sk-lore

[stray grove]

What I was getting at with the infection thing is I don’t think PK was actually aware of them doing that

[spark valve]

Then call the guards

[limpid summit]

No tjere are

Off the top of my head the cas are big

Caps

[spark valve]

For the infection to matter it would have to be second wave which you know blockade

[stray grove]

The guards were also probably corrupt

Rich people got to do whatever they wanted

[spark valve]

Just sayin shit

[whole holly]

i wonder if infected bugs would eventually eat Mister Mushroom

[stray grove]

Oh come on CoT was definitely fucked up

[limpid summit]

Pretty sure he’d readjust

[stray grove]

We see Warriors were getting processed in the kitchen

[whole holly]

then he will be re-digested

[spark valve]

Sure but inequality and the right side being able to do literally whatever they want are super different

[stray grove]

I mean they were eating people

[spark valve]

Fanon

[stray grove]

There are shrumal warriors in the kitchen

[twin dragon]

poggy thorax is very much sapient man

idk

justice for poggy thorax jr

[limpid summit]

“Poggy thorax dialogue means they ate people” can’t a fat dude just be the life of the party

[stray grove]

Poggy seems sapient but whether or not he actually was is debatable

[limpid summit]

Wdym was

[stray grove]

He was also maybe not food

[twin dragon]

I mean he has a ghost that can talk to you

[limpid summit]

Yes ofc he was sapient

[spark valve]

Poggy thorax is neither necessarily sapient or food

[twin dragon]

fym not sapient

[limpid summit]

You mean eaten?

What

[stray grove]

Yes

[limpid summit]

I’ve never heard this line of thought

[stray grove]

I was talking about the shrumals

[limpid summit]

Nubbie bear with me

[whole holly]

how?

[stray grove]

Not everything with dialogue is sapient dn can translate thoughts

[limpid summit]

He’s literally got a rich guy mustache

[limpid summit]

He’s a ghost

[stray grove]

Doesn’t matter

[limpid summit]

Are there other examples of this

[twin dragon]

I would imagine poggy thorax king's kind was specifically bred to be like that, even mentions he kinda was told to be this way

[stray grove]

Irrelevant

[whole holly]

eat the rich movement is a infection confirmed

[stray grove]

Poggy being sapient and also food is one possibility

There’s genuinely no way to be sure

[whole holly]

that's definitely strong implication

[limpid summit]

What no lma

[twin dragon]

are there ghosts that cant talk to us

[limpid summit]

How is it irrelevant if you’re making this claim that a Crawlid would think talk to you in full sentences if it manifested as an Essence ghost

[twin dragon]

like they cant communicate

[stray grove]

Now I don’t think that he wasn’t food because there are a bunch of poggy bodies in the kitchen that were presumably there to be processed

[limpid summit]

The Poggies are all smart

[stray grove]

And him not being sapient would be strange

But it’s not impossible

[limpid summit]

So you’re just playing dumbass devils advocate

I hate you

[stray grove]

I was focusing on the shrumals for this reason

That they were eating shrumal warriors means it would probably not be a stretch to say they were doing a bit of cannibalism also

[spark valve]

nah man

[stray grove]

Since both the warriors and poggies are sapient

[spark valve]

Shrumals are a super different situation

[twin dragon]

Were shrumals even like

allowed to be there

to eat their own kind

[limpid summit]

Probably not

Or if they were they wouldn’t want to

Shrumals wouldn’t participate in a society where people all thought differently

It would suck

[stray grove]

How

[twin dragon]

deadass shrumals are rightmaxxing

[spark valve]

They’re not individuals they’re part of a hive mind

[stray grove]

Do you think those eating them cared about that distinction

[limpid summit]

Imagine eating a dude and his bro can feel it

[spark valve]

It’s relevant to the moral implications of the act

[stray grove]

The warriors could’ve said “hey stop eating me” or called the guards or something but no they just let themselves get eaten

[stray grove]

I mean ofc but I’m talking about intent here
There is a lot about the hive mind we don’t understand the implications could also be far more terrifying

[whole holly]

Guards who likely overwhelmingly defend high society of City of Tears residents

[stray grove]

That’s what I said

[twin dragon]

is the hive mind even like

sapient

[stray grove]

Yes

[spark valve]

Yes

Mushrooms have one shared mind and identity

[stray grove]

But also like for all we know when one of them gets eaten all of them can feel it

That’s fucked up

[twin dragon]

eternally destined to scream WHEAAA

to intruders

[twin dragon]

Can they really feel it, they dont even bulge when im massacring their children

[stray grove]

We don’t know if they did or didn’t

But there was likely not much they could do about that regardless

If you’re talking about the in game events they’re infected

And they still try to protect their children

[spark valve]

Any being like the shrumals would have insane pain tolerance

[limpid summit]

Imagine being born a shrumeling immediately you can feel the pain of all Shrumals

[twin dragon]

Interestingly enough bees are said to not be affected much because of them being a hivemind, shouldnt it be similar to shrooms

[stray grove]

I don’t think the CoT guys eating the Shrumals were necessarily aware of the hive mind and if they were aware of it they probably didn’t care

[limpid summit]

No not exactly

Bees are affected it’s just sort of familiar to them

[spark valve]

Just watch pluribus bro

[limpid summit]

Shrumals were never directed by an external mental force

TRUE

[stray grove]

Like yeah moral implications whatever but I don’t think these guys are above cannibalism

If eating the poggies can be called that

[twin dragon]

Not cannibalism but sapiophagy

as there are loads of species

[spark valve]

in the context of a fantasy setting cannibalism as a concept generally extends to all sapient things

[stray grove]

In which case eating the shrumals is also cannibalism

[spark valve]

but a special case with mitigating moral factors

[stray grove]

It’s not as bad but still pretty fucked up and I really don’t think the rich CoT guys sat down and debated this before going “yeah it’s not as bad let’s do it”

Like they still didn’t need to do that lol

[spark valve]

you're assuming the shrumals didn't consent

[stray grove]

Yeah you’re right

Maybe they consented to being eaten there’s no way to be sure
There’s also no way to be sure that the poggies were sapient or that they were food

But like I feel the intent seems pretty obvious

To not at least acknowledge this being a viable reading seems a little disingenuous

[twin dragon]

theres also no way to know whether they were actually food or had a special invitation but some butcher confused them with meat n chopped them up

[stray grove]

We see this species that are known to be territorial and protective of their young and we see this ghost who talks about how he’s been fattened up to be as scrumptious and oily as possible with a bunch of identical bugs piled up in a kitchen where meat was processed

[twin dragon]

the implication is there

even if not directly spoonfed to you it's logical to assume that poggy thorax was gonna get some good seasoning

[spark valve]

poggy thorax is a pig

[stray grove]

And whether or not pigs are sapient in this universe is unclear

But the implication is there

[twin dragon]

bug

[spark valve]

assuming the pig is sapient is weird

[limpid summit]

He’s a piglike bug

He’s literally TALKING

It’s a metaphor

[stray grove]

If he was just a normal ass pig like gruzzers are cows then not seeing them anywhere else is also weird

[limpid summit]

Rich dudes are pigs

[twin dragon]

Sapient bug that's a nod to pigs

[stray grove]

It’s just this super secret upper class kitchen

[spark valve]

dream nail does that

[limpid summit]

WHEN???

[stray grove]

I agree Tammo but like

Come on

[spark valve]

All the time 😭

[foggy stratus]

What's going on?

[twin dragon]

tammo is there anything directly confirming that silksong isnt hornet's dream after the canon ending sealed siblings

[spark valve]

no

[limpid summit]

It does not translate the thoughts of nonsapient bugs into full sentences

[stray grove]

DN does translate thoughts Apple we see it when DNing anything

[twin dragon]

therefore it could be

[limpid summit]

Nonsapient bugs don’t manifest as Essence ghosts

[spark valve]

this isn't remotely similar lol

[limpid summit]

That is literally what it is

[foggy stratus]

Does it do that with the mushrooms?

