sk-lore

[stray grove]

I mean yeah it would be even better in the way he foresaw which is what matters when considering the intent behind it

After SS I wonder if TC intended that

[foggy fractal]

idk TC's intentions probably change on the fly

[stray grove]

But like you can slander him all day PK genuinely never did anything wrong

[sinful nimbus]

Good thing Hornet never killed vessels for the greater good

That would just be unjustifiable

[floral quiver]

If Whiteward helps make the Citadel bad thanks to its pile of corpses, then the Kings pile of corpses helps make him not good.

[stray grove]

What Hornet did was worse because she actually knew they were sapient

PK didn’t

[sinful nimbus]

they're both fine

[stray grove]

They’re both fine yes

[limpid summit]

The whole game tells us that the citadel was bad we don’t need Whiteward

[stray grove]

But the double standard is weird

[limpid summit]

And the citadel didn’t have noble intentions

They just wanted to work the bugs to death and beyond

[sinful nimbus]

Y'all think Hornet has seen the horrors of sacrificed babies from her father and swung the other way

[limpid summit]

HK doesn’t tell us Hallownest was a bad kingdom that deserved to get blown up

[stray grove]

Hornet did bad things herself and WL did bad things and was completely forgiven

[sinful nimbus]

Requested by anonymous!

[spark valve]

something something hornet pro life thing

[sinful nimbus]

already made the joke 🐌

[spark valve]

oh I'm slow

[stray grove]

Snail

[foggy fractal]

snail village...

[spark valve]

is hollow knight pro life propaganda

[stray grove]

Ok but seriously why does Hornet hate PK

Is there a reason

[limpid summit]

Why do you think she hates PK

[spark valve]

she doesn't really

[foggy fractal]

is there a reason why hornet is racist towards slabflies

is she just racist

[spark valve]

she's a terrible person

[limpid summit]

I think she just feels bad for THK and it’s not like she’s gonna blame Rad

[stray grove]

Ok better question why does she slander him for shit he was successful at distance herself from him every chance she gets and wonder if he was running a secret underground slave factory

[foggy fractal]

exactly we need to cancel her

[stray grove]

maybe she doesn’t hate him but these are not things you think about someone you have any respect for

[sinful nimbus]

PK enslaved an entire species to milk gruz mothers 😔

[floral quiver]

He helped indoctrinate her into standing guard over a dead husk for centuries untold when she didn't have to for one.

This is something she very actively regrets doing.

[stray grove]

“Indoctrinate her” lol

[floral quiver]

Yes?

[sinful nimbus]

whole entire memory talking about how hornet was specifically raised to do what she wants 🥀

[stray grove]

PK probably never even spoke to her lame ass he was busy actually contributing to the kingdom while she hung around the hive like a fucking bum

[foggy fractal]

did pk even talk to hornet even once

[floral quiver]

She felt duty bound to gusrd her father's kingdom.

Where did that duty come from?

[stray grove]

Dunno not him though lmao

[limpid summit]

Her own devotion

You think that was him??

[sinful nimbus]

Strength enough that I may live to see a world better than our own, or to craft a world as I desire. That was the wish, of my mother, of my mentor, and of you...
wonder where it came from

[limpid summit]

He’s not one of her three moms

[foggy fractal]

secret fourth mom...

🤔

[floral quiver]

That was what her mothers wanted.

Note that she didn't end up doing that for long after hallownest was a corpse.

[limpid summit]

She literally did

[stray grove]

I imagine they must have interacted at least a few times but I’m not entirely sure and certainly don’t think they interacted extensively

[limpid summit]

She got captured from Hallownest

Who knows how long after HK

Probably not like too long

But still

She stayed

[stray grove]

It’s reductive to say she was “protecting her father’s kingdom”

[sinful nimbus]

citadel was in weaver era during HK :feels;

[floral quiver]

Then why does she now think that guarding a dying/dead kingdom isn't worth it?

[stray grove]

It wasn’t about him lol

[sinful nimbus]

character regression

[stray grove]

Oh no Hornet made a decision nobody forced her to make that she later regretted this is clearly PK’s fault

[limpid summit]

She became evil and lost all sense of duty

[sinful nimbus]

somehow PK got something to do with this

[spark valve]

she also no longer has any compassion

Foul creatures birthed into servitude. Their plight elicits no sympathy from me.

[foggy fractal]

😔

[stray grove]

Do you think PK said this after seeing Vessels

[limpid summit]

I have already stood sentinel for one dying land. That role... I will never play again.

This also doesn’t mean she regrets her job. She just doesn’t want the bugs to die

[foggy fractal]

so thats where hornet got it from!

[sinful nimbus]

frodo losing all pity

[limpid summit]

TRUE

[sinful nimbus]

now that was peak

[spark valve]

no he has a sense of compassion and felt bad for them

[limpid summit]

Bro TK save ussss

[stray grove]

No he’s evil and a fool and sucks at his job and also ran a secret slave market under his palace

[limpid summit]

That Weaver timeline needs to change

[spark valve]

they're never gonna fix it

[stray grove]

Why didn’t PK just sell the discarded vessels as slaves is he stupid

[limpid summit]

It literally implies Herrah helped create the Citadel that is so funny

[spark valve]

ok hornet chill

[sinful nimbus]

The Ritual plays itself out once more. We are like the notes in an old, old song. You and me. Mrmm.
Endless, repeating songs of sacrifice, of servitude. For the Ritual. For the troupe. For the Master.
Even this child was born into invisible chains. Mrmm. Its plight elicits no sympathy from me
ts was so tuff

[stray grove]

Could’ve put them to work building a second palace

[limpid summit]

I actually laughed at this

Thank you Star

The signs were there all along

[stray grove]

This made me chuckle

Good one

[limpid summit]

Master…are you too a slave? I don’t care

[floral quiver]

A misguided fool. Hornet never claims he's evil, just misguided and foolish and probably not worth following because of that.

[stray grove]

Misguided fool 🥀

[limpid summit]

Do not call me a fool

Simply call me a traitor

A beggar with a shining crown

[stray grove]

This made me laugh too

So true bestie

That was tuff you fell off so hard

[limpid summit]

Wdym

I have fire Silksong theories too

Also Xero proves he did capital punishment

[stray grove]

Now you’re yapping about sum “GMS sent Lace to turn off the Cogwork Core” bro

[sinful nimbus]

true

[spark valve]

no?

[sinful nimbus]

he was executed bro

[limpid summit]

In my dreams I would cut that plague with my nails, and then I turned my weapons upon the King.

Lingering dream of a fallen warrior. Executed for crimes against the King.

Bro he was chopped up for thought crimes I’m crine

[stray grove]

Xero was like infected

[limpid summit]

Evil PK

[spark valve]

attacking the king and getting murked by the secret service

[sinful nimbus]

he can't be perfect

[stray grove]

I think if you try to kill PK you deserve to be executed ngl

[limpid summit]

Ogrim probably chokeslammed him hard asf

[spark valve]

some midvincible shit

[limpid summit]

A life defined by tragedy and triumph. A death marred by sorrow and regret. A spirit burdened by sins and memories. Better to wander the world than be cursed with glory.

