sk-lore

[limpid summit]

Eh I mean

Not really

But it makes the most sense

[unique tangle]

I mean they definitely wouldn’t be from the weaver era

[stray grove]

It doesn’t have to be used in an exclusively religious context and the conclusion that Joni did something that specifically opposed PK’s official doctrine is not only baseless but also contradictory as I have already explained at length

[limpid summit]

Wdym

[fading shard]

all I'm trying to do is try in someway to make lifebloods situation in silksong not feel so disjointed

[stray grove]

Ok well you can’t

[twin dragon]

Yeah what does that have to do

[limpid summit]

As in haunted bugs would dismantle the core

Or Lace

[fading shard]

listen I cope a lot regarding silksong

[stray grove]

That TC’s writing is inconsistent isn’t an excuse to just make shit up

[unique tangle]

But it would mean that the threefold melody wasn’t “impossible” like Hornet suggested

Which is odd

[twin dragon]

Well hornet herself mentions the climb was impossible for the regular bug

[stray grove]

Like there is no rationalizing that I’m sorry

[twin dragon]

and theres no mention nor report of bugs being near it nor lace

[stray grove]

If it’s your headcanon it doesn’t belong here

[unique tangle]

But clearly it isn’t given that there’s pilgrim corpses in the cradle

[spark valve]

the climb which she only has to do in a fallen citadel where everyone is infected and there's no other source

[limpid summit]

Are we talking about the cradle or the core

[twin dragon]

im referring to the cogwork core

[fading shard]

listen team cherry has to address all of these inconsistencies kirb

[twin dragon]

do you expect the fucking average joe to climb the core like that

[fading shard]

I'm sure they will

[twin dragon]

im talking about the core

[stray grove]

No they don’t lmao

[spark valve]

no if only hollow knight fans could read

[twin dragon]

the cradle has bug carcasses in it

[twin dragon]

[unique tangle]

But you would need the architect melody to reach the cradle? Unless the pilgrims before just got the melody from an architect directly instead

[spark valve]

normal bugs didn't make that climb there's no reason to think they had to hornet just has to do it because of the current state of the citadel

[stray grove]

There are plenty of inconsistencies between the two games that weren’t addressed and probably aren’t going to be idk why you’re hung up on Lifeblood specifically

Like it’s just a retcon deal with it

[twin dragon]

Can you read

[spark valve]

and the living architect forgot it

[distant mason]

Wrong inage

😠

How much faster prime PV could save pharloom compared to hornet?

[limpid summit]

Tammo we’re talking about the cradle not the core

[limpid summit]

Much much faster

[spark valve]

yes the impossible climb thing people bring up is about the core

[limpid summit]

Sorry

Core not the cradle

What

[distant mason]

Unrelated aura image

[stray grove]

Apple can you formulate a coherent sentence please

[limpid summit]

I hate you

[spark valve]

people use that as evidence because they think that every pilgrim would've had to navigate cogwork core
which isn't true

[twin dragon]

That's literally not what we're arguing at all

[distant mason]

I wonder

[spark valve]

then what impossible climb is relevant

[limpid summit]

What we’re arguing is whether the core did its job

[distant mason]

Did the first person who discovered voltwyrm found it in act 2 or act 3?

[spark valve]

nobody turned it on

[limpid summit]

Last edict of the conductors implies it did but then architect calls it near complete or something

[spark valve]

so no it didn't it was never finished

[stray grove]

My guy it was never completed

[twin dragon]

Apple mentioned the haunting forcing pilgrims to climb it to deactivate it

[spark valve]

edict is an order they ordered its construction and it was never completed

[twin dragon]

nuh

[spark valve]

nonsensemaxxing

[stray grove]

Apple is talking nonsense nobody ever had to climb it

[limpid summit]

And lo is eternity sustained (in a few months)

[fading shard]

fine

[limpid summit]

That makes no sense lmao

[limpid summit]

That’s not what I said??

[fading shard]

I still don't agree with delta on their statements on how dangerous lifeblood is in silksong kirb

[twin dragon]

how do you expect them to do it otherwise

[fading shard]

like it's shown to be a genuinely really serious threat

[stray grove]

Yes obviously

[limpid summit]

That doesn’t mean they climbed to the top of the core

Idk haunt the silkflies in the cogworks break a few gears

[stray grove]

Hornet tells us it has the potential to consume the entire kingdom and it spreads incredibly rapidly

[limpid summit]

Literally whatever

[stray grove]

Obviously it’s a threat

[fading shard]

but deltas statements somehow overestimate it

[limpid summit]

Every cogwork bug and gear in the core is operational and the edict of the conductors is phrased as if the thing actually happened

[spark valve]

in which case hornet couldn't just put in the code and turn it on

[limpid summit]

If you’re applying for a building permit you don’t say “the house is built”

[spark valve]

But you m-m-may hear it, still. At the height of our core, there is means-s-s-system, near complete...

[fading shard]

didn't she literally confirm in a lore entry that in her home caves soemthing simillar happened

literally

[stray grove]

Holy false equivalence lmao

[spark valve]

bro it's an order it's let the house be built and give your souls and lives to build it

[limpid summit]

Hollow knight fans can’t read

[stray grove]

Case in point

Post the full quote next time

[limpid summit]

And lo, is eternity sustained. By Architect's claw, we welcome that final form, of dial and rotor, and soul gladly given. The perfect, unfaltering voice.

Literally how is this not

“It is done”

Be serious

[fading shard]

""In my home caves, when once this substance was allowed to flourish, I saw similar aberrations. This is wonder tainted strong with revulsion.""

[spark valve]

Last edict of the Conductors.

"And lo, is eternity sustained. By Architect's claw, we welcome that final form, of dial and rotor, and soul gladly given.

The perfect, unfaltering voice."
apple can you identify the order here

[limpid summit]

Order what

It’s a proclamation

“We did it guys”

[spark valve]

it's an edict

[stray grove]

Dude it’s an edict

[twin dragon]

most of the chat cant read not just hk fans dw

[stray grove]

Google what that means

[limpid summit]

An edict is not an order exclusively

Really

[stray grove]

🥴

[foggy stratus]

[limpid summit]

“Decree, order or proclamation”

Lmao

Son

[stray fog]

It can also be a proclamation

[limpid summit]

Don’t try and dictionary me

[stray grove]

Dude

[spark valve]

it was probably made during construction

not after

[limpid summit]

“And lo, is eternity sustained.”

[spark valve]

yup

[stray grove]

My guy

[spark valve]

totally works with what I said lol

[stray grove]

“So we’re gonna make this core and so eternity’s gonna be sustained”

[limpid summit]

https://tenor.com/view/jadareloaded-jadapriint-spongebob-math-confused-gif-12159426465507071637

[spark valve]

or even we are making the core and this is what your roles are gonna be

[stray grove]

I skipped that part but yes

It’s “we are making this core and these are your roles and in doing so eternity is sustained”

[spark valve]

I don't think the arithmetic on this is hard when twelfth architect calls the thing 'near complete'

[stray grove]

It’s also not turned on and I’m not sure the conclusion that some haunted bugs parkoured their way up to switch it off is more compelling

[spark valve]

and if they broke something lower down hornet wouldn't be able to just turn it on by aligning the cylinders

and the cylinders wouldn't be misaligned in general

[stray grove]

They need only be set to functional form.

[unique tangle]

In fairness of argument she could’ve gotten a Cogwork automaton to turn it off

Those things are haunted

And there happens to be a Cogwork choirbug in the music box room

[twin dragon]

"haunted"

[stray grove]

But Twelfth Architect says it was never turned on

It was never finished to begin with

[unique tangle]

Yeah they show puppet strings when you needolin them

[twin dragon]

Pk is present in silksong

i saw him the other day

[unique tangle]

Wym haunted in quotation marks?

