sk-lore

[twin dragon]

||Something something i hate being expendable and i jumped the library, i am sad because i failed objective, i dont care, a great character and the heart|| mio spoilers

[sinful nimbus]

I'm readin up on this hold on

[eternal cove]

Y'know, if they wanted to go that route, they could've just copied SOMA

[sick tinsel]

is crust king khan edible

[lapis creek]

yes

[twin dragon]

they're just not very interesting

even with the twist

which is like, completely unnecessary

[sinful nimbus]

i'm not gonna pretend its a groundbreaking story or glaze it as ultradeep or anything but the|| embedded humans dealing with their newfound immortality and new way of existence is kinda neat ||

[zinc dove]

Was Hornet raised in Hallownest? I'm going through her memories on act 3 and she has memories from deepnest and the hive

[sinful nimbus]

And is also the basis of the story

[foggy stratus]

She was born in Deepnest, trained in the Hive and spent time in the Pale Court.

[sinful nimbus]

I can't find a reason for why this is though

[twin dragon]

Aside from now knowing this, we also dont really know how this was done or how the entire selection process went, etc, barely anything for something supposedly super important

[twin dragon]

Do we know how they dealt with it initially? or do we just know that they suffered eventual mental decay which uhh.. yeah?

[sinful nimbus]

We know how it was done and the ||selection process|| isn't relevant for anything

might need to spoil more stuff lowk

[sinful nimbus]

||pearl logs usually deal with it yeah||

[twin dragon]

||Iirc its not super relevant to ask how embedding was done, as we know what it is||

[twin dragon]

i've collected most of them and they only relate to the current events iirc

[sinful nimbus]

I mean yeah its scifi

[twin dragon]

but knowing those details would be neat either way

||and maybe getting to know why lura failed||

[zinc dove]

do we have any idea of when silksong takes place? doesn't seem to be immediately after hollow knight

[sinful nimbus]

I mean yeah its not super fleshed out but eh

[twin dragon]

Another metroidvania with a protagonist without much characterization... smh...

were my expectations too high

[sinful nimbus]

should've made mio more racist

[twin dragon]

should've made mio anything at all

||-Exist
-Take on a journey to save vessel because ???
-???||

[whole holly]

guys why discuss mio? we could discuss Nine Sols and Bo : path of teal lotus

[twin dragon]

What is bo

[sinful nimbus]

||She's the keeper of the eye ofc she'd want to save the vessel/find the coordinates||

[whole holly]

it is platformer but they are more similar to hollow knight than celeste

[twin dragon]

||Does she become the keeper of the eye upon the first time meeting her or was she the keeper before||

[sinful nimbus]

||Its not a story that demands for a super involved protagonist either||

[sinful nimbus]

the latter

[covert night]

i forgot most details about mio lore

[twin dragon]

Great there's also no info on that part

[twin dragon]

It would be very neat

[sinful nimbus]

🥴

[twin dragon]

Mio's the game that deserves the protagonist with characterization

js imagine all of the interactions

[twin dragon]

nine sols looking ass

[sinful nimbus]

Why did TK lowk have as much characterization and a better arc then Hornet

[whole holly]

silksong's the game that deserves the protagonist with better characterization than hornet has right now

[twin dragon]

hornet mogs

[twin dragon]

agree

like i agree

[whole holly]

one is a cat and one is a fox? plus one is parry based one is pogo based

[twin dragon]

they botched her with some writing

[twin dragon]

pogo based...

interesting

now you've got my attention

[sinful nimbus]

Hornet fans when she says she likes fluffy things 3 times in her journal

[twin dragon]

i have to compensate for the dissapointment that mio's pogo was

[whole holly]

but for platforms, you can use it in battle too, tbh

[sinful nimbus]

Mio's pogo is fantastic

[twin dragon]

Mio fans when mio says:

[whole holly]

it is reaper crest pogo, basically

[twin dragon]

I found it to have very little use

[sinful nimbus]

loudish sound warning

[twin dragon]

yeah no your videos cant load for me

im cursed

[sinful nimbus]

touche

[twin dragon]

i lwk did the entirety of peakzilla parkour without pogoing a single time

[sinful nimbus]

Anyway the pogo doing no damage allows for some great sequence breaks

It doesn't have much use in combat other than gaining height but that's ok who cares 💔

[whole holly]

that looks like bad pogo, bo's pogo is better tbh, but it is not challenging game though

[twin dragon]

well i can do that by resetting my abilities with the basic attack

which does damage and has a better reach

i mean tbf the pogo did aid somewhat with son and violation

for a liiiil bit of height gain when i couldnt reach the automatons

[sinful nimbus]

Yeah that's the bread and butter of Mio combat

But the pogo is a little more height at the cost of not doing damage (Which allows for the aforementioned sequence breaks without really harming combat)

It would harm combat in like Silksong

[twin dragon]

i had the full experience of that one dogshit boss that makes you hate the mechanics recently though

[twin dragon]

absolutely

[sinful nimbus]

:) ?

[twin dragon]

mhm

[sinful nimbus]

Yeah

I was lucky to find it lategame and first try it on a first playthrough

[twin dragon]

i wish i fought this boss in any game but mio

I fought it with my 0 legacies and it sucked

i had to dpsmaxx

[sick tinsel]

whats possibly the reason of hornet affection for fluffy things

[foggy stratus]

Shes a big softie who's never seen anything like it while in Hallownest and so her brain is releasing copious amounts of dopamine when she sees it.

[sick tinsel]

i wont blame her i would too fold against fleas

[sinful nimbus]

she dated thistlewind

[foggy stratus]

Probably also has to do with her time in the Hive.

[twin dragon]

john forgettable enemy

[foggy stratus]

John not soft but looks soft enemy.

[sick tinsel]

hive knight ??

[foggy stratus]

Maybe.

I dunno.

I'd say they used to date(or the bug equivalent) but Hornet said all of her prior mates died before her.

[sick tinsel]

yeah probably

he seems like a sweet dude

fuck radianc

[bold night]

What’s the difference between dreams and memories and what’s the deal with void and lifeblood and the void civilization

[sinful nimbus]

all memories are dreams but not all dreams are memories

dream ream basically encompasses all thought, mind activity, etc

[twin dragon]

actually what am i saying

[sinful nimbus]

Void is a primordial substance that lashes out towards all life near it, it likes to stay in the abyss but its tendency to consume soul had it creeping up the remaining silk threads of the haunting

Lifeblood's a weird substance found in a plant, consuming enough of it deforms you in a manner similar to The Infection, it has some ties to essence so its likely also the result of a dream god but that's just speculation as of now. Sea of Sorrow is probably gonna give more info on it

[twin dragon]

retconned to be infectionslop

[sinful nimbus]

The Void Civilization was a widespread group of bugs who revered the void, wanting to be cleansed of desire through it. Remnants of their civilization include the Ancient Masks, Soul Vessels, Soul Totems, and Arcane Eggs which they used to store information with

The existence of soul vessels and soul totems implies they were spellcasters

These are likely ancient civilization members

[twin dragon]

There's also the possibility that they harvested soul to either mantain themselves in such harsh conditions nearby the abyss or maybe used the soul as a bait for the void of some kind

[sinful nimbus]

I'm not sure why or how that would maintain them but it could've been related to void consuming soul yeah

[twin dragon]

Soul's life energy

[sinful nimbus]

Ancient Masks also appear to use soul though

So it wasn't just void shenanigans

[twin dragon]

the keeper of the lightouse had soul pots

[twin dragon]

is everything soul now

[sinful nimbus]

Magic white glowy things are usually soul yeah

[twin dragon]

made with some weird material that some speculate is pale ore

[sinful nimbus]

Is there a magic white glowing rune that isn't related to soul

[twin dragon]

for some reason

[sinful nimbus]

That's stated in their item description

[twin dragon]

But likely soul related yeah

[twin dragon]

?

