sk-lore

[kindred ingot]

as in, you'd really not want to have this guy as your biological father, but being raised by him is awesome

[hard widget]

And white lady remembers her time with him incredibly fondly

[unique tangle]

They only do that if you believe what Hornet says about pale beings

[sinful nimbus]

That's called a wedding ring

[unique tangle]

Pale Beings were NOT like this back in HK

[kindred ingot]

wedding charm

[stray grove]

https://tenor.com/view/ihykeon-math-spongebob-fish-sponge-plus-star-equals-clam-gif-24207116

[unique tangle]

Hornet is straight up making up stuff about PBs in SS

[hard widget]

Well yeah cuz we only had 2 who were married and six rocks

[sinful nimbus]

Kingsoul is just a magic wedding ring it doesn't literally contain their souls

[lone folio]

He's such a good dad that his one and only daughter is calling him an idiot in her journal

[stray grove]

WHAT are we saying gng 🥀

[hard widget]

It symbolizes the Union of two higher beings and contains limitless soul

[kindred ingot]

he's a good dad, he's just a bit stupid

[stray grove]

“He was a good dad but a bad father” ?????????

[sinful nimbus]

PK was a bad dad but it doesn't make much sense to judge him on that

[lone folio]

Truth nuke

[stray grove]

He never got the chance to be a dad bruh

[kindred ingot]

he raised his live children very well, but his live children/dead children ratio was comically low

[stray grove]

THK was a TOOL the intent was never to raise it as a child

[hard widget]

Tbh he did raise and train one kid to prime form

[stray grove]

HE HAD NO LIVE CHILDREN

[hard widget]

We don’t know how he interacted with Hornet

[kindred ingot]

and yet he did, and that instilled an idea and blah blah blah death of all the kingdom

[kindred ingot]

Hornet:

[stray grove]

Literally not what happened

[unique tangle]

Yeah and out of the two, both of them were pretty decent, I mean arguably WL was worse since she annexed part of greenpath but there’s literally nothing of “devotion or destruction” stuff that Hornet was blabbing about to GP

[stray grove]

PK having a heart doesn’t mean he intended to raise THK as a child what

[kindred ingot]

rocks?

[stray grove]

He still stuck it in the Black Egg

[hard widget]

Pale ore

[unique tangle]

PK wanted devotion yeah, but he didn’t dominate the other tribes for it

[stray grove]

That he came to form a bond with it is immaterial

Holy shit HK fans ACTUALLY cannot read

[kindred ingot]

those are pale, but they are for sure not "beings"

[edgy nebula]

"you pale beings live by devotion or domination" meanwhile it was genuine sunshine and rainbows in hallownes

[stray grove]

Not what that line means either

[hard widget]

I’ve argued this point in the past that while the pale king used diplomacy whenever he could he still absolutely craves domination and worship at the expense of others

[opal cliff]

none of you are considering the nuance

[sinful nimbus]

capitalizing tool activates the sleeper agent in me

[lone folio]

None of us are considering precept 37

[unique tangle]

Yeah and that’s why he left the religion of Unn untouched even though their god was clearly diminished and the religion was collapsing

[hard widget]

It’s the only other real mention of pale something in the first game and is thus worth nothing in the context of pale beings in hk vs sk

[stray grove]

No people just can’t read

That’s not what Hornet is saying

[hard widget]

I always attributed the weakening of unn to the arrival of the pale king and the ensuing rise of the infection both stripping away her influence over her people

[sinful nimbus]

Hornet's #1 Defender thank you for your service mate

[hard widget]

Too much noise clouding Unn’s worship

[opal cliff]

its all a metaphor you see

[edgy nebula]

it is but not intentionally

[opal cliff]

the themes and such

[sinful nimbus]

for masculinity

[edgy nebula]

pk was the most enticing god in the kingdom most everyone followed him when he came

[hard widget]

It’s not intentional but the end result is the same. Diminished influence of other gods outside of the pale ones and vengeful gods coming out of the woodwork to wreck the sandbox

[stray grove]

Look I hate Hornet as much as the next guy in fact I probably hate her more but when we hate on her for stupid reasons it dilutes the actual plentiful reasons we have to clown TC’s awful writing

[unique tangle]

Probably, but that’s not Pale King’s fault? He didn’t actively tear down her church and forbid worship of her

[spark valve]

truth nuke

[stray grove]

I don’t love the GP dialogue either but it’s not hard to understand what she’s saying there

[hard widget]

The pale king thought he could be a pale being differently from the other dominating ones, but the result was the same

What good to foresee a demise unavoidable

[sinful nimbus]

PK's arrival did not take away her influence or people

[sinful nimbus]

Do not call me a traitor... Simply call me a fool

You are the darkness... Come to consume me

[stray grove]

Taking dialogue out of context competition lmao

[edgy nebula]

i need to read up on lore more ive been too busy playing good games

[hard widget]

Pale king slapping a road through the kingdom, giving his wife half of their land and monomon a cool thrid. and provoking the infection did them in

[stray grove]

Tammo you seeing this shit

[hard widget]

He didn’t but after he showed up and built his kingdom her worship died just the same

[stray grove]

Star you can’t read either ion fw u no more

[sinful nimbus]

Unn was implied to be losing land by the time that WL and Monomon moved in and the road was not against Unn's will nor would it contribute to her losing people or influence

[stray grove]

Go join Nubbie and the others

[opal cliff]

no hollow knight fans can read

[edgy nebula]

what does the full context of the devotion or destruction line mean

[sinful nimbus]

I LOVE ACT 3 😍

[hard widget]

I’m just glad I can put my English degree to use in here

[lone folio]

The only time that TC made a good character is Trobbio

[sinful nimbus]

Its not an ultimatum pale beings give its just the only real outcomes possible from their rule

[edgy nebula]

the hearts and shamans were so cool! There is no Void in Pharloom.

[spark valve]

you should try to get a refund

[edgy nebula]

yeah fair

[spark valve]

anyways yeah it's about the consequences of centralizing power

[sinful nimbus]

oh ok. Well I have a job and a degree and a comfortable sense of self, and apparently a better sense of the outer political world than the chat in here, so this criticism doesn't really penetrate so deeply. Keep calling me names if you think it will help 🗣️ 🗣️ 🗣️

[hard widget]

See I don’t think I need to. If anything I just need to get better at framing my arguments

And probably sober up tbh

[sinful nimbus]

I have an English degree and literally yes, I do think language is not just about output but also about how it is taken in. That should not be controversial either

sorry I had to

[edgy nebula]

when sixty eighth sentinel throws away their booze it's like rock lee taking off his weights

[opal cliff]

i didnt know wittgenstein was in this chat

[sinful nimbus]

these are my favorite copypastas ever

[stray grove]

I understand that most of you are not in that particular field of study so I would understand that you don't grasp my point in the same manner. So I'll put it like this. There's always a non zero chance the game will be bad but in the case of team cherry that non zero chance is higher because games with a similar development cycle have proven it to be so

[hard widget]

The real treasure was the language games we played along the way

[stray grove]

Wait wtf that guy was actually onto something

[opal cliff]

if a lion could speak we could not understand him

[spark valve]

and as it turns out if they just released in 2021 or whenever it woulda been better

[unique tangle]

Was he wrong tho???

[sinful nimbus]

https://tenor.com/view/bowser-painting-true-false-nuke-gif-8556939619987883094

[edgy nebula]

i do think if someone gets part of silksong's lore wrong we should correct them

[opal cliff]

im kind of like wittgensteins lion

[hard widget]

It would’ve been more like hollow knight if they did

For better and for worse

I love the blasted steps

[edgy nebula]

blasted steps is a shell of coral gorge's grandeur

[unique tangle]

Team “who even needs to play test their game” Cherry

[sinful nimbus]

look who was doubting my man

[unique tangle]

https://tenor.com/view/what-did-he-see-meme-baby-yoda-grogu-gif-2832531689923165674

[stray grove]

I’m proud to say I was always a hater

[hard widget]

That’s why I love it honestly. I never kept up with the Silksong hype and tried to be spoiler free but I just love the thematic weight the sand swept steps and the judges carry

Really made the final climb to the citadel special

Also the wind and the soundtrack

Chefs kiss

I will brook no hate to Christopher Larkin

[opal cliff]

thematic weight and silksong in the same context wrap it up buddy

[sinful nimbus]

I thought you were a silksong fan

[hard widget]

Silksong fans fucking hate their game goddamn

[lone folio]

Yeah, the "we add stuff that we think is cool" has seemed to backfire a bit. Like why add wisp thicket? What does it add to the game? It's literally worthless gameplay wise and just adds confusion.

