sk-lore

[random harbor]

Hunter's Journal: White Defender

Description:
Figure from a fondly remembered past. Reacts gallantly to defeat by becoming stronger.

Hunter's notes:
"The Champion's Call, the Knotted Grove, the Battle of the Blackwyrm... I remember it all. I will carry those glories with me always... until we meet again."
- Ogrim of the Five Knights

Dream Nail:
Hegemol... I miss your humour...
Ze'mer... I miss your stories...
Dryya... I miss your wisdom...
Isma... I miss.. I miss you...
Your Majesty... Have faith in me!

@lexmolten used /journal name: White Defender

[fading shard]

if we aren't talking about the kingdom itself and rather the landmark

we got the hive with Vespa and the bees

and in all honesty Vespa is likely top 10 strongest mortal characters we know of

we got the mantises and the mantis lords

the the moths and their whole deal with dream magic

and the hunter states that the sentries are stonger then most ordinary bugs

and quirrel mentions their great skills in training

and he knows what he's talking about

[echo vapor]

Sentry vs Grand Reed, the big guys of 2 kingdom

[foggy stratus]

Sentry.

[echo vapor]

its actually interesting to powerscale these 2 lands tbh

[echo vapor]

yeah

[fading shard]

A grand reed and a great sentry

would be a close match up

Hallownests sentry force are showcased to be far more wide spread and vast then pharlooms citadel

[echo vapor]

Grand Reed definitely has more versatility, it can fly and use Thread Storm

[fading shard]

the grand reed has the upper hand yes

but it'd be close none the less

[fading shard]

Honestly I could keep going

but Pharloom genuinely is FAR weaker then hallownest

[echo vapor]

one strike from the Sentry could do serious damage

[foggy stratus]

snap

[fading shard]

as the journal entry states the great sentries deal devastating blows

with impressive speed

and spirit tree don't be defending pharloom here as you know damn well the citadel either way loses

because of the pale kings insanity

[echo vapor]

how about only their mortal combatants (the five great knights kinda clears so lets leave them out)

[fading shard]

close match up

though again we got hte in game statement

that hallownest dealt in great battles and glories

where as pharloom doesn't have such luxuries

additionally the reeds are stated to have been trained in oppressing the bugs

[echo vapor]

Pharloom has tools, flying combatants and meatwalls (Choir Pilgrims and Slab bugs)

[fading shard]

so does hallownest?

[echo vapor]

i still think Pharloom would have a little bit of edge here

[fading shard]

also slab bugs are wardens

[echo vapor]

what do they have again

[foggy stratus]

The flying Sentrys. Also the various charms that can just be bought or found.

[echo vapor]

they could use them as walls, they do whatever The Citadel wants anyways

[fading shard]

Choristor
Reed
Grand Reed
Choir Clapper
Clawmaiden
memoria

Husk Sentry
Heavy Sentry
Winged Sentry
Lance Sentry
Husk Guard
Great Husk Sentry
Kingsmould

[fading shard]

one of the sentries are literally said to be powerful enough to wield a great nail

referring to the heavy sentry

something the great husk sentry does too

but the heavy sentry is a more common soldier of hallownest

so that's a statement in itself

[echo vapor]

ooh

judging by their arsenal Hallownest'd probably win now 😭

[fading shard]

my guy 99% of the automatons are stated to be made for the core preservation

[echo vapor]

its been a while since i've played Hk

[fading shard]

the only ones who actually were used for combat

were the automaton guard

who only guards the core to keep it functional from intruders

the sentinels

and the choruses

that's it

and this is about the regular bug discussion

not elites

if we did then we'd have to include the nail masters

and sly in as well

and again hallownest has an entire pale court

[echo vapor]

a matchup between them and The Order of the Pinstress would be cool too

[fading shard]

the pinstresses got betrayed by the citadel remember

[echo vapor]

i know but this is hypothetical

assuming they never got betrayed

[fading shard]

a pinstress was capable of beating one

[echo vapor]

i should have said that earlier

[fading shard]

I'd say the nail masters

or the five great knights could deal with them

[fading shard]

feel as though that's a bit of an unfair inclusion

[echo vapor]

Choruses are made to hunt down the Pinstress anyways. Unless they modify it against the Hallownest guards it'd be useless

[fading shard]

the sentries aren't even exactly guards

they are shown to be everywhere in hallownest territory

including the ancient basin, ismas grove, some corpses in fungal wastes, resting grounds

there were four of them

you're implying as if they were mass produced which isn't the case

.....

you do realize

we are shown 4 choruses

and we explicitely

get shown

that one of the housing for a chorus is empty

showcasing to us that the one missing is the forth chorus

use the information we possess spirit tree

that being that there's four of them

just like how there were twelve architects

you say that because you know hallownest wins

[echo vapor]

there is one destroyed/unfinished in the Chapel of The Architect as well

[fading shard]

it's a pretty clear sweep

especially when we include the pale king

as no matter what you could say spirit tree

you know very well that once you include the pale king

the citadel get's their asses beat

especially since gms is an enemy of the citadels

[echo vapor]

Citadel has no way of dealing with The Five Great Knights and the other Elite Guards at the same time. So true

[fading shard]

so you can't even include another higher being in the mix

[echo vapor]

lets do the Weavers then

[fading shard]

the weavers are mortals

[echo vapor]

First Sinner and lets assume the others are slightly weaker than her

[fading shard]

we literally see four of them dead in weaversden

[echo vapor]

they do have special abilities though. Thats the point

[fading shard]

.......

"Even long departed, We feel the afterglow of the God-power that sat this throne... It lays heavy upon this kingdom.
That lingering power alone was beacon enough to draw Us to Hallownest."

"bright and radiant in visage, so much so it hurt to look at him."

"Jinn knows that mark, but cannot bow."

"What a curious specimen. Hah! Though even its pure aura is no match for the light of our dear King."

KINGsoul

the almost unlimited amount of soul the pale king dumped into his reaction of soul totems

without any issue

and wek now these are canon as the ancient civilization did the same thing

[echo vapor]

bear the thought that he could still be very powerful. He turned into a smaller bug to rule Hallownest but maybe he changed his fighting style to like the Knight. Regardless. he is still a Higher Being

[fading shard]

the pure vessel being trained into using power soul

"Have you visited the remnants of his palace? It's down below this city, in the bedrock of the kingdom.
Must've been an impressive sight in its time. Now there's nothing left.
It's a strange thing though. There are no signs of conflict around the area. It's as though the whole place just vanished."

he literally transported his entire palace into the dream realm

alongside his body

and made a entire subspace in the dream realm made of his own essence

he created a massive bloody seal that had withstood the test of time and was only capable of being opened by having HIS mark

the magical seals he put upon the dreamers that could only be penetrated by using a one of a kind artifact that is the dream nail

him having the capability of giving a vessel world sense

something that we've only seen zi and a few other characters possess

which is really powerful

him possessing foresight

I'm not done yet

do you want me to keep going

pure vessel

We literally have pure vessel

Whos literally said to have been trained and raised to it's grown form

using various SOUL spells

using FOCUS

and knowing that the pale king was the one raising the pure vessel

Is that not enough

His light get's compared to the first lights

how is that not good enough

"They were content to bask in that light and honoured it... for a time.
But another light appeared in our world... A wyrm that took the form of a king."

his light literally had the moths abondon the radiane

The moths literally abondoned the god of light

for the Pale king because of how majestic his light powers were

Idk what more you need

but I just gave a ton of pieces of evidence of him being a beast

and it seems you're just coping

@foggy stratus help me out here man

How am i supposed to give you combat related things when we don't see him live fighting

[foggy stratus]

Pure Vessel is explicitly more powerful than any Shaman, Weaver or Soul Sanctumite we've seen. The only person who could possibly train it would have been the Pale King.

