sk-lore

[fading shard]

or city

or faction

[kindred ingot]

did you just miss the "other planets" example?

[hard widget]

A hiker have you ever done a DBQ before

Document-based question

[fading shard]

given that I know not of what that means no I have not

or maybe I have but never realized that was what it is called

nonetheless I would appreciate if you did explain

[hard widget]

Its a common high school exercise for history and literature classes where you take a document, analyze the content, and make assumptions about the source and how it relates to the rest of the relevant j fo

Info

Let’s treat all five kings idol entries like this sort of document

[fading shard]

and lemm in none of them says anything about the pale king that you implied

[kindred ingot]

this one is better, I think

[tawdry flare]

American here. We just took notes. We ain’t doing no BBQs in class

[fading shard]

and which one of these are you trying to efer to

the one that mentions the blemishes

[hard widget]

I’m talking APs

[fading shard]

because yeah the pale king by no means is perfect

nobody is implying the pale king is a saint wretched

he's got a ego and commited great crimes (alongside his wife) to his kids

and is complicit in maggot discrimination

[fading shard]

here I just gave 3 examples of actual flaws the pale king possessed

[hard widget]

No. The king is rarely seen by his people, defied by them, and boosted his image to be viewed as all powerful among his subjects

[kindred ingot]

and he invented capitalism

no wait not capitalism

Hallownest is not capitalist, nvm

[hard widget]

He encouraged his people to view him as faultless to hide his own sins and maintain conformity in the common bugs

[kindred ingot]

he invented social inequality

[hard widget]

Such as the sort of sin that dispossessing people of their land would be

[fading shard]

you're just making stuff up

[foggy stratus]

The people invented social inequality.

[hard widget]

I’m building a point

[fading shard]

You do realize that silksong

[kindred ingot]

who's the people, we're talking about bugs

[foggy stratus]

Yes.

[fading shard]

literally goes out of it's way to talk about every single faction the citadel has wronged

even though the citadel tried to hide it's sins

[kindred ingot]

he invented a society that allows social inequality to exist, and most probably supported it

[fading shard]

and paint itself as a benevolent place

[twin dragon]

citadel got the best propaganda

[fading shard]

team cherry literally make the point of showing you the sins hte place is hiding

this does not happen to the pale king

evey time other land is mentioned

it's either said he left it alone

or they joined him willingly

[hard widget]

The reason this matters in Silksong is becuase people are still alive while hallownest is a dead and forgotten kingdom

[fading shard]

from sources not of teh pale kings

[fading shard]

we literally get lore tablets from the shrumal stating why they joined him

seer stating the moths joined him out of their own volition

not out of some deal

and we have the mantis lords being stated to have made a deal with him

and that the mosskin were independant

[foggy stratus]

Hallownest isnt forgotten. Also a dead kingdom likely would have more proof of prior sins since no one is able to cover them up.

[fading shard]

but a road built which they could govern

[fading shard]

also since when was hallownest forgotten?

It's literally the most successful and well known kingdom cannoically in teh hollow knight universe

[hard widget]

Yeah yeah bad word choice there

[fading shard]

elder bug literally states there have been many

that even after the kingdoms death

[hard widget]

there is zero way to prove this

[fading shard]

come to seek it out

[fading shard]

there is by game statements

and what's shown

[hard widget]

Yeah looters adventurers and treasure seekers

[tawdry flare]

Pale King propaganda

[fading shard]

Historians

[fading shard]

I am not referring to what the pale king said

I'm saying what other characters state

[twin dragon]

Fuck they gonna know

they dont have intellect outside of pk's kingdom

[hard widget]

^^^^

[foggy stratus]

They still have intellect.

[fading shard]

hallownest literally had a TON of people coming to hallownest in it's golden ages and still do

to seek the kingdom out

most of pharlooms people are just the pilgrims

and people from pharloom

as shakra and garmond are from pharloom

[foggy stratus]

Also tbh this feels like a very "kings=evil" type of thing.

[hard widget]

Shakes isn’t from pharloom

[fading shard]

yes she is

[hard widget]

Yes!

[foggy stratus]

That's just not true tho.

[fading shard]

"Warrior cartographer of a tribe from Pharloom's edge. Her skills in battle could challenge the kingdom's best."

this isn't said by hornet this is said by meta narrative

for her hunter's journal entry so you can't even argue against it

[foggy stratus]

Being a king doesn't inherently make you evil.

[fading shard]

and the fleas seem to be from pharloom as the large flea was a creature locked up in the memorium

and basically every other character comes from pharloom

hallownest is said to be filled to the brim with all likes coming to hallownest

and knowing of hallownest

[spark valve]

fantasy settings often involve suspending some understandings about certain systems of governance

[hard widget]

See i’d agree with this if Silksong didn’t make a point of showing how higher beings and their clashes and attempts at rule always swallow up the lives of the bugs caught between them

And the first game does this as well

[fading shard]

and the pale king is showed to be an exception

[spark valve]

that's a very different message than all the hbs being evil

[foggy stratus]

Literally every encounter the PK has with other tribes is peaceful.

[fading shard]

also the pale king is literally an exception to this as he goes against the very thing the mask maker states by being chill with unn and marrying the white lady

[hard widget]

The pale king goes to an area with numerous thriving cultures, elevates a number of bugs to higher thought to worship him, takes over the entire thing, and then tries to cheat his kingdom’s death when a calamity of his making arises through mass infanticide

[twin dragon]

tbf there are lots of pilgrims

[fading shard]

He is literally the sole exception

[fading shard]

hallownest is said to have had a ton of pilgrims and a bunch others coming there too

[foggy stratus]

If I'm being fully honest you just seem to have a predisposition towards thinking Kings, and likely inturn monarchs in general, are inherently evil and thats warping your perception of PK.

[twin dragon]

Yeah but yk, there are so many kingdoms

Pk isnt evil

[spark valve]

ok some of this is due to radiance breaking out at least currently

[foggy stratus]

Oh so you also blame the infection on PK. Good to know.

[twin dragon]

He has commited evil acts but out of supposed good will

[hard widget]

It’s actually a predisposition towards disliking gods which is shared by numerous characters in both games

[spark valve]

but even during the kingdom's height there was traffic

[hard widget]

The pale king was not the sole cause of the infection but it was a consequence of his rule for sure

[plain ruin]

Is there Radiance support going on here?

[fading shard]

nubbie my friend (I think we're pals right ;-;) you do at least have to agree that hallownest is canonically a really great kingdom

[fading shard]

are you saying he should have not showed up

[twin dragon]

Compared to what we've seen yeah its def livable

[spark valve]

something being a consequence of your actions and you being morally responsible for them are in fact different things

[hard widget]

It’s the fault of the moths for not maintaining their worship of the radiance, but the pale king would not have allowed a rival god in his domain

[foggy stratus]

Its the Moth's fault. He literally just existed. Thats the extent of it.

[fading shard]

isn't it literally said to be a great kingdom and have that be supported multiple times

[spark valve]

yes he would he straight up did

[fading shard]

..............UNN

[low oracle]

[plain ruin]

Pale King existed alongside Unn and White Lady

[twin dragon]

Yeah but there are still flaws yk

like inequality and the rich engaging in sapientophagy

[fading shard]

the only flaws are the maggots

[frank dove]

Why didn't he have kids with unn then

[fading shard]

?

[twin dragon]

city of tears and poggy thorax:

[plain ruin]

Unn isn’t a Pale Being, I guess?