[stray grove]

Perhaps I was… a SilksongFan…

[unique tangle]

Counterpoint: who cares about themes, this is the silksong community

[edgy nebula]

holy shit are you the crawfather guy

[opal cliff]

themes and such

[hard widget]

I care! Even if it makes me a goofy goober

And not the husk of a cynic

[sinful nimbus]

gameplay > art direction/music > story maybe a hot take idk

[hard widget]

To be corny is to be genuine ❤️

[hard widget]

No that’s just objectively true

[opal cliff]

i dont have an english degree what does this mean

[sinful nimbus]

that's why coral gorge was on top ❤️‍🩹

[opal cliff]

sorry idek why im hating

[hard widget]

I added the word husk cuz bug husk cuz Silksong

Themes and such

Maybe I liked Silksong’s story so much cuz I was deeply stoned for my first playthrough lol

[stray grove]

I have traveled far, over vesper peaks and fields of thorns. Past plains of blades undying. It was only in silence that I finally found salvation

[sinful nimbus]

Thank you... Silksong

Silksong?

Um... because you used PV's soul spells

What?

[unique tangle]

At least TC made good gameplay…

[edgy nebula]

there mustve been a few insane character arcs while ive been gone

silksongfan and starpengu getting along breaks my mind

[hard widget]

I still really like the story even if it’s a little frayed around the edges

[stray grove]

Wow that must’ve been a really good bit Star

Good job

[sinful nimbus]

Thanks twin

Can I be back on the team 🥹

[stray grove]

Idk

[hard widget]

And I’ll defend my viewpoints to the death unless someone starts making too much sense lol

[stray grove]

List five SS themes

[hard widget]

Hornet’s justification to gilly is a little stupid isn’t it

[opal cliff]

starpengu really thinks shes part of team 😭😭😭

[unique tangle]

List five things that don’t exist

[edgy nebula]

hornet gained proper brain damage during act 3

[sinful nimbus]

Good mothers are good
Bad mothers are bad

Shoot idk man

[spark valve]

racism is cool if they smell bad

[stray grove]

Yeah good enough you’re on

[edgy nebula]

motherhood, motherhood, motherhood, motherhood, and motherhood

https://tenor.com/view/checkmate-chess-drake-chess-drake-meme-j-cole-gif-10298418990602007648

[hard widget]

There’s not a single good father in the hollow knight universe

[unique tangle]

Where’s the obligatory “religion bad”

[sinful nimbus]

woah lets not get political

[unique tangle]

Crawfather:

[hard widget]

He’s the head of an organized crime ring

[stray grove]

Bell Hermit was a good father to his son the Seeker

[unique tangle]

Yeah and that’s why he’s the goat

[edgy nebula]

he's a judge

[hard widget]

Having a law degree doesn’t make you a good person

[edgy nebula]

a judge who summoned pharloom's greatest evil to court

[opal cliff]

what is the lore reason for red tools being terribly implemented

[edgy nebula]

that makes him a good dad

[spark valve]

hornet's incompetent

[stray grove]

Themes and such

[sinful nimbus]

Hornet played Sekiro

[hard widget]

He didn’t even provide hornets with a crawlawyer

[unique tangle]

Motherhood

[opal cliff]

https://tenor.com/view/willem-dafoe-american-psycho-oh-obviously-donald-kimball-gif-10547554943860686477

[hard widget]

Trobbio was not there

[edgy nebula]

she brought a deadly weapon to a courtroom

[stray grove]

Why did Hornet even turn up lol

[lone folio]

Motherhood, drugs, relationships, religion, wisp thicket

[hard widget]

Guilt

[unique tangle]

She smelled blood

[opal cliff]

motherhood

[unique tangle]

Why does Hornet even do anything in act 3? It’s cause she’s out to kill people

[stray grove]

But she didn’t accept her sentencing she just killed everyone and left

[unique tangle]

Like why did she even kill watcher???

[hard widget]

It’s a pretty convincing statement of innocence

[edgy nebula]

something something a life standing watch over a dead kingdom is no life at all so he had to die

[unique tangle]

Made a species extinct for themes and such ig

[hard widget]

Wasn’t he already effectively dead until we bring him back

[opal cliff]

hornet doesnt leave witnesses

[sinful nimbus]

Crawfather reminded her of her dad

[lone folio]

Because he had something that would look good on her shelf

[edgy nebula]

how tc feels implementing a worse second sentinel in karak for no reason

[opal cliff]

fatherhood

[sinful nimbus]

WATE is there for aura farming

[hard widget]

That’s fucking Impossible to find

[stray grove]

Hornet’s reasons for doing anything in act 3 range from comical to comical

[hard widget]

How are you supposed to find watcher at the edge without guides

[opal cliff]

hype moments and aura

[unique tangle]

Hey Nuu gives a hint, it’s definitely the player’s fault and not bad game design

[stray grove]

tbf nobody in act 3 knows why they’re doing anything

Don’t ask Seth why he’s killing old ladies trying to get to church

[hard widget]

Except Vog

Compete for title. Nothing else matters.

[opal cliff]

genuinely tho

[unique tangle]

Don’t forget that it’s the church that said old ladies built themselves

[hard widget]

I think Hornet is 100% justified killing green prince because I Hate Him

[unique tangle]

And then Seth just comes in and is like “nuh uh”

This is no longer yours

[edgy nebula]

https://giphy.com/gifs/loud-cnstix-ears-hurt-9eYYZ1469KmdFXQ4VE

[hard widget]

And moralityscalers HAVE to agree cuz otherwise karmelita is the 3rd heart

[stray grove]

https://tenor.com/view/who-is-he-who-is-that-peppa-pig-gif-13606975557282567491

[hard widget]

He’s a weepy nihilistic romeo type and I knew too many of these in high school to put up with it in my comfort game

[lone folio]

Seth could of been a good character

[limpid summit]

I think Hornet is justified in killing Green Prince regardless

[stray grove]

Oh fucking hell not this guy

[limpid summit]

Although I get hating him

Understandable

[stray grove]

???

[lone folio]

Then he just becomes quirrel 2.0 but worse

[stray grove]

How is she justified in killing him dude WHAT

[limpid summit]

It populates verdania again

He’s an old ass dude tying his land down

[sinful nimbus]

not canon

[opal cliff]

kill 8 billion bugs

[limpid summit]

Nothing for him in this life

[unique tangle]

And she definitely knew this in advance

thank you Hornet!!!

[limpid summit]

Yeah she’s a bad person

[hard widget]

He’s just gonna sit there in his cave and die anyways. It’s a net zero from leaving him in his cage to rot he does nothing with his second chance at life

[limpid summit]

I’m not saying she’s justified for doing it

I’m saying the outcome was good

[opal cliff]

this is basically Canada's healthcare mantra

[limpid summit]

Killing Karmelita would be justified if she said “I mercy killed her” instead of being like lmao this’ll help me beat lost lace

[unique tangle]

All I’m saying is that if Hornet was supposed to be character accurate, then we should’ve had the option to cut down the clovers too

Screw verdania

[limpid summit]

This is true

[hard widget]

I wish they had the same thing of the far fields dying and being reborn more clearly

[stray grove]

Which is the OPPOSITE effect of what taking hearts normally does and definitely not something she had prior knowledge of
She literally invaded the guy’s dream without his consent and her response to being asked politely to just leave was to lecture the poor guy on why it’s not that bad actually and then fucking kill him

[limpid summit]

If she was character accurate she would have killed second sentinel

That’s not what happened

Bad agenda

He didn’t politely ask her to leave

[edgy nebula]

his husband died bro

and then his kingdom died too

[limpid summit]

He was talking about some other BS and she went and rambled platitudes to him and he said I’m gonna kill you

[kindred ingot]

what' the topic now

[hard widget]

Hey at least Hornet gets to carry on the memory of the beauty of verdania instead of letting all knowledge of it die in a cave

[stray grove]

Like I’m sorry even if Hornet figured the dude had nothing going for him just taking shit into her own hands and killing him when he presented absolutely no desire for her to do so is ???