[fading shard]

I can't just give you a clip of the pale king using a massive fork

I just gave over 10 power statements way above 99% of the characters shown in game

[foggy stratus]

My guy it was actively being melted from the inside out by a pissed off angry moth goddess.

[echo vapor]

it was practically fighting 2 battles

[fading shard]

anyhow egg I think I made my point as to why Pharlooms citadel get's sweeped by hallownests army

[foggy stratus]

Its shell was cracked meaning it wouldn't be able to store any Soul, Radiance might not know how to puppet THK to make it use Soul magic, THK was resisting the Radiance's attempts to use Soul magic. Any of those also work. Also how does it losing its spell casting arm make it a bad spell user?

[fading shard]

that you could agree

[echo vapor]

i could see it clearly now. I just didnt remeber exactly how powerful Hallownest was aside from its Higher Beings and 5 Great Knights.

[fading shard]

"I'd be cautious around them my short friend. Their training will not have been forgotten. This city presents some formidable foes."

I think this statement shows that the sentries are pretty well equipped and well trained

to be threats

[echo vapor]

ok

[fading shard]

Actually I keep forgetting about the seals placed on the hollow knight

not the black egg temple

but the chains housing the poor guy

[fading shard]

._. so uh egg

may I ask you smth

why are you an egg

[echo vapor]

i just uhh thought of it when i created my account

it just stuck with me until now

[fading shard]

ahh I see

[twin dragon]

yeah but when you're against a literal army that can use soul

they don't stand a chance

infantry strictly

because the 5 knights would mog

nope

Imo first sinner has actual tragedy going on

[fading shard]

Even when some of them are strong enough to wield a great nail

[twin dragon]

The heavier ones sure, but a big nail isnt that effective

[fading shard]

and the rest are said to be rather nimble

[twin dragon]

if yk how swords work

[fading shard]

this isn't real life nubbie

a lot of people watch sell swords arts

[twin dragon]

Ye but swords here dont inherit any magic property soo

[fading shard]

and know that big anime swords aren't actually useful

[fading shard]

but is fiction nubbie

and great nail sage sly literally uses one

[twin dragon]

Cuz sly is the goat

you don't have 2 slys around

I'd say the most tragic character is any of the silkborns

[magic rose]

Guys

Lace is french fries

[somber lantern]

French fries

I think maybe phantom cuz she was abandoned and literally wanted someone to kill her

[sinful nimbus]

THK mogs any suffering any character in the universe went through ever

[woven pier]

even subaru from re zero?

[sinful nimbus]

https://tenor.com/view/random-kid-ishowspeed-ishowspeed-random-ishowspeed-kid-ishowspeed-random-kid-gif-10321809644837118669

[woven pier]

0 ball knowledge

[stray grove]

Katana Zero Chronos withdrawal

[frosty gate]

Peak mentioned

[frosty gate]

Double peak mention

[sick tinsel]

the five humans AM tortured :

[frosty gate]

https://tenor.com/view/its-alright-gif-26963805

[sick tinsel]

yes

[frosty gate]

Meanwhile a random fucking guy lobotomized in order to make him into a fucking microwave in WH40K universe because suffering is casual there

40K so edgy it starts being funny

[sick tinsel]

atleast THK has aura

eternal servitude

[knotty prism]

are they crustaceans??

[knotty prism]

i like to think so

[unique tangle]

No one can convince me Yago is not a shrimp or lobster

[twin dragon]

laurence:

[knotty prism]

EXACTLY

[twin dragon]

they're bugs larping as crustaceans

[sinful nimbus]

they're saving lobsters for the REAL fight

[twin dragon]

in SoS

[knotty prism]

bug is a very misleading term

it can refer to any creepy crawlie

[twin dragon]

well they're... bugs...

insects

or arachnids in some cases

[knotty prism]

not necessarily insects

bug is a very general term

[twin dragon]

ye but in the hkverse its usually insects

[sick tinsel]

mmmmm japanese food

[knotty prism]

i dont think so

[unique tangle]

Yea many people call lobsters and crabs and such sea bugs

Crustaceans and insects are also closely related

[knotty prism]

you cannot tell me this is NOT meant to be a lobster or a shrimp bro

[knotty prism]

crustaceans to insects are what monkeys are to humans

[unique tangle]

We just had a game centred around spiders

[fading shard]

I meant it's possible I guess

[lone folio]

It looks like a dragonfly

The tail and 4 wings match up

A lobster is 8 legged and has a flat tail with no wings

I reckon these guys could also be dragonflies

They look similar to this guy who is a dragonfly

[edgy nebula]

i smell karak discussion

coral tower enemies are very likely all bugs, seen by corrcrust karakas (elder karakas) and other coral tower enemies having wings

kai are also bugs, having bug limbs and hornet describing the steelspine kai as having shellsacks

[unique tangle]

Yknow they can be fictional winged crustaceans right

Why are arachnids and mollusks acceptable, but the idea of crustaceans off the table

Crustaceans are closer to being bugs than mollusks are

Hecc they’re closer to being true bugs (insects) than arachnids even

[edgy nebula]

cause water bugs are badass

[sinful nimbus]

baldurs are isopods 🤔

[unique tangle]

They just hate to see a crustacean succeed…

😔

[sinful nimbus]

I really think the setting allows for anything creepy/strange

Maybe not mammals/reptiles unless you make them magic and more segmented

[unique tangle]

Yea, and we’re going by the general loose term of “bug” which crabs are more bug than spiders or slugs

[edgy nebula]

i mean technically tc has already been shown to be adverse to adding crustaceans

with how they cut lobster lancer

[sinful nimbus]

They just didn't want to animate a lobster

[stray grove]

Barnacles

[sinful nimbus]

Ari is finished if he needs to draw something without stick limbs

Except for the Bronte music video

[unique tangle]

I mean it’s not fully cut, that thing the tamer is riding still seems to be a crustacean with its filter mouth

Insects don’t have that type of mouth structure

Also that was HK where in SS TC definitely seem to be more open to less strict bug designs

[edgy nebula]

if theres one thing you can fault hk games for it's them not having biologically accurate characters tbf

[lone folio]

Why complicate something when the answer is simple?

[unique tangle]

Cause it’s pretty simple to say that they’re crustaceans?

[lone folio]

Like if thats your headcannon go for it

[unique tangle]

I don’t see how this is all that complex

Maybe Khann being a lobster destroys the HK canon

[lone folio]

True

the mantises...

[edgy nebula]

if khann was really a lobster and was as strong as the shamans said he is he'd be much bigger

[lone folio]

Its even simpler to say that they arent because their design shares much more in common with bugs then crusteceans. If they were crusteaceans i reckon they would share more traits with them then just being red

[sinful nimbus]

rule of cool

[unique tangle]

The bugs of HK don’t even share that many traits with actual bugs to begin with lol

[sinful nimbus]

crustaceans in the water area is cooler

maybe it'd be cooler if they saved them for sea of sorrow though

[lone folio]

True

[unique tangle]

We just hating on crustaceans

For NO reason

They have all qualifications

[lone folio]

I would of liked their designs to look like crustaceans but apparently team cherry likes dragonflies more 🤷‍♂️

[unique tangle]

But we just have bug elitists today ig

[lone folio]

Like?