[low oracle]

Firstly, say Higher Being not god. Secondly, you are just blatantly wrong.

[fading shard]

wasn't it implied that was because of hallownests starvation

in the city

the dream nail dialogue for them

talks more about them not liking it

and it tasting "wrong"

[twin dragon]

Idk man poggy thorax kinda says that he was meant to be fattened up and stuff

where would he get the fat from

[low oracle]

Result of the infection

[fading shard]

yeah but the corpses state it's wrong

and tastes wrong

[plain ruin]

They were eating a rancid egg there

[hard widget]

The white lady was his wife whom he loved and shared rule with as a conjoined soul. Unn was weakened and her followers maintained their worship of her in their own lands even as she weakened

Maybe if unn was abandoned by her kids for PK we’d have a green plague

[twin dragon]

either way city of tears was still split

apartheid

[spark valve]

that's about the rotten eggs which they're eating right next to a stocked kitchen. it's a rich people eat weird stuff joke

[twin dragon]

but ig the poor side wasnt too bad

[low oracle]

Unn was weakened completely unrelated.

[plain ruin]

He still existed alongside her, is what I’m saying

[spark valve]

that is not what that means

[hard widget]

No, god. God in the sense of an object of worship must just a superpowered being

[plain ruin]

And Unn’s decline was due to the Radiance as well iirc

[fading shard]

mask maker literally states that higher beings can't coexist at all dude

[plain ruin]

The Mosskin turned away from Unn and towards Radiance

[twin dragon]

Is it only race based

[fading shard]

he literally states that it's the nature of hornet and her ancient kind to always clash with one another when another is in the area

[twin dragon]

or ethnicity

[plain ruin]

They forsook the dream that birthed them

[fading shard]

the mosskin didn't turn away?

[spark valve]

yes

[fading shard]

we have lore tablets stating

they were seeking unns aid

[plain ruin]

They became infected and so they turned away

[fading shard]

infeciton isn't something one does on purpose

[twin dragon]

Tbf city of tears does look like it had castes

[fading shard]

that's like saying the hive turned away from vespa

[plain ruin]

They didn’t choose to turn away, but they still did turn away from Unn, so Unn became weakened because of that

That is what I’m saying

[hard widget]

Yeah this is why I don’t like the pale king, that’s my whole argument, higher beings especially pale kin will always beef for dominance with those around them, pale king was nicer about it but the end result is still beefing with gods over control of his kingdom, that’s my whole point

[plain ruin]

Pale King didn’t cause Unn’s weakening

[spark valve]

it had social classes based on wealth that's not the same thing at all

[fading shard]

HE DIDN"T

the nightmare heart literally calls him dear wyrm

[hard widget]

The pale king did the whole process better than everyone else but the end result is still his kingdom falling due to beefing with a god

[fading shard]

wdym

[fading shard]

he didn't beef with a god

the seer states the pale king just existed

[low oracle]

You are literally denying the definition within the game. Don't write in this channel if you can even understand what you're writing about.

[plain ruin]

The Moths didn’t have to abandon the Radiance

[fading shard]

yeah

[hard widget]

Dick

[twin dragon]

Idk the bugs didnt seem too prone to move up the ladder

[plain ruin]

Pale King was a diplomatic ruler

[spark valve]

I got bad news for you about wealth disparity

[fading shard]

nubbie we are pals right

[foggy stratus]

Hes kinda right tho.

[plain ruin]

He would’ve signed a treaty with the Moths if they remained true to the Radiance

[fading shard]

exactly

[hard widget]

I’m sorry you guys disagree with my interpretation of the pale king’s character

[fading shard]

well apparently it's now 9 people who have beefed with you about this

[hard widget]

And my ability to defend it

[twin dragon]

Yeah not a great argument that rarely ever happens

[fading shard]

nubbie you gotta understand in any society there will be a class divide

[hard widget]

Not this again

[fading shard]

what has to be done is that the poorer class get's it as good as possible

[fading shard]

did the poorer side of hallownest have it bad no they did not

[twin dragon]

i do brother

Im telling ye that's why it wasnt as ideal

[fading shard]

do you agree that the poor side of hallownest still got it relatively good

[fading shard]

ah then yeah agreed

[twin dragon]

Why keep mentioning this

[fading shard]

idk why I sent that

ignore it

kinda forgot I did

[hard widget]

Becuase they take disagreement over their takes in a lore that as a sign of liking or disliking them

[fading shard]

T_T

[fading shard]

no?

could you please not assume

what I'm thinking

[frank dove]

Phantom is hornet's dad btw

Do you dislike me now

[hard widget]

Phantom is hornet’s mom because I killed hornets mom in the first game

[hard widget]

[frank dove]

Adoption is not canon

[plain ruin]

It’s not even a good assumption, it was clearly a side-comment that was relevant to the word choice lmao

[low oracle]

WHAT??? No way!

[hard widget]

Yeah that was from a place of negativity I’m sorry

Uncalled for on my part genuinely

[frank dove]

Adoption is so contrary to their culture they are willing to stab needles into their heart to kill the child following them around

Except the child is inside them

And they just incapacitate it

[fading shard]

I mean I apologize for incidentally causing you to get jumped again

but this time by a whole different set of people

atp I wonder if this will happen a third time

with another different group of individuals or not

[hard widget]

Almost certainly

[fading shard]

the third time probably 15 people will have then jumped you about this ig

assuming that 6 new individuals would show up

[hard widget]

The third time I’ll get really into the foresight aspect of the guys character

Like it makes sense he’d be more diplomatic if he can see the best possible way to resolve a situation without violence

[frank dove]

All mods

[fading shard]

the freaking moderators are going to jump them next

[foggy stratus]

And Powdered.

[hard widget]

He doesn’t need violence if he can say the exact words or make the deal needed to convince someone to give him what he wants without struggle

[twin dragon]

Tbf the pale king was already someone with his own territory

being surrounded by enemies wouldnt be a good thing for him

[frank dove]

He is a alpha lone wolf

He goes wherever he wants

Whenever he wants

[hard widget]

If he was dead set on conquering hallownest by force he’d have done it in his wyrm body

[fading shard]

he could do so in his normal form as well yk

we literally get several power statements

about him

that put him away above most characters we know of

[low oracle]

He also wouldn't have given the Mantises weapons.

[foggy stratus]

Or he'd just go around forcing the others into submission via displays of soul magic.

[fading shard]

Like did you know that he's so radiant and powerful that he could cause people pain by looking at him

[plain ruin]

Wyrm form is his normal form, the Pale King we know is a reduced form he adopted to match the bugs of Hallownest

[frank dove]

Don't all but mantis lords use their claws

[plain ruin]

I think Bardoon says this

[fading shard]

poor phrasing on my part

[hard widget]

A good parallel to the pale king is warhammers Emperor of Mankind

[plain ruin]

Oh wait I see what you mean by normal

[fading shard]

lesser form

[plain ruin]

Normal as in common, not standard

Mb

[twin dragon]

big E is a douche

Pk had minimum comfort for his citizens

[fading shard]

also why do you bring up him not conquering those with strong wills or capable of fighting back he's literally way above any of the factions who didn't want to join him

and could have destroyed them if he so pleased

and there's a ton of evidence backing this up

like for example that his power was so grand that his afterglow is enough for one to use as a beacon to hallownest

or his insane soul capabilities

[twin dragon]

Yeah but he didnt want an uprising anywhere

[hard widget]

^^^

[low oracle]

They still have Sentinel "Nail-lances" in the background.