[spark valve]

'the pig coded thing is analogous to a pig'

[limpid summit]

The old stag is a horse

[stray grove]

Yeah

[foggy stratus]

It doesn't translate shrumish.

[spark valve]

and if all we had of his dialogue was dream text it would be a reasonable thing to consider if he is or isn't actually intelligent

[stray grove]

You’re right in saying we can’t be 100% sure but Apple is also making a valid point here

That poggy is pig coded isn’t a good reason to disregard the notion of him being sapient when other animal coded things are

[limpid summit]

Skroink! You look pretty skinny. Very scrawny. That's the way to be I reckon.

Just look at me! A great big, juicy, fatty, oily... scrumptious bug. No wonder I'm so popular around here.

I've been waiting an awfully long while. Surely it's dinner time soon?

Do you really think these are the thoughts of an actual pig who cannot speak

Tammo

He’s just a stupid rich guy

[spark valve]

I'm not saying it's impossible poggy is sapient I'm just questioning the assumption

[stray grove]

He forms an essence ghost and speaks in full sentences even if it’s technically possible it would be a very unique case

[limpid summit]

Yes a very unique case

[stray grove]

I mean yeah you can question it but I think the implication is there

Also if he was a regular animal bred as livestock why don’t we see him anywhere else

Gruzzers are everywhere

[limpid summit]

You’re asking the wrong questions

[spark valve]

we don't actually see any pens at all, gruzzers can fly and would spread more readily/may still have wild variants like wolves vs dogs

[stray grove]

I mean the shit that was going on in PH is clearly presented as being not normal

Rancid eggs shrumals and poggies are all not normal people food

[spark valve]

rancid eggs are the 'rich people eat weird stuff' joke

poggies might also be a delicacy

gruzzers and mushrooms seem real plentiful

[stray grove]

Concluding that the shrumals consented to being eaten and that the poggies were either not food or not sapient is really weird idk

[twin dragon]

poggies are the rich people that eat weird stuff, that also get eaten as the weird stuff

[stray grove]

Like there’s no real reason to assume that

[limpid summit]

Poggygate

[stray grove]

The presentation is that it’s a secret kitchen that was out of the way where rich people engaged in weird shit

In that kitchen we see members of a sapient species known to be territorial and protective of their young being processed

[spark valve]

rich people don't wanna watch the food be made they want it made then carried out to them while they listen to marisa or whatever it's not that weird for the actual kitchen to be tucked away

[stray grove]

We also see a ghost who speaks in full sentences about how he’s getting fattened up for the slaughter and a bunch of identical bugs being processed

This is just what we’re shown

[spark valve]

we're

minor spelling error I win

[stray grove]

What leads to the conclusion that the sapient mushrooms consented and that the poggies were either not sapient or not food

[limpid summit]

Are vessels actually skinny by bug standards

Or is he just not

[stray grove]

I mean they’re small

[spark valve]

they're skinny

[plain ruin]

It’s not like they’ve ever eaten anything

Makes sense that they’d be skinny

[stray grove]

Hornet is also skinny

PK was also probably skinny

[spark valve]

this is like the average hallownest body type

[stray grove]

Ofc none of them eat anyway

[plain ruin]

Hornet’s also a Weaver, Weavers were damn pencils

[stray grove]

She doesn’t have the weaver build

She has the PK build

[spark valve]

pk has some dominant ass genes

[plain ruin]

Aside from Herrah but who knows how that happened

[limpid summit]

Are there any indications of beauty standards in HK

Like for dudes

[spark valve]

herrah's probably skinny

[limpid summit]

What makes a good looking dude

[stray grove]

What is bro getting at

[plain ruin]

Bretta?

[limpid summit]

It’s Zote

[stray grove]

PK was a good looking dude that’s all I can say

[plain ruin]

And the Knight

Also Salubra

[twin dragon]

giant ass head

[stray grove]

I don’t think Bretta is focused on TK’s physical appearance

Or Zote’s for that matter

And Salubra is weird

That’s not how I’d interpret that

[spark valve]

salubra's playing the shopkeeper

talking up charms, "oh you're so stylish how are you not wearing the latest trends?"

[stray grove]

Vessels actually look really weird and off putting

It’s like uncanny valley probably

I imagine the same was true of PK

[spark valve]

well no salubra does actually sense the divinity from the knight because she herself is a pale touched entity

[limpid summit]

Yeah I mean they don’t move their mouths

I wonder if TK looks cool

[plain ruin]

They don’t even speak

They just stare

[stray grove]

Why would they

They don’t use their mouths for anything

[limpid summit]

No character really makes reference to TK being creepy

Maybe it has like minor idle movements we don’t see

[stray grove]

Hunter says Vessels are creepy and a bunch of people comment on it being a little weird

[limpid summit]

Yeah a little quiet

[plain ruin]

Lemm mentions something about its appearance

[stray grove]

No it’s just weird

[limpid summit]

Hunter doesn’t say they’re creepy

The shape of this creature... I have seen something like it before. More than once, perhaps. It looks a little like the bugs of Hallownest, but not quite the same. Where did these empty little wanderers come from?

God the HJ entries in HK had so much sauce

THK entry Rad entry ugh

[stray grove]

It’s uncanny

You know what I meant

[limpid summit]

Yeah uncanny

[twin dragon]

Yeah hunter magically knows everything

[spark valve]

he doesn't

[limpid summit]

When he muses on a topic related to the being without mentioning them specifically he hasn’t seen them

[stray grove]

Most people are able to look at TK and go hmm there’s something off about this little guy

Pale thing etc

[limpid summit]

That’s Tiso being weird though

[stray grove]

People like Lemm Cornifer Tiso do comment on its appearance

[stray grove]

There’s obviously something uncanny about Vessels and Tiso is right to comment on that

Nobody is that white it’s a very unnatural colour

[twin dragon]

He does assume some shit that is a lil bit too close to being the actual truth but that's tk making hunter's journal useful

[stray grove]

He has some generic musings that TK matches up to what it think fits the best

Canonically that’s what the journal is he just has a bunch of disorganized notes and TK deciphers it by relating the shit he says to the creatures it encounters

But Hunter is also a very observant guy and he’s pretty smart

He’s also been here for a while

Him hitting the mark on a couple things isn’t weird

[dapper willow]

team cherry had to tell the lore somehow

[spark valve]

lugoli establishing he was right all along about soul 🔥 🖊️

[limpid summit]

The light, forgotten.

[stray grove]

Lugoli ❤️

[limpid summit]

Man I love base game

What HAPPENED

[spark valve]

7 years

[stray grove]

The bottom half of that entry is cool too

“the light that screams out from the eyes of this dead Kingdom”

If Hornet wrote this entry what would she say

[sinful nimbus]

somehow this PK's fault

[limpid summit]

True

[stray grove]

I mean it is PK’s fault

[limpid summit]

To quell the mother's rage, and see this kingdom saved, I will claim her back. This one... the dark shall not take.

Who did the dark take

Like the normal blackthreaded bugs?

[stray grove]

Garmond

[limpid summit]

Ah

[twin dragon]

garmond or tk possibly

[stray grove]

Not TK lol

[twin dragon]

why

[spark valve]

it might be intended as a reference to the vessels but if so it's awkward

[stray grove]

TK wasn’t taken by the dark it is the dark

[near jasper]

Whats the topic rn

[twin dragon]

Does hornet have this impression

[stray grove]

Yes

[twin dragon]

She saw his corpse and didnt see wtv was going down inside of thk

[stray grove]

Her post VH dialogue in HK

[twin dragon]

"corpse"

[stray grove]

No

[plain ruin]

“The heart of the infection, the scourge of my father’s kingdom… it seems the task falls to me. I simply hope I have what it takes to succeed in ending this stasis, allowing this dead kingdom to finally die.”

