sk-lore

[whole holly]

i made a theory about it : https://docs.google.com/document/d/14_zdtxC4sjIhQ9fUa1eh3V5bqD0wyqWOrcZqr5ptKK4/edit?usp=sharing

[stray fog]

We don't know if thosr rocks have anything to do with the fayforn though

It might just be a feature of the region

[frank dove]

I'll have to check it out sometime but I gtg rn

[whole holly]

well, yeah i don't think that's mutually exclusive with coldshard traits

[frank dove]

Mask maker also says fayforn is specifically opposed to gms

As a last little detail

[whole holly]

that is fair observation

[foggy stratus]

Yeah and so was Khann.

[whole holly]

so was everybody with a brain

[dapper willow]

feyforn seems to be just some insightful being with power
but not enough to be a higher being

someone like nyleth and karmeliat and khan

[whole holly]

i agree, we don't have enough information

[stray fog]

This is one of the topics Im still on the fence about

[foggy stratus]

Fayforn Old Heart theory my ride or die.

[stray fog]

I can't choose a side

[stray fog]

Those shamans had a really shitty detector
They missed almost half the old hearts

[whole holly]

me neither, like she is as intriguing as nyleth for me

[near jasper]

What do yall think mr mushroom's dialogue means for each location

[stray fog]

Random bullshit 🗣️ 🔥

[foggy stratus]

FayForn has just withered and atrophied so much that they couldn't get detected.

[whole holly]

they can't feel moss new heart forming, why would they know fell heart of frost

[whole holly]

i comment on that with my Frozen Memory theory too

[stray fog]

Mt fay is pretty far from moss grotto
That could be another reason

[stray fog]

Ill read it after this conversation

[foggy stratus]

Or maybe it's like WL resisting attunement from Godseekers a little.

[dapper willow]

well at least that means that pharloom is less doomed

[whole holly]

i think that coldshard somehow interferes with it, we can't use needolin on mnemonords to find their dialogue so shamans could simply be facing difficulties using their spells maybe

[whole holly]

i agree with that mostly

[dapper willow]

also something that I realized today

Phar-loom
Phar-lid

[twin dragon]

The fayforn didnt create shit

its likely a strong mortal that will get the heart once the time comes

[whole holly]

what about all her children?

[stray fog]

[twin dragon]

Oh wow.. they're children

she didnt create the ecosystem doe

[stray fog]

Yep

[whole holly]

wdym?

[twin dragon]

mfs will see a thing thats slightly big and say

its a hb its a hb!!

[foggy stratus]

Godseeker mentality.

[near jasper]

Godseeker behavior

[whole holly]

Unn is not making it easy for us

[twin dragon]

deadass

[stray fog]

Why we hating

[twin dragon]

Because you're pointing at smt and making a serious claim without evidence

[whole holly]

with her having confirmed status

[twin dragon]

She did get a spot in the hbhome in godhome

[stray fog]

Was unn confirmed

[foggy stratus]

Yeah.

[whole holly]

is that a reason to hate? it's just specluation

[near jasper]

Yeah

[twin dragon]

and create the entirety of greenpath in her dreams

[whole holly]

she is confirmed in everything but name

[twin dragon]

While fayforn had kids

[stray fog]

Wait are you nika

[twin dragon]

yeah

[whole holly]

so did WL and PK

[whole holly]

yea

[twin dragon]

Those kids actually had magic powers n were shown to have magic influences over stuff

fayforn has regular ol kids

and doesnt have any ability that we know of

[whole holly]

did she tell you that?

[whole holly]

exactly, we can't discount all speculation just yet

[stray fog]

She grants gifts

[twin dragon]

insight

chat is knowing = hb

[twin dragon]

Then don't say she's a hb

[foggy stratus]

Said kids don't do jack shit besides have low as hell hp.

[twin dragon]

she would've had a bigger presence honestly

if she was

[near jasper]

Michael is a higher being

[whole holly]

we are speculating

[twin dragon]

Well she's likely not

[whole holly]

wait for them to grow, they have sick ass needolin dialogue

[blissful harbor]

she not cause she’s an old heart

[whole holly]

that's fair opinion

[twin dragon]

what they gonna do

[twin dragon]

she will likely be

when the time comes

[whole holly]

grant insight

[stray fog]

Thats what Im leaning towards rn

[foggy stratus]

Fayforn Old Heart theory my ride or die.

[twin dragon]

i will grant you the insight of not claiming shit like this without evidence

[near jasper]

Meet potential higher being:
0 feats
0 dialogue
7 vague lines from random people talking about some insight shit

[whole holly]

we aren't claiming, we are speculating? we are weighting our options

[twin dragon]

potential hb Points at literally every heart holder

Potential hb Points at the dead beast in queen's gardens

Potential hb Points at the lord of fools

Potential hb Points at the mask maker

[stray fog]

Can you blame them
Just look at lord fool's drip

[twin dragon]

Potential hb Points at grand mother silk oh wait

[whole holly]

said beast has no relevance in story, neither does lord fool, so it doesn't make narrative sense for them to have speculation of being a HB

[twin dragon]

Neither does fayforn

actually

[whole holly]

i disagree

[twin dragon]

Said "insight" is extremely vague and never elaborated upon

never mentioned literally anywhere

[near jasper]

You dont even meet them if you're only getting the normal ending right?

[whole holly]

so?

[twin dragon]

How is she relevant

[twin dragon]

You can

its optional

but not required

[foggy stratus]

Really?

[twin dragon]

yeah

[whole holly]

She is presented as such with how weavers and mister mushroom treat her

[twin dragon]

Well she's not...

Potential hb Points at moss druid

[stray fog]

Tbh mr mushroom talks to hornet as well

Him taking to someone isn't a very strong point

[near jasper]

"...Do they realise it would only be the beginning? If they cleave themselves free, they would need to find their way anew..." Was actually talking about the people waiting for silksong that are now waiting for zotevoat

[twin dragon]

And weavers seeked her out for knowledge... which like.. learning stuff is now hb exclusive?

[whole holly]

Hornet is child of higher being

[whole holly]

Disingenuous of you

[twin dragon]

That really doesnt mean anything trust me

Khann is also talked to in reverence

does that mean that khann is a hb

and he's actually relevant to the story yk

[stray fog]

Still, not a strong point
Im trying to say that the fayforn = hb side doesn't have very strong points. Only multiple small poibts. She could be one day revealed to be a higher being, but for now, I wouldn't call her one

I consider her an old heart

[twin dragon]

Same

or, yk, a candidate

[stray fog]

Exactly

Like it wouldn't contradict any lore if she suddenly became a higher being

[whole holly]

Isn’t it what I was saying this whole time?

[stray fog]

But for now she isnt

[whole holly]

My point exactly

[twin dragon]

An old heart holder isnt a hb..

[whole holly]

I am saying she is candidate for higher being status

[twin dragon]

It would result being weird if she's actually a hb because she has like.. zero influence over anything

[stray fog]

Then we agree

Only a candidate

[twin dragon]

I'd vouch more

for old heart

she's a very distant candidate to being a hb because there's nothing pointing at the fact

[stray fog]

I feel like the default approach should be "not a higher being, until shown to be one"

[twin dragon]

She's as probable to being a hb as mask maker

[dapper willow]

sea of sorrows speculation anyone

[twin dragon]

everyone dies

[stray fog]

Lifeblood

(extremely hot take, I know)

[whole holly]

i want one too, but everyone has boring/borderline confirmed take

no one is willing to take risk to actually speculate

[foggy stratus]

Pinstress Crest, trust.

