sk-lore

[midnight zinc]

True, the flying enemies there are especially obnoxious

I’ve done a full playthrough twice and never died to ||Khann|| but the flying enemies got me several times

[sick tinsel]

new emoji ✌️

[deft plover]

It's been here for a while

It has potential

[sick tinsel]

didnt notice

[deft plover]

Like almost a year

[sick tinsel]

im on windows twin

[deft plover]

Eh yk i was js saying

[sinful nimbus]

\🫩 has been hip for a while

why does it not work smh

[near jasper]

🫪

[azure herald]

Yeah but the boss is really fun

[trail wagon]

does GMS wake up when Hornet comes to her?

[foggy stratus]

GMS waking up when Hornet gets there is likely primarily due to luck. Nothing really changes when she gets there.

[sinful nimbus]

Yeah she seems to have gotten there just in time

🐌 😔

[trail wagon]

imo that's kinda stupid

so GMS controls pretty much all bugs in Pharlom through the haunting?

[spark valve]

yes

[trail wagon]

And the primary goal of the Citadel is to keep her asleep, right?

[foggy stratus]

Cinematic ass shot tho.

[spark valve]

yes

[trail wagon]

So she basically controls bugs keeping the system that keeps her asleep

So she sabotages herself

[spark valve]

the citadel has been silent for a while

[sinful nimbus]

the citadel is dead when you arrive she wakes it up because the citadel killing you is better than you killing her

[spark valve]

and even that isn't the citadel being fully operational

[trail wagon]

What keeps her asleep then?

[spark valve]

currently? nothing, which is why she's waking up

[foggy stratus]

Song did*

[trail wagon]

But what exactly has changed?

Apart from the cog tower

[foggy stratus]

No one can continue the song anymore.

[trail wagon]

But doesn't everyone still sing?

[spark valve]

are you asking about how the haunting started because that's due to the whiteward shit

[trail wagon]

No, I'm asking how exactly she was kept asleep

And what has changed now

[foggy stratus]

I believe it was the Threefold Melody and maybe Bell shrines?

[spark valve]

threefold melody and its components and what's changed now is that the song isn't being played

[sinful nimbus]

Song activates the weaver trap that keeps her asleep and no one was singing for a while

[trail wagon]

Ohhhh

So was there like a seal or something?

[spark valve]

yes

snare setter is a prototype of something that was used

[trail wagon]

To me it's confusing, because there isn't really any explanation of what is the difference between the song the Weavers worshipping GMS were singing and the one that was used to keep her asleep

[spark valve]

different songs do different things

[trail wagon]

But how does that work 😭

[stray grove]

Song magic 🤯

[spark valve]

what do you mean how does that work, one magic song does one thing a different magic song does another thing

why would different incantations produce different effects in other magic systems, or different runes, etc

[trail wagon]

uhhh.. you right

why was it necessary to build an entire palace tho?

Like why does it have to be such a complex and faulty system?

[spark valve]

massive network of redundancies plus they were having fun ruling

[trail wagon]

Like from what I understood, the Pilgrims are also necessary for it

Why not just build huge speakers around the cacoon and blast GMS Sleep theme playlist 24/7?

[stray grove]

I don’t know how to tell you this…

[spark valve]

that's what cogwork core was going to be

[trail wagon]

Yeah, I get that, but it was only a part of the system?

like was it supposed to work along with the Pilgrim chants or was it supposed to replace them?

[stray grove]

It was supposed to replace them

[trail wagon]

ohhh okay then

[stray grove]

The pilgrims were funneled into the underworks instead

[trail wagon]

But what is the elevator in cogwork core for?

The one that leads to GMS

and threfold melody

[sinful nimbus]

when you pass bro the phone and he starts playing the hymn of protection

[stray grove]

That’s the access to the cradle

[trail wagon]

I mean I understand that it's for the gameplay lol

[spark valve]

endpoint of the pilgrimage is ascending to the cradle and singing to the divine heart of the kingdom

[trail wagon]

why would the statues refer to a Pilgrim who's gotten there? I don't think the Pilgrims were ever meant to get there right?

[spark valve]

they were

[stray grove]

They were meant to go there

[trail wagon]

ohhh

so were they also supposed to do the cogwork core parkour..?

to acquire the melody

[stray grove]

No

The core didn’t exist

[spark valve]

hornet has to do the parkour because the architect forgot the melody

which was uh probably not the design

[trail wagon]

where were the acrhitects then?

[trail wagon]

yeah true

[stray grove]

Where we find the twelfth architect is likely were they were based
Also there are no architects in the core either

Twelfth is the last

[trail wagon]

hmm that's true as well

but weren't architects created to construct it?

[stray grove]

No

[trail wagon]

ah

[stray grove]

The architects were made to serve the citadel by making mechanical tools and shit like the sentinels

The core is recent, it’s not even finished yet

The architects have been around for a long time

[trail wagon]

Yeah, true

Did the Weavers just die mid construction?

[stray grove]

The weavers died ages ago

Likely long before construction of the core had even started

[trail wagon]

wait why

did the Conductors order its construction?

[stray grove]

They just died

[trail wagon]

No that I know, but why do you think that happened before the construction of the core

[stray grove]

Yes the conductors did order its construction

[trail wagon]

How do you know?

[stray grove]

Last edict of the Conductors.

"And lo, is eternity sustained. By Architect's claw, we welcome that final form, of dial and rotor, and soul gladly given.

The perfect, unfaltering voice."

[surreal pelican]

finnaly i finished act 2, idk the story of act 3 but i know all the bosses, what i should expect of this act history?

[spark valve]

the weavers kinda thought they had shit figured out and then the conductors took over and said "you know what we should do to REALLY keep this song going is force everyone to surgically become immortal and turn some of the choir into robots"

[stray grove]

Just finish the game

You can arrive at your own conclusions

[surreal pelican]

but if you can describe the history of this avt in 1 word what would it be

[stray grove]

Garbage

[surreal pelican]

oh

[sinful nimbus]

daughter

[limpid summit]

Cinema

[stray grove]

larp

[surreal pelican]

Bait or died on Pale Stag?

