sk-lore

[twin dragon]

seeing hornet in hk after ss breaks immersion

[sinful nimbus]

Why does Greymoor not rain void tendrils

Immersion broken

[sinful nimbus]

Lowk true

And the snail shamans

[twin dragon]

they're diff shamans

[sinful nimbus]

son

I mean you can kinda compartmentalize shamans

[twin dragon]

seeing HOLLOW KNIGHT: after playing hollow knight breaks immersion

[sinful nimbus]

Why do they all share a mound in SS

[cedar geyser]

Guys what you're thinking about that sea of sorrow is land where godsekeer come from?

[twin dragon]

they don't till they need to

[sinful nimbus]

Shamans all having their own mounds where they cultivate the powers of the land and hone their own signature spell was cool asf

Ig they're in hiding in Silksong

[whole holly]

i mean... i want to be hesitant about it, but i assume it is in some proximity to it

[sinful nimbus]

But ruined chapel doesn't really have much

[sinful nimbus]

Where's Caretaker and Bell Hermit's mound

[cedar geyser]

In trailer you can see thunder and rain

[sinful nimbus]

They should've existed in areas with more resonance or whatever

[twin dragon]

they're lwk hiding in shit

[sinful nimbus]

Well Bellhart might count

[twin dragon]

likely because citadel and stuff

[whole holly]

yea, it will be interesting to know more

[twin dragon]

life if we had bellhart lore

life if we had bellways lore

we can always hope

[spark valve]

could've tied in with old heart stuff but no

[sinful nimbus]

Bellways prob carry up song to the Citadel

[cedar geyser]

And it is possible that godsekeer didn't find gms because she was sleeping

[twin dragon]

would be neat if they restored what the citadel's been throwing away

[sinful nimbus]

Bellhart was established by pilgrims who were too scared to do Blasted Steps but wanted to feel useful or something idr

[twin dragon]

like yk, the lowlands living on the citadel's waste

[sinful nimbus]

Those bugs, cowering in their gleaming bells. Grnk. They claim a common calling, to serve the pilgrims as they make their path upwards.

Such a crucial role they award themselves, surely worthy of praise!
A sweet lie, of course. They, like their predecessors, are simply too weak and fearful to venture any farther. A settlement born from indolence.

[twin dragon]

What i said wouldn't really contradict anything

[whole holly]

we don't have timeline of any kind

[sinful nimbus]

Grnk. To free them was no favour. But the gathering of power... In that goal, we may understand each other some.
The foreshadowing is kinda cool icl

[twin dragon]

too bad we cant read

[whole holly]

i do like Sea of Sorrows to have lore distanced from Lifeblood, i also don't like name Plasmium

[sinful nimbus]

Shaman reveal grew on me

They just uh need to remove the void stuff and maybe rewrite Act 3 dialogue (shaman hivemind)

[cedar geyser]

I just hope we see godsekeer

[sinful nimbus]

Plasmium is dorky but Plasmified goes hard

[cedar geyser]

Or theirs masks

[whole holly]

yea, but Afflicted sounds better, Lifeblood Affliction

[spark valve]

godseeker

[sinful nimbus]

https://tenor.com/view/monster-hunter-wilds-lagiacrus-purple-lagiacrus-monster-hunter-tri-capcom-gif-11267414661207796700

[twin dragon]

Void couldve been neat

[whole holly]

i think we will see their corpses

[sinful nimbus]

No narrative reason to bring back void

Lost all its mysterious aura in the process too

[twin dragon]

kill god

or show consequences chaos yap yap

if only it played a bigger part of the story

[sinful nimbus]

Void as just generic god killer 9000 isn't that interesting

How else could we hope to trap one of your pale kin? Or see her consumed with such insatiable efficiency?

[whole holly]

alternatives it can be named Dropsy, Stasis, Blue Blight or something similar

[sinful nimbus]

Why does Bell Hermit never say slave in his Act 3 dialogue

Character assassination

[twin dragon]

But it flowing out of control and basically making everything 5x as fucked is pretty cool

[whole holly]

because he is all about revolution and power redistribution?

[sinful nimbus]

I didn't find it particularly cool

[twin dragon]

It was never anything more than pk's own toy was it

[sinful nimbus]

It was representative of his regrets and TK's trauma which was tuff lowk cuz once you accept it it stops being hostile towards you

[twin dragon]

I tried accepting it and it tore off my arm idk mate

part of pk's regrets also came from messing with it

[foggy stratus]

They need to redesign the way the Shamans look imo.

[sinful nimbus]

naked

[foggy stratus]

Malnourished.

[sinful nimbus]

Idm Bell Hermit's design

He's the goat as always

[foggy stratus]

Bellhermit is malformed.

"Hey Ari"
"Yeah William?"
"You know the old Shaman designs? Yeah, fuck those."

[whole holly]

i do like design of Grand Mother Silk, i would like it better if it was less humanoid and more abstract

[sinful nimbus]

Old shaman designs are cool but I think its good that they're avoiding retreading old ground there

[twin dragon]

what bugs me about gms

is the fact that her abdomen is so

round

and short

[sinful nimbus]

TRUE

I love the hair and humanoid face but it looks so goofy 💔

[twin dragon]

"humanoid face"

[sinful nimbus]

Well and arms n such

[twin dragon]

⬛

[limpid summit]

I don’t understand some of her design elements but they bring it together

[foggy stratus]

Caretaker is just a smaller version of the old one. Seeker Shaman also kinda looks like the older ones. Chapel Maiden is entirely fucked up.

[twin dragon]

i wish awakened gms has the 8 arms visible

[sinful nimbus]

Seeker Shaman pmo

[twin dragon]

incomparable tuffness

[sinful nimbus]

They actually just ripped off the OG snail shamans design and signature spell

With a dash of Soul Master lore

[foggy stratus]

At least make the Shamans' bodies fit their shells. Only one who even kinda comes close to Bell Hermit whose the only none malnourished one.

[twin dragon]

groal isnt very similar to SM

[limpid summit]

How is Bell Hermit supposed to spiral focus

[twin dragon]

all of the soul bs was just for himself

[sinful nimbus]

Sure but stealing a shamans spell is p similar and Hornet even alludes to SM in his journal entry

[limpid summit]

Hornet while Soul Master was killing thousands

[twin dragon]

You could point at really most fantasy settings and point to smt older, then say its a ripoff

[foggy stratus]

Hornet wasn't a police officer or some shit.

[twin dragon]

She was a very racist one for the vessels

lwk even needing to get her ass kicked to not let them die this is how far corruption has spread in hallownest

[foggy stratus]

Yeah but for Groal he not only bloats up similar to Soul Master but also steals a Shaman's spell.

[sinful nimbus]

Yeah but its different when you're ripping off your own work in the same universe 😭

[twin dragon]

pk should invest into his civil protection more

[twin dragon]

God forbid there's a callback

[limpid summit]

I wonder why the shaman spell doesn’t appear after we kill Groal

[twin dragon]

its likely not a spell but just crude soul usage

groal is js tossing shit

[whole holly]

why didn't she react? though

[whole holly]

same reason we don't get spell from dead snail shaman, hornet has no reason to get shaman spell

[twin dragon]

calbacks in the game are mostly suddle and well introduced

[whole holly]

i agree, Nyleth is Isma/Monomon callback, Karmelita is Vespa/Herrah callback and Khann is weird Soul Tyrant callback because he is a tyrant but he also ruled half of Pharloom so kind of Pale King callback too, Khann is most subtle

[sinful nimbus]

Silklight

Now that's a good subtle and well introduced callback

[whole holly]

Silklight is found in Servitors, Weavelight seems similar technology

[half night]

Hey

[fading shard]

star I'm actually gonna say it I don't mind void being brought back

I don't think the way it was brought back was good

but it coming back makes sense

the whole idea of it being in the entirety of the world makes sense

Okay I was very mixed when I saw lifeblood again

[whole holly]

me too

[fading shard]

I thought it was cool lin act 1 and 2

but then act 3 happened

Listened I always believed lifeblood was supposed to be a healing plant that had negative side affects

and I think team cherry always intended it in some way

to be more then just a healing plant

not saying silksong was what they were planning back in hk

[whole holly]

yea, i mean there is no reason for Joni not to be Plasmified, but TC said Joni might be dead, maybe they are similar state to Zylotol???