[spark valve]

umm technically it only says near completion 🤓

[twin dragon]

Idk how logically they could be haunted

[unique tangle]

Haunted in the sense that GMS can puppet them using silk

[foggy stratus]

They have silk in them.

[unique tangle]

They’re beings with silk in their construction

[stray grove]

I mean yeah obviously if it was unfinished it wouldn’t have been set to “functional form”
That would also be a pretty weird line if they were already set to “functional form” prior to that then turned off and needed to be turned back on again lol

[unique tangle]

And they are explicitly shown to be haunted ingame

[stray grove]

That the automata are haunted is kind of a tertiary argument

This is a pretty explicit line from Twelfth Architect

[twin dragon]

its not gms's silk

[stray grove]

The method for switching it off is kinda just irrelevant

[foggy stratus]

Like all Silk is her Silk?

[stray grove]

HK fans try to read challenge

[foggy stratus]

Whole 'primal source of Silk' and all that?

[twin dragon]

[stray grove]

Where do you think they got the silk from

[twin dragon]

The bugs???

[unique tangle]

Yeah I think that argument is fair, I just am disagreeing with your hyperbole that GMS would have to make some pilgrim parkour up to the top

[stray grove]

I mean that was Apple’s claim

[limpid summit]

Lace

She could have done it

[unique tangle]

Ok maybe apple should claim something else then

[limpid summit]

It’s that easy

She can run and jump

And swim

[foggy stratus]

No clawline

[spark valve]

if gms made anybody disable the core why would she have her agent do it in a way so easily fixed instead of by actually breaking anything

[twin dragon]

Iirc silkflies are quite literally the soul extracted out of the bugs

[limpid summit]

Same reason why she doesnt just destroy the entire core now that everyone is haunted

It’s a game

[spark valve]

the core doesn't matter anymore if it ever mattered at all

[stray grove]

Bro has still not addressed the TA dialogue

[limpid summit]

They are but there’s probably some silk involved there

[stray grove]

Cut out the larp

[spark valve]

she's no longer fully asleep and its song clearly isn't enough to put her back down

[limpid summit]

It wasn’t even there

[foggy stratus]

Or she doesn't have enough fire power to destroy the whole ass core.

[limpid summit]

Are you saying 12A has world sense

[stray grove]

This is ragebait

[foggy stratus]

?

Pretty sure at least.

[spark valve]

surely the architect needs that to have knowledge about the construction status of their most significant project ever 💔

[stray grove]

No it’s just lying

[twin dragon]

are you dumb?

can you read?

obviously menderbug fucking built it

[foggy stratus]

[twin dragon]

all of these so called "readers"

[limpid summit]

Anyway GMS stretching her threads down would catch the silkflies and haunt the cogworks

[twin dragon]

and they cant fucking read still

[limpid summit]

Makes sense

[spark valve]

and they stopped building it

[stray grove]

The method doesn’t fucking matter

You don’t have to provide a detailed explanation of how GMS managed to turn it off there are more important issues to address

[limpid summit]

What are you saying

The method always matters…

[spark valve]

are there

[stray grove]

Like a) why would she turn it off when it clearly was of no consequence to her b) if she was going to turn it off why did she do so in a way that was so easily reversible and c) why was it on in the first place when it was literally unfinished

[limpid summit]

I mean why is it on now

[stray grove]

IT’S NOT

[spark valve]

because hornet finished it?

[stray grove]

Hornet turns it on

[limpid summit]

Yes it is?

The whole core is the mechanism

All the gears

It’s not just the melody

[stray grove]

Do you know what the purpose of the core was

[limpid summit]

I can hear the music just fine

[spark valve]

it's mostly complete the gears weren't hooked up to the music device to play the music to gms yet

it's like calling a car complete that has a working engine and axels and shit but no actual wheels yet

yeah bro PART of it works but the device as a WHOLE is incomplete

and the part that isn't is the important part

[limpid summit]

The car is running

I think a more apt comparison would be the radio or something

[stray grove]

Dude

[spark valve]

no bro it's sitting there on the ground with the axels spinning and doing nothing because there's no WHEELS

[foggy stratus]

Not without the goddamn wheels.

[tawdry flare]

It powers the whole underground. Duh

[limpid summit]

Hollow knight fans can’t drive??

[stray grove]

Tammo’s analogy was apt because the purpose of a car is to get from point a to point b just as the purpose of the core is to play the melody for GMS

[foggy stratus]

If a car doesnt have the spinny things do you think it can go vroom vroom?

[stray grove]

A car without wheels is unable to fulfill its basic function even if the other parts are working fine

Just as the core is not functional despite basically being completed

[limpid summit]

What if you want to listen to music

[stray grove]

Stop taking the piss man

[spark valve]

now if all you gotta do is add the wheels it's near completion

[foggy stratus]

Fuck your radio im taking it away.

[stray grove]

You don’t get a car just to listen to the music you also don’t build the core just to watch the gears and shit move

[foggy stratus]

Or watch the weird rotating things in it.

[limpid summit]

But the gears and shit are moving

Why would they turn the car on without the wheels if the wheels never worked

[stray grove]

You are genuinely illiterate bro good luck in life

[limpid summit]

And then write an official proclamation saying “We built a car! Watch it drive! Wow”

[spark valve]

because once it's on in this case it's as simple as aligning the cylinders

[unique tangle]

Yknow wouldn’t 12A contradict herself? She says the “The core remains to sustain the song” in her last words

Quite confidently too

[spark valve]

"This is how we get around, we welcome the opportunity to become its fuel"

[foggy stratus]

I'm starting to think that some of us honestly don't have reading comprehension...

[unique tangle]

Which means she knows it is working

[limpid summit]

So would it not be as simple as kicking the cylinders out of alignment

Pretty sure Lace could do that

[stray grove]

The method doesn’t matter stop repeating yourself

[unique tangle]

Unless that is only in response to Hornet fixing it

[foggy stratus]

You'd have to pull them out then unalign them. And Lace doesnt seem particularly physically powerful.

[stray grove]

Being able to conceive of a method by which GMS could potentially have disabled the core doesn’t make your argument compelling

[unique tangle]

But it doesn’t read like 12A is only saying that cause of Hornet’s actions

[stray grove]

The basic question is not HOW it’s WHY she would do that when it evidently didn’t fucking matter whether it was switched on or not, WHY she would disable it in a way that was easily reversible rather than idk breaking the fucking mechanism and WHY it was operational to begin with when we’re literally told it wasn’t

[limpid summit]

Every single Cogwork animatronic acts as if the core is working they literally did everything and then shuttled off to Whiteward and awakened GMS before the last thing

I don’t understand

[spark valve]

things were happening simultaneously

[limpid summit]

Proof?

[foggy stratus]

Its almost like they're robots made to do certain tasks...

Crazy. I know.

[spark valve]

the choral commandments lol

[limpid summit]

Would you take your impounded wheel-less car to a car wash

[spark valve]

the core one was the last one the whiteward one happened before it

[stray grove]

If you want to stop a car from ever carrying out its intended function you’d pop the wheels you wouldn’t remove the key and place it on the dashboard

[limpid summit]

That’s not an edict of the conductors

[stray grove]

Son

[limpid summit]

It’s not??