[dapper willow]

I had a new tool idea in mind
Some form of anchor that you can hold the activation ability down to spin around hornet
And it launches if you let it go

[whole holly]

i ask for predictions and it is most predictable thing ever

[twin dragon]

The sea is actually not water

but we js explore the wastes

[whole holly]

interesting

[whole holly]

Sandsea Wastes?..

[stray fog]

We see water in the trailer though

[twin dragon]

i do NOT care it will dry out by the time it comes out

[whole holly]

i was thinking he would say it is full of lifeblood

[stray fog]

It took so long to release that it dried out 🔥

[dapper willow]

maybe team cherry will add underwater swimming?
Potentially new depths for all the water areas in the base game?

[stray fog]

That would be cool actually

A lifeblood sea

[whole holly]

they are making up for sands of karak being dry

[dapper willow]

i hope the place has some haunting musicc taht shakes my core

like blasted steps

the music alone makes me want to explore a whole desert kingdom if it existed

[stray fog]

Black barrens maybe

Because its barren

[dapper willow]

more druid lore maybe??

[whole holly]

i wish we get to see forgehome

[dapper willow]

i feel like the druids are so unexplored

[whole holly]

i hope for that too

[grave stream]

hornet isnt void right?

[stray fog]

Wouldnt fit sea of sorrows though

[near jasper]

No

[grave stream]

no she is or no she isnt

[stray fog]

She isnt

[whole holly]

agree, but eventually

[grave stream]

ok

[dapper willow]

in this day and age 2026 this is still a question??

[grave stream]

i forgot

[dapper willow]

true

[near jasper]

Theyre buffing the plasmium phial to only need 4 uses to plasmify you in sea of sorrow

Trust

[dapper willow]

you just need ot sell them more drugs

[stray fog]

My prediction is that the bay would be a surface/wastes location

[stray fog]

Lace we need to cook

[dapper willow]

it would be cool if the sea goes up to the surface

A rare right side pharloom exit?

[stray fog]

It does have lightning afterall

[dapper willow]

just one more huff of mossberries and you will get superpowers
trust

[stray fog]

And there's no other area above half of the bay

[near jasper]

Hornets drowning animation Will be based off what ari does when we throw him in a pool for 20 minutes

[grave stream]

is the everbloom stronger with Hornet because she isn't void, therefore it doesn't hate her like the Knight?
because everblooms and void don't coexist together that well

[stray fog]

That is one of the popular theories

[foggy stratus]

It might be stronger because it was from a memory.

[grave stream]

yeah

that was what i thought until i thought of this

[near jasper]

I feel like getting a flower from a root god Will be stronger than a flower in a random shelf from an old wokan

[dapper willow]

might be just a game mechanic

[random harbor]

White Lady - Delicate Flower - After giving Delicate Flower

Ah, what precious gift it offers, though alas I shan't accept.
Not of me that flower, nor of this kingdom. Far it travelled to reach this place, brought by one beloved, fair knight of lands serene.
There is rare power hidden in those frail petals.
To hold it so close, one must surely be unaware of its nature...

@dhruv._19 used /npcs misc name: White Lady category: Delicate Flower dialogue: After giving Delicate Flower

[stray fog]

The last line

[dapper willow]

it would suck if the flover broke after doing the whole quest

[grave stream]

It was brought by Ze'mer right? just making sure

[stray fog]

Yes

[near jasper]

Her flower yes white lady's we dont know but probably

[grave stream]

well WL probably just took one that grew from Ze'mer's or got one from Ze'mer idk

[near jasper]

What do you think everblooms taste like

[stray fog]

"not me this flower, nor of this kingdom"
She would probably be referring to all everblooms here, not just the specific one that tk has

[foggy stratus]

A dandelion.

[whole holly]

vanilla

[grave stream]

yeah

[stray fog]

Solidified soul

[grave stream]

dandeliens dont even taste bad

[whole holly]

really concentrated soul, like really condensed

[stray fog]

Yes

[near jasper]

So silk

[stray fog]

Make is soft

And delicate

[near jasper]

Gms tastes like everbloom

[foggy stratus]

Condensed milk it is.

[whole holly]

true

[grave stream]

is soul in every kingdom?
like blood on earth

[foggy stratus]

Yes.

[whole holly]

well, yeah soul is more universal than that

[stray fog]

All normal living things have it

[near jasper]

Yeah

[grave stream]

k

[dapper willow]

feels like being blasted by pure emotion ig

border settlements dlc when?

[near jasper]

Monday

[dapper willow]

uff

with every answered question I want to ask 5 more

ever evolving lore

[near jasper]

Underworker lung

[low oracle]

Silk isn't condensed soul, it's soul spun to thread.

[dapper willow]

condesed soul

[whole holly]

shamans have a term called swirled soul

[low oracle]

Is it a term though? You've gotta give more context.

[whole holly]

i mean they use it in recipe, either for Anguished Aura or Flickering Flame spell

[foggy stratus]

Fuck kinda AC/FotF cult ass spells are those???

[low oracle]

Sure, but that's like saying crushed egg shells. Is it a type of egg or a state the shell is in? If you get what I mean.

[whole holly]

I assume it is a soul in swirled state

[whole holly]

I think Groal uses Anguished Aura, it sounds a lot like vengeful spirit

[near jasper]

That sounds like the evil version of a scrambled egg

[sick tinsel]

whats the topic

[whole holly]

what swirled soul means

[near jasper]

Idk

[foggy stratus]

Or it could just be a stolen Vengful Spirit.

[whole holly]

i mean it does look slightly different, i doubt shamans plagiarize from each other, it looks like it is similar concept invented by another shaman

[low oracle]

Here's a theory: Shamans are made of void but don't know that they are.

Firstly, visually:
Many bugs have a black body with white eyes. However Shaman's bodies are different. In two cases, they explode into many black particles, very much similar to void. Furthermore they are absorbed the same way that the Knight absorbs certain void when obtaining Abyss Shriek. In the overgrown mound in HK we come across a large Shaman with a seemingly melted face. The Bell Hermit has similar visual features, however still alive. These visual properties of seemingly melting is also something void is heavily associated with. It could be possible that the Bell Hermit is "melting" due to growing so large, old, or any other reason putting them close to death. Overall, Shamans are very visually similar to void.

Now an argument I have heard very much is that they exclaim 'Our power's all of soul'. This I can't get behind. They are clearly using souls of others, not their own, for their spells. Futhermore, we know that void is drawn to soul (life energy). Hence it could be possible for life of void (negative life force, also present in vessels which are technically dead) to be very fixated on soul. We absolutely know that life of void is possible too.

Now, why do they proclaim they aren't familiar with void, or say that they haven't travelled to the source of it? Firstly, they never speak all of the truth. Even when not lying, none of their words can be trusted beyond what is technically true. Secondly, they never actually saw one of their kind die from what we can tell. The Shaman in HK is completely ignorant of the others passing when talking about them (some dialogue likely refers to certain shamans we find, all of them dead). So maybe they really just don't know.

I'd be happy to argue and listen to different sides, but don't see this as an opportunity to proclaim superior knowledge and be insulting. I want to listen to constructive facts, not some idiotic superiority complex.

[sick tinsel]

whats this

the one groal uses it ?