[sinful nimbus]

Giant lobster grabs your submarine you get knocked out and when you wake up you're in the abyss but underwater

[unique tangle]

All the entomologists out in chat today

[sinful nimbus]

Then Hornet picks up the diving bell spider ability

[lone folio]

Peak

[unique tangle]

Like being a bug

[edgy nebula]

agreed

my messages arent going through this is so washed

[lone folio]

This is so incredibly vague that it might as well be ragebait 😭

[edgy nebula]

do we think khann jumped from the top of the coral steps all the way into moss grotto for an epic cannonball

[unique tangle]

That’s what I’m saying

[lone folio]

He would of broken his neck

[unique tangle]

Everyone here is like they can’t be crustaceans they’re “bugs”

And like that’s literally a moot argument crustaceans are as bug as you get by the vague definition

That’s literally my point lol

[lone folio]

In HK bugs could be crustaceans as well but I just don't see how the flying Karaka enemies could be crustaceans

[unique tangle]

They’re fictional bugs brooo

There’s bugs out here that explode into fire

We can accept crustaceans with wings

[lone folio]

Yeah let's accept flying 6 legged slit tailed crustaceans 🔥

[unique tangle]

Yeah

[foggy stratus]

No.

That's too far.

[unique tangle]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/662500313130991617/1447383265110655076/IMG_1609.gif

[sinful nimbus]

HK has dragons

[edgy nebula]

if khann gets stuck in purgatory endlessly wandering the physical realm would he be a ghost crab

[lone folio]

Dragonflies*

[sinful nimbus]

No dragons

[lone folio]

Since when are reptiles in HK

[sinful nimbus]

What if there were fire breathing dragonflies and they existed in Last Judge's mace though that would be tuff

[sinful nimbus]

Wyrms

[edgy nebula]

macebug but bettee

[unique tangle]

My b the giant flying crocodile bug things that spew pollution are acceptable but crustaceans with wings would literally destroy the whole believability of the HK universe

[foggy stratus]

Those are mutated creatures adapted to living in literal fucking hell.

[spark valve]

Tc is too lame to do dragonflies

[lone folio]

You are dragging this argument so much

[unique tangle]

I’m making a joke

It’s not that serious ok the argument is over lol

Relax

[sinful nimbus]

Team Cherry when they have to take inspiration from real life bugs in their bug setting

[stray grove]

Flying Wyrm

[gentle aspen]

I mean

I’ve seen spiders do some crazy shit

[spark valve]

Isn’t a dragonfly in design in any capacity even if he was a cool guy

[foggy stratus]

I once saw one parry my shoe.

[lone folio]

Where does one find soul manipulating spiders with ping pong balls for heads

[edgy nebula]

drifters cloak not being a silk parachute like how spiders do irl pmo

[edgy nebula]

new jersey

[gentle aspen]

vermont

[foggy stratus]

Or Australia.

[stray grove]

Not what I was referring to

[sinful nimbus]

imagine

[stray grove]

I was simply suggesting dragonflies in universe be like an airborne relative of wyrms

[sinful nimbus]

Magic weaver diving bell

[unique tangle]

Isn’t that a Pokemon

[lone folio]

See this is a peak idea

[lone folio]

Yeah

[spark valve]

You and your wyverns

[edgy nebula]

araquanid iirc

https://tenor.com/view/araquanid-pokemon-sun-and-moon-love-gif-13329624739414450196

[unique tangle]

We will get araquanid in SoS

Have a water weaver

[sinful nimbus]

our spider game mogged by pokemon its so over

[twin dragon]

we WILL get sirens in SoS

[stray grove]

When the world is full of wyverns…

[sinful nimbus]

mogged by mhrise 🥀

[twin dragon]

i dreamt about a siren boss

[twin dragon]

Pokemon has a single good spider pokemon

[spark valve]

Admittedly I forgot what my pfp is I can’t judge

[stray grove]

Somnacanth?

[edgy nebula]

sea of sorrow siren bug that releases spores or bug pheromones to lure people in

[sinful nimbus]

I love somnacanth

[stray grove]

mfw game about song and the siren doesn’t sing

tbf this is better because the song stuff is all aesthetics anyway so TC may as well have the siren do something completely unrelated

[twin dragon]

I looked it up and ew

[unique tangle]

Wym the song is sooooo important

[twin dragon]

get that shit out of my sight

[unique tangle]

It uh

The song does uh

[edgy nebula]

game is called silksong and only one of hornets abilities is about music

[unique tangle]

You can play a silly tune

[stray grove]

Silk

[twin dragon]

no it better SING

[sinful nimbus]

🥺

[stray grove]

I don’t actually like Somna either

I like killing it

Auroracanth has good DBs

[twin dragon]

ugly ahh

[unique tangle]

Nono you see, that song opens an elevator door

[sinful nimbus]

Hunter vs Rakna Kadaki more spiderlike than Hornet vs Widow 💔

[twin dragon]

mhrise found dead after getting mogged by bb designs

[edgy nebula]

id argue weavers dont have enough tying them to song

[spark valve]

The armor rocks

[stray grove]

Actually crazy how kamura hunters have better silk skills than hornet

[twin dragon]

weavers have the citadel to their name

thats it

[unique tangle]

Weavers have parental abuse

[edgy nebula]

theres like, the song used to keep gms asleep, the song used while weavers were enslaved, then what

tuning forks??

[twin dragon]

THis game is literally the nitpicker's fever dream

[stray grove]

Hornet’s silk skills when half of them are just generic soul spells and the other half are her normal attacks from HK

[spark valve]

Warding bell

[stray grove]

Hymn of protection 🤓

[edgy nebula]

citadel invention shhh

[unique tangle]

They should’ve just named the game Hollow Knight: Silk

[sinful nimbus]

hollow knight: soul

[stray grove]

Silk is soul!

[unique tangle]

Soul with extra steps

[spark valve]

Tbf ss is her regaining abilities so whatever

[twin dragon]

Hold on

[edgy nebula]

hollow knight: 2

[stray grove]

Absolutely no unique aesthetics

[twin dragon]

Is this return of the king rebranded

[stray grove]

ok bro

[edgy nebula]

i wish you could still pogo on sting shards like in the trailer

[sinful nimbus]

why is everyone ripping off my star aesthetic bro

[twin dragon]

Yeah makes sense

[twin dragon]

so much talking about originality

[unique tangle]

No you see, PV’s soul blast is completely different from FS’s silk blast

Cause one uses soul and the other uses silk

[twin dragon]

Yeah PV's soul blast is a fraud

[sinful nimbus]

soul infection

[edgy nebula]

does it know?

[stray grove]

Silk skills:
Throw needle
Gossamer Storm (actually good but already existed in HK)
PV soul nails
PV rune blast
Generic parry
Sharp shadow

Really makes you feel like a spider

[sinful nimbus]

Now lets see the MIO abilities

[edgy nebula]

gossamer storm is such a better name than silk storm

[twin dragon]

uhhh

clawline???

and uhh

drifter's cloak

[hard widget]

Maybe it’s her dad’s side leaking through and influencing the form the spells take

[twin dragon]

and uhhh

a cool spider ability ig

chat MIO ripped off skong its over

we gotta move to a more original mv

like blasphemous 2

which has

a dash

a double jump

[edgy nebula]

hornet is sub 5 metroidvania protagonists

[twin dragon]

and wall climb

[stray grove]

There are no original MVs it’s a slop genre they’re all exactly the same

[hard widget]

Also hot take PV rune blast is based off the FS version since silk is used for runes

[stray grove]

But Mio is better than Silkslop

[twin dragon]

Nah not rlly

[stray grove]

I mean no they both use runes but were developed independently

[hard widget]

No evidence no source just headcanon

[stray grove]

Not all runes use silk

[spark valve]

Pop

[stray grove]

Basically every spellcasting tradition has runes

[twin dragon]

Its ubislop

[unique tangle]

It’s due to inflation, pale king ran out of money to invent a new spell

[edgy nebula]

when do we get void and lifeblood runes

infection runes

[unique tangle]

So he just borrowed and rebranded an old one

[twin dragon]

i hope never

[stray grove]

There are essence runes lol

[hard widget]

I think we do see a void seal somewhere idr where

[spark valve]

Lifeblood isn’t one of the types and shade cloak bug

[hard widget]

Over the shade cloak corpse?