[unique tangle]

Whiteward one is just a decree of the citadel

Which seems to imply weaver-era

Given that its tattered and all

[stray grove]

That’s not what he was talking about

[limpid summit]

This is the silk suture one right

[spark valve]

I mean both of them really but also the existence of the immortality projects as pertains to normies in general

[stray grove]

“Things were happening simultaneously look at the choral commandments, the Whiteward shit happened before the Core shit”
“That’s not an edict of the conductors”
???

[spark valve]

they wouldn't initiate that at a point in time where the plan was to all get in the funny robots

[limpid summit]

What is your proof that the Whiteward shit happened before the Core shit

It’s not because the core one is the last one

[spark valve]

the core being their last edict bro

[limpid summit]

Tammo

Choral commandments are not all edicts

[spark valve]

that literally means that i can't

it means it's their last order

the core was the last big project they didn't just decide after that "oh and also nobody is allowed to die so let's do immortality stuff"

[stray grove]

My guy every major decision comes from the conductors people didn’t just decide to start doing shit unprompted

[limpid summit]

You think the covert immortality experiments are encompassed within their edicts

[spark valve]

they're not covert lol

[limpid summit]

The president says this is my last executive order and then he passes a note to a CIA black site

[spark valve]

it's not a cia black site it's a cornerstone of the prominent philosophy about sickness and death

[stray grove]

We’ve gone so far from the original point I’ve forgotten how this even relates to the core shit

But yes Whiteward was not covert nor was there any reason for it to be

[limpid summit]

What

[stray grove]

What

[drowsy sierra]

lets larp

[stray grove]

https://tenor.com/view/spongebob-patrick-water-bottle-bottle-head-gif-27083229

[spark valve]

ok ok why would whiteward be covert

[limpid summit]

Words are unnecessary

[spark valve]

are they tho

[limpid summit]

I’m full

[spark valve]

I see you are satisfied to drink deep of your own foolishness without ever supping at the feast of wisdom

satiety that may bring but not growth

[twin dragon]

Notice how its always about white people

[limpid summit]

Team cherry writing PK as a colonizer

[spark valve]

team cherry writing hornet as a white savior 💀

[twin dragon]

Tc writing white boy joining a mostly black mafia

[crystal marsh]

What

[spark valve]

mostly a joke not nearly the worst stuff she says

it's mostly just platitudes about how she's not like her kin or whatever (undercut by the fact that she is a monster ofc)

[twin dragon]

In like 2 instances yeah but remove that and she's pretty decent

even though her criminal record already includes genocide

[spark valve]

sometimes individual things are bad enough to completely ruin a character

[twin dragon]

Im willing to ignore it for the sake of everything else making sense

[crystal marsh]

the problem is that you can't do that when evaluating the totality of her dialogue

[whole holly]

guys, what are powers of Pale King, like if we deduct from common abilities of Hornet and the Knight

[edgy sentinel]

Well, canonically, without accounting for Hornet and the Knight, we know he has some amount of foresight, and the ability to grant bugs sapience

[whole holly]

i think he should have some soul manipulation and storage, but White Lady is one that bugs me most, we can't discern a lot from her, since Vessels soul manipulation is attributed to having Pale Wyrm as father but not White Lady, which is also Pale Being but Root

[limpid summit]

Soul of Wyrm soul of Root

I think their natural shell is PK yeah

But WL’s implied growth powers (you know) are probably Soul based as well

Vessels just didn’t get much of anything from her

Besides the horns

[foggy stratus]

WL lowkey a bum ngl.

[stray grove]

I mean they did

Having the other parent not be a pale being could compromise the integrity of the shell
Also Vessels are much more adept at wielding Soul than Hornet is

It is also possible that the Root characteristics would have manifested for them later in life but don’t for reasons that are presumably obvious

I don’t know how growth related abilities would be represented in a literal fetus

[whole holly]

HUD that typically showcases crests for hornet like soul meter next to health bar has root like shape around it

[whole holly]

to be fair even hornet got some soul/silk manipulation ability from also being a weaver, unlike weavers she is better as soul manipulation and has longer lifespan

[stray grove]

She’s better than Weavers are yes but still nowhere near as good as Vessels

[limpid summit]

What if the PV void tendrils are actually black roots

[sinful nimbus]

sizeshifting vessel OC

[stray grove]

What if the world was made of pudding

[limpid summit]

Shut up

You weren’t invited to this table

[whole holly]

true

[spark valve]

that would make things pretty tricky in general I gotta imagine

[stray grove]

https://tenor.com/view/jujutsu-kaisen-culling-game-part-1-episode-12-kurourushi-i-like-the-taste-of-iron-special-grade-cursed-spirit-kurourushi-gif-3930129803116875865

[whole holly]

personally i would love to see potential of half root half wyrm if they weren't born in abyss, we would see nature better

[stray grove]

Vessels are probably a good deal stronger this way than they would have been otherwise

They have most of if not all the magical abilities of their pale being heritage and also have super void strength and durability

[limpid summit]

I think a living PV would be stronger than a dead PV

But like TK with VH hell no

[stray grove]

We see a Vessel “raised and trained to prime form”, PV, and I don’t see it being stronger than that

[whole holly]

void doesn't give durability because their physical bodies can't grow out of infant stage, they can't produce their own soul

[stray grove]

That’s kinda irrelevant

[whole holly]

it wouldn't have soul limitations or nearly as limited health, i assume some kind of faster regeneration

[twin dragon]

everyone dies in hk

[stray grove]

They don’t produce their own Soul but as with Hornet most of the Soul they would utilize would likely come from other sources regardless

I don’t know what you mean by “faster regeneration”

They can focus just fine

PV certainly didn’t have low Soul reserves and they can literally refuel mid combat by striking their opponent which is easier when they have enhanced Void physiology

Vessels are literally born with super strength

[whole holly]

Weavers have bind which is better than focus, i assume without void inhibiting them, focus would be better

[stray grove]

No it’s not

Bind is ass

It’s only good when Hornet uses it because Hornet is way better at using it for the same reasons Vessels are good at using Focus

[limpid summit]

Weavers probably couldn’t bind stuff from dead Weavers like Horner does

[stray grove]

Weavers literally have to use their own life energy

[whole holly]

i feel like conversation lost the point

[limpid summit]

Void doesn’t really inhibit vessel spells naturally cause it’s not like outside the body dulling them

[whole holly]

what would be White Lady's powers?

[spark valve]

eh it seems like some wyrm shit but questionable unless hn weavers returned during weaver citadel era

[stray grove]

Void actually enhances their spellcasting

[limpid summit]

I just think like

If you get a major injury as a vessel your shade spills out then what

[stray grove]

Void spells are stronger than the basic versions of spells

[limpid summit]

If you get a major injury as a living child of the PBs maybe you try and heal

[stray grove]

That’s not how it works

[spark valve]

it's not like the shade just leaks out of any cracks

[whole holly]

wdym? broken vessel wouldn't have died if not for void disadvantage

[limpid summit]

Yeah but it leaks out from the body with the head pretty intact

[stray grove]

The integrity of the shell has to be totally compromised for the Shade to burst out

[limpid summit]

And BV

[spark valve]

with the body gone asf

[twin dragon]

POWERSCALING

[stray grove]

We don’t know how BV died

[twin dragon]

whos stronger

sly screaming

[stray grove]

TK can sustain a lot of damage and heal back from it

[twin dragon]

or quiet sly

[spark valve]

bv's mortally wounded in a way that would probably kill anything

[edgy nebula]

screamer sly is better

[stray grove]

I mean yeah if you one shot a non Voided Vessel it would just die too

It’s not like you can heal back if you’re dead

[limpid summit]