[sinful nimbus]

'An ancient mask carved from cold, pale ore.'

[twin dragon]

In which game

[sinful nimbus]

Silksong

[twin dragon]

lwk how could have i missed this

[sinful nimbus]

This is a new addition

[twin dragon]

alright thats interesting

so we know that pale ore is now widespread

[sinful nimbus]

Well a civilization that used it was

But I don't see why it would be Hallownest exclusive tbh

[empty scarab]

https://tenor.com/view/hornet-hollow-knight-yayyy-reaction-dancing-gif-8195069935138336617

[hard widget]

https://youtu.be/l8oOnnhWwX0?si=SagRY0RHp8WecS9w

I feel very vindicated

Now I don’t have to make a video essay

[sinful nimbus]

is ts the guy who made a 30 minue vid on sherma

[hard widget]

I was wrong in a few places but overall this is in line with my thoughts

[hard widget]

I think so

lol

I haven’t seen that one

Got this in my recs this evening

[sinful nimbus]

idk why I'm hating i didn't watch it

anyway what's the vid about PK say

[hard widget]

TLDR He did a pretty decent job as a king but hallownest had many outstanding flaws (trying to grant the desires of bugs making them greedy and complacent) and his attempts to resist the course of nature were folly

[stray grove]

Fatbrett

[hard widget]

“No cost too great” isn’t really a good way run your kingdom cuz it ends with a giant hidden pile of bodies in the basement

[stray grove]

47 minutes are you kidding me

[hard widget]

I love this meme

[hard widget]

Light work

[stray grove]

I mean this is a pretty superficial analysis

[hard widget]

The hyperfixation must be fed and I’m almost out of quality Silksong content

[hard widget]

May or may not be completely finished with the video

[sinful nimbus]

https://tenor.com/view/cat-but-heres-the-yapping-gif-5342913541658644726

[hard widget]

35 minutes in currently

[stray grove]

Also people misunderstand the whole to rail against nature is folly thing that’s not really supposed to be a direct criticism of PK’s actions

And it’s not that PK caused the bugs of Hallownest to become greedy and complacent either Hunter is just saying shit

[sinful nimbus]

I thought hunter was better than Hornet???

[hard widget]

You can’t just ignore a canon source like the journal what

[stray grove]

They were complacent in the same sense that you or I typing ts are complacent

[sinful nimbus]

The cost of so much grandeur... Did I peer closely enough into the foundations of my own kingdom?

[stray grove]

Like yeah they didn’t have to hunt to survive holy shit bro it’s called civilization

[hard widget]

I mean I’m getting my law degree to try and change ts man idk about you

[sinful nimbus]

OK the journal is canon but its written from the perspective of some guy just musing and writing what he thinks

[stray grove]

Not my point?

Hunter considers anyone living in a civilized society to be complacent

[sinful nimbus]

Pale Wyrm... What good to foresee a demise unavoidable?

[hard widget]

That doesn’t invalidate his critiques of the society of hallownest as a whole

[stray grove]

It actually does kinda Hunter doesn’t have any point of comparison

[sinful nimbus]

one of the tuffest quotes in the game and its from some throwaway mushroom corpse

[hard widget]

We don’t know this at all

[stray grove]

Hunter is a violent cannibal

[hard widget]

Hunter is almost certainly long lived and from outside hallownest

And he leaves it for the next area once he’s done

[stray grove]

We get to know a lot about the guy from reading his journal actually

How he thinks what his beliefs and desires are etc

[hard widget]

Yeah ive read it through a few times

God that achievement was brutal

[stray grove]

He has never lived as part of a civilized society

[hard widget]

Even moreso on switch

[calm token]

We know he thinks the knight is better at hunting then him

[stray grove]

His age and origins are irrelevant

He lives for the hunt

It’s like if a caveman walked into a modern city and called the people living there weak

[hard widget]

I disagree with that entirely

It’s like if a hunter living in the boonies went to a city and called them weak

[stray grove]

You are splitting hairs

Evidently you agree with the basic premise

[hard widget]

Who better to critique the flaws of civilization than someone who lives outside it?

[stray grove]

The point is Hunter is a guy who has to kill to survive the dude is literally a cannibal he doesn’t exist in a society

[hard widget]

Shakra acts in much the same way and gives many of the same opinions

[stray grove]

Yeah he’s musing that’s not a real criticism

“Oh these people are so weak they don’t have to go out and hunt in order to survive”

Like yeah bro it’s called fucking civilization

He’s literally fighting civilians with no combat experience

That is why, as I said earlier, Hunter would also consider you or I typing ts to be complacent

[hard widget]

Probably

[stray grove]

Hallownest was indeed not a perfect society but Hunter isn’t the one to point out its actual flaws

[hard widget]

We don’t have to take his word as law it’s just one source to use to make inferences

[stray grove]

Context matters

[hard widget]

Like primary source analysis used by historians

Which is mostly filtering through muck to find actual tangible meaning

[stray grove]

Hunter isn’t omniscient and while we can learn a lot from him he has his own perceptions and beliefs that are immediately evident upon reading his Journal, he is judging Hallownest based on those

[hard widget]

Anyways the video lays it out better than I am

[stray grove]

Hunter’s ideal society would be like fucking Viltrum where people just kill and eat each other 24/7 and it’s survival of the fittest

He doesn’t understand the point of civilization because he’s never engaged with it

Obviously you can’t take this as a real criticism or infer anything reasonable from it

Hallownest was perfectly functional and while shit like classism and systemic racism existed those weren’t things PK could realistically combat directly and by all accounts life was pretty damn good there for the average citizen

The game spells this out pretty clearly and idk what more you could expect from the guy really so if that’s one of the conclusions of the video it’s pretty damn reductive

[vast elk]

TIL hunter's kinda a pschyopath

[sinful nimbus]

he killed his dog

he also muses about devouring his insides

[eternal cove]

I love Whiteward lore, even if it is kinda just Bloodborne lore but for HK

[foggy stratus]

I love Whisp Thicket lore, even if it has one of the most annoying bosses ever.

[eternal cove]

Father of the Flame is easier than Flukemarm

Okay not really but still

[lethal kayak]

Are pictures not allowed here? Was going to include screenshot, but - are the background statues upon exiting mist / entering exhaust organ supposed to be bugs? Looks like the oval ones like Mya from HK

[foggy stratus]

You can post images here.

[swift needle]

I would post the aura monster gif but SOMETHING took my img perms

I truly wonder

[foggy stratus]

You can post lore related images here. Not whatever the fuck you post.

[swift needle]

[plain gazelle]

those are just the pilgrim reliefs that are all over pharloom

[sinful nimbus]

You need 300 messages for img perms

you can find more info in #support-and-faq idk why its not in #rules-and-info

[lethal kayak]

what does reliefs mean here?

[plain gazelle]

like they look to be carved out of the stone face

but yeah they're in lots of places, notably entrance to blasted steps, i think some in marrow and far fields?, and probably the most interesting ones are at the entrance to underworks where it looks like the conductors have covered the faces

[lyric rose]

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=pFAknD_9U7c&pp=ygUXc2lsa3NvbmcgcmV2ZWFsIHRyYWlsZXLSBwkJ1AoBhyohjO8%3D
check the part with Chapel Maiden. The Needolin doesn’t require silk.

[lyric rose]

Pretty sure there’s some in Bilewater too

[plain gazelle]

yeah

[lyric rose]

From the second trailer

[sinful nimbus]

why does it cost silk anyway

[lyric rose]

Beats me.

[sinful nimbus]

zero gameplay utility

[lyric rose]

It’s too laggy to be chained into itself between nail hits

[sinful nimbus]

Lomm...

