sk-lore

[twin dragon]

twin

ambiguity the king of

uh

not knowing what the fuck

[idle mesa]

have yall still been at it

[twin dragon]

happened at the CONCLUSION

of the game

[idle mesa]

ARE YALL ON THE ENDING STILL

[twin dragon]

yes

[floral quiver]

Could not matter less

[idle mesa]

ask tc atp

[frosty gate]

You can't make THK ambiguous

[floral quiver]

Why? That would ruin the fun

[twin dragon]

it does matter as thk just loses it's arc if its etv

[twin dragon]

You can as uh

[frosty gate]

I WOULD IF THEY STILL DID AMA

[twin dragon]

tc wants you to make it up to your interpretation

[idle mesa]

lmao

[spark valve]

which
is why the ambiguous ending
doesn't
have it

[twin dragon]

you agree it's ambiguous?

[spark valve]

obviously

[twin dragon]

jesus fucking thank you i thought i was being crazy

[floral quiver]

Like, if we were given a right and true answer then it'd be boring

[twin dragon]

no

since

[frosty gate]

There's no reason to not show THK other than TC fucking with us lmao

[twin dragon]

eithers its a narratively bad ending

[floral quiver]

Nothing to get into knife fights about

[twin dragon]

or a narratively good ending

[twin dragon]

yeah they do that

all the time

coral gorge

oooh where have you been

coral gorge

[frosty gate]

Cut Content isn't fucking with us

It just got cut

[twin dragon]

yeah

it couldve perfectly been in the game

and it got cut

[frosty gate]

This would be saying "Oooh it could be anything" despite being so dumb that THK isn't in the frame with the siblings

[twin dragon]

thats fucking with us man

[near jasper]

I feel like "I remain a daughter of Hallownest. And the void below all things, that darkness I will fear no longer." Doesnt work very well when the void fucked up hallownest in etv

[twin dragon]

and the "this one... the dark shall not take"

since she doesn't see tk's carcass in etv

[frosty gate]

Now that's amibiguous

We don't know what happened to Hallownest after ETV

[twin dragon]

most likely destroyed as

tk killed the godseeker for the funzies

[frosty gate]

Yeah but why would TK/Void Being destroy Hallownest? Pharloom being destroyed is a different even from what happens to Hallownest

[foggy fractal]

I mean if the knight can seep all the way back into the abyss from black egg in dnm I don't see why they wouldn't be able to do so in etv

[frosty gate]

If the Knight can control itself enough in SotV to protect Hornet, there's no reason to believe it would destroy all of Hallownest for no reason

[lone folio]

Or the good ol "Well the delicate flower could of teleported shade lord somewhere instead of killing him" which is an argument that gives me brain damage

[twin dragon]

therefore its not etv

[twin dragon]

deadass

[near jasper]

Its weird how little the citadel logo is seen in the exhaust organ

[frosty gate]

Something we all agree with

[frosty gate]

... Why?

I don't see how that's relevant to what I said

[twin dragon]

cope

[frosty gate]

I'm getting to you

[twin dragon]

who's supposed to see it

[twin dragon]

not really

i just made a bs statement

for the love of the game

[near jasper]

Idk man

[frosty gate]

Real Apostle of Hate statement

[near jasper]

The exhaust organ area is weird

Like the stiltkin who found every crack in bilewater to hide in just never found the exhaust organ to prevent it from sewageing at them

[floral quiver]

(Relatively) Secret bosses and their areas are like that

[near jasper]

How did a flea get there every entrance is locked

[foggy fractal]

z axis probably

[twin dragon]

noclip

[foggy fractal]

w hacks

[frosty gate]

It just took the maintanance elevator from above

[near jasper]

Why is the lore tablet on the organ unreadable

[frosty gate]

Which one

[floral quiver]

The oval on the organ im assuming

[near jasper]

Ye

[frosty gate]

Can't remember which honestly

You mean this?

[near jasper]

Yeah

[frosty gate]

I mean it is far from us

And

Its probably just a partiture

Or some words like "You will be here forever and we hope are miserable" type shit

[near jasper]

Phantom's bench is slightly off center, this is a reference to team cherry being rage baiters

[frosty gate]

I fucking hate you so much I hadn't seen that

[floral quiver]

Huh it is

Yeah thats weird when you notice it

Like, kinda spooky

[frosty gate]

You can't even say its the perspective because its perfectly behind us

[floral quiver]

Phantom just likes to sit on one edge of the seat

Like a little weirdo

[frosty gate]

Wtv, I love Phantom and if I ever see William or Ari, whoever is at fault for doing her dirty, I'm biting their head off

[foggy fractal]

don't worry if its perspective once we move to the left it becomes centered

trust

TRUST.

[near jasper]

What is the actual in universe thing that triggers a memory sequence when you bind something

Is binding weavers that are alive the only thing that can do that

[edgy nebula]

you also get a similar sequence when you acquire a ailk heart

[near jasper]

Yeah

I dont know how that works ngl

[edgy nebula]

just speculation but maybe the silk in their bodies holds their memories and thats why??

[near jasper]

How does first sinner get a memory sequence but not any other weaver mummy

[twin dragon]

it does

actually

as silk does hold out essence

or

it makes the bugs sing out their mind ig

[whole holly]

maybe Soul can hold memories, Soul can form imprints(Crests) from lived experiences after all

i kinda lean towards both Soul and Essence being interconnected and thus together interacting with each other

i also forgot what else i was going to say, but i had good point i promise

[near jasper]

If widow and first sinner can get a memory sequence gms and phantom can

[whole holly]

overall it makes sense why typical Higher Beings are related to Essence and Soul somehow, and why Lord of Shades is outlier

[edgy nebula]

we dont even bind phantom

hornet just learns cross stitch for some reason

[near jasper]

Hornet guessed how to do it

And killed the only person that actually knew it properly

[plain ruin]

Phantom uses it constantly during the fight, Hornet just learned through observation

[gentle aspen]

I mean, Hornet had a similar ability prior and she saw phantom’s bum spamming it

[stray fog]

https://youtu.be/hDKpzFHeLcE

[twin dragon]

gms has them

i wish they kept the widow lobotomy

no reason to NOT keep it

I mean

silk hearts ig

if you bind gms you get the ending soo

[near jasper]

Lowkey why the fuck are servitors and normal pilgrims in that sprite sheet

[near jasper]

Phantom is clearly a bee

[dark rune]

how possible is it that the snail shamans teleported themselves away during the spell?

it seems suggested that they were burned up during it, but they don't seem the sacrificial type to me

[whole holly]

they have their shell, their bodies are gone with soul particles left

[dark rune]

do we know if they can be separated from their shells tho?

[whole holly]

does anyone think we will see Garmond's village in sea of souls?

[twin dragon]

it could be the one in the surface

[whole holly]

we don't know everything, every assumption is speculation pretty much, they do leave soul particles shamans are attuned to soul

[dark rune]

i hope we see shakra's tribe personally

[dark rune]

the soul particles may be just because it's a spell and spell requires soul

[twin dragon]

or, yk, they have just been vaporized with soul

[whole holly]

i am skeptical about that, nameless town seems different, since Garmond's village was specifically lost to haunting, while Nameless town residents were lured down

[dark rune]

im thinking it came from the hearts

[twin dragon]

I guess

[twin dragon]

their own spell with the hearts

[whole holly]

shamans are attuned to soul, i am not making up this tbh it says it when you dream nail whispering root in ancestral mound

[dark rune]

probably found through elegy of the deeping shakra's master

[whole holly]

we just don't know what it means, Weavers also tune to Fayforn and Godseeker's to Gods

[whole holly]

honestly, it would be interesting as well, i agree both Shakra and Garmond should get more lore if given opportunity

[dark rune]

elegy of the deep has much potential for expansion

[whole holly]

this is literally so true, we only use it 4 times... how much content did Dream Nail get? besides dialogue? it was much much more

[dark rune]

depending on how ambitious tc wants to be, my biggest hope is that they make a way to go back in time to prime pharloom

[whole holly]

team cherry needs to make equal amounts of memory bosses, possibly related through lifeblood and weird magical things and so on, there are opportunities for it

[whole holly]

if they do, i somewhat think it may be a glimpse

[dark rune]

im talking entirety of pharloom

before gms

instead of doing elegy of the deep to things, wed go back in time and go to the different locations instead

[whole holly]

i mean yeah but i think if we get it it will be scattered across different characters

[whole holly]

go back in time? interesting who knows how team cherry will try to implement it

[dark rune]

i have no idea how theyd work it in but good thing being creative is their job and not mine

[whole holly]

yeah but going back in time seems unnecessary when memories are already existing concept, we already have memory that does pretty much that.

[dark rune]

im just thinking like itd allow them to put the whole coral area back in and have verdania and most importantly you could go back after you did the main objective

[whole holly]

i am sure they can implement that with memories as well

we will pretty much be traveling in time

[dark rune]

repeatability is the main issue with memories

because of the content being so large

(cough cough verdania and coral area)

in hollow knight its not an issue bc its just bosses and those are in godhome

[whole holly]

i am sure Boss Rush DLC can partially implement it too

[dark rune]

maybe

another (maybe even less likely) thing im hoping for is hornet going to hallownest

[whole holly]

i really liked Verdania, much more than Coral Tower

[whole holly]

hallownest memories would be better like pale court or something, Hallownest would be unrecognizable in it's current state with lifeblood aberrations, time passed and so on

[dark rune]

because of the passing of time, things would be eroded which would solve the issue of hornet being too big

[whole holly]

i just don't think there is purpose, outside of memories

[dark rune]

and yeah itd be cool to see if new civilizations had sprung up or taken over

[whole holly]

most likely Mantis Tribe spreading

[dark rune]

probably

[whole holly]

and few other bugs

[dark rune]

deepnest now bilewatered

[whole holly]

not that cool tbh

[dark rune]

or wait

the godhome ending seems to be the cannon one

so the effects of whatever happened would be present

[whole holly]

all endings are canon

[dark rune]

shade lord takeover?

