sk-lore

[lone folio]

I mean they do have a point

[blissful harbor]

this just tells me yall know who the winner is

[keen narwhal]

were talking about no final formsss brooooo

not

god vs a tiny litlle spider baby who can use a needle really well

[blissful harbor]

even then, TK is arguably more durable than hornet, it could outlast her in a fight

[lone folio]

Only reason I even started this conversation is because I was tired of whenever I see this fight get brought upp every average hollow knight fan says "the knight is shade lord and he wins" and it's so annoying

[keen narwhal]

and its happening

[lone folio]

And then there's always the "well hornet takes double damage from everything so the knight is more durable"

[blissful harbor]

that’s not my reasoning but sure

and like
do you have a response for those two, or do you jst say nuh uh

[lone folio]

Yeah ik but that's the reasoning of your average hollow knight fan

[lone folio]

Yeah, shade lord is only achievable with godseeker attunement and trying to use the masks as a form of durability measurement would mean that hornet does as much as radiance and the radiance does as much damage as a tiktik to the knight.

[candid linden]

I wonder if anyone beat lost lace as the night

[lone folio]

Doesn't seem to hard

[candid linden]

its probably easier

[lone folio]

I mean

[candid linden]

desolate dive

spam

[lone folio]

Actually that one tendril attack that sweeps across the room could be bad

[lone folio]

Oh yeah

Good ol invincibility frames

[candid linden]

he can double jump

hell manage

the only thing hornet has on the knight is one more mask

[lone folio]

Is the float needed?

[candid linden]

no

cause you can just wall climb or double jump dash over it

[lone folio]

(I haven't fought lost lace since doing the ending in November of 2025)

[keen narwhal]

so the knight can win against lose lace no porblem

[lone folio]

Ah

[keen narwhal]

oh yeah that was my cheat my climbing the walls

lost lace is easy to dodge on the wall

s

oh guys the other day i was talking to someone. they asked when you get the hunters crest from the ancestor of the bug i forgot its name but the ancestor would dissapear after getting its abality taken so they asked if it was made of soul or something and i realised that happens to widow when you stab into her head and defeat her so does hornet also have the abality to consume enimies?

but somehow she can also consume solid forms of beings?

becuase i think its obvious that widow is not a HB or anything special

[lone folio]

I mean yeah that's basically what happens

[keen narwhal]

so how would widow not be there with hornet like dead

[lone folio]

She just absorbs the enemy

[keen narwhal]

hooly shit

so in this case hornet can consume solid creatures for their souls and abalities so can the knight do the same thing?

[lone folio]

Well what hornet does is different from what the knight does

The knight can focus soul but he can't bind it

[keen narwhal]

hmm true

ohhhh

he cant turn it into abalities

[lone folio]

Hornet can bind the soul so she gets to do some cool stuff with that

At least I think

[keen narwhal]

you can see it in his moves too he cant shape souls like hornet or turn them into differnt things

[keen narwhal]

makes sense

[lone folio]

It could have something to do with the knight not having as much personality and mind as hornet

[keen narwhal]

ahhh she can give souls she gains some form of purpose

he can only use it in like blobs

so technically if he knight had a full personality they could just turn souls into things to bind and plus unlike hornet they can handle stronger souls like gods so they can use GMS or the Radiance as abalties that would be so insane

[candid linden]

he doesnt have a personality or a mind

[lone folio]

He does

[candid linden]

no

[lone folio]

Just not as much

[candid linden]

no mind to think

[lone folio]

Yet he buys stuff and saves his sister

[keen narwhal]

the hollow knight had a mind that is what made them lose

[lone folio]

That's not the trait of something with no mind

[candid linden]

him saving her is contradicting

[keen narwhal]

also the knight thought to live the underground area with the rest of their siblings to reach the surface

they can think on their own

[candid linden]

its weird

[keen narwhal]

he has litlle mind and litlle personality

[candid linden]

why is the red memory red

[keen narwhal]

but if he had enough of both holy shit

[keen narwhal]

idk

red

[craggy smelt]

the 'no mind to think' line from PK probably isn't meant to be literal
the whole plan was to trap the Radiance in the mind of a vessel
he wouldn't want a vessel that literally didn't have one

[candid linden]

I guess

[craggy smelt]

it's Hornet's and she likes red

[near jasper]

Whats the topic rn

[keen narwhal]

exactly then why make a kid just to solve this problem the entire reason they lost is becuase they have a mind

[candid linden]

what happens if you play needolin to thr knight

[candid linden]

will he sing

[keen narwhal]

does the knight have a soul

or mind

i guess

[lone folio]

See the irony of the pk's plan is that no vessel was or could of been perfect. No matter what je did his plan would of failed. Seen someone point out that it's a metaphor for parents trying to force their children into a specific role.

[keen narwhal]

its amazing

[craggy smelt]

the entire reason they lost is because they weren't a pure vessel - there's a lot of discourse about what exactly that entails

[candid linden]

so even the knight will fail?

[keen narwhal]

truly bring a tear to my eye

[lone folio]

Yes

[candid linden]

what

[craggy smelt]

I believe in you, little knight

[near jasper]

90% surely

[keen narwhal]

the only way to win is to remove the radiance permantly

[candid linden]

well thats why we have dream no more

[lone folio]

And etv

But etv is like a bonus ending

[near jasper]

If yes we'd have to assume they truly lost all their mind on the wastelands and they didnt have a single thought during the entire game up to thk

[craggy smelt]

things are def gonna follow off ETV

[candid linden]

why are non infected bugs hostile

[craggy smelt]

I mean it

[near jasper]

Most are just Wild animals

[lone folio]

They are animals that want to survive

[candid linden]

what about hornet

why are they attacking her

[keen narwhal]

oh and i think tarantula was the one who gave me the idea of my theory from earlier so thank you

[lone folio]

Who?

Like who specifically

[candid linden]

everywhere theres bugs

[keen narwhal]

this

[craggy smelt]

(goes out and hassles bears)
(gets mauled)
"What supernatural hostile force is infecting these bears and driving them to violence!?"

[keen narwhal]

lol

[lone folio]

In silksong?

[candid linden]

yes

[lone folio]

In silksong it's the silk inside of bugs

That GMS then gets to control

[keen narwhal]

oh im in this birds nest why is it attacking me is their a higher being at play?????????????