[stray grove]

This is the lore channel, you asked me to describe the narrative of the act in one word

As I said you can just play the game and arrive at your own conclusions instead of asking for useless one word answers

[edgy nebula]

https://tenor.com/view/ishowspeed-ishowspeed-yeah-right-ishowspeed-yeah-ishowspeed-right-ishowspeed-stream-gif-2870397197282141259

[spark valve]

I'd go with slop

I think it better encapsulates it

[near jasper]

That

[sinful nimbus]

you can describe anything with slop as a suffix

[spark valve]

garbageslop

[foggy stratus]

Crochetslop

[terse wadi]

Bilewaterslop

So was Bilewater always this rancid or did the Citadel cause this by dumping their sewage via Putrified ducts

[stray grove]

The citadel were dumping their waste there

That’s why the Stilkin aren’t too pleased

[terse wadi]

I'd be mad too if someone was dumping Sewage on my lawn

Citadel ruined all the beauty of pharloom

Typical

[spiral torrent]

Doesent the lore state that lace isn't actually hornets cousin but her long lost mate? That's what one of my friends told me I'm pretty sure their lying

[edgy nebula]

lying out of their ass

[spiral torrent]

Oh

[edgy nebula]

lace can be seen as hornet's cousin in a way, but she's also a child so she isnt anyone's mate

or no

[spiral torrent]

Oh

[edgy nebula]

she wouldnt be hornet's cousin shed be her aunt

[spiral torrent]

I thought her brain was like reversed?

[edgy nebula]

mb

[spiral torrent]

Oh yeah because mommy silk made her or sum

Idk it's been a while

[edgy nebula]

gms has stunted her physically and mentally into being a child

[spiral torrent]

Ah that makes sense

And also silk satan the secret boss created all the lava and is the reason behind the dried up reef areas

Right?

Or was my friend just lying about everything

[craggy smelt]

silk satan does sound awesome but your friend was lying about them

we don't know that the lava was created by anything other than nature, but if there's some kind of lava god out there that wouldn't surprise me either

[spiral torrent]

Damn... All I know about this game is what my friend told me and that you play as a Beatle... Im maybe ten minutes into the first game

[craggy smelt]

this world is lousy with gods making stuff

[edgy nebula]

you actually play as a spider

[craggy smelt]

not in the first game

[spiral torrent]

Isn't it like a worm and spider mix? And then the knight is a worm and a stag breatle but technically also a tree

[craggy smelt]

that's... like mostly almost correct

[spiral torrent]

Good

So I got the gist

This gave me enough motivation to make it to greenpath

Thanks

[craggy smelt]

stay strong, be safe, and play hollow knight

[dire lynx]

GREENPATH MENTIONED!!! RAHH!!!

[terse wadi]

TK is 50% Tree 50% Wyrm and 100% void

[spiral torrent]

irl deciple of the slug 😭😭✌️✌️✌️

[dire lynx]

https://media2.giphy.com/media/v1.Y2lkPTc5MGI3NjExbWQ2MzAzM3NmMDdtcGZlNTV5b3lvZmJhamF6aDhpc3J5M3p5bnZvNiZlcD12MV9pbnRlcm5hbF9naWZfYnlfaWQmY3Q9Zw/68AGjYHufzA9u984zF/giphy.gif

[terse wadi]

Also Hornet is like 65% HB because of Wyrm (50%) and original divinated Weaver (15%)

I'm mostly kidding

Weavers aren't actual HB obviously but they are (Blessed?) idk

[spiral torrent]

My friend says zotes better

[dire lynx]

https://media3.giphy.com/media/v1.Y2lkPTc5MGI3NjExNHAwYTc3azF0Mnp2cGRtYjZkdHNuaHVpMmticWR6dTF6d2pqdTd6YSZlcD12MV9pbnRlcm5hbF9naWZfYnlfaWQmY3Q9Zw/dCiLA5niMLgsbeANvO/giphy.gif

[dire lynx]

modified, i would say

or elevated

[craggy smelt]

the spiders touched pale (idk)

[terse wadi]

Being modified by a god under most religious doctrines would be "blessed"

Blessed with Divinity to be specific in this case

But false gods in this case also

The original weavers have divine silk but they are far from the Strength/feats threshold of HB's

[craggy smelt]

arachnologictransfigumaration
right in their silk holes

[terse wadi]

Law and Order special victims unit

[dire lynx]

they are like jack horners ( 🤢 ) theoretical chickenosaurus

[craggy smelt]

Hornet is a nephilim

[spiral torrent]

My friend says uuns only feat is having a strong imagination, he says zote defeated some sorta trials, 1v1s the knight, defeats the mother of all muskitos and more

[dire lynx]

zote did none of that, his sword cant even deal damage

[craggy smelt]

unn also gives you a charm
I'm in love with it

[dire lynx]

he talks a big game but does nothing of substance

[dire lynx]

i love shape of unn sm

[terse wadi]

A strong imagination is like half of the HB's feats

[dire lynx]

imagination so strong it created the mosskin and all of the vegetation in greenpath

[spiral torrent]

He also says that zote himself claims to be able to beat the knight, and bretta believes him so why shouldn't everyone

[terse wadi]

Pretty sure the capacity to create life just by thinking about it is pretty large in magnitude as far as power goes

[dire lynx]

grand bum silk could never

[terse wadi]

Don't the only thing she do is make Lace and quite horribly too

And Elevate the weavers who then entrap her

[craggy smelt]

it's true, Radiance also made her followers but they left because they thought she was lame

mosskin remain loyal

[terse wadi]

Then try to steal Hornets power because being half wyrm makes her better than her and that's not okay

[terse wadi]

I mean they made a moth to a flame joke

TC did anyway

But with PK's beacon

Which is kind of on by default and cannot be manually turned off

[craggy smelt]

left the beacon on, very irresponsible

all kinds of creatures suddenly becoming sapient

[terse wadi]

I still blame radiance, if you can create life why in the hell would you make it possible for them to arbirarily decide to follow a brighter light

[craggy smelt]

that's just freedom of religion

[terse wadi]

(Or is that an Ego thing in Radiance thinking she's the brightest HB ever)

[terse wadi]

Idk man, HK universe seems to be "our side" or "dead side"

I don't think Hallownest deserved to suffer because of it, the simplest solution would be to punish the moths

But HK Universe gods are dumb and petty

[craggy smelt]

and they plague bugkind with suffering...

