanted some answer that's not predictable and more of lore prediction

[tawdry flare]

Act 3 removal 🙏

[whole holly]

why, though? Act 3 hate is so forced

[tawdry flare]

No it’s not

[whole holly]

it is in my opinion

[foggy stratus]

Heaven forbid we get more content smh.

[twin dragon]

It kinda is tbf

The void stuff makes sense it js needs to be incorporated better

[tawdry flare]

The burden of proof is on you. Lock in

[twin dragon]

no reason for the summoned saviour to be steel soul exclusive

[tawdry flare]

what if there was a VOID CULT

[whole holly]

well, people are forcing narrative

[twin dragon]

Well there is actually

[whole holly]

in Cut Content?

[twin dragon]

No

literally AC

[whole holly]

that's a civilization, barely a cult

[twin dragon]

Ye but void void sahur

[whole holly]

Void Cult is literally the the Void after it is united

[sinful nimbus]

why are you in this channel if you don't like the lore

[twin dragon]

neither do you

son

[tawdry flare]

I want to watch it fall. I want to see it burn

[paper mantle]

?

[sinful nimbus]

all i see is you complaining about the lore it lowk brings the mood down, could you write something better?

[twin dragon]

[paper mantle]

Atla, Absolom, Cindril, Karn, Murglin, Camora, Keelal and Widow

[sinful nimbus]

Camora and Keelal are likely the weaver spires of the region you find their effigy in (like Atla)

[twin dragon]

Atla being first sinner is stretching it a bit but its entirely possible

[sinful nimbus]

Its not a big stretch really there's a pattern of weaver effigies describing traits of the weaver spires of their respective areas

[whole holly]

i also want to count Askar even though Askar only exists in filenames, i believe they will return in future content and i believe that Cauldron Weaver Burial Spire was originally part of Mount Fay Broken Weavenest

[sinful nimbus]

With the added evidence of First Sinner being the first or one of the first to hone weaver runes which Weavenest Atla would've specialized in

[whole holly]

i know it is unlikely, but it is just a headcanon

[twin dragon]

Generally every weavenest has rune tech

The aspect that calls to me most of the theory is the fact that runes were used to store info

[sinful nimbus]

But only one of them specialized in it

[twin dragon]

and yk

atla is described to be a historian

[paper mantle]

Weaver Burial Spire?

[twin dragon]

It wouldnt be too far to say that the historian discovered the truth first

[sinful nimbus]

Yeah the historian part is the most compelling evidence and what I was talking about here

[twin dragon]

Sans is pilby

[sinful nimbus]

Bone Bottom effigy

Carving of Camora, Weaver of healing. A prayer is etched upon it.

"Weaver, heal my sons, their fearful hearts, their limbs that shake at the climb to come. We pray, gift but a glimmer of your strength, that when we stand before your divinity, you see bugs shed free of fear."
Mosshome Weaver tablet
Weaver of Pharloom.
By grace you warded. By thread you healed.
For your favour, eternal, we offer our song.

Shellwood effigy

Carving of Keelal, Weaver of the path. A prayer is etched upon it.

"Blessed Weaver, lady of grace, you who see our sin, our frail shells, our voices weak, and still offer your protection. How great your mind to care so much for ones so lowly."
Shellwood Weaver tablet
Sister, spider, husk bound to branch,
Watch over these bugs, passing safe,
Warded by fear,
No longer your meal.

Slab effigy

Carving of Atla, Weaver of time. A prayer is etched upon it.

"By grace of your example, and our history held full in mind, our song is yours, as your name is sacred. Weaver Atla, may you be praised eternal."
First Sinner entry
Ancient Weaver condemned for a transgression lost to time.

[foggy fractal]

https://hollowknight.wiki/w/Weaver_Burial_Spire

[paper mantle]

Thank you!

[whole holly]

well, yea

[whole holly]

that ones are quite easy to solve, Cauldron and Greymoor weaver are somewhat challenging

[paper mantle]

Who is Greymoor weaver?

[whole holly]

i think Murglin? but that has it's issues, fact is we are missing more weaver names

[paper mantle]

[whole holly]

it has same chains that are present in Mount Fay i think

[spark valve]

can't be identified, camora is the one in mosshome, keelal is the one in shellwood, absalom is presumably the one in abyss, karn is probably the one in wormways, the others are unclear. Atla may be first sinner

[twin dragon]

Ngl they had weavers interacting with the abyss and they did nothing with it

[whole holly]

that's what i said as well

[dusk moon]

yo just asking,
i dont mean to be rude to a specific group of people but
why is lost lace black?