[near jasper]

The non haunted ones all have a reason if they're sentient

[keen narwhal]

yes

[near jasper]

Yes its john craw

[keen narwhal]

usually for survival or to eat or just for fun

[keen narwhal]

damn you john craaaaaaaw

[craggy smelt]

take it to craw court

[keen narwhal]

noooooooooo

[craggy smelt]

you're under craw law

[keen narwhal]

i swear i didnt throw a stone at those two birds

i want a lawyer

[near jasper]

Ngl the crawfather was very reasonable

[keen narwhal]

yeah we did destroy the entire kingdom and kill a lot of birds

just to get the abality to fight him

[lone folio]

True

[near jasper]

Like imagine you knew a weaver went to the citadel and now suddenly the silk haunting is 5 times the strength

[keen narwhal]

also me and tytus have found a theory

[near jasper]

Its reasonable to want to kill them

[lone folio]

I do?

Now I have 2 theories let's go

[keen narwhal]

letsssssss goooooooo

[craggy smelt]

I do often think about Hornet's many terrible crimes, and her yelling that she was found not guilty in the craw court

[lone folio]

My first one is that Trobbio is the coolest guy ever (and that he stole the citadel stage)

[keen narwhal]

fr

[keen narwhal]

i think thats obvious

[lone folio]

"I killed those people for the greater good"

[keen narwhal]

and thesecond is hornet has the same abalities as the knight to some extent

[keen narwhal]

i killed your bird children becuase they were ragebaiting me

[craggy smelt]

steel society will come after her for Void crimes
"That was never proven in the court of craws!"

[keen narwhal]

with stupid knives

[keen narwhal]

i wasnt in the void

i wasnt working with it either

and i didnt summon it

[lone folio]

Steel masters are going to crash out after hearing what the snail shamans and hornet did

[keen narwhal]

fr war crimes at this point

[near jasper]

"Oh yeah I drank that weaver spire the citadel asked you guys to keep good luck with the slab flies ✌️"-hornet to the craws (probably)

[keen narwhal]

bro summoning the void sounds like a war crime

[lone folio]

It is

[keen narwhal]

and now the justice system is falling apart

[lone folio]

I mean it is also a special occasion that the void became a kingdom destroyer in pharloom

All because GMS got a bit angry

[keen narwhal]

true

[craggy smelt]

act 4 is going to steel town and being tried in steel court

[keen narwhal]

yeah and ragebaiter her servants into betraying her'

[keen narwhal]

no sir i didnt summon that void

[near jasper]

Its sad an act 4 couldnt work completion wise

[keen narwhal]

we have proof of you doing this lace told us everything

[craggy smelt]

Pimpillos everywhere

[lone folio]

I am confused on where the steel stuff will come in

[near jasper]

Soon ™

[keen narwhal]

you killed a mother on top of this shameful dont you think

[lone folio]

Because having them in steel soul would fit but it would be way too difficult and it wouldn't be a good update for your average silksong player

[craggy smelt]

my fantasy is that City of Steel will be the focus of a DLC - we get a new area, entirely new map. Something like the Citadel, made up of multiple sub-areas

like 'Shadow of the Erdtree' to Silksong's Elden Ring

[keen narwhal]

shes commiting more warcrimeeeeeesssssssssss

that would be so cool

[craggy smelt]

Hornet gets on the Bellbeast and rides like hell out of the wastes while steel police follow

[near jasper]

Do you think sherma is going to have to put a guy to work in the exhaust organ 24/7 Now that phantom got ate

[keen narwhal]

they use their ufo looking flying creatures to catch up

[keen narwhal]

what was its purpose again?

[near jasper]

Removing waste

[keen narwhal]

hmmm

[near jasper]

Somehow

[keen narwhal]

i would make something new

like how the city of tears has a sewer system

[near jasper]

Sherma is gonna need to pick up a ton of slack after we killed gms

[keen narwhal]

also if i were a king in hollow knight and a bug i would ban all magic i hate guys who can teleport bro

you wann fight bring them hands

or dont talk to me

[near jasper]

Didnt work that well last time radiance got banned but good luck

[keen narwhal]

sigh yeah i also would ban all religions and have no connections to any god

so we dont have beef

and you must not be under a god or have left one

becuase i dont want that smoke

[near jasper]

Or be one

[keen narwhal]

yep

no magic of anyform we just thrown hand here

we gonna have the industrial expansion up in here

we gonna make trains

and cars

and guns

thats the only form of ranged weaponry that and bows

other than that just straight hands and nails

[keen narwhal]

its beatifully disgusting

ill make you guys my council

what else shall we add

[near jasper]

No murder on saturday

[keen narwhal]

yeah on every sunday we go out of the city to save bugs who have no gods and those who do we dont talk to them

also im gonna add a bug who lives in the sewers and its the slop

so we dont destroy other kingdoms

and idk what else to add

freeedom of speeeeeeech

hoooraaaaaaah

[near jasper]

Womens right to vote

[keen narwhal]

hooooooorah

[near jasper]

Theres no elections

[keen narwhal]

rue there is only a council

[near jasper]

But if there was they could vote

[keen narwhal]

noooooo

only the council

no dumb elections

just to have someone who is stupid in rule no

no no no

just the council

we can only vote

[near jasper]

Act 3 needed more wishes

[keen narwhal]

also taxes becuase they seem imporant

[keen narwhal]

what you mean?

[near jasper]

Songclave has a single wish

[keen narwhal]

oh

[near jasper]

Thats not even from someone who lives there

[keen narwhal]

dang

[near jasper]

Bellhart doesnt have any wish to help the 20 homeless people sitting in town square

[keen narwhal]

true

after the fall of the kingdom we shall go their and bring them to ourssssssssss freedom of speeeeeeeeeeeech

no religion though

[near jasper]

Sherma wish to free the slab peninetents

[keen narwhal]

your god is dead so were fine

[keen narwhal]

we shall help with our guns

what do we call the kingdom

we have hallownest

[near jasper]

Michael

[keen narwhal]

micheal

micheal

welcome to the kingdom of micheal

idk i dont like kingdom

welcome to the nation of micheal

perfect

now all we need is to make nukes that kill gods if they attack us

so far doe sthis sound like the best kingdom in the HK universe?

the only problem is we hate religions

and we kill each other except for saturdays

[keen narwhal]

omg i hate flukewarm

bro what do i even get from battling itttttttttt

ok another rule its illegal to make your children fight for you

[near jasper]

Kid called skarrsinger karmelitta:

https://tenor.com/view/finger-mike-ehrmantraut-breaking-bad-k2-arty-gif-26747433

[keen narwhal]

karmelitta was fun

but still your kids are not gonna fight your fight

[foggy stratus]

Child endangerment maybe?

[keen narwhal]

hell yeah

also bro what law should we add

your part of the council

[foggy stratus]

Undue Pale King slander is a crime punishable by a 175 geo(or 250 rosaire) fine or, at request of the condemned, death by Chief Lugoli.