Wait why did he say this about death and spirit

Aren’t these quotes from life

[stray grove]

Could Ogrim do the viltrumite hand spear

[limpid summit]

Maybe this is about the Karaka

Totally

[spark valve]

bro he doesn't have to

[foggy fractal]

I mean he has claws no?

[foggy fractal]

right

[sinful nimbus]

Final words maybe

[stray grove]

Could he just cut someone in half

Would be tuff

[limpid summit]

Lingering dream of a fallen warrior. Travelled the world tending to those affected by the plague.

Why does Hu’s journal say the world here actually

[foggy fractal]

yeah he's pretty strong no?

[stray grove]

Berserker Ogrim going on a mad one

[spark valve]

he's a paladin

[stray grove]

He’s a Barbarian Ze’mer is a Paladin

[foggy fractal]

does ogrim have no haters

[limpid summit]

Marmu’s quote is now funny as hell

[spark valve]

I'm sure there's some joyless sop out there

[stray grove]

Isma Druid Dryya Fighter Hegemonk

Balanced party but a bit martial heavy

I guess PK has casting covered

[spark valve]

they're knights

and yeah pk is a divine soul sorc or whatever

level 30

[sinful nimbus]

WL telling Marmu to close her eyes before putting her down 😔

[limpid summit]

Galien would have been a tuff Ranger 💔

[floral quiver]

I like him but find him kinda generic. Does that count?

[limpid summit]

No

It doesn’t count

You still like him

[sinful nimbus]

You have to glaze him unconditionally

[stray grove]

He’d have a bunch of wizard levels too

Probably divination

[limpid summit]

I think the reason people like Ogrim so much is that we can’t smell him

[foggy fractal]

yeah that doesn't count you still like him afterall

[limpid summit]

I feel like we’d be more superficial if HK was scratch n sniff

[floral quiver]

I mean given the Pale King discussion here I would assume so.

[spark valve]

hornet probably wants to kill ogrim and his whole family

[limpid summit]

You can glaze PK conditionally

[stray grove]

PK would’ve actually had access to every school of magic arcane because he’s a scientist primal because he’s a dragon occult because he dabbles in shit like void and divine because he’s a deity

[sinful nimbus]

thank you firefox suggest 🗣️

[limpid summit]

He didn’t send PV over to solo Pharloom (so Silksong wouldn’t have to exist)

[near jasper]

Whats the topic rn

[limpid summit]

Me when beans beans gif

[foggy fractal]

we should go back to wingsmould entry discussion

[stray grove]

Ok question

[limpid summit]

Wingsmould is the biggest Mandela effect in HK

[stray grove]

Could Ogrim make a big dung drill

[limpid summit]

I never believed that

[sinful nimbus]

Isma... I miss.. I miss you...
chills

[limpid summit]

I told you my WD theory right

Or not theory

[foggy fractal]

with some time yeah why not

[limpid summit]

It’s pretty straightforward

WD is sort of like GPZ and Bretta leaving

[near jasper]

Depends on the dietary quality of the people in city of tears

But maybe

[sinful nimbus]

I can see it

[limpid summit]

In the sense that us beating him

My friends... I will protect our dear Kingdom. Have faith in me! We will all meet again. I promise it…

My King... I believe in you. I believe in Hallownest! My devotion will never falter...

My King... Hallownest will be reborn! Glorious and bright! Just as it always was...

My King... We will all be together once more...

How funny that I see you in my dreams too, little one. Your noble bearing reminds me of our dear King. When he returns, I'll ask him if you can become a Knight! What jolly adventures we will have...

[stray grove]

If Ogrim can swim through hardened dung like water he could probably swim through people fuck you gonna do when he just torpedoes through your abdomen

[sinful nimbus]

Man reading his dialogue I can only hear the hallownest vocalized performance

[limpid summit]

We’re genuinely beating the dreams out of him

[sinful nimbus]

that mod was so tuff I have to check it out again

[limpid summit]

He’s becoming less and less idealistic as we destroy him

Poor guy

[spark valve]

die? is this meant to be a hard question, mate?

[near jasper]

Why dont you just parry

[stray grove]

Id just parry him

Ok ok

[foggy fractal]

me and ogrim would be chill

[stray grove]

5GK free for all

Sly can join in

Who’s the last one standing

[foggy fractal]

no idea

I'm a hk larper

[sinful nimbus]

I swore I'd visit, but... my duties... my oath...
Why did he say that he'd visit Isma while also saying he would constantly guard the grove

Moron

[near jasper]

I think hegemol

[limpid summit]

Zemer

[sinful nimbus]

Ogrim def

[stray grove]

I think Hegemol too he probably has the most staying power

[limpid summit]

He stumbled over his words in front of her

Bro folded

[sinful nimbus]

Give Isma a few years and they'd have to fight through an entire Shellwood's worth of army

[limpid summit]

I like how all the actually fun HK discussions are about base game 💔💔

[stray grove]

It’s a free for all and having some fodder troops isn’t slowing anyone down

[sinful nimbus]

Grimm Troupe is kinda fun to talk about

[stray grove]

My money is still on Hegemol

[sinful nimbus]

Hidden Dreams too

[limpid summit]

No including DLC

Not Silksong is what I mean

[stray grove]

Ok who wins Ogrim or Troupe Master Grimm

[limpid summit]

Hmm

[foggy fractal]

sea of sorrow is fun to talk about

[limpid summit]

Teleporting is just so good

Seriously

[foggy fractal]

sky of happiness...

[near jasper]

I think Grimm

[limpid summit]

I am excited for sea of sorrows

[sinful nimbus]

The Citadel is kinda fun to talk about but there's not as much as random whimsical character moments to discuss which is unfortunate

[stray grove]

How about NKG vs PV

[limpid summit]

Gameplay wise

Lorewise we shall see

Hmm

I don’t know

Do you think we adhere to clan and master too much in removing the Grimms of their autonomy

[stray grove]

What autonomy bro

[limpid summit]

Like WL says that about the Grimm that literally has NMH inside it

I don’t think Grimm is as much of a puppet as a Grimmkin

[stray grove]

Grimm doesn’t even consider the Heart a separate being he refers to it as a part of himself

And I don’t think the actual Heart has a separate consciousness that’s divorced from him

[limpid summit]

Heart of the troupe

[stray grove]

He is the heart

[limpid summit]

But Grimmchild has a consciousness

[near jasper]

The nightmare heart would drop a really good charm for its last wish

[limpid summit]

Do you think it’s like overwritten

GC isn’t a robot

[stray grove]

It’s not overwritten GC’s consciousness is shared with the heart

It’s not separate it never was

[limpid summit]

That’s just so boring

[stray grove]

They all share a consciousness

[limpid summit]

I don’t think Brumms slave dialogue is meant to be read at face value correctly

[near jasper]

Do you ever Just regret sending a message while its getting sent

[stray grove]

It’s less boring if you think of the heart as having multiple personalities and being a bit of a drama queen

[limpid summit]

But it just loses its emphasis if he’s just wrong

Straight up wrong

[stray grove]

He’s not wrong

[limpid summit]

He is wrong

[stray grove]

No

[spark valve]

it's a slave to the ritual

[stray grove]

Grimm is a slave irrespective of whether or not he’s the heart

[limpid summit]