[spark valve]

had to put a silk skill down there somehow

[spark valve]

you're not funny and should probably not continue the bit

[spark valve]

it also does sort of account for why the diving bell exists

sort of

[sinful nimbus]

true

[dusk moon]

im literally js asking

i havent beaten silksong yet

did u even read what i said😭

[twin dragon]

Oh then beat silksong

[twin dragon]

ye but through that they could've made the void more involved with the overall story

[sinful nimbus]

ew

[twin dragon]

💔

What if the weavers actually tried messing with it but couldn't control it and left it there

[dusk moon]

its gonna take hours.
also i noticed on some screenshots that's there's like some void thing on the floor
was the void involved with lace's transformation?

[twin dragon]

beat silksong

[sinful nimbus]

yes

[dusk moon]

just tell me

was the void involved or no

its a yes or no question

[whole holly]

that is true, like there is no synergy with story and the world-building

[whole holly]

sure it was

[dusk moon]

finally, thanks

[whole holly]

no problemo

[twin dragon]

It makes sense to be there but it doesnt make sense for it to be introduced at that point

Like if the weavers p much tried everything to fuck gms over tc might've aswell let us known the void was part of the plan

[whole holly]

exactly, but it's unique flora and fauna and envoriment in abyss and little tidbits of lore about AC and Weavenest Absolom was great

[whole holly]

why didn't weavers come up with plan shamans came up with on spot? are they stupid?

[foggy stratus]

They're not concerningly obsessed with the Void like Pharloom Shamans were.

[whole holly]

still makes a great trap, though

[foggy stratus]

Or they tried to but the Weaver they sent to retrieve Void got c o n s u m e d

[twin dragon]

there's NOTHING on absolum

[twin dragon]

Shamans arent generally obsessed with the void they just love powerful shit

[whole holly]

we know she was doing random sidequests

[foggy stratus]

So they decided it was better to just study it.

[twin dragon]

to get absolutely nothing out of it btw

[whole holly]

this is more true, they are fixated with knight's abilities

[foggy stratus]

Something something family's obsession Something Something.

[twin dragon]

yeah

I like giving explanations or possible meanings on stuff before trying to call it a retcon

or bad writing

[sinful nimbus]

all 3 are true

why can't we all just get along?
they're interested in void as a possible power source and that's a retcon and that's bad writing too ❤️‍🩹

[twin dragon]

I don't really see it as bad writing as it would make sense for them to know about this stuff

Like hk shamans have AC totems and shit

Shamans feel like they would've been connected to the void but TC did a last minute change

[sinful nimbus]

oh I just don't like void in silksong idrc about the shamans being interested in it specifically

[craggy smelt]

I do think it would have been cooler if there was some sign that the Snare Setter had been designed based on Weavenest Absolom's research
maybe even something you find after the fact in Absolom itself
like the Weavers were trying to build a Voidsnare and didn't complete it in time or abandoned it out of fear of the Void
and when you show the tool to the shamans they're all cagey about it - "Oh yeah, we see what they were doing here, we can make this work, we just need to juice it up."

[twin dragon]

Snare setter isn't really designed to like

open a portal

thats shamans job

[craggy smelt]

yeah, I'm saying I would tweak that - make it meant to be a snarespell that summons the Void to do the snaring

there's more about silksong's story I would tweak compared to hk

[foggy fractal]

continue listing them

🤔

[twin dragon]

Maybe like

Not make snare setter void involved

but absolum being abandoned due to the fact that it was too dangerous

and it being written somewhere

[craggy smelt]

some weaver thoughts on the Void would have been interesting

[craggy smelt]

some of the bigger changes I was thinking about was trying to roll the Old Heart stuff into the Snare Setter quest - like instead of going to the shamans and getting globs of Soul, you need the Old Hearts

[twin dragon]

Nah old hearts are thematically good

for where they are

they're just kinda shallow

and that's their issue

[craggy smelt]

I was thinking about the change as making Act 3 be readily available, and not gated behind a quest
like
Act 1: Pharloom - from start to Greymoor
Act 2: Ascent - from Greymoor to the Citadel
Act 3: Citadel - the Citadel to the end

you can visit the Abyss earlier with the Diving Bell, finding only ruins
and you keep basically only Red Memory and the final Abyss Boss gated behind the final quest

sort of steam-lining everything

[twin dragon]

It would make act 3 waaaay too short

imo

And the quests arent that unintuitive as yk, changing is the whole point of hornet's character

[craggy smelt]

get these incredible deals out of here, shadecat

[twin dragon]

Please, reproduce on yourself

[sinful nimbus]

?