[keen narwhal]

i approve

[foggy stratus]

(Also what does this mean?)

[keen narwhal]

ok so we are making a bug kingdom

and i decided no stupid presidents and kings instead we have a council

no religion and magic allowed

only guns and nails and fists

and we have the industrial revolution

[foggy stratus]

Alright I guess I would be a pick- I beg your pardon on those restrictions?

[keen narwhal]

yes

no magic and religion

we dont want no beef with gods

i dont want another infection

[foggy stratus]

-# (I'm High Priest of a made up religion centered on a God of Magic)

[keen narwhal]

what

nooooooooooooo

[foggy stratus]

Look at my bio.

[keen narwhal]

damn

im sorry you are not allowed in the council

[foggy stratus]

Dammit.

[keen narwhal]

and we dont allow people who have left their religion in either

becuase the god might get jealous

[foggy stratus]

Arcana is pretty chill tho.

He doesn't really care.

[keen narwhal]

so you can leave and study the arts of guns instead?

[foggy stratus]

Who says I don't already study fire arms?

[keen narwhal]

nice

i donw wanna ruin the rule

of no religions

cuase i could allow arcana but then

i added freedom of speech

so we will get critized

so im sorry

but no you arnt allowed in the nation at all still

[foggy stratus]

You will let me in. hand wave

[keen narwhal]

nooooooooo

no magiccccccc

[foggy stratus]

The force technically isn't magic.

[keen narwhal]

reallyyyy???

but you still cant come in you have a god

[foggy stratus]

Yeah. Midiclhorians and ahit.

[keen narwhal]

interesting

if you attack we will attack back with innovatative bug trains

that can drive off tracks

all hail the industrial revolution

[twilit storm]

And guns

[keen narwhal]

ok i just got demolished by the mantis lords

[keen narwhal]

and gunnnnnnnnnnsssssss

sherma have you left your god?

sherma is a exception bcuase there is god is dead and long gone

[twilit storm]

Wait. The silk mother’s dead?

[keen narwhal]

oh

[twilit storm]

Dang. I gotta take this all in

[keen narwhal]

you didnt know

[twilit storm]

I gotta sit down

[near jasper]

Dont worry now you dont have to look down when singing to her in the abyss, your neck will hurt less

[keen narwhal]

oh god what have i done

yep

[twilit storm]

Oh silk what do I tell the pilgrims

[keen narwhal]

tell them to join the nation of micheal

you shall be part of the council sherma

[twilit storm]

I heard there’s a flea caravan. Might see if I can join them

[keen narwhal]

nooooo join us

you can save people

[foggy stratus]

You will join the dark side. hand wave

[keen narwhal]

noooooooo

[foggy stratus]

You will also join the dark side. hand wave

[keen narwhal]

if you do it ill bring our nukes

[near jasper]

Sherma do you have a person working the "evil thing hooked up to not exploding the citadel" machine

[keen narwhal]

all hail the industrial revolution

[twilit storm]

I’m sorry the what

[near jasper]

Darn

[keen narwhal]

noooooooo we shall use the nukes

TARA activate the NUKESSSSSSSS

[near jasper]

Oki

[twilit storm]

That was not in the old caretakers notes

[dire lynx]

.

[keen narwhal]

cough

[near jasper]

Oh yeah hornet tripped into the worker there And they exploded

[keen narwhal]

guys

[keen narwhal]

look

[twilit storm]

😨

[near jasper]

Dont worry you just have to sentence someone to eternal bilewater to keep it working

[keen narwhal]

well technically were making a theory on what we would do for a bug nation

so technicallllllly set of the NUKESSSSSS

[near jasper]

Oki

[keen narwhal]

also sherma we will make pharloom part of the nation

so you can stay at home

[twilit storm]

Oh ok

[keen narwhal]

all haol the nation of micheal

hail

[twilit storm]

Who’s Micheal

[keen narwhal]

what is your first rule

[keen narwhal]

our nations name

Micheal

[twilit storm]

First rule is all households in pharloom must have at least one bell

[keen narwhal]

gotcha

you mean Micheal

[twilit storm]

My bad

[keen narwhal]

all households in micheal must have one bell

at least

[keen narwhal]

its cool

also sherma its legal to kill eachother except for saturdays

saturdays you can do anything else but killing

[twilit storm]

Oh I don’t like that. Unless it’s heretics

[keen narwhal]

what wouldcount as a heretic

religions arnt allowed

[twilit storm]

The evil people that attack pilgrims

[keen narwhal]

gotcha

ok another rule since we have pilgrim we can make it where you cant attack other people who arnt in the nation

becuase a pilgrim doesnt relly count as part of the nation until they fully join

[keen narwhal]

yes but we dont believe in a relgion

but we shall call

people who attack

who are in the nation who attack people out side of it are heretics

also bobbit you dont have a god or use magic right??????????

anyways the nation of micheal is peak

and i learned hornet can consume beings

[trail wagon]

just throwing it out there in case somebody didn't know about that

the act 2 transition animation in the game files has some extra frames with the door, which were scrapped because the door doesn't have bells on it

It's an old door design

[keen narwhal]

oh thas cool

also

well ill ask HK

[lethal kayak]

y'all I appreciate the discussion! Is this the most accurate timeline picture? Just curious to confirm if Lace was made in haunting, and that citadel was made by Weavers instead of GMS https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1380233368523898991/1464141716511657994/IMG_4916.png?ex=69c1837b&is=69c031fb&hm=617cab33eac6af09df219070417bc3f0b349df3589ea8b86222a83f1cb05d1f2

[edgy nebula]

yeah probably this

ive seen people in sk-discussion argue that it was specifically whiteward surgeries and not the song weakening but that's stupid

[near jasper]

The song starting to weaken was a problem for a long time in the citadel

[edgy nebula]

source for this?

[limpid summit]

I think the silkroplastics seeped into bugs during the conductor era unrelated to Whiteward though

Probably even Weaver era

All the Greymoor stuff spreading dregs around

What’s the dialogue that’s like

The haunting silk only had to search for itself in bugs to haunt

I think that’s the thought process behind the Whiteward activating GMS entry

Stuffings bugs full of foreign GMS silk made them haunted, more haunted bugs meant the music stalled so GMS could stir and haunt consciously

[near jasper]

The whiteward needing to make bugs near immortal to keep the citadel going

[limpid summit]

The bug who serves must never die?

Imo that’s more about silkflies

The immortal bugs seem like a test for the conductor immortality surgeries

By that time they wouldn’t actually need regular immortal bug workers because they had the Cogwork Core

[edgy nebula]

the conductors want slavery

it's an excuse to get bugs to live longer so they can work more

[edgy nebula]

genuine question, why did the cogwork core fail?

