sk-lore

[low oracle]

He is very obviously under the influence of something greater than pollen, considering he seems to have been disconnected from the effects of age.

[limpid summit]

I don’t think that looks more like lifeblood heart than anything else

[plain ruin]

Right one kinda looks like Radiance more than WL

[whole holly]

look really close

[low oracle]

The shell symbol is far too common to call it Lifeblood though. It may be it, but it isn't something I'd call absolute evidence.

On the other hand, if this is true, who would even create this and when??? The only answer I think makes decent sense is the Steel Society.

[whole holly]

this is not just my opinion, this is analysis of professional archivist

[whole holly]

Moth society, or less likely AC

[twin dragon]

I dont think "mortal" in this context refers explicitely to like, yk, being able to die

[low oracle]

That's the thing though, wouldn't it be pretty taboo to create symbols of other HBs?

And who is AC?

[plain ruin]

Ancient Civ

[twin dragon]

And nyleth only started what shellwood is, and even if multiple things were birthed from her, isma does something similar and that doesnt make her a hb

[limpid summit]

I’m pretty sure the glyphs are the moths

I don’t think we’re led to believe anything else

[twin dragon]

she's powerful but not nearly enough hb levels

[whole holly]

i mean...? they switched religions in super speed disregarding radiance

[low oracle]

They definitely didn't build this, juust because the time wouldn't make it possible. They also worshipped the void, contradicting making a statue of the literal light god.

[whole holly]

yeah, i get that

[plain ruin]

Statue could’ve been added later

[low oracle]

Nobody said they switched very fast, and they would've made this when still worshipping Radiance.

[whole holly]

i believe Ancient Moths

[low oracle]

The Pale King didn't come until later.

[whole holly]

i was exaggerating but Moths revere light in general, they could have practiced in polytheism

[low oracle]

Moths were most likely created or ascended by the Radiance, if other Higher Beings are anything to go by.

[plain ruin]

I mean that the AC could’ve made the glyphs, then the Moths come around and make the Radiance statue

[whole holly]

Pale Wyrm is being depicted though

[plain ruin]

Moths also added those little arches as well

[whole holly]

i don't disagree, but Ancient Moths still could have existed

[low oracle]

That is possible, but not if we choose to think this depicts what it is said to above.

[low oracle]

Wyrms traverse the world before settling down for a kingdom. Why would the Pale Wyrm be seen in Hallownest and then far, far later settle down.

[whole holly]

we don't know when glyphs were made

Elina says she can't recognize language

[low oracle]

Who is Elina???

[whole holly]

Wanderer's Journal character

[plain ruin]

Wait, couldn’t the Moths have made these glyphs for the purpose of remembrance? The Moths take care of the Resting Grounds in service of the Pale King. Maybe they were always keen on doing things like this

Creating these glyphs preserves knowledge, they love that shit

[low oracle]

Well she isn't really a moth or any of that though.
My entire point is that the Glyphs couldn't be made by the ancient civilisation if we also say that they depict these HBs. The timeline doesn't add up in any way and ancient moths aren't real either. The Radiance would have created/ascended Moths if we think logically, as other Higher Beings do this too.

[low oracle]

Maybe, but the Radiance statue is very much not something that has been taken care of in a long time. So that doesn't make all that much sense.

[whole holly]

Ancient Moths could very well have existed... we don't know when Radiance created moths

[limpid summit]

We aren’t calling into question that moths didn’t exist before Rad right

Wdym ancient moths

Like rad created moths during AC time?

[whole holly]

i think before hallownest was established because moths were the before PK

past generations of moths

[low oracle]

But that's still a LONG time after AC.

[whole holly]

most believe it was moths

[low oracle]

The ONLY beings other than Higher Beings that could've existed in AC are Snail Shamans. You already know why.

[whole holly]

we don't have timeline on that

[plain ruin]

I’m saying they could have made them before the Pale King took that form and before the Moths turned to his light. They would have abandoned this place completely, which would explain why the statue looks like it could crumble at any second

[limpid summit]

Moths could have existed in AC times who knows

Regardless

[low oracle]

We have visual evidence. It doesn't happen fast that a giant creature turns into part of the nature around it.

[limpid summit]

They could have honestly made the glyphs at any point

[plain ruin]

Moths are probably just ascended lumaflies

[low oracle]

Not before the Pale Wyrm entered Hallownest if you are also saying that the above is likely.

[plain ruin]

When the Seer ascends, a lumafly appears

Or a creature resembling a small lumafly, at least

[whole holly]

visual evidence is always secondary to textual evidence and is also subject to more scrutiny

[low oracle]

Technically that would mean she descends if you think about it...

[low oracle]

You are literally using visual evidence though.

[limpid summit]

No yeah

Any point after that

[whole holly]

Visual Evidence backed by Professional Archivists Analysis which holds up to scrutiny

[low oracle]

And when the Pale Wyrm, now King, entered Hallownest he built up a civilisation. This means that the AC couldn't have existed in a timespan near to this happening, as otherwise we should see more mentions of them.

[limpid summit]

Can you link this professional archivist video

I feel like irl scholars tend to get muddled with details when they try to dissect video games

[low oracle]

One thing you can never forget, HK uses artistic choices over realism all the time.

[plain ruin]

Saw those videos in my recommended, haven’t watched em

I assumed they were an archivist and also a gamer

[limpid summit]

Like really how can you look at this and see WL

[plain ruin]

If they do a video on weavers I’ll probably watch that

[limpid summit]

Oh I see I found it

The video is about Pharloom

Maybe they don’t put as much focus into the Hallownest side

[plain ruin]

I can kinda see it, but I think Radiance is a better fit

[low oracle]

I see some fuckass "Insect with ten legs???" thumbnails far too often.
Idc if the video is good, I'm not interested if this is what we are using to get viewers.

[plain ruin]

Oh that’s something else

That’s a video on the wacky biology of Pharloom’s bugs

[limpid summit]

I’ll skip to the Hallownest part

[plain ruin]

Different creator, different topic

[low oracle]

Yeah no, I don't think I'm interested in biology for these games. It tends to be overly annoying, just like when people point out how unrealistic "anime eyes" are. As if it's supposed to be realistic.

[plain ruin]

I think those videos are mostly for jokes instead of a serious biological study of all of Pharloom

Like “how does this thing fly it doesn’t have wings this is heresy”

[whole holly]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YiYRXQW_31Y&t=2455s

[low oracle]

Not hating or anything, I'm not some dumbass hating things I haven't even watched.

[limpid summit]

Alright she postulates that the statue was placed there later after the glyphs

I’m sure the video is good for Pharloom I’ll probably watch it later

But like

Come on

They look the exact same that is artistic intention

Splinter moths retreated to Hallownest’s crown and remained there to worship Rad

[low oracle]

Not possible, no bodies.

[limpid summit]

Rad probably blew them up or something

This would have been long long ago

Beginning of first wave

When they died

[near jasper]

Decomposition moment

[blissful harbor]

or they ascended like seer
or retreated into the dream realm
or just dusted upon death
i feel like for a magical dream species not leaving behind a body is the least concerning

if anything markoth is the weird one

[elfin comet]

that's just weathering?

like, specifically the side facing against the wind is broken

[limpid summit]

Yeah

If the radiance statue was meant to be ages after it would probably look fresher, or the glyphs would look visibly older

But they look about the same

So I don’t think the implication is they come from different time periods

[dire lynx]

Karakans aren't MADE of coral, some of their species they have a symbiosis with it

[near jasper]

You put god of thunder twice🦦

[foggy stratus]

Nightmare Heart not NKG. Lord of Shades is a Higher Being and so is The Knight post Void Heart. Nyleth is strictly a mortal since she's an Old Heart.

[stray grove]

Nightmare Heart is NKG

Lord of Shades is TK post VH

[foggy stratus]

Someone was calling NKG a higher being. While technically true in the sense that its the Nightmare Heart, it still comes off as wrong to me.