[lyric rose]

Doesn’t even pause them for as long as you hold the button

[sinful nimbus]

let my man into sea of sorrow 🙏

[lyric rose]

I think I might have an idea about what happened to widow

Recall that she had her mask removed

[foggy stratus]

What cost silk?

[sinful nimbus]

needolin

[lyric rose]

A mask can alter the mind of a bug

[foggy stratus]

Hornet is too rough and snaps the strand mid chord.

[lyric rose]

As described by the Mask Makers, and seen with Brumm and Nymm

[sinful nimbus]

Oh spider dear! The way you pluck and pound at that crude instrument! What tragedy!
Why did they cut this its true

[lyric rose]

Judging by First Sinner’s cutscene, Weavers seem to have masks from birth.

Thus, widow would have never had a maskless personality

[foggy stratus]

That feels more like their skull instead of a mask.

A mask from birth is just their skull.

[lyric rose]

It’s a mask.

[sinful nimbus]

Mask Maker's dialogue is metaphorical

[stray grove]

Masks in-universe don’t always refer to literal masks they oftentimes refer to actual faces

[stray grove]

Ball knowledge

[foggy stratus]

Why the fuck does Hornet love saying the most random ass shit in her journal entries.

[sinful nimbus]

She's correct here

why did they make mask and face the same word

[stray grove]

This is consistent with the other uses of the term mask

[sinful nimbus]

ts wasn't in HK1

it was in wanderer's journal

[lyric rose]

And we know from Nymm (who is heavily implied to be Brumm without the Troupe Mask)

[stray grove]

“HK1” 🥀

Gng what are we talking about

[foggy stratus]

Mf its just HK.

[sinful nimbus]

sorry it wasn't in HK: Voidheart Edition

[foggy stratus]

HK:VE*

[lyric rose]

That bugs who lose their masks might lose their memories

[near jasper]

How does Hornet know Widow's mask was forcefully removed

[stray grove]

Me when I make shit up

[stray grove]

She can see that she’s been mutilated

[foggy stratus]

How else would it be removed.

[near jasper]

Tripped obviously

[sinful nimbus]

I don't think Widow ripped her own face off and lodged the pins in her back

[lyric rose]

It’s probably way more graphic to characters in universe

[stray grove]

It’s like if you see a person whose face has been cut off

[lyric rose]

She didn’t

Someone else did.

[foggy stratus]

Or skull removed.

[stray grove]

“Their body resembled a human’s but their face seems to have been forcibly removed”

[lyric rose]

From there she may have been a blank canvas of sorts

[stray grove]

That’s not analogous

[lyric rose]

No maskless identity

[near jasper]

Mood

[lyric rose]

Allowing her to be brainwashed into complete Silk subservience

[stray grove]

You don’t seem to understand what masks actually are in universe

[lyric rose]

Me or Horf Vessel?

[stray grove]

You

Well both of you but mostly you

[sinful nimbus]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2GpCU76kIRY

consider this

[stray grove]

So true

[foggy stratus]

[lyric rose]

If a grizzled got its face ripped off, that’s a dead gruzzer

[stray grove]

Anyway the reason Brumm and Nymm have different personalities is because the Grimm Troupe are explicitly said to use nightmare magic to shroud themselves in “forms dreamed” that’s not a generic quality of masks lol

We have plenty of dialogue where mask is just used interchangeably with face and we know the thing Hornet is referring to here is a normal part of Weaver anatomy

That’s beyond obvious

We literally see a Weaver get created in the FS cutscene and it already has the mask

So it’s not a “mask from birth” it’s part of their body it’s just their face Widow got mutilated

Holy reading comprehension

[near jasper]

Its kinda crazy how long weavers live

[stray grove]

They don’t live that long actually

[foggy stratus]

Not really tbh.

[lyric rose]

Even horrifically mutilated weavers

[foggy stratus]

They have natural silk in them and silk acts as a life extender.

[stray grove]

Widow likely only lived as long as she did BECAUSE she was mutilated

[foggy stratus]

How?

[lyric rose]

Ok now you’re making no dang sense

[stray grove]

Her silk was bound inside her body so she couldn’t use her literal lifeforce to cast spells

Every other weaver was basically using their life energy to cast magic hence references to their silk “waning”

[lyric rose]

Weavers naturally produce silk

[stray grove]

Their silk is their life force

Silk is soul

[near jasper]

The lifeforce that naturally replinishes fast enough you can litterally just trade it for stuff

[stray grove]

Not true

[lyric rose]

If you have regenerating silk, and silk is soul, then you have regenerating soul

Actually

[foggy stratus]

Do you think Weavers were killing themselves for all the Silk they gave to PK to the point Hallownest made paper out of the shit?

[lyric rose]

That could tie into Kingsoul’s effect

[stray grove]

Sister, spider, sat between salt and stone,
Build those tools of brilliant mind imagined,
Aid us when our Silk has waned.

Their Silk is their life force, it was waning

Every Weaver aside from Widow is dead and has been for a long time

[foggy stratus]

And the tools all use Silk. The thing that would be in short supply under this interpretation.

[near jasper]

Do you think no one thought trapping the silk god might fuck up their silk

[stray grove]

We also know Silk is literally used to artificially extend lifespans

[lyric rose]

Perhaps the soul generation represents the immunity of Higher Beings to aging

[sinful nimbus]

or they were getting gobbled up by Fayforn

They were kinda morons what were they even casting spells for 🥀

[stray grove]

Those tools didn’t have to use their own silk that is the difference

Weavers can’t normally channel Silk from other sources through their bodies directly like Hornet can, that’s a Wyrm thing

But they can use tools to that end

[near jasper]

Me when I use my lifeforce to Just write stuff

[lyric rose]

They’re only good in Pharloom. Where Mommy Issues.

[foggy stratus]

"Ancient weapon of the Weavers, repaired to its original form.
Uses shell canisters and the wielder's own Silk to fire."

[stray grove]

I’m not sure what your point is

[lyric rose]

They shot them with their own silk

[stray grove]

The Weavers never actually used the Silkshot though

[lyric rose]

By your logic that’s like using your own kidney stones as bullets

[stray grove]

What do you think silk waning refers to in this context

[lyric rose]

Or… maybe this one just got leftover and broke

[stray grove]

That’s not what is being conveyed here

[foggy stratus]

"Uses shell canisters and the wielder's own Silk to fire" not Hornet's own Silk, the wielder's.

[lethal kayak]

ah oke ty! tbh I just wanted to make a stupid meme about Mya from HK and these stone statues, like "This is her now, feel old yet?" since the face is similar

[foggy stratus]

Their silk isnt enough to fight back.

[stray grove]

Ok are you deliberately ignoring me

[stray grove]

Fight back against what

[lyric rose]

MOMMY ISSUES

[stray grove]

She was already sealed

This was written way after that

[foggy stratus]

Then why the fuck did they design it?

If not intending to use it?

[lyric rose]

Buckshot roulette

[near jasper]

Me when I have to use my lifeforce to put into a walking lamp

[stray grove]

Not every single example of weaver tech necessarily used their own silk is the point being made here

[lyric rose]

This one did

It is specifically stated to do that

[stray grove]

Weavers do not have the ability to channel silk, which is soul, from external sources through their bodies directly

[stray grove]

This is also besides the point

[foggy stratus]

Both examples of a Weaver offensive device do.

[lyric rose]

You say this with an example of something that is stated by the game to use their own silk

[foggy stratus]

There's also Snare Setter.

"Trap-setting tool of the Weavers. Lays a Silk rune that ignites when foes come into contact.
Uses shell canisters and the wielder's own Silk."