[dark rune]

they said that a long time ago

probably before act 3 ending was worked out

[whole holly]

i don't think leaning towards other ending is wise

[whole holly]

i hope they confirm if their stance changed

[dark rune]

the knight seems to wield all the shades under his control and it flashes the shade lord's face

[whole holly]

flashing between DNM and EtV, yeah

[dark rune]

sealed siblings is almost impossible to be cannon bc of silksong

[whole holly]

that kind of de-confirms Hollow Knight ending... most likely

[whole holly]

yeah that too

[dark rune]

side note: it's interesting that the white lady is still alive during silksong

[whole holly]

maybe they will come up with explanation, or silksong just takes place where DNM and EtV happens and that's why all endings are canon silksong only ties in with two and there is no canon ending regardless

[whole holly]

or is she?

[dark rune]

i think she has to be to interact with hornet in the red memory

[candid linden]

do we even know how long apart the stores take place?

[whole holly]

oh, yeah, maybe

[floral quiver]

Well she is a goddess. Not as flashy as Radiance or Silk but still

[candid linden]

crust king khan is dead and we went into his memory

[frank dove]

I always wondered if that was real her or not, she has a conversation with present-day hornet, but she is still a manifestation of hornet's memory

[dark rune]

yeah but nothing has happened to her

[candid linden]

and fought him

[frank dove]

Well she kinda interacts with vespa as well

[plain gazelle]

It can just be that the memory of her is self aware, higher beings do be having weird dream realm powers

[frank dove]

And those wingmoulds or wtv

[dark rune]

yeah thats kinda what i meant

shes aware of the situation

[whole holly]

what about Unn... her presence was barely felt, if she is higher being, shouldn't she recover or functional immortality/long lifespan exclusive to Pale Beings and Higher Beings actually need to be sustained somehow?

[plain gazelle]

Also it's hard to imagine there's much of a time gap between the games since hornet doesn't really refer to any status quo of the interim

[dark rune]

i think hornet has aged about 200+ years since hollow knight

200-500

[frank dove]

No evidence

[dark rune]

it's how it feels, though.

[frank dove]

It could be argued it feels like 0

[dark rune]

just my speculation

[frank dove]

We didn't play as her before

[whole holly]

anybody care to comment?

[dark rune]

idk bc pk died

[floral quiver]

Why?

Genuinely curious

[frank dove]

Yeah we see pk die as well of time

[whole holly]

we don't know how we died

[plain gazelle]

I mean, hornet refers to standing guard over a dying kingdom, to seeing gods fall, to seeing the spread of infections (all events of the first game or earlier) but nothing about rebuilding a kingdom or whatever, so it doesn't seem like much time has passed

[whole holly]

we aren't sure of that, suicide and void are suggested explanations as well

[frank dove]

Oh?

Where

[whole holly]

in community?...

[frank dove]

Where in community

[lone folio]

I'm on team regrets (like basically void but not really)

[frank dove]

Oh suggested explanations

[whole holly]

somewhere

[frank dove]

Nvm

[dark rune]

oh right some actual more substantial evidence, hornet gets called "Old One" and hornet says shakra has lived a mere fraction of her lifespan

[frank dove]

Wait what did you edit that message from

[whole holly]

me too, kinda

[lone folio]

(but also related to void... Man I love the concept of regrets)

[whole holly]

i added suggested explanations soon after yea

[frank dove]

Well she has been around since before dreamers fell asleep

[floral quiver]

Well yeah. Even in Hollow Knight, she was old as heck.

[frank dove]

So like all of hallownest's fall

[frank dove]

I didn't see edit mb

[floral quiver]

And the eons of corpsehood

[frank dove]

Yes

I feel like if she is aware she shouldn't be guarding a dying/dead kingdom, she would have left

[dark rune]

on top of all this, hornet just seems more matured in general

[frank dove]

I see big maturity from her first fight to black egg temple though

Idk we don't have real evidence

All we can do is hope from dlc

[dark rune]

she acts that way at the first fight because shes dismissive of every vessel

i just realized, hornet never visited the white lady 😢

[whole holly]

none of non-Pale Higher Beings we know of are functionally immortal, they can fade or wane or cease to exist if their lives aren't prolonged, Radiance needed to be remembered which is only death that matters, Unn's power waned when she called out mosskin and they couldn't hear her voice and Nightmare's Heart needs ritual to be prolonged, none of those suggest immortality, which seems to be case for Pale Beings instead(Pale King is weird exception which isn't even commented or elaborated on)

[floral quiver]

Well yeah. They're all untrained threats to what remains of Hallownestm

[frank dove]

In the time of hk story

She was mostly raised by white lady though

[dark rune]

and since then

[frank dove]

How do you know

[dark rune]

the conversation in red memory seems like it wouldve happened initially had they met again in the real world

[frank dove]

We still don't know the memory was them actually 'meeting'

White lady is pretty strong if she can talk and control herself in the memories of other people

[dark rune]

higher beings are strong in general

[frank dove]

I feel like you are stretching it tho

[dark rune]

hm, we dont know much about the Roots

[whole holly]

Roots? as in several

[dark rune]

the type of higher being the white lady is

[frank dove]

Yes I feel like that is also a very likely dlc option

[floral quiver]

Pale King dying kinda put the kabash to true immortality. extremely long lived, lifetimes upon lifetimes but not truely immortal.

[frank dove]

And grayroot

Likely zote

[whole holly]

i though you meant another

[dark rune]

like how pk is a Wyrm

the white lady is a Root

[frank dove]

Strong evidence to zote being grayroot's child

Maybe he looks like vessel bc they are both children of a root

[whole holly]

greyroot is never stated to belong to some species, twisted bug is described as ashen vine

[frank dove]

Grayroot has similar eyes and clothing to white lady

Zote's sword is made of shellwood, he says never trust your mother, his name is gray prince

I feel like that's some pretty good evidence

[whole holly]

i mean, i personally don't doubt that Greyroot is a Root but some believe they may belong to similar species rather than same species

[frank dove]

Zoteboat in sea of sorrow

[whole holly]

i feel like Team Cherry made this lore connection as Joke

[frank dove]

I think zote is a jokey character that can have a relavant lore connection

[whole holly]

i mean yea, but there seems to be a cause

[floral quiver]

That's both almost probably coincidence and also shockingly "huh. That's spookily prescient"

[whole holly]

ehh

[frank dove]

Yeah ikr

[floral quiver]

Like, it's almost certainly wrong but... huh. 😆

[foggy stratus]

His name is just Zote. Grey Prince is one of many titles Bretta just made up.

[whole holly]

is father a lord fool too?

[floral quiver]

Huh?

[whole holly]

is lord fool father of the zote too?

[floral quiver]

Oooh

Probably not

[lone folio]

Ok but then who's the father

[whole holly]

like White Savior

[whole holly]

blackwyrm or lord fool

[dark rune]

a couple times we have seen things that give the ability to see the "state of the world", and it seems only amplified in higher beings

[lone folio]

ah obviously

Why didn't I think of that

[dark rune]

the white lady's dialogue suggests she knows there is a void problem in pharloom

[frank dove]

Idk, could be parasite type thing but vessels are different bc wyrm or smtn

[dark rune]

zote the mighty

[frank dove]

White lady + blackwyrm = gray 🤯

[frank dove]

Bro is his own father

He's so cool for that

[dark rune]

hes like chuck norris

but better

[frank dove]

I'ma do better than both of them combined one day

[dark rune]

when zote the mighty did a pushup, he didnt push the world down, the world pushed itself up for him

zote the mighty made the land that the hospital he was born in stands on

[lone folio]

But he has a precept about father's so he has a father

[floral quiver]

Hornet going from Pale Court white to her red cloak is a good indicator of her relative omniscience

[dark rune]

yes true

[lone folio]

When he wanted to take a breath everyone held their breath as to not ruin the experience

[dark rune]

when zote the mighty and chuck norris had a staring contest, zote the mighty closed chuck norris's eyes for him

[whole holly]

do you guys think hallownest entering a stasis delayed arrival for Grimm Troupe?

[dark rune]

?

[whole holly]

do you think Hallownest entering period of stasis where Radiance was sealed also delayed arrival of Grimm Troupe that feeds of dead civilizations

[plain gazelle]

Depends on how the arrival is actually supposed to work. Presumably they don't rely on people with dream nails running across corpses of their troupe and lighting the beacon. Probably the troupe member was supposed to light it themselves but died before they could, which is what delayed them

[whole holly]

that is interesting also the fact that Dream Nailing him released Nightmare Essence

[whole holly]

okay what about Lifeblood, do you think it helped or harmed lifeblood? or do we not have enough info

[floral quiver]

Not enough info

[plain gazelle]

Imo lifeblood probably needs active seeding to really take off, based off what we see. So hollownest's stasis slowed it in the sense there was no one around lucid enough to become another Joni

[floral quiver]

And stasis could be metaphorical rather than some literal magical stasis.