[stray grove]

She knew it wasn’t dead

Also it literally saved her

(In DNM)

[spark valve]

hornet knows about void heart and allat she deliberately set the knight on that path

[twin dragon]

when

[stray grove]

Hornet was entirely submerged in Void

How do you think she survived that

[limpid summit]

Why didn’t THK just pierce its own head so TK could get in

Or did Hornet use a spell

[near jasper]

She parried

[limpid summit]

A rune

[spark valve]

and inside the black egg when it fuckin exploded

[stray grove]

She also got caught up in that big ass explosion

Yeah

Why didn’t TK save her from the citadel guys

[twin dragon]

its also weird because

tk shed its body in the dream

n it spawned outside

[near jasper]

Sleepy

[foggy stratus]

TK is in enough control to make it not hurt her.

[sinful nimbus]

What happened to its world sense bro

[stray grove]

When THK exploded everything that was inside the dream got ejected

That’s also why there’s so much Void there

It wasn’t there before

[twin dragon]

isnt it because of the temple's composition

[stray grove]

No

[limpid summit]

Well

[stray grove]

The temple is stone

[limpid summit]

No

People say it might be coated with void on the inside because of the weird geometry

[twin dragon]

Is it because of the draining seals

[limpid summit]

Shrug

[twin dragon]

not because of the void

[limpid summit]

Regardless they’d just mix

[stray grove]

People say a lot of baseless shit

[twin dragon]

hornet says smt about it

i dont quite remember

[limpid summit]

Yes

[stray grove]

The temple is obviously magic but there’s no indication Void was used in its construction

[spark valve]

citing consensus with the fandom that apparently once generally agreed hornet was void 💔

[twin dragon]

when

tammo it didnt happen

[plain ruin]

No way

[twin dragon]

it was always a running gag

[limpid summit]

That once generally agreed Herrah wasn’t a Weaver

[plain ruin]

There’s no way it was a general consensus

[stray grove]

No it was not always a running gag

[twin dragon]

we didnt know

[stray grove]

You might not remember

Or maybe you weren’t part of the community then

But people were serious about Hornet Void

[limpid summit]

This was before my time but yes it like took mossbag’s video

[twin dragon]

was it in the very early days?

i mean tbf likely common assumptions about the lore now might change later

what we have about sk

[plain ruin]

Wait, no, I believe it now

[stray grove]

It was the similar source line

[twin dragon]

mossbag's video on sk is a crackpot

[stray grove]

People assumed it was void and that shit spread

[spark valve]

nah the ss misconceptions are probably never gonna change

[stray grove]

Because HK fans can’t read

[plain ruin]

People believed Pollip to be good and still believe Snitch Pick to be bad. People could’ve believed Hornet and Zote to be void and vessel

[stray grove]

Some people still believe Zote being a child of PK/WL

[twin dragon]

Yeah hornet mentions bindings

when talking about her not being able to be in the temple

not void

[plain ruin]

No longer the majority opinion, though

[twin dragon]

man people like making shit up

[plain ruin]

If it ever was

[twin dragon]

zote IS a child of them though, he's a god remember

[near jasper]

Zote is a hb

[plain ruin]

Zote is a Hunk of Burning love?

A Hunk, a Hunk of Burning love?

[near jasper]

Zote gets a gold statue in godhome, like absolute radiance, this is because they're the same power

[sick tinsel]

zote is the supreme god of bugs

even the shade lord would bow for him

[sick tinsel]

hes probably the same species as elderbug

[low moon]

Still waiting for HK - Zoteboat

[sick tinsel]

it was renamed to sea of sorrow, to represent zote sadness after bretta left

[low moon]

Ohhhhhh

It all makes sense now

[near jasper]

False

Precept Four: 'Forget Your Past'.
The past is painful, and thinking about your past can only bring you misery. Think about something else instead, such as the future, or some food.

[sick tinsel]

precept 43 : never forgive

[bronze mortar]

Precept 56: uhh ahhh uhh awwwww mmmmm lar lar lar hr

[near jasper]

Do not dream

[bronze mortar]

[swift needle]

https://tenor.com/view/ishowspeed-city-boy-aura-monster-subaru-natuski-mario-gif-2906700990866198539

[sharp sorrel]

what happened to eva/widow/first sinner when hornet bound them?

[floral quiver]

Subsumed and their knowledge, memories, power and abilities became hers.

[kindred ingot]

they became part of her, losing their individuality and becoming part of a greater whole (Hornet)

[calm token]

he is more then a god

[night yacht]

snilk snong

[uneven narwhal]

I’m confused, how is the abyss so huge compared to the one in HK? And how is it even in pharloom I thought the abyss was only in hollowest since the pale king made his kingdom there and it was there where all the vessels fell into

[twin dragon]

Apparently its everywhere now

but i dont think theres any mention of it being only in hallownest

[uneven narwhal]

Retcon?

[uneven narwhal]

It was js my speculation on it

[twin dragon]

maybe

[foggy fractal]

yeah I don't think its a retcon I can't remember any mention of pk building Hallownest because the abyss was there plus Hornet says "A creature long familiar to me. I suspect that no matter how far I travel, if I descend deep enough they will always be there." about the shadow creeper which implies that the abyss exists basically everywhere so long as you dig deep enough kind of like a core to the earth thing

[twin dragon]

A retcon can be additional info

in this case it is

[dapper willow]

people have speculated before silksong that the abyss was everywhere

silksong just confirmed it

aslo the sk abyss is not much bigger than the hk abyss

[foggy fractal]

is it even bigger

[uneven narwhal]

Yeah in HK it was like 5 rooms with a large beacon while in silksong it’s a whole area

[dapper willow]

a little bit yes
depends on if you count the escape path

the hk abyss is like 4 rooms

but the hk abyss spanned a lot of area, with bigger rooms

[uneven narwhal]

Hmm I mean there are enemies similar to creepers in silksong (I forgot its name but it’s basically a similar bug that shoots out spikes) perhaps she was referring to them? Maybe the creeper reminded her of that bug

[foggy fractal]

the shadow creepers are literally in silksong like its the same enemy https://hollowknight.wiki/w/Shadow_Creeper_(Silksong)

tc is so lazy smh!!!

[twin dragon]

ts is why act 3 is mid

[uneven narwhal]

Yeah ik but there’s similarities between these two and they’re quite similar to crawlids in og hollow knight, so I think she could be referring that no matter where she goes she still sees this bugs (could be that they’re adapting to their environment or smh)

Or I could be tweaking lmao

[foggy fractal]

yeah I think you're overcomplicating it

shes pretty specific with her entry on the shadow creepers "A creature long familiar to me. I suspect that no matter how far I travel, if I descend deep enough they will always be there."
its not like she compares it to anything else

[uneven narwhal]

Ahh aight

[uneven narwhal]

Although if the abyss is everywhere in HK, could this suggest that others are aware of the ancient civilization? Since pale king discovered it and even took some of their technology (like the soul totems you find around in HK) or did only the pale king managed to discover the abyss?

[foggy fractal]

well we know that some weavers were aware of it

weavenest absolom and all

[twin dragon]

they did nothing w that btw

[foggy fractal]

Only a fool believes that void can be fashioned to do their bidding.

[twin dragon]

pk absolutely did btw

hornet fact check your shit

[foggy fractal]

hence why people clown Hornet for it

[calm token]

its theorized that void killed him in the end

cause we see void seeping out all the guards who were made of void

[foggy fractal]

even if that was true how would Hornet know that

[twin dragon]

pk's eyes arent overflowing with void doe

[dire lynx]

PK died of guilt, there isnt anything substantial to suggest void was involved in his death

[craggy smelt]

people give Hornet shit for that line but a) the Void ultimately didn't do what PK hoped it would and b) she'd just seen an entire kingdom being devoured by it after an attempt to use it solve a similar problem
so she might not be all that well-disposed to the idea of making use of the Void in clever-clever ways

[whole holly]

plus Kingsmoulds broke down, so many vessels died, hornet saw them as largely pointless mitigations to a problem that Knight managed to solve with overcoming his own origins

[dire lynx]

it did though, both the kingsmoulds and wingmoulds worked exactly as intended

just because the vessels failed to work in the way PK expected doesnt mean that he failed to fashion the void to his bidding, he absolutley did

[craggy smelt]

the moulds were the results of PK's experiments in harnessing the Void, but the ultimate goal of that was the vessels and the salvation of Hallownest, which didn't work out
and we see what happens when the Void rampages out of control on a mass scale
maybe the moulds would have worked forever
but I think the overall opinion Hornet has is that messing with the Void is just a bad idea
and so her comment re. the moulds is meant to convey this attitude - "You can play around with your little toys, but it was inevitably going to end in disaster."