[fading shard]

but I always believed lifeblood had some hidden dark side

even if small

and like the lifeblood core and seeing it in godhome, and the whole heretic thing and jonis blessing made me be a advocate back in like 2020 that lifeblood was a potentially parasitic in someway plant

act 3 however was just infection 2.0

[fading shard]

I'm just saying wouldn't it have been better if lifeblood was just a plant that used it's peoples consumers corpses to spread

[whole holly]

that would still put question mark on Joni, Abyss Lifeblood Creature

[fading shard]

Like I thought it was a far more interesting idea if lifeblood was just a plant that gave health benefits but at the draw back of being addicted to it

[fading shard]

I always thought the lifeblood creature was the origin of lifeblood

well personally headcannoned

I even had the idea that lifeblood was THE BLOOD of the void creature

[whole holly]

lifeblood is infection but stages are reversed, infection first affects mind then body, lifeblood does that in opposite order

[fading shard]

that's not interesting though

I don't need another infection

the haunting was cool because while it was also a "infection" it did it's own thing

[whole holly]

let's see what TC does with it

[fading shard]

to feel seperate

[fading shard]

Just have it be a really addictive substance

with health benefits that then uses their consumers corpse as a means of spreading

[whole holly]

Joni is not really consumed though, but it can be assumed that she gets special treatment from Lifeblood Beast

[whole holly]

lifeblood flowers literally fly like butterflies in her repose

[fading shard]

consumers as in people who drank it

[sinful nimbus]

idrm it being in the entire world but fleshing out worldbuilding doesn't necessarily make a compelling narrative

Which Act 3 is not in every single way

[paper mantle]

Groal = Soul Master

[whole holly]

are you assuming joni didn't drink it? her last wish was her vital fluids to be replaced with lifeblood(probably)

[paper mantle]

I hate Groal of the Andes

[whole holly]

that's also true

[whole holly]

assuming that's how charm was created, it is suspicious there are three lifeblood related charms, to me at least , like who created lifeblood heart

[paper mantle]

[whole holly]

she was deemed heretic, she is blue child joni which seems to have religious connotations

[twin dragon]

lwk should've been a larger part of the story

that's my main issue

its just there

[twin dragon]

The narrative itself is compelling it just breaks canon

[fading shard]

what are you specifically talking aobut

[twin dragon]

Themes presented ig

[sinful nimbus]

Another infection destroying the kingdom that's solved by a random magic flower (that has held no relevance up to this point) that can only be found by destroying 3 old hearts( that are completely thematically unrelated to both the void and the flower (and also behave inconsistently), followed by a cutscene where White Lady just exposition dumps for a bit while also saying she abused Hornet, and then a dive to a random shoehorned in final Lace fight is not compelling I'm sorry

[twin dragon]

and if you want me to mention canon breaks well

snail shamans

white lady dialogue

maybe voidheart

[sinful nimbus]

Worth noting none of this has much relevance to Act 1 and 2 aside from the hearts which are clearly uh not well implemented

[twin dragon]

Well hornet up to that point has been facing the past of the land of her ancestors, now she's being forced to act as the protector of it again and wash away its past to save whats left

[fading shard]

white ladies dialogue is the worst offender

though I guess?? one could justify it

by saying since the pale kings light is compared to the everblooms

that when the white lady said that the everbloom is the only defence they had against the void

they meant it's type of light

[twin dragon]

Wl otw to throw a bombshell and mean that her husband's glowing ass wasnt enough apparently

[sinful nimbus]

Snared Silk is when she goes against her ancestors mistakes and its a fine moment narratively ignoring literally everything else that follows

[fading shard]

but his literal light is compared to the everblooms

it's literally said that they are simillar

[sinful nimbus]

But Act 3 doesn't do a whole lot of "washing away" its just Snared Silk

[twin dragon]

I meant purging the hearts

[fading shard]

So maybe she just meant that the everblooms TYPE of light

is the only way they have to defend against the void

i am very much so coping nubbie but like

[sinful nimbus]

Those are not a past that needs washing away tf

[fading shard]

what other explanation is there, when the pale kings light is said to be simillar to the first lights

[fading shard]

star what do you think

[twin dragon]

They're the past of the kingdom she needs to take away to face what's currently threatening it

[whole holly]

potency/intensity or paleness

[twin dragon]

im not saying in like the bad sense

[fading shard]

aura

[sinful nimbus]

GMS and the Weavers and Conductors are the wrongdoers the hearts are the powers of Pharloom before she came along (although Khann isn't a good guy)

[maiden meteor]

tbh even weak Hallownest version of Everbloom still can exorcise Shade Lord

[whole holly]

it could be both, ofc

[sinful nimbus]

So its like meaningless

[fading shard]

Emilitia when seeing the everbloom immiedietely mentioned it's pure aura and then the pale kings

[sinful nimbus]

There's nothing thematically there

[fading shard]

making it clear that the two are similar enough

for one to make comparisons

though she was being biased by saying the pale kings is better

[whole holly]

tyrant doesn't technically/inherently mean ruler who abuses their power

[fading shard]

it is WORTH noting

[twin dragon]

It is meaningful as they were seemingly the ones that had the chance to come back, the citadel's in ruins by that time

[sinful nimbus]

son

[fading shard]

that the two can be compared

just saying

[twin dragon]

The white lady's dialogue is mentioning some first light bullshit

[whole holly]

they are both pale light, she is just shamelessly biased

[twin dragon]

idk how to interpret that

[whole holly]

me neither

[sinful nimbus]

Far Fields had a chance to bounce back but idk why sacrificing it is supposed to be that deep

[fading shard]

my point isn't to say she isn't biased my point is that the fact she noticed the everblooms light being a similar pure aura to the kings

is worth noting

[sinful nimbus]

It would be really funny if Hornet killed Far Fields even without sacrificing it right haha

Bonus points for it behaving inconsistently with Verdania

[twin dragon]

she's giving the last of the kingdom's past to give the kingdom a chance to florish anew instead of letting it crumble

[twin dragon]

Can't argue against that yeah

[whole holly]

tyrant is simply an unconstitutional ruler, it most likely refers to them being warrior-kingdom

[fading shard]

I mean tbf initial silksong didn't have that

team cherry just felt the need to add the implication of verdania regrowing

because of us killing the green prince

after silksongs initial release

probably to make it seem less bad

[twin dragon]

Tbf maybe the implication's different

[sinful nimbus]

Eh sure

[twin dragon]

maybe the next ecosystem is already taking its place

instead of it being the same bs

[sinful nimbus]

Why did they use clovers to indicate a new ecosystem

And why does an ecosystem immediately comes back Hornet's dialogue implies that process takes a lot of time

[twin dragon]

Maybe they imply that the hearts are just another part of the ecosystem instead of being the most defining part of it

as yk, some ecosystems exist just fine without one

[twin dragon]

Exposition dump

[maiden meteor]

Don’t we also get implications of moss grotto heart

[spark valve]

hornet's an idiot

[twin dragon]

Yeah it's cooking

will be done by 2028

[sinful nimbus]

Know, in time, these caves may see opportunity to regrow, flourish even, though that rebirth is itself a task enormous... longer than a lifetime, many lifetimes.
For that task to succeed, it will fall to bugs like you to sow the first seeds.
WEAK AURA

It is not our part to master all the tides of the world, but to do what is in us for the succour of those years wherein we are set, uprooting the evil in the fields that we know, so that those who live after may have clean earth to till. What weather they shall have is not ours to rule.
STRONG AURA

[maiden meteor]

Mossberry quest will continue until morale improves

[spark valve]

ok but this is hydrogen bomb vs coughing baby

[twin dragon]

Is ts another dialogue from some other media or is it a rewritten hornet dialogue

[sinful nimbus]

LOTR

[maiden meteor]

Hornet still got that PK/Weaver nasty blood in her

[twin dragon]

goes hard ngl but tells mostly the same

[sinful nimbus]

They sustain it

No matter how you slice it its just inconsistent with the Gilly dialogue

[maiden meteor]

From Moss Druid dialogue it seems that heart can be born from nature

Although it seems like in other cases hearts act like power sources

Like Shellwood is born completely from Nyleth iirc

Although Verdania likely existed long before Princes?

