sk-lore

[keen narwhal]

anyways i shall stay with the statement of fayforn isnt a higherbeing

but they are just treated as such

due to having useful feathers

[near jasper]

They should scrap sea of sorrow for a styx game

[keen narwhal]

literally

[whole holly]

if she is one that creates coldshard that puts in being above all other category, she is physically above all others

[keen narwhal]

we play as styx and they leave the kingdom

to find a new mistress

[whole holly]

plus if she creates coldshard and is heart of frost she may be as powerful as unn

[keen narwhal]

wait

[foggy stratus]

Imo nothing puts Fayhorn as a Higher Being, but they certainly are a higher being(or a god by the 'strong fighter' definition)

[keen narwhal]

so fayforn can do soul stuff?

with ice/

[near jasper]

Idk

[keen narwhal]

i think they just have feathers

and everyone thinks they built differnt

[lone folio]

So she's not cold. Bugs in hollow knight arent exactly the same as they are in real life

[keen narwhal]

and are a higherbeing

[lone folio]

They follow different rules

[keen narwhal]

true

so i guess

fayforn aint a highbeing

they just got feathers

[whole holly]

plus Mister Mushroom converses with her, which he never does with regular beings

[keen narwhal]

and everyone thinks they are one becuase of feathers

[keen narwhal]

wait what?????

but also what if he is doing that becuase she is treated like a higherbeing????????????/

[near jasper]

Then how did he get a tablet built in pharloom

[near jasper]

If he doesnt appear to normal bugs

[whole holly]

idk, he engraved it or something, mushroom magic

[near jasper]

He engraved it on the air?

[whole holly]

it could be mushroom growth

[foggy stratus]

As stated, he simply readjusts.

[whole holly]

fungus material

[keen narwhal]

but @whole holly technically woudnt he just talk to fayforn becuase of fayforns status

meaing

fayforn isnt a higherbeing they just are treated that way

becuase of how useful feathers are?

[near jasper]

Or maybe he just wants to talk to fayforn

[keen narwhal]

true

[whole holly]

that is weirdest conclusion, he doesn't want feathers

[keen narwhal]

he just wants to talk to a giant birl look ing ahh thing

[keen narwhal]

no i mean

[whole holly]

it still signifies importance, he barely pays attention to us

[near jasper]

We see him talk to like 2 people before we can't really assume its only pale/higher beings he talks too

[near jasper]

Fayforn is important

[keen narwhal]

other bugs treat fayforn as a higerbeing becuase fayforn has feathers

[lone folio]

Fayforn is wise, thats why mister mushroom talks to her

[keen narwhal]

he is talkting to fayforn becuase fayforn is famous in the mountains

thats my theory

[whole holly]

that doesn't make sense either

[near jasper]

Fayforn has spore shrooms thats why mister mushroom talks to her

[whole holly]

that's weird and vague

[keen narwhal]

bruh

idk how to explain this more complicated

ok

fayforn is treated like a higher being

[near jasper]

How does fayforn understand mm if She doesnt have spore shroom and couldnt have been able to learn shroomish

[whole holly]

they are heart of the coldshards, which is unique because they store memories

[keen narwhal]

becuase they have feathers

[whole holly]

because she is higher being that can understand Mister Mushroom

[foggy stratus]

Is that said somewhere?

[near jasper]

How

[keen narwhal]

so your telling me fayfonr has ice powers???????

[lone folio]

Fayforn is the heart of frost not the heart of ice

[near jasper]

He doesnt speak pharloom common

[whole holly]

she is fell heart of frost, only frost is coldshard that stores memories, memories are linked to essence

[near jasper]

Unless shroomish and pharloomian are just different dialects

[near jasper]

Not the snow in the Area?

[whole holly]

what form does Frost materialize in? coldshard

[near jasper]

Thats frost

[keen narwhal]

wait i have never talked to shroomish

can you talk to him ingame?

[whole holly]

that's just snow

[near jasper]

Yes

[foggy stratus]

Ok but where is that said?

[keen narwhal]

does he speak normally or in gibberish

or shroomish

[foggy stratus]

Looks more like fluff tbh.

[keen narwhal]

to clarify

[near jasper]

Gibberish in hollow knight without spore shroom

Hornet understands him in silksong

[keen narwhal]

ok

ahhhh

[whole holly]

riddle tablet in passing of the age wish

[lone folio]

"fell heart of frost, who soares on high" is from the poetry stuff in the minister mushroom quest

[foggy stratus]

Ahhh, thanks.

[edgy nebula]

coldshard is distinct from just ice, i dont think fayforn controls the coldshard

[lone folio]

Wait minister mushroom 😭 darn you autocorrect

[near jasper]

Isnt frost And snow the same thing

[whole holly]

they have ice powers, mister mushroom literally visited her to talk about time

[near jasper]

/gen

[blissful harbor]

basically

[whole holly]

ice is never mentioned in silksong, or snow, only frost and coldshard

[keen narwhal]

wait so doesnt that count as evidence that only higher beings or beings who can gain spore shroom cant talk to him

so maybe he only talks to higher beings

and some exceptions

[blissful harbor]

he speaks shroomish, it just shows hornet can speak it

[keen narwhal]

which are those who find the way to talk shroomish

[near jasper]

He talks to the knight we just dont know how to translate without spore shroom

[foggy stratus]

Hornet learnt shroomish despite not being a Higher Being.

[edgy nebula]

it was added for flair to continue the poem i dont think it's important to her lore, like i said before coldshard is probably distinct aswell

[keen narwhal]

oh

ok

[near jasper]

Also how the fuck did fayforn learn shroomish

[edgy nebula]

like how normal fire and wispfire exist in the hk world

[keen narwhal]

so fayforn knows shroomish

[whole holly]

you can't be fell heart of frost without being connected to said frost

[keen narwhal]

so fayforn isnt a higher being

[whole holly]

they are distinguished

[keen narwhal]

thats debunked

[whole holly]

that isn't debunking it

[near jasper]

With a kingdom with like 50 shrooms total in the other side

[whole holly]

Fayforn still may be higher being but signs are subtle, when you guys are expecting it to be obvious

[edgy nebula]

who's to say ice doesnt exist in the hk world? youre just assuming it's talking about coldshard

[blissful harbor]

HBs are pretty obvious

it’s kinda hard to hide the fact youre a god with a tangible presence on the environment

[foggy stratus]

Typically a God is a fairly hard thing to miss.

[whole holly]

it is never mentioned unlike coldshard, which can be connected to frost

[limpid summit]

Fayforn doesn’t exist above all others

[near jasper]

Highers beings sometimes just emit constant light too

[keen narwhal]

i mean it debunks that shroomguy or whats his name doesnt only talk to higher beings

[whole holly]

fayforn gleams

[foggy stratus]

Maybe Fayforn is like a demi-Higher Being.

[keen narwhal]

he talks to beings who can speak to him

or he will just talk

[near jasper]

Fayforn is just a really big driftlin

[keen narwhal]

even if you dont understand

[blissful harbor]

true actually

[foggy stratus]

Middle Managment Being?

[whole holly]

before godhome people thought vespa was higher being, plus to this day unn and nightmare heart aren't explicitly stated to be higher beings

[whole holly]

she does, she is on mountain

[keen narwhal]

yo what if we had a boss fight with fayforn

[blissful harbor]

Unn and nightmare hsve pretty big feats which put them above other bugs, the definition of a HB

[keen narwhal]

they just throw ice at us

and sharp feathers

[near jasper]

So are most cristal peaks enemies

[whole holly]

same with fayforn, she is heart of coldshard/frost

[foggy stratus]

Unn dreamt all of Greenpath into being and Nightmare Heart split a chunk of the Dream Realm off. I dunno, seems pretty Godly to me.