[stray grove]

Void runes are also a thing

[edgy nebula]

oh the shade cloak bug has a void seal?

[twin dragon]

Does this leave you vulnerable for 5 years

[stray grove]

Void also has the unique ability to merge with other forms of magic

[twin dragon]

it looks like it

[fading shard]

yk I wonder what sea of sorrow will expand on

other then life blood

[twin dragon]

unless mh combat is slow asf

[stray grove]

https://tenor.com/view/jjk-memes-jjk-ryu-jjk-larp-larping-gif-9136261405032725470

[twin dragon]

Like genuinely

[sinful nimbus]

I mean its a special

[twin dragon]

holy slop

[hard widget]

I think this is actually an ability of the pale king, void just eats everything it touches and turns it into nothing

[fading shard]

the pure vessel uses soul

[sinful nimbus]

Silksong fans when the attacks aren't instantaneous

[fading shard]

so no

[stray grove]

No it literally does the exact same thing in Silksong act 3

[edgy nebula]

i headcanon that the shaman corpses let tk increase the purity of the soul they gain and so they can coat their spells with void because the soul is pure enough to not be instantly destroyed

[hard widget]

This explains the knight drawing strength from others and Horner absorbing crests

[twin dragon]

yeah

SLow

ew

[sinful nimbus]

TRUE
TK absorbing abilities was malleable nature

[stray grove]

Focus and malleable nature are PK abilities yes but Void merging with other magics is also established to be a thing

[twin dragon]

When

[gentle aspen]

I mean
void can merge with preexisting things and strengthen them

[sinful nimbus]

Void spells and blackthreading

[stray grove]

It merges with the Shaman spells in HK THK uses it to replicate soul spells and in SS act 3 Void merges with GMS’ silk magic to form the black threads

[twin dragon]

The void does merge with the haunting to roid bugs

[stray grove]

Larp

[edgy nebula]

explain void attacks depleting hornets silk then

[gentle aspen]

Void spells still need soul and are mixed
The black threads are another example

[hard widget]

It’s not so much merging as it is violently taking control and puppeting it while eating away at its soul

[twin dragon]

not in TK's case because tk got plot armour

[gentle aspen]

Lmao

[edgy nebula]

im good

[hard widget]

Void mindlessly attacks life and consumes it into nothingness

Soul is the embodiment of life

[stray grove]

Joker ban this guy they’re getting in the way of my gif spam

[gentle aspen]

that still isn’t the case in either of the examples just outlined

[sinful nimbus]

hi guys this is my fantasy world and at the bottom of my world is primordial evils that are opposed to all life and will eventually consume all 🥺

[edgy nebula]

i wish silksong never added snail shamans despite them being such good characters in sk

snail shaman discourse is diabolical

[twin dragon]

TRUE

[hard widget]

Void spells are a mix of void and soul, a product of the unique creation of the vessels and TK. Void just piggybacks off the black thread as it drags pharloom into the abyss

[twin dragon]

||even mio has that with the hand repurposing your ass to be a screwdriver|| MIO spoilers

[stray grove]

Woah is the primordial eldritch evil also a source of infinite energy does it perhaps possess an unfathomable consciousness can it replicate without limit

[unique tangle]

Void is an all consuming nothingness
looks inside
another infection which just takes over hosts and enhances their powers

[twin dragon]

fantasy is actually slop bro

[stray grove]

Does it defy the laws of nature????

[gentle aspen]

void isn’t dragging pharloom into the abyss what

[hard widget]

Metaphorically speaking

[gentle aspen]

I’m going to bed

[edgy nebula]

can we get a third and fourth hk game where you have to travel from east to west and west to east respectively

[twin dragon]

all fantasy is exactly the same

[hard widget]

It’s dooming pharloom and destroying everything and everyone in it as their souls get consumed

[sinful nimbus]

it would be really cool if we added an ancient civilization which jumped into the void haha!

[hard widget]

It’s not getting physically dragged into the space of the abyss everything alive is just getting swallowed by void

[twin dragon]

why is half of the channel sk-larp

[edgy nebula]

did you guys see that chinese silksong theory posted yesterday

it was cool

[hard widget]

Everyone’s pushing agenda

[twin dragon]

i mean i should know better it always is

[spark valve]

What’s the short version

[edgy nebula]

connected conductors to nameless town and also to sea of sorrow somehow

[twin dragon]

??

[stray grove]

Sounds like yap

[hard widget]

I don’t see it

[unique tangle]

The sea of sorrow which doesn’t exist yet?

[twin dragon]

from where the fuck

[hard widget]

Weavers beckoned nameless town residents to become the first pilgrims

[unique tangle]

Or is this a different sea of sorrow?

[stray grove]

No wait I know what it was

I can guess

[edgy nebula]

they used a pattern on ballador's wall and lined it up with the sea of sorrow lab design as proof that conductors used to worship the lifeblood god

[stray grove]

Ok so Old Penitent being from Nameless Town was the theory mossbag perpetuated and there was also the theory that Old Penitent was Romino because SS fans can’t hear

[hard widget]

God imagine the trail of emptied villages leading to the gates of pharloom, the remnants of the peaceful simple bugs sacrificed to keep solk asleep

[stray grove]

Therefore Old Penitent who is Romino also came from the Nameless Town

[edgy nebula]

basically it was

conductors are tied to nameless town

nameless town used to be underwater and the nameless town citizens were the barnacle people

[stray grove]

We actually just saying shit

This isn’t a theory this is fanon 🥀

[spark valve]

Now this is some spicy nonsense

[edgy nebula]

oh they also said they used silk surgeries to transfer their bodies to the big conductors bodies

[twin dragon]

Im lining up 5 trees near my house, e33 must be a unique game

[stray grove]

Shine Lord more canon than ts

[edgy nebula]

i can get the theory link rq, there are english subtitles

[hard widget]

Yeah please

[stray grove]

No don’t care not watching it

[hard widget]

I wanna dig into it

[twin dragon]

a theory is usually well substantiated but wtv

Most of these can't read either way

[edgy nebula]

here

[sinful nimbus]

back when wiki didn't have singing files

[edgy nebula]

i do think the initial conductor nameless town connection has solid evidence

conductor balladors chamber is literally a nameless town house

[hard widget]

There’s not really much support for the old penitent being from nameless town. Cool headcanon but the game doesn’t directly or indirectly support it

[unique tangle]

I think it’s just a general pharloom design, garmond’s hat is also onion shaped

Unless garmond is also from nameless town

[hard widget]

Can you pull up photos of both

[unique tangle]

Is that something people believe?