[twin dragon]

Yeah it doesn't really mean that the ecosystem can't start anew

[twin dragon]

every old hearts inheritor is the last, implying there were many like them before

[sinful nimbus]

A new ecosystem can take its place

[whole holly]

it seems like cycle , it is designed as such

[trail wagon]

lore contradictions

[twin dragon]

Is there anything that says otherwise in hk

[sinful nimbus]

Its kinda awkward with Hornet's fighting style not seeming very bee-related and the hive being an isolationist tribe but its not technically impossible

Vespa is kinda lame though bro says nothing

[twin dragon]

And my personal headcannon and likely many other people's that they called hornet hornet is neat

[limpid summit]

This would have been between first and second wave right

Who is she talking about

Probably more steel glaze

[sinful nimbus]

Its a general statement

She's a powerful demigod people are gonna jump her for one reason or another sometime down the road

[limpid summit]

True

[whole holly]

demigod??

[sinful nimbus]

Her father is the pale king who is a god

[whole holly]

i thought you were talking about vespa

[fading shard]

I am ready for the steel massters to turn out to be omnipotent universal creating beings

that are actually the creators of the multivese

[whole holly]

i expect them to be more of "Eternal Kingdom" dystopia

[foggy stratus]

The only group who managed an eternal kingdom but its built off of violently killing/imprisoning/enslaving any slight threat to them and their rule.

[whole holly]

yeah, i think they will be some kind of imperialism/totalitarian society

[foggy stratus]

They'd handle the Radiance by genociding the Moths and anyone else who shows minute signs of infection. It may not work, but its what I imagine they'd do.

[twin dragon]

No they just develop dimension crossing technology in 3 hours and then enslave the radiance

[whole holly]

compression

[foggy stratus]

Compressed Radiance.

[foggy stratus]

They'd get speed blitzed since Radiance moves at light speed

[paper mantle]

Ooh, right

[twin dragon]

what

where did you get this from

she takes tk's hits like a good girl

[foggy stratus]

Shes made of light and as such moves at light speed

-# I'm not being serious here

[twin dragon]

And for that they'd likely develop some light condensing bullshit

because ofc the would

how do we beat john steel

[foggy stratus]

Call The Knight.

[twin dragon]

hes getting enslaved

[foggy stratus]

No.

[whole holly]

do you think Joni is special to Lifeblood Beast?

[foggy stratus]

That's Joni's dog.

[fading shard]

they'd just do some crazy dream realm stuff

and kill the radiance/ compress her

[whole holly]

Lifeblood Beast Tamer

[fading shard]

they've done so to a bunch of other higher beings

like zi said

and hornet knows they mean business

so they'd probably just kill all the moths as punishment

[foggy stratus]

Ain't no way.

[fading shard]

and then screw over the radiance

[whole holly]

if you turn out to be wrong, i will never let you live it down

[twin dragon]

steel masters otw to develop some bullshit tech to cross the fourth wall and kill us

[fading shard]

I turn out to be wrong nick and that's not what they meant by recall the fate of those higher

I will personally change my nick in this server

as abhiker gaming the idiot

[foggy stratus]

They're bugs. I will stomp them out like an ant!

[fading shard]

I promise nick

[twin dragon]

Actually this implies those of higher will

not just higher beings

as higher being in that context doesnt really fit

[whole holly]

okay, abhiker, i had theories that have been right as well as wrong, there is nothing wrong with that

[fading shard]

No I meant like I will properly acknowledge myself being wrong

[fading shard]

I think it's pretty clearly meant to be about higher beings

[twin dragon]

Those of higher mind

[foggy stratus]

If it just says "those of higher will" ut probably just means bug simialr to the Mantises.

[foggy stratus]

Or this ig.

[twin dragon]

She calls hornet "higher"

[whole holly]

sometimes people are obnoxiously insistent on their headcanons and interpretations but honestly, that's just human experience

[twin dragon]

hornet isnt really a hb

[fading shard]

"Recall, the fate of those who defy... Even you higher... Especially you higher..."

[near jasper]

Whats the topic rn

[fading shard]

she is?

she's half higher being

gms is classified as one in her journal entry

and her dad is a higher being

[whole holly]

it might be higher caste, guys, which means rulers, which most higher beings are...

[foggy stratus]

Higher Being as far as we're aware isnt an inheritable trait.

[fading shard]

the knight is literally said to be born of god and void

and the mask maker outright talks about hornets ancient higher being kind

[twin dragon]

Yeah but demigods arent gods

[foggy stratus]

Being born of something doesn't make you that.

The son of the president doesn't become president.

[fading shard]

Mask maker talks to her as if she's like gms

or her dad

so idk what you're talking about

[foggy stratus]

A pale creature. Which she is. But not a Higher Being or Pale Being.

[fading shard]

he talks about her ancient kind

and talks about higher beings multiple times

Look at the mask maker dialogue

[foggy stratus]

Which could either be Weavers or Pale Beings.

[fading shard]

it's not about weavers

we know this because he seperately tlaks about the weavers too

[fading shard]

also he calls hornet of higher caste

and ancient being

and then states that mortals did try to rebel

[foggy stratus]

Hornet is old as shit.

[fading shard]

and say that about the weavers

"Aye. But isn't it always such for those snared to serve your higher caste?"

[paper mantle]

Given the amount of lifeblood in that area, it's probably

[fading shard]

"Our mortal mob did once act some defiance, unawares maybe, but successful in part, goaded towards it by Weavers' will'n all."

he literally talks about hornet and her HIGHER BEING side

[whole holly]

do you think they have similar relationship as unn and mosskin, or radiance and mothkin

[fading shard]

not her weaver side

not her pale side

he actively talks about the higher beings

and he groups her up with them

[foggy stratus]

Does Hornet ever refer to herself as a Higher Being.

[fading shard]

others do so

[foggy stratus]

But does she. Because others arent as aware of her as she is.

And she's part Weaver which id assume most normal, less aware bugs would consider Higher Beings. Or at least divine.

[fading shard]

she does state that she isn't like her god kind

[fading shard]

the mask maker literally seperates the weavers as mortals

so idk what you're talking about

same goes for care taker

[foggy stratus]

Which could also refer to either her Pale or Weaver half.

[fading shard]

mask maker only talks about the higher beings horf

look at the dialogue

[foggy stratus]

Look man I'm trying to play some Silksong I can't exactly sift through dialogue to find it rn.

[fading shard]

"Aye. But isn't it always such for those snared to serve your higher caste?
Our mortal mob did once act some defiance, unawares maybe, but successful in part, goaded towards it by Weavers' will'n all."

[twin dragon]

Yeah hornet's part god

[fading shard]

"hh. Know you distort the order of things, Old One. It is a rare want of your caste to serve us mortal bugs.
Hornet: I am not my kin, Maker. I have seen enough pain born of their dominion. As much as I may, I choose to stand apart."

[whole holly]

higher caste and higher beings have similar but not same meaning

[twin dragon]

and has their properties but doesnt mean shes quite on the same level as them

[radiant scarab]

Is there anything interesting about silksong's mask maker?

[craggy smelt]

everything

(he's pretty neat)

[fading shard]

the mask maker is literally talking about the higher beings nika

come on

It's so clear

[radiant scarab]

But like does he have any cool lore or anything

[fading shard]

"Ha! I'm not surprised! It's always the way, aye? Your ancient kind, vying for dominion, and us mortal bugs squashed unseen underneath."

[sinful nimbus]

Hornet's character is about kinda being pulled towards her mortal side and her higher being side

[radiant scarab]

Imo hollow knight's mask maker was really interesting but silksong's not so much

[fading shard]

He literally talks about gms and hornets confrontation

[craggy smelt]

yeah, they're talking about it right now

[sinful nimbus]

So she's not really either

[whole holly]

i mean sure, Mask Maker is talking about immortals and rulers but there are nuances

[fading shard]

he's talking about gods

nika

[whole holly]

yea

[fading shard]

he's talking about gms

[sinful nimbus]

Zi referring to her as a higher being wouldn't be out of place but its also not the only interpretation

[fading shard]

it's quite literaly about higher beings nika

[whole holly]

i didn't say otherwise, abhiker, gms is immortal ruler

[twin dragon]

Zi also refers to hornet mostly as "pale it"

[whole holly]

i quite literally know, abhiker

[whole holly]

i feel like Pale it, is bad thing to refer to someone, is it a slur?