(and also she might just have some unresolved negative feelings about her dad and anything he gets up to)

[dire lynx]

thats not what the entry says though, especially since the context is on the constructs of the king

"A crude construct of my father's fallen domain. Only a fool believes that void can be fashioned to do their bidding."

shes talking about the mould as if it were a failed experiment where it wasnt

[whole holly]

PK's bidding was sealing Radiance which failed, though second sentence is separate which ties to full context of the game

[dire lynx]

i think the entry is playing more into this, than giving any kind of factual opinion on controlling void

[whole holly]

Collector's existence is proof that Void can't reliably be fashioned to do Pale King's bidding anyways

[craggy smelt]

again, I think that the mould is prompting her to express a more general opinion about the Void

this is like
"The Pocket Torment Nexus works perfectly. Therefore, objections about building the Torment Nexus are unwarranted."

[crimson bison]

Hey guys, where can I read the lore for SK?

[dire lynx]

idk what this is

[dire lynx]

wiki has all the lore tablets and dialogue on it

[crimson bison]

I read the lore for hk on that site, but I couldn't find much about SK.

[dire lynx]

https://hollowknight.wiki/w/Hollow_Knight_Wiki

[crimson bison]

thankls

[empty scarab]

if silk is refined soul, why does adding soul to silk skills with shaman make them stronger

[drowsy sierra]

i think it because your just adding more soul

silk is just more refined but adding more soul still is more soul

[empty scarab]

hm

just more quantity...

fair enough

[drowsy sierra]

yeah..

[autumn umbra]

so what's the deal with the bells anyway

are they magical

do they repel Silk

the whole Songclave bell repelling the Haunting, the Warding Bell protecting you, the discarded idea that you had to ring bells to weaken GMS or you got a bad ending....

so the Weavers got Forge Home people to build a song of bells that'd repel GMS instead of a thread one which empowers her?

does that sound right

all magic in both games comes from either Essence, Soul or Void. where does bell magic come from then?

[humble oasis]

Prob smth to do with resonance

Resonance is rly powerful in many many games

[autumn umbra]

i remember it's said the Crystal Peak crystals sound like they sing

so maybe resonance reflects other sources of magic?

[humble oasis]

Possible

It can also maybe amplify or disrupt other possible sounds

[autumn umbra]

ohhh

maybe it's about disruption specifically?

at least in Silksong

[humble oasis]

In gms's case yes

[autumn umbra]

it always protects against something

[autumn umbra]

leaving aside the crystals

[humble oasis]

And during the entrance to act 3 we are told to play our needle to enhance the snare and activate it

[autumn umbra]

yeah but in that case it could be Soul/Silk magic and not necessarily resonance magic. although it seems connected

[humble oasis]

True but again as we know hornet learns to resonate to sounds with her needle like the melodies or the beastlings's call

[autumn umbra]

ye

[humble oasis]

However this might be a reason why bellhart is built like bellhart

[autumn umbra]

maybe it's enhancing soul magic in this case

[humble oasis]

Yeah ig

[autumn umbra]

i forgot if the bells to open the Citadel door have a seal on them or if that was only in the trailer

[humble oasis]

I don't think they have a seal right now

[autumn umbra]

oh ok

it makes sense

since they seem to be regular bells now

maybe the First Shrine had another purpose originally?

to repel gms and not just open a door

wait no that one also doesn't have a seal..

i think

[humble oasis]

But I don't really know as I always play on the release patch, for speedrunning purposes.

Wait tho

I think the first bell after the bell beast and all the other 4 have seals on them that activate and the bell is rung

[autumn umbra]

hmm

seals are made out of Silk right....?

that's always been what I've believed even before Silksong released. but I'm not sure where I got that idea from

probably the fact that there are seals in Deepnest and the Pale King worked with the Weavers

they are made out of thin Soul tho. that's basically what Silk is

anyway maybe the bell-disrupted sound of a Silk song is what repels GMS specifically

[autumn umbra]

-# accidental title drop

[jagged sun]

https://tenor.com/view/invulnerable-gif-22484955

sorry, i had to

[kindred ingot]

I think they're made of Soul, but Silk is a form of Soul, so you can also use Silk to make them

[autumn umbra]

X3

silly silly

[autumn umbra]

makes sense :3

[indigo heart]

In my opinion
Groal the great
Is Soul Master in somehow

[swift needle]

https://tenor.com/view/ishowspeed-city-boy-aura-monster-subaru-natuski-mario-gif-2906700990866198539

[dire lynx]

https://media0.giphy.com/media/v1.Y2lkPTc5MGI3NjExcGljYXAyMDNpemdoa2IyOTQ1b21kcndrdjJhOGowa3Jud21tN2p6NCZlcD12MV9pbnRlcm5hbF9naWZfYnlfaWQmY3Q9Zw/UbwjysH03iBSRKZbOJ/giphy.gif

[foggy stratus]

The fuck???

[dire lynx]

those who know...

[foggy stratus]

[dire lynx]

https://media.giphy.com/media/v1.Y2lkPWVjZjA1ZTQ3NWhtaDV5djd0dnRoc3BkYTB5ZzgwZTE3eHduOWFrcDF6MHFncDloZyZlcD12MV9naWZzX3NlYXJjaCZjdD1n/zbtQ5Ilss1PsMq2yMZ/giphy.gif

[foggy stratus]

Perhaps Ultron was right.

[dire lynx]

hehee

[whole holly]

i feel like that's how Steel Masters feel about Higher Caste and bugs who uphold them

[twin dragon]

aren't steel masters THE higher caste

[whole holly]

they feel like another type of beings altogether

[twin dragon]

In their society they're the higher caste

[whole holly]

they don't seek order, so i assume they don't seek hierarchy

[twin dragon]

they do what

they punish others heavily for misbehaving

i mean we dont know about them much but i'd assume they rule a society based off of ruthless efficiency

[foggy stratus]

I always felt they were just a bunch of normal dudes all having some major power trips going on.

[whole holly]

i mean they have vassals but said vassals are not part of steel clan, they aren't steel, they seem like outsiders staked to service

i wish i could make analogy with Carthage and Roman Empire

[twin dragon]

I guess but like

they're very afraid of their masters

[stable mountain]

If you put Infection, Void, Haunting, and Plasmium in one body, who would win?

[whole holly]

they seem to have no feelings?

[foggy stratus]

Either Void or Infection.

[whole holly]

void i feel like with possibly stalemates

[worn stone]

probably me tbh but if i had to guess it would be void

[pastel timber]

Void eats infection and haunting but plasmium’s its bestie they’ll adopt the body together

[twin dragon]

the host explodes

[whole holly]

Void doesn't eat infection, Shadow Creepers are infected

[stable mountain]

Has there ever been a being with multiple of those?

[whole holly]

Shadow Creeper is closest, abyss resident which is infected, they might have void from their environment

[stable mountain]

What about the Knight with Lifeblood masks?

That's technically Void and Plasmium

[whole holly]

i guess them too, ig

[stable mountain]

Also, can any of the plasmium enemies get voided in act 3?