[dark rune]

i have to wonder if a grimm will show up in pharloom

[plain gazelle]

yeah I interpret stasis to more mean a stalemate where pale king is gone but radiance is partially contained so nothing really happens

[whole holly]

It means Infection not happening for while

[whole holly]

Yeah

[floral quiver]

Yeah

[dark rune]

if one does, it could offer insight to how long it has been since hollow knight

[floral quiver]

But that wouldn't affect lifeblood because it's not literally making Hallownest, like, freeze in time or something

[whole holly]

I would argue Radiance would try not to let their puppets be taken over by lifeblood so there would be active avoidance in infected bugs and pale king worshippers

[plain gazelle]

yeah I mean I'm not sure radiance has that much direct control over people but at the very least when they're already base instinct zombies filled with orange goo they aren't really tempted by the blue goo drug

[dark rune]

different topic, but if hornet's description is to be believed, no knight could ever be truly hollow under any circumstance

"barbed forms it chooses"

[dark rune]

moral of the story everyone should be like flick the fixer

[floral quiver]

Radiance can't assume direct control, but she can very much command her thralls to do things by yelling in their heads

There's a few dream nail dialogues where she does exactly that

[dark rune]

imagine having monomon in your head constantly yelling
-OF-ABSENCE-THIR-ABUNDANCE-SHELL-OUTER-O-INNER-
PLACE-IN-ABSENCE-THIR-VOID-LIQUID-SUBSTANCE-O-
WEAVE-ABSENCE-INNER-O-SHELL-OUTER-THIR-MATER
PEER-CH-VOID-VESSEL-ABSENCE-ALL-OUTER-CONTAIN-

[dark rune]

like myla?

[floral quiver]

Mhm

Radiance was gunning for Knight hard during that encounter

[dark rune]

burger 😌

[craggy smelt]

the closest thing to 'direct control' Radiance ever displays is towards the very end of the Hollow Knight battle

and she's really bad at it

she just makes them flop around and squirt out infection juice

otherwise, she just compels the infected to violence using their own abilities

[floral quiver]

Well yeah.

Thats what I said

[lunar wing]

do you think hornet enjoys playing sport in her free time, or naa

[near jasper]

Yes

[marble oasis]

That’s different because THK isn’t infected

She’s actively marionetting its body the whole fight

[finite wind]

no?

[craggy smelt]

THK is absolutely infected
and no, they're attacking with all of their own abilities, just like any other infected - you see the same skills as Pure Vessel, just stronger

[finite wind]

thk uses his own attacks

yeah what he said

[craggy smelt]

Fratute is right

[near jasper]

Thk is infected

Do you think radiance wanted to crack its skull on purpose or it was the infection

[craggy smelt]

people get the wrong idea about THK, thinking they aren't infected and it's just the Radiance inside them
but it's both - they're infected, AND the Radiance is inside them

[finite wind]

it could also be thk doing itself

and considering the tone of the music, I think it's thk fighting himself

[marble oasis]

1. we see her exert direct control when she throws it around like a ragdoll, something that only happens here
2. THK is able to resist her movements and stab itself, which it couldn’t do if it was Infected

[craggy smelt]

1. yes, I addressed that as the only time Radiance has any control, and as I noted she's really bad at it - nothing like the precision movements THK and other infected show
2. yes, the Infected can resist the Radiance to some degree - we see this with Myla, who ignores Radiance's commands to kill TK, and we see it mentioned in the Slobbering Husk entry, where it mentions a struggle against the infection

Infected bugs are eventually reduced to mindless husks who can't struggle, but before they reach that state they can resist the infection's compulsions to a degree
this causes the infection to get worse and they'll lose the struggle eventually, but futile isn't the same as impossible

THK just isn't at the 'completely mindless husk' state yet

[narrow horizon]

THK also isn't any common bug, so it's fair to assume that it has a better ability to resist the infection

[marble oasis]

Myla, who isn’t fully Infected yet?

[narrow horizon]

Still infected

[marble oasis]

Not infected enough to attack

But supposedly THK is

At which point you can’t say no to Radiance any more

Once you’re Infected it’s wraps

[narrow horizon]

[craggy smelt]

you're either infected or you're not - when you first get infected, symptoms aren't as obvious
Myla is actually infected before you even first meet her, it just gets more obvious as time progresses
the infection gets worse over time, eventually overtaking you completely and turning you into a mindless husk
before then, you can resist

[marble oasis]

No, before then you’re not Infected

You’re just getting Radiance signals

[foggy fractal]

ggs 😔

[near jasper]

Thk being infected is very recent, its only properly getting infected by the time the intro comes around

[narrow horizon]

Just because i only have stage 2 cancer doesn't mean i don't have cancer (used as an example or demonstration, i do not have any form of cancer that i know of) 💀

[marble oasis]

You’re right in fact every disease is like every other disease

It’s more like TB

[craggy smelt]

once you succumb to Radiance's temptations, you are infected
it gets worse from there, but the progression is gradual, until you reach 'mindless husk' stage
THK gives every indication of being almost but not quite as that stage

[marble oasis]

we have no idea how long it took between radiance breaking out and the Knight returning, the Knight got the call when radiance broke out but it still had to come back to Hallownest

[near jasper]

If its in the same cutscene im going to assume theyre relatively close

[craggy smelt]

yeah, I don't know about THK being infected recently - pretty sure it was ages ago, it led to a 'second wave' infection that finally ended Hallownest
what's recent is that they're reaching the end of things and are about to succumb completely

[near jasper]

What I said but smarter

Wait why are we in the silksong channel for this

[narrow horizon]

[craggy smelt]

[sinful nimbus]

If being infected is having your mind enslaved and THK's mind isn't enslaved its not infected its really not that deep

[open elbow]

في احد يسولف عربي غيري

[near jasper]

Yeah

[sinful nimbus]

Likewise we don't say BV is infected because its just being puppeted around even if it displays technique with its weapon (as a result of essence imprints)

[open elbow]

الحمد الله 🙃

[craggy smelt]

being infected means gradually losing your mind until its completely lost
THK hasn't lost it completely just yet

[sinful nimbus]

You can say both they're both infected if you want to draw the line somewhere else but there is a distinction to be made

[marble oasis]

There is a “gradation” of symptoms but the stages are very clear

No physical symptoms - you can still fight back

Infected cysts - it’s wraps buddy

[sinful nimbus]

How do you lose your mind

[near jasper]

Radiance

[sinful nimbus]

You don't retain free will, there's not a single infected that really resists like THK does especially at that physical stage of deterioration

You don't see any slobbering husks begin to repeatedly punch themselves

[craggy smelt]

we see the progression of symptoms, both physical and mental, with Myla:
when you first meet her, she's infected and mentions not needing to sleep and that the crystals are talking to her - physical and mental symptoms
then her symptoms become apparent - she gets glowing orange eyes and Radiance starts exerting her will, but she resists it and doesn't become violent
later myla succumbs completely and becomes a violent husk, like the others, with maybe just a tiny bit of herself left (that last plaintive wail)

cysts are a result of advanced infection, possibly an indication of active resistance, or past resistance given that Moss Prophet has cysts but is totally on board with the infection
if you resist the infection, the effects worsen because Radiance increases her efforts to subdue you, which is what the slobbering husk entry describes
the fact that there's a struggle at all shows that being infected isn't instant mind-control, but a gradual progression

[marble oasis]

Okay, so we agree that the stage at which you become violent is the point where fighting back becomes impossible, yes?

And cysts represent a point even further beyond that?

[craggy smelt]

no, the stage at which you can't fight back is the mindless husk stage, where your personality is completely gone
some bugs reach this point without developing cysts

Moss Prophet has cysts but isn't evidently a mindless husk - they may have resisted in the past to develop cysts, but are now completely deluded by the infection

[sinful nimbus]

Myla doesn't resist it in any meaningful capacity

She's just unresponsive to Rad's orders that's a whole lot different from actively resisting her physically puppeting your body

[craggy smelt]

she refrains from killing you when Rad is screaming at her to kill you - she wants to keep doing her own thing, mining and singing
and that could just indicate that her infection hasn't progressed far enough to completely overwrite her own will

[marble oasis]

I fail to appreciate the difference between mindless husk and violent husk

[craggy smelt]

violence doesn't entail being a husk - not every enemy that is infected and aggressive is an undead husk

[sinful nimbus]

Yak do you think Broken Vessel is infected in the same way as other husks

That's the same distinction

[near jasper]

Why are we talking about this in the silksong channel

[finite wind]

shut up this is cool

[craggy smelt]

BV is a weird case since they're reanimated by other infected things, like the Watcher Knights

I'm not sure how puppeted either one is

but I do think that BV has got some essence in there from the vessel/pale child they once were

[sinful nimbus]

I agree

[craggy smelt]

they and Watcher Knights seem to use their own natural abilities

[marble oasis]

Please explain further

[craggy smelt]

a majority of Infected in-game are still alive, and not all of them have been reduced to mindless instinctive behavior yet
‘Husk’ enemies are typically described in the Hunter’s Journal as the ‘remains of a bug, animated by a strange force.’
not all enemies are described this way though - animalistic bugs etc.
and guys like Mosskin and Fools and Mantis Traitors are certainly infected, but they aren't described as reanimated husks and seem a bit more together mentall

[sinful nimbus]

When people say THK/BV/WK aren't infected they're really trying to say there's a distinction between what's going on there and with other husks which is pedantic 90% of the time but is important in some contexts like whether Rad can assume control of infected bugs

[craggy smelt]

to the extent that THK is an unusual infection case, it's that Radiance was forced into their mind against her will, rather than just going in by choice like every other case
and she's stuck in there

[marble oasis]

The fact that Myla, who was Infected alive, is indistinguishable from the Husk Miners makes me doubt this

It’s a species thing

[sinful nimbus]

Its also being physically moved around against its will though

That's different from its will being broken

And that's because of the unusual circumstances you mentioned

[craggy smelt]

myla becoming like them indicates the full progression of the infection - she's become a mindless instinctive husk
although there may be a teensy bit left still, going by DND

[craggy smelt]

or its compelled to violent action it wouldn't otherwise undertake, just like many Infected
it isn't completely mindless yet though, hence it can fight back for brief moments against the Radiance's muderous compulsions, like how Myla resists the same compulsions, though THK is further along than Myla is at that point
the full-on puppetry happens at the end of the fight, and like I mentioned Rad's pretty crap at it

[final badge]

You can dream nail her to see she still there but suffering from the raince control like being a puppet on strings

[craggy smelt]

i wish they kept THK's dnd

it's mostly Radiance, with just a bit of THK

blarg

[marble oasis]

Makes no sense

We can’t infiltrate the mind

[sinful nimbus]

The DND where Rad states TK is pure 🥀

[marble oasis]

I think that probably WOULD be its dialogue, if we could read it

[craggy smelt]

would have made things too obvious

instead i have to argue my shit

[near jasper]

Do you think loddie's tribe is where the straight pins came from?