[blissful harbor]

what has fayforn done but screech and throw some feathers

[edgy nebula]

just because it isnt mentioned doesnt mean it doesnt exist, where there's water and cold there's frost, it's probably just referring to the cold on mount fay

[keen narwhal]

yeah

[whole holly]

when what does being above all others means because radiance statue is above all others and she is higher being

[keen narwhal]

all they do is

[blissful harbor]

youre using circular logic with that cold shard bit, nothing really suggests she’s connected to them

[keen narwhal]

scream and dripp feathers to use

please Nika

they arnt a higherbeing

we are gonna be here all day bro

[whole holly]

only thing to connect to each other is frost and coldshard, but there is simply no proof of ice existing

[edgy nebula]

in fact, hornet's masks literally frost over when shes exposed in mount fay

[whole holly]

and she literally turns into coldshard in death

[edgy nebula]

her masks still freeze over, though

[whole holly]

there is physically nothing else to connect and you are arguing again logical deduction

[whole holly]

so? that's process of coldshard forming

[blissful harbor]

maybe the whole entire area covered in frost???

[whole holly]

frost/coldshard sure

[edgy nebula]

also assuming ice doesnt exist in hk because coldshard exists is simply put very stupid

[blissful harbor]

coldshard are a specific environment within the mountain, it’s not the whole thing

[foggy stratus]

Cold is a very real thing. Water is a very real thing. What happens when water gets cold enough? Ice! Trying to argue ice isn't real is frankly kidna silly.

[whole holly]

ice is unrelated to mt.fay and trying to bring it into place where coldshard already fills that role is sillier and stupider

[whole holly]

coldshard fits that role well

[whole holly]

in mount fay

[keen narwhal]

idk

[whole holly]

fayforn is linked to memories in that regard

[marble oasis]

coldshard is like a magnetite ice combo thing

[keen narwhal]

ican we overall agree fayforn inst a higher being and that maybe just maybe they are treated as a higherbeing

[foggy stratus]

Yes.

[keen narwhal]

becuase of how useful feathers are

[whole holly]

what?

[keen narwhal]

thank you

[foggy stratus]

There isn't really enough evidence to call her a Higher Being. Its like the Abyss Lifeblood Creature.

[whole holly]

"fayforn is treated as being above all others solely because how useful her feathers are"

[marble oasis]

She’s probably not a HB, at best she’s an Old Heart

[keen narwhal]

yes

[marble oasis]

I believe she could be a HB descendant like Hornet though

[whole holly]

evidence isn't going to conclude anything, we should rely on implication

[keen narwhal]

ok

[limpid summit]

IF Fayforn showed off any interesting powers she could POTENTIALLY be a higher being

[foggy stratus]

Ok. That's. I don't even know how to respond to that.

[keen narwhal]

and implications say fayforn is a fraud and isnt a higherbeing

[marble oasis]

If anyone cares to read https://docs.google.com/document/d/1-rv17XIkQztTaUFlMxB9ijscYrfqOhh8jg9peSAK4OA/edit?usp=drivesdk

[lone folio]

Design wise fayforn is nothing like a higher being. She has a bug like abdomen which none of the other higher beings share

[limpid summit]

Dude Zor is this tours

Are lore docs back

[whole holly]

pale king has bug like body

[keen narwhal]

really ive nevr noticed that

true

[edgy nebula]

we never see his body, only his cloak, and even then it isnt his original form

[limpid summit]

HBs don’t have design tropes

[foggy stratus]

After shedding his giant ass unbuglike form.

[limpid summit]

We don’t even have to go there to say she isn’t one

[marble oasis]

Yes

[limpid summit]

I’ll read it when I get home

I bet it’s peak

[keen narwhal]

but still fayforn ant a higherbeing ok evidence and including implications say they arnt

[whole holly]

Fayforn being fell heart of frost , means she has influence

[blissful harbor]

PK intentionally did that

[limpid summit]

Yes

[marble oasis]

There’s a silksong archives but there’s only two docs in there (one is mine (not this one))

[limpid summit]

So does green Prince

[blissful harbor]

i agree with Zor, she’s probably just an Old heart

[whole holly]

how can implication say they aren't

[keen narwhal]

yes he did that to resemble the people he wanted to worship him

[whole holly]

Old Heart isn't title

[foggy stratus]

Yes, but she still can be one.

[blissful harbor]

it is, it’s a power that passed down through the leaders of an area
the shamans tell us this

[keen narwhal]

becuase you said implication over evidence and overall everything says they arnt a higherbeing they just possibly have ice powers

[whole holly]

Fayforn's connection to Mt.Fay is metaphysical as Coldshard has mnemonic powers, Old Hearts are physical powers in tune with land

[blissful harbor]

it’s why the old hearts had enough power to act as a battery

[limpid summit]

Honestly like

We can guess to its source, though we'd believed it long gone from these lands.
You can dismiss this as gameplay but with the way the snails talk about GP’s heart I feel as if they marked all the relevant hearts that presently exist

So not including the moss druid stuff

I don’t think we can assign heart status to characters

[whole holly]

Ice Powers are literally what would make her higher being, plus she is metaphysically strong

[edgy nebula]

reading this doc, the bickering between the responder and the questioner is really fun

[limpid summit]

https://tenor.com/view/ishowspeed-watches-watches-speed-gif-11188016245055018266

[blissful harbor]

i mean Fayforn is literally treated like an old heart

[marble oasis]

*Essence powers is what would make her a Higher Being

[keen narwhal]

ok but just ice powers????????????/

[whole holly]

it is not a status, it is just Powerful Mortals, core of their community and so on

[keen narwhal]

i mean cant other beings do it

[limpid summit]

What

[marble oasis]

Thank you

[limpid summit]

It is a status it’s a specific type of power

It’s passed down

[whole holly]

well, to the point where she is above all others

[limpid summit]

Oh wait is it actually Socratic

Bro I just read the republic

This is going to be topical

[keen narwhal]

ahhhhhhhhhhh

why cant we agreeeeee

bro please

lets just vote or something

[whole holly]

old heart is not status, they are just said to be powerful mortals that are in tune with their lands rhythms

[blissful harbor]

democracy is dead

[keen narwhal]

all people who say fayforn inst a higher being put a chekc mark

[keen narwhal]

sadly true

nvm

sigh

[limpid summit]

Anyway saying Fayforn has ice powers is in and of itself a theory so it can’t be used to support another theory

[marble oasis]

Half

[keen narwhal]

why america

[whole holly]

do you realize what you just said

[keen narwhal]

yes

[edgy nebula]

the old hearts are the powers they bear, the successors is their status

[whole holly]

what does fell heart of frost could possibly mean

[limpid summit]

Fayforn

Duh

Could mean anything it lives on a snowy mountain

[whole holly]

yeah, but defining trait is that they are powerful mortals

[whole holly]

that's not meaning

[keen narwhal]

guys call me back when we have find the answer

[whole holly]

istg there is no deductive reasoning

[limpid summit]

“Fell heart of frost” could refer to the fact that the Fayforn is the apex creature of the frosty environment that is mount fay

[whole holly]

so you can agree with what's most popular

[keen narwhal]

bro

[foggy stratus]

Ok I have an interpretation of Mister Mushroom's tablet. "Fell heart of frost" could mean she used to be Old Heart status, but lost it somehow. Potentially due to being the only one really left in Mt. Fey. Or something the Weavers accidently did.