Ok look

[edgy nebula]

vessels have hollow eyes why doesn't their shade leak out of it

[stray grove]

Because that’s not how that works

[sinful nimbus]

PV gets severely injured and gains a new weapon so

[edgy nebula]

how does it work

[stray grove]

The shell is magic it’s not a regular container

[limpid summit]

Would the shade leak out

[stray grove]

That is a mortal wound that would probably kill anything so yes

[edgy nebula]

dont watch jjk but that worm thing looks like a chud

[limpid summit]

It is

[edgy nebula]

pk really fell off

[limpid summit]

Okay but wait like why aren’t they the same then

[spark valve]

THK’s shell is a fuckin mess and it can recover

[stray grove]

What’s not the same

[limpid summit]

If a living Vessel (not a vessel but I’m just going to call it one) gets a mortal wound its organs spill out
If a dead one gets a mortal wound its shade spills out

[edgy nebula]

thk was trained to peak strength their shell is probably stronger

[limpid summit]

Where does “Void durability” factor in

[limpid summit]

Growth powers

[stray grove]

They’re probably very durable regardless but Void does definitely enhance their physiology somewhat

[limpid summit]

Proliferation and evolution prompted by Soul absorption

Like rewriting DNA

[stray grove]

The same reason they have super strength

I guess you could claim they always would have had that

[limpid summit]

I mean like

I don’t know

[edgy nebula]

what if wyrm dna is just super prevalent and all of the root dna got flushed out during development

[limpid summit]

I don’t think it’s like Wolverine with an admantium skeleton

The void is inert

It’s not reinforcing the shell

[limpid summit]

Maybe

[stray grove]

It’s not inert Void approximates biology

Like it’s the reason they function as living organisms

[limpid summit]

But would they have bones

TK has muscular pathways

[stray grove]

They have void bones

[limpid summit]

THK

That’s it

But why

[edgy sentinel]

I wouldn't be suprised if the reason why the vessels all have different horn shapes is from the root being all twisty

[whole holly]

i mean other than that? can they manipulated soul? white lady made bindings around herself, can they store soul?

[limpid summit]

Oh I guess PK would have had bones

[whole holly]

me too

[stray grove]

Whatever normal Vessel biology is Void approximates

[limpid summit]

Is it because the body is so infused with Soul that the pathways act like a mould

Man PK was so smart

[stray grove]

Well I don’t know what the mechanics of it are

If I had to guess it’s probably just a result of the imprinting process

[twin dragon]

Pk really did find an all consuming unstoppable force and took it as his own personal play doh

[stray grove]

But yes PK smart and Vessels are very impressive as several NPCs indeed point out

[limpid summit]

Such remarkable contrast yadda yadda

Still don’t like that guy

How did Collector even work really based on what we know about imprints

Proximity sure

[stray grove]

Grimm too

[limpid summit]

But did it just pick up on ambient Soul

[stray grove]

Fine craft dear Wyrm

[limpid summit]

And like

???

How

[stray grove]

What are you talking about

It’s essence not soul

[limpid summit]

Same thing

[stray grove]

Collector was imprinted using the same mould as the other Kingsmoulds presumably

[limpid summit]

Yes

Serve protect whatever

[whole holly]

not really no

[limpid summit]

Did LKB’s essence mess with the mould while the armor was still there

[stray grove]

Then somehow came into contact with LKB and over a long period of time they imprinted each other

[limpid summit]

And then Collector just grew out of it with the added imprint

[stray grove]

You’re asking a question I couldn’t possibly give you an answer to

We don’t even know if Collector got to the armor stage

We don’t know what circumstances led to it coming into contact with LKB

Was it always defective did it escape was it a gift did it go rogue etc

[limpid summit]

I’m asking you to have a little fun

Jeez

[sinful nimbus]

vessels inherited WL eyes and mouth

[foggy stratus]

We don't do that here.

[limpid summit]

How would it not get to the armor stage

[whole holly]

i guess void can be stabilized in a way, it can be given mould with essence and soul, that's why void in shade beast's cup is not volatile

[stray grove]

I’m saying we don’t know

[foggy stratus]

They got PK's eyes.

[limpid summit]

Logically it grew out of the armor stage

[stray grove]

If it was a defective prototype and just ran out of the palace as soon as PK imprinted it then it wouldn’t have got to the armor stage

[whole holly]

they got body of pk

[sinful nimbus]

Nah PK's eyes have weird markings on them

Vessels got the regular ol corpse eyes

[foggy stratus]

Weird lighting.

[limpid summit]

Maybe PK gave his aristocrats Kingsmoulds between the first and second waves

[stray grove]

Why would he do that

[limpid summit]

I’m sure he didn’t expect someone to get close to one

[sinful nimbus]

No its pretty consistent that vessel eyes look like that

[whole holly]

less difference than comparisons white lady's eye

[stray grove]

We don’t see anyone else in possession of them

That would also be extremely irresponsible

Kingsmoulds aren’t pets

[limpid summit]

Yeah but LKB is in QG

[foggy stratus]

"Hm yes I'll give some of my wealthy dickheads body guards with dangerous ass mystery goop making up the body."

[sinful nimbus]

Well yeah they're corpses so they're just empty sockets

[limpid summit]

Maybe he was an attendant to WL or something

[stray grove]

Vessel eyes are actually similar in shape to WL’s eyes

PK has almond shaped eyes

[limpid summit]

Tower of love was a side hustle

[stray grove]

Not round ones

[stray grove]

I mean he was running from Collector

He probably just wanted to get as far away as possible

[whole holly]

i mean, with that logic you can say black limbs of vessels are from white lady and it is only black because of void

[sinful nimbus]

Nah cuz Hornet has the same thing

Also the void has nothing to do with their bodies as shown with broken vessel

[whole holly]

could have been from weavers, who also have black body

[limpid summit]

My guess is

[sinful nimbus]

Also WL doesn't have those limbs

Not even the same logic

[limpid summit]

The Kingsmould was a previously fully operational one that LKB stole or something and brought back

[sinful nimbus]

Vessels and Hornet have the same body plan though

[whole holly]

you could assume she did

[sinful nimbus]

Why would I do that

[whole holly]

same body plan?

[limpid summit]

It got super close to it and messed it up, the added imprint caused its form to change and it grew out of the armor

[sinful nimbus]

Look at them they're pretty much the same

[whole holly]

she was different when she was younger

[sinful nimbus]

why are you assuming that

[whole holly]

she has thinner limbs like weavers

[whole holly]

that she was different when she was younger?

[sinful nimbus]

yes this is a bizarre argument

we can observe that vessel eyes are not the same as PK's so they're probably from WL (but empty) its not that deep

[limpid summit]

We still don’t know what Herrah eyes look like

So yeah

Mix of both

[twin dragon]

maybe pk doesnt have inherited genes

and hes just a fraud

most of the genes are recessive and actually wl is the mastermind

[whole holly]

they are mostly same as pk's and radically different than wl's, and if you are going to assume it is void that messed with structure of eyes and that's why vessel doesn't have eye in socket you could make similar argument for wyrm-adjacent traits, void could have removed wyrm eye markings just as well

[whole holly]

basically children of Void and White Lady

[sinful nimbus]

why would the wyrm eye markings go away upon death that's not observable

it is observable that eyes decompose upon death though

because duh that's how eyes work

[whole holly]

okay maybe vessels have root eye sockets but wyrm eyes

it is impossible to prove any synthesis let alone treat them as facts

[sinful nimbus]

wyrms don't have eyes

[foggy stratus]

They have the eyes of common bugs

[sinful nimbus]

.