[stray grove]

And that’s how Hornet uses it not how it’s intended to be used generically

[stray grove]

First one says nothing about it using their own silk and is also ancient

Second one is how Hornet uses it, not the only way it can be used

That’s meta text

[lyric rose]

“The wielder’s own silk” implies the ammo of whoever uses it has to be locally sourced

[near jasper]

I just found I think the only example in game of a "speech quirk" in needolin dialogue

[near jasper]

https://hollowknight.wiki/w/Servitor_Boran#Needolin_Dialogue

[foggy stratus]

Silkshot is from the same Weavenest as the lore tablet you cited.

[stray grove]

That is meta text, Hornet who is able to absorb Silk from various other sources uses it this way but there’s no reason why the canisters couldn’t be pre filled with silk

[stray grove]

Correct, hence why it conveys that the Weavers were working to design technology that didn’t require them to expend their own waning life energy

The silkshot serves no purpose if they had infinite silk because their own spells are as if not more potent

And there was nothing to combat

[lyric rose]

From who? Melania up in Trump Tower?

[near jasper]

Didnt the weavers litterally find a way to create infinite silk generation for Eva

[spark valve]

tbf it is cheaper

[foggy stratus]

So they're talking about how their silk is running out, but are making shit that uses it in the same place its being talked about? Why not design a normal gun that doesn't need Silk to operate if its waning?

[stray grove]

Either way it’s the same objective

[stray grove]

fym “normal gun” we’re just saying shit now
It’s a fantasy setting the technology is magic

[spark valve]

designing weapons that are silk efficient would help them conserve silk long term

even if they don't cost nothing to operate

[lyric rose]

Or just raid Karmelita’s condo and take her Can Openers

[stray grove]

And the fact that this was their objective indeed implies they were running out of it

As they say… in the tablet…

[lyric rose]

Rosary Cannon. It’s a machine gun. That fires rosaries.

[stray grove]

Holy whataboutism

[foggy stratus]

The Roasry Cannon is basically a gatling gun made from a repurposed rosary stringing machine. You don't think they couldnt find someway to make that more effective and less expensive to fire?

[stray grove]

Yes

[lyric rose]

Like having it shoot shell shards

Which are already needed in the silkshot?

[spark valve]

maybe they could, maybe they even did this shit was left in a weavenest they would've continued developing things after building the citadel

[near jasper]

Why did the Weavers even need a gun

[stray grove]

It was cheaper than casting spells

[lyric rose]

Buckshot Roulette

Also Mossbag predicted Silkshot.

[stray grove]

Anyway yeah Weavers are the only Soul users who can only use their magic with their own life force
Silk is soul and we’re told their silk was waning which is to say their life force was waning which given the only surviving weaver is the one who had her silk bound implies that the reason for this was them overusing their own life energy and having no way to replenish it

[near jasper]

Weavers making a weapon for when theyre out of silk inside the place locked by a door that needs silk to open

[spark valve]

idk why it would be hard to understand that weavers would make weapons that use less silk than their spells to fight with in preparation for a lack of abundant silk

[near jasper]

[spark valve]

it's a prototype

[sinful nimbus]

why are the weavers bums

[stray grove]

Yeah it’s not the end-all

[spark valve]

hornet gets it from the top secret lab

[sinful nimbus]

all their aura lost in ss

[near jasper]

They're stupid

[lyric rose]

Then why wouldn’t they just let the conductors run the citadel while they snack on the threads from time to time, thus making them immortal?

[sinful nimbus]

except for the soul elevator

[foggy stratus]

Or waning means their silk just isnt cutting it anymore and they need a more efficient way to use it. Not that they're running out of it.

[stray grove]

Literally not how that works but ok

[sinful nimbus]

that was kinda tuff it went harder than PK's soul rockets sorry not sorry

[spark valve]

aid us when our silk has waned they foresaw it it wasn't a 'oh gee gosh we need to upscale'

[stray grove]

Why isn’t it cutting it anymore? Why would they need a more efficient way to use their silk? Maybe because it was running out?

[spark valve]

also like they all died except the one whose silk was bound useless in her shell 🥴

[foggy stratus]

And again if they're running out of it why are they still using it at all. Why not develop tools that don't use the limited silk supply of Weavers?

[stray grove]

They probably DID

[near jasper]

Weavers litterally have a way to make artificial infinite silk generation

[stray grove]

Stop begging the question

The silkshot is a prototype

[lyric rose]

If they need all that silk to survive, and the citadel is sustaining Gramma’s slumber, why not go harvest from the citadel from time to time?

[foggy stratus]

Source?

[stray grove]

Because that’s just not how any of that works do you even understand the timeline of the game

[sinful nimbus]

harvesting GMS doesn't work out

[spark valve]

... where you find it lol

[sinful nimbus]

def would not be smart on the weavers part

[stray grove]

This isn’t that complicated gang

[lyric rose]

We really derailed from me trying to propose widow maskless brainwashing theory

[stray grove]

Weapon that’s more silk efficient that says “hey we need to make weapons that are more efficient for once our silk runs out”
All the weavers are dead except the one who had her silk bound useless
Silk is soul and soul is life energy

???

[lyric rose]

There’s a living weaver in the Weaver’s Den

[stray grove]

Your theory got discredited and never made any sense to begin with

[foggy stratus]

I find nothing referring to it as a prototype so far.

[lyric rose]

Not to be confused with the Beast’s Den, which is the den of a weaver

[near jasper]

Not for long :3

[sinful nimbus]

Weavenests were all prototypes to deal with GMS

[stray grove]

Use your eyes

It’s a Weavenest

[foggy stratus]

Ah yes, my favorite Weavenest. Silkshot.

[sinful nimbus]

Silkspeed Anklets are "experimental anklets of weaver make" for example and they're not fast enough to open the gate so we know they're prototypes
Snare Setter is explicitly a prototype

[foggy stratus]

Also needlessly fucking rude.

[lyric rose]

Weavenest Silkshot

[stray grove]

grok where can I find the Silkshot in Silksong

[lyric rose]

MURGLIN

even the name sounds gross

fits in Bilewater

[stray grove]

Full name being WEAVENEST Murglin

[sinful nimbus]

tf did Karn do

[spark valve]

the silkshot is like sitting on the desk of the weaver who was making it the context seems pretty clear

[near jasper]

Die

[lyric rose]

K e r n

[sinful nimbus]

Weavenest with literally nothing in it good job guys

You really showed GMS with that one

[foggy stratus]

Yes, because everything sitting on the desk of its maker is a prototype.

[lyric rose]

Idk what Kern did but he sure didn’t El Sanders

[spark valve]

it's got manufacturing equipment on the workbench

it's literally the atomizer 3000 sitting with a big mechanical arm holding a wrench above it

[foggy stratus]

That just means it was being made, not that it was a prototype.

[spark valve]

ts did not meet mass production blud

[lyric rose]

What are the canisters even for if the original shoots a friggin’ laser?

[stray grove]

Read that again slowly

[lyric rose]

Goteem

[foggy stratus]

Are you being intentionally dense?

[lyric rose]

Point RotK

[lyric rose]

You know who else is dense?

[stray grove]

It was by your own admission “being made” and we find an unfinished version Hornet doesn’t swipe it from a production line

[lyric rose]

https://tenor.com/view/muscle-man-you-know-who-else-my-mom-regular-show-funny-gif-9101122073397073314

[foggy stratus]

My mom?

[lyric rose]

https://tenor.com/view/regular-show-my-mom-shirt-swing-trash-talk-bye-gif-5037821

[stray grove]

Also we know what the Weavenests are and the context from the tablet doesn’t leave much to the imagination

[foggy stratus]

That shit was fucking broken, not unfinished.

[near jasper]

Fact: gms elevated absolom during her emo phase, thats why she called her that

[lyric rose]

Or maybe it was unfinished AND broken

[foggy stratus]

Use YOUR FUCKING EYES ON THAT ONE.