"the character has character growth therefore I need to do sidequests"

no one thought that

[foggy fractal]

w silver bells

[craggy smelt]

I feel like Act 3 isn't super long as it is, if you do everything you can before finishing Act 2
compared to how much you can do in Act 2 anyway

[twin dragon]

Misreading moment

[sinful nimbus]

Crawbug Clearing really showcased off her incredible and dynamic character

[twin dragon]

Tbf the quest giver is creg

greg

whoever the fuck that is

[sinful nimbus]

craig

[twin dragon]

and the point is that she bonds witb pharloom's inhabitants

[craggy smelt]

kreeg

she's helpful, it's true

[sinful nimbus]

how was I supposed to know that was mandatory for true ending though

[twin dragon]

UNLESS you're a fly

[foggy fractal]

Creige

[twin dragon]

Iirc its not

you can skip it

there's like

a certain amount of points you need to get

[sinful nimbus]

as far as I was concerned I was playing a game and I noticed that this part of the game wasn't that fun and didn't reward me so I didn't do it

[twin dragon]

it should get reduced though

[sinful nimbus]

No the crawbug quest is specifically mandatory

[twin dragon]

Cuz creige offers you beer

and you cant skip that

[craggy smelt]

doesn't matter if its a miserable grind, you do everything

you don't skip it

it's rude

[twin dragon]

Nah craws are alright

bro it takes like

3 mins max

[craggy smelt]

i was fine to kill craws because i hate craws (also i love the craws)

[sinful nimbus]

Sure but its not the only mandatory quest and there are a lot of unfun mandatory quests you need to do which add up

[twin dragon]

For example?

[sinful nimbus]

Its also not really communicated that is mandatory cuz all of these are under the side quest part of the menu

[sinful nimbus]

Every donation quest and Trail's End are mandatory

[twin dragon]

Trail's end was fun imo

[sinful nimbus]

And 17ish quests are required

[twin dragon]

cuz shakra's a good character

but yeah donation sucks ass

[sinful nimbus]

Trail's end is just a cutscene bro

[twin dragon]

bro

i need the fucking money

[twin dragon]

Idgaf its a good one

[foggy fractal]

grand reeds time!

[craggy smelt]

get 'em Andy

[sinful nimbus]

Its OK I like Shakra but there was no reason for ts to be mandatory and it only bogs down repeat playthroughs and makes it harder to figure out how to progress on a first one

[fading shard]

who are you guys talking about

flick

[twin dragon]

Giving closure on shakra's search is a good enough thing to make mandatory

[craggy smelt]

i think it was criege, the bartender

[sinful nimbus]

she's the map maker bro

buying all maps wasn't mandatory in HK

i dgaf about her 😭 🙏

[fading shard]

ohcome on star

[craggy smelt]

are you saying you also didn't care about cornifer?

[fading shard]

Shakra is objectively a really well written character

and cornifer was a cool character

[sinful nimbus]

I like Shakra and Cornifer but I don't really care about either of them enough for them to play a major role in getting true ending

[twin dragon]

And this time an actual character unlike cornifer

[sinful nimbus]

they're both fine

[twin dragon]

Shakra mogs

[sinful nimbus]

I care about Cornifer a bit more but that's because I like that type of personality more

[whole holly]

Iselda Mogs

[twin dragon]

hm hmhmhmhmhmmmhmmm

[fading shard]

She is a better character

but cornifer is an actual chracter too

he's pretty solid

[twin dragon]

Yeah im baiting

He doesn't have much going on for him doe

[sinful nimbus]

Only Dirtmouth resident to not be xenophobic towards the grimm troupe

Well Jiji just says stranger danger ig

But Elderbug Iselda and Sly are bums

[fading shard]

I'm pretty sure it's supposed to be the narrative yk

giving fair warning

or trying to imply they aren't all that good

[twin dragon]

Tbf they do have that weird evil aura idk

the big red flaming tent

[sinful nimbus]

that's their aesthetic but grimm is a chill guy

The Knight and Ellina know what's up

[twin dragon]

He's chill but he came for your soul

Ts is like having a drink with death

[sinful nimbus]

he doesn't want to kill anyone

[twin dragon]

He's gonna take whats left of the kingdom

[sinful nimbus]

Oh noooo he's removing the scary thoughts from dead bugs in the kingdom 😨

[twin dragon]

Bro is lwk cleaning up whats left

dirthmouth would fade too ig

[sinful nimbus]

he's like a scavenger

[kindred ingot]

isn't he like, a cult leader

[sinful nimbus]

Grimm Troupe isn't really a cult

Primarily for the fact that its just one guy in actuality

+Brumm and Divine

Not like Dirtmouth residents would know any of this though

They're just bums

[whole holly]

other Grimmkin like Novices are also extension of Nightmare Heart, right?

[sinful nimbus]

yeah

[kindred ingot]

there's also all the Grimmkin

[sinful nimbus]

Those are just The Nightmare Heart

[whole holly]

it is weird that Unn is acknowledged for creating Mosskin, Rad for Mothkin and Grimmkin aren't known for being creations, they even look like constructs

[sinful nimbus]

Its The Nightmare Heart roleplaying with itself all the way down

[kindred ingot]

they do have a physical form tho

[whole holly]

most accurate statement about them is likely said by Jiji, she is most reliable narrator

[whole holly]

they are creations of NMH, i think it is said that they all are one

[sinful nimbus]

They're spectres though

White Lady says they're all the same

[kindred ingot]

damn, there's Grimm dialogue scattered everywhere

[whole holly]

oh, white lady says that, i wouldn't argue with her

[whole holly]

are Grimmsteeds also creations of NMH or separate species? they resemble willow a little

[sinful nimbus]

They might just be members of Willow's species who joined the troupe like Brumm and Divine

[kindred ingot]

does she?