[hard widget]

Silk doesn’t really make bugs bigger either

Not like the infection does

It jsut puppets their existing corpses

[unique tangle]

Just eat silk and become fat

[hard widget]

The only canon example of this is lace’s thighs

[gentle aspen]

don’t be weird

[unique tangle]

Lace eating all the silk is why phantom starved to death 💔

[twin dragon]

she doesn't puppet them

[hard widget]

I’m fat shaming her not sexualizing her

[twin dragon]

she ties their mind with hers

and revives them in the case that they're dead

[edgy nebula]

alot of the guys theory was about symbolism aswell so it isnt direct evidence

[hard widget]

Hmm… do lvoe me some symbolism….

Is the link posted

[edgy nebula]

he says he thinks that balladors chamber symbolizes his regrets in becoming a conductor and wanting to escape back to the past which honestly is cool

[hard widget]

Are there runes on the cage or are they just cobwebs

[edgy nebula]

well theyre able to transfer bugs souls into silkflies

[hard widget]

I’d boot up the game but my Steamdeck is packed up

[edgy nebula]

cobwebs i think

that or just texture

i dont think the theory has the most merit but it's well made and fun to speculate about

[hard widget]

It looks almost like a Godtuner

[twin dragon]

it paints conductors in a position of pity

[unique tangle]

Does that mean all the conductors think that way too?

[twin dragon]

which is unfitting

[edgy nebula]

doubt it

[unique tangle]

We see the other two conductors chambers

[hard widget]

The conductors should be pitied but that pity doesn’t excuse their heinous crimes

[unique tangle]

They look the same

[hard widget]

Like the weavers

[unique tangle]

They all share the same chamber design

Are all three from the nameless town?

[edgy nebula]

do we see the other chambers?? where

[unique tangle]

Act 3

[hard widget]

The conductors didn’t ask for the position they were put in but they did awful awful things with their power

[unique tangle]

When the room collapses 2 other chambers can be seen

[twin dragon]

they could've resigned

btw

[hard widget]

Including putting up all the tacky guilded bullshit

[twin dragon]

they had ALL the power

[hard widget]

And what? Ended the song and released silk?

[twin dragon]

They felt entitled to eternal leadership as if nobody could do better

[unique tangle]

You can see one here

And there’s another in the room

[twin dragon]

they also just mowed down efficiency in favour of appeal

[unique tangle]

Which I’ll have to go ingame to find

But there’s 3

And they all share the same design

[hard widget]

I mean they arguable boosted efficiency by cogging everything up to the max but that means sucking everyone’s souls out

Honestly I wish we released grandmother silk in the cradle by ending the song rather then her just popping out

Like shutting down the core

Maybe we get to hit a giant ass lever

God the citadel lever sound effect is my favorite in the entire game

[twin dragon]

Nope since the ministers did jack shit

[twin dragon]

the citadel was already silent

she's woken up essentially

[hard widget]

The core was still going right?

Just the voices fell silent

[twin dragon]

Nope

the core was never turned on

actually

[hard widget]

The architect says the core would be sustained even in the event of her death

[twin dragon]

it needed activation

[twin dragon]

Yeah but also mentions it is unfinished

sustained by the cogwork automatons

opfc

[hard widget]

Fuck did I miss something that big

Hold on lemme read her dialogue

[spark valve]

They say this after hornet turns it on

[unique tangle]

This reads like it is functional

[edgy nebula]

even if the core was turned on destruction would still be inevitable cause architects are no longer being made and nothing lasts forever

and also gms already has control over everyone so no one would be saved

[unique tangle]

This reads like twelfth is only talking about the architect melody here

Not the whole purpose of the core

[twin dragon]

Btw did the pilgrims of the past acquire the architect's melody from the architects that remembered it

to finish their journey

[unique tangle]

Just the system to replay the architect melody

[hard widget]

Yeha that’s what i thought

[twin dragon]

The entire core was meant to play the song

[spark valve]

That is the purpose of the core

[hard widget]

The mechanism at the top is threefold melodic storage, the core itself is playing the song to keep silk asleep as intended

[unique tangle]

Yeah and the majority of the core is working, it sounds like architect is just saying this section which they used to store the threefold melody was unfinished

Plus there’s also that choral commandment

Lo is eternity sustained or something

Which sounds pretty much like they got it finished

For sure yea

The song was never gonna work forever anyways, even if you automate it, that’s why the weavers left the citadel to the conductors according to Ballador

[hard widget]

It’s kind of like how the black egg continued to work as intended but the radiance continued to strain against her bonds and eventually gained enough power to spread her influence. Despite the seal still holding, it weakened enough for the captive god du jour to start spreading influence

[spark valve]

Archi calls it near complete this just isn’t ambiguous

[spark valve]

That’s also not true but whatever it’s a common misconception atp and people are entrenched

[hard widget]

“Constructs old to house our song” implies it’s the architects melody

[edgy nebula]

the main core works but the architect room doesnt, its near-cpmplete as she says

[twin dragon]

That's an edict

[stray grove]

Are we doing this again man

[hard widget]

Which makes sense since that same construct plays the architects melody

[twin dragon]

yeah bum

[spark valve]

Yes that’s part of the core

[stray grove]

istg this channel has three topics

[spark valve]

Silksong fans can’t read what do you expect

[unique tangle]

Yes it is

[stray grove]

Can we go back to Phantom gender or smth that’s probably preferable atp

[unique tangle]

It’s called that ingame too

[edgy nebula]

woman

[hard widget]

Her pronouns are THEY THEM

[spark valve]

Who caaares

[twin dragon]

unemployed kirb does

[stray grove]

Wiki apparently cares a lot

[hard widget]

Where’s that guy on Reddit who got the gender data for pharloom

[spark valve]

The wiki has a raging transphobe on the staff who gaf

[stray grove]

Since when were we on a first name basis get in line mf

[twin dragon]

???

[unique tangle]

Who needs phantom’s gender when you can save lace without ever interacting with phantom

[hard widget]

Raging transphobes when the source material referrs to someone as as non binary

[unique tangle]

Literal non-character

Gimme lace

[hard widget]

Yeah but the theme song

[stray grove]

Phantom being a non character is actually important though

That’s like the whole point

[unique tangle]

Phantom? Sorry I don’t see a phantom in my bestiary

[hard widget]

Either the last judge exists or phantom does

[edgy nebula]

doesnt excuse her mid writing tbf

[stray grove]

It’s not mid

[hard widget]

Which way liberal

[edgy nebula]

youre right it doesnt exist

nonexistent writing

[hard widget]

See the joke here is that you’re being forced for an either/or decision when both options are completely valid

[unique tangle]

TC made it so you can only get true ending with last judge, checkmate

[spark valve]

Phantom is pretty bland be fr

[stray grove]

Genuinely what more do you want the whole point of her is to characterize Lace

[hard widget]

That’s cuz you didn’t reach them first

[spark valve]

Nothing it’s fine for her to be bland

[sinful nimbus]

Phantom has aura

[edgy nebula]

lace 2 dialogue

[spark valve]

But that is what she is

[twin dragon]

What there is of phantom is pretty cool but there's .25 of a line of lore

[hard widget]

Phantom is bland when you’re halfway through act 2 coming back but when you’re still stuck with act 1 equipment it’s a real challenge

[spark valve]

Yes it’s building towards that

[unique tangle]

Nuh uh, phantom also characterizes the muckmaggots, without phantom we wouldn’t have those wonderful bloatroaches

I love bloatroaches

[stray grove]

Yeah I agree I just don’t think it’s fair to criticize her for what she’s supposed to be

[hard widget]

What I don’t get about phantom is how they can steambend

[edgy nebula]

phantom is an optional hard to find boss who also has optional hard to find lore

[sinful nimbus]

Act 3 is supposed to be ultra secret for the hardcore fans

[hard widget]

How can silk control steam

[spark valve]

She’s still boring

[unique tangle]

What can’t silk do tho?