[dire lynx]

unn would never 🤫

[terse wadi]

WL really said "She not one of us" to GMS and gave her the flower to go kill her and her daughter

The tree has spoken it says "you're not a pale being, go die"

WL gives Hornet the Everbloom knowing she intends to slay GMS and save Lace GMS is a pale HB, WL also a Pale HB is telling GMS to go fuck herself

Stepmom of the year lads

Pretty cool that WL talks to hornet in the Red Memory

[dire lynx]

i dont understand what ur trying to get at, there isnt really any indication the wl knows about gms at all, and its not like she has some personal vendetta against gms either

[terse wadi]

Might have to thumb through the dialogue again but pretty sure hornet vaguely talks about it at least the part about needing the everbloom to enter the void then WL talks about giving the flower and to face what lies in their basement and what is forever linked to their family

So she knows Hornet is descending, and for a big reason so I suppose she might not know why but I'll take the headcanon if that's what it is

[dire lynx]

White Lady: ...Alas... spider's child...
White Lady: ...For our ways you will think us harsh... You will think us uncaring, unrepentant...
White Lady: ...And so we must seem, for such is the cost of our wish...
Hornet: You are wrong, Lady...
Hornet: I knew the wish, and the price to achieve it. And now, across these many ages, I have only come to know it better...
Hornet: Strength... in mind, in care, in claw. Strength enough that I may live to see a world better than our own, or to craft a world as I desire.
Hornet: That was the wish, of my mother, of my mentor, and of you...
White Lady: ...Indeed, spider... So much pain you must have passed to speak our hope so simply...
White Lady: For her you become... who knows clear our desire, and has seen full the darkness beneath our house, I would show you the gift...
White Lady: Witness, the first light. The only means we possess to resist that void with which our family is forever linked.
White Lady: Reach forth, child grown strong. Wrest it from this remembrance. Burn yourself free from our sad fate...

[terse wadi]

Nice

[dire lynx]

theres nothing about gms or what hornet intends to use the bloom for

its not malicious in the slightest

[terse wadi]

I suppose, but WL does know it's for void plunging

[dire lynx]

well, if someone reaches into a memory where you talk about how this object repels the void, i would assume they were dealing with the void

considering it serves no other function

[terse wadi]

Hey, it does serve another function

It makes elderbug happy

It also fucking shatters on impact

[dire lynx]

thats not useful tho

[terse wadi]

Useful as fertilizer probably

[dire lynx]

"let me do a stupidly risky memory dive to recover a single flower to use as fertiliser"

😭

[terse wadi]

Anyways

Does Green Prince canonically die? Like, we can kill him, but the intended and assumed canonical path is to slay Khann, Karmalita and Nyleth

[eternal gazelle]

the concept of canon doesn't really exist in a game with branching decisions

silksong has limited outcomes of hollow knight that it can follow but even that doesn't necessarily decanonize the other HK endings

[terse wadi]

Yeah I figured

Even though there were plenty of people who wanted to discredit the canonicity of the other HK endings leading into Silksong just because SOV is the latest ending chronologically as if WQ and TC don't exist

[trail wagon]

oh thanks

[trail wagon]

I think TC have a very open view of canon which makes anything that happens canon

[trail wagon]

But personally I just utterly despise this framing and I just call everything that looks like a part of the main big story canon ahhaha

[terse wadi]

I agree

[trail wagon]

But I think it's kind of a minor aspect of the lore so it doesn't really have to be one way or another

[terse wadi]

People are obsessed with a "main timeline" they can focus on

HK has always been a story of timelines

[trail wagon]

I wouldn't necessarily say "obsessed", it's easier to piece together and make sense of

[terse wadi]

The only "canon" thing in SS is that SOV specifically follows up DNM or ETV

[terse wadi]

Anyone worth their salt knows HK universe is far from "easy to piece together and make sense of"

[trail wagon]

I personally view various endings as different ways to show us what could've happened if certain things happened, but for myself I just think that the ending that leads to the events of other additional parts of the game/DLC is what is canon for me

Like the cursed ending is canon in a sense that it shows something that could've happened if Hornet did defeat GMS infected, but it doesn't happen in the timeline with Act 3 and I just disregard the infected ending as 'non-canon' in a colloquial sense

[terse wadi]

I think it lacks canonicity for me purely for the fact that it's so obscure of an ending

[trail wagon]

I would say it's purely semantics if we're being honest

[terse wadi]

It is

[trail wagon]

Like everyone understands that different endings show different ways of how the story could've ended if certain things happened, but it's most comfortable to just not look at the cursed ending as the "main" ending, if it makes sense

[terse wadi]

But since Hornet actually has a personality and isn't a player insert I think she'd be smart enough not to fight GMS or what she thinks lays in wait at the kingdoms crown while infected

[trail wagon]

Because it doesn't make sense as one

[trail wagon]

Yeah, true

I think this ending exists to show the potential power of the infection and that the parasite could potentially destroy a god

[trail wagon]

Which might be important later down the line actually

That was a long tangent ahahahah

[terse wadi]

Yeah

[trail wagon]

Back to the GP, Idk HAHAHAHA

a shorter answer

I think it doesn't impact the lore too much personally, it's there just to show us what potentially could've happened

[terse wadi]

I always use Karmalita's heart for the story, feels "wrong" to do otherwise

But that's just me

[trail wagon]

Also, I personally don't think his death necessarily means Verdania will be restored at some point. The veins and leafs are mostly symbolic and are there to symbolize whatever you want it to. Hope of the lost world being restored, or a symbol of his love in a form of some leafs and plants amongst ruins

and stuff like that

[trail wagon]

You mean for the quest?

[terse wadi]

Oh I don't think it would affect Verdania, just whether he actually dies in the normal sequence of "canon" events since his heart is a optional one by design since it won't be used for the ritual unless you do his as one of the three and even then if you collect all 4 then do the quest his heart won't be used by default

[twin dragon]

Verdania itself wont be restored but something else will grow there

[dire lynx]

I mean, it doest really matter which silksong ending you look at, sealed siblings ending is impossible in anything silksong related

[still relic]

Lowkey tis dead

[still relic]

Isn't dnm the canon for the first game?

[twin dragon]

Its split between etv and dnm

[still relic]

What is etv

[twin dragon]

embrace the void

[still relic]

Oh

Ok

Wasn't the citadel created for containing gms and the choir keeps her asleep

[twin dragon]

Yeah

[still relic]

Ok

I'm only confused from the choir still singing after she's voided

[twin dragon]

They aren't

Choral chambers doesnt have the background chorus in act 3 iirc

[still relic]

Oh

Also how did hornet even manage to wake gms considering the choir was still going and stuff

[twin dragon]

It wasnt really going uh

most of the citadel went silent

Gms ended up waking up essentially she just needed to fully exit the cocoon

[still relic]

K

I don't keep track of lore much

[twin dragon]

Well it is quite good

[still relic]

Yeah

Anyways Ima go to bed

Gn twin✌️

[twin dragon]

gn

[exotic pendant]

This counts as memeing

[craggy smelt]

off with his head

[dire lynx]

this counts as promoting p3d0

[fading shard]

this counts as promoting pedo

[fading shard]

wait yoo unn

how have you been mrs

[dire lynx]

ive been good!