[twin dragon]

No that's just how zi identifies hornet

[foggy stratus]

Ancient kind can refer to Pale Beings. Hornet mentions that Pale Beings only allow for subjugation or death iirc.

[whole holly]

they hate Pale Being AND Void-users, but feel neutral towards knight

[foggy stratus]

TK is scary. They're scared.

[whole holly]

or it is a slur, she can say being, there is nothing preventing her

[fading shard]

jiji literally states their masters would be impressed

not that they would be scared

[foggy stratus]

Not necessarily mutually exclusive.

[twin dragon]

It is also not out of place that zi refers to intellectual bugs with "higher"

as yk, zi herself is simple minded

[foggy stratus]

"Damn thats impressive. Now stay the hell away from me you freak."

[twin dragon]

the simple thought of defying orders made her question it profoundly

[fading shard]

may I ask why are people so averted by the idea of the masters being higher being killers

[whole holly]

Lore Tablet calls reader higher being, higher being means above all others, is it acknowledging us the player are higher beings???

[twin dragon]

No it is def possible

that's just how i think it is

and yk, seeing how powerful hbs are it might be too far-fetched that they have hbs at their service

[kindred ingot]

what's the topic here?

[whole holly]

i am not averted, it is a fun interpretation, they feel like controlling society

[twin dragon]

They dont just kill them those apparent hbs are serving them

unquestionably

that's a bit far fetched to me

[fading shard]

compression could very well just be brainwashing

like altering their minds and personalities

with only scraps remaining

and honestly that's a lot more interesting

then infection 2.0

[twin dragon]

No yeah it likely is that

like

zi

doesnt think

zi acts

[kindred ingot]

?

[fading shard]

masters sashimi

[kindred ingot]

oh like the Steel Soul ones?

[twin dragon]

This is why i think higher to her are of a higher will

instead of hb

[twin dragon]

yeah yk the ones we know nothing about

those

[paper mantle]

Potencial probably
Joni: the Lifeblood Profet

[kindred ingot]

currently reading Zi's dialogue to see if I have an opinion on this

[paper mantle]

Zi: bug... Higher

[whole holly]

true

[fading shard]

the reason I am so hard set by the higher being enslavers/killers interpretation is because it would make the masters be genuinely opposing

[twin dragon]

No it is possible

[kindred ingot]

hm. This is interesting

[twin dragon]

i just dont think it fits the context

especially when zi is already set on calling hornet pale it

[paper mantle]

Zi?

[kindred ingot]

especially considering Zi called Hornet "Bug... Higher..." three sentences earlier

[whole holly]

i think hornet is beast bug and god in part, unlike knight who is said to be not a bug, nor beast nor god

[fading shard]

because we've had them being built up for TWO games

[foggy stratus]

That isnt Hornet.

[paper mantle]

Sorry

[kindred ingot]

ok so the Masters "tame, bind" Higher Beings (or specifically Pale Beings)

[whole holly]

who do you think will be main character that will be protagonist against them???

[twin dragon]

Nope it doesnt imply that

it implies that resistance is heavily opposed

[kindred ingot]

ok but why tho

[twin dragon]

of any kind

[paper mantle]

I think that Hornet, being a demigoddess, is recognized by the other insects as having a connection with her and a HB

[twin dragon]

She's referring to the bugs as "higher" of higher will as yk, thinking of disobeying orders to her is unfathomable

[fading shard]

and again they are said to be more complete and different like the knight

[paper mantle]

That's why Zi and Mask Maker refer to her that way

[whole holly]

she is beast and bug too

[fading shard]

with void heart specifically

[paper mantle]

Demigod: beast and god

[whole holly]

yeah

[paper mantle]

Born to Beast and God

You will absorb the cursed silk that moves their bodies

You are the Hunter

[kindred ingot]

Hornet is half-Weaver (bug) half-Wyrm (god)

[paper mantle]

You are the Gendered Child

[paper mantle]

Exactly

[kindred ingot]

altho Weaver could be considered Beast

but I think they're Bug

[whole holly]

they are kind of both, even GMS is referred as beast

They see your beauty, so frail and fine,

They see your peace, woven of faith and toil,

They forget your heart, bound in slumber and servitude,

When you wake they shall see your truth,

A beast's nature bare to all.

• From "Pharloom's Folly" by the Conductor Romino

we don't see conductor romino...

[paper mantle]

"Pale It... You would reject the role? Are you not tamed, bound, by Masters?... You would know... obedience is essential.
Recall, the fate of those who defy... Even you higher... Especially you higher..."
—Zi

What do you think?

This proves that Hornet is a HB

?

[foggy stratus]

I think it refers to bugs of higher thought. More intelligent beings who could understand the concept of not obeying and what it might bring, both good and bad.

[maiden meteor]

Hornet is probably like 3/4 HB

[foggy stratus]

1/2

[paper mantle]

[maiden meteor]

Although it could be that Weavers were only really bestowed ability to create/control silk and none of other HB attributes

[edgy nebula]

shes half, weavers arent hbs

[foggy stratus]

I'm also going to point out that Zi seems to think Hornet works under the Masters. Given that it says "Recall the fate of those who defy" implying Zi to some degree thinks Hornet works for the Masters.

While yes they also say "Are you not tamed, bound, by Masters?...? being 'tamed, bound' could refer to being Compressed like Zi which could restrict higher thought.

[maiden meteor]

It could also refer to concept of “defying fate” tbf

Which seems to be a motif esp in first game

[foggy stratus]

Yeah, "nothing lasts eternal" is basically shouted at you throughout the first game then gently scolded at you in the second.

[twin dragon]

imo it is a pretty broad concept in sk

since yk, the citadel meant to be everlasting

[foggy stratus]

Yeah but its not as blatant as it was in Hollow Knight imo. Only a few places mention the Citadel being eternal while Hallownest in the first few lore tablets is called the Eternal Kingdom.

[twin dragon]

what

[maiden meteor]

Kinda funny that in HK it’s higher being who tries to defy fate and in SK it’s lowly beasts

[twin dragon]

the citadel's entire thing is that it was supposed to be eternal

Also the old hearts perpetuating the cycle of their lands

coming to an end to save what's left of pharloom

[foggy stratus]

Well yeah, I think its just more heavy handed in Hollow Knight.

[twin dragon]

I mean breaking cycles is also a large theme in silksong

[whole holly]

for better or for worse

[paper mantle]

Have sense

[foggy stratus]

Yes, I have sense. Why you ask?

[paper mantle]

You're welcome, I just agree with what you said.

[foggy stratus]

You said it very weirdly.

[paper mantle]

I'm using a translator

[foggy stratus]

Ooh.

[paper mantle]

[swift needle]

For better

Ignore my name

[foggy stratus]

[trail wagon]

All descriptions of the Hive we've ever had were saying the Hive was sealed away from the civilization of Hallownest and was quite hostile towards it and didn't want to be a part of it. The fact that the QUEEN of the nation not wanting anything to do with the kingdom trains the DAUGHTER of the KING of that kingdom is very awkward to me

It would make sense if the Hive was located close to Deepnest where it was initially supposed to be

Like sure, some people say "what if the Hive had good relationships wiht Deepnest and Herrah specifically?"

Not saying it's impossible, but it doesn't really connect with any depictions of the Hive we've previously had and contradicts with the ones that were there

Plus something I've said like 10 times on this server, the fact they forged Hornet's needle implies there is at least some weapon manufacturing industry in the Hive which we don't even see anything pointing to

[foggy stratus]

I mean someone had to forget Hive Knight's weapons.

I dont like Three Queens either, to be clear.

[paper mantle]

Why not?

[sinful nimbus]

hivesteel 😝

[foggy stratus]

It just doesnt make sense and feels like a massive unnecessary retcon.