[stray grove]

It’s accurate

I’d go a step further and say even base Grimm counts as a HB

Grimm doesn’t differentiate between the Heart and himself so why should we

It’s not even a “technically the Troupe are all NMH so are all HBs” it’s Grimm’s relationship with the Heart

[foggy stratus]

Grimm refers to the "individual" while Nightmare Heart refers to the whole. Its like calling the engine block a car.

[stray grove]

Grimm is to NMH what TK’s physical body is to the Void it just makes no sense to separate them

Also Grimm doesn’t refer to himself as an individual he calls the Heart his

[foggy stratus]

Well in taht case should we be calling the siblings all higher Beings since they're part of the Void?

[stray grove]

But even if you’re making that distinction the Heart isn’t even an entity per se it’s the entire realm

[stray grove]

Holy false equivalence

[stray grove]

.

But also post VH the Siblings are part of TK

[dire lynx]

the void itself isnt a higher being

[stray grove]

So they’re part of a HB that’s not inaccurate either

[stray grove]

Post VH it is

TK is the Void

[dire lynx]

the knight controls the void

[stray grove]

No

It is the Void

[dire lynx]

and not even absolutley at that

[stray grove]

The Void is functionally its own body

[dire lynx]

no

[stray grove]

That’s how VH is described

If you’re going to bring up SotV there are a billion explanations for that

Really it’s just hype moments and aura

[dire lynx]

w cope

[stray grove]

Even if the claim is that TK simply controls the Void you can’t rationalize that

[foggy fractal]

its w aura tho

[stray grove]

I let it go a long time ago

[foggy fractal]

feels the aura!

[foggy stratus]

Grimm is a subscript to the Nightmare Heart while The Knight is the Void. The Knight is in control of its substance, Grimm is the one being controlled.

[stray grove]

Grimm isn’t being controlled 😭

Grimm is NMH he says this himself

He’s controlled in the same way your brain controls your leg

They explicitly share a consciousness

[dire lynx]

my favourite higher being

[stray grove]

Holy bad faith argument

[stray grove]

.

[foggy stratus]

Yet your leg isnt a human. Grimm is a cog in the machine that is the Heart. He himself isnt the Higher Being he's just its vessel.

[sinful nimbus]

My fav higher being

[stray grove]

But again, yes, the Grimmkin are parts of a HB

[stray grove]

What are we TALKING about

[foggy fractal]

🤔 Ohhhmmmm... Tiny thing... It evolves beyond that Wyrm. Such union in a single being. A strength before unseen. Would it too challenge nature? It could perhaps defeat it.

[sinful nimbus]

Cold

[foggy fractal]

aura.

[stray grove]

Tuff

[sinful nimbus]

Bardoon glaze o'clock

[foggy fractal]

I resist the light's allure. Union it may offer, but also a mind bereft of thought... To instinct alone a bug is reduced...Hrrm... 🥶 🥶

[sinful nimbus]

Is it you bothering about my tail? Rest is somewhat disturbed, but I find that sensation not unpleasant..Ohr..Ohr...Ohrmm 🗣️ 🗣️ 🗣️

[stray grove]

Ohr Ohr Ohrmm

[sinful nimbus]

Does he pronounce wyrm like wohrmm

[foggy fractal]

One prefers its mind not be pried. Is rather unsettling. Rather invasive. 🔥 🤫

[stray grove]

Bardoon casually being aware of Rad’s true nature

[floral quiver]

"An emptiness that was hidden within, now unconstrained. Unifies the void under the bearer's will."

Nothing here says that the Void is the Knight's body. Rather that the Knight's will directs the collective, which isn't the same thing as literally being the Void entire intrinsically.

[stray grove]

https://tenor.com/view/oh-my-god-jujutsu-kaisen-jjk-higuruma-jjk-season-3-gif-4667305439104820644

[sinful nimbus]

🌨️

See this is where Bardoon comes in

[stray grove]

Indeed!

[sinful nimbus]

Ohhhmmmm... Tiny thing... It evolves beyond that Wyrm. Such union in a single being. A strength before unseen.

TUFF!

[stray grove]

Such union in a single being!

My goat

[foggy stratus]

If something is totally under your will to the point of being able to control it akin to an appendage, would that not make it indirectly at least part of you?

[stray grove]

It’s explicitly a part of it

We don’t even need to debate this

Single being

But if we wanted to go further there is evidence to suggest the Void was functionally a single being even prior to VH it was just fragmented and unable to act as such

[foggy fractal]

Let's go further

[stray grove]

Can’t be arsed if they’re going to ignore the Bardoon dialogue there’s no reasoning to be done

[foggy stratus]

Should we execute them then?

[stray grove]

Or I can just choose not to engage further

[foggy fractal]

https://tenor.com/view/walks-away-sad-leave-tom-and-jerry-gif-16877258

[foggy stratus]

So do I have to take appart the War Wolf I just constructed after all these months of work?

[sinful nimbus]

P4 cutscene

Why did they add that

[foggy fractal]

aura

hype moment

[sinful nimbus]

It is kinda tuff

[stray grove]

💀

🥀

😮

[foggy fractal]

radiance scream gets replaced by Sigma Shade Lord Scream

💀

[dire lynx]

🗿

[stray grove]

P4 cutscene is just a representation of current events

It’s fine for what it is tbh

[sinful nimbus]

That's why it uses young THK

[stray grove]

That’s its mental image

[floral quiver]

No. If I could control a robotic limb such that it reacts like my biological arm would, it's still not a part of me in the sense that it's "me".

[stray grove]

All the other siblings are small

[sinful nimbus]

thought that was the scar

[stray grove]

Big THK would look weird

[stray grove]

That’s the result of Rad’s psychological torture this is PV who hasn’t gone through that

[sinful nimbus]

fair point

[stray grove]

THK is only there because its attunement is what triggered VGFocus’ conceptual birth (what the cutscene represents) so it’s not that deep tbh

[near jasper]

Whats the topic rn

[sinful nimbus]

PK premonition 🗣️

[foggy stratus]

So said arm is fully connected to you. Nervous system and all. Buts you don't consider it "you"? Would you consider a biological replacement arm "not you" then?

[stray grove]

PK upscale

Why are we still talking about arms

This is a meaningless hypothetical the Bardoon dialogue is right there 😭

[near jasper]

Humans should have more arms

Give me a scuttlebrace

[foggy stratus]

Lemme general grievous this shit.

[foggy fractal]

https://klipy.com/gifs/four-arms-ben-10

4 arms time

[stray grove]

TC: “Hey so TK’s nature is Void the realization that it’s Void at its core is what gives rise to VH which is the Void itself”
“So it’s like a prosthetic arm?” 🥀

[foggy stratus]

I want two fully formed human arms to be able to pop out of my two preexisting arms like a goddammit xenomorph: and edition.

[foggy fractal]

how does voids get into radiance fights 🤔

[stray grove]

TK can just summon it

[foggy fractal]

aura

[stray grove]

It doesn’t even need to come from anywhere

[near jasper]

@11tharchitec can I have a scuttlebrace

[stray grove]

TK can just make a bunch of Void show up wherever since Void has no fixed volume and can indefinitely self replicate

[sinful nimbus]

TC did not think of allat

They don't even remember how voidheart works

[stray grove]

Yes what I’m saying is “TK can summon however much Void it wants wherever it wants whenever it feels like it”

[spark valve]

tc doesn't think of a lot of things

[floral quiver]

A biological replacement arm grown in a lab? No that's not me. That's a replacement that happens to be biological.

An arm grown from my body itself, yes, thats me.

[stray grove]

TK wanted to aura farm ig

[near jasper]

Team kherry

[spark valve]

that's comparatively inoffensive

[foggy fractal]

slabfly journal entries ?!

[foggy fractal]

rule of cool type shi

😎

[foggy stratus]

Feels like we've lost the plot here. You and your damn arm shit.

[sinful nimbus]

This is beautiful

[near jasper]

Do you think the unravelled is still alive after sister of the void

[floral quiver]

You asked me a follow up question and I answered?