[sinful nimbus]

"You may be all and one, clan and master"

[whole holly]

yea i will have to agree to that

[kindred ingot]

she's talking specifically to the Grimmchild here

[sinful nimbus]

"clan"

[kindred ingot]

which she clearly stated to be different than the Nightmare Heart

[sinful nimbus]

Grimmchild is also the heart the entire clan is

[kindred ingot]

she states that those two are not the same

[sinful nimbus]

No she does not

[kindred ingot]

Grimm and the Nightmare Heart are two different beings

[whole holly]

does this prove there is Nightmare Heart's Hivemind? why is everyone starting hiveminds except PK, WL and Unn?

[whole holly]

where?

[sinful nimbus]

No they are not read the dialogue

[kindred ingot]

I literally did tho

[sinful nimbus]

This doesn't mean they are separate entities, Grimm is literally the heart's vessel

[kindred ingot]

Grimm is the Heart's spawn just like the Knight is White Lady's spawn

[sinful nimbus]

Yeah grimm is a creation of the nightmare heart

[kindred ingot]

they do have some Hive Mind thing going on but they're two separate entities

[sinful nimbus]

This doesn't change the fact that she explicitly says there is no distinction between the clan and master

[whole holly]

i would say it is cycle, and clearly is implied to be, better analogy would be Greyroot and Twisted Child

[sinful nimbus]

But they aren't

[kindred ingot]

she says Grimmchild is both at that point in time

[whole holly]

wdym?

[kindred ingot]

it'd be weird to say Grimm was both the Master and the Clan itself, considering Brumm exists

but at that point in time, Grimmchild became the whole clan (implying Brumm and the others are dead)

[sinful nimbus]

The point is that the clan is all an extension of the nightmare heart

[sinful nimbus]

bro what

Divine literally doesn't die

[kindred ingot]

wdym what

[whole holly]

i can see your reasoning, but star said Brumm, Grimmsteeds, Divine are no creations of NMH but bugs who joined clan

[kindred ingot]

Divine is very weird

[whole holly]

i got to go, bye guys have nice discussion!

[sinful nimbus]

She says that Grimmchild will grow up to be the Nightmare King and then goes on to say that it is both the clan and the master (the heart) because they are literally all the same which we are also shown through the events of the DLC

[kindred ingot]

even if I'm wrong, she just... stays there after the clan leaves. And then goes somewhere else

it seems like she's just hanging around for the love of the game

her mask isn't even complete, it's just half a mask

[sinful nimbus]

That's cool but I don't really see how its relevant

How do you even read this dialogue as saying that the entire clan has died

[foggy fractal]

star remind me of why hornet is bad for helping zylotol with lifeblood in wormways

🤔

[sinful nimbus]

She literally just says they are the same, "all and one, clan and master" as in all of them are the same entity

[kindred ingot]

cuz, well, the entire clan is gone, and we see Grimm dying

[sinful nimbus]

Lifeblood is bad news

She knows its bad news

[sinful nimbus]

Well yeah they're gone the ritual is complete they don't have any business in hallownest

[foggy fractal]

lowkey what if she never uses the simple key till act 3 when its already infected

[sinful nimbus]

Brumm notes that he's been in the ritual business for a while he probably didn't die

[sinful nimbus]

She's still worsening the wormways (and zylotol's) condition

[kindred ingot]

I mean, we don't know how long it's been since Grimm last did his thing

[foggy fractal]

man what an asshole we should cancel hornet

[sinful nimbus]

Hornet: Take it, sir, though what insight it will grant you I cannot say.

Have faith, dear assistant... After all this I understand... the greatest knowledge comes only from faith... faith in Plasmium.
This blood you have collected... sparkles... I see it! A glorious form... a glorious future, shimmering back at us...
Through consumption of the blood... we shall at last attain enlightenment...
For your reward... take the gland from within my shell... my gift to you.
I have no more need of it... and it shall grant you... unending reserves of Plasmium...
Yes... Plasmium. Pure... beautiful... Plasmium...

[sinful nimbus]

yeah but that doesn't really matter?

Brumm still implies he's done at least more than one ritual

[kindred ingot]

the clan being an extension of the Heart doesn't mean they're the exact same individual
they can still be separate entities but in some kind of Hive Mind, which is what I think is happening

[sinful nimbus]

okay but "all and one" means that all of them are one

"clan and master" means that the clan and grimmchild are the master

and if you look at the grimmkin they're all just nightmare essence ghosts you can see their masks in a hidden room and they're all chilling in the nightmare realm

grimm also says that the heart is his

they're just the same dude

[foggy stratus]

Extensions of the same "dude"*

[kindred ingot]

when does he say that

[sinful nimbus]

No difference

[foggy stratus]

Grimm is the Nightmare Heart but the Nightmare Heart isnt Grimm.