[sinful nimbus]

renowned for its metalwork 🤪

lowk its not too late to redesign the hive and make these guys biomechanical with hivesteel

and make the hive super industrial themed

it'd make the SS dialogue make sense and it would be tuff

[craggy smelt]

👀

turns out hornet and hive knight had the same tricks after all

[edgy nebula]

like 5 years later and these animations are still insane

WHY do the bees do this

[paper mantle]

Herrah, Vespa, White Lady... All of them are queens

[exotic pendant]

industry bee hives lowkey makes a lot of sense ngl

[craggy smelt]

one day - the Hive's 3rd visual pass

I wonder if the City of Steel will be more industrial, akin to the Citadel, or if they'll go for more of a 'liquid/living metal' fantasy style

[grave stream]

i honestly think both

[exotic pendant]

hornet and vespa's connection was a thing before silksong, but I wonder where that came from?

is it really just that TC comment from reddit

[grave stream]

she was born by herrah, trained by vespa, raised by white lady i believe
As of evidence i will research

We know the hivesteel needle is a thing and red memory (obviously) but i'm looking for stuff before silksong

[exotic pendant]

yeah, the entire community sorta knew about it before silksong

so I'm like "what, where did that come from"

[foggy stratus]

Pretty much everything from the first game points against it is the issue.

Pretty much just whatever TC had said about Three Queens theory to make it known.

[grave stream]

by the way what are the two voids TK's resilience is born from

i know abyss void, but what's the other

[foggy stratus]

The actual Void within it and the metaphorical Void of outside Hallownest.

[grave stream]

wow cool

[exotic pendant]

is there lore to why there's a weaver nest down in the abyss

do they also want some void research

[foggy stratus]

Research into the Void prolly.

Or into surveillance devices.

Maybe both.

[grave stream]

i checked Hornet dialogue in HK and i found nothing about Three Queens, but i have a question
is

Ghost of Hallownest, you possess the strength to enact an end of your choosing. Would you supplant our birth-cursed sibling, or would you transcend it?

more evidence that THK was never pure

"Birth-Cursed"

or does that mean something else

i am very bad at deciphering

[foggy stratus]

Could also just mean that it was basically fucked from the start.

[grave stream]

that's what i mean

[foggy stratus]

Cursed to have a shitty existence.

[grave stream]

it wasn't a pure/good vessel

[foggy stratus]

I dont mean that. I mean from the beginning, be it its birth or its selection as THK, it was doomed to forever live a life of misery.

[grave stream]

oh yeah

that works too

[foggy stratus]

Also hindsight.

Hornet has the full picture of THK's life.

[grave stream]

really?

i never really listened to the whole foresight/hindsight conversation

what is it

[foggy stratus]

Could be a similar boat as "Pale Wyrm, what good to forsee a demise unavoidable" Dreamnail dialogue from big ass mushroom in fungal core.

[grave stream]

i know it's like seeing the future or whatever, is it part of PK's blood/abilities

[foggy stratus]

Foresight is being able to see the future. Hindsight is something everyone has. Its just being able to recall the past.

[grave stream]

oh ok

[foggy stratus]

Someone give me a random enemy.

[spark valve]

slubberlug

[foggy stratus]

"Vile, annoying creature. It will latch onto you and not let go without loosing one or two of its underformed fangs. Living their lives in bile infested waters gives them a horrid, rotten stench and taste."-The Hunter

[trail wagon]

true, but I feel like it's still kinda shallow

[trail wagon]

To me it always looked like the Hive Knight was a very special guy

[craggy smelt]

is this like 'what if the Hunter were in Pharloom?'

ngl that'd be a fun read

[foggy stratus]

Pretty much yeah.

[foggy stratus]

I have a Google doc of most of the entries I've done so far.

I'd be more than glad to give you access to it.

[craggy smelt]

post it here for everyone

let us rend it to shreds

[foggy stratus]

https://docs.google.com/document/d/15izRAEz5sa19JzGqAX4EdDR47LdF7RviYfDIxz2Q3q8/edit?usp=sharing

[craggy smelt]

delightful

[foggy stratus]

So far my favorite ones are probably Underworker and Driznarga.

"Its face is a drill..."

[craggy smelt]

I like the entries where he mentions different tastes, like the ground-up lavalug
I think a Hunter's Journal with quotes entirely about how the different creatures can be prepared in meals would be fun
if maybe a bit dark with regards to the sapient ones...

now i'm hungry

[foggy stratus]

He doesnt really understand cooking according to my Lugoli entry. He knows how to season it, yeah. But not cook it. He eats his steaks blue rare at most.

[craggy smelt]

if only Lugoli had a hunter's journal, that would be fun to read

[foggy stratus]

Its just a cook book on how best to prepare each creature of Pharloom.

[foggy stratus]

I just remembered. My actually favorite one is the Gahlia entry.

"A strange defense mechanism. It bears a false mask within its petals. I wonder how such a being could develop this... Perhaps over countless generations a trait similar to this slowly became more pronounced. Hmm. No, that's foolish."-The Hunter

[craggy smelt]

Hunter a confirmed creationist

not necessarily a wrong position in holloworld, ofc

[foggy stratus]

Less creationist and more so he isnt an intellectual.

And lives in a world with bs magic.

[craggy smelt]

evolution does exist but maybe it was actually some god just making it

I do think you've captured the tone of Hunter, with comments like 'I've never felt the impulse to fight and defend another' or 'I don't understand why you'd enslave another creature when you can just kill them.'

he is who he is

[twin dragon]

I mean hive knight does have a weapon and vespa apparently does aswell

[twin dragon]

It is also entirely possible that a deal was made to keep hornet with the hive, to then leave it unbothered

[craggy smelt]

the deal might also have been more with Deepnest than Hallownest - Hornet was conceived as a gift to Herrah after all

if the scenes in Red Memory are anything to go by as a timeline, she was raised in Deepnest, trained in the Hive, and then later went to White Palace

(and also, being isolationist doesn't mean you never interact with the outside world - it just means you don't want to)

[echo vapor]

So thats why you asked for a random enemy a while ago

Cool stuff dude

Would love to see him comment on more bosses like Bell Beast or Trobbio

The Hunter would definitely hate Trobbio 😭

[craggy smelt]

or in the ultimate twist he would become a huge fan

"What passion! What drama!"

he recolors his leaves and joins the theater to become the Actor

[atomic haven]

Do the gargant gloom

[echo vapor]

He then joins Trobbio to kill anyone who would stumble across The Stage

Dynamic duo

[hoary furnace]

duct sucker

[red apex]

Reed

[foggy fractal]

Last Judge 🥶

[foggy stratus]

"He forgoes traditional hunting entirely and let's the prey come to him! An ingenious thespian, truly."-The Hunter

[shut nest]

Speaking of this is there a theory as to why Herrah looks so different from the other weavers?

Herrah doesnt even look like she's from the same species as the weavers.

[thorn path]

This is just my headcanon but maybe her different appearance is due to distancing from her creator? Also with the pharlids, there's two different pharlids that look different. Lemme see if I can get a photo up of them, it'll be easier to explain with it

[foggy fractal]

well its not like the other weavers who came to Hallownest looked different so it really seems like a Herrah specific thing

[thorn path]

True but those are weavers with their masks. Perhaps Herrah is how one would look without the mask, along with looking more like a pharlid (going back to old roots i guess) instead of a weaver. Idk tbh but this is an interesting question

[shut nest]

I searched for an answer to this question and one answer I could find that is minutely satisfying is that weavers undergo drastic changes with their body during birth, in this case herrah did give birth to hornet

And I think she is the only weaver that has done this as far as we know

[blissful harbor]

i mean we see widow
she looks nothing like herrah

no horns or nothing

[thorn path]

Damn thats true as well

[foggy fractal]

plus idk why Herrah would need to rip her head off to put on the dreamer mask

[thorn path]

Her head wasn't ripped off, it was just the weaver mask I think

[foggy fractal]

the big round head is biological if thats what you're refering to by weaver mask

we see it in fs cutscenes

[shut nest]

Weaver mask thing is also a bit confusing because from the cutscene after the first sinner bossfight, it looks like the mask of the pharlid is biologically a part of its anatomy