[whole holly]

no, Shaman Lore Tablets in Act 3

[sick tinsel]

okay

[crystal marsh]

shamans are not made of void, this has been known for years

[low oracle]

Another few points:
-Bell Hermit talks about "slaves", something that might relate back to the Steel Faction, who are also associated with void
-Snail Shamans are said to be somewhat oppressed among regular bugs, perhaps for their abilities, focus on literal life force or just seeming unnatural and dangerous

[whole holly]

abyss shriek particles look different than shaman black particles to best of my recollection with how they behave

[crystal marsh]

yeah

[low oracle]

Then prove it to me with facts, not pure statements.

[sick tinsel]

black snails

[sick tinsel]

they are slugs with shells bro

[low oracle]

Idk if you understand, but in arguments you need an actual reason or a source.

[sick tinsel]

if we take zote as an example his body is fully black

its just his shell

or mask

[low oracle]

Did you even read the whole text?

[sick tinsel]

its more of a design thing

[low oracle]

Cause otherwise you'd not give a response this stupid.

[sick tinsel]

you asked serrara to prove to you that shamans are not made of void

[pastel timber]

There’s red memory where they glow white and soul particles come out of them to fuel the spell, the melting is easily explained away as a stand in for a beard to show age, the black particles they explode into I’m pretty sure are directly called “black soul” in the files, the ones in pharloom live on top of a huge snail gravesite surely they’ve seen each other die, and it’s also worth remembering the tribe in pharloom and the tribe in hallownest are probably cut off from each other communication-wise explaining why the hallownest one is unaware of void but the pharlooms ones aren’t

[whole holly]

oh wow

[low oracle]

Many bugs have a black body with white eyes. However Shaman's bodies are different. In two cases, they explode into many black particles, very much similar to void.
A sentence in my text, literally saying why that is not the reason.

[whole holly]

i agree with this synthesis

[sick tinsel]

sorry didnt read the long one

[low oracle]

Good points. Though what is "black soul" then? The first thing that comes to my mind is void, as it is the other energy giving life to things.

[whole holly]

i never seen black soul stated anywhere? can you show me text where it is mentioned?

[sick tinsel]

it is void

[foggy stratus]

GPZ also does it. Is he Void?

[sick tinsel]

shade soul

[pastel timber]

It’s soul particles that are just coloured black, they have the solid core with the faint outline following the design of soul, void is solid black circles

[low oracle]

@pastel timber Mentioned it was in the files as a particle for the Shamans turning into the black balls, similarly to how void behaves.

[pastel timber]

Yeah it’s only a filename so don’t take it as gospel

It’s a really funny one though

“Black soul” sob

[whole holly]

i agree, it is just a filename

it might be just black living tissue, that's just it

[low oracle]

GPZ is a dream so that isn't a very good point as it can't be compared to real things. Eternal Ordeal isn't proof that Zote turret actually exists either.

[pastel timber]

Soul can be tinted different colours though, notably

The soul from the shaman crest has a distinct blue outline instead of the usual faded white

[foggy stratus]

Yes, but it shows that its just a design choice by TC. If Shamans were gray, it'd be gray orbs. If they were white it'd be white orbs and so on and so forth.

[low oracle]

That I don't agree with. Why would that be the case when there could just be soul orbs going into the Knight instead?

[dapper willow]

I do hope we'll get like a replayable gauntlet thing in the bossrush dlc
Like the eternal ordeal but with a larger enemy pool

[low oracle]

But the colour is irrelevant when the behaviour matches that of void. And even if the colour could be different, as of now it isn't.

[foggy stratus]

Silkengrind would go crazy.

[foggy stratus]

Doesn't the only 100% time Void particles go into TK show them obeying gravity, which Shaman orbs dont?

[low oracle]

Imagine a roguelike thing, where you pick up random tools and stuff while going through randomly generated rooms (as in, the rooms in-game in a random order).

[foggy stratus]

They share more in common with Mask or Vessel Fragments when you collect them.

[sick tinsel]

which one is more annoying chat

[low oracle]

I'm not sure, I can't remember it to that extent of detail.

[foggy stratus]

Beastfly. Ducts Enemy close second tho.

[near jasper]

Ducts

[foggy stratus]

Beastfly 2 specifically.

[low oracle]

Beastfly is a legitimately good bossfight. The Bellbobmer Guy may be a terrorist, but Garry is still worse.

[near jasper]

I still dont know how anyone struggles with beastfly

[foggy stratus]

Beastfly 1 is fine, Beastfly 2 is a little bitch.

[low oracle]

People struggle with the entire game and then blame one boss, kinda typical. Primal Aspids are way overhated for no reason.

[sick tinsel]

the bellbomber guy should be executed for warcrimes against weaverkind

[low oracle]

Personally, the only enemies I truly hate:
-Garry
-Tarmite
-Bellbomber Terrorist
-The guys in Verdania that are somehow stronger than the Green Prince

[whole holly]

it doesn't match the void though, it is black particle explosion

[whole holly]

i mean there is nothing to disagree with, it is shamans that exploded and their soul going into knight

[near jasper]

Beastfly would be a really hard boss if it didnt take like only 2 minutes of Fighting

[dapper willow]

Ids say it depends on what gear you have

[pastel timber]

Silksong makes it clearer, where in casting the red memory the shamans glow bright white as soul particles leave them and enter hornet/the spell, and then they’re gone leaving only shells behind full of soul residue (they leak soul particles when you strike them), the first game looks like the same thing especially given the hallownest shaman calls the shade soul shaman a “powerful source” we use to meld our own essence with the spell, just in the first game they used ‘black soul’ orbs as some sick joke to fuck with theorists

[whole holly]

exactly

plus Shaman = Void theories are really boring, most of time they lack any nuance

[foggy stratus]

Or solid evidence.

[whole holly]

well, yea

[dapper willow]

Is more bilewater lore possible in sos?
Its the most plausible since the area is so close

[pastel timber]

I hope so, I have some insane freak conspiracy theories that need vindicating 🔥

[dapper willow]

Speak em

[whole holly]

it is

[whole holly]

elaborate

i want some kind of interesting boss enemy in sea of sorrows, like second most difficult fight in game

[pastel timber]

The type of pillar that the ancient ducts is made of only shows up in the upper half of pharloom specifically where there is or used to be water, one system starts from the top right and flows down (polluted source at the ducts, polluted areas below), one starts from the top left and flows down (dead source from karak river drying up, dry and dead lands below)

These pillars are also built on by the karak themselves, which means the citadel might not have built them, since if that was the case they’d have to push the karak back to the tower, build the pillars, then abandon them, then the karak built on their ruins, then the citadel pushed them back again without rebuilding?? They show up in weird places the citadel shouldn’t have been to as well like the watcher at the edge’s room

It’s my insane crackpot conspiracy theory that these pillars are part of an ancient aqueduct system pre-dating the citadel that supplied pharloom with water and the citadel messing with both of the sources of this system is what caused widespread ecological destruction including the collapse of verdania (of which those pillars appear in the lost verdania memory, also somewhere the citadel probably shouldn’t have been)

These pillars show up in the SoS trailer, in the crest room, so I’ll see if I’m dead wrong or onto something

[whole holly]

you are matching this theory pretty much : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YiYRXQW_31Y

it explains geology

[pastel timber]

I’ll give it a watch in a bit when I can

[dapper willow]

OMG

you are on the pillar crack too

Can we be pillar siblings?