[kindred ingot]

an extension of a being can be different from the being itself, as seen with Brumm having a will of his own, and the Vessels and Void Constructs having a will that differs from the Void's

[sinful nimbus]

It is painful to defy the Master, but our harvest... it profanes this dark, quiet Kingdom. This once, I would see the Ritual fail.

[foggy stratus]

The Void isnt one specific will.

[sinful nimbus]

they're just different parts of the same whole

[foggy stratus]

Brumm is also not a part of the Nightmare Heart. Hes more so a servant of it.

[fading shard]

because she knows lifeblood is bad news and knew so from the get go

yet still did so

[sinful nimbus]

"My body is my brain but my brain isn't my body" what?

[kindred ingot]

it has something that resembles a will

[foggy stratus]

Grimm is part of the whole. The whole is the Nightmare Heart.

[sinful nimbus]

Grimm is its physical form

[kindred ingot]

more like the other way around

[sinful nimbus]

No Grimm is NMH's body

There's like no reason to separate the two

White Lady doesn't neither does Grimm himself

[kindred ingot]

Grimm is a specific part of the Nightmare Heart, not the whole

[twin dragon]

Its a god

larping as a cult

Peak

[kindred ingot]

she separates "clan" and "master" into two things that are, in that point in time, both Grimmchild

[twin dragon]

Except followers can join and shit

[sinful nimbus]

A clan is more than one person 🥴

She's speaking to the heart and saying that its the entire deal

[kindred ingot]

that's like saying your hand is your brain's body
your body has more to it

[foggy stratus]

Brumm and Divine...

[kindred ingot]

Grimm is just one aspect of the Nightmare Heart

[sinful nimbus]

Yeah the grimmkin

Which are said to be the same dude

[kindred ingot]

they're all aspects of the same thing, but they're each a different aspect and considering them as individuals is not wrong

[sinful nimbus]

They're all parts of the same whole its a meaningless distinction that big #hk-lore invented because they really hated the idea of grimm being a higher being

[kindred ingot]

like a hive
each bee is just an aspect of the hive, but considering each bee individually can be useful

[sinful nimbus]

It is when the game specifically breaks down that notion as does Grimm himself

[foggy stratus]

[sinful nimbus]

If bees were made of honey and vespa was the honey god who is representative of all honey ever and then we had white lady saying that vespa is the same as her hive and vice versa we wouldn't call them individuals either

Its like saying void tendrils are individuals post voidheart

They're literally just extensions of the knight

[kindred ingot]

the Nightmare Heart is like a queen bee, that creates little bees (the Grimmkin) to serve it
Grimm would be like a male bee trying to create another of himself to keep the cycle running
each of them have their role and act like different beings, just all working for the same higher purpose

[kindred ingot]

also that would just be correct

as seen in Silksong

[twin dragon]

The void was always segmented in weird ways

[sinful nimbus]

Silksong is a retcon in HK the void and TK were also stated to be the same entity

[kindred ingot]

in this essay, I will explain why Grimm is actually a wasp-

[sinful nimbus]

bees aren't all the same consciousness so bad comparison

[kindred ingot]

could you remind us which channel we're in?

[sinful nimbus]

idgaf if TC didn't think through one cutscene in silksong

it doesn't actually have lore implications

[foggy fractal]

TC also didn't think through a lot of the journal entries!!!

[sinful nimbus]

SOTV is literally purely for hype moments and aura

[kindred ingot]

the Voidheart is symbolic, it doesn't actually unite all of the Void into one singular will, that'd be stupid

[twin dragon]

I mean it could

depending what they follow up with

[sinful nimbus]

We were told that TK and the void were the same entity in HK lmao

[kindred ingot]

if that were true we'd just be able to control the Void Tendrils, which we can't

[sinful nimbus]

Also what?

[twin dragon]

Where

[sinful nimbus]

We uh do

HK fans play the game challenge

[foggy fractal]

how do you think the void/siblings got into the radiance fights

[kindred ingot]

we never control the Tendrils, or the other Shades, or any other Void Construct

[sinful nimbus]

Larp larp larp sahur

You actually just haven't fought Radiance or visited the abyss after getting void heart

[kindred ingot]

keyword all

[sinful nimbus]

Bardoon

[twin dragon]

True

but what if tk was js slashing the tendrils cuz angry

instead of it being a retcon

[kindred ingot]

this?

[sinful nimbus]

Its not really a retcon they just didn't think through a single cutscene that's not them changing the lore

[sinful nimbus]

single being

[twin dragon]

Js hype moments and aura

it really doesnt change anything

tk can still do wtv the fuck they want with the void

[sick tinsel]

it is true sea of sorrow is releasing this month ?