[spark valve]

🪞

[sinful nimbus]

Weavers studying void 🥀

[lyric rose]

silk put 2 picoliters of void in her hairspray that day

[sinful nimbus]

How else could they hope to see their pale kin consumed with such insatiable efficiency

[stray grove]

ShamanGPT ass line btw

[lyric rose]

Smh they shoulda just ate her

[spark valve]

ss has enough plot holes as is no need to invent ones that don't exist

[foggy stratus]

It doesnt say "Remains of an unfinished Weaver implement, broken and inoperable". It just says "Remains of an ancient Weaver implement, broken and inoperable"

[near jasper]

Hornet calling the tool that only looked to need to be glued together ruined and broken

[lyric rose]

Implant?

[sinful nimbus]

Do u think it needs to explicitly say its unfinished for us to know that 🥀

[stray grove]

Do you need it to be explicitly stated that it wasn’t being mass produced

[lyric rose]

Did they stick guns in their chest as breast implants?

[spark valve]

the fact that it's sitting on the designer's workbench is pretty clear visual storytelling

[foggy stratus]

What mass production would the Weavers have for all like 30 of them?

[stray grove]

Sorry I missed the 30 ruined tools in the background my bad gng

[stray grove]

Also like the tablet

This isn’t hard to follow

[spark valve]

yes which establishes this is where they're designing new tools

[lyric rose]

Silk may be abusive but she has good cartoon taste tho

Given one of the weavers was named Atla

(Avatar the Last Airbender)

At least they would’ve had some good mid 2000s nicktoons while they played harps for eternity

[stray grove]

Anyway Weavers the most washed soul users in the series fr

[sinful nimbus]

Yea it has to be a prototype for the tablet to make sense idk why we're getting caught up on this

[stray grove]

Imagine having no way to channel external soul lmao

[lyric rose]

Imagine having to kill people to fire an orb

[spark valve]

I mean they can do it

[stray grove]

Me when I cast the spell that takes five years off my lifespan

[lyric rose]

This post was made by Soul Master

[near jasper]

Its kinda crazy that Weavers lived through the entire creation of the citadel and most of hallownest's history before dying

[stray grove]

Then maybe they should’ve

[sinful nimbus]

Gifted soul powers from Pale King minus

[stray grove]

I don’t think they can

[sinful nimbus]

Why didn't the beacon transform everyone into soul wizards

[stray grove]

Hornet is a special case that’s a Wyrm thing

[stray grove]

With great power comes great responsibility

PK understood that

[sinful nimbus]

OK but it would be kinda tuff

[stray grove]

Weavers did not use their power responsibly

[spark valve]

silklight 💀

[sinful nimbus]

Hallownest is the land of gods where even the common bug can become a great magician

silklight 😭

[stray grove]

fr just say soul

[near jasper]

Weavers telling their 2 year old Daughter to throw away 10 years of her life on a silk trick

[stray grove]

I love glazing my goat but I also don’t think PK could do that

Weavers were altered on a genetic level using GMS’ divine life energy

[lyric rose]

soul wizard oppression

[stray grove]

Beacon is just a smart beam

[lyric rose]

He took their cogs for himself

[sinful nimbus]

Oh c'mon he had infinite soul to genetically alter the bugs

[spark valve]

sword conjuring goes hard anyways

[sinful nimbus]

Pale Nails 😍

[stray grove]

Yeah I guess he could have probably done that in theory

[lyric rose]

Do the weavers not have infinite soul generation through silk hearts?

[sinful nimbus]

He could've saved Soul Sanctum bro

[stray grove]

Maybe a more militant Wyrm would have

[sinful nimbus]

He did NOTHING

[stray grove]

Imagine using your beacon to create a vast army of intensely loyal soul wizards

[sinful nimbus]

Why would they have silk hearts

[stray grove]

Nothing would stand in your way

[lyric rose]

How do they make silk

[sinful nimbus]

new OC

[sinful nimbus]

using their soul

[stray grove]

But PK had no interest in such things and if the goal is to make an eternal kingdom it’s probably better if the general populace can’t fire lasers

[spark valve]

weakest pk attack

[lyric rose]

Also the description of silk heart says hornet “regained the ability to produce silk”

[sinful nimbus]

Woah you mean the ideal civilization doesn't consist of everyone possessing the means of lethal force

[stray grove]

That’s not what it was about 🥀

[sinful nimbus]

What have we been doing

[stray grove]

So true

[stray grove]

What no I never said that

🦅 🇺🇸 🍔

It would be so easy to take over the world as a wyrm

And apparently the evil genes make them want to do that

[spark valve]

you can't bring armies very far

[stray grove]

You can if you can teleport shit

[lyric rose]

https://m.youtube.com/shorts/FU6N6cue31U

[spark valve]

you can't bring em out of the beacon most likely

[stray grove]

A Wyrm could move their armies through the dream expanse or wtv also if the army consisted of soul wizards they’d be able to fly and teleport and shit

[stray grove]

The beacon might be movable we don’t know

[lyric rose]

The Beacons… They Weakens

• Farcette, The Jewel Of Faramore YTP

[sinful nimbus]

Beacon isn't stationary if you never metamorphosize surely

[stray grove]

It might just not exist though

[sinful nimbus]

Big dragon commanding an army of wizards

Ripping apart entire cities and sending them into the dream expanse

Teleporting void on top of lesser monarchs

So tuff

[stray grove]

I like the idea that the original body determines the location of the beacon

In which case you would assume it would only manifest once the Wyrm had found a suitable location to settle down and transform

But that doesn’t necessarily have to be the case and for the sake of the hypothetical let’s say it doesn’t

[spark valve]

He could teleport in with the gks and level Pharloom but actually governing it afterwards would mean needing an occupation force

[stray grove]

Who said anything about governing it

[lyric rose]

He only got the beacon in one kingdom at a time

[stray grove]

Just teleport everyone back to Hallownest and let them live there

[spark valve]

Is it really conquering the kingdom otherwise

[lyric rose]

Um, cultural erasure anyone?

[stray grove]

Who would want to live in Pharloom

Yeah I’d really miss the slave factory

[lyric rose]

as it is today

[spark valve]

That would cause overpopulation for no reason

[stray grove]

Just make the kingdom bigger

[spark valve]

Pharloom was pretty bad at every point we know of

[lyric rose]

Verdania was lit before it went to sh*t tho

[sinful nimbus]

Hornet's rule will be different

[stray grove]

So true

She is unlike her pale kin

[sinful nimbus]

Just kidding she remains a daughter of hallownest and will go back there to do uh

something

THK sequel bait

[lyric rose]

It will be… ass because she eats silk and becomes pharloom’s new dommy mommy

[stray grove]

PK could just build more homes and shit

He had the infrastructure stuff down

[lyric rose]

Daughter of Hallownest becomes Mother of Pharloom

In a sense

[stray grove]

SS fan try to be normal challenge

[lyric rose]

City of tears is pretty dang populated

[stray grove]

I mean obviously it’s the capital

It wasn’t overpopulated

They also closed the doors and didn’t let anyone leave for a while

[lyric rose]

Ha. North Korea.

[stray grove]

The kingdom is also ruined

[lyric rose]

A broken clock is right more than a clock that’s off by six hours

One’s not working, the other is working against common interests

Also, did white palace reach into the City of Tears?

Dunno how much the dream location matches the size but that building is TALL

[sinful nimbus]

just the cavern its in presumably

[lyric rose]

big boi

[stray grove]

Why would the palace extend into the city

[lyric rose]

I dunno

It’d be funny if there’s just a giant random hole in the background where it vanished

[sinful nimbus]

why are there fake stars in the palace grounds

is PK supposed to be moon themed

corny

[lyric rose]

How else do you fight the sun

[sinful nimbus]

How else?

How else could we hope to trap one of your pale kin? Or see her consumed with such insatiable efficiency?