If you didnt want my answer why ask?

[sinful nimbus]

Lost Unravelled and Lost Phantom would be tuff

[foggy fractal]

1

[sinful nimbus]

Imagine the regular Unravelled fight but occasionally it disappears into the ground for a void saw like in Lost Lace

[stray grove]

https://tenor.com/view/silly-billy-silly-kiddo-kid-child-gif-9357921410048924519

[sinful nimbus]

I mean everyone thought Phantom was void before release

[foggy fractal]

lost phantom would be too much aura

[near jasper]

Unravelled but It spawns 4 gargant glooms instead of the husks

[sinful nimbus]

Why was the Phantom trading card so unappealing

[spark valve]

'everyone'

[near jasper]

Shruff

[spark valve]

she was obviously the same typa thing as lace

[sinful nimbus]

we yes WE all thought phantom and garmond were nonbinary

Also a kitsune

[stray grove]

A few people did due to a combination of factors and honestly Phantom being Void would probably be better than the way Void actually ended up being implemented

[foggy stratus]

So an arm that is fully connected, skin, nerves, veins, bones the whole package deal somehow isnt you? According to you at least since According to me it is.

[stray grove]

But also Phantom being Void was always kinda stupid

[spark valve]

yeah but that's clearly not prohibitive

[near jasper]

What does phantom even do

[foggy fractal]

aura farms

[stray grove]

I instead directed my energy towards prematurely criticizing the inclusion of Void and AC and was of course correct about everything

[sinful nimbus]

?
you mean her?

[foggy stratus]

"Oh this isnt my arm this is someone else's arm I ahge grafted to my old arm stump."

[near jasper]

Silksong but armless mod when???

[spark valve]

rolling a very small ball of snow down a looooong hill that ultimately leads to your home rn

[eternal cove]

Okay so I have a serious question
Are bugs made of metal?

[sinful nimbus]

SteamDB leaks man

[eternal cove]

I know that sounds crazy but hear me out

[near jasper]

No

[sinful nimbus]

A shadow on my entire playthrough

[eternal cove]

How can you use shell shards to make advanced contraptions

[sinful nimbus]

The delicate flower was gnawing at the back of my mind

[spark valve]

abstraction

[near jasper]

Hornet is really op

[foggy fractal]

what if we instead built a snowman

[spark valve]

can it inflict violence

[foggy fractal]

sure

[sinful nimbus]

time for you to be abstracted

[stray grove]

I was fighting for my life in archives yeah well how does it feel now how much good did your “optimism” do you
The realist always knew TC was creatively bankrupt and there was no reason to have faith in their writing ever since Godmaster

[near jasper]

Why are there no stiltkin bodies in the mist

[foggy fractal]

hey now trobbios writing is pretty good

[stray grove]

Because they’re not stupid and wouldn’t go there

[sinful nimbus]

I was sayin the void release date background was just "generic marketing material" or something

[foggy fractal]

so is last judge's

[sinful nimbus]

arcane egg stuff just couldn't have ended well though

[near jasper]

"lemme put up a ceiling on putrified ducts so we get less waste and ignore the large waster river coming out of that wall"

[stray grove]

Delicate Flower but also that was always sequel bait

[near jasper]

[sinful nimbus]

"delicate flower is different from the everbloom"

[foggy fractal]

sequel bait being only relevant for like maybe 30 minutes in the second game 💔

[stray grove]

That’s like half the length of act 3 tbf

[sinful nimbus]

Crazy how fast it gets brought up

[foggy fractal]

unfortunate

[sinful nimbus]

Hornet is just like one sentence "Maybe I could go grab that flower, you know the one" and boom

[stray grove]

First light 🤠

[foggy fractal]

would this be a case of "macguffin" 🤔

[near jasper]

Team cherry deciding to kill garmond because he got a bit tired during an Apocalypse:

[stray grove]

How TC felt when they killed off like 90% of the NPCs in act 3

Survivor’s Camp and it’s literally one guy

[floral quiver]

Yes, if it was designed and grown in a lab. It's not "my arm" like an arm grown from my body is, it's an arm I bought. It's "my arm" in that I own and use it, but it's not as "me" as the arm I lost because at one point it was someone else's that I recieved.

Same thing with any replacement organ or body parts. They don't become "me" just because I own them and they're in my body. They're replacement parts.

[spark valve]

90% of npcs are faceless nobodies anyhow

[sinful nimbus]

My 100% run...

[stray grove]

Pillby has to be a joke of some kind

If you save him from the Tyrant he dies to the Rhinogrund and if you save him from both he dies in Act 3 anyway

[near jasper]

Why does garmond get haunted in act 3 actually

[stray grove]

Pebb randomly dies for no reason

[sinful nimbus]

Who

[near jasper]

Pilby can be found alive in the abyss in act 3

[sinful nimbus]

Oh

[near jasper]

Trust me

[sinful nimbus]

Pilby dies meanwhile Elderbug runs free smh

[foggy fractal]

(Haunted)

[floral quiver]

Unknown. He disappears after the way station and his fate is unknown as of Act 3.

[near jasper]

Gms cured the hunchback

[floral quiver]

We don't see a body

[foggy fractal]

hey at least they're in the game how about the bugpipers smh 😔

[near jasper]

https://tenor.com/view/lithuania-lithuanian-lithuanian-people-lithium-battery-lithuanian-people-when-the-lithium-battery-harvester-arrives-gif-9141783510813258178

[foggy fractal]

why are you green

[sinful nimbus]

that one friend who's too green

[stray grove]

It’s green humor

[foggy stratus]

So I'm just going to disconnect from this because its becoming more philosophical now but just random guess, do you think the Ship of Thessius is a different ship after being fully replaced?

[near jasper]

If you take and replace all her silk is she still the same lace

If you take the old silk and make a lace from that which is the original lace

[stray grove]

Allat just to ignore the Bardoon dialogue

[sinful nimbus]

lowk 🔑 burst 🎆 out laughing 🤣 when I saw 👀 green 🟩 prince 🤴

[stray grove]

People just be saying anything

[spark valve]

somebody really liked drafting green rooms

[sinful nimbus]

TRUE

[near jasper]

They should cancel sea of sorrow for a bacon cheeseburger

[foggy fractal]

is this a blue prince reference?

🤔

why is the prince blue???

[stray grove]

I thought his name was Blue Prince for a while

[spark valve]

that's spoilers (actually)

[stray grove]

I didn’t actually I just lie sometimes

[sinful nimbus]

Y'know I never thought about it that way

[foggy fractal]

🙂‍↕️

I see

[sinful nimbus]

||Red Prince became blue when he became sad|| surely

I'm not seeing a lot of story but I'm early on idk

[foggy fractal]

??? you're telling me theres a ||red|| one???

[near jasper]

Who wins 1 zote or 9 pharlooms

[stray grove]

Then why isn’t Green Prince blue isn’t he sad

[near jasper]

Me when I find out about sands of karak

[stray grove]

Who would win Khann or Traitor Lord

Battle of the frauds

They both hate pale beings

[sinful nimbus]

Gee that's a toughie

[spark valve]

Traitor lord

[stray grove]

Too quick

[near jasper]

Its cool that shakra canonically goes through the entire citadel and doesnt even bother mapping any of it

[stray grove]

You didn’t even think about it

That’s a close matchup

[spark valve]

Burrows though khann’s coral

[sinful nimbus]

Traitor Lord was able to take on PK or at the very least WL and live to tell the tale

[near jasper]

"this place so ass let me leave so I can find my master"

[sinful nimbus]

So he's gotta be pretty strong

[stray grove]

He never fought either of them

[sinful nimbus]

Dawg

[stray grove]

If you subscribe to the theory be fought PK back in the day then he probably got no diffed

[sinful nimbus]

You used to fw the theory what changed

[stray grove]

And PK was going non lethal

So ofc he survived

[sinful nimbus]

Anyway he at least fought Ogrim who is old heart level

[stray grove]

I still fw it

I think either PK or Ze’mer fought the MLs to earn their respect

[sinful nimbus]

Ze'mer needs the upscale fr

Ogrim has a literal fight
Isma has Nyleth
Dryya has the traitors
Hegemol is a bum
What does Ze'mer have

Featless

[stray grove]

And that them being defeated with extreme ease it what caused TL to become resentful
But in either case him surviving is not a feat in and of itself

[foggy fractal]

the first light

[spark valve]

TL may have been in the assault that killed dryya which scales him up

[sinful nimbus]

cold

[foggy fractal]

tuff

[stray grove]

Well idk if that’s much of an upscale

[spark valve]

Surviving a fight with a gk

[floral quiver]

It was always philosophical, but okay.