[fading shard]

well that's great

[dire lynx]

i saw u in a yt short about hegemol lol

[fading shard]

yeahhh

[dire lynx]

thats pretty cool

[fading shard]

thanks :D

[fading shard]

I don't think the video got anything wrong

[dire lynx]

everything seemed right to me

[fading shard]

yipeee

[stoic harbor]

Wait so the reason that john silk doesn't attack us in the true ending is because we play the silk song and say hello knight

[hard widget]

It’s because the knight and hornet did the sibling dance in hall of gods

[stoic harbor]

Ohh yeah i forgot about that

Didnt they dance to the hollow knights silk song?

https://tenor.com/view/say-that-again-gif-968943876633031890

[hard widget]

Silk actually didn’t exist yet! Any thread you see anywhere throughout the game is actually polyester

[twin dragon]

plastic pollution is real

[noble magnet]

I once saw someone say that the silk everywhere could be read as an allegory for microplastics

Like, how pharloom’s overreliance on it caused it to spread everywhere, even within the bodies of creatures that live there

I mean it’s not like we intentionally put microplastics in our bodies like how they put silk in people in the whiteward but yknow

[twin dragon]

Somewhat ig

They were all donating their bodies to a god

[noble magnet]

Not willingly though

They were trying to extend their lives

It’s kinda like bloodborne in that they abused a “miracle cure” which ended up biting them in the ass

[twin dragon]

Lwk yeah

likely inspired by it

With silk being sort of like the blood of the great ones

[noble magnet]

Yup

And in both games they even built religious institutions around them lmao

[twin dragon]

true

both institutions being atheistic religions

[noble magnet]

It’s kind of funny how the emblem of the citadel is the symbol of the imprisoned grand mother silk

[twin dragon]

Does the healing church have a sigil?

I kinda forgot

is it ebrietas?

Like you see on the doors to upper cathedral ward

[noble magnet]

Like the weavers were so proud of their scheme that they stamped “we totally owned our evil god-mom” on everything

[twin dragon]

Yeah but funnily enough nobody knew

They just saw a big ball of silk and went with it

[noble magnet]

Like Brutus putting that symbol with the two knives on the back of his coin to represent his murder of Caesar

[twin dragon]

actually the church's sigil is similar to the communion rune

[twin dragon]

yeah the game's details are neat

[twin dragon]

Those effects were actually seen

in the phtumerians

Laurence was too ambicious to let it go

[noble magnet]

Wasn’t it the Conductors and Choir that got into injecting people with silk

[twin dragon]

I think so

Like?

The whiteward is likely weaver era stuff

but the bugs wanting immortality likely is a conductor thing

Why can't you have silkflies without silk being present in bugs

They're quite literally just soul

the mechanism likely made em that way because of weaver make

I mean, sure?

not arguing against the fact that weavers had the whiteward

the bugs shoving silk into themselves for immortality is something the conductors likely did

Like the caretaker mentions the bugs themselves doing that

greedily

I assume the weavers didnt allow for that

[fading shard]

the weavers are quite prideful

[twin dragon]

The weavers thought the citadel was eternal

Conductors literally do??? fym??

that was before the citadel

you can see prototype bells even

there's also nothing saying eva was something made to kill gms

Its also very obvious that the citadel cared about its public image above all else

everyone had to go to the pit if failure

Where is this stated

And they didnt need a weavenest after gms

Yeah the weavers thought themselves divine

This is literally headcanon

Eva was made as an attempt to perpetuate the fading weavers

[stoic harbor]

Holy peak theory

[twin dragon]

Who else could control it

The conductors are very much shown to be doing what they want

They even reached for immortality themselves

Where

[stoic harbor]

I can't remember if we see the hollow knight in the act 3 ending or not

[twin dragon]

thats the knight

[stoic harbor]

Bc ik we see many hollow knights including the one from the first game

But idk if THE hollow knight is visible in the background

[twin dragon]

iirc nope

Where did you get this from

[stoic harbor]

Yeah sad, well ig we never get closure on what happens to thk in the p5 ending because it cuts off after they wake up freed of infection

[twin dragon]

They still fell under the religious order of the citadel which the conductors had power of

[twin dragon]

Dnm gives a good enough closure to thk

[stoic harbor]

Ik but dnm doesnt work for the act 3 ending bc that shows the void entity

[twin dragon]

Brother

its not that hard to understand

[stoic harbor]

😭

[twin dragon]

its a split timeline situation

[fading shard]

no it is not

[twin dragon]

I now understand why tc cant do nuance

[fading shard]

it's for the sake that both embrace the void

and dream no more are viable

so they made the void given focus form show up

[twin dragon]

yeah workers took an oath to work in the whiteward

[stoic harbor]

Ik there's many different endings and only the p5 ending works for silksong but the others lead on for different paths

[fading shard]

and the hollow knight not existing with the other vessels

[twin dragon]

whos to say the oath is independant lmao

[stoic harbor]

I guess

[twin dragon]

nope

dnm works aswell

its either dnm or wtv

what

fym

the conductors did it for their own benefit

mizello's case failed

just like many other bugs

[twin dragon]

yes thank you my goat

Uhh

because there was no anesthetic?

Like sure he would suffer but he would be immortal afterwards

Caretaker even says it was done greedily

Ballador has lived for a while too

The true task they despised is keeping gms asleep

They enjoyed the fuck out of their positions

[fading shard]

the weavers that did so

stayed as the spired weavers

[twin dragon]

they had big ass waterfalls

[fading shard]

L move on them

you just need to be ogrim

and somehow you're going to live longer then hornet

[twin dragon]

Ogrim lwk survived

he the goat

[fading shard]

he truly is the goat

[twin dragon]

lwk one of my fav characters hes super underrated

[fading shard]

the guy is somehow older then hornet

same for hegemol before that damn maggot

[fading shard]

I forgor how long old stag even lived

[twin dragon]

They're lwk all dead by that point

[fading shard]

because did he live before the infection showed up

or after it showed up

[twin dragon]

Before

[fading shard]

but it was sealed by the hollow knight

[twin dragon]

he remembers seeing tons of stags go in and out

[fading shard]

well yeah but that could still have been the case for post infection

given that the hollow knight seal

stayed working for a long time

[twin dragon]

Ballador is a slimy little greaseball

Its on them that the system collapsed

They can cope all they want but the fact is; They're hypocrites

[twin dragon]

Well the infection wiped em all

Depending on the wave idrk

[fading shard]

I thought it was implied that happened after the seal started failing

as the kingdom and the generations of bugs got to live for a few more generations

[twin dragon]

no?