[keen narwhal]

i made my choice already

[whole holly]

it doesn't align with silksong terminology

[keen narwhal]

i already said my theory fayforn is just treated as a higher being

[limpid summit]

I do think she is personally a heart but you see how you can’t use this one line of dialogue to extrapolate her whole thing

[keen narwhal]

they arnt a higher being bro

[limpid summit]

It’s why WL growth powers is based on multiple things

[blissful harbor]

i’m pretty sure a heart has to die for thst to happen

[keen narwhal]

im not choosing whats popular i already have a theory

[limpid summit]

What is Silksong terminology

Mask and mask

[whole holly]

i know, but i seen you change your mind after different answers

[keen narwhal]

i just want this over with

[limpid summit]

Focus and focus

You can use heart in a different context than old heart

[edgy nebula]

yeah this is tuff

[keen narwhal]

no i havent ive only done it based on evidence im given

[limpid summit]

I think fell just means dangerous or enigmatic

Not fallen

[keen narwhal]

and overall my theory has stayed the same since the beginning

[limpid summit]

Fayforn kills Weavers

[lone folio]

Guys remember every driftlin you kill is as powerful as Unn

[keen narwhal]

fayforn is treated as a higherbeing

they arnt one

[whole holly]

there is no evidence to prove either, there are implications only

[whole holly]

i meant in another conversation

[keen narwhal]

when??????//

[keen narwhal]

i mightve said maybe

or true

but ive stayed the same

my opm havent changed

[whole holly]

"mosskin is as powerful as radiance" logic

[lone folio]

No because mosskin aren't the same species

Driftlin are the same kind of bug

[blissful harbor]

anyways chat fayforn is an old heart
she has a tribe of her own species under her like the other hearts, driftlins in her case, she has a connection to the environment, she serves as the “final encounter” of the area like the other hearts
and she’s important enough for Mr Mush to pay her a visit
i rest my case

[keen narwhal]

also if we go on implication my implication is they arnt a higher being

[whole holly]

"hornet is as powerful as absolute radiance"

[edgy nebula]

yeah

[whole holly]

that's not how implications work

[keen narwhal]

so your saying they arnt a higher being

[whole holly]

she is most likely deadly

[lone folio]

How so? She isn't the same bug as radiance

[blissful harbor]

no she’s not

[keen narwhal]

i was righttttttttt

thank you

now

[whole holly]

hornet is same species as wyrm

[blissful harbor]

i mean
she’s half

all wyrms are arguably HBs

[lone folio]

She's half a spider

[keen narwhal]

so how do implications work? im doing what you are doing your saying she is a higher being im saying overall she isnt

[whole holly]

so?? it is still great representation of your point

[whole holly]

implications are important because Fayforn is above Old Heart for Mister Mushroom to pay her a visit, her connection to Mt.Fay is metaphysical/magical rather than physical, she can't be old heart

[blissful harbor]

how does that make her above an old heart

she’s the only really alive old heart by the time he pays a visit

[whole holly]

only thing that is missing is mortality, we don't know whether or not she is mortal or immortal

[blissful harbor]

let’s go visit the corpses, i’m sure they’re lovely at conversation

[limpid summit]

Nika I’ll begin to listen if you confirm mister mushroom as a HB obviously his presence means something

[keen narwhal]

wait so that means she can just fly to talk o him she doesnt even need to be a higher being she can just flyyyyyyyyyyy

omg

i swear

[whole holly]

because Mister Mushroom only has spoken to Knight, Hornet, Fayforn, all of those are confirmed to be potential or partial higher being except fayforn, but it implies fayform might be one

[edgy nebula]

tk before voidheart isnt a hb

[whole holly]

he is meta-character, his existence is more important that higher beings but in different sense

[foggy stratus]

Hornet's at most half Higher Being.

[edgy nebula]

unless you can only interact with mister mushroom after you get vh i honestly forgot

also yeah hornet isnt a hb either

[blissful harbor]

the first two are not HBs, or TK doesn’t have to be for Mr mush to talk

[whole holly]

yeah but that's specification

[blissful harbor]

nvm i can’t read

[whole holly]

still, regardless knight is closer in proximity to higher being, he has higher being lineage

[lone folio]

He also talks to his imaginary friends

[whole holly]

that's outside of game, since he is meta-character

[blissful harbor]

seems more like he just talks to things that catch his interest, nothing points to it being some kind of “potential HB” thing

[whole holly]

she still has lineage, which is what i meant to say

[whole holly]

regular bugs don't catch his interest, important ones do

[foggy stratus]

So then who's to say Fayforn isn't a higher being decendant?

[blissful harbor]

old hearts aren’t really regular bugs

[whole holly]

she could be i mean

[blissful harbor]

idk why you assume it’s HB

[limpid summit]

Well he speaks at Ellina too that doesn’t matter

[whole holly]

they are, they are just, they are powerful mortals

[blissful harbor]

when it’s easier, and much more implied, to be an old heart thing

[whole holly]

Ellina? wtf?

[limpid summit]

They just don’t talk because she doesn’t understand him

He appears before her

[bronze gulch]

I was exploring ||the citadel and I found a spot with moss on it, why is there moss from moss grotto in the citadel||

[whole holly]

he might just be talking like that

[blissful harbor]

with power in them, it’s a physical thing
like actual power that’s passed down
it’s why they share an actual connection to their environment, like Verdania starting to come back after GP has been killed

[whole holly]

because Old Hearts don't have connection to metaphysical forces

[blissful harbor]

what metaphysical force is Fayforn connected to

[whole holly]

that's the environment manifesting heart of lands, because they require leader

[blissful harbor]

if you say memories with the coldshard i’m gonna jump

[blissful harbor]

what

[blissful harbor]

because again, this is a theory from you there is nothing suggesting this

[marble oasis]

They collect it

[limpid summit]

Nika this is still something that you made up

[whole holly]

"what metaphysical force is Radiance connected to, if you say dream with the essence i’m gonna jump"

[limpid summit]

It’s not a HB quality

[blissful harbor]

surely that’s the same

[keen narwhal]

wait they made it up??????????????

[keen narwhal]

thay dont have evidence

[blissful harbor]

surely

youre not actually gonns pretend that’s equivalent

[edgy nebula]

even if fayforn was connected to memories via coldshard i dont think that makes her a hb

[limpid summit]

@marble oasis zor what do you think

Is fayforn faster and can she freeze her opponents

[foggy stratus]

We know for a 100% undeniable fact Radiance is an essence Higher Being. All of your connections of Fayforn to coldshards are stretches.

[edgy nebula]

are snail shamans hbs cause they can access memories

[whole holly]

"Frost and Coldshard are totally separate"

[marble oasis]

Yes

[blissful harbor]

coldshard is ice yes, youre the one assuming Fayforn is a Hb connected to all ice

[whole holly]

they are outliers and atypical group

[blissful harbor]

when she’s never described to be such

[marble oasis]

But what I believe about all this has already been laid out quite plainly I just think bobbitt is the only one to have read it

Spread the word bobbitt

[whole holly]

she is heart of coldshard(mnemonic forces)

[blissful harbor]

bro

[edgy nebula]

what are you referring to

the doc you made?

[blissful harbor]

now youre literally just making thst up

[whole holly]

what, their power is physical, wdym

[marble oasis]

Yea

[edgy nebula]

cause if so yeah i just finished reading it

[blissful harbor]

she is a heart of frost, and the fros tos the literal frosted mountain she lives on

[whole holly]

you just said coldshard is frost

[limpid summit]

Connection to metaphysical forces is not a quality of higher beings

It just isn’t

[blissful harbor]

it’s ice, yes
because it is an ice mountain
you are saying because coldshard is ice, and coldshard can store memories, and Fayforn has a connection to ice, she is therefore a HB

[whole holly]

which ones of them isn't connected to metaphysical forces?

[limpid summit]

It’s sort of a common factor because to exist above all others they utilize some manner of metaphysical power

[blissful harbor]

do you not see how much of a stretch thst is or am i crazy

[keen narwhal]

ok so this si more evidence that my theory is right

[limpid summit]

But it’s not the actual reason

You’re cutting a few steps

[keen narwhal]

broooooooooooo

fayforn is not a higher being

they are treated as one though

[whole holly]

it is still quality if all of them having it, why are you conflating quality with reason?

[keen narwhal]

ok

ok

[blissful harbor]

anyways yes, essence manipulation is very common in HBs but it’s not like a defining trait

WL shows nothing of the sort besides like evading attunement

[marble oasis]

It would be like the Surgeons believing themselves Weavers because they use Silk

[limpid summit]

So true…

[blissful harbor]

and other creatures do it
like nosk, or shamans, or weavers (?)