The ship of Theseus' "Ship of Theseusness" is a social construct. Physically once all parts have been replaced it is no longer the original ship of Theseus, it is a physically different ship from the original. Socially it's whatever ship people claim it to be.

[stray grove]

“Yeah he jumped Dryya with infection amp and like 500 of his guys and had to run away with his tail between his legs”

[near jasper]

Who wins a full Chamber from the citadel vs zote

[stray grove]

What a strong character

[sinful nimbus]

Infection is part of his power dawg

[stray grove]

Sacrificed dozens of troops only to end up needing to retreat anyway

[sinful nimbus]

"Yeah PK jumped the Blackwyrm with his soul powers and all of his knights he's so strong"

[stray grove]

Ok but this isn’t PK’s only feat

[floral quiver]

The Chamber. No question.

[sinful nimbus]

Yeah he also had the knotted grove ofc

Nyleth level

[stray grove]

I don’t think this is the TL upscale you think it is

He survived a fight with a GK who was probably exhausted and was also busy fighting like 50 other guys

Infection isn’t his own power but yes it counts for the sake of the hypothetical ofc

[near jasper]

Are yall ignoring traitor lord (basically) loses to cloth

[stray grove]

No

[sinful nimbus]

Cloth fighting with a demigod on her side

[foggy fractal]

dawg cloth deals like 50 dmg in that fight

😭

[stray grove]

TK did 99% of the work Cloth landed the killing blow getting impaled in the process

[foggy fractal]

tc literally had to buff her no?

in a patch

[near jasper]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1402002414630076607/1489516443245744249/rapidsave.com_sj6kixskkssg1.gif

[stray grove]

If it was a 1v1 fight Cloth would just die instantly

She’d get impaled the same way it would just be instantaneous since TL would be focusing solely on her and not the actual threat

[near jasper]

What path did npcs take to the citadel

[swift needle]

https://tenor.com/view/dmc5-nero-devil-trigger-stop-sibling-rivaly-gif-17020852

Worry not because super bum is here

[near jasper]

Eyesack reference

[stray grove]

Anyway I think Khann beats TL

[spark valve]

Cope

[stray grove]

TL’s wind blades are less versatile than Khann’s coral spears which can be used both for offense and defense

He’s probably faster and maybe stronger but I don’t know if he could dodge those continuously

[swift needle]

Lore accurate khan DRILLS into TLs ass

Literally

[sinful nimbus]

was looking up a nausicaa gif and I found an AI edit of the god warriors

kinda tuff though icl

[stray grove]

Nah

I think it’s an extreme diff fight

Either of them could take it

[swift needle]

I mean

[floral quiver]

Marrow to deep docks to far fields to greymoor to shellwood to blasted steps to grand gate.

Hornet walks the pilgrims path, thus why she can ring the necessary bells along the way.

[stray grove]

Lore accurate Khann isn’t that strong and the general power level in Pharloom is also much lower than Hallownest

[sinful nimbus]

What about 2019 Khann

[stray grove]

He had a big army and managed to dominate the region because there was literally nobody else there

[near jasper]

The reason underworkers are poor is because they paid to allow sherma and garmond into the citadel

[stray grove]

As soon as a bigger fish showed up he got folded immediately

[swift needle]

But can't he control the coral so he could hypothetically drill into his ass right

https://tenor.com/view/eagle-eagle-ball-bald-eagle-knowledge-knows-ball-gif-10313176648961424199

[spark valve]

the moment anybody else showed up he died without even a real fight

[swift needle]

All hail khann

Napoleon khanapparte

[stray grove]

Literal deity tbf but yeah

[swift needle]

https://tenor.com/view/hollow-knight-silksong-bosses-boss-karmelita-gif-8277026654277953812

[spark valve]

they died when citadel was in power

imagine being an authoritarian dictator based on strength and being that damn weak

[stray grove]

What I mean is they couldn’t really fight her could they

[foggy fractal]

You were mortal bugs, caught beneath a being pale... Devotion or destruction... these are the only fates my kind allow.

[stray grove]

They couldn’t fight the Citadel either

[spark valve]

hornet projecting hard

[near jasper]

Khann got soloed by the concept of dryness while living under a mountain filled with Ice and snow

[stray grove]

If GMS arrived in Hallownest instead of PK and tried to take over how far does she get

[floral quiver]

?

They only died thanks to their ecosystem being destroyed in such a way that they couldn't prevent it. The Citadel didn't defeat them on the field.

[stray grove]

Let’s assume she has the Weavers

[floral quiver]

Misread

[near jasper]

Like 2 rooms

[swift needle]

Mantis tribe soloes

[stray grove]

Look I love GMS slander but no

[swift needle]

Ya I was tryna slander

Mb

https://tenor.com/view/whiplash-mad-angry-frustrated-throw-gif-6000995504968593846

[near jasper]

This is just the weavers vs hallownest practically

[foggy stratus]

Moths. At most.

[spark valve]

mantes probably decimate her numbers but don't win outright then she gets wiped the moment she approaches the city

[stray grove]

The Moths aren’t combatants

[stray grove]

No city there’s no PK

It’s pre PK Hallownest

[spark valve]

oh instead of pk

[foggy stratus]

Yeah, but when Radiance gets pissed is when shit hits the fan for her.

[spark valve]

unn wipes her out

[stray grove]

Unn is weak

She can’t do much in her current state

[spark valve]

she has an army

[stray grove]

Not a very strong one

[spark valve]

mantes are skilled combatants but don't have the numbers

[near jasper]

In post infection hallownest

That wouldnt be her current state without pk arriving

[swift needle]

You js said pre pk

[stray grove]

She has likely been in her weakened state since she created Greenpath

She was like that prior to PK

She may have gotten even weaker later on due to a number of things but it’s creating Greenpath that drained her in the first place

[swift needle]

Radiance soloes

[floral quiver]

Silk crushes a large part of hallownest and sees it driven before her before binding it to fealty because she and her people are much better at imperialism and conquest than the bugs of Hallownest.

The Pale King wishes he could just take things he needed from his neighbors and make them bend the knee.

[swift needle]

https://tenor.com/view/eagle-eagle-ball-bald-eagle-knowledge-knows-ball-gif-10313176648961424199

[stray grove]

They’re better at imperialism and conquest than PK because PK… didn’t want to do that????
Holy media literacy moment

[foggy stratus]

Bees and Mantises is where she gets unraveled.

[stray grove]

I agree I think Rad is the biggest problem

[near jasper]

I feel like the religion trick from the weavers wouldnt work in hallownest

[stray grove]

But if Rad can’t interact with GMS it doesn’t matter

The only other being who I think stands up to her is WL

Assuming WL was even there at the time

[foggy fractal]

I mean can anyone besides tk deal with rad

[near jasper]

Me

[foggy fractal]

feels the aura

[stray grove]

No but she also can’t really deal with them

Like Rad isn’t a physical being and her tribe are powerful but also pacifists with little to no combat ability

Now time to present my real agenda

[near jasper]

Gms when first sinner gets dream nailed and now the entire moth tribe is telling the weavers theyre not her true children

[stray grove]

In pre PK Hallownest the Shamans were likely more dominant

Given Soul Eater and shit

[foggy stratus]

Everyone laughing until Thistlewind and Markoth pull up.