[stray grove]

By design yes

[unique tangle]

Silk can literally do everything

[sinful nimbus]

bro what

[spark valve]

Then tc hates the fans which uh based alert

[hard widget]

Stave off the void

lol

[unique tangle]

All the various unique powers back in HK just had their jobs replaced by silk

[edgy nebula]

silk can also do this

[twin dragon]

unique

and its js soul blob a madman created in his basement

[hard widget]

Oh you can’t say h*rny

[sinful nimbus]

Phantom being more interesting concept wise wouldn't detract from her being the forgotten and discarded child

[hard widget]

Even in reference to the white lady

Weird

[stray grove]

This is like complaining about BV being boring

[unique tangle]

I mean the infection was not soul and not essence and not void, meanwhile silk does the job of all of the above and more!!!

[spark valve]

And if somebody was yapping about bv being an interesting character I’d say the same

[hard widget]

Broken vessel being boring is more a symptom of it supposed to be where Hornet ended up being

[unique tangle]

Get silk today and replace all your old clunky power systems

[twin dragon]

There is correlation between silk and essence

and the haunting is js a spell

that also has to do with essence in some capacity as it is memory related

[sinful nimbus]

What if BV being a girl is to contrast against TK becoming a man with king's brand

[unique tangle]

I don’t see how this disproves the point that silk does everything

[stray grove]

Nobody is saying Phantom is interesting I’m just saying she is ultimately successful at what she sets out to do so pointing to her as an example of TC being incompetent writers is strange

[hard widget]

Assigned gender at wyrm

[spark valve]

I’m listening

[twin dragon]

The fact that soul always did everything

It's not new

[sinful nimbus]

I'm brainstorming stop listening and start thinking

[unique tangle]

Nuh uh, if soul did everything then soul master would’ve been final boss

[spark valve]

HK is about taking responsibility which is a masculine trait or whatever

[unique tangle]

But no he’s just a mid game fight

[edgy nebula]

real silksong fans know hornet x thistlewine is canon

[twin dragon]

well the void doesnt do everything and a voided croissant is the final boss

[stray grove]

It’s called the king’s brand not the queen’s brand checkmate woke liberals

[sinful nimbus]

THK represents toxic masculinity and TK becoming a man while still assuming responsibility is a rejection of that yes

I just don't know where BV fits in with being a girl

[stray grove]

Bury my sisters two by two

[hard widget]

I always thought THK represented the sins of the father

[twin dragon]

whos bv

[spark valve]

Wow so every failure is a female? Sexist much?

[stray grove]

The discarded vessels were female because PK needed a male one to shoulder the burden

[unique tangle]

A voided croissant who only exists cause silk is able to combine with the void and create this ultra powerful thingy child

[sinful nimbus]

TRUTH NUKE

[twin dragon]

the void always did do that

doe

[unique tangle]

Silk is also doing its thing of doing everything

[twin dragon]

thats not even a silk thing atp

💔

[hard widget]

It’s ironic how the pale king loved one vessel and discarded the rest while it was that love which doomed them all

[spark valve]

Is it a mind flayer scenario where he was just waiting for the male one

[stray grove]

No

[hard widget]

God when team cherry cooks they cook

[stray grove]

Literally not what happened

[twin dragon]

male mind flayers are placebo

[sinful nimbus]

bro what if every vessel in the abyss had wavy horns

[twin dragon]

its the herobrine of ultrakill

if you've seen one

you didn't

[hard widget]

What’s your interpretation then

[unique tangle]

I think that would ruin the franchise

Who would even come up with such an idea

[stray grove]

My “interpretation” is that THK was always going to fail regardless of what PK did or didn’t do as WL literally tells us

[sinful nimbus]

if only powdered lived to see this moment 😔

[stray grove]

And that makes for a more compelling narrative if anything

PK having formed a bond with THK is an important character moment but it’s not what doomed the kingdom, the kingdom was always doomed

[hard widget]

While I like the idea that any vessel will always fail the white lady said the hollow knight was “tarnished by an idea instilled”

[stray grove]

No she doesn’t say that

Read the full sentence please

[spark valve]

We get it you can read

[stray grove]

Reading is overrated anyway

[hard widget]

Even if she’s lying through her teeth it still makes for a lovely piece of dramatic irony

[stray grove]

She’s not lying bruh

[twin dragon]

Pk bonding js to send his kid to the worst gulag ever

[sinful nimbus]

why are y'all being bums just use hallowscribe

[stray grove]

You just need to read the full sentence

“Its supposed strength was ill judged (as) it was tarnished by an idea instilled”

[random harbor]

White Lady - General - After picking up White Fragment

Within my roots, the weakening of the Vessel I plainly feel. Only two obvious outcomes there are from such a thing.
The first is inevitable on current course, regression, all minds relinquished to that pernicious plague.
The second I find preferable, and would seek your aid in its occurance, replacement.
I implore you, usurp the Vessel. Its supposed strength was ill-judged. It was tarnished by an idea instilled. But you. You are free of such blemishes. You could contain that thing inside.

@starpengu used /npcs misc name: White Lady category: General dialogue: After picking up White Fragment

[stray grove]

The idea instilled was PROOF of its impurity

Not the CAUSE

[spark valve]

WL isn’t lying she can’t even sense purity and doesn’t realize that’s the case until vh

[stray grove]

If it were the cause its SUPPOSED strength wouldn’t be ILL-JUDGED

[stray grove]

I mean yeah they were just assuming purity was the base state

[hard widget]

What does VH stand for

[sinful nimbus]

was the idea instilled the idea that men should be emotionless

[spark valve]

Even if you force the reading that WL’s saying that’s why it failed it’s missing the context of her being wrong

[stray grove]

Void Heart

[hard widget]

Ah I see

[stray grove]

Purity discussions in the big 26

Star you missed DOVP

Bad old days

[twin dragon]

blackwyrm discussion mogs

[unique tangle]

Why does TC insist on writing WL as being dumb

[sinful nimbus]

tf is dovp

[hard widget]

The idea instilled is implied to be its capacity for connection and forming bonds, at least according to the path of pain cutscene

[sinful nimbus]

oh discussion of vessel purity

[twin dragon]

i love me some meaningful meaningless namedrops

[sinful nimbus]

I know ball

[stray grove]

You know what it is

[sinful nimbus]

we didn't even invite you to discussion of lace age btw

bum

[stray grove]

That was never that serious

[hard widget]

This jit cracks fabric

[spark valve]

I mean that was just actually gross, silksong fan try not to be evil moment

[stray grove]

Silksong fan explaining how Hornet killing the Slabflies is good actually

[twin dragon]

as if dovp isnt just a fundamental misunderstanding of the story

[edgy nebula]

what is dovp

[foggy stratus]

What's going on?

[sinful nimbus]

if you believe in pure vessels you support the patriarchy btw

[unique tangle]

We’re discussing lace’s age and vessel purity, and slabflies again

Throw in lifeblood while we’re at it

[edgy nebula]

an sk-lore special

[stray grove]

Yeah Hornet is also an environmental terrorist thanks for the reminder

[sinful nimbus]

karmelita heart 😍

[spark valve]

I don't think she fits that definition

[foggy stratus]

Lace is physically and mentally a child, Vessels arent Pure and Hornet is just racist ig.

