sk-lore

[low oracle]

Zote, huh?

[foggy fractal]

scary silksong facts...

[lyric rose]

Has anyone got to measuring the structures of Pharloom?

If anyone ever does that I’d suggest Hornet as a standin for an average human

She’s taller than a typical pilgrim but short enough to go through doors and the like

And since hollow knight’s world is full of bugs (even the birds are bugs) we can’t really say these bugs are small like in our world

[foggy stratus]

We have no clue how tall Hornet is. And iirc a reason the Hornet DLC became Silksong is because the caverns in Hallownest were too small for her.

[lyric rose]

Yeah lol

I just wanna find out how big the Citadel truly is

[near jasper]

like 8.2 bell eaters

if we dont count slab and underworks

[bronze mortar]

like 10 royal waterways

[teal haven]

Help me with the fleamaster minigames

[whole holly]

do you guys think Sea of Sorrows is related to Land of Storms?

[lapis flower]

I wanna say that's absolutely ridiculous. But that surface passage looking almost identical to where the Godseeker hid in her memory means they could be in the same direction

A Sea, Land and Air series of DLC would be awesome. I wonder if there's anything living above the surface

[whole holly]

Alchemist Zylotol, Assistant Zango, Gorb do have vaguely similar heads, there is variation but they still resemble each other, Godseeker's could me related to Alchemist or Great Mind Gorb

Land of Storms have God of thunder and God of rain, i want to think that Sea of Sorrows might be related to them, we even see Thunder in teaser

[lapis flower]

I don't think godseekers head looks anything like theirs?

[whole holly]

i know this is a stretch, but Team Cherry is unpredictable

[whole holly]

Godseeker's Heads are covered because they wear masks, special masks

[lapis flower]

Well that's true haha. All the small patch updates to Hollow Knight makes me hope maybe they'll shadow drop a new lifeblood DLC for it too. I know there's a 0.00991% chance, but i like those odds!!!

[blissful harbor]

i mean we see in cutscenes the crest part is pretty flat
unless their….flesh…orbs, are all flattened under there

[whole holly]

i think so to, i was going to say it, even in Zango and Zylotol there is a variation of head shapes

even in godseekers too

[lapis flower]

I think it's a stretch

[whole holly]

but their roles being alchemist and godseeker, their role requires great mind, something that seems to be part of their recurring theme and gorb too

[whole holly]

i know, i can't deny that, but implications are there

however, i don't think that will be Godseeker's actual place, i think that Pharloom Bay might be in proximity to land of storms

[foggy stratus]

Whole reason Godseekers are seeking gods is because their heads are too empty without something to worship. Literal empty head.

[whole holly]

i don't think that's literal, they say "our mind a sea(of sorrows)"

[solar gale]

https://tenor.com/view/huh-jack-sparrow-salt-javkal-gif-167664285880811395

[limpid summit]

I genuinely can’t see a single similarit

Zylotol Godseekers who knows though

I could see some sort of Land of Storms ref in SoS

[covert night]

they are not similar 💔

also similarities are not a solid proof

[whole holly]

i meant that even in their zylotol's species, their heads vary, as well as for godseekers

[covert night]

i see this theory a lot what's the reason of it

[whole holly]

also i am speculating based on this

[limpid summit]

Thing is the whole wastes looks the same

[covert night]

it could very well be just a reused assets

[limpid summit]

If they wanted to make it extremely similar on purpose why not just have it be that

[covert night]

there are differences too, there is no godseeker mask in the surface unlike land of storms

[whole holly]

it is not reused assets, it is same place recreated with different assets

[whole holly]

yeah, true, i assume that memory of godseeker's mask takes place in different time so current surface doesn't have same monuments and so on

[pale narwhal]

i mean
seas are known to be stormy
if the sea of sorrow is an actual ocean and not just a big lake then it would make sense to have a lot of storms

[whole holly]

we do see storm/thunder/lightning in teaser

[hidden river]

Where does the water for the moss and shellwood and stuff come from

Because above the moss area ist blasted steps who are dried up

[foggy stratus]

No direct sun light means no evaporation. Also its likely from somewhere else in Pharloom.

[hidden river]

Ok thanks and the water coild be there from khanns tower or so

[glacial warren]

The water’s likely retained in the moss, the area itself seems very marshy and high in humidity.

[urban ingot]

I love the beast crest, when the screen turns red, and all the sound effects of angry hornet play as you atack. And when she stands still while using the beast crest bind she has an animation of rapid breathing to show that she's trying to breathe but due to her movement and energy she can't respire rapidly and causes her body to do anaerobic respiration which causes glucose to turn into lactic acid, maybe lactic acid in the hollow knight universe is red, and the red on her weapon is just that acid that deals extra damage, it might also be the esence of adrenaline, like her aura, but considering the large beast she binded to, the adrenaline theory is more likely

[keen vector]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1476778102855041155/1484428681823780874/higuruma-higuruma-hoshi.gif

[deep bay]

https://tenor.com/view/he-made-a-statement-he-made-a-point-point-gif-8473374312122375748

[lone folio]

Beast crest rage lore

[neon hound]

https://tenor.com/view/what-excuse-me-gif-19669281

[idle mesa]

chatgpt tell me why you like beast crest

[sick tinsel]

https://tenor.com/view/hiromi-higuruma-jjk-jujutsu-kaisen-son-higuruma-gif-9036947203690306241

[dusk garnet]

Here's the entire silksong lore:

Granny wanted children

She kidnaps little pharlids

she uses silk to turn them into weavers

you know what I'm not doing this

[humble moat]

Sooo whats the power level of skong bosses compared to hk bosses?

[foggy stratus]

We don't power scale here.

But I'd wager more are probably a tad weaker.

[random aspen]

we do on tuedays

[foggy stratus]

We only power scale on days ending in e.

[humble moat]

Oh : (know a place where I can?

[foggy stratus]

Maybe #hk-general i dunno.

[random aspen]

just go to silksong discussion

[stray grove]

Much weaker generally

The power level in Pharloom is much lower than Hallownest

[tawdry flare]

THEY’RE ALL FRAUDS

[stray grove]

This isn’t even a powerscaling thing it’s actually canon

[humble moat]

Really??

[humble moat]

Whats the source?

[stray grove]

Hallownest. This kingdom is blessed with true Gods. True! All around, the corpses of pretender Gods. But! Not in Hallownest...

This is Godseeker dialogue, basically she’s referring to the fact that Hallownest was home to not one, not two, but FOUR established HBs (with a fifth visiting, a sixth being born during the events of the game, and a potential seventh as well) whereas Pharloom is stated to have only ever had one “Monarch”

All of the aforementioned HBs are also probably stronger than GMS individually, one of the themes of SS is the effects of centralizing power and for that to work GMS has to be a big fish in a small pond

TK is also explicitly stronger than Hornet even before it becomes a HB so it would stand to reason that some of the foes it faces are relative

Like way stronger

[dire lynx]

Unn, White Lady, Pale King, Radiance, Nightmares Heart, Shade Lord, Abyss creature

[tawdry flare]

Who invited Abyss Creature into the conversation

[stray grove]

PK, WL, Unn, Rad are the four established HBs who have territory and history here
NMH is visiting
LoS is born during the game
LBB is debatable

Oh yeah Hornet also beats GMS on her own lmao

Hornet who is much weaker than pre-VH TK

[humble moat]

Los lbb?

[stray grove]

LoS is Lord of Shades, TK after Void Heart

[dire lynx]

shade lord and abyss creature

[stray grove]

LBB is Lifeblood Beast/Abyss Creature

[humble moat]

There's a lifeblood beast?!

[dire lynx]

yeah, in godhome and the lifeblood room in the abyss

[humble moat]

Oh never knew

[stray grove]

It doesn’t do anything it’s just there

People theorize it’s a HB but as I said it’s debatable as to what its relationship with LB even is

[humble moat]

Gms whats that?

[stray grove]

Grand Mother Silk

[humble moat]

Ooh ok

[tawdry flare]

It’s the Thing that Team Cherry thought would be cool to vaguebuild about

[humble moat]

Never asked but what are even gods in pantheon?

[stray grove]

They’re just beings with “godly resonance”

[humble moat]

Godly resonance?

[stray grove]

It’s pretty arbitrary dw about it

Basically just an explanation for the boss rush

[humble moat]

So is it like demi god?

[tawdry flare]

nah

[humble moat]

Also why doesn't the everbloom break when hornet takes damage?

Is it her cloak?

[dire lynx]

its stronger than the ones the knight gets, whether thats because hornet imagines it that way, or the flowers have faded over time is unknown

[neat ether]

is the everbloom the same as the delicate flower that the grey mourner gives to the knight?