[low oracle]

Nope.

[foggy stratus]

The Mosskin have like at most 29 some odd knighst. PK could have just wiped them out and took those lands if he wished.

[fading shard]

I am saying that wretcheds statements make no sense

on that front

[frank dove]

Why do they never use them 😭

[twin dragon]

And yk how hbs feed off of worship?

[foggy stratus]

Only a few do so.

[whole holly]

what's the topic?

[twin dragon]

well he'd like to have some without the need of executing 3000 citizens per day

[twin dragon]

all of the known ones do

kinda

[low oracle]

Look at Deepnest and tell me this again.

[frank dove]

Pale king or something

No one knows

[low oracle]

The majority does.

[whole holly]

are we still talking about him?

[fading shard]

nubbie all I'm saying is that wretched statement didn't make sense

[frank dove]

No, ik what you mean, I meant why do we not get to fight any but mantis lords using them

[hard widget]

What I’m saying is that the strong were allowed to remain separate because they could push back if he tried to make them join his kingdom which is bad for maintaining a peaceful status-quo

[foggy stratus]

Nightmare Heart feeds off Nightmare Essence, Shade Lord doesnt need any, Lifeblood Beast also seemingly doesn't(assuming its a Higher Being), WL seems perfectly fine without any worship. Only Radiance concretely needs it.

[low oracle]

Why would any ruler want an uprising?

[frank dove]

I think

[plain ruin]

Are there any HBs that don’t live off of some kinda worship?

[foggy stratus]

Shade Lord.

[fading shard]

both of those contradict one another

[twin dragon]

Shade lord feeds off of the godseeker's attunement which is their way of worship i'd say

[frank dove]

People used to

[twin dragon]

we dont know abt lifeblood beast

[frank dove]

Joni

[plain ruin]

Guess that’s true

[frank dove]

Zylotol

[hard widget]

Think of the mantises like the citadel and nyleth. They made a peace with her for ease of travel through their lands. PK made peace with the warriors to secure his lands of attacks from Deepnest in exchange for letting the warriors be warriors for themselves

[twin dragon]

Not exactly "worship" but smt related to the mind

[whole holly]

the Knight(with Void Heart), Pale Beings(GMS only sustains her light not her life)

[foggy stratus]

Then what about Lord of Shades? Or The Knight before shedding its shell?

[hard widget]

He could conquer the mantises, but then he’d have to deal with deepnest’s raids himself

[foggy stratus]

They worshipped the Void, not any lord or power.

[hard widget]

With his own less powerful warriors that he has to pay for

[twin dragon]

tk before shedding isnt a hb i think

[fading shard]

he easily could have wiped them off the map if he wanted to yk

[foggy stratus]

It is.

[twin dragon]

Nope

tk isnt a hb

[frank dove]

I thought shade lord was essentially void unified

[twin dragon]

It is

[low oracle]

Speculative ones like Mr. Shrooms and Fayhorn aren't clear (though Fayhorn has creatures of similar form to itself on the Mountain). But really, only NKG, White Lady and the Shade Lord (+Twisted Child) don't need worship.

[hard widget]

Then why didn’t he wipe out Deepnest?

[twin dragon]

also likely feeding off of the voidheart of the void's unified will

[fading shard]

because he's peaceful that's why

[twin dragon]

unified until silksong anyways RAAAH

[plain ruin]

She still lives off of worship, though. She doesn’t need it to exist, but she refuses to exist without it

[gentle aspen]

why would he do that

[frank dove]

Well in this situation the void does take over minds too like everything else

[foggy stratus]

Nothing inherently changes after shedding its shell. After Void Heart, TK is a Higher Being.

[low oracle]

Cause he isn't the dictator people portray him as.

[gentle aspen]

sentient beings live there and it isn’t worth it

[plain ruin]

Pale Beings desire worship and devotion above almost everything

[hard widget]

To monopolize use of silk in hallownest

[spark valve]

why would he do that

[hard widget]

Instead he has to work with the weavers and the beasts for his plan

[twin dragon]

does it?

[low oracle]

Not before though, which is important to remember.

[gentle aspen]

the silk
that the sentient beings of deepnest produce

[frank dove]

Hey kind mod could you mute me until tuesday

[gentle aspen]

The silk he cannot produce

[frank dove]

Pls

[twin dragon]

He's still unified with the void

[fading shard]

you realize the weavers are only capable of producing silk right?

[twin dragon]

"unified"

whatever that means

[whole holly]

i though you wanted ones that need it to live, but all Higher Beings(especially non-Pale) need some ritual to sustain themselves

[fading shard]

Them and gms

[hard widget]

It’s just one reason why he would feasibly attack Deepnest

[gentle aspen]

No it isn’t

The reasoning made zero sense

[frank dove]

Wait I was being serious can you mute me until tuesday

[spark valve]

the fact that he could do something isn't a reason to do it

[hard widget]

^^^

[gentle aspen]

“Yeah he’s gonna wipe out deepnest to monopolize silk he doesn’t even have the ability to make”?????

[fading shard]

just because he can doesn't mean he's going to do so

[whole holly]

Pale King should kidnap and enslave GMS

[low oracle]

Sorry but that's the dumbest thing ever if you're a good ruler (e.g. not Conductors). Why give regular bugs these incredible and dangerous powers? He's a master of soul so it definitely isn't any limitation but the fact that only a bad ruler would attempt to abuse their subjects in that way.

[gentle aspen]

he’s not like a monster he isn’t gonna randomly slime people out

[woven pier]

whats the lore of eva?

[fading shard]

exactly

[hard widget]

They used spiders silk for paper, and he needed silk to weave runes for the seal of binding on the black egg. Silk also has healing properties

[spark valve]

weavers wanted to find a way to reproduce, eva's the closest they got but she's stuck in that tank not exactly suitable for a new generation

[frank dove]

Is asking not mutable

[whole holly]

Vessels, Xero

[low oracle]

Short:
Semi-Artificial Life constructed as a being to free the Weavers of GMS. Didn't work, left her in an iron prison due to fragility. Still has some of the wanted special powers though.

[gentle aspen]

please read what was said

[hard widget]

Anyways PK obviously tried to expand into Deepnest (failed tramway) and was stopped by the residents of that area who wanted nothi nothing to do with him

[fading shard]

xero literally was infected

nika wdym

[foggy stratus]

Xero jumped him and was infected. The Vessels were to save Hallownest and the other regions near it like the Hive and Deepnest.

[low oracle]

Vessels were an absolute emergency with no other options left. Xero literally tried killing him.

[fading shard]

Xero is the worst example

[gentle aspen]

not even residents
he was stopped by the obnoxious wildlife

[twin dragon]

xero was infected?

[frank dove]

Why are you ignoring me 😭

[spark valve]

was stopped by wild animals then later made a deal with the residents of the area who were happy to deal with him

[rare night]

He was trying to capture the weavers?

[whole holly]

sarcasm

[fading shard]

EXACTLY

[gentle aspen]

This wouldn’t be the place to ask, I don’t know why you want to be muted, and I don’t do that

[frank dove]

You want me to ping you in a different channel?

[gentle aspen]

note how not a single person read that as sarcasm because there was no indication it was

[foggy stratus]

No "" detected tho.