[stray grove]

If the Shamans had an actual civilization back then I think they clear the Weavers

[spark valve]

they're not allat

[stray grove]

They may not be able to deal with GMS herself directly but they could potentially seal her like the Weavers did

[foggy fractal]

also aren't they the only two to have ever picked up a weapon

[foggy stratus]

-# everyone's laughing even after they pull up.

[floral quiver]

He wanted to and failed. His kingdom has all the hallmarks of a nascent empire, from capturing territory to expansionism to exploiting provincial territories (trade goes to the capital, it rarely goes from it).

Just because he couldn't doesn't remove the signs that his kingdom wanted to.

[spark valve]

yeah they're the only fighters, though dream shields also are a thing

[near jasper]

The reason gms didnt get soloed by murglin is she could fly away

[foggy stratus]

Imo Hallownest had the actual capability to work together. Mantises, Hive and Shamans imo could easily work together against the common enemy in the region.

[foggy fractal]

man the moths sucked they made dream shields 💔 mid ass charm

[stray grove]

Defensive spell but yes
I do think the moths would be a force to be reckoned with but combat spells don’t really exist and idk if they’d be able to develop them fast enough if they were being attacked and even then there’s the lack of combat experience

[spark valve]

well idk a lot of the alliances we see were facilitated by the king there probably wouldn't be a big unified force without him, good diplomat and allat

[stray grove]

Yeah

Even after PK a lot of them didn’t really get along

They just sorta tolerated one another

[near jasper]

Vespa soloes gms

[stray grove]

Where is this Vespa upscale coming from

[near jasper]

:)

[sinful nimbus]

Name a territory he captured btw

[foggy fractal]

all in le head?

[near jasper]

Half of hallownest soloes gms

[foggy stratus]

A common enemy can work wonders to unite a region to work together. If a pissed off angry silk god pulled up I imagine that could facilitate some of them working together.

[spark valve]

trained hornet or whatever

[stray grove]

If GMS and Weavers invaded a pre-PK Hallownest they’re wiping everyone except maybe Unn and WL if she’s there
The only hope of victory is either WL depending on how strong she actually is (and if she’s even present in the region) maybe Unn if the others reduce their numbers enough and depending on the extent of her weakening and the Shamans if they have an actual civilization at this point

PK was really the heavy hitter there

[floral quiver]

The Queen's Garden wasn't given to Hallownest by the Greenpathers by gift or treaty, it was taken by Hallownest.

[sinful nimbus]

What about ancient civ

[spark valve]

shamans etching runes into mantis claws 🔥 🖋️

[stray grove]

I think if she attacked AC she would lose

[foggy stratus]

They abandoned it then WL took up residence.

[foggy stratus]

Could Shamans siphon the Soul from Silk to supercharge spells?

[stray grove]

Soul Eater is a thing and Silk is Soul

They could

But idk how effective that would be to do mid combat

TK can but TK has a much more powerful version of focus

[foggy stratus]

If its fast enough or large enough it could deplete GMS.

[spark valve]

weavers are probably better in a fight than shamans but shamans could team up with the mosskin to act as magic artillery

[foggy fractal]

ancient civ has the size advantage lowkey

not like numbers size size as in they're big guys

[stray grove]

I think Shaman spells are generally more destructive

[sinful nimbus]

Y'all think shamans could set baldurs alight with flickering flame and roll them down hills or use them as cannonballs

[spark valve]

but you also have to think about shit like casting speed and cqc skill

[foggy fractal]

I never thought of that

intresting...

[near jasper]

Gms couldnt even get 57 score in the eternal ordeal shes cooked

[stray grove]

In a war they’d be better some Weavers are probably better in a straight fight but I also don’t think they’re all FS level

[sinful nimbus]

This why they keep them in their mounds

[spark valve]

baldur railgun with soul electromagnets

[stray grove]

We don’t know the kinda shit the Shamans had back in the day

[sinful nimbus]

Ellina has a random line pointing out how odd it is that there's a baldur in crystalized mound

[floral quiver]

An assumption. Given that the tablet that gives the Greenpathers opinion on the subject says it was theirs before being claimed, I'm less inclined to give "there was nobody there so we moved in" credence.

Thats what empires say when taking land

[stray grove]

Yeah I don’t think the Shamans should be in cqc

[spark valve]

they may have been pets or some sort of guardian

[sinful nimbus]

Baldur subspecies in Pharloom

Tuff

[spark valve]

yeah exactly, so supplement them with moss knight protective units

[stray grove]

The Shamans are smart enough to probably team up with like Unn who is chill

I don’t think everyone is teaming up though

[sinful nimbus]

Allat buildup (one line) for nothing

Why are we still on the queen's garden thing in 26

[stray grove]

Shrumals and Mantises could probably buy time for this to happen

Shrumals are weak but there’s a lot of them

[near jasper]

If gms and the weavers were in hallownest hunter would just nuke her off the map

[foggy stratus]

Is that a media literacy is dead thing or no?

[spark valve]

never gonna get off anything hollow knight fans can't read

[sinful nimbus]

Its ambiguous whether or not the mosskin inhabited the territory at that point and it'd be wildly out of character for WL

[stray grove]

Mantises might hold them off for a while

And thin their numbers

[spark valve]

nah wl is evil as silksong confirms and she raised hornet to also be evil and all about purging groups

[stray grove]

The Mosskin also don’t really give a shit for people who have just had land taken from them by force

“Yeah she seems chill but she a lil weird lowk”

[foggy fractal]

Sorry, but can you explain to me what the "queen's garden thing" is? I played Hollow Knight when I was very young and didn't really read the dialogues, much less discuss them in this discord server...

🤔

[spark valve]

they were also in decline due to unn so territory receding naturally makes sense as her influence waned and they had to get closer and closer

[foggy stratus]

"Primal source of silk"

"For a 'Higher Being' it was rather easy to kill. Made of loosely woven string I wonder how such a Being could be godly."-Hunter

[sinful nimbus]

Rad could've implanted that memory into Hornet

Its not her real character

[spark valve]

"A fine implement to pick my teeth"

[stray grove]

We also literally see an example of this happening thanks to the existence of FC

Which has GP flora and fauna but not a single Mosskin

Unless Monomon also forced them out lmao

[floral quiver]

Mosskin directly state their former claims to the territory in writing but that it's been claimed by a pale being

Totally ambiguous.

[stray grove]

Unn and PK also literally had a peace agreement

[foggy fractal]

Monomon: pack it up we got a fog canyon to build

[stray grove]

But nobody remembers this was a thing

[spark valve]

one built explicitly on respecting mosskin sovereignty

[foggy stratus]

The fact that a second interpretation came up independently of the one you have kidna says it is ambiguous. Enough so to at least speculate.

[near jasper]

Hunter could eat like 4 weavers before he started getting any issues with doing it

[stray grove]

Hunter probably loses to a couple Weavers at most

I love the guy but he’s not allat

[spark valve]

hunter's not that tough yeah

he's killed little weavers but that's different than fighting adult ones

[stray grove]

Little Weavers aren’t real

[foggy stratus]

"Uplifted archaicnid of a faraway kingdom"

"Odd, unnatural seeming beings with what appears to be natural killing instinct. They seem to have some form of string magic they use in battle. A truly unique hunt."-Hunter

[spark valve]

ah of course retconsong

[foggy fractal]

is there a consensus on who the second strongest character in hollow knight universe is

[stray grove]

PK

It’s PK/Rad you can’t really compare them

[near jasper]

Zote

[sinful nimbus]

https://tenor.com/view/invisible-air-demons-fighting-who-is-bro-fighting-gif-11839219315339306352

[stray grove]

MM but I don’t think he counts

[foggy fractal]

the demons 🐺

[spark valve]

in a fight or existentially

[foggy fractal]

what does existentially mean

🤔

[stray grove]

(Mister Mushroom)

[spark valve]

like by the nature of their being

[sinful nimbus]

MM or LoS

[spark valve]

eg wl is powerful as a god but might not be a very good fighter

[sinful nimbus]

LoS is both actually

[stray grove]

The question was second strongest

LoS is the first

[spark valve]

second best fighter might be pv

[stray grove]

MM is too different to compare imo

[stray grove]

PK clears

[floral quiver]

A peace agreement implies former emnity.