[dire lynx]

yes

[neat ether]

I don't know the lore too well

[dire lynx]

it is the same thing

[neat ether]

Then I'm guessing it's because Hornet pulls it out of her memory

[sinful nimbus]

LBB is the dream higher being that's going to be responsible for the infection there's no fighting it

[twin dragon]

lifeblood bum

tc idgaf about the expansion just give me silksong qol

[foggy stratus]

In Sea of Sorrow TC should add a Void Musket. Trust

[twin dragon]

weaver tech

[plain ruin]

Add a Weaver Thermonuclear Bomb to Silksong

Wait this isn’t sk-disc

[blissful harbor]

ok but what if

instead of it being a HB responsible
it’s a HB that’s been overtaken by lifeblood infection

i think it’d be way more interesting if lifeblood is a natural thing and it corrupted a god

[whole holly]

i would actually would like to see if it was AC Beast overtaken by Lifeblood, rather than actual higher being

[blissful harbor]

of course tho star is right

it’s gonna be Rad v3: butterfly edition

[whole holly]

i have question, it might seem dumb but when you think about it , it may be interesting

why aren't Shadow Creepers and other Abyss Lifeforms affected by Act 3 Void Threads, they are adapted to void in environment yes but not actual threads of them that double as tendrils, void threads are so volatile

i assume it is because GMS targets Pharloom instead of abyss

[blissful harbor]

to be back threaded you have to be haunted
and i might be wrong here, but i don’t believe shadow creepers or gloomsacs are haunted

they don’t respond to the needlion like msot of non haunted enemies
like the skrill and imoba

[whole holly]

really, cutscenes presented it as GMS creating new threads that void soaks and turns into void threads, i might be wrong

[blissful harbor]

they would still have to come under the effects of the haunting with the new threads
it’s still the haunting, it’s just being void corrupted

[whole holly]

i also hate that bugs that aren't haunted don't have Needolin, because that sucks if you want Dream Nail replacement which is supposed to be universal, Dream Nail would work on Plasmified Bugs, Abyss Lifeforms and Skrill and imoba too i am sure

[whole holly]

that makes sense

[blissful harbor]

ehhh
theres things the dream nail didn’t work on

or just gave “…”

i feel in most of those cases you’d just get the “…”

[whole holly]

yeah but that was something

[whole holly]

Greyroot and Fayforn would have Dream Nail dialogue i am sure, as well as Skrill, Plasmified bugs and so on

[limpid summit]

For sure

And you can say that the needolin wasn’t meant to be a thought reading tool like the DN and yeah

But why does it translate mottled skarr’s thoughts

It’s inconsistent and not that strong

Moths>>

[whole holly]

truth nuke

[sinful nimbus]

moths were also skilled with rune magic

weavers did NOTHING original

[foggy stratus]

Frauders

[whole holly]

people keep conflating runes and seals, i think those are seals

[sinful nimbus]

what are they sealing

[foggy stratus]

Sealing what? Words onto rocks?

[whole holly]

also Weavers are implied to hone skill of creating runes

[whole holly]

well, yea, it resembles lore tablets in sense of technology

[sinful nimbus]

They're called glyphs by Ellina and are purely decorative so the Weavers are definitely more impressive but I don't believe they're like fundementally different things

And Weavers being the first to make runes is nonsense

[whole holly]

how so?? how is it nonsense, it is implied that weavers arrived to hallownest before infection and left because of it, it could suggest they at least predate sealing radiance

[sinful nimbus]

how does that mean they made runes first

[whole holly]

hornet's view would be more accurate since she is raised by weavers, and knows hallownest history to extent and her educated guess would be more accurate than most

[sinful nimbus]

OK but Hornet doesn't say that

[whole holly]

she asks a rhetorical question

[sinful nimbus]

She says FS was the first to hone the skill of weaving silk into blazing runes

Which is uh considerably different from Weavers being the first to ever create runes

This one's husk held a masterful talent, to weave Silk into blazing runes. Throughout my life, I have seen runes woven for many tasks. Was she the first to hone such skills?

"Such skills" refers to the "masterful talent" which was to "weave Silk into blazing runes"

That's just what the text says

[whole holly]

specifying that her runes are made of silk doesn't inherently support your point

[sinful nimbus]

Well "such skills" actually refers to runes being woven by her family but same difference really

[sinful nimbus]

What?

If Hornet says she was the first to hone the skill of weaving runes she was the first to hone the skill of weaving runes, its not that deep

[whole holly]

it could refer to act of weaving/creating runes in general, if weaver is implied to be first to do it, then she is most likely progenitor of the said skill

[stray grove]

Reading comprehension devil

[sinful nimbus]

It doesn't refer to that because "such skills" means it was something previously in the text which in this case is the previous sentence

Which is about weaving runes with silk

[fading shard]

what

[stray grove]

When the Weavers arrived in Hallownest is literally irrelevant but yes it was obviously pre-infection

[fading shard]

Like yeah they arrived to hallownest before the infection started

[foggy fractal]

whos stronger the reading comprehension devil or the reading comprehension curse

[fading shard]

it 100% was prior to the infection

[stray grove]

https://tenor.com/view/no-limit-to-larp-gif-11577996250524935683

[twin dragon]

watching star and return of the bum argue is the reason why cinema is still alive today

[whole holly]

if there is any evidence of runes that* aren't* silk?

[stray grove]

Who tf is this guy

[twin dragon]

me

who am i supposed to be

[fading shard]

You're literally the same person who says the same thing regarding seals even though we're showcased that other groups have such capabilities as well

[foggy fractal]

Let's Larp...

[fading shard]

including the literal pale king

ancient civilization

grimm

[whole holly]

i would argue that, Hornet is establishing that runes are commonplace in her time. By immediately asking if this Ancient Weaver was the "first," she is connecting the entire modern practice of rune-weaving back to this one person.

[fading shard]

etc

[sinful nimbus]

Why would runes be silk exclusive

[stray grove]

Shamans also have their own runes which is confirmed even in SS

Shamans don’t use silk

That alone undermines this claim

[twin dragon]

Runes are a universal thing

[fading shard]

yeah

[twin dragon]

Kinda like how most civilizations on earth have big people in their mythos

[whole holly]

they used Snare Setter : Trap-setting tool of the Weavers. Lays a Silk rune that ignites when foes come into contact.

Uses shell canisters and the wielder's own Silk.

[stray grove]

Genuinely what the fuck are you on about

[fading shard]

just leave star be

they're like this about the weavers a lot

[sinful nimbus]

Yeah weavers made runes with silk they're spiders who control soul through that medium

[stray grove]

Close enough welcome back PowderedWater

[fading shard]

btw starpengu I hope you're doing well

[whole holly]

you said they don't use silk, they used snare setter which is silk tool

[sinful nimbus]

Why tf are there two stars this is confusing me

[foggy stratus]

Shamans dont have silk for it to use.

[foggy fractal]

well there are a lot of stars out there

[stray grove]

https://tenor.com/view/patrick-patrick-star-patrick-bottle-gif-6605208024845857705

[sinful nimbus]

Yet I shine the brightest

[foggy fractal]

instead of calling you star we have to call you penguin to avoid confusion

sorry

🐧

[whole holly]

Ad Hominem

[twin dragon]

Because you're right at the end of your lifespan, check under your bed more often.

[stray grove]

https://tenor.com/view/higuruma-jujutsu-kaisen-season-3-jjk-jjk-memes-son-gif-16750166370753208425

[foggy fractal]

something about those shining the brightest dying the fastest? Sorry I forgot the saying

[fading shard]

okay starpengu

how are you doing

was what I was asking

but yeah you're right having two stars

in the sme conversation is confusing

[sinful nimbus]

good wbu

[twin dragon]

Nah, star might be a red giant

[stray grove]

Just call the other Star by their actual name

Nika

[foggy fractal]

intresting

[fading shard]

doing fine too :D

[sinful nimbus]

Nubbie would the fraud sun going supernova in 8-3 be tuff

[whole holly]

i assume Silk Runes are main usage of runes and they predate other rune

[twin dragon]

oh you want to make fraud LAGGIER?

[whole holly]

Debating this person is like playing chess with a pigeon. It knocks the pieces over, craps on the board, and flies back to its flock to claim it won.

[sinful nimbus]

Would be way cooler then nostalgiabait slop

[twin dragon]

nostalgiabait?

what

isnt that like

the entire level

[twin dragon]

It is accurate but doesnt make you right

[sinful nimbus]

When I'm in a reusing previous assets near the end of the game to try and get the players reflecting on their entire journey competition and my opponent is an indie dev

[stray grove]

Everyone a hater

[twin dragon]

(ok but the walls spin)

[sinful nimbus]

Well yeah the level is cool

Just needed a better aesthetic

[twin dragon]

the entire aesthetic of the level is not knowing what and where the fuck

and thats why i love it so much

[sinful nimbus]

I know

ts why we had encores to reuse previous layers

[twin dragon]

you wanted my FRAUD to have an aesthetic?

go back to 8-2

encores if they werent slop

[sinful nimbus]

Yeah 8-1 and 8-2 are actually good looking

[twin dragon]

Space mogs

[whole holly]

i would argue that shamans don't use runes, it is hornet binding their power specifically that creates the runes, shamans note that she sucked up power in whirl of silk, Shaman Crest exists in silk-state so there is no Soul-rune that we know of

[twin dragon]

whenever i see a power genuinely my cortisol just spikes to unhealthy levels

i fucking hate powers

[sinful nimbus]

all these levels are truly stunning ❤️‍🩹

[whole holly]

also most of the arguments against my point are strawmans, which are tiring to respond to

[twin dragon]

Who invited the desintegrated loop

and walmart

[sinful nimbus]

The store looks cool lets be fr

[twin dragon]

there are cooler sections

the mirror office one n stuff

[whole holly]

where is this from?

[sinful nimbus]

Ultrakill

[twin dragon]

new silksong dlc

[limpid summit]

What points

[sinful nimbus]

True kinda hard to get a good screenshot though

[twin dragon]

silkshooter mode

[foggy fractal]

I'm gonna ultrakill you! watch out!

[limpid summit]

Nika is this Weavers invented runes again

[twin dragon]

yes

[limpid summit]

Respectfully I think the dialogue shows that FS invented weaving runes, a unique medium of rune creation

[whole holly]

AppleEgg is this weavers didn't invent runes again...