[near jasper]

Idk

[limpid summit]

Haunting probably

[edgy nebula]

but if the cogwork core was meant to sustain the song howd the haunting happen

[limpid summit]

Ah I see

[near jasper]

10th architect did a shit job making voice boxes every cogwork bug has stutering issues

[limpid summit]

This is where your interpretation of the timeline comes around

IMO the last edict happened and then the conductors got greedy and started repurposing the silk siphon for immortality experiments once they didn’t have anything else to do

[edgy nebula]

what was the last edict again

[limpid summit]

The core itself

[edgy nebula]

ah

[limpid summit]

And lo is eternity sustained

The bugs they test on get haunted, GMS wakes up just enough to consciously haunt some bugs

[edgy nebula]

so the silk WAS why the haunting started in the first place?

[limpid summit]

If she was strategic (who knows) it would make sense to haunt the Cogwork animatronics first then the whole thing stalls

Then she haunts the regular bugs still around

[edgy nebula]

oohhh okay

[limpid summit]

Their procedures with Silk may have prolonged life within the Citadel, but they unknowingly gifted many minds to the monarch.

It’s sort of surprising that this is like

All we get as far as actual mechanical causes

It almost feels like a midpoint

This is the surgeon entry

[edgy nebula]

so

cogwork core made
silk is injected into shells
dormant silk allows gms to haunt bugs despite being dormant from the song
she fucks everything up

[limpid summit]

Yeah that’s what I think

Idk if it’s entirely airtight

[edgy nebula]

i always assumed the cogwork core fell first and the silk just allowed gms to haunt easier

[limpid summit]

But it makes sense for the conductors to follow the weaver’s last harp and then once it’s fulfilled they get greedy

[limpid summit]

I assume they’re talking about like what

Ballador?

Or maybe she’s saying prolonged life like ruefully/ironically about the haunting

[limpid summit]

I thought abt this but like there’s no microplastic silk besides the silkflies in the robots

And there would be no way for GMS silk to meet them

• GMS couldn’t haunt the robots without first stirring by haunting regular bugs

[edgy nebula]

mmm,, that's true

[dire lynx]

"In the air. The water. Everywhere.
Inside their shells. Twisted inside. Guts.
Tightest around heart. Pulsing rhythm.
Sick. Alive. Dead?
Something worse.
Deeper. Must look deeper."

[edgy nebula]

this was started by the immortality experiments anyway

[keen narwhal]

topic?

[keen narwhal]

what is a silkroplastic

[dire lynx]

microplastics but silk

[keen narwhal]

gotchaaaa is that like actually part of silksong? or did they just say that

[dire lynx]

it is, see the quote i posted just above

[keen narwhal]

gasp

that is interesting

wait were the silkroplastics the reason why people became puppets for GMS? or did silk just take over corpses and other things

[dire lynx]

Caretaker: Have you done it yet, bellringer? Wriggled deep? Discovered the depths of obsession that brought this place so low?

Hornet: If you speak of this Citadel and its Silk, Caretaker, then yes, I now know the start of it.

Hornet: In the ward down below, I saw it clear, the hollowed husks, and the many torturous implements... machines to instill a bug with thread, that would see their life extended.

Caretaker: Aye! That's it, in part! But there's more scale to it than all that. Just think of'em greedily shoving the Silk into their shells, the madness that overcame them, eternal life for mortal bugs! Then think on how long it's all gone on...

Hornet: ...The children born of them, and all the pilgrims after... The Silk has seeded deep into this kingdom's shells, generations deep...

Hornet: No wonder Pharloom's bugs proved such easy prey for that haunted thread. It had only to seek for itself to reach them.

Caretaker: Ho ho! Now you're seein' it, bellringer! These poor pilgrims, all born bound to the cruel system of our world, now stricken in its new cursed web.

Caretaker: You at least are free from it. And free to shake it all up... if'n that's your choosing.

[keen narwhal]

ooooooooh they were getting silkroplastics and then getting full on silk plastic surgies

good god

[keen narwhal]

guysssssssssssssssssssssss emergencyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy loooooooooooooooooooooooooook

zote gave me a autograaaaaaaaaaaaph

[frosty gate]

Agree with most except with Phantom's placement in that line

[frosty gate]

I think that one both are definitely factors at play that made it possible for GMS to start the Haunting

That said, none of those could have been the Detonator

The game makes it seem like the Ward worked for a good time without that much issue, so it means that they didn't put silk into people and the Haunting started instantly

And the Song weakening has to have a reason behind, a reason not particularly related to the Ward

I think that, between those two, Lace fits in like a charm

She's made somewhere around those times, somehow, and then weakens the song somehow so her mother starts the Haunting

"Somehow" probably was killing like 80% of the Citadel

Or at least enough so the Domino pieces fell properly

[marble oasis]

I don’t know if the song “weakened” to cause her to stir

I think it’s just another case of you can’t delay the inevitable forever

Lace did start killing the Choir but that was only after GMS stirred enough to weave a child

[rustic gyro]

Does anyone know what the hokers are supposed to be ?

They have masks so they are bugs

But they look like plants

And what insects would they be

Im at a loss

[patent wing]

so wait here me out

hornet is daughter of herrah, herrah is daughter of grandmother silk

lacce is daughter of grandmother silk

THEREFORE, lace is hornet's aunt??

[craggy smelt]

that's right

[patent wing]

damn

[craggy smelt]

Lace is Herrah's sister

so are Widow and First Sinner and Phantom

think about that shit

[patent wing]

game changer

[onyx jolt]

no they arent

more like adoptive with lace and phantom being the actual daughters

[covert night]

aren't they just the same species evolved from pharlids (except for lace and phantom)? why does that mean they are related

[onyx jolt]

and most of them dont even recognize gms as their mom

[foggy stratus]

Widow does(although she kinda crazy).

[whole holly]

Grand Mother Silk is terrible mom though, she mistreats her kinds(Phantom, Weavers) or neglects them(Lace,Widow)

[dire lynx]

they were still transumuted by silk and it has become a part of their biology. they are as related to each other as phantom and lace are

[foggy stratus]

(Tbh it feels like she does both to both,)

[whole holly]

true

[dire lynx]

or i suppose you could say that weavers and silk childeren are half siblings

[whole holly]

that's why Lord of Shades is best higher being

[foggy stratus]

[dull agate]

Ym shade lord

[foggy stratus]

Both are correct.

