sk-lore

[limpid summit]

Are repeat trials like

“Canon”

[spark valve]

probably

same tamer different beast

Veteran warrior of the Colosseum of Fools. Fights by the side of creatures she has trained.
creatures plural

[foggy fractal]

last judge is an ant confirmed

[limpid summit]

Breeding pits must stretch so far back

How do you think they keep that in order

It must be a ridiculous operation

Little Fool is the only admin we see and he’s chained

[foggy fractal]

I mean

colo doesn't really makes sense anyway

like if you think about all the enemies that need to fit

like where are they when the trial isn't active

off screen ig

the z axis and all

[spark valve]

if tc was really concerned with realism they would've had water pumped in from blue lake for naval battles in one of the trials

[limpid summit]

Maybe fighting other competitors?

[foggy fractal]

where

[limpid summit]

Every gladiator enemy is fighting their own trial

That’s deep man

[foggy fractal]

z axis 🗣️

[limpid summit]

Yeah Z axis

And even the ones we see

[foggy fractal]

its always the z axis :chill

🥶

chills man

oh wait doesn't some enemies during silksong's gauntlets literally come from the foreground
like the first wave of ants in karmelita's fight, the z axis is real 🤔

[near jasper]

And the one vaultkeeper

[sinful nimbus]

Original tweet is crazy man

[near jasper]

Yeah

[limpid summit]

@whole holly yo nick

Question

Ha! I'm not surprised! It's always the way, aye? Your ancient kind, vying for dominion, and us mortal bugs squashed unseen underneath.

This is how Mask Maker contextualizes the difference between PBs/HBs and regular bugs

I feel as if Mister Mushroom’s talk of readjusting is relevant

He’s not drawn into HB conflicts or their demise

[unique tangle]

I feel like this is a flanderization of HBs as they were in HK

[limpid summit]

Oh I mean for sure

[unique tangle]

The conflict between HBs really wasn’t really “vying for domination” idk why TC keeps writing them like that in silksong

[limpid summit]

I guess MM has never met a benevolent HB

Hallownest did have a few

[unique tangle]

They’re dumbing their lore down

[limpid summit]

He might be talking just about pale beings there

But even then

[unique tangle]

For no reason

[sinful nimbus]

Reframe it

PK was so cool he was able to fight his base instincts

[foggy stratus]

Just about all of them were benevolent at one point, at least to our current knowledge.

[sinful nimbus]

WL was just a sycophant poser though

[limpid summit]

True

But in the context of SS I don’t think mask maker would call rad benevolent

[unique tangle]

Yeah none of them were outright aggressive beyond radiance who was betrayed

And even then radiance’s actions weren’t aimed at “domination”

She just wanted revenge

Is TC just writing fanfiction at this point

[foggy fractal]

w team cherry

[foggy stratus]

Mask Maker:Silksong has only know GMS’ bs. He likely doesn’t know Higher/Pale Beings can be benevolent.

[unique tangle]

I don’t mean just mask maker

Hornet keeps speaking like all HBs want to do is conquer too

It’s such a weird tone to set compared to their more nuanced portrayal back in HK

[foggy stratus]

Hornet hit her head a few dozen times during her fall ig.

She said the WingsMolds didn’t work or some shit so I question her mental faculties.

Also the Slab Fly entries.

We should just not trust Hornet anymore.

[unique tangle]

Or maybe she’s just projecting

[foggy fractal]

yeah lmao
A crude construct of my father's fallen domain. Only a fool believes that void can be fashioned to do their bidding.
she says as if Kingsmoulds didn't work perfectly fine 😔

[unique tangle]

Maybe Hornet is just the only bug that feels the urge to destroy civilizations

[lyric rose]

Maybe GMS is a Dommy-

[unique tangle]

And she blames it on her HB blood to deflect from her own bloodlust

Hornet is just the only crazy one

[foggy stratus]

I can point at like four separate instances of Void being fashioned to do bidding.

[limpid summit]

I hate higher beings but I would Never Ever Ever leave a freshfly alive

[foggy stratus]

Kill the babies. If Hornet really hated the Slab and its Flies, she would have cut that child down. Shes only a casual bug-ist tho. Tsk tsk.

[lyric rose]

It sits in the background. It is therefore impervious to two dimensional folk

[craggy smelt]

couldn't keep Pale King from killing himself
failed at mental health counseling

[foggy stratus]

TK would have DDarked it. Yet another reason why TK solos all of Pharloom.

[unique tangle]

Maybe the collector was supposed to be his void construct therapist

And that’s what Hornet is talking about

The collector failed so pale king killed himself

The fool

[lyric rose]

But he was too busy playing with the cookie jar

[craggy smelt]

collector was collecting cute things for hornet, but failed

[foggy fractal]

maybe those weren't their jobs
that would go pretty crazy tho

[lyric rose]

They can’t be a worse therapist than Parappa though

[craggy smelt]

couldn't keep PK entertained so he died of boredom

[foggy stratus]

Trobbio was PK’s jester.

[lyric rose]

PK: “My life is meaningless.”
Parappa: “Your life is meaningless.”

[craggy smelt]

if that were true I bet he'd still be around

"I have nothing else, but at least there's the next Trobbio performance"

[foggy stratus]

Torbbio got drafted into the Knotted Grove then got kidnapped by Pharloomian spies.

The real reason PK died was because he lost his Trobbio.

[lyric rose]

PK is lucky he didn’t hire the same architect behind the Ancient Basin elevator

[near jasper]

sawtooth circle cant break silk spools, this a reference to how the 5th architect was publically executed after breaking a single dreg

[lyric rose]

Seriously what the FRICK is this?

[craggy smelt]

big elevator shaft

would have connected the ancient basin area to the City proper

probably added to make it easier to reach White Palace

[lyric rose]

What is wrong with the architecture?

Random haphazard wood planks?

[craggy smelt]

under construction, ig

[lyric rose]

With spikes installed?

[near jasper]

Its pk

[craggy smelt]

keeps wildlife and squatters away

[near jasper]

He had sawblades in his castle

[sinful nimbus]

spike higher being

[craggy smelt]

i think the flukes are down there

[near jasper]

Can't flukes fly

[foggy fractal]

too op

[near jasper]

I think its east to Dodge spikes like that

[craggy smelt]

Hallownest Workers: "SHIIIIIT~!"

[plain ruin]

I mean the elevator clearly broke at some point, was probably undergoing a shitload of work when the second wave of the infection hit

[covert hamlet]

I don't really know if it's technically lore but I want to know why vog is the only flea with nostrils

[foggy stratus]

Art style choice. Chances are all other fleas have nostrils its just that Vog's is the only one with visible ones.

[covert hamlet]

Fair

[foggy stratus]

Same applies to hands and mouths.

[covert hamlet]

Its still probably not lore but why is baby flea have no eye but adult flea have eye

[foggy stratus]

Hidden under the floof.

[covert hamlet]

No I thought they have no hands because they are baby little dog guys I thought

You can't see their shell either

[foggy stratus]

Wait... no eye?

[covert hamlet]

Well you can't see them

[foggy stratus]

Hands in general not Hands for fleas.

[covert hamlet]

Ah okay

[foggy stratus]

[foggy stratus]

Its under the floof.

[covert hamlet]

Flea?

Would no eyes say awooo?

[foggy stratus]

Perchance.

[covert hamlet]

I like fleas more than grubs tbh I think they're cuter

I don't really like bugs in real life all that much and the fleas have their bug-ness hidden under the floof so maybe that's why

I love discussing flea lore

[foggy stratus]

Just about every "bug" in HK world has their bug-ness hidden/taken away.