[twin dragon]

what if tc did intend on weavers inventing runes

im gonna ask ari hold on

[foggy fractal]

I'm gonna ask william instead

[whole holly]

is there non-woven runes, even Shaman Crest and it's runes are said to be sucked up in whirl of silk

[twin dragon]

casted runes

[stray grove]

Cast the blade forward and strengthen Silk Skills with powerful runes.
Literally the Shaman crest description, you can see the runes visibly when using silk skills
Regrettably I had expected you to have the common sense to figure out yourself that the Snare Setter was a) not made by the Shamans and b) not used by them directly hence why it doesn’t work as a counterexample but alas

[twin dragon]

pale king, pv

n shit

[stray grove]

We see plenty of runes that aren’t Weaver runes this is not a debate

[whole holly]

Shaman Crest is absorbed in whirl of silk, we only see it's runes when hornet absorbs them as silk crest

[limpid summit]

Shaman Crest isn’t even necessary there are runes (not seals) on the King’s Brand

[whole holly]

no, blade is casted forward, and silk skill are empowered with runes

[twin dragon]

It is also quite interesting seeing that gms' arena when the snare setter is set also is filled with runes, while the base snare setter is quite small, when caretaker roids it with soul the runes couldnt just have popped into existence

[twin dragon]

broddie

casted with soul

[whole holly]

is it said to be a rune anywhere?

[stray grove]

I don’t know what to even say at this point I genuinely could not explain this dialogue to you if I tried

[thorn heath]

https://hollowknight.wiki/w/File:Caelif-and-Fera.png

Could these two be connected to Verdania?
Ik that they're just backer characters, but still... they look pretty similar so maybe?

[twin dragon]

A seal is likely a rune

i think

[twin dragon]

they are green

that's the similarity

[twin dragon]

A seal is likely the same thing as a rune, but with a different name

[stray grove]

Wiki isn’t evidence first and foremost

[twin dragon]

like omds

[whole holly]

AppleEgg disagrees, they don't believe King's Brand is a seal

[stray grove]

No it’s more like seals use runes

Runes can also be used to augment spell effects n shit

[twin dragon]

True actually

[limpid summit]

What

[foggy fractal]

something like all seals are runes but not all runes are seals 🤔

[whole holly]

it is consensus, with people actively more devoted to, i will rely on consensus than this point

[twin dragon]

i wouldnt call PV balls attack seals

[stray grove]

Well the second issue is that those things aren’t mutually exclusive lmao

Runes weren’t even an established thing in HK

[twin dragon]

Kinda not elaborated upon but the shaman crest somehow does yeah

[whole holly]

i never said they are, they can overlap without being same category...

[stray grove]

Moving the goalpost

[limpid summit]

Nika do you think PV’s spells (runes) came from the Weavers

[whole holly]

i answered your argument

[stray grove]

You were the one arguing that seals and runes were different things, now you’re saying they’re the same general thing but not the exact same category

I don’t know what kind of arbitrary definitions you’re using but none of this is supported by in game evidence

[stray grove]

Anyway even if I accept the premise of your new argument basic reading comprehension will tell you runes aren’t a weaver/silk exclusive thing

[whole holly]

AppleEgg believes King's Brand doesn't have seal, they have rune and i have seen no evidence for that and i am trying to communicate with his argument

[stray grove]

No you just don’t understand what AppleEgg is saying

[whole holly]

sounds like an excuse

[stray grove]

It’s obviously not inaccurate to refer to it as a seal of some kind

That doesn’t mean it doesn’t involve runes

[twin dragon]

Arent seals a byproduct of runes

They look pretty similar to me

[stray grove]

Nika apparently doesn’t understand this

[twin dragon]

Runes are soul given shape in some sort of pattern i would define it as such

[whole holly]

your logic is literally ad hominem and "I see a symbol, therefore it's a rune, therefore Weavers didn't invent them."

[twin dragon]

weaver logs are runes

[stray grove]

I don’t think all seals necessarily involve rune magic but it’s not as though they’re two separate categories
Rune magic is also poorly defined

[stray grove]

I literally posted text that explicitly calls something a rune even though it didn’t originate from the Weavers

[twin dragon]

Ad hominem isn't really what you think it is

[stray grove]

Also all of this is based on an incorrect reading of the FS entry

[ember musk]

actualy really interesting theory https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OjLnJPJHrYY

[limpid summit]

Nika there’s no actual evidence that Weavers invented runes you’re reading the entry wrong

Did this send late

Wow

Anyway

[whole holly]

they literally attacked my intelligence with Patrick gifs and other weird gifs

[limpid summit]

The runes here as RotK said come from the crest as a natural Shaman ability

[whole holly]

Can you all provide one quote from the first game where the word 'Rune' is used to describe the King's Brand or the Pure Vessel?

[limpid summit]

This isn’t something Hornet naturally co-opts as a Weaver

[twin dragon]

You didn't describe it as such

Runes weren't defined in the og hk

[stray grove]

Stop begging the question

[limpid summit]

This is like asking us to prove Jinn is compressed

That concept did not exist

[twin dragon]

she is

i was there fym

[limpid summit]

Fair

Runes aren’t even something natural to Weavers Hornet calls it FS’s “talent” so it’s not as if the Shaman runes come from her

[whole holly]

i disagree, i would say hornet adapts shaman teaching to strengthen their silk skill, we see this with shaman charms in first game that strengthens spells, hornet binds their body as crest which shamans describe it " All o'that learning, all o'that strength... sucked up in a whirl of Silk. "

[stray grove]

That quote refers to the process of absorbing the crest

[limpid summit]

Son

[stray grove]

The abilities Hornet gains from crests still reflect the capabilities of the crest bearers

This isn’t that complicated

The “learning”/“strength” (i.e. the runes) still came from the Shamans

[limpid summit]

This one's husk held a masterful talent, to weave Silk into blazing runes. Throughout my life, I have seen runes woven for many tasks. Was she the first to hone such skills (the skills of weaving Silk into runes)?

The skills are the talent to weave Silk

Runes themselves aren’t the skill

[foggy fractal]

idk Hornet was she the first one to hone such skills?

you tell me bud

[stray grove]

Apple just give it up this guy genuinely cannot read lmao

[whole holly]

but we have no other explanation for Jinn's state other than compression, that's not same for King's Brand that could be a seal, term that is similar to brand, mark and so on

[limpid summit]

Don’t be harsh

[stray grove]

There’s no point entertaining it he always does ts

[limpid summit]

PV’s attacks seem to be runes even though they aren’t referred to as such (when would they even have the opportunity to be)

[whole holly]

they keep relying on ad hominems,

[limpid summit]

So was PV trained by the Weavers

[stray grove]

Ad hominem deez nuts

[foggy fractal]

pv trained by pk who was trained by weavers

[whole holly]

i am asking for King's Brand, specifically because you yourself made claim you have no evidence for.

[whole holly]

i mean Pale King did work with weavers

[limpid summit]

Well it’s a brand

Seals don’t blast you with a laser

But I don’t understand

[limpid summit]

What do you think

[whole holly]

i want evidence for this statement/claim

[whole holly]

that's same logic as Pure Vessel is void so therefore he is AC, Pale king experiemented with Void and Silk as well, but PV's runes(whatever you want to call it) doesn't predate First Sinner's Runes

[limpid summit]

Huh???

AC members aren’t void

[whole holly]

this doesn't answer a question is it a seal or a rune, if it is a rune then provide evidence

[limpid summit]

How is this the same logic

[limpid summit]

What is a rune

[twin dragon]

They look very similar and runes can be used to create seals

and most likely are

[whole holly]

you define it, since you are arguing that King's Brand is a rune

[stray grove]

Whether or not KB is a rune is wholly irrelevant this is just whataboutism

[limpid summit]

Nika do you have any evidence that Weavers created runes

The concept of runes

[whole holly]

i know... that's literally not the point, Pure Vessel isn't fully void either, stop being pedantic

[limpid summit]

Alr

[whole holly]

still no evidence for this, i want actual evidence, don't move goalpost, don't change subject, don't respond with question etc

[limpid summit]

Do you know what moving the goalpost is

[foggy fractal]

something about soccer I think

[whole holly]

it was argument from your side, so makes sense you call it irrelevant when i ask for proof

[foggy stratus]

I thought it was football.

[foggy fractal]

maybe idk

[whole holly]

so when is evidence coming?

[limpid summit]

Okay hypothetically if I concede and say KB does not involve runes what do you gain

You have no evidence for the claim you are making

[whole holly]

... i don't want to gain anything? i just want to see evidence? you keep dodging request for evidence, that's automatic concession

[sinful nimbus]

It like visibly uses runes

Just use your eyes man

[limpid summit]

Okay for the purpose of this argument I concede

[foggy fractal]

why so round

[limpid summit]

Now may I see evidence that weavers made runes

[whole holly]

"visuals" are secondary to textual definitions

[sinful nimbus]

What textual definition

[foggy stratus]

Absolutely þe þ, man.

[sinful nimbus]

They're called runes because they're magic runes its a fantasy thing lmao

This is a magic rune right here

[foggy stratus]

Then what's your textual definition? What makes the visuals secondary.

[sinful nimbus]

Like its not like an HK specific word its kinda just a trope at this point

Its a magic glyph made out of the worlds equivalent of mana that's what they all are and weavers did not create this concept

They were the first to use their specific medium for controlling soul to create runes

[whole holly]

Was she the first to hone such skills? is literally rhetorical question, nobody can disprove that, it is heavily implied that weavers honed and pioneered runes

[limpid summit]

Silk runes

[sinful nimbus]

What do you think "Such skills" refers to

[whole holly]

Developers don't write: "Was she the first to hone such skills?" if the answer is "No, and everyone knows it."

[limpid summit]

Runes woven

She was

[sinful nimbus]

The usage of the word "such" means its referring to something already in the text

[limpid summit]

The first to weave silk runes

[whole holly]

general craft of runes

[sinful nimbus]

But runes as a concept isn't what Hornet has already referred to in the text

"such skills" refers to the previous sentence

"I have seen runes woven for many tasks"

[whole holly]

we don't have examples of textually defined as runes predating that weavers anyways, even Shaman Crest's Runes can only be inferred after being absorbed into crest

[foggy fractal]

the devlopers also wrote the slabfly journal entries

[sinful nimbus]

If she's pondering who was the first to use silk to create runes in weaver society she is correct in assuming First Sinner to be the first to hone such skills

[whole holly]

Visuals are secondary because the developers use the same 'glowy symbol' aesthetic for multiple types of magic. The Textual Definition is the only thing that separates them.