[whole holly]

games says Lord of Shades

[dull agate]

🫩

[whole holly]

i prefer to use more formal in-game name

[frank dove]

Guys when are we talking about godtuner's workshop and surface in silksong are the same place

Compare location of the tuning device and the cave back to pharloom left of nameless town

Other than there being no spikes to the right they are pretty much exactly the same

[whole holly]

that is right, Team Cherry didn't even reuse assets, they created identical shaped rooms

[foggy stratus]

The cave looks alike but everything else looks different. People say that TC just reused that asset(personally kinda cheap imo) but yeah.

[whole holly]

but they didn't texture looks different

[foggy stratus]

Yeah I also noticed that but I don't give enough fucks about it to talk about it.

[whole holly]

ok

[frosty gate]

In order for her to stir, the song must've stopped or something must've happened. It couldn't have just been like "Time's up" and the Haunting starts

[frosty gate]

Which would be really cool if this meant literally anything

It's like "It must've been the same place!" yeah so what we got nothing else to go on from that

Maybe in a DLC, who the fuck knows

[marble oasis]

Feel like it could've though

I don't think she could literally sleep forever with enough song

[foggy stratus]

If it is the same place it means that the GodSeeker either didn't sense GMS or didnt view GMS as enough of a God to give much attention.

[frosty gate]

It worked for generations, MANY generations, I see no reason to believe why it would've stopped working just because

[frosty gate]

Which would go against everything with know about Godsimper, so no.

The easier answer would be that they were there before the Fall of GMS and once she was caged they saw no reason to praise her

Which, honestly, still holds no relevance over the lore

Neither Pharloom's nor Hallownest's lore

[marble oasis]

The Hollow Knight:

[frosty gate]

The Hollow Knight didn't work period

It didn't "work for a while"

[foggy stratus]

It did tho. It kept The Radiance sealed and ended the Infection for a time.

Until she broke out, of course.

[frosty gate]

This would solidify GMS as Radiance 2 and I rather fight with yall to death than admit that TC is this stupid

To do the same thing twice

Because it's genuinely just horrible writing

So there has to be differences

Or we just admit Silksong's main plotline is absolutely horrid

We know the THK plan failed because THK had flaws and it was not truly Hollow

If such a thing was even possible

So Id rather believe that the plan to keep GMS asleep would've worked for eternity if not because of something that happened

[marble oasis]

Hollowness was unattainable and so was a perfect never fading lullaby

You cannot make perfect constraints like that to hold a god forever

[foggy stratus]

-# pure not hollow*

[frosty gate]

So TC are just horrible writers and that's it

[marble oasis]

How does that make them horrible writers

[frosty gate]

If you make the same plotline twice with the exact same thing happening is horrible

[foggy stratus]

The whole "nothing lasts forever" is like a main thing in both games.

[frosty gate]

Haunting was already too similar Infection

[marble oasis]

It's called Hollow Knight Silksong for a reason

[foggy stratus]

Calling TC horrible writers because they used a theme from the first game in the second one is a bit rude imo.

[frosty gate]

"A theme" is not "The same plotline"

The only difference would be how the Kingdoms came to be

GMS would literally just be Radiance minus the dream thing

And I think its absolutely fucking boring and uninteresting

To have the same thing happen twice

It's okay to do things in a way that is similar, but this is literally the same thing twice

[foggy stratus]

Is that a lore matter tho.

[frosty gate]

If the plot isn't lore then what is?

[blissful harbor]

mean it’s not really the same plot line
Rad was forgotten and forced herself on the bugs of hallownest
GMS wqs lulled to sleep, but because of her silk being everywhere, there was no forcing
she already basically had the entire kingdom already in her claws

i don’t think it’s the same story so much as an intentional parallel

[frosty gate]

The consequences of both kingdoms would be nothing more than the product of flawed plans made by people out of their depth.
The Haunting would actually just be Infection 2.0

[blissful harbor]

the haunting is more refined than the infection
haunted bugs still worship and devot themselves, go about their business

infected bugs are animals

[frosty gate]

Instead of thinking of a way tha this could be different, we just say "It' just like Hollow knight" and that's it

[foggy stratus]

So you want to ignore their differences so you can call it bad writing?

[candid linden]

why dont they worship radiance

[blissful harbor]

cause Rad doesn’t care about thst anymore
she just tryna destroy everything

[frosty gate]

No, I want to acknowledge proper differences on how the thing happened and not fall into "Oh it's different by minimal things"

[frosty gate]

Me when my animal instincts tell me to mine

And to preach

[blissful harbor]

it’s established infected bugs do their regular tasks in lofe on repeat

that’s not weird

[frosty gate]

And to plan an ambush to kill a royal guard

[blissful harbor]

traitors are obviously more intelligent than regular infected, they make houses
likely due to then willingly accepting it
youre just pointing out things the game already explains

[frosty gate]

There shouldn't be a difference between accepting it and just being taken over it makes no sense why would a sickness act differently?????

[blissful harbor]

it’s not just a sickness

[frosty gate]

I know I'm being petty, but I think it's absolutely stupid to just say its the same as hollow knight and call it a day

[blissful harbor]

it’s a dream born thing caused by Rad forcing herself on a bug, it’s not a regular disease

that’s just a bad faith argument

[frosty gate]

But it acts the same in literally everyone, why would these guys be any difference just because they accepted it? Why would radiance do anything different about them?

And even if she did something different, it just means that the Infection and the Haunting, work the same, its just that Radiance didn't want it working that way

[blissful harbor]

it doesn’t act the same in everyone firstly

cowardly husks just run away from you

[blissful harbor]

and yea, that’s what i said earlier
Rad is pissed beyond belief, she doesn’t care about actually being remembered and sustaining herself

if she did her infected wouldn’t be literally leaking and bloating and exploding

she just wants to destroy hallownest

[blissful harbor]

and Rad is known to interact with specific infected if it means further her goals

[marble oasis]

The husks yearn for the mines

[blissful harbor]

like yelling at myla to kill us

telling the traitors to try and jump WL makes sense

[frosty gate]

So do the Hardbone Hoppers

What's the point

[blissful harbor]

hoppers just bounce around
my point is infected aren’t all the same, they are reduced to base instinct and left with the instincts they had in life
like a guard patrolling, or a coward running away, or a preacher preaching

[frosty gate]

So is GMS, she doesn't care about the Citadel at all, she just cares to wake up

[frosty gate]

"Just bounce around"

"Despite the Haunting of its shell, it has not been overcome with aggression. Its desire to flee remains too strong."

[blissful harbor]

she cares about worship

...Their voices... Their song...
...Their memory...
...Bind their shells...
...Bind their souls...
...Bind them all...
...Raise them... Up...
...To devote... Eternal...
...One mind... One union...