[whole holly]

"Fayforn is only heart of regular ice, even though onlynamed ice in Mt.Fay is one that has mnemonic traits"

[limpid summit]

If you try to categorize Higher Beings there will always either be an exception to the rule or a case that falls within that category but obviously doesn’t exist above all others in a way TC intended

Higher beings exist above all others

[marble oasis]

It’s because of the magnetite

[edgy nebula]

except other higher beings

[whole holly]

they are limited though, unlike Fayforn with relative scale of entire Mt.Fay

[blissful harbor]

the entire area is ice bro
idk what you don’t understand about that
cold shar dis a specific kind of ice

[marble oasis]

Is Fayforn also god of magnetite

[whole holly]

not really? where is that stated?

[edgy nebula]

magnetite hb would be so tuff

[marble oasis]

“Fayforn’s range is not limited”

#CitadelChuckles

[whole holly]

point me to regular ice if you will?

[edgy nebula]

my favorite part of silksong was act 4 when fayforn plunged all of the hk world into an ice age

[blissful harbor]

look at the floor

[blissful harbor]

look at your health bar when you stand outside of heat

[whole holly]

that's literally coldshard forming when hornet dies

[keen narwhal]

but wait isnt coldshard just ice with magic properties

[limpid summit]

The floor is inert blue coldshard duh

[keen narwhal]

ice does exist

its just called coldshard

[marble oasis]

No

Coldshard is its own mineral

[whole holly]

me too, can't believe it froze Lord of Shades because she is that powerful, them Sherma got on Fayforn and flew to Land of Storms

[marble oasis]

we’re making fun of you man

[keen narwhal]

or coldshard is a type of ice

[whole holly]

it is most ice-like thing

[keen narwhal]

oh thank you good info

[limpid summit]

Journal says the servitors travel through caverns of ice or something

Pretty sure they don’t walk through coldshard

[edgy nebula]

yeah they mine and shit

[keen narwhal]

ahhhhhhh omg

[edgy nebula]

oh

[whole holly]

"fayforn is not a higher being even though she is connected to metaphysical coldshard and frost, , because her design doesn't match higher being and team cherry didn't whisper it to me in my sleep"

[limpid summit]

Stopped reading at being and smiled

[keen narwhal]

ok im gonna stick with my theory

[edgy nebula]

assuming fayforn is pale because of her down, assuming she's a pale hb would be really unfounded, she seems far weaker than other pale hbs

[keen narwhal]

fayforn isnt a higher being

[whole holly]

sk-lore people when stuff isn't outright said:" that's not confirmed, in fact it isn't possibe"

[keen narwhal]

they are treated as one

[whole holly]

why would she be pale

[limpid summit]

I don’t think mister mushroom conversing with fayforn is anything of note really one could guess he would talk to other hearts if they weren’t asleep

He doesn’t talk to Unn

[marble oasis]

Faydown is pale

No two ways about it

[edgy nebula]

her down gleams

[marble oasis]

Coldshard is not a constituent element of life itself like essence and soul man can we please get real

[edgy nebula]

mask maker also implies it has a rare and special power (im channeling the information i learnt from zorinuses doc)

[marble oasis]

Good

Good

[keen narwhal]

wait arnt pale beings higher beings????????

[edgy nebula]

you can be pale but not be a hb

[limpid summit]

Yeah Nika I feel like mask maker would mention if one of the dudes he was talking about lived next door

[keen narwhal]

ok thank you

[edgy nebula]

most notably hornet but palestag and also i think vessels?

[whole holly]

he can't swim in acid, but he does talk to important character that bring change, i will be honest, it doesn't have to do much with caste

[keen narwhal]

oh yeah hornet isnt a higher being

[limpid summit]

How do you know he can’t swim in acid

[keen narwhal]

but she is pale

[onyx jolt]

she is kinda

[edgy nebula]

not sure if vessels would be considered pale since the outer shell would be the only pale part about it and the vessel is technically the shade inside

[keen narwhal]

yeah she is more of a demigod

[onyx jolt]

pale comes from their parents

[limpid summit]

The actual kids of PK and WL would totally be pale

The vessels ehh

[keen narwhal]

but still it proves she isnt ashe isnt a HB

[limpid summit]

Up to interpretation

It’s void wearing pale clothes

[onyx jolt]

vessels are the same level of pale as hornet imo as they are basically half void

[keen narwhal]

yes

[marble oasis]

I count it

Their guts wouldn’t glow if they were still alive

Probably

But Hornet is Pale and she has that black body same as the Vessels

[whole holly]

word Pale really relies on confirmation, https://docs.google.com/document/d/1-rv17XIkQztTaUFlMxB9ijscYrfqOhh8jg9peSAK4OA/edit?tab=t.0 lore doc relies on perception which is subjective, Fayforn's coloration is off-white, not pale even

[edgy nebula]

the offwhite color comes from her outside feathers, not the down which glows white

[keen narwhal]

i mean Nika isnt wront there

oh

[marble oasis]

yeah i addressed that lol

[keen narwhal]

ok well she is pale then

[marble oasis]

wait

But, hold! There is something more about you... I've sliced the shells of countless filthy pilgrims! All those plain, greying innards! Yours are something else entirely!

Uh oh

[whole holly]

Pale is still a perception dependent still, Ethereal Wings look bright white

[onyx jolt]

pale beings are beings that have a pale light

[marble oasis]

And Soul powers

[limpid summit]

I don’t know if fayforn is pale but it doesn’t matter with regards to your greater point

Mask Maker talks about HBs and PBs

[edgy nebula]

who even says this ive never seen this dialogue in my life

yarnaby??

[marble oasis]

yea

[edgy nebula]

weird

[limpid summit]

I think I skipped through Yarnaby because cursed GMS annoyed me

So that’s new to me too

[stray knot]

knowing my dumbass i'm probably misinterpreting this, but why were the choir members carrying hornet's cage walking towards shellwood instead of the direction of the citadel? shellwood doesn't lead to the citadel so idk

[limpid summit]

Cursed GMS was so fun though it felt like a real fight

[onyx jolt]

im pretty sure they dont have to be white but all the ones we see are white

[limpid summit]

They were likely walking towards the grand gate maybe they had another way to the steps

[onyx jolt]

i think its just common but not a necessity

[edgy nebula]

either going through the bellways or were gonna take her to widow probably

[limpid summit]

Avoiding the carvers

Huh?

[marble oasis]

Mostly white

[limpid summit]

Bobbitt I’ve never heard that

How do you mean

[marble oasis]

GMS has black face and hands and Pale King probably has a little black body like the Vessels

[whole holly]

i don't think Fayforn is Pale, if light/glow/gleam is ever Pale it is always specified, Fayforns gleam is just soft off-white light

[edgy nebula]

actually i keep forgetting the bellways are just covered by bells and arent just straight tunnels

[near jasper]

The Bellveins are weird

[stray knot]

seems like going through shellwood would've taken much longer than just going there since the path they were on already put them in the entrance to blasted steps

[marble oasis]

Fallacy
Just because everything called Pale is Pale that doesn’t mean that things that aren’t called Pale can’t be Pale

[near jasper]

Like yeah theres 45 million bells inside every wall dont question it

[whole holly]

we have no reason to assume it is

[marble oasis]

There are elevators in the blasted steps shaft

[near jasper]

If fayforn is pale does that mean we kills hundreds of pale beings (driftlins) getting to her

[whole holly]

and it breaks established pattern too

[onyx jolt]

i dont think fayforn is pale because its referenced to be more than 1 of them

[marble oasis]

Yeah, but they get replaced every time so she’s got children to spare

[edgy nebula]

yeah but they were crossing a thin rock bridge on the way to shellwood

[marble oasis]

Wyrm:

[whole holly]

thank you

[keen narwhal]

oh thats true

[marble oasis]

Vessels:

Weavers:

[whole holly]

PK is specified as Pale Wyrm, White Wyrm, same isn't true for Fayforn

[onyx jolt]

the pale king is referenced to be the last wyrm

[keen narwhal]

but more evidence fayforn isnt a HB

[stray knot]

is there anything that says there can't be multiple of a pale being? like the wyrms idk

[near jasper]

Not pale beings tho?