[hard widget]

No, he just wanted to extend the boundaries of hallownest in to deepnest’s territory

[fading shard]

tf you mean residents the residents are literally far away from the said location you're speaking of

[whole holly]

sorry my bad here: but i see lot of people make that argument

[hard widget]

Deepnest is only ruled from hidden village, the entirety of it is their domain

[whole holly]

i wanted to poke fun of it

[low oracle]

He describes the experience of thinking he's the good guy when in reality he's infected. (Elder Hu thinks the same for the Mantises). Unlike other Memory Ghosts he sees that he is dead though.

[hard widget]

Like how hallownest isn’t exclusively basin and city

[fading shard]

you realize most of it is just wilds for the beasts right

[rare night]

You know whats suprising to me

[twin dragon]

how do you know hes infected

[low oracle]

Deepnest as no rulers. The Sapient beings follow a Monarchy but the majority of creatures are only sentient.

[fading shard]

he mentions his dreams

[hard widget]

That doesn’t mean the spiders wanted them there

[fading shard]

and how he thought he was cutting down the infection in his DREAMS

[hard widget]

Herrah is explicitly stated as deepnest’s queen

[rare night]

He never once like thougth of conquering deepnest,and i always wonder what woulda happen if he did

[low oracle]

He says something along the lines of trying to beat the infection with power and then turning on the King.

[fading shard]

and the area for the failed tramway is literally filled with ONLY wild beasts

[rare night]

Like would things be very different lore wise?

[low oracle]

Second sentence? Deepnest has no single ruler, the Hidden Village does.

[twin dragon]

Uhh

[plain ruin]

Stop there! Those who try to leave this kingdom are cursed. Better to rest here, until time itself sleeps.
Hope and freedom. I thought that strength alone could grant me these things. In my dreams I would cut that plague with my nails, and then I turned my weapons upon the King.
When I awoke in this sacred place, I began to understand. Those who hope are already doomed.
Do you still hope, wanderer? Will you flee? Or will you raise your weapon and doom us both?

[twin dragon]

stalking devouts are scattered throughout

and yk

little weavers

[plain ruin]

Xero's First Encounter dialogue

[twin dragon]

also the weavers den being far away from the hidden village

safe to say deepnest was the entire territory+

most of it, at least

[hard widget]

The fungal lore tablet says the boundary between the two lands marks the border between their territory and that of the sire and Queen of Deepnest

[low oracle]

That doesn't mean the sentient creatures were also part of the rule. As this wouldn't make sense, that's like saying a crawlid followed the Pale King.

[foggy stratus]

Distant Villiage controlling all of Deepnest is like the Citadel claiming to control Far Fields.

[twin dragon]

Im not really saying that

[hard widget]

At its height I’m sure it did

[fading shard]

actually there's a very specific point in which deepnest architecture and just random terrain are shown

[hard widget]

We see the symbols of the citadel and benches built for pilgrims at the furthest edges of the far fields

[fading shard]

and the weavers and stalking devouts only show up in territory which is shown to be hidden vilage made

[low oracle]

Buut the other person seemingly is, since they insist the Weavers = Deepnest as a whole.

[hard widget]

Right before the Weavenest

[twin dragon]

ye but it's like not only hidden village and stuff

[fading shard]

never said it was

[hard widget]

I wish we got more clarification for weavers vs spiders

[fading shard]

I was simply saying the part that the failed tramway is in

is far away from any weaver or spider architecture

it's all random flora

and nature

[low oracle]

Exactly, where the floor isn't simple rocks and where recreations of Weaver masks are hung in the background.

[low oracle]

It's quite clear actually.
Weaver = Ascended Pharlid (+Herrah)
Spider = Any arachnid, though a common term of Weavers

[hard widget]

Think of it like a city and a countryside. The city limits aren’t the full extent of the city’s influence, it extends out quite a bit. The beasts of deepnest are ruled from the hidden village

[fading shard]

.......there's literal parts of crossroads which aren't governed by hallownest

[plain ruin]

Weavers are Spiders that can produce Silk. Spiders can't normally produce Silk

[fading shard]

and are just part of the wild

idk what you're talking about here mate

[low oracle]

The beasts can't have rulers because they aren't sapient. Does a fucking bear listen to the president of the country it is in?

[hard widget]

That’s because by the time we get there the kingdom has fully collapsed and has become reclaimed. Deepnest only recently fell

[fading shard]

this for example

aren't owned by anybody

[low oracle]

Correction, Weavers can produce silk from soul, not the regular stuff. Annoyingly there isn't any distinction in the name.

[fading shard]

that's not true what

all the parts hallownest governed are still in tact

idk what you're talking about

[hard widget]

They don’t fucking pay taxes or anything they just live and fuck and die within that jurisdiction

[fading shard]

And has become "reclaimed" no it hasn't?

the only parts that are shown to have not been owned by hallownest are ones that are shown to have no traces of hallownest architecture

[hard widget]

Are you being deadass

[limpid summit]

By recently Deepnest probably wasn’t targeted as hard by Rad until second wave

[hard widget]

Everybody with any authority in hallownest is dead, in the dream realm, or dung defender

Except eternal emelita

Hallownest has been a dead kingdom for an age

[low oracle]

Hallownest is the Kingdom (location), including ALL areas. Technically a Kingdom isn't equal to a ruler (Pharloom ≠ Citadel) so there are two types of Hallownest you can talk about.

[hard widget]

Hornet says as much as does the white lady

[fading shard]

my guy you do realize I wasn't talking it being actively governed by the goverment

but that the parts which were hallownest territory are stil lshown to have stayed that way

[patent wing]

very imprtant question

[low oracle]

Yes? Exactly? This Garpede won't communicate with Herrah.

[fading shard]

like ancient basin

[hard widget]

Yeah the land of hallownest is full of life the kingdom of hallownest is crumbled, with the remainder in stasis, under the infection after slow slow decline

[fading shard]

crossrodas

[patent wing]

how thin might hornet be?

[fading shard]

city of tears

the city of tears is still hallownest territory

[foggy stratus]

Shes 27 pounds soaking wet.

[fading shard]

so is the crossroads

and then there are parts

[patent wing]

ok thx

[gentle aspen]

we dunno

[fading shard]

which are showcased to have no hallownest architecture which are part of the wilds T_T

Like come on now wretched

[gentle aspen]

horf made that up

[fading shard]

it's shown in ame

[foggy stratus]

Nuh uh.

[hard widget]

Oh that’s what you meant, misunderstood wha you said

Thought you were talking about lands that were rewilded

Like queens gardens or parts of the ducts

[low oracle]

Everything is except for:
-hive
-Kingdoms edge (somewhat at least)
-Howling Cliffs
-Deepnest
-Greenpath has an agreement so it's a self-governed part of Hallownest
-Fungal Wastes also has similar agreements

[fading shard]

queens gardens and the waterways are still part of hallownest though?

we see literal left over architecture

indicating that they were

where as there are parts of it

showcased to not be

[hard widget]

Yeah they’re just being reclaimed by nature cuz everyone died and nobody lives there

[fading shard]

Yeah I know

[hard widget]

We’re arguing in circles I think

[hard widget]

This is true

[wintry flame]

they gotta retcon act 3 in SoS

[hard widget]

I’d be shocked if we didn’t get another ending

[low oracle]

No? If Pharloom bay is more distant the void wouldn't affect anything there.