That Unn and the Pale King made peace at some point does not mean that they did so before the territory making up Queen's Garden was taken, or that the claim wasn't a potential sticking point that the mosskin couldnt do anything about during peace talks.

[foggy fractal]

ok lets go existentially

[sinful nimbus]

🙂‍↔️

[foggy fractal]

🙂‍↕️

[spark valve]

then it's the pk rad both/either

[stray grove]

PV’s spellcasting was taught to it by PK who was likely not only a more adept spellcaster but also had access to other spells PV didn’t use

[sinful nimbus]

like silk skills

[stray grove]

Guy had infinite soul and would’ve been borderline impossible to kill

[near jasper]

Bell eater is such a dogshit fight for a character thats so potentially strong

[spark valve]

pv also has exceptional martial capabilities

[foggy fractal]

yeah I think its a situation where he sits outside the tier list, though like above it in a sense

[sinful nimbus]

perhaps to the side of it

[dire lynx]

"potential eater"

[stray grove]

We don’t know about PK’s martial capabilities, I wouldn’t assume he was weak in that regard but even if he’s not quite on PV’s level his spellcasting like more than makes up for it

[near jasper]

Meet potential eater
0 wins
0 feats
7 thousand years sleeping

[stray grove]

Martial capabilities don’t matter if he can just wave his hand and turn you to dust from a mile away

Even if you get close to him you can’t deal any real damage and he has a million ways to kill you

[sinful nimbus]

her who could snuff out hope with barely a glance

[foggy fractal]

https://klipy.com/gifs/explode-terminator-1

[spark valve]

'lace doesn't act like a child'
meanwhile lace: "my mom is gonna beat you up!!!1!!1!!!1"

[sinful nimbus]

speedrunning sk discourses

[stray grove]

So like PK definitely outscales PV both offensively and defensively him maybe being worse in a fight if you take away his powers is irrelevant

[spark valve]

cqc my guy

[foggy fractal]

he will fly away :D

[stray grove]

Doesn’t matter bro you can’t damage him and he still has so many options to kill you in cqc
He can also fly and teleport lol

[spark valve]

nobody in the running for strongest can't fly or teleport other than los which can do that anyways if it loses the shell

[stray grove]

Oh LoS beats him definitely but nobody else comes close

Aside from the fact he and Rad can’t really fight one another

But like in order to kill PK you would have to one shot him which would be a ridiculous feat and probably require you to sneak attack him which may actually be impossible

You can’t wear him down and he’d instantly heal any other injury

[sinful nimbus]

A void assassin could maybe do it since void meddles with sensory powers

[dire lynx]

just make him sad, free win

[foggy fractal]

ok the consensus is
1 los
2 rad/pk
now whos 3 🤔

[sinful nimbus]

Just a thought for like an OC or something haha

[stray grove]

haha

[spark valve]

probably other hbs

[foggy stratus]

Nightmare Heart.

[dire lynx]

007

[stray grove]

Every other HB is basically featless so any/all of them except GMFraud

[dire lynx]

holding back the abyss is a pretty good feat

[spark valve]

lumaflies also did that

[foggy stratus]

If we say GMS we may as well just say Hornet.

[stray grove]

Once we’re done with the HBs it’s PV no contest then Hornet as much as I hate to admit it

[foggy stratus]

And a flower.

[stray grove]

Of course the real #2 is the first light

[sinful nimbus]

Lighthouse got retconned

[stray grove]

But we don’t talk about that

Actually it may even be #1

It beats void

[foggy stratus]

No. I refuse to believe it.

[spark valve]

wl's just senile

[sinful nimbus]

I mean it never existed in HK1 either tbf

PK was a light why did he need that

[foggy fractal]

oh yeah Tammo whats the deal with godseeker mode again? is it canon? I always forget

[floral quiver]

If a cornerstone of Pale Beingness is infinite Soul, why can we physically beat up all but one?

Why can The King instantly heal when Silk can't? Especially when silk's whole deal is healing and immortality outside of it's control by Silk?

[stray grove]

I think people tend to misinterpret WL’s SS dialogue a bit

[spark valve]

takes place after embrace the void

[stray grove]

It’s a bad line but I don’t think what she’s saying is actually that the first light is the only thing that can combat the void

[foggy fractal]

tk really be doing it for the love of the game huh 💔

[foggy stratus]

Because GMS is a fucking moron who doesn't actually use Silk in her fight as anything other than stylized tentacles.

[sinful nimbus]

might be a truth nuke

[stray grove]

What the flower does to void is different to what normal light does to it but also she’s talking about the current situation

[sinful nimbus]

God of silk throwing rocks at you

[floral quiver]

How do we know the Pale King wouldnt do the same?

[dire lynx]

gms is probably alot weaker when we fight her than she was during her prime

[sinful nimbus]

PK's progeny are way stronger than GMS

[foggy stratus]

Because someone had to train PV and it wasnt the Shamans and it sure as shit wasnt Soul Sanctum.

[stray grove]

GMS can’t regenerate her own silk lmao she needs to hunt down weaver descendants for that shit

PK had infinite soul

Garbage tier

Even PK’s offspring can just absorb soul from anything

[foggy fractal]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0Id_P4OIxOM&t=65s oh yeah this reminds me of this mod which looks very vanilla and adds some new attacks check it out

she drops a silk bomb

[sinful nimbus]

Is first light setting up a creation story in the final DLC

[foggy fractal]

maybe lmao

[foggy stratus]

GMS does the same shit in her fight that Widow does. Widow. Who I remind you, can't use her own damn silk.

[stray grove]

“Grand Mother Silk”

only uses physical attacks

TC were so creatively bankrupt not only did they make the silk spells regular soul spells they made the primal source of it a physical attacker

[sinful nimbus]

It's gonna have wyrms carving out the world man

Which is kinda tuff idk why I'm complaining

[stray grove]

No the wyrms are all evil or something

[spark valve]

imagine if pk actually carved king's pass why did they not go with that

[stray grove]

The first light cleansed the world of them and they were forced to hide underground

Lands serene is the surface

[sinful nimbus]

Well yeah lands serene is gonna be a twist villain

It being the surface is just natural

[dire lynx]

and the steel society are the surprise heroes

[stray grove]

It wasn’t very welcoming

[sinful nimbus]

Compressing higher beings was the solution all along!

[floral quiver]

Considering that the Citadel had been using her silk for time untold either she had just as much Soul as the King, or enough for it not to matter.

[sinful nimbus]

Except for Hornet, for she is not like her kin, maker.

[stray grove]

Compressed Lost Plasmified PK vs First Light is gonna be so tuff gng

[sinful nimbus]

One of the good ones

[spark valve]

she's not a cruel god, she just wants to exterminate the races she finds displeasing

[sinful nimbus]

strength in mind, in care, in claw

[stray grove]

She chooses to stand apart

[spark valve]

Foul creatures birthed into servitude. Their plight elicits no sympathy from me.

[foggy fractal]

oml it all leads back to slabfly journal entries 😭

[stray grove]

(From gross slaves)

[foggy fractal]

PLEASE TC

FIX THESE DIALOGUES

[stray grove]

That would require them to think about them which they clearly didn’t do

[spark valve]

but like actually it kinda does it totally undercuts all other characterization they have lol

[dire lynx]

widow would never

[foggy fractal]

WHAT HAPPENED TO We do not choose our mothers, or the circumstance into which we are born. Despite all the ills of this world, I'm thankful for the life she granted me.