[spark valve]

she's more like an oil baron

[hard widget]

I mean if they’re left alive they’re just going to kidnap more people right? They’re a violent tool of the citadel for suppressing dissent and punishing anyone who steps out of line. The fact that they’re guilt-bound to the position makes them tragic but not justified

[sinful nimbus]

oh my god bruh

[edgy nebula]

deadass what is it

[unique tangle]

Oh thank god, you just saved us another two hours of meaningless drama

[twin dragon]

Hornet does try to cope with the fact to gilly

[spark valve]

holy strawman

[stray grove]

Are eco terrorist and environmental terrorist not distinct in their usage

[twin dragon]

her own ambitions made her take karm's heart or smt

[edgy nebula]

it is a difficult thing to explain simply

[spark valve]

not really and I also don't know if it would qualify as terrorism

[hard widget]

The slabflies, like the conductors, can stop serving in their role any time they want. They’re brainwashed into service like everyone else in pharloom. Doesn’t justify the imprisonment and torture of countless bugs in the slab

[edgy nebula]

is it even explained to hornet that killing hearts destroys their biomes

[spark valve]

not the issue anybody takes with hornet's attitude

[edgy nebula]

theyre slaves

slabflies are slaves theyre born into servitud

[unique tangle]

Most well written piece of dialogue I’ve ever read, I wish Hornet would say this in response to literally every prompt

[twin dragon]

they're LITERALLY haunted slaves

[stray grove]

Yeah yeah she’s not doing it for ideological reasons or wtv but come on it’s funnier than calling her an oil baron

[hard widget]

This is true for 99% of pharloom

[unique tangle]

Why need to come up with a reason when it can be “difficult to explain simply”

[spark valve]

nobody is saying the flies aren't doing bad things or that hornet isn't justified in self defense, the issue is what hornet says about them

[foggy stratus]

The Conductors need to keep doing what they're doing to stop GMS from fully waking, although recently its kinda pointless. Slab Flies are literally slaves.

[stray grove]

The flies are only doing bad things because they’re literally born into servitude btw

[twin dragon]

The conductors still failed btw

they fucked up big time

[stray grove]

They don’t actually want to do those things if you read their Needolin dialogue

[twin dragon]

thats the whole point

[stray grove]

They have to

Because they are literally slaves

Some of them are also literally children even

[unique tangle]

Reading is hard ok

I read once, it was a terrible experience

[hard widget]

I need to reread the wiki sheet of all the needolin dialogue

[stray grove]

This is disregarding that they’re not only slaves but also possessed

[spark valve]

some of that makes hornet look even worse btw

[hard widget]

I never used the needolin in game

[stray grove]

It doesn’t matter

[unique tangle]

Dw no one did

[stray grove]

Even if the flies enjoy doing bad things it’s irrelevant

Hornet still acknowledges they don’t have any agency in HER OWN JOURNAL

[hard widget]

So with the flies it’s an entire species enslaved to be cops to the citadel. And Hornet wants to wipe them out because she hates them

[stray grove]

She in the same breath acknowledges a child was born into slavery while also declaring she feels no sympathy for murdering them

[sinful nimbus]

Light! Light!
Mother...
Eat! Eat!
Warm air...

The less these gruesome bugs breed, the better.
You can tell two different devs wrote these

[spark valve]

tc are just shit writers no reasonable person should've let hornet declaring that a sapient group of people should just stop breeding get out of a rough draft

[edgy nebula]

same girl who said "it is not where or why we were born, it is what we do with the gift of life" last game

[hard widget]

I mean she is a rich nepo baby

[stray grove]

Me when I understand nothing about Hornet’s character

[foggy stratus]

One of them are shit writers. Clearly they can write decent dialogue.

[spark valve]

and yeah it's literally character assassination

[stray grove]

By the way when a writer puts something like that in a game and it isn’t challenged in any way irrespective of the person saying it it’s kind of uh gross

The way it’s framed we’re supposed to just agree with it and move on

[edgy nebula]

the slab instantly drops the game's rating by like 2 points and act 3 drops this even lower

[sinful nimbus]

david kazi wrote hunter's entries. sad but true 😔

[edgy nebula]

ign somehow ranked this game too high

[unique tangle]

Dave HAD have been the writer and that’s how HK ended up so good, and why SS ended up going to shit

[foggy stratus]

They're gonna change it in SoS hopefully.

[stray grove]

The sad part is the slab is actually a great area aside from that massive stain

[hard widget]

I mean if you completely rewrote the game and kept the mechanics intact it’d still be an 8.5/10

[spark valve]

I mean that at least accounted for the stupid wishes

[stray grove]

They can’t write decent dialogue either 🥀

[hard widget]

Unless the story was the literal worst

[edgy nebula]

yeah the flies are an amazing telling of how corruptive the citadel is

[sinful nimbus]

its a nice game

[edgy nebula]

but then hornet comes along 😭

[spark valve]

it's a compelling and evocative microcosm of the larger themes and then hornet does a little silly and now it's just vaguely eugenics coded

[sinful nimbus]

as pointed out the slab is well written ignoring these entries but like wow wtf

[foggy stratus]

Hell just make Hornet not know they're slaves and rewrite the Freshfly and Brood Mother entries and it'll be fairly fine.

[stray grove]

WHAT

[sinful nimbus]

meet potential DLC

[hard widget]

I wonder what an ethical solution to the fly issue even is

Do the babies come out of the womb haunted?

Would they be able to be integrated into whatever society emerges post act3?

Does Hornet jsut need to check her privilege?

[stray grove]

You know how the entire kingdom is haunted but Hornet isn’t attacking every haunted bug she finds with genocidal intent? Yea that

[sinful nimbus]

well dismantle the citadel and kill GMS is probably a start

[stray grove]

Which she’s doing anyway

[hard widget]

This is what caused act 3 though

[stray grove]

She just decided the flies specifically had to go

[stray grove]

lol ok

[foggy stratus]

Act Three is all the Shamans' fault.

[sinful nimbus]

act 3 is still a net positive its also more or less Lace's fault

[stray grove]

It’s nobody’s fault

[sinful nimbus]

keep the shamans name OUT OF YOUR MOUTH

[unique tangle]

Nono it’s my fault

[edgy nebula]

a third hk game where you play as a fly that goes over prejudice would be cool (if it does it well)

[unique tangle]

I take responsibility

[hard widget]

It’s the shaman’s fault for setting up the snare the way they did and hornet’s fault for not asking questions about the details

[foggy stratus]

I like Hallownest Shamans, Pharloom Shamans need to go take a long soak in the Void.

[sinful nimbus]

Did he recognise my part played in this land's void-strung state? If so, perhaps his judgment was not unfair. To these bugs I have brought much destruction.
?
?
?
what is she yapping about

[edgy nebula]

it's hornet's fault in general

[stray grove]

Dismantling the citadel and killing GMS isn’t what causes act 3 anyway it’s that the void started acting in a way nobody could possibly have anticipated

[hard widget]

I consider their penance paid when they immolate themselves to get the flower

[sinful nimbus]

PK would've foresaw it

[edgy nebula]

even if she did know about the snare she shouldve been more careful

[stray grove]

The shamans aren’t at fault it was a good plan and would have worked

This is just reductive

[edgy nebula]

she got caught and wouldve died even if the snare wasnt void

[sinful nimbus]

Maybe he could stop being a bum and tell Hornet that in the future the void will behave like that in Pharloom

[stray grove]

Also ignoring that when it comes to the slabflies specifically it’s not like Hornet had advanced knowledge of that fact

What a stupid argument

[hard widget]

I don’t think that’s true cuz otherwise the weavers would’ve been able to use the snare

The Shamans had to give it the ol void special to get it up to god killing status

[sinful nimbus]

I mean that's just a risk when you fight a god

Not a moral failing

[foggy stratus]

The Shamans also try to deflect with the whole "you should have known our family's obsession" or whatever they say, when Hornet would have no way of knowing the Shamans are freaky with the Void.