“Master are you too a slave” Grimm is like his arm

[stray grove]

The heart is a slave to the ritual itself

[limpid summit]

Yeah but what is he without the Heart

[stray grove]

He’s not talking about the heart

He’s talking about the ritual

[limpid summit]

I feel like he’s better analogous to the moth

S

Ohhhhh

I see what you’re saying

Look I’m goated so I didn’t do banishment

[stray grove]

I do like the idea of each Grimm being a bit different

The heart is dramatic we know this

It might change shit up every incarnation

[limpid summit]

If GT comes back

I know you’d roll your eyes

Would you be less or more satisfied if the game suggested it was our Grimmchild

[near jasper]

Why the hell Is my Discord being so weird with loading messages rn

[stray grove]

Instead of a circus maybe it’s like the grimm mafia or the grimm corporation

I think it would be funny

[limpid summit]

I just think they have to do something with Trobbio which is weird because being a GT janitor would be weird after two bosses

[near jasper]

The grinc©

[limpid summit]

I had an idea for a DLC cutscene without Hornet like how they did it at the beginning of HK where Sharpe got Sula’s bounty from a modern looking skyscraper

Wouldn’t it be interesting if the Masters had the most modern tech

Like Termina

Maybe not exactly like Termina

[stray grove]

PK downscale

[limpid summit]

I mean it’s not his fault

He would have gotten there eventually

[stray grove]

City of steel DLC and Grimm shows up but it’s the Grimm corporation and they’re some sleazy tech company whose latest product is the Grimm drone (it’s just GC)

[limpid summit]

I would like that

[near jasper]

https://tenor.com/view/silksong-hollow-knight-hollow-knight-silksong-twelfth-architect-twelfth-architect-silksong-gif-15611369255863440434

[limpid summit]

Is FotF supposed to be an idol of NMH

[stray grove]

I was joking but I do think changing the aesthetic would be a cool choice it could also make the fight more interesting

No

[limpid summit]

GT probably passed through Pharloom a few times

[limpid summit]

Yeah it shouldn’t be the exact same

At the very least Grimm would have to fight according to the SS playstyle

[finite wind]

This is a girl

[near jasper]

No thats a gif

[stray grove]

Instead of a performance the battle is a quality control test

The Grimmkin are like scientists scribbling shit down in the back instead of just observers

Grimm has like a laser

[near jasper]

What if grimmchild does stuff slightly differently based on your crest

[stray grove]

That would be fun too

[near jasper]

Is hornet technically pregnant for the entire game with a lobotomized evil baby after you get witch crest

[limpid summit]

That would be awesome

Not that

What kirb said

I don’t think witch crest is sentient

[near jasper]

I just noticed in both spots gms appears She's the only light source of the area

Neat

[dire lynx]

not pregnant, but yes, after she goes through the rite of rebirth shes carrying the twisted bud in her shell

[finite cave]

isnt it more likr an implant at that point though

like nexplanon or something

not in function but moreso how it's there

[idle mesa]

it is in a way pregnancy

[finite cave]

it's an empty little ball floating around

[idle mesa]

greyroot is using you to facilitate a child

[dire lynx]

no more than you having a tapeworm would be

[idle mesa]

a tapeworm wasnt placed inside me

[dire lynx]

...

[idle mesa]

silence but not denial

[finite cave]

i mean the alive one is a preganncy

that's the implication

[idle mesa]

its a child

[finite cave]

but im saying the dead one is more like an implant

[idle mesa]

that greyroot wanted us

to grow

[finite cave]

since its dead and just floating around now

[dire lynx]

because youre wrong

[idle mesa]

im not though

[finite cave]

we arent using our energy or anything to feed it

[dire lynx]

you are

[finite cave]

it isnt sapping our strength

[idle mesa]

you still have yet to say why

[dire lynx]

because its a parasite

[idle mesa]

its using hornets body

to grow it

[finite cave]

if it was a pregnancy after yarnaby extricated it it would still be feeding

[idle mesa]

thats

[finite cave]

but after extrication it's just floating about

because it's a little corpse

[idle mesa]

not a corpse it

"the little left inside me can be controlled" or sum

[dire lynx]

is a caterpillar pregnant when a wasp injects its larvae inside?

[finite cave]

yarnaby definitely minced that fucker😭😭

[dire lynx]

no its not

[finite cave]

i dont know why do wasps do that

thats weird

[idle mesa]

ig bro

[dire lynx]

food + protection at the same time

[finite cave]

gross

[dire lynx]

no it is still alive, just weak enough for hornet to control

[idle mesa]

mhm

[dire lynx]

And yet, the parasite does seem to have been... unbound somewhat. Whatever remnant still lingers in my shell feels calmed, enough for me to claim its power as my own.

[idle mesa]

yep

im no longer as pregnant its chill now

[finite cave]

yeah it's not alive enough to feed it's for all intents and purposes a corpse

[dire lynx]

was never pregnant

[idle mesa]

sure

[finite cave]

okay not biologically but the implication is pregnancy

[idle mesa]

it very much is

[dire lynx]

no, its just pacified, its still very much alive

[finite cave]

the bud latches onto her insides and violently saps her energy to grow

[idle mesa]

correct

[finite cave]

she has to find an exiled doctor hidden away for their looked down upon practices to get rid of it

the implication was very clear

[idle mesa]

yep

[finite cave]

especially in a game about like religion and stuff

religion and femininity

[idle mesa]

mhm

[dire lynx]

well obviously thats the implication, it doesnt make it correct to label it as such though

thats the difference between allegory and just directly doing the thing

[idle mesa]

dawg its pregnacny

theres no beating around the bush

[dire lynx]

its objectivley not

[idle mesa]

it objectively is i dont know how you can be so adamant about this

[dire lynx]

because its parasitism, pregnancy cant happen across species outside of hybrids

[finite cave]

i think you are allowed to label it as pregnancy when it does a pretty similar thing

[idle mesa]

its just

not though

[finite cave]

no it is parasitism

[idle mesa]

h

[finite cave]

no problem in calling it pregnancy tho theyre pretty similar

msin difference is youre not walking around witha. baby bump

[idle mesa]

yep

[dire lynx]

this crab is not pregnant with a Sacculina barnacle, its a host for it. This is pretty much exactly what happens to hornet with the twisted bud and greyroot

[idle mesa]

holy nerd

shes pregnant

let it be

[finite cave]

thats a crab

[dire lynx]

shes not, its an allegory, but its not the same thing

[finite cave]

😭

[idle mesa]

also

hornet isnt a crab

[dire lynx]

the branching thing inside the crab is a parasitic barnacle

[finite cave]

dance to barnacle ✨️le crab✨️

[dire lynx]

wow, really? i couldnt tell

[idle mesa]

you sent the image

[finite cave]

the thing inside hornet is a breathing crying baby takng her energy to gtow

[idle mesa]

stop tryna play it off

[dire lynx]

oml, what part of allegory do yall not understand

[idle mesa]

what part of this RATIO

[dire lynx]

what an effective point

[idle mesa]

what an effective RATIO

[dire lynx]

shes still a host and not pregnant, so ggs ratio i suppose

[idle mesa]

the greatest cope

the world has ever seen

not since presilksong has there been this level of cope

[floral quiver]

Wait are people taking the mandrake quest allegory seriously?
Like, as literal pregnancy?