And thats why theyre really never used by any enemy in all if pharloom

[finite wind]

The craws:

[craggy smelt]

silksong lore? yuck

[foggy stratus]

The pins were in the prison he sets up shop in.

[near jasper]

Im considering the threefold different because of how we see it in a different shape in our inventory

[finite wind]

Yeah no if anything the craws invented the pins

[craggy smelt]

craws seem like the type to scavenge

[finite wind]

Well they scavenged a shit ton of pins

They even use them to hold rosaries

[craggy smelt]

i like the theory that their crawhome used to be a stronghold for the pinstress order, hence all the pins and balloons

[near jasper]

"Rag-winged adult crawbug bearing a scavenged pin." In tall craw journal entry

[craggy smelt]

I'm a genius~!

[finite wind]

Wow

[limpid summit]

Or Pinstress is a craw

She caws

[finite wind]

How could a journal entry be wrong

[craggy smelt]

some unholy union twixt crawbug and stilkin

[near jasper]

Yeah if you want a weapon to throw at people from far id say you need a lot of them

[floral quiver]

I say yes.

Don't know what, but Hornet feels sporty.

Like, if she was in some silly high school AU she'd be ths ace on at least one school sports team if not multiple. 🙂

[near jasper]

Could a being like eva be used as a vessel for the infection

[floral quiver]

Can she Dream?

[craggy smelt]

she freaks out when you approach with lifeblood, she's probably vulnerable

[near jasper]

True

[craggy smelt]

tempt her with a life outside the cocoon

woof, that makes me sad

[floral quiver]

Yes, but lifeblood is a physical thing.

The Infection is one of Dreams. If she can't dream how would she get infected?

[near jasper]

Actually any silk made being would probably take on imprints of the soul of its creator to form its mind nvm

[craggy smelt]

she sings to the needolin, I figure that's a pretty reliable indicator
probably a lot of overlap with dream nail/needolin targets

would someone like the Architect be vulnerable

that'd be a pretty interesting case

could a mechanical being get infected and produce infection goo, even with an inorganic form

I say yes

[floral quiver]

It does have a soul

[near jasper]

Prob

The cogwork bugs do have silk strands when you needolin

[near jasper]

Bell beast

[floral quiver]

Haunted! Heading straight to Silk, those. 🙂

[near jasper]

Theres a lot more bugs that have no needolin for seemingly no reason than dream nail

[craggy smelt]

yeah, i know that shadow creepers have no needolin dialogue, but they are infectable and have dnd, even if it's just '...'

[near jasper]

Fayforn has no needolin

Skynx has no needolin

[limpid summit]

Yeah but so do like

The snail shamans

[near jasper]

Greyroot has no needolin

[limpid summit]

Eva probably couldn’t be used as a vessel

Real question is if Hornet or another Weaver could

Real answer is no

[near jasper]

2 literal plants have needolin dialogue

[finite wind]

Hunting, duh

[limpid summit]

Void insides are important otherwise she just blows you up

[near jasper]

I dont know how

[craggy smelt]

silk present in beings might be what makes them visible to the needolin, especially in the case of beasts or feral creatures

maybe not everything with dnd can be needolined, but everything that can be needolined would have dnd?

[floral quiver]

Dnd?

[near jasper]

Dream nail dialogue

[limpid summit]

Yeah for sure

I would say even like Greyroot would have dnd

[floral quiver]

Aaah.

I'm not sure on that.

Theyre not dreaming.

[limpid summit]

Maybe she would recognize that you’re in there

But the dream nail seems more powerful

[near jasper]

Why do void tendrils react to the needolin more than bell beast

[limpid summit]

Bell beast probably canonically has needolin dialogue but doesn’t so you don’t confuse it with beastling call

[craggy smelt]

bell beast got no silk

[floral quiver]

They're being puppeted, but not through their dreams, but much more physically.

The reason Dreamnail works is because the infected are technically asleep, even the long dead ones

[craggy smelt]

I like the idea that the Void is hostile to music just like how it's hostile to light
maybe a strong enough song would subdue it, just like bright light

[craggy smelt]

the dream nail doesn't require the target to be asleep and literally dreaming, it works on NPCs that are awake
'dreams' is kind've a catch-all term for essence/mind-stuff

[near jasper]

Why are some enemies allowed to just speak plainly in needolin instead of singing

[floral quiver]

Example?

[near jasper]

Outside "team cherry got lazy"

[limpid summit]

Most NPCs just hear you playing music and decide to sing

[near jasper]

Wraith

[limpid summit]

To survive in the HK world you gotta be a little crazy like that

[floral quiver]

No?

Hornet is manipulating the silk in their bodies, which is why they lock up outside memories

[craggy smelt]

now I want to see dream nail dialogue for all silksong enemies and needolin dialogue for all hollow knight enemies

[limpid summit]

Some bugs don’t have silk in their bodies

They still sing

[floral quiver]

Vanishingly few do.

[limpid summit]

Yes

Regardless

[floral quiver]

Like, I can count them on my hand even

[midnight reef]

I mean, I think that the Needolin and Dream Nail would produce effectivly the same dialouge out've both games enemies

[limpid summit]

The fact that you can count more than one is relevant

[midnight reef]

Not just TC TCing, just with how they work, pulling from the same thing in the end, no?

Just different mediums to see it

[limpid summit]

Yeah pretty much

Same sort of universal translator

Non-haunted bugs probably get a bit more agency in what they can sing

Compared to the DN which just lays your thoughts bare

[floral quiver]

It's basically just Hornet. Everyone else is eating food infused with Silk.

Now bugs like Shakra have less than native Pharloom folks, but you cant really survive on Pharloom's fare without eating stuff infused with silk

[near jasper]

Wait a minute

[limpid summit]

Yeah but the needolin isn’t playing their strings forcing them to sing if they aren’t haunted

The silk is inert

[near jasper]

Does this unused needolin say soul is "pale essence" or am I understanding it wrong

[floral quiver]

Could be read that way, yeah

[limpid summit]

Yeah

Check on computer it would probably be that

[near jasper]

Thank god team cherry cut this It would drive every theorist insane

[finite wind]

Where is this from

[near jasper]

Needolin in ruined chapel

[floral quiver]

Why? Because Pale Beings would be less special?

[near jasper]

From the cut text silksong page

In the wiki

[near jasper]

1. Paleness and soul get a confirmed relationship
2. Every bug now has pale essence
3. Essence is already kind of a weird thing to theorize

[floral quiver]

Pale Beings effectively "just" being creatures with a massive excess of Soul, rather than mythology type gods would be neat.

At least personally.

[near jasper]

Ok the cut text is really weird ngl how did some of these things even happen in development

[floral quiver]

Like, Silk doesnt do miraculous things, she just manipulates Soul on a grand scale.

The Radiance more abstractly manipulates soul in the form of dreams.

While the Pale King doesnt really do mass soul manipulation at all unlike his metaphorical cousins.

[near jasper]

Isnt radiance not pale

[near jasper]

Team cherry already was in the middle of steel soul development when they chose that needolin should ignore speech quirks apparently?

And vog has dialogue for no maps on act 3 which means the trails end requirement came later

[floral quiver]

I'm almost certain Radiance would be considered Pale, if Silk is Pale.

[near jasper]

Idk shes pretty yellowed

[craggy smelt]

off-pale being

Radiance isn't explicitly stated to be pale anywhere, but I wouldn't be at all surprised if she was
there's a case to be made

[floral quiver]

"Pale" isn't a literal color in this sense.

It's a categorization.

[limpid summit]

Idk about speech quirks but driftlin NDD is stylized

[near jasper]

Wdym

[limpid summit]

Oh Grindle’s NDD takes his speech quirks

It’s inconsistent I guess

Maybe Hornet plays it slightly differently to translate plainly

[grave stream]

How did TK slash away the void tendrils in TE when he has no nail

did he bite

[near jasper]

Te?

[grave stream]

yes i know it's an it i call it a he

[foggy stratus]

TK has its long Void Tendrils like it used back in DNM.

[grave stream]

true ending

oh yeah

i forgot lol

[near jasper]

Why is grindle the only person allowed a speech quirk in needolin did he steal that too

[floral quiver]

I like that blades are focuses for Soul.

Like, Hornet doesn't cut or pierce with her Needle, rather she uses it as a focus to cut and pierce with her Soul.

[floral quiver]

What others lack speech quirks?

[near jasper]

Styx

All the cogwork bugs that stutter

[limpid summit]

I think the ss comes from the actual noise he makes

We might be translating his native language like with mottled Skarr

[grave stream]

also where is Pharloom compared to Hallownest
All we know for sure is that the Abyss stretches between both

[floral quiver]

Unknown

[near jasper]

Its at least 1 stag trip away

[grave stream]

like a guess

[floral quiver]

Far

[near jasper]

8 bell eaters away from hallownest

[grave stream]

how long was the bell eater i calculated?