[covert hamlet]

Well yeah

But the grubs are lumpy

[foggy stratus]

They're just fat.

[covert hamlet]

Fleas still cuter

I like that they don't get eaten or murdered by mimics

[robust wagon]

Real 🙏

[fast wolf]

Keep in mind that the version of the white palace we see is just a memory it might just be how that guard felt about the white palace that made it so dangerous

[median jungle]

so what exactly is the deal with the cocoon?? why does she do that? is it like with tk where it isn't fully canon?

[plain ruin]

Canonically, Hornet doesn't die during Silksong, that's just a gameplay feature

Idk if Hornet would leave behind a cocoon like that if she were canonically killed fighting Moorwing or something, though

[dapper willow]

There is no way someone wouldt much on her cocoon if she died for reals either

[median jungle]

Wouldn't it be neato mosquito if it was some kind of thing related to how she's the daughter of a guy who's pretty well known for coming back from death in a new body

[dapper willow]

she is also the daughter of the guy who can see the future

and who's abilities appearted to be rather not as foolproof as some people believed

[sick tinsel]

the only diffrence shades are canon

[zinc jasper]

Quick question, is Phantom and Hornet related in any way? Because some of their moves seem really similar and it got me thinking

[frank dove]

Yes I believe that is canon

But her respawning and breaking them is not

[pseudo narwhal]

I think it's sort of convergent evolution between fighting styles. Phantom uses longpin and Hornet uses needle, and both weapons are kinda similar to javelin.

[frank dove]

Aha I found penance by silencing guy

He's the silk memory in the slab

'of the fourth' might be envoys or other citadel workers

[zinc jasper]

Ahhh okay that would make more sense, thanks

[junior wren]

Hi @frank dove

[inner coral]

Hi

[foggy stratus]

Technically she's her aunt.

[zinc jasper]

[foggy stratus]

[sick tinsel]

maybe but if we think about it weavers (including herrah) are elevated creatures

phantom is directly made of silk

[dire lynx]

the weavers are still partially silk, as it was used to uplift them and incorporated itself into their biology.

[sick tinsel]

mhm

this makes phantom 25% related to hornet ?

[dire lynx]

id say maybe 50

[lyric rose]

Speaking of phantom, I noticed when doing Weaver Queen ending in my second playthrough that Grand Mother Silk’s head begins to resemble Phantom’s weird black horns near the end of the binding

[foggy fractal]

presumably she just looks like that under the hair
same with Lace

[lyric rose]

Ye

[foggy fractal]

though Lace has eyes but the others doesn't

[lyric rose]

Maybe silk tried to make Phantom more in the image of herself but that backfired because silk’s too much of a b#tch

[near jasper]

You can also kind of see it on sotv after you silksoar

[whole holly]

godseeker in pharloom bay : our mind a sea of sorrows

[winter bay]

Hi

[near jasper]

Hello Hatsune Miku from hatsune Miku

[winter bay]

I am speak spanish xd and inglish

[frank dove]

Huh?

[whole holly]

i think Godseeker's will be in pharloom sea of sorrows DLC

[whole holly]

it's a joke on twitter:

[hollow wolf]

#wewishforseaofsorrow

[craggy smelt]

about 2/3rds of a year left for it to come out

[whole holly]

There is a 1 in 261 chance that Sea of sorrow releases today!

[silver tundra]

Do yall think Greyroot will be explored a bit more in Sea of Sorrow?

[sour sleet]

wait

crust king khann = genghis khann

think about it

sands of karak = karakoram

strongest army ever

largest empire, ruled with iron fist

[whole holly]

i don't think so, unless by mention or another member of the species

[whole holly]

not surprising

[whole holly]

Nyleth and the region of Shellwood draw heavily from Ancient Mesopotamian and Sumerian "Earth Mother" archetypes, also hanging gardens of Babylon

Verdania is certainly celtic

Karmelita might be steppe-nomadic???

[sour sleet]

tribe trained to fight from birth, expert trap setters, wield bone weapons, maybe like neandrathals or the ancient british?

[sour sleet]

indo european horse people sounds plausible, except for the fact that the skarrs were grounded

[whole holly]

scandinavian influences are there, like viking-adjacent, people between vikings and steppe-nomads would be scythians, which are described as land vikings

[sour sleet]

idk im no lore/history expert the ckk thing just came to mind

[whole holly]

they aren't just horse people, not entirely

[whole holly]

that is widespread, so it makes sense and is agreeable

[paper mantle]

🤔

[paper mantle]

I don't see similarities with Shade Beast

[whole holly]

i meant on how they are both preserved and give their thoughts, not visual similarities

also how both weavers and shade beast give people skills or abilities(Shade Cloak, Ancestral Arts, Silk Skills )

how did Shade Beast pacify the Void in his Cup anyways??

[near jasper]

He gave it a dog treat

[whole holly]

i wander if vessel could learn AC's Skills and Abilities(which i personally like to call Dark Arts) if given opportunity? i mean in HK1 we got Abyss Shriek, Shade Cloak and Sharp Shadow but one is a Spell, other is Traversal Ability and other is a Charm(that contains spell) so clearly the controlled and wielded void like Weavers use their Silk

i wish we knew more about them

[foggy stratus]

The "dark arts" as you call them are an insanely small quantity of things. Only two really count, one of which is rather dicey(Abyss Shriek)

Shade Cloak is just being dipped in Void.

[whole holly]

part of me wishes that it wasn't

[foggy stratus]

I want more as well now.

[whole holly]

yeah but it is calmed when it shouldn't be

[whole holly]

Abyss Shriek clearly existed in some form before being merged with Shaman Spell

i also wish Shakra's and Seth's weird energy bombs was learnable martial arts as well

[foggy stratus]

Or the Abyss shriek room is some form of memorial to some fallen individuals of the AC that took the opportunity to he merged with something so their vocues could be heard again.

[whole holly]

they have intention for their voices to be heard again, i would say it as a spell of some kind, spell or energy is there, they just have no means to use it

[whole holly]

is it heat energy? soul energy? is there some things we still down know?

[foggy stratus]

Seth's could be a stylized Shockwave. I'd say the same for Shakra's if not for her weird dash attack.

[jagged sun]

Vibrations/ shockwaves probably

[pseudo narwhal]

Shakra things looks like sound wave
Like a power of POSHANKA

[jagged sun]

Does anyone have any info on how old hearts are defined? Someone made a video and mentioned a possible Old Heart in the Fungal Core in the Fungal Wastes.

Is it a physical change when one obtains a certain amount of influence and power that alters their physical heart?

Or something else?

[whole holly]

oh, okay, that makes sense, both Shock and Sound waves have resonance, also Song has power in pharloom is it possible that Shock/Soundwave is also magical?

[whole holly]

can you share video with me? if you have link to it?

[jagged sun]

I don't know where the video is, sorry.

[whole holly]

well, Old Heart status is inherited as they are described as Last Successors and Mortal Powers, typically they lead/unite inhabitants of their land and are connected to lands "rhythms", whatever that means in lore

[foggy stratus]

Sift through your watch history for it if it was watched recently.

[jagged sun]

About a month ago, I just remembered it after seeing some fanart of the Old Hearts

[pseudo narwhal]

I think Old Hearts are not physical things, it's more like Everbloom - representation of spirit and power Hornet finds in memories and manifests with the Elegy of the Deep

[whole holly]

Vespa might qualify, Isma who knows there are no actual inhabitants in her Grove but she might be like Nyleth and could become Old Heart in future, maybe Herrah? or Monomon?? as old hearts are connected to both flora and fauna, who knows Ancient Shrumal in Fungal Core might qualify if they unite the hivemind

[jagged sun]

I meant as in the bugs that are classified as the Old Hearts

So Old Hearts are basically bugs of great power that unité areas and their inhabitants?