[sinful nimbus]

No one is claiming Hornet is wrong she just isn't saying what you think she is saying

Glowing white symbols are almost always the same type of magic

Which Silksong calls runes

[whole holly]

This is a Reductionist Fallacy.

[sinful nimbus]

What?

[limpid summit]

This graceful ruler once possessed skill to rival my own. At her youthful peak, her voice united all Skarr in her service.

Do you take this to mean Karmelita was once casting silk spells

[whole holly]

This is an External Information Fallacy. Game's lore is self-contained. If Team Cherry wanted Runes to be a "generic trope," they wouldn't have avoided the word for the entirety of the first game. By introducing the word "Rune" only when we enter the Weavers' territory, they are literally textually branding that concept as Weaver technology...

[whole holly]

what?

[sinful nimbus]

Bro has the fallacy dictionary open

Anyway the word rune isn't only used in the context of weaver magic as has already been explained above

[limpid summit]

What? It’s just a way to describe soul magic that they didn’t consider using previously

Its a fairly common magical name

[whole holly]

"Throughout my life, I have seen runes woven for many tasks." She is literally talking about the entire practice of rune-craft as she knows it.
By asking if the First Sinner was the first to "hone such skills," she is asking if this person was the origin point of the entire tradition she just described. If the answer was only "she was the first to use silk to do so" the question loses all its weight, plus we don't see confirmed runes to be made from soul

[sinful nimbus]

The word glyph only being used in the context of Hallownest's crown clearly means its a new type of magic

Exclusive to the moths ofc

[sinful nimbus]

Google the definition of woven pretty please

[whole holly]

omg pale king and shamans used cotton instead of silk, i would have known, you are so smart for that

[sinful nimbus]

They didn't weave anything

[twin dragon]

that shit would be neat actually

[sinful nimbus]

They just... made runes

Because they don't make magic silk

[whole holly]

This is literally False Equivalence. "Skill" is an incredibly broad, common noun.... "Rune" is a specific, technical noun in fantasy world-building...

[limpid summit]

She’s talking about runes woven because it doesn’t make sense to refer to any other type of rune in that context
It’s a commentary on the fact that the Hallownest Weavers wove runes and she’s like huh maybe they got it from her
She knows about other uses of Soul (PK, Shamans, Soul Master) but it’s not as if those are worth mentioning

[sinful nimbus]

Therefore "runes woven for many tasks" doesn't refer to all runecrafting just the weavers which is the type of magic Hornet specializes in and also the society she grew up in

[limpid summit]

File names aren’t canon obv but Zi’s thing is called a rune

Just saying

It’s a word TC started using

[twin dragon]

zi is a weaver

its new canon

[limpid summit]

False fly with a rune etched shell. A tortured mix of soul and void is caged within.

Lmfao

[whole holly]

show me non-woven runes that are confirmed to be runes, Shaman Crest is not a valid exception as hornet binds strength into silk and we can't prove that Runes existed as shaman soul-related practice beforehand

[whole holly]

Pale King has Silk Spools in workshop

[limpid summit]

Likely for further study

The Weavers wouldn’t have done the trade deal before PK had even started experimenting with Void

A fly-like construct formed of white shell and a dark liquid interior.

TC is just going back and using rune in certain contexts because they like the word

[sinful nimbus]

Its like its an established fantasy trope that the reader can probably immediately understand through reading the word or something

[limpid summit]

The runes come from the Shaman Crest which is a Shaman?

[whole holly]

how do you know?

[whole holly]

we only see runes after it is binded into silk crest form

[limpid summit]

The weavers gave a non-ally massive reserves of their life force in order to fulfill a risky gambit that would require the eternal sealing of their queen before the non-ally had even produced a hint of results that the powerful deadly substance could be pacified to the smallest extent

[twin dragon]

They are runes that boost spells they must be of shaman make

not to mention hornet herself doesnt know how to make them

[limpid summit]

This is all to support a strange interpretation of one line of dialogue

A crest is a “signifier of a bug’s essence, that invisible yoke born throughout their lifetime”

Shaman runes

[whole holly]

my personal Response "My 'strange interpretation' is literally just reading the rhetorical question on the tablet: 'Was she the first to hone such skills?' Your interpretation requires us to:

Ignore that rhetorical question.

Assume 'Runes' are a generic fantasy trope despite the first game avoiding the word for 5 years.

Ignore that the Shaman describes the process as a 'Whirl of Silk.'

Invent a history where the King had runes before he met the Weavers, despite no text supporting it.
Which one of us is doing more heavy lifting to reach a conclusion?"

[limpid summit]

Anyway we can assume the Kingsmoulds are also etched with runes, visibly the same sort of patterns seen on King’s Brand

So I feel as if I’ve covered all bases

[whole holly]

and there is literally silk spools right there in workshop

[limpid summit]

There’s like a couple sitting off to the side

[whole holly]

clearly PK obtaining Silk Spools and creating wingsmoulds happened in similar time-span

[limpid summit]

Yeah clearly

[whole holly]

so? that's doesn't mean they are irrelevant

[limpid summit]

He could have obtained the silk spools at any time before the second wave of infection, as he moved the palace as is

Which makes much more sense

Why would the Weavers give all their stuff away before the kingdom was saved

[whole holly]

regardless runes on wingsmoulds are silk-runes

[stray grove]

Are you seriously still going on about this

You don’t need to cite every in-universe example of what might possibly be a rune you know

[limpid summit]

-You’re misinterpreting the question. Hornet is asking rhetorically if FS was the first to weave the runes she has seen throughout Hallownest with the Weavers. We’re supposed to acknowledge that, not that she created all runes ever.

-Yeah?

-Yes, the process of binding the Shaman. In context, they are commenting on the fact that a bug’s entire life can be constrained and absorbed that quickly. They aren’t referring to the runes themselves

TC danced around using the term higher caste for actual higher beings and now it’s everywhere

Writing changes

[whole holly]

I'm going on about it because the evidence is consistent. If the only counter-argument is 'the writers changed their minds,' then you've conceded that the current text supports my point.

[whole holly]

If we ignore the specific words the developers choose, we aren't 'solving' the lore, we're literally just overwriting it with our own assumptions.
The game literally asks if she was the first. The game puts silk in the King's workshop. The game has the Shaman describe silk as a 'whirl' that simplifies power. You can call that a 'strange interpretation,' but at least it’s an interpretation based on the actual game text. Relying on 'generic tropes' and 'writing changes' is just a way to ignore the evidence that's staring you in the face.

Silk: Fine thread spun from the soul of its creator. Highly coveted for its remarkable strength and mystical properties. Used to heal wounds, extend life, and weave powerful runes.

we have no mention of act of creating runes other than weaving them

we don't see cast the rune, or construct a rune in game text

[limpid summit]

You seriously think the Cindril “Prove yourself more Weaver than Wyrm” Weavers who had outright escaped the rule of a pale being were going to take another one at its word, supply him with their own life force to fulfill a vague hypothesis about a risky and enigmatic substance, and etch runes themselves in support of the earliest beta tests (based on a unique reading of one line of dialogue)

Would it not be easier to say the soul higher being just etched his own runes

Like really

[whole holly]

Shaman knowledge often strengthens spells we see it contained in charms and their soul imprints but those imprints don't exhibit runes until hornet binds it into silk form

[limpid summit]

Because the medium we see in the game called Silksong is Silk

There doesn’t need to be vast examples of runes that aren’t woven

[finite wind]

What's the topic

[limpid summit]

Though Shaman Crest is one

[foggy fractal]

I would trust pale king he looks like a pretty reasonable guy

[whole holly]

It’s only 'easier' if you ignore the Silk Spools sitting in his workshop. If he could just 'etch his own runes' using soul, why did he have Weaver life-force sitting next to his tools? the 'simplest explanation' must account for all the evidence, not just the evidence you like. The simplest explanation for Silk in a workshop is that he was using it for his work.

[whole holly]

we also see soul, and we see confirmed runes in HK too, but they are in close proximity with Silk.

[limpid summit]

Is this Silk

It’s not a seal

[whole holly]

is that a rune?

[limpid summit]

I think it is

Would you offer an alternative explanation

[foggy fractal]

what kind of rune is this?

[finite wind]

A cool one

Also, the mushroom people have runes too

[whole holly]

i don't think i need to? they can just be technology like glyphs, elina calls moth tablets that

[finite wind]

So I don't think all runes are silk runes

[whole holly]

Actually, there is a need. If you want to prove the Weavers didn't invent runes, you have to find a 'Rune' that has zero connection to them. But every 'Rune' in the series is either in Pharloom (Weaver Kingdom), on a Weaver tablet, or in the workshop of a King who we know traded with the Weavers.
You're trying to argue that the Weavers took a universal concept and just 'made it silk.' I’m arguing that the Silk-weaving process is what creates the Rune. which is backed by a lore tablet asking if she was the first.