50ft?

so pharloom is 400ft away

js walk over there ig

[near jasper]

Damn mr mushroom fast af for a fungus

[grave stream]

yeah

i could try and get an estimate

[near jasper]

Wait I think I noticed a tiny retcon

[grave stream]

count the frames and distances moved

[floral quiver]

Like, I'm assuming around a few weeks to a few months travel on foot

[near jasper]

Mr mushroom says he came to pharloom because of hornets actions

But he already left hallownest when we finished his questline there

Where the fuck was he going

[grave stream]

wherever quirrel went idk

he went to another kingdom i beleive

[floral quiver]

Mr Mushroom is weird and 4th wall-y

[near jasper]

How did the mushroom he exists from even grow in pharloom

[grave stream]

mr mushroom is a lesbian

[floral quiver]

Isnt Quirrel very dead?

Or do you mean before Hollow Knight?

[grave stream]

before

[floral quiver]

Ah

[grave stream]

yes he is SO dead

[near jasper]

Like fungal wastes has dead plant matter for them to thrive since its near greenpath but the pharloom ones are just coming out of rocks in a beach

[grave stream]

cause he was only in the wastelands on the trek back to hallownest i beleive

i don't think he stayed that long

[floral quiver]

I would find it funny if Quirrel never actually went anywhere and he had effectively left originally right before game atart, immediately got turned around and attacked by Hornet. Guy never actually went anywhere. 🙂

[grave stream]

he spent (most)? of his life outside

beginning and end of his life were in hallownest

[near jasper]

Yk sherma will now have to sentence a Pilgrim to eternal bilewater to replace phantom now that they cant keep the sewer system in check anymore

[grave stream]

Sherma is a biblically accurate angel and i can not lie
He made it past the judges because of his divinity
Pantheon of Pharloom final boss

[near jasper]

No cost too great

[floral quiver]

He's sinless.

Less divinity, more perfect liturgy

[grave stream]

who says not both?

[near jasper]

Last judge's door only has a single osha violation in not being side hinged

[grave stream]

why was THAT what you were taking from that area lore-wise

[near jasper]

This is a reference to the citadel having incredible work ethics

[grave stream]

yeah

instead of occupational safety and health administration it's
the optional safety and health administration

[floral quiver]

Because I like Sherma being just a genuinely faithful pilgrim. He's not inherently special. Anyone could do what Sherma does, he's just the only one in a long time who has. Because he's faithful and truely believes in his doctrine and liturgy.

[grave stream]

i just think it would be really, really funny if he was the final, FINAL boss of silksong

[near jasper]

The judges are actually probably still doing their job perfectly without caring about the haunting

[grave stream]

yeah

they're still populous too

it's not like they're extinct

theyre the teeny judges

[near jasper]

Most sins seem to absolved on death in the citadel religion so makes sense they dont kill the haunted

[floral quiver]

Honestly, for all their many faults, not doing what they say they have a Holy mission to do isn't something you can pin on the Citadel.

They take their doctrine and liturgy very seriously

Too seriously in cases.

[near jasper]

Its weird canonically the stiltkin mastered the bilewater territory to prevent anyone from getting in

And just never found the exhaust organ

The John pollution

[grave stream]

if the organ is so exhausted then stop smoking

problem solved

[floral quiver]

Note that half of Bilewater was Citadel territory.

You can actively see when Citadel territory stops and Stiltkin territory begins when wandering Bilewater

[near jasper]

True

But like not a single person found the mists or exhaust organ so long that theyre fully caved in is weird

[grave stream]

they weren't smart enough to play the needolin

[floral quiver]

And the water to Bilewater was originally clean in the earliest days of the Citadel.

The Weavers entombed one of their own to keep it clean

Then mechanization happened

And the water stopped being clean

[near jasper]

Its weird that the craws have a weaver spire But the entire citadel has none

[grave stream]

craw rhymes with shaw bro

duh

[near jasper]

[floral quiver]

Well yeah. The "Citadel" part of the map is comparatively new. The oldest part of the Citadel proper is probably the Underworks.

Course it probably wasnt the Underworks at that time.

[near jasper]

Yknow I feel like it wouldve been a good idea for the weavers to say that more than a single person should be working to control the entire sewer system when they passed down the citadel ownership

[floral quiver]

The sewer system came with industrialization

Originally, the Ducts were a big, stone aquaduct system.

You can still see them in the background even

[grave stream]

i was right!

i was thinking that on my first playthrough lol

[near jasper]

The conductors took a random demigod and enslaved it for sewage treatment like it was nothing

[grave stream]

greek mythology in a nutshell

[floral quiver]

Well, remember, Silk was probably the instigator for that.

It's Her daughter after all

[near jasper]

"romino where the fuck is my daughter"
"Eternal bilewater"
"Ok I didnt care that much ngl"

[grave stream]

who is romino

[floral quiver]

Unironically yes probably

[near jasper]

Conductor

[floral quiver]

A long dead conductor

[grave stream]

oh yeah

[near jasper]

Do conductors pick a new name for themselves after being elected like popes

[floral quiver]

Unknown. I say no, but only because theyre a council.

[grave stream]

btw "bile" means digestive liquid in the gallbladder
what does that imply?
enemy soup; literally

[near jasper]

Bile is also present in vomit

Vomit water

[grave stream]

enemy soup

[glacial warren]

I still feel bad for the Conductors. What they went through is stuff no sentient being should experience.

[silent hill]

Theory: What if Zote came from pharloom before coming to hallownest?
I might've just imagined it but I'm pretty sure Zote said that his nail was made of shellwood. It might be in multiple different kingdoms if it's just a type of wood, but also, it's a very strict rule for the pilgrims to never use violence or wield a weapon, so it makes sense he would have to carve it himself. "Precept Six: 'Choose Your Own Fate'. Our elders teach that our fate is chosen for us before we are even born. I disagree." This makes a lot of sense if he's from pharloom, since all the pilgrims were told that they were destined to make the pilgrimage and such. "Precept Eleven: 'Mothers Will Always Betray You'. This Precept explains itself." Something I've noticed playing Silksong is that there are quite a lot of mothers, it's kind of a recurring theme. The most prevalent being Grand Mother Silk but almost all of them are bosses that you need to fight so it makes sense why you shouldn't trust them. "Precept Twelve: 'Keep Your Cloak Dry'. If your cloak gets wet, dry it as soon as you can. Wearing wet cloaks is unpleasant, and can lead to illness." Bilewater. This can apply to other things, but it does lead to illness so that makes sense. "Precept Fourteen: 'Respect Your Superiors'. If someone is your superior in strength or intellect or both, you need to show them your respect. Don't ignore them or laugh at them." This one might be a bit of a stretch, but pharloom has a very strict hierarchy, so if that's his kingdom of origin, it checks out that he could've gotten punished or worse for not doing this. "Precept Twenty-Two: 'Abandon the Nest'. As soon as I could, I left my birthplace and made my way out into the world. Do not linger in the nest. There is nothing for you there." This ties in with one of the main themes of Silksong, capitalism. The pilgrims will notably gain nothing, and are being lied to so that they think they will. Also, he is definitely not in pharloom anymore. Tbc

[glacial warren]

Silksong doesn’t really relate to Capitalism so much as it exposes the folly of blind faith. The Pilgrims are exploited by the Citadel because their belief system and religion has essentially been turned into a great big scam.

Well that and the whole murder cult thing but that’s its own can of worms.

They’re essentially being brainwashed into the belief that ‘faith and purity justify the means.’ That no amount of suffering and hardship they endure is unearned because the Citadel is this supposed ‘paradise’ and they’ll even get to see the ‘Divine Heart’ of their religion if they complete the pilgrimage. But they never will.

[midnight reef]

Shellwood is likely not the only source of Shellwood, basically its just calling an area "the woods"

[silent hill]

"Precept Twenty-Six: 'Don't Trust Your Reflection'. When peering at certain shining surfaces, you may see a copy of your own face. The face will mimic your movements and seems similar to your own, but I don't think it can be trusted." Something I personally noticed is that the floors in a lot of the citadel is reflective, idk if that's relevant tho. "Precept Twenty-Nine: 'Develop Your Sense of Direction'. It's easy to get lost when travelling through winding, twisting caverns. Having a good sense of direction is like having a magical map inside of your head. Very useful." With Zote's whole 'not listening to anyone' thing, it makes sense that he wouldn't want to accept the maps in the citadel. Also, since he's so resistant to the citadel, he could've gotten locked up in the slab, and possibly made the map you find there? Along with other places you find maps? That one's a bit of a stretch tho. "Precept Thirty: 'Never Accept a Promise'. Spurn the promises of others, as they are always broken. Promises of love or betrothal are to be avoided especially." In Silksong, when you accept a wish, you specifically promise it. Since wish walls are so common in pharloom, he could've put wishes up on wish walls, and those wishes never got fulfilled since nobody was doing that (since hornet wasn't there), so obviously he would never trust wishes/promises. "Precept Thirty-One: 'Disease Lives Inside of Dirt'. You'll get sick if you spend too much time in filthy places. If you are staying in someone else's home, demand the highest level of cleanliness from your host." Bilewater again. "Precept Forty: 'Obey No Law But Your Own'. Laws written by others may inconvenience you or be a burden. Let your own desires be the only law." There are laws in pharloom, to some degree. Although, connecting that to pharloom specifically is definitely a stretch. Tbc

[silent hill]

Yeah that makes sense

[silent hill]

I was kinda paraphrasing lol

[glacial warren]

In terms of Zote’s origins, it seems likely he’s a Vessel.

He mirrors the Knight in almost every regard and bears a cloak and Mask as a Vessel would, even having picked up a Nail at some point. However, Zote is also blatantly the most defective of them all, having a mind, will, and voice.