[idle mesa]

mandrake?

[finite cave]

well i was saying you could call it pregnancy because theyre pretty similar

and most people know it's a parasite anyways

[finite cave]

like i said it is a parasite

[floral quiver]

The root baby is analogous to the mandrake plant. Its why its constantly crying

[idle mesa]

a crying child parasite

:3

[idle mesa]

how curious

[finite cave]

no harm in throwing a new name

[dire lynx]

yes, some cant distinguish allegory and actual occurence

[floral quiver]

It comes from medieval folklore. The mandrake bulb was though to be fetus shaped and thus a literal baby that cried.

[idle mesa]

damn

[idle mesa]

pregnant

[dire lynx]

wrong

[idle mesa]

shes still pregnant

[dire lynx]

shes still a host, and you're still illiterate

[floral quiver]

It's honestly kinda confusing cause I can't tell if theyre joshing.

Like, I want to give benifit of doubt, but.

[idle mesa]

prgenant

[dire lynx]

its either bait or they genuinely believe what they're saying, either way they're wrong and stupid

[floral quiver]

Allegorically pregnant. Literally an unwanted host for a parasite.

[dire lynx]

i've already made the distinction

[floral quiver]

Oh

Well.

[idle mesa]

h

some people take this game too seriously

[floral quiver]

Yeah, wrong and kinda stupid

[floral quiver]

See, this is a lore channel and lorehounds like myself and #1 Unn Fan take the lore seriously and expect actual discussion rather than jokes and pulled-from-rear-end assumptions.

[idle mesa]

jeez

my BAD "lore hound"

[floral quiver]

🙂

[idle mesa]

if you really got THAT pressed over me calling it pregnancy

[foggy fractal]

we should go back to weavers and runes

[idle mesa]

true

[dire lynx]

what about em?

[floral quiver]

We get pissy cause the channel getting it into its collective head that it's literal pregnancy could lead to further ranging out of left field assumptions growing from that.

[foggy fractal]

did those gosh darn weavers invent runes or not?!

👴

[idle mesa]

dawg

[floral quiver]

They did.

[foggy fractal]

proof?

🤔

🕵️

wait wrong emoji

[dire lynx]

maybe?
at the least the use of silk for runes was their invention

[foggy fractal]

🔍

[floral quiver]

I've seen it happen. The Lore channel is easily swayed into very odd lore assumptions.

[dire lynx]

i will say that *that * person who was insisting silk runes are the only form is wrong tho

[twin dragon]

the use of SILK for runes yeah

[foggy fractal]

yeah hallownest's crown runes and ac runes

are those silk 🤔

don't think so

[twin dragon]

its rune discussion again im gonna dent 3 holes into my cranium

[foggy fractal]

dw about it

I am here!

[twin dragon]

Gadget how do you feel about act 3's narrative

[foggy fractal]

https://tenor.com/view/allmight-bnha-mha-meme-fist-up-gif-13588517052470008833

[dire lynx]

nah, everyone is on the same page here methinks

[floral quiver]

In what sense? In general or do you have something specific you want my opinion on?

[twin dragon]

In general and how it follows the game thematically

[dire lynx]

their counter to that was elina calling them glyphs, but we can skip that and see in the hunters journal from silksong that runes made of silk are specified and we have runes that are not refered to as silk

[twin dragon]

glyphs are runes are usually similar or outright the game concept

[dire lynx]

i agree, but we can dodge semantics by just using the journal

[twin dragon]

lwk kinda like saying that plasmium and lifeblood are different

[foggy fractal]

does she talk about ac runes ? I'm only aware of the hallownest's crown entry

[dire lynx]

not sure

[dire lynx]

Servitor Ignim
Small construct built by Weavers past, brought to life through Silk runes threaded within.

Wingmould
False fly with a rune etched shell. A tortured mix of soul and void is caged within.

[limpid summit]

Runes glyphs whatever you want to call PK’s thing are definitely all the same thing

TC just didn’t have the word in mind for things PK made that weren’t seals

[twin dragon]

arent wtv the fuck tablets are etched with glyphs/runes

[limpid summit]

Zi has runes around her (file name) which are similar to the sort of things we see on the Riddle tablets so Shrumals had runes too

That’s just what you generally call application of soul to a surface

Most people etch them but weavers weave them

[finite cave]

oh my god bro💔💔

it's never this serious

" lorehounds " HOLY TUFF BOIIIIIIII

[foggy fractal]

Hey.

do NOT disrespect us lorehounds.

🐺

[floral quiver]

I think generally, while it's a shock, it does a good job at showing the potential destructive power of Void and why using it is a mistake. It also helps round out Hornet's character arc while bringing in the cut Daughter of Three Queens plot point.

Thematically it helps lock down the point of the game, that being how love doesnt excuse abuse or neglect and how trying to please one's family even as they hurt you is a bad call.

I will say that it's abruptness does lead to some potential negativity if one gets into the setting as it is before act 3, but that's what Weaver Queen is for, as it is intended to be ambiguous on what happens with Hornet after she breaks the cocoon.

[foggy fractal]

or else...

[finite cave]

FEELD TBE AURA

https://tenor.com/view/feels-the-aura-gif-2347929915833160550

[limpid summit]

I think the counter to that is that silk from the weavers was in PK’s workshop so PK still could have gotten runes from them but imo

1. silk doesn’t etch lmao
2. the spools could have been acquired at any point in time and placed there for later study
3. he’s a god of soul

[foggy fractal]

wth dinosaurs

[finite cave]

I AM SORRY GREAT LOREHOUMF

[foggy fractal]

yeah.

never again.

[limpid summit]

Like weavers and PK and AC all developed different soul seals convergentlt

So why not runes

[twin dragon]

It does share a bit of an inconsistency with the theme of oppressed becoming oppressors but that could be interpreted as hornet breaking the cycle

[limpid summit]

Wdym by the middle point

Lace isn’t trying to please GMS

Well I guess we wouldn’t know if the dialogue with her is real

[twin dragon]

Likely talking about how hornet didnt listen to the weavers and their call to take and do what they wanted her to do

[floral quiver]

Intentionally so. While Weaver Queen is intended ambiguous, Act 3 is very obviously about breaking cycles of oppression.

[limpid summit]

Oh I mean that was never her intention

It’s her Wyrm genes that motivated her to do that

I think she always forewent those weaver desires

[twin dragon]

Im honestly split on it

I mean

the pk is hella restrained

[limpid summit]

Yeah but he’s also him

[twin dragon]

"him"

[limpid summit]

And he’s got a kingdom to rule that’s the Wyrm drive

[twin dragon]

he's not allat

[limpid summit]

He’s not gonna walk around and absorb people

[twin dragon]

I guess, either way it works as hornet supresses her nature

Tbf caretaker mentions her want to take as a weaver trait iirc

Like tk isnt a powerhungry madman tk's just doing stuff

even though tk comes from 2 full hbs

[limpid summit]

So what're you hopin' for, eh? > Planning to usurp, to perch above us all as queen? Build up our hopes only to string us all in your own beastly web? Such is the way of Weavers and gods both...