[unique tangle]

Hornet saying she understands the drastic methods WL and PK took to stop Rad while at the same time condemns the shamans for using the void

[hard widget]

It’s not like the shamans in hollow knight would’ve even had access to the void with how the pale king was

He was max cagey about it

[sinful nimbus]

ts really what they tried to pull when they introduced a totally new character trait that goes against the first game

"Yeah we've always done that didn't you know?"

[foggy stratus]

They also are stated to have never looked around the Abyss.

[stray grove]

She doesn’t understand the drastic methods PK used she calls him a fool for even trying it

[hard widget]

Yeah exactly. I attribute this to PK

[stray grove]

Also she doesn’t seem to like him very much in general

[hard widget]

We don’t really know how long the snail shamans live even

[unique tangle]

Then what on earth was she talking about to WL then if it wasn’t about the void and vessels

[stray grove]

She’s chill with WL for reasons that are beyond TC apparently even though WL’s RM dialogue paints her as atrocious

[unique tangle]

What does Hornet understand???

[foggy stratus]

I attribute it to the Shamans never going out looking for Void because it doesnt concern them.

[sinful nimbus]

White Lady's parenting style

[hard widget]

I bet they’re long lived, about the same as weavers. Halfway between common bugs and the gods

[sinful nimbus]

Its a dumb dialogue

[unique tangle]

Seriously?? Really??

[sinful nimbus]

...For our ways you will think us harsh... You will think us uncaring, unrepentant...
...And so we must seem, for such is the cost of our wish...
Hornet: You are wrong, Lady...
Hornet: I knew the wish, and the price to achieve it. And now, across these many ages, I have only come to know it better...
Hornet: Strength... in mind, in care, in claw. Strength enough that I may live to see a world better than our own, or to craft a world as I desire.
Hornet: That was the wish, of my mother, of my mentor, and of you...
...Indeed, spider... So much pain you must have passed to speak our hope so simply...

[unique tangle]

wtf that’s atrocious writing then

[hard widget]

I still don’t get the white lady parenting hate

[sinful nimbus]

The wish is for Hornet to be strong "in mind, in care, in claw"

[stray grove]

It’s less about her as a character and more about TC being bad writers

[unique tangle]

Why would they end the red memory on that??

[sinful nimbus]

The intent isn't for her to come across as abusive but her telling her child that she'll think of her as uncaring and unrepentant is strange

[edgy nebula]

i wonder if strength in mind care and claw is referencing hornets mothers

[stray grove]

It’s called tough love

[edgy nebula]

mind would be herrah, care wl, and claw vespa

[spark valve]

I hurt you because I love you ahh

[stray grove]

fr

That’s why good mothers are good and bad mothers are bad

[kindred ingot]

what's the topic here?

[hard widget]

Cuz the world of hollow knight is genuinely an incredibly harsh world and pale beings be FIGHTING with each other so without the skills her moms gave her she would’ve died long long ago

[edgy nebula]

bad skong writing i think

[sinful nimbus]

No they end it on obtaining the anti void macguffin pay attention

[stray grove]

But yeah Hornet probably sees the Vessel project as irredeemably evil or wtv she just doesn’t see WL as complicit for some reason

[unique tangle]

So she’s just telling hornet skill issue

[sinful nimbus]

Red Memory in general focuses on motherhood to contrast against GMS and that's fine this dialogue is just bad

[edgy nebula]

the only game where pale beings fight eachother is in silksong, let that sink in

[spark valve]

that doesn't really seem like her outlook but whatever she's a moron

[hard widget]

Maybe cuz her part of it was getting real good coitus

[edgy nebula]

unless you count tk smacking pk for the kingsoul

[hard widget]

Versus her dad who made the plan and threw them all down to die

[stray grove]

Why’d she call PK a fool for attempting that then

[spark valve]

she forgot kingsmoulds exist

[hard widget]

Cuz tampering with the void is really really really stupid

[spark valve]

she's senile

[edgy nebula]

silksong dream theory where hornet got put into a coma after her fall

[sinful nimbus]

she also forgot that THK existed

[kindred ingot]

there's a lot of stuff in Silksong about Pale Beings fighting (Pale Beings fighting Old Hearts, Pale Beings fighting Void, Pale Beings fighting other Pale Beings, ect)

[foggy stratus]

Selective blindness or something.

[stray grove]

And Vessels apparently!

[edgy nebula]

thats why silksong makes no sense

[sinful nimbus]

ummm where are the spelling mistakes to indicate that?

[unique tangle]

“Probably” man if only there was a situation where TC could’ve actually explicitly portrayed Hornet’s perspective on the whole situation

[stray grove]

Well no she remembers Vessels exist in her Lace dialogue she just hit her head really hard during the act 3 intro

[edgy nebula]

silksong is the only hk game where pbs fight other pbs

[sinful nimbus]

Hornet forgetting Phantom exists in the one dialogue

Forgotten and discarded 😔

[kindred ingot]

tbf we only have 2 hk games

[stray grove]

Hornet forgetting Garmond’s gender

[hard widget]

I was just typing this lmao

[kindred ingot]

and HK1 only had 2 Pale Beings

[hard widget]

And they were married and working together to control their kingdom

[edgy nebula]

i wonder how hornet broke the news to lace after sotv that she killed her sister that she vented to on a regular basis

[sinful nimbus]

PK was abusive to WL who was abusive to Hornet, it ties in with the cycles of oppression theme brilliantly

[hard widget]

Maybe conjoining their souls made them one being spiritually

[stray grove]

What is blud yapping about

[hard widget]

PK was not abusive to her what

[kindred ingot]

Silksong has uh... Hornet, GMS, White Lady, Palestag, the implied Pale Being that used to exist alongside the Void Cult but died of unknown causes... that makes it 5

[unique tangle]

I wonder if that’s better than Hornet and Lace just leaving and forgetting about phantom existing entirely

[hard widget]

Otherwise she wouldn’t say “it feels like I am in the presence of my dear Wyrm again” or something when you get kings brand

[sinful nimbus]

Its thematically coherent

[edgy nebula]

"yoo lace i killed your sister" cue lace 4

[kindred ingot]

sibling*

[hard widget]

I disagree

[spark valve]

I mean lace probably understands it's a mercy kill she was suffering in a way lace was terrified of

[kindred ingot]

PK is an awesome father and that's a major plot point

[hard widget]

Nothing the white lady says about PK implies that he was abusive to her

[sinful nimbus]

Lace fights Hornet because she misgendered Phantom ofc

[kindred ingot]

oh, yeah, ofc

[sinful nimbus]

Pale beings just do that though

[hard widget]

He’s such a good dad he let his kids play around in the void

[kindred ingot]

he's a bad father but a good dad

[stray grove]

What does this even mean

[hard widget]

They fight and dominate each other, but these two had literally conjoined their souls together in an act of union

[stray grove]

Incoherent

[edgy nebula]

amazing king bad dad