[blissful harbor]

no

[pastel timber]

But it eats soul and those things are soul animated

Throw an infected shadow creeper into the void sea see what happens

[stable mountain]

Wait

[whole holly]

infection itself doesn't contain void, though

[blissful harbor]

it’ll be ripped apart
shadow creepers are more likely just creatures that adapted to void overtime
i doubt they have any actual void in them

[stable mountain]

I think Lost Lace counts as a being with multiple infections

She's both Haunting and Void

[blissful harbor]

haunting isn’t just silk
she’s not haunted

[whole holly]

i mean there is void in abyss environment, not just void sea but fumes

[blissful harbor]

i’m aware

[swift needle]

https://tenor.com/view/ishowspeed-city-boy-aura-monster-subaru-natuski-mario-gif-2906700990866198539

[stable mountain]

I'm pretty sure Haunting is just GMS's silk

And Lace is made of GMS's silk

[whole holly]

i think they have some void

[pastel timber]

Mhm, hence why they can still live down there despite clearly being soul-based life

[blissful harbor]

it is, it’s her silk used to control other bugs and force them to do stuff

[foggy stratus]

Thy end is now!

[blissful harbor]

thst z like saying all essence is infection

it’s just essence in a particular form

[twin dragon]

sk-larp discussing infectionslop

[foggy stratus]

What would a Nigntmare version of the Infection be like?

[blissful harbor]

something flames

burned bugs

[pastel timber]

The haunting does seem to need a physical connection to GMS and that might’ve been what we tore out when we took her silk heart (which is connected to gms)

[whole holly]

i disagree

[foggy stratus]

Eternally burning bugs. Like what happens after you beat FotF but the cultists don't die from their self immolation.

[blissful harbor]

disagree with what a name i just came up with

[stable mountain]

Are there any other infections in the Hollow Knight universe?

[foggy stratus]

The closest is Plasmium in Act 3.

[stable mountain]

I already said Plasmium

[blissful harbor]

there is the haunting, plasmium, the normal infection, and whatever normal diseases exist

[stable mountain]

What about that green stuff in the Putrefied Ducts?

Is that an infection?

[blissful harbor]

green stuff?

[foggy stratus]

I wouldn't really consider the Haunting and infection.

[foggy stratus]

Ita just bile.

[pastel timber]

It’s like mutagenic pollution

[blissful harbor]

it functions similarly to
it’s different enough but it’s basically one

[whole holly]

The Scarlet Fever affliction, afflicted bugs are obsessive with serving the heart and they dance and perform, they are also aggressive, anxious with them perceiving real life in nightmarish way

[stable mountain]

But it mutates other living beings

[pastel timber]

It depends what exactly you mean by infection

[stable mountain]

Also, I thought of another being with multiple infections

[pastel timber]

How broad your definition is

[stable mountain]

Broken Vessel

It has both Void and Infection

[blissful harbor]

broken vessel only has infection

there is no void in it it’s shade left

[stable mountain]

Okay, but the Hollow Knight could count, right?

[blissful harbor]

yes

[pastel timber]

And even then it’s not really ‘infected’ it is just a void being in there

[stable mountain]

It's not completely gone

[whole holly]

Unn started it, don't listen to others that's unn's infection called rot

[blissful harbor]

what

[foggy stratus]

"Hovering pest with a hollowed proboscis able to spit gobs of sizzling bile.
To subsist on the sickly water in this fetid environment it spits out the most toxic elements. Over generations, this former survival technique has turned into an effective hunting tool."-Spir Squit entry

[blissful harbor]

explain yourself

[stable mountain]

Can you just read the Bloatroach entry for me?

[foggy stratus]

It doesn't say anything about the bile being some mutagen.

[whole holly]

Unn made bile after waking up as preemptive strike on all other higher beings for revenge

[foggy stratus]

It just adapted to live in the environment.

[blissful harbor]

was this before or after she killed the blackwyrm

[low oracle]

Is the question wether the pollution from the citadel affected the creatures or not?

[whole holly]

after

[stable mountain]

Also, speaking of Bilewater

Isn't it funny that one of the only soul magic users is Groal the Great, but just because he ate a Snail Shaman?

[low oracle]

If he ate the snail shaman, what is the thing inside the room where you get the soul?

[blissful harbor]

he ste it like a mint

[stable mountain]

I guess he just absorbed the shaman's magic and vomited it back out

[blissful harbor]

he sucked all the soul out and spit the rest out

[foggy stratus]

He was draining the Shaman, not eating them.

[low oracle]

Pretty sure he just absorbed the Vengeful Spirit as one does.

[stable mountain]

That's what I said

[low oracle]

The Knight didn't have to eat the Ancestral Mount Shaman to learn the spell.

[foggy stratus]

Well yeah of course it affected them, it altered their environment. They had to adapt to live in it.

[blissful harbor]

goral is spitting a soul lougie
it’s not an actual spell

[stable mountain]

Also, I just realized something

There aren't any creatures made out of pure soul

[low oracle]

GMS, Lace and Phantom.

[blissful harbor]

silkflies

lace phantom

soul in different forms

[low oracle]

Also probably the White Lady and the Pale King, from what we know it could be at least theorized.

[stable mountain]

When was it said that Silk is a different form of Soul?

I thought that was just a very popular fan theory?

[blissful harbor]

it’s woven soul, the maternium tells us as much

[foggy stratus]

Bro

[blissful harbor]

i mean

[low oracle]

Silk = Soul spun to thread

Literally in the game

[blissful harbor]

PK isn’t pure soul
he decays like a physical bug

[low oracle]

When does he decay???

[stable mountain]

I haven't really played the game in a long time

[stable mountain]

You find his corpse in the White Palace

[blissful harbor]

his wyrm body spends th entirely of the game decaying

it’s why the kingdoms edge is snowing

[low oracle]

That is not equal to decaying, by a very far measure.

[stable mountain]

Where is his wyrm body?

[blissful harbor]

kingdoms edge

have you played the first game?

[stable mountain]

Yes

[blissful harbor]

it’s kinda hard to miss

[stable mountain]

I just wanted to know where in Kingdom's Edge it is

[low oracle]

I'm pretty sure that's ash from his wyrm body, but I said "Pale King" not "Pale Wyrm".

[stable mountain]

Is it the Colosseum of Fools?

[blissful harbor]

ts running throughout all of it

[blissful harbor]

This falling ash is moult. The Wyrm's corpse decaying. Endless. Rmm... Serene. Sad.With its like gone, the world is smaller.

anyways idk why the smaller one would be different

[low oracle]

He prolly isn't fully soul anyways, but he definitely is different.

[foggy stratus]

I feel if the PK were pure soul his Body would dissolve after he died. His smaller one to be clear.

[blissful harbor]

no

[low oracle]

Not dissolve but moreso take the natural form of soul.

[foggy stratus]

Which is like a liquid or gas. It would dissipate into the air.

[blissful harbor]

i think if PK was made of soul

it would throw a wrench in the vessel plan

vessels were biological,it’s always clear when a creauture is made through other means

[whole holly]

There is a 1 in 257 chance that Sea of sorrow releases today!

[low oracle]

EVERY living bug is made of soul. Soul is literal life energy, and hence required for life. Vessels are technically dead, the void inside them function as a sort of negative life energy. Hence dead bugs don't give soul, while living ones do. And also why void doesn't give soul either.
The pale shell of vessels still has soul inside of it, likely as a sort of containment for the void (shade) to not escape. Additionally, the black body of vessels isn't made of void, it's just a regular black body. This is easiest to understand when looking at the Broken Vessel, whose shade isn't anywhere to be seen. Its black body remains regardless, hence proving my point.
Soul and void are also opposites that are drawn to one another, with one overpowering the other and destroying/absorbing it. This can be seen by the void in Silksong being drawn to bugs and objects with soul, and the infection inside THK damaging its shade (the shade has a white scar where the infection burst out).

[blissful harbor]

them having soul in them is not the same as them being literal made of soul

surely i don’t have to tell you that

[foggy stratus]

I have blood in me, thus I'm made of blood.