[blissful harbor]

ngl i thought you were talking about HK hoppers

[frosty gate]

So do the Haunted, the entirety of Deep Docks is working while Haunted

[blissful harbor]

Hornet: I'd expected this workshop too would contain only combative types, but you seem composed,
Forge Daughter. You've met the workers? They're all wound up! They still work at their tasks, in a simple way, but they're useless for conversation. It's only ourselves and young Ballow with any sense left.

yes?

[blissful harbor]

the infected don’t function like the haunted
there is no extra work going on for an infected

[frosty gate]

They work the same and some even operate laserbeams, in the Deep Docks specifically the only work to be done is to mine and that they do

[near jasper]

Whats the topic rn

[frosty gate]

One thing is true and its that Infected bugs don't roam too far from Hallownest like GMS can make the Haunted do

[frosty gate]

To be honest I don't even know at this point

[near jasper]

Gms can have more control over haunted bugs Without needing mutations like the infection

[blissful harbor]

“operate lasers”
crystals grew on them and they’re shooting the energy from them

let’s not give them too much credit now

anyways, it’s very clear GMS and her haunted are more sophisticated than Rad and her infected

just due to differing views on their situation

[frosty gate]

Whatever, if yall wanna just settle on GMS being Radiance two sure, but I think that's just lazy as fuck writing

[foggy stratus]

Who's claiming that besides you?

No seriously, who?

[frosty gate]

I fucking said that if that's the case, it shit writing and yall said "Well i think its a bit rude, there's differences"

If you said "Yeah, its lazy writing but it's probably how it is" then sure whatever

[foggy stratus]

You want "proper differences" and not "minor differences" and like the hell? Its differences, what more do you want?

[frosty gate]

It doesn't stop being Lazy writing

[foggy stratus]

That's your opinion. Call it what you want but it doesn't make it that.

[frosty gate]

Which is why I said, if yall wanna settle with that, sure, but I think just lazy as fuck writing

[exotic plaza]

Here then.

He doesn’t have feelings..

[foggy stratus]

TK has a mind and will and emotions and stuff and went to save its Sister.

Also not a he.

[exotic plaza]

I meant “it”

[exotic plaza]

He has no mind to think. He was meant to be the new hollow knight

[foggy stratus]

TK wasn't meant to be anything.

Also it does have a mind.

[exotic plaza]

Tf u mean?

It has no purpose but to contain TR

radiance

[foggy stratus]

Where is the Radiance sealed? In the mind.

[exotic plaza]

It’s not mentioned in the mind

Doesn’t it say in the shell? Am not too sure

[foggy stratus]

Shell is the actually physical shell of a bug.

The Radiance is a dream entity only existing in the Dream Realm.

[exotic plaza]

“No mind to think.”

[foggy stratus]

Meaning it has to be sealed in the Dream Realm.

[foggy stratus]

Pale King is a cryptic fuck.

He also says "no will to break" but we all know Vessels, especially TK, has a will.

[exotic plaza]

will for what? Bag Bretta?

Fk no

[lone folio]

thats just what the king says and wants to believe

[foggy stratus]

He likely meant more along the lines of "no thoughts to get taken advantage of" and "a will that cannot be broken"

[lone folio]

in reality they have a mind

[exotic plaza]

Well then fk the PK

CRYPTIC FK

[lone folio]

Yeah he was a bad dad

[frosty gate]

Whoa Buddy

[foggy stratus]

What? No, don't do that.

[foggy stratus]

[frosty gate]

Don't speak ill of the King

[exotic plaza]

So it’s bad for me to curse?

[exotic plaza]

.

[frosty gate]

Only if its about the King

[foggy stratus]

No curse all you want just don't insult the Pale King.

[exotic plaza]

….you did

And u said he’s a bad dad

[foggy stratus]

I called him what he is. Cryptic as fuck.

[lone folio]

There is not a single good mention of the pale king, even hornet calls him stupid

[exotic plaza]

Oh sry not u him

[lone folio]

well no good mention from his children

the people loved him

[exotic plaza]

Well then.

Case closed

Pale king is a bad father.

And a bad ruler

[foggy stratus]

No.

People loved him.

[exotic plaza]

Couldn’t even hold up a kingdom

[frosty gate]

You surely jest, Emilitia and Lurien do nothing but talk good about the King

Surely he was a great person

[foggy stratus]

Angry dream moth god was to blame.

[exotic plaza]

What? Cuz she didn’t want to be forgotten?

[lone folio]

You try to hold upp a kingdom with an angry god creating a mega plague that has no cure

[foggy stratus]

I still refuse to ever believe her about this.

[exotic plaza]

Ngl I’d do the same if I was radiance

[whole holly]

they are high caste, thus biased sources, as they aren't representative of general population

[exotic plaza]

If everybody was forgetting me. And am a god. For god’s sake a LITERAL GOD. I’d do the same without hesitation

[whole holly]

me too, but i would be taking breaks to see if people repented and also not infect Moss Prophet, she should have stopped when king died tbh

[exotic plaza]

Ngl pale king has aura. Lots of it.

[foggy stratus]

-# or only target the moths

[exotic plaza]

Just pulling up and making everyone love you is true aura’ness’

Hold up.

[whole holly]

oh yeah, i don't think she can control it easily, how does seer evade infection anyways

[exotic plaza]

Pale king died?

Oh yeah I forgot the pale king died

Silly me

But he cracked tho

Both herrah and the white lady

[foggy stratus]

Probably how everyone else evades it does so.

[whole holly]

he should have made similar bargain with Radiance too, tbh

[frank dove]

There are enough differences I don't think I don't think it's just reused but I also don't think it's a coincidence

[whole holly]

yeah but i don't think infection itself is targeted

[frank dove]

Kind of unique shape, I think it's just supposed to show difference over time

[whole holly]

Grand Mother Silk is worse than Radiance in my opinion

[whole holly]

but then again we don't know much about Mothkin's treatment

[foggy stratus]

"Hey, Radiance, is there any other way we can settle this, perchance?"
"SILENCE USERPER I SHALL REDUCE YOUR KINGDOM TO NOT BUT ORANGE GOOP"
-My interpretation of that interaction.

[whole holly]

i don't think so, i think she was only bitter because she was reduced to nothing

[exotic plaza]

Fr

[whole holly]

Grand Mother Silk is Radiance without Excuses

[exotic plaza]

He would actually hook up with radiance if she wasn’t a literal dream entity

[foggy stratus]

Ehh, probably not.

[exotic plaza]

Am smashing both. In my dreams and in reality

[foggy stratus]

[frank dove]

Could have been gms wasn't there yet?