[limpid summit]

She’s an empath

[stray grove]

No he told her to leave

[limpid summit]

She knows what he wants more than he does

[stray grove]

Read bro

[unique tangle]

He’s LYING

[kindred ingot]

she's kind of the opposite of an empath

[stray grove]

Yeah I’m an empath too time to start murdering sad old people

[limpid summit]

He said no more talk

He didn’t say go away

[unique tangle]

He wants her to rip his heart out as a souvenir

[limpid summit]

He doesn’t get angry if you play a song on the needolin

[unique tangle]

You don’t jnderstandddd

[opal cliff]

there's probably some more steps she could've taken before murder

[hard widget]

His husband naively offered himself up to the citadel and his lands fell to the pale god who wanted it for windmills. Incredibly tragic. But instead of doing literally anything about it he sits in a cage for an age. It’s only when he’s freed does he sigh and get up and actually do something, only to return to dwell on the past once more

[kindred ingot]

"please don't free me" "ok" frees him
"please leave me alone" "ok" follows him
"please get out of my head" "ok" kills him

[limpid summit]

TK is bad for killing defenseless maggots

[stray grove]

Dude she entered his dream without his consent and once he realizes he’s like “yo wtf I never consented to this” 😐

[edgy nebula]

he does say that shes trespassing which implies she should book it

[stray grove]

Stop being an idiot they’re infected

[kindred ingot]

TK is a morally neutral force of nature

[limpid summit]

Yeah then he attacks her

[hard widget]

TK is morally evil for eating the dream spirits

[limpid summit]

She doesn’t disobey him in that moment

[kindred ingot]

also the maggots are infected

[limpid summit]

And TK knows that how

[kindred ingot]

they bleed orange

[edgy nebula]

theyre not a threat at all

[limpid summit]

Before attacking them

[edgy nebula]

they run tf away

[unique tangle]

TK can never do anything wrong cause i like them

[kindred ingot]

they don't

[stray grove]

Dude why are you begging the question

[limpid summit]

They don’t look infected

[stray grove]

You have nothing to say

This isn’t about TK

[limpid summit]

Wdym nothing to say

[kindred ingot]

and yet they attack the maggots cuz the Knight has no sense of morals

[limpid summit]

I don’t like Hornet or GP

I just like you even less

[hard widget]

LMAO

[limpid summit]

Yeah that was tuff right

Haha

I got him

[opal cliff]

feels the aura

[stray grove]

https://tenor.com/view/yuta-yuta-okkotsu-rika-jujutsu-kaisen-yuta-jjk-gif-6106836881169266148

[limpid summit]

https://tenor.com/view/ryu-ryu-ishigori-jujutsu-kaisen-ryu-jjk-jujutsu-kaisen-season-3-gif-7744492609538646669

[kindred ingot]

Hornet is a pretty awful person and that's undeniable

[hard widget]

Nah it was rude as fuck but goddamn it was a clapback

And with that line I am morally in the clear

[stray grove]

“clapback” 🥀

[edgy nebula]

how the buried shaman feels being saved from tk by taking a nap

[opal cliff]

i mean she does risk her life on the daily purely altruistically

[hard widget]

[opal cliff]

maybe shes like two-face

[hard widget]

Hornet is a hunter and lives as such. But she’s also a princess and wants what’s best for the poor bugs caught between the battles of the gods

[limpid summit]

So I am freed, despite no request of mine for aid.

Hornet: And I do not ask gratitude. The key merely fit the lock. If you choose, stay in here and wait till your shell hardens to crust.

She does things for kicks

It’s not about his wishes

[edgy nebula]

hornet's terrible childhood and 150 foot fall gave her a traumatic brain injury and two personalities

[opal cliff]

this is canon, its in the lore

[hard widget]

Eating seven people’s identities and a bunch of weavers probably didn’t help

[stray grove]

Dude do you understand how there’s a big difference between freeing a prisoner who doesn’t care about being saved and fucking killing someone because you think they’re sad

[limpid summit]

Why is it barely talked about that GMS fought the bugs around her

[stray grove]

Do not seek to console me, warrior... This memory is mine alone... I'll not brook your brutish intrusion...

[kindred ingot]

she's also racist, slightly homophobic, kills bugs for fun, annoying, disrespects people's wishes, resorts to violence at any inconvenience, ect ect ect

[hard widget]

Hornet’s got a lot of new marbles rolling around in her head since entering pharloom

[limpid summit]

They are sad

Did you play the game

[opal cliff]

how is she homophobic what

[stray grove]

That doesn’t mean he wanted to die man

It doesn’t mean he wanted HER to kill him

[lone folio]

Okay but like if a murderer started killing other murderers and then proceeded to kill a random grandma would he still be a good person 🤔

[hard widget]

Green prince murder

[stray grove]

Or invade his memories without his consent

[kindred ingot]

she calls Green Prince vain for dating a guy that looks like him

[opal cliff]

r u baiting or an idiot

[hard widget]

Yeah I’d say that merits as slightly homophobic

Only slightly though

[stray grove]

It’s just weirdly written

It’s not homophobic because Hornet is bisexual

[opal cliff]

no it doesnt 😭

[edgy nebula]

if you kill gp as a 4th heart that means hornet canonically did it for no reason

[kindred ingot]

Hornet is the first homophobic lesbian ever

[unique tangle]

Literally the entirety of silksong’s script:

[hard widget]

She’s just dissing the man for his type

[kindred ingot]

she just felt like it

[opal cliff]

theres vanity in finding traits u display attractive shes not like wow this guys gaaaaaay

[unique tangle]

Hornet doesn’t even get to play the lesbian card, that’s a headcanon

[kindred ingot]

"hm... this old gay guy's heart would look very pretty on my wall"

[hard widget]

Margaret thatcher

[kindred ingot]

who?

[stray grove]

Why did they make him gay, woke nonsense

[limpid summit]

Hornet isn’t homophobic

[hard widget]

I mean that’s the most knowledge of verdania anyone is going to get

[kindred ingot]

they made Green Prince gay so that Hornet could be homophobic

[foggy fractal]

She's racist

[limpid summit]

When the character you don’t like has a valid reason to dislike them

[opal cliff]

if anything this is queer affirming she thinks gay peoples hearts are especially beautiful

but none of u see the nuance like i do

the themes and such

[hard widget]

I headcanon all the heart bearers as gay except for Nyleth who is asexual

[stray grove]

Hornet’s lovers were probably all rich white dudes

[edgy nebula]

flashback to that one time i saw a gp theory on youtube where a guy theorized gp's lover wasnt even real

[kindred ingot]

I... I don't think killing a gay guy and hanging his heart on your wall as a trophy is very queer-affirming

[opal cliff]

daddy issues

[hard widget]

Nah they were probably other freaky ass hunters

[lone folio]

Schizophrenia

[kindred ingot]

"white" nah man, she avoids white bugs, they remind her of her father

[foggy stratus]

They were bees.

[hard widget]

Hornet has a type and it’s someone who could conceivably kill her

[opal cliff]

u have to consider the nuance

[unique tangle]

If they ever let Hornet back into hallownest, she should have the ability to tear out the hearts of the nailsmith and sheo

Please TC make this happen

[edgy nebula]

their main proof for the theory was ndd dialogue next to tbe mirror in gp's house and hornet's journal entry

[hard widget]

Look at how she talks about shakra

[limpid summit]

“Happy Hearts”

[kindred ingot]

ok so Shakra

[limpid summit]

Could Hornet even beat Sheo

[hard widget]

Clearly

[stray grove]

Probably not prime Sheo

[hard widget]

I’d say so but it wouldn’t be an easy fight for her

[limpid summit]

Prime Sheo is current Sheo

[opal cliff]

hornet is pale lurker fodder

[spark valve]

idk if current sheo is weaker

[limpid summit]

Yeah

[stray grove]

He’s old

[lone folio]

Hornet returns to hallownest and kills elder bug because he sneezed 3 decibels to high

[hard widget]

Prime sheo is probably close to shakra’s master in strength

[limpid summit]

But painting switched up his fighting style

[foggy stratus]

Prime Sheo would be if he had a Nail.