[wintry flame]

nono i'm saying it's the weakest part of the game and it should get replaced or something

[twin dragon]

there are ways to fix it

i believe

[fading shard]

greenpath isn't a part of hallownest though

even on the map

[wintry flame]

my first fix would be getting rid of the abyss

[hard widget]

I love the abyss tbh

[twin dragon]

I think the void is fine

[hard widget]

It was my favorite area in the first game vibes wise

[twin dragon]

Like it has its narrative weight in the story

[wintry flame]

i didn't like the void and it's effect on the map and the gameplay and the whatever

[hard widget]

It’s annoying at first but once you get max nail it’s not that bad at all

[wintry flame]

it makes the map feel more dead

it's a feelings thing

[hard widget]

That’s intentional though isn’t it

[wintry flame]

act3 kinda pisses on the whole vibrance the game had going on and it never gets resolved

[wintry flame]

doesn't make it good

[twin dragon]

but it is

the ambience is good

[hard widget]

The whole point of act 3 is everything you’re trying to save is under threat from a calamity of your making so you have to commit to saving it from a fate worse than silk

[twin dragon]

theres just a lack of substance in act 3

[hard widget]

^^

[wintry flame]

this is a subjective thing

[hard widget]

Act 3 would feel way better if it was more populated

[wintry flame]

i personally really disliked the shift

[low oracle]

Pilgrims path, same for Fungal Wastes and Howling Cliffs. Again, it's self-governed so it is part of it while still being mostly independant.

[wintry flame]

but i understand why someone could like it

[hard widget]

I feel like they just glued the void cocoons up everywhere and called it a day

[wintry flame]

yeah

[fading shard]

it's stated to be roads

it's still mosskin territory

[wintry flame]

also the final boss is really underwhelming

[fading shard]

they literally are said to be independant

[wintry flame]

conceptually

[low oracle]

?
There's literally a part in Greenpath that has a Hallownest station in it, which is how you argumented previously.

[sinful nimbus]

Lost Lace made me cry

[fading shard]

greenpath is owned by the mosskin

[low oracle]

Just wait for Pantheons and it'll be good imo.

[sinful nimbus]

And when I first saw the void I literally did the soyjak face

[wintry flame]

good tears or bad tears

[fading shard]

for her bad

[low oracle]

What part of Self-governed do you not understand?

[wintry flame]

idec about the difficulty

[sinful nimbus]

Good tears I burst out crying when I saw The Knight

[twin dragon]

nah she's larping

[wintry flame]

my issue is that it's lace 3

[twin dragon]

she's a hater

[fading shard]

Oh wait really?

[low oracle]

Not what I mean, I hope for an alternate "grander" bossfight.

[spark valve]

not even the best lace

[wintry flame]

exactly

lace 2 is where she peaked imo

[twin dragon]

ll mogs any other boss in the series except karm so im ok with it

honestly

[hard widget]

The mosskin govern themselves outside the road, but it’s still a part of the kingdom

[wintry flame]

i still struggled with her evenafter maxing out act 2

[hard widget]

They jsut have self rule

[low oracle]

Also recovering stuff like the sands of Karak, Verdania, and all that.

[sinful nimbus]

welcome back lace

[twin dragon]

💔

it is factual

[wintry flame]

it's just because she's lace not because she's lost lace

[spark valve]

Lace again again but they took all the stuff about lace 2 that made her fun (aggressive melee duelist with a lot of emphasis on movement and positioning) and replaced it with teleport and projectile spam on a boss who spends like a third of the fight not even in the arena because somebody thought making the void waves both a long ass scripted phase transition plus a normal attack she can choose to do a good idea

[wintry flame]

thank you tammo

[twin dragon]

The void waves are def the worst attack but its not like its terrible

it lasts like 4 seconds

[wintry flame]

that's bad

that's really bad

[hard widget]

Yeah the void waves are for cinema

[spark valve]

it's a lot longer than that

[plain ruin]

Just capitalize it

[wintry flame]

fast paced combat my ass

[twin dragon]

Plus she's also very dynamic she has like 2 pages worth of mixups

[hard widget]

I like them because it gives me a chance to breathe and compose myself

[wintry flame]

this is because she's lace not lost lace

[twin dragon]

nope

[distant mason]

I just realised something
In hollow knight, you descend, so you can ascend in the end
In silksong, you ascend, just to descend in the end

[twin dragon]

her void attacks give her mixups

actually

[distant mason]

I'm stupid for not realised this earlier

Realising*

[low oracle]

true

[spark valve]

the teleport spam makes the fight infinitely less dynamic

[wintry flame]

it just feels like i'm chasing her

lace 2 i actually have to interact withthe boss and think about her positioning

[hard widget]

I think lost lace teleport spam is half the reason cogflies get the glaze they get

[low oracle]

If you do so you are playing her wrong and making it harder for yourself.

[fading shard]

yeah

[wintry flame]

maybe but then what

[plain ruin]

Chasing Lost Lace will get you "telefragged"

[wintry flame]

it's a boss that throws herself at you as opposed to a boss that you have to dynamically interact with

[spark valve]

game design

[plain ruin]

Just means you gotta play a little reactively

Palestag's similar

[spark valve]

and palestag sucks ass

[wintry flame]

i know what you're trying to say and i agree but like

[twin dragon]

She always does something after teleporting

and its usually near you

[wintry flame]

don't use palestag as an example

[hard widget]

More like voltstag by the time I’m done

[wintry flame]

palestag bottom 3 maybe-bosses in the game

[hard widget]

God I hate that boss

[plain ruin]

I honestly like Palestag, kinda wish the lore about it was clearer though

But then again, it's a creature of myth

Those are always obscure

[twin dragon]

no you dont

[whole holly]

i love Palestag, they are best Pale Being, i felt sad when i found out Pale Beings are only about devotion or destruction! can't believe hornet would say that not knowing Palestag's heart

[wintry flame]

crust king khann act 3 fight against a player who's actually playing the game feels like this

[hard widget]

Palestag is a poor matchup for my preferred crest and play style

[wintry flame]

they did not tweak him from his original position

[whole holly]

i mean i use clawline and with hunter crest it is easier

[wintry flame]

he was a pre last judge boss beforehand and he plays like one at the very end of the game

[covert night]

what does that mean

[plain ruin]

I genuinely do, but it's not for lore reasons and I'm almost completely alone in this opinion so I'm just leaving it at that

[hard widget]

The reaper side swing is rlly bad for getting dps with in that fight

[wintry flame]

you can, quite literally, fight khann as your second to last boss in the whole game and he's poopoo easy

[twin dragon]

khann is fun

[hard widget]

Which makes sense cuz the gauntlet

[twin dragon]

he's a lil too simple but wtv

[wintry flame]

lore moments and aura let me cook

[whole holly]

i used reaper, but i use Hunter and Wanderer now, i had trouble with Reaper as well

[wintry flame]

even karm had a pseudo gauntlet and she's tough as nails and, debateably, the best boss in the game

[spark valve]

you can skip almost all of coral tower if khann kills you it's really not an excuse

[wintry flame]

i know they are not compareable but coral tower just feels like tc's way of not wasting the gorge designs

and tbh i'm glad they at least tried that because gorge is probably the most hyped area

could be biased

[twin dragon]

Yeah it is

[covert night]

whole idea of coral tower is ridiculous to me

[twin dragon]

js give us explorable old pharloom bro

[wintry flame]

funny how, visually speaking, the 4 old pharloom areas are also the best ones

idk why i phrased myself that way fml

and gameplay wise they're also pretty good too

verdania kinda sucks but it was probably cooked up in 30 seconds as a little bonus there is nOTHING there

[covert night]

addition of verdania feels like a last second decision

[wintry flame]

yeah

[covert night]

truthnuke

[wintry flame]

"gloomsac entry hater" is so funny

like that one specifically

[twin dragon]

"do i almost feel fear"

[wintry flame]

corny ass

[covert night]

i didn't really care about any of the bad writing until this one

it's the funniest shit i've ever read in the game

[wintry flame]

what do you consider other instances of ba dwriting

i0m curious

[twin dragon]

slabflies entries are bad

[twin dragon]

the retcons

some of them at least

[spark valve]

But always, child, I remain a daughter of Hallownest. And the void below all things, that darkness I will fear no longer...