[whole holly]

AC and Shamans do somewhat converge with their soul usage and spells

[dapper willow]

I'm 1000% in on there existing a civilisation that built them before the kingdoms

I name them
The pillar men civilisation

[stray fog]

You should watch the religious history of pharloom

On YouTube

[whole holly]

Beasts, Old Heart Civilization and Ancient Civilization as well as Weavers are contenders

[pastel timber]

https://tenor.com/view/i-knew-i-liked-you-pim-pim-mr-boss-smiling-friends-super-monkey-ball-gif-1806768725823223020

[stray fog]

It has the same claim

[pastel timber]

Damn no gif perms

[whole holly]

yea

[dapper willow]

This is the type of shit you see on the bottom of the iceberg

[whole holly]

expanded in second video

[stray fog]

"beasts"
Sounds like they wouldn't have been making architecture

[pastel timber]

theyre the fun ones i love theories that are borderline conspiracies

[dapper willow]

Pspsppspss

[stray fog]

Holdon do pillar locations match with old heart locations

[whole holly]

chapel of beast suggest culture revolved around them

[whole holly]

not really no

[pastel timber]

hold on i have a diagram if youll give me a sec to find it

[stray fog]

W

[whole holly]

beasts were part of old culture it seems and lot of fossil beats are AC

[stray fog]

Mt fay is one of the pillar regions without an old heart (Although I like to belive that a fayforn is an old heart)

[dapper willow]

Yes
There is one in mount fey too : )

[whole holly]

yeah

[whole holly]

Khann civilization covered half of pharloom at it's peak

[dapper willow]

I think im wrong
The pillars are all over the place

[whole holly]

well yeah, Wisp Thicket too

[dapper willow]

Hmm

[stray fog]

No old heart in that region

[dapper willow]

Not that we know of

(Shamans were wrong)

[pastel timber]

oh wait i dont have image perms

whoops

[whole holly]

i assume so

[stray fog]

Youll need 300 messages

[whole holly]

Father of the Flame is referred to as Pyre's Heart

[pastel timber]

i have 1941 😭

[stray fog]

Dm modmail
Theyll give you perms

[pastel timber]

300 after they made the perm system i assume

[dapper willow]

I definitely have more than that but i still cant post images

[pastel timber]

in any case

[stray fog]

No

[whole holly]

i can post them and i am glad honestly

[stray fog]

The same happened to me and I got the perms after dming modmail

[dapper willow]

Eh its whatever

I can dm people thr images

[pastel timber]

these pillars show up in the left of mt fay, karak, blasted steps, upper shellwood (including the area around nyleths shrine and inside nyleths chamber, though oddly the shrine itself uses a different kind of stone wall), one shaft in the wormways, ducts, bilewater, upper left verdania, and wisp thicket

forming two halfs of a system that seem to overlap at the wisp thicket

the bottom of these systems are moss grotto, shellwood, greymoor, and verdania, all places where water pools and in some cases stagnates

[dapper willow]

I think that makes sense
The citadel built nyleth's shrine
And they used the already present pillars

[stray fog]

If you don't mind, please upload the image somewhere and share a link

[pastel timber]

i'll refine it a bit first i just drew it from memory

[stray fog]

The bay also has a pillar as seen in the trailer

[whole holly]

Nyleth fight memory shows pillars which give insight about time it took place

[stray fog]

True

[whole holly]

video explains it in depth you guys, go watch it

[stray fog]

@whole holly can you send that theory again

About mt fay

[whole holly]

i shared a link

[whole holly]

i also plan about making theory around nyleth as well

[stray fog]

Found it

[whole holly]

https://docs.google.com/document/d/14_zdtxC4sjIhQ9fUa1eh3V5bqD0wyqWOrcZqr5ptKK4/edit?usp=sharing

this or the youtube video?

[stray fog]

This

[whole holly]

okay

[pastel timber]

do you know a good site, imgur's region blocked

[dapper willow]

Jeez

You could send it in dm

[pastel timber]

thats true

if anyone has image perms and would like to send it on my behalf

or just see it

its only a crude annotation of the world map

[sinful nimbus]

image perms are supposed to unlock at 300 messages you could probably just ask a mod

[stray fog]

@whole holly
There are more memory related things in skong

• silk seems to have something to do with memories. (hornet's dialogues about the everbloom hint at this, and pavo's description of being haunted includes "memories that weren't his own")
• all chapel needolin dialogues are about remembering. So maybe crests have something to do with memory? It would make sense because crests are already somewhat related to the mind

And there's the whole theme of memory in silksong

[stray fog]

Dm it to me

[whole holly]

well, yea i discuss nature of memories, i will make more of them in future if i can

[whole holly]

interesting

[stray fog]

It probably wasn't the AC that built these then

The pillars are everywhere except regions near the abyss

[stray fog]

Not counting the citadel and bellhart here because they would have just demolished any pillars that existed there

[pastel timber]

mhm, citadel has annihilated whatever was there before

but given that at every point of ducts theres water flowing down into the system from above i image theres some huge water source/reservoir in the caves above the citadel somewhere that this system taps into

the citadel itself probably taps into it as well given that every water source we can see is dried up or polluted and yet the high halls water features are fine

[stray fog]

Even the damn wormways and the thicket have pillars somehow

[pastel timber]

it might tell us more about moss grotto too

if its thriving off of the stagnant water there then perhaps thats the final runoff from when the duct system above it dried up, maybe thats when the mosslands came to be and thats why they still feel so new

an old heart in the process of being made, and its only half taken over the marrow so far, nowhere near established and settled yet

[dapper willow]

I'm still a proponent of the idea that there is an unknown civilisation that built the pillars

[pastel timber]

agreed

[dapper willow]

before the old heart civs

and they are not the ancient civ

[pastel timber]

shamans only told us of the old hearts that they thought were still available to us, they didnt even mention verdania

who knows how old pharloom is, how many civilisations are lost to time and memory

[dapper willow]

the video said that there are places where the heart civs dug up the pillars for passageways

[stray fog]

Some of these pillars seem so isolated from the rest

The thicket pillar is nowhere near other pillars

And its only one pillar

[dapper willow]

maybe its just a lore mistake

[pastel timber]

youve gotta remember the citadel blocks out all the pillars that wouldve been there

[dapper willow]

or some other explanation

[pastel timber]

if we assume there were pillars where the citadel was then theyre all connected, none isolated

[dapper willow]

greymoor and bellhart probably demolished all other pillars nearby

[stray fog]

True

[pastel timber]

its a whole row of them, just theyre all destroyed except for the top parts

[stray fog]

I wonder why they're only in the upper part of pharloom

[dapper willow]

we gotta make a civ iceberg at this rate

[pastel timber]

my very first thought was maybe they were karakian, and that was the half of pharloom the karak held, but that makes no sense since the karak have a distinct style of architecture theyve built on top of the ruined pillars

[stray fog]

Do we have enough civilizations for that

[dapper willow]

civ and related iceberg

[pastel timber]

i imagine if they are a duct system that theyre just close to where the water source is

[dapper willow]

like the mottled scar
surface village

etc

[stray fog]

Oh

Then we have enough

[dapper willow]

the thieves

snitchbugs

[stray fog]

The aether vivarium finna carry this iceberg

[dapper willow]

hell yeah

[whole holly]

video is fun watch, seriously

they connected Moth Glyphs at Crystal Peaks to Radiance, Pale King, White Lady, Lifeblood Creature and Unn

Ammonites and Gastropods might not be same, obviously but they are all molluscs and molluscs may play intentionally different things

[pastel timber]

honestly when you look really closely at the abyss rocks pretty much all of it seems like larger or smaller versions of other formations

makes it hard to tell whats naturally formed with the whole "formed as if the rock itself had a will" thing

[whole holly]

did you watch the videos?