[limpid summit]

He’s stronger than his bros

[spark valve]

are the nailmasters old enough to be losing abilities don't think so

[kindred ingot]

she likes younger women who could potentially kill her

[hard widget]

Scratch that. Prime shoe is probably toe to toe with shakra in strength. Sky is close to shakra’s master

[limpid summit]

Problematic age gap

[hard widget]

Sheo is not stronger than sly

[opal cliff]

the nail masters always seemed old to me

[kindred ingot]

prime shoe

[opal cliff]

past their prime at least

[hard widget]

lol

[kindred ingot]

they are older than Isma is dead

[unique tangle]

This is the perfect opportunity to bring up lace again

[hard widget]

Prime Sly probably barely loses to Hornet act 3

[opal cliff]

in their design and such obviously not anything tangible

[stray grove]

Well they were alive during the golden age of Hallownest, Sly was also around at that time (and likely in his prime) and he’s a lot weaker now
Unless they have similar ish lifespans and he’s significantly older than they are I would say they’re pretty old, Nailsmith who is implied to be a similar age to Sheo is also clearly very old

[limpid summit]

What was Shakra’s masters craft skill

[limpid summit]

True…

[kindred ingot]

Lace and Hornet's age gap is probably less problematic than Hornet and Shakra's

[hard widget]

Shakra is the opposite of lace. Mentally mature but barely alive compared to lace and hornet

[limpid summit]

Who knows how old lace really is

[stray grove]

Also when we fight Sheo in Godhome that’s not necessarily a reflection of his current abilities, attunement raises them to their prime form

[spark valve]

is sly weaker now

[kindred ingot]

Lace is chronologically old af, just really really childish to compensate

[limpid summit]

Older than Shakra for sure but like

Probably conductor era

[opal cliff]

its called being locked in

[spark valve]

oh right sprintmaster

well sly is older than nailmasters anyways

[kindred ingot]

which is already really old

[hard widget]

I’d say hall of gods sly represents his prime due to the effect of godly focus

[stray grove]

Sprintmaster

[spark valve]

🐌

[kindred ingot]

Pharloom is probably dead for longer than Hallownest

[stray grove]

Yes but they’re also old

[hard widget]

Otherwise PV and absrad doesn’t make a ton of sense

[stray grove]

They’re a similar ish age, Nailsmith is also implied to be a similar age and is clearly old

[hard widget]

The hall of gods versions we see are thus the peak of that warriors fitness

[stray grove]

Golden age was a very long time ago

[kindred ingot]

every single HK1 npc is old af

[stray grove]

Everyone who was around during that time seems to have gotten weaker, Sly, Ogrim, etc

Exceptions are like Hornet

[kindred ingot]

most Silksong npcs are young af

[hard widget]

Except fucking elderbug 😭😭

[spark valve]

who's just weak

[kindred ingot]

he's as old as Old Stag, probably

still very old

[hard widget]

Hornet’s only weak in HK because BlueSR isn’t piloting her

[stray grove]

Which is why I think prime Sheo packs her up

Prime Sly definitely does

[kindred ingot]

Green Prince is older than every Weaver

Green Prince is older than Hornet's mom

and that fucks me up

[hard widget]

Huge disagree on this just based on pantheon placements

[stray grove]

I mean no

[hard widget]

Which is at least semi indicative of strength

I think hornet and sly are very close in terms of strength

[kindred ingot]

Verdania (and therefore Green Prince) is from a time before GMS ascended the Weavers

[hard widget]

But Hornet beats sheo

[stray grove]

The princes probably aren’t actually that old, the hearts aren’t individuals who have been around since before GMS they’re just the last to have inherited that power

[sinful nimbus]

no eyes stronger than hornet 🤔

[kindred ingot]

ok true

[hard widget]

This wouldn’t explain his memories of verdania predating silk’s rule though, which they do

[kindred ingot]

that'd mean Palestag is just one of many palestags tho

[stray grove]

We don’t know how old they are relative to weavers

[sinful nimbus]

actually I'll except white defender and traitor lord being stronger

[kindred ingot]

since every ruler of Verdania would have had to kill one to prove themself worthy

[stray grove]

They predate the citadel which was more recent

[opal cliff]

traitor lord is not beating gms bro

[stray grove]

GMS didn’t actually interact with Verdania directly

[sinful nimbus]

Neither is hornet

[hard widget]

White defender probably, traitor lord lore wise is also a maybe

[opal cliff]

the agenda is going too far

[kindred ingot]

GMS didn't start doing shit until the Weavers came to exist

[hard widget]

Hmm yeah true

[kindred ingot]

Ogrim probably trained Hornet

[stray grove]

GMS never really did anything

[sinful nimbus]

bro first it was vespa and now ogrim

[hard widget]

Yeah if Hornet was in white palace she was def sparring with the knights

[stray grove]

Verdania’s destruction was a downstream effect of her rule it wasn’t a direct one

[kindred ingot]

she kept the Citadel working after the Weavers left and the Conductors died

[sinful nimbus]

back in the day we thought weavers trained her what happened to that

[opal cliff]

https://tenor.com/view/whatever-happened-there-gif-18240822558998438526

[spark valve]

literally the opposite of what happens in game

[kindred ingot]

I mean, Hornet used to go to the White Palace, it is expected that the Great Knights would train her

[stray grove]

The last conductor isn’t dead also that’s the opposite of what she does

[hard widget]

I always thought the citadel crushed verdania like they did the coral tribe and the pinstresses. Overwhelmed with numbers and forces then seized

[kindred ingot]

I mean, the Citadel is still working properly in Silksong

[stray grove]

The citadel never fought the coral tribe either that’s fanon

[sinful nimbus]

I don't think the king's most loyal knight and that traitorous bum would get along

[hard widget]

This isn’t true

[kindred ingot]

they were actively trying to keep Verdania alive

[hard widget]

Doesn’t khann say they were the last to stand against the silken light?

[stray grove]

Karak and Verdania both got devastated as a downstream effect of the Citadel and by extension GMS’ actions

[stray grove]

Yet another line people love to take out of context

[hard widget]

No, they preserved it in the memorium. Whole different can of worms

[sinful nimbus]

What happened to Karak

[hard widget]

You say this a lot

[kindred ingot]

yeah, the Silken Light specifically, not the Citadel
(also the mental image of Khann raging war against GMS is too cool for me)

[stray grove]

As cool as it is it never happened

[opal cliff]

tf is khann gonna do bro is washed

[sinful nimbus]

khann would pack up the weavers instantly

[kindred ingot]

he has a whole army

[stray grove]

Khann never fought GMS

[stray grove]

Citadel dried up the water source

[hard widget]

I always assumed the silken light was representative of the forces wielding silk I.e. the citadel

[kindred ingot]

they were against the Pale Light tho

[sinful nimbus]

How

[hard widget]

So silk wasn’t directly responsible herself but forced using her power was

[opal cliff]

chatgpt

[stray grove]

You are begging the question

Fym how

[sinful nimbus]

You don't even know bro

[stray grove]

Industrialization lol

[opal cliff]

i imagine the same way any industrial society uses water

[sinful nimbus]

Nothing happened to Karak TC could change their mind any day

[opal cliff]

yea

what kirb said

[stray grove]

Karak’s destruction was yet another downstream effect of their rule

This is like the main theme of the game

[hard widget]

I mean they established their rule with force though

[kindred ingot]

yes that all happened, AND Khann was against GMS personally

both can be true

[sinful nimbus]

Is it

[stray grove]

What are we saying

Karak denied her rule but they didn’t literally go and fight her

[opal cliff]

its a reference to the Aral sea

[kindred ingot]

I mean, Pharloom's pre-Citadel culture has a lot against Pale Beings in general

[hard widget]

The main theme of Silksong is how working together in the face of hardship and not depending on blind faith is the correct way to run a society

Sherma is the main theme of Silksong

[opal cliff]

silksongs main theme is friendship is magic thats epic

[kindred ingot]

I'd expect him to, considering it makes sense

[hard widget]

Community is magic*

Hammer and sickle emoji

[sinful nimbus]

silksong's main theme is that you should abuse your children by making them grow up strong instead of making them a weak child forever

[kindred ingot]

finally, some communist representation

[stray grove]

Also we know Karak hadn’t dried up by the time the Citadel came into power as the Memorium exhibits wouldn’t make any sense if that were the case so the notion that GMS specifically did that doesn’t make any sense either

[hard widget]

Training your kid to use a sword in a fantasy kingdom isn’t abuse!!!!