[sinful nimbus]

The ills of this world are the flies

[dire lynx]

widow and herrah are the only two good weavers

[stray grove]

Hornet is uncaring, unrepentant…

And so she must seem

For such is the cost of her wish

Her wish being exterminating the flies lmao

[foggy fractal]

how about that one we see in weavers den

[sinful nimbus]

Its just FS

Herrah is ok ig

[stray grove]

I don’t fw Herrah retcon

She’s bad now

[spark valve]

do we really buy that FS didn't know what would happen after there is the atla effigy

[dire lynx]

if FS really is atla, then she sucks too

[stray grove]

Her being a common beast was like her only characterization

[sinful nimbus]

Its called character growth smh

[spark valve]

idk if realizing you're a monster makes you immediately not one

[dire lynx]

thats the only reason herrah is good, because her original writing didnt have her as a weaver

[stray grove]

Wyrm blood is so pure that Hornet was almost full blooded

[sinful nimbus]

She tried rebelling tbf

[stray grove]

Atla was lowk chill

I don’t know if she was personally responsible for a lot of the shit the Weavers did their fallout might’ve happened early on

[sinful nimbus]

I mean hanging out with PK and teaching him spells has got to earn you points

and shamans

[stray grove]

Like she was probably instrumental to defeating GMS but after they took over and started doing bad shit she may have immediately gone “hey guys I don’t really like this”

Which got her slabbed

She may not have been a monster

She just couldn’t do anything

[sinful nimbus]

Was she on board with Eva's treatment

[stray grove]

Yeah she allowed herself to be worshipped but that doesn’t mean she was complicit in their later actions

[stray grove]

tbf we don’t know when that was it’s said to have been an attempt to overcome their inability to reproduce so I imagine it was later that they were desperate enough to try that

[spark valve]

no eva was pre citadel

she was around while they were making shit to deal with gms

[stray grove]

Was she pre atla betrayal

[stray grove]

Ok fine

[spark valve]

atla betrayal would've been citadel era

[sinful nimbus]

Atla's a bad mother like everyone in Silksong

[stray grove]

Around that timeish

[foggy fractal]

how about shakra's master

[sinful nimbus]

Its part of the themes, "mothers will always betray you"

[dire lynx]

founding mother of the shitadel

[spark valve]

herrah's not bad

[foggy fractal]

FEELS

THE

AURA

[stray grove]

I think Atla betrayal was relatively early on though

[stray grove]

Gote

[stray grove]

She’s not good either

We can’t appraise her because she never got the chance

[dire lynx]

she was still the head of the weavers and lead in their plan to put gms sleepy sleepy

[stray grove]

Atla? Yes

But that wasn’t a bad thing to do

[spark valve]

putting gms to sleep isn't bad yeah

[stray grove]

The Weavers only did bad shit after taking over which Atla wasn’t on board with

[dire lynx]

the plan was always to enslave others into singing for them

[stray grove]

The only bad thing which she was responsible for was probably Eva

[stray grove]

It may not have been that sinister at its inception

[dire lynx]

in what way?

i dont thing anyone would willingly waste their lives singing for some bumass weavers

without being lied to or fooled

[spark valve]

it's possible the slaves weren't the original plan and just came up after they got her asleep as a way to ease the burden

[stray grove]

There are like more than a few ways to go about that

[dire lynx]

the entire rebellion and weavenest stuff started because the weavers didnt want to sing for gms

[stray grove]

We don’t know if the slaves were originally part of the plan

[stray grove]

Which is fair yes

[floral quiver]

Very obviously so. The Underworks came with industrialization and the automation of the song later in the Citadel'a existence.

[dire lynx]

sure, but that doesnt make it ok to force others to do it for you lmao

[stray grove]

That wasn’t necessarily the original plan

They may have underestimated how difficult it would be to keep her asleep

[floral quiver]

You don't force them. You persuade them and charge them with purpose.

[spark valve]

or just gotten lazy

[dire lynx]

my bad, you lie to and manipulate them

got the words mixed

[stray grove]

It wouldn’t have been sustainable anyway the citadel was intended to last forever (or at least far longer than the weavers’ natural lifespans would allow)

Like that would never have been a long term option

[floral quiver]

Metal is better than flesh at singing forever. Machines can be repaired, bodies cannot.

[stray grove]

They probably also saw it as a necessary evil at the time

Like they didn’t go full evil mode until later

[floral quiver]

A sacrifice by honored martyrs

Same with soulfly robotics

[stray grove]

No the weavers still suck and it was a shitty thing to do

WHAT

[spark valve]

I mean everyone in ss saw their evils as instrumental hornet is the only puppy kicker

[stray grove]

You cannot be defending the soulfly robots 😭

[limpid summit]

You know what

Yeah you can

[stray grove]

Yeah you can

[limpid summit]

Technically it means no more pilgrims HAD to come

(They still did)

[stray grove]

Those were all necessary evils in context anyway

And in the long term the robots were better

[spark valve]

replacement parts

[limpid summit]

True..

[stray grove]

But framing it as a “sacrifice by honored martyrs” is kinda 💀

The citadel did not care lol

[limpid summit]

Idk they probably expected twelfth architect to just make a thirteenth one instead of dying like a bum

[stray grove]

They just threw bodies in the meat grinder

[limpid summit]

I wonder if they have that secret in the vaults

[spark valve]

that is what 'martyrs' tend to be

[limpid summit]

We should have coordinated with Cardinius to make a new architect

[floral quiver]

I'm not?

You said that they would see enslavement as a necessary evil, a sacrifice. Same with the soulflies, a necessary sacrifice, martyrdom in the name of eternal song.

I'm agreeing with you that they would see those things as sacrifices.

[stray grove]

Indeed

[dire lynx]

her program was faded, the automisation of the citadel would never have wored out anyway

[stray grove]

There are already 13

Count them

Go ahead

[spark valve]

there's a mirror somewhere one is a reflection

[stray grove]

How convenient

[sinful nimbus]

remember when reflections were revealed like a year ago

so tuff

[lethal kayak]

Silksong carceral system questions. Could the haunting not enslave bugs intentionally?
I'm thinking why put them into jails/prison/slab and waste the labor. It seems Wardenflies have minds somewhat intact (hunting Hornet), but Benjin & Crull say roachkeepers are lost - why would they incarcerate Green Prince then? Wiki doesn't seem to have answers, for Grindle it was 'light thievery' - idk if that was a sane bug or not either. No rush

[stray grove]

Slabflies are haunted too

Basically everyone is haunted

But haunted doesn’t mean they’ve lost the ability to think

Most of them still act like they normally would

[spark valve]

and hornet still doesn't feel bad for the children born into slavery and squalor! what a great protagonist!

[dire lynx]

haunting does what the infection in the first game did, bugs lose their free will and mindlessly carry out the jobs they did in life

[limpid summit]

For the most partInfected bugs sort of ape through the motions of life Haunted bugs are more prone to actually doing them

[stray grove]

They’re the same man

[limpid summit]

I know

I just try to avoid it

[spark valve]

this is ignoring the zombie factor many infected had

[lethal kayak]

Interesting ty! But the haunting couldn't intentionally put bugs under control then right - like would they have to already have 'generations of silk' inside + belief that made it easier?

[stray grove]

No the strings can just come down and haunt anyone

The ones with silk inside them are just more prone to it

But also silk is in the air and water it’s everywhere

Everyone is full of silk

[lethal kayak]

Grindle was so digusting GMS didn't want to even enslave him huh

[dire lynx]

when gms was awake she could probably have done it alot easier, the pre-existing silk just made it so she could do it while basically asleep/weakened

[stray grove]

Well you can resist it

[lethal kayak]

Ahh forgot about that, good point

[stray grove]

Idk if Grindle specifically is

[limpid summit]

The snitchfly enemies are haunted (?)

[stray grove]

Yes

I think so

[lethal kayak]

My thought generally was 'why have jails if you can enslave them' but being able to resist + GMS weaker when in slumber seems to give all the answers

[dire lynx]

they dont attack with the thieves mark equipped, never played needolin for em tho

[stray grove]

The jails were already there and GMS isn’t like directly commanding individual slabflies anyway

They just go about their normal routines

[lethal kayak]

Jails formed before GMS came into power/Pharloom then?