I mean

You could say it’s weaver nature or you could go the simpler route and just say yeah that’s what the weavers did historically

I would do the latter

He’s touching on distinct eras

[twin dragon]

Tbf caretaker does say such is the way of weavers and gods both

so its split

[limpid summit]

Yeah

Both of them did that

[floral quiver]

Not in the sense that she does it out of love, but Lace is very obviously trying to please her mother by enacting her role even as she hates her viciously.

Her mother's divinity (and implied ability to enact punishment) is without doubt in Laces eyes, so she can't not try to please her mother.

[twin dragon]

But im inclined to believe weavers tried to educate hornet as they willed as shown in red memory

[limpid summit]

Vessels are pretty unique beings I think the void dulls their PB inclinations

[dire lynx]

in pharloom

[twin dragon]

and yk herrah told her to shut her ears and do her thing

[limpid summit]

Wait what

I mean you’re rich

Right

But this isn’t about act 3

[twin dragon]

Lace does the move that's why a3 happens kinda

she also sort of breaks out

[floral quiver]

Mhm

[limpid summit]

Lace’s final rebellion in silk and soul wasn’t out of love

She broke free of that it shifts to the oppression theme

She’s perpetuating the cycle

[twin dragon]

Lace was gms's little perfect puppet

[floral quiver]

Love as in Silks love.

[twin dragon]

ig lace saw this after hornet's convo and decided that gms had to go

even though gms did want to keep her around since that's her perfect barbie doll

[floral quiver]

Silk loved her daughter enough to save her life. That doesnt earn her a reprieve from being a neglectful and abusive mother

[limpid summit]

Yeah

Sure

[twin dragon]

Her "love" is how she sees it

which isnt a good thing

[floral quiver]

Exactly

[twin dragon]

she loved every daughter she had but she loved them in her way

[floral quiver]

Which is a big thematic part of Act 3

[twin dragon]

we've got no details on phantom whatsoever which is a shame

[floral quiver]

That her love didn't make her less of a monster

[twin dragon]

sje¡s

she's willing to take down everyone for her "love"

[floral quiver]

Because her mentality of order and absolute control metaphorically taints her love and makes it worthless

[twin dragon]

its a shame that hornet has all that development only for the slab to exist

[floral quiver]

This is contrasted with Hornets mother figures, who, while notably implied to be strict and expecting, did not run her life for her or do their actions in order to control her, but to ready her to live her own life in a very very harsh world.

[foggy fractal]

blame it on team cherry

only way dawg

[twin dragon]

sos can fix it

grimm troupe added some dialogues my hope is still up

[foggy fractal]

theres no way buh

maybe if leth checks this channel

[dire lynx]

silksong morality tier list (fs is stand in for citadel weavers)

[twin dragon]

How is gms so high

[floral quiver]

Dunno

[twin dragon]

she's lwk held every antagonist in fear

[dire lynx]

thats not high 😭

[twin dragon]

indirectly the driving force of everything

she's arguably conductor level

imo conductors are worse than weavers

they likely built the whole hierarchical and caste system for their benefit

js look at them falls in high halls man

thats not good

[twin dragon]

GP used child soldiers and hornet is himmler

Lace is def much worse than phantom as she murdered quite a few choirbugs

phantom was there

she didnt even do anything wrong

[floral quiver]

The weavers just started a religion, the Conductors brought industry and slavery and sickness being a sin into things.

[twin dragon]

Exactly

im inclined to believe that weavers used whiteward though

with the soul syphon

[dire lynx]

a slavery religion

they are also the ones who indentured the flies

[twin dragon]

they're really not good but they are def the best out of the worst

[floral quiver]

Unknown.

[twin dragon]

And we barely know of khann rule

at least he wasnt a facist

[dire lynx]

old penitent who is from the surface said that they were in service for so long that even when he was locked up nobody could remember why

[twin dragon]

The conductor citadel has been running for a lot of time though

likely most of its lifespan

and the slab wasnt that large or ornamented as it is in the weaver era

likely because they didnt find purpose jailing pilgrims when they could toss them into the soul syphon

[floral quiver]

And that means little because the industrial Citadel is so old that people have forgotten that Greymoor used to be fields of crops and consider such fairy tales for simpletons

The Citadel has been dead for generations upon generations and each of its eras were probably generations upon generations.

[twin dragon]

dead?

[floral quiver]

The Citadel is effectively a machine that Silk can turn off and on. Its why in the first introduction, the place is full of long dead corpses that spring to service once Silk is made aware of Hornet's presence and throws her silk all round.

[twin dragon]

Yeah but i dont think the dead bugs reproduced yk

we cant call it generations

[floral quiver]

...

I mean generations for bugs outside the Citadel

[twin dragon]

Also its interesting how the citadel, despite being dead and barren, seems as gleaming as ever, kinda like a stasis chamber

[twin dragon]

Yeah

[twin dragon]

wtv

[floral quiver]

Effectively. Silk wants order. For everybug to do their roles by her command. Her first daughters were willful and rebellious, thanks to their nature as spiders, so she made a new set of daughters, ones who would enact their roles to perfection and not betray her.

[twin dragon]

Most bugs actually just stick to what they were doing before

[floral quiver]

The haunted Citadel is a clockwork diorama of the place it was, manipulated by Silk.

[twin dragon]

Pharloom is

the entire thing

Every bug now js shares their mind space with silk

[floral quiver]

Yes, but the Citadel is where that is most direct and pronounced. The bugs of Bellhart had to be physically strung up and given a minder, the Citadel bugs jump to command.

[twin dragon]

The bellhart bugs were actually strung up by widow i imagine

the cit bugs are no different than any other haunted bugs

[floral quiver]

She cant use her own silk. She can only physically manipulate Silk's.

[twin dragon]

I know

widow used silk's.. silk

to string up bellhart

[floral quiver]

My point. The citadel did not require such crude methods.

It fell completely long ago

[twin dragon]

I mean no other location did

widow did it as an offering wtv

Most other locations are also long dead but pharloom as a whole doesnt seem to be

as pilgrims keep coming into the kingdom

[floral quiver]

Most other locations arent. The bugs of Greymoor, the Deep Docks, Hunter's March and Bone Bottem are technically not corpses. Just bugs being manipulated using the silk in and around them.

It's why some Pilgrims look to be physically flung around rather than just directly attacking Hornet.

[twin dragon]

I dont think the haunting is sort of a physical thing yk

It makes the haunted bugs minds align with gms

what pavo tells us

And the pilgrims can jump yeah they're going on a hard climb

[floral quiver]

It is. Enemies activating have physical silklines going at them.

[twin dragon]

That silk doesnt make them move though

like gms doesnt pupeteer the bugs

in the physical sense

[floral quiver]

Not that they can jump, that some are being physically forced to jump.

[twin dragon]

I dont think this is the case

we would be seeing more outlandish stuff

the haunting also supresses the bugs instincts

they can just do wtv

[floral quiver]

She does seemingly. Some Haunted pilgrims vocalize like they're not in control of their actions, like they didn't expect to do what theyre doing.