[sinful nimbus]

thanks bro

[hard widget]

If anyone was abusive to hornet it was the weavers who tried to shape her destiny to be some savior for them

[opal cliff]

https://tenor.com/view/willem-dafoe-american-psycho-oh-obviously-donald-kimball-gif-10547554943860686477

[kindred ingot]

he literally says he is "against the pale light", it is a part of pre-Citadel culture to be against Pale Beings, he has a big ass army and no one else to use it against

[hard widget]

All of the other three moms just wanted her to be strong enough to forge her own path

So they gave her the tools and training to be strong

[sinful nimbus]

bro white lady assumed her method of parenting would make Hornet see her as distant and cold

[kindred ingot]

I'm not saying GMS specifically did that, I'm just saying Khann was against GMS AND, mostly unrelatedly, Karak dried up due to the Citadel

[edgy nebula]

i feel like karak did dry up because of the citadel but instead they plugged the water instead of actually using it

[opal cliff]

genuinely what does forge your own path even mean

did they want her to be a wandering vagrant or something

[edgy nebula]

to live by your own values and to be what you want to be

[hard widget]

Well I mean she was a wandering vagrant for a while

[hard widget]

But this

This is forging your own path

[opal cliff]

i think you can teach a child independent critical thinking and autonomy in a way that isnt stupid

did they raise her with the expectation that she was to live outside of the community or what

[spark valve]

what like providing a healthy nurturing environment that wouldn't cause the child to assume you're being cruel and neglectful?

[sinful nimbus]

didn't white lady have a child soldier defending her garden why are we defending her parenting

[hard widget]

Yeah cuz training someone to overcome hardship is hard and grueling work. It’s like making your kid do sports or do their homework or eat their vegetables, it’s stuff that sucks but is ultimately good for them

[stray grove]

You can make the argument that Karak as a civilization fell during GMS era but only dried up during Citadel era but idk why you would, also if there were a large scale conflict that took place you’d expect to see literally any evidence of it and I already explained why the pale light quote doesn’t necessarily imply that

Ultimately it falling during the conductor era aligns best with the facts but the game more or less explicitly says it doesn’t really matter

[opal cliff]

that would be too simple

[sinful nimbus]

that is not what they wrote tf

its probably the intent

[edgy nebula]

dryya was a child??

[stray grove]

Marmu

[edgy nebula]

oh

[hard widget]

I’ll go with the intent cuz that’s what TC actually meant

[opal cliff]

its less so the aim and more-so what the end of it was supposed to be

[spark valve]

https://tenor.com/view/metal-gear-rising-hmm-thinking-smile-gif-12571277

[hard widget]

I’ll throw TC a bone to more adequately enjoy a game that I like

[stray grove]

You can like SS while also acknowledging the writing has a lot of issues

[opal cliff]

like yea your child should be independent lmao but why are you raising her with this weird pre-existing expectation that she is to leave and forge her own destiny whatever that means

[sinful nimbus]

ofc I was making a joke

[edgy nebula]

how did thk’s shell change if their shell is technically just a dead child

[spark valve]

would hornet be less racist and more well adjusted if she had positive parental figures

[stray grove]

At the end of the day nobody really cares about MV stories anyway

[opal cliff]

can the white lady just be normal

[edgy nebula]

how did the dead child skin grow

[stray grove]

Magic

[hard widget]

This is true! I can also choose to acknowledge that despite the terrible presentation what they meant actually is quite good and has a lot of value

[sinful nimbus]

E33 best narrative 2025 😛

[edgy nebula]

https://tenor.com/view/ishowspeed-ishowspeed-yeah-right-ishowspeed-yeah-ishowspeed-right-ishowspeed-stream-gif-2870397197282141259

[stray grove]

No like genuinely it’s just magic

Vessels shells are magic and PK/WL are literal deities with magic powers

[spark valve]

sometimes the fantasy media is just fantasy media

[sinful nimbus]

WL growth magic

Why are you vagueposting we have a real answer

[stray grove]

That’s the same answer

[sinful nimbus]

More specific

[edgy nebula]

vessels should be able to use root powers

[kindred ingot]

visual representation of what Khann was up to before the Citadel dried out Karak

[stray grove]

Magic: 😴
WL growth magic: 😎

[hard widget]

I mean the hive and Deepnest are both deeply xenophobic

[opal cliff]

soul induced cell division

[edgy nebula]

i do wonder how karak allowed the citadel to be built

[sinful nimbus]

how does the infection work
magic
thanks bro

[stray grove]

They couldn’t do anything about it

[opal cliff]

xenomorphs are pretty scary

[edgy nebula]

if they had half of pharloom they definitely had the citadel’s land before it was built

[stray grove]

Holy false equivalence

[hard widget]

The weavers were pretty damn powerful

[sinful nimbus]

he asked for a mechanism bro

[kindred ingot]

I mean, they were the strongest army in all of Pharloom, and the Weavers were just a few strong bugs

[hard widget]

Imagine half a dozen crazy weavers with knives for hands and literal railguns rolling up to your keep

[edgy nebula]

genuinely just crush them with a rock khann is a bum

[kindred ingot]

Radiance appears in bug's dream
bug goes "oh cool"
bug dies
bug turns orange

[hard widget]

Military industrial complex from the deep docks, a horde of gullible bugs, and literal railguns

[stray grove]

There is no known mechanism WL growth magic is just one viable explanation that’s more specific than it needs to be, it could also be PK soul magic we don’t know and it doesn’t matter the answer is the same

[kindred ingot]

those were all after the Citadel was built tho

[sinful nimbus]

Close enough welcome back Powderedwater_

[stray grove]

Powdered would never acknowledge PK having any powers whatsoever

[edgy nebula]

khann built his whole tower by summoning coral is it that hard to just hurl rocks at the weavers until they drop dead

[sinful nimbus]

Weavers taught him it bro

[hard widget]

The sentinels were built under the first architect which was likely under the purview of the weavers. We don’t know when in the development of the citadel the weavers left but they farted around for a while in the citadel styling themselves as gods. Otherwise the vault keepers and architects wouldn’t recognize Hornet’s lineage

[edgy nebula]

infact shakra says karak wouldve rivaled the citadel powerwise genuinely khann just slam them while theyre weak

[lone folio]

There were only that many of them. With how powerful Khanns forces have been described to be they should be able to hold their own really well

[opal cliff]

why didnt they do anything about the water drying up

[hard widget]

It’s either the weavers with the citadel’s forces behind them or the weavers with the might of GMS behind them. I give it to the weavers

[kindred ingot]

this means one of three things
1 - Khann was too busy raging war against GMS to care about the Citadel
2 - Khann died before the Citadel
3 - Khann is stupid

[hard widget]

We know this because the weavers ended up winning

[opal cliff]

did they co-ordinate their death poses for maximum aura instead of taking any action

[edgy nebula]

team cherry decided to use karak as one huge vsguepost

[stray grove]

I mean it literally doesn’t matter when Karak fell but let’s not just start saying shit

No they didn’t go to war with GMS that’s fanon

[lone folio]

I guess TC used Khanns entire thing to just make the citadel seem strong

[kindred ingot]

this guy alone (in their prime) could solo every Weaver. I have no proof of this statement but I just feel it

[stray grove]

The point is that centralizing power is bad

[edgy nebula]

i still think karak having like no text is soo bad if the citadel did attack them where are the warlogs

[stray grove]

Karak fell like Verdania did, as a downstream effect of that

[hard widget]

This dude does NOT beat pre-bound widow OR first sinner

[edgy nebula]

environmental storytelling is good but give us something

[kindred ingot]

it's a theory

and a valid one

[stray grove]

It’s not I already explained why it doesn’t work

[hard widget]

Saying watcher at the edge beats first sinner is like saying god tamer beats pure vessel tf

[opal cliff]

i just dont really get it

[kindred ingot]

you explained why it made no sense that GMS killed Karak, my theory is that the war happened, period. I never said Khann died from that battle

[opal cliff]

it surely makes way more sense for them to have at least tried to fight the citadel

[hard widget]

What if they dammed the river and then launched the war

[edgy nebula]

wate is probably a quarter of the strength of an average weaver id say, khann is the one with the strength that can probably average fs

just poke a hole in your ceiling and drain mt fay water into karak

is khann stupid?