[whole holly]

Old Heart isn't really a classification? they have no defining characteristics and certainty not enough common patterns , direct analogue of Karmelita might be Vespa since Vespa while alive delayed infection of hive so she absolutely could be old heart, Nyleth's parallels are Monomon, and Isma and maybe Ancient Mushroom you mentioned? as for Khann? we don't have equivalent really in Hallownest

[jagged sun]

I meant classified as in "are said by the Snail Shamans to be Old Hearts".

[whole holly]

old hearts are whoever shamans noted as powerful and unexpectedly green prince, i would rely on Moss Druid's synthesis more if she didn't speak in metaphors

[jagged sun]

Also they're mortal

[whole holly]

well, Snail Shamans don't note any other Character as Powerful Mortal in first game

[whole holly]

but according to her Mossland should be gaining one, any day now, let's wait for DLC

[jagged sun]

So in Hallownest, Vespa is definitely something like one, but Monomon seems to have just edited a piece of Greenpath to look like her homeland, so she can't be one, although she is close

[jagged sun]

What does she say about that?

[whole holly]

she asks if we heart beat of mosslands, mossberries trigger visions, there is a faint beat and she says there is new rhythm in act 3 which hornet mistakes as Void Threads/Quakes

[jagged sun]

Ooh yes that does seem interesting

Although I sadly feel like it won't appear in a DLC, since the Old Hearts are such a big part of Act III, and there's already a lush green area based Old Heart (Green Prince)

[whole holly]

we don't know if monomon actually experimented on greenpath, it seems the could have "sowed the first seeds" and who knows she might have been old heart, Herrah rules both Deepnest Spiders and Weavers and united them so who knows, Ancient Mushroom is interesting case for me too

[whole holly]

there is "New Moss Heart" in Act 3 already, Moss Druid just needs to clarify specifics without metaphors

also Fayforn is called Fell Heart of the Frost, Father of the Flame as Pyre's Heart and Grand Mother Silk as Heart of the Haunting

[whole holly]

they are probably nothing but recurring theme, FotF and GMS certainly aren't Old Hearts

[jagged sun]

Fayforn definitely is if it's mortal, although there's a good chance it's a higher beingm

Ah shoot, gtg

[twin dragon]

fayforn is def a heart

[jagged sun]

Thanks for the info Nick

[whole holly]

no problem, anytime

[jagged sun]

Hearts have to be mortal

Anyways bye!

[whole holly]

bye

[twin dragon]

Yeah fayforn seems like a strong enough mortal

[sinful nimbus]

Fayforn old heart agenda must be pushed

[whole holly]

i will push back

Fayforn will always be Higher Being to me

[twin dragon]

no nick, an achievementless being cant be a hb

[pseudo narwhal]

There are also silk hearts
And Cogwork Heart of Second Sentinel
||And also a bunch of hearts in the first game - void, lifeblood, crystal, fragile/unbreakable||
So maybe it's just a fancy name

[whole holly]

we haven't seen it's achievements

[twin dragon]

Hearts do seem to be of importance in the game

[twin dragon]

It would've had a better presentation anyways

the determining factor for a hb is aura

[whole holly]

well, yeah, that is true

[whole holly]

idk about you but she has more aura than Radiance, Mister Mushroom literally agrees clearly

[twin dragon]

what, no

radiance is THE sun

mr mushroom mentions fayforn because well, whats more to mt fay

[whole holly]

lame one

[whole holly]

he clearly takes interest in THE Fayforn

[twin dragon]

oversized bird with a cheap double jump's kinda mid too

[twin dragon]

Yeah it's a strong-ish mortal

or yk, the thing that the players would remember the most about mt fay

[whole holly]

i don't see that confirmed

[twin dragon]

not enough hb material

even rn

[whole holly]

i disagree

[twin dragon]

anyways groal is the heart of the vomit

[whole holly]

Bile Heart, only forgotten because shamans have anti-bilewater agenda ever since death of that dumb shaman

[twin dragon]

i mean, everyone does kinda

they jump outsiders

[whole holly]

they deserve it, too

Bilewater has right to defend itself

[pseudo narwhal]

Still Heart, preserved in Bilewater soundtrack
So you can restore the place to it's former glory

Imagine Stillwater as dlc area

Like ||infected crossroads||
But ||desinfected||

[whole holly]

Bilewater will become plasmified before that happens

i wonder what mix of Lifeblood and Muckmaggot Water will be like?

[whole holly]

probably not super tasty

[twin dragon]

pilgrims btw

[whole holly]

wasn't it haunted bugs, slabflies, shaman?

[twin dragon]

i mean not always haunted

js pilgrims

that took a wrong turn

[limpid summit]

Do you perhaps mean a fayforn

I’m sure he’d talk to the driftlins too if they were all grown up

[whole holly]

how do you get to bilewater without being haunted

[twin dragon]

yeah fayforn seems to have biological children

[whole holly]

he can't fly

[twin dragon]

smt smt citadel

or wrong route

[whole holly]

that's just your assumption

[limpid summit]

Look I get trying to downscale him but wdym he can’t fly lmao

[twin dragon]

brother the stilkin are also haunted im pretty sure

literally doesnt matter

[whole holly]

??? i am not trying to downscale him, he literally talks to fayforn, what could be more upscaling than that?

[twin dragon]

mr mushroom talk to the only notable thing in mt fay, therefore fayforn hb

absolutely flawless

[whole holly]

sure but they aren't part of citadel, and aren't potentially aggressive again Bilewater's Sovereignty

[limpid summit]

I think she’s just chill

[twin dragon]

Yeah and yet they still murk the pilgrims

[whole holly]

not really, weavers either were given insight or death, probably based on her mood

[whole holly]

show me non-choir pilgrims screenshot

[limpid summit]

They’re evil weavers

A handful of things are more upscaling than talking to fayforn anyway

Not a HB and probably not a heart either

[twin dragon]

what would choir pilgrims be doing there at all lmfao

they dont exit the citadel

nika larping

defending groal the impaler

[whole holly]

why would weavers commune with Fayforn anyways??

[whole holly]

? they are there??

[twin dragon]

likely choirbugs not choir pilgrims

Armed forces wtv

break any of those bags n you see a regular old pilgrim fall out

[whole holly]

oh, they could be choirbugs without choir outfits, or anything really, almost certainly haunted

[twin dragon]

we just saying shit now

[limpid summit]

Who knows

[whole holly]

but it was unsettling for sure, just as bad as deepnest

[limpid summit]

Maybe they wanted to seek her aid against GMS

[twin dragon]

oh yeah they're choirbugs without anything that makes them a choirbug

[whole holly]

it doesn't matter who they are, they killed snail shaman i don't think they care

[twin dragon]

doesnt make them right or wtv

[whole holly]

why would it?

[twin dragon]

i dont know what youre arguing atp

they're fine with murking pilgrims on the spot

[civic elm]

Who frees hornet at the start of the game

[foggy fractal]

Your legged ancestors once found her company compelling, enough to build their chambers and their calling device at the height of this perilous peak.

weavers found her company compelling

Upon that summit gained, and creature hailed, know it shall choose what gift to grant, with death as likely as insight.

fayforn also gave gifts or insight (but also death apparently)

[civic elm]

I thought snail shamans died puttibg the hearts in hornet

[pseudo narwhal]

I have another silly theory
That Fayforn can grant you a wish, but only if it's something you truly want (and death if you lie to her)
So Hornet gets wings and soft lining for her cloak because she loves fluffy things and was always wish she could fly

[whole holly]

i am not arguing? Bilewater having right to defend itself and targeting civilians are different

[twin dragon]

they killed one that went to make a deal w em

Yeah they do both kinda

[civic elm]

Wdym

[twin dragon]

yk you get a soul after groal

and groal can use soul spells

very crude ones but still spells

[whole holly]

i absolutely LOVE this theory

[twin dragon]

thats a shaman

[edgy nebula]

groal killed and tortured a snail shaman for soul after he went looking for a truce against the citadel

[civic elm]

Yes

[twin dragon]

theres a shaman corpse hanging

in the room

with the soul

[civic elm]

Oh you mean groal

The shaman that is there

[twin dragon]

yeah.