[onyx jolt]

vessels are the same kind of pale as hornet is pale and weavers just arent even pale

[marble oasis]

Okay that one was because I needed a third but I stand by vessels

[onyx jolt]

the pale king was the last wyrm

[keen narwhal]

what if this is the case with pale beings or whatever

is GMS a pale bing?

[foggy stratus]

I don't think Vessels are Pale due to the Void in them.

[marble oasis]

Yes

[onyx jolt]

yes

[edgy nebula]

yes

[keen narwhal]

ok

[marble oasis]

The Shell is still pale

[stray knot]

well yeah but that does imply at one point there were a lot more wyrms that were also pale beings, so i don't see why that has to contradict

[onyx jolt]

the shell is pale

[limpid summit]

Bro mask maker literally calls fayforn a creature she is NOT a HB lmao

[near jasper]

There were more wyrms but why would there be more pale wyrms

[limpid summit]

There might be more pale Wyrms or PK is unique no way to know

[onyx jolt]

i think there were others but they werent pale, the only other wyrm referenced is the blackwyrm which is the colloseum wyrm, and it doesnt look pale

[whole holly]

she could be higher creature, in my opinion, not a higher being but still powerful in metaphysical sense, mister mushroom talks to her about memories, same mnemonic forces she is connected to

[foggy stratus]

So one would say Mask Maker's dialogue features the creature? A creature feature, perchance?

[near jasper]

Hallownest is called the pale wyrm's kingdom that seems like something youd need to differentiate if theres multiple pale wyrms

[onyx jolt]

i think the wyrms are higher beings but not all of them are pale higher beings

[keen narwhal]

ok so they arnt a higher being now?

[marble oasis]

This is why I say pale HB descendant at best

[whole holly]

we don't know, it isn't confirmed

[stray knot]

ah makes sense

[onyx jolt]

the fayforn is a higher being she is the creator of all life on mount fay

[near jasper]

Source?

[onyx jolt]

i think fayforn is a higher being as unn is a higher being

[onyx jolt]

the game

[marble oasis]

There’s only one type of life on mt fay and it’s her kids 😭

[near jasper]

Where

[limpid summit]

Yeah sure an old heart

[foggy stratus]

His source is that he made it the fuck up.

[edgy nebula]

mnemonids and mnemonords technically

[onyx jolt]

hunters journal im pretty sure

[marble oasis]

Driftlins

[limpid summit]

https://tenor.com/view/say-that-again-gif-968943876633031890

[near jasper]

For what

[whole holly]

i think she is really strong species, mnemonic forces are typical pale being traits

[edgy nebula]

still classified as a new creature in the hj

[whole holly]

she is heart of frost so...

[limpid summit]

Fayforn is very strong for sure

[keen narwhal]

also with the added possibilty of maybe fayforn is a demigod not a HB

[onyx jolt]

the only heart we KNOW is a higher being is nyleth crust king khann might be a higher being we dont know and karmelita isnt a higher being

[keen narwhal]

thats why they are pale

[marble oasis]

All the skarr are different entries

[limpid summit]

I mean weavers basically just tell other weavers to accept their fate

[onyx jolt]

pls stop asking these dumbass questions

[marble oasis]

Know???

[whole holly]

i think stronger than that

[marble oasis]

Where the fuck are you getting that

[edgy nebula]

old hearts are described as mortal power

[limpid summit]

Nyleth not a HB 💔💔💔

[edgy nebula]

nyleth prolly isnt a hb

[near jasper]

Bruh

[limpid summit]

None of the hearts are

[marble oasis]

KHANN???? KHANN might be a higher being????

[limpid summit]

Yeah what bobbitt said

[onyx jolt]

OMG I JUST REALIZED BY HB YOU MEAN HIGHER BEING NOT HOMEBOY LMAOOOO

[keen narwhal]

i think fayforn isnt a Hb instead maybe a demigod possibly and they just have worshippers that treat them like a HB

[limpid summit]

😭😭😭

[edgy nebula]

✌️😭 destroy this channel

[keen narwhal]

....

[onyx jolt]

theres some evidence that he might be responsible for the river

[keen narwhal]

bruh

[foggy stratus]

[limpid summit]

Seth is my HB

[marble oasis]

The river which dried up under his nose?

[whole holly]

exactly

[onyx jolt]

groal is a higher being tho

[edgy nebula]

what evidence would this be

[onyx jolt]

um i dunno

[limpid summit]

He can command coral

[keen narwhal]

finally something we agree over

[limpid summit]

Technically that’s like

[foggy stratus]

Fuck it, everyone and their mother is a higher being.

[limpid summit]

Living matter

You know what

Let’s think about this

[edgy nebula]

https://giphy.com/gifs/m7mdiq-efnjj-actually-genus-M7bKkjA4trvkFFxa8T

[whole holly]

Father of the Flame is stated to be a god

[onyx jolt]

https://tenor.com/view/iq-to-high-iq-to-high-dumbass-gif-8703840328342123411

[keen narwhal]

guys

[limpid summit]

Our brains

[near jasper]

Not mentioned once in any mount fay enemy journal entry

[keen narwhal]

ok here is my theory

[onyx jolt]

he might be or hes just a fuckin lantern

[keen narwhal]

fayforn isnt a HB

but instead is a demigod

[onyx jolt]

ok what is unc on about

[whole holly]

i don't know, but he is for a fact a god

[onyx jolt]

WHERE

caps lock mb

[whole holly]

hunter's journal entry

[edgy nebula]

totem and god, him being a totem instantly makes him not a hb

[keen narwhal]

and is treated like a HB becuase of their status

[edgy nebula]

and not a god

[whole holly]

totem and a god

[near jasper]

Release sos please our brains are starving

[whole holly]

he is both

[keen narwhal]

we need help bro

[whole holly]

you mean the feathers

[edgy nebula]

it isnt even a real creature it cant function as a god

[keen narwhal]

yes for feathers

[whole holly]

says who?

[onyx jolt]

oh

[keen narwhal]

and possibly becuase they have a HB for a parent

[whole holly]

because they are useful in cold, right?

[foggy stratus]

Is it God by our definition or God by Godseeker's definition?

[edgy nebula]

says me it's literally some wood nailed together with a dead old guy in the center

[keen narwhal]

YESSSSSSS

[limpid summit]

He’s a totem and god

He’s an idol

It’s not even the thing itself

[stray knot]

so how do nyleth karmelita and khann affect/control the environment like that without actually being higher beings? i know there's the "mortal power" thing but i'm not sure what that implies lol

[limpid summit]

It’s supposed to represent it

[keen narwhal]

???????? idol......

[whole holly]

and feathers ward of void?

[onyx jolt]

voltvyrm might be the 3rd closest thing to a wrym in silksong

[keen narwhal]

i didnt say that... but maybe....

[edgy nebula]

yeah this is my point, fotf isnt a god it's a totem representing a god

[near jasper]

Karmelitta sang to keep the skarr united

[onyx jolt]

karmelita doesnt she just sings

[whole holly]

probably similar to godseekers

[near jasper]

Bruh

[limpid summit]

It just seems like an innate aspect of some lands to manifest itself in bearers

[edgy nebula]

in hindsight idek why tc included god in the hj that's just misleading

[limpid summit]

We don’t really know

[foggy stratus]

Which means it's just a strong and or large bug.