They are exclusively sockets which the vessels do not have

So they inherited them from White Lady

[whole holly]

i disagree with that synthesis, eye socket marking could be developed in adulthood, they are basically fetuses

[foggy stratus]

Tree lines.

[whole holly]

lol

[sinful nimbus]

That's just making stuff up though

[whole holly]

so are you? i am outlining very possible case, while you literally make up that their eyes decomposed by void/abyss in their environment

[sinful nimbus]

Eyes decomposing upon death is substantiated

Wyrms developing eyemarkings with age is not and is a random thing you made up to discredit the theory for some reason

[whole holly]

right because vessel death is identical to any other death with no differences

[whole holly]

i am not discrediting theory, developing traits with age is universal principle, especially considering vessels are underdeveloped, it is atypical to assign trait of underdeveloped being to any parent and assert it as fact

[sinful nimbus]

PK doesn't age lol

Vessels probably wouldn't have either

[whole holly]

he is fully developed though? i am talking about vessels

[sinful nimbus]

OK well PV doesn't have the eye markings if you want to go that route

That's a vessel that's developed moreso than even PK

[whole holly]

assuming naturally being fully developed is same as being "raised and trained to prime form."

[whole holly]

do we see close up of PV's eyes?

[sinful nimbus]

Yes

[sinful nimbus]

How else would that work

[whole holly]

and do you have image?

[foggy stratus]

It's*

[whole holly]

we don't have answer to that, but we can't rule out other things either if we can't assert Pure Vessel and Pale King are equally developed?

[sinful nimbus]

You can see it on one of the fangamer illustrations by Ari for PV specifically but its also on THK in cutscenes

Kinda hard to get an image of the fangamer one

[sinful nimbus]

Man what

PV is pretty obviously more developed than PK

Its magic growth

Making up random stuff and technicalities isn't a super compelling way to disprove a theory with actual evidence

[limpid summit]

PK didn’t need to be in “prime form” because it was better for him to look juvenile and like his transformed body probably didn’t have a real life cycle anyway

[near jasper]

Whats the topic rn

[limpid summit]

I don’t know

[whole holly]

did you forget context of which development was discussed?

[sinful nimbus]

That's not an assumption that's just using my eyes bro

[foggy stratus]

I doubt being artificially grown with some unexplained magic is the same as growing at a natural biological pace.

[near jasper]

https://tenor.com/view/hollow-knight-yes-hollow-knight-nodding-yes-the-hollow-knight-gif-13130061661285170163

[sinful nimbus]

Which PK and his offspring notably don't do

[foggy stratus]

Because they're all fucking dead.

And wanna know what the only one who isnt dead does? Grows.

[sinful nimbus]

But if you take the traitors for instance they display traits associated with maturity once their growth is accelerated

Idk how else it would work

[sinful nimbus]

PK and Hornet did not grow

[foggy stratus]

Bro we literally see baby Hornet in red memory.

[sinful nimbus]

OK true

PK probably doesn't though

[foggy stratus]

And Pale King is a God King who changed forms. Not super crazy to imagine he just choose his form to look that way.

[fading shard]

can we appreciate the really impressive seal magic capabilities the pale king has

[foggy stratus]

Yes.

[sinful nimbus]

That's the point yes

So why would his eye marks be associated with maturity (which is already completely baseless and only something Nika made up to disprove a theory he didn't like)

[whole holly]

all i am saying there are many factors of why vessels eyes look different, invalidating age, environment and epigenetics as well as combination of heritable information from WL and PK, and treating some dead eye sockets to be exact same as vessel's dead eyes even though factors differ as well as treating your theory as infallible with undeniable evidence ,even though i outlined my concerns and flaws in your mostly visual evidence, is wild.

[sinful nimbus]

How do factors differ they're both dead lol

Eyes obviously decompose upon death

[foggy stratus]

The death of the Vessels and a normal bugs death are so entirely different its not even kinda funny.

Like dude.

[whole holly]

cause of death? decomposition and hindered development of vessel aren't exactly same

[sinful nimbus]

Did they die in a way where the eyes wouldn't decompose lol

Again making random details and technicalities up isn't an argument

Eyes decompose upon death and vessels don't have PK's eyes so they probably would've inherited White Lady's

[sinful nimbus]

decomposition isn't the "cause of death" what

Why would these factors change how the eyes decomposed

[blissful harbor]

horrible image

[whole holly]

question ended at question mark, i followed it up with a sentence

[sinful nimbus]

https://www.tumblr.com/sevilai/732379282512429056/vessels-born-outside-the-abyss-and-therefore-not

Yo.

Vessels born outside the abyss and therefore not containing any void is that anything

edit: to clear up any confusion this is my take on what Little Ghost would look like jjfhc

-# #mainly I just thought it'd be cool to draw #I wanted to do Hollow too but it would just be Pure Vessel 2.0??? #I'm going to draw so many bugs I don't care how tired I am #my art #hollow knight #hk ghost #hk little ghost #hk vessel #little ghost #digital painting #digital art #Outshine AU

Tumblr · Oct 28, 2023, 12:01 AM

Its kinda tuff ngl

[fading shard]

honestly really love this

[sinful nimbus]

ok how does the cause of affect change how their eyes decomposed

[foggy stratus]

No, not really. The Void inhabited the shell at a point where it didnt gray over like all other old and decomposed shells do upon death. Void in this instance likely preserves the corpse, including the eyes.

[spark valve]

the shells would probably be black when not using soul

[whole holly]

we need to know that variable(cause of death) isn't affecting how eyes are presented in vessels before making claim that it is because of their eyes "decomposing" and originally being similar to WL

[fading shard]

why do we call the vessels infants when their actually reanimated corpses....

[sinful nimbus]

Their cloaks aren't exactly doing too hot either though and if the eyes are preserved that begs the question of where are they

They visibly aren't PK's and Hornet didn't inherit PK's eyes either

[fading shard]

yk how would hornet look if she was the white ladies and pale kings daughter

[sinful nimbus]

Idek if vessels grey over outside of the abyss

Nosk vessels, Broken Vessel, Greenpath vessel

[fading shard]

she got her horns from her mom, and her eye shape from her mom, but what if the white lady was her biological birthgiver

[whole holly]

because two of those aren't mutually exclusive? vessels are reanimated corpses of infant

[foggy stratus]

The cloaks look just fine. And there's the whole "climbing through a pile of your siblings corpses" that could explain the look. Or its just that thats what they naturally look like.

I have to go swim now anyways.

[sinful nimbus]

They're not functional and they don't look like PK's

C ya

[fading shard]

cya

so uhh white lady and pale king couple goals...yeah

[whole holly]

open relationship too it seems

[fading shard]

no??

[whole holly]

sure...

[fading shard]

the white lady still calls the pale kings act a dalliance, just one she accepted and allowed given the situation

[whole holly]

they’re definitely the "we will sacrifice literally everything, including our thousands of children and our own happiness, to keep this project running" kind of goals.

[fading shard]

the pale kings and herrahs deal was made out of desperation, something the white lady understand and had to say she was okay with, because of the situation

[fading shard]

they were a really sweet and great couple nonetheless, especially when the infection wasn't around

and I mean just look at the white ladies statement on how much she loves the guy, she only yearns for him :)

[whole holly]

An "open relationship" and a "one-time dalliance" aren't mutually exclusive at all

[whole holly]

i know i just added to information

[fading shard]

what

[whole holly]

?

[whole holly]

are you gonna just stay stuck at "what"?

[fading shard]

are you trying to say that even a one time thing in a specific situation makes it a open relationship?