[foggy fractal]

I don't think so? not these ones at least

[stray grove]

No

[dire lynx]

no, when the citadel was in power

[sinful nimbus]

Power in Pharloom went from GMS to the Citadel ruled by the weavers, then the Citadel ruled by the Conductors, then back to GMS again with the haunting

Jails were formed when the weavers were ruling the Citadel and have been in operation since

[limpid summit]

Then to Gurr and Fayforn

[dire lynx]

gurr dead

[sinful nimbus]

where's his corpse

[stray grove]

No Gurr is an Old Heart

[limpid summit]

And idk Crawfather too

[stray grove]

Crawdaddy is the best SS character unironically

[limpid summit]

When was Phantom born

[floral quiver]

In the name of industrialization to keep a song going eternally.

To the bugs of the Citadel it was a necessary sacrifice to enact their charge.

We have a monument honoring the martyrdom of those who became soulflies.

That it wasn't necessary and was morally repugnant doesn't mean they just did it to be evil.

Near everything done was to keep the Song going, thus why being infirm or sick was a major sin even to those high in the hierarchy, because being sick and inferm means you can't do your job in keeping the Song going forever.

Like, it's a mindset antithetical to the general modern world's but to say they did things for what amounts to evil and because they could just isn't true. They did horrible things for a terrible purpose, not just because.

[limpid summit]

No come on dude it’s Sherma

[sinful nimbus]

He's not that tuff

[limpid summit]

Don’t kid yourself

[sinful nimbus]

All aura no lore under the hood

[limpid summit]

Genuinely Sherma is well written

[sinful nimbus]

True

[spark valve]

no it's caretaker until slop three

[sinful nimbus]

Best character is like Cardinius though just based on vibes

Caretaker and Bell Hermit are up there

[limpid summit]

True

And true

[dire lynx]

its funny how much worse chapel maid is compared to the other two

[stray grove]

Caretaker is good Bell Hermit is under utilized

[limpid summit]

Bell hermit should have worked out better

[sinful nimbus]

Chapel Maid has nothing to say man it sucks

[foggy fractal]

how about shakra

[stray grove]

Chapel Maid is also a nothing character

Bell Hermit had one good line and looks cooler

[limpid summit]

It’s crazy how you have to backtrack all the way to ruined chapel WITH the twisted child to make the connection between them

Who is going to do that

[sinful nimbus]

All his lines are bangers

[stray grove]

All two of them

[sinful nimbus]

I'll waste no more words on a slave, begone!

[dire lynx]

her bumass is one of the main arguments used by lace age deniers, so she sucks

[stray grove]

Before he gets incorporated into the shaman hive mind

[spark valve]

bell hermit is what elderbug is trying and failing to be

[sinful nimbus]

That's not her fault 💔

[spark valve]

well no that's more caretaker

[stray grove]

Caretaker is based

[dire lynx]

loretaker

[limpid summit]

Caretaker is awesome

Some of the best exchanges in the game

[dire lynx]

or giver, i suppose

[spark valve]

caretaker is good, it's rare for an exposition character to be fun

[dire lynx]

bell ringing lout 🗣️

[foggy fractal]

dawg don't blame her blame the lace age deniers

[stray grove]

I just like snail shamans

[dire lynx]

"shakra calls hornet a child"

[spark valve]

yeah but it's not shakra's fault those people can't read

[stray grove]

This is why WL sucks actually

[limpid summit]

I think changing up the body types was fun but they look a little disproportionate

[stray grove]

Purity discussions and first light

[limpid summit]

Esp hoodless caretaker

[stray grove]

What else did this senile bum give us

[limpid summit]

But like

[spark valve]

half of kingsoul, mooching off her husband's cred

[limpid summit]

Aww

[stray grove]

Sherma is good because he’s the only SS character with an arc

[spark valve]

caretaker

[foggy fractal]

and then hornet corrects her AND shakra corrects herself
BLAME THE FANS!!!!!!

[stray grove]

Yes as established Caretaker is good

[sinful nimbus]

WL was tuff in the first game

[dire lynx]

the people who larp the game never saw trails end, so they dont know shakra corrects herself

[stray grove]

Hornet does probably look pretty young in universe she doesn’t exactly age normally

[foggy fractal]

😭 L Larps...

[limpid summit]

Seth

[spark valve]

really hitting all the dragon tropes

[limpid summit]

Amnesia arc

[stray grove]

Shut up man

[stray grove]

True

[sinful nimbus]

the burning hatred in her heart

[stray grove]

The evil genes that she has to fight

[spark valve]

the cruel disregard for 'lesser' beings

[limpid summit]

The wings

[dire lynx]

the hoarding of wealth

[stray grove]

https://tenor.com/view/meme-gif-1457473106328210491

[elfin comet]

hornet should have let lace die

[limpid summit]

Yeah

[stray grove]

Dragon spider is actually so cool how did TC fuck it up

[foggy fractal]

what do we think of these guys

[sinful nimbus]

I can think of a better game with a spider ability

[stray grove]

Me too

[foggy fractal]

I can think of a better game

[stray grove]

I can think

[foggy fractal]

nine sols

[dire lynx]

big

[stray grove]

Nine Slops

[sinful nimbus]

Way better giant designs ngl

[lunar wing]

They look chubby

[sinful nimbus]

in comparison to the first game

Wyrm excluded ofc Nailsmith was also kinda tuff

[spark valve]

old ant prey

[elfin comet]

bugs

[limpid summit]

Is this how the Skarr were moving when they were prejudiced

[stray grove]

First one is cool second one is mid

[foggy fractal]

that big and they're still prey ? 😭 were the skarr moving crazy back then ?

[stray grove]

I don’t think killing big animals is that hard

[sinful nimbus]

You think they got ohmus

[spark valve]

hunting parties unified under karmelita's song

[elfin comet]

those are like ancient ancient bugs i think

[sinful nimbus]

Truth nuke

[spark valve]

when is the daikaisho hitting pharloom

[stray grove]

Hunting parties are a thing yeah with enough muscle you can take down anything

[elfin comet]

what is the bell shaman doing there this mf has like 4 voice lines and have of them are callinghornet a slave 😭

[sinful nimbus]

They ran them into the thorn pits like mammoths

[dire lynx]

you sound like a slave ngl

[spark valve]

12 also deserves S let's be real

[sinful nimbus]

Sentinel

[dire lynx]

top of a for both

[sinful nimbus]

Greyroot

[spark valve]

D

[sinful nimbus]

tf

[stray grove]

Greyroot is boring

Nyleth and the robots are S

[elfin comet]

can we just talk about how triple t connects to silksong lore

[stray grove]

Just kidding Nyleth is like B

[elfin comet]

this gotta be ragebait

[dire lynx]

nyleth is like d

[stray grove]

Well wandering seed lore brings her up a bit

If the rest of her lore wasn’t ass she’d be an easy S

[dire lynx]

just a worse version of an existing character ngl

[spark valve]

that's not really her being a character though

[sinful nimbus]

thatsprolifeactually tumblr follower

[stray grove]

She isn’t a character

Skull

Hornet is actually pro life

[elfin comet]

nyleth is just there for shellwood lore

[stray grove]

Unless it’s slabflies

[sinful nimbus]

ts still cracks me up man

[elfin comet]

maybe hornet after lost lace ending

[sinful nimbus]

Its still tumblr ig

[stray grove]

Mr favorite character agrees with me

[limpid summit]

The pale king is pro life

[stray grove]

I’m going to beat you to death

[sinful nimbus]

the fictional character would agree with me, see, SEE?!

[lunar wing]

Compromise, conformity, assimilation, submission, ignorance, hypocrisy, brutality, the elite?!?!??!?

[dire lynx]

pale king and wl are actually pro choice(see mass abortion in abyss)

[elfin comet]

wait i just remembered what pro life meant