[thorn path]

But even then, I still dunno why it isn't just Herrah's face and horns but her whole body too. Comparing it to the weavers and Hornet's own size, she's huge. Aaa my brain is going psycho from bugs

[blissful harbor]

the answer is she wasn’t originally supppsed to be a weaver

[foggy fractal]

yeah yeah but its more fun to come up with a in universe answer that also doesn't contradict with anything

even though TC contradict themselves all the time so maybe we shouldn't try to be consistent

[shut nest]

I mean groal doesnt look like the stilkin either

[thorn path]

that's so true tho

[blissful harbor]

groal is all bloated from soul

he makes sense

[shut nest]

No proboscis though

All stilkin have those

[blissful harbor]

is a missing proboscis the same as being wildly different size and head shape?
he has a mouth he sucks with
small design choices are not at all the same as herrah and the weavers

[shut nest]

Stilkin look more like insect like groal looks like a frog

[blissful harbor]

and most of his design is meant to be evocative of soul master anyways

[shut nest]

True. I mean it can be blamed on the pollution in bilewater too

Its just adding to the fact that groal still looks significantly different from his servants

I initially thought herrah's horns were some sort of crown
But hornet also has those and no weavers have horns

So its probably part of herrahs body

[blissful harbor]

there are some unused weaver sprites that get kinda close

[sick tinsel]

can we assume that the ancient basin was white before white palace disappeared ?

[foggy fractal]

I think so

[sick tinsel]

yea i thought about that because the basin itself seems like a part of something bigger

[fading shard]

yeah for sure

especially since most liekly the pale kings PURE AURA

would be flashing like a flashlight 1 millino

[foggy stratus]

"... I refuse. This thing... no. Just... just no. Why does it possess Void within its shell... or whatever body it possesses. Why can it spawn more creatures... I'm leaving."-The Hunter

[foggy stratus]

An odd creature. It seems to live off the mucus that coats the cavern walls of the Ducts it calls home. Despite lacking higher thought, it still possesses a great danger to it. For most. Not me."-The Hunter

[sick tinsel]

real

[sick tinsel]

but yeah lets be fair ancient basin is cool

i like the background of the area where u save cloth

[foggy stratus]

"A flying nuisance. It has skill, yes, but is overall weaker than its grounded compatriots."-The Hunter

[sick tinsel]

reminds me of the citadel for some odd reason

[foggy stratus]

"A shelled maggot-like creature with an ego as large as itself. It fails a burning ball and chain with abandon. Little more than a tasty morsel in an oversized metallic shell."-The Hunter

[sick tinsel]

imagine being the one to eat the last judge

[foggy stratus]

"Small, weak creature. Hardly worth the effort to hunt, except for their oddly good taste, for a creature that lives in sand.-The Hunter Squirm entry.

He likes the taste of them.

[paper mantle]

😯

We have some lore of Absolom?

[foggy fractal]

I don't think so

[whole holly]

When did you think Nyleth allied with the Citadel? Weaver era or Conductor era?

personally i think Weaver era because of Architecture and Weaver's pattern of behavior with Fayforn, weavers seem capable with coexistence with other tribes

[foggy fractal]

"you" as in me? I have no answer I'm actually a hollow knight larper hello

[whole holly]

hey, yes i meant you and every reader, you can still guess

[foggy fractal]

hey speaking of is there a document/map of every instance of those stone pillars/stone architecture

[jagged sun]

Somewhere a few weeks ago in this channel

[plain gazelle]

definitely weaver era, the main route of pilgrimage goes right through her territory so the accord would have been struck early

[whole holly]

yea, Nyleth and Fayforn were weirdly revered by Weavers, likely reason why Karmelita, Khann and Green Princes weren't is because they are relatively isolationist or imperialist, Fayforn and Nyleth aren't harming anyone tbh

[foggy fractal]

idk karm, khann and gp can't give us a snazzy coat like fayforn can

[whole holly]

strung to serve is coolest ending, i wish it was added back

[foggy fractal]

maybe in a dlc

[plain gazelle]

it's cool but i can understand them not wanting to have an any% ending that's just "you fucking lose"

it'd have to be some specific, hard to do unintentionally fail condition like twisted child

[foggy stratus]

Wasn't the requirement to get it not binding GMS when the prompt shows up?

[craggy smelt]

we never get a definitive answer, though there is lots of speculation
I don't think this one holds up though, since Herrah's design in Silksong (post Hornet birth) still looks pretty different from her design in the first game
(mine explanation that Herrah thought becoming a Dreamer is like hibernation, so she gorged herself to fatness, like a bear!)

[plain gazelle]

from what i was heard it was not ringing all the bells, before ringing the bells was a requirement to get into the grand gate

[foggy fractal]

https://hollowknight.wiki/w/Cut_Content_(Silksong)/Ending_B:_Strung_to_Serve theres this page on it on the wiki

[foggy stratus]

Huh. Weird.

[whole holly]

Conductors are clearly worse than Weavers

where does Phantom even fit in timeline?

[foggy fractal]

there

[foggy stratus]

No, over there.

[foggy fractal]

where?!

[foggy stratus]

Bro, there.

[shut nest]

thats a very funny reasonable theory 😭

[stray grove]

I mean it’s not reasonable because her anatomy is still completely different nor would it line up with her significant redesign

There is no “satisfying” answer, you can come up with any number of headcanons if it floats your boat but the reality is Herrah was never supposed to be a Weaver in HK and once TC changed their minds there was only so much about the design they could alter

It’s not the sort of thing that has or requires an in-universe explanation and it’s hardly the worst SS retcon all things considered

[foggy fractal]

whats the top 3 worst retcons

[stray grove]

Void Shamans
Lifeblood
Mister Mushroom

[foggy fractal]

noooooo not the shamans

😔

[stray grove]

People dislike Three Queens but that’s not actually that bad it’s just kind of stupid

I guess the worst retcon is Hornet’s character if you count that lol

[shut nest]

the only difference that cant be justified with this theory is the horns

[stray grove]

That’s kind of the main issue lol

Also you’re missing the point

[foggy fractal]

😔 maybe they'll fix the journal entries in a dlc

[stray grove]

It’s not that it’s totally irreconcilable it’s that ultimately it’s a retcon with no in-universe explanation provided

[whole holly]

Sea of Sorrows !

[stray grove]

We’re under no obligation to make shit up for the sake of it but as I said headcanons are fine if that’s your thing

[foggy fractal]

imagine sea of sorrows makes it worst

it is called sea of sorrows for a reason

🤔

[whole holly]

hornet has same sentiment about rest of pharloom, she now hates everyone equally!

[foggy fractal]

w hornet

[craggy smelt]

what TC needs to do is update her sprite in the original game to reflect her new design, then claim it was never different

[shut nest]

Id accept this so gladly
like inconsistencies bother me so much even when I try not to be bothered by them

[whole holly]

can't believe it is confirmed that Grand Mother Silk accidentally ascended giant drapemite, Drapemites like dark and guess where herrah lives? deepnest which is dark, theory confirmed

[stray grove]

I mean at this point ascended Drapemite theory is arguably better than saying she got fat or wtv at least that tries to address the main difference between her and the other Weavers

[stray grove]

I mean it’s not that deep ngl

[whole holly]

i mean realistically why would GMS ascend Drapemite if not for experimentation? or accident?

[foggy fractal]

if you're bothered by incosistencies then surely those slabfly journal entries are going to be eating you up inside huh?

[stray grove]

There are a handful of inconsistencies that are particularly bothersome but Herrah is pretty benign

[foggy fractal]

plus the wingsmould one

[shut nest]

I probably havent payed attention 😭

[shut nest]

I wanna know some more

[whole holly]

personally i don't find inconsistencies really bothersome

[stray grove]

There’s so damn many
Hornet’s inconsistent characterization is the worst by far (Slabfly Journal entries particularly but a lot of others are also not great like the Lifeblood entries the Undercrank entry the Wingmould entry and all of the entries where she’s just like “oooh fluffy”) and also a lot of her dialogue like the Gilly Karm dialogue the GP dialogue her incessant need to constantly aura farm and declare she’s not a white savior (which is not how she really acted in the first game) so on and so forth
There are a lot of inconsistencies from HK too but most of them kinda don’t matter imo the worst are like Lifeblood, Void/Shamans, AC stuff and MM because they’re like objectively less interesting now
Then there’s shit like three queens first light/delicate flower (lmao) Herrah being a weaver there’s genuinely too many to enumerate in one message

[whole holly]

Little Weavers too

[foggy stratus]

Maybe Weavers' bodies decay or break down over time. Like, they're really long lived due to their Silk and ascension and all, but I dont think it'd be out of the question to think that the more Silk a Weaver uses the more their bodies degrade. It'd be a slow process but it could explain what happened to Herrah?