[whole holly]

no but plasmified lace does:

[low oracle]

I also forgot to mention, voided bugs in Silksong are likely without a soul, now instead "living" through void.

[whole holly]

it's void soaked threads of silk

[low oracle]

When did I say that? I already stated that I don't think the Pale King is pure soul.

[stable mountain]

There should be a swap AU where the infections are swapped

[foggy stratus]

Literally the first line of your massive paragraph says that all living things are made of soul.

[low oracle]

The void uses the threads of silk as a method of reaching places it shouldn't be able to by itself.

[blissful harbor]

then whats your point of saying they have soul
i’m aware they do, and you sent that in response to the discussion we were having earlier about PK

what else am i supposed to gather from thst wall

[low oracle]

"Made of" as in "have inside their body and function with it"

[stable mountain]

So like how people are made of organs

[whole holly]

therefore bugs in act 3 do have soul/silk

[foggy stratus]

.

[whole holly]

i have lifeblood in me, thus i'm made of lifeblood!

[low oracle]

Well if the void gets them it absorbs their soul. That's the entire reason the void does that, to get to soul.

[whole holly]

that's slow process, which causes death, until they die by void they have soul inside them

[low oracle]

If a human is constructed perfectly of healthy body parts, will it just come alive?

[blissful harbor]

void threaded bugs are dead yes
all wrecked from void inside, there is no hope for them

[stable mountain]

If they're attached well enough

https://tenor.com/view/bethany-gif-3578294594390901589

[low oracle]

Yeah? They die because the void sucks their soul out, I don't get what you are trying to tell me here.

[foggy stratus]

[whole holly]

you are wrong for saying voided bugs don't have soul which isn't case as long as they are alive and kicking

i was heartbroken when this happened:

[foggy stratus]

[blissful harbor]

in every universe…

[low oracle]

Don't be sad, you can buy her back in the shop.

[blissful harbor]

anyways black threaded bugs still have soul in them
we see the threading happen in real time it’s not like it’s instant that void sucks out all their soul
if that were the case hornet wouldn’t get silk back

[low oracle]

Anyways, do you guys think that Higher Beings (/powers) can infect/affect one another?

[blissful harbor]

yes

[blissful harbor]

sorrowed beastfly

[low oracle]

Personally I'd say no, but I see a lot of people thinking otherwise so I would like to know a few reasons why.

[blissful harbor]

i mean
no reason they wouldn’t be able to alk things considered
depending on the infection

[stable mountain]

Wait, is that the League of Legends character screen?

[blissful harbor]

like if say PK accepted Rads infection, nothing is stopping her
he has more will than the average bug for sure but like

all bugs have to accept at some point so did he really resist it

same with haunting or plasmium

[low oracle]

Sure but could there be infected void then?

[blissful harbor]

no

void doesn’t infect like thst

only reason it did with haunting is because of the haunting

[low oracle]

Void is a Higher Power

[blissful harbor]

sure

[low oracle]

ik

[foggy stratus]

Its more like a force of nature until Void Heart.

[blissful harbor]

but like unless TK is brewing up Rad 3.0 in the deep down dark

it doesn’t

[low oracle]

So is soul, until the Pale King or whoever uses it. I say Higher Power because it is powerful enough to inflict harm on Higher Beings.

[whole holly]

Steel Master can seemingly affect higher beings

[low oracle]

For example, let's take THK. They have a shade "inside" of them and also whatever holds the Radiance. Probably something like a dream gate thing that the infection is leaking out of. Is the Hollow Knight infected?

If yes, how does the shade remain?

If no, can a vessel even be infected? Or can its shell only be puppetered?

[blissful harbor]

they’ve been told to oppose HBs since the start though tbf

[low oracle]

How so?

[blissful harbor]

not theyre aren’t infected not traditionally at least

it’s highly likely they just focused Rad in like we did at the end of THK ending

[whole holly]

they imply it, that they would never wish it upon another, "even you higher, especially you higher"

[blissful harbor]

theyre less infected and more just sharing the body with Rad

[low oracle]

That's what I think too, though I've seen differing opinions on it.

[blissful harbor]

i mean that’s just how it is

[low oracle]

Wish what upon another?

[blissful harbor]

we see them actively resist
the only case of doing so

[blissful harbor]

compression

[whole holly]

compression, something that happened to Steel Seer Zi

[blissful harbor]

whatever that means

being turned into a steel being imo

[low oracle]

Maybe I just gotta do Steel Soul a bit more, I'm not so far right now. The only things I know is that Steel Beings are related to Higher Beings and Void somehow.

[whole holly]

it is horrible, why didn't they compress Grand Mother Silk

[blissful harbor]

steel beings seem more like mortal bugs

who oppose HBs

so far at least

[low oracle]

Something about "natural flow of things" or some shit. Or they just aren't strong enough, I mean...

[dire lynx]

they also dont like void, or at least the unauthorised use of it

[low oracle]

How come you think they oppose them?

[blissful harbor]

“not order they seek”

most HBs seek some kind of order or system

[low oracle]

Is there more context than this? I don't get it really.

[blissful harbor]

whether it be worship or domination

it’s Jinn talking about how the masters are different and similar to TK( after voidheart), a HB

[whole holly]

yeah, Grand Master Steel for example is really powerful

[low oracle]

Well they all seek followers and worshippers, except for NKG, the White Lady and Mr. Mushroom (idk if he's confirmed).

[blissful harbor]

ew

[blissful harbor]

exactly

steel masters want something different

[whole holly]

White lady benefits from dryyas devotion, Nightmare heart benefits from cycle that other regular bugs are devoted to like Brumm

[low oracle]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/586931790208434203/1488536433374396497/400px-Sharpe_Attack.gif

Also, Steel Assasin Sharpe is interesting. Personally he looks a lot like he's made of void, they way his body shifts and such.

[blissful harbor]

and Mr mushroom is almost definitely a HB

[blissful harbor]

with what we know about vassals, hes probably void

[low oracle]

NKG uses regular bugs but it's power ultimately comes form the flames, not the bugs.
And Drya is dead, so how come the White Lady isn't in the same state as Unn?

[whole holly]

why does Pale being only allow devotion or destruction line fit Radiance even though she is not pale higher being

[blissful harbor]

i don’t think WL cares about worship

the only ones that genuinely need it are dream based HBs

[blissful harbor]

[low oracle]

I'm pretty sure that most Higher Beings have dream powers without being "dream-based".

[blissful harbor]

yes

i mean literal dream heads HBs need worship to sustain themselves

like NMH or Rad

[low oracle]

The Pale King and Unn exist completely physically.

[blissful harbor]

they would be sealed away without it

[blissful harbor]

different kinds of gods

it’s why Rad was so hard for PK to get rid of

literally trying to fight an idea

[low oracle]

I know, but ultimately they all require something to exist, worship or other exceptions. For GMS it's a little weird however. She doesn't need worship seemingly, even if she wants it.

[blissful harbor]

ehhh

[whole holly]

i mean yeah but that flames are gained through lower caste bugs, if worship is your argument every higher being is sustained through devoted bugs who are ensnared in their religions even if it is indirect, that's how Higher Caste have influence, White Lady and in general pale beings are little different

[blissful harbor]

Silk, PK, and WL are fine

[low oracle]

I disagree with the "just a dream" thing. I my opinion dream realms seem like physical, real places.

[blissful harbor]

maybe it says something theyre all place beings

[twin dragon]

she does

the citadel indirectly was worshipping her

[blissful harbor]

they are

[whole holly]

she wants worshiper loyal daughter

[twin dragon]

and before bugs likely did aswell

[blissful harbor]

but it’s still not the physical realm

imagine you are a physical god
and now all of a sudden a god from a different realm is beefing with you

you are not prepared

[low oracle]

So how is Radiance not physical too? She's only in another realm, meaning she can't be fought by force.

[blissful harbor]

i mean she is

but the dream realm work differently

you can’t just beat up Rad shell fly or teleport away

you have to consum or completely

luckily we have the consuming liquid ™ in our basement

[low oracle]

Tf does any of this mean?