[fading shard]

I'm pretty sure that's for when it's consistently open, not for a very particular situation that they are forced to be in

if not then doesn't that just make it a open marriage for like that very small time period

[whole holly]

not inherently

[whole holly]

Yeah, it was only for that small time period. It just proves how secure their bond was, the White Lady was so confident in their love that she could allow a 'dalliance' for the sake of the kingdom without it ruining what they had. It’s an open marriage because they are couple goals.

[stray grove]

What the FUCK are we even talking about gng 🥀

[fading shard]

Okay I'm starting to see what you're getting at nika

[whole holly]

if White Lady and Pale King were in open relationship, i guess

[fading shard]

okay yeah I get it now

[whole holly]

there are many types of it, generally speaking

[finite cave]

i wouldnt slap a label on it but i think they just loved eachother and understood what had to be done

[stray grove]

I mean there is literally no reason to conclude anything about the nature of their relationship

You’re actually just saying shit

[onyx jolt]

lore

whats the lore

being chatted about

[whole holly]

it's not slapping a label, it's just acknowledging nature of relationship to extent we know it in

[whole holly]

there is? the dalliance being reason

[stray grove]

Do you want to read the rest of that quote

And explain to me how it implies they were in an open relationship

[finite cave]

an open relationship is a label but i honestly dont think it matters

[onyx jolt]

ts exactly what happened yo

[stray grove]

It doesn’t matter

[fading shard]

their in general in just a monogomous relation with very specific exceptions

[finite cave]

yeah like when the fate of the kingdom is at stake

[fading shard]

yeah that being the very specific exception

[whole holly]

there are many times of open relationship? a "one-sided one-time open relationship" is still a type of open relationship.

[stray grove]

Ok so you concede that this is literally a meaningless discussion

Actually just saying shit for the sake of saying shit

“Yeah there’s no reason to put a label on it and the label I’m putting on it is arbitrary anyway”

[whole holly]

dude, calm down don't be hostile, wtf? how did open relationship trigger you so much?

[stray grove]

“Calm down” 🤓

I don’t know if you realize this but not everything you read on the internet is a personal attack

[whole holly]

the meaning comes from understanding the characters' motivations. It’s not meaningless because it defines the White Lady’s character.

[stray grove]

I mean no this is just reductive

[spark valve]

imagine discussing whether the pk and wl technically constituted an open relationship when you could be slaying spires

[whole holly]

It’s only reductive if I say that’s all they are. I’m saying the 'open' nature of the deal is a specific window into how the White Lady views duty vs. committed relationship. If we can't use words to describe their relationship dynamics, how are we supposed to analyze their motivations at all?

god forbid i use term to describe something

[stray grove]

First and foremost WL explicitly tells us she never “begrudged” PK’s “dalliance” with Herrah which is also repeatedly described as a bargain including by WL herself so trying to put a technical label on their relationship is completely unnecessary
Secondly no this does not “define” WL’s character nor does this meaningless distinction have any bearing on any of the shit you just claimed

Most pointless HK debate oat????

Nah ts ain’t topping purity

[spark valve]

phantom gender

[stray grove]

True

[whole holly]

The fact that you are typing paragraphs about how "pointless" it is proves that, to you, it's actually not pointless at all, you just doesn't like your conclusion.

[stray grove]

How else do you expect me to articulate that

[whole holly]

i just used applicable term in discussion, why is everyone writing paragraphs about how pointless it it?

[stray grove]

I mean I could just not engage with this if that’s what you’d prefer clearly assuming you were capable of good faith was a mistake on my part sorry

[limpid summit]

Kirb Judas vs Nika Judas

[stray grove]

I guess bro

[whole holly]

good faith is rambling about how pointless something is? if it is truly pointless, why do you care?

[stray grove]

https://tenor.com/view/spongebob-patrick-water-bottle-bottle-head-gif-27083229

Sorry I should have led with this

[whole holly]

It’s not about 'putting a label' on it for the sake of it,it’s about calling a spade a spade. You agree it was a 'bargain' where the King had a 'dalliance' with the Queen's consent. In any other context, we call that a non-exclusive or open dynamic.

You're acting like the word 'Open' is a personal attack, but it’s just the literal description of what you already admitted was a 'monogamous relationship with specific exceptions.' If you're going to spend this much time 'articulating' why the definition doesn't matter, it clearly matters to you quite a bit.

[stray grove]

https://tenor.com/view/patrick-s-patrick-patrick-star-bottle-dumb-gif-1741625486363070335

[whole holly]

assuming you were capable of good faith was a mistake on my part

[limpid summit]

https://tenor.com/view/spongebob-spongebob-meme-spongebob-stupid-spongebob-confusion-spongebob-orb-of-confusin-gif-12715263980655568535

What’s the argument here

[stray grove]

That’s not a Patrick gif

[limpid summit]

I’m different

[spark valve]

I see the discourse has become more intelligible

[whole holly]

"just ran out of constructive things to say time to use patrick gifs" impressive

[stray grove]

https://tenor.com/view/yuta-yuta-okkotsu-rika-jujutsu-kaisen-yuta-jjk-gif-6106836881169266148

[spark valve]

this isn't the gif spam channel

[stray grove]

There are no mods who’s gonna stop me

You?

[spark valve]

just pick a more interesting topic and ignore people clearly not worth paying attention to

[limpid summit]

I think calling PK and WL’s relationship “open” is reductive and trivializes the intricacy of the matter to fit modern definitions

But like

[stray grove]

SHUT UP

[limpid summit]

Idk whatever

[spark valve]

no it's just dumb and doesn't understand the modern definition

[whole holly]

It’s only 'reductive' if you think the label is a substitute for the lore, rather than a description of it. Calling it an open dynamic doesn't take away from the 'intricacy', it highlights it.

It shows that their bond was so intricate and secure that they could incorporate a 'dalliance' as a political necessity without it breaking their marriage. If anything, pretending it was just a 'business transaction' that didn't affect their relationship dynamic trivializes the White Lady's emotional agency. She wasn't just a bystander; she was a partner who sanctioned a non-exclusive act. That is, by definition, an open dynamic.

[stray grove]

This wasn’t the modern definition it was an arbitrary definition (by their own admission) they just made up on the spot

[spark valve]

so ignore them lol

[whole holly]

i provided source for definition??

[spark valve]

if somebody is incapable of saying anything worth responding to just don't respond

[stray grove]

But my Patrick gifs 😔

tbf I only like the bottle one the rest are kinda mid

[stray grove]

Dead Internet theory

[spark valve]

you are all puppets dancing for my entertainment and I embrace that truth

[whole holly]

i am confident that addressing argument gotten so hard that we have to use ai systems to accuse someone of ai systems

[stray grove]

Ok here’s a better topic did PK have eyes

[spark valve]

no

[limpid summit]

No

[spark valve]

that was a lame topic

[limpid summit]

I think he had Eva sight

[stray grove]

Mouthless PK agenda has already been pushed enough

Time for eyeless PK

[limpid summit]

Well he probably had a mouth

But I don’t think he talked through it

[spark valve]

bro is attuned to the flow of soul in the air

[limpid summit]

We consume Isma’s tear

[stray grove]

WL has a mouth

[limpid summit]

She does?

[stray grove]

She speaks normally

Unless it’s like telepathy bro

[spark valve]

it could be

mm is the coolest though

he actually makes noise but the communication is telepathic

oh right silksong retconned that

nvm boring asf

[stray grove]

Retconsong is retconsong

It would be funny if Wyrms were basically just flesh puppets designed to resemble regular bugs despite having no understanding of their actual anatomy

[whole holly]

not pointless at all...