[stray knot]

i thought she was keeping the far fields alive or something

[near jasper]

Khann is a bum

[whole holly]

shrue

[edgy nebula]

you can be a mortal bug and still have access to innate magic abilities

[keen narwhal]

i think they were used to ward off cold i mean that seems to be the only purpose

oh and also

if they did do that

[near jasper]

And nyleth is probably supplying some of the vegetation in shell wood with nutrients idk

[whole holly]

void is also cold too

[stray knot]

i mean yeah but that seems like a level comparable to unn who is a higher being so i'm very confused

[edgy nebula]

with khann the tower and the river were certainly a part of his abilities, but the rest likely came from the old power he inherited as a successor

[whole holly]

she is connected to everything in shellwood

[near jasper]

And keeping seth employed

[keen narwhal]

then coundt hornet just use the faydown cloak to not get harmed by void the way the flower did in act 3

[onyx jolt]

i wonder if theres any government systems other then anarchy and monarchy in pharloom and hallownest

[keen narwhal]

i mean possibly

[edgy nebula]

the level karm/khann are at is vague magic and simple to advanced terraforming, unn was able to create vegetation across half of hallownest and make children that walked from her dreams unto the physical plain

[whole holly]

flower wards off tendrils though, feathers ward off cold

[keen narwhal]

there are so many to discover

[onyx jolt]

crust king khann isnt a dictator somehow hes a king

even tho his achievement is legit called tyrant

[keen narwhal]

ok but how would they ward off void

[keen narwhal]

do they only ward off the cold aspect?

[whole holly]

prevent hornet from getting soaked

[edgy nebula]

you can be a king and still be a dictator/tyrant

[keen narwhal]

hmm true

[whole holly]

isn't that your theory?

[onyx jolt]

bro the void was gonna spaghettify hornet why are yall talking about sum cold warm shi

[marble oasis]

Are you texting from the fucking Roman Republic?

[keen narwhal]

im saying the feathers only ward off cold im asking you what do you thin is the connection to feathers and void but yes feathers are part of my tehory

[near jasper]

How does styx have a nest made entirely of silk and is just never noticed by gms

[whole holly]

socialism in Ancient Civilization, Burning Bugs too

[keen narwhal]

becuase it possibly happened after

[onyx jolt]

socialism isnt a government system

[keen narwhal]

she was sealed

[near jasper]

After what

[near jasper]

I meant noticed as in turned haunted

[marble oasis]

What does she care

[keen narwhal]

she was sealed in a ball like gojo with that dumb ahh cube

[whole holly]

it is economic system but government system would be libertarianism in that case

[keen narwhal]

bro they are so many systems to use

[onyx jolt]

ah

[whole holly]

i mean something adjacent to it, religion also influences the governance

[near jasper]

Idk what does she care about the shellwood flowers

[keen narwhal]

silksong uses religion as a way to get in to cities

[onyx jolt]

theocracy

[whole holly]

pretty much every system is that, in hk and ss

[keen narwhal]

overall i think any religion can work as a new silksong game if it exploits something

[onyx jolt]

pale king?

he just made people smart

[keen narwhal]

becuase then who ever we play as has a reason to stop who is in control

[stray knot]

https://tenor.com/view/celeste-hello-hello-chat-yolo-gif-6339744213739673224

[near jasper]

He had worshippers

And a donation shrine

[onyx jolt]

he never advertized a fake religion or a real religion he just acted like a good king

[keen narwhal]

yeah he did idk how he turned beetles from monkey acting things into what we see

thats kinda crazy

[onyx jolt]

i think its a wyrm trait

[keen narwhal]

dont most religions have that

[keen narwhal]

maybe

[near jasper]

Yes

[keen narwhal]

yeah i dont see a problem with donation shrines

[keen narwhal]

as long as they are used for good

[onyx jolt]

sure the pale king may have lied and done a few bad things but they were only to help his bugs

[onyx jolt]

cattttt

[stray knot]

ten billion dollar for the megachurches

[edgy nebula]

single bad thing afaik

[onyx jolt]

arent those just rec centers disguised as christian

[keen narwhal]

the only bad thing the pale king did was not take care of his kids and not let radiance have worshippers

[keen narwhal]

alllllllll haillllllll the catttttttttttttt

[edgy nebula]

second one wasnt his fault

[keen narwhal]

oh true but stilll he did nothing wrong

[onyx jolt]

worst thing was mistreating the vessels but that was only because he didnt know they had feelings, also partially on monomon as she was the kingdoms researcher and probably researched void.

[edgy nebula]

the moths forsook (is that the word?) radiance and turned to pk instead and then she got mad

[keen narwhal]

he just tried to save what he made a kingdom but failed

[onyx jolt]

he also said hallownest was the only kingdom but thats it ig

[near jasper]

He knew most had feelings

[edgy nebula]

probably because it was meant to be eternal

[near jasper]

Thats why they didnt get chosen

[onyx jolt]

i think he was just looking for the strongest

[foggy stratus]

Last and only*

[marble oasis]

That is the word

[keen narwhal]

yes and then he gave the one without emotions emotions through giving this child love sigh

[onyx jolt]

last is kinda true he is the last wyrm kingdom

[near jasper]

?

[edgy nebula]

aight cool

[keen narwhal]

imagine loving your kid is what gets your kingdom killed

[near jasper]

Evil gms be like:

[onyx jolt]

the strongest vessel, a theory ive seen is he made the path of pain to see which vessels could make it to the end and the final sequence is him with the last one

[edgy nebula]

the sad part is this wasnt even what made thk fail, the plan in of itself was flawed

[onyx jolt]

the pale king just wanted a child

[keen narwhal]

oh yeah

[near jasper]

Why would a vessel need to be physically strong

[foggy stratus]

Path of Pain only exists in the Dream Realm.

[near jasper]

Theyre not meant to even move

[limpid summit]

To fight off intruders who broke their chains

[keen narwhal]

having something truly hollow to trap a being wont work espieaclly if that thing is alive

[onyx jolt]

mentally strong because thats what path of pain does to you

[keen narwhal]

sigh

[limpid summit]

PK likely didn’t make the path of pain intentionally

[stray knot]

(i mean this jokingly obviously) zote would've been an amazing vessel to hold the radiance with his ego and shit lmao

[onyx jolt]

its a memory of the palace

[near jasper]

Zote isnt allowed dreaming

He physically cant be infected

[limpid summit]

First of all PV was the only vessel he brought up why would he make PV do PoP

[onyx jolt]

he canonically doesnt breathe so they could probably just let it chill in him

[near jasper]

Hes just that good

[onyx jolt]

wait how the FUCK did they get the radiance into the hollow knights mind

[keen narwhal]

man just imagine if radiance wasnt a B who hates just becuase they lose followers bro that kingdom could be totally normal but no radiance had to mess some shi up

[edgy nebula]

zote is the strongest character in the hk verse pk was too scared to ask him to be the vessel

[foggy stratus]

No it's the actual palace put into a Kingsmoulds mind.

[onyx jolt]

zote wouldve beat up pk

[near jasper]

It infected thk

[keen narwhal]

wait....................

[near jasper]

And got stuck

For 20 minutes

[keen narwhal]

he a fruad im sorry to tell the truth

[onyx jolt]

no?

[foggy stratus]

It is.

[onyx jolt]

wait yes

thatsd litterally what i said

[keen narwhal]

pale king would wipe all he needs is a chainsaw

[onyx jolt]

im too used to disagreeing with you

[foggy stratus]

You said it's a memory. But it's the actual physical palace put into the Dream Realm.

[near jasper]

Penitent, First of the First.
Guilty of the sin of apostasy.
Penance by constriction.
Absolution denied.

[keen narwhal]

zotes a fruad

[onyx jolt]

bro zote manifested himself into a god with pure rizz and broke into someone elses dream making him a similar level to if not stronger than the radiance

[keen narwhal]

bro i think zote was so full of himself

he made a god in his image

thats one of my theories

[onyx jolt]

its a memory of the palace before it got destroyed

[near jasper]

Zote is fully able to ignore the infection from his own raw will power

[onyx jolt]

also he got through the city of tears without getting wet at all

[foggy stratus]

No, it wasn't destroyed. Its the actual physical for real palace put into the Dream Realm.