[finite wind]

👆

[whole holly]

AppleEgg is stuck in a loop of Circular Logic

[limpid summit]

“You’re trying to argue that the Weavers took a universal concept and just “made it Silk””

Yeah cause they’d never do that right

Dashing through things, homing projectiles

[stray grove]

Dude he literally conceded over an hour ago that runes are just a specific term for that sort of magic when using silk as a medium and that every other instance of it is functionally identical but would technically be called something different like a glyph or whatever
This whole thing has just been waffle

[limpid summit]

“A lore tablet” dude this is FS’s journal entry

Larp

[whole holly]

i forgot about that but that doesn't really address actual logic of argument

[limpid summit]

I just like imagining that PK went to the non-allied Weavers with no work done on Void and they immediately gave him stores of silk and taught the God how to etch runes as Nika suggests

[stray grove]

Give it up man

[limpid summit]

“We created Wingmoulds”

Weaver Hebrew Israelites

[whole holly]

Saying 'they just do the same things' is like saying a painter and a photographer are the same because they both make pictures. They might both produce a 'projectile,' but the Weaver's Rune is a distinct technology that uses Silk as a medium...
You're arguing that the Weavers are just copycats. The game is arguing (through the First Sinner Journal Entry) that they are pioneers. I think I’m going to trust the journal entry over the idea that Team Cherry just 'forgot' the word Rune existed until now.
If you can't find a single 'Rune' in the script that isn't connected to Silk or Weavers, you're just arguing against the dictionary of the game.

[stray grove]

You could have just posted a Patrick gif and refused to engage further

Same effect really

[whole holly]

"you could have used ad hominems, it's easier" says the actual Patrick

[limpid summit]

https://tenor.com/view/spongebob-gif-17255567518830556345

[whole holly]

ad hominem at it again

[finite wind]

💀

[whole holly]

self-projecting proves my point, thanks

[limpid summit]

No this is me realizing that the Weavers created Wingmoulds and wrote all of PK’s tablets

It’s not you

[whole holly]

sarcastic strawmans aren't great argument either

[foggy fractal]

oh yeah is this from the wanderers journal (real) thing?
can't believe tc is gatekeeping lore with money smh!

[limpid summit]

It’s not a strawman this is what you’re implying by reading the dialogue incorrectly

[finite wind]

Hi guys

[limpid summit]

This is an extension of the argument you are making

[stray grove]

https://tenor.com/view/spongebob-patrick-spongebob-patrick-smile-spongebob-patrick-spongebob-patrick-neptune-gif-15553908463759634649

[whole holly]

i am implying that pale king used silk spools in workshop, which seems insane to you

[whole holly]

if it is extension, it is strawman

[limpid summit]

There are silk spools in his workshop yes

There are also Lumaflies in jars

Did he use those

[stray grove]

Those are obviously a light source stop larping

[limpid summit]

That’s a real strawman

[foggy fractal]

w larp

[limpid summit]

Lmao why would he need a light source he glowed

[whole holly]

lumaflies are used to illuminate the room , silk spools are used for room , this is most pedantic argument in this entire channel ever

[limpid summit]

Obviously he was dipping the lumaflies in void

[foggy fractal]

maybe pk just wanted some really silky blankets and pillows

[stray grove]

So true

[limpid summit]

Nika the spools could have been acquired at any point between the creation of White Palace and the beginning of the second wave

[whole holly]

so??? maybe stored void needs to pacified...

[whole holly]

so what? regardless of when they were acquired it is insane to suggest that it wasn't used for Runes in Wingsmoulds shell

[limpid summit]

What makes the most sense from a logical, geopolitical perspective is that he got the spools after the Vessel project and put them in his workshop for whatever reason

I have already explained why it doesn’t make sense for PK to acquire the spools before the project was at a satisfactory point

And the less than amicable relationship was reinforced in Silksong through Red Memory so this isn’t something in HK in a vacuum

[whole holly]

what would whatever reason be??? do we just leave that concluded instead of coming to simplest logical conclusions, you are reaching more than there is to actually reach

[limpid summit]

Idk playing around

There’s hundreds of Wingmoulds in WP and like three spools

[foggy fractal]

its gotta be the blankets and pillows

[whole holly]

In a lore analysis, we look at the evidence present in the room. The Workshop is the birthplace of the Wingsmoulds. The Silk Spools are in the Workshop. The Wingsmoulds have rune-like etchings. The simplest connection one that doesn't require "whatever reasons" is that the materials in the room were used to make the things in the room.

[whole holly]

how much could tiny wingsmould possibly need

[limpid summit]

I don’t see any empty spools

Maybe Hornet also practiced with the Silk in the workshop

[whole holly]

You're inventing a 'whatever reason' for the Silk Spools just to avoid the most obvious answer: that the King used them for his work.

[limpid summit]

Wingmoulds are in her memories of WP after all

Are you saying PK weaves

[whole holly]

empty spools wouldn't conclude anything because there would be no silk to conclude connection between silk and runes, also maybe silk spools were refilled

[whole holly]

Reductio ad Absurdum is insane, does a King have to personally hammer every nail to build a palace? No. He has Kingsmoulds, Wingsmoulds, and a massive labor force. Whether the King personally 'wove' them or he had his Weaver-trained constructs/servants or whoever else do it is irrelevant. The fact remains that the technology (Runes) and the material (Silk) are both present in his private workshop.

[limpid summit]

May I ask you how he made the King’s Pass tablets and the Ancient Basin tablet

[whole holly]

technologies that predate the runes, like glyphs and other techniques

[limpid summit]

Do you think the brand on the door could be called a rune

[whole holly]

hornet, who is a weaver? are you saying PK made her do Rune-weaving? that would support my point and explain why she hates his Father and his rune-etched creations, are you using that logic against me??

[whole holly]

it is called a brand and a mark

[floral quiver]

The silk is important enough that there's a location that has stocks of silk that is implied to be intentionally hidden.

It looks to have been treated like any country would treat state secrets.

You don't treat something unimportant like you do stare secrets.

[whole holly]

i agree with this, Runes and Silk are precious resource, especially for PK's Projects

[limpid summit]

May I offer an alternative explanation that makes sense

Before you get on it for being overcomplicated I would like to say in advance that it isn’t

[whole holly]

if it makes sense and has more evidence than rune is silk woven craft, yes

[whole holly]

Whether he did it himself or hired Weavers to do it in his workshop, the Runes are the result of Weaver technology. You're trying to separate the 'Rune' from the 'Silk,' but the game consistently shows that whenever a 'Rune' is mentioned, Silk is the medium.
I’m sticking to the actual evidence in the room. You’re sticking to 'whatever reasons' and sarcastic questions because you can't explain why a 'Soul King' has a workshop full of Weaver supplies.

[limpid summit]

Nika okay first let me just say that “whenever a rune is mentioned, silk is the medium” isn’t the gotcha you think it is when it comes to Shaman Crest

That is a shaman rune, a shaman technique

Yes it’s a Silk rune but only because Hornet’s medium of Soul is Silk

It doesn’t mean the crest comes from some innate Weaver rune idea

Shamans have runes independently of Weavers, and Hornet casts silk Shaman runes because she casts Silk spells

[whole holly]

You're saying Hornet just transformed a Shaman rune into Silk. But the Shaman’s own reaction contradicts you. They don't see a transformation, they see a simplification that 'sucks up' their learning into a 'whirl of silk.'

If the Shaman had Runes: They would use the word. They don't.

If the King had Runes: He wouldn't need secret Silk caches. He does.

If the Weaver wasn't the First: The lore tablet wouldn't ask if she was. It does.

You’re arguing that the Weavers are just co-opting existing magic. The game is telling us they are pioneering a specific technology that others (like the King and the Shamans) are now utilizing. You're trying to make the Weavers less important to the lore than the text actually makes them.

[limpid summit]

Caretaker: Bound yourself a new nature, aye? And from the shells of our ancestors, no less, all those many who've called these lands their own.
Caretaker: You make it seem so simple-like. All o'that learning, all o'that strength... sucked up in a whirl of Silk.

“Sucked up in a whirl of silk” refers to the absorption of the shaman’s nature

Wdym if the Shamans had runes they would use the word

Why?

The omniscient game UI uses the word

Is that not enough

“All of that learning, all of that strength”, the entire Shaman line and their knowledge is absorbed in a matter of seconds

That’s what they’re commenting on incredulously

I don’t see how this contradicts that the runes originates from Shamans, in fact, they draw attention to the “learning”

I’m not arguing that the Weavers are co-opting existing magic at all

They just found the same thing others did from a different approach

[whole holly]

Shamans don't need to use runes to strengthen their spells , they use charms for that, and they store their knowledge inside it, hornet that binds knowledge into advancing her silk skill with her nature transforming soul imprint into crest that empowers silk skills with runes

[limpid summit]

It’s like how they make seals and so does PK

And AC, etc

[whole holly]

If the Shamans had Runes 'independently,' the Shaman wouldn't be standing there marvelling at how 'simple' you make it look. They are an expert in Soul, but they are a novice in Runecraft.

You say the UI is enough, but the UI is exactly what proves you wrong. The HK1 UI avoids the word 'Rune' for 40+ charms and 160+ journal entries. The Silksong UI introduces it immediately alongside the material Silk.

As the Materium says: Silk is used to weave powerful runes. That isn't a trope; that's a recipe. No Silk, no Weaving, no Rune. You're trying to make the magic generic, but the game is explicitly telling you it's a Weaver Invention.

[limpid summit]

Yes the runes (or knowledge thereof) come from the binding of the crest

Lmao they aren’t talking about you casting spells with Shaman crest when they say how simple you make it look you aren’t reading

[whole holly]

rune is derived from knowledge because of hornet's weaver nature

[limpid summit]

Weavers don’t have runes in their nature

It’s a talent

Why doesn’t she use runes in Sharpdart, Silk Spear etc if the runes come from her and not the shamans whose knowledge she literally binds

[whole holly]

A talent for what? The Materium explicitly says Silk’s nature is used to weave powerful runes. If the material (Silk) comes from the Weaver's body (their nature), and the material's primary function is to weave runes, then Runecraft is inextricably linked to Weaver nature.