[civic elm]

I thought you ment the remaining ones

[twin dragon]

the whole convo was about that yeah

[whole holly]

i hate Groal, he is just dumber Soul Master

[edgy nebula]

smarter*

[twin dragon]

groal n soul master arent even comparable

its john evil and john greedy less evil

[civic elm]

What would you do if your entire kingdom is destroyed by the weavers

Bile water is a fallen kingdom

[twin dragon]

the conductors likely

[civic elm]

Just listen to the theme songs

[edgy nebula]

it wasnt destroyed by the weavers it was destroyed by the conductors

[twin dragon]

the weavers didnt need the underworks im pretty sure

[civic elm]

Why wouldnt they need the underworks

[edgy nebula]

pretty sure they had the underworks

[twin dragon]

why would they need the underworks

they exclusively needed pilgrims to sing

[civic elm]

Why did they bring slaves then

Hmm

[whole holly]

actually commit to truce with Shaman, ally with Old Hearts, rebels and actually not be dumb like Groal, it was destroyed by Citadel btw

[twin dragon]

fym

to sing???

[twin dragon]

-Become an old heart

[whole holly]

only an option if you are druid

[civic elm]

Wait but groal was in the silk of grand mother silk

[twin dragon]

nah fayforn n groal could maybe

groal got haunted hes a bum

[civic elm]

You can silk a song for the npcs he summons

[whole holly]

groal should have become Bile Druid and old heart after that

[civic elm]

Groal was under the effects of the silk

[edgy nebula]

the old hearts are stupid bums they shouldve all teamed up against gms and exiled her

[twin dragon]

gms is a dumbass bih we dont even know what she did prior the the citadel

[whole holly]

?? Shaman went to them who was killed, i am pretty sure Grand Mother Silk wouldn't urge them to kill Shaman

[civic elm]

Why?

[edgy nebula]

make chud daughters to sing chud songs so she can live her chud life

[whole holly]

wdym? Shamans blame Stilkin for it

[twin dragon]

Plus uhh

groal just sniffed that soul

[whole holly]

Grand Mother Chud

[twin dragon]

and his needolin dialogue talks about its power sooo

very safe to assume groal is a greedy bum

[civic elm]

Gms would be against a revolution that is just against the identity of the weavers

[edgy nebula]

groal probably wasnt haunted when the shaman went to make a truce

[twin dragon]

Yeah

his needolin dialogue reflects that

[edgy nebula]

id imagine it happened when bilewater was being destroyed but before gms became desperate to wake

[twin dragon]

I mean haunted bugs usually arent directly controlled, its more subtle

[civic elm]

Then why did he refuse

[twin dragon]

they keep their thoughts but are united with a thread to gms

[edgy nebula]

he’s wrathful and hungry for power

[civic elm]

Ok

[whole holly]

we need Frost Druid, Bile Druid, Wisp Druid, Sea Druid in next DLC

[civic elm]

And

[edgy nebula]

he either thought the shaman was gonna backstab him or just killed him to become stronger with the soul magic

[twin dragon]

pavo my goat giving us the haunting POV

[civic elm]

But considering he might have been the leader of bilewater he should not be able to control souls

[twin dragon]

im pretty sure

he just got cornered

and brute forced to death

[civic elm]

Ok i am wrong

He used the power of the stolen soul

Oh and he can also do the shooting attack of the shaman

But why did the shaman want to team up with groal?

[twin dragon]

gathering allies wtv

[edgy nebula]

to fight against the citadel

[twin dragon]

n to fight against higher forces

[civic elm]

Is there any reason the shamans where hiding the shells pre act 3

[paper mantle]

The plate in his hand probably has an influence

[paper mantle]

🤔
Probably

[whole holly]

i agree, probably some kind of influence

[foggy stratus]

I'd imagine they didnt want to draw attention to themselves.

[civic elm]

Ok, but why would the weavers/conductors/gms want them

If we ignore the caretaker of course

Also who saves hornet in the introductory cutscrne

[foggy stratus]

They have power. Power others would want. Just look at the Seeker.

[foggy stratus]

Random seal breaking bug I believe

[civic elm]

Ok

Then why did they show themself to groal

If they knew they had power that others would want

[foggy stratus]

Wanted an alliance.

[civic elm]

Like whom.

Seeing the thing that was send was made of silk

It only leaves a couple of suspectz

A random weaver that we dont know off, lace, phantom, and widow

But widow was controling the threads of gms

And phantom playing the big piano

[twin dragon]

lace

likely lace

so hornet doesnt reach gms

[civic elm]

Oh

And does phantom control the bugs in the mist, hoping for us to come free it out of its missery

[twin dragon]

these are different

and she wants the opposite

to ward off anyone coming near presumably because of their safety

and they're projections... that phantom somehow made

[civic elm]

So why do they tell us how to pass through the mist

Seeing as phantom's silk goes thin

[foggy stratus]

The Organ pumps out loads of LSD, that's why.

[civic elm]

Why do they show the passage toward phantom

[twin dragon]

the flies idfk

they kinda react

they dont really do anything other than guide

thats what theyre for

what im talking about is the wraiths

[civic elm]

The wraiths are just a product of silk

[twin dragon]

and weed

[civic elm]

The flies is just the same type that helps hornet escape

If lace helped her escape, then it is either lace wanting phantom to be freed of her missery or phantom herself

[twin dragon]

No they arent tied to lace

lace kinda guided them

to hornet's cage and somehow undid the seal

the flies themselves guide pilgrims

[civic elm]

Ok thx

[near jasper]

Fact: the indeterminate meat the couriers rasher is made from is lugoli's pickled Pilgrim

[lyric rose]

We need a Souped-up (oh dang I realized as I was typing that’s a pun) Lugoli fight called “Ass Jim” in godhome where he uses all sorts of culinary crimes besides muckmaggots

[near jasper]

Your cocoon should appear in picking jar if you lose to lugoli in act 3

[acoustic imp]

yes.

[lyric rose]

I can envision it… all the new ingredients he could be tossing about in the citadel

Voltvyrm Sashimi to electrify the floor

[acoustic imp]

courier's rasher: the sequel

[lyric rose]

Driznit Bugles that ricochet off walls

Tarmite Tenders leaving behind a damaging payload that explodes

He’d be a great taste of all your least favorite enemies in Pharloom!

And whichever one he throws is pure…

Potluck

[frank dove]

Guys so puny penitent is 90% envoy

They have the same song

Look the same

Only difference is I don't think envoys have wings

[elfin comet]

took me a bit to realize that you're talking about the enemies from the slab

[frank dove]

Yes

[elfin comet]

yah i think they all look the same because they all get the same cloak things

[frank dove]

I was wondering about it because the one random one with weaver effigy

Seemed weird it had a silk memory

"...Your light...
...Forgive my silence...
...Too weak... to return...
I failed you..."

It says forgive my silence

And um I have an obsession with slab lore tablets

[elfin comet]

prob reinforcing how the slab is fucked up

[frank dove]

Penitent, Second of the Fourth.
Guilty of the sin of dissonance.
Penance by silencing.
Absolution granted after death.