[wintry flame]

waiter please another 10000000 billion more eugenics discussions

[twin dragon]

not that bad honestly

[spark valve]

it's really bad

[wintry flame]

this is our silksong

[wintry flame]

it's sooooo bad

holdon

[twin dragon]

Cringy ass namedrop

but tbf god forbid a namedrop happens at all

[wintry flame]

daughter of hallownest is horrendous as a namedrop

[spark valve]

I mean it just wants you to accept that hornet had some completely absent character growth about overcoming fear which just... was never a thing

[wintry flame]

exhibit b about why the void suddenly appearing in act 3 suuuuuuuuucks

[covert night]

not a fan of shaman retcons
slabfly entries
gloomsac entry
dialogue before last dive is kinda bad especially the "daugher of hallownest" part, which exists because they obviously wanted to include the word "hallownest"
gloomsac entry
vespa red memory dialogue is nothingburger, but that one exists for daughter of three queens confirmation i guess
uhh there are probably more but i need to think
gloomsac entry

[twin dragon]

a bunch of dialogues and context would fix it

[twin dragon]

Vespa dialogue is fine

[hard widget]

The whole fear thing from the gloomsac entry is weird but I interpreted it as her being afraid of the idea of the void producing life rather then her being afraid of the gloomsac

[twin dragon]

like it does its job

[hard widget]

Or not the void producing life but that creatures can grow and thrive that close to a lifeless nothing

[covert night]

i think it's the weakest part in red memory, it's kinda unrelated compared to other dialogues but it's ok i guess

[wintry flame]

red memory is weak in general

[hard widget]

Yeah the Herrah and white lady dialogue being what it is it makes Vespa’s dialogue much weaker

[covert night]

but she puts it in a very corny way 😭

like the rest of the entry is fine

[twin dragon]

I think its a good emotional character moment although some dialogues are finnicky

[hard widget]

Your pfp rocks btw

[covert night]

i liked it in general it was a good moment imo

[twin dragon]

i just realize

its hornet

with the bloodborne doll attire

baller pfp

[covert night]

best fan service in the game exists in red memory (hallownest elevator)

[covert night]

yea

[wintry flame]

true

[covert night]

actually ill give a credit to the artist on my bio, that's missing

[whole holly]

people are freaking out about this

[fading shard]

do you believe this is actually true

[whole holly]

it doesn't matter, i don't really have conclusion

[craggy smelt]

when a single emote can cause so much madness

[fading shard]

it's not void life though

it's life that adopted to live near the void T_T

there's a difference

[fading shard]

is it really bad?

[fading shard]

there aren't that many of tehm

other then lifeblood

and little weavers

[edgy nebula]

herrah weaver and shamans too

[fading shard]

okay yes that......actually hold on herrah being a weaver

was something that's basically been retconned to existence isnce 2019

but yeah that too

[whole holly]

shaman can be explained by timespan, cultures can change

[covert night]

nothing is told to us, there is no build up prior to act 3 and the shamans act like hornet should've known that they use void

[fading shard]

it'd be fine

if not for the fact they act hornet should know their kind is interested in such

like it wouldn't be a retcon or strange if these specific shamans had an interest in the void

after all the snail shamans are mysterious

[whole holly]

i mean shamans show interest right after knight obtains Abyss Shriek and generally spell upgrades, it is possible void heart and endings acted as some sort of catalyst event for their fixation

[fading shard]

but the way silksong handled things is perticular

[whole holly]

i still don't get why hornet would know? both weaver and pale king experimented with void but is knight learning shamans spells notable to shamans or?

[foggy fractal]

🗣️ 🗣️

[whole holly]

Andy always drops bars!

[foggy fractal]

I'm in the same boat tbf
I've reserved myself from having any expectations, good or bad, from TC

[twin dragon]

little weavers are an unconfirmed tbf

[foggy stratus]

Little Weavers are native spiders that the Weavers experimented on to try and make pseudo-Weavers. At least thats my head canon.

[sinful nimbus]

what would a confirmed retcon look like

[solar tapir]

wow, thats cool

Now this is my head canon too

[foggy stratus]

[twin dragon]

herrah

[twin dragon]

Or convergent evolution

there was never enough info on them

[sinful nimbus]

how is that more confirmed than little weavers

[twin dragon]

Wasnt herrah stated directly to be a beast

[sinful nimbus]

Not really a species though its just her title

[foggy stratus]

Beast is more so a type of creature so it seems. Like mammals and lizards ig.

[twin dragon]

Tbf idk how the weavers were categorized in hk

they didnt get much spotlight either

Everbloom being pale family's only way of repelling the void is a retcon

[sinful nimbus]

idc red memory made me cry

[foggy fractal]

maybe dlcs will fix everything

save us sea of sorrow!

[sinful nimbus]

me stumbling upon Plasmified Lomm in Act 3 😢

[tawdry flare]

maybe they can no man’s sky it

[foggy fractal]

W TEAM CHERRY

instead of the haunting its lifeblood everywhere

and guess what

[tawdry flare]

Bluethreaded enemies…

[foggy fractal]

you fight the lifeblood creature (who is now confirmed female and a higher being)

as the final boss.

[sinful nimbus]

When I kill the Lifeblood Higher Being (Rad's sister) it will be personal 😈

[foggy fractal]

W TEAM CHERRYYYYYYYYY

[foggy stratus]

That's just WL being WL. I personally think its just her being super hyperbolic about it.

[sinful nimbus]

not a retcon just uh bad writing

white lady's dialogue is crazy bro

[foggy fractal]

I lowkey turned my brain off in act 3 to forget how bad it is

can you tell me why its crazy

[sinful nimbus]

I paid attention to act 3 just to feel something again 😔 🖤

[sinful nimbus]

exposition slop where it reveals white lady is a bad parent (but is portrayed as good) and then she starts yapping about the first light n stuff

[foggy stratus]

The Abyss Lighthouse.

[foggy fractal]

mfw just any light source could repel the void 😭 why didn't hornet just buy a really bright flashlight

[sinful nimbus]

she is swimming down through it

man crazy how the everbloom lasts like 30 seconds total

allat glaze and GMS lasted longer 💔

it also doesn't behave consistently but ETV isn't canon so who cares

[fading shard]

since when was embrace the void not canon, it's implied to be a viable ending to silksong

wrong reply sorry nubbie

was trying to reply to what star said

[twin dragon]

Well its a retcon that stems from bad writing

[twin dragon]

son

[sinful nimbus]

Slandering ETV is the reason why this heart still beats ‼️

[foggy fractal]

that

[twin dragon]

when does etv get vaporized and threwn into e33

[foggy fractal]

at least they didn't make dnm not canon

can you imagine that

[tawdry flare]

nine sols*

[sinful nimbus]

Silksong fan jelly of #BestNarrative smh

[twin dragon]

more like

4.5 sols

[sinful nimbus]

Silksong not nominated for the category btw

[twin dragon]

because 4.5 of them are actual characters

[twin dragon]

there was a category for that?