[fading shard]

before the seal started breaking

[twin dragon]

They are evil

demonstrably evil

arguably the worst antagonists

[fading shard]

how are they like the pale king

[twin dragon]

The pale king was himself a good ruler put in a bad spot

tried to do his best and was regretful

ballador misses the days of the citadel's exploitative prime

and his luxury and status

He's also showing sympathy towards a tyrannical monarch that he helped contain

[fading shard]

I think the main key difference is that you can mention several positive things about the pale king

where as with the conductors you can't mention one

[twin dragon]

"The main key difference is that jeffrey epstein was a horrible person, and your mother likely isn't"

[fading shard]

okay that made me laugh

[twin dragon]

Ballador isn't really regretting much, he's nostalgia drooling

Only tiny bit the fact that they helped the weavers in their scheme

He's blissfully ignorant else he wouldn't have been

perpetuating shit such as the underworks

long live the democratic bug's republic of pharloom

[fading shard]

"Is our state so bare, pilgrim?... "By the will of the Conductors," we once boomed, and this Citadel shook at our decree."

[twin dragon]

The conductors werent really tricked into making huge waterfalls and having a caste system 😭

[twin dragon]

yeah

the waterfalls?

deadass?

the whole gilding thing is likely conductor made

No evidence of weavers doing it

[fading shard]

._. the karak fell to gms

[twin dragon]

Also this yeah

[fading shard]

that's what they state

not that the weavers or citadel were the ones to do it

[twin dragon]

No it was likely their idea

They're the ones to enjoy luxury

whereas the weavers wanted the citadel to be something purely practical

and ofc feed their own egos

is this a serious discussion

[fading shard]

both the weavers and conductors were evil bastards

[twin dragon]

Yeah

but gms was the catalyst

of all of this bs

[fading shard]

https://tenor.com/view/bros-the-office-love-fist-bump-gif-13830753

[twin dragon]

cuz bad mom

[fading shard]

this is what happens when bad parents

That's why hornet is racist

[twin dragon]

yeah its not serious

Anyways long live the democratic bug's republic of pharloom

long live the citadel

long live the conductors

Am i still a heretic?

[fading shard]

don't be insulting

[twin dragon]

headcanon?

buddy you're willing to forgive the billionaires of the hollow knight verse

[fading shard]

spirit tree please calm down

[twin dragon]

💔

the conductors ate babies bro

[sinful nimbus]

ruling is yoke, not crown

[twin dragon]

Oh but i wonder who made the big falls, the big golden statues and stuff, the underworks

the caste system

made the whole silk injection thing mainstream

essentially doomed the citadel because of the lack of efforts going towards the main goal

Who is comparable to jeffrey

[fading shard]

okay the underworks are in someway weaver work

[twin dragon]

Iirc the old citadel didnt have much machinery that needed maintenance

it was barebones

???

[fading shard]

Oh no

[mighty zealot]

what

what the fuck happened

[twin dragon]

He doesn't like arguments against the conductors

[terse warren]

Mh?

[twin dragon]

But they do

[gentle aspen]

why are there insults being flung

[twin dragon]

Why ping mods if you can disprove them if they supposedly dont make sense

😭

[gentle aspen]

that’s not an excuse

nor valid reasoning

[terse warren]

Okay this is technically wrong but I'm not about to have this Convo a 10th time

[twin dragon]

We genuinely dont know

[terse warren]

I mean you're doing the same

[twin dragon]

Im arguing against your points that how a discussion works

[terse warren]

I'm trying to back read but this is genuinely a mess

[gentle aspen]

and regardless of whether or not the conductors wanted to partake in the weaver made system, they’re still some of the highest ranking citadel members and share blame for perpetuating it

[twin dragon]

no?

I made like

[gentle aspen]

😐

[twin dragon]

an analogy

im not comparing them lmfao

Read what i wrote in what context

[terse warren]

I'm trying to have lunch and this almost made me choke

[gentle aspen]

deadass not what was said and this analogy is in extremely poor taste anyways

[twin dragon]

Yeah im sorry

[terse warren]

I mean you're looking at a game about capitalism and saying "Oh but the poor CEOs don't WANT to rule the world, but they have to or everything will be even worse than it already is!"

[twin dragon]

Can you disprove my lies before trolling me

[gentle aspen]

If you read what was said

they did not say they were as bad as epstein

[twin dragon]

The social critique game's CEO's are good apparently

[gentle aspen]

why am I bothering

[sinful nimbus]

silksong is literally about the pain of the upper class maybe you should read the dialogue

But the words... How hollow they echoed. The mantle of rule, claimed greedily from Pharloom's fading first children, those bitter Weavers... it was yoke, not crown.
Now, in our Citadel's silence, we share their truth. Only one monarch's claws ever clutched this kingdom, though we raised our voices to cry otherwise.
Would you see her, pilgrim? Up there at our Citadel's crown? Reach those heights we'd hoped to hide and bow before this land's true ruler.

[gentle aspen]

stop insulting people @wet lintel you already have logs of this

[gentle aspen]

silksong is jot about the pain of the upper class lmao

[twin dragon]

They want me banned for

arguing

[spark valve]

not even ceos, theocrats which is even worse

[twin dragon]

This is bait

[twin dragon]

True

[terse warren]

Ik but personally I don't really see GMS leading armies or some shit, I think when they refer to the pale thread or wtv they say they just meant the power of the Silk that the Citadel uses

[sinful nimbus]

It says they are slaves

No different from the undercranks

[twin dragon]

Ig the light part could imply gms and her big glow

[terse warren]

What is this ragebait

[twin dragon]

And like

maybe?

but we dont know enough

[foggy stratus]

Conductors arent dying of Black Lung now are they?

[twin dragon]

gms could go out of her way and fight them herself

[terse warren]

Well yeah but silk glows too that's why I say I think it's the Citadel

[terse warren]

GMS has so little characterization I genuinely don't know

[sinful nimbus]

No one in the Citadel is doing too hot

[twin dragon]

There are many other things the citadel can be described as such though

[terse warren]

Yeah ik

[twin dragon]

collecting signatures so TC makes an old pharloom expansion

Gms does have characterization but this is just classic lack of info

[sinful nimbus]

The point is that all of them are slaves to power

[gentle aspen]

If you genuinely equate being top brass of a society that literally functions off of deadly capitalism and damn near slave labor of lower class then like

[sinful nimbus]

Pharloom isn't capitalistic

[gentle aspen]

[twin dragon]

yeah but it is self inflicted

[terse warren]

It's just eh I personally believe that the other Hearts fell during the reign of the Citadel, not before

[twin dragon]

in their case

[terse warren]

She has 2 contrasting pieces of characterization lmao

[sinful nimbus]

Everyone is a slave in Pharloom there's literally an NPC who only talks about this

[twin dragon]

Which are?