[pastel timber]

i fear i dont have 45 minutes spare for a video rn

[whole holly]

ok, you are missing out

[dapper willow]

i did it

if you guys have more in mind then remind me because I forgot

I actually regularly started running out of space
there is a lot

[foggy stratus]

Tf is Pillar civilization.

[dapper willow]

read up a bit

we have been talking about it

[dapper willow]

this

[jagged sun]

Okay that's really cool

[dapper willow]

i need more stuff in abyss so throw me your most outlandish ideas
Most obscure

[jagged sun]

The fact that someone managed to make a somewhat coherent theory out of reccuring background objects is super awesomesauce

[jagged sun]

Which Abyss? HK, SS, or both?

[dapper willow]

for the abyss tier of my iceberg

[jagged sun]

Hmmm

Lemme think gimme a minute

The shapeshifters/ identity changers like Nosk and Skynx

[dapper willow]

we don't have much to go on about them unfortunately

its just one guy really

[jagged sun]

Two guys

[dapper willow]

this iceberg is silksong only but go on

[pastel timber]

every single piece of stone including the pillars the lighthouse is built on can be put on a scale from smallest to largest and each consecutive object has overlapping traits which makes the whole "formed as if the rocks themselves have a will" quote a lot more interesting

[dapper willow]

huh
I don't know what you mean exactly

[pastel timber]

the floors and the small spiral 'fossils' are segmented rock, with little flicks up at the back similar to shadow creepers
bigger ones get weird oval indents on their segments, other arches and large segments and the pillars also have these indents, while keeping the segmented style

[dapper willow]

interesting

[pastel timber]

the weird thing is though, if you take that to mean that the roads and structures there are naturally formed as they seem to be, then pharloom has a lack of any actual ancient civ structures, just the arcane egg, its pedestal, and the 2/3 lore tablets

and even the egg in silksong is said to be "formed"

[jagged sun]

Nosk and Skynx are both shapechangers that can be recognized when transformed when the head is upside down, which is probably to recognize one another. They hunt and are carnivores (Nosk is infected so strings up his victims and Skynx we don't know but must have killed thousands of Pilgrims and other intelligent bugs to get all his rosaries), and the only other thing we know about them is that they use the memories of their victims to lire them in. This means that the different timelines theory is most likely true, since to get Winged Nosk (who uses Hornet since TK grew an attachment), you need to kill THK, and to get Skynx you need Steel Soul mode, which needs you to beat the game. Which probably means that the other versions of TK and Hornet that filled these conditions probably exist as some sort of phantom memory within the current iteration.

Kaboom

[dapper willow]

well thats some crazy shit

[pastel timber]

Skynx is an interesting case because their dialogue is copied from styx and hornet, broken fragments and excerpts of lines from the others

[jagged sun]

Thank you

[pastel timber]

The main difference being that skynx doesn’t copy someone from hornets mind, like how nosk hunts

[jagged sun]

Nosk probably just can't talk because of infection

[dapper willow]

I wonder how much masks infulence culture

That could be a candidate on the iceberg

[jagged sun]

Ooh I'm making a video on what I think is the lore of masks I'll dm you when it's done

It'll be my first one too yay

[dapper willow]

Masks seem to define a bug's personality when they are worn
Do cultures try to spread themselves by forcing/putting on masks on the uninitiated and making them a member of their own?

[jagged sun]

I think that's what teb Grimm Troupe does

Like how Brumm loses both his mask and his memories when he presumably becomes Nymm

[dapper willow]

also stix

I think

has many masks

[limpid summit]

Masks are a metaphor for identity in some cases

[jagged sun]

Masks are said by both Mask Makers to give bugs a sense of identity

[limpid summit]

It holds up because they’re bugs so sometimes they have natural masks sometimes they have artificial ones

It’s not significant in all cases where masks are worn though

But sometimes it is

[pastel timber]

The dialogue makes a hell of a lot of sense with the meta theory of mask maker being ari Gibson, the whole giving bugs a face and a whole existence along with it

[limpid summit]

Huh

You don’t need to kill THK to get Winged Nosk

[jagged sun]

Panthéon of Hallownest requires Panthéon of the Knight, which requires beating THK

[pastel timber]

It actually doesn’t

You can do p5 without killing a single dreamer

[limpid summit]

It does?

Yeah right

The only reason Nosk doesn’t transform into Hornet is because we don’t really start bonding with her until she saves us from the cast off shell, and TC didn’t expect that most players would do Nosk after getting monarch wings

[pastel timber]

In canon we go into godhome before killing thk in any case

[limpid summit]

Same reason why White Defender is unlocked in Godhome automatically

[pastel timber]

Since if we kill it we get placed at the bench before we killed it

[limpid summit]

It’s post dreamers but TC doesn’t expect you to fight Uumuu and WK and then just walk out

[dapper willow]

i got it

ancient citadel

It looked much different from what it is rn
As evidenced by the pious statue

that could go into the abyss tier

[limpid summit]

Probably yeah

Stuff like First Sinner’s Slab

[dapper willow]

is it obscure enough tho?

[pastel timber]

I thought it was common knowledge tbh

[dapper willow]

then maybe not

[limpid summit]

You’re looking for like the deepest HK knowledge?

[jagged sun]

Yes I believe that there are alternate canon timelines that affect the main one so take my bs with a grain of salt

[limpid summit]

I mean at that point it’s mostly just theories

[jagged sun]

Also bye

You need to kill THK to get P4

[dapper willow]

want to put at least 3 in abyss tier

[pastel timber]

That’s traitor lord and failed champion

[limpid summit]

But

Theres a subtle theory I can explain

[pastel timber]

There’s ten bosses in the pantheon and only 9 on the unlock thing cause the final boss is treated as its own thingy

[jagged sun]

Oh shoot j though that was THK

[dapper willow]

i put the pillar civ in there which is like 75% chance untrue so lay it on me

[limpid summit]

Oh wait this is silksong only

[dapper willow]

yes

[limpid summit]

Uhhh

I really dk

Silksong is too recent for many super deep cuts

Let’s eee

[dapper willow]

its a "civilisation and related" iceberg
So it could be religion or a people group or anything like that

maybe the 3 eras of the citadel?

is that obscure enough?

[pastel timber]

depends what your 3 eras are

[dapper willow]

gms, weaver, and then conductor

Thats the commonly accepted thought no?

[pastel timber]

not where im from

citadel was weaver made custom built to trap gms she never really reigned over it

mask maker says as much

[dapper willow]

yeah

but consider
It was built while gms reigned by definition
So even tho she did not control the place, its history is still intertwined with it

[pastel timber]

kinda? but i wouldnt really call it a whole era

[dapper willow]

maybe you are right

obscure stuff sure is hard to come by

[pastel timber]

thats the idea

im sure dlc'll give you some new stuff

[dapper willow]

yeah!!

I guess I can leave it at that

And let someone steal it and post it on reddit to farm me karma by association

at least I can say that I contributed one original idea

[limpid summit]

Yeah

Or eras of Pharloom I guess

Pre-GMS, GMS, Weaver, Conductor, Haunting

[dapper willow]

makes sense

thats fitting

[limpid summit]

GMS era she fought Karm and Khann and stuff

[dapper willow]

there is a pre-pre gms

thats the pillar stuff

[limpid summit]

Actually that’s an interesting thing for the iceberg

GMS didn’t just live in a vacuum with the Weavers when she was awake

She didn’t have a societal drive but she did jockey with locals for power

The dialogue about Karmelita and Khann and her isn’t about the Haunting it’s about her being awake

“Alone against the pale light”
“Strength to resist the pale monarchs will”

[dapper willow]

that ties into the strenght worship

I suppose she could be the prime beast

wait that does make some sense

the video talked about beast worship

so in a way gms is a sort of return to form

with her "beastly nature"

there is a pattern I see

it starts out with the void era and the ancient civilisation, which is a worship of a primal force

Then that falls and we get mortals who rise

Then gms comes along who is a "primal" force of soul, or something like that

Then hornet topples her ushering in a new era of mortal bugs once more

final version

I'll go crazy if I continue

[foggy stratus]

I still don't know what pillar civilization is

[dapper willow]

the civilisation that made the pillars

thats that

[foggy stratus]

What pillars?

[dapper willow]

karak
mount fey
whisp ticket
Shellwood
Verdania

All of them have the pillars

most prominent in karak/steps

[foggy stratus]

That still doesn't answer my question on what they are.

[dapper willow]

they are pillars

and they were made by someone

[near jasper]

Michael

[dapper willow]

someone I call the pillar civ

its in the video

[foggy stratus]

And why not assume that the Weavers or Citadel made them?

And what do they even look like?

[dapper willow]

because they are at places where the citadel has no business being

[foggy stratus]

The Citadel has a lot of business in those places.

Except Thicket.

[dapper willow]

They are in karak and bilewater
Which means that the citadel could not have built them because those guys would have murderised them

and it doesn't look like their architecture

[near jasper]

It was Michael

[floral quiver]

That's very early citadel.

When it was a stone fortress church

[dapper willow]

The abyss tier is reserved for crack theories
basically 75% untrue stuff

the rest of them are more legit

[floral quiver]

You can see that type of construction in the Underworks

Including the stone offering statues

[foggy fractal]

also don't we see citadel iconography plus statues with the pillars
these

[floral quiver]

Yes

The stone came first, then the later Conductors gilded it

Then they built up from what amounts to the roof of the Old stone Citadel.

[sick tinsel]

wheres the greyroot

[dapper willow]

its also possible that the citadel utilised what they already had on hand

[dapper willow]

either I forgot or I thought it was not influential enough to be in the civ and related iceberg

[near jasper]

Wheres the steel people

[dapper willow]

not in pharloom
Also I forgot about them and counldn't remember then when making it

[sharp pawn]

zi is in pharloom

[sick tinsel]

they seem to be sent to kingdoms

idk why

city of steel dlc when

[sharp pawn]

i mean they said that in an expansion they will reveal more about the steel society

[near jasper]

And sharpe

[dapper willow]

it is what it is

[sharp pawn]

not yet

but probably soon

[near jasper]

Tomorrow

[dapper willow]

hah

[sharp pawn]

i wonder if sea of sorrow would even be in pharloom

[dapper willow]

I'm still a pillar civ believer

[dapper willow]

it should be
but it would be super cool if we got to leave pharloom for a bit

[sick tinsel]

it should be in pharloom

pharloom bay possibly

[sharp pawn]

pharloom bay is the bay

[near jasper]

Its pharloom because there wasnt anyone to care when the citadel said "yeah this is mine now lol"

[sick tinsel]

[sharp pawn]

maybe the submersible like takes you to territory that isnt considered from pharloom

[dapper willow]

its cut off from the citadel by bilewater

so they probably lost that territory

[sick tinsel]

id most likely say that its on the pale lake

[sick tinsel]

because this

[near jasper]

How does the text on weaver mummies work

[dapper willow]

huh??

[sharp pawn]

effigies?

[near jasper]

It just kinda appears

[near jasper]

The mummies

The ones you bind

[sharp pawn]

oh

[floral quiver]

Silk.

[dapper willow]

they talk to you

[sharp pawn]

its the whispers

[dapper willow]

magic words of dead people

[sick tinsel]

they talk

[sharp pawn]

idk why theyre there

they just are

[dapper willow]

because its a soulslike
And in soulslikes the more dead you are, the more important you are to the lore

[floral quiver]

If you have strong emotions, one can last after the death og ones shell

[dapper willow]

silk also seems to be able to preserve memories

[sick tinsel]

what if silksong is hornet dreams after sealed siblings and the real silksong is the friends hornet made up

[floral quiver]

They're waiting for someone to claim their power and free their kingdom from Silk. Whether through binding her or other means

[sharp pawn]

maybe they just wanna share their cool tricks they learned while they were alive

[near jasper]

How aware are the weavers in that mummy state

[sharp pawn]

this is a joke i am joking

[dapper willow]

a little bit
Thats what I think

first sinner is avare enough to kick hornet's ass

[near jasper]

First sinner changed her text to piss of the weavers in hornets mind after she bound her

[sick tinsel]

🤑

[runic plume]

what happens lore wise when u do twisted child ending

[near jasper]

Twisted bud consumes gms

So now its basically a god

Are stiltkin all the same species

[foggy stratus]

I just noticed if you play the needolin near Shakra's master's corpse Hornet plays a different song. Neat.

[foggy stratus]

Probably?

I dunno.

[near jasper]

Honestly I dont ferl like they are

No one's wings matches

Groal frog mouth

[foggy stratus]

Groal ate a shit load of Soul.

[near jasper]

The shaman seemingly trying to join the tribe

[near jasper]

And the pinstress

[foggy stratus]

I think he just tried to ally with them instead of join them.

[sick tinsel]

would hornet help the knight beat THK if she knew that the radiance is fluffy

[foggy stratus]

Yes.

Fluff is temporary, but Hallownest is Eternal.

[near jasper]

And extra limbs but its team cherry so like

[sick tinsel]

meh

[near jasper]

The pinstress is definitely a different species from the stiltkin

Her body has segments but stiltkin's are smooth black

[sick tinsel]

mosquitos

[near jasper]

Mosquito

[sick tinsel]

frog

is groal a frog or a big beetle

[near jasper]

Groal is a

[sick tinsel]

soul master sewer edition

[limpid summit]

Canonically he’s a beetle or something for sure

But he’s froglike on purpose

[whole holly]

i agree AppleEgg

[limpid summit]

Because his leadership is dooming the stilkin

The frog leading the mosquitos

Thank you nick

[whole holly]

you are welcome

[near jasper]

I dont think stiltkin are mosquitos

[whole holly]

what are they, also what should we call you?

[near jasper]

Idk man

They only have a single mosquito like quality

Also just call me tarata

[whole holly]

that is great name, tarata

do you guys think Mister Mushroom is higher being?

[near jasper]

Thank you

[near jasper]

Not really

[whole holly]

i understand, some treat it as confirmed fact

[near jasper]

Thats kinda dumb

[whole holly]

i have to agree

[near jasper]

Mr mushroom doesnt really have anything actually special outside being ancient

[whole holly]

also are these Runes ? i thought they were bioluminescent fungal growth

[whole holly]

some argue his foresight

[near jasper]

Is it even really foresight

[near jasper]

Your guess is as good as mine

[whole holly]

some outright swear they are runes

[limpid summit]

I would say so

[keen zephyr]

Chat where did hornet get the needle?

[limpid summit]

I think this video makes it fairly obvious

[near jasper]

Vespa

[limpid summit]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1410186760121745541/1492982268224995430/ScreenRecording_04-12-2026_16-18-00_1.mov?ex=69dd4f97&is=69dbfe17&hm=3ad096816f137b81c46500ad672d137faef12bd80b76e29cf2a4c5aa37c16bca&

[near jasper]

Its made from "hivesteel" and vespa trained her for fighting

[whole holly]

Vespa, my beloved, she is my third fav from HK

[keen zephyr]

That’s kinda tuff 🙏

[near jasper]

Where does he even actually show foresight

[whole holly]

idk, AppleEgg knows

[keen zephyr]

Chat why is trobbio so fun to fight

[near jasper]

Hes based

[keen zephyr]

And can I fight him again?

[near jasper]

Trobbio has 2 fights

[keen zephyr]

holy W

[whole holly]

in some lore tablets Mister Mushroom says Wyrms create kingdoms and they fall but Mister Mushroom readjusts, i guess, that could be observation pattern honestly

[keen zephyr]

Isn’t the second one purple?

[near jasper]

Yes

[limpid summit]

I mean stuff like the riddle tablet that speaks his path describes events as set in place by factors he wouldn’t have witnessed

[whole holly]

well, yeah

[keen zephyr]

is it harder? 👀

[limpid summit]

Yes

[whole holly]

yeah

[limpid summit]

It’s a fun fight

[keen zephyr]

:D

[limpid summit]

No that’s not the evidence that he has foresight at all that’s a bit of a misconstruction

Also it’s his DND

[near jasper]

Does that even count as his foresight

[limpid summit]

Yes?

Silksong tablet describes blackthreading, HK tablet describes timely stuff like Isma

He’s got a unique powerful combination of foresight and world sense

[near jasper]

Yeah but like is that even him

[whole holly]

extrasensory abilities could be explanation? don't you think?

[whole holly]

idk

[near jasper]

Also im gonna be honest mr mushroom probably has been to pharloom before for the creation of the citadel ngl

[whole holly]

if he travels, that would make sense

[limpid summit]

What do you mean

[whole holly]

who wrote it, most likely, who is the author?

[near jasper]

Its not like he wrote the tablets

[limpid summit]

They’re just recounting what he says about his own path

No I doubt he did

But the path was likely communicated to them somehow

[limpid summit]

Probably yeah

[whole holly]

who is they?

[limpid summit]

The Shrumals

[whole holly]

ok, but in Pharloom?

[near jasper]

Those mushrooms on the floor are really smart trust me

[limpid summit]

Shrumals that we don’t see

It’s the same sort of thing

Perhaps the tablet is extremely old

[whole holly]

it could just be fungal growth he can influence, since he is mister mushroom , and has access to the world even in different kingdoms, it may be something like Extrasensory Abilities, let's just call it mushroom sense

[near jasper]

Maybe the fleamaster wrote the tablet in exchange for poisoning kratt with toxic mushrooms

[limpid summit]

Fungal growth he can influence?

[near jasper]

[limpid summit]

Well perhaps

[whole holly]

mycelium is basically root of fungus, and it transmits information and everything, they communicate with each other and trees too and create worldwide network bigger than internet irl

[limpid summit]

But this would mean he created the tablet implying Soul mastery

[near jasper]

Mushrooms seem to kinda just follow him wherever he goes

[limpid summit]

Maybe he created the mushrooms as well?

[whole holly]

more like instruct fungal growth , like nyleth can instruct plants

[limpid summit]

The sentient mushrooms that walk his path

Now I believe it even more

[whole holly]

that would make Nyleth soul master too...

[limpid summit]

Nyleth doesn’t make runes

[whole holly]

he communicates with them through mycelium, now i see why he is talking to ground often

[limpid summit]

That’s actually a very interesting idea

[near jasper]

Its kinda weird the actual plants in shellwood have needolin dialogue

[limpid summit]

Even though mycelium might not exist in HK

That could be why he is rooted

Man he’s so cool and strong

I believe it even more

He has kingdom-spanning reach

[whole holly]

it might in any sense, if it is metaphysical, it would help your point of him being higher being, we need confirmation now

[whole holly]

universe-spanning if true

[limpid summit]

Bro this ain’t undertale

[whole holly]

they also produce pollen similarly to how fungal growth produces spores

[limpid summit]

I wouldn’t go that far

[whole holly]

i mean, i don't think you know what mycelium is

it does connect everything

it acts as brain, but that's oversimplification

[limpid summit]

Okay but that might not exist in HK

That’s irl biology

[whole holly]

well, yeah, but his extrasensory abilities align with it, no?

[limpid summit]

What

Mycelium?

[whole holly]

and him directing fungal growth as well as path of shrumals, that kind of confirms it, no?

[limpid summit]

Confirms what, no?

[whole holly]

well yea, no?

[whole holly]

AppleEgg...

Tarata do you have something to say?

[limpid summit]

I’m not sure what you’re saying

[near jasper]

No :)

[whole holly]

we can see him influence growth of mushrooms and fungus, as well as path of shrumals in your world, that aligns with function of mycelium

[whole holly]

why not? i am pretty sure you have lot to contribute

[near jasper]

I didnt do mr mushroom in the first game so im missing a lot of context

[limpid summit]

Yeah but no he’s not actually connected to their shared mind

[whole holly]

oh yeah, i should redo it in steel soul

[whole holly]

it's not hive mind it is a network, that might be optional for him largely

[limpid summit]

What

It is shared self, mind united

But MM has his own agenda

I don’t know if he’s tapping in

[whole holly]

mycelium is not like shared mind you describe

[limpid summit]

Okay so that doesn’t have grounds within the game

But the shared mind does

[whole holly]

okay, AppleEgg, i was just speculating jesus

also what about Fungus in deepnest, they are so white, does Elina say anything about them, when i walk past them i see soul particles from disruption

[near jasper]

What do you think the mm dialogue in silksong is about

[limpid summit]

She says they are bioluminescent

[unique vector]

Why tf did the shamans die

[limpid summit]

That I’m inclined to believe because they don’t whisper with Soul and show runic patterns

[whole holly]

yeah

[near jasper]

Used up too much strenght to cast the spell

I assume

[whole holly]

what is whisper with soul, is that mentioned anywhere?

[unique vector]

Idk from how they look it looks like something killed them manually

[whole holly]

idk, i mostly speculate on his dialogue with Fayforn, as i really am fan of fayforn

[limpid summit]

Audibly you can hear whispers during things like PK Soul tablets and Soul Master attacks

[near jasper]

They exploded like the guys you get spell upgrades from explode

[limpid summit]

He himself mentions it

[near jasper]

I think most his dialogue is detailing the pilgrimage

[limpid summit]

Soul whispers

[whole holly]

agree

[whole holly]

mention it where?

[unique vector]

Looks like it cuz I dont think they just conveniently get killed when they cast the spell

[limpid summit]

Dude I just showed you

[whole holly]

??

[limpid summit]

Soul master orbs whisper and so do the PK tablets and PK himself

[near jasper]

Spell that explodes you and makes a single person go on a drug trip

[limpid summit]

The riddle tablet whispers in a similar way

[whole holly]

PK himself? i mean do you have screenshot or quote?

[limpid summit]

Do I have a screenshot or quote of audio?

I’m not sure you realize what you’re asking

[whole holly]

word soul whisper being mentioned as you suggested

or whisper, mentioned by pale king, didn't you say that

[limpid summit]

https://youtu.be/vImvuQAhqag?si=eQqaK4Vjk8M_CXSa

https://youtu.be/XLBhKzHzdlM?si=akofCpTOsTuaZA_B

[whole holly]

when do they say whisper??

what timeframe

[limpid summit]

What

Oh I mean Soul Master says “I can hear it, the whispering of their souls!”

But like you can hear it too right

Sounds pretty obvious to me

I’m glad TC put that dream nail dialogue in there so you could confirm that the whisper noises are in fact whispers

[whole holly]

oh, why couldn't you just put DND of Soul Master

[limpid summit]

Because it seems nice to corroborate with what the game shows us

Learning to understand showing without telling is vital

[whole holly]

so true AppleEgg

[near jasper]

Shout out to that one cut needolin dialogue that just dropped that soul was pale essence in a random line

[whole holly]

where is it, tarata?

[near jasper]

Ruined chapel

[whole holly]

so basically, i think Caravantina might be in Sea of Sorrows DLC

[near jasper]

If im remembering right

[whole holly]

yea but do you have a link? of wiki?

[near jasper]

https://hollowknight.wiki/w/Cut_Content_(Silksong)/Text

Needolin section here

[whole holly]

wow, i mean even Void has Black Essence particles that was cut, Soul being Pale essence is something, everything great is in cut content

[foggy fractal]

they also fucking cut bagpipers

:C

[near jasper]

Random confimation that essence is actually physical too

[whole holly]

Caravantula too

[foggy fractal]

tc hates fun!

[whole holly]

i mean it can manifest physically

[whole holly]

and lore

[whole holly]

they want lore to be labyrinth with no exit

[near jasper]

Team cherry should add back the original silkeater queen quest

[whole holly]

they should honestly replace writers with me

/s

[foggy fractal]

no,

me

[whole holly]

okay, is andy going to be main character?

is Pablo child of Sister Splinter and Lord Fool??

[foggy fractal]

maybe

[whole holly]

i really like Lifeblood Beast, i hope it shows up underwater

[lone folio]

If it doesn't show up in sea of sorrow I will actually crash out

[whole holly]

really???

i mean it is not THAT good of character

unless you have been drinking too much lifeblood

[lone folio]

I just need to know if my theory about it being a kind of parallel of the radiance is true or not

If the lifeblood higher being isn't a butterfly I will throw my laptop out the window

[whole holly]

it is, we don't need sea of sorrows for that, also that's my theory too, let's publish it

[whole holly]

it is , look at the flowers

[near jasper]

Hornet killing the lifeblood creature and coming back to see the seeds still alive in wormways

[lone folio]

We dont get to see the lifeblood hb and people are trying to argue that it's a shadow creeper

[whole holly]

lol

[lone folio]

(if the lifeblood creature even is the hb of lifeblood, some people also argue that it's not)

[whole holly]

grom mutating into lifeblood hb slowly

[whole holly]

yeah

i would say it is

[lone folio]

Yeah, it would make sense if the lifeblood hb is a radiance parallel

Since it shows up exclusively in the dream realm

Like the radiance

[stray grove]

Yes because there are only two things in this universe

Lifeblood is already an Infection parallel because TC are creatively bankrupt

Ofc the same is true of the Haunting

[foggy stratus]

Don't slander TC like that, man.

[spark valve]

parallel is generous it's more of a rehash

[stray grove]

Are you their lawyer

TC are bad writers

[foggy stratus]

No but I don't like seeing slander of my favorite game makers.

[foggy stratus]

That's just rude, man.

[spark valve]

it's a mv the standards are what they are

[stray grove]

Your favorite game developers are not above criticism

[stray grove]

But yes

Slop genre

TC should’ve made a survival shooter instead

[lone folio]

They should of made a mobile game

Monetize everything

[limpid summit]

TC should have made a quirky RPG

[stray grove]

Quirky Earthbound-inspired RPG*

[spark valve]

Mine are tho

[lone folio]

They should have made a tabletop rpg

[stray grove]

Same

[foggy stratus]

The criticism is them being called creatively bankrupt after having two similar afflictions in two separate games.

[foggy stratus]

Exactly.

[stray grove]

Three*

Also lol

You say afflictions like they’re not the driving force behind each game’s narrative

They just rehashed the same thing twice and decided to bring back Lifeblood as a reference to the first game while also rehashing it a third time

[foggy stratus]

I barely consider Haunting and the Infection to be similar. They serve the same purpose, yeah, but functionally they're different.

[spark valve]

Good writers would have caught the slabfly entries

[stray grove]

Barely

[spark valve]

They’re not tho

[limpid summit]

Kirb what do you make of the riddle tablets

Why are the whispers half normal and half mushroom

[stray grove]

Because TC had lost the plot

Does Hornet speak Shrumal canonically

[limpid summit]

Yes

She’s probably talking in Shrumal to MM

[stray grove]

Well MM can probably speak English

[limpid summit]

Why would he speak English

England doesn’t exist

[stray grove]

I don’t think Fayforn speaks Shrumal

[limpid summit]

True

[stray grove]

The script is written in English so that’s what the characters are speaking

Also you know what I meant

[limpid summit]

I know

[spark valve]

mm communication retcon is so lame

[limpid summit]

I think it’s funny that Hornet knows Shrumal

It’s also funny that she’s like oh my god he’s so cool

[stray grove]

I don’t think she does I think he’s just speaking a different language now

[limpid summit]

I really thought she’d ignore him

Or he’d appear in a different form or something

But no it’s Mr Mushroom

[stray grove]

He’s probably speaking the equivalent of Common

[near jasper]

Mask maker climbed to fayforn to explain shrumal to her

[limpid summit]

But she reads the tablet she has to

[stray grove]

Shrumals also like communicate using spores n shit idk if it’s even a spoken language per se

[limpid summit]

Do you think PK’s prescience was like the Moths and Rad to them

He was a closer version of MM

[stray grove]

PK could communicate with the Shrumals telepathically

[spark valve]

the tablet works differently it's probably just in common whereas in hk the text was magic

[stray grove]

Yeah

[limpid summit]

Fair

[spark valve]

mm really just lost all his aura huh

[stray grove]

Realistically Shrumal communication should be too different for them to communicate “normally” with other bugs they probably just spoke Common

[whole holly]

they should have made cosy game

[stray grove]

In the hype moments and aura game no less

[spark valve]

well it's not great at hype moments and aura

[foggy stratus]

They should have made it run Doom.

[limpid summit]

Well they probably didn’t do much talking

[stray grove]

I don’t think they interacted with Hallownest much no

[limpid summit]

Melancholy of disparity and all

[spark valve]

one shared internal monologue

[stray grove]

They also didn’t need to talk to one another

[whole holly]

they should have made GTA6

[limpid summit]

Man the Shrumals lowkey tie everything together

Underrated society

[stray grove]

I do think PK is a telepath though

[spark valve]

the shrumals are a cool concept for a fantasy race

[limpid summit]

The shared self mind united tablet is peak

[whole holly]

i would say mosskin are underrated too, do you agree

[limpid summit]

In the face of PK and Rad

[stray grove]

The Shrumals are neat

[limpid summit]

I like the Mosskin

Moss Prophet is actually interesting too

[stray grove]

They recognized my goat so I have to like them