[midnight reef]

hes not a vessel

this has been known since Hollow Knight

Zote is a normal bug

if you missed- Zote has a mouth
Zote speaks
That alone makes him a normal bug- not a Vessel.

[glacial warren]

Yet he has an appearance almost exactly mirroring the Knight’s, and is clearly not a ‘standard’ Bug in countenance and form.

[silent hill]

"Precept Forty-Two: 'Spend Geo When You Have It'. Some will cling onto their Geo, even taking it into the dirt with them when they die. It is better to spend it when you can, so you can enjoy various things in life." In pilgrim's rest, Mort says (if you don't buy anything) "won't your rosaries weigh you down on your travels?" (Or something along the lines of that). Idk if that actually has any connection but that's what I thought of idk "Precept Forty-Eight: 'Be Careful With Fire'. Fire is a type of hot spirit that dances about recklessly. It can warm you and provide light, but it will also singe your shell if it gets too close." Wisp thicket. "Precept Forty-Nine: 'Statues are Meaningless'. Do not honour them! No one has ever made a statue of you or I, so why should we pay them any attention?" Poor isamor bro 😔 "Precept Fifty-Two: 'Beware the Jealousy of Fathers'. Fathers believe that because they created us we must serve them and never exceed their capabilities. If you wish to forge your own path, you must vanquish your father. Or simply abandon him." Fathers are also very prevalent in Silksong and usually are hostile. "Precept Fifty-Four: 'If You Lock Something Away, Keep the Key'. Nothing should be locked away for ever, so hold onto your keys. You will eventually return and unlock everything you hid away." This goes along with what I said earlier about the slab. "Precept Fifty-Five: 'Bow to No-one'. There are those in this world who would impose their will on others. They claim ownership over your food, your land, your body, and even your thoughts! They have done nothing to earn these things. Never bow to them, and make sure to disobey their commands." Starts violently shaking and beeping in alarm @glacial warren you were just talking about this !!! Tbc

[silent hill]

His appearance is notably very different from the vessels in many ways, including the fact his mask is a different color than all of the vessels. Also he eats

[glacial warren]

Also one thing that points to Zote being a Vessel is certain Dream Nail Dialogue during his ‘Boss Fight’ in the Colosseum: ‘I’ll slay a thousand more. Will that be enough, father?’ Plus the words of Precept Fifty-Two.

[silent hill]

That doesn't make the pale king automatically his father he could just have a bad relationship with his dad

[glacial warren]

So given the context, my guess is he’s the Vessels’ equivalent of the runt of the litter. He emerged as the most flawed and erroneous of any Vessel ever spawned, the opposite of an ideal Pure Vessel. But despite the odds he escaped the Birthplace and began hyping himself up as ‘Zote The Mighty’. In some way, he’s still trying to prove to himself that he could have been worthy.

[silent hill]

"Precept Fifty-Six: 'Do Not Dream'. Dreams are dangerous things. Strange ideas, not your own, can worm their way into your mind. But if you resist those ideas, sickness will wrack your body! Best not to dream at all, like me." This aligns very well with how Pavo talked about the haunting.

Sorry this is in so many weirdly sized chunks, it's just because of the discord character limit

[silent hill]

He literally isn't a vessel tho. No vessels have organs or mouths, not fitting the definition of a vessel doesn't make him just a bad vessel. Because that's not what vessels are. Vessels are made of void. Therefore they do not have body parts such as mouths. This excludes Zote from being a vessel at all.

[glacial warren]

His Mask has a mouthpiece, yes, though we do not know if his anatomy is to match beyond this. But we know for certain he’s a Vessel due to his appearance and overall structure. There’s only one way creatures with Masks shaped like that appear in Hollow Knight.

[wet walrus]

To be fair weavers don't really hesitate to outcast those who don't serve their interests. I mean look at Eva. Literally the only character Hornet relates to.
It isn't the same thing however it is the same mindset.

[silent hill]

Precept Three: 'Always Be Rested'. Fighting and adventuring take their toll on your body. When you rest, your body strengthens and repairs itself. The longer you rest, the stronger you become.
Precept Twelve: 'Keep Your Cloak Dry'. If your cloak gets wet, dry it as soon as you can. Wearing wet cloaks is unpleasant, and can lead to illness.
Precept Twenty-Seven: 'Eat As Much As You Can'. When having a meal, eat as much as you possibly can. This gives you extra energy, and means you can eat less frequently.
Precept Thirty-One: 'Disease Lives Inside of Dirt'. You'll get sick if you spend too much time in filthy places. If you are staying in someone else's home, demand the highest level of cleanliness from your host.
Precept Thirty-Four: 'Don't Eat Immediately Before Sleeping'. This can cause restlessness and indigestion. It's just common sense.
Precept Thirty-Nine: 'Eat Quickly and Drink Slowly'. Your body is a delicate thing and you must fuel it with great deliberation. Food must go in as fast as possible, but fluids at a slower rate.
Precept Forty-Four: 'You Can Not Breathe Water'. Water is refreshing, but if you try to breathe it you are in for a nasty shock.
Precept Forty-Eight: 'Be Careful With Fire'. Fire is a type of hot spirit that dances about recklessly. It can warm you and provide light, but it will also singe your shell if it gets too close.
To prove that these are all based on experience:
Precept Forty: 'Obey No Law But Your Own'. Laws written by others may inconvenience you or be a burden. Let your own desires be the only law.

[wet walrus]

Horns and shells like these also like seen in multiple occasions

[glacial warren]

Yes but, again, he has the specific Mask and Cloak only seen on one kind of creature throughout the game.

[silent hill]

There are many creatures we don't see other than one character, the world is bigger than the game

[glacial warren]

Yes but, again, within Hallownest, the only entities we see who are of this stature who have pale Masks with those long, curved horns and with the particularly-stylized, shaped Cloaks are the Vessels.

[silent hill]

Now that I'm thinking about it, is it just me or does quirrel REALLY look like a Pilgrim

[wet walrus]

I don't know what those things are but could be ancient bugs
Elderbug also shares similar characteristics to Zote. Grey striped cloak, a shell with horns and mouth

[silent hill]

Way to gatekeep fashion /nsrs

[glacial warren]

Even so, Zote is still something different. He matches the Knight almost one to one and has the distinct horns and Mask of a Vessel.

[silent hill]

https://tenor.com/view/hollow-knight-gif-22799577

[glacial warren]

Granted a lot of his exact past and its complexities remains a mystery, but my closest guess is he’s their ‘runt of the litter’. He’s the most brutally erroneous of all the Vessels, the exact opposite of the intended result.

[wet walrus]

He is meant to be a joke. So the convo is really pointless since he is meant to be a buffoon with no lore indepth.

[wet walrus]

I really doubt that. Zote speaks about his parents in his precepts
"Jealousy of fathers
Mothers will betray"
I don't think those two can be related to PK or WL

[glacial warren]

There’s Lore present to him, if one knows where to look. In particular, a lot of his dialogue regarding one’s relationship with their parents gives away what precisely he is. He’s the most defective of the Lady’s spawn, a failure in every possible regard. But on some level, in some way, he still wanted to prove he had what it took.

[silent hill]

He is not made of void. If he is not made of void, he is literally not a vessel.

[glacial warren]

Also remember that a lot of what he says is exaggerated or warped by his arrogance.

[wet walrus]

Other Vessels never seen PK or WL. Only ones who did was THK and TK (who would lose the memory). TK learns about PK in dream realm which only he could enter as an outsider. Zote never made it to Queen's Gardens.

[silent hill]

Also, it's a major point that only the perfect vessels can even escape. After they found their perfect vessel, they locked the rest up. It is physically impossible for Zote to be a vessel.

[glacial warren]

Other Vessels made it out of the Abyss, by whatever means.

[wet walrus]

In which Knight had to fight violent territorian mantises amped by the infection and had to fight their strongest one before finding WL

[glacial warren]

Some made it as far as Greenpath, but most who got that far were cut down by Hornet in her test of strength. Some made it all the way to Deepnest, but were ensnared by the lure of Nosk.

[silent hill]

This is also a plot hole but it is specifically said on lore tablets and through wl dialogue and various dream nail dialogue that it's the case.

[wet walrus]

The closest vessel who made it was most likely Broken Vessel because he was actually close to reaching the abyss

[glacial warren]

The Broken Vessel was a bit bigger than most of the others we saw, so it outlived quite a few of its siblings before it met its end.

Might have even been one of the few that got past Hornet in Greenpath.

[silent hill]

It was also infected which likely affected it's size. The most likely cause of the vessels growing in size is not age, but strength. Thk went through specific training and is very large, broken vessel probably just became stronger from the infection
Also they were all created at the same time

[silent hill]

Hornet herself said that the knight was the only one who made it past her

[glacial warren]

Methinks it likely aged properly. It only becomes Infected due to a bunch of Lightseess hijacking its corpse.

[wet walrus]

The arena only shows one killed vessel though

[silent hill]

That's how infection works tho?

[glacial warren]

Infection usually occurs due to Radiance entering the mind of another creature and invading them this way. The Broken Vessel seems to have died uninfected, but then the Knight moving about startled a large nest of Lightseeds, which then puppeteer the corpse.

[wet walrus]

Too weak, little ghost...
No shadow will haunt me...
Only pity for your cursed kind.

Come no closer, ghost.
I've seen you, creeping through the undergrowth, stalking me.
This old kingdom... A terrible thing awakens. I can smell it in the air...
I know what you are. I know what you'd try to do. I can't allow it.

I am sure the vessel she killed also tried to undo what PK did to seal the infection. After she leaves like a good little girl the knight will get haunted by the 3 dreamers after he gets mothwing cloak from the fallen vessel.