[foggy fractal]

oh yeah little weavers

[stray grove]

HK Weaver lore in general going nowhere is also pretty damn lame

[whole holly]

Deepnest Sire not being addressed and Hallownest Weaver not being addressed is more annoying than any of inconsistencies

[stray grove]

What most of the inconsistencies reveal is that TC are creatively bankrupt but the worst ones reveal that they’re also just bad writers in general

Well we knew that after EtV I guess

[foggy fractal]

I mean with what they said about their lore I'm not suprised

[whole holly]

before silksong people praised it, for most part

[foggy fractal]

its basically an afterthought lmao

[whole holly]

what did they say?

[foggy stratus]

Or maybe TC prefer making a game more than lore? I dunno tbh.

[stray grove]

I mean it’s a Metroidvania so obviously

[stray grove]

They’ve also basically admitted that the lore is just an afterthought and that’s fine

But shit like the Slabfly entries 💀

[foggy stratus]

So then I dont think we should really call them bad writers then.

[stray grove]

They are bad writers

[foggy stratus]

Yeah... thats bad.

[stray grove]

Not caring that much doesn’t mean they’re good writers

[foggy fractal]

does not checking your writing before you release something make you bad writers? I'd think so

[foggy stratus]

Its just not their main focus tho.

[foggy fractal]

and it shows

[stray grove]

That doesn’t make it not a valid criticism

[whole holly]

oh

[stray grove]

I can’t conceive of any universe where they could sit down and write the Slabfly entries

The issue is not that the writing is generally of very low quality it’s that there are certain aspects of the writing that negatively impact the good parts

[foggy stratus]

It just seems kinda shallow when youre judging them based off work that isnt meant to be like super super detailed. As said prior, it's an after thought for them.

[stray grove]

Like acts 1 and 2 are pretty good for the most part I’d say sans some mid dialogue here and there

Slab is a good area if you disregard the entries

But you can’t and they ruin what that’s trying to convey and also Hornet’s character

But it’s not an isolated incident

[whole holly]

why is hornet so bigoted like, she endured worse and her moral standards are in the trenches

[stray grove]

TC also reuse the like same three ideas over and over again and Act 3 is goofy ahh

[whole holly]

bad afterthoughts are still bad

[whole holly]

they try to flesh things out in some DLCs like Lifeblood DLC

[foggy fractal]

I mean

godhome gave us ETV so

[stray grove]

Godhome sucks EtV sucks

[spark valve]

sure but if even an afterthought contains the sentiment that some gruesome people should stop breeding something has gone wrong

[foggy stratus]

Ok. Nice opinion ig.

[foggy fractal]

I don't think their attitude with their lore is gonna change throughout development of dlcs for silksong unfortunately

[whole holly]

you never know

[stray grove]

No EtV is like genuinely just really bad the presentation is misleading it undermines the narrative it undermines TK’s character it doesn’t resolve important plot threads it’s just an awful ending

[foggy stratus]

I'm not trying to defend the bad writing itself, I'm just voicing my opinion that calling them bad writers based off lore thats an after thought is at least some what shallow.

[foggy fractal]

heres hoping

[spark valve]

they're not bad writers they just write bad ahh

[whole holly]

it's there for powermaxxing

[stray grove]

Godhome in general isn’t awful but the lore is just like functional it doesn’t really serve much purpose beyond explaining the boss rush mode

[foggy stratus]

Yeah this.

[stray grove]

I don’t know why they canonized the boss rush

But EtV is horrendous

[foggy fractal]

and having your lore be an afterthought makes them bad writers!!!!

:C Grrrrrrrr

[stray grove]

TK was already the strongest thing ever in DNM is the thing

[foggy fractal]

dnm still mogs every other ending

[foggy stratus]

It just means they wanted to focus on other parts of their game.

[stray grove]

EtV is a negligible power boost

[sinful nimbus]

Why is the Mio story kinda tuff

[whole holly]

THK surviving after EtV doesn't hold narrative weight

[foggy fractal]

they can focus on other parts of the game and still be bad writers

[whole holly]

i still haven't played that game

[stray grove]

“kinda tuff” ok

It’s literally every other MV story but go off I guess

[foggy fractal]

what about nine sols

[sinful nimbus]

the truth does not yield answers 🗣️

[stray grove]

Funny you should mention Nine Mids because it and Mio actually have the exact same story

Like down to the letter

[foggy fractal]

grrrrrrrr don't you EVER call Nine Sols mid again Chud. 🐺 or else...

[stray grove]

The only differences are aesthetic

[sinful nimbus]

https://tenor.com/view/no-more-mrnice-guy-gif-5514575174069255156

[foggy fractal]

yeah. no more mr nice Andy.

[foggy stratus]

Yeah but when they arent focusing on the writing I personally think we should withhold calling them bad writers. They wrote some bad stuff, yes, but that doesnt inherently make them bad writers.

[whole holly]

i haven't finished it, or bo : path of teal lotus, stories are similar they involve divine exploitative caste and one defector/outlier member of that cast is supposed to change/overcome that system/pattern

[stray grove]

ts was not that tuff iunno why u keep glazing it twin but that ain’t it 🥀

[sinful nimbus]

If they write bad stuff they are bad writers bro 🥀

Mio could never

[foggy stratus]

So if an artist makes one bad artwork they're a bad artist?

[sinful nimbus]

Not cuz its a good story but because Mio isn't racist

[stray grove]

Kanye ass argument

[foggy fractal]

its different though

[whole holly]

lol

[foggy fractal]

its not like TC made one mistake in their writing

[foggy stratus]

Why you bring up Kayne West?

[whole holly]

i am loving your humor

[foggy fractal]

their lore was an afterthought and that resulted in multiple bad parts

[stray grove]

Because it’s actually an apt comparison considering the topic of discussion is the Slabfly entries

[sinful nimbus]

They ain't bad writers mfs when Fearless Fox features another infection which is actually a curse from an angry god 🗣️

[spark valve]

"The less these gruesome bugs breed, the better. "
vs
"no life above the other"

[foggy fractal]

is mr nine sols racist

[whole holly]

bo switches it up kind of

[whole holly]

Yi?

[stray grove]

No Nine Sols has the same message as Mio

[sinful nimbus]

The Citadel is kinda well written and HK is if you ignore an entire ending

[foggy fractal]

sorry I haven't played Mio

🙂‍↕️

[stray grove]

Well he is a bit racist at first but he stops being racist

[sinful nimbus]

But idk HK seems to be the only thing they can write judging off of SS which recycled everything

[whole holly]

well, yea

[stray grove]

But in Nine Sols it’s actually part of his character development and he suffers consequences for it

[sinful nimbus]

What they should do is upscale Sharpe 100 times and it would save the narrative

[stray grove]

He doesn’t just blurt out “lmao we should kill all these gruesome fuckers” and move on with his day

[foggy fractal]

w red candle

[spark valve]

silksong expecting you to smile and nod along with hornet being a racist pos and a huge chunk of the fandom just doing so

[whole holly]

maybe they felt like they had to meet similar expectations?