[limpid summit]

Silk is used to weave powerful runes yeah

weave

It’s also used to heal wounds so is Soul

[whole holly]

If I absorb your knowledge and turn it into a book, you might be impressed by how fast I wrote it. But if I turn your knowledge into a Rune a word and technology you’ve never used you are impressed by the transformation. which is what impresses shamans

[limpid summit]

I don’t understand your analogy

[foggy stratus]

Or GMS' nature seeing as she's made of the stuff. Speaking of why doesn't Lace weave?

[limpid summit]

You’re needlessly complicating things

Hornet starts the conversation by saying I bound the crest s

She doesn’t cast a spell in front of them

The binding is what they comment on

She isn’t “turning their knowledge into runes”

The runes ARE the knowledge

[whole holly]

lace also doesn't use silk skills or manipulate it

[foggy fractal]

knowledge is power 🤔

[limpid summit]

The teleport slash is a silk skill

Of some sort

[floral quiver]

Lace is spun of silk. That doesnt necessarily mean she can make it.

In fact her being able to make silk would give her an ability to survive on her own, without her Mother, just like the Weavers.

[whole holly]

Even in a land full of Silk, only the Hornet (a Weaver descendant) has the "masterful talent" to manipulate Silk into Runes and Skills. If any bug could do it, Lace would be weaving circles around us.(it doesn't matter if Lace is silk spun since she can't manipulate silk)

[limpid summit]

FS uses silk skills too she blasts you with daggers

[floral quiver]

The Citadel are moderately skilled in runecraft, they just have to use Silk's silk.

[limpid summit]

I think this is a silk skill

As is this

[whole holly]

regardless we only see Shaman Crest Runes after hornet binds it into silk based crest

[limpid summit]

Wdym

[foggy fractal]

its a silk skill because lace is silk and thats a skill?

facsinating...

[limpid summit]

“Hornet has 6 spells but we only see Runes in the one we get from absorbing the knowledge of Snail Shamans”

Nika

[whole holly]

it doesn't manifest as soul-based skill anywhere

[limpid summit]

TK absorbs the shamans and gains their “quality”

[whole holly]

hey, dude, can you stop with strawmans???

you are literally toxic and your arguments have less evidence quite objectively

[floral quiver]

We see a rune on the Silk Spear skill, at least.

[whole holly]

it is silk's quality to be woven into powerful runes

[limpid summit]

Nika

Sorry wait I also forgot Rune Rage lol

That’s my bad

Anyway

[foggy fractal]

rune rage is so mid that its forgotten even here!

😔

[limpid summit]

We see runes in Shaman Crest

Shamans can cast runes

[foggy fractal]

0 runes hit
0 aura
7 silk wasted!

[limpid summit]

What about this might be complicated

[floral quiver]

Also when using Sharpdart

[whole holly]

they use tools they make to hold silk, and GMS actively manipulates them i would say that's unique but still nature dependent, haunting is also Silk manipulation from GMS and Citadel bugs are haunted

[limpid summit]

We bind FS (who can use runes) and get runes
We bind Shamans and get runes

[whole holly]

The Materium Explicitly states Silk is used to weave powerful runes.

what is confusing here?

[whole holly]

If Shamans can cast runes independently, why didn't they give the Knight a 'Rune' in HK? Why did they give him a Charm? It's because in Hallownest, they didn't have the Weaver's 'whirl of silk' mechanism to turn that learning into a Rune. You’re arguing against the literal evolution of the magic system between the two games.

[floral quiver]

We see runes in Shamen Crest because Hornet is using the natural abilities she has to enact her equipped soul.

Just like her Aura is formed into claws when using the Beast Crest, and drills when using the Architect.

[whole holly]

AppleEgg is now just repeating "they cast runes" without any non-Silk evidence.

[floral quiver]

This is a rune formed of silk. It does a specific thing.

[limpid summit]

Why didn’t they give TK Anguished Aura or Flickering Flame

The ‘“whirl of silk” mechanism’ is what they comment on about the binding it’s not about the actual attack

Hornet does not have the “natural ability” to weave runes that is expressly not a natural ability

[whole holly]

because Shamans in hallownest didn't think of it, ever skill in individual, but Runes only exhibit after Hornet binds them

[limpid summit]

The runes come from the crest

[whole holly]

crest is nature...

[limpid summit]

We are literally binding a long dead Shaman

Are you asking why we don’t see them use runes

[whole holly]

they can sense Knight's Spells changing internally, they would be able to sense hornet transforming knowledge to strengthening silk skills with runes

[limpid summit]

But that’s not what they’re talking about??

[twin dragon]

ARE WE STILL ON THIS?

[limpid summit]

Cast the blade forward and strengthen Silk Skills with powerful runes.

Silk Skills are strengthened with powerful runes from the Shamans. Learning and strength

[limpid summit]

I’m off of the PK stuff because it would require a basic geopolitical understanding

This is easier

[twin dragon]

Runes are glyphs specifically

[floral quiver]

And? All of Hornets abilities when using a crest, except the Witch, come from her trained abilities.

She's not learning how to do their magic, she's learning how to use her magic and aura to basically emulate the soul she's bound

[twin dragon]

No, not at all lmfao, that's just lace's dexterity

[twin dragon]

She's emulating them but she still has the memories and power source internally

[limpid summit]

Uh

Those two things aren’t different

[floral quiver]

Yeah, if you look at the sprites individually, those two abilities have runes.

[whole holly]

all o'that strength... sucked up in a whirl of Silk. is hornet turning shaman knowledge into runes, because shamans strengthen soul spells with their knowledge, but when they do it it manifests as charms in first game for a reason

[limpid summit]

I’m not saying the dead shamans are currently weaving runes inside her

Hornet is weaving Silk runes

I am not disputing this

The inherent knowledge of the Shamans provides the basis for this technique

Ergo they know how to create runes

[floral quiver]

No?

[twin dragon]

Though hornet herself naturally doesnt know how to make runes

the knowledge likely comes from the shamans themselves

[limpid summit]

The shaman knowledge is the runes

Come on

[sinful nimbus]

The crest of the shaman being themed around runes is clearly incidental and something Hornet could always do

[whole holly]

Yes, the "learning" is the energy, but the Form it takes depends on the user.

In Hollow Knight, Knight acquires Shaman's Charms.(doesn't matter how it is obtained) Why? Because the Knight isn't a Weaver. They can't "whirl" that learning into Silk.

If Runes were "just knowledge," the Knight would have been using Runes in HK. The fact that the same Shamanic knowledge becomes a Charm for the Knight but a Rune for Hornet proves the Rune is a product of Hornet’s Weaver Nature...

[limpid summit]

The shaman knowledge is knowledge on how to create runes

What are you even saying

Shamans don’t gift charms

[twin dragon]

We dont see hornet using runes anywhere else i think

[whole holly]

strengthen spells

[whole holly]

pedantic, not the point

[sinful nimbus]

Yeah but she could she just does it when binding the crest of the shaman for fun

[twin dragon]

aside from learning abilities

[limpid summit]

You’re saying something incorrect???

[twin dragon]

Any crest, actually, and i think this is some sort of seal or byproduct of binding

[limpid summit]

Not all spells are runes. FS uses non rune daggers. The shamans TK meets just don’t have any rune based spells.

[sinful nimbus]

Why we complaining about pedantry when the last hour has been about whether or not the white magic glyphs that do the same thing can technically be considered runes even though that's just a standard fantasy word for magic glyphs

[whole holly]

but it still doesn't address the actual logic of the argument

[limpid summit]

What does Hornet actually get from Shaman Crest

And if it’s not runes why doesn’t she strengthen all her spells with the runes she can just naturally make

[stray grove]

It’s been like three hours

[twin dragon]

This is kinda a pointless argument as theres evidence to consider runes common knowledge

chat

the king returned

[foggy fractal]

like the pale king?

[twin dragon]

no, this bum

[foggy fractal]

so pale king =/= bum?

[stray grove]

I genuinely don’t know who you are

[foggy fractal]

🤔

[stray grove]

Do we have some kind of history

[whole holly]

AppleEgg's Theory: Shamans have 'Rune knowledge' but just... didn't feel like using it in the first game.

[twin dragon]

Im feeling like hating on a specific person today

im sorry

dark souls changes people

[foggy fractal]

glad I'm not that speccific person

[twin dragon]

you're next.

[foggy fractal]

fuck!

mods help!

[stray grove]

Eh ykw valid

[limpid summit]

Ig weavers didn’t feel like it either

[whole holly]

Saying 'Rune' is just a generic word is like saying 'Electricity' is just a generic word for 'Fire' because they both make light.

[twin dragon]

????

no

false equivalence lmao

[stray grove]

How long are y’all gonna keep this going out of interest

[limpid summit]

I’m not saying shamans as a species have a natural rune affinity at all that is an actual strawman
I’m saying that the shamans in Pharloom have rune knowledge

Anything to the contrary is a genuine misreading/circular logic based on another misreading

[foggy fractal]

what kind of rune is this? 🤔

[near jasper]

Yellow/orange

[foggy fractal]

why so yellow/orange?

wait

infection...

😨

I see

[stray grove]

@limpid summit you could have spent this time doing something more productive like reading lotm but no instead you’re here excruciatingly debating every single example of a potential rune with someone who literally can’t read

[foggy fractal]

whats lotm

[whole holly]

You can call it a "false equivalence" all you want, but I’m the one using the actual Item Descriptions and Hunter's Journal Entry to define the terms. Everyone else is just using "standard fantasy tropes" to overwrite what the game actually says on the screen.

I'll stick with the Materium. It hasn't steered me wrong yet.

[stray grove]

Lord of the mysteries, web novel

[foggy fractal]

I see

[sinful nimbus]

Why'd they choose a name that would get overshadowed by much more famous books are they stupid

[whole holly]

AppleEgg, you’re literally saying Pharloom Shamans have 'Rune knowledge,' but you’re ignoring that the Caretaker Shaman acts like they’ve never seen their own power become 'simple-like' before.