[silent hill]

The lightseeds are how the infection spreads, just like with lifeblood

[glacial warren]

Not really, no. The Lightseeds are their own creatures. The Infection spreads non-physically via Radiance basically backdooring into peoples’ mindscapes and then hijacking their psyche.

[silent hill]

Also the majority of infected bugs were already dead. This is made very very clear in the Hunter's journal.

[glacial warren]

The Lightseeds are small, single-celled organisms who could feel and think and Dream, and thus became Infected.

[silent hill]

But they also are lifeblood sometimes??? I'm just saying that they're not creatures outside of the infection, they're more like the infection taking form (from what I can tell)

[glacial warren]

Upon feeling threatened, they all essentially pull a gambit to kill the Knight by beelining for the remains of the Broken Vessel and, through Radiance’s mental influence, re-animated the corpse to puppeteer it as a greater ‘body’ for themselves.

Kind of like how the Watcher Knights aren’t genuinely, directly Infected themselves, but are puppeteered by swarms of Lumaflies that became Infected. They’re smaller, Infected Bugs who hijack the corpse of a bigger Bug to re-animate it and use it as a ‘body’.

[midnight reef]

I mean... if you want to get technical, the knight doesnt even wear a cloak, least not from the start of the game
Their cloak are their wings ;3

[silent hill]

The smaller infected bugs infect the larger bugs and make them infected
This is what you are saying also

[silent hill]

I forgot about that

[midnight reef]

When Zote explicitly states himself that he wears a cloak

would be weird to for to call it a cloak if its his wings

[silent hill]

That discussion was derailed quite a bit

[midnight reef]

I can tell

[glacial warren]

The Knight wears a cloak from game start. Cloak is upgraded into Mothwing and then Shade as game progresses.

[midnight reef]

Just came back in to check how its going here XD

[midnight reef]

Nope

They wear no cloak at the start

[glacial warren]

?????

[midnight reef]

They then get the Mothwing cloak, which they then wear

[silent hill]

Look at the inventory at the start of the game

[glacial warren]

Have you. Not played this game, by chance? Or seen the Knight’s playermodel???

[midnight reef]

Yep, 112%

[silent hill]

Those are literally wings
Do you see how they use monarch wings

[midnight reef]

I've been here and done this argument a few times

[glacial warren]

It is very visually wearing a Cloak when you begin a run. It’s not exactly prancing about in the nude.

[midnight reef]

It looks like a cloak

its not

that is part of the Knights body

[glacial warren]

The Monarch Wings are something taken externally and integrated.

[silent hill]

THEY'RE BUGS MOST OF THEM ARE NAKED

[midnight reef]

as we see, many bugs have cloaks that are their wings

the Mantises, Sly, the Maskflies

Those arent worn clothing, they're just part of their body

[silent hill]

And many others in Silksong too

[glacial warren]

And yet, you do not have any ability to fly.

[midnight reef]

Yep

[glacial warren]

That’s not wings: That is a Cloak.

[silent hill]

They're not very good wings
I mean, you just went through a lot of damage when you climbed out of a big void pit and fell multiple very large distances

[midnight reef]

my mans never seen a turkey before

or an emu

[glacial warren]

You only get wings due to taking someone else’s wings.

[midnight reef]

or a cassowary

Those wings that bind to the knights wings, allowing for added air control in the form of a double jump

[midnight reef]

it doesnt seem that any of the Vessels are born with functional wings, I assume its something they inherited from the Pale King

well, more likely the White Lady, considering Hornet lacks it

[glacial warren]

It. Does not have Wings until you obtain the Monarch Wings.

[silent hill]

Mothwing cloak is an actual cloak, when you get them from the dead vessel the vessel does not lack the "cloak" because it still has the wings underneath.

[midnight reef]

Team Cherry doesnt often draw sprites for additional items you get also

[silent hill]

Probably just that hornet got the recessive gene

[glacial warren]

It. Does not have Wings, nor does any other Vessel we see.

[midnight reef]

mostly because that'd EASILY quadrouple the needed sprites

[silent hill]

Are you ignoring us or something what

[midnight reef]

Also why Hornet isnt shown with a fluffy layer under her cloak when she gets the Faydown Cloak

[glacial warren]

No just calmly listing the facts as they stand.

[midnight reef]

All Vessels are born with a cloak then?

[silent hill]

She is when using it /silly

[midnight reef]

And only when using it, which is conviently how you make the least amount of sprites XD

Same with there being no visual difference between the Drifters Cloak and the one she starts with, though that is just a modification on her cloak

[silent hill]

Ok then. Explain the fact that the shades obviously have what you're calling a cloak, and they wouldn't have clothes of any kind. This could only be explained if that's wings.

[midnight reef]

Im pretty sure the falling Vessel Corpses in the Abyss climb also have a cloak by that logic

And cloaks are seen in the Birthplace, in among all the vessel corpses

[glacial warren]

We don’t know what precisely the Vessels’ Cloaks are, though they do seem to be some kind of growth from the creatures themselves.

[midnight reef]

like... I dont know.... wings, perchance?

[silent hill]

Me when my baby is born clothed

[glacial warren]

Can’t be wings. They look almost more like tendrils, all wispy and detached.

[midnight reef]

Sorta like the Mantis Youths?

[midnight reef]

Which when they grow older turn into

[glacial warren]

Now see, these are proper wings. They’re more wide and flat.

[midnight reef]

and with more age, become

Unless the lords just shaved off their wings

[glacial warren]

The Vessels’ Cloaks strands are more elongated and tendril-like, rather than being more firmly meshed.

[midnight reef]

Like the Mantis's

all the Maskflies

...and the Belflies

the Belflies even have a split down the midle of their wings

[glacial warren]

Yes but again, see how the wings fan out and become wider and flatter near the ends? These are proper wings, intended to catch drafts and allow flight.

[midnight reef]

Same with Sly, though his cloak is visually different

But otherwise follows the same shape as the vessels wings

[glacial warren]

The Vessels’ Cloaks are more like weird, branch-like strands, almost like vines or tendrils.

[midnight reef]

Which in other bugs, like the Maskflies, Belflies, and Mantis Youths, are capable of flight

[silent hill]

Woah Silksong

[midnight reef]

They're not in the Vessels, for whatever reason

[glacial warren]

That’s because those are not wings. Simple enough, yes?

They’re not designed nor intended to allow for flight.

[midnight reef]

or because the vessels are the corpses of dead children risen by the void?

[glacial warren]

In fact come to think of it, when the Knight dies, we see its Cloak flake apart, looking almost like leaves being shed off a branch of a tree.

[silent hill]

Like the rest of it's body that isn't void :0

[glacial warren]

So it might be that the Vessels’ Cloaks are in fact a plant-like growth, possibly inherited from their mother’s side of the heritage.

[silent hill]

They're still, at least in part, living beings affected by how genes work. Pk had wings, so they inherit wings, even if the rest of their biology doesn't allow for them to be used.

[silent hill]

Mother's???????????????????????????????????????? They are not big white roots bro

[glacial warren]

They did not inherit wings. We see blatantly what his wings look like via the Monarch Wings.

If they’d gotten his wings, we would have very clearly seen them.

[glacial warren]

Well yes he hides his under his robe but you get my point.

[silent hill]

He originally looked a little something like this, actually (not my art)

[glacial warren]

His wings are six beautiful, almost angelic-looking appendages which glow with an intense light. If the Vessels had inherited this, we’d have very definitely seen it.

[midnight reef]

that is a memory of the Pale King, though

He probably did have wings, and if I had to guess they would've been quite like the Vessels

[glacial warren]

He has wings. The Vessels do not.

Again you literally find his wings in game and take them for yourself.

[midnight reef]

they're not his wings though, they're the wings of a Monarchfly

[silent hill]

had to switch devices sorry

imbacknowthough

[silent hill]

can we go back to this please
that isn't a part of wl's body

[glacial warren]

They very blatantly are. They’re even featured in all of his iconography throughout the game.

[glacial warren]

Well we don’t see any leafage on her since her body is concealed under her bindings. Only her head and the huge mass of her roots growing from it are exposed.

[silent hill]

his true form is actually a giant wyrm and his wings were not visible

[glacial warren]

Being a Wyrm is not his ‘true form’, it was his past self, his previous life. When he died, he was reborn into the form we see him in now.

[silent hill]

wl is likely a similar parasitic plant-like species to greyroot, seeing as she grows throughout the kingdom, has an innate urge to reproduce, and is very similar in appearance.

[glacial warren]

You even find and enter his old corpse to fetch the King’s Brand.

[silent hill]

i feel like it was more like he shed his skin, just took on a new form. he's a pale being he can do that

remember when this discussion was about zote's origins?

anyways this isn't even about sk anymore so if we want to keep discussing this we should probably move this to #hk-lore

[warm shadow]

true pretty sure

[twin dragon]

they're only similar in appereance

Their drive to reproduce is different

and wl was forced to

kinda

[dire lynx]

no?

[twin dragon]

to have as many as she did i think?

to the point where it incapacitated her

[dire lynx]

she chose to incapacitate herself because she felt regret in her actions and didnt want the same thing to happen again

[twin dragon]

Didn't the shit ton of kids deform her body?

or am i misremembering

[dire lynx]

"These bindings about me, I've chosen to erect. There is some shame I feel from my own part in the deed, and this method guarantees it cease."

she intentionally diminishes herself

"O tragedy! This majestic god evades Our attunement with such ease.
We live only to serve the gods, to seek them out. Why does she frustrate Us? How does she hide from Us? Does she diminish herself by choice?"

[dire lynx]

"I still feel that urge you see. I always will. A voracious desire to spread seeds upon the land, to propagate myself, to breed."