[sinful nimbus]

"agenda" this is just true

[spark valve]

very possible

[spark valve]

inset eyes 🤓

[limpid summit]

Yes it’s a reductive description

That’s what it is

[sinful nimbus]

GMS should've been blind

[limpid summit]

GMS is blind

[sinful nimbus]

She senses stuff through her web like a spider

[stray grove]

Yeah GMS may not have conventional senses either I agree

[limpid summit]

You literally got on my ass for suggesting GMS is blind week 1

[stray grove]

If you had soul sense or whatever the fuck Eva has plus world sense plus the sight why would you need regular vision

[whole holly]

i disagree

[stray grove]

SHE LOOKS AT HORNET

[limpid summit]

She acknowledges hornets presence

She can see…the shape of her soul!

[whole holly]

who needs eyes when you have silken silk

[near jasper]

Gms' fight start animation is so stupid looking ngl

[whole holly]

Radiance was peak, especially Absolute Radiance

[limpid summit]

She turns in hornets direction yeah but all her attacks are wide and sweeping and she isn’t super fast until she knows exactly where you are in her web

[stray grove]

Actually GMS might not have the sight I don’t want her to get the upscale

[whole holly]

Nyleth's is great, at least

[limpid summit]

Then she blitzes you

[near jasper]

She goes down for some reason then just stands there awkwardly screaming without a scream animation

[limpid summit]

She gets perception blitzed by lace

[stray grove]

Foresight > The Sight > Silken Sight (World Sense)

Sightscaling

[sinful nimbus]

they ripped off rad 🥀

[whole holly]

Nyleth's screeches are music to my ears, she actually has corresponding animation

[limpid summit]

Mushroom sight >>>

[sinful nimbus]

I was so mad

[whole holly]

what about insight?

[stray grove]

So true he has meta sense

[near jasper]

Gms has scream animations she just couldnt afford one of her looking forward lmao

[spark valve]

mushroom sight is so bad he sees shit that isn't even there bro

[limpid summit]

Mr mushroom is in fact the Lowest Being because he hallucinates

[whole holly]

true but i am waiting for them to rip off Troupemaster Grimm

[near jasper]

Mr mushroom solos

[limpid summit]

He exists below all

[stray grove]

On a real I actually do headcanon that the sight and foresight are both just more advanced applications of world sense

[limpid summit]

Wouldn’t it be the reverse

[stray grove]

No

Every sight user has world sense and every foresight user has all three

[limpid summit]

Or I wouldn’t conflate the former with the latter two

No

Middle with the last and first

[spark valve]

wl maybe has the sight but not foresight or world sense

[limpid summit]

Eva doesn’t have world sense

[stray grove]

WL has world sense and the sight

[near jasper]

Gms litterally flies and still manages to fall off her arena for 15 seconds

[stray grove]

She does

[limpid summit]

She does?

[stray grove]

Probably yes

[limpid summit]

Oh we’re on Probably now huh

[stray grove]

WL almost certainly does I think

Her being able to sense shit with her roots is just world sense

[whole holly]

isn't she on those "legs"

[limpid summit]

Yeah she has the sight and world sense

[stray grove]

World sense being the least advanced I think has the most potential variations

[limpid summit]

MM has world sense and probably foresight

The sight idk

Maybe

[near jasper]

Shes flying during her fight

[stray grove]

Mister mushroom?

[whole holly]

weird

[stray grove]

Bro he has the sight

[limpid summit]

Yes

[stray grove]

Look at his Hornet dialogue

[whole holly]

no, Moss Mother

[stray grove]

Mask Maker has the sight and world sense

Mister Mushroom is also kinda his own thing tbh

Idk if he has foresight per se

[near jasper]

Gms would be so much more op if she stayed on the platform so she could deal contact damage and wouldnt fall off

[stray grove]

It’s more a vague indication of where to go maybe

Actual foresight might be exclusive to wyrms and we have no idea how it works

[near jasper]

Mister mushroom knows everything

[whole holly]

i hope Lost Mother Silk fight is okay at least

[near jasper]

I told him 20 minutes before act 3

[limpid summit]

Yeah but like that’s precognition

[stray grove]

Mister Mushroom denies having foresight

[limpid summit]

And we can’t actually compare it to foresight/say it isn’t because we don’t know how it worked for PK or what he foresaw

So why not

[stray grove]

Stop being annoying

[limpid summit]

What

[limpid summit]

Bro

[stray grove]

They are clearly different things

[limpid summit]

He says he doesn’t care

That’s different

[near jasper]

Foresight more like snoresight

[limpid summit]

[stray grove]

Foresight is probably broken

[limpid summit]

Who was it who was disgusted by feelspkman

[spark valve]

Me? Certainly you can ask, but I cannot provide good answer. I've no mind for outcomes. Always my vision is too clouded by the present.
Only the journey... the now. For myself, that is the purpose, and as far as my sight can see.
yeah bro he has foresight

[whole holly]

this is how he died, he drank void as diet drink

[limpid summit]

He has no mind for outcomes

That means he can’t just say wow let me look into the future

Could PK do that?

[spark valve]

For myself, that is the purpose, and as far as my sight can see

[limpid summit]

Yeah

For himself

That’s his ideology

[near jasper]

Isnt that litterally saying the present is as far as his sight can see

[stray grove]

Stop taking the piss Apple

[limpid summit]

Okay fine

[spark valve]

larpple

[limpid summit]

I accept this

[stray grove]

Mushroomsight is clearly different to Wyrmsight

[stray grove]

Dude I mentioned this like 5 minutes ago

You just ignored me

[spark valve]

you're missing the tammo factor

[limpid summit]

If Tammo says it it’s true

If you say it eh I need to fact check

I accept this IF you concede that the Shrumals saw a bit of MM in PK’s prescience and that’s why they felt shielded

[stray grove]

Tammo say Colo was actually a Wyrm’s second form

[spark valve]

if I wasn't too lazy I'd dig up the furiousfusion stuff

[stray grove]

In the beginning there were two Wyrms

[whole holly]

i mean, to be honest, that is possible? that could have been why they wanted leader with foresight and why they follow MM's path

[near jasper]

How much silk could you peel from lace before she dies

[stray grove]

Quite a lot I’d imagine

[limpid summit]

Yeah

But I mean they already have a little of that through the MM path

[stray grove]

Lace is like 90% of GMS’ silk consumption atm

[spark valve]

if you feed her into a paper shredder would she die would one scrap become her or would she be all the scraps

[limpid summit]

Maybe they were like “oh when acid blight appears the world is about to end”

[whole holly]

you are on your game lately AppleEgg

[near jasper]

Citadel engineers decinding how big the silk extraction from the gms cocoon would be

[limpid summit]

I think PK just was a more tangible, closer aspect of what they got from MM so they accepted him
Kind of like what people consider drew the Moths away from Rad

[stray grove]

The answer to this question depends on whether you believe the Wraiths are conscious

[limpid summit]

You already know

[stray grove]

If Phantom is just commanding them then Lace dies in the shredder if they’re all Phantom Lace is all the scraps

[spark valve]

nah nah they're not parts of phantom they're projections of her will

[limpid summit]

I think they’re like her shedding

I don’t think she commands them

[stray grove]

Cast in smog and silk 🤓

[whole holly]

i think it is certainly viable

[stray grove]

I guess it’s not necessarily her silk

It could be just silk that’s in the air

[near jasper]

Is lace 1 really big string or a lot of strings

[spark valve]

silk is in the exhaust it's why greymoor is the way it is with the harvesting

[stray grove]

Silk is everywhere

[whole holly]

lot of strings, me thinks

[limpid summit]

Yeah lot of strings

[near jasper]

Lace spaghetti

[limpid summit]

I don’t think she can unravel into one string

[stray grove]

Ok then I think Lace just dies

[limpid summit]

But I do think Hornet could wear her like the Jake suit

[stray grove]

If PK was unraveling GMS by focusing her at what point would she die

[whole holly]

if she can change her form, certainly

[spark valve]

she's too fragile for that to be worthwhile probably

[limpid summit]

That’s true

Maybe just a big punchy glove or something

[near jasper]

19 layers into the black part

[whole holly]

hornet is already "wearing" eva but inside, she binded her as superpower

[limpid summit]

Could PK absorb GMS without messing him up

[stray grove]

Or would PK just focus her all in one go

[stray grove]

Yeah probably

[limpid summit]

I think a Vessel could cause Void would tear her up

[spark valve]

obviously

[near jasper]

"hornet is already "wearing" eva[...]"