[terse warren]

She's both a good mom and a bad mom like gang what

[twin dragon]

Yeah

she's a good mom in her eyes

[foggy stratus]

More like theocracy tbh.

[twin dragon]

that's kinda the point

but she's horrible

[sinful nimbus]

She cares about Lace's survival she's never shonw to be a good mom

[terse warren]

No she's a good mom at the end of the game case and point

[twin dragon]

Not really?

[gentle aspen]

Feudalism and capitalism aren’t mutually exclusive things what

[twin dragon]

she sees lace as her perfect little doll

not more or less

[terse warren]

I'd say bringing down the whole kingdom just to save your child is p good mom behavior

[sinful nimbus]

she wants a perfect doll for a child that means she needs to keep her alive

[gentle aspen]

not really

[spark valve]

they kind of are but pharloom isn't really either

[foggy stratus]

Brutally corrupt capitalism.

[gentle aspen]

pharloom sucks

[terse warren]

Fym not really

[twin dragon]

Thats the doll she loves most yeah

[sinful nimbus]

Pharloom economy is wack rosaries aren't even traditional currency

[twin dragon]

in her eyes she's a good parent and the others are wrong

[echo vapor]

how did we even get 2 mods in here 😭 last time i checked there was only Epstein here

[twin dragon]

So she does that

[terse warren]

Meh I don't think she'd kill everyone for a doll

"What's 17 more years"

[twin dragon]

She would give a fuck?

[gentle aspen]

You can do good things for your kid but not be a good parent lmao

[twin dragon]

Perpection is important

[terse warren]

Yeah I mean like

[twin dragon]

FORCED TO CALL THEM LMAAAO

[gentle aspen]

because you literally were the problem here

[twin dragon]

[gentle aspen]

someone disagreed with your points and you cursed them out and insulted them repeatedly

[echo vapor]

and now they are talking about..lore ? Is that the problem

[foggy stratus]

Saying that to a mod is crazy work ngl.

[sinful nimbus]

She cares about Lace's survival what makes her cruel is creating Lace to be obedient and a child for all of eternity

[twin dragon]

Spirit tree summoned people that can argue like regular people thank you

[sinful nimbus]

And discarding Phantom because she didn't fit the bill

[twin dragon]

We dont rlly know how gms discarded phantom theres just a lack of info

[terse warren]

We don't actually have info on this but I digress

[twin dragon]

but yk

weavers

[foggy stratus]

Then leave? Like what?

[twin dragon]

being terrorized

for a while

[spark valve]

anyways the capitalism reading of pharloom is super superficial and really not accurate nor relevant to the social critique it's trying to make about religion, the citadel is exploitative but that doesn't mean every exploitative system is capitalism

[echo vapor]

then why call them in the first place

[sinful nimbus]

Not really an alternative

[terse warren]

The weavers lowkey brought em upon themselves

[twin dragon]

I mean not really?

[terse warren]

Phantom could've betrayed GMS like the weavers did for all we know

[foggy stratus]

Or just dont call them if you lack respect for them?

[sinful nimbus]

You and me twin

[twin dragon]

They did it out of fear

as a natural response

and maybe in part to how gms herself was

narcissistic and selfish

perceiving what they did as good

[terse warren]

No? They said they trapped GMS because being under her was "Web and servitude"

And idk you but I don't really trust what the people who enslaved a whole race of bugs see as "servitude"

[sinful nimbus]

That would entail her not being obedient

[twin dragon]

Yeah

Thats

uh

mistreatment

They had to have weavenests to be able to do anything at all

[spark valve]

the point is that there's a cycle of oppression, the weavers oppressed the choir and then the conductors took over and ruled in the way they learned what rule was from the weavers

[sinful nimbus]

Cindril wrote that though

[twin dragon]

Like the weavers are evil for their own right but you can clearly see how gms treated her own daughters with lace

[terse warren]

For all we know the "servitude" was just "honey could you pass the salt please"

Obviously hyperbole but y'know what I mean

[twin dragon]

They were shown to grant worship to her in some way through the song

Glorified tools

[sinful nimbus]

Its both a cycle of abuse and the fact that even weavers who didn't create the Citadel and opted to not enslave anyone also describe it as servitude

[twin dragon]

Brother lace is RIGHT there

whats there to argue

[sinful nimbus]

That would be bizarre writing

[terse warren]

I thought that flashback was when they were sealing her

[terse warren]

The whole of act 3 is bizzarre writing

[twin dragon]

"Sustain"

[twin dragon]

Literally irrelevant to this convo

[sinful nimbus]

Yes I hate act 3 as much as the next guy but the Citadel is pretty well written

[twin dragon]

Starpengu rebrand 53443

Act 3 is fine

[sinful nimbus]

Shut up bro my cover

[twin dragon]

Why we defending the spirit guy holy

L

[foggy stratus]

Act 3 is actually just a fever dream from Hornet

[sinful nimbus]

I thought if I changed my pronouns it would work

It did in #hk-lore

[terse warren]

If not for GMS trying her hardest to save Lace I wouldn't be defending her

[twin dragon]

Are your pronouns Now?

[twin dragon]

Brother she loves lace in her own awful way

[terse warren]

Do you have the slightest idea how tempted I am to share your modlogs

[twin dragon]

do it

[terse warren]

Stop calling me brother thank you

[twin dragon]

Alright me sorry sister

[terse warren]

Nah no need

Gang you got banned two years ago for this exact same thing

You got unbanned a week ago

And you're already back at it

Lmao

[twin dragon]

Bro is so determined to get banned again

[spark valve]

maybe take five

[terse warren]

Anyways ehhhh iunno iunno ik what you mean but ehhhhhhhhhh

I still feel like the GMS hate is a bit overblown

Well not hate

[foggy stratus]

What the hell even is Spirit Tree's perspective because on the Void I've only seen them complaining up until this point.