[blissful harbor]

PK had no way to actually kill her is what i’m saying

[low oracle]

Makes sense, even if this made her vulnerable to being imprisoned by simply putting the gate between the realms inside THK.

Or something, I think it's a gate because what else?

[stray grove]

More accurately they need to be remembered in order to literally have a place to exist

[blissful harbor]

so they’re literally die

[stray grove]

Functionally not literally

[blissful harbor]

without worship
thst what i’m always confused on

is it literal death or not

[stray grove]

It’s not

[low oracle]

Radiance could exist in the normal realm imo.

[blissful harbor]

ehhh

if that were an option idk why she wouldn’t already

[stray grove]

The game tells us she couldn’t so no

[low oracle]

No, they just get far weaker. So weak they are basically immobile entities that might as well be dead.

[low oracle]

When does it tell us this?

[stray grove]

They don’t get weaker they just don’t have a place to exist

The quality and quantity of those who remember them does not matter at all

[low oracle]

Do you know about Unn?

[dire lynx]

unn isnt a dream entity

[blissful harbor]

unn is different
she’s a physical god lacking worship

[stray grove]

a) Unn is not a dream entity and b) that’s not the reason for Unn’s weakening

It’s not a lack of worship

[blissful harbor]

or maybe her creations coming back to her?

[stray grove]

Unn is implied to have been drained by the very act of creating Greenpath

[low oracle]

She actually does exist in the physical world without followers, while having dream powers she brought her followers from.

[stray grove]

And she gradually got weaker and lost influence due to a number of factors

[blissful harbor]

then the infection clapped her in the face

[low oracle]

Then why wouldn't the Radiance be physical with the difference that she's inside the Dream Realm?

[stray grove]

What are you talking about

Radiance is a living idea she literally needs a place to exist

[low oracle]

Says who?

[stray grove]

That is the distinction

[blissful harbor]

i mean the dream realm isn’t physical by definition
idk what you mean

[stray grove]

If she isn’t remembered she doesn’t have a place to exist

[dire lynx]

the radiances infection is what drained unn of her strength, trying to stop its spread, both through the land itself and the minds of her followers exhausted her

[blissful harbor]

she’s did a shit job ngl

weak and everything is still infected

[dire lynx]

radiance is vastly more powerful

[stray grove]

Mosskin tablets say that every one of Unn’s creations contain a part of her essence and Quirrel implies she’s been asleep since the creation of Greenpath (certainly prior to WL/infection or whatever) and by the time WL took over QG she had already started losing influence over those areas despite the Mosskin continuing to worship her

[low oracle]

If it isn't physical that would imply the White Palace we see to not be real.

[stray grove]

No it’s not

[blissful harbor]

it is real

[stray grove]

She was already weak by that point

[blissful harbor]

it’s just not physical

[stray grove]

The infection didn’t help but it’s not the reason

[blissful harbor]

physical doesn’t mean not real

[stray grove]

It just made the situation worse

[twin dragon]

the white palace seems to be altered in the dream but it is very much a physical thing placed into a dream

because pk can do such bs

[low oracle]

Influence is literally worship. What other influence do you think she would've had otherwise?
And the entire reason she got weak was because her followers where lost to the infection.

[blissful harbor]

WP does kill you in a steel soul run

[stray grove]

Read please

[dire lynx]

based on what

[stray grove]

I just explained it scroll up

[opal cliff]

gms a whole bitch

[low oracle]

Then use punctuation and paragraphs to make it understandable.

[blissful harbor]

punctuation is a thing of the past
if you can’t read a sentence without it modern times must be very scary

[low oracle]

Does Radiance kill you in Steel Soul? If so it should imply that she is "real".

[blissful harbor]

she does but there are multiple explanations for thst

lie THK just killing you in the temple

[twin dragon]

ludonarrative dissonance

[blissful harbor]

there is also the whole “HBs in general end steel soul runs”

[foggy stratus]

Yes, the lack of people using punctuation is truly a sign of decline in our society. 'Tis a sad thing, truly.

[low oracle]

Nope, why would it not just do that then?

[blissful harbor]

like the lifeblood dream also counts as a real death

[blissful harbor]

wdym

you are sleep during the Rad fight

perfectly vulnerable

and WD confirms bosses wake up before you

[low oracle]

If you'd say that the Knight doesn't enter the dream realm alongside its physical body (which I believe it does) THK could just destroy it during the Radiance fight.

[dire lynx]

he says she was sleeping, it doesnt say why

[blissful harbor]

i just explained that

[low oracle]

What's WD?

[blissful harbor]

but what ws wherever TK physically enters a dream vs not is debatable in each case

white defender

[dire lynx]

white defender

[low oracle]

I was typing so I didn't look at it.

[stray grove]

Sigh
To make it easier:

• Unn is said to have been in slumber for an extremely long time, likely since creating Greenpath, and certainly prior to the Infection
• The Mosskin Tablets tell us that all of Unn’s creations literally contain a part of her, she used her own essence to create Greenpath hence why she was tired afterwards, due to spreading herself thin
• The Mosskin had already left QG and likely FC by the time WL settled in Unn’s former territory, this predates the infection meaning she had already lost control (“influence”) over those areas long before Radiance started infecting the Mosskin. During this time she was still worshipped

So, Unn was drained and in slumber after creating Greenpath (which again was formed from her essence), gradually her influence over her domain diminished to the point where the Mosskin were no longer able to find her, and this culminated with them getting conflicting dream signals from Rad preventing them from responding to the call to return.

@dire lynx read

[dire lynx]

i already know this, what im saying is that just because she was sleeping doesnt mandate that she was weak

[stray grove]

This shit isn’t recent either do you think all the Tablets were written 5 minutes before the start of the game

[opal cliff]

maybe the guy who wrote them didnt actually have a clue

[blissful harbor]

mosskin wrote them

[stray grove]

Please go and re read the Tablets
Her slumber is the direct result of her creating Greenpath, she was tired. What does that imply
Are you saying she just took a nap arbitrarily despite being at full strength and by the time she got back up she was arbitrarily weaker for some unrelated reason because that’s nonsensical and doesn’t explain the loss of her territory PRIOR to the infection

[low oracle]

Firstly, thanks for the organized text.

Loosing territory would simply increase the population density, hence no followers are lost because of this. So nothing besides the infection affected the worship Unn received.

[stray grove]

Yes because it has nothing to do with worship

[blissful harbor]

anyways do yall think the tiny little mosskin like flies are related to the actual mosskin

[low oracle]

I've gotta go now though, bye

[stray grove]

Are you reading what I’m saying

[dire lynx]

the godseekers say that her peak was when she had land, dream and devotion

[blissful harbor]

or did Unn elevate them like Silk elevated pharlids

[stray grove]

Her weakening is not the direct result of her not being worshipped that’s not how that works

[stray grove]

No they don’t say that

[low oracle]

Higher Beings need worship, not influence over an area.

[stray grove]

They say that she had those things in her peak

[blissful harbor]

they don’t need worship

[stray grove]

Not that she was in her peak because of having those things

That is very different

[dire lynx]

"Sleeping God, to see thee as thou once existed, with land and dream and devotion, We would give our mind…"

[stray grove]

They say that she had those things in her peak

Reading comprehension

[foggy stratus]

Radiance needs to be remembered. Higher Beings may want to be worshipped but its not needed to live.

[stray grove]

Also she lost land prior to losing worship so your argument is incoherent

[dire lynx]

how could she be at her peak if making greenpath and the mosskin weakened her?

Reading comprehension

[stray grove]

It’s almost like her influence continued to exist in those things

It would be great if there was a tablet saying exactly this

If only TC thought of that

[opal cliff]

if only...

[blissful harbor]

sadly SS won’t introduce a new dream HB

[dire lynx]

i agree that WL taking land weakened her, the raidance was just 90% of the nails in her coffin

[stray grove]

But when WL took that land the Mosskin had already abandoned it

[blissful harbor]

they did?