[twin dragon]

Even slash itself

[sinful nimbus]

no but iceman is

[foggy fractal]

we don't know

[kindred ingot]

yeah. All shades united into a single will
not all of the Void

[foggy fractal]

🥶

[sinful nimbus]

shades are void

[sick tinsel]

:(

[foggy fractal]

wheres that distinction made though

[sinful nimbus]

We are told that TK has control over the void we are shown it controlling the void and we have an NPC saying that the union is across a single being

[kindred ingot]

the Void is an endless living ocean, uniting all that into one guy just by remembering that guy's backstory is just stupid

[kindred ingot]

Silksong

[sinful nimbus]

Well then you don't like HK's narrative ig

That's not a real argument though

[foggy fractal]

well I say thats just the knight choosing to slash the tendrils what then

[twin dragon]

Yeah

[foggy fractal]

also tc makes stupid decisions all the time

look at slabfly journal entries

😭

[twin dragon]

it doesnt really change anything its js hype moments and aura

[sinful nimbus]

We are shown it controlling void tendrils in HK

[twin dragon]

which is fine

[kindred ingot]

and the Knight just "chose" to black-thread almost every bug in Pharloom? did the Knight just "choose" to kill Garmond and use him to try to kill Hornet? did the Knight just "choose" to use Lace to try to kill Hornet and then save both of them for no particular reason?

[twin dragon]

No

Likely tk just lets the void do its thing

as tk is essentially it

[kindred ingot]

then it's not a single will
there are different wills in the Void, and the Knight's is just the strongest

[twin dragon]

The void doesnt have a will

[kindred ingot]

then it can't do "it's thing"

[sinful nimbus]

blackthreading is a property of void consuming soul that's not something it could control with its will

[kindred ingot]

also

[sinful nimbus]

whether or not silksong retconned it is irrelevant to the original analogy though

that's how it was in the first game and that's what I was talking about this is a random side tangent

[kindred ingot]

considering how Garmond only turns hostile after being blackthreaded, it feels like it is

[twin dragon]

Thats not a will thats like a very limited degree of sapience

or sentience

[twin dragon]

Thats kinda what the haunting does

uhh

yk

[kindred ingot]

also Lace

[foggy fractal]

if you mean to say why the knight didn't do anything during act 3 besides the ending 🤷‍♂️ the out of universe explanation is that we wouldn't have a game to play then

[twin dragon]

The void kinda just lashes out and imprints upon anything it touches

it doesnt have a will on its own per say

[sinful nimbus]

that's just how the hauning works

and lace is hostile without the void

[twin dragon]

Yeah that's a limited degree of sentience

thats a furthering of the void's capabilities

[kindred ingot]

oh no wait it was addressed

[sinful nimbus]

void does have a will its just fractured before void heart

[twin dragon]

For js killing and destroying

[twin dragon]

Eeeh

kinda

the void seems to be looking for one because it can imprint upon bugs and stuff

[kindred ingot]

it knows how a lighthouse works

[twin dragon]

And such "will" isn't much complex thought

[kindred ingot]

wanting to have a will is in itself a will

[twin dragon]

I dont really think the void was explicitely instructing the lightkeeper to like turn it off

[kindred ingot]

"turn it off?"

[sinful nimbus]

This implies a dialogue of some sort

Might've been telepathic

[kindred ingot]

yeah that's what I'm saying

[twin dragon]

Its likely moreso an influence

not like

a direct convo

[kindred ingot]

the Void talked to that guy and told them to turn it off
which is something only willful beings can do

[twin dragon]

Actually what am i arguing

[kindred ingot]

idk ask yourself

[twin dragon]

isnt the AC dead corpse guy telling us straight in the face that the void has many ununified wills

[kindred ingot]

AC?

[fading shard]

the void doesn't have a will

[twin dragon]

ancient civ

[sinful nimbus]

it says power without unity so kinda

[fading shard]

or a self

[kindred ingot]

oh yeah

[foggy fractal]

...Void... Power... Without unity...

[fading shard]

nothing about wills

but power

[kindred ingot]

they pretty much are

[fading shard]

they're saying that voids a power

[fading shard]

without unity

[fading shard]

They literally get said not to have a will

[fading shard]

""...No will... No self."

[twin dragon]

If the void can act it has a will

[kindred ingot]

I'll keep sending that until you give me a proper explanation as to why that'd happen

[kindred ingot]

who says that?