[stray grove]

“It’s one long night” ahhhhhh

Dawn shall break 🥶 🔥 💪

I don’t think he’s meant to be moon themed but it would be kinda tuff tbh

I mean GMS is kinda moon themed

[foggy stratus]

Me when i:

[stray grove]

The early bird catches the wyrm

[foggy stratus]

Craw*

"Then the Wyrm turns the early craw into a bucket of SFC(Soul Fried Craw)"

[spark valve]

how to make this about the cool ass swan I saw today

[stray grove]

Cool ass swan is a tautology

Maybe the first light is a swan higher being

[spark valve]

it's for emphasis

[hoary sparrow]

the map looks bigger looking at a pic than in the game 😭

[thorn quest]

white palace i think

is added

i know POP anywhere

[candid linden]

can the infection overpower the haunting

[craggy smelt]

maybe - the plasmium infected enemies don't seem to be haunted, at least

[exotic pendant]

it's hard to say whether or not common beasts are haunted or they're just naturally aggressive

it's a maybe

because every enemy can be temporarily stunned by needolin

[spiral valley]

is the everbloom the same thing as the delicate flower back from hk?

[craggy smelt]

yes

though it's one pulled from Hornet's memories, rather than grown by the Grey Mourner

[echo prawn]

did hornet have a mate? I was reading great conchfly entry in that she say something like i wanted to find a partner once too but none of my mates could live long enough.

[void patrol]

Looks like it

[steep urchin]

i would say so bcz the rediance is more powerfull than him

[foggy fractal]

To pair with another is a base instinct, and one that brings some bugs great joy. I once sought similar union, but of my own mates none could match my lifespan.

yes, though she probably stopped due to the mentioned outliving of said mates

[whole holly]

There is a 1 in 249 chance that Sea of sorrow releases today!

[frank dove]

Prob hive knight

[foggy stratus]

Hornet said that all of her prior mates are dead.

[frank dove]

Hive knight is dead

Infection can possess dead people too? Or is that just haunting

[foggy stratus]

Just because Hive Knight is infected does not mean Hive Knight is dead.

[foggy stratus]

It can possess coprses.

[frank dove]

So he could be, but people pointed out from journal entries and her tools they prob knew each other

And if hornet knew vespa when she was hornet's size

Hive knight would be really old

Ok wait nvm, vespa has those attacks too in her cut battle

[graceful willow]

Hello!

[thorn quest]

hello

could the knight inhabbit a soulless human body

[foggy stratus]

No

[low oracle]

Hornet doesn't grow more than she already has, idk the context but you should never apply human logic to this game, it's always extremely misleading and often incorrect.

[thorn quest]

what makes the vessels they have so special

[foggy stratus]

The Void inhabited it.

The Void could hollow out a human corpse, but TK can't inhabite it.

[thorn quest]

yeah, didnt we early say the shade can change vessels

[foggy stratus]

What?

[thorn quest]

earlier

oh no wrong lore

[graceful grail]

Think about it, its releaseing on the weekend.

[whole holly]

yea

[graceful grail]

Thats actually a 1/35 that its this particular week

[whole holly]

team cherry said there will be announcement

[foggy fractal]

does it have to be a weekend

[graceful grail]

When were the hollow knight dlcs released??

Weekends are also better for that juicy first day release so almost everyone can do it

[near jasper]

It has to be a weekend or else too many people take days off work to play Silksong

[graceful grail]

Collapsed economy 😭

[foggy fractal]

Hidden Dreams 3rd August 2017
The Grimm Troupe 26th October 2017
Lifeblood 20th April 2018
Godmaster 23rd August 2018

[trail wagon]

"we take no part in Hallownest's perpetuation" said Vespa, thinking "this is typa shi will happen if we welcome the PK"

https://youtube.com/shorts/ol92aF9XIBw?si=LvcCYdkjki26eN58

[near jasper]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1402002414630076607/1497969542066868284/Tumblr_l_53365358138482.gif

[twin dragon]

silksong fixes its narrative in 3 dlcs trust

[whole holly]

i think it might be early autumn, but i would have been happy if it was middle of summer

[graceful grail]

• Hidden Dreams — 3 August 2017: Thursday
• The Grimm Troupe — 26 October 2017: Thursday
• Lifeblood — 20 April 2018: Friday
• Godmaster — 23 August 2018: Thursday

Thursday and Friday

Lifeblood is an outlier for being both early in the year and on a friday

[foggy fractal]

tbf lifeblood was very small relatively

[whole holly]

do you think Sea of Sorrows will be as well

[whole holly]

not even related to Lifeblood

[graceful grail]

Nah, probably august for sos

Tbh

[twin dragon]

ts is like silksong having void out of nowhere

[whole holly]

i assume but

[trail wagon]

Trans búgé

[whole holly]

silksong should have silk and song, instead we got 50% void, 45% silk and 5% song

[twin dragon]

bullshit

[foggy fractal]

act 3 is not 50% 😭

[graceful grail]

Nah, the OST Rocks

[whole holly]

???

[twin dragon]

we get 50% silk, 30% song and 20% void

[whole holly]

i meant in-game interactions

[twin dragon]

there is a lot of song but not gameplay wise

[graceful grail]

Needolin…

[whole holly]

i mean gameplay wise

[twin dragon]

void also just affects some enemies

so its all silk

and a lil bit of needolin stuff

[whole holly]

i mean yeah, but how many times do you have to use, Dream Nail has more content

[whole holly]

they should have LET me write Act 3

[twin dragon]

no

they should let ME

write a3

[whole holly]

i am actually auditioning, wish me luck

[trail wagon]

Wdym out of nowhere brosalihni

[near jasper]

They should let 500 monkeys with typewriters write act 3

[whole holly]

how would you write it???

[trail wagon]

Why is this not a response

[graceful grail]

Did anyone think the message in red memory was.. kinda. Kinda Mid??

[trail wagon]

I was responding to "void out of nowhere"

[twin dragon]

idfk how to lead from there

[whole holly]

i mean i prefer birthplace memory but it wasn't bad, come on

[twin dragon]

ill have to think

[twin dragon]

Its not important to the lore its not an established element that has relevance throughout it

[twin dragon]

you deadass?

[whole holly]

start with Sherma's character

[twin dragon]

sherma finishes his arc in act 2

[near jasper]

How is songclave even meant to not collapse in like 3 months

[whole holly]

they responded!! omg i am intern at Team Cherry headquerters

[twin dragon]

No you weren't deadass

[near jasper]

When does zoteboat release

[edgy sentinel]

collapse as in as a society, or collapse as in fall into the citadel?

[whole holly]

i am, currently working on Sea of Sorrows(named Zoteboat internally)

[twin dragon]

nuh u

[whole holly]

we liked developing Zoteboat so much that we decided to make it separate game

[whole holly]

prove me wrong

[twin dragon]

i did

[near jasper]

Mostly the latter

[edgy sentinel]

fair enough

[whole holly]

i am literally working on Sea of Sorrows and i wrote Act 4

[twin dragon]

truly

im working on act 8

[trail wagon]

Well I would say it's established through the hk lore in general, but honestly I have a bit of a problem with anticipation in Silksong as well

[twin dragon]

Yeah theres no buildup

[trail wagon]

Like we don't really get to even know what kind of being there is at the top of the citadel

[near jasper]

Its true nubbie was employee of the month

Its true nubbie was employee of the month

[whole holly]

where Radiance and Grand Mother Silk are resurrected and team up???

[whole holly]

why did you send it twice?