[whole holly]

my reaction too

[exotic plaza]

What. You can’t tell me GMS isn’t the baddest bug in both games

Not even iselda was this curvy

[wintry iron]

always the cod fans

[exotic plaza]

What’s wrong with cod

Bad game cuz of sweats? I play casual. No heat

[foggy stratus]

My brother in Void that is a vaguely humanoid two balls of silk.

[exotic plaza]

Silk is soft. And she has a voice

Sorry

I watch envyyoungblood

He kinda infected me

[foggy stratus]

Most down bad mfer I've seen here.

Wtf was that?

[exotic plaza]

Idk

[foggy stratus]

What did you say???

[exotic plaza]

I have no idea what just happened

I said something I guess is inappropriate

[river lily]

What the fuck

[exotic plaza]

If u want I’ll dm you what I said

Not even that bad

[whole holly]

i dislike every one of his videos on purpose

[foggy stratus]

Do it I need to know.

[exotic plaza]

Kinda sad right?

[foggy stratus]

Okay Ghost that was just down bad, what you said.

[exotic plaza]

Am not down bad I swear

I watch normal…stuff

Human

[foggy stratus]

Thou crawler! Thou cringer!

[exotic plaza]

Not even that often

[foggy stratus]

"Blasphemy! Rank blasphemy!
Thou crawler! Thou cringer! Thou smallest of the small!
By what right dost thou trespass here, in this home of the Gods? Shrivel away and begone! Begone!"
-GodSeeker

[lone folio]

https://tenor.com/view/godseeker-hum-gif-25520381

[whole holly]

honestly biggest thing that makes me curious why didn't Godseeker's conjure God themselves in similar way Bretta did, or Eva was constructed, surely it would have been easier

[foggy stratus]

Wdym by "God"?

[lone folio]

I mean they are kind of doing that, they are pulling other bugs from the kingdom into their domain

[whole holly]

eva is divine mimicry, GPZ is False God but they would likely have been more successful that Weavers and Bretta

[lone folio]

and i really doubt that they have enough intellegence to create Eva

[whole holly]

true, but i meant from ground up, but they kind of propelled knight into godhood very easily

[foggy stratus]

Probably still difficult. Plus they found PK's beacon so why waste time on that?

[idle mesa]

whats the discussion

[whole holly]

okay, nevermind

[foggy stratus]

TK was already a Higher Being after getting Void Heart, they just sorta super charged it.

[idle mesa]

now eh

[whole holly]

yeah that is true

[idle mesa]

yeah

but they werent turning over all of hallownest without the void heart

they are higher its js void heart gave them void focus

which is the actual

power

[lone folio]

And building an Eva is no easy feat, The weavers spent a while on her and even after all of their efforts they created a living piece of fragile silk that needs the equivalent of an iron lung to stay alive

[idle mesa]

hehe iron lung

[lone folio]

i was talking about one of these

[idle mesa]

no ik

but hehe

[exotic plaza]

Sorry I was gone for a bit

Hornet “weaver queen alternate ending” vs knight “no charm no nail no soul with 2 masks.”

lore accurate versions of both

[foggy stratus]

TK wins.

Well actually wdym by "Weaver Queen alt ending"?

[exotic plaza]

When hornet binds GMS

[foggy stratus]

Yeah but what does "alternate ending" mean?

Like, the cut ending?

Where you don't fully bind her?

[frank dove]

That one is called Strung to Serve

[exotic plaza]

A different ending

Not the true one

Look it up

On YT or TT

[foggy stratus]

Since from what I see Hornet is all cacooned up I'd imagine she'd be a fairly simple fight for TK regardless of weapon or charm status.

[exotic plaza]

She literally binds the queen of all weavers. And adding up to her half wyrm half god nature. I suppose she’ll be pretty strong.

[foggy stratus]

Doesn't matter if she's immobile.

[whole holly]

i think she should be as mobile as GMS, which is still disadvantage but still

[exotic plaza]

After she hatches.

Or awakened

Or whatever

[foggy stratus]

Eell in that case it'd be a much harder fight for TK

Maybe possible but still hard.

[exotic plaza]

I just said no charms.

No soul

No spells

Only 2 masks

Level 1 nail

[foggy stratus]

TK's hands rates E for Everyone.

[exotic plaza]

He can’t be this broken💔

[exotic plaza]

Ngl that was smooth

[foggy stratus]

It still has Shade Cloak.

[exotic plaza]

And?

It’s just a dash

And he can’t spam it

[foggy stratus]

I frames are one hell of a drug.

[exotic plaza]

True. Reason desolate dive is so abused

[shy sorrel]

Why are there no muckroaches in bilewater?

[foggy stratus]

Bloatroaches are just evolved offshoots of Muckroaches

[shy sorrel]

Yeea but why arent muckroaches in bilewater

The regular one

[foggy stratus]

They just down tend to go there.

Or we just don't see any there.

[exotic plaza]

Idk habit

[shy sorrel]

Ok

[near jasper]

I ate them

[keen narwhal]

maybe after growing

they are brung into sinners road

[crimson patio]

Hostile environment
If they are young and weak they can’t survive
So only the big ones are there

Trust

[keen narwhal]

becuase we see the bloated mukroach thing

[keen narwhal]

and yeah that makes sense

i think we know where they breed though in the water

but in water with platforms

to walk around

so after growing they are most likely brung into sinners road

and this makes sense becuase they are everywhere in sinners

[crimson patio]

What are they salmon?

Return to the birthplace to give birth and the children goes to bilewater once they are grown

[keen narwhal]

i mean yeah that would check out

they are only in a specific place

and where we ususally see them (sinners road) they dont reproduce or have any

whats the word in the water

their larva

idk

and i guess the dudes in sinners road made the docks so catch adults or near adults to raise them in sinners road

and boom food

[near jasper]

Muckroaches are kinda weird

[shy sorrel]

Who would eat that?…

[keen narwhal]

the chef lugoli

they will cook anything

after you fight her she will die and her own assistant cooks will chop her later on

chop her up

in the background

they eat anything down in sinners road

[near jasper]

Its weird we're the only people we know got charged by the crawfather

Like the memorium kidnapped 20 people

Sure its not an apocalipse but like

[keen narwhal]

ah true

well lets think about the type of

law system they have

the judge in the desert is

[near jasper]

Crawfather sent a single juror to the memorium and now they only have 3 husks intact enough to haunt

[keen narwhal]

im doing research on judging systems

so we can see why

brb

i might be able to answer

i have a theory

ok so the last judge has kinda a relgious judge system

in game they added a code that was scrapped

that if you dont attack any enimies you can go into the desrt and never be attacked by any judge

so thats 1

also the last judge does a bench trial which is a judge makes all the decision and there is no jury

so the last judge uses a religous bench law system

now to the craw father

ok so far from what i can find the craw father usus a customary/traditional judge system where the person is judged by a communties traditions and usually the elder is the judge

now i think they dont use community traditons in their law system becuase hornet isnt even part of that

of their community but she did kill their people

thats how you unlock the fight

you must kill the craws and get their hunter notes

so they are judging you fror killing their people on top of destroying the kingdom

also i think it has a jury system becuase the craws in the back are the jury in this case

so the last judge is a religious bench trial judging system

[candid linden]

how does the haunting still occur if gms is in the void

[keen narwhal]

and the craw father is a cutomary/traditional jury judging system @near jasper

[candid linden]

also can Weavers make silk or not

[keen narwhal]

is this a good explanation?