So I figured 'of the fourth' was envoys

[elfin comet]

bug was put in jail cuz he didnt glaze the weavers

[frank dove]

Another one says of the fourth

Penitent, Fourth of the Fourth.
Guilty of the sins of infirmity, sickness.
Penance by swallowing.
Absolution granted after death.

[frank dove]

He has weaver effigy tho which is strange

[elfin comet]

i think second of the fourth is like the second prisoner out of a group of 4 prisoners

[frank dove]

But talking about "Your light..." sounds like gms

[frank dove]

Ye a lot of people say that but

Both of them that say 'of the first' seem to be referring to weavers

Widow calls herself 'of the first... last'

So weavers = 1st

[elfin comet]

well, weavers were also imprisoned in the slab

or i think they were

[frank dove]

Yes, we have 2 things talking about 'of the first'

Lemme just pull them all up

Penitent, Eighth of the Twelfth.
Guilty of the sin of irreverence.
Penance by chaining.
Absolution granted after death.
Penitent, Second of the Fourth.
Guilty of the sin of dissonance.
Penance by silencing.
Absolution granted after death.

Penitent, Fourth of the Fourth.
Guilty of the sins of infirmity, sickness.
Penance by swallowing.
Absolution granted after death.
Penitent, Twelfth of the First.
Guilty of an unnamed sin.
Penance by casting.
Absolution not granted.

Penitent, First of the First.
Guilty of the sin of apostasy.
Penance by constriction.
Absolution denied.

[elfin comet]

hm yah

[near jasper]

Maybe the of the xth thing is just the floor theyre on and the cell number

First sinner is 1 1 because the slab was built around her jail seemingly

[frank dove]

So why is fs in the middle

[frank dove]

Where is 'of the -2nd'

People below?

[near jasper]

Eaten

[near jasper]

Also can I point out how fucked up the image for this memory is

[frank dove]

Wait nvm fs is on bottom

BUT that theory has to be wrong

[elfin comet]

i mean

[frank dove]

Because slab does not have 12 floors

[elfin comet]

do we see the entirety of the slab in the game? because if so it's pretty small

[frank dove]

9.5 or something if you are an optimist

[frank dove]

Check mapgenie

We see the roof

[elfin comet]

oh yeah dat true

[near jasper]

What could you have possibly done to deserve this

[frank dove]

Lwky we need something like hallownest.net for silksong, mapgenie only goes so far

[elfin comet]

looked at me wrong

[frank dove]

But supposedly hallownest.net took like ages to make

[near jasper]

Pharloom.net is fully complete outside figuring out where to put the mist rooms (trust)

[elfin comet]

i think "(blank) of the (blank)" is most likely something used to specify individual bugs in a group

[frank dove]

Hm choir flyer has the same song

[frank dove]

Everyone says that

[elfin comet]

and whatever they use to seperate different groups of bugs has 12 different types of bugs

[frank dove]

It's not that hard

[elfin comet]

i mean, it makes the most sense. "4th of the 4th" is the 4th member of some group

[frank dove]

Conductor is 2nd prob

[elfin comet]

why would the conductors be in the slab?

[frank dove]

Who said they actually were

[near jasper]

Tax evasion

[frank dove]

We see nothing saying they are

[elfin comet]

why would they be a category in the slab if they were never imprisoned

they literally run the citadel

actually, why would conductors be the 2nd?

[near jasper]

Do you think there were multiple architects operational at the same time in the citadel

[elfin comet]

yyes

the architects were made by the citadel to fix the machinery in the citadel i think

[near jasper]

Theres 12 architect shells in the architect crest room

[frank dove]

Because they ruled citadel, appointed by weavers

[elfin comet]

oh so its like the order of importance

[frank dove]

Things are numbered for a reason in this game

[near jasper]

It would be cool if hornet got added to one of those lore tablets if she got imprisoned

[frank dove]

WAIT WHAT IF SHE IS

12TH OF THE FIRST

[elfin comet]

but she's a weaver so wouldn't she be important

[frank dove]

And now we're back to 'wtf does casting mean'

[lyric rose]

Penitent, Sh of the Aw
Guilty of of the Sin of Rebellion
Penance by Disarming
Absolution yet to be Granted

[elfin comet]

thats a good question was does casting mean

[frank dove]

Some theorize that is widow they are talking about

And they 'cast' metal rods into her back

Some theorize widow was 'staked to service' in city of steel

There is evidence against that one

[near jasper]

It makes sense judges dont attack haunted enemies as most crimes in the citadel seem to absolution'd on death

[frank dove]

Nobody knows, slab are cradle lore tablets are the biggest source of confusion about the games lore

[lyric rose]

Besides the ending

[frank dove]

Was it you I talking to about the difference between 'absolution denied' and 'absolution not granted'

Or was that someone else

[near jasper]

No

[frank dove]

It's interesting that there is a difference

Both of the 'of the first' criminals have different ways of saying they get no absolution

[elfin comet]

wait but dont they only get absolution'd if the weavers absolution them

[frank dove]

Makes me wonder if it was a mistake or big lore implication

[elfin comet]

or the slab

[frank dove]

Not sure, but we should note people's souls can be put into silkflies

[elfin comet]

absolution denied=asked for absolution and was told no
absolution not granted=didnt ask for absolution and didnt get it anyways

[frank dove]

That makes sense, I'm couldn't think of any difference XD

[elfin comet]

wait is absolution being turned into silkflies or being absolved of sins or whatever

[frank dove]

It means being absolved of sins, but I am saying maybe they are absolved by becoming silkflies

It is especially important to note that the device that turns into silkflies is a weaver device

Which means it was built before conductors

[elfin comet]

were the conductors like replacements for the weavers or just people who heped manage the citadel

[near jasper]

How does first sinner trap us inside a memory

Also how is it a memory if its meant to be happening now

What is this a memory of

[elfin comet]

i think the weavers were “cursed to half life”, which is why we can bind to them

wait no we can bind to desd bugs too

[near jasper]

Was there just a suspiciously burial spire designed prison cell she beat people up in

How does the binding system actually work

What causes a memory sequence when you bind someone

[elfin comet]

i assume the memory sequence is like the weavers reaching out to you

[near jasper]

Team cherry deciding to cut Memories from binding crests entirely for ghits and siggles

[elfin comet]

did they do tha?

[near jasper]

Probably

[elfin comet]

last time i played the animations were there

[near jasper]

Theres a cut shaman crest memory sequence

So probably for the other crests too

[near jasper]

What

[elfin comet]

oh isee

i thoight you meant when binding the weavers

[near jasper]

Ngl

The weaver queen ending could use a memory sequence when we bind gms

Because I know not a single one of you understood what happened in it your first time getting it

[elfin comet]

I mean i dont think your supposed to know everything thats happening when playing a game

some parts have to be discovered later, the game wont just tell you everything to your face.