[kindred ingot]

ok, this guy wouldn't solo First Sinner, but like a handful of those and three yagos could beat every Weaver

[lone folio]

I doubt weavers are that strong. They just have silk powers

They are fast and stabby but they are built like sticks

[hard widget]

Don’t forget the tools!

[edgy nebula]

theyre probably not that strong physically but their movement and powers let them outsmart opponents probably

[hard widget]

Railgun makes a helluva difference

Shakra also says the weavers are wicked strong which means they must be wicked strong

Cuz shakra ain’t no bitch

[kindred ingot]

...what counts as "incredible speed"

[stray grove]

😐
But like, they weren’t defeated in battle their lands just dried up
Are you saying they went to war and lost but GMS let them go home and continue doing their shit for several generations before the Citadel incidentally happened to cause their demise

[hard widget]

And if she wants to fight one then they must be worthy opponents

[edgy nebula]

shakra’s also the one that says karak couldve rivaled the citadel

[kindred ingot]

maybe the war just never ended
GMS went to sleep before the war could have had a clear winner

[hard widget]

So both factions are incredibly strong

[stray grove]

Ok so actual fanon got it

[hard widget]

My headcanon is that they blocked the river’s source and then launched the war

[lone folio]

This is clear confirmation that watcher has a FTL feat

[opal cliff]

having a heavily militarised civilisation just stand around and let their resources be drained is kind of ridiculous writing

[hard widget]

Unless the rivers source is at the coral tower

Then things get tricky

[kindred ingot]

it's not fanon, there is evidence of that

and I showed the evidence already

[hard widget]

Cuz the dried riverbed from tower to blasted steps makes it look like that the water used to drain from the tower all the way to moss grotto

[kindred ingot]

it's a theory

[hard widget]

And the big pit is just a waterfall

But the citadel somehow stopped the water

[stray grove]

No there is no evidence of a massive war between GMS and Karak the one line of dialogue taken out of context is not evidence I’ve already explained why it doesn’t imply that

[edgy nebula]

id say the most likely answer is that khann tried fighting gms, failed, waited until gms got sealed by the weavers, then sometime later the weavers drained karak and they had a slow decline

[kindred ingot]

ok then, what does it imply

[lone folio]

They assassinated the gods of rains and thunder to stop the rainfall

[edgy nebula]

then the conductors poached all of their crabs

[hard widget]

https://tenor.com/view/beyond-fried-chicken-kfc-soy-hormones-gif-20401702

[kindred ingot]

yeah that's mainly my idea too

[hard widget]

Maybe sea of sorrow will explain where the water went seeing as its water dlc

[edgy nebula]

i dont think khann trying to brawl gms would be that important to his story moreso just a past failure of his that nothing really came from

[lone folio]

Let's be real we know for a fact that it won't 😭

[hard widget]

We know the citadel targeted strong threats to their rule with overwhelming manpower(bugpower?) with the pinstresses. so it makes sense they’d launch an assault on any threat to their domain

[edgy nebula]

was karak’s water freshwater or saltwater

[hard widget]

Contradictions to that is tha the pinstresses are a small order compared to an empire covering half of pharloom

[opal cliff]

the implication that this super militarised force went against the citadel with that dialogue makes sense no? the lack of evidence for any conflict kind of seems intentional to cement the citadel's dominance, it feeds into the idea of cultural erasure and such

[kindred ingot]

comically bad representation of what happened

[opal cliff]

i mean yea theres no evidence but that sort of just seems like the point

[kindred ingot]

ignore GMS's hair

[opal cliff]

its way less coherent to believe that they would just stand around and let themselves die

it reads like some ridiculous hyper-reality for the themes and such™️ it makes no logical sense

[edgy nebula]

im just mad that there arent any records of a fight, it makes all of the lore too vague

[lone folio]

Well they had a waterfall which implies freshwater but there are sea creatures in the area so it's actually saltwater...

[edgy nebula]

the sea creatures are bugs and their main water source is called a river so maybe freshwater?

[sinful nimbus]

For the river long...
For the lord born strong...
For life... its beat, its flow...
For order brought by claw and blade...

dang would Khann be good at rapping

[hard widget]

We know that the coral forces were defeated by forces under GMS or forces wielding silk. We know that the silken forces won, and that Khann was the last major threat to the silken forces domination of pharloom according to khann’s dialogue. How this took place, who was involved, and the timeline of events is unknown, but it ended with the creation of the blasted steps and the loss of water in the region. The loss of water could’ve occurred during this war or afterwards

[sinful nimbus]

What if each heart sung in a different way that would be tuff

[lone folio]

Caramel popcorn water: salty and sweet at the same time 🔥

[hard widget]

Mmmmmm caramel popcorn

[stray grove]

Firstly his dynasty’s collapse is much more clearly connected to Karak drying up (which happened while the Citadel were in power) than to any outright military defeat. Your claim is that he went to war with GMS but she was sealed before the war reached its resolution and he stopped attacking the Citadel after that for whatever reason only to die when they dried up the water generations later.

As I already said, while he could have resisted GMS and still fallen while the Citadel remained intact (those ideas aren’t contradictory) the “pale light” can just as easily refer to the Citadel itself, and without stronger evidence there’s no reason to assume a war on that scale even happened.

Resisting the pale light also doesn’t mean that he was directly fighting her, especially since the game treats the Citadel as an extension of her rule even when it’s acting to contain or seal her. All it means is that Karak attempted to resist her influence

And lastly it doesn’t actually matter when Karak fell as the game almost explicitly tells us, the whole point is that it fell as a downstream effect of GMS/the Citadel’s actions in the same vein as Verdania etc so having there be a massive war that’s just never mentioned anywhere is a bit tenuous

[edgy nebula]

has anyone else pointed out the cobwebs behind each melody of the deep needolin location

it’s weird

[lone folio]

Some fucking weaver is shitting all over the old rulers corpses

They really are jerks

[edgy nebula]

i wonder if it’s like weaver graffiti

[kindred ingot]

Memories seem to be partially made of Silk which is odd

[hard widget]

I think it’s just meant to imply that the memories are connect to the present via Hornet’s connection to silk

Something like that

[sinful nimbus]

You ever think about how Hornet just doesn't have a brain

[edgy nebula]

silk is soul so maybe the life force of the successors is preserved within in some way

[lone folio]

Because silk is soul and soul is memory even though essence exists

[sinful nimbus]

Like she legit has nothing in that head of hers her essence is stored in her silk

[stray grove]

She has silk in her head

[opal cliff]

that would explain a lot

[stray grove]

Silk is soul silly

Head full of wool

[opal cliff]

is there essence in silksong

[edgy nebula]

i wonder if hornet makes her silk in her spine like normal weavers do

[sinful nimbus]

all mind activity is essence

[stray grove]

Dreams are still made of essence yes its just different aesthetically

[opal cliff]

i see

[stray grove]

Hornet isn’t using the DN she’s using Weaver/Shaman magic to access dreams

[sinful nimbus]

retcon gorb make all essence stored in the soul

"space between body and soul" and soul warrior

way better

[edgy nebula]

if memories come from the soul then do charms that give you extra soul make the enemy youre attacking get dementia

[sinful nimbus]

seth

[opal cliff]

what if instead of void knight last minute fan service it was hornet having a nightmare and then boom grimm is back for some reason

[sinful nimbus]

they had the opportunity for red memory

[opal cliff]

herra takes off her mask and its grimm

[sinful nimbus]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aS7QUnsghxE

[edgy nebula]

red memory? grimm is red and thus hornet is grimm troupe

[opal cliff]

lowk what if like in red memory she recalls a bad memory and the nightmare heart is vaguely in the background