[foggy fractal]

who knows whats going on in TCs head

but it could as well be they were lazy and just reused stuff

again look at that god damn interview

smh

[spark valve]

"I had the best idea for a quest, we could have these bells that drop in the bell veins and you have to go collect them this will be a GREAT use of time"

[foggy fractal]

wonder who it was

Ari

William

or Jack

🤔

[sinful nimbus]

When were acts added

Do you think it was after they played E33

[spark valve]

never let them cook

[whole holly]

i actually didn't like Nine Sols parry

[stray grove]

Even at the start of Nine Sols ||Yi is fighting to save the humans|| tbf he just doesn’t totally come to see how fucked shit was until later ||at which point he literally sacrifices everything including himself so that they can lead better lives in the absence of their oppressors|| so it’s not fair to compare that to Hornet who is presented as generally super kind and helpful but is also a violent racist and you should just accept that

[foggy fractal]

w yi w nine sols

[stray grove]

Crazy how every MV has the exact same story and they’re all better than SS

[foggy stratus]

I think if you factor in the Rosaries gotten from the needed enemies to kill it should more even out.

[foggy fractal]

another billion jin towards red candle please

[whole holly]

you should try Bo, i think you will love story,

[sinful nimbus]

I feel like doing all quests should give u at least like 500 rosaries

[foggy stratus]

Tbh I think its pretty clear where most of their time and effort went into.

[sinful nimbus]

Maybe 1000 ttbh

[sinful nimbus]

Not act 3

[foggy stratus]

The wayfinder quests should give a rosary necklace.

[stray grove]

SS isn’t even the best MV gameplay wise twin

[foggy fractal]

nah I think acts were pretty early on definitely before e33 released

[sinful nimbus]

I remember hearing that they were late in development

[stray grove]

Mio has better gameplay better ideas a better map better aesthetics and a better story

[sinful nimbus]

what story twin

[stray grove]

TC caught lightning in a bottle cos literally nobody else was doing it (HK is a very average MV) and people glazed the sequel

[foggy stratus]

At this point it just kinda feels like you're just shitting on silksong tbh.

[whole holly]

they are trying to save a ||moon god || that sustains order , because elite divine caste is siphoning it's power to sustain their own lives, which should logically have been lore of silksong and weavers

[foggy fractal]

I mean at that point its a matter of opinion

[stray grove]

I mean I think it’s a fine game with a lot of significant flaws but we’re talking about the writing

[fading shard]

honestly love yi

[whole holly]

Grand Mother Silk was siphoned sure, but her wrath could have been more interesting than yet another Infection

[fading shard]

Unlike Hornet who's just a poorly written character

like ooooo we're going to kill people for sport

[whole holly]

they seem little emotionless

[fading shard]

which will result in the collapse of the caverns

[foggy stratus]

Hopefully it'll get better with the DlCS.

[fading shard]

at the start of the game yes

but you see in the future as you keep playing how he devlops

[whole holly]

i haven't finished it

[stray grove]

HK got worse after the DLCs so I wouldn’t hold my breath

[sinful nimbus]

Hidden Dreams lore was tuff

[foggy stratus]

Ok that's just wrong tbh.

[fading shard]

since when???

[fading shard]

everybody loved the god master dlc

and grimm troupe

[sinful nimbus]

Grimm Troupe was OK but Godhome def made DLCs a net negative

[stray grove]

Why are we acting like the non Godmaster DLCs had lore

GT was fine

[fading shard]

how?

[sinful nimbus]

Ogrim arc

[foggy stratus]

Yeah TRotK is just shitting on Hollow Knight AND Silksong now.

[fading shard]

Godhome was loved star

idk what you're talking about

[sinful nimbus]

Isma... I miss... I miss you 🗣️

[stray grove]

WHO loved Godhome

[foggy stratus]

Me???

[foggy fractal]

I think this shows its earlier?

[fading shard]

me?

[sinful nimbus]

Godhome skips the climax of the game its awful 💔

[fading shard]

Dude the pantheons are really well done

[stray grove]

Pantheons have no lore

[sinful nimbus]

hm

[foggy stratus]

Bro if youre getting upset at fully optional content you should probably go someplace else then.

[fading shard]

Not everything is about lore kirb

[stray grove]

Aside from EtV Godhome lore is just functional

I mean gameplay wise it is also pretty bad lol

[sinful nimbus]

E33 glaze o'clock

[foggy fractal]

no no that's a few hours later

its actually Nine Sols glaze o'clock

[fading shard]

you'e the first person I've seen complaining about it

[foggy stratus]

Yeah let's just disregard TRotK now hes gone off the deep end.

[stray grove]

HoG is good PoH is awful they also cut like 90% of the shit they planned
A couple of the new bosses are fun
For the most part it’s a very standard boss rush mode

[whole holly]

i mean we got Land of Storms, Tuner memory... which might be addressed

[stray grove]

Idk why you’re glazing TC for ts they did nothing new

But this is the lore channel

[fading shard]

hog poh?

[stray grove]

We were talking about the writing

[foggy stratus]

Hall of Gods and Pantheon of Hallownest.

[whole holly]

when is bo : path of teal lotus glaze clock?

[foggy fractal]

sorry already passed you gotta wait like 21 hours

😔

[fading shard]

what stuff did they even cut

other then the extra charm notch

[sinful nimbus]

neither game is beating ts

[whole holly]

Deltarune beats it

[fading shard]

I'd say deltarune is better

[foggy fractal]

move it bud not your time anymore!

[sinful nimbus]

if you laugh you go to hell

[fading shard]

played expedition 33

it's a good game

but art isn't everything

and the beginning feels very boring

[sinful nimbus]

Is there a better shot or story moment in C3 or C4

[foggy stratus]

I'm not glazing them, I'm saying that it wasn't shit content. I can guess you dont like boss rushes based off how you talk about GodHome.

[whole holly]

which is better, OneShot or Deltarune? in your opinion

[stray grove]

I don’t dislike boss rushes but they’re not allat

I think having one is fine

But Godhome wasn’t the best execution of one I’ve seen

[fading shard]

Oneshot to me personally is my favourite

[sinful nimbus]

P5 is insanely boring

[fading shard]

because of how well done they did their game

[whole holly]

mine too

[stray grove]

It reveals that the HK boss quality is actually dogshit

[lime rock]

I haven’t played oneshot so I lowk gotta go with Deltarune

[foggy fractal]

I haven't played either

[stray grove]

Waiter waiter 40 more filler bosses so I can do the actual good fights

[foggy fractal]

so I lowkey gotta go with nine sols instead!

[whole holly]

yeah, haven't played world machine edition but i loved it, i am excited for margin of strange

[fading shard]

nine sols is a lot better

[light verge]

based Andy take as per usual

[fading shard]

don't play world machine edition

it's just a console port

with a few extra things

but it's not worthi t

[stray grove]

I mean yeah but it’s not a super fair comparison

[whole holly]

thanks, abhiker

[fading shard]

yes I know nine sols has 10 bosses

around 10 I mean

[stray grove]

I don’t think Nine Sols combat is amazing or anything but it has far fewer bosses than HK so it makes sense that they’d focus their resources into those

[foggy fractal]

https://tenor.com/view/hi-hello-wave-greetings-welcome-gif-14261308065134487098

yay!

[fading shard]

it's really well done

[sinful nimbus]

MIO bossrush should lowk let you disable abilities binding-style

[stray grove]

Parryslop

[foggy fractal]

Parrygem!

[stray grove]

NOBODY CARES

[sinful nimbus]

Wow rude

[foggy fractal]

guys guys lets go back to silksong lore discourse

[fading shard]

oh wow we get it anything you dislike is slop

[stray grove]

Why do you keep reposting this one boss fight

[fading shard]

it's engaging and fun to do man

[stray grove]

It sucks ass

[fading shard]

Idk why you do dislike parries

[sinful nimbus]

You sequence breaked it bro

E33 has better parries

[stray grove]

No it doesn’t

[fading shard]

ultrakill has the best parries

[whole holly]

bo is less focused on parry and i am grateful for that

[sinful nimbus]

But the goat of parryslop is always gonna be Sekiro and MGRR

[foggy fractal]

I haven't seen a lot of lace age, if any at all here its lowkey dying out

[fading shard]

Let's not be pretending it doesn't

[stray grove]

Star stop it this is too much

[foggy fractal]

have you guys seen it

[stray grove]

E33 combat is not allat

It’s Mario rpg combat

“Parries” yeah good one

[sinful nimbus]

This is a knuckleblaster household

[stray grove]

More slop please

[sinful nimbus]

Don't you like MHstories 3