[near jasper]

I feel like the explanation for what happens in weaver queen being an assumption from a couple pieces of dialogue from a minor character is a bit too difficult too understand

[elfin comet]

The weaver queen endng is not based off of an assumption

there is dialouge with eva stating what a crest is, i believe hornet compared a crest to someone’s personality, thoughts, etc. hornet basically combines herself with the person she binds

so when she binds to gms, she’s basically overpowered by her and turns into a new gms: the weaver queen

[near jasper]

Thats an assumption of what happens after we bind gms

[elfin comet]

well yah

some things in a game’s lore can just be assumed

because all the evidence points to that happening

so really yes rhe weaver queen ending is based off of an assumption

but that assumption is backed up by like every piece of dialouge talking about crests

[near jasper]

damn the page for crests on the wiki has like 0 lore info 😭

[elfin comet]

SON

check eva’s dialouge

Like the first conversation hornet has with her explains what crests are

[lyric rose]

If lace has a crest, I think it would be the witch crest, based on how her slashes look

[elfin comet]

But witch crest is the grey root

[lyric rose]

Yeah true

But it’s the crest that most closely matches her slashes

[elfin comet]

Well i mean canonically she has her own crest

[runic plume]

what endingds happier the lost lace one or weaver queen

[lyric rose]

Lost lace because uh hornet doesn’t become Stalin

[elfin comet]

Chocolate cake or instant atomization ahh 😭

[runic plume]

i see

[runic plume]

i mean weaver queen dosnt seem that bad

[elfin comet]

speaking of endings what even happens in the greyroot ending

[lyric rose]

Chocolate cake but half of the country is dead

[runic plume]

the bud

like takes control

[lyric rose]

Everyone freaking dies

[elfin comet]

we dont change antthing in weaver queen, we just replace gms

[runic plume]

oh

thats useless

[lyric rose]

We make the haunting worse

Silk’s cocoon was restricted to one room in the cradle

Hornet’s cocoon…

[runic plume]

can u play silkosng after u do wevaer queen

or jo

[elfin comet]

oh yeah because the whole citadel was encased in silk

[lyric rose]

SURROUNDS THE TOP OF THE CITADEL

The silk is using wallhack!

[elfin comet]

yes

[foggy fractal]

well yeah but you just get send back to right before you do the fight at whatever bench you last rested at I think?

[elfin comet]

Theres no ending that locks you out of your save.

[runic plume]

oh bet

[lyric rose]

Well…

[runic plume]

the twisted one

does

right

[elfin comet]

Which is the twisted one

greyroot ending?

[runic plume]

the one u use ur bud

yea

[lyric rose]

If you’re stubborn enough

[lyric rose]

Nope!

[runic plume]

og

[elfin comet]

you can get locked out of greyroot

[lyric rose]

You just get locked out of the ending when you extract the parasite

The ending doesn’t lock your save out

[elfin comet]

What does the greyroot even do in greyroot, like i get the general idea but why

[lyric rose]

Uhhh becomes god?

That’s all I can gather

[elfin comet]

why does it wait until hornet binds to gms to go crazy,

[runic plume]

what happens if u talk to greyroot with witch crest

[lyric rose]

So it can eat 2 cakes at once

Hornet’s cake and Silk’s cake

[elfin comet]

ohh so when hornet binds to gms the grey root is also gaining thepower of gms

[lyric rose]

Yeah.

[elfin comet]

i dont think i want to eat their cake

[lyric rose]

not Hornet. Silk tho…

[elfin comet]

👅

anyways would greyroot be considered a good ending though

[lyric rose]

Silk’s kinda T H I C C

[lyric rose]

NO

[runic plume]

what does greyroot say if u talk to him with the witch crest on

[elfin comet]

does the greyroot go like everywhere

[lyric rose]

It’s like the objectively worst ending maybe excluding ending flat out at snared silk

[lyric rose]

Go find out

[elfin comet]

Not there after you gige them bud

[lyric rose]

HAH! You can’t! He’s a bunch of branches!

He turns into a big bunch of weird branches!

[runic plume]

oh

[elfin comet]

nah but like

[runic plume]

so what happens to him

is the bud

[lyric rose]

He pulls an Isma and goes “Tree Powers Activate”

[elfin comet]

at most it destroys the citadel right

[lyric rose]

If it’s the “rite of rebirth”, perhaps this is a Grimm-like reincarnation

Hence why Greyroot sort of injects us with the parasite like that. They might not just be injecting the bud, but their own essence as well

[elfin comet]

so at best it destroys the citadel and stops all the shi it does to surrounding environments, at worst it kills gms and stops the haunting

best/worst in terms of growth

[lyric rose]

Bad news, whatever hatches at the end is probably a horrific abomination

[runic plume]

hornet has to much random shit in her soul

[elfin comet]

wait does something hatch from the greyroot? I forgot the details of greyroot ending cutscebe

i just remember the all got turned into greyroot

[lyric rose]

I think we hear something cracking

And given that this is the “right of rebirth” and the cursed crest is sort of analogous to a pregnancy…

You can do the math

[runic plume]

will silksong get a godhome dlc

[lyric rose]

Namely the multiplication

[elfin comet]

yah probably

[runic plume]

shits gona be peak

[lyric rose]

The end of the dlc

[elfin comet]

if not you’d have to replay like the whole game to that point to fight them

[runic plume]

they gona make a hard ah bos tho

yea

[lyric rose]

70 bosses all wanting to kick your nonexistent weaver balls

[elfin comet]

imagine the abs rad equivilant is what hatches from the greyroot egg or something

[runic plume]

absoltue lost lace

acc nah that osnt lore acc

[lyric rose]

No…

You beat lost lace

Then you get hit with the “dive” prompt

And you descend

[elfin comet]

and instead if fighting it by doing p5 you need to beat sk’s equivilant of p5 with the parasite

[lyric rose]

Deeper and deeper into the void sea

[runic plume]

yea ik

hmm

[lyric rose]

Until…

You meet it.

[near jasper]

They should put plasmified zango after the last bench so you cant afford to lose tools on him in pantheon 5

[lyric rose]

A broken shell reforms and into it a shade goes… THE KNIGHT

[runic plume]

https://tenor.com/view/hollow-knight-silksong-dance-hornet-the-knight-hollow-knight-gif-15874143608014627218

[elfin comet]

No shell just the shade

[lyric rose]

Then phase 2: VOID GIVEN FORM (basically phase 1 knight with void tendril attacks)

[runic plume]

lol

[lyric rose]

Then THE SHADE LORD

[elfin comet]

oh in pantheon

[lyric rose]

Or we start at Void Given Form

[elfin comet]

i thought you meant lost lace ending

[lyric rose]

I mean pantheon

[elfin comet]

i dont think hornet is beating voi given form

[near jasper]

Hornet accidentally ending all of pharloom after a friendly fight with her sibling

[lyric rose]

It’d be like the ultimate boss

[elfin comet]

honestly i dont think she’s beating the base knight but liikkkee

[lyric rose]

I don’t know what else a true godhome final boss could be

[near jasper]

They should make an eternal ordeal style place in the silksong hall of gods where you can fight every gauntlet in a row

[runic plume]

everything does. 2 hearts

[lyric rose]

Especially since the knight became the god of gods at the end of Godmaster

[elfin comet]

would be cool to fight the nosk that kills the silkeater maker i forgot the name of

[near jasper]

Styx

[plain ruin]

Skynx

[elfin comet]

Yah

[lyric rose]

Skyx
Stinks

[elfin comet]

imagine silksng’s godhome is in sea of sorrow and at the end we fight the lifeblood creature

[near jasper]

https://tenor.com/view/styx-silksong-bug-styx-love-silksong-styx-gif-5523667019778148263

[runic plume]

https://tenor.com/view/silksong-hollow-knight-hornet-garama-tegale-gif-9415107027670413054

[near jasper]

Needle phial only pantheon 5 for the 20% damage bonus on lifeblood creature

[runic plume]

while cursed

[lyric rose]

but with beast pogo

[near jasper]

Do you think youll be able to get plasmified and cursed at the same time in sea of sorrow

[runic plume]

and level 1 needle

[elfin comet]

and then they have liferoot ending if you beat lifeblood creature with greyroot

and then they make another dlc where you are lifeblood creature and fight greyeoot trut im genius

[runic plume]

bring garmond back plz team cherry

[elfin comet]

sea of sorrow actually just adds an area thats infinite water

just a flat plain of water that goes on forever

[lyric rose]

Some sort of “infinite bay”

[elfin comet]

And the whole dlc is actually just a fishing “minigame” where you go to the edge of the water and select the fish prompt which gives you a fish

no animation or anything you just get a fis

[lyric rose]

https://tenor.com/view/fish-gas-station-you-know-what-that-means-gif-1113666392679473186

[toxic mulch]

I didn't notice this before but the mask description says it's made from pale ore,do y'all think that's in any way connected to the pale ore in hallownest?