[sinful nimbus]

woah complaining about the void kinda based ‼️

[terse warren]

I don't think what the Weavers had to do was as bad as what they did to the Citadel, I don't think she really went to colonize anything I believe that happened later, and I don't think she discarded Phantom cause she was bad, just that she betrayed her or smt

[limpid summit]

Food heart

[twin dragon]

No hate she's well written as an awful villain

[terse warren]

Calling GMS well written is a crazy stretch

[sinful nimbus]

2nd infection 😍

[twin dragon]

For what she is, yeah

kinda

she lacks a bit of that

[terse warren]

Meh

[twin dragon]

old pharloom

characterization

[spark valve]

Calling GMS ~~well ~~written is a crazy stretch

[terse warren]

The Radiance was like a billion times better

[twin dragon]

what

no

[terse warren]

Tammo gets me

[twin dragon]

The radiance of all things

💔

[sinful nimbus]

The themes she's a part of are pretty solid

[limpid summit]

She’s amazingly designed her writing is eh we get so little about her early period and her fight is only fun while cursed

[foggy stratus]

Not what I meant. What makes people call you a madman.

[sinful nimbus]

I'm not getting over how awful the fight was though

[terse warren]

It's not about the themes it's about the character itself

[twin dragon]

The only conceptually solid thing about radiance is the fact that she's an idea

[sinful nimbus]

Like they actually just ripped off Radiance down to the intro

[terse warren]

She just feels a bit flat

[limpid summit]

Radiance is peak

[sinful nimbus]

That's true

[limpid summit]

Wdym

[twin dragon]

The fight mogs radiance still

[sinful nimbus]

Don't care metroidvanias don't have good combat

[twin dragon]

They made radiance but marginally easier and not slop

[limpid summit]

I think the rad climb is better than GMS falling then summoning rocks and coming back with the ability to summon rocks

[twin dragon]

The climb has aura icl

but the fakout was neat

[sinful nimbus]

platforms mog so hard

[terse warren]

Minor spelling mistake gg

[limpid summit]

HB really throwing shit at us like Usopp

[twin dragon]

[terse warren]

This means I'm right about like

Everything

GMS mother of the year everyone pack it up

[twin dragon]

Radiance had this much aura only to be angry and be a dream warrior 2.0

[sinful nimbus]

god of silk casts no silk spells

[twin dragon]

Tbf the god of silk has been milked for millenia

like idk just a possibility

[sinful nimbus]

don't care doesn't follow the rule of cool

[terse warren]

Y'know what I'm not even gonna lie GMS is probably in like the top 50% of moms if we wanna count the ones in real life

At least top 70%

[sinful nimbus]

its also not really important to the narrative for her to be unable to cast spells

but maybe its for the best cuz they'd all rip off pure vessel anyway

[twin dragon]

The game wants to show that she's weak as fuck

it kinda is

[sinful nimbus]

Its also not all that important that she's that weak

[twin dragon]

well that's the reason of why hornet can beat her at all

[terse warren]

How are you still on about this

[twin dragon]

so i'd say it is important for story progression

[sinful nimbus]

she uh can't

[twin dragon]

She does

though

[terse warren]

She does not

[twin dragon]

She puts her in a vulnerable enough position

[foggy stratus]

What the hell was your fucking opinion.

[terse warren]

You're the one that's been insulting others for disagreeing with you gang

[twin dragon]

a higher being

[twin dragon]

conductor good

that's basically his argument

[sinful nimbus]

you don't really beat her you just weaken her enough to bind her just like how TK could theoretically weaken the Radiance without voidheart it just wouldn't be able to kill her

[foggy stratus]

Yeah them being a madman makes sense.

[terse warren]

That the conductors were also poor slaves to the citadel's structure

[twin dragon]

Tbf tk would get slimed without the vh

[foggy stratus]

To a degree they were slaves, but certainly not poor.

[twin dragon]

that and the void under would lwk eat them up first

[sinful nimbus]

It doesn't use it throughout the fight that much

[sinful nimbus]

the void it summons?

[terse warren]

Slaves to being in a position of power oh no

[twin dragon]

Isn't it the void inside thk's head or

how does this work

did tk just tp the whole abyss into thk's head

[terse warren]

Close enuff

But also like

[twin dragon]

how does this work

[twin dragon]

They're the slaves that perpetuate the slavery

[terse warren]

You do realize you're not physically going inside THK's head, right

[twin dragon]

You're going

uh

somewhere

[foggy stratus]

The horror of living in a gilded bed for the rest of my days. Oh nooooop

[twin dragon]

where the radiance's core idea is

ig

whatever the fuck

[terse warren]

Dream realm gang

We brought the void there

[twin dragon]

how

how

how does this work

[foggy stratus]

So they can probably not agree with you? Sure go ahead.

[twin dragon]

is bro's dad john discord

[terse warren]

Hype moments and aura

[twin dragon]

Ig since tk is part of the void or wtv

tk is void

[foggy stratus]

If the mods didnt agree with you the administration sure won't.

[twin dragon]

and therefore

when tk tp

[terse warren]

Why can't the knight control the void in pharloom but also can do it? Hype moments and aura

[twin dragon]

the void tp too

[twin dragon]

Idk maybe tk just forgot

and then remembered

or maybe the voidheart works differently to the popular interpretation

[terse warren]

I hope to everything TC didn't actually write that

[sinful nimbus]

why is void in pharloom? hype moments and aura

[terse warren]

Well no that doesn't make sense

[twin dragon]

why is pharloom

hype moments and aura

[terse warren]

Because TK can't control the void and has to attack it first but then can't control it just fine

[echo vapor]

the void is every where bro...of course for hype moments and aura

[idle mesa]

land under or sum

[twin dragon]

Likely needs to show dominion cuz the void recognizes tk as its leader and blah blah blah cope

[terse warren]

This wasn't disclosed in the first game

[twin dragon]

cope, cope for the retcon

[foggy stratus]

Personally I feel it just didnt know Void existed in Pharloom. After it learnt amd brought it under its will via force, it now obeys it like Hallownest Void does.

[terse warren]

Let me help

[idle mesa]

not even all of the first game was disclosed in the first game

they had NOTHING

[foggy stratus]

Ok then. Leave. No one is forcing you to stay here.

[idle mesa]

obv hes talking about me

[foggy stratus]

DM them then.

[twin dragon]

Im so cool my aura made him leave

[foggy stratus]

Womp womp.