[twin dragon]

Yeah this is the case

but not because they're being physically flung around

Wtv gms wants them to do is likely engraved in their shared mind now

[exotic pendant]

Hey isn't there the theory that the deaths in normal mode we experience in gameplay is basically hornet's inherited foresight showing her how she may die. Is there anything that supports this other than hornet gasping every time she wakes up from the bench

[idle mesa]

i think its sceptical?

this was more valid with tk in hk

[exotic pendant]

yeah I know but we can find something

[idle mesa]

there isnt anything directly saying it

[floral quiver]

It's one of those common ideas that's shown up multiple times over the game's life in lots of different places for Silksong discussion

[exotic pendant]

I did find one but it's a real stretch, which is that hornet knows that trobbio is trying to kill her for dramatic effect. (hunters journal entry), but it could just be that how trobbio fought her in the moment, she can tell that he was killing her, not that she saw that she can die to him through foresight

eh, just a thought

[idle mesa]

thing is

it could js be a game mechanic

[floral quiver]

Like I said, a common thought.

[exotic pendant]

game mechanics can be half cannon, in a sense

[idle mesa]

there isnt enough to say for certain what it is

or if it matters

[exotic pendant]

yeah, but I want to hear some stuff that may support this theory

[floral quiver]

Hornets direct parents have foresight and the seeming ability to speak through memories. Hornet acts as if waking from a nightmare after she dies.

It would be very neat.

[twin dragon]

it is weird because of the cocoon she leaves

same with tk's shade which is canon i think

[exotic pendant]

well speaking through memories is a new supporting evidence that I heard just now

[twin dragon]

since others can perceive it

[exotic pendant]

I didn't think of it that way

[floral quiver]

Can they perceive the cocoon?

[dire lynx]

the shade is canon in that tk would leave one if they died. i dont think "deaths" themselves are canon, however

[twin dragon]

no clue

[floral quiver]

Oh. Thought you were saying the Cocoon was perceptible.

Misread

[exotic pendant]

ok so about what happened to all the weaver descendants captured and taken to the citadel, as seen in the cage room of the cradle? I heard some say they were consumed, some say they were taken to service

is the answer just not clear

[twin dragon]

yeah we kinda dont know

[exotic pendant]

oh ok

[twin dragon]

maybe consumed seeing the broken cages

[uneven narwhal]

how come mechanical beings are being able to be controlled by the void?

[foggy fractal]

powered by silk flies which are susceptible to the haunting which are threads from gms which void is latching on to I think don't quote me on it

[pseudo narwhal]

Maybe foresight is more like a multiverse theory
Each time you die you actually die but also create "a fork" of events when you are alive
But what remains after your death exists in all universes because "death regrets" are void connected and void somehow screws rules
(So Hornet is so old not because she is really old in "bug ages" but because she died a lot lol)

And steel seers can stabilize this multiverse thing so you can't create forks anymore and die for real

(didn't explain rosary/geo loss tho)

[twin dragon]

Likely hornet hasn't changed because she herself didnt grow out of her purpose

and the cocoon still exists idk how you explain that

[whole holly]

i hope we totally destroy Steel Clan in City of Steel DLC

i can already tell something is up with them

[fading shard]

shouln't hornet be in C

[whole holly]

???

[fading shard]

there was a whole discussion in sk discussion on how much she kinda sucks

because she does

she sucks a lot

[whole holly]

hornet?

[twin dragon]

I mean she saves a shit ton of people while indirectly killing many

and also evil shitr

because evil shit

[fading shard]

yes

absolutely

I could name a ton of stuff

[whole holly]

yea, she is morally grey anti-hero?

[twin dragon]

No but like

slab entries and destroying environments and stuff

seemingly for no reason aswell

[fading shard]

she's not a anti horo

[whole holly]

yeah, that's not even biggest problem, she admits she is partially complicit in weaver queen

[fading shard]

she literally does stuff that are objectively evil

for the sake of being evil

[twin dragon]

she can be evil but what i mentioned is hornet being out of character

[whole holly]

i mean not exactly, but you get what i was trying to say, right?

[twin dragon]

weaver queen is actually a good representation on how hornet doesnt grow and falls into her and her kin's desires

[whole holly]

inconsistent chaotic neutral

[twin dragon]

that is good characterization

[fading shard]

.....get's told to be left alone, get's ignored, get's told that they want to have a moment with peace with their partner, get's ignored, get's their memories invaded and is told to leave them, not only get's ignored but get's killed against their requests, even if hornet already has a third heart and her justification is that she wanted to test her skill, even if it's in the detrimit of others or even causes mass destruction

[whole holly]

power still changes people, winning against yourself and your base instincts is hardest battle

[twin dragon]

To hornet getting gudder is more valuable than an entire area ig

[fading shard]

and I'm not talking about the three hearts quest

Im' talking about if she does so for a forth heart

which the game does give a in game explanation for

[whole holly]

so you get what i mean? or not?

[twin dragon]

yeah thats good

[fading shard]

no I do not

[whole holly]

but she is not really fighting

[fading shard]

because her going to get a forth heart

for no reason

other then for sport

[twin dragon]

she doesnt fight that when not fully exploring pharloom and its residents

[fading shard]

is disgusting especially when gilly outright states and hornet acknowledges that killing karmelita for no reason would result in the ruin of the caverns around them for ages

[twin dragon]

Im willing to see karm as a hunter giving the other hunter homage

[whole holly]

anti-hero can be complex, she could be anti-villain but that's not as well defined, if you are arguing with strict definitions sure but she does some questionable things

[twin dragon]

but not the rest

And i dont think the game ever does paint this in a good light

[fading shard]

Also Hornet quite literally ignores the flaws and horrible deeds of others she likes but cherry picks those she doesn't (main example the second sentinel)

[fading shard]

She get's told by the twelfth architect what the sentinels did

and she ignores them

[whole holly]

i am aware

[twin dragon]

Sometimes she's not aware of those deeds

[fading shard]

she literally ignores all of the heinous actions the weaver commited

[twin dragon]

this isnt a fair criticism

[twin dragon]

I dont think she does as she tries not to become like them and what they've told her

[whole holly]

no one in world of hollow knight no one is champion of morality, it seems

[fading shard]

she does ignore them

and I have in game evidence for this

[whole holly]

i know, when were weavers heroes?

[twin dragon]

tc for some reason wrote the slabflies entries while listening to the german 1940's national anthem

[twin dragon]

show

She's likely somewhat biased towards her kin but thats part of how she is

[fading shard]

"This one still lived, though if it was a Weaver, it was broken in a savage way."

[fading shard]

justifies them being broken

[twin dragon]

from where is this

[whole holly]

lol, current on-going real life events are just as bad, you could have used those examples

[fading shard]

shakra

[twin dragon]

Where exactly shakra

[fading shard]

dude you can just check the wiki

[fading shard]

"This one still lived, though if it was a Weaver, it was broken in a savage way." she gives no responce

[twin dragon]

maybe fucking give your sources

[fading shard]

It's in the wiki how hard is it to go to the wiki

maskmaker talks about the weavers heinous acts

she ignores what he says about the weavers

and only acknowledges that the citadel is awful

because she does genuinely hate on the citadel

but ignores every single mention of the weavers

this is just a fact

She would not and will not acknowledge her kinds crimes

[idle mesa]

whats the discussion

[fading shard]

because she's a filthy cherry picking jackass

yet she dares to judge her divine kind

[foggy stratus]

Maybe you could just give the damn quote so he doesn’t have to sift through tons of dialogue to find it.