[lone folio]

😭

[opal cliff]

i think that would be cool fan service

[stray grove]

Grimm should’ve showed up at the end then said some shit like “I’ll see you soon auntie*” as more dlcbait slop
*he calls her auntie because this Grimm is the GC raised by TK in HK

[edgy nebula]

“My outlook on the world was always pretty.. Grimm..” hornet says as you wake up in a cold sweat

[sinful nimbus]

Grimm hijacks the Red Memory ritual because all the hearts are tied to their fallen civilization's nightmare essence

[opal cliff]

cinema

just straight up slimes hornet

[stray grove]

If you want an actual tuff idea that isn’t a shitpost I present: varied Grimm professions

Just because HK Grimm was a Troupe Master doesn’t mean they all have to be and the Heart clearly likes to roleplay a fair amount

[lone folio]

I remember when I saw trobbiod poetry and it said "grim" and I thought I was onto something

[opal cliff]

landlord grimm comes to evict the citizens of bone bottom

[stray grove]

Maybe when Grimm inevitably appears in the third SS DLC or whatever he’ll be the CEO of a tech firm or a mafia boss or a greedy landlord yeah

[opal cliff]

that would be cool but i dont think it would ever happen

[stray grove]

It won’t because TC are creatively bankrupt

[lone folio]

"we are making space for a new and bigger tent with a sitting lot for our steeds"

[stray grove]

It’ll just be regular Grimm

[edgy nebula]

grimm but with a worse charactee somehow

[stray grove]

Maybe NMH brings its own flavor of infection if we’re lucky

[sinful nimbus]

is alastor a radio host or somehting they should do that

[stray grove]

TUFF

[sinful nimbus]

then grimm acts like a caricature of grimm pfps

[opal cliff]

he should always be super charismatic I think

[sinful nimbus]

his name shows up in a fancy font

[opal cliff]

related to media

with each civilisation consumed the form of media becomes more modern

[lone folio]

We should get Grimm JR who's socially anxious

[sinful nimbus]

wavy horns grimm

[stray grove]

https://tenor.com/view/shakespeare-meme-shakespeare-shakespeare-you-gif-4055677556302353388

[opal cliff]

grimm troupe manifests as a group of podcast bros

[sinful nimbus]

he'd probably platform elderbug's ideas or something

probably hornet too

[stray grove]

Elderbug hates him actually

[opal cliff]

i cant tell if ur hating or affirming

[stray grove]

The latter

[opal cliff]

i love you forever

[sinful nimbus]

only cuz he doesn't spread enough anti maggot rhetoric

[stray grove]

Was DEI a thing in Hallownest

Can you imagine a maggot working a respectable job

[opal cliff]

no does that make me a terrible person

[stray grove]

Well they’d probably have to lower the standards of entry

Maggots don’t seem very bright

[blissful harbor]

what is this causal maggotism

[tardy relic]

Found another one that i totally forgot about! The Atla nest is a reference to Atalanta from greek mythology

[opal cliff]

Atlanta from Georgia

[sinful nimbus]

seeing mort and eva as real names in the game fried me

those are just regular names 😭

[stray grove]

No it’s not 🥀
There is also a more obvious connection to a mythological figure from Greek mythology if that’s what you’re doing

[rustic crypt]

did not read that right the first time

[opal cliff]

who dafuck is called mort

[sinful nimbus]

the pilgrims rest bum

[opal cliff]

i meant in real life

oh mortimer

im an idiot

[sinful nimbus]

is the king julien guy real

[opal cliff]

yea

[stray grove]

Also Morty ig

[opal cliff]

bob mortimer

[opal cliff]

it could also be a reference to avatar the last Airbender

[sinful nimbus]

Silksong is kinda like Korra if you think about it

/negative

[opal cliff]

i've never seen anything related to Avatar im larping

apart from the movies with the blue cat people

[tardy relic]

? That's literally what I said?

[stray grove]

Not that one

[chilly gyro]

Petition for the Sea of Sorrow update to have a fishing quest that’s repeatable like the Tipp and Phill deliveries so you can fish as much as you want

[sinful nimbus]

real life spider warning ||https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wl120RuhQYg||

[gentle aspen]

Atalanta bares no real similarity to Atla

[sinful nimbus]

this how she fishes

[gentle aspen]

in both name and function

It’d make more sense to be atlas or something

[chilly gyro]

So we could bind a silk skill that allows us to turn Hornets needle into a fishing rod.

[opal cliff]

do the weavernesrs have any actual naming convention

[spark valve]

they're probably named after weavers given the atla effigy

[opal cliff]

ah yea

but i mean in relation to the real world

or is it just made up

[rustic crypt]

hornet needs a six-month fishing trip twice a year

[opal cliff]

they kind of look like figures all from different mythologies if u really squint

[halcyon merlin]

it's not even in the thumbnail

no reason to even spoiler

[tardy relic]

I mean atalanta was a chick who was known for running real fast and that's where you do a bunch of running real fast, and weavers are all female. So I'm gonna agree to disagree that it's a reference to a guy whose myths aren't about running

[sinful nimbus]

true

Cindril is the running one

[tardy relic]

Ahhh feck

My bad

[tardy relic]

Thank u for pointing that out without being a jerk btw. Legit just got turned around in my head

[median jungle]

What's the betting that tc is going to do all the things they were gonna do for the abyss update in SoS

I mean it would definitely have fit an abyss lake update to be called "sea of sorrow"

[chilly gyro]

I mean it would make sense for something deep enough to reach the abyss naturally like the sharp shadow area in Deepnest. Maybe there could be a little sub area that’s like a really deep trench with a bunch of void pooling at the bottom like a brine pool. All kinds of things would be hidden there

[craggy smelt]

they kind've did a lot of the Abyss DLC stuff in Act 3
descending into the Void, fighting a boss in the Abyss, etc.

the spaces in the Void weren't quite as twisted as I hoped, but still

[dapper willow]

I think the abyss nailed the creepy atmosphere
With those wiggly things
They are very much creepy and crawly

[void patrol]

Those are
BLBBLBLBLBBLBLBB

[sturdy arrow]

Do I almost feel fear?

[exotic pendant]

STOP IT WITH THE GLOOMSA-

and also I saw that

[sturdy arrow]

This is what I want to tell Team Cherry.

[cold pollen]

what what pinged me

[sturdy arrow]

I misread your message, sorry.

[cold pollen]

it's fine

[exotic pendant]

this counts as memeing

[cold pollen]

it does??

oh j see

[exotic pendant]

yes

because of the end

[cold pollen]

got it, though genuinely what do we feel about that

[exotic pendant]

I think it doesn't matter, even if it does it's like pure speculation

[cold pollen]

it could matter ig

[exotic pendant]

grandma silk is basically eldrich horror type shi so who knows why the hell she like that

it could just be because she is pale being

not because of anything else

"devotion or destruction" as hornet says

[cold pollen]

I don't know like adding an extra layer to their revolution to a more personal level showing how horrible her entitlement over her daughters is

[exotic pendant]

well, on a personal level we still have lace

she understood her mistake at the end at least, on a personal level

[cold pollen]

kinda

not really

I don't think gms changed

I think she just let lace go to save uer

she may love herself but she loves her daughters too kinda

[exotic pendant]

gms did change, she hated the weavers because they weren't devoted

lace betrayed her like the weavers, but she chose to protect her

[cold pollen]

OH right there is that

she'd 100% not drop that protective mother shit tho

[fading shard]

I wouldn't really say that it counts

doesn't really feel like it anyhow

especially with how they described it

[near stag]

what was bilewater like before the citade,

[void patrol]

Buetifull

(i cant english)

[void patrol]

Think SoS area but bit more green

[near stag]

thanks

[magic rose]

English isnt englishing

[foggy stratus]

Probably similar water quality to Pale Lake along with more peaceful wildlife.

[near stag]

they should make a dlc called pharlooms past and it would be like the dream areas only exploring them fully so bilewaters like berfore citadel a fully explorable coral gorge and allat

city of steel?

[foggy stratus]

City of steel?
of Steel?!
Creature of Steel!

[tardy rock]

City of dih

[foggy stratus]

Shut the fuck up.