[limpid summit]

Pale ore has some unspecified connection to pale beings

While we thought this was just PK and WL now that pale being is a real thing we can extend that to GMS too

So who knows

[toxic mulch]

Ah,do we know that gms is a pale being and not just a higher being?

[craggy smelt]

yeah, she's referred to as such multiple times

[plain ruin]

She’s called a pale being many times yeah

[craggy smelt]

'pale monarch', Hornet calls her as such, etc.

[plain ruin]

Snail Shamans and Mask Maker come to mind

[craggy smelt]

so many times

[plain ruin]

Also the Clover Dancers intro

[craggy smelt]

over and over she's called one

[elfin comet]

pale ore is actually just a pale being’s shit but they dont want you to know that

[craggy smelt]

'unspecified connection' 👀

[elfin comet]

if you go to the king’s palace and break the wall at a random point in path of pain you fight the real pale king and after beating the pale king you can dream nail him leading you to an even harder path of pain which, at the end, has a lore tablet that says “pale ore is my shit lmao”

proof: i said it

[toxic mulch]

Well if you say so it must be true

[elfin comet]

im so smart im my own source

[toxic mulch]

Real

[stray fog]

So is pale oil his...

[void patrol]

Piss, if we go by that logic

[ruby mica]

no spoilers i heard this game is kinda about motherhood is that true?

[jagged sun]

It is an underlying theme literally from the first boss to the last, as well as the rest of the game too.

[ruby mica]

actually really cool

only other game i know that has those implication was elden ring dlc

[void patrol]

Yes

[void patrol]

Hollow Knight and Silksong have more trauma then you expect from game about bugs

[gentle tartan]

what does one expect from a game about bugs

[void patrol]

Nothing

[tight oracle]

Bugs probably

[frank dove]

Another thought

We never see anything above 12th in any numbering system in the game

12th architecht is the last, on either part of slab lore tablets highest is 12th

Probably bc 12 notes in an octave

Note that this would kind of put some evidence into widow being '12th of the first' too, considering she says she is 'last of the first' and 12th = last

[foggy stratus]

Hear me out: Third upgrade to Hunter Crest where it becomes the Weaver Crest in Sea of Sorrow.

[frank dove]

But we can already bind eva

[foggy stratus]

We get it from someone else in Sea of Sorrow. Like a dead Weaver corpse.

[frank dove]

Could be

[foggy stratus]

I'm thinking it'd mostly get a buff to the focus mechanic and a few more tool slots.

[frank dove]

Kind of unrelated but what's the deal with the living weaver in hk

They look very different from what weavers now look like

Bc design changed a lot between games

[whole holly]

There is a 1 in 260 chance that Sea of sorrow releases today!

[stark sorrel]

Team cherry said they will give us more details shortly before the dlc

[whole holly]

i guess only 260 more days to wait

[keen vector]

guys is ellina the chronicler canon

[limpid summit]

Yes

[spark valve]

(probably)

[limpid summit]

It sealed siblings is canon Ellina is canon

[whole holly]

guys is Twisted Child canon? will HK3 take place after Twisted Child?

[twin dragon]

hollow knight: Bastard

[whole holly]

Twisted Child is like Sealed Siblings, it will never be addressed again, it is meant to be collectively forgotten

[twin dragon]

compared to siblings twisted child is an interesting what if ending

and this shall be etv too

[whole holly]

i would love to see Pale Parasite from Team Cherry official artwork

[frank dove]

Team cherry confirmed silksong is a prequel and parasite is wl

[whole holly]

[frank dove]

Yes hornet in hk is a fake

[whole holly]

is there fanart of Twisted Child?

[frank dove]

Sealed siblings has to be canon for the multiverse to be in balance

[low oracle]

Timelines ≠ multiverse

[stark sorrel]

Not fun fact: it’s been 30-31 days without sea of sorrow news

[near jasper]

The non silksong leading endings in HK are in a weird grey(root) Area of canon in "alternate timeline we dont play in during silksong" or "its not canon but if it was what happened it would be this that we see"

[low oracle]

What?

[stark sorrel]

Why is Lost Lace saved but Lost Garmond isn’t?

[low oracle]

Do you know what a timeline is?

[low oracle]

Because Lace is made of endurable and replenishable silk while Garmond isn't.

[near jasper]

The void already ate all garmonds organs when we get there

[stark sorrel]

No lost Garmond just looks more grey while lost lace is completely devoured by void

[low oracle]

Regarding the Greyroot and White Lady question, I'd say they are very different, pure opposites even. The only actal argument of sorts I have heard is that their eyes match and that they both somewhat relate to plants.

[near jasper]

Lost lace only has void on her, garmond has void in him

[low oracle]

That's just how they look, apart from the colours not meaning anything to the argument.

[low oracle]

This can be explained too:
Silk is Soul, void eats soul. Usually, Soul is inside of a bug, making them alive. However Lace is completely made of Soul, hence the void can't enter her innards directly (not that she has them) and has to go through the outer layers first.

[near jasper]

Yeah and gms is keeping lace Alive so those outer layers are probably being replenished

[low oracle]

That too.

How often do you think we could cut parts off of Lace before she actually dies?

Are the legs important, or does only the head matter?

[near jasper]

I think until we reach the inner black dense silk layers we can keep peeling her

[low oracle]

Couldn't the legs live by themselves since there are no organs that are required.

[near jasper]

Limbs probably arent necessary too

[stark sorrel]

Alright I’m just gonna accept the fact that team cherry killed my favorite character

[near jasper]

Garmond will get a grave in the pilgrim graveyard in bone bottom in act 4

[low oracle]

But the black layer just means it's more dense. So GMS could easily make her completely black by giving her more silk.

[low oracle]

No, that place is the only way to farm pilgrims for some of the journal entries. It's better to put him in the graveyard of Bellhart, that's a nice place.

[near jasper]

Bellhart graveyard?

Like the one the pin man goes to in act 3

[low oracle]

Yeah

[frank dove]

So it could be sad when garmond died and happy when lace didn't

Even though garmond is a better character

[frank dove]

True true

[whole holly]

i just wish we saw aftermath of twisted child ending

will Citadel be parasited on? will haunting continue? is pharloom saved?

[whole holly]

it is unreasonably vague

suggesting that any of these are obvious is weird because we don't see end result of the creature than absorbed two pale beings

[limpid summit]

I want to say

1. Wdym
2. No
3. No

Greyroots rite of rebirth only victimized regular bugs now it draws in a demi HB and full HB

Whatever comes out is going to be much more active

[whole holly]

that's what i meant by "will citadel be parasited on?" as in become new host, also "suggesting that any of these are obvious is weird because we don't see end result of the creature than absorbed two pale beings" we can't be sure

we don't see parasite after twisted child

[fathom parrot]

Is GMS evil or is it just the silk acting?