[candid linden]

also is hornet considered a Weaver

[keen narwhal]

yes

they are spiders

[candid linden]

oh shes half weaver

[keen narwhal]

in HK they make webs

[foggy stratus]

Half Weaver half Wyrm.

[keen narwhal]

yeah she makes webs

[candid linden]

weren't they farming gms silk?

[near jasper]

Yes

[keen narwhal]

yes

[candid linden]

for what then

[keen narwhal]

becuase hers has powers

[near jasper]

Its not like they have infinite

[candid linden]

why dont they have infinite

[keen narwhal]

infinite silk?

[candid linden]

why cant they just make more

with their own bodies

[keen narwhal]

gmss silk is differnt from regular weaver silk

[candid linden]

hmm

[near jasper]

Would you wait for 9 silk hearts to do their thing or just hit the silk ball for some when you felt like healing

[keen narwhal]

they can make silk but cant make silk that can give immortality

[candid linden]

can someone explain what exaclty is the haunting

[keen narwhal]

also Tara do you think theory is good as to why the judges act the way they do

[keen narwhal]

its a infection

like the radiance

[candid linden]

by her silk?

[keen narwhal]

yep

[candid linden]

are Weavers infected

[keen narwhal]

they would put silk in their bodies for immortality

[candid linden]

or just normal bugs

[keen narwhal]

normal

the ones we find have their own thoughts

[candid linden]

wdym the ones we find

[keen narwhal]

not just bumbling zombies

[keen narwhal]

widow

[candid linden]

what does the haunting do to you

[keen narwhal]

and the apostle? i think thats her name?

[keen narwhal]

its silk that takes over your body

fromGMS

[candid linden]

and she makes you do what

[keen narwhal]

whatever she wants in game she uses it to stop hornet

[candid linden]

so the Weavers just use her silk for immortality

[keen narwhal]

yes and other bugs

[candid linden]

are normal bugs keeping gms asleep or are the weavers

[keen narwhal]

the bugs we meet are zombies who wanted immortality or got silk in their bodies

[keen narwhal]

the weavers

idk how to explain

[candid linden]

hmm

[keen narwhal]

they made a spell to keep her there

[candid linden]

yeah I know

[keen narwhal]

but it doesnt work

[candid linden]

but are they the ones who have to keep singing

[candid linden]

oh what

why

[keen narwhal]

becuase she can make zombies

[candid linden]

so shes still haunting in her sleep

[keen narwhal]

she is kinda wake she cant use her body but she can make puppets

[keen narwhal]

yep

thats why we kill her

[candid linden]

and she makes the puppets fight the weavers or what

[keen narwhal]

and why when we meet her she is still asleep

[keen narwhal]

yep to capture them

[candid linden]

but

arent weavers worshipped

[keen narwhal]

she captured hornet

[keen narwhal]

well in parloom they used to be

[candid linden]

what happened then

[keen narwhal]

but they sealed GMS and she made zombies to bring them back

[candid linden]

how did they convince the bugs to worship them

[keen narwhal]

they had immortality silk

[near jasper]

idk

they just kinda did

[candid linden]

i see

[keen narwhal]

i mean think about it you get immortal silk by believing in this religion

[candid linden]

so whos calling the pilgrims

gms?

wait why isnt she instnatly waking up then

[keen narwhal]

wdym?

[near jasper]

currently the conductors

[candid linden]

as soon as they left

[keen narwhal]

becuase she need sthe spell broken

[candid linden]

but no one is keeping the spell

[keen narwhal]

which hornet kinda does when we fight her

[keen narwhal]

yes and hornet stopped it

by fighting her

actually technically they had a safe guard

[candid linden]

sooo whats the triold melody

[keen narwhal]

the music

[candid linden]

exactly

[keen narwhal]

yep

[candid linden]

no what is it

whats it do

[keen narwhal]

oh its a melody to get in the

cradle

[candid linden]

thats all it is?

[keen narwhal]

yeah i mean we dont do anything else with it

[candid linden]

then how does hornet stop the spell

[keen narwhal]

we just get it and boom GMS

[candid linden]

does she literally just challenge her

and boom she wakes up

[keen narwhal]

yeah i guess

nothing happens

she just wakes up

[candid linden]

so before you fight widow

[keen narwhal]

when hornet yells at her

[candid linden]

is the silk shes playing with her own silk or gms silk

[near jasper]

gms silk

[candid linden]

ok why is the conductor calling pilgrims still

[near jasper]

widow cant use her silk because they shoved steel inside her spine

[near jasper]

free labor

[candid linden]

does that have anything to do with steel spines for witch crest

[near jasper]

no

[candid linden]

ok and something happened in whiteward right

that ruined everything

[keen narwhal]

ok im back

[near jasper]

probably not

[keen narwhal]

what was the question?

[near jasper]

they put silk into people

[keen narwhal]

yep for immortality

[near jasper]

for healing/immortality

[candid linden]

and then what

didnt something bad happen

[keen narwhal]

it made weird looking enimies

we can see them in their

[near jasper]

it was always bad

[keen narwhal]

some have silk coming out their back

[candid linden]

I heard silk got in the water

or something

[keen narwhal]

some have silk all over their face

[near jasper]

no

[candid linden]

dang

[keen narwhal]

wait it did

Unn showed me proof

[near jasper]

silk inside the citadel bugs got passed down through children

[keen narwhal]

in a doilogue

[candid linden]

why do the make the climb hard then and have the last judge

[keen narwhal]

with a caretaker

[candid linden]

oh and thats bad

[near jasper]

so only the sinless get in

[keen narwhal]

they saythe silk got in the air and the water

so yes GMS silk infected the water

[near jasper]

and the air

[keen narwhal]

yep