[spark valve]

bro can handle the power of a god without evil genes taking over like hornet

although hornet's already evil

[stray grove]

Malleable nature 🤓

[whole holly]

i mean technically she is empowered by her? is eva wearing hornet?

[stray grove]

In the cut strung to serve ending the evil GMS in control of Hornet’s body develops more Wyrm like traits so we all know which is more dominant

[near jasper]

Its weird the only example of binding a living person into a crest is gms

[stray grove]

If it’s strength of Soul PK destroys her I mean he literally has infinite Soul if it’s a force of will thing he also just beats her

PK must’ve had insane willpower to do the shit he did fuck does GMS do

Sit around all day and be a bum

[sinful nimbus]

this one is actually tuff

[spark valve]

malleable nature is cool

[stray grove]

Yeah

[whole holly]

i think if Grand Mother Silk replaced White Lady as Pale King's wife hypothetically, Radiance would be beaten

[limpid summit]

Picking on fodder

Actually she couldn’t even kill the heads

Hearts

[whole holly]

that's White Lady

[stray grove]

If Radiance could be beaten PK would solo her

But she can’t

[limpid summit]

Eh

Even if PK had a 70% chance to beat Rad he wouldn’t have done it

I don’t know if we can say who was stronger

He had every reason not to fight

[stray grove]

Their powers were not compatible

[near jasper]

Radiance vs all 5 great knights who wins

[stray grove]

Like neither of them could kill each other it doesn’t matter who else is joining the fight unless it’s idk LoS

[limpid summit]

I think he did fight Rad and she’s copying his spells

[whole holly]

not beated beaten, but outsmarted, if Pale King agreed to Haunting she could projected her will to Resist's Radiance's Infection, Beacon and Haunting could overpower Radiance and repress her memory forcing everyone to forgot or not think about her

[limpid summit]

Why does she use daggers and nails

[stray grove]

??????? Larp

[whole holly]

considering she survived by hush whispers of faith

[stray grove]

Genuinely what

[spark valve]

if you're conjuring things to attack with blades just make sense?

[limpid summit]

Why not big hammers

[stray grove]

His spells aren’t even like that

[near jasper]

Just conjure a nuke are radiance is stupid

[stray grove]

And if you did want to make the claim she was copying his spells she has access to THK’s mind

Who also knows those spells

So it would be that and not a result of her copy technique that she used in her domain clash with PK

[near jasper]

Would trobbio be orange in hallownest

[stray grove]

Yeah he’d probably get infected

[acoustic imp]

His dreams are too big.

[near jasper]

How long could zote survive in pharloom

[stray grove]

Why doesn’t she just summon a giant meteor to crush TK or get rid of the floor

[stray grove]

I mean Pharloom is less dangerous than Hallownest and he survived that with some luck

[whole holly]

he would figure out way to not get infected

[stray grove]

He also managed to navigate the wastes

He’d probably be fine in bum land

[whole holly]

Bumloom

[near jasper]

I can see zote appearing in high halls in the gauntlet room to trash talk the citadel

[whole holly]

why is isma a bum compared to nyleth?

[whole holly]

member of Five Great Knights, but that doesn't say a lot about her at all

[stray grove]

Isma isn’t a bum we just don’t see her do anything and she’s at an earlier stage of their life cycle also acting like Nyleth isn’t a bum herself lmao

Wanderer Isma was almost certainly the better combatant

[near jasper]

How does garmond enter the citadel

[whole holly]

we fight her, at least, and would bum have Seth as Guardian? i don't think so

[stray grove]

Seth is also a bum

[limpid summit]

PV holds its nail wrong there’s no way it beats Hornet

[stray grove]

And has no reason to exist actually

So yes

[whole holly]

yea, honestly? his village fell to haunting after all

[spark valve]

the door probably

[limpid summit]

Man you know Quirrel’s flea scores would be amazing

[acoustic imp]

or bilewater

[whole holly]

how dare you? Seth is better fight than Lost Lace

[stray grove]

I think he broke through a window

[stray grove]

Ok here’s a good one

[whole holly]

i don't think he would participate

[stray grove]

Seth (Voice empowered) vs Quirrel (Mask empowered)

[limpid summit]

PV wouldn’t fight Hornet

[spark valve]

he's too strong he would cut clean through the fleas ending the game immediately as the caravan does first aid

[whole holly]

???

[limpid summit]

Um

Probably Quirrel he’s just so fast

[stray grove]

Quirrel speed blitzes it was a trick question

[limpid summit]

And presumably has great nail technique

[whole holly]

Shakra solos both

[stray grove]

Good answer nephew!

[acoustic imp]

thou cannot slandereth seth

[limpid summit]

Did Hu have the Seth Shakra golden aura

[stray grove]

Shakra is also a Quirrel victim

All of Pharloom is

[near jasper]

Slow ass rings vs guy with a commically large shield

[whole holly]

in fight? i don't think so

[sinful nimbus]

voice empowered 🥀

[limpid summit]

Does Quirrel beat Traitor Lord

[whole holly]

i mean Shakra's fight techniques as so great

[spark valve]

karm might have a shot

[whole holly]

probably

[near jasper]

Yeah

[acoustic imp]

do you think a bug could throw rings that fast with their arms

[limpid summit]

Prep time

[stray grove]

Blood lusted speed equalized

[near jasper]

No shakra spits them out

[whole holly]

"Voice" quoting cut content to gass up seth

[stray grove]

Maybe but I’m not sure

[acoustic imp]

..then doth hornet do the same?

[near jasper]

Yeah

[stray grove]

Well Hornet says Karm is as skilled as she is

But Hornet isn’t very skilled honestly

[limpid summit]

Yeah as skilled

[acoustic imp]

couldn't even beat the roaring knight

[limpid summit]

Like if a buff guy is also good at video games and he says to a skinny guy you’re as skilled as me

[spark valve]

she's s tier in pharloom but like B tier in hallownest

[whole holly]

Roaring Knight? we found his identity

[limpid summit]

No she’s A tier

Gotta be

[stray grove]

Hmm maybe

[near jasper]

This is what hornets horns look like on the inside

[limpid summit]

S tier is HBs

[spark valve]

nah that's gks and sly

[whole holly]

she is trained by Vespa, of all people

[limpid summit]

PV is top A tier

[stray grove]

A tier would be GKs and like Sly

Yeah

[spark valve]

we're talking combat pv is S

[stray grove]

PV would be S for combat so would TK pre VH

[whole holly]

okay Lost Lace is definitely stronger than most of GKs

[limpid summit]

LoS is SS with enough control it just has unlimited void

[limpid summit]

Uhhh

Lost lace is probably a bit below Hornet