[twin dragon]

This is foreshadowed and implied a LOT

gms has shit ton of foreshadowing

[near jasper]

"higher being ™"

[twin dragon]

the void doesnt

[near jasper]

:)

[trail wagon]

And honestly by the time we got there she kinda looked a bit random imo

[twin dragon]

gms has more foreshadowing than radiance ffs

[whole holly]

trueeeee

maybe you should rewrite act 3 after all nubbie. less void, less plasmium, more sorrows

[trail wagon]

I mean the fact there's SOMETHING yeah, but what specifically - not really. Also imo she doesn't feel like a monarch of a kingdom at all

[near jasper]

Eva

[twin dragon]

That's because she was usurped a long time ago

[near jasper]

The silk cocoon litterally fucking everywhere

[twin dragon]

gms is foreshadowed by the haunting, the silk cocoon sigil being everywhere, weavenest atla, weavers existing at all, hornet having several dialogues mentioning a higher force hunting her etc etc

[whole holly]

GMS fits her role very well, she is concealed truth behind the system

[twin dragon]

the void is kinda there

[trail wagon]

Well, I'm aware of that and I understand the lore subtext, but in terms of the foreshadowing imo it kinda works against it

[twin dragon]

and we didnt even know shamans were into it till silksong itself

[near jasper]

The silk heart dialogue

[twin dragon]

No, not really imo, she also had it coming for herself

[trail wagon]

I mean yeah, I guess it makes sense. Most of act 3 is a bit random

[twin dragon]

I would make act 3 gms just breaking the snare and having hornet herself ensnared

[trail wagon]

"oh wow now it turns out the Daughter of three queens is actually true"

[twin dragon]

n there would be a memory sequence for hornet akin to red memory without the everbloom bullshit

[trail wagon]

Okay but why really?

[twin dragon]

I think that's neat thematically and it fits into the narrative but it breaks the canon

And the rest of a3 is gms just spreading chaos throughout the entire kingdom

trying to regain strength

[trail wagon]

I'm almost 100% convinced it's pure fan service for people like me who were crying at this moment because I felt like something I've been waiting for for years has finally been given to me

[twin dragon]

Yeah

its fanservice

Honestly act 3 with how it is can be good if they polish some dialogues and aspects of it

which they absolutely can

[sinful nimbus]

When I saw the sprite for the stag station sign I burst out into tears 🥹

[trail wagon]

I don't even really know why it has to be there narratively

[twin dragon]

like hk was quite different from the current hk even without considering dlcs

[sinful nimbus]

HK always had a good narrative though and if anything the DLCs detracted from it

[trail wagon]

I don't feel like showing Hallownest before plague would make it less emotional and narratively climactic

[sinful nimbus]

(Specifically Godhome)

[trail wagon]

Plague, god

[twin dragon]

To finally break the cycle

[trail wagon]

Infection

[twin dragon]

of opression

that plagued pharloom

[twin dragon]

another rebrand i see?

they caught you again chop chop

Grimm was neat though just a little side story

[sinful nimbus]

That's what snared silk does and its fine narratively void aside

[trail wagon]

Huh?

[sinful nimbus]

Everything else is kinda random fanservice

[twin dragon]

The void is fine if it had a larger role to play in the story

And john snail shamans retcons

[sinful nimbus]

Its kinda boring

[twin dragon]

It doesnt play quite the same way it does in hk

[sinful nimbus]

have you ever seen bell eater? bell eater betty. https://bullofheavendc.bandcamp.com/album/290-two-legged-tigers-and-crocodiles

[near jasper]

Bell eater is weird

[twin dragon]

Im gonna have this on the background

[sinful nimbus]

Its truly beautiful

[twin dragon]

it sounds interesting

Act 3 should've focused more on old hearts omds

and pharloom's past

so washing it all away feels more impactful

[sinful nimbus]

old hearts are good concepually

[near jasper]

The choices for optional wishes in act 3 are weird

[twin dragon]

old hearts if they were a somethingburger

Maybe they js had the void there to build upon it with the steel stuff

i really hope this is the case and the future me stays satisfied with this assumption being true

[twin dragon]

Why does this turn into random bs over time

[sinful nimbus]

its art

do you think that UFOs can go underwater 🗣️

[foggy fractal]

underwater?

sea of sorrow?

[sinful nimbus]

is lifeblood beast an alien

[foggy fractal]

haha maybe

[twin dragon]

the instrumental part is very nice

the instrumental in general is very nice tbf

[whole holly]

they just need more lore, like Nyleth, she had no foreshadowing or anything

[twin dragon]

yeah and the lore could be expanded with fully fleshed out locations

[foggy fractal]

maybe in a dlc

[twin dragon]

old pharloom... one day...

[covert night]

peak

[fading shard]

I really liked liked that though

[edgy nebula]

theres nothing wrong with the concept

but the execution is very flawed

[fading shard]

Honestly my problem with the red memory and silksong in general is that we didn't get to see enough stuff from hallownest

or references to it

because everything we lack regarding pharloom is the timeline

[edgy nebula]

act 3 is just a hollow knight nostalgiafest

[fading shard]

hallownest on the other hand, whilst having a rather clear timeline had a ton of information and mysteries left unsolved

[fading shard]

we get the red memory and that's it

[edgy nebula]

snail shamans, void, tk, lifeblood, hornet rederences the infection

[fading shard]

we literally deal with lifeblood in act 1 and 2

that was built up

so idk what you're talking about

[edgy nebula]

it's far more prevalent in a3

[fading shard]

nothing on the colloseum of fools, nothing on the blackwyrm, nothing on the pale court of the five great knights (well yet anyhow) nothing on the moth tribes history, nothing on the deepnest king (something that SHOULD have been in silksong since he literally get's mentioned a singular time in hollow knight randomly)

and more

[fading shard]

I am glad lifeblood is getting some attention in silksong

though I think they are going in a bit of a strange route for it

as it being in someways dangerous and parasitic and mystical

isn't something out of the blue for it

[echo prawn]

there was a deepnest king?

[fading shard]

but it suddenly doing whateve the christ happened in the wormways in act 3 is a bit much

[fading shard]

we get a singular mention o his existence

"This border bounds the twisting, scratching things. Their dead sire, once of honoured caste. Their sealed mother, but the common beast."

again idk why they even bothered making him a thing if they aren't going to expand on him

[fading shard]

let alone why they had him be mentioned once like this

with no other acknowledgement in the game of his existence being just strange

[echo prawn]

i kinda wanted more lore on few guys in the spirit glade, like hundred nail warrior, karina, Noo (i forgot his full name), thistlewind

[foggy fractal]

we'll probably never get more on those guys given their nature as kickstarter characters

[echo prawn]

ohh. i didnt know that. Thistle wind was cool though.

[tiny gulch]

Hello I'm new here I joined after falling down a rabbit hole while trying to figure out what's up with greyroot. Is there a good place to go to learn about the root species itself? It's hard to search for since it keeps giving me stuff about whispering root

[sinful nimbus]

Roots as a species aren't really fleshed out like that (and it seems to be a loosely defined term for beings that are similar to trees/tree roots)

[echo prawn]

i hope it gets dlc

[sinful nimbus]

Greyroot and White Lady are seemingly different species for example, assuming both of them aren't just one off anomalies

But the wiki has good writeups on the lore for both of those and has all their dialogue

https://hollowknight.wiki/w/White_Lady
Wiki isn't canon but they're more or less correct here and cite dialogue n such

[echo prawn]

i thought white lady was wyrm too, is she just pale being?

[sinful nimbus]

Yeah she's a pale being and also kinda her own thing

[foggy fractal]

all wyrms are dead no?

[sinful nimbus]

Wyrms are giant serpentine creatures that metamorphosize/reincarnate into smaller forms to rule kingdoms

[foggy fractal]

something something bardoon dialogue

[sinful nimbus]

This falling ash is moult. The Wyrm's corpse decaying. Endless. Rmm... Serene. Sad.
With its like gone, the world is smaller.