[echo vapor]

GMS good writing sure did a part too

[terse warren]

You're actually forced to leave

[twin dragon]

she is well written doe

She lacks a bit of like

necessary characterization

in OLD PHARLOOM

[echo vapor]

true

[twin dragon]

old pharloom 2056

just like about

every heart

except gp

[idle mesa]

whos gp

ohhh gay

nvm

[twin dragon]

gay prince

[echo vapor]

he is cool though

[idle mesa]

chat these acronyms may be going too far

[twin dragon]

Yeah neat character

[foggy stratus]

[twin dragon]

buddy blud is not letting it go

[echo vapor]

gp might even be grey prince (zote)

[idle mesa]

gay prince zote

[twin dragon]

gpz common consensus is gpz

not gp

i used an acronym

to describe an acronym

[idle mesa]

lmao

[echo vapor]

[sinful nimbus]

this what real hype moments and aura looks like btw

[twin dragon]

true

[idle mesa]

still funny to me how tc drops

[twin dragon]

void surprise was neat

and that was

[sinful nimbus]

wrong

[twin dragon]

hype moments and aura

[idle mesa]

"shamans always loved void fuck you"

[twin dragon]

Right

[sinful nimbus]

it becomes garbage as soon as void is introduced but ts tuff

[twin dragon]

Nuh uh

[sinful nimbus]

shamans are a callback that make sense to include

[twin dragon]

Id buy it exploration wise but it flows well

[idle mesa]

void was js

[twin dragon]

Except old hearts cuz

[idle mesa]

unessecary

[twin dragon]

no old pharloom expansion

[idle mesa]

it was tuff but

[twin dragon]

Good resource to kill a god ig

cuz

reusing content is so peak amirite

[idle mesa]

true

[echo vapor]

it was just the solution to every threat in return of being a threat itself

[idle mesa]

lace 4 sea of sorrow

[foggy stratus]

SK lore is the way it is just to rage bait us lore goers.

[idle mesa]

its more js

it had no intro

it was kinda thrown on the story

[twin dragon]

Yeah the foreshadowing is non existent

but its presence makes sense to a degree ig

as act 3 is the whole thing about breaking cycles

And yk, chaos

and stuff

[sinful nimbus]

snared silk is

[echo vapor]

deep

[sinful nimbus]

act 3 is a random sidequest about uh void and motherhood

[idle mesa]

i remembered the quote

[twin dragon]

Idk why tc described act 3 as such

ts is NOT how an act 3 works

Excuses to not make it polished

[idle mesa]

true

[echo vapor]

act 3 is just an excuse to introduce all the hard bosses

[idle mesa]

yk what it is

its kinda deus ex machina

truthfully i js wanted to use that but it fits

[sinful nimbus]

Its like how they dumped a bunch of cut content into kingdom's edge but this time its the true ending and all the cool bosses shown in the trailer

[twin dragon]

I mean the element is already known ig

[twin dragon]

Ok but kingdom's edge is peak

im not allowing you to slander that

[sinful nimbus]

Yea it fits much more

[idle mesa]

kingdoms edge is

alr

[sinful nimbus]

Arguably best HK area

[twin dragon]

truth nuke

[idle mesa]

not sure bout that

[sinful nimbus]

Also the wyrm corpse and ash mogs any SS art direction

[twin dragon]

Yes it is

[twin dragon]

nuh uh

[idle mesa]

thats

[twin dragon]

choral chambers mogs hk

[idle mesa]

truth

[sinful nimbus]

choral chambers looks cool

[twin dragon]

i mean to you art direction is good graphics ig idk

[sinful nimbus]

its not as cool as the dragon corpse though

[sinful nimbus]

sometimes

[twin dragon]

10999x more packed with details and visual cues

[sinful nimbus]

some games call for more realistic graphics than others

[twin dragon]

Some games call for uh

uniqueness

and some games that try to be unique call for ue5

[sinful nimbus]

just like how some shows are better as live action than animated

[twin dragon]

and being indie

[idle mesa]

has there ever been a show where this was true

[twin dragon]

not sure what game it could be

[twin dragon]

Example?

[idle mesa]

to my experience the live actions were slightly ok versions of the animated

[twin dragon]

Actually

invincible

or wtv

thats an adaptation

doesnt count

[idle mesa]

difference

a lot of comic adaptations are better usually

[twin dragon]

True

[idle mesa]

now when the invincible live action comes out and they cast timothy chalamet as mark

[sinful nimbus]

I'm not a big show watcher tbh but I think gritty and more grounded shows would benefit from live action no

[idle mesa]

prolly

[sinful nimbus]

I'm not talking about adaptations

[twin dragon]

idk

[idle mesa]

then what

[sinful nimbus]

just... live action stuff bro

[twin dragon]

Usually animated shows have designs with their own set of details

[idle mesa]

so like

irl

you mean irl stuff

[twin dragon]

which is why remakes are slop

most of them at least

[sinful nimbus]

do you know what live action means 😭

[twin dragon]

black mesa my beloved

[idle mesa]

im trying

[sinful nimbus]

Its just any show that records real footage of like real people for fictional purposes

[twin dragon]

Isnt it usually like

variations of shows that were in another format before

[idle mesa]

but whered animated come from

[twin dragon]

but now

irl

[sinful nimbus]

Anyway E33's aesthetic is very unique you should really play it

[twin dragon]

blah blah blah assassin's creed 23884

My 6 gigs of vram will not handle optimization 33

[idle mesa]

slop

[sinful nimbus]

I haven't played AC but I heavily doubt it looks the same judging off of what I've seen

[twin dragon]

oh fuck

AC isnt ue5 game

anyways red living redemption 4983

[sinful nimbus]

There's more to art direction than just the artstyle there's also like the actual setpieces and character designs and overall aesthetic

[twin dragon]

Valid

veeeeery valid

[twin dragon]

Graphics and artstyle arent the same guh

[sinful nimbus]

E33 wouldn't really have the same tone and overall vibe without its realistic characters

[sinful nimbus]

E33's artstyle needs good graphics cuz its a realistic one

[twin dragon]

It looks a bit generic and it detracts a bit

[twin dragon]

Yeah but not to a point of like

[sinful nimbus]

It doesn't look particularly generic its a pretty surreal game

[twin dragon]

looking exactly like the avg ue5 game

with the same lighting and stuff

I miss when devs had to apply lighting carefully so their game would age well

[sinful nimbus]

In the sense that the artstyle is realistic sure but like that's just cuz that's how reality looks?

[twin dragon]

Oh

Yeah i get it

its supposed to be a dreamscape for coping

It makes sense

[sinful nimbus]

No one critiques lord of the rings or breaking bad for being live action

[twin dragon]

but at the same time

even if its realistic

it still looks a bit too bound to ue5 specifically

idk if you get me

[sinful nimbus]

I don't know many UE5 games but that might be the lighting

[twin dragon]

YES! that's it

yk why hl2 is so timeless

cuz the lighting is good

[sinful nimbus]

the lighting is like gorgeous though

[twin dragon]

Yeah but i cant possibly think of any other game that has a shot exactly like this

Im not saying its bad

it feels just

bland