[tawdry flare]

I wonder why…

[foggy fractal]

psh lmao

[covert night]

fork found in kitchen

[fading shard]

Okay I thought about it and silksong is still a solid 8/10 the game is good in most aspects the main issue is the lack of sauce in act 3 and some lore issues but it's still god for the most part and we should appreciate it

[twin dragon]

is there a 10/10 game out there

[tawdry flare]

yup

SteamWorld Dig 2

[fading shard]

like there is still a lot of love poured into silksong and it should be apprecited whilst also very outwardly criticized for it's flaws (gameplay and lore wise)

[twin dragon]

thats not ultrakill

[covert night]

portal 2

[twin dragon]

yet to play it

[fading shard]

undertales a really damn good game

[twin dragon]

nowhere near a 10

[sinful nimbus]

Ultrakill and Portal 2 are up there

[tawdry flare]

combat sucks so it can’t be 10/10

[fading shard]

a lot of individuals put it in top 10, there's also nine sols and stardew valley

[twin dragon]

nine sols is NOT grazing the 10

theres no 10/10 game aaaaah

[covert night]

ns is 8-8.5, exploration is eh

[sinful nimbus]

There's a 10/10 game with barely any flaws but I'm not allowed to talk about it

[tawdry flare]

SteamWorld Dig 2

[fading shard]

do you place undertale a 9/10 nubbie?

[twin dragon]

the generic story-based ue5 game?

[sinful nimbus]

What no

[tawdry flare]

Marathon?

[twin dragon]

Shit i didnt specify which one!

[sinful nimbus]

E33 is a 10/10 too but it has a fair amount of flaws

[fading shard]

star unless it's the coffin of ashley and layley I tihnk it's fine if you speak about it

[twin dragon]

nah cant imagine

[sinful nimbus]

Wrong

[twin dragon]

is it memories in orbit

[sinful nimbus]

no tf I talk about that all the time

[twin dragon]

cuz mio aint a 10

Is it a monster hunter game

[fading shard]

what about terraria?

[sinful nimbus]

No but MHRise is also a 10/10

[twin dragon]

no.

[twin dragon]

aight the door's open for you

[sinful nimbus]

why would you not talk about mh

[fading shard]

there's also papers please, stardew valley both are really well made

[twin dragon]

skong's an 8.5-9 imo

[sinful nimbus]

Anyway Ultrakill is a very comfy 10/10

[twin dragon]

Truth nuker

[tawdry flare]

stardew valley is cozyslop

[twin dragon]

What can you NOT talk about

[sinful nimbus]

Real ones know

[twin dragon]

Wtv you say twin

[sinful nimbus]

You wouldn't get it anyway its too advanced

[fading shard]

zip I will not stand for stardew valley getting called slop especially when it's creator is as goated as they are

[twin dragon]

💔 elitism

[tawdry flare]

sorry twin it’s cozyslop

[fading shard]

and yes ultrakill is a 10/10

[tawdry flare]

is it echo point nova

[covert night]

yea i'd say it's 9

hk is 9 too

[fading shard]

tf does cozyslop even mean, what does it even do wrong

[twin dragon]

if act 3 wasn't slop sk would've been a 9

[twin dragon]

imo 8. something

[covert night]

everything is slop if you slander it correctly

[sinful nimbus]

I love echo point nova but that game isn't anywhere close to a 10

[fading shard]

it has great and well in depth characters like undertale, got a ton of rpg and dungeon elements which are fleshed out and a huge narrative story

[tawdry flare]

it’s the vibes. Stardew Valley is cozyslop. cozygem would be Lunacid

[twin dragon]

what game

[sinful nimbus]

The humble linear act 1:

[twin dragon]

Linearity is fine

[fading shard]

o-o If that's how you feel

[twin dragon]

there's 2 routes at the end of it

[sinful nimbus]

a whopping 2 🗣️

[tawdry flare]

No sorry this is objective

[fading shard]

talking about stardew valley nubbie

[twin dragon]

Ye and that's enough kinda

stardew valley has characters?

[foggy fractal]

a whopping 2/10 is what silksong is bro

[sinful nimbus]

MIO and HK had far more paths to take

[twin dragon]

hk

crossroads

into greenpath

into fungal

[fading shard]

zip how is that objective, your personal taste doesn't amount to it being objective especially when your complaint is it's "vibes"

[sinful nimbus]

wrong

Crossroads into Greenpath is about where it stops being linear

Walljump is where the game cracks wide open

[twin dragon]

where else could you go i forgot icl

[sinful nimbus]

fog canyon

[twin dragon]

Yeah thats fungal

you need to go through fungal

crossroads-greenpath-fungal

[sinful nimbus]

you can also go into crystal peak and resting grounds if you are feeling adventurous

[twin dragon]

Fog canyon is barely an area at that point

[twin dragon]

Usually one leads to the other

so that's also a thing

[tawdry flare]

that’s a lot of ways to go already

Compared to Silksong’s Two

[twin dragon]

Idgaf skong is overall more fun

i dont mind

Skong's 2 routes aren't just a single area too yk

[fading shard]

silksong is fun yeah, the tools are well made

[sinful nimbus]

Anyway Silksong is basically a hallway for Act 1 then Act 2 is fine until the Quest Grinding and then Act 3 is back to handholding (until the hearts but those aren't exploration so they don't count)

[twin dragon]

there's also wormways skips but people gloss over it and stuff

and access to deep docks 2

[fading shard]

just wish lifeblood wasn't done the way it did and whatever the christ act 3 was

[twin dragon]

a fun hallway

[sinful nimbus]

POPTLC funner

[twin dragon]

that splits into several regions

[twin dragon]

ubislop

[fading shard]

like I love the old hearts karmelita and khan are great alongside verdania and green prince but like....

[sinful nimbus]

If I was interested in combat over map design I have better games to play

[twin dragon]

nothingburgermaxxing

[twin dragon]

A shame that skong mogs hk in both

real shame it is

[tawdry flare]

What if THEY were INTEGRATED NATURALLY into the WORLD rather than TIME TRAVEL

[sinful nimbus]

3️⃣

[twin dragon]

[foggy fractal]

I think everyone agrees they would've been better if they weren't related to mcguffins needed for the everbloom and shoehorned into act 3

[fading shard]

I do agree andy yes

[twin dragon]

idk how they would fit the current setting but act 3 didnt do them justice

[sinful nimbus]

You can't fr claim SS has better map design when the last segment of the game has literally no exploration involved and the requirements to get to true ending isn't even tied to metroidvania progression 💔

[twin dragon]

shhhh

Act 3 doesnt even have new areas we cant be talking about act 3

the abyss is a tiny bit better ig but like

[foggy fractal]

what about nine sols map design

[tawdry flare]

Playing Silksong makes me want to play Metroid Dread

[twin dragon]

nothing

[twin dragon]

0

[sinful nimbus]

isn't dread mid

play POPTLC instead

[tawdry flare]

Nah it’s pretty good

[fading shard]

hollow knights map design is better and the areas feel better whilst silksong has better combat variety

[foggy fractal]

mid > silksong

[tawdry flare]

Admittedly I haven’t played any other Metroid games but

[twin dragon]

Nah disagree

lwk silksong's areas impressed me

[fading shard]

nine sols is so good man

[twin dragon]

So many actual bangers even for a supposedly "linear" act

yk i felt like my abilities were more involved when playing

[fading shard]

I understand why you'd disagree nubbie :p and it's completely fiar

[foggy stratus]

Hollow Knight=DOOM
Silksong =DOOM Eternal/ULTRAKILL imo.