[stray grove]

She had already lost influence there, as with FC

[stray grove]

They say “though once our lands”

[blissful harbor]

i thought WL took residence and then they all dipped

[stray grove]

And the tablet doesn’t imply WL displaced them

[stray grove]

Well then the tablet doesn’t make sense tonally

The Mosskin go “she seems chill but she a little weird”

[dire lynx]

she clamied them so the mosskin left

[stray grove]

Not “she pushed us out”

[stray grove]

The Mosskin also left FC

And also I just explained why that read doesn’t make sense

It would also be terribly uncharacteristic for WL to just settle in already occupied land while her husband was out here making peace agreements that specifically respected Mosskin sovereignty lmao

[dire lynx]

i dont see why this couldnt have happenned before pk arrived in hallownest

we have no idea when the wl shows up

[stray grove]

So now we’re just saying shit ok
I feel it’s time to cite Occam’s razor

This isn’t even the main issue

[blissful harbor]

thoufh once our lands a [..] has laid claim

“though we used to live here, a pale being has taken it”

ngl that’s how i always red it but interesting

[stray grove]

You’re just ignoring how that tablet is written and that we see the exact same thing happen in FC

[opal cliff]

fuck that mf william of okham bro

[stray grove]

It’s not just that it’s that the Mosskin don’t gaf

That tablet does not imply they were forcibly displaced

[blissful harbor]

true

[dire lynx]

Though once our lands, a pale being lays claim to the caverns ahead.
It may appear benevolent but it does not share our dream.
Be wary to wander that place.

They are not a confrontational group, so they gave up the land rather than fighting a losing battle for it

[stray grove]

And yet they insisted that they be able to govern their own lands when PK showed up an agreement PK respected?

You’re just saying shit

And again we literally see this happen with FC

Are you claiming Monomon also pushed them out

[blissful harbor]

not confrontational but they have a line of warriors

i don’t believe that

moth tribe makes sense
but mosskin

ehhh

[dire lynx]

pale king shows up and is diplomatic, wl shows up and claims the land for herself

[stray grove]

I mean yeah they literally have a military they’re not just bending the knee to anyone

[dire lynx]

i didnt say they were pacifists

[blissful harbor]

fair

[stray grove]

Terribly uncharacteristic and an extremely strange presentation if that were the case

And again FC exists

You have to do all sorts of mental gymnastics just to insist that Unn sleeping doesn’t equate to her being tired

So yeah, Occam’s razor
“The Mosskin aren’t confrontational and would immediately give up their land”
“WL was there before PK”
“WL would just claim the land”
etc.
Are all just unnecessary assumptions

[dire lynx]

im not disagreeing to that in whole, more to the notion that the simple act of making greenpath somehow weakened her

[stray grove]

Ofc this read also just flat out ignores FC and the Mosskin Tablets but whatever

[blissful harbor]

WL pulled a nyleth and just pacified all species there

[stray grove]

It weakened her in the sense that her power was less concentrated

We are told that all of her creations contain a part of her

This doesn’t mean she was weaker in the sense that she was lacking for influence, which is what the Godseekers refer to

But over time her influence diminished

And this is likely due to a combination of factors, but it was already going away prior to any actual insult be that WL Rad or whatever else

[dire lynx]

the way you phrased it earlier was making it sound like you thought that her simply creating the greenpath put her in the state we see her in during the events of the game

[stray grove]

I mean it did put her in that state it’s the reason she’s asleep

[dire lynx]

i agree it was compounding factors, i just think the main reason for her current weakness is the infection

[stray grove]

The infection is more of a consequence

But yes it’s not helping

If Unn were stronger she’d be able to reach the Mosskin and call them back but most of them are barely getting her calls and those who are are getting drowned out by the more powerful Radiance

If she were stronger she’d also have been able to maintain her old territories

[dire lynx]

thats just rad being a far more powerful hb ngl, dont think it would matter how close to her prime she was

[blissful harbor]

i mean

i’m her prime she likely would’ve stood a chance at least

not being literally asleep

[stray grove]

If that were an isolated thing sure but it’s not just that she’s messing with Unn’s signal it’s also that Unn’s signal isn’t able to reach a lot of them

Hidden Unn, we need you now.
We grow tired away from you.
Our leaves are falling.

[blissful harbor]

“hidden Unn” and she’s literally at her temple

[stray grove]

I also think it’s a bit reductive to claim it’s just a case of Rad being more powerful, they’re not directly comparable

[blissful harbor]

why didnt Unn make her mosskin acid proof
is she stupid

[dire lynx]

rad is on par with pk, unn pales in comparison

[stray grove]

I don’t agree

I don’t think any of them are comparable

[blissful harbor]

or is the acid truly just Isma and Unn had nothing to do with it

[stray grove]

They all do different things

[whole holly]

i feel bad for unn, she is fading just like nyleth, i HATE grand mother silk and radiance

[blissful harbor]

nyleth is doing pretty good

[stray grove]

We also don’t see Unn at full power, but creating a whole ass ecosystem is a major feat neither of them replicate

[whole holly]

Steel Masters are here to solve that problems :

[sinful nimbus]

Everyone says Higher Beings are incomparable but when you say GMS is the weakest of them all and a bum everyone agrees 🤔

[blissful harbor]

her environment while a bit muddied in modern times is still thriving

[stray grove]

Rad’s most comparable feat in comparison is creating the Moth Tribe

[blissful harbor]

i mean is is the infection not comparable

she’s creating a whole network of min control

[whole holly]

i mean Grand Mother Silk is stronger than White lady, if we analyze feats, people just expected boss stronger than Radiance

[blissful harbor]

WL: the one featless HB

[stray grove]

I mean I also agree but there’s some nuance to it
GMS isn’t weak and is clearly not at her full strength but she happens to be directly comparable to PK (both being Soul based Pale Beings and all) and this comparison is not very flattering

[sinful nimbus]

I would defend WL but red memory lowk ruined her and I can't bring myself to do it

[whole holly]

it is also inherently unequal comparison

[blissful harbor]

how

[stray grove]

fr bruh

[dire lynx]

gms holds back the abyss with her own soul for a good time, so at least she has a feat (WL, GoTR, NMH, AC)

[blissful harbor]

she’s just using an infinite glitch

[opal cliff]

i know it in my soul that the pk is stronger than bum mother silk

[stray grove]

Why are we inviting GoTaR and LBB to the club

[blissful harbor]

PK would eat her like spaghetti

[stray grove]

WL and NMH do have feats

[blissful harbor]

literally

he would do what hornet did are the end of the fight at the beginning

[whole holly]

we don't even see steel masters but we know they have AURA

[stray grove]

But I’m not debating whether or not their feats are more impressive than GMS’

[sinful nimbus]

such is the cost of our wish...

[opal cliff]

WL senses u whilst blind shes like daredevil

[blissful harbor]

she sensed her child while blind

not too much credit

[stray grove]

She’s not even blind she just underestimates her own senses

[opal cliff]

if i was blind and u put my child infront of me id probably walk into them

though she cant walk

[stray grove]

“I can smell Ogrim but not see him so clearly my vision is getting worse” is what she says

[whole holly]

White Bum Lady

[sinful nimbus]

Why couldn't she see the stink aura

[stray grove]

Even if her senses are getting worse it’s likely self inflicted to some degree

And there’s something to be said about a being like WL and needing conventional senses in the first instance

[opal cliff]

do you think shes enjoys the smell because she is a plant

[whole holly]

she puts bindings and seals on herself

[opal cliff]

this is the real lore

[stray grove]

Gameplay 🤓

[blissful harbor]

she’s all bound

[stray grove]

She doesn’t mind the smell

[blissful harbor]

if she were like greyroot we’d have a problem

[stray grove]

But she still has her magical senses

[sinful nimbus]

Isma likes Ogrim too

[stray grove]

PK probably didn’t mind it