[fading shard]

an arcane egg

[twin dragon]

No this is kinda referring to the AC giving themselves out to the void

basically

that's what they wanted to achieve

[sinful nimbus]

as in its will isn't unified before void heart

[kindred ingot]

oh
yeah that was the goal of the ancient civilization
not like they achieved it

[sinful nimbus]

lighthouse does demonstrate a will and some level of complex thought

[twin dragon]

Ig they did

and thats why they're dead although not confirmed

[fading shard]

._. are we all now in the time where we deem the void to have a mind and will

[sinful nimbus]

been like that for a few years

[kindred ingot]

every bug who thought the Void didn't have a will either died to the Void or suffered major disastrous consequences because of it

I wouldn't particularly trust them

[twin dragon]

The void seems to overwrite the bug's wills and leave them bereft of thought aside from its main goal

Essentially what the AC wanted

[sinful nimbus]

it doesn't seem to do that

[twin dragon]

It does for llace ig

If it doesn't kill the bug ofc

[sinful nimbus]

idc about that bum

should've been voided gms

[twin dragon]

which is why the ac likely drank shit in small quantities

[twin dragon]

Some bs 💔

[sinful nimbus]

i mean she is voided

[twin dragon]

Parts of her but not herself

[sinful nimbus]

she's just not a boss czu uh they wanted to reuse lace attacks

[twin dragon]

cuz too big of a will to void cuz yap yap

Can hbs even get voided

[sinful nimbus]

yeah its called PK

[twin dragon]

Fym Pk didnt get voided

Pk just fucking died

[sinful nimbus]

how

[twin dragon]

He died

[kindred ingot]

yeah GMS literally does and that's act 3's main plot

[sinful nimbus]

yeah of regret

and void is the manifestation of regret

[twin dragon]

She's not voided herself though

[kindred ingot]

ok so if you regret smth hard enough you just make Void

[sinful nimbus]

alternatively he was suicidal and the void told him to kill himself so that he stopped shining

[twin dragon]

Didnt take control

[sinful nimbus]

similar to the lighthouse situation

[twin dragon]

idfk what are the conditions

[sinful nimbus]

There could be like a void PK running around in the palace like collector

[twin dragon]

is it because lace has like

a void resistant coat or some bs

Or is it because it melds with stuff

and lace is magic

therefore lace is a void spell

[sinful nimbus]

its that

yknow void heart is kinda like the king getting voided in a way

[twin dragon]

Can Pk become a void spell

And either way what happened to lace is likely what the AC was preaching

[foggy fractal]

is everbloom a %

[sinful nimbus]

yes

[foggy fractal]

ok cool

[twin dragon]

Og pengu is so back

[sinful nimbus]

seamus was just so I could meme inconspicuously in #hk-lore

[foggy fractal]

whats going on in hk lore nowadays

[noble magnet]

Silk is conductive to Void as seen in Act 3

It’s like electricity and metal I think

So I guess that’s why she’s got better control of it than, say, Lost Garmond

[twin dragon]

Lace doesnt control it

its vice versa

[noble magnet]

I mean not control it but she can do complex shit with it

[craggy smelt]

i think they were going for something like the vessels - they even mention a shade
basically a full Void being

[twin dragon]

That's the void balling

[noble magnet]

I’ve mentioned this before but I find lost lace interesting from a symbolic perspective

[twin dragon]

Same

[noble magnet]

Since the situation you find her in is analogous to like

A womb of sorts

[twin dragon]

Overtaken by regret for what she did by gms

[noble magnet]

Like an enclosed space where she’s trapped with and entirely dependent on her mother to live

[wet grove]

Is the ||architects crest|| good?

[twin dragon]

Goated

[wet grove]

Wait oops wrong chat

But it’s good?

[twin dragon]

Yeah

[wet grove]

Okok 🙏

[noble magnet]

It’s kind of an obvious read but yknow

[twin dragon]

I didn't think of it

[noble magnet]

I see lost lace being mostly about lace receding entirely into the role that her mother made her for and believing that there’s no hope for her to recover or grow

[twin dragon]

She doesn't even consider ll herself when talking to hornet

[noble magnet]

I think this is also kinda why LL’s entry refers to her as a child and Lace’s normal entry doesn’t

[twin dragon]

Or yk, using the assumption that the void symbolizes regret, she's full of regret of what she did to her own mother even if mistreated due to the toxic relationship

[noble magnet]

That can also be true yeah

[twin dragon]

Hornet letting her out of it and giving her some growth

[noble magnet]

Yeah, so Hornet is kinda like, helping her be “reborn” sorta

[twin dragon]

And yk, along with the consequences it caused

thinking it is because of her own doing

which it is but yk

[twin dragon]

The game hints at rebirth quite a bit actually

that's a very interesting thing

[noble magnet]

I also think the womb and rebirth imagery ties back into og hk

Since the abyss is the vessel’s birthplace

[twin dragon]

True

[noble magnet]

So it has at least something to do with birth in both games

[twin dragon]

But im talking about the whole weaver queen thing

And hornet possibly changing masks in some time

[fading shard]

she doesn't

wtf do you mean she is voided

she isn't

[civic elm]