[twin dragon]

Right i misremembered then

i swear she got this big from reproducing but

apparently not

[dire lynx]

nope

like vespa, probably just got big over time

[twin dragon]

even then, rebirthing in another host isn't exactly "spread seeds upon the land"

[whole holly]

i wish we got this in silksong:

we better get another Druid in Sea of Sorrows, it fits too much, one is simply not enough

[foggy stratus]

What is this, what am I looking at?

[whole holly]

cut weaver spire content

[foggy stratus]

Lobster riding Druid boss in Sea of Sorrow.

[whole holly]

i was hoping some kind of druid that derives spell or amulet from land rather than from bug's soul like shaman does

[foggy stratus]

A Druid who thinks they're using the natural magic of the world but they're just using Void without realizing and are like a Vessel with a Shade and shit.

[whole holly]

sounds like you don't really want actual druid in SoS

[foggy stratus]

What counts as an "actual Druid" for this? We've only seen one who may or may not be representative of other Druids.

[whole holly]

i mean some npc that is similar to druid, but potentially with nautical theming

[foggy stratus]

The Salt Druid it is then.

[whole holly]

Kelp Druid?

[foggy stratus]

No no, it needs to be Salt Druid. Trust me.

[whole holly]

why??

[foggy stratus]

Just trust me man.

[whole holly]

Salt Druid sounds lame

[foggy stratus]

You just need to trust me here man.

[whole holly]

is it reference to something?

i am incapable of blind trust

[foggy stratus]

Also Moss Berries are dangerous if ingested improperly and if you eat too much salt you'll suffer severe dehydration and likely die. Kelp lacks such dangers.

Also salt melts slugs iirc.

So just trust me.

[whole holly]

if that is a reason, not really no

[foggy stratus]

No no just trust me here, it'll be peak.

[whole holly]

new druid likely won't even be in SoS

[whole holly]

fine, i trust you

[foggy stratus]

[twin dragon]

please be

or not new druid but heart of the moss

[whole holly]

you want it too?

[twin dragon]

nah not exactly that

[whole holly]

yeah i agree too

[twin dragon]

Druid character development

and most importantly

old heart lore

[whole holly]

Druids are basically vegan Shamans, amirite?

[twin dragon]

i mean

more like

vegan meth plug

if anything

[edgy nebula]

is it even said anywhere that mossberriea cause hallucinations or have similar effects to drugs

i dont even think moss druid is high i think theyre just crazy

[twin dragon]

They are

but

[twin dragon]

Nope but they're toxic

[onyx jolt]

the most canon ending is ||mr mushroom because even if you do sealed siblings he will still be in pharloom||

[foggy stratus]

Inhaling the fumes makes you see shit iirc.

I'd look for the dialogue saying it but I'm doing vacation shit rn.

[whole holly]

it causes visions

[ionic stump]

to be fair the description does mention this

[heavy gyro]

Tbf apple seeds are also toxic

[foggy stratus]

The Moss Berry stew is basically acid if Hornet takes a dip in it.

[wet walrus]

So who had the hardest life?
Knight who was surrounded by void
Or Hornet who is surrounded by assholes her entire life

Ok maybe Eva is an exception

[foggy stratus]

Off the top of my head THK.

[whole holly]

Eva has had hardest life

[wet walrus]

THK child abuse 😭

[foggy stratus]

Imo its hardly even a life, its just existing.

[whole holly]

maybe lace or phantom had worse life since how abusive Grand Mother Silk is

[whole holly]

yeah but it has to be hardest, though

[foggy stratus]

Yeah Eva definitely has had it the hardest. Probably followed by THK then Phantom.

[wet walrus]

Basically Hornet when she dies. None if the weavers will honour her, remember her or even consider her one of their own. They never had intention to do so unless it suited their interests
"Show us your craft child, prove yourself more weaver than wyrm"
Except Eva doesn't die. Instead trapped in a painful state in a fate worse than death.

[whole holly]

THK he had better parent than Phantom, so how?

[foggy stratus]

Its entire purpose was to get locked in an egg with a pissed off deity in its head. Then said deity started to slowly kill it and leak, meaning THK had failed its one purpose.

Before getting sealed it had a decent life, but afterwards everything just went downhill horribly.

[whole holly]

Eva is made from Rune, why death analogy? do you mean that Weavers neglected eva because she was useless to them?

[whole holly]

i guess that is true

[wet walrus]

PK probably treated his son worse as he had no intention to make him a future rather a desperate project he himself knew it was doomed from the beginning.

[whole holly]

i miss "is FotF/Fayforn/Palestag/Eva/Nyleth a Higher Being" questions

[whole holly]

?? worse?? we see them bonding in path of pain sequence memory

[foggy stratus]

Nothing ever indicates he treated THK poorly and if he knew it'd eventually fail he'd have not doen it.

[wet walrus]

Thats the point. Eva was made to be something different from weavers but also one of their own. They only cared whether it is superior to them or not as this is their intention to best gms. Same thing also goes to Hornet and both characters even relate to each other in just first encounter.

[whole holly]

they only valued a worthy weapon, yes, which they viewed hornet as

[twin dragon]

he put thk through some rigorous training and whatever bond they could've had was irrelevant as thk ended up being the tool that pk wanted

[wet walrus]

It is implied he knew. He simply put too much hope on the project because he misunderstood both void and the force of the nature. Both were not a result of his ignorance, rather feeling desperate.

[foggy stratus]

Putting a child through training doesn't mean they were treated poorly.

[twin dragon]

Path of pain levels of training

and i can't imagine their life being anything more

[foggy stratus]

Nothing indicates that.

[twin dragon]

They were meant to be a tool, after all

[uneven pilot]

Im very important to the lore

[foggy stratus]

How was it implied?

[foggy stratus]

Holy shit Socrates.

[wet walrus]

"What good to foresee a demise inevitable?"

[uneven pilot]

If swearing is your power what are you without it

[foggy stratus]

That mushroom was talking in hindsight.

[foggy stratus]

I'll find acronyms or other ways to get the point across.

[wet walrus]

Wyrms do have foresights. How good they are is unknown but certainly isn't relevant. As they created kingdoms that outlived ages. PK so far only took his L against the inevitable end. The foresight further nails the fact that there was absolutely nothing could have been done.

[foggy stratus]

How good his foresight is doesn't matter? Yes, it does. His foresight saw the Vessel project working but more than likely didnt see it failing, thus he put all his effort towards that.

[wet walrus]

He doesn't necessarily have to see the project specifically fail

He probably foresaw his kingdom in ruins which never happened in ages until now

[foggy stratus]

If he saw his kingdom in ruins then he'd be able to see what put it into ruins.

[wet walrus]

His kingdom lasted this long because when there is something that could be done he would do it.

[wet walrus]

We only know he sort of declared war against radiance around the time infection started

So he probably never heard of her at the time

The no blazing kin tablet

[foggy stratus]

He never 'declared war' against her.

[random harbor]

Lore Tablet: White Palace - White Palace Throne Room

No blazing kin. Only one light shall shine against the dark.
The Wyrm becomes beacon, minds expanded, to yield, to devote.
Eternity in promise and charge in progeny cursed.

@lexmolten used /lore-tablets area: White Palace name: White Palace Throne Room

[wet walrus]

Whatever but he still acknowledges her around the time infection began

[foggy stratus]

No blazing kin likely means no infected.

He basically said he was going to end the infection.

[whole holly]

i always wonder what did blazing kin meant? radiance is blazing light but word kin felt out of place

[wet walrus]

I mean the vessel project was probably not entirely his idea. We know monomon made prototypes for it and gathered a lot of insights for the king. Weavers helped fight the infection and most likely made the seals themselves

[dapper willow]

they are both higher beings i guess

i don't think the pale king would have done the vessel thing if he knew it would fail

[wet walrus]

Infected bugs most likely. The tablet was around the time infection began so not the entire kingdom was zombified by radiance

[whole holly]

well yes but that doesn't really answer my question, are you implying Pale King's Blazing counterpart is Radiance and as Higher Beings they are somehow his Kin??

[wet walrus]

Their infected kin must be the context

[foggy stratus]

Why is Mosskin enthusiast so shocked all the time?

[whole holly]

blazing as term is used weirdly, it would make more sense for sure

[wet walrus]

He must have said "your infected brethren"

Cuz not all of hallownest was infected but at the same time pk couldn't enforce authority anymore

[whole holly]

i have collected data in contexts how Blazing is used

[dapper willow]

Years have been retconned from the hollow universe
This is a subtle hint that time is an illusion

And this is a subtle hint at me being happy that the og game is still being updated

[wet walrus]

I am sure one year for a bug is different from one year for a hooman

[dapper willow]

makes sense they don't have years since there are no seasons and stuff

[wet walrus]

I mean he only really speaks about his citizens.

[whole holly]

yes it is always used to describe Infection/Infected, Blazing Light is a symptom of Infection, his comment makes sense now i agree with you, he says none of my citizens/kin should experience blazing light

[dapper willow]

cycles used in silksong to refer to time was peak when I laid my eyes upon it

[whole holly]

do you guys want data about where blazing is used? i have Spreadsheet document

[dapper willow]

the mundane details make the world feel alive

[dapper willow]

you crazy

[whole holly]

why? it's only threeish times

[wet walrus]

True but like bugs are civilised and a civilised nation must have a record that tracks most things most especially time and date.

[whole holly]

i have HKTD app that i can use for that purpose

i love it too

going crazy for lore

[dapper willow]

well as I said cycles exist in silksong to refer to days presumably
I don't know what else they use but I'm excited to lear about it

[wet walrus]

Me too

[whole holly]

really i though it was adjacent to seasons?

[foggy stratus]

I figured it was either weeks or months.

[whole holly]

is it even consistent across different places and bug species?