[fading shard]

I did give the quote?

[twin dragon]

she acknowledges the citadel sucks, likely knows the weavers created it

[fading shard]

her hating on the citadel is not the same to acknowledging the weavers awful crimes

[fading shard]

literally gave the exact quote

from vaultkeeper cordinius

[exotic pendant]

hornet was there to console green prince actually, she just killed because of what happened at the end. For her karmilita justification, well that's opinion based. In her justification, if she can't save lace pharloom is dead anyways

[twin dragon]

i dont have the context on this how do i know

[whole holly]

going stop arguing, it doesn't matter that much

[fading shard]

he litearlly tells her to back off

several times

[exotic pendant]

yes but her intent was indeed to console

not nessisarily like "evil"

[fading shard]

that's not the case though?

he tells her to leave and she keeps going through his memory

[exotic pendant]

green prince literally said "don't seek to console me" before the fight

[whole holly]

i wish Old Hearts and Weavers resisted influence of Grand Mother Silk, Skarrsong was really important for preventing the haunting

[foggy stratus]

Yes because Nyleth can totally solo GMS

[exotic pendant]

and he only tells her to leave when she reaches the throne, before he was fine wirh hornet helping him remember

[twin dragon]

Hornet's journey, all of it, consists of not falling into who she comes from and not becoming like them

[whole holly]

she can send Seth

[fading shard]

not the case

[twin dragon]

i think thats enough indication that hornet doesnt want to be like her kin

Like ffs did you play silksong

[foggy stratus]

Hm yes.

[fading shard]

No more talk, warrior. Permit me this final moment of memorial.
Hornet: As you wish, sir. I shall disturb you no longer

[fading shard]

continues to disturb him

[exotic pendant]

that's outside the memory

[foggy stratus]

Not for particularly long tho.

[exotic pendant]

I'm talking inside

[idle mesa]

whats the dsicussion

[fading shard]

she talks about not wanting to be like her pale heritage

She talks about how bad her pale being side is

how she isn't like her pale being kind

etc

not anything regarding the weavers nubbie

that's the problem

[whole holly]

it can be attributed to Weavers who are ascended by Pale Being

[idle mesa]

can SOMEONE answer

[fading shard]

how

[exotic pendant]

green price

memory

[idle mesa]

what about it

[exotic pendant]

hornet killing him

[twin dragon]

The caretaker scrutinizes her for the weaver part either way and hornet rejects it iirc

[idle mesa]

like

[fading shard]

nope

[whole holly]

Grand Mother Silk is progenitor of weavers

[floral quiver]

Hornet doesn't want to be like her kin, but I like the Idea that she's willing to be during a "Get to Silk and Soul, bind Silk anyway" run. Entirely cause I like the idea she sniffed out the Shaman's plan, wanted nothing to do with it and had no alternative to binding. So she does.

But that's entirely a personal thing.

[whole holly]

if Pale King had child with Vespa, instead of Herrah, hornet would be a better person and Hive would be saved too

[twin dragon]

Abhiker is talking about how hornet doesnt gaf about the weavers crimes

[floral quiver]

Oh I know

[foggy stratus]

Maybe she wouldn’t hate flies as well.

[whole holly]

who knows

[fading shard]

........wouldn't that same logic apply to the moths and the radiance

vespa and the hive

or hte mosskin and unn

I feel as though that makes no sense

especially when the game does differentiate the weavers and gms

the cares talk about her diving pale kind

and the weavers seperately

including the likes of caretaker and vaultkeeper cardinius

she only ever states she's not like her pale being kind

[whole holly]

hey hey hey, Weavers inherited a lot from Grand Mother Silk, while Mosskin, Mothkin don't really inherit their mom's powers in exact same way

[fading shard]

the mothkin did inherit a lot of the radiances powers though

they could shape dreams

and do a lot of funky stuff

[floral quiver]

A thing with Hornet, I feel, is that she kinda naively wants her Weaverkin to not suck, like she's moved to thinking her Wyrmkin side does, so she has a tendency to mentally put negative traits similar in both heritages squarely on the Wyrm side semi-subconciously.

[whole holly]

they did but that doesn't matter to Weaver comparisons, because Radiance is not a Pale Being, Grand Mother Silk

[fading shard]

because she doesn't

caretaker mentions that it's not for the weavers to care for other

s

[whole holly]

i broadly agree, but why does she think Pale Beings(Pale King and White Lady) are evil? is there something we don't know

[fading shard]

hornet deflects by saying why does he do so

[fading shard]

because she's biased asf

[twin dragon]

She does, the point of her journey

[fading shard]

that's why

[foggy stratus]

She’s coping as to why she’s such a bad person(Weaver naturally killing instinct and shit)

[fading shard]

the point of her journey is to do with her pale being side

the game literally says this

with mask maker

[twin dragon]

Hornet hasnt found herself in a situation where she's being questioned about her kin's crimes

[fading shard]

she talks about her pale being desire to dominate

not ever mentioning the weaver stuff nubbie

[fading shard]

..........

[whole holly]

is it possible PK and WL did really bad things, other vessel project

[fading shard]

she did

[fading shard]

wl did

[twin dragon]

She'd rather blame it on the root cause

[whole holly]

like?

[twin dragon]

which the weavers were victim of

[fading shard]

queens garden

[foggy stratus]

Maybe, but we never hear anything of it and everyone still reveres PK sooooo.

[fading shard]

we're not told or shown for that to be the case for the pk

[whole holly]

i mean in devotion or destruction context of pale beings

[fading shard]

nothing

the pale king outright leaves the hive, mantis tribe, and mosskin alone

alongside making a deal with unn

[whole holly]

i hope hornet says something

[fading shard]

and the mantis lords

[fading shard]

hollow knight reveres the pale king throughout the entire game until the void is mentioned

[whole holly]

why did white lady attack territory that pale king made deal with?

[fading shard]

then the game talks about his dark side

[fading shard]

She did so before he arrived?

the lore tablet literally talks about the situation

[foggy stratus]

In the sense that it would discredit PK or to know why she so adverse to her Pale Being side?

[fading shard]

before hallownest was formed

she get's called out as a random pale being

[whole holly]

second one

[fading shard]

with no mention of hallownest

or her queenly status

and additionally the white lady is said to be the LATE wife of the pks

[whole holly]

we don't know timeline

[fading shard]

we do know given everything that's said

[floral quiver]

She has a directly stated beef with having been a dutybound guard to a corpse of a kingdom for most of her life rather than living her preferred life of a wandering hero who saves and helps people.

This beef is externalized in a vicious disregard for her father, the poster boy for Hallownest being an eternal kingdom.

[whole holly]

not really no

[fading shard]

Nika must I repeat myself

[whole holly]

abhiker, what you said doesn't really prove your claims

[foggy stratus]

You’re assuming it happens before Hallownest under the sole basis that WL being a Queen isn’t mentioned.