Why doesnt gms bind

All weavers are able to

So why cant gms bind

It is explained widow cant because she has her silk set by the pins in her back/mask

What about gms

[twin dragon]

Gms can bind

presumably

Weavers can't bind other beings to them they can just bind soul

[craggy smelt]

gms is presumably binding the weaver prisoners being brought to her

[civic elm]

Then why doesnt she heal

[twin dragon]

Shes starved of silk

[civic elm]

Why does she rarely use her silk in her right

[craggy smelt]

she wants to save her silk for attacks

[twin dragon]

that's the reason why she doesnt use silk spells

[civic elm]

But she isnt

[twin dragon]

But she quite literally is fym

[craggy smelt]

or for sustaining Lace maybe

[civic elm]

How is she starved of silk the entire arena is made of it

[civic elm]

Oh makes sense

[twin dragon]

huh??

what

fym

[civic elm]

The whole room is full of silk

[twin dragon]

In lost lace's arena gms went beyond her limit to make another cocoon

[civic elm]

Her cacoon is also full of silk

[twin dragon]

She's like

almost dead

[twin dragon]

Ig those are the hairs rolled up

[civic elm]

Yeah because of maintenance

[twin dragon]

She lacks silk

she's been milked of it for millenia

[civic elm]

I think she is still half asleep

That is why

When she was sent to the void she is no longer under the pilgrims spells

[twin dragon]

She's half asleep when doing the haunting

[civic elm]

Thats why she could use her silk freely

[twin dragon]

when hornet comes she wakes up fully

she's just very weak

[civic elm]

Then how was she able to use her silk so much more when she fell to the void

[twin dragon]

Going beyond her limits to survive

and save lace

[civic elm]

And why is it when we bind hee we get nearly infinitw silk

[twin dragon]

Cuz

we're absorbing the soul

[civic elm]

But hornet falls asleep

[twin dragon]

of the silk being

[civic elm]

So we absorbed both her and lace

[twin dragon]

tbf of a very powerful being in general

[civic elm]

I thought lace's silk was in her

[twin dragon]

what about lace

idk what about lace

[civic elm]

Doesnt explain

[twin dragon]

She's just laying there in weaver queen

maybe she got consumed

maybe not

doesnt matter as lace isnt nearly as powerful

[civic elm]

I think the best answer is that pilgrims song is still too powerful

[twin dragon]

Pilgrims song is gone in act 3

[civic elm]

In act 2

[twin dragon]

and its really not cuz gms wakes up

[civic elm]

Not 3

[twin dragon]

Gms has been milked of her soul for millenia

that's why she's weak

that's the answer

[civic elm]

But ahe still has alot

In act 2

[twin dragon]

Yeah but she needs sum to be able to yk, live

[civic elm]

She just isnt using it

[twin dragon]

thats why she needs weavers

[civic elm]

Yeah but she has the weavers

[twin dragon]

Some of them

[civic elm]

Wait I cant give details on my poiny

[twin dragon]

they weren't rlly uh

full blooded either

[twin dragon]

No i js think its wrong

the answer is right in front of you

Either that or gms is shackled

or she doesnt know how to cast sophisticated silk spells

[civic elm]

In beginning of act 2 lace meets hornet in the citadel, after the chat lace jumps up and goss toward gms, we here gms roar and now the haunting is in the citadle

[twin dragon]

Like the weavers did

[civic elm]

Thats my point

[twin dragon]

Yeah gms senses hornet

[twin dragon]

Your point was smt smt the choir

[civic elm]

So she still has silk but cant use it

[twin dragon]

She doesnt want to use it too much

she does use it

or yk, she doesnt know how to cast

[civic elm]

How wont she know how to cast

She can nearly cast an attack

[twin dragon]

Maybe not sophisticated enough casts

like the weavers did

The web is likely a spell

Or yk, it would be too much to waste

[civic elm]

Yeah so she cant fully bind

[twin dragon]

No she absolutely can

[civic elm]

Absolute gms in pantheon 5 confirmed

[twin dragon]

thats not rlly silk dependant if she binds other beings

[civic elm]

Then why doesnt she bing herself

Not other beings

[twin dragon]

How would that work

[civic elm]

I mean healing and spells

It is called binding your silk

[twin dragon]

Yeah ik

binding soul to heal and stuff

Idk she would be binding her own soul?

[civic elm]

Silk* weavers dont use soul

[twin dragon]

thats literally the same thing

omds

[civic elm]

Yeah

But the point is still there why doesnt she maintain her power by binding her silk in the fight

[twin dragon]

Gms is also quite different biologically than the weavers idk how binding her own injuries with herself would work

[civic elm]

Why doesnt she bing stronger attacks

Why wouldnt she use the silk that is just in the next room

[twin dragon]

buddy

hornet is uh

right in front of her

she's in the middle of the fight

[civic elm]

And?

She can fly down and up