-# When I say DOOM I mean the OG DOOM game

[craggy smelt]

so does that mean the third hollow knight game will be a weird prequel grafted onto someone's largely forgettable dark fantasy setting?

[fading shard]

people keep asking for a quirrel prequel and there's a 5% chance of that actually happening which is barely anything but still something

[foggy stratus]

The third game is going to be Castle Crashers-esq.

[craggy smelt]

i would be down for a game set in this world, but a different genre

[foggy stratus]

Sci-fi set in a Hollow Knight style world.

[covert night]

mid

[covert night]

you can fight xero as your first boss

[foggy stratus]

I dont think there's anything stopping you from fighting Watcher Knights as your first boss.

[covert night]

stardew has a lot of annoying stuff that needs to be fixed with quality of life mods

[foggy stratus]

Sounds like a skill issue on your part tbh.

[fading shard]

???? Since when

besides stardew valley is continuesly getting free updates out of the pure good will of concerned ape who LISTENS to the communities feedback

[covert night]

like not being able to pause in multiplayer is an issue
i would also download lookup anything mod because i don't wanna guess what npcs love and hate

[covert night]

yea it's an amazing game no doubt

[covert night]

that's crazy

how tho

[foggy stratus]

You dont need double jump to access the room, you can get into Fungal Wastes without dash and I'm sure there's some bs movement to get into City of Tears without dash.

[fading shard]

you need the city slab from false knight

the only ways of gong to the city of tears is either using a tram station through deepnest, to ancient basin and then climbing up, going through the sealed gates, through kingdoms edge to city of tears or the elevators

[whole holly]

hey abhiker

i have question? do you use Opera GX? do you know that it is not great browser because of it's practices? it has issues of sort

[hard widget]

Yeah opera is a scam

[foggy stratus]

Well jokes on you, it IS POSSIBLE! They do it in low% NMG runs.

[whole holly]

I use Firefox personally

[knotty prism]

verdania

and if sub areas count

volt nest

[foggy stratus]

Voltnest is Act 2.

[knotty prism]

still probably intended to be acessed in act 3

even if you can theoretically acess it in act 2

[foggy stratus]

Its not that difficult to access. And Voltvyrm is very easy.

Its an Act 2 location.

[knotty prism]

no

i think its an act 3 location

[foggy stratus]

It just isnt.

[knotty prism]

thats probably the intended way

[knotty prism]

and if we count the memory bosses, coral tower

[foggy stratus]

Just clawline and double jump.

If it was intended to be an Act 3 location you wouldn't be able to very easily access it in Act 2.

[foggy stratus]

In Act 2 you can speak with Nuu in there while she looks at Voltvyrm corpses. In Act 3 she does not. Its an Act 2 area.

[knotty prism]

oh shit

i did not know that

thats cool

[kindred ingot]

what's the topic here?

oh nvm it's nothing

[regal herald]

true although the entrance does become more visually clear in act 3

[mortal forge]

wait

genuine question

would sealed siblings be the best ending?

because

i know it's sad and all

but would you rather a bland, shell of a kingdom

and the kingdom being abandoned completely and taken over by the void

or the kingdom just..there? no infection, no hybrids, no vessels

just hallownest

[gentle aspen]

No

[gentle aspen]

That doesn’t happen

[mortal forge]

i meant all the endings vs sealed siblings

[mortal forge]

oh uh

[gentle aspen]

Yeah

[mortal forge]

spoilers but

[gentle aspen]

That doesn’t in any ending

no bro

That doesn’t happen in embrace the void

at all

[crystal marsh]

topic?

[mortal forge]

did you give delicate flower to godseeker?

[mortal forge]

is sealed siblings the best ending

[gentle aspen]

man I hate team cherry

[crystal marsh]

absolutely not

[calm roost]

?

[mortal forge]

storywise i mean

[gentle aspen]

“Yeah let’s just make this ending randomly ominous for zero good reason”

[crystal marsh]

the most narratively complete ending is DNM

[gentle aspen]

That isn’t what they asked

[gentle aspen]

and regardless, in no ending does void ever “take over hallownest”
That’s just not a thing that happens
what you see in embrace the void is the mass of void leaving godseeker which causes her to leak the substance, same as dream no more

The knight is not a malevolent entity and has full control over the void with void heart

[mortal forge]

uhhh

im too stupid for this

funneh hollow knight meme go brr

WAIT FUCK

IM IN SK LORE NOT HK LORE

[regal herald]

well they planned to follow it up but that got scrapped when silksong became a full game

[foggy fractal]

did they?

[regal herald]

well that's what I assume

cause of the way they framed it, especially with the ending of hornet confronting THK
they were clearly setting up something

but I'm glad silksong ended up doing its own thing

[crystal marsh]

they didn't plan to follow up that ending specifically

[regal herald]

well we can't really know for sure

I'm just guessing based on the framing of that ending

[lapis creek]

don't we have a rough timeline of silksong's development

if there were maps of pharloom in 2018 they knew silksong would do its own thing

to the extent that it did

[regal herald]

True
Well etv does carry over to silksong by some extent by following up on plot points such as the everblooming, it's possible that could've been the only purpose for the ending, just to set up stuff for the hornet campaign so it didn't come out of nowhere

[craggy smelt]

it's reasonable enough - the plans for the DLC morphed into Silksong
Hornet saving an entire kingdom from the Void might have been the general idea they started with, with Godseeker's ending setting that up
it would have been easy enough to add some reason for the Void to be going crazy in Hallownest
"something something the Godseekers ritual made TK too crazy"

[lapis creek]

in godseeker mode the knight seems about the same

idrk how they would show a change in the knight's mental state when you play as it, but they didn't

[craggy smelt]

if there were ever plans to make them antagonistic, TC didn't go with it, given how TK is in SS

[foggy stratus]

They realized it wouldn't be possible to beat TK in any form of fight so last minute pivoted to Silksong, hence why Act 3 is so rushed

[lapis creek]

sure but if they had gone with it, what is the explanation for godseeker mode

why is the knight effectively the same person engaging in the same hobbies in the perfectly intact godhome

[craggy smelt]

they might have changed it precisely because it wouldn't make much sense in light of what they'd already included
(Godseeker mode is pretty weird in any case, since it has the same ending)

[craggy smelt]

i do hope we never fight TK in the future
Hornet must never win

[lapis creek]

i think godmaster, as is, gives us enough indication that the knight will continue to mind its own business after the death of the radiance

[lapis creek]

this is also possible

[foggy stratus]

It'd have to be a duel style fight where TK purposefully goes easy on her to the point where irs fair. Or itd have to be a fake version of TK.

[lapis creek]

welcome back nosk

[foggy stratus]

Plasmified Lost Nosk.

[craggy smelt]

steel masters clone them and unleash a Steel Knight army

[foggy stratus]

They're like cortosis platted B1 battle Droids tho. What's the opposite of a glass canon? A steel blow pipe?

[craggy smelt]

you just throw a ball bearing

[paper mantle]

We forgot Mr. Mushroom

[twilit furnace]

We love mr mushroom