You can read this as all wyrms being dead but its also plausible that he's just talking about their large serpent forms

Hence "the world is smaller" as wordplay cuz they were gargantuan

[edgy nebula]

bardoon also says wyrms dont necessarily die right

[echo prawn]

i thought he was saying about the corpse down below, not all wyrms

[sinful nimbus]

He says "its like"

[edgy nebula]

given pk kinda did die so idk if that has merit

[sinful nimbus]

He's talking about how the serpent form "died" and became the Pale King

This ashen place is grave of Wyrm. Once told, it came to die. But what is death for that ancient being? More transformation methinks.
This failed kingdom is product of the being spawned from that event.

[edgy nebula]

ahh ok

[foggy fractal]

I wonder how Bardoon even knows this stuff

[sinful nimbus]

Kinda helps to read it as "More [like] transformation methinks"

[edgy nebula]

hes epic

[tiny gulch]

I've got an inkling of a theory that greyroot and white lady are the same parasitic species that exist only to latch on to a variety of hosts until their host either dies from the parasite or is a higher/pale being whereupon it'll take over

[echo prawn]

it speaks like low lvl bug yet he knows you are trying to invade his mind when you dream nail him.

[sinful nimbus]

He also comments on void heart and the dream realm he's just in tune with the magics fr

[sinful nimbus]

I've thought of it too but White Lady reproducing with PK conventionally kinda throws a wrench in that

[echo prawn]

doesnt he says something like we have become higher than wyrm when we have void heart?

[sinful nimbus]

Yea

[edgy nebula]

honestly why didnt white lady and pk team up to smite radiance? same with the old hearts jumping gms

theres probably an explanation but i feel like wl and pk combined are stronger than rad

[foggy stratus]

The guy can also tell when you dream nail him.

[sinful nimbus]

Rad needs Void Heart to be killed she also needs to be trapped in a dream so she can't just leave elsewhere when she gets in danger

GMS is stronger than the hearts straight up

[tiny gulch]

Yeah I see that makes sense

[echo prawn]

radiance was hiding i think. Only reason knight managed was probably radiance underestimated him.

[edgy nebula]

ic ic

[foggy stratus]

The only reasons TK can kill the Radiance is because it had Void Heart, something PK and WL couldn't get, and the Radiance had nowhere to run to(another part of the Dream Realm.)

[edgy nebula]

i suppose this is probably true i was just going off of the magic of the hearts being 1/3 the strength of a pale being

realistically the successors would be physically weaker though

[foggy stratus]

Why would that be?

[sinful nimbus]

I dunno if the potency of the hearts combined translates directly to combat prowess yeah

[foggy stratus]

If anything th3 successor to an Old Heart would be stronger since they're inheriting the prior strength of their predecessor.

[edgy nebula]

theyre mortal bugs that simply hold immense power, whether they can access every bit of that power is ambiguous and their ability to fight is also part of it

[foggy stratus]

I see little to no reason why they couldnt be able to access it all.

[echo prawn]

i kinda hoped there was an ending associated with grimm and radiance. since nightmare and dreams seemed interlinked. so i was kinda hoping for it

[foggy stratus]

And someone like Karmalita relies solely on skill in her fight. Khann is the one who seems to use Old Heart magic in his fight.

[edgy nebula]

they can access it no doubt, but we dont know if they can use all of it or if their mortal bodies would be enough to combat gms

[edgy nebula]

karmelita summons bones from the floor

[foggy stratus]

In two attacks. All of Khann's attacks rely on seemingly Old Heart magic. And honestly it might be possible for her to use those bones outside of her domain.

[foggy stratus]

Karmalita is said by Hornet to be on her own level, which in turn places her around GMS' level.

[sinful nimbus]

Its said she had similar skill

Hornet still beats her cuz she's stronger

Hornet also isn't on GMS's level though she doesn't really beat her in Weaver Queen

[limpid summit]

I don’t think Karm is actually summoning the bones

They’re probably arena traps

[foggy fractal]

karmelita spikes got hella buffed

reveal trailer version looked like common enemy type attack 😭

[edgy nebula]

old hearts were all early gamr bosses theory

[foggy fractal]

I mean geographically yeah especially karm and khann
idk about nyleth though

[knotty prism]

that aint a theory, its practically a fact at this point

[covert night]

good they buffed it, they created their best boss design yet

[twin dragon]

karmelita? sure

nyleth is good and khann is aight

[foggy stratus]

Khann lowkey a disappointment.

[foggy fractal]

I'm sure his difficulty is that way because they accounted the tower beforehand

[twin dragon]

Like its not about difficulty for me

almost never is

is the fact that hes too simple

[foggy stratus]

They added the shortcut. I see little reason it should be that much of an easy fight.

[foggy fractal]

maybe they'll fix it in a dlc

that's gonna be my new catchphrase now

[sick tinsel]

why

it is because the bossfight easy ?

[foggy stratus]

He has some of the coolest lore and area of any old heart but his gauntlets are mrke challenging than him.

Correction, coolest potential lore and area of any old heart.

[sick tinsel]

true

but i mean

hes supposed to to be like that

hes more of an army general

not some god tier fighter

[foggy stratus]

"Hardened warrior lord of a bygone age, able to command the coral crust to his bidding."-Crust King Khann journal description

Hes a warrior lord.

I'd imagine he'd be a pretty solid fighter.

[foggy fractal]

what do we think will fix him

I feel like he's just too easy to dodge

[foggy stratus]

Better fight and more lore.

[sick tinsel]

probably with he team

his

[foggy fractal]

like from a gameplay perspective

god forbid tc tries to do lore

[sick tinsel]

maybe wed get an upgraded version in future dlc

its gonna be peak

[foggy fractal]

looking at you slabfly journal entries!

[foggy stratus]

Give him a scythe that uses coral as projectiles.

[foggy fractal]

why a scythe

[sick tinsel]

why scythe

[foggy stratus]

Aura.

[sick tinsel]

he aint grim reaper

give him a battle axe

[light verge]

all the spikes now do the shockwave thing from HK

[sick tinsel]

or a mace

[foggy fractal]

speaking of do any bosses in ss do the shockwave thing? might be just me misremembering but it was very common in hk and just gone in ss

[light verge]

iirc only the citadel clappers

[foggy stratus]

Closest two are Sharka and Seth.

Even then their all wonky.

[covert night]

turning the coolest subplot in the game into a gauntlet tower was the most disappointing thing

[light verge]

Shockwaves got overused in HK and TC prob recognized that

[foggy fractal]

maybe they'll make a comeback in dlc

[foggy stratus]

As such they removed all of them from Silksong and gave the closest thing to traditional Shockwave we see to a False Knight clone.

[covert night]

are we talking about this attack

[light verge]

Yes

[foggy stratus]

Yes.

[sick tinsel]

what are the chance we would see another vessel in further updates ?

[light verge]

Probably none

[foggy stratus]

Low.

[limpid summit]

Hopefully none

Besides THK

[light verge]

Hey apple

[limpid summit]

Apple

Wassup shal

[sick tinsel]

i dont really understand how it would change stuff since they dont speak

[fading shard]

apple egg how you doing

[foggy stratus]

Maybe we'll see a vessel that isnt a Vessel, ya know? Like Grimm.

[limpid summit]

I’m good abhiker how about you

[sick tinsel]

or a vassal

[foggy fractal]

😨

[foggy stratus]

"Despite the absence of his presence, you still feel a specter of ages long gone."

[limpid summit]

Pleasant orange

[fading shard]

doing alright

also on what horf was earlier talking about, there's also the fact that the pale king had no means to actually meet the radiance to fight her

[fading shard]

he didn't have void heart, but he also didn't have the dream nail, nor did he have the radiance contained in a singular spot in which he could just show up in to fight her in

[sick tinsel]

skill issue ?

[foggy fractal]

😨

[sick tinsel]

was it a dream

[foggy fractal]

a forboding presence...