[twin dragon]

The weavers inherited higher being traits

[fading shard]

"Though once our lands, a pale being lays claim to the caverns ahead.
It may appear benevolent but it does not share our dream.
Be wary to wander that place"

not pale beingS

no mention of hallownest

no mention of the pale king

[fading shard]

you do realize the only mentions of the white lady

are either with the mention of the pk

[foggy stratus]

Yeah maybe because it wasn’t relevant.

[fading shard]

or as the queen

[twin dragon]

Hornet likely sees the weavers as victims of their own hubris

and gms

Which is a fair thing to assume since they were

[floral quiver]

Hallownest is heavily implied

[twin dragon]

most of the stuff they did was out of necessity

[whole holly]

being princess protector of dead kingdom will do that to you, i wonder if that's why she feels affection toward lace and respect for second sentinel

[fading shard]

they would have rephrased it

if the pale king

was a partner of the white ladies

[floral quiver]

Openly and directly so

[whole holly]

not necessarily

[foggy stratus]

Again, that would have been irrelevant. Why over complicate shit when the only party involved is the WL.

[fading shard]

Hollow knight, only speaks of the white lady as the queen of hallownest or her relationship with thep ale king, looking at every mention of hers the only time she get's called a pale being is while bundled up with her partner

[floral quiver]

Hornet sees a lot of herself in both Lace and Second Sentinal.

For good and bad

[fading shard]

and the mosskin call the pale king whiteking

and by that conclusion they'd likely call the white lady white queen

if she was at that point his partner

on top of that for these types of stuff the Pale king is mentioned

[whole holly]

also how she talks to shamans is interesting to me, shamans and weavers are really similar as people, hornet simply chooses to treat weavers neutrally because weaver identity is part of her

[fading shard]

and knowing the mosskin and unn they would mention the king if he was complicit for such an act

[whole holly]

"knowing the mosskin and unn they would mention the king if he was complicit for such an act" did they tell you that?

[fading shard]

what also doesn't make sense for him to have been atp married to the white lady is the fact that we see hallownest architecture in the lake of unn that allowed the mosskin to be closer to unn

[foggy stratus]

Or it was land that used to belong to them and then somehow was lost upon which WL took up residence and then the tablet was put up as a warning to be careful going there.

[floral quiver]

"Kingdom moves in to "unused" or "abandoned" territory of another people" is uncomfortably colonial.

[twin dragon]

she saw them as a victim of the problem

[fading shard]

wouldn't it be "pale beings have layed claim to the caverns ahead"

not a pale being

[whole holly]

if only one pale being attacked, not really no

[fading shard]

their a union T_T

[whole holly]

so? they are still individuals

[fading shard]

again hornet sucks for victimizing the weavers

[floral quiver]

Like, you don't put up a big sign that says "we used to own this place, now they own it and feign benevolence, be on your guard" about territory you don't care about anymore

[whole holly]

plus Moss prophet still resides in queen's gardens

[floral quiver]

You do that about territory you cant take back

[whole holly]

guys i want to change the topic

[whole holly]

and i propose talking about vespa, she is least discussed out of three mothers of hornet

[floral quiver]

They are her kin. Its understandable she would see them in a less harsh light even with her childhood.

[fading shard]

the pale beings are her kin

and her father created a great kingdom in which he was adored in

and one of her three mothers loved

the weavers literally did worse deeds then the pale king did

the only bad deed he commited was to do with the vessels

[floral quiver]

And she likes one of them and uses the other as a representation of her trauma and anger about being a guard to a corpse kingdom for eons.

[whole holly]

personally i think she is somewhat of a old heart, as old hearts are described and what vespa does for hive are really similar

[fading shard]

so unfair bias

a bad character trait

[fading shard]

honestly fair point

wouldn't be surprised if she was one

she fits the bill quite nicely

[whole holly]

gives Karmelita vibes for me, personally

[floral quiver]

The Weavers built a religion. One of austerity and humility. It then fell to compromised bugs, but all they did was start a cult.

The Pale King murdered his children by the truckload.

[fading shard]

that's......not true

they created the silkflies

and imprisoned one of their sisters

who wanted to speak the truth of their false divine heritage

they created the second sentinels

and they have silk flies

alongside ismaor statue thing

[floral quiver]

They created the machinery for the Silkflies. The Citadel turned them into mass produced machines.

[fading shard]

who also talked about the messed up gospels of the citadel

[fading shard]

......silkflies are just as heinous as the vessels

[floral quiver]

Untrue. She died before she was put in that cell.

[fading shard]

the silkflies were made for the machinery

[whole holly]

and shaman dialogue suggests it too: Bell Hermit: Pharloom was not born of that monarch, Old One. Power existed in these lands even before she bound them beneath her.

[fading shard]

are we being serious

[floral quiver]

Yes.

If you look closely at First Sinner's mummy, the exterior rock formations have big bolts to fit chains, and no chains locking it down.

Also, if she was alive when entering the cell, why is she surrounded by a rock fixture similar to the other buried weavers, rather than a corpse on the ground?

Like, are we to assume that's just a natural part of Weaver death?

Or that she did that to herself while waiting to die?

[frank dove]

Penance by casting?

Could be some kind of thing they do

[floral quiver]

Different Weaver, I'm pretty sure

[frank dove]

Ik that

There are a lot of them mummified though

But we are in a memory

It could be some kind of trap?

[floral quiver]

And all but one are entombed in burial spires.

And that one looks less like an imprisoned corpse and more like a entombed Weaver desecrated.

[frank dove]

They still have silk in burial spires, correct?

We take it from them?

Maybe they can get out or smtn but rune cage was to prevent that for fs

[foggy stratus]

I just saw a skarr fucking moon walk.

[fading shard]

she's literally a weaver that put in prison for penatence

we literally see that the jailsale was made by the citadel

there's a literal logo there

[floral quiver]

We do, yes. But we see what looks like a partially destroyed burial mummy and not a corpse on the ground.

Is that just artistic consistency with the other Weavers we get power from?

[fading shard]

she literally has simillar dialogue to the other mummified weavers

with the difference of her calling the kingdom accursed

she literally does not like the citadel

[floral quiver]

I know?

[fading shard]

and she literally KNOWS of the "kingdom" the weavers created

[floral quiver]

When did I deny this?

She's a spirit haunting a mummy

[fading shard]

you're denying the weavers being the ones that imprisoned her

[floral quiver]

Yes.

[fading shard]

when we literally see her contained in the apostasy area

"Apostasy is the formal abandonment, renunciation, or desertion of a religious faith, cause, or political party"

and she does just that

she rejects the lies the weaver said about them being divine

so idk what you're getting at here

the weavers are said to be awful people gadget

this isn't some new information

[floral quiver]

What I'm getting at is that her words and why and when she was locked up as an apostate of the citadel are up to interpretation especially given her mummified state.

Because why her corpse is the way it is is important when considering what happened.

Like, am I to assume she died in her cell and just coincidentally ended up like the other buried Weavers?

Is that how Weavers die?

And if not, why is she like that?

[fading shard]

we literally see that the cell of hers in the inside

looks as of what it was before the conductors glorified the place

because it is said

that the citadel did not look as fancy back in the day

[floral quiver]

We see her corpse and her cell. It looks like this. Note all the modern Citadel architecture and coloring. Unless they dug out her cell around her mummy after she died?