[tardy rock]

Ty twin

Imagine being mad

In the big 2023

[paper mantle]

What need did Vespa have to train Hornet?

Who invited her?

[warm zodiac]

Most likely hornet had undergone training with vespa upon an order from pale king

[paper mantle]

That's sound logic

[spare lynx]

Creature of steel is actually not made of steel

You have been lied to by mentos prime

[paper mantle]

What is the lore of Pale Lake?

[paper mantle]

About that...
All wyrms are Pale Beings?

[stray fog]

No

The pale king is called "the white wyrm"

So hes THE pale wyrm

[paper mantle]

Oh, right

[stray fog]

No idea what it has to do with pale things

[dark widget]

Do you think canon explanation for double damage by most things in silksong is that everything in pharloom is stronger or is Hornet more fragile than the knight?

[foggy stratus]

Hornet is more fragile.

[dark widget]

im personally going the "pharloom ecosystem gives everything extra strength to survive" route

[dark widget]

is it canon or theory?

[foggy stratus]

Canon more or less.

[paper mantle]

Idk

[dark widget]

If it's confirmed by creators, good to know

[paper mantle]

There are some enemies that strike first one blow and then another in succession.

[stray fog]

Yes

[fresh badger]

I DISAGREE

Pale lake is completely different, I'd say it would be more similar to sinners road smh smh smhing my head

Would probably just have more animals than the roaches, the roaches and squits were just the only ones tough enough to survive the pollution

[foggy stratus]

I believe you see similar water in both that one spot in Weavenest Murglin and in the spot where you find Shakra's master.

[fresh badger]

Shakras master yeah, I dont think the same with murglin

But geology wise pale lake just cant be compared to bilewater

Which means different plants and critters

Ngl actually I feel bilewater would retain the swamp vibes

It would just be not horrible eutrophic water, meaning plants might be slightly less overgrown?

I wonder if it was once similar to Wisp Thicket, idk if the funky stilkin architecture looks bamboo-y

[sick tinsel]

pale creatures seem to be white

with superpowers

what a coincidence

[fading shard]

he's seemingly the only pale wyrm

given everybody gives him that description in one way or another

[paper mantle]

Correct

[twin schooner]

The vagueness of first sinners lore frustrates me yes but since I figured it out

What frustrates me more is the sands of karak, we get fuckall info about what happened to them exactly

"pale light" khans talking about gms correct?

weavers dont emit pale light tho? Theyre just ordinary bugs with extraordinary strength

Im thinking it was gms and his region/tribe withered away due to natural circumstances which i assumed firstly before hearing the pale light line, its 100% gms work

Hold on wdym green prince? Elaborate

Khan didn't say anything about green prince

Mount fay is above sands of karak so this is likely

and they built shit over there

yeah I understand but that was hornet speaking, greenie likely didn’t know about gms, and was shit talking the citadel

He even said “golden leech” which indicates he has no idea whose up there

After looking at mount fay this might not be far fetched, the karaks mustve been a nuisance

Also gms is a neglectful outright possessive parent

[sick tinsel]

radiance is waay better than gms

she may have infected hallownest but atleast didnt lie to moths

[twin schooner]

Radiance is just the perfect example of a d1 crashout and blind rage

[foggy stratus]

Better creator/parent? Yeah. Better person? No absolutely not.

[sick tinsel]

maybe

[twin schooner]

Unreasonable crashout

[sick tinsel]

yes

[deft plover]

I think gms had a much better reaction to her kids dissobeying her

Shr gave us silk to save ourselves and lace

[sick tinsel]

what a caring mother ❤️

her theme is better than radiance so id agree

[deft plover]

And to be fr she was sealed away before that,she was treated much worse than the radiance

[sick tinsel]

probably

unn has the best reaction to that

[deft plover]

Ikr

Unn is the goat

[twin schooner]

And leaving phantom to rot showed that she didn’t have the heart to actually kill her

[deft plover]

Now i didn't say she was a good mother

She was a better mother

Also tbh she had worse kids to deal with

Look at how devious the weavers were

[twin schooner]

“she thought she was gonna be sleeping for one day!!! SHE MAD!!” ass weavers

[twin schooner]

yea we know that

Lace is a totally mentally stable person yk

[still relic]

Guys

Wasn't the citedal made to contain gms

Citadel

I was just wondering if I remembered the lore wrong

Also no

I just had that in my gallery

I thought it was just an image of her ngl

I didn't know it was a SHAWpost

[deft plover]

Tbh i believe gms could be more reasoned with than the radiance

[still relic]

This is what it showed in the discord gallery

[twin schooner]

All gms wanted to do what like have a family

Right?

[deft plover]

Something like that yeah

[twin schooner]

her haunting shenanigans is just a desperate attempt to fill that hole left by the wavers

[deft plover]

I would be mad too yk

[still relic]

Is lace evil or nice

[twin schooner]

But id also take a step back and think why they did it

[deft plover]

The people I ELEVATED,i cherished turned against me and fuking became the wotst peopme ever

I would kill the shi out of em

[deft plover]

What did gms do wrong tho

[frosty gate]

Lace is Nicevil

[twin schooner]

They didn’t do it for no reason, the weavers were never allowed to leave her no matter what

[still relic]

She saved us but didn't she cause the void

[twin schooner]

omg

[deft plover]

I mean

[frosty gate]

Yes and no

She kinda didn't care to save us much

She also didnt cause the void

[twin schooner]

Did you even play the game

[deft plover]

That is a reason to retaliate,not to do what they did

[deft plover]

🫩

[still relic]

It was technically the snail shamans right

Orr at least caregiver

[frosty gate]

Yep. Lace fucked it up by saving us

[deft plover]

Ok i didn't mean to send that to the chat i meant it for the bot that said watch your language

[still relic]

How though

[frosty gate]

Nah it was all of them, they were in on it

[twin schooner]

Lace shouldve just cut the arm and left gms but no I have to cause the haunting!!!!!

[still relic]

Isn't that why maiden and the hermit gave it instantly

[twin schooner]

I HAVE TO KILL GMS BECAUSE IM SO IMMATURE WAAAA IM THE ONLY ONE WHO SUFFERS

like garmond didn’t lose his entire fucking village

Im pissed garmond died ok

[frosty gate]

Well, thing is that the Snails laid the trap to summon the Void. IF Lace didn't intervene, GMS goes down with Hornet and both dies

[still relic]

Wouldn't that prevent void

[frosty gate]

But since Lace intervened, GMS didn't want to let Lace die

Because they both got dragged down together

[still relic]

Also lace is pretty strong considering she cut off gms arm but hornet needs to hit her like 100 times

Well I guess she was weaker

From hornet

And probably the void

[frosty gate]

Meh, Cutscene vs Gameplay, doesn't have to be particularly logical

[still relic]

Fair enough

How did lace like. Survive though?

[frosty gate]

GMS was keeping her alive

Sorta

[still relic]

K

I got spoiled on lost lace fight so how did she get hung up like that? Was it lace

[frosty gate]

Wait wdym

[still relic]

This

[deft plover]

Void

If i talk more it's spoiling everything

U asked tho

[still relic]

Ok

I'm at the heart quests

So pretty much everything after is blind to me

Do I need all 3?

[twin dragon]

gms was beat up for quite a bit

[still relic]

Yeah I realized that after I said it

Void+hornet made her alot weaker

Also I HATE RAGING CONCHFLY I HATE SETH THE SHRINE GUARDIAN

Heart quest sucks prove me wrong

[craggy smelt]

👀 you do need 3 hearts, yes 👀

[frosty gate]

Don't make me say it man

Seth is actually not as hard as the other 2

Fuck ||Coral Tower|| tho, fuck it so hard i hate ||Coral Tower and its 100 fucking gauntlets so much||

[midnight zinc]

There’s like four 💀

[frosty gate]

They were so unfun tho

[midnight zinc]

Eh

[frosty gate]

I hate it even more because a friend played the game after me and he ACED IT

FIRST TRY

[midnight zinc]

Theyre not as fun as boss fights but just use the wanderer’s crest and you can tear through most enemy waves pretty quickly

[frosty gate]

Yeah, i just had issue with the flying ones