Hallownest Shamans: No Runes. (Fact)

Pharloom Shamans: No Runes until a Weaver 'binds' them. (Fact)

The Materium: Silk weaves Runes. (Fact)

You're trying to give the Shamans credit for the Craft (the Rune) when they only provided the Strength and Knowledge (the Learning). The game is called Silksong for a reason the Silk is the 'Whirl' that formats the world's magic into Runes.

If the Shamans had the 'knowledge' to make Runes, they wouldn't need Hornet's 'Whirl of Silk' to make it happen. They provide the strength, Hornet provides the Rune

quite literally so pedantic

[twin dragon]

Hornet bind crest, hornet gain memories n power, subdoing the creature, hornet gain knowledge of increasing the power of spells through runes specifically

[whole holly]

yet another ad hominem, can it do something else

[twin dragon]

The argument can be made that hornet makes the runes herself but thats one specific thing thats not defining the whole point

[whole holly]

Knight also gains that knowledge that increases powers of spells but in HK it happens through charms because Knight isn't a weaver

[twin dragon]

Why would hornet use runes specifically

Binding and charms arent quite the same

Anyways no i dont want to revisit this argument as it is seemingly everlasting

[whole holly]

because we already see connection with talented and knowledgeable weavers using runes, when hornet's knowledge and natural talent increases, hornet's skills evolve to use runes

[sinful nimbus]

but not with any other crest

[whole holly]

they both contain knowledge of shamans, though, both Shaman Stone and Shaman Crest

[whole holly]

none of other crest provide knowledge of strengthening silk skills?

[whole holly]

If the "Shaman Knowledge" alone created the Rune, the Knight would have had Runes. Since he didn't, the Rune must be the result of Hornet processing that knowledge through her Weaver biology.

[limpid summit]

Hallownest Shamans don’t attack you
Neither do Pharloom Shamans
Silk is used to weave Runes, yeah. It’s also used to heal wounds. So is raw Soul. That’s not indicative of it being exclusive to Silk

Not all shaman spells are Rune based just like not all Weaver spells are

I’m not saying Hallownest shamans possess rune capabilities they likely don’t

But like saying we don’t see it from them or Pharloom shamans is just nothing it’s not part of any argument

[whole holly]

This is irrelevant to the origin of the shaman knowledge. Whether they attack or not doesn't change what they give you, and they manifest differently on hornet and knight, both Shaman Stone and Shaman Crest contain knowledge of shamans

[floral quiver]

Nearly all her powerful attacks use runes except for thread storm

That's how they do what they do.

The rune that she forms when doing Cross Stitch for example.

[limpid summit]

Evidence that this is a rune?

And if it is, why is it worth mentioning in Shaman Crest specifically

If she uses powerful runes normally

[floral quiver]

I was intending to reply to a different post and the reply went away while trying to past the gif.

[whole holly]

In lore-hunting, absence of evidence is evidence of intent. Team Cherry wrote a whole game without focus of the the word "Rune." They then wrote a game where "Rune" is everywhere and tied to the material "Silk." To say "well, they might have had it anyway" is headcanon; to say "they didn't have it until the Weavers arrived" is Textual Analysis.

[whole holly]

You're now arguing that Pharloom Shamans do have them, but the only time we see those Runes is when Hornet (a Weaver) binds them using Silk (the Rune-weaving material).

[limpid summit]

We don’t see the Pharloom shamans fight. Don’t be disingenuous

I’m not asserting that they definitely have them (though like, come on) I’m saying that obviously we see the runes in a silk medium because Hornet is the one we see using them

[whole holly]

dude, It’s not disingenuous to rely on the evidence we have. We see the Caretaker Shaman's reaction to the binding. They are an expert in their craft, yet they describe the resulting Silk-bound power as 'simple-like' and a 'new nature.' If they were already using Runecraft, it wouldn't be a 'new nature' or a surprise it would just be their Tuesday afternoon.

[whole holly]

You are arguing that Shamans have a hidden capability that the game never mentions, never shows, and that the Materium (the game's dictionary) explicitly attributes to Silk Weaving.

[floral quiver]

That's what Runes are. Silk formed into shapes in order to get an outcome.

The Choir Clappers use a rune for one of their heavy attacks.

[limpid summit]

You gotta be kidding

It’s the nature of the binding they’re referring to. This is obvious. They’re talking about how their ancestors knowledge across lifetimes was absorbed in one fell swoop

[whole holly]

We don't need to see them fight to know what their magic looks like. We see the results of their magic when Hornet binds it. The result is a Rune, but only because it was 'sucked up in a whirl of Silk.' The Silk is the transformative variable

[limpid summit]

The runes themselves aren’t what is new to them

[whole holly]

If Shamans had independent Rune knowledge, the Pale King wouldn't have had to 'covet' Weaver Silk to make his Seals. He could have just asked his Shamans. He didn't, because Runes require Silk.

[limpid summit]

It’s the fact that you bound their ancestor

[floral quiver]

The Clapper using a rune.

[limpid summit]

No it’s not? You’re actually making stuff up

[whole holly]

The word "simple-like" refers to the result, not the speed. Soul magic is notoriously "burdened" and complex (think of the snail shamans' distorted forms and the "weight" of soul). Hornet takes that heavy, ancestral burden and, through the Whirl of Silk, formats it into a "simple" Rune.

[twin dragon]

Just like the shamans dont know about the void in the original hk, obviously the shamans are different

[limpid summit]

The whirl of silk is about the binding process that’s what is crazy

[whole holly]

or it could be timespan between games that allow shaman community to progress? what is your point?

[twin dragon]

That doesnt help your point they couldve developed runes later

[whole holly]

that's hypothetical, though, what's your point?

[whole holly]

"Simple-like" is literally a specific observation about efficiency and complexity. The Shaman is watching lifetimes of "learning and strength" (which they know to be heavy and complex) be refined into a "simple" Silk-based Crest. That is an observation of knowledge being processed into Runecraft, not just an emotional reaction to ancestral binding.

[whole holly]

how so? you literally don't respond to facts

[whole holly]

@limpid summit you ignore these facts, like you are factually wrong

[limpid summit]

Caretaker: Bound yourself a new nature, aye? And from the shells of our ancestors, no less, all those many who've called these lands their own.
Caretaker: You make it seem so simple-like. All o'that learning, all o'that strength... sucked up in a whirl of Silk.

The dialogue is a comment on Hornet’s power to absorb the knowledge and the shaman’s own nature so quickly. The runes don’t come from her.

[whole holly]

but your can't deny that outcome changes because of hornet's nature

[whole holly]

you ignore evidence provided

AppleEgg, you’re literally saying Pharloom Shamans have 'Rune knowledge,' but you’re ignoring that the Caretaker Shaman acts like they’ve never seen their own power become 'simple-like' before.

Hallownest Shamans: No Runes. (Fact)

Pharloom Shamans: No Runes until a Weaver 'binds' them. (Fact)

The Materium: Silk weaves Runes. (Fact)

You're trying to give the Shamans credit for the Craft (the Rune) when they only provided the Strength and Knowledge (the Learning). The game is called Silksong for a reason the Silk is the 'Whirl' that formats the world's magic into Runes.

If the Shamans had the 'knowledge' to make Runes, they wouldn't need Hornet's 'Whirl of Silk' to make it happen. They provide the strength, Hornet provides the Rune

[limpid summit]

What evidence?

That the NPCs don’t attack us?

[whole holly]

that's very disingenuous of you

[limpid summit]

It’s not

There’s no point in mentioning that the snail shamans don’t use runes

Against us

Really

[whole holly]

AppleEgg, you are now using a Red Herring (the "NPCs don't attack" point) to avoid addressing the Direct Textual Evidence (the Materium and the Caretaker’s dialogue).

[limpid summit]

That’s not what a red herring is at all why am I still here

Are you putting my arguments into chatgpt

Silk being used to weave runes as mentioned in materium doesn’t mean it’s the origin of all runes ever

[whole holly]

interpretation of "simple-like" as just "fast" doesn't hold up at all, dude please

[limpid summit]

You can’t pretend you have evidence if your dialogue doesn’t support your point

[limpid summit]

“All that knowledge all that learning” and Hornet just absorbs it

[fading shard]

yo apple egg

good seeing you

[whole holly]

there is rhetorical question asked to suggest it, in First Sinner's journal entry

[limpid summit]

“You make it seem so simple to learn the runes that we spent ages learning”

[foggy fractal]

🍎 🥚

🤔

[limpid summit]

Hi abhiker

[fading shard]

I won't erally join in the debate as I know it'd drain a lot of time

but I just wanted to say I wish you a great and splendid day

[whole holly]

AppleEgg, you're arguing that Shamans have a hidden power they never use, never mention, and that the game's Materium explicitly gives to someone else...

[whole holly]

they never mention runes, you are literally providing false quotes

[limpid summit]

The games materium says silk is used to heal wounds. Focus does that too!

[whole holly]

so?

[limpid summit]

Did the weavers teach vessels in the womb

[whole holly]

strawman

[floral quiver]

There is when Hornets whole thing is using her skills and knowledge, supplemented by the binded knowledge, to emulate them as close as she can.

The Shamen Crest enhances her Silk Skills because the Shaman she bound was both powerful enough and knowledgable enough to give hornet the ability to enhance her runecraft as long as she's wearing the crest.

Not because the Shamans somehow know runecraft, but because the Shaman crest gives her the power and smarts to basically make better runes on the fly.

Hornet knows runes, the Shaman she bound is powerful and wise, thus for as long as they are at the forefront, Hornet is powerful and wise.