[keen narwhal]

bro he is so full of himself his devotion to himself is keeping from infection

[onyx jolt]

zote backwards is creator of hallownest

[stray knot]

nothing implies that, he could've just gone indoors at multiple points and waited for his cloak to dry

[keen narwhal]

etoz the creator of hollow nest

[onyx jolt]

zote is just john hollow knights persona

[onyx jolt]

he wouldnt do that

[keen narwhal]

ok my zote theory

[near jasper]

Zote once tripped and from that crater the abyss was made

[stray knot]

what precept would forbid that

[onyx jolt]

precept 62: if your discord username in the hollow knight discord is "Enigma" with pronouns set as any you cant say anything bad about zote

[keen narwhal]

is zote is so full of himself he created a god a perfect version of himself and then he always survives anything that attacks him and any infection becuase he is so devoted to himslef thats my theory

any disagreements

[stray knot]

how in the fresh fuck is saying he would wait for his cloak to dry a negative thing

[onyx jolt]

you cant say that its part of precept 63

[keen narwhal]

i guess this might be true zote is really him

he can solo anyone

[foggy stratus]

In fact it strictly wasn't destroyed. A, no Palace rubble. And B, Lemm says there are no signs of conflict around the site it used to be. As if it vanished.

[keen narwhal]

bro what if zote got the chaos emeralds

why am i talking about sonic

[foggy stratus]

He'd implode. He is a being of pure order and as such cannot use items of chaos

[keen narwhal]

ah yes this is true

what about the emeralds of total order??????????

[foggy stratus]

He'd get jiggy wit it.

[keen narwhal]

your right

and in the process he would wipe the floor with any HB

which he can do alone but still

[near jasper]

Zote is so fast he outran his own reflection, insulted physics to its face, And still had time to circle the globe twice just to mock jet engines. He once raced a beam of light, lapped it, and returned with a tan from the future. Satelites cant track him, philosophers cant explain it and rumor has it time itself asked for his autograph before collapsing from exhaustion.

[foggy stratus]

The problem with being faster than light is that you can only live in darkness. Which, luckily for Zote, doesn't matter when you're brighter than the sun itself.

[keen narwhal]

he is more bright than the radiance

than the sun

then pure light

but we cant comprehend it

[foggy stratus]

Why tf does Lace not instantly burst into flames upon getting dunked in lava during her first fight?

[keen narwhal]

idk

maybe

its like hornet

she just takes lots of damage

also she is very athletic from what we know so

also hollow knight would instantly win a fight against

lace

akk they need to do is punch them and get them low then suck them into their body

no problem

[foggy stratus]

Yeah she isn't surviving for a second or third fight.

Cylone Slash+Lace=Loose silk threads.

[keen narwhal]

literally

[marble oasis]

Silk is fire resistant when tightly woven

[keen narwhal]

anyways it was great talking to you guys ill talk to yall later

bye

[candid linden]

I wish gms had more personality

[limpid summit]

Don’t we all

[edgy nebula]

howd the cogwork core fail to keep gms asleep?

[candid linden]

cause no one was singing anymore

or not enough I guess

[austere lake]

Am I the only one who thinks that people are misinterpreting SILKSONG’S true ending, and that the cannon ending of Hollow Knight isn’t the Godseeker one?

[eternal gazelle]

many people understand this in my experience

embrace the void and dream no more are equally likely

they have mutually exclusive iconography that are both referenced in the ending

[edgy nebula]

yeah theyre both meant to be implied in sotv

if it was etv the siblings wouldnt be there, if it was dnm the shade lord wouldnt be present, it's supposed to be ambiguous

[candid linden]

silk songs true ending is to be continued 💔

[austere lake]

I personally think Dream No More is the canon ending of Hollow Knight, just because it feels much more narratively satisfying

[candid linden]

is dream no more just radiance?

[austere lake]

Yes, and Embrace the Void is the pantheon one

[candid linden]

yeah why would embrace the void be cannon

its a dlc even

[austere lake]

Because the Shade Lord appears, although I think that doesn’t prove it

[eternal gazelle]

EtV can be canon because it results in the knight returning to the void

[austere lake]

My personal interpretation of Silksong’s ending is that when Shade Lord appears in screen, it’s not because the night just transforms into it for a single second, it’s because Hornet imagines the Shade Lord out of her fear of the void. When the Shade Lord return to the form of the knight, it’s meant to symbolize Hornet realizing that she isn’t seeing the void, but rather her sibling, after so long. Hornet gives up after this because she knows that the Knight will not kill her, and that she is safe.

[eternal gazelle]

I think she's recognizing things that either have happened or had the potential to happen

[austere lake]

Same.

[austere lake]

Although ETV can still be canon, I just feel like it takes away a lot of the narrative significance of the battle between the Knight and the Hollow Knight, and them joining together to kill the Radiance at the end.

[eternal gazelle]

that's fair, but that narrative isn't really relevant to silksong

(although THK wasn't really fighting the knight in the first place)

[tawdry flare]

TRUE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[glacial warren]

Might have inherited a bit of Father’s foresight?

[trim flame]

(dont spoil) canonically hornet can use all 3 (as far as i have theres 3) silk skills at once in hk so why cant we in sk

[glacial warren]

Hornet mentioned it herself to the Chapel Maid: She was vastly weakened due to being held in the Rune Cage over prolonged time on the trip to Pharloom, so she’s been depleted of much of her power.

[fierce glade]

I had a question

When you revisit the Mask Maker in Mount Fay, he says, "A fine face, yours. Not of my work. Not of this kingdom's craft. Not now, at least. But the deeper form. Distant relationship. Some form of Pharloom and our old, legged stewards. Now! To work. To work! The masks are needed."
It certainly looks as though the Ancient Civilization existed in the Pharloom Abyss as well, because there are some design similarities. The lore tablets down there also look similar to the ones we see in Hallownest. So maybe those are the "old stewards" and "distant relationship" the Mask Maker is referring to?

I might be reaching, but who knows

[dire lynx]

the legged stewards are probably just the weavers

since they are spiders and so more leggy than a typical bug

[fierce glade]

True, but he also says "not of this kingdom's craft", but since the Weavers originated in Pharloom, that wouldn't make much sense

[midnight reef]

Hornet didn't originate in Pharloom though

[pastel remnant]

what are the suggestions of who the next main character would be

[midnight reef]

We'll see once Team Cherry releases a new trailer

If they do

Team Cherry after Silksong probably isn't doing another game in the Hollow Knight series for awhile

[craggy smelt]

As long as it's not Lace

[dire lynx]

shes still part wyrm tho

[dire lynx]

The Hollow Knight

[pastel remnant]

the most realistic prediction

as they said they want to work on games out of hk universe

[marble oasis]

She has a Wyrmspawn face

[wet walrus]

PV is THK prime

[sullen prism]

It'll probably be a similar vibe tho

If it's another metroidvania

[craggy smelt]

Hollow Knight's gonna come back for City of Steel. Calling it here.

It would be weird to have them as a playable character though

they're too big

[wet walrus]

I believe they can make an entire different gameplay while keeping their unique aspect

THK imo has one of the highest possibility of appearing in next game

Though I don't want him to be limited to Hallownest

[craggy smelt]

different genres in this world might be interesting... something like classic zeldas or similar

RTS kingdom builder, let TC revitalize that genre next

[umbral flower]

why is lace a stick but for some reason the lower you get from her torso it gets less skinny, then the legs are sticks too

[sullen prism]

How would his game work tho? Most of his life was being trained and then sealed

[wet walrus]

Because they are bugs. This isn't only the case with lace only who is shaped as a child, a bug child to be precise. Her shape at the same time is meant to be in grand mother silk's image.
Oro, Mato and Sheo despite their significant stature have short arms and tiny quads.
Grimm and THK are literal sticks

[umbral flower]

You got a point

[craggy smelt]

her design is meant to evoke like a classic fencer's outfit
with the big poofy pants

[wet walrus]

She is like her mother but a knight

[wet walrus]

In EtV THK reemerges. His life is almost completely drained and is in a mutilated weakened state. Perfect sense for starting character.

[sullen prism]

I guess, but I think I'd like a quirrel or tiso game more

[wet walrus]

Quirrel most definitely died. Tiso is already dead.