[plain ruin]

She’s evil

[limpid summit]

Yeah it’s just my own guess

[plain ruin]

Don’t know exactly how evil she was originally, but she’s certainly quite evil during the Haunting

[limpid summit]

I don’t think the parasite will be benevolent

GMS probably wasnt a heartless villain but regardless of whether she recognized what she was doing to the Weavers she did attempt to impose her will on the surrounding tribes

Khann, Karmelita both fought her

[plain ruin]

If she’s not a heartless villain why isn’t she an Old Heart

[whole holly]

ofc not

i believe it is in nature of greyroot, i believe Grand Mother Silk's and Hornet's Crest will entirely suppressed, and only contribute parasites strength and growth, as for whether or not it will be pale being is unlikely and up to speculation

[limpid summit]

Yeah ofc

I don’t think it’ll adopt their qualities

[twin dragon]

she's imposes her own vision of what she deems good over others without caring what they do and how they feel

[limpid summit]

I just think it’ll be very strong

[twin dragon]

because she thinks she knows best

[plain ruin]

I think it’s more about worship than anything

Pale Beings thrive on devotion

[twin dragon]

I mean she likely had the whole pharloom before

though she specifically wanted daughters

this is why old pharloom dlc is absolutely necessary vouch for this

[whole holly]

she was willing to do everything to have perfect daughter, basically enslaving and neglecting weavers and phantom, mistreating lace, capturing escaped weavers just to punish them and capturing hornet, Lace's sadness makes it all worse

[twin dragon]

I dont think gms had like the most evil of intentions when we're speaking about her own perspectives

she does what she thinks is right

[plain ruin]

She wasn’t pure evil of course, she sacrificed herself to save Lace after all

[fathom parrot]

But we dont know if there was a reason worth it or not

[twin dragon]

Because she saw lace as her little "perfect" daughter

or as an extension of her

[plain ruin]

Her own perspective is about waking up and receiving complete devotion from all of Pharloom

[limpid summit]

I don’t think she even knew Phantom was born honestly

[whole holly]

she doesn't seem to care what is right, it seems

[whole holly]

that's a lame excuse, doesn't help at all

[limpid summit]

She doesn’t mention Phantom, not in the context of her being a disloyal child but her Lace silk heart dialogue is as if Lace is the first of her kind

What

[plain ruin]

You think she created Phantom without realizing?

[limpid summit]

It’s not an excuse

I think she sucks

[limpid summit]

Genuinely yes

I think Phantom was created inadvertently during her deep sleep

[twin dragon]

when creating her daughters i mean

[limpid summit]

While Lace was created knowingly as she stirred post Whiteward

[whole holly]

i mean Lace knew of her existence

[plain ruin]

I think it’s more likely that she just stopped viewing Phantom as her child

[whole holly]

just to recap, who are known Higher Beings and who are speculated ones?

[plain ruin]

Phantom started to fray, Phantom started to show imperfections, GMS didn’t like that

[low oracle]

Wait a sec

[whole holly]

she frayed from neglect

[plain ruin]

Pale Higher: White Lady, Pale King, GMS
Higher: Unn, NKG, Radiance, Lord of Shades

[limpid summit]

Yeah lace could get up and walk around

[plain ruin]

I think that’s all?

[limpid summit]

Lord of Shades

As well

[plain ruin]

Ah right yeah

[whole holly]

well, yea and Lord of Shades as well

[twin dragon]

they can be both a pale being AND a higher being btw

hornet is a pale one but isnt a hb

its a separate status

[plain ruin]

Yeah, I’m just specifying that they are Pale Higher Beings

[whole holly]

i love that name TC game Knight name of God of Gods/Lord of Shades but fandom just chose to ignore it

[twin dragon]

or void given form

[whole holly]

who are speculated ones? i think Gods of Rain and Gods of Thunder

[plain ruin]

Lifeblood creature as well

Down in the abyss

[whole holly]

that's Specific to ending though, VGForm, VGFocus are ending specific

[plain ruin]

Mister Mushroom could also be higher

[whole holly]

yeah, i have to agree, Lifeblood Heart is depicted in Glyph near radiance statue

[whole holly]

true

[whole holly]

Unn, Radiance, White Lady, Pale King, are depicted in Glyphs are well, possibly

[plain ruin]

Technically Weaver Queen Hornet

[limpid summit]

GoTaR, MM, LBB, Weaver Queen and I guess Greyroot are speculated to a degree

[whole holly]

yeah, that's confirmed in all but name

[twin dragon]

I mean that's what the commonly called shade lord actually is

because the lord of shades is voidheart ik im pretty sure

[limpid summit]

But like who’s trying to dispute Weaver Queen

[whole holly]

i disagree on Greyroot

[whole holly]

that's ridiculous

[plain ruin]

Moss Mother is a Higher Being, I knew it

Oh wait, the Steel Masters have potential too

[limpid summit]

I don’t think she is either

But I think she’s probably a Root

[whole holly]

we don't see them

[plain ruin]

We know little about them but we will likely know more about them in the future

[whole holly]

you think?

[limpid summit]

Yeah we aren’t given any indication that Root is a species

It’s just a title like Wyrm

[whole holly]

yeah, they will probably be powerful

[limpid summit]

But GR is powerful in her own way

[whole holly]

wyrm isn't a title, it is a species

[whole holly]

she is a witch

[plain ruin]

Bardoon describes Wyrms as a species yeah

[twin dragon]

gray gms hornet baby is a hb

[plain ruin]

They all have foresight

And they’re all massive

[low oracle]

1:
-Pale King
-White lady
-NKG
-GMS
-Unn
-Shade Lord (NOT Lord of Shades (Dream No More) or the regular Knight)
-Radiance
-God of Thunder
-God of Thunder
-Weaver Queen
2:
-Twisted Child
-Mr. Mushroom
-Fayhorn
-Nyleth
-Whatever is behind Lifeblood
-Steel Masters
-Any type of Wyrm
-Possible Coral entity (all Karak are made of Coral, regardless of the current leader)

What is NOT a Higher Being:
-Any of the base vessels or Hornet
-Greyroot

[twin dragon]

Nyleth CANT be at all

old hearts described as nyleth

oh

what am i writing

described as mortals mb

[plain ruin]

Nyleth is just powerful yeah

[limpid summit]

Oh yeah forgot steel masters

Fayforn I would doubt

Probably an old heart maybe

[low oracle]

That is why she is speculative. She still shows VERY deffinite signs of a Higher Being, those being a land which she (it?) is the creator of, creatures in her image and the ability to ensnare regular bugs (Seth).

[whole holly]

thanks, what about Palestag and Father of the Flame, what category do they fall into? probably non-higher beings

[twin dragon]

She is an old heart though

and this status clears any hb allegations im sure

[limpid summit]

Palestag no

Father of the Flame is an effigy of the actual god the Burning Bugs worship

Who knows what that is

Maybe NMH

I don’t think we have enough k say

[low oracle]

Father of the Flame is an idol of hope for the hopeless, inside there is even a regular bug. Likely the father of the cult.
The Pale Stag probably isn't even pale but just kinda that colour without the implications of a close relation with soul.

[whole holly]

not exactly, it is true old hearts are mortals but nyleth is seemingly exception since she is ancient seed, also Higher Beings may not be inherently immortal

[low oracle]

I don't think so, I remember it being a "false god".

[plain ruin]

Also NKG should be changed to Nightmare Heart specifically, NKG is just the vessel of it

[whole holly]

how is Seth ensnared by Nyleth? pollen infection we don't know about? he was described as empowered by "voice"

[limpid summit]

I saw someones theory that it was the cloak of leaves that put some spell on him

[plain ruin]

I think that the cloak absolutely has something to do with it yeah

[low oracle]

Remember what I said about Karak, where the leader can die and the coral still remains strong? Karaka and Nyleth could both be the creations of Higher Beings that have Greater Beings (lesser Higher Beings, I made that term up btw) keep their creations in check.

[plain ruin]

Like a charm

[limpid summit]

Ehhhh