[limpid summit]

The materium is not indicative of runes’ origins

Duh

I’m not even gonna argue against that

[fading shard]

can we at at least agree when it comes to glyphs and seals it's not weaver specific

[floral quiver]

It is not no. It is explicitly a teachable skill

[fading shard]

and that beings such as the pale king, ancient civilization, grimm troupe are capable of doing so without weaver knowledge

[whole holly]

who implied that, though?? no body was arguing that

[floral quiver]

After being taught in the case of the King, yes.

[limpid summit]

Convergent technique evolution happens. AC learned Seals as did PK, and Weavers as well. (This is just Soul seals) it’s not ridiculous that runes evolved differently in different ways. Silk is literally only ever attributed to woven runes

[foggy fractal]

we need new material guys go discuss that one wanderer's journal page

[fading shard]

this is what I was talking about

[whole holly]

Yes, the outcome is the same, but the mechanism is distinct, you can't make similar argument for runes since runes are rather less abstract concept that healing, if you refuse to understand that you are being disingenuous

[whole holly]

we don't see mention of non-woven runes, weaving is intrinsic part of runes, as game's literal text suggests

[fading shard]

again what is it with you thinking he got taught seals by the weavers???

[floral quiver]

The King takes the runecraft he learned and transfers it to stone, as he lacks the ability to produce silk.

Crude, but serviceable for his machines.

[fading shard]

I can at least acknowledge the idea with runes

but seals come on

[whole holly]

we literally see silk spools in workshop, this is undeniable

[floral quiver]

Because the only prototype of a seal we see is deep in Weaver country.

[limpid summit]

Okay but he can produce infinite soul

[floral quiver]

It's mentioned in Hornet's Journal entries about his robots.

[limpid summit]

And Silk is just soul in a different way

[whole holly]

well, yes

[limpid summit]

What’s the difference

Why couldn’t he make runes by his very nature

[foggy stratus]

Its possible he knew seal craft before the Weavers but when their silk came about he started using that since it was more potent than normal soul.

[limpid summit]

Pale King is described as blazing and so are runes

[whole holly]

same reason he can't start haunting??

[fading shard]

okay but seals are like shown to be things a few good few groups are capable of

[whole holly]

i would argue

[whole holly]

well, true, but i assume silk makes it really really easier, it is possible he knew it before with king's brand seal, but i doubt he could use runes at all

[foggy stratus]

Argue what? Finish your sentences, man.

[limpid summit]

Cast the blade forward and strengthen Silk Skills with powerful runes.

This genuinely is not worth mentioning if silk skills are already runes or empowered by them

[floral quiver]

The difference is that silk is very easily shaped even by novices in runecraft.

Pure soul is extremely difficult to shape, such that experiments on it were banned outright.

[whole holly]

i think that

[whole holly]

why not?

[limpid summit]

Strengthen runes with runes

[foggy stratus]

Think what???

[whole holly]

and only resulted in failures in soul sanctum

[floral quiver]

Because if he could easily form soul into runes, he wouldn't need to form them from stone.

[whole holly]

i believe, in my personal opinion that

[foggy stratus]

Seriously what do you mean???

[whole holly]

how is that difficult to conceptualize?

[whole holly]

i actually broadly agree with you

[limpid summit]

It’s simply redundant

[limpid summit]

Runes can be etched

[foggy stratus]

Oh. Ok.

[floral quiver]

Form a rune, then form a different rune that increases the output of the first rune. Dirt simple

[limpid summit]

Thats a waste of UI space lmao why would you say that

[whole holly]

it is same basic principle as Soul Spells being upgrades by Shamans and player making it stronger, it is more soul + shadow, same with silk skills being rune + more rune

[floral quiver]

The shapes, yes. But then you need soul running along it.

[whole holly]

UI space? i don't think that's biggest concern of Team Cherry

[limpid summit]

All o'that learning, all o'that strength... sucked up in a whirl of Silk.

Does this not sound like the gradual adoption of a technique

(Runes)

[limpid summit]

Which PK has an infinite supply of

[floral quiver]

Runes aren't just magic sigils. If you carved a Rune into something it wouldn't do anything without soul.

[whole holly]

i mean with Shaman Stone it manifests differently as well with same basic concept, it is silk twist to it

[jolly nova]

Silksong is not a game its is a simulation of bugs life

[midnight reef]

What's funny is that the Silk Rune effects are more a leftover from when the Shamans Crest was the Weaver Crest

[floral quiver]

Yes, and if he could shape his soul, he wouldn't need to etch.

The constructs of the Citadel use runes of silk, shaped directly with no medium guiding their form. The King's constructs require a guide, the etchings because he can't just shape a part of his soul and put it into his constructs.

[limpid summit]

Evidence?

[whole holly]

it's not a game–it's a story we were part of whole time

[limpid summit]

He can shape soul and write perpetual messages and seals

[whole holly]

"to channel soul into thread is a rare skill" seamstress says something like this

not all Pale Beings can do it, just because they are Pale

[limpid summit]

Yes

And

[whole holly]

otherwise Palestag would be weaving runes at us

[foggy stratus]

It is in Pharloom. Hallownest is not Pharloom. She is not in nor from nor near Hallownest.

[whole holly]

it is still generally rare, there is no evidence of PK or WL creating silk? it is redundant to ask why

[limpid summit]

Anyway the Shamans’ knowledge in Pharloom is Runes I don’t see what else it could be

And Hornet replicates those in Silk form

[whole holly]

it is knowledge and learning in their words

[whole holly]

anyways i disproved that

[floral quiver]

By the way runes work in two related sets of machines.

The Citadel does not need to etch a runic shape because they can just change silk to be the shape of the runic array they want.

If the King could do so as well, he wouldn't need to etch the runic arrays into his constructs because he could just shape them directly and remove a time wasting, labor intensive task from his manufacturing process.

[limpid summit]

With what

A misreading of the crest dialogue?

[whole holly]

evidence you ignored

[whole holly]

strawman..

[limpid summit]

The “learning and strength” are the runes that empower her silk skills

[floral quiver]

What?

No?

[limpid summit]

Literally the runes strengthen the skills

[whole holly]

this is evidence, i had to put this evidence in chat 2 times...

[limpid summit]

Same exact wording uses

What is the knowledge?

[whole holly]

not at all, Shaman Stone literally also has those without having Runes

[fading shard]

are y'all sure you guys want to just keep arguing about this

apple egg you know gadget and nika will be stubborn about this forever

[limpid summit]

Yes different sources of knowledge and power wow

[fading shard]

regarding the weavers

[whole holly]

AppleEgg seems to be

[limpid summit]

What else is new

[whole holly]

Said to contain the knowledge of past generations of shaman.

Increases the power of spells, dealing more damage to foes.

[fading shard]

y'all maybe want to make a break

[floral quiver]

Intelligence. The ability to study and work with magic.

[whole holly]

so what??? they both are said to empower spells generally, that's what their knowledge and strength focused on

[limpid summit]

Hornet learns new applications of magic (runes) and strengthens her own spells with them

[floral quiver]

The Shamans are highly capable magicians, their intelligence lets hornet take her already known runes and make them better.

[whole holly]

it is general shaman knowledge

[solar gale]

Totally unrelated to the current discussion but if hornet knew how fluffy the radiance was she would've pulled a traitor lord and willingly took the infection

[floral quiver]

She knew runes from almost her first step in Pharloom.

Almost very one of her skills uses runes.

[limpid summit]

Her runes aren’t being reinforced. The wording “strengthen Silk Skills with powerful runes” implies the introduction of runic power

Kirb don’t worry I’m doing this between sets

I have the time

[floral quiver]

Okay. Are you assuming that Hornet had no knowledge of runecraft before she bound the shaman?

[foggy fractal]

sets as in 💪 🦵 ?

[limpid summit]

Yes Andy

[foggy fractal]

W appleegg

[stray grove]

I’m not here for that, this is a pointless convo that’s gone on for way too long but since you seem to have no interest in stopping I’ll respect it and play devil’s advocate
Silk Skills includes Rune Rage

[limpid summit]

W andy

I’m gonna ignore you

[foggy fractal]

working the brain and the muscles

[stray grove]

So does Rune Rage not use Runes

[foggy fractal]

tuff!

[fading shard]

it does

[stray grove]

I don’t see why Runes couldn’t stack tbh

[fading shard]

rune x rune equals more rune

[limpid summit]

You know what

[stray grove]

They’re magical effects that augment spells in different ways

[foggy fractal]

but no more rage?

[limpid summit]

You’re right

[fading shard]

btw uhh kirb I just realized it's you

[limpid summit]

Pale King got the Silk in his workshop even before he started making Wingmoulds

[foggy fractal]

let's talk about ac lore tablet runes and mushroom runes

[fading shard]

the nickname had me fooled

[foggy fractal]

are those runes

[limpid summit]

Weavers taught him everything he knew about Void manipulation

[stray grove]

Dude quit larping

This has nothing to do with what I said

[foggy fractal]

w larp

[limpid summit]

Larping the definition of larp

[stray grove]

Runes are like Charms you can have multiple active simultaneously and more complex spells and seals probably use multiple in their construction to begin with

Silk Skills only having a maximum of one rune effect applied to them is something you made up

[foggy fractal]

no limit to the larp!

[stray grove]

It’s not Metamagic

[floral quiver]

Silk skills have "The Rune that actually does the thing" and "The rune that enhances the rune that actually does the thing"

[whole holly]

i am glad you joined our side, side of truth

[stray grove]

Whatever you say man

[whole holly]

whatever you say, my man

[stray grove]

Gasp

[limber socket]

gojo solos

[foggy fractal]

no pale king does

smh

[whole holly]

who??

[foggy fractal]

do we even play the game??

[stray grove]

It’s Blue Judas