[sullen prism]

Prequel

I know they're dead

[craggy smelt]

boo

[wet walrus]

I don't know man. HK already gives us insight on the entire history of Hallownest including Ancient bugs and pre-Hallownest era

No need for prequel

[sullen prism]

But that's just for hallownest

Pharloom showed us that there are more kingdoms to explore

[craggy smelt]

if/when we return to holloworld, I'd rather it be a game that follows a completely new set of characters
same world, same concepts, but a kingdom/land far removed from any familiar regions

[wet walrus]

They are falling one by one at this point.
Kingdoms built by other wyrms most likely also fell already
The kingdom that went hand to hand from gms to weavers to conductors in a state of apocalypse.

[sullen prism]

I'd like a subvert of expectations with a Kingdom that was always evil and the protagonist causes it's downfall

[craggy smelt]

nice

[wet walrus]

I mean Pharloom was kind of like that
Gms wasn't entirely evil but was a victim of her own exploitative nature
Weavers who usurp her only makes things worse
And conductors uhhh we don't talk about what they do

[sullen prism]

Pharloom didn't fall but it was already falling

[wet walrus]

True unlike Hallownest Pharloom is only in state of crisis. And unlike hallownest it has enough bugs to rebuild

Though we don't know what Hornet aims after SotV. But I doubt she has any interests in becoming a ruler and would rather travel more ruined kingdoms

[edgy nebula]

living in pharloom at any timeframe would be terrible

[sullen prism]

Pharloom was pure capitalism

[edgy nebula]

youve got a tyrant that ruled half of the kingdom, then youve got an angry god who'll probably strike you down at any misdemeanor, then the weavers where if youre a common bug youll be brainwashed until you enter religious psychosis, then you have the conductors enslaving pilgrims via the underworks

genuinely terrible place

oh yeah weavers also harnessed pilgrim's souls to make silkflies too that's another way theyre evil

[wet walrus]

Conducts are the worst not because of their actions are more evil but rather because gms is evil and exploitative because of her nature and weavers as a result inherited it after gms raises them.

I think she is like nightmares heart. It is an evil entity that trapped its creations into an eternal loop forcing them to feed it. Only difference is gms failed to sustain herself via her subjects not once but twice.

[vague onyx]

hi

[graceful grail]

I think gms was first Very Bad, then she initiated the Pilgrimage Religion and tried looking nice.

Just based on what conductor Romino says. -
They see your beauty, so frail and fine,
They see your peace, woven of faith and toil,
They forget your heart, bound in slumber and servitude,
When you wake they shall see your truth,
A beast's nature bare to all.

[trail canopy]

If GMS made the Weavers to not have kids or whatever how did Herrah have Hornet

[wet walrus]

Hornets mother wasn't the true beast afterall

[craggy smelt]

it's said to be difficult for weavers to conceive children, but not impossible

[graceful grail]

When hornet is talking to Eva (who was the first attempt at overcoming the weaver hardness to reproduce) Hornet said that Herra was able to “Overcome its Limits”

Herra probably had some sort of body modification to be able to reproduce.

Which is prob why she is so chonk

[sullen prism]

Pale King was extremely fertile

[trail canopy]

These are all perfect answers

[graceful grail]

Hmm

[wet walrus]

You are forgetting something

"behind every great man is a woman rolling her eyes"

[sullen prism]

I don't get it

[wet walrus]

White lady

[sullen prism]

yeah they made trillions

[knotty tartan]

||if the white lady's utmost desire is to breed, would she have cheated on pale king||

[ornate pollen]

what is the arcane egg ?

[dire lynx]

its an object used to store information, used by the ancient civilisation

[near jasper]

The Pilgrim religion was from the weavers, why would anyone climb to the citadel if it wasnt even built yet

[fading shard]

no

she's at most loyal to him

they're a cute couple

[knotty tartan]

thanks, but this is the silksong channel, just so you know

[fading shard]

you're the one asking this in the silksong channel?

[knotty tartan]

yes, i only just realized after sending the message

[pastel remnant]

she wont let you hit

[fading shard]

yeah she's only interested to her dear husbando

[pastel remnant]

and her husband cheating on her with spider

[fading shard]

........it's not cheating

Wdym by cheating

it's literally stated he was given permission to do so T_T

both the white lady and pale king agreed to the deal

[pastel remnant]

oh

then

idk

[fading shard]

nowhere does she speak negatively of him in fact she only praises the guy

and every other character mentions them as a cute item

then anything toxic

[primal terrace]

Almost every flea we rescue are infants and babies, the giant flea just ate too much and became fat and the fleas who are old can talk and have names

[dire lynx]

the big flea was probably selectivley bred to be large like the other big critters in the memorium

[primal terrace]

What happened to the smaller fleas

https://tenor.com/view/silksong-hollow-knight-hornet-shaw-hollow-knight-silksong-gif-13205433055363544945

[deft wagon]

Are the lore tablets found in the Ruined Chapel describing how the Snail Shamans’ spells are created, or are they describing something else?

[dire lynx]

nothing, they are normal

[primal terrace]

.

[foggy stratus]

Doesn't seem to be spells. Maybe something related to Soul harvesting?

[pale narwhal]

i think spell recipes is the most common theory

[marble oasis]

i doubt he was bred, probably force fed

[graceful grail]

There diddnt need to be a building there nessesarily.

Its Her peace She Wove. Her Religion she Spun.

[near jasper]

Why would she make the pilgrim religion

[limpid summit]

There’s no indication that she made regular bugs worship her

The only bugs besides the weavers she interacted with (Karak, Skarr) she fought

[frosty gate]

What's the topic today?

[limpid summit]

Ok wait actually

Let’s talk about this

“Alone against the pale light” from Khann and “gave them the strength to resist the pale monarch’s will”

These are pre Citadel right

It doesn’t make sense for Karm to actually be an Elderbug type character where she’s withering despite being super young in comparison

[low oracle]

When exactly did she fight the Skarr?
From my understanding GMS had conflicts with the Karak, pushing their territory back to make room for her own. Their ultimate defeat however came later, through the Weavers redirecting their water to the high halls and drying them out.
The Skarr on the other hand only ever had to deal with the haunting from my knowledge, where Karmelita's singing brought resistance to it.

[limpid summit]

“In her youth, her voice united the wild tribes”

Unless she was young in the haunting season (making her ages younger than GP) that’s a bit weird

Her will also seems more like an attribution to her active control

The same way silken sight in the Cindril harp refers to her being awake

[edgy nebula]

the karm dialogue has been weird to me cause why would gms even care about the skarr before the haunting? she was busy with the weavers and seemed pretty disconnected from the rest of the world

[limpid summit]

Well far fields is huge

Skarr might have even been more spread out in the past

Considering they were split into tribes

Could have been that karm’s unity presented a risk to her

[low oracle]

Age is inconsistent among species that it is basically no measure for almost anything.
Nyleth and the Citadel (not confirmed wether pre-Weavers or not, likely yes) worked together, giving each other protection. However with the haunting, the bugs took Nyleth's shrine as a target of destruction, as seen by the countless remains that Seth left them in. Hence Nyleth already existed before GMS.
Khan definitely also existed around that same time, I believe there isn't even anything other to say about him.

Now here are the interesting ones:
Karmelita couldn't have been old during the haunting, which also happened for a longer time. So either she stayed young for a very long time (pre-GMS — haunting) or she is far younger than Khan and Nyleth.

The Green Prince is even more confusing. Firstly, he already is in his prime age, which means that he either ages in centuries instead of years, or that he's just the youngest.
Verdania could have been destroyed by two things. Either through the direct actions of the Citadel (Conductor) or through his sorrow, which again was caused by the citadel (Conductor). Assuming Verdania is an ancient kingdom (which makes most sense, the old hearts can change), the Green Prince inherited his position of power. Since Verdania would have been destroyed in the same time period either way, Green Prince would definitely be younger than:
-First Sinner, Herrah, Widow
-GMS (arrival)
-Other old hearts
-Old Penitent
-